Podesta: In Support of Christmas Trees, In Opposition to Budget Cuts Targeting the Vulnerable
Podesta: In Support of Christmas Trees, In Opposition to Budget Cuts Targeting the Vulnerable
Tens of millions of Christians decorate Christmas trees each year to celebrate the marking of Jesus’ birth. They perform generous acts of kindness for their family, friends and the less fortunate, mindful of the Christian teaching that “faith without works is dead.”
House Speaker Dennis Hastert has decided to mark the season by loudly insisting that the Capitol’s decorated spruce be called a “Christmas tree,” as opposed to a “Holiday tree.” He is right on this point. It is a Christmas tree. And while the Speaker may consider his action a “work,” the message of Jesus means more.
If Speaker Hastert really wants to put Christ back into Christmas, he should start by joining a long list of religious leaders in supporting a budget that isn’t balanced on the back of the poorest and most vulnerable.
Before the House went on Thanksgiving break, it passed $50 billion in spending cuts that target millions of poor and working-class Americans. The budget’s Medicaid provisions “would allow state governments to impose co-payments even on the poorest beneficiaries for emergency room visits for non-emergency health problems and for drug prescriptions not on a list of preferred treatments.” The Congressional Budget Office estimated the House bill “would cut food stamp benefits by about $45 a month for 225,000 people” and that 40,000 children would lose their eligibility for free meals at school. At the same time, conservatives are seeking to “extend several of Mr. Bush’s biggest tax cuts, including those on stock dividends and capital gains” — over half of the benefits from those cuts go to people earning over $1 million per year.
Hastert should heed the true spirit of Christ by caring for the vulnerable. As Jesus reminds us in Luke 4:18-20, by following his example we can “bring good news to the poor.”
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“I went to Washington to challenge the soft bigotry of low expectations,†the president said in his campaign for reelection in September 2004. “It’s working. It’s making a difference.†It is one of those deadly lies, which, by sheer repetition, is at length accepted by large numbers of Americans as, perhaps, a rough approximation of the truth. But it is not the truth, and it is not an innocent misstatement of the facts. It is a devious appeasement of the heartache of the parents of the poor and, if it is not forcefully resisted and denounced, it is going to lead our nation even further in a perilous direction.
-Jonathan Kozol, The Shame of the Nation, September, 2005
December 2nd, 2005 at 4:50 pmyou have to understand… we all have to understand… if you’re poor and down on your luck in this country, it’s your own damn fault… if you’d get up off your lazy ass and get to work, you wouldn’t have to depend on the generosity of others… those who do well and get to partake of all the best that both life and this society have to offer can do so because they goddam well earned it through hard work and perseverance…
ok, now that i’ve gotten that little bit of snarkiness out of my system, i can point out that right up at the top of the agenda of this criminal administration is the destruction of any implied or explicit social contract… they’ve been extremely successful in their lobotomization efforts so far and, no matter how low they sink in the polls, they’re not about to stop now…
And, yes, I DO take it personally
December 2nd, 2005 at 4:54 pm“Before the House went on Thanksgiving break, it passed $50 billion in spending cuts that target millions of poor and working-class Americans.”
Don’t forget voting themselves another raise.
December 2nd, 2005 at 4:57 pmThe sad thing is that the head of this disasterous administration had everything handed to him on a silver platter. If his name was anything but George Bush he’d be an unemployed drunk.
In regards to this “Christmas Tree” ruckus, I wonder if any of these people have ever read Jeremiah 10:3-4, “For the customs of the people are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter.”
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:05 pmThey are blind.
They don’t see that taking food from the mouths of children is bad. Defending Christmas may be okay, but isn’t that what hard-spanking James Dobson and other religious geniuses of his ilk are for?
They’ll defend marriage, Christmas… anything but people.
Republicans’ attitudes toward poverty are roughly akin to thinking that when a man is drowning you should throw him an anvil – because the problem isn’t that he’s drowning, it’s that he’s not motivated to swim.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:06 pmI’m liberal. I don’t mind Christas trees, or Christmas, or calling it whatever the hell you want to call it.
But as far as the political message about those less fortuntate here… my Catholic education recalls the following:
“Whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren, that you do unto me.”
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:11 pm“those who do well and get to partake of all the best that both life and this society have to offer can do so because they goddam well earned it through hard work and perseverance…”
Then how do you explain people like Bush? He ran every business he was part of into the ground. He didn’t work hard. He couldn’t find oil in Texas for god’s sake.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:11 pmIs that the new tree? It looks sickly. The White House staff may be trying to say something pairing all that gold with red but it’s just nasty.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:18 pmThey tried, Spudge…DEMS and REPS…
The HOUSE passed their raise (217 – 215)…A cushy $3100 increase in pay…Cutting $50 Billion in cuts for the poor…
While the SENATE in a 92-6 vote, took theirs off the table…
Here’s who voted against the freeze in the Senate…
Sens. Kit Bond, R-Mo.
Richard Lugar, R-Ind.
Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M.
Paul Sarbanes, D-Md.
Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii
James Jeffords, I-Vt.
Sens. Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga.
Jon Corzine, D-N.J., did not vote.
Yep…THEY Really care about the common people…and IDIOTS actually voted for these people?
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:18 pmPeople can make a fuss about businesses choosing the more inclusive “Happy Holiday†theme over “Merry Christmas†if they want. We are still a predominantly Christian nation today but our religious identity is not as homogenous as it used to be. At the onset of the commercialization of Christmas businesses shrewdly perceived an opportunity to make money on a religious observance. As more immigrants means our religious identity changes businesses will accommodate the differences for the same result, an opportunity to make money.
Businesses are not motivated to maintain cultural identity dominance; people upset that businesses make decisions based on the chance to turn a profit are.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:21 pmWell, look at it this way…What else is working for them?
Now it’s Christmas Tree or Holiday Tree…
Who gives a shit! Let it be whatever the individual wants it to be…Too many people are hung up on this BS and losing focus on the more important matters…
But that is THE WAY of this administration…Let’s make something trivial into a Congressional issue…
WHAT an IDIOT!!!
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:23 pm#2
Do you think that the daughter of a defense contractor who’s company provides faulty body armor to our troops in Iraq deserves a $10 million party?
UPDATED: 50 Cent, the War Profiteer and the $10 million Bat Mitzvah
http://www.gnn.tv/articles/1915/UPDATED_50_Cent_the_War_Profiteer_and_the_10_million_Bat_Mitzvah
Exclusive Photos! Mitzvahpalooza!
http://tabloidbaby.blogspot.com/2005/11/exclusive-photos-mitzvahpalooza.html
Funny how timing is everything.
Did this 13 year old girl work hard for her money?
Do you think the fact that this defense contractor is a crony means he worked hard to get his money?
I would say nope and nope.
I am not against rich people, I just don’t think everyone of them worked hard to get their money.
Just as you can see from the other thread, not every liberal is anti-death penalty. Just as not every conservative is anti-abortion.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:24 pmThe whole phony religiosity thing is the big story. It is glaringly obvious. Many politicians spit in the face of the values they so highly proclaim. What succkers people can be…
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:25 pmLesly,
You’re such an idiot. The founding fathers were children of the enlightment, and largely deist. The ‘christmas’ celebration was not only banned in colonial america, it was a day where congress was in session.
Ignorance is bliss, and you like all republicans remain blindly blissful and ineffectual.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:25 pmIt’s just so much easier to sneer and hiss “welfare queens,” then it is to actually think about the circumstances people have to live under. Thank Reagan. He made okay to be callous.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:26 pm“The whacko’s get their information through the Christian right, Christian radio, mail, the internet and telephone trees. … Simply put, we want to bring out the whacko’s to vote against something and make sure the rest of the public lets the whole thing slip past them.”
