Anti-Semitism, U.N.-Bashing Color History of “War on Christmas” Conspiracy
Anti-Semitism, U.N.-Bashing Color History of “War on Christmas” Conspiracy
The right-wing’s “War on Christmas” conspiracy rhetoric isn’t at all new, though the scapegoats have changed some.
In the 1921 screed “The International Jew: The World’s Foremost Problem,” automaker and notorious anti-Semite Henry Ford observed that “most people had a hard time finding Christmas cards that indicated in any way that Christmas commemorated Someone’s Birth.” He noted menacingly, “Now, all this begins with the designers of the cards.”
Later, the Soviet Union and the United Nations were fingered for plotting to undermine Christmas. A 1959 John Birch Society pamphlet stated, “One of the techniques now being applied by the Reds to weaken the pillar of religion in our country is the drive to take Christ out of Christmas — to denude the event of its religious meaning.” The writer sounded the alarm: “Department stores throughout the country are to utilize UN symbols and emblems as Christmas decorations.”
As Salon.com’s Michelle Goldberg writes, “To compare today’s ‘war on Christmas’ demagogues to Henry Ford is not to call them anti-Semites.” Yet Jews are not entirely absent from their campaign.
Fox’s Bill O’Reilly to Jewish caller: “You have a predominantly Christian nation. … And you don’t wanna hear about it? Come on, [caller] — if you are really offended, you gotta go to Israel.”
Fox’s John Gibson: “The wagers of this war on Christmas are a cabal of secularists, so-called humanists, trial lawyers, cultural relativists, and liberal, guilt-wracked Christians — not just Jewish people.”
More importantly, those who warn of a “War on Christmas” these days promote a conspiracy theory “that repeatedly crops up in America,” in which the “scheme is always massive, reaching up to the highest levels of power.”
In O’Reilly’s words, “There’s a very secret plan…to diminish Christian philosophy in the U.S.A”; in Gibson’s telling, “I began to connect the dots and discerned the outlines of the conspiracy.”
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So, what, progressivism is no longer the movement of “inclusion”? Now saying Christmas is okay?? But what about the Kwanzaa celebrators — they’ll be so offended!
December 4th, 2005 at 2:50 pmI betcha a lot of little kids are learning to associate Christmas with O’Reilly and company’s overheated, shouting visages.
Now imagine what it’ll be like when these kids grow up and want to get back to what they think is the True Meaning of the thing.
Or maybe they’ll actually become grown-ups, after seeing the infantile adults in action during their formative years.
December 4th, 2005 at 2:56 pmI loved the Fox Poll the other day — Is there a war on Christmas? Yes: 42. No: 48.
More Kool-aid, stat!
December 4th, 2005 at 2:57 pmI almost choked to death on this one.
http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/nosepick.htm
December 4th, 2005 at 2:59 pmAnd the SPIN gets faster~~~~~makes one dizzy!
December 5th, 2005 at 9:30 amFix News is a perfect propaganda arm for the US gov.
A War on Christmas produces ennui from the getgo. Christmas has been around for hundreds of thousands of years, well, almost. It sure seems that way.
Let’s have a War on Hanukkah to make it equal in the eyes of the Lord.
War on Drugs, War on Terror, War on Freedom… they’re all getting old. We need a ‘new’ war on something. It might as well be Christmas.
December 5th, 2005 at 9:48 amThis is nonsense. The left is the anti-Sems in this country with their daily attacks on the US’ relationship with Israel. For example, Ryan Neat who posts here often is very anti-Semitic.
The left has to resort to these types of attacks because they will lose if they debate the substance of the issue - which is Christmas’ role in society. The GOP is smartly sticking it to you guys, too! This is a great debate to have just in time for Judge Alito’s confirmation hearing.
December 5th, 2005 at 9:54 amWar on Christmas? You gotta be kidding?
Just when I think they CANNOT get ANY worse, they prove me wrong!!!
What an IDIOT!
December 5th, 2005 at 9:54 amTo All,
It is fascinating that these ideologues overlook the true cause of “secularizing” Christmas through its crass commercialization caused by capitalism. Exactly where is the baby Jesus in this week’s sales figures? This is like trying to solve world poverty without understanding its root cause is the normal, profitable operation of capitalism.
These flacks will never get to the bottom of the “conspiracy” so long as they don’t confront the beast in whose belly they live and thrive!
Sincerey,
Jeffrey Stewart
December 5th, 2005 at 9:55 amThe only people with a motive to take Christ out of Christmas are the very people who have bought the loyalty of the right-wing…corporations and big business. These are the people who have the most to profit from by turning a religious holiday into a mindless consumer zombie shopping fest about unbridled materialism. Who cares about Jesus…just buy more stuff to make your life better!
This is the utmost hypocrisy of the right wingers. They actually believe they can maintain their religious values while promoting and pushing unbridled capitalism.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:11 amHow about the War on Truth? It seems to be the driving force behind the GOP.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:11 amdanny k - why does there even need to be a debate about xmas in this society? Was it up for debate? Who’s asking for one? What’s the purpose? To pump up the economic numbers? This is just another front from blabbermouths on the right to inflame the christian-right base. Since the administration is in a heap of reindeer dung, somebody has to stir the pot.
If there has to be a war on xmas, it should be the churches trying to take back xmas from the commercial interests. Any thing else is spewed garbage from cry-baby lunatics like Mr. Bill.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:11 am(I)n Gibson’s telling, “I began to connect the dots and discerned the outlines of the conspiracy.â€
Stop right there. That’s all I needed to know.,
I would think a psychologist would have a field day diagnosing FNC pundits.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:13 am“Because we’re going after the people who outed her [ Valerie Plame ], do I conclude that the American people now want a government run by spooks whose secret identities are protected by law while they pull strings and make things happen in an otherwise open government? No, you don’t want that. I didn’t think so. By the way, about my new book, ‘The War on Christmas,’ … ”
A funny Gibson quote on his Wikipedia page which I bothered to look up.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:14 amI don’t care if every last citizen of the nation is a Mormon, or 7th day adventist, or a Catholic, Methodist, Branch Davidian, Baptist, or a member of one of any of the hundreds if not thousands of recognized Christian religions.
This nation is no more a Christian nation than Pakistan. It is a nation that administers government functions secularly and leaves the religious lives of its citizens to themselves. In that sense, since Christians predominate, one might say it’s a nation with a large majority of Christians. That is a far cry from a “Christian nation.”
This Liberal believes in the right to keep and bear arms to keep these for-now-barely-contained religious fanatics from someday trying to purge those of us who happen not to share their specific superstitions and prejudices. If every Jew in Poland had been armed to the teeth in 1939 then maybe a few more would have made it out alive. As it is, you can’t even get a bialy in Bialystock - with good reason: all the Jewish bakers were killed.
This whole issue of secularizing Christmas is a non-issue, a red herring, a diversion thrown up by the radical right so we won’t see all the killing being done in our name by their fanatical followers in Washington , or by their plans for the poor being left for dead by their brand of social policy.
