Conservatives Offer Unqualified Praise for Pentagon Propaganda Operations
Conservatives Offer Unqualified Praise for Pentagon Propaganda Operations
The Pentagon’s extensive covert propaganda operations in Iraq have made a mockery of President Bush’s desire to turn Iraq into “an inspiring example to reformers in the region.” They have also “sparked a backlash among some senior military officers in Iraq and at the Pentagon who argue that attempts to subvert the news media could destroy the U.S. military’s credibility in other nations and with the American public.”
Yet conservative pundits and bloggers could hardly be more pleased. They have offered virtually unqualified praise for the propaganda efforts.
National Review’s Stephen Spruiell:
[The propaganda efforts] wouldn’t undercut the trust of the Iraqi people if papers like the LA Times weren’t blowing their cover. We need more operations like this in Iraq, and more respect for their classified nature.
So we’re spinning the Iraqi press by planting propaganda in its pages? BFD [Big f***ing deal]. … We’re adjusting to war in a new media universe. We haven’t adjusted swiftly enough.
If you toss away the myth that news and reporting is some sacred, undefilable calling, this story becomes a non-starter. When I look at the front page of my local paper, most of the stories were not written by their employees. Newspapers use stories from AP or Reuters all the time. Providing content to newspapers is a well-established business.
Smart move, given that the Iraq Campaign is one small part of the Terror War – in which the media is the arm of decision. If you don’t manage information, you lose. … Propaganda is important in any war, but it’s vital in a media war.
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Propaganda is only immoral, not illegal.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:09 pmOh sure!! forget about the truth and integrity of journalism! Just give’em what they gotta hear!
December 1st, 2005 at 5:10 pmBFD, in this instance, should stand for Bad For Democracy…
December 1st, 2005 at 5:10 pmIt is too bad that they believe their own propaganda.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:10 pmTheir hypocrisy is of Legendary proportions, I have never seen such savalic density. Its OK to LIE and Mislead not just the IRAQIS, confusing them, But also the American People, confusing them as well. With Taxpayer Money.
Cmon already give up the Ghost. -Aj
December 1st, 2005 at 5:11 pmThese guys must be praying that neither the house nor senate changes hands in 2006.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:17 pmthey live by the lie ,they’ll die by the lie…
December 1st, 2005 at 5:20 pmJust for reference, here’s what our Defense Secretary has had to say about free press:
Last Tuesday
April 2004
May 2004
That last one was in response to the media coverage of the release of the Abu Ghraib prison abuse photos.
Read more at News Corpse
December 1st, 2005 at 5:21 pmPravda on the Euphrates and the Tigris, comrades. Welcome to the new Evil Empire, same as the old Evil Empire.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:22 pmPropaganda in the U.S. and other established democracies is certainly a problem and would be wrong. But, in the context of Iraq, the only thing wrong with this is that they got caught or that they didn’t do this in a smarter way. Sorry.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:22 pmProviding biased news reports may not be illegal, but then when Iraqi press reports are taughted showing our success there and we are supplying the information, it makes it hard to believe what is true or not.
Any and every news agency uses wire services (AP, Reuters, Knight-Ridder, etc) there is just too much going on for each media outlet to be every where – all the time. But, they are credited as sources.
Having a degree in PR I understand the importance of having favorable news placments, and most good news you read is the direct result of someone trying to get that info out to the public. But lies cannot be a part of this. The media outlets have a reputation to uphold and if they are just regurgitating misleading accounts then new outlets will come up with the truth. (But then we’ll try to bomb ‘em like Al Jazerra). To act as reporters and with first hand knowledge while simply pushing fluff pieces is unethical, dishonest, and exactly what I expect from anyone connected to this administration.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:23 pmWell, of course, all that the LA Times story proved is that BushCo is now taking exactly the same approach in the Iraqi press that they’ve been taking in the US press for about 6 years now… Lies, propaganda, more lies, spin, plausible deniability…
Oh yeah — and paying fake “journalists” to boot. Brings to mind Armstrong Williams (US Dept. Education), Dave Smith (USDA), Judith Miller (BushCo War Author), Bob Woodward (faux “investigative reporter”)…
The difference: we’ve been fed this crap for so long, it’s going over the heads of many Americans. The Iraqi people are just now getting used to it. Somebody save them — QUICK.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:23 pmWell it’s finally happened. These so called “conservatives” are no longer popular with “top uniformed US military commanders.” Blowback, and not a moment too soon. Who supports the troops, again? The American people do and the American people don’t support the Pentagon or this administration. The American people have had it with conservatives in general and Republicans in particular.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:33 pmIf anyone paused for a moment to study history they would find that our forefathers also engaged in this outrageous behavior.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:36 pmthirteen comments and no trolls!
December 1st, 2005 at 5:37 pmPropaganda is the only method the konservatives have ever used to shape, form, spin public opinion.
