ThinkFast: Ethics Reformers Unveil Major House Legislation
ThinkFast: Ethics Reformers Unveil Major House Legislation
A host of ethical scandals now plague Congress. Yesterday, four lawmakers came forward to unveil a proposal to bring integrity back to the halls of Congress.
Rep. David Obey, the ranking member on the House Appropriations Committee, joined with colleagues Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA), Rep. David Price (D-NC), and Rep. Tom Allen (D-ME) to propose “rules changes that would make it more difficult for lawmakers to sneak provisions into legislation on behalf of special interests.†They appeared together at an event hosted by the Center for American Progress to detail their reform legislation.
Afterwards, Congressmen Obey, Allen, and Price sat down with Think Progress to answer some of our questions about the ethical problems pervading Congress, from the leadership on down.
Watch a video of the event here, or download a podcast of our interview here.
Some highlights from the interview:
Rep. Allen on the lesson the Jack Abramoff scandal has taught Congress:
If you preach selfishness, it’s a short step to acting that way for your own interests. I think that Abramoff is an exception to the general rule of lobbyists, but I certainly have felt in my nine years in the House that there is way too much deference to the rich and powerful in this country.
Rep. Obey on the alleged ‘truce’ between House Republicans and Democrats not to file ethics complaints:
People were looking for ways to restore some civility [following the ethics scandals of the early 1990s], so maybe that was in their heads when they were reluctant to needlessly politicize ethics issues, but I think recent developments have demonstrated that we need much more aggressive action.
Rep. Price on why the conservative House leadership has encountered recent difficulties passing key legislation:
Roy Blunt’s got his hands full. I mean, this is an agenda – a terrible way to try to start out a leadership career — cutting food stamps, and Medicaid, and student loans, and child support, while you’re at the same time giving tax breaks for dividends and capital gains. Goodness, that’s a nightmare for any leader. And the notion that Tom DeLay could pull this off, I’m not sure is correct.
UPDATE: Michael Crowley at The Plank and Kevin Drum at the Washington Monthly share their thoughts on the reform proposal.
Full interview below:
THINK PROGRESS: Hi, I’m Faiz Shakir with Think Progress and we have five questions for Congressman Obey, Congressman Allen, and Congressman Price. The first question is: Do you hear conservative members now privately echoing your concerns about a Congress that’s too beholden to special interests and mired in ethical problems?
OBEY: I think individual Republicans are very much concerned about the abuse of leadership power by their leadership. I think they don’t know quite how to get out the box because they’re intimidated, but I think that they’re…a number of them are very very worried about.
PRICE: One thing that’s helped heighten their worry is the decline of President Bush’s popularity and the pushing by the Republican leadership of some very unpalatable things. Like you supposedly pay for Katrina by cutting food stamps, or Medicaid – cutting things that the very victims of Katrina depend on. A lot of Republicans – so-called moderates who have let their arms be twisted on past votes and have let themselves be brought in line – they’re resisting a bit now. It’s a little different. And so, we think some of these proposals for reform might find a little more receptivity on their part.
ALLEN: I detect a lot of anxiety among Republicans in the House and it comes in part from the fact that they’re being forced to do the things that they believe are very unpopular back home. So this issue of the power of their leadership over them is causing them concern.
THINK PROGRESS: In terms of how lobbyists interact with members of Congress, is Jack Abramoff the rule rather than the exception? Are there more Jack Abramoffs out there?
OBEY: I think Jack Abramoff is an example. I mean, I think he’s an outrageous example of the system gone run-amok. I think he’s going to be setting new examples of outrageousness. But the problem is you have a culture of “anything goes,†which has been pedaled by the Republican House leadership, an attitude that rules are something to be gotten around, and I think Abramoff is an example of what results when you have that kind of thinking.
ALLEN: If you preach selfishness, it’s a short step to acting that way for your own interests. I think that Abramoff is an exception to the general rule of lobbyists, but I certainly have felt in my nine years in the House that there is way too much deference to the rich and powerful in this country.
THINK PROGRESS: Today the Washington Post reports that the House ethics committee has been missing in action despite the fact that numerous members of Congress are under federal investigation. What’s really holding up the ethics panel’s work?