Those are the words of Michael Scanlon, former press secretary to the pious but indicted Congressman Tom Delay and top executive at Capitol Campaign Strategies, a public relations firm in Washington D.C.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:26 pmSomething you probably havent heard about. Within the executive branch is an office called OFFICE FOR GOVERNMENT ETHICS.
It hasnt been staffed for the past two years. Isnt that about the time that “ethics” disappeared from government?
They cant find anyone within the administration to take the chair, too many ethics problems, and they cant find anyone outside the executive branch that would touch it with a ten foot pole.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:28 pmI like the term “Christmas Tree”, but I’m not Christian.
Whether it’s here or in Africa the main casualty of radical “rugged individualism” and Republican based social policy is unconditional compassion. The “me” people will always ask Why a person is downtrodden before they ask how or if they can help. It puts the Republicans below the beasts and dogs.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:28 pmWell said, John.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:31 pmRyan Neat wrote:
Hi Ryan! Back to calling me names whenever I say something slightly displeasing, or something slightly displeasing to you.
Reading comprehension and context are your friends. Have a Merry Christmas.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:31 pm16 Ryan
I have emailed that quote with an explanation to every online church in Sugarland. These are the nuggets that destroy crooks.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:32 pmActually the ‘christmas tree’ isn’t christian at all. It’s pagan in origin.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:44 pmEasy, Ryan; she actually made a pretty valid point! Should I take away the coffee now? ;)
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:53 pm#4 – Nice passage. It seems to me that these pious men have chosen false idols to worship. Their goal is to cast any who disagree with them as sacreligious and heathen. Our goal should be to point out that, by their actions, we shall know who they really are.
December 2nd, 2005 at 5:55 pmI dont think the Christmas tree was a pagan symbol at all. In fact I read in the bible, I forgot where, that the people would bring a tree down from the hills, decorate it, and sit it in a place of prominence for all to enjoy.
Dont sound pagan to me.
December 2nd, 2005 at 6:00 pmHastert can have his Christmas tree, right up his ass.
December 2nd, 2005 at 6:17 pmAll this fuss about what to call a tree when the real message is Santas birthday , hail to the mighty dollar , I do think it is big enough for homeless to shelter
December 2nd, 2005 at 6:23 pmI must admit I am rather puzzled. I would think that religious conservatives would be trying to separate all the commercial aspects of the American Christmas–trees, lights, yard decorations, etc–from the real celebration of the Christ mass. By insisting on calling for a Christmas tree rather than for the more commercial “holiday” name they are conflating and submerging the celibration of a holy day with its crass commercialization. I think they are crazy! They should be on the opposite side of this created “war on Christmas”!
December 2nd, 2005 at 6:27 pm#3 If they did vote themsleves another raise, it can’t take effect until November 2006 when “an election of Representatives shall have intervened.” (US Constitution, Amendment #27)
December 2nd, 2005 at 6:28 pmThank you, Mr. Podesta, for speaking the truth and calling out the hypocrisy our leaders are exhibiting. Please do not stop speaking out, you are appreciated.
December 2nd, 2005 at 6:30 pmPablo,
It was in fact pagan in origin:
OK, how to put this delicately..?
Christmas tree.
Wreath.
Now think Anatomy…, men / women stuff.
(yes, I know: collective eeewww from the audience.)
December 2nd, 2005 at 6:32 pmKinda taints it, doesn’t it… :)
If the Radical Right keeps this up, I may have to celebrate
December 2nd, 2005 at 6:38 pmHanukkah instead. And I’m not even Jewish.
Jimbo,
Just think (ala Adam Sandler)
December 2nd, 2005 at 6:53 pm8 Crazy Nights…. :)
“#3 If they did vote themsleves another raise, it can’t take effect until November 2006 when “an election of Representatives shall have intervened.†(US Constitution, Amendment #27)”
Wayne,
I am starting to think these guys don’t know what the Constitution is. :/
December 2nd, 2005 at 7:42 pmA little Christmas Tree history:
How it All Got Started
Long before the advent of Christianity, plants and trees that remained green all year had a special meaning for people in the winter. Just as people today decorate their homes during the festive season with pine, spruce, and fir trees, ancient peoples hung evergreen boughs over their doors and windows. In many countries it was believed that evergreens would keep away witches, ghosts, evil spirits, and illness.
http://www.historychannel.com/exhibits/holidays/christmas/trees.html
December 2nd, 2005 at 8:02 pmIn my family, half-Jewish, half-Christian ancestry (but determined atheism), we usually call it a Hannukah Bush! And often topped it with a Star of David.
December 2nd, 2005 at 8:23 pmToo bad the word Bush now has such evil connotations…
Dear John – If the government poverty programs of the last FORTY YEARS are so effective, why is there sooooo much poverty?? (Is it the “evil corporations” or the “greedy Repubs”) How many trillions have been spent subsidizing absent sperm donors and other “bad choices”? (Everyone makes mistakes, but smart people learn from their stupidity) To see the generational shift of bad behaviour – it’s sickening. Can you imagine what kind of job Jesse Jackson would have if every black child received a quality education and a great job? He is but one example of people who cash in on “victimization”. He can’t survive without poverty – well, maybe he could if he could find his church.
Most generous people I know – Dems or Reps – donate to private charities to help the less fortunate. Probably because they are more effective, have less bureacracy and are in touch with those they help.
Thank you, John, for your spiritual input. So appropriate for the Holiday Season. (This from a party that relishes making fun of religion – will wonder never cease!!!) Final question: What part of Think “Progress” is non-partisan??? I couldn’t seem to locate it… anywhere…
December 2nd, 2005 at 8:23 pmChristmas has got to be the worst Sin the church ever committed on a species. The rollicking soul less bstrds who call themselves christians literally ought to have their testicles ripped out. If there is any sense of beauty it is that there once was a man who walked this earth who stood for something. Principles and Integrity with a strong mix of knowing who he was and how wrong the great many were. his power of example shines today but not amongst the gutless wonders who call themselves christian conservatives. Personally, I would love to put a poison snake up all their worthless rear ends.
December 2nd, 2005 at 8:32 pmBobbytoo – that should make all the Ky jelly pepople very happy!!! Do practice safe-snake-sex!!
December 2nd, 2005 at 8:50 pmhey mighty
December 2nd, 2005 at 9:10 pmya got me on that. maybe I should have used a poison dart stick
Mr. Kevin P. Reilly, Jr.
Chairman & CEO
Lamar Advertising Co.
5551 Corporate Blvd.
Baton Rouge, LA 70808
Dear Mr. Reilly:
We are writing on behalf of the Democratic National Committee to demand that Lamar honor a contract its Huntington, West Virginia office entered with the DNC for placement of two billboard advertisements in Portsmouth, Ohio. These advertisements accurately referred to a statement made by U.S. Rep. Jean Schmidt (R-Ohio) on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives attacking a respected Member of Congress and decorated war veteran. The advertisements were aimed at informing her constituents about this statement, and called on Rep. Schmidt to cease such attacks.
The DNC was told by your Huntington regional manager that Lamar is refusing to honor the contract because the advertisements are “too negative.” In addition to refusing to honor the contract for the Portsmouth billboards, Lamar, through its Cincinnati office, refused to accept the same advertisement for placement on billboards in Cincinnati.
While Lamar’s form contract reserves to the company the right to refuse to run a billboard advertisement, Lamar’s conduct in this instance raises serious questions about whether the company is unlawfully or improperly using corporate resources to favor or benefit the Republican Party or Rep. Schmidt. Your regional manager was unable to cite any company policy providing any objective standards or criteria for rejecting political or advocacy advertising.
