Bush’s Iraq PR Campaign Falling Flat
Bush’s Iraq PR Campaign Falling Flat
Early returns on President Bush’s desperate pre-holiday campaign to convince the American public that he has a plan for victory in Iraq are out. Much like his Social Security offensive this past spring, President Bush is failing to fundamentally change how Americans feel about Iraq.
Results from the latest The New York Times/CBS News poll, which began interviewing Americans after President Bush delivered his first speech in the latest Iraq campaign:
– Six in ten Americans disapprove of President Bush’s handling of Iraq, which is essentially unchanged since public disapproval of his handling of Iraq increased above 50 percent earlier this fall.
– Fully 70 percent of Americans do not believe President Bush has a clear plan for getting American troops out of Iraq.
– Nearly six in ten Americans (58 percent) believe that President Bush is making things sound better in Iraq than they really are, compared to one third (33 percent) who say that President Bush is accurately describing the situation in Iraq.
Though these numbers are bound to shift slightly in President Bush’s favor as the public relations campaign continues, they are not likely to alter the overall structure of American public opinion on Iraq for two main reasons.
First, a majority of Americans no longer find President Bush honest and trustworthy. Actions and results will speak louder than words to a skeptical American public, especially with a president who is no longer seen as a credible leader by a majority of the American public.
Second, and related to the first, the overall trend since President Bush’s invasion of Iraq has been driven by events on the ground in Iraq.
- Brian Katulis
Topic Cloud
Who knows, the “fight ‘em there so we don’t have to fight ‘em here”crowd may actually have to face the reality they’re on their own when it comes to fighting terror. Hope they’re up for it. Just want to let you know that Homeland Security Spy Cameras are only going to make them feel just so.
December 8th, 2005 at 2:48 pmHow will the Warhawks ever defend their soft, pliable hides with their own hands?
Give a FOOL enough rope and he ‘ll hang himself .
The american people have given this FOOL enough slack .
December 8th, 2005 at 2:49 pmLet us impeach him.
Some how, this has to be Bill Clinton’s fault for getting a blow job.
December 8th, 2005 at 2:50 pmThe poll numbers, while not good by any measurement, are improved over last month. The conservatives are cautiously celebrating the trend.
December 8th, 2005 at 2:51 pmhttp://www.congress.org/ congressorg/ issues/ alert/ ?alertid=8301916&content_dir=ua_congressorg
December 8th, 2005 at 2:52 pmStop the ‘Shoot First’ Law in Texas
“Shoot first, ask questions never” is now state law in Florida. The NRA is now pushing this law in Texas, but with your help, our partners at the Brady Campaign will stop them.
December 8th, 2005 at 2:53 pmAre you saying that conservatives are celebrating these numbers:
Sorry, but what the fvck is there to celebrate there?
December 8th, 2005 at 2:56 pmOT,Sorry.
December 8th, 2005 at 2:58 pmhttp://www.shootfirstlaw.org/#
Has the letter July letter from Ayman al-Zawahiri to al-Zarqawi Has been independently verified it has the appearance of being to good to be true?
December 8th, 2005 at 2:59 pmI ask because of the administrations track record of past F ups (Niger Document, Curveball, Aluminum tubes, Armstrong Williams, Lincoln group….)
#9
That letter was debunked the same day it was released. That is why you never hear any of Bush and friends referring to it anymore.
December 8th, 2005 at 3:04 pmU.S. considers pulling 30,000 troops from Iraq
Baghdad bomber kills 30 on bus
WASHINGTON (CNN) — The U.S. military is considering withdrawing 30,000 service members from Iraq following the December 15 election there, a Pentagon source said Thursday.
http://www.cnn.com/ SPECIALS/ 2005/ iraq.transition/
December 8th, 2005 at 3:04 pmThose numbers, while promising, need to be higher.
Too many Americans are still beguiled by this cheap hack.
When we hist 75 percent I will start to get excited.
December 8th, 2005 at 3:06 pmdear america,
what TOOK you so friggin long!?!??
December 8th, 2005 at 3:07 pmWonderful site here - I am so glad that someone is finally taking this Administration to task for it crimes against humanity. Shame on the vulgar nation who allows them to continue!!!
December 8th, 2005 at 3:11 pmIf they package it nice and market it right the people just may fall for dumbya’s bologna.
Wrong.
Dumbya is on a sinking ship. Corrupt GOP (Greedy Oil Parasites) everywhere, REPUGnicans flapping their gums while holding their index fingers in their ears. Delay, Abramoff, Cunningham, Libby scandals rampant. Krash-Kart-Cheeney saying the same old lies….
At what point does this country get back on the right track?
Jesus-Junkies thumping their bibles and claiming to be good christians while spewing their hate and racism…..
Has the entire country gone mad?
December 8th, 2005 at 3:12 pmHello,
Ellie in Texas.
I’m
Average TV Viewer in Texas. Welcome!
December 8th, 2005 at 3:16 pmI just moved to Austin from southern California. I love it here! I don’t anything about this place yet, but I am dying to find out.
I was scared there’d be a mountain of Bush-bots here, but there isn’t. They, like the rest of this country, see Bushie for who he really is.
December 8th, 2005 at 3:20 pmand I,m from Killeen, tx.. Hi and Welcome.
December 8th, 2005 at 3:21 pmpardon me for changing the subject, but to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the death of john lennon, we refer you back to the partyparty’s rendition of awol singing “imagine.”
[ed. note: since we last linked you to rx’s wonderful remix of this song, the website, audiostreet.net, has begun requiring registration. however, it’s easy to register, and quite worth it, if only just to hear awol’s own words sing lennon’s thoughts (with some of lou reed thrown in, don’t ask us how or why, but it works).]