That konservatives love the use of propaganda in Iraq only underscores the obvious. They are all perception, no reality.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:40 pmPropoganda is a tool of dictators and despots. It is against all democratic principles and cannot exist in a truly free environment. These are facts, not opinion. If you do not believe me then stop by your local institution of higher learning and ask any accredited source in their poly-sci or history departments.
Now, to accept it is irresponsible. To make excuses for it is traitorous. And, to deliver it is (sorry #1, it is illegal) criminal. Anyone who condones it has already forfeited their freedoms.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:43 pmThe only way to hold our leaders to the tasks of true democracy is to document their lies and propaganda. Nothing may be done while they are in power, but the evidence must be preserved for when they are sent packing. Then perhaps there will be a true accounting of their Macchiavellian schemes and lies.
Right wingers can call us liars and worse, at the tops of their lungs for as loud as they like. Sooner or later they’ll put up or shut up. When the evidence is laid out we will all come to see the first decade of this century as an orgy of right wing perfidy, greed, and hypocrisy.
I grew up in the 80’s wondering how anyone could have possibly believed in Nixon. I don’t wonder that anymore – I’m living in it, now, with his royal shrubster. Some day children will ask us, “how could you all have been fooled by this guy?” and “He seems retarded and he can barely read… he laughs at weird times… there’s somthing weird in his eyes… he seems so crazy… isn’t it kind of obvious?”
O the shame! O the embarassment!
O the wisdon of children!
Good night America! I love you more than you’ll ever know (unless you ask)!
December 1st, 2005 at 5:43 pmThanks Nico, this post gives real insight to how these people think. It’s not against the rules if we’re winning, and if god is on our side! *gag*
December 1st, 2005 at 5:45 pmOr even if we’re not winning. *oops*
December 1st, 2005 at 5:46 pmThey are seeing the short term instead of the long view. Short term, they think it’s great to “advertise the good news” about the war happening in the backyards of the readers. They fail to see the long term deleterious effects of further debasement of American credibility and integrity.
December 1st, 2005 at 6:01 pmOur own media should be hopping mad about this, as it demonstrates the contempt for the press held by this administration.
December 1st, 2005 at 6:02 pmStephen Spruielle from NATIONAL REVIEW seems to find only one problem with secretly using U.S. taxpayer money to buy favorable quagmire-coverage in the Iraqi press: the L.A. Times “blew their cover”.
Hey, just send (Talon News ace reporter) Jeff Guckert on a double-super-secret background mission to pay off the L.A. Times for keeping this stuff quiet. Jeff could team up with blog-star Andrew Sullivan and Mr. NO-dollar-left-behind, Armstrong Williams!
December 1st, 2005 at 6:07 pmfool some of the people all of the time, fool all of the people some of the time… you CAN fool all of the people all of the time… but only for so long
a ship of fools?… no… these boneheads are just plain dorks.
December 1st, 2005 at 6:09 pmActually the line of of the Repugs being corrupt totalitarians like the old Soviets is an interesting one: They pump out misinformation. They disappear people into gulags, they’re corrupt and make their deals through back channels (Abramoff, etc.), they want one party rule and exclude outsiders from decisionmaking, they pass laws to allow spying on their own citizens. If science proves something ideology trumps reality every time. They appoint people for their ideological loyalty, not competence– the list goes on and on and on. The Bushies are Soviet apparachiks, not American patriots.
December 1st, 2005 at 6:13 pmJust what you’d expect from friends of the Potemkin President.
December 1st, 2005 at 6:18 pm#25,
You have that just right.
December 1st, 2005 at 6:19 pmThe secret summary is that they really
don’t want democracy in THIS country,
they want fascism – as long as they are in control.
As for the whack-job pundits, well they are
so used to propaganda as a way of life that they
REALLY don’t understand why anyone would have a
problem with it.
The entire right-wing program requires tricking
people into accepting things the don’t believe in.
How do you do that? Deceit and propaganda!
That is what Rove is good at.
If truth and facts are against you, dishonesty is the only tool in the box. Well, that and a good smear job.
December 1st, 2005 at 6:31 pmPat Buchanan made similar comments on Chris Matthews tonight. They should be added to the list.
Sure, we’ve spread messages and propaganda in previous wars. The difference here — or maybe it’s not — is that, just like when Judy Miller was fed and printed WMD stories and the White House used them as proof that WMDs existed in Iraq, the administration is now feeding and printing favorable articles in Iraq and then they’re using them to attempt to prove the point that the war is going well to U.S. citizens.
December 1st, 2005 at 6:40 pmWow – another shining example of “don’t do as I do, do as I say”.
Here’s another scary thing, George and the ‘group’ lapped up all the untruthful ‘propaganda’ that was pumped to them about what Suddam had and now look where it’s gotten us! Problem is, people tend to believe the lies when they think/believe it’s coming from someone/something of integrity.
Now Bush can’t say, “we misled them by telling them the truth!” because he doesn’t know the freaking difference between the truth and the lies!
December 1st, 2005 at 6:42 pmThe problem with intelligent design: you need intelligence!