Rep. Schmidt’s constituents are entitled to know what she is saying on the floor of the U.S. House and the DNC has a right to tell them. Lamar should either offer a credible reason for its efforts to censor the Democratic Party or else should live up to its contractual obligation and let the DNC put up its billboard and let the people of Rep. Schmidt’s district hear the truth.
Please let us know immediately whether Lamar intends to honor its contract–and if not, why. Fairness and the public interest demand no less.
Sincerely,
Joseph Sandler, General Counsel, Democratic National Committee
Amanda LaForge, Chief Counsel Democratic National Committee
Sign with Joe and Amanda now:
December 2nd, 2005 at 11:12 pm
“Final question: What part of Think “Progress†is non-partisan??? I couldn’t seem to locate it… anywhere…
Comment by mighty aphrodite ”
The part that lets retarded whores like you post unchecked… Something you won’t find on those reichwing fascist sites that you participate in there Mz Hindrocket.
December 2nd, 2005 at 11:29 pm“Everyone makes mistakes, but smart people learn from their stupidity” MightyHermaphrodite
I agree, that’s why I know you’re stupid. You never learn from anything that’s posted, or the previous lessons of history.
For instance poverty has decreased under every democrat since Johnson, and it’s increased under every republican president since reagan. The problem isn’t the poverty programs, it’s that republicans underfund it while destroying the economy so they can have an excuse to not provide it anymore. You say we’ve spent trillions, that’s a lie. We’ve spent ~800billion on poverty programs since Johnson (compare that to 200billion for Iraq, from which we’ve gotten nothing). And when Clinton left office, poverty was only 11%, versus 30% in 1950.
Removing 2/3rds of those in poverty were DIRECTLY the result of democrats and government programs. Before then the ‘charity’ programs you suggest had driven the poverty rates up to 40%. You’re an idiot who has learned nothing from history, ironically you’re correct that as a result you ARE stupid.
December 2nd, 2005 at 11:34 pm42: Ryan: you beat me to it. I’m mostly a lurker, but most of the “liberal” blogs/sites allow free dicussion and trolls (unfortunately), while the wingnut sites don’t. What’s really funny is certain folks on Fox “News” keep slamming those “leftwing smear merchants”. I have yet to see a “smear” on TP or MMFA or other progressive sites.
Happy Holidays! (just to PO the “war on christmas” folks.. haha)
December 2nd, 2005 at 11:41 pmBush to children who live at the poverty level and above:
“I know you don’t have much. I know I’ve taken your mommie and daddies jobs from them. I know I have made it impossible for your parents to make ends meet”.
“TOO BAD! MERRY F%&#IN CHRISTMAS! I’m taking your food away, nah, nah”….
December 2nd, 2005 at 11:45 pmI wonder what Mighty Aphrodite will say when she gets wind of this:
For misleading the American people, and launching the most foolish war since Emperor Augustus in 9 B.C sent his legions into Germany and lost them, Bush deserves to be impeached and, once he has been removed from office, put on trial along with the rest of the president’s men. If convicted, they’ll have plenty of time to mull over their sins.
–Martin van Creveld, only non-American author on the U.S. Army’s required reading list for officers.
Costly Withdrawal Is the Price To Be Paid for a Foolish War
December 3rd, 2005 at 1:51 am“If Speaker Hastert really wants to put Christ ba
The GOP has worked very hard to portray itself as the party of values, cozying up to Religious Right leaders — predominantly self-described evangelical Christians. Why then is protecting the name “Christmas” in “Christmas Tree” more important than…
December 3rd, 2005 at 7:07 am“Hastert should heed the true spirit of Christ by caring for the vulnerable. As Jesus reminds us in Luke 4:18-20, by following his example we can “bring good news to the poor.â€
I’m always amused when the Filthy Left trots out the name of a deity they don’t believe ever existed when trying to justify more raids on the public coffers. Christ also said that those that don’t work don’t eat. He also said to beware the Pharisees that stand on the corner announcing to the world how great and wonderful they are. He was talking about Liberals. That reminds me, Kerry didn’t give squat to charity in 2004.
December 3rd, 2005 at 10:51 amIn my family, half-Jewish, half-Christian ancestry (but determined atheism), we usually call it a Hannukah Bush! And often topped it with a Star of David.
Too bad the word Bush now has such evil connotations…
Comment by SKdeA
Kind of like the words liberal and gay.
December 3rd, 2005 at 10:52 amwonder what Mighty Aphrodite will say when she gets wind of this:
For misleading the American people, and launching the most foolish war [blah, blah}
Comment by Gregor Samsa
She’ll probably laugh in your face for daring to link to the “Forward”.
December 3rd, 2005 at 10:57 am“The HOUSE passed their raise (217 – 215)…A cushy $3100 increase in pay…Cutting $50 Billion in cuts for the poor…â€
Damn…I haven’t seen a raise in 5 years. :-(
Comment by Nevada Swag – Dem Stickers
Who’s fault is that?
December 3rd, 2005 at 10:58 amSo now chief minister of propaganda Baghdad John Podesta is claiming Jesus was in favor of US federal government welfare handouts? ROFL
These crazy liberals will say anything.
December 3rd, 2005 at 11:02 amI wonder why Gregor posted an irrelevant quote by some author who doesn’t like Bush in a thread about Christmas.
December 3rd, 2005 at 11:04 amI’ve got one leg up on your CHRISTmas tree, troll queers. WIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. AHHHhhhh nice, hot and steamy. haaahaaahaa Careful you don’t get none on ya! phfff phff pff
December 3rd, 2005 at 11:48 amI-RIGHT-I and wwallace, I like all those remarks about the “filthy left” and such. I have a historical quote for you:
“To be like Christ is to a be a Christian.”
Those were the last words of William Penn.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but some liberals here would say that you two hypocritical dipshits suddenly feel the Holy Ghost moveing in you for a change, why don’t you spend the rest of the year giving Christianity a shot? I mean, not me, as I am just another rightwing dipshit like yourselves who only quotes Biblical verses or make reference’s thereof when I need to feel better about my nitwit president or my shitty life.
Hey, buddies, what’s your take on that fat-assed Dennis Hastert? He is one complete asshole, isn’t he? Kind of like Cunningham and Tom DeLay, huh?
December 3rd, 2005 at 11:51 amCorrect me if I’m wrong, but some liberals here would say that you two hypocritical dipshits suddenly feel the Holy Ghost moveing in you for a change, why don’t you spend the rest of the year giving Christianity a shot?
Comment by Joe Shit the Ragman
Why are Christians hypocritical when we give you the bad news along with the Good News? Now go, and sin no more. Loser.
December 3rd, 2005 at 12:30 pmActually, to be historically accurate, the tree is called a Yule tree and stems from pagan celebration. Romans placed Jesus’ birth on December 25th because they had been celebrating the birth of Mithras (Dec. 25) for centuries and simply replaced Mithras with Jesus.
Oh, I forgot, this is America. There is no history before America.
December 3rd, 2005 at 12:57 pmI-RIGHT-I.
December 3rd, 2005 at 12:58 pmEver Been In Hell?
Well, Well if not, May I suggest To You To Learn And Get use to It.
It Might make Your Afterlife a little more Comfortable.
Looks like I-RIGHT-I is feeling real Christian again today. Conservative Christian. Calling me Joe Shit the Ragman in #60. Makes me feel bad after all the times I’ve helped him clarify his nazi-assed postitions.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but some of you liberals here would suggest that if he had shit for brains, he wouldn’t have enough to stink. I mean, I know better. He does too have just enough to stink.
