The Attack Dog Presidency
The Attack Dog Presidency
President Bush has shelved plans to propose actual policy on tax reform. Bloomberg reports:
President George W. Bush will delay a major push for revamping the tax code because administration officials concluded the changes are too tough to sell to the public and lawmakers, two people familiar with the matter said.
Instead, the administration will attack their political opponents on the issue. Dan Bartlett offered a preview this morning on Good Morning America:
The last thing we need do when people are trying to pay for higher heating bills or trying to make ends meet, paying for health care, the last thing we need to do is sock them with another — with a tax increase…The last thing they need is for Washington politicians to not find other ways to cut spending but to send them the tab. We’re not going to do that. It is bad economic policy.
Of course, the bulk of President Bush’s tax cuts haven’t benefited people struggling to pay heating bills or health care costs. In 2004, for example, households in the middle 20% of the income spectrum received an average tax cut of $647, while households earning $1 million or more received an average tax cut of $123,592.
Thus, it’s possible to rollback Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, provide tax cuts for those struggling to make ends meet and reduce the deficit. American Progress has a detailed tax plan that makes it happen.
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I still haven’t gotten my tax cut.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:44 amThe economy is roaring. Continue to slander it at your own risk. The American left is making it easy for people to discount whatever they say. It is a LIE to imply the economy is nothing less than very good right now.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:47 amDanny k,
Can you make ship me some of the DRUGS that you are currently using? I am sure that I may see the same thing that you are seeing about the economy!
That must be some GOOD stuff!!!
December 5th, 2005 at 10:52 am“President George W. Bush will delay a major push for revamping the tax code because administration officials concluded the changes are too tough to sell to the public and lawmakers, two people familiar with the matter said.”
Now apply the GOP bullsh*t decoder…
~~~~~~~~~~~~>>
President Bush decided not to hang GOP lawmakers out to dry in 2006 by proposing a tax reform package likely to prove highly unpopular with middle-America. Bush remembers how badly he f*cked the goat with Social Security privatization, knows that Iraq is still a problem, and has thus agreed to a delay on tax reform. This is intended to keep Congress on-side ahead of mid-term elections, and hopefully guarantee their support when he becomes a total lame-duck president.
Instead, Bush will attack Democrats for not having a plan, and will hope the corporate media lets him get away with this obvious hypocrisy.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:53 amUnfortunately, stocks are still tanking. The repugs do that on purpose in order to improve sales overseas with a deflated dollar. Also keeps the natives at home.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:54 amYour BS Detector should be going off when ever you hear a Republican saying they are doing something to help the poor or middle class.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:56 amThis weekend the business section of the SF Chronicle had an article that stated that many corporate CEO’s are souring on bushco. It said they are turning against it because they now seem to think that this administration is only interested in the fortunes of a very small section of the corporate spectrum (specifically energy, extraction & defense industries) and that it wasn’t spreading around to enough others to cover THEIR businesses.
Why did it take these CEO’s so long to figure out what we have seen for the last 5+ years? These are supposed to be the best and the brightest?
So, I was happy to see that truth is getting to big to hide. I’ll bet almost none of them will vote for a Democrat still though. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink I guess.
What is up with the trolls lately? It used to be that our trolls had some knowledge (neddy excepted), but this new crew belongs on flame.com, not here.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:03 amToday, President Bush will travel to North Carolina to tout an economy the White House says is “cooking along” with “strong and sustained economic growth.” Ordinary Americans do not share the president’s enthusiasm: 63 percent of Americans characterize the economy as “bad,” “very bad,” or “terrible,” and “by 58 to 36 percent people say economic conditions are getting worse, not better.” The divide is understandable. For the beneficiaries of President Bush’s economic policies — major corporations and wealthy Americans — times are booming. Inflation-adjusted corporate profits have risen more than 50 percent since the last quarter of 2001. But the basic test of an administration is not whether it can merely improve the lot of the comfortable and well-off; it’s whether growth and opportunity can be spread throughout an economy. As public opinion numbers show, President Bush has not passed this test. Middle and working-class Americans are frustrated with the economy for the simple fact that it’s not working for them. Despite positive job and GDP indicators, most families are losing economic ground — losing purchasing power, stretching stagnant wages, and piling up debt.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:07 amFor more on the “attack dog” presidency, see:
“The Politics of Payback.”
December 5th, 2005 at 11:09 amThe Troll pool is slipping because Bushco has dropped the requirement for a grade school education. Of course, none of them are toilet trained as is obvious from their linguistic patterns.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:10 amdannyk, your desperation is palpable. The economy is roaring and you can’t explain why nobody buys Bush’s crap. Why is he tanking if all that matters is numbers? Is it okay that Americans are spending 1.9% more than they are making? What about the fact that Americans are not saving anything for futures?
Your answer is the economy is roaring? Doesn’t that seem vague and out of context to you?
December 5th, 2005 at 11:12 amAn animal will roar when it is at risk as well as when it is triumphant. dannyk is aluding to the former.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:15 amTo a degree, we welcome your posts, however, we do require a certain amount of intelligence and thought. Consider it a favor by us doing this for you.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:15 amJust steal shit from rich people. That’s my brainy solution.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:19 amDannyK- it has been proven that “Voodoo economics” or trickle-down theory DO NOT work in real world economies. Nothing like the Reich-wing for fiscal responsibility;the borrow and spend economic policy will place the burden on future Democratic leadership to correct this administration’s “roaring 20′S” mentality.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:21 amKindness – that would be nice to think; I guess I’m a bit more cynical. I think the corporate elitists pander back and forth; they give Democrat pundits a ‘domination’ power play for a few years, then throw the ball back into the Republican court. Bottom line, our politicians are bought and paid for by these corporate exec’s and their hired lackey lobbyists. And it’s been very effective, no?