If you want to be a good Christian, behave yourself. Care for the poor. Love your enemies and neighbors. And mind your own business.
Merry Christmas, hypocrites.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:18 amGTL #15: probably the best post I’ve read anywhere in months. I’m with you on all of this; tired of being a liberal-leaning Catholic (try THAT one sometime — villification from BOTH sides!) who has to hear from so-called “Christians” how we all need to force our view of the world on as many people as possible, in the name of the cross. Maybe it wasn’t a slip of the tongue after all when Georgie-porgie described the invasion of Iraq at the outset as a “crusade” — that’s how the secular and non-Christian world views it, after all. And nothing could inflame the passions of an already suspicious world, much of which is Muslim by the way, than to think that BushCo is in the process of the next crusade, given how the last few crusades turned out for non-Christians…
Religion is best kept between a person and his or her god, goddess, tree, celestial body, graven image or nothing. And no matter what “religion” one follows (or doesn’t), the Golden Rule still applies — if you don’t want people blowing you up with IEDs, stop killing them too. Hell, for that matter, stop killing American citizens with the death penalty — that’d be a good start on a true “culture of life”.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:30 am#12 - liberals started this by changing it from Christmas to holiday tree. Americans are tired of this PC nonsense. It is called a Christmas tree because, it is, in fact, a Christmas tree. If the left wants to fight us on this - be my guest. We will gladly debate it. Until then, we will seek to return to reality and call the tree a Christmas one.
While you morons are at it, Why don’t you seek to change the name of A Christmas Story to A “Holiday” story. !!!
December 5th, 2005 at 10:31 amI think it’s a fundy War On New Year’s Eve! They’re trying to make us forget it by concentrating on the week before.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:31 amHave a very merry Winter Solstice and let us non-Christians celebrate in our own way.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:33 amWhen I think of the phrase “guilt-racked Christians” Saint Augustine comes to mind. One of the mystical loci of Christians is a very deep anxiety over our lives and the way we live them. Not to be ‘guilt-racked’ is in many ways un-Christian.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:34 amStole Christmas? What Christmas? What about the old white haired farts who stole Christs identity to advance ultra fundamentalist lies and b.s./ Hopefully I will get over my deep seeded hatred of all self righteous bstrds by the time I celebrate my true holiday which is bah humbug on the ultra righteous holidays and may all your houses catch fire.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:40 am#21 - thank you for your hatred. The GOP will use that to strangle the left come 2006 mid-term elections. The left is foolishly fighting this one. Thank you.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:42 amDanny k, When are you going to enlist , and, Fight for your FREEDOMS, They need you overthere , not behind your Computer.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:43 amFine. If liberals want to take Christ out of Christmas, then we’ll just abolish the holiday altogether and just give the money to our churches. The economy will suffer, but at least the money will go to just causes. Its not like we need to import any more stuff from China anyway. Who’s laughing now. You pinheads have no idea how important Christmas is to the economy do you?
December 5th, 2005 at 10:44 amBREAKING NEWS:
(AP)North Pole-Attacks on Christmas continue with the latest being a direct assault on Father Christmas, sources say that a shoulder launched missile was fired at Santa Claus and his magic sleigh full of reindeers.
Santa is in good condition at a North Pole General Hospital with some minor wounds and burns. There are reports that all of the reindeer are uninjured with the exception of Blitzer who sustained a sprained ankle and a broken antler.
Mrs. Claus has said that her husband “will be back on his sleigh in no time. We won’t back down from these terrorists and supporters of Saddam and AL Qaeda and Hollywood elites’ effort to destroy Santa and Christmas”.
A message has been left on a liberal web-site claiming responsibility for this outrageous attack on Father Christmas. The Anti-Christmas Liberation Union, ACLU, has stated: “This is the first of many attacks on the radical Christian Army that is forcing their Satanic Kringle and his philosophy of free gifts philosophy upon the world. This is also a blow against the religious fanatics who are attempting to take over America with their false Gods of consumerism, government intrusion and torture”.
The FBI have begun searches throughaout the nation. Several gay bars, enviromental offices and several homes of celebrities have been raided in hopes of finding out who is resposible for this latest attack on Christmas.
Michael Moore has been brought in for questioning. Moore has stated that he is being targeted by the oil lobby and Wal-Mart as well as George W. Bush and his elves in the CIA.
The Department of Homeland Security has raised the warning level to swirled red and white on reports of this latest incident.
FOX News has started a “Save Santa Fundraiser” and has urged children all over the world to crack open their piggy banks and donate to the cause. 90% of the proceeds will go to the salaries of Bill “Dildo” O’Reilly, Sean Hannity and John Gibson(who is reportedly making money hand over fist from malleable Americans who have been feared into another manufactured crisis by sales of his book aptly named “The War on Christmas or how queers, negros and friends of Osama Bin Laden want to steal your candy canes). The remainder of the proceeds will go to creating more news and propaganda to continue the fear and victimization being promulgated by the “most watched news station since Pravda”.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:45 amReports: Russia to sell missiles to Iran
Defense minister says Tehran to buy short-range, surface-to-air missiles
BREAKING NEWS
Updated: 10:26 a.m. ET Dec. 5, 2005
December 5th, 2005 at 10:45 am#22. Danny k, When are you going to enlist , and, Fight for your FREEDOMS, They need you overthere , not behind your Computer.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:46 am#24. randy the pansy, and Danny k, When are you going to enlist , and, Fight for your FREEDOMS, They need you overthere , not behind your Computer.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:47 amFreedom - stop lying. YOU hate the military and don’t pretend otherwise.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:48 am[…] Think Progress covers the anti-semtic aspect of the supposed conspiracy against Christmas. […]
December 5th, 2005 at 10:49 am#26.
I guess when George W. Bush looked into Vladimir Putins’ eyes and saw his “soul” he didn’t see him selling missiles to the Ayatollah.
Is Ollie North pissed of that Russia is cutting in on his inside missile deals to the Mullahs?
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 10:49 amThere is an important political reason why the “War on Christmas” nonsense is being waged. The New Orleans disaster revealed the incompetence of the Bush-Cheney cabal, the gloomy situation in Iraq is all too evident, the indictments have revealed a shocking level of corruption, and the Miers fiasco became a comedy of errors. The administration’s support among its core crew was eroding, and its Rovian game plan in jeopardy, as it is hard to energize your base in the face of all that. Something was needed as a diversion to re-direct the base’s attention, at least for awhile. That something is their fight to save Christmas.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:50 am#32 - and it’s great politics. The left has shamelessly been removing American traditions for years without debate. Well, alot of folks are upset about it.
This is just like the gay marriage debate. Rather than take a position on it, Democrats just attacked those who were opposed to it. The question is simple - should it be called what it is - A Christmas tree, or should we cave to the radical, far left elements of this country and call it a holiday tree??? I guess 80% would say Christmas.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:53 ama bit off topic, maybe. However, here’s Christmas present for everyone. It doesn’t cost much, and it’s fun. Merry Christmas. If you feel imposed by the greeting, too bad.