OBEY: Well, the ethics panel was put out of business by the Republican leadership on purpose. They wanted to disarm the committee, they didn’t want the committee to proceed, so they eliminated the chairman who tried to do his job, and they eliminated several reform-minded members and put in their own list of compliant members in their stead. Now I think the public heat has made them wish they hadn’t done that, and they’re getting off to a belated start, but I’m still dubious we’re going to get much out of them.
ALLEN: Norm Orenstein had a suggestion during our conversation earlier, and he basically said there ought to be an outside group which could take complaints and evaluate complaints and do an investigation of alleged violations of the ethics rules and then kick that over to Congress to deal with it, rather than putting all the burden on this so-called bipartisan evenly-divided group of members. There needs to be outside pressure in order to make this system work more effectively.
PRICE: It certainly isn’t a matter of the two parties being equally culpable here. The Democrats have pushed every step of the way for being a process that is truly bipartisan with an equal division of members in authority on that ethics committee and Republicans have resisted every step of the way. It’s a good thing that the press is finally paying some attention to this and I hope the result will be, if nothing else, to shame them into doing their job.
THINK PROGRESS: For years, Democrats and Republicans in Congress have had a truce not to file ethics charges against one another. In retrospect, was this a bad idea?
OBEY: I don’t know that they had a truce. I think that you had some serious scandals several years earlier, especially with Speaker Gingrich, and I think that sort of shocked people. People were looking for ways to restore some civility, so maybe that was in their heads when they were reluctant to needlessly politicize ethics issues, but I think recent developments have demonstrated that we need much more aggressive action.
THINK PROGRESS: Our last question – why isn’t Roy Blunt as effective a leader as Tom DeLay?
OBEY: Well, there was a reason Tom DeLay was referred to as “The Hammer†because Tom didn’t just lead by persuasion, he led by intimidation, he led by muscle. I mean, this is a man who would bring in outside lobby groups in and trade associations and tell them that if they wanted attention and access, they had better hire Republicans in their operation. He created a marriage between K Street lobbying operations and the Capitol and Pennsylvania Avenue and that made him very formidable even as it gutted what democracy was supposed to be able to produce.
ALLEN: I would say it’s too early to say how effective Roy Blunt is, but clearly, the ruthlessness of a Tom DeLay has had a huge impact on the way the House has been run. Of course, right now, Roy Blunt’s going to deal with the fact that opinions of this Republican Congress are in the tank, and there are Republicans who, just as I said before, are really anxious, they’re afraid they’re going to lose their own elections – so it’s a hard group to manage. This is all the result of an underlying philosophy that we’re not going to deal with Democrats, we’re only going to rely on Republicans, and we’re going to force cohesion when it doesn’t even exist in many cases.
PRICE: Roy Blunt’s got his hands full. I mean, this is an agenda – a terrible way to try to start out a leadership career, cutting food stamps, and Medicaid, and student loans, and child support, while you’re at the same time giving tax breaks for dividends and capital gains – goodness, that’s a nightmare, for any leader. And the notion that Tom DeLay could pull this off, I’m not sure is correct. But, anyway, it’s Roy Blunt’s bad luck to be coming in just as President Bush’s popularity goes south, and conservatives are trying this power play to do all these draconian cuts to the most vulnerable people in society and Roy Blunt’s being asked to deliver on this. He’s guilty of, if nothing else, of bad timing, of trying to pull this off. But the notion that DeLay could come in here and do it – I’m not sure even DeLay could manage this.
THINK PROGRESS: Congressman Obey, Congressman Allen, Congressman Price, thank you for joining us for this edition of Think Fast.
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Corruption and lying should not be synonymous with politics.
And that goes for Republicans, Democrats, Independants, liberals, moderates and conservatives.
December 6th, 2005 at 2:18 pmDon’t forget to do your Patriot Duty….
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 6, IS NATIONAL CALL-IN DAY TO END THE WAR
Tuesday is the day! Congress Members get back to DC today, and we want to welcome them. We’re asking you to call, Email, and fax your Congress Members and ask for an end to the war in Iraq. This National Call-In Day – organized by Democrats.com, Progressive Democrats of America, and After Downing Street, together with United for Peace and Justice and many other peace organizations – aims to flood Congress Members’ offices with our message for bringing this war to a close.