I-RIGHT-I: Your mamma, MF.
December 3rd, 2005 at 1:38 pm“So now chief minister of propaganda Baghdad John Podesta is claiming Jesus was in favor of US federal government welfare handouts? ROFL
These crazy liberals will say anything.
Comment by wwallace”
“Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.” Matthew 25:46
There are many more, but jesus in fact did say that people should give to the poor. He also said the rich had a GREATER obligation to give more. Look up mark 12:41-43 some time…
The reality is you’ve already said you aren’t a christian, so why are you such a stupid monkey who lectures on christian values? Clearly you know nothing of religious or christian values.
December 3rd, 2005 at 2:01 pm“but jesus in fact did say that people should give to the poor.”
A recent study showed that red states give much more to charity than blue states, proving once again that conservatives are much more generous and giving than liberals.
December 3rd, 2005 at 2:03 pmRed State generosity – the evidence:
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/000839.htm
December 3rd, 2005 at 2:14 pmFair warning to any public official who renames a Christmas tree a “holiday tree”: You may get a call from one of hundreds of lawyers lined up by Christian legal groups to defend Christmas against those they say are bent on purging it from the holiday season.
Two groups, Liberty Counsel, affiliated with Rev. Jerry Falwell, and the Alliance Defense Fund, say they have almost 1,600 lawyer-volunteers between them ready to battle what some conservative Christians view as a secular movement against nativity scenes, Christmas trees and even the greeting “Merry Christmas.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/13310664.htm
That’s right losers. No more Mr. Nice Christian. We were kicking heathen ass before most of your tribe left the jungle.
December 3rd, 2005 at 2:17 pmClearly you know nothing of religious or christian values.
Comment by Ryan “kick me” Neat
So says Ryan “The Homo Hindu” Neat, expert on everything Christian because he once went inside a seminary.
December 3rd, 2005 at 2:19 pmLooks like I-RIGHT-I is feeling real Christian again today. Conservative Christian. Calling me Joe Shit the Ragman….
I-RIGHT-I: Your mamma, MF.
Comment by Joe Sixpack
I bet you haven’t heard that one before have you Joe?
December 3rd, 2005 at 2:21 pmOh, I’ve heard it I-RIGHT-I and I must confess, you really know how to hurt a guy. I mean, if I wasn’t a dumbassed, conservative redneck I would really be offended anyway.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but dipshit facist-conservative pricks like me and you are so thick-skinned nothing really bothers us. That’s cause we have no class and no sensitivity to others.
How’s your fatassed mamma, MF?
December 3rd, 2005 at 2:28 pmI mean, if I was a liberal here I would say that about your mamma. Those are not my words of course, but only what some of the lefties here are thinking.
December 3rd, 2005 at 2:32 pmI mean, if I was a liberal here I would say that about your mamma.
Comment by Joe Sixpack in the Cans
I know. One can only wonder what you say when you’re not here. My guess is a lot of “yes dear”.
December 3rd, 2005 at 2:51 pmWell, I gotta admit that you got me on the “yes dear” stuff. I mean, maybe so when she’s around, but not always.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but when I’m alone out in the garage, it’s “HELL, NO!” or “Up yours, bitch!” That’s why I like hanging out at the bar with the guys. Drinking beer and pinching the asses on the uglies down there.
December 3rd, 2005 at 3:02 pmWhen did “Goodwill towards men” get replaced with “Friend or foe?”
December 3rd, 2005 at 3:15 pmCorrect me if I’m wrong, but when I’m alone out in the garage, it’s “HELL, NO!†or “Up yours, bitch!†That’s why I like hanging out at the bar with the guys. Drinking beer and pinching the asses on the uglies down there.
Comment by Joe Sixpakkk
A man’s garage is his castle. I have a fridge, a 200w/ch stereo, TV, a 2.5 ton truck and a sign that says “He-man Woman Haters Club, No Dames Allowed”…..and I’m not even married.
I don’t care much for bars unless it’s game day. The uglies give my willie the chills. That’s one of the reasons I got divorced. But that was before I decided to use my powers for good and not evil.
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:10 pmMizzWrong,
Hehe, you’re such an idiot. Do you plan to ride the flying dragons that will smack the stars from the heaven onto the earth like the bible says?
Yeah, sure, keep deluding yourself into thinking you’re a christian or even a human being. I see no evidence of either trait.
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:11 pmwwallace links to MMoron, the dumbest republican blogger in the world. Not only has that moron been debunked more time than paris hilton, she’s known as the biggest hypocrite in the world. She complained about her personal information being posted on the web recently, ironically after having posted someone else’s personal information because she didn’t like a private email they sent to her. She’s as about as retarded as the monkey boy who linked to her :()
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:13 pm“A man’s garage is his castle. I have a fridge, a 200w/ch stereo, TV, a 2.5 ton truck and a sign that says “He-man Woman Haters Club, No Dames Allowedâ€â€¦..and I’m not even married.” MizzWrong
And did anyone ever doubt that MizzWrong was single? Bahaha, that’s the most OBVIOUS thing in the world. I could tell from your first neurotic post about women that you were single there LOSER!
“I don’t care much for bars unless it’s game day. The uglies give my willie the chills. That’s one of the reasons I got divorced. But that was before I decided to use my powers for good and not evil.
Comment by MizzWrong”
Translation, I’m a retarded fat and stupid redneck who repulses women – so therefore I avoid them by pretending they’re all ugly or lesbians.
As for your ‘powers’, bahaha, the only power you have is the power of ignorance that lets you create a temporary alternative reality that lets you pretend you aren’t a stupid single man who hates women because he’s sexually confused.
How funny you fit the same psyche profile as wwallace, randy and ned. All single (mostly divorced) ugly men who want to control women because of your own ineptitude and sexual inadequacies…
Hehe, very funny, and EXACTLY how I had presented you to the world there MizzWrong…
See that’s what’s funny about reichwingers, they THINK they’re masking their inadequacies, but the world can see them for the truly pathetic losers that they are…
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:18 pmWhen did “Goodwill towards men†get replaced with “Friend or foe?â€
Comment by TheToonGuy
Luk 2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
Luk 2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Luk 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
The goodwill and peace was a gift from God in the form of an infant. The “good will towards men” from men is a liberal invention. There can be no good will toward the enemies of God or love save the presentation of the Gospel and, even then we’re not to throw it out indiscriminately to the piggies. Like Ryan for example.
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:20 pmMizzWrong, if you are divorced, you better get used to never masturbating and you better plan to never marry again, otherwise you AREN’T a Christian. Of course if you do live this way, it could explain your sexual frustration, and why you’re such a lunatic.
Mark 10
10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this.
11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her.
12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”
Now MizzWrong, what retarded thing were you saying about me not knowing anything about Christianity? Clearly I know and understand more than you EVER will there, you philistine!
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:21 pmRyan wants to put Christians and Jews into ovens, just like Hitler did.
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:29 pmMizzWrong,
Jesus was the example of how God wanted us to treat each other. The only ‘invention’ is the one that hateful reichwing philistines like you created, of an EVIL jesus. He never existed, yet you pretend like he did.
Jesus was a pascifist and a man who taught, love, charity, generosity and forgiveness (that IS good will toward men), and he chastised those among him who didn’t share those traits (men like you). The fact that you’ve clearly never read the whole bible, and can only cherry pick the passages that you bible study gives you to reinforce their hatemongering shows why republicans have the reputation for being intellectually lazy…
Also, Luke 2:14 was incorrectly translated from the original greek, but being that you’re an unscholarly texas redneck, you wouldn’t know that. The correct translation of the original greek reads as:
“Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among men of God’s good pleasure or choosing.” That is, there will be peace on earth among men who have God’s good will in their hearts.”