Fix News does all this stuff to get people to listen to their shtik instead of CNN’s.
Call it a ‘fair and balanced’ ’situation room.’
December 5th, 2005 at 10:57 amThis new ‘war’ is just another ploy to frighten people and get the faithful to pony up money and vote for their ‘protectors’ — you know who. And almost half the sheeple go for it, so it’s effective. The true meaning of Christmas in America — selling stuff — is behind it all.
Now if we just had some similar devious minds amongst reasonable, thoughtful people (you know who we are) then we could counter with a ‘war on true Christian values’ and ‘war on the poor’ and ‘war on the elderly and children’ and ‘war on the environment’ etc.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:57 am#29. That was NOT an Answer to my Question. since when do Questions become Lies, Danny k?
Danny k, When are you going to enlist , and, Fight for your FREEDOMS, They need you overthere , not behind your Computer.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:57 amAnswer the Question and quit trying to beat around the bush!
OK. Danny.
Give a list of the ‘American traditions removed by the left’?
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 10:59 amDon - I think it’s more of a war on stupidity and you idiots fall for it every time. The right seeks to bring America back to the center. Over 80% of this country favors calling a Christmas tree what it is.
As for your war on the environment, that is being waged by all Americans including the radical left. Please get a cause and stop making it so easy for conservatives to win.
December 5th, 2005 at 10:59 amDanny is wwalrus.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:01 am#37 - nativity scenes are offensive, 10 commandments are offensive in public, it’s holiday, not Christmas, under God in the pledge…. The list goes on …
Of course, the left protects free speech (and publicly FUNDS) those who denigrate the 9/11 dead like Ward Churchill, throw elephant shit on the Virgin Mary and put a crucifix in urine…. So yes, my friend the right is fighting back and WINNING.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:01 amthis is just confusing - probably the true intent…
December 5th, 2005 at 11:01 ami’m a lifelong liberal and i’ve never heard of this “stealing christmas” until the past couple years of listening to a few right-wing-wackos yell about it…the term “holiday tree” is new to me just this week from the same idiots…
i remember “keep christ in christmas”…what happened to THAT notion?
but “happy holidays” has always been meant to include the several holy days and holidays and celebrations of this season…mostly for commercial reasons, but, of course, to be inclusive of all citizens of this country and the WORLD…
yep, a red herring for sure…duh
you fell for their stupid tricks, danny k. Hell, you’re a perfect example of a chicken shit. You employ tactics that only a nitwit would use on people, thinking they are stupid and you’re schmart. Bully for you.
If I were you, I would join one of the branches of the armed forces and find out how schmart you really are.
What would you rather be, danny k? Smart enough to be dumb enough, or dumb enough to be smart enough?
absquatulate
December 5th, 2005 at 11:03 amDanny K.
It wasn’t wasy for conservatives to win in Virginia and New Jersey and California this last election. It wasn’t easy to win Florida in 2000, it took the help of the Supreme Court and a battalion of lawyers paid for by the Republican Party. It wasn’t easy for the Republican Congress to win extra seats in 2004, they won because Tom Delay redistricted Texas in an off year…bending the rules..in order to eek out a 4 seat victory over the Dems….
So anyhow.
Got the list yet?
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 11:04 amRon - the chickenhawk argument doens’t work for everything. I can’t enlist, but I have two brothers who have served in Iraq who actually love America, so I think I am free to bitch. What about you loser? Why not enlist?
December 5th, 2005 at 11:05 amPeople used to say Happy Holidays around Thanksgiving time…to wish people a Merry Christmas and Happy Channukah and a Happy New Year…but the new conservatively correct thought police want to determine what you say and how you celebrate.
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 11:06 amNice thread but if you look at amazon, Gibson’s book isn’t selling all that well. They are disappointed in fact. So most folks aren’t being snookered.
Let the reichtwingnut/christian fundamentalists scream & moan. It makes us look reasonable, truthful and balanced.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:08 amHey Randy - then maybe our ‘economy’ would become more f**king diversified! If you want Christ back in Christmas, for Christ’s sake, DO IT! Who’s stopping you? Most corporate executives happen to be republican! If you want to target those who are ‘taking’ Christ out of Christmas, boycott them. Like I, or any common ‘liberal’, have any ability to affect the change.
I agree with GTL; this is nothing more than hypocritical smoke screens that the radical right want to drum into the mindless heads of their followers. Well guess what, they’re not a majority and the rest of Americans are starting to wake up to the rightwing bullshit!
I’m more interested in putting justice back into our governmental system by holding our elected leaders responsible for the despicable choices they’ve made that’s dividing and destroying this nation.
Ring your bells, Christians; I could give a shit less. By all means, if you want to suggest cancelling Christmas altogether, knock yourself out; you won’t be pissing on my parade!
Happy Winter Solstice, because THAT’S what this ‘holiday’ originally honored!
December 5th, 2005 at 11:08 amI suppose I could. I would finally have some decent pay coming my way. I could die for the empire and you wouldn’t give two hoots about it anyway. I could be at Dover in a flag-draped coffin and nobody would ever know. But then again, if I were Ronald Reagan, my flag-draped casket would be all over Fix News for a month straight. That is how obscene it all has become.
I’m way beyond the age of what the Army needs these days. A ‘useless eater’ as it were.
“I can’t”- words of a chickenhawk, for sure.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:10 am#24 randy -”Its not like we need to import any more stuff from China anyway” -
December 5th, 2005 at 11:12 ami suppose that means you do NOT shop at wal-mart? hmmm?
i wonder if you realize that china owns this country now……..
thank your hero W and his buddies….
#49 - I can’t for physical reasons, but that shouldn’t stop you from attacking every war supporter as a chickenhawk.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:13 amIt is about conservative thinkers pushing their private agenda to make money on books and drive people to their chruches through fear-mongering.
It is apparent and obvious and the many who are easily lead–look for the Trading Spouses woman who was ranting about “dark sided” people…That is the kind of reaction the American Mullahs like Pat Robertson, Sponge-Bob Dobson, Pat Robertson and Fox News are dying for. They want people to behave out of irrational fear and to be driven into their ideological arms.
Look at Gibson…”the conspiracy”….read, Jews and secularists and Muslims…Very simply a soft fascist appeal. Convince people they are being attacked and offer them the refuge.
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 11:14 am#52 - stop exploiting the jews. The left HATES the jews and has more sympathty for their terrorist neighbors.
Conservatives are just STOPPING the left from pushing their own radical liberal agenda. You guys just hate debate because you know you’ll lose.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:16 amHappy Holidays!
December 5th, 2005 at 11:17 am#51.
Danny is “disabled” and recieves government stipends because of his “disability” so that he can rant about “welfare cheats” and “immigrants” who are “bleeding the system”.
Danny is disabled due to a psycholigist determining that he has “accute internet addiction” and is also prone to being “easily influenced” by propaganda and suggestion.
Also, still waiting on the big list of traditions that are “under attack” by the evil and all powerful left wing.