Instead of this bullshit of taking “Christ out of Christmas”, we need to take corporate power out of our government!
December 5th, 2005 at 11:25 amdanny and randy, now that we know you are physically challenged, tell us, how do you propose the WAR on Communist China(and please, do not sayâ€NUKE EM TILL THEY GLOW).
December 5th, 2005 at 11:35 amYou are aware that the Chinese OUTNUMBER America FOUR to ONE?
China=1.3 Billion
India=1 Billion
America is less than 300 million. minus you danny, because you cant fight, remember?
The economy is roaring.
danny k
Uh-huh. That what they said in the 1920’s.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:36 amRemember the 1930’s?
administration officials concluded the changes are too tough to sell to the public and lawmakers
This must be another lie/deception. They have done whatever they’ve felt like to this point.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:45 amSo, is this to say that the American public has wised up to the raping we face from this Administration…to the point, they can no longer sell their “rich get richer and we all benefit” and think it will fly?
December 5th, 2005 at 11:49 amdannyk and randy are playing ring around the rosy bush.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:49 amthey will not answer tough questions.
oh, everything is so gleefull in thier spoiled lives.
Just steal shit from rich people. That’s my brainy solution.
Comment by Dr. Strangelove — December 5, 2005 @ 11:19 am
Hey, they’ve been stealing from the rest of us for decades – and Strangemind is scared they might actually have to carry their own weight for once?
December 5th, 2005 at 11:50 am#20. Yep.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:51 amDr. Strangelove, that gets harder and harder to do.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:52 amdo you have any new technologies to share?
where was the public during bankruptcy reform?
Now some tragic incident (tornado, trailer park sold for strip mall, pig farm layoffs, etc) can send a family in to debt with no recourse except suicide….yipee!
December 5th, 2005 at 11:54 amyou know the rich buy tighter and tighter security, body guards, cops, lawyers, etc…
December 5th, 2005 at 11:56 amtake those hollywood kids for example, I wonder how many Bodyguards one has to have.
Just like the Pres, Daughters. they must have at least two dozen or more.
the poor cant afford security. afganistan is a prime example..
they tried this with Social Security, and guess what? it didn’t work!
you’ve gotta hand it to these people – they’re nothing if not consistent…
December 5th, 2005 at 11:57 am“The economy is roaring.” Tell that to the folks at GM who just got their pink slips. Tell that to the mechanics and flight attendants at Delta, Northwest, or any of the other major airlines that have declared bankruptcy recently. Tell that to the thousands of mom-and-pop storeowners who have watched their life’s work trampled by the emergence of the Wal-Mart cancer in their community.
The economy is only roaring if you’re a member of: (1) the Haliburton executive team; (2) the ExxonMobil executive team; (3) a defense contractor (except for those who make armor that isn’t being supplied by DoD to our troops); and (4) the Repuglican party who are being paid off by corporate lobbyists. If you’re not a member of any of those fat-cat groups, you’re SOL.
Then again, why pay attention to anything the trolls say here? Our comments only give them personal gratification as they continue to yank their cranks… Those of us in the reality-based community know how to read through all the spin, lies and posturing that BushCo is putting out — and the rest of the country (an increasing percentage) is seeing through it as well…
December 5th, 2005 at 12:01 pmThe Poor have no choice but to Accept to do what the Rich tell them to do.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:03 pmAnd what do the rich tell the poor to do?
Live FREEEEEE!
Rich just dont care. Point Blank check.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:08 pmso why defend freely?
December 5th, 2005 at 12:08 pmFreedom, Truth, Spudge, RYAN, and all intellectual posters…
What do you think?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucrr/20051203/cm_ucrr/isgeorgebushtheworstpresidentever;_ylt=AhGrqQkPf5QuEaGD.j2blV2s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-
December 5th, 2005 at 12:14 pm“In 2004, for example, households in the middle 20% of the income spectrum received an average tax cut of $647, while households earning $1 million or more received an average tax cut of $123,592″
– Comment by Think Progress
Quite possibly the most ignorant comment I’ve ever read … here’s the big news I guess. Those that pay the highest dollar amount of taxes received the largest dollar amount back … WOW, stop the presses. Households earning 1 million or more includes households earning 100 million, 500 million … their tax cut could be gasp, millions. To compare the “middle 20%” who have a defined amount of earned income (like, $45K to 85K, for example) with those earning 1 million plus (a non-defined and theoretically limitless uppermost) is not just misleading, it’s just plain dumb. I’ve seen some fair points/investigations on this website … this one’s garbage.
Given that the top 5% pay 53.25% of all income taxes, the top 10% pay 64.89%, the top 25% pay 82.9%, and the top 50% pay 96.03%, the whole tax cuts for the rich argument is a dog that “don’t hunt” … use your brains people. The bottom 50%? They pay a paltry 3.97% of all income taxes. The top 1% is paying more than ten times the federal income taxes than the bottom 50% … AND THEY SHOULD (but they should also be the beneficiaries of larger sums when tax cuts occur). My point is, don’t get all jacked up about some quoted “financials” without actually looking deeper.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:14 pmZippy
The economy’s strength is not measured by the success of individual companies (who’ve been grossly mismanaged)and the relative success of “Mom and Pops” shops when compared to Walmart.
