My Experience With Abusive Interrogation Tactics
My Experience With Abusive Interrogation Tactics
[AmericanProgress recently launched TortureIsNotUS.org, a campaign to support the McCain anti-torture legislation now being held up by conservatives in Congress. Our guest blogger, Peter Bauer, is a former U.S. Army military intelligence interrogator who served during the Gulf War with the 3rd Armored Division.]
During the latter days of the Cold War and the quite warm days of the first Gulf War, I served in the United States Army as an Interrogator (MOS 97E). As a graduate of the Interrogation program at the U.S. Army Intelligence Center and School, Ft. Huachuca, Arizona, I received comprehensive training on acceptable interrogation techniques, as well as training in adherence to the Geneva Conventions.
But it’s not that training that produced my firm conviction that torture and “coercive interrogation techniques” are ineffective intelligence gathering techniques. It is my experience using such techniques myself, as an instructor in resistance to interrogation.
Working with US and NATO troops as part of a program called “Survival Evasion Resistance Escape” (SERE), I used these techniques on our own and allied troops. SERE training prepares soldiers, airmen, and commandos most likely to be captured for a worst-case scenario. It helps them learn how to avoid jeopardizing missions (and the lives of their brothers in arms) by resisting abusive treatment and harsh interrogations.
As a quid pro quo for providing this training, the interrogators involved were also allowed to hone their own skills, using doctrinally-approved interrogation techniques as well. Even when working with such elite troops as the US Special Forces and the British SAS, we found that the standard interrogation techniques found in the US Army Field Manual 34-52 were far more effective than such abusive behavior as stress positions, sensory deprivation, and humiliation. We obtained more information – and more reliable information – with our basic skills than we did with even days of harsh treatment.
As an interrogator, it was also critical to keep in mind the reliability of the information being obtained from a source. When the subject was convinced (or even tricked) into cooperating, the intelligence gathered proved to be reliable. On the other hand, it quickly became evident, even in my early days of resistance training, that when subjected to harsh treatment, the tendency is indeed to say whatever the subject believes will make the abuse stop. And that, I learned, is generally not the truth.
– Peter Bauer
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But we don’t torture. At least the Commander in Chief says we don’t. If he is lying then he is breaking the law and dishonoring our country’s once highly regarded stance towards human rights and dignity. If we are torturing, we are no better than the terrorists. If our leadrers sanction, or order torture they hate America and we must rid ourselves of their pestilence and clean out the temple, not just the “bad apples”, cut off the branches that bore them and destroy the tree if you must. I say unto thee, you America hating hypocrite, paper Christians, begone and good riddance come 2006 don’t let the door hit you in the ass. (Psst. Democrats, now would be a good time to frame the argument and get real loud about this torture issue, it is an issue firmly grounded in the guiding principles of this great country.)
December 1st, 2005 at 12:12 pmI’m glad to see the Center for American Progress doing yet another great thing for democracy and transparency in our government.
Just heard Podesta on Air America, and it was fantastic.
December 1st, 2005 at 12:12 pmYou make a much better argument against our current interrogation techniques. The other one, that what we are doing is wrong, is ineffectual because people would rather be safe than right. Besides we will still be on the good side as long as torture is used on terrorists. Check out my blog at http://www.biggerview.blogspot.com
December 1st, 2005 at 12:15 pmSuspected terrorists don’t count. Torture ‘em. It’s fun.
December 1st, 2005 at 12:25 pmIf Cheney has a pretty good idea they’re guilty anyway, what’s the problem?
December 1st, 2005 at 12:27 pmUmmmm…it doesn’t take special training, military service, or experience to know any of this. If you threaten to kill someone unless they confirm “a story”, they’ll confirm. If you nearly drown someone to find out where “the insurgents are”, they’ll just make up whatever location that makes you stop trying to drown them. Accuracy be dammed, because, after all, they’ll stop being abused if they speak.
I’m convinced the torture isn’t to get information, it’s as an indimidation technique. As in, when Amjed comes home with 3 drill holes in his legs, Amjed’s friends will be less willing to pick up arms against the US…
December 1st, 2005 at 12:28 pmIt only makes sense that torture doesn’t work.