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:29 pmMizzWrong,
Never dick around about religion with someone who’s attended seminary. Not only do we know more about religion, we know more about its meaning. You by contrast know neither anything about religion, nor its meaning. You’re the true defintion of the delusional fool.
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:31 pm“Ryan wants to put Christians and Jews into ovens, just like Hitler did.
Comment by wwallace”
I’m a pascifist and against killing in any form – you by contrast call for ‘killing’ of someone daily. So stop projecting your retarded fantasies onto other people you sicko passive aggressive pervert.
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:33 pmRyan isn’t a pacifist, any more than his idol Hitler was a pacifist. Fascists like Hitler and Ryan are liars.
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:35 pmAnd MizzWrong and WhackoWallace, you talk about christian values, yet the poverty programs that give to the poor are christian, whereas christ taught that people like you will be separated from the ‘good christians’, and sent to hell.
The Sheep and the Goats Matthew 25:31-46
Jesus, on another occasion, told a story about sheep and goats. He said that when he returns, he will separate people as a man would separate his sheep from his goats.
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:35 pmThose pleasing to God are compared to sheep. They are pleasing because they were willing to share with those who were in need. Jesus said they had given food to him when he was hungry, a drink when he was thirsty, and clothing to him when he needed it. They had visited him when he was sick and in prison.
The people didn’t remember doing these things for Jesus, but he replied, “Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.”
“Ryan isn’t a pacifist, any more than his idol Hitler was a pacifist. Fascists like Hitler and Ryan are liars.
Comment by wwallace”
Just because you believe a delusion Whacko, it doesn’t make that delusion true, but it does make you clinically insane :()
You advocate Hitler policies, I reject them. That makes you like hitler, and me like ghandi.
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:44 pmHey Whacko, why the silence on the religious things I post. Just because you attack me, it won’t change the facts I’ve posted. You’re a lying anti-religious loser, who wants to put all of the liberal religious people in ovens, and I proved it. HITLERESQUE LOSER!
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:46 pmRyan advocates Hitler policies, I reject them.
December 3rd, 2005 at 4:48 pmI wonder if there are trolls in heaven.
December 3rd, 2005 at 5:32 pmYou know what really amuses me about these Jeezus freaks? None of them are actually doing what Jesus taught, and as a consequence of that they aren’t going to heven, they are going to the hot place. Whats worse, is they want to drag others down with them. How many times did Jesus mention gays? 0 How many times did he mention that Usary was the greatest of sins… innumerable.
December 3rd, 2005 at 8:10 pm“Jesus freaks” is as bigoted as “kikes”.
Jennty would no doubt fire up the ovens again, if she had her way.
Jennty, is it your assertion that if Jesus did not specifically mention some behavior that is condemned elsewhere in the Bible, then that behavior is therefore acceptable?
December 3rd, 2005 at 8:17 pmfrankly
December 3rd, 2005 at 8:32 pmBush
Rice
Cheney
And a whole slew of Rightwing whackos need to be hanged in the public square the way they did to that tyrant who ran that Joint in some old european country. Why? Because these people have helped to commit MASS MURDER!
BETTER YET, HAVE ALL OF THEIR BALLS, DRIPPING WITH THEIR BLACK BLOOD HANGING FROM THEIR BEELZEBUB CHRISTMAS TREES.
December 3rd, 2005 at 8:34 pmbobbytoo has committed mass murder.
December 3rd, 2005 at 8:41 pmI wonder if there are trolls in heaven.
Comment by TheToonGuy
If I were you I wouldn’t worry about it.
December 4th, 2005 at 12:17 pmSo, we kill hundreds of thousands of living things – yes, a tree is a living thing – for our own brief amusement and then have the gall to fight over what it’s called??? Here’s a thought – let’s call it senseless killing. Would be more beautiful to leave the trees in the forest, where they belong.
December 4th, 2005 at 3:59 pmTo #56 You guys really should read your own book and not leave it to we Atheists to point our your ignornace every time. Read and weep:
Deuteronomy
December 4th, 2005 at 4:05 pmChapter 15
1 “At the end of every seven-year period you shall have a relaxation of debts,
2 which shall be observed as follows. Every creditor shall relax his claim on what he has loaned his neighbor; he must not press his neighbor, his kinsman, because a relaxation in honor of the LORD has been proclaimed.
3 You may press a foreigner, but you shall relax the claim on your kinsman for what is yours.
4 Nay, more! since the LORD, your God, will bless you abundantly in the land he will give you to occupy as your heritage, there should be no one of you in need.
5 If you but heed the voice of the LORD, your God, and carefully observe all these commandments which I enjoin on you today,
6 you will lend to many nations, and borrow from none; you will rule over many nations, and none will rule over you, since the LORD, your God, will bless you as he promised.
7 If one of your kinsmen in any community is in need in the land which the LORD, your God, is giving you, you shall not harden your heart nor close your hand to him in his need.
8 Instead, you shall open your hand to him and freely lend him enough to meet his need.
9 Be on your guard lest, entertaining the mean thought that the seventh year, the year of relaxation, is near, you grudge help to your needy kinsman and give him nothing; else he will cry to the LORD against you and you will be held guilty.
10 When you give to him, give freely and not with ill will; for the LORD, your God, will bless you for this in all your works and undertakings.
11 The needy will never be lacking in the land; that is why I command you to open your hand to your poor and needy kinsman in your country.
12 “If your kinsman, a Hebrew man or woman, sells himself to you, he is to serve you for six years, but in the seventh year you shall dismiss him from your service, a free man.
13 When you do so, you shall not send him away empty-handed,
14 but shall weight him down with gifts from your flock and threshing floor and wine press, in proportion to the blessing the LORD, your God, has bestowed on you.
15 For remember that you too were once slaves in the land of Egypt, and the LORD, your God, ransomed you. That is why I am giving you this command today.
16 If, however, he tells you that he does not wish to leave you, because he is devoted to you and your household, since he fares well with you,
17 you shall take an awl and thrust it through his ear into the door, and he shall then be your slave forever. Your female slave, also, you shall treat in the same way.
18 You must not be reluctant to let your slave go free, since the service he has given you for six years was worth twice a hired man’s salary; then also the LORD, your God, will bless you in everything you do.
oh, and by the way…
religion=superstition.
December 4th, 2005 at 4:59 pmerrr, wally, or m.a., or any other righty troll,
you’ve still never answered my question:
when do republicans take accountability? 15 years? 20 years? how about when there is no longer a republican party worth a spit? is that finally when republicans will take accountability?
…and do you REALLY believe jesus would condone the persecution of anyone, let alone homosexuals?
and, oh yea, what about the war? does jesus condone that also?
December 4th, 2005 at 5:47 pmwell there you have it. no answer from the trolls.
looks like we never get accountability.
or maybe they can’t admit the real answers to my questions. that would undermine their whole agenda.
December 4th, 2005 at 6:23 pmtrouble with most Robotic Republican skanks is they think they have a handle on some idea of God Christ Christianity and worse. What they hold however is misery and insecurity as their primary secular God First and then some puked out idea of something they call God or Christ or whatever next. These people are like the t.rds on the planes with expectations of Virgins only worse. At least those lunatics made no secret of their lunacy. Republican Conservative Rightwingers are perhaps the worst poison the earth has ever known yet these lunatics parade around as if they belonged somewhere in a dark holes in their minds pretending normalcy. My Opinion. No single Group of Rightwingers even have THE RIGHT to define anything about christmas let alone tell the rest of us what we should or should not believe. Give these Rightwingers Mats and let them bow their heads to mecca. No difference at all.