Consumer confidence is up, GDP is up by 1% over last quarter, unemployment is flat, home sales continues to be brisk, etc – all this over a quarter with huge hurricanes and damage. The economy is doing very well … because you don’t like GWB changes nothing.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:22 pmNo, sorry. Richy shall not pass go. Most people in that stratosphere can live with the imbalance, as opposed to people who are deciding what shape of pasta to eat night after night versus what color Hummer they want to use that week or if they should go buy that chalet in Utah or Colorado, or both. So suck it up, you make alot, good, then let them take alot, you will have more than enough when they ring that knell at the stock exchange. Especially when der Furher has a deficit that is the bloated dead elephant in the room. Pay up and go make some more.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:26 pmIf the megacorporate greedmongers that fund the lobbyists and their dirty deeds weren’t trying to have their cake and eat it too you might not be as offended by the naked greed. However they hide their books offshore to avoid paying taxes, and the GOP cooperates. They bust unions and they hammer the infrastructure that supports labor, and the GOP cooperates. They give massive tax breaks to Big Oil, Big Pharma, Big Insurance/Banking et al. and the GOP passes the legislation to assist them, eliminates personal bankruptcy as a last ditch alternative for the losers in their social Darwinist policies. They outsource and offshore manufacturing, software design and engineering jobs and GOP policies aid and abet.
Obscene profits would be one thing, but obscene profits while cutting taxes on the wealthy and drying up the funds for social programs that impact those that get left behind by their greed….well that’s just ugly. A capitalist system has the potential to be great, but a captialist system that’s allowed to have its way with no government regulation or oversight is a life-sucking black-hole of greed.
The GOP wants us desperate and disillusioned, willing to work for whatever wages they’re so inclined to pay because we have no choice….other than the military. They know what they’re doing, the Grover Norquist’s of the world have been laying this out for years and they finally have the control of all three branches necessary to implement their robber baron policies, roll back the clock on the gains that have been made by “We the People” since WWII.
If the electronic voting machines and the media can be addressed so that democracy can make a comeback, we may be able put the brakes on this insane slide backwards….otherwise, get out of debt, move closer to the city and get rid of your car and learn how to grow your own food.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:30 pmThe Vatican ruling on homosexuals in the seminaries is interesting to other than gay-rights hawks. Catholics are at liberty to say that it is not the business of non-Catholics to probe such matters. But they will be speaking mostly to themselves, because the Vatican ruling touches on questions of universal concern.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:40 pm?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Any comments on this?
teeheeheee.
and they say we have freedom? hahahaha.rofl.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:41 pmafter reading that, i,ve become sick.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:42 pmif you read the words carefully.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:54 pmyou will understand what i am referring to.
Catholics are at liberty.
give me liberty, or, give me Death?
Verses
it is not the business of non-Catholics to probe such matters.
You have No Right!
You have no liberty.
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
you all see what I see?
Wow, 209k new jobs in a month and Shrubbie is touting his great economy. But didn’t Clinton AVERAGE 240k new jobs throughout his 8-year presidency?
Better luck next month Shrubbie.
December 5th, 2005 at 1:09 pmReality,
Exactly, and he didn’t have to lose several million jobs in the first place in order to set the bar so low. Even at the average new job creation rates of Bush, it is unlikely he will even break even. And when you consider that every month over 100k new workers enter the job market, bush has a LONG way to go just to restore us to the equivalent job levels that were in place because of Clinton.
The devel is in the detail, and giacomo as always has no head for figures, facts or reality…
December 5th, 2005 at 1:17 pmgiacomo – you’ve reheated old ideas. The rich should pay more because a) they are in a position to b) most of the expenditures to protect property and capitol by the federal & state governments benefits them disproportionately. As such, we have a progressive income tax which makes them pay more.
It is completely fair that way. If it was the same percentage wise, it would be the poor and the middle subsidizing the wealthy. As much as this is exactly what bushco & the neo-cons want, the bulk of the people see through that fallacy as wealthy whiners. Let the rich move to China (communist), see how much more they like it there.
December 5th, 2005 at 1:37 pmI am not making anymore than I was, yet everything seems to cost more this year…how is this better, what do I care if the country is ‘doing better’ if I have to live paycheck to paycheck, have no savings, no credit score to speak of, and further into debt everytime the mailman comes by??!!
December 5th, 2005 at 1:44 pmI didn’t say the rich shouldn’t pay more … what I said was to compare the dollar amounts that the two groups received back is just plain dumb.
“Bush has a LONG way to go just to restore us to the equivalent job levels that were in place because of Clinton”.
- Comment by Ryan
Ryan, if I remember correctly, your degree is in economics. You and I both know that job creation, GDP, consumer confidence, etc. are dependent on factors that are not completely within the control of the president/congress (although their policies can have an effect). If you give Clinton credit for the economy during his presidency, then you must also blame him for the massive corporate fraud that occurred over the same period. He was blessed with a time where the internet flourished and the world was, mostly, at peace. The last year of Clintons presidency was the first year that the economy began to greatly cool and thus Bush was handed a slowing market. Compound that with 9/11 (AT LEAST equal blame for the presidents on that one) and Bush has had a tough time to be president (if that was the only thing that had happened, this would be so). The facts are despite 9/11, unpopular “wars”, hurricanes, etc. the economy has been at surprising levels.
Yes, job levels are off from the Clinton years. To boil that down to be b/c of who’s in office is a way oversimplification.
December 5th, 2005 at 1:51 pm“if I have to live paycheck to paycheck, have no savings, no credit score to speak of, and further into debt everytime the mailman comes by”
And this is the governments fault how …… ?
December 5th, 2005 at 1:52 pmI jusst watched the preznits economy speech on CNN and found it filled with half truths, bubbly enthusiam, and a few lies.
He insuated that the textile industry had left North Carolina because of the policies of Clinton, nonthing further than the truth. Bush said he straighteneed that out this year with a meeting with the chinese, and now the textile industry in NC will befit. Mr. Preznit, there is no textile industry left in that state.