December 1st, 2005 at 12:34 pmWilkerson unplugged…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4481092.stm
Is Big Dick guilty of war crimes?
“An interesting question”, according to the Colonel.
December 1st, 2005 at 12:39 pmWe have become what we are fighting to stop. We are no better than them. They will treat us as we have treated them and we should expect no better.
The terrorists have won.
December 1st, 2005 at 12:42 pmPunchy,
December 1st, 2005 at 12:56 pmMay cause them to join the fight, if they see to many drill holes…not that I (or anyone here as far as I believe) advocates iraqi’s joining a fight against us, but if we keep tourturing it won’t intimidate them, it will build resolve
#6 Punchy
The problem with your 3 holes in the leg theory is that it can also have the exact opposite effect. Meaning that when Akmhed comes home from the American Gulag, his friends and neighbors are obliged to exact revenge. This is how most of the world works. Eye for an eye and all that stuff.
December 1st, 2005 at 12:56 pmThe McCain legislation is not “anti-torture” it is much broader than that. Stop lying.
December 1st, 2005 at 1:11 pmSimply put;A dog can lick his balls, so he does, if a man could..well, and these animals that torture, do it because they can, and they believe they can get away with it, without penalty, and that policy is solely the fault of those in charge, Rummy, Cheney etc..
December 1st, 2005 at 1:14 pmI HATE YOUR FREEDOMS, AMERICA!!!!
http://www.cnn.com/rssclick/2005/LAW/12/01/execution.record.ap/index.html?section=cnn_topstories
December 1st, 2005 at 1:22 pmhttp://www.cnn.com/rssclick/2005/LAW/12/01/execution.record.ap/index.html?section=cnn_topstories
1,000th execution could be Vietnam vet
Killer: ‘I’d hate to be remembered for that’
Thursday, December 1, 2005; Posted: 8:06 a.m. EST (13:06 GMT)
Kenneth Boyd, 57, is scheduled to be executed Friday for the murders of his estranged wife and her father.
Manage Alerts | What Is This? RALEIGH, North Carolina (AP) — A killer on North Carolina’s death row worries about becoming a macabre footnote to history — the 1,000th person executed in the U.S. since capital punishment was reinstated in 1976.
December 1st, 2005 at 1:25 pm#11,12–I fully understand that. I was looking at it from a a solider’s justification point-of-view. Meaning, what they might say when tesifying at their abuse trial. OF COURSE it’s having the opposite effect. Hence, so many insurgents.
December 1st, 2005 at 1:31 pmU.S. paying Iraqi press?
December 1st, 2005 at 1:32 pmNov. 30: NBC’s Andrea Mitchell reports on a Los Angeles Times article that says the U.S. military is paying the Iraqi press to publish articles written by U.S. troops.
MSNBC
i didn’t see this references in the post or the comments but pbs frontline did an interview with another interrogator who essentially said the same thing…
here’s the summary… damning stuff but also corroboration of what we’ve thought all along…
pbs frontline has the interview transcript…
And, yes, I DO take it personally
December 1st, 2005 at 2:24 pm“The worst stuff I saw was from the detaining units who would torture people in their homes,â€
Sort of like a Neocon “Passover”.
December 1st, 2005 at 2:35 pmWhat pisses me off about Liberals is that while you condemn the U.S. for their “supposed” torture tactics, you seem to support the efforts of our enemy. When Daniel Pearl was beheaded a full year before we ever went into Iraq, did you comdemn that act of brutality? Forcing someone to wear pantyhose seems to pale in comparison. Whose side are you on anyway?
December 1st, 2005 at 2:51 pmAhh! the BOYS were just letting off a little steam—-Rust Limpdick
Is that the same kind of steam that comes from a gay bath house Rust?
December 1st, 2005 at 2:57 pmRandy your questioned has been answered too many times…everyone here is more of a patriot than nearly anyone you can find in the WH, especially the oval office…we come to this site to talk about current issues, just taking the time to read and comment with no personal gain (in my case anyways) yet those getting rich off these events are the ones that truely support this quagmire(sp) but we do not support insurgants, or the admins goals, only what is best for US citizens
December 1st, 2005 at 3:04 pmWhat next, US trained death squads in Iraq? Yep, they are being trained as we speak.