December 4th, 2005 at 6:59 pmwwallace,
i’m still waiting.
what’s your answer?
when will republicans begin to take accountability?
would jesus condone war?
would jesus condone persecution of homosexuals?
i find your silence to be very telling.
the fact that you’ll still insult others here while not answering a direct set of questions does seem to suggest that either you don’t know the answers…
…or you’re afraid of the answers.
which is it?
December 4th, 2005 at 9:26 pmIt’s a christmas not a holiday tree? Nonsense. If anything it is part of earlier traditions that have been hijacked by Christianity.
To see just how much of Christmas tradition has been hijacked from elsewhere, see this.
Enjoy your yuletide glass of psychedelic reindeer urine…
December 4th, 2005 at 10:31 pmhey i-right
December 5th, 2005 at 9:30 amdo you jerk off to billy mays commercials because you imagine the beard tickling the back of your neck, or because the screaming reminds you of all the different “uncles” your mom entertained?
Hey tralfaz,
Chances are you are my bastard kid but no Christmas for you again this year.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:45 am(Matthew 5:9) “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God”
Hate breeds hate, discord breeds discord.
(Galatians 6:7) “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.”
Let’s all calm down, give ourselves over to the fact that none of us is absolutely right, and remember that we should treat one another as we ourselves wish to be treated…even those with whom we most vociferously disagree.
Please, for the sake of your imperfect souls, learn to practice tolerance and be slow to anger; and remember that only one perfect human has ever walked the face of this great gift called Earth.
Lastly, can we please get rid of the “God Bless America” stickers? What about the other 5.7+ billion of God’s children? Arrogance and exceptionalism are not productive values.
Peace be unto you all.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:33 pmShame shame fighting about who says what about tree. Think about little kids and the poor who will have a bleat Xmas. and more days to follow .WILLthe congress have bigger stocking hanging for the childern and grandchildern with thier pay raise? No one seems to care why we celebrate any more. Bah hunbug.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:59 pmLastly, can we please get rid of the “God Bless America†stickers? What about the other 5.7+ billion of God’s children? Arrogance and exceptionalism are not productive values.
Comment by Saddened Soul
That was really stupid. Arrogance and exceptionalism? We have a tradition long standing of asking God’s blessing as do other Christian nations. Without us, the Evangelical Christians and our nations the rest of the world is consigned to going to hell in a handbasket.
Here is some additional arrogance and exceptionalism “christian” liberals don’t think much of.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:11 pmYou guys ever notice how the only people who spout Biblical quotes are those who cannot speak or think for themselves?? They should know that it’s not the authority for everyone – only those who accept it as such. The rest of us use our brains and reason. It’s why we always win debates with them because there’s always another Bible quote to cancel out the ones they spout. So, quoters of Biblical nonsense, go post your inane quotes on some holier-than-thou puppet website, and leave these threads for those of us who think and speak for ourselves.
December 5th, 2005 at 4:37 pm“God Bless America”??? Why is your invisible idol too busy ignoring moldested children and cancer patients, so you guys get to go to the head of the line with football receivers and Oscar nominees? Smug and holier-than-thou all at the same time. Why don’t you guys go adopt some forced birth kids, clearly you have nothing better to do with your time than mind everyone’s business but your own!
December 5th, 2005 at 4:42 pmThere is no father, and Jesus was not a real person. You have blind faith in something that, according to you, invented rape, incest and crack babies. Hardly something worthy of your worship…
December 5th, 2005 at 4:45 pm“God Bless America�?? Why is your invisible idol too busy ignoring moldested children and cancer patients,
Comment by bless you?
What makes you think He’s ignoring them, because there are molested children and cancer patients? See “Why God Allows Bad Things to Happen to Good People”. Besides, what would you fundy-atheists have to bitch about if life was a bowl of cherries?
There is no father, and Jesus was not a real person. You have blind faith in something that, according to you, invented rape, incest and crack babies. Hardly something worthy of your worship…
Comment by Wake up call
Fine believe what you want but don’t make the mistake of saying that in company that has more than a GED. (not that it’s likely you’d have that opportunity)
There’s more historical evidence for the person of Jesus Christ than there is for numerous other historical figures you take for granted. There is no discussion or doubt among historians whether or not Jesus existed. Dumbass.
December 5th, 2005 at 5:21 pmYou guys ever notice how the only people who spout Biblical quotes are those who cannot speak or think for themselves?? They should know that it’s not the authority for everyone – only those who accept it as such. The rest of us use our brains and reason.
Comment by egocentricity at work
Brains and reason hasn’t worked out all that well for you has it loser? Oh and by the way, atheists always lose the debate. You losers have been trying to destroy the Christian faith for 2000 years. The best brains you’ve ever had, some the best the world has ever seen have failed in their mission. You modern Left Wing Weasels don’t hold a candle to the enlightened French Sophists.
But without doubt the greatest minds of all time have belonged to people of faith, mostly Christian. It’s why we win, it’s why we’re better than you.
December 5th, 2005 at 5:32 pm#117 i-right-idiot
There is no proof for the “historical Jesus”. The only thing you guys have is something that is proven to be a forgery of Josephus. No one that period of historians wrote about Jesus. You say there’s proof, then prove it. Proof is in the corner of those who insist it exists. You have none. If you didn. there wouldn’t be atheists, agnostics, or any other religion but yours. But the reality is that your specific religion is one in thousands. The odds of you being right is like 1%. Kind of a waste of a perfectly good existence.
The idea of your Jesus was stolen from other religions who saw this figure as an abstract – you made it literal. There was no Jesus, and there is no God. Prove it and I’ll convert back. But you can’t. Just admit that we are all born Atheists and it isn’t until religion is forced on us that we convert to it. Otherwise, Catholics would have Jewish babies who would have Zoarastrian babies who would have Animist babies. You’re only a Christian because your mommy and daddy were. You’d be a flag waving Muslim had you been born in Iraq.
As far as education goes, you could stand to read a book or two. Clearly your ignorance is overwhelming you and getting in the way of your ability to live in reality. Has anyone told you that Santa Claus is fake yet as well? Oh, no! Don’t cry! He’s in heaven with the Easter Bunny, Jesus and my brother’s imaginary friend Toby…
December 5th, 2005 at 8:21 pm#118 Idiot-Wrong-Imbicle
Would that be the Christian priests who are raping children or the Christian leaders who are stealing the pensions of little old ladies that you are revering? You really should just keep talking. The more you say, the more you prove our point that you wingnuts are really lonely, desperate people who need to believe in a make-believe god. Try considering someone other than your self for a fraction of a second, and you might actually make a friend. Or, you could pay a therapist. Maybe then someone will talk to you with you first insulting them.
You should actually read your bible. It’s the best argument for atheism going. There is no war against you paranoid zealots. You’re doing a good job of imploding all on your own. We just sit back, watch you ignite and laugh about it.
December 5th, 2005 at 8:27 pm#118
Define ‘better’
This is my definition… 15% of Americans are non-religious. Less than 1% of people in prison are non-religious. You guys have more people in prision than we do. Clearly, you don’t win the ‘better’, or the logical argument. Try again. I could use another laugh. Tom Delay not having indictment charges thrown out was pretty funny, but you are far more amusing in an oblivious four year old name calling temper tantrum sort of way. I don’t see this kind of puerile irrationality with even my behavioral disorder students. Keep going…
December 5th, 2005 at 8:36 pm“What makes you think He’s ignoring them, because there are molested children and cancer patients? See “Why God Allows Bad Things to Happen to Good Peopleâ€. Besides, what would you fundy-atheists have to bitch about if life was a bowl of cherries?”
