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	<title>Comments on: ABC confirms secret prisons.</title>
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		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/06/abc-confirms-secret-prisons/comment-page-2/#comment-4771664</link>
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		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 16:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/06/abc-confirms-secret-prisons/comment-page-2/#comment-4753074</link>
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		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/06/abc-confirms-secret-prisons/comment-page-2/#comment-4722280</link>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 00:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/06/abc-confirms-secret-prisons/comment-page-2/#comment-4328366</link>
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		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Daria Werbowy</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/06/abc-confirms-secret-prisons/comment-page-2/#comment-4328362</link>
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		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/06/abc-confirms-secret-prisons/comment-page-2/#comment-4328364</link>
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		<title>By: WORFEUS</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/06/abc-confirms-secret-prisons/comment-page-2/#comment-284422</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/06/abc-confirms-secret-prisons/#comment-284422</guid>
		<description>But when I do things like, draw comparisons of our current relaxing of our own liberties to &quot;keep America safe&quot; and the rise of the Third Reich, I am not preaching hate.

I am drawing vital comparisons that are clear to so many, of the similar strategies employed by the Bush Administration and neo-conservative Christians in the house and the senate, to draw us along like sheep, non questioning patriotic 25 cent Walmart flag waving sheep.

The idea is to â€œlearnâ€ from the mistakes of history, so as not to repeat them. Nazi Germany did not start up the ovens overnight. It took lots of time, work and a hell of a lot of â€œsheepâ€.(and I donâ€™t mean kosher sheep). 

Why was little Heinrich Himmler and his servants like Koch and Pister, Hoess and others, able to get away with massacres? Because the people of the village just outside of Dachau and Buchenwald did not care, did not dare ask questions. Thatâ€™s why.

And thatâ€™s why they were cleaning the camps in their Sunday best, when the allies finally liberated the camps.

Questioning ones own governments actions was a pivotal concept for our founding fathers in forming our Union. In fact, Washington was so afraid of regressing into a Monarchy, did not want to be called President. He thought it sounded too imperial. 

Our founding documents were clear on this concept the capability to protest peacefully ones own government.

â€œCongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievancesâ€

1st Ammendment of the US Constitution Ratified December 15 1791

Indeed the very father of the Constitution who also happened to be the 4th President of the United States, James Madison, warned us of the trappings of becoming beguiled by religious zeal, and righteous indignation;

â€œOf all the enemies of public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other

â€œThe purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuriesâ€

â€œLiberty may be endangered by the abuse of liberty, but also by the abuse of powerâ€

â€œNo nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfareâ€

James Madison


But perhaps President Madisonâ€™s prophetic capabilities were best expressed by this glimpse into our time;

â€œIf tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemyâ€

James Madison

And of course he made it clear the defining safeguard against these identified pitfalls was the checks and balances of our 3 tiered Federal hierarchies. 

â€œThe executive (President) has no right, in any case, to decide the question, whether there is or is not cause for declaring warâ€

James Madison


In 1995 the House defeated, by a vote of 217-201, an amendment to repeal the central features of the War Powers Act, or Resolution P.L. 93-148, that have been deemed unconstitutional by every President since the law&#039;s enactment in 1973.

But even the War Powers Act required there to be a â€œClear and Present Dangerâ€ of Imminent Hostilities, or Armed Conflict. 

But Since 911, the Right wing of the Republican party, including the executive office, have told us how â€œeverythingâ€™s changedâ€ and we need to make new laws, like the Enabling Acâ€¦., er,, I mean the Patriot Act, laws that may restrict freedoms, but will â€œkeep us safeâ€. 

They changed the requirements of the War Powers Act and essentially suspended the â€œclear and present dangerâ€ clause of the War Powers Act and convinced us that â€œbecause of 911â€ he must be able to launch â€œpre-emptiveâ€ war in order to secure America. 