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 11:19 amYo Danny - like you’re the expert! “The left hate the jews”; STFU: your ignorance is showing!
December 5th, 2005 at 11:19 amWell, ok then. You can’t for physical reasons. You are 4-F. You can still serve in some capacity.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:19 amDanny,
You never debate. You make charges and then insult those who question you when they make points that counter your predetermined logic.
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 11:20 am#44 I can’t enlist, but I have two brothers who have served in Iraq who actually love America, so I think I am free to bitch.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:20 amYou are a Moron. You have no right to bitch you little faggot! Maybe(and that is a big maybe), your bros do, because THEY are serving, BUT YOU? AAWWW HELL NO!
SHUTUP, You sound like a RETARD!
And how the hell do you know what your bros love? YOU ARE NOT THEM!
#53 - Dammit, you’re too quick, wowser. Happy Holidays anyway, everyone!
December 5th, 2005 at 11:20 amJews targeted by the Left wing attack machine!
-Steven Spielberg
-Barbara Striesand
-Henry Waxman
-Russ Fiengold
-Jerry Springer
-Barney Frank
-Anne Lewis
-Adam Sandler
-Jerry Sienfeld
The list goes on. Please Liberals, stop the attacks!
December 5th, 2005 at 11:23 amDon’t make me list more Jews who are under attack and ridicule by the left.
The list is long and the left is dangerous.
-GSD
Notice how facts and logic only precipitate more attacks and obfuscation.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:27 amGood point - GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 11:27 amwho else here thinks one of the loud trolls today has a white sheet robe and a white pointy hood/hat in his closet at home?
He does seem to have issues with “other religious groups”. Makes me wonder what kind of “religion” he practices….
December 5th, 2005 at 11:28 amI know, let’s go to Amazon.com, rate and critique this travesty to a tree!
December 5th, 2005 at 11:31 amdanny, now that we know you are physically challenged, tell us, how do you propose the WAR on Communist China(and please, do not say”NUKE EM TILL THEY GLOW).
December 5th, 2005 at 11:32 amYou are aware that the Chinese OUTNUMBER America FOUR to ONE?
China=1.3 Billion
India=1 Billion
America is less than 300 million. minus you danny, because you cant fight, remember?
freedom…please supply links to your posts of news flashes etc…
December 5th, 2005 at 11:32 amGSD - the headline of this post immediately resorted to attacks, rather than debate the substance of the arguments (one which you would never win at the polls). The left wing smear merchants’ thin skin amazes me.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:32 am#66 - please stop projecting.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:33 amGibson is a joke. I wouldn’t buy his book if someone gave me the money to get it.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:36 am#66 HAU Kate.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:37 amShalom.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:37 amAgain, you never miss an opportunity to run from a debate.
You never answer questions and only offer tired right wing bromides that make you feel good.
You made the unsubstantiated allegations about the left “hating Jews” and I gave quick list of “left-wing” Jews who are not only not hated by the left, but, au contraire, quite embraced and celebrated by the left..
You don’t respond to that because it does not fit into the mantra that has been drummed in by a party that is largely white and Christian.
So, don’t let my logic interfere with your fantasy world.
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 11:38 amGiven that as a gift could become a new “White Elephant”, pun intended!
December 5th, 2005 at 11:40 am#68.
The headline was a declaritive statement buttressed by facts and quotes to support said statement. That then prompted people to respond back and forth with their own ideas and opinions.
That has been reduced by you and your logic to:
#1) An attack without substance.
#2) Recent Fox poll showed a majority of people polled didn’t believe there was an “attack on Christmas” under way, by the majority of responders.
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 11:48 amWar on Christmas? You gotta be kidding?
Just when I think they CANNOT get ANY worse, they prove me wrong!!!
What an IDIOT!
Comment by IraqVet
You don’t think so huh? Just when I think you couldn’t possibly be more ignorant you prove me wrong.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:48 amanother troll that has no capacity to think, let alone think for himself for once in his pitiful existance.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:52 amAll gone. Thanks ACLU.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:53 amSee.
It is simple. The right-wing attack dogs never deal with facts. Look at my posts, fun, fact-filled, lots of questions posed in an intellectual manner and relatively politely.
The responses? Silence……new attacks on different subjects not under debate…..recycled talking points by people who will admittedly say things like “let’s wait on our opinions until we hear what Rush has to say, tomorrow”.
Unanswered questions. More of the same.
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 11:54 am
December 5th, 2005 at 11:54 am“It is simple. The right-wing attack dogs never deal with facts. Look at my posts, fun, fact-filled, lots of questions posed in an intellectual manner and relatively politely.”
Really? Where do I find your post full of fun facts to know and tell? You asked a question? You posted and intellectual and relatively polite message? Naaaaah, I don’t believe it.
December 5th, 2005 at 11:57 am#81.
Your response is the exact example of what I lament about so many right wingers. Inability to deal with facts and logic and a reliance on attacks that never address questions posed.
Well, how about my fun fact filled list of Jews that are embraced and not hated by liberals and the left. The same Jews that are supposedly “hated” by the left?
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 12:01 pmThis whole issue of secularizing Christmas is a non-issue, a red herring, a diversion thrown up by the radical right so we won’t see all the killing being done in our name by their fanatical followers in Washington , or by their plans for the poor being left for dead by their brand of social policy.
If you want to be a good Christian, behave yourself. Care for the poor. Love your enemies and neighbors. And mind your own business.
Merry Christmas, hypocrites.
Comment by gun toting liberal
If all that’s true then I guess you won’t mind the Post Office giving us a religious Christmas stamp? You won’t mind a nativity out in the part or court house or local YMCA? You won’t mind a Salvation Army bell ringer hanging out front of Starbucks? You won’t mind if the kiddies sing a Christmas carol that mentions the baby Jesus? You wouldn’t mind if we think you are bigoted un-American heathen assholes for demanding that Christ be separated from Christmas?
December 5th, 2005 at 12:03 pmOther posts:
Look, oh, some facts.
“Danny K.
It wasn’t wasy for conservatives to win in Virginia and New Jersey and California this last election. It wasn’t easy to win Florida in 2000, it took the help of the Supreme Court and a battalion of lawyers paid for by the Republican Party. It wasn’t easy for the Republican Congress to win extra seats in 2004, they won because Tom Delay redistricted Texas in an off year…bending the rules..in order to eek out a 4 seat victory over the Dems….
So anyhow.”
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 12:03 pmI don’t agree with calling Danny k and other rightists any disrespectful names, and I don’t think he and his supporters should engage in this schoolyard crap either. Our positions and intellectual assertions should speak for themselves.
Danny, I don’t believe it’s true that the Right has been trying to bring this country more to the center as you claim. Perhaps for this reason you classify me as an idiot, a hypocrite, someone who wages war on religion, etc. I assure you none of those broad brushes describe me. Were you and I to be neighbors, I’m sure we’d be friendly.