December 1st, 2005 at 6:43 pmDo you suppose Andrew Sullivan et al would advocate the this?
“How are you, GI Joe? It seems to me that most of you are poorly informed about the going of the war, to say nothing about a correct explanation of your presence over here. Nothing is more confused than to be ordered into a war to die or to be maimed for life without the faintest idea of what’s going on.” (Hanoi Hannah, 16 June 1967)
December 1st, 2005 at 6:46 pmMaybe that’s where Scottie is, writing ‘positive’ propaganda in Iraq. “It doesn’t hurt if you use this…I prefer the warming K-Y myself”!
December 1st, 2005 at 6:48 pmSeems like some of our coalition of the willing have seen the propaganda and want out.
“…Two of America’s allies in Iraq are withdrawing forces this month and a half-dozen others are debating possible pullouts or reductions, increasing pressure on Washington as calls mount to bring home U.S. troops.
Bulgaria and Ukraine will begin withdrawing their combined 1,250 troops by mid-December. If Australia, Britain, Italy, Japan, Poland and South Korea reduce or recall their personnel, more than half of the non-American forces in Iraq could be gone by next summer…”
[from http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051201/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_crumbling_coalition_1;_ylt=AqgItofpeU3PLkP0QkfrQk1X6GMA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl ]
December 1st, 2005 at 6:51 pm#30,
“Wow – another shining example of “don’t do as I do, do as I sayâ€.
December 1st, 2005 at 6:53 pmExcept that this is ALL they do. To our allies, to
the American people, to the American press, to Congress.
Everyone only gets propaganda from this bunch.
It’s OK to lie as long as you don’t get caught, right?
December 1st, 2005 at 6:56 pmdammit scotty, the ship is under fire!
December 1st, 2005 at 7:06 pmFire Back!
hury up scotty, fix the damm thing!
those damm klingons, er, i mean, er, embedded reporters.
December 1st, 2005 at 7:08 pmIs it true that Bush is going around, flippin people the Bird?
December 1st, 2005 at 7:10 pmwell then, Maybe someone ought to flip”The Bird” right back At Him!
Did I read that right? Praise for propoganda? I think the truth is much better. The debate over the war, and now the authorization of going to war, has trickled down into a he said she said nasty debate. Both sides are attacking the others stance and opinion so much that I feel like it’s an election year once again. Regardless of who said this, and who agreed to that, we are in the position we are in. This debate is supposed to be about establishing a purpose for our continued presence in Iraq and establishing a sound criterion for our victory\exit strategy.
December 1st, 2005 at 7:14 pmHowever, it now appears that some politicians have turned this into a votes grab by trying to state their opinion, and stance, on the merits of the war, and their pretense for agreeing to go to war.
Raymond B
http://www.voteswagon.com
FINALLY we are getting out some good news!!!! I didn’t see where anyone MADE UP positive stories – but just the thought of anything POSITIVE being told to the citizens of Iraq must really upset the progs. HOORAY!!!! I don’t refer to you whiners as Think Pessimism for nothing!!
December 1st, 2005 at 7:23 pmAlthough I disagree with Sullivan that propaganda is no “BFD”, I agree with his broader point that the real problem is that the Iraqis have access to legitimate information, making the American purchase of conveniently slanted information a further waste of money (100 million?) and a further example of our lack of credibility in the region and throughout the world.
The reality is that the use of propaganda is and always has been an effective way to influence the thoughts and actions of a wartime enemy. The problem here seems to be that the Iraqi public is not our enemy.
December 1st, 2005 at 7:25 pmYou are NOT living under a foreign occupation.
We are NOT awarding 85% of your oil production contracts to US and British private petro companies.
There is NO incipient civil war.
After the Dec. 15 elections, you will be a sovereign republic.
We will leave Iraq the moment you ask us to.
You don’t need to see any papers.
These aren’t the ‘droids you’re looking for.
Move along.
December 1st, 2005 at 7:30 pmI’m confident that the Iraqi people see right thru this administation. They aren’t stupid like the republicans try to make them out to be.
Ask any Iraqi, 80% of them know Bushie is a liar and a criminal.
December 1st, 2005 at 7:37 pmSo now this ‘war’ is all about spreading freedom, democracy and lies.
Just when you think that this administration can’t get any more immoral…
December 1st, 2005 at 7:39 pmOn that note. I spoke with a woman from Argentina yesterday. She wants us to know that her people do not hate us, they hate Bushie.
I assured her that we already understood that people in other countries don’t hate American’s, they hate Bushie.
Anyway, she said she wanted us to know that Argentinians like American’s but hate Bushie.
December 1st, 2005 at 7:39 pmMighty Aphrodite, If the news were really that good it would cost a lot less. don’t you think?
December 1st, 2005 at 7:40 pmAh, more entertainment, too bad this is a virtual argument, this would be a lot more fun to watch in a bar. The “discussion” would have the same utility: none. But it would be more entertaining.