December 1st, 2005 at 3:24 pmChris in AZ is clearly not a patriot.
December 1st, 2005 at 3:42 pmDuring my military career I was an 0311 Rifleman in the USMC from 1985-89 and a 97E IPW interrogator/ interrogation instructor from 1989-94 in the ARNG. I also received the same training that Peter did at Ft. Huachuca. I trained interrogators who later served in the first Gulf War. The highest quality info obtained was from “soft” approaches and techniques, period. Randy, to suggest that I as a liberal and a veteran and an interrogation instructor am not outraged at the depravity of our enemies in this conflict is frankly insulting and asinine. The biggest thing we had going for us prior to the extensively documented abuses which go far beyond mere “panty hose” is that we were “the good guys” dammit. That is irrevocably lost. Even during the SERE schools I participated in Korea when I used harsh techniques on US/ROK air crew and SF I felt the tinge of evil for lack of a better word. As a professional trained interrogator I am filled with moral revulsion at the thought of actually doing these things to another human being. But these things have been done at a cost to ourselves and our victims that we haven’t even begun to reckon, let alone pay.
December 1st, 2005 at 3:58 pmWhat pisses me off about Conservatives is that their Tom Clancy/Larry Bond tough guy wargasm fantasies have nothing to do with how the job is actually done. And yet, they expect their rich fantasy life opinions to be taken seriously. Randy, if you are eligible, get your self down to the recruiting station and specifically ask for 11B if you choose the Army or 0311 if you have the stones to be a Marine. I’ve done my part for my country and I have an opinion on this subject which deserves attention. When you get back, so will you.
grim is a poseur. If anything, he joined the Girl Scouts.
December 1st, 2005 at 4:00 pm#26
December 1st, 2005 at 4:42 pmIf the time were different and I were younger, I would join up. Thank you for your service to the country. It says a lot about your character and I respect you for that. But it seems whenever a liberal can’t win a debate over the topic of war, they tell you go sign up, like that will solve the problem. If I did sign up, I would want my entire country supporting me where ever I was stationed though. The way the liberals have been treating the war effort is like playing football and having the home crowd root against you and for the other team. Believe me, I don’t support torture anymore than you do, but if we had evidence that a major attack was forthcoming, wouldn’t you want to try everything in your power to stop it? Being nice to the rest of the world didn’t stop 9/11 from happening did it?
did some one say anything…the only thing Bill O’Riely aka WWallace should be saying is “FREEDOM” just before the axe comes down
December 1st, 2005 at 4:52 pmWithout descending too far into the pointless spiral with you wwallace let me provide you with some specifics. My FUD in the USMCR was 3d Rfl Plt/Wpns Plt Det/F Co/2 Bn/23d Regt/4 MarDiv out of Las Vegas. My FUD in the UTARNG was Korean IPW Sec/A Co/141 MI Bn/300 MI Bde in Draper, UT. I was an instructor in the 6th RFI IPW School. We ran our schools in the Bay Area, first at the Presidio, then at NSTI. CW4 Paul Holton of “Chief Wiggles” fame was my section chief. One of my instructor colleagues from that period, who writes under the nom de plume of Chris Mackey, recently published a book about his experiences in Afghanistan as an interrogator.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:03 pmRandy, questioning the entire process of how we ended up in what respected military historian Martin Creveld has labeled the worst military blunder since Augustus sent the legions to be destroyed in Germany in 9 BC does not equate to a lack of support for the troops fighting. Criticism of how we have lost what soft power, moral standing and positive regard we had in the world through complete clusterf#$%s like the torture scandal is not unpatriotic. The lies and horrors have to be exposed, excised and rejected forever or we will not survive as Americans. I’m definitely for the home team.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:39 pmRead Ch.8 and 9 of the 9/11 Commission report to find out how preventive intelligence was mishandled, mis-directed and just plain missed. In the classic “ticking bomb scenario” you allude to when you say “a major attack”, apologists for torture say the obvious interest in preventing the deaths of numerous innocents justifies the practice, now matter how deplorable. And believe me, no interrogator alive hasn’t wondered what he/she would do in those circumstances. I’ve flirted with creative uses of duct tape, rubbing alcohol and a lighter, but only in the darkest recesses of my imagination.