I am not a Christian, a Republican, or a party member of ANYONE’s party. I may be an atheist for all you know. My next-door neighbor is an evangelical minister, and while we’ve had some zesty debates, my 2 daughters are best friends with his and we’ve had many dinners, play dates, etc. together. When he leads us in saying a prayer before eating we bow our heads and then thank him for leading the blessing.
There is a way for people of differing beliefs to coexist, people. Danny, you are guilty of a broad and intolerant rage. Are you matched by some on the Left? Absolutely, and they should know better, too.
But back to my point: There is no Left wing conspiracy - there’s practically no left wing anything of influence whatsoever anymore! How can a group be simultaneously absent from politics and all-powerful enough to launch a meaningful conspiracy against our most sacred holiday? This is the same paranoid psychological split that was seen in Nazi anti-Semitism: Jews are weak and inferior, yet all-powerful and in control. It simply does not pass the sniff test.
Witness how much further to the Left Nixon’s policies were than Clinton’s. The entire country has been moved to the Right, not the “center” and statistics bear this out with no margin of error. These claims about the erosion of society’s traditions are interesting, but, frankly, not related to politics so much as capitalism.
You do know, as a smart guy, that the Christmas tree was not always a Christmas tree, but a pagan symbol utterly devoid of any Jewish religious content Jesus would have recognized. The only relationship between trees and Jesus comes in the one they nailed him to for daring to fight an unjust political power. Also, there were no pine trees in Jesus’ neck of the woods and the whole tradition of Santa Claus et al does not hark back so very long as you may imagine.
The fact that diverse groups lay claim to the tree as a pagan symbol, or worse, a secular holiday symbol, may very well enrage you. But the marketplace has done more to damage the religious nature of Christmas than any liberal ever has. In fact, virtually every Liberal Christian will be celebrating the holiday right alongside you.
Everyone has a Christmas or Holiday or Kwanzaa tree or Chanukah bush or whatever. There is no conspiracy against you from the Left. I believe the Right needs big bogeymen for psychological and group solidarity reasons and since the demise of communism, terrorism and liberalism have been recruited to take their place.
Now, Danny, please respond, but remember your dignity and please, let your ideas speak for themselves. Please sh*tcan the hostility. Didn’t your saviour and spiritual boss Jesus order you to love your neighbors and enemies? Well, I’m right here and I’m certainly one, if not the other so…
give me love, Big boy! And Merry Christmas!
December 5th, 2005 at 12:05 pmAnother Post with the unanswered question…
“OK. Danny.
Give a list of the ‘American traditions removed by the left’?
-GSD”
December 5th, 2005 at 12:05 pm#52 - stop exploiting the jews. The left HATES the jews and has more sympathty for their terrorist neighbors.
There are terrorists in New Jersey?
BTW, have you bought your Fox News Holiday Ornaments for your Holiday Tree? Will you be attending the Republican Holiday Party? George and Laura Bush wish you a Happy Holiday!
Funny thing, my radical leftist hippie friends have been saying “Merry Christmas” this whole time.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:13 pmHaving vanquished another right-wing troll with a litany of facts, ideas and some humor, I will now head off into the sunset searching under more bridges with my torch of truth and light.
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 12:13 pm#84 Christ did say we should love our enemies. Karl Rove said only liberals do that.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:14 pmMerry Christmas one and all.
Ho, ho, ho.
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 12:15 pmYour response is the exact example of what I lament about so many right wingers. Inability to deal with facts and logic and a reliance on attacks that never address questions posed.
-GSD
Comment by Granite State Destroyer
I axed you to point me to the fun filled facts that you bragged about. Simple question, no attack. What’s your problem?
“Well, how about my fun fact filled list of Jews that are embraced and not hated by liberals and the left. The same Jews that are supposedly “hated†by the left?”
-GSD
Comment by Granite State Destroyer
I have no idea what you are talking about. The only Jews I know of that are not loved by the Filthy Left are those in Israel and the few here who don’t think Israel should be pushed into the sea by the Muslims.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:15 pmHas anyone bothered informing Fox ‘News’ of the fact that most “Christmas” traditions are of pagan origin or the fact that historians cannot even determine if December 25 was in fact Jesus’ birthdate (more likely a pagan carryover celebrating the winter solstice)? Why doesn’t Fox address the fact that many Puritans rejected the Dec 25 date and the time-honored practices of carolling, tree decorating, etc as heathen traditions. Perhaps Fox would point to the outlawing of Christmas in Boston from 1659-1681 as another example of the decadant ‘liberalism’of Massachusetts (Certainly Ted Kennedy has at least one English ancestor involved, right?) Christmas wasn’t even declared a federal holiday until 1870. Congress actually held session during the day in 1789 and it wasn’t seen as an unusual or unexpected thing. Fox owes it to their viewers to investigate this and inform them why the founding fathers hated America.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:17 pmIf all that’s true then I guess you won’t mind the Post Office giving us a religious Christmas stamp? You won’t mind a nativity out in the part or court house or local YMCA? You won’t mind a Salvation Army bell ringer hanging out front of Starbucks? You won’t mind if the kiddies sing a Christmas carol that mentions the baby Jesus? You wouldn’t mind if we think you are bigoted un-American heathen assholes for demanding that Christ be separated from Christmas?
I wouldn’t mind, but the Puritan founders of this country might be offended.
http://www.nytimes.com/ 2005/ 12/ 04/ opinion/ 04sun3.html?th&emc=th
Besides you’ve been calling us bigoted unAmerican heathen assholes for decades, why stop now? Not that we’ve ever demanded Christ be removed from Christmas. In fact, we’d like it if your leaders followed the teachings a little more closely, rather than simply using the word Christ as a weapon against those you hate.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:18 pm# 82
There is no need to call me an asshole and I won’t respond in kind, if you don’t mind. One of us has some decorum and class. The reader can decide for himself which.
I took quite a few constitutional law classes in high school and college, and I believe I understand what a secular government means and why it is a good thing; in fact, secular government is in large part what makes our society so free and unique and desireable to others around the world. We can worship who we want, when and how we want, or not at all if we want. The postmaster shouldn’t take sides. No government agent can compel us to spend money to support one religion over another and you must agree that this is good. A simple though large majority of one religion over another does not allow mob rule. Hindus have the same rights as Christians in America, as do Atheists and snake-handlers. I like that. Don’t you?
In 1789, 11 of the 13 colonies had religous tests stating that only a Protestant could be elected to the government. This was a major sticking point at the constitutional conventions, and it was no accident that the 6th amendment to the US constitution bans such stuff. Was this creeping Liberalism?
Our founding fathers wisely understood their choices and this one speaks volumes. Freedom involves letting people with disparate ideas go their separate ways. Would you have faith in a justice system that put verses from the Koran on the wall and had a judge who proclaimed his faith in Allah before sentencing you? As a non-Christian, I want to know that my taxpayer-provided public institutions are unbiased. Our rhetoric acknowledges a Creator and seeks “his” blessing, but pointedly goes no further. This is no accident. Oh, for some people like Jefferson in government today!