December 1st, 2005 at 7:41 pmSomeday, there will be media for actual debate and discussion but these left wing boards aren’t it and freeper land permits no debate at all,only echoes. So I guess I’ll drop by for some laughs at the infantile gainsaying that is all that’s ever here.
And the Lincoln Group receives millions of dollars from the Pentagon to promote ‘covert’ propaganda. Hmmmmm. Another example of war profiteering per chance?
December 1st, 2005 at 7:45 pm#45 – “So now this ‘war’ is all about spreading freedom, democracy and lies.
Just when you think that this administration can’t get any more immoral…”
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — December 1, 2005 @ 7:39 pm
****Jane – Go ask Wayne – were there “lies” printed???
How is this for a definition: ProgWebster’s defines “lie”
“ANYTHING good happening on the ground in Iraq – especially if this event appears in newspapers or television.”
Here’s the definition for “truth” according to ProgWebster’s: “ANY utterance, innuendo, estimate, doodle, said by any prog at anytime – the more such info is repeated the MORE true it will become.”
December 1st, 2005 at 8:05 pmGive it up MA.
December 1st, 2005 at 8:07 pmNobody is buying your BS.
Conservatives praise Pentagon propaganda
I think this says a lot about the “values” of the Right…
December 1st, 2005 at 8:08 pmPropaganda is corrosive.
December 1st, 2005 at 8:10 pmPeople who are there KNOW the score.
Telling lies just makes them distrust you.
Like Soviet Russia, and 1984, everyone KNOWS
the shoe production is a lie.
#47 – Mighty Aphrodite, If the news were really that good it would cost a lot less. don’t you think?”
Comment by Adjectiveman — December 1, 2005 @ 7:40 pm
****Excellent point, Adjectiveman!!!!! It depends on who’s doing the negotiating. But you must consider what value a risk becomes. Some Iraqi’s are under terrible threat from the barbarians. And when you consider the “bleeds leads” mentality of the “journalism” profession…it’s no wonder. Who wants to read (yaw…n) about another school being re-furbished and opened??? Not 90% of the crowd (what a compliment!) here at Think Pessimism.
December 1st, 2005 at 8:16 pmAfterthought – A simple question -were they reporting lies, or were they paid to print factual stories?? “Stay tuned, ‘Truth hurts Pessimists,….film at 11:00′”
December 1st, 2005 at 8:21 pm#48– OK, go on back to your FAUX News. I’m sure you’ll enjoy all the latest unlabled White House VNRs and foodfights by Heritage fellows…
December 1st, 2005 at 8:27 pmThey were PAID! Thats all that matters M.A.
December 1st, 2005 at 8:30 pmEver been there? You should go. They would Love a Rich Bitch like you over there.
They liked Mikey Jackson.
Nice try MA, but they are talking propaganda, not “factual”
December 1st, 2005 at 8:33 pmstories. Ask Rove to fax you better spin.
I really do think you and the other whack-jobs
don’t know the difference.
Is it my imagination, or is MA sounding more and more like Ann Coulter?
December 1st, 2005 at 8:52 pm#59,
I noticed, but thought it was just me.
December 1st, 2005 at 8:59 pmI don’t take credit for this comment. It was taken off another blogs comment board but it fits so well that I’m reposting it here:
————————————-
Good God! We’re talking about propaganda, right?!? Not carpet-bombing, or summary executions, or napalm, chemical and biological weapons, concentration camps, forced marches, slave labor…??? Propaganda!!
PROPAGANDA!!!! Are you people insane? Tell me one war where both sides didn’t use propaganda as much as possible. No, no, NOOOO! We don’t want to win using PROPAGANDA! We’d much prefer having to kill thousands more than to win anyone over with PROPAGANDA! The funniest thing is the guy supporting propaganda by saying we want a level playing-field. WRONG!! I
want the playing-field tilted as far as possible in my favor. Period. If propaganda gives me an advantage, then give me as much as you’ve got. But, no, no, no. We don’t want to sully our names with THAT!! What will people think of us?? No. Let’s stick to bullets and bombs. At least that way we can keep our dignity.
http://www.reason.com/hitandrun/2005/12/propaganda_apol.shtml#011836
December 1st, 2005 at 9:17 pmMA,
I had already shut down my computer at work when Jane told me you needed my advice.
First, lose the asterisks. They look childish.
Second, it’s not so much a question of whether lies were told as whether mis-representations of the truth were made. While these propaganda pieces may contain some truth, they do not contain all the truths both good and bad.
They are not intended to inform, they are intended to mislead. They should be labeled as the paid advertisements that they clearly are.
Gotta run. Good night, and good luck.