He blamed congress a lot for shortcomings in his economic policy. Stating that if congress would pass this, would pass that, would pass the other, then things would be better. Not true Mr. Preznit. The shortcomings of the economy are your doing.
He talked of the pension plans. Blaming companies and corporations for not guarding their plans good enough. Not true Mr. Preznit. When yhou took over office the Pension Guaranty Trust Fund had a balance of 10.5 billion dollars. In one year it was 10.5 billion in the red because, Mr. Preznit, you took the l0.5 billion and sent if off to Iraq in duffle bags.
Thre is much more, but I am sick at heart and at mind, and cant go any farther with this at the present time.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:08 pmGeo,
December 5th, 2005 at 2:09 pmFor not looking at the interests of it’s citizens…when the cost of living continues to rise, yet the goverment touts a strong econmy because of corporate profits an injustice is being served. I have worked hard ever since I was 13, went to school & took my studies seriously (while working all the way through) got out, and there were no jobs to be found anywhere, I finally ended up on the other side of the country working in a call center – if corp america was not rewarded for shipping jobs overseas, have accountability for how they arrive at profits and at what expense, the job market will open up a little bit
Giacomo,
Do you believe that the GOP wants unions destroyed?
Do you belive that the trend toward offshoring and outsourcing has increased or decreased since 2000?
Do you believe that Big Oil should be given massive government subsidies despite unprecedented profits?
Do you believe that the war on Iraq coupled with huge tax cuts that benefit the wealthiest have anything to do with our record debt and deficit?
December 5th, 2005 at 2:18 pmGeo, in some instances, as I said, personal responsibility has to play a role…but, when one has to constantly reconfigure their lives in order to survive because the fat gluttons at the top take more and more and the people are expected to make due with less or the same as prices rare all feeling the squeeze and pinch more because of this clown in office…Capitalism is the new Fascism for better or for worse. Star-bucks Nation/ this War is brought to you by Budweiser.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:19 pmThe whole off-shoring/out-sourcing debate is not as one dimensional as you’re making it. The cost of living will always rise, but inflation is under control right now. The sarbanes/oxley act effectively neutered much of the corporate fraud (by making all the corporate leadership sign off on the books and by making falsifying said books a criminal (not civil) crime, among other things). Corporations will always look to make money and find TLE (temporary legal monopolies) … that’s what they do and we reward them by buying the stock and loaning them money through bonds. This whole “corp. america” greediness is the root of all evil line is misguided.
Walmart as an example has been greatly derided as of late … yet, they provide the lowest cost and the largest selection for those that couldn’t afford the products elsewhere. Is walmart insane about profits, yup … their profitability is what allows them to keep prices down. The whole mom and pop debate is not entirely accurate as well … sure, some stores close when walmart arrives. The stores that differentiate themselves from walmart thrive b/c not everyone wants to go to walmart.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:22 pmThe economy is roaring. Continue to slander it at your own risk. The American left is making it easy for people to discount whatever they say. It is a LIE to imply the economy is nothing less than very good right now.
Comment by danny k
I’m roaring with laughter. In any case, what is this “American left” you speak of? It doesn’t exist. It never has. If you are talking about the majority of Americans, which you are, perhaps you had better move, to Mexico… for your own safety.
KillCon 2006 is like rat poison, but better. It kills psuedo Republicans and conservatives.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:24 pmGiven that the top 5% pay 53.25% of all income taxes, the top 10% pay 64.89%, the top 25% pay 82.9%, and the top 50% pay 96.03%, the whole tax cuts for the rich argument is a dog that “don’t hunt†… use your brains people. The bottom 50%? They pay a paltry 3.97% of all income taxes. The top 1% is paying more than ten times the federal income taxes than the bottom 50% … AND THEY SHOULD (but they should also be the beneficiaries of larger sums when tax cuts occur). My point is, don’t get all jacked up about some quoted “financials†without actually looking deeper.
Comment by Giacomo (aka GeoMetro & Jocko-Homo) — December 5, 2005 @ 12:14 pm
#
Zippy
The economy’s strength is not measured by the success of individual companies (who’ve been grossly mismanaged)and the relative success of “Mom and Pops†shops when compared to Walmart.
Consumer confidence is up, GDP is up by 1% over last quarter, unemployment is flat, home sales continues to be brisk, etc – all this over a quarter with huge hurricanes and damage. The economy is doing very well … because you don’t like GWB changes nothing.
Comment by Giacomo (aka GeoMetro & Jocko-Homo) — December 5, 2005 @ 12:22 pm
Here is a guy who knows how to dazzle them with bullshit. Such a facile and glib mind. Too bad he’s completely bonkers.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:32 pmMy point is, don’t get all jacked up about some quoted “financials†without actually looking deeper.
Comment by Giacomo (aka GeoMetro & Jocko-Homo)
Look deep into your own quoted “financials”. Wannabe Ecomomists. Won’t they just STFU>
December 5th, 2005 at 2:34 pm“Do you believe that the GOP wants unions destroyed?”
They may, but unions as an entity are largely from an economy from the 40s and 50s. The usefulness of unions (to protect the workers from the company) has turned into the exact opposite in some cases.
“Do you belive that the trend toward offshoring and outsourcing has increased or decreased since 2000?”
It’s increased … again, taking that at face value is not appropriate. Our economy is moving out of an industrial age to a service minded/technology age … many, if not most of the outsourced jobs are industrial in nature (I know some aren’t). This is why an education will become increasingly important in our changing economy.
“Do you believe that Big Oil should be given massive government subsidies despite unprecedented profits?”