Anyway, I am no asshole. I am a gentleman. What a relief that I can say that. Your behavior demeans you, your cause, and your colleagues.
Peace to you.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:18 pmHas anyone bothered informing Fox ‘News’ of the fact that most “Christmas†traditions are of pagan origin
Careful. That kind of talk can get you burned at the stake.
:)
December 5th, 2005 at 12:19 pm#84 Christ did say we should love our enemies. Karl Rove said only liberals do that.
Comment by cynical ex-hippie
Karl is right and you misrepresent what Jesus was talking about. He would not ask us to love the Muslim head choppers or the Filthy Left who hate and want to kill His children.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:19 pmI think He wants us to nuke them and hang you. Merry Christmas.
#91.
So the answer is really that the “left hates the Jews” is a projection canard offered by those on the right that actually hate Jews themselves.
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 12:22 pmAnyway, I am no asshole. I am a gentleman. What a relief that I can say that. Your behavior demeans you, your cause, and your colleagues.
Peace to you.
Comment by gun toting liberal
You can say anything you want but it’s a well known fact that Liberals are all liars. I call them as I see them and when I see a Donk I see an asshole. My cause and colleagues are not diminished by my speaking the truth. That’s why we win. That’s why we’re better than you.
By the way, everything you know about the Constitution and the Founders is wrong. But we will soon fix that. This country can not stand if we produce one more generation of self absorbed whining ignoramuses.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:25 pm#96.
“What you do to the least of my brothers, you do to me”
-Jesus
“Least of my brothers”=poor, downtrodden, sick, prostitutes, drunkards, racists, murderers, addicts, homosexuals, adulterers, other religious sects, athiests.
Merry Christmas and joy to the world.
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 12:27 pmGSD, please allow me to identify some of the American traditions subverted and overturned by the meddling Left:
1 Unpaid overtime
2 Summary corporal punishment of employees
3 Gender-based voting privileges
4 Race-based voting privileges
5 Gender-based education privileges
6 Race-based education privileges
7 Gender-based employment privileges
8 Race-based employment privileges
9 Sick unto death poor children
10 Death by repeated, unwanted pregnancy
11 Squalid and short old age
12 Prohibition
I know, I know. It’s not like the Left has completely ended these venerable institutions. Just try getting a decent daquiri in New Hampshire! But their insidious influence is visible everywhere. Why, I know men who actually have to work for women. Or darkies! It’s like the Old World values of my ancestors don’t even matter any more. And the Left is responsible for every single one of these newfangled whatchacallums!
December 5th, 2005 at 12:27 pmThe next time a RW sock puppet brings up the “War on Christmas” rhetoric, I have one question for them.
What organization has taken a position against Christmas? Provide proof. The ACLU? Nope, they take NO position against Christmas, or any other holiday. “The left”? I don’t know who that is, but please find some proof that “the left” is organizing against Christmas. Otherwise, wingnuts, STFU.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:28 pmJesus never said:
“Whenever I see someone I disagree with, I see and asshole”.
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 12:29 pm#33 Danni, what traditions has “the left” been removing over the years?
December 5th, 2005 at 12:30 pmI mean other than lynching, wife beating, child beating, and gay-bashing.
#91.
So the answer is really that the “left hates the Jews†is a projection canard offered by those on the right that actually hate Jews themselves.
-GSD
Comment by Granite State Destroyer
Feel free to produce a link that would explain what you are talking about. I think it’s fair to say that the Left hates Israel. I don’t think it’s fair to say that the Left hates Jews. The Left loves ” Left Wing Jews”,hell for all intents and purposes the Left in this country was started by Jews, they just don’t love the ones who are religious, conservative or that want to live in Peace in the Middle East. I do think though that certain Jews hate themselves. Self hating Jews are fairly common in Left Wing circles. I think it must be a curse from God.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:31 pm#100.
The insidiousness of it all. Why do they hate America?
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 12:33 pmJohn Gibson + Fox=Traitor
Bill O’Rielly + Fox = Traitor
Rita Cosby + Fox + MSNBC= Traitor
What next, Halloween as the Devil’s Holiday? Boy that’s what Billy Goat O’Rielly will probably tackle.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:35 pm# 104.
The laundry called and they said your sheets are starched and ready for the next rally. The eye-holes have been restitched too.
The library called and your copy of Protocols of the Elders of Zion is reday to be picked-up too.
See, the “Jews” started the “left” therefore all of the evil and trouble in America was started by “Jews”.
Nice work.
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 12:36 pmOh yeah and God has “cursed” the “Jews”…..
David Duke called, he said tee-time was at noon.
-GSD
December 5th, 2005 at 12:38 pmThe founding fathers outlawed christmas because it was a pagan holidy.
As for ‘jews’ starting the liberal movement - bahaha, teddy and the rest of the progressive movement would agree with you. So would all of the ‘deists’ like Jefferson, Franklin, etc. who were ultra liberals. Heck, this entire country was originally the ‘left wing’ of the world.
It took 200+ years of lies by folks like MizzWrong for americans to forget this and the rest of our liberal heritage… She’s such a retarded little divorced chickenhawk. Heck she’s a war on ‘christmas’ as jesus would say…
December 5th, 2005 at 12:41 pm“Self hating Jews are fairly common in Left Wing circles. I think it must be a curse from God.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I ”
Self hating gays are common in Christian circles, I think they must have been cursed by their parents. MizzWrong is one of them.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:42 pmwho is this dannY k character. By his / her Posts I gather all the earmarks of extreme fundamentalism lack of character little or no personal esteem cowardice, a hypocrite just like the rest of their rightwing fire breathing satanic righteous b..trDS Maybe Bush Rice Cheney or Rummy along with hastert frist delay and those other humongous den of thieves in the congress and stuff a missile down danny’s and his brethrens chimmneys. I would not do it. I am a left wing zealot. we do not believe in the violence and lies of the Right wing. But they are the enemy folks. Make no mistake about it. They ARE THE ENEMY!
December 5th, 2005 at 12:49 pmbobbytoo,
that description fits all of the trolls. they’re either the same person, or a small group of friends. they pull their material from rightwingnews.com and freerepublican.com, so they seem to come from the same base of operations. considering the pentagon in iraq, i would be unsurprised to find that the same inept boobs who were retarded enough to outsource to the incompetent linconly group, are doing the same here with trolls. it has all of the earmarks of ‘military intelligence’, or the lack thereof under this administration.
December 5th, 2005 at 12:56 pmI am open to the possibility that some of the trolls are parodies- certainly IrightI is a parody, noone can be that freaking stupid unless they were purposely mocking wingers.
December 5th, 2005 at 1:01 pmI don’t know about you guys, but I really don’t need a Hanukkah Bush. (I’d do without Bushes of any kind)
There’s a pretty solid reason why Christmas is called “Crist”mas… it’s a Christian Holy Day and nobody else needs to celebrate it or comment on it.
This rightist BS is retarded.
December 5th, 2005 at 1:18 pmI-RIGHT-I,
Are you sure Jesus wants you to hang me? Me personally?