December 1st, 2005 at 9:22 pmErm, the Chief of general staff seemed concerned that the stories were undermining the effort since they would be poorly perceived in Iraq. Also, they are being identified as ‘positive’ stories by the two news channels I am watching…
December 1st, 2005 at 9:32 pmMA,
I would love to hear more stories about schools opening. That and police stations, businesses, utilities, etc. What I don’t want to keep hearing is people being blown up in mosques, police training stations, bazaars, etc. We are occupiers of a country. Imagine if in our country which is x-times the size of Iraq and we had people being blown up in churches and stores. You don’t think that would be bigger news than a school opening? DUH.
December 1st, 2005 at 10:02 pmIt must be really tough to try to
December 1st, 2005 at 10:27 pmplug all the holes in the “our own reality”
bubble when “real reality” keeps slashing
from the outside.
So, feel sorry for the trolls, they have a
really tough job these days.
#65.
December 1st, 2005 at 10:59 pmR U really Jerry Springer?lol.(afterthought, get it?))
I don,t feel Sorry for the Trolls.
They asked for WAR, They Got War!
Point Blank!
No, not Jerry, but I get it. ;^)
December 1st, 2005 at 11:03 pmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4490324.stm
Bush concern at Iraq ‘propaganda’
Baghdadis reaping newspapers
Iraqis will wonder whether they should trust what papers say
The White House has expressed concern over reports that the US military is planting favourable stories about Iraq in the Baghdad press.
“We are seeking more information from the Pentagon,” White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.
The reports, originally carried by the Los Angeles Times, said the Pentagon was secretly paying Iraqi papers to run articles praising US and Iraqi troops.
Many stories are being presented as independent accounts, the paper said.
“We’re very concerned about the reports,” Mr McClellan said on Thursday.
We’ve made our views very clear when it comes to freedom of press
Scott McClellan
White House spokesman
“We need to know what the facts are,” he told reporters.
The US, Mr McClellan said, was “a leader when it comes to promoting and advocating a free and independent media around the world, and we will continue to do so”.
He added: “We’ve made our views very clear when it comes to freedom of press.”
December 1st, 2005 at 11:21 pmSo if Republicans all value PROPAGANDA, and NONE of them are concerned about the validity, accuracy of that propaganda. Then once again we have confirmation that republicans ARE NAZIS. There’s a REASON propaganda is legal inside of this country, and frankly it’s the SAME reason it should be illegal for the government to do outside of the country. It undermines our credibility, and shows we don’t care about truth or honesty. It also shows we’re more interested in the ‘goal’ than the ‘means’, which is way to similar to dictators and terrorists we are SUPPOSED to be fighting, than any civilized american should ever have to deal with.
Republicans are fascist losers! The ONLY way they can sell a message is by lying about it (as the trolls ineptly but daily reinforce).
December 1st, 2005 at 11:22 pmWhack a Trolls! -Aj
December 1st, 2005 at 11:23 pmSay if BUSH is COMMANDER IN CHIEF ISNT HE WORRIED ABOUT DUHBYA?? AND CHAINME? Hmmmmm -Aj
December 1st, 2005 at 11:24 pmRovian Republicans perfected propaganda here at home. To them twisting the truth in Iraq is no big deal; just a part of the war effort…which of course, we liberals are now “criminalizing” by questioning their ethics.
December 1st, 2005 at 11:26 pmLet’s see, we “criminalized” their right to leak classfied information. Now we’re “crimininalizing” fake propaganda. What’s next? Oh yes, Abrahmof…we’re going to “criminalize” their right to receive bribes.
From wikipedia
And why is this relevant? Because the point is the LIE OF OMISSION is just as immoral as the lie (ask any good catholic who’s ACTUALLY religious). Of course morons like MightyAphrodite that CLAIMS to have gone to catholic school, or MizzWrong that CLAIMS to be catholic should know this. But in reality we all know those that claim to be religious tend to know the least about religious values.
Anyway, the point is that propaganda is bad, because the very intention is to mislead through a PARTIAL as opposed to IMPARTIAL representation of information. It’s why everyone hates republicans, they don’t understand the definition of impartial fact.
December 1st, 2005 at 11:33 pmMisleading news stories to propagandize???? Finally, a gig for Dan Rather to come out of retirement for…Go Dan!
December 2nd, 2005 at 12:45 amMark,
Very funny. OReilly is more appropriate, unlike Rather who didn’t realize the source was bogus, OReilly LIKES lying and spreading propaganda for a living. Just like you…
December 2nd, 2005 at 1:06 amAndrew Sullivan got it right. Big phuckin deal. This site is a pro-defeatest propaganda machine. And look at all the LGM facists towing the line.