Big oils profits (by margin percent) are not larger than many other industries (don’t get caught up in the dollar amounts, margin percent is much more telling). Profit margins average only 7.7% in energy, compared to 19.6% for banks, 18.6% for pharmaceuticals, and 17% for software companies. Over the past five years, the oil & gas industry has consistently earned a return on investment lower than the S&P industrials. The problem with big oil is that profits seem to be way up while our gas prices have soared. I could get into LIFO economics and why this is, but it’s boring. The reasson oil has so many subsidies is because they 1) support our economy in a most major of ways and 2) they have changed from a “mining” (ie. here’s the oil, drill here) approach to a largely exploratory (ie. lets look here for more) approach … exploratory is 100x more expensive but needed as long as we’re dependent on gasoline.
“Do you believe that the war on Iraq coupled with huge tax cuts that benefit the wealthiest have anything to do with our record debt and deficit?”
The war certainly does … in point of fact, we have recieved MORE revenue from taxes after the tax cust than before them … why, because of spending and economic growth (capital gains, etc.). While it seems to be counter-intuitive, tax cuts often result in increased revenues b/c of economic stimulation. The war’s costing a lot of cash (as are hurricanes, 9/11, defense spending, etc.)
December 5th, 2005 at 2:34 pmI see that giacomo won’t answer direct questions but instead put’s forth misleading (half-truths) to make bushco look like they aren’t the ones in charge, nor should they shoulder the responsibility we typically rest with the president.
How special. You are more conversational and you do seem to be knowledgable than the others who support dumbya. But you just won’t ake on the tough questions.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:34 pmThey never mention the fact that almost all of the new jobs being created are service sector jobs. So jobs that paid good solid middle-class wages with benefits and pension are being replaced by jobs that pay significantly less (30-50%) with no benefits or lousy benefits, no security, no 401K and often part-time so Wal-Mart et al. can weasel out of paying for your health care.
The greediest slimeballs, the ones that want a desperate, servile working class (the Mellon-Scaife’s/Adolph Coors’/Olin Foundation/Walton’s of Wal-Mart) have funded the right-wing “movement” for a reason. Instead of a rising tide lifting all boats, they’d like the rising tide to drown the dinghy’s as they laugh and motor away in their yacht’s. That kind of blatant injustice is enough to make a man VERY ANGRY.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:35 pmGiacomo,
Exxon just had the LARGEST PROFITS IN AMERICAN HISTORY, you’re such an idiot.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:42 pm“Here is a guy who knows how to dazzle them with bullshit. Such a facile and glib mind. Too bad he’s completely bonkers”
“Look deep into your own quoted “financialsâ€. Wannabe Ecomomists. Won’t they just STFU.”
- Comments by KillCon 2006
You state the above, then offer zero facts/points to support why you’ve said the above … what gives? I also happen to work in the financials industry, so I can speak with confidence in that arena. I wish you’d actually state why you think I’m a “wannabe” rather than just purporting it.
By facile and glib do you mean that my mind is lacking depth or that I’m extemely adroit and artfully persuasive (could mean either). In the context you used them (and given that you failed to substantiate any of your comments) I’ll assume the latter.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:46 pmGiacomo,
With all due respect, and in concert with what KillCon says above, you’re completely full of sh*t.
I believe my eyes, not what the wingnut infrastructure tries to sell me, I recommend you sober up to reality. Unless you are very wealthy (are you?) you’re in the same dinghy that the rest of us are. Our economy is teetering on the brink of collapse, as was discussed in threads from last week and only time will tell how bad the landing will be.
Greed and power are the only GOP values, which makes their cloak of religious principal that much more nauseating.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:46 pmPart of what republicans (who like Giacomo seem unfamiliar with how money or corporations work) don’t seem to understand is that very large companies have lower profit margins because of their size. If we compare Exxon last quarter:
9.9 billion profit on 100 billion sales
to walmart
2.4 billion profit on 75.4 billion sales
We clearly see that the profit margins for Exxon were approximately 2-1/2 times that of Walmart, which is considered to be one of the most profitable ‘retail’ companies around.
While it’s ‘interesting’ that republicans always want to compare retail to essentially ’services’ companies like banking and software, this is utterly ridiculous, and entirely idiotic.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:50 pmExxon just had the LARGEST PROFITS IN AMERICAN HISTORY, you’re such an idiot.
I already said, avoid looking at the dollar values … profit margins Ryan. Your economics guy, I thought. The oil industry is HUGE. Comparing dollar amounts is like saying that GMis more profitable than Apple b/c GM had larger revenues and profits. Margin percent, profitability after costs must be looked at.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:50 pmGiacomo,
I’m have a degree in economics, and I can safely say you’re witless.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:50 pmI also happen to work in the financials industry, so I can speak with confidence in that arena.
Tells me all I need to know. You produce nothing. You push paper around. Speculators and usurers. You are the first group of filfth we need to bury, permanently.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:52 pmRyan
The oil industry lags behind many other industries in profitability. Quit blowing smoke. See my post 55, I mention pharmaceuticals, banking, and software companies to name a few. You can say big oil shouldn’t be making those profits when I’m paying $6.00 a F*&%in gallon, but their profitability is not as great as other industries. Again, this is the industry I work in (finance not oil), I’m only trying to keep the conversation accurate.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:54 pm“I see that giacomo won’t answer direct questions but instead put’s forth misleading (half-truths)”
Kindness, ask a question and I’ll be glad to answer it … if I missed a question, it was unintended.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:56 pmThere is no way to spin this Giacomo, it is what it is:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9837574/
December 5th, 2005 at 2:58 pmI also happen to work in the financials industry
Financial industry! There’s a euphemism for you. He calls it an “industry”. He makes money the new-fangled way, for doing absolutely nothing of value to anyone but himself. You useless leech. Get a real job! Die yuppie scum!