I mean, I doesn’t even KNOW me!
Is this stuff you put out there for real or a parody?
If this is really your view, and you are a real person and not an over-the-top comedic construct, I have to wonder whether I even WANT to go to Heaven if that means having you follow me around all the time telling me why you’re better than me.
True representative democracy is my passion. How about a vote out there, people? Who’s the saner and more rational patriotic American, I-RIGHT-I or the good ol’, fun-loving, peace-loving, Gun Toting Liberal?
Let me feel the love, friends.
December 5th, 2005 at 1:26 pm#115 - we had that election. You were crushed and lost seats in Congress. But no worries, we’ll do it all over next year. (AND you can cry conspiracy again)…
December 5th, 2005 at 1:28 pmas a fellow gun toting liberal, and a Jew, I’m with GTL. By the way, I don’t hate myself, and I don’t hate Israel. I don’t even hate the Likud Party.
What I hold in contempt within Israel are the minority religious nut-jobs (like the Me’a She’arim in Jerusalem), who want to control the military, but don’t have to serve, and who have hijacked the Knesset’s parliamentary structure as minority parties in order to support their extremist views.
Is Israel a difficult and contentious issue? Why of course, much moreso in Israel than here in the USA. But, like most other things, it isn’t an either/or situation. The problems in that small parcel of land date back not just decades but centuries. But those of us believe in the importance of the existence of Israel don’t feel that based solely on who runs the country and what their political bent is. I’ve loved it because of or in spite of Begin, Eban, Meir, Rabin, Barak, Netanyahu, Sharon, or Peres. If Labour wins, I’ve no doubt the fair-wind wingnuts will be looking for another friend, decrying Labour and the Shalom Achshav movement.
December 5th, 2005 at 1:39 pm#114, GTL,
You aren’t seriously asking that question?
You know weLOVE you here!
December 5th, 2005 at 2:22 pmBTW, Trolls,
My Pagan Tree looks especially nice this year.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:23 pmDanny K #115 - I’d like you to explain what relevance Bush’s reelection has to the discussion. If your point is that Republicans (which you have falsely equated with Christians) are in charge and that they can do whatever they want, than you can’t simultaneously argue that they are “under attack” and in danger of losing Christmas.
This is typical of the demonization process…liberals are alternately ridiculous or diabolical, depending on whether the speaker is looking for a laugh or to induce fear. I heard Ann Coulter say in the same appearance that every liberal “throws like a girl” (which would mean a conservative threw a pie in her face, I guess) and that she needed bodyguards to protect her from them.
December 5th, 2005 at 2:44 pm“we had that election. You were crushed and lost seats in Congress. But no worries, we’ll do it all over next year. (AND you can cry conspiracy again)…
Comment by danny k”
Diebold is a republican girl’s best friend, isn’t she…
And why ‘cry’ conspiracy, when it’s already been proven. Two election officials in ohio have already been indicted (bet you didn’t hear that one on your all limbaugh all idiot news of the day did you?)…
December 5th, 2005 at 3:33 pm#119 I alwasy thought it was strange that liberals are supposed to be hand-wringing worriers afraid to fight or hurt anyone, and at the same time ruthless tyrants about to crush everything you believe in.
December 5th, 2005 at 3:38 pm#121, you can read all about it in Thomas Frank’s book “What’s the Matter with Kansas”. “The left” is both marginalized, yet, at the same time a shadowy cabal helping undermine everything that real Uhmerkins hold dear.
For those who read that book, this X-Mas crap is just another plen-t-plaint.
December 5th, 2005 at 3:54 pm#1122 - EXCELLENT observation, Hippie!! Actually, there’s plenty of room in the radical wing of the prog parties for BOTH the pessimistic hand-wringers AND the ruthless tyrants!! (I guess they think that’s the ultimate in inclusion!! HA!!)
December 5th, 2005 at 3:58 pmMightHermaphrodite practices ‘wishcraft’ and thinks that’s good policy :()
December 5th, 2005 at 4:21 pmYou can say anything you want but it’s a well known fact that Liberals are all liars. I call them as I see them and when I see a Donk I see an asshole. My cause and colleagues are not diminished by my speaking the truth. That’s why we win. That’s why we’re better than you.
Here’s my problem with a great number of “conservatives,” and I use that term loosely, because I can understand and respect a great many aspects of traditional political conservatism while still disagreeing with it:
What’s with the violence and need to kill or destroy liberalism? Coulter says the only way to talk to a liberal is with a baseball bat. That’s representative of a “life-valuing” society?
I think, based on recent news, that any facts about lying fall well on the right wing side, and that is hard to argue with.
And here’s how I KNOW I’m better than you, I-RIGHT-I, although not necessarily every other person: because I don’t judge everyone based on their political tendencies. I see what they are all about, and I base my opinions in kind.
Based on what I’ve seen, you leave me no choice but to deem you utterly unworthy of the air you breathe. Your stance on Xmas, and if I can extrapolate, other political talking points, puts you in direct conflict with your faith. While I don’t believe in God, I am certain that if there is an afterlife, you will not be greeted by 72 virgins and all the free mini golf you can muster.
Now for the name-calling: You are an ignorant follower of an immoral President. Your sins will be the judge of you.
Sorry about that, but when called an asshole, I can’t help but drop down to your grade level and sling a little mud myself.
December 5th, 2005 at 6:16 pmGIVE ME A BAT AND PUT ME UP AGAINST COULTER. I WOULD KOCK HER BLACK BRAINS OUT IN A FLASH.
December 5th, 2005 at 6:57 pmi got a card from my gym today and it read “merry fitness”, i guess gold’s gym hate christmas too.
December 5th, 2005 at 7:01 pm“I have no idea what you are talking about. The only Jews I know of that are not loved by the Filthy Left are those in Israel and the few here who don’t think Israel should be pushed into the sea by the Muslims.i-right-i” So what should we do kill all muslims ya commit genocide so the jews can have their precious space. Whats crazy is that muslims have no decision power what so ever and they have no military whatsoever so how are they gonna do anything to israel Especially with U.S. backing them. Liberals i don’t think back muslim owning everything or jews owning everything this is why I hate nationalistic right wingers i want everyone to live in peace but i guess people are to ignorant for that like stupid crackers still can’t live with black people together down here in the south.
December 5th, 2005 at 9:59 pmTinkler- God bless you, not everyone on the left is an asshole and that should be self-evident….I think the left should be strong so the message of the left is heard and rejected on it’s merits, not hyperboly…did I spell that right? Help me, people!
December 6th, 2005 at 12:30 amMark Marco,
Now if we can find any evidence that there’s someone on the right who isn’t an asshole. So far all evidence is to the contrary, and you clearly don’t qualify as the exception.
December 6th, 2005 at 2:46 amFor those who are saying they should “call it what it is, a Christmas Tree”, it’s not. The tradition of using an evergreen to symbolize the eternal quality of life at the winter festival has been going on for a great many more centuries than christmas. Seeing as how it’s been happening since before your “Christ” (which, I’m told, merely means “Annointed One”; can anyone verify that?) it can’t really be said that “is what it is”.