December 2nd, 2005 at 1:28 am#76 Everything I read about Iraq confirms my initial prognosis, namely that the Iraqis are fighting an anti-colonial war of independence. You will lose just as the French lost in Algeria and Vietnam, and just as the British lost their empire. In the meantime I will tell all my friends not to buy American products — you’ve killed over 100,000 Iraqi civilians that you consider mere “collateral damage.” The Chinese are buying a lot of the treasury bills you issue to finance this war. I hope one day they use that clout along with the EU and Japan to topple the position of the US dollar as the international reserve currency of choice. When that happens you will no longer get a free ride on your economy – perhaps then you’ll stop being a country of warmongers.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:17 amRegarding MightyAfrodite(MA) and good/bad news: the same tired argument has been made for decades about American TV news (”they only report the BAD things”). That’s because in a stable (GOOD) society, BAD things tend to be the exceptional events, thus newsworthy. This, and the love that most people seem to have for hearing all about the “dirt”. However, in certain (large) parts of Iraq, perhaps this situation is now mostly inverted (GOOD news the exception, BAD stuff the norm). So, bravo, good journalism after all!
And, if we now have control($$) of the Iraqi press, let’s just combine this with tight curfews and then just do the entire war in the media! – virtual battles – read all about the latest virtual victory (as seen on TV)! The ultimate Info-mercial !!
December 2nd, 2005 at 8:33 amHey LTJ,
That last bit reminds me of the old “Star Trek”
December 2nd, 2005 at 8:55 amepisode where two planets have a virtual war going
and “attacks” are generated by computer.
The simulated “casualties” had to actually go
get executed by their own side.
Was propaganda so bad when Hitler used it? Maybe we should lighten up on these guys. It’s not like they are gasing anyone.
December 2nd, 2005 at 9:42 am#76 Everything I read about Iraq confirms my initial prognosis, namely that the Iraqis are fighting an anti-colonial war of independence.
Comment by Chris from Switzerland
Well, that’s incorrect. The Iraqis are fighting alongside the USA and coalition forces to rid themselves of the remains of Saddam’s Sunni/Ba’athist terror teams and murder squads. They are also fighting along side our troops to fend off infiltrators from Iran, Syria and other Muslim thugocracies that hate the democratic changes they see happening throughout the Middle East thanks to George Bush and the troops of the coalition forces.
I thought you Swiss were just a little bit smarter than to read only Left Wing Zeropean Propaganda Rags. Are you a communist by any chance?
December 2nd, 2005 at 9:54 amAhhh…good to see that the fascistas still know where to come to post their drivel… Too bad they’re losing this “debate”, which is why they resort to calling people from other countries “communists” without any basis.
December 2nd, 2005 at 10:14 amBushlandia lost this war when they decided, for PR purposes only, to bypass ammo dumps and rush into Baghdad and tear down statutes of Hussein.
King George, you cannot defeat the insurgents with the army you have at present. How in the hell are you going to defeat them by bringing them home to satisfy your reichwing folks for the up-coming elections?
December 2nd, 2005 at 10:20 amChris from Switz – products from America? We don’t have many anymore; most of the manufacturing is done in Asia. We seem to have proverbially shot ourselves in the foot. You’re also correct that much of our debt has been financed by China and Japan; a nasty little fact that a few Americans don’t know or understand the future impact.
There are many of us who don’t support Bush’s war or his agenda. It is so unfortunate that we, as the US, have lost so much in relation to our respect, integrity, and influence on the international stage. Be that as it may, the world economy is interrelated; if/when America goes down, so does the rest of the world. It’s sad that foreigners hold so much animosity to the average American.
I believe that Americans are a strong and hardy bunch. We’ve suffered setbacks, depressions, recessions, unjust wars, and unethical political representatives. An indication of future behavior is past behavior; we’ve weathered our past setbacks, I’m confident that we will will weather this one; and hopefully, be much stronger and wiser for it.
December 2nd, 2005 at 10:21 amAndrew Sullivan:
So we’re spinning the Iraqi press by planting propaganda in its pages? BFD [Big f***ing deal]. … We’re adjusting to war in a new media universe. We haven’t adjusted swiftly enough.
Dissect this:
Andrew Sullivan hears this and recognizes this isn’t ethical
but he gets defensive in a split hair of a second
and says “BFD”
…meanwhile, his mind quickly scrambles for a rationalization to back up the defensive claim (ie, that it’s not a big deal)
“We’re adjusting to war in a new media universe.”
which is to say: “we can’t expect to be perfect at first
under emergency situations…but our response is in
the appropriate ball-park — to control the truth” ???
Then you can see his mind fliping the damning issue
on it’s head, Rove style, using the greatest strength as the focus of attack:
“We haven’t adjusted swiftly enough.”
which is to say: “We have to play by different rules
and we haven’t done enough of this quickly enough
so …… It was supposed to be so all pervasive
that you wouldn’t notice. You weren’t supposed to
notice.”
Short version: “Ooops! we got caught.”
December 2nd, 2005 at 10:57 amAhhh…good to see that the fascistas still know where to come to post their drivel… Too bad they’re losing this “debateâ€, which is why they resort to calling people from other countries “communists†without any basis.
Comment by Zippy the Other Pinhead
Well pinhead let’s just say the communists while they are raping and pillaging their latest victims always say of the USA…
#76 Everything I read about Iraq confirms my initial prognosis, namely that the Iraqis are fighting an anti-colonial war of independence.