December 5th, 2005 at 3:03 pmI believe my eyes, not what the wingnut infrastructure tries to sell me, I recommend you sober up to reality. Unless you are very wealthy (are you?)
Jay, I’m not very wealthy, but I’m not hurting either. I wish to make clear that what I’m saying is from my own talking points and not any of a political bent (although I am conservative … I’m sure that’s appearant).
The economy, profitability, etc. is not an opinion based phenomenon. Sure, indicators can be misleading, but when most are moving is a single direction, we can infer something. There are many americans hurting right now, I know, but the economy, especially given what we’ve “thrown at it” (hurricanes, etc.) is doing well. This is an empirical statement, not an opinion. Are there problems, sure. Housing could bust. We do have a lot of national debt (but this must be placed in GDP perspective). My pointd are … Oil should not be a scapegoat b/c of their profits (the dollar amount) b/c their earnings are proportionally in line. I am of the opinion that they could have done much more when prices surged, but a look at how they must account their books (LIFO) explains much of this.
December 5th, 2005 at 3:03 pm“Part of what republicans (who like Giacomo seem unfamiliar with how money or corporations work) don’t seem to understand is that very large companies have lower profit margins because of their size”
Your economics professor just vomited … what the heck are you talking about.
I’m have a degree in economics, and I can safely say you’re witless.
Classic, just classic, Ryan
KillCon2006, since you have no idea what I do in the finance industry (and it is an industry) why would you degrade it? “You useless leech. Get a real job” I happen to have a real job …
December 5th, 2005 at 3:09 pmGiacomo thinks unions are “so 40’s and 50’s” and don’t really fit in to today’s economy. That explains a lot.
Giacomo says that we’re “moving away” from an industrial economy. Well sure we are, but that’s because the Chinese do it for 10% of the price, so if we buy American now, we’re really buying Chinese. This doesn’t have to happen and the government shouldn’t allow it. This shift is being driven by the profit-takers at the expense of huge swaths of American workers, and that’s the problem. It shouldn’t be shrugged off like some fatalistic turn of the page….it’s happening by design and this is why we argue.
Giacomo apparently thinks Big Oil should get massive tax breaks despite its 10’s of billions annual PROFIT! That’s bizarre, to be kind.
Giacomo wrote:
“While it seems to be counter-intuitive, tax cuts often result in increased revenues b/c of economic stimulation”
…and the truth is that trickle-down economics is a rightwing fallacy. If you believe it, you’re a fool, if you don’t believe it and you herald its wondrous results, you’re a liar.
December 5th, 2005 at 3:10 pmJerkamo reminds me of a story heard at Wharton:
Man walking along a road in the countryside comes across a shepherd and a huge flock of sheep. Tells the shepherd, “I will bet you $100 against one of your sheep that I can tell you the exact number in this flock.” The shepherd thinks it over; it’s a big flock so he takes the bet. “973,” says the man. The shepherd is astonished, because that is exactly right. Says “OK, I’m a man of my word, take an animal.” Man picks one up and begins to walk away.
“Wait,” cries the shepherd, “Let me have a chance to get even. Double or nothing that I can guess your exact occupation.” Man says sure. “You are an economist for a government think tank,” says the shepherd. “Amazing!” responds the man, “You are exactly right! But tell me, how did you deduce that?”
“Well,” says the shepherd, “put down my dog and I will tell you.”
And a truism heard round the world…
“Economics is the only field in which two people can share a Nobel Prize for saying opposing things.”
Specifically, Myrdal and Hayek shared one.
December 5th, 2005 at 3:23 pm“Your economics professor just vomited … what the heck are you talking about.” GeoMetro
The truth is always sickening to the retarded republicans.
“Classic, just classic, Ryan”
It sure is. Another republican spouts off nonsense, and shows they know nothing about money or economics. When called on it, and their idiocy, they just write a retarded response. You are right, it is classic republican ineptitude and self willed ignorance.
The ‘profit point’ for a commodity such as what’s sold by walmart or exxon is ALWAYS lower than that of a ‘value add’ such as pharmaceuticals and software. Those industries have patents and new technologies that command a profit premium. When you get a commodity market producer such as exxon producing 10% profits, it’s a guarantee of a rigged marketplace.
December 5th, 2005 at 3:24 pmJames Kroeger’s The Progressive Income Tax: Theoretical Foundations explains why the Progressive Income Tax is the ideal method of taxation. (Because it imposes no real sacrifice on taxpayers in terms of lost purchasing power.)
December 5th, 2005 at 3:45 pm“Giacomo says that we’re “moving away†from an industrial economy. Well sure we are, but that’s because the Chinese do it for 10% of the price, so if we buy American now, we’re really buying Chinese. This doesn’t have to happen and the government shouldn’t allow it”
No, that’s not the reason … it’s because the US has been the principal innovator for the world for 100 or so years … in theat vein, we are moving toward a new market. Much of this is dictated by profitability of the new market and the availability of an educated workforce (which we have). China is an emerging economy FULL of non-specialized and blue collar workers. They are poised to be a industrial giant, but not a market innovator like Japan and the US (Germany to a much lesser extent). South Korea has also come on strong.
“The ‘profit point’ for a commodity such as what’s sold by walmart or exxon is ALWAYS lower than that of a ‘value add’ such as pharmaceuticals and software. When you get a commodity market producer such as exxon producing 10% profits, it’s a guarantee of a rigged marketplace.”