What is left out of the “ticking bomb” scenario is a history. No individual or group could ever place a bomb without leaving a history of contacts, communications, material aquisition, training times and locations, transportation, and financing. That’s where real intelligence happens and it’s hard work. Relationships have to cultivated, signals sifted and de-crypted from noise, small unrelated pieces have to be collated to inform a whole.
If you’re left with one bad guy and torture as your only option to stop the bomb you’ve already failed. If your intelligence apparatus is doing its job there was never a chance for the bomb to start ticking.
I was only a lowly IPW tasked with finding out the present, future and past missions of “Ivan and his 1000 Mongolian sheepherders”, and so I don’t know everything that enters into that calculus of whether or not to resort to torture. But my training, my experience and my gut reject it along with Larry Johnson and other former CIA pros who have come down on my side of the debate.
If you’re left with one bad guy and torture as your only option to stop the bomb you’ve already failed. If your intelligence apparatus is doing its job there was never a chance for the bomb to start ticking.
Comment by grim — December 1, 2005 @ 5:39 pm
Thank you for your very valuable input, and for sharing a real world perspective.
This is one of the topics that is hotly debated here at ThinkProgress, with the neocon apologists offering all kinds of rationalisation for torturing a suspect.
What we often counter is that torture is not only illegal and immoral, but also ineffective for the reasons you so aptly describe.
Thanks again, and I look forward to reading more of your opinions on this and other subjects. Oh, and never mind wwallace -he is one of our resident trolls.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:55 pmGregor, calling me names will never change your lies to the truth.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:57 pmThanks Gregor, I realize holding forth at great length at the end of a thread is damn near pointless, but every time I see this same crap I can’t help it.
December 1st, 2005 at 6:03 pmevery time I see this same crap I can’t help it.
Comment by grim — December 1, 2005 @ 6:03 pm
Then I encourage you to post and debunk these nonsensical comments -your experience shuold be an eye-opener for many.
If you get tired of posting the same stuff over and over again, providing links to the best-of-breed of your posts will suffice.
December 1st, 2005 at 6:51 pmThank you grim. I appreciate your service, your honesty, and your tenacity for diplomatically confronting this poor individual who cannot, unfortunately, understand logic, common sense, truth, and healthy discourse.
Your input is valuable. Refreshing comes to mind.
December 1st, 2005 at 7:01 pmWhat pisses me off about Liberals is that while you condemn the U.S. for their “supposed†torture tactics, you seem to support the efforts of our enemy.
Straw man, bad one, too. Hmmm, try as I might, I just can’t seem to find that post that says killing/torturing Americans is a good thing. If anything, all I see, from the sane people, at least, is that torture is wrong, period.
December 1st, 2005 at 7:14 pm“What pisses me off about Liberals is that while you condemn the U.S. for their “supposed†torture tactics, you seem to support the efforts of our enemy. When Daniel Pearl was beheaded a full year before we ever went into Iraq, did you comdemn that act of brutality?” RandyRedneck
Bahaha, are you kidding? Randy shows why republicans all ride the short bus. Duh! Of course EVERYONE condemned this you retard…
And there’s NOTHING supposed about putting a man in a sleeping bag and beating him to death. Iraqi General Abed Hamed Mowhoush was stuffed in a bag, and beaten to death, and this was documented and reported by the washington post. Clearly you’re the foolish of the republican fools RandyRedneck
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/080305I.shtml
” Forcing someone to wear pantyhose seems to pale in comparison. Whose side are you on anyway?”
Was that before or after they broke his ribs and smothered him to death for not talking.
And I WISH this were an isolated incident. It’s one of way too many torture cases that have been documented, proven and for heavens sake PHOTOGRAPHED. What happens to americans at the hand of terrorists is criminal, but to become criminal to fight it does make one just, but it does prove that those who do so are psychotic (that would be you AND the terrorists)…
Wake up fool!
December 1st, 2005 at 11:43 pmGary Boatwright said this best once, and I quote
The fact is that butchering and torturing people is wrong PERIOD. Idiots like Randy who believe you fight terrorism with terrorism are just terrorists, and NOT americans. No wonder so many abortions are rightwing and republican – they seem to have a natural propensity to violence and terrorism.