Comment by Chris from Switzerland
…..those damn American Imperialists at it again. How old a pinhead are you, ten?
December 2nd, 2005 at 11:21 amRightys,
I am sure there actually is some good news that occurs in Iraq, and some of the reports are actually true. It’s all about what you choose to focus on. However, the boys have been crying wolf so much, that it is difficult to believe anything they say. They have to earn the trust back.
December 2nd, 2005 at 12:09 pmI actually would like to imagine that some part of the billions of dollars and thousands of lives lost would have an occaisional positive effect.
December 2nd, 2005 at 12:11 pmSo now its a media war on terror? oh crud…INCOMING!
December 2nd, 2005 at 12:17 pmnope, not ten (like your IQ), i-wrong-eye…old enough to know lies and BS when I see it, like what we usually hear from you and your fascist friends in the administration.
Oh, it’s SUCH a bother to toy with the trolls…yawwwwnnn…
December 2nd, 2005 at 12:23 pmRightys,
I am sure there actually is some good news that occurs in Iraq, and some of the reports are actually true. It’s all about what you choose to focus on. However, the boys have been crying wolf so much, that it is difficult to believe anything they say. They have to earn the trust back.
Comment by For Truth
I’m not sure which boys you are talking about crying wolf unless it’s the boys who say; “oil for blood”, “Bush=Hitler”, “Quagmire”, etc.
December 2nd, 2005 at 2:04 pmOh, it’s SUCH a bother to toy with the trolls…yawwwwnnn…
Comment by Zippy the Other Pinhead
Then don’t bother. Save your energy for your Liberal Mutual Masturbation Meeting here at Think Communist. Get some sleep.
December 2nd, 2005 at 2:06 pm#17 – “Propoganda is a tool of dictators and despots. It is against all democratic principles and cannot exist in a truly free environment.” – Pessimist
December 2nd, 2005 at 2:45 pm*****Pessimist – I applaud the honesty of your name choice. What do you call this “non-partisan site”?? From your post, may I assume you’ve turned in your Think Pessimism “secret decoder ring”, your Media Matters
3-D eyeglasses, and your Move-on.org ball cap?
#62 – “First, lose the asterisks. They look childish.
Second, it’s not so much a question of whether lies were told as whether mis-representations of the truth were made.”
- Wayne
*****Wayne – I could care less how asterisks appeal to you; your intolerance for my individuality is telling. (My sensitivity for the visually impaired allows me to help them cut through the “crap” I am referencing and quickly get to my insight.)
From the laborious third sentence above, I have deduced:
a.) you taught President Clinton the nuances of semantics.
b.) Bill taught you.
“They are not intended to inform, they are intended to mislead” – Wayne
December 2nd, 2005 at 3:10 pmWayne….Wayne…Wayne….If they are telling the truth – about casualties and attacks…. and positive ahievements are told also – how is THAT misleading????? I guess the only “true” news to Think Pessimism and progs is bad news!! Does relishing only the negative truth help progs feel that “our” (HA!) service members will soon be home??? Well, I guess if you don’t actually do ANYTHING except feel bad about a situation – you DO NOT get to claim the hallmark of the left: “moral superiority”. Who knew?
VodkaPundit’s Stephen Green’s comment, “Smart move, given that the Iraq Campaign is one small part of the Terror War-in which the media is the arm of decision. If you don’t manage information, you lose. … Propaganda is important in any war, but it’s vital in a media war.” is very telling. That is how the Bush Administration and the Republican Party has viewed their rule of the United States as one big “media war†“in which the media is the arm of decision” and in which a big part of their “campaign†against us, the American people, is to mislead us through propaganda.
December 2nd, 2005 at 3:24 pmFor those who defend this propagandizing of the news, there is a distinction that should be considered. To drop leaflets via airplane on a population is a form of propaganda that is recognized for what it is, and everyone accepts that.
December 2nd, 2005 at 3:33 pmTo co-opt the “legitimate” news media with propaganda written and then sold for print as a supposed news story, whether fact or fiction or a combination of the two, is an abomination of democracy, of the free press, and a complete disservice to our men and women fighting there.
81
In a language you can understand: Baa-baa, baa. Baa, baa.
December 2nd, 2005 at 3:51 pmMarie – You mean like the NYT? The “men and women fighting” really appreciate having Punchy and the NYT let EVERYONE know the location of CIA landings. Good work, NYT!
December 2nd, 2005 at 3:53 pmJust heard a caller on the Ed Schultz Show report that there might be evidence that someone has been writing false letters from soldiers to newspapers around the country praising the war’s purpose. Only problem is that the soldiers didn’t actually write the letters- someone else used their names and planted the letters.
If this turns out to be true, it could be a pretty big deal…though not at all surprising. The voting military would be livid, if a majority of them aren’t already.
December 2nd, 2005 at 4:04 pmMA, if you look at IRI’s posting just before yours, you’ll see that one CAN manage to type a clear and legible posting without using asterisks. You could also lose the extra punctuation marks.