Why can’t you defend your belief? Why keep referencing other people’s words? How’s that thinking for yourself? Here’s a reality check – it isn’t. There is no god. Especially not a loving, omnipotent one – or he’d be as sick as you for having the ability to intervene and not. I don’t know a single parent who would stand by and watch a child be raped and do nothing to stop it. But your god would? How could you WANT to sacrifice yourself for something that callous and unsympathetic.
Oh, and we’d be perfectly happy not to bitch about priests raping alter boys. You are sick. Please get professional counciling. Fast.
December 5th, 2005 at 8:42 pmFun Facts to Know and Tell….
I wonder how long Holiday will stay politically correct?
Holiday Bonus: Happy Holidays or Season’s Greetings for Christmas (which in some UK schools now label Wintervale). However, the word holiday is derived directly from Holy Day, and in the word X-Mas, the Greek letter chi” represented by the Roman X actually stands for the first two letters of the name Christ.) Now there are published reports of organization banning the traditional Christmas Colours of red and green.
Last year the Top Politically Incorrect words were: Los Angeles Countys insistence of covering over with labels any computer networking protocols that mention master/slave jargon. Following closely were non-same sex marriage for marriage, and waitron for waiter or waitress. (prior to that they hit the plumbers…no more male and female fittings…I forget what they wanted to call them…maybe innies and outies? ed.)
http://languagemonitor.com/
….and y’all think I’m insane. Sheesh.
December 6th, 2005 at 10:01 amWhy can’t you defend your belief? Why keep referencing other people’s words? How’s that thinking for yourself?
Comment by bless you?
Oh but I can. It’s just that it’s too dang hard and time consuming to spend on someone who really isn’t interested. That’s why I gave you the search criteria and why God invented Google.
I don’t know a single parent who would stand by and watch a child be raped and do nothing to stop it.
Comment by bless you?
I don’t know any either but I’ve read about some. In God’s economy His plan calls for non intervention with the exception of the Holy Spirit Who’s work is done mostly on the inside of believers (as far as I can tell). If God were to step in at every occasion where fallen man abuses his own precious life and violates the principles and dictates of His Holy Nature, (you need to know what Holy means to begin to understand God’s nature)you would find that almost NO thought, word or deed of your own would be allowed without His intervention. How would you like that?
Pain, death and the obscenity of man against men often is the catalyst for men and women to consider the reasons why a God who is all loving could possibly allow the kind of things you describe to happen. When they do they sometimes find themselves face to face with the truth about themselves and that is the first step in finding the truth about God.
Now, see what I mean. I’ve just wasted five minutes of my precious time, haven’t I?
December 6th, 2005 at 10:20 am#117 i-right-idiot
There is no proof for the “historical Jesusâ€. The only thing you guys have is something that is proven to be a forgery of Josephus. [snip fundy-athiest talking points]
As far as education goes, you could stand to read a book or two. Clearly your ignorance is overwhelming you and getting in the way of your ability to live in reality.
Comment by Stop re-writing history
I’m not going to spend more than a minute on you. I stated that no credible historians doubt the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth. Your mission should you choose to take it is to find one. One credible historian, or STFU. Credible means someone with the proper credentials who has done the work and can back it up. The fate of the entire fundy-atheist universe is in your hands.
December 6th, 2005 at 11:36 ammy idea of a loser is a conservative in a liberal thread complaining that we discuss issues from a liberal point of view. yes, i-right-i, that would specifically mean you!
December 6th, 2005 at 7:34 pmmy idea of a loser is a conservative in a liberal thread complaining that we discuss issues from a liberal point of view. yes, i-right-i, that would specifically mean you!
Comment by unbelievable
I’m not complaining. I knew y’all were snakes when I picked you up. Someone asked a question and I gave them a correct, concise and polite answer. I think that’s where your real issue originates, in your heart you know I’m I-RIGHT-I.
December 7th, 2005 at 9:21 amI-Right-I
Actually, I know you aren’t… I used to be just like you. And I intentionally changed teams.
Have you ever left your own city? I’m curious. Because I’ve never seen you post a polite response. You call other people who differ from you third grade names, insult the fact that they’ve had difference life experiences that lead them to valid criticism of this government, and don’t seem to respect anyone or anything that you don’t agree with. This isn’t healthy adult debate, it’s intentional baiting and attacking. Most of us come here looking to vent our frustrations with the way the country is going. You have come here to attack people. I don’t know anyone who would consider you polite for that.
If you want a rational and healthy debate, then we welcome that. But it begins with respecting other people and their beliefs. You don’t do that, so you don’t get that. You want us to respect you, then don’t come into our home and shit in the middle of our livingroom floor.
One thing that would really help is if you did some research first. That’s where most of us come from. I grew up with a conservative, religious and traditional family. I left the right side for the left when I started to travel, talk with other people from other backgrounds, and read non-fiction. And before I start a debate, I do my homework to validate my thoughts and opinions. The best way to win an argument isn’t with name-calling or insults, but with knowledge. Just something I learned the hard way myself. Good luck!
December 7th, 2005 at 9:34 am#123
no, that’s not how it works. you make the asertion, therefore you have to provide the proof. you can’t because others have tried and there simply isn’t any. if there were, you would gladly, and gloatingly, present it here. you would love to showcase your evidence. the fact that you can’t is proof that you don’t have any. you don’t have any because there isn’t any. telling me to go look for myself is a diversion tactic people present when they can’t validate their own claim. there was no jesus. and, by the way, bethelem was a necropolis (city of the dead).
another interesting fact is that your supposedly all-knowing god wrote ‘the four corners of the earth’ in his irratic anthology (book of revelation). wouldn’t you suppose an all-knowing god would kow that the earth is round and not flat?
December 7th, 2005 at 9:42 amI-Right-I
To you, your notion of God sounds reasonable. I know that you think that because I grew up in a Christian environment. But then something occured to me. God was absent, but billions of years of Evolution were not. Male nipples, the human optic nerves running in front of the lens and the coccyx and appendix are several examples of many traits that defy intelligence in design, but embrace Evolution. And so started to see the world differently. I know you don’t believe me because you’ve never been on my side of the fence. But I have been on yours. I understand your rationale, but I now find it irrational to the reality that we live in. It’s not your fault that you were taught what you were taught. But I do believe it is your choice to keep obsolete beliefs that you didn not rationally develop on your own while comparing the alternative. It’s why the Fundamentals fear Atheism the most. Once people question the system, it begins to fall apart and those of us who make the difficult choice to question those unquestionables almost always abandon religion. I’m much happier now. Not because I am some unethical devil worshipper as we are stigmatized, because I am actually far more ethical now that I ever was as a Christian, but because my life and my destiny are fully my choice. Nihilism isn’t as dark as most poeple think, because the ultimate beauty is in having the utter freedom to choose evil without consequences, but instead freely choosing to do good. I choose to be a nice person. I’m not forced to be one by the threat of eternal damnation.
December 7th, 2005 at 9:53 amI-Right-I
To you, your notion of God sounds reasonable. I know that you think that because I grew up in a Christian environment. But then something occured to me.
Comment by bless you
I was just the opposite. I didn’t know Jesus Christ was God until I was past thirty. Something occurred to me too. The beauty, majesty, perfection of the PLAN in the Gospel was impossible to make up. I could and want to say more but I’ve got projects due. Maybe later.
I-Right-I
Actually, I know you aren’t… I used to be just like you. And I intentionally changed teams.