December 1st, 2005 at 11:50 pmIn contrast to the emnity, pain, and hostility vented here on this post, I would like to leave a respectful and constructive message to the producers of the “Torture Is Not US” commercial.
I think the piece looks great, but at the end, instead of “Tell Cheney that torture is not us,” if there is time, I think the commercial would be more effective if the line read: “Tell the Vice-President, torture is not us!” Refering to him as merely “Cheney” is far too negative and dresses him down, thereby undermining the power that he does have to transparently change our policies. The question is his will to do so. This is about the integrity and honor of the office that he holds, as well as that of the country.
Only by respectfully challenging him and the oath that he has taken can he be forced to decide how far from the moral high ground he wants to stray.
To keep this short, I once head a quote:
“Those who lieth down with dogs, may sureth riseth with fleas.” Please keep it positive. Torture is simply not a just or effective response to “terrorism” because violence begets violence. These politicians are tarnishing the offices they hold and the only way to effect change is to demand they be held to the appropriate higher standard. Justice is born out of truth not slander. Keep up the good work and Thank You.
Peace.
Sincerely,
-LF
December 2nd, 2005 at 2:27 amI know all you intellectual “giants” are woried sick about the possible fate of the four peace “activists”…the ertstwhile named “Christian Peacemaker Teams”. How is this for “tortured” logic? Their group condemns the US and UK for their kidnappings. “If they US and UK were not at war in Iraq, we wouldn’t have had to go there. Thus,it was NOT the kidnappers fault – it was the evil US and UK.” I think more “peace activists” should participate in human shield peace efforts. P.S. You should be so lucky if the barbarians only put underwear on your head.
December 2nd, 2005 at 4:56 pmWhat’s your point MA? I understand that the peace activists are missing in Iraq, as other individuals have lost their lives over there and around the world trying to promote peace and prosperity for the poor especially in war. Since the kidnapped members of the Christian Peacemaker Team, Tom Fox, Norman Kember, James Loney and Harmeet Singh Sooden, occurred earlier this week, maybe some of us are not fully aware of it yet. See: http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1202-26.htm
Who are the barbarians? Since we both realize that putting “underwear on your head” doesn’t even begin to describe the torturing travesties that have occurred (see:
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1202-28.htm )
I’m curious as to whom you ascribe to that label.
And I have to agree with their ‘group’ (CPT), if the US (and UK) hadn’t started the war, they wouldn’t have necessarily been there, nor would we have lost 2110+ of our soldiers, 20,000+ innocent civilian losses (# not officially tracked; I wonder why?), and 100,000+ injured/maimed (and counting in all categories). For what? False pretenses.
Oh, and the ‘positive notes’? Same situation. The Iraqi’s were in far better physical circumstances before the war than now, like running water, waster removal, electricity, etc. Positive that the military is ‘trying’ to re-establish these services (at a nominal pace)? I’m thinking that they would have preferred intact homes to obliterated ones. Wouldn’t you?
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:30 pm[...] Even though it doesn’t work. [...]
December 4th, 2005 at 7:30 pmWhat pisses me off about Liberals is that while you condemn the U.S. for their “supposed†torture tactics, you seem to support the efforts of our enemy. When Daniel Pearl was beheaded a full year before we ever went into Iraq, did you comdemn that act of brutality? Forcing someone to wear pantyhose seems to pale in comparison. Whose side are you on anyway?
Comment by Randy
Some of the outrageous comments on this site by the members and the owners leave little doubt to the answer. These people absolutely eat up the Democrat party line that just happens to agree nearly point for point by the propaganda, hate and skewed logic put out by the terrorists themselves.
It’s Vietnam all over again. The traitors like Murtha, Kennedy, Pelosi, Boxer and the rest should be put in prison as a lesson to the useful idiots. It’s just not enough that they lose election after election.
December 5th, 2005 at 8:34 amWhat pisses me off about Liberals is that while you condemn the U.S. for their “supposed” torture tactics, you seem to support the efforts of our enemy.
Comment by Randy — December 1, 2005 @ 2:51 pm
If it seems so to you, it is clear you have not been paying attention.
And the U.S. are not using “supposed” torture tactics; detainees are actually being tortured.