As to your comment about the similarity between Wayne’s writing and Bill Clinton’s, I’ll remind Wayne to thank you for the unintended compliment. You’re just not used to people who can speak and communicate with grammatical correctness and an extensive vocabulary
December 2nd, 2005 at 4:26 pmMA,
What she said.
December 2nd, 2005 at 6:01 pmWell, I guess if you don’t actually do ANYTHING except feel bad about a situation – you DO NOT get to claim the hallmark of the left: “moral superiorityâ€. Who knew?
Comment by mighty aphrodite — December 2, 2005 @ 3:10 pm
Not true. I do actually DO something – I vote! And I vote against Republicans.
Oh, and thanks for comparing me to Bill Clinton. I appreciate the compliment. I’ll have to remember it if I ever run into him when I’m near his home in Chappaqua.
December 2nd, 2005 at 6:04 pmRE: #98 by MA “…the NYT let EVERYONE know the location of CIA landings”
Do you mean the same NYT that allowed Vice-Presidential Spokesperson Judy Miller to sell the country on our elective war with unverified, crap evidence from the likes of “Curveball” and the fugitive con-man Chalabi?
Maybe the NYT is now trying to atone for the pathetic disgrace of Ms. Run-Amok by doing some real investigative reporting on the beginning stages of the American Gulag. If the “terrorists” are so guilty, then what’s the problem with resolving the cases in court?
December 2nd, 2005 at 6:19 pmJane ****************** I-RIGHT-I said to pass along his most sincere and heartfelt “thanks”. How kind of you to notice his spacing abilities!! I, on the other hand, prefer to waste less paper.
“You could also lose the extra punctuation marks.” – Jane
*************** Are you as “white bread and mayo” as you sound?? I guess progs are the group who write alike to sound alike – next you’ll be telling me how much you value “diversity and individuality.” Fooled me!
For your sake, Jane, I hope the similarities between Wayne and Bill end at their “tremendous” ability for parsing words and “cogent” debate.
Wayne****************** I hope you DO get to meet your hero!! I hear he hangs out at the local Starbucks – that is when he’s actually home and not abroad critiquing his replacements’ policies. But I suppose it is a bit much to ask a “gentleman” of such high intelligence – and arrested emotional development – to show even a modicom of decorum. You may want to wash your hands after you shake his. You never know where those hands have been. (I can just picture you fawning all over him!) What a highlight!
December 2nd, 2005 at 7:21 pmWhy should the Iraqi’s be special? We have a media that feeds us this administration’s propaganda. Our broadcast media has no interest in exposing the corruption of the Republican Party. In a real democracy, the truth is needed for people to make informed decisions. The media has abdicated their role in our providing the truth. Better to focus on missing white women or “The War on Merry Christmas”, then indepth exposure of gamed electronic voting machines.
So our bogus media can report bogus stories planted by our bogus administration fighting a bogus war.
December 2nd, 2005 at 8:09 pmExcellent pessimism, Innocent!
December 2nd, 2005 at 8:25 pmAs their bible says …
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (John 8:44, KJV)
It’s always been pretty evident who/what this administration worships, don’t ya’ think?
December 3rd, 2005 at 12:08 pmGiven that the GAO found illegalities in Bush hiring people to advertise ‘pro-Bush’ infomericals without designating them as such, and we have the likes of Novak (Robert and Vivica), Millers, and Woodward amongst several others in our MSM, how do we honestly know that we’re not being subjected to similar propaganda? Pessimist? Paranoid? Sometimes. Who can you trust?
December 3rd, 2005 at 12:56 pmhow do we honestly know that we’re not being subjected to similar propaganda? Pessimist? Paranoid? Sometimes. Who can you trust?
Comment by im4mary
You can trust me baby. Whatever you don’t don’t trust yourself. That’s how you got this way in the first place.
December 3rd, 2005 at 2:53 pmOh Baby (#110) I feel so much better now! Especially after you were so rude to me a few days ago! Ahhhhhh, the warm fuzzies are just crawling up my spine! If nothing else, You make me see the light; it’s pretty much the exact opposite of what you see! Thanks!
December 3rd, 2005 at 3:37 pmHere’s an interesting article on the propaganda spoof.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/120305Z.shtml
I was also reading that some guy’s names are being used for these articles in which they haven’t written.
December 3rd, 2005 at 3:41 pmI didn’t realize the NY Times was in Iraq…Wait until Dan Rather finds out, he’s gonna be pissed that someone out “scooped” him…..
December 4th, 2005 at 11:20 pmBREAKING NEWS:
ABC/ TIME MAG NEW POLL
7 in 10 Iraqis say their own lives are going well, and nearly two-thirds expect things to improve in the year ahead.
You lost little liberal cowards are on the wrong side of history!
December 12th, 2005 at 2:30 pmpuddle of mud
puddle of mud
December 28th, 2005 at 9:08 amCarpets & Rugs
March 30th, 2008 at 10:00 pm