Have you ever left your own city? I’m curious. Because I’ve never seen you post a polite response.
Comment by unbelievable
I’ve never seen you make sense so I guess we’re even.
December 7th, 2005 at 12:22 pmBut why can’t beauty belong to humans? To say that beauty is greater than humans, we deny ourselves the authorship of our own ability to and to create kindness, love, help… we give away those things to a higher being and reduce ourselves to puppets played like a marionette by a puppet master – only good when something better makes us. I think humans are capable of beauty, and should be given credit for that.
I have friends who are Christians and we mutually respect one another’s decisions. It’s when we interject the name calling and the derrision that we wind up with wars and hate and judgment. I mean really, if the evangelicals are right, then why do they care that I would go to Hell for not believing when everyday I live by their same standards and not only do not hurt people, but actually have made a positive difference (I am a teacher for ‘Special Ed’ children)? I don’t understand why I, and people like me, aren’t just left to our beliefs. Perhaps you could explain that because I would be interested to know why you come here and, even you have to admit, criticize people who think and feel differently. Why does this make you feel like a you are right?
December 7th, 2005 at 12:47 pmActually, I know you aren’t… I used to be just like you. And I intentionally changed teams.
Have you ever left your own city? I’m curious. Because I’ve never seen you post a polite response.
Comment by unbelievable
I’ve never seen you make sense so I guess we’re even.
-Yes, it’s clear from your postings that logic and rationality do not make sense to you. I’d be sorry you’re too ignorant and self-absorbed to get it if you weren’t just so darn laughable. Better than a pet monkey that does tricks.
December 7th, 2005 at 2:42 pm-Yes, it’s clear from your postings that logic and rationality do not make sense to you. I’d be sorry you’re too ignorant and self-absorbed to get it if you weren’t just so darn laughable. Better than a pet monkey that does tricks.
Comment by unbelievable
I don’t mind if you get a kick as long as you don’t post anything that shows me I’m wrong and you are right. I’d hate like hell to not have anything to look forward to but a dirt nap that lasts forever. Especially after putting up with the likes of you for decades. But, I know that one day we all will get our reward. You will too. See ya, wouldn’t want to be ya.
December 7th, 2005 at 5:41 pmI think your ADHD medication has worn off…
There’s a whole website proving that you are wrong. Why you hang out here shows a real masochistic tendancy on your behalf.
What there is to look forward to is this life. The fact that you’re wasting it for some utopia that doesn’t exist is your loss.
December 7th, 2005 at 6:35 pm#132
I think your ADHD medication has worn off…
There’s a whole website proving that you are wrong. Why you hang out here shows a real masochistic tendancy on your behalf.
What there is to look forward to is this life. The fact that you’re wasting it for some utopia that doesn’t exist is your loss.
December 7th, 2005 at 6:36 pmP.S. Reward for what? Childish name calling, attacking the beliefs of others? Lying? And all those other things the mythical Jesus represents that you don’t practice? It’s not called a reward… I think you inbreds call it Hell.
December 7th, 2005 at 6:38 pmJohn Podesta- I think you mean well but cutting benefits to “free” lunches and “free” foodstamps is a falacy. “Cuts” are typically reductions in increases. “Free” is typically confiscated money from guys like me, working 2 jobs, while giving lunches to kids whose parents don’t take the time to make them lunch. After 10 years of having schools “encourage” me and my neighbors to take advantage of the “free” lunch program without any demand for verification of need, it’s obvious that it’s another scam to prop up the “we’re from the government, and we’re here to help” parody. Please, stop trying to help us poor people….just back away from wallet so I don’t have to get 3 jobs….(I’m working so my kids can be in private schools due to the fact that public education has been another “free” debacle of government help)
December 8th, 2005 at 4:27 amPlease, stop trying to help us poor people….just back away from wallet so I don’t have to get 3 jobs….(I’m working so my kids can be in private schools due to the fact that public education has been another “free†debacle of government help)
Comment by Marrk Marco
Not to mention that public shools are hazardous to the mental health of the children. Just look around on this site if you need some examples. Well said.
December 8th, 2005 at 11:05 amThere’s a whole website proving that you are wrong. Why you hang out here shows a real masochistic tendancy on your behalf.
Comment by unbelievable
Oh my, a whole website? There, that’ll teach me.
December 8th, 2005 at 12:13 pm#138 I-RIGHT-I
Yeah, I know, educating you is kinda like drilling for water in the Sahara…
You realize that you only post criticism, and never anything brilliant, inspiring, or even worth consideration?? Clearly you came here just to insult us (which you don’t even do that well really). And clearly that isn’t working for you. So why don’t you enlighten us with your brilliance. Go ahead, we’re listening…
December 8th, 2005 at 7:25 pm#136 As a teacher, I’ve recently seen several studies that compare the results of private institutions to those of public schools. The private schools are not scoring as well as the public education system, surprisingly enough.
However, I do think the public education system desperately needs an over haul. We need to take the Pentagon’s requested $100 billion and put it into the education system instead. We used to be the most educated country on the planet, but now we are seventh. Canada is first. And they aren’t fighting any wars… They also aren’t putting standardized test scores and athletics before the children. Something we do in this country all the time.
Studies have shown that low paid professions like teaching and law enforcement do not draw the cream of the crop into their ranks by large (there are exceptions of people who love their profession more than the salary, but they are the minority). Until we pay the teachers what we think our children are worth, we will continue to watch our education standing in the world decline.
December 8th, 2005 at 7:33 pmYou realize that you only post criticism, and never anything brilliant, inspiring, or even worth consideration?? Clearly you came here just to insult us (which you don’t even do that well really). And clearly that isn’t working for you. So why don’t you enlighten us with your brilliance. Go ahead, we’re listening…
Comment by unbelievable
I would not expect you’d say anything else. If you could shut me up like the seething and whining brats on campus try to do to conservatives you would. I’ve shed plenty of light but when I do y’all run for cover like a bunch of cockroaches. It’s not your fault. I blame your parents.
December 9th, 2005 at 3:27 pm#141
I still don’t hear you actually saying anything. Just stating that you can. You have an audience, so go ahead. Say something brilliant.
P.S. My parents were conservatives who bred like good Catholics, and hated Muslims, Jews, blacks and unmarried mothers. They were like you. So by blaming them for me being an open-minded, peace-mongering Atheist is actually ironical.
December 9th, 2005 at 4:19 pmThey were like you. So by blaming them for me being an open-minded, peace-mongering Atheist is actually ironical.
Comment by unbelievable
I don’t think much of Catholics so there’s no irony at all. They certainly did not, do not think like me. By the way the only thing worse to my eyes than a lapsed Left Wing Catholic is a Left Wing Jew and that’s only because Jews are smarter than the average Mick or Spick.
December 9th, 2005 at 4:24 pm#143 A Christian is a Christian is a Christian. You all believe in a bunch of made-up nonsense about some big Daddy in the sky who is gonna save you when you break a fingernail or lose a contact lense while millions of people are starving to death and religious nuts are blowing up innocent people in the name of their make-believe diety while you stand around and do nothing but whine about your own rotten lives, wasting them for some happily ever after eternal life that simply does not exist.
Good thing I take no stock in your eyes, eh? You call it lapsed, I call it enlightened. You say po-ta-to, I say po-tat-o, lets’ call the whole thing off…
And you still haven’t said anything brilliant. It’s your chance. You have an eager audience here waiting for you to enlighten me. Do it. Can you? Or are your racial insults meant to be the usual diversion tactic ignorance wields to hide your ignorance? Just say something brilliant that you didn’t steal from some book or other source and prove me wrong. Go ahead.
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