Our message is simple: “I am calling to let Rep. ______ know that I think the Iraq war is wrong and all our troops should be brought home immediately!”
Take Action Below, or call the Capitol toll free 888-818-6641.
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/congress
And don’t forget to demand impeachment hearings.
December 6th, 2005 at 2:28 pmIt’s only corruption if you’re a democrat. If you’re a republican, it’s just politics as usual. If you’re caught with your hand in the cookie jar, just whine about the so-called criminalization of politics. Then, point out that a democrat did something similar at some point in time. That automatically exonerates you of all charges. Aint democracy grand. We’re spreading it all over the world.
“I was against using our troops for nation building before I was for it.” George W. Bush
December 6th, 2005 at 3:01 pmCertainly, the Republicans have their hands full. It’s tough as hell to promote legislation that the majority of Americans oppose. Especially when Jack Abramoff has been sidelined.
December 6th, 2005 at 3:13 pmit’s like we are electing multiple corporations to run the country. enron, ge, monsanto, shell, etc. all have their own elected officials that put the interests and the welfare of the american public last and their profits first. we need to clear the government of all corrurt practices, and this is as good a start as any. lets hope msm get with the program and really reports on who is owned by who. no doubt there are a few on each side that should be squirming right now. i will never vote for a repug again. more and more they look to be cut from the same cloth!
December 6th, 2005 at 3:28 pmI caught this yesterday on the radio and it was outstanding. Barney Frank’s description of repub process abuses that shut out the dems (and thus, nearly half of American citizens) sounded more like a deliberate coup d’état for permanent control than just a party run amok after years in the minority. Scary.
December 6th, 2005 at 3:36 pmEthics such as PAY Increases for themselves?
December 6th, 2005 at 3:46 pmEspecially, don’t forget the impeachment hearings.
December 6th, 2005 at 3:51 pmIt is a shame to see corruption and graft politicized in this manner, like it is a shame to see politics criminalized in poor Tom DeLay’s case.
December 6th, 2005 at 3:54 pmI caught this yesterday on the radio and it was outstanding. Barney Frank’s description of repub process abuses that shut out the dems (and thus, nearly half of American citizens) sounded more like a deliberate coup d’état for permanent control than just a party run amok after years in the minority. Scary.
Comment by beep52 — December 6, 2005
That’s war for you. And this is war. A cold civil war.
December 6th, 2005 at 3:56 pm“I am calling to let Rep. ______ know that I think the Iraq war is wrong and all our troops should be brought home immediately!â€
December 6th, 2005 at 4:00 pmPlease do NOT be This Years Ebenezer Scrooge .
I’ve been watching this thread since it popped up today. I am really curious what the ladies and gentlemen from the right side of the aisle will make of it. Guess I’ll just have to continue to wait.
December 6th, 2005 at 4:05 pmwhy do I keep losing my posts when I go to post them?
KillCon, I agree…the actions the administration are taking (and to the extent they swear by them) are not part of the typical political game – it is a cold civil war
December 6th, 2005 at 4:08 pm“I am really curious what the ladies and gentlemen from the right side of the aisle will make of it.”
Hard to imagine that anyone would have a problem with ethical government doing the people’s business. But I’m sure some of the RNCbots will have some nasty comment…or try to distract the thread from the topic at hand.
December 6th, 2005 at 4:16 pmnot a single Republicant… I guess ethics aren’t that important to them… actually, I KNOW this… Cheney stumping for DeLay is Exhibit A…
December 6th, 2005 at 4:30 pmI agree with Spudge in comment #1.
http://www.noagenda.org
December 6th, 2005 at 4:43 pmwwallace, I agree with you.
I don’t get to say that very much….
December 6th, 2005 at 5:03 pmRyan Neat’s post #17 is a clear violation of the Terms of Use. Where’s Judd? :()
December 6th, 2005 at 5:06 pmI think the low response to this thread speaks volumes about how people feel about Congress. Believe it when I see it…
December 6th, 2005 at 5:06 pmThat is a typical republican tactic. When they know they are caught – it’s everybody doing it. Nice try, wwallace. And in typical fashion.
December 6th, 2005 at 5:32 pmwwallace, pull your pants up and go home.