One year after Abu Ghraib, torture continues
When Daniel Pearl was beheaded a full year before we ever went into Iraq, did you comdemn that act of brutality?
Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and killed in Pakistan. Hussein’s regime had nothing to do with his kidnap and subsequent death. His captors wanted some Pakistan nationals detained at Guantánamo to be released.
U.S. journalist Daniel Pearl is dead, officials confirm
The Daniel Pearl Foundation
And yes, I did think it was a brutal, senseless act.
Forcing someone to wear pantyhose seems to pale in comparison. Whose side are you on anyway?
Where did you get this idea? Would you take a look at these photos and tell me if pantyhoses are the worst thing happening to these detainess?
The Abu Ghraib Prison Photos
Photos of Iraqis Being Abused by US Personnel
The US military later admitted that most of the detainees at Abu Ghraib were ordinary, innocent Iraqis
Private contractor lifts the lid on systematic failures at Abu Ghraib jail
Army report says many ‘security’ detainees innocent
Whose side am I on? Not on the side of torturers or advocates of this and other equally barbaric, sadistic practices.
December 7th, 2005 at 1:36 amPrivate Scandal
September 27, 2005
Reservist Pfc. Lynndie England was found guilty of being in the wrong place, wrong time, and with the wrong crowd: The U. S. Army. In “Reservist convicted of abusing Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib†by David S. Cloud, England is toast. Meaning, for England, the scandal’s poster child, does this ends the chapter of the abuse scandal? Don’t hold your breathe. In this all-you-can-be Army, England took it at face value; she lived up to be the perfect trooper: Follow every order. And she did, albeit from her superior and one time lover, Pvt. Charles Craner Jr. What’s missing from this article by Mr. Cloud is that while England did not contest that she participated in the abuse, her defense lawyer argued that she and Craner were encouraged by military intelligence interrogators to mistreat the detainees, to get them to talk. Army investigative documents have revealed that none of the intelligence interrogators present at the crime scene have been charged connected to the abuse. To add justice—or salt—the closing comments by Capt. Chris Graveline, the lead prosecutor, “What soldier wouldn’t know that’s illegal?†When it comes to giving it to the “evildoers†where does one draw the line? This line: It pays to be camera shy
December 7th, 2005 at 6:13 pmWith Sugar on Top
September 29, 2005
An apology for Lynndie England, the sacrificial victim of the Iraq war and the conversion of Abu Ghraib prison from Saddam Hussein’s funhouse to the Bush/Rumsfeld’s Hotel Third Degree, is not forth coming to the ire of Richard Cohen. His article “After all this, who will apologize to Lynndie England?†oozed with logic, with rationality. And for those reasons, it ain’t going to happen. Too long have the Bush administration have dodged the bullets of accountability. Yes, everyone knows about the fabrication of the WMD evidences, the trumped up connection between Hussein and al-Qaeda. From our troops being “greeted†with flowers to Bush on the aircraft carrier declaring major combat over, the Geneva Conventions was reduced to party favorites by the neoconservative White House. Now that the death count of American troops tapped at 2000, don’t expect an apology for that either. Is Mr. Cohen whistling in the dark or just blowing smoke? It isn’t this question that demands an answer but a closer attention of the consequences in which our troops are expected to paid. Lynndie England may not deserve an apology but the entire American troops in Iraq do.
December 7th, 2005 at 6:15 pm[...] The basis of the McCain amendment is establishing the Army Field Manual on Intelligence Interrogation as the uniform standard for interrogation. That manual explicitly prohibits the use of so-called “coercive interrogation techniques.” As former Army interrogator Peter Bauer has written, “the standard interrogation techniques found in the US Army Field Manual 34-52 were far more effective than such abusive behavior as stress positions, sensory deprivation, and humiliation. We obtained more information – and more reliable information – with our basic skills than we did with even days of harsh treatment.” [...]
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Thanks for short yet informative article. It covers most of things I wanted to know on this topic…
September 8th, 2006 at 7:28 amAnother Ex-Interrogator Says Torture Doesn’t Work…
I was relieved to find I’m not the only ex-interrogator who thinks that much of the effort put into developing strange and unusual ways of handling detainees is a waste of time. I learned my lessons in the currrent war……
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