While you are correct that products that are ubiquitous have much lower margins than those that “add value” the products themselves are 1/10 the story of profitability (as an economics guy, I’m sure you know this Ryan, but I’ll tell it since you left it out). Supply chain management (JIT delivery, etc.), leverage, availability of competition/suppliers/alternate products, etc. all effect profitability. Walmart sells mostly consumer staples, a sector which averages around 10% margin (note – in line with oil) even though by its very nature their products are commodities.
Oil must use LIFO accounting methods (b/c the price of oil varies so quickly) … to say the market place is rigged is dumb economics.
“trickle-down economics is a rightwing fallacy. If you believe it, you’re a fool, if you don’t believe it and you herald its wondrous results, you’re a liar”
That’s not trickle down economics (or Reaganomics) (which, by the way, does not say that the upper class spending will “trickle down” to those below them but rather that macro spending increases in the normal workings of the market) … it’s empirical data … look it up. The treasury has seen an increase in receipts since the tax cuts … I’m not spinning and this is easy to validate.
December 5th, 2005 at 3:58 pm“Jerkamo reminds me of a story heard at Wharton” – KillCon2006
- must’ve been there on a field trip, eh?
December 5th, 2005 at 4:00 pm” must’ve been there on a field trip, eh?
Comment by Giacomo ”
High schools have field trips, clearly where you learned insightful and scholarly level of expertise.
December 5th, 2005 at 4:20 pmI am going to let the people who are smarter than I about economics (Ryan Neat, et al)blow holes in the stupid arguments of the ignorant ones here. What I will say is that my job security is gone, my health insurance is more expensive and providing less, my pension is threatened, my social security and medicare supplement for my old age is in danger, my kids’ jobs are in jeopardy, my retirement plan hasn’t recovered from its 2000 condition – and it looks like it never will – goods are imported, jobs in every sector are evaporating, we are in an unending and futile war of choice costing billions, fuel costs are skyrocketing – and we are more dependent upon foreign sources, yet our president tells us things are rosy, the future is bright and tax cuts for the wealthy should be extended. In what world does this man live?
December 5th, 2005 at 4:30 pm“Jerkamo reminds me of a story heard at Wharton†– KillCon2006
- must’ve been there on a field trip, eh?
Comment by Giacomo (aka GeoMetro & Jocko-Homo & Jerkamo) — December 5, 2005
Blow me, jerkamo. Your family name isn’t an institution there, so STFU. Send a little wingnut monkey to school for a year or two and he thinks he can write Hamlet on his Speak and Spell and paint the Mona Lisa on his Etch-a-Sketch.
December 5th, 2005 at 4:32 pmI majored in CJ. My field trips were to places like San Quentin. Guys like jerkamo end up in club fed eventually, so I have some experience in his future arena.
December 5th, 2005 at 4:35 pmKillCon,
Guys like jerkamo always steal and hope they’ll have enough money and strings to pull to get away with it. Their out of touch with reality ‘greed’ and complete lack of morality (moral relativists) is what draws them to republicanism in the first place.
And their ignorance and idiocy is what keeps them there :()
December 5th, 2005 at 4:43 pmHey jerkamo,
Paul Krugman called. He want’s to know what’s taking you so long to shine his shoes. Are you automating your industry?
December 5th, 2005 at 4:44 pmSilly me. He’s not automating. He’s outsourcing!
December 5th, 2005 at 4:45 pmFrom the EPI,
“the Bush tax plan was signed by ten Nobel Prize winners in economics and 450 other economists”
But as the statement signed by these economists says, and let me read, “The tax cut plan proposed by President Bush is not the answer to these problems. Regardless of how one views the specifics of the Bush plan, there is wide agreement that its purpose is a permanent change in the tax structure and not the creation of jobs and growth in the near term. The permanent dividend tax cut in particular is not credible as short-term stimulus.”
Now GeoMetro would like to substitute his MBA credentials for those of 10 nobel economists. Sure, we believe you GeoMetro..
December 5th, 2005 at 4:48 pmFor those who are interested in what ‘economists’ think, as opposed to the amateur hacks that run the republican party, see here.
http://archive.epinet.org/real_media/030210/transcript.html
The republican aversion to facts, credentials, expertise and experience holds particularly true when the economy is involved. Just like the creationists try to ‘fix the facts’ to believe the world is 8000 years old, the republican non-economists do their best to cook the books to facilitate horrific and idiotic economic policies.
That’s why republican idiots like mighty hermaphrodite and mizzwrong always talk about ‘liberals’, ‘professors’, and ‘elitists’ with with such disdain. It’s because anyone who is trained and has credentials is a threat to their fantasy world of ‘wishcraft’.
December 5th, 2005 at 4:55 pm“The permanent dividend tax cut in particular is not credible as short-term stimulus”
Here’s the thing Ryan … that was said in 2003 … what we’ve found is that the tax cuts HAVE stimulated the economy and created jobs. This is not an opinion, it’s empirical data. We have also INCREASED revenues to the US Treasury … again empirically measured. We aren’t talking hypotheticals anymore … we can now see the fruits of that decision. By the way, Greenspan differs from your economists in their opinions on the tax cuts.
Early 2005 – “For the second time in a month, Alan Greenspan has spoken out in support of a part of President Bush’s economic policy. Today the Federal Reserve Chairman told the Senate Special Committee on Aging that he stands by his 2001 support for the Bush tax cuts. In mid-February Greenspan said he supported private accounts as part of Social Security, though did urge caution in making that change. While the Fed is usually considered a nonpartisan body, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) has cried foul, calling Greenspan “one of the biggest political hacks we have in Washington.â€
December 5th, 2005 at 5:19 pmHEY GEOMETRO
You seem to be forgetting something, and I think it pertains to the economy.
you say that tax revenues are up, if so, why is Bushlandia borrowing lB per day to run this big company we call the US?