December 6th, 2005 at 5:33 pmFor the record – I agreed with Spudge #1 comment.
I don’t agree with wwallaces link to a dumbass lying & defamatory web site.
my bad for not looking at the link earlier.
December 6th, 2005 at 5:48 pmwwallace post #19 is a clear violation of the Terms of Use. :()
December 6th, 2005 at 5:52 pmYes, but they keep making the point for us. They have no principles or scruples and their agenda sucks. An agenda is not always a positive thing. Sometimes no agenda is a good thing. They are blind to that.
December 6th, 2005 at 5:59 pmMy agenda is very simple. Let “conservatism” hang itself and crush itself under the weight of its own corrupt agenda and bury it while hoping that the moderates like Eisenhower or even the principled Goldwater conservatives take back control of the GOP.
December 6th, 2005 at 6:03 pmI predict the Right wingers are going to say that this is a stunt, concocted by the Dems.
December 6th, 2005 at 6:15 pmI think we are seeing lower numbers of Right Wing responses here lately because they are all on thier month long vacation now.
December 6th, 2005 at 6:19 pmre: KillCon2006 “Let “conservatism†hang itself…”
I’d like to think that, but lately I’m thinking right-wing power is so embedded that it’s like a cancer that becomes so pervasive throughout the body that there’s no turning back. They already have the executive and legislative branches, they’re soon to have the judicial and they’ve castrated the press (or have launched their own). Some would say they’ve co-opted the electoral process. Who’s left to hold them accountable?
December 6th, 2005 at 6:48 pmGood security is obviously not in the budget for these losers
December 6th, 2005 at 7:31 pmEthical politicians = oxymoron.
December 6th, 2005 at 7:42 pmComments #20 and #21 by ‘progressive and proud’ contain nothing but ad hominem. A clear violation of the site Terms of Use.
December 6th, 2005 at 9:05 pmkindness, #22: “I don’t agree with wwallaces link to a dumbass lying & defamatory web site.”
You forgot to post any evidence to back up your assertion. I didn’t see any lies or any defamation on that site.
December 6th, 2005 at 9:06 pmI read the congressional comments and the whole thing looks like a whitewash to me. We have the best congress that money can buy. As Edward Abbey said: “The only difference between a congressman and a whore is that the congressman makes more money.” The obligation is on them is to prove otherwise, to prove that the vast corporate funds they receive is not influencing legislation. Until then I’m from Missouri.
December 6th, 2005 at 10:39 pmOBEY: I think Jack Abramoff is an example. I mean, I think he’s an outrageous example of the system gone run-amok. I think he’s going to be setting new examples of outrageousness. But the problem is you have a culture of “anything goes,†which has been pedaled by the Republican House leadership, an attitude that rules are something to be gotten around, and I think Abramoff is an example of what results when you have that kind
of thinking.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for your Honesty(?) in your statement(s).
(Perhaps some Anti-Skid coating on that desktop)
Con-permisso..
“I think Jack Abramhoff is an Example”
Yeah Me too, a real fine example..of sumthin.
“I mean, I think he’s an outrageous example of the system gone run-amok”
And You just Woke up today, as the cabbage truck ran thru the house acrosst your bed….gone run-Amok. and Never saw it till some time after the incident today.
Wow. Just WOW.
“I think he’s going to be setting new examples of outrageousness”
As if ‘Outrageousness’ were the latest rage on the Catwalk…
Here comes the Blame Game…
“But the problem is you have a culture of “anything goes,†which has been pedaled by the Republican House leadership, an attitude that rules are something to be gotten around, and I think Abramoff is an example of what results when you have that kind of thinking”
December 6th, 2005 at 10:58 pmA Culture? A Bicycle? House? Attitude? No-rules? Kind of Thinking? Abramoff? Republicans?
‘When you have’,,,WHOA BACK UP bucko, dont include ME with YOU and YOURS. THis Very Much Looks Like a Barrel Of Monkies, Your Brethren Simians Gone Wild On Video!
The MAN in the ‘Yellow Hat’ out on Vacation and George in Charge.
Thank god! I’ve been hoping you guys would start podcasting. I can’t wait to listen to this on my way home tonight. Thanks!
December 7th, 2005 at 10:18 am