That being said, I still call it a christmas tree. Just because it’s an inaccurate description doesn’t mean it’s not a valid tradition. But that doesn’t mean that everyone should call it that.
Merry Solstice to all, and Happy Birthday to the Sun/son.
PS:
And would that guy who keeps telling people that they’re needed over there and connecting that with fighting for their freedoms please quit it. There’s no connection whatsoever. The freedoms of the people over there aren’t salvagable because they will, in fact if not in statement, be living in a Theocracy. That’s what they want. The only people I’ve talked to that believe they want a non-Theocratic state are ones that either don’t understand the concept of “multi-form governmental institution” such as our own or who have never met a Muslim.
Please note, I support our troops. They have done everything asked of them and more. They are a very unfortunate neccessity in this turmultuous world and have volunteered to do a dirty job so that other people could live in peace and harmony. What I don’t support is the idiot who sent them over there to die for no reason. I think it’s that fool who is killing people just so he can say “See? I was right!” that isn’t respecting our brave men and women in uniform.
I-wrong-I, have you even read the constitution??? It flies so far in the face of everything that’s going on today that I’m stunned the administration can get away with it. Or do you think the Bill of Rights was all just a Left Wing conspiracy? Do you think the quote:
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
— Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
Is not a fair representation of our Founding Fathers’ views?
Gun Toting Liberal, if “true representative democracy” is really your passion, you must be–as I am–one of those wacky few who believe that it’s the path and not the destination that matters. We’ve never had anything of the sort here and won’t for the foreseeable future. It wouldn’t be, IMHO, the best case scenario, but it would be nice. And, for the record, I’d vote any day for a gun toting liberal over someone who thinks that Ieshwa Nazarine, Rexu Israeli (INRI, think about it all you fundies out there) would have supported the Crusades then or now.
Sincerly,
Robin
December 6th, 2005 at 9:52 amRyan- Where you been, buddy? I missed your insults and witty banter! God Bless you brother……
December 6th, 2005 at 11:38 amRobin - “Christ” is english for “Christos” which is greek for “Massiach” in hebrew, which is correctly defined as ‘anointed (one)’. All jewish kings (judaen and isreal) were ‘messiach’ - annointed one.
December 6th, 2005 at 11:48 amRobin - as to the rest of your statement: I wholeheartedly agree.
December 6th, 2005 at 11:50 amOH THE TWISTED REAR ENDS OF THOSE RIGHTWINGERS. BY THE COMMENTS THEY ARE LEAVING HERE NOT ONLY IS IT TRUE THEY ARE DESPEATE BUT THEIR GRAVY BRAINS ARE DRIBBLING OUT OF THOSE REARENDS AS WELL. MERRY HOLLYDAYS YOU FOOLISH RIGHTWINGERS AND MAY JESUS NOT HAVE DIARREAH IN YOUR LIVING ROOMS.
December 6th, 2005 at 2:40 pmI doubt Gibson could ever “connect the dots” about anything. What a freaking loser. Before long he and his slimely comrades Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Hannity, and Coulter will be screaming for a “final solution” to rid this nation of liberals and god-haters.
December 6th, 2005 at 3:08 pmI-Right-I,
December 6th, 2005 at 3:11 pmHow the f@ck do you know what the left likes or dislikes? Your use of stereotypes reveals your ignorance and petty-mindedness.
The War on the War on the War on Christmas
Why do Fox News and Bill “Falafel” O’Reilly hate Christmas? It’s two weeks after Thanksgiving, which means that Fox News’s annual absurdity, the Bill O’Reilly, John Gibson authored, War on the War on Christmas has not only been in…
December 6th, 2005 at 9:16 pmThis war is even worse than what to call your evergreen (Christmas Tree or Holiday Tree), and even worse than the war on Christmas Commercialization.
I watched a story on the news last Friday, and 2 Jewish people who got interviewed say they don’t care if someone uses “Merry Christmas”, “Happy Holidays” or both. They like both phrases.
December 7th, 2005 at 11:31 amWhat’s next? Will they take Satan out of Halloween? Will they???? Will they!?
December 7th, 2005 at 12:24 pmWhat a crock of nonsense…. no sense.
The early puritans tried to put and end to the xmas celebration altogether, stating that it was “overtly pagan”. Which it truly is. The yule log, candles/lights/ torches, tree, singing, feasting, mistletoe, gift giving — all from pagan roots, all in great celebration of the unconquered sun (sUn), all taking place long before Joshua ben Joseph was born.
If christians wanted to celebrate the birth of their king, they should follow his example….. feed the hungry, clothe the naked, build homes for the homeless and turn water into wine so we can toast to kindnesses and equality for all.
xmas is as it has become… an exercise in material wastefulness and useless plastic crap. enjoy.
December 7th, 2005 at 12:52 pmI was going to say that the problem with Christmas is another “C” Word: Commercialization.
But, of course, who’s paying attention to the war on Christmas Commercialization?
December 7th, 2005 at 2:40 pmYeah, the funny thing is that Christians stole Christmas in the first place. They needed something to offset the pagan Yule holiday, so instead of celebrating the birth of Jesus in June, when it was said to have actually chronologically happened, they pulled December 25 out of their asses. If I remember right, a lot of the Christian holidays were set around Pagan holidays.
December 7th, 2005 at 9:20 pmAm I nuts or am I getting a word bath of what christians believe and should believe from a series of lefty pagan posts? Orwell may be dead, but I see dead people…..
December 8th, 2005 at 5:02 amMarrk-No one is telling Christians what to believe, only asking them to acknowledge historical facts. By the way, what does Orwell have to do with paganism? If you are suggesting that the inept and disjointed political left in the U.S. is more of a totalitarian threat than the political right, I would suggest you read the newspapers more often.
December 8th, 2005 at 2:10 pmLefty pagan ?
Is there room on the right for an honest pagan ?
Christians have a historic habit of saying one thing and doing otherwise. Thou shalt not kill…. but we can bomb.
Inquisitions, crusades, witch hunts… How does one claim to follow a messiah of peace and then march to war?
All bogus bull puckey.
There is no war on xmas.
There is no war on christmas.
This is just another maneuver to make a headline where there is none, to distract common folks from real issues. Just another example of divisive spew brought to you by the loud mouth narrow minded fear/hate mongers of the media.
Spew away.
December 9th, 2005 at 9:43 amFar far away.
What I love about all of this is how silly can be. It is comical. Like anyone could actually get rid of Christmas in the United States. Now having it shoved down our throats we may be able to get rid of but the whole holiday? This country is idiotic. Why is there a notional holiday celebrating ONE religion. And then religion is supposed to be seperated from the government. It’s like a person who drives an electric car and voting for George Bush. It just makes no sense. It is MOB rule all the way. And by the way Merry Christmas and happy Channukah and let’s hope no muslims blow us up this year because of our stupid idiotic government.
December 11th, 2005 at 1:06 pm