See if you just examine the FACTS, you will see that making such comparisons is not the end of the argument. In fact, it&#039;s the beginning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But when I do things like, draw comparisons of our current relaxing of our own liberties to &#8220;keep America safe&#8221; and the rise of the Third Reich, I am not preaching hate.</p>
<p>I am drawing vital comparisons that are clear to so many, of the similar strategies employed by the Bush Administration and neo-conservative Christians in the house and the senate, to draw us along like sheep, non questioning patriotic 25 cent Walmart flag waving sheep.</p>
<p>The idea is to â€œlearnâ€ from the mistakes of history, so as not to repeat them. Nazi Germany did not start up the ovens overnight. It took lots of time, work and a hell of a lot of â€œsheepâ€.(and I donâ€™t mean kosher sheep). </p>
<p>Why was little Heinrich Himmler and his servants like Koch and Pister, Hoess and others, able to get away with massacres? Because the people of the village just outside of Dachau and Buchenwald did not care, did not dare ask questions. Thatâ€™s why.</p>
<p>And thatâ€™s why they were cleaning the camps in their Sunday best, when the allies finally liberated the camps.</p>
<p>Questioning ones own governments actions was a pivotal concept for our founding fathers in forming our Union. In fact, Washington was so afraid of regressing into a Monarchy, did not want to be called President. He thought it sounded too imperial. </p>
<p>Our founding documents were clear on this concept the capability to protest peacefully ones own government.</p>
<p>â€œCongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievancesâ€</p>
<p>1st Ammendment of the US Constitution Ratified December 15 1791</p>
<p>Indeed the very father of the Constitution who also happened to be the 4th President of the United States, James Madison, warned us of the trappings of becoming beguiled by religious zeal, and righteous indignation;</p>
<p>â€œOf all the enemies of public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other</p>
<p>â€œThe purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuriesâ€</p>
<p>â€œLiberty may be endangered by the abuse of liberty, but also by the abuse of powerâ€</p>
<p>â€œNo nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfareâ€</p>
<p>James Madison</p>
<p>But perhaps President Madisonâ€™s prophetic capabilities were best expressed by this glimpse into our time;</p>
<p>â€œIf tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemyâ€</p>
<p>James Madison</p>
<p>And of course he made it clear the defining safeguard against these identified pitfalls was the checks and balances of our 3 tiered Federal hierarchies. </p>
<p>â€œThe executive (President) has no right, in any case, to decide the question, whether there is or is not cause for declaring warâ€</p>
<p>James Madison</p>
<p>In 1995 the House defeated, by a vote of 217-201, an amendment to repeal the central features of the War Powers Act, or Resolution P.L. 93-148, that have been deemed unconstitutional by every President since the law&#8217;s enactment in 1973.</p>
<p>But even the War Powers Act required there to be a â€œClear and Present Dangerâ€ of Imminent Hostilities, or Armed Conflict. </p>
<p>But Since 911, the Right wing of the Republican party, including the executive office, have told us how â€œeverythingâ€™s changedâ€ and we need to make new laws, like the Enabling Acâ€¦., er,, I mean the Patriot Act, laws that may restrict freedoms, but will â€œkeep us safeâ€. </p>
<p>They changed the requirements of the War Powers Act and essentially suspended the â€œclear and present dangerâ€ clause of the War Powers Act and convinced us that â€œbecause of 911â€ he must be able to launch â€œpre-emptiveâ€ war in order to secure America. </p>
<p>See if you just examine the FACTS, you will see that making such comparisons is not the end of the argument. In fact, it&#8217;s the beginning.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=284422', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: WORFEUS</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/06/abc-confirms-secret-prisons/comment-page-2/#comment-284214</link>
		<dc:creator>WORFEUS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/06/abc-confirms-secret-prisons/#comment-284214</guid>
		<description>You know it&#039;s funny, in another Blog topic, someone suggested the Mike Godwin rule on mentioning Nazi in an argument.

Well, we wouldn&#039;t have to if we weren&#039;t,,,,you know,,,,,TORTURING PEOPLE!!!

Man, can you believe we even have to debate this in America???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know it&#8217;s funny, in another Blog topic, someone suggested the Mike Godwin rule on mentioning Nazi in an argument.</p>
<p>Well, we wouldn&#8217;t have to if we weren&#8217;t,,,,you know,,,,,TORTURING PEOPLE!!!</p>
<p>Man, can you believe we even have to debate this in America???<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=284214', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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