December 5th, 2005 at 6:09 pm“Here’s the thing Ryan … that was said in 2003 … what we’ve found is that the tax cuts HAVE stimulated the economy and created jobs. This is not an opinion, it’s empirical data.” GeoMetro
Actually the tax cuts DESTIMULATED the economy and delayed the recovery.
“We have also INCREASED revenues to the US Treasury … again empirically measured. ”
That’s because the taxes on the MIDDLE CLASS were risen through the AMT. The ‘tax cuts’ mainly affect the wealthy, which is a drag on economic growth, not an economic stimulus.
You REALLY should read more, your ignorance is really juvenile and embarrassing. I think the McDonalds MBA makes the most sense.
December 6th, 2005 at 1:31 amI got my tax cut, all $300 dollars of it.
Thanks Mr. Bush. That lousy little $300 dollars really changed my life.
I mean, while I earn about $9000 per month, but hey, that $300 bucks, really impacted me. I think I spent it at Clydes in Georgetown, but hey, it was a really fun night.
I really liked the little letter you spent 30 Million dollars on. You know, that letter that you sent me a week before my actual check came? It told me how my government was at work for me, and how my check would be there soon. That was really a nice touch.
I don’t care what everyone else says about you there lil, Georgy, your alright by me. ;)
December 6th, 2005 at 9:32 amThat’s because the taxes on the MIDDLE CLASS were risen through the AMT. The ‘tax cuts’ mainly affect the wealthy, which is a drag on economic growth, not an economic stimulus.
Even a cursory view of the tax changes would reveal this statement to be false. Taxes were lowered at all tax levels. The rich received the largest amount of cash (the whole richest 1% line) but that’s because they pay the most. Proportionately, they pay a much higher percent of their income in taxes … ergo, they got more back. If you put 1000 people who make 25K a year and 1 person who makes 1 billion a year, who does the tax cut “benefit” the most? The 1000 now pay 0, zip, nada taxes while the billionaire gets millions “back”. Many have claimed that because the rich person gets so much more back, they are most benefitted. This is of course, complete BS, but I can see how they draw that conclusion.
December 6th, 2005 at 8:25 pmEngineers and computer programmers jobs have been outsourced. The 48 US welfare agencies in India have taken
US social workers, case workers and office workers jobs.
And on TV said l7 million US service jobs going offshore
because of CAFTA. Education they can send those jobs offshore too just as easy. And every time they do US companies take advantage by freezing wages, more health insurance cost and limits. Six engineers from California
were sent to train in India and were told not loose their jobs.Six months after they got back from California they were all fired. Engineer and computer programmer from Chicago suburb jobs went offshore. Took the computer programmer year to find job and when did half the wage of former job. They didn’t just get good good blue paying jobs
they got white collar jobs at same place and white collar
jobs period. On C Span guy called in and “said couldn’t believe how the Americans just lay down and let bush walk
all over them”.
Say about all the jobs Clinton had well when he started NAFTA and people lost their good paying jobs offshore and companies took advantage not say that was good employment
record for him. Or people lost their over time because of NAFTA not say he helped the job market at all. Like someone said all Clinton cared about was Monica and NAFTA not Americans.
If it wasn’t for those unions in the 40’s and 50’s the
people would have had still had no workers rights like their
grandparent in the late l800’s and early l900’s And we
have now gone back to no workers right like grandfather
and great grandfather times. Give me the unions not just for
the money and benefits but the workers’s right which have been taken from us.
What should be done that is Americans come over the companies. And that good quality US companies be established and with contract to stay in US and part of country they come into when they started out.
Not all of us can live in South nor do they want us to.
Make it law that US companies cannot outsource American
workers, because Americans come over the companies without
jobs we die.
No American president has ever taken the food off the
December 7th, 2005 at 4:00 amAmerican table by taking their job before clinton/gore/
bush/chaney. Coleridge and Hoover was the stock market.
Besides the illegal Iraq War they all should be impeached
for NAFTA and outsourcing and pension taken from them. I know labor is the high cost for all you suit with stocks. But one jobs effects the other and they SS. And would think not want to see other Americans and America destroyed by NAFTA and outsourcing by clinton/gore/bush/chaney. All melt into one so perfect one would think that it was all planned out in some back room. Should all be impeached and pensions taken for NAFTA, outsourcing, CAFTA, bankruptcy bill that took are only options, illegal Iraq war. And who ever said not governments fault that people live from pay check to pay check then whose fault is it if not the governments?
Not the people’s fault who work their butts off and do
without. And if I have to buy one more Communist China
product thanks to clinton/gore not only putting in NAFTA
but feasible one way trade with Communist China. I am tired
of having to have it forced down by throat to buy China
India, Mexico etc products and no products made in my own
country.
Try “rolling back” the tax cuts for the very wealthy and watch their income evaporate. Wealthy get wealthy by…uh..lets see…not being stupid enough to put their assets down as income. Income is taxed at 50%, thus they avoid having “income”…but the outrage by lefties makes great headlines…funny stuff
December 8th, 2005 at 4:13 amI don’t know why everyone attacks bush, sure he’s a moron but he is just a puppet on strings- he was the face chosen to run the country— if anyone has noticed all the people underneath him have more power than him. He dosen’t even write his own god damn speeches, a two year old could get through those pages with less mistakes. If he was a good president he would save some land and ship the immigrants away. Eventually no one will remember what a tree looks like. I want a president that preserves land. I’m sick of looking at these huge ass houses 2cm away from eachother.
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