December 8th, 2005 at 3:22 pmthere is much to see in tex. i, ve only been here since 91
December 8th, 2005 at 3:23 pmBush’s overall job rating has bounced back up in most polls to about the low 40s (except for Rasmussen which is 5% higher or so). His actual ratings on Iraq continue to stay about 60% anti, 40% pro, but the overall are bouncing a bit.
And all that’s not too surprising. A lot of people had a lot of faith in the whole war-on-terror thing for a long time. Also, it’s Christmas which gives a lot of people the warm and fuzzies. I’d also venture that the GOP attack does generate some bounce as does the whole Democrats-are-divided story. You look better if you’re opponent looks bad.
December 8th, 2005 at 3:26 pmDon’t let the gerrymandering fool ya! Texas is a liberal state!
December 8th, 2005 at 3:26 pm#6 We just left Tejas after 11 years and I really don’t think the Shoot first law will be a big deal there, especially after they just passed a marriage referendum. I beleive as they say” From my cold dead hands.” As far as the ADMIN’S PR CAMPAIGN PR, campaign does PR stand for Propaganda Referendum? Does any of this matter? I think the danger is to let the Right attack the Patriotism of disenting Americans and blow smoke everyone’s ass by announcing UBL capture, mark my words this is coming. I posted this earlier on another thread but this is a great story about the Hatch Act.
December 8th, 2005 at 3:31 pmI think this bugs me more than anything else, give props to Fox if you can this is where the story came from. redstate.org/story/2005/12/7/16239/9682
FIF - where is Kileen with respect to Austin?? I grew up in Cali so it is much different here. Not much going on there either.
#21 - Who is talking about polls ? This president is a liar and people are waking up to that. That is what matters.
December 8th, 2005 at 3:31 pmof course it’s falling flat… he’s not had anything to pump it up with… more of the same, which all he ever gives, won’t do… people are tired of “the same,” which is that Iraq remains a total disaster…
it may be harder for Bush to do, but instead of holding speeches before friendly/captive US military audiences, he needs to hold them before John Q Public… there indeed may be people critical of him there, but at least people will see the Pres addressing someone other than his best pals…
Bush needs to rethink his entire public strategy… not that I wish to see him succeed…
December 8th, 2005 at 3:32 pmYou think his approval rating is doing better? Its Christmas and gas prices have fallen!
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wait until January and those first, big natural gas bills come in the mail. I mean, we are all going to be screaming for his AND Cheney’s asses.
December 8th, 2005 at 3:33 pmAbout an hour noerh of Austin, Next to Ft Hood.
December 8th, 2005 at 3:40 pmnorth, sorry. twas busy.
December 8th, 2005 at 3:42 pmget back with you all, later.
December 8th, 2005 at 3:42 pmKilleen is about 60 miles North of Austin, Ellie
I used to live in Temple, close to Killeen, Been in Austin 4 years now =)
Yeah Travis county voted against Bush lastelection,too bad the rest of the state was drinking koolaid =P
December 8th, 2005 at 3:46 pmI was stationed in Fort Hood for two years. It’s places like Killeen (Home of the Luby’s shootout in the early 90’s) that gives the NRA their ammo for their Shoot first initatives
December 8th, 2005 at 3:49 pmTop 7 Bush strategies for victory in Iraq (and things that would help sustain his current polls “bounce”):
Make an even larger “Mission Accomplished†sign.
Put that go-getter Michael Brown in charge.
Just do whatever he did when he captured Osama.
A little more vacation time at the ranch to clear his head.
Pack on a quick 30 pounds and trade places with Jeb.
Boost morale by doing his hilarious “Locked Door†gag.
Place Saddam back in power and tell him, “It’s your problem now, dude.â€
Thus spake David Letterman.
I know, I said this earlier. But… I couldn’t help myself. I’m still LMFAO over Dave’s words!
December 8th, 2005 at 3:52 pmIn question 28 of the poll, the “unfavorable” and “favorable” column headings look like they may have been switched.
December 8th, 2005 at 3:52 pmbushe will never have to explain to 2010+ dead military how it was ‘worth it’…now will he.
December 8th, 2005 at 4:18 pmMaybe someone should notify Tauscher, Rahm Emanuel, and Hoyer that being just like Bush on the war really isn’t a good thing. Read the goddamn polls and see that the American people are far ahead of you nitwits who are too damn scared to make a stand. Get behind Murtha, his swinging dick is big enough to protect all you pussies!
December 8th, 2005 at 4:41 pmAt what point does this country get back on the right track?
Has the entire country gone mad?
Comment by Revolted American
When we start hanging traitors like Murtha, Dean, Pelosi, Kennedy, etc., etc. That’s when.
December 8th, 2005 at 4:45 pmWhere what? Two weeks into this new PR campaign by this Adminstration and the polls have only gone up to anything perceptible…
This “training” meme can only last so long. We were promised in the first debate with Kerry by Bush that there was going to be 100,000 trained Iraq troops by Jan ‘05. Hello! America… remember that?
The only choice this adminstration has to disuade its critics is to arrest us, deport us, or hope god gives us Joe Lierbmen’s brown nose and lips planted on Bush’s arse for Christmas.
December 8th, 2005 at 4:49 pm“When we start hanging traitors like Murtha, Dean, Pelosi, Kennedy, etc., etc. That’s when.”
There you go using the word traitor again. Don’t you know that the Bush administration stopped using that term, because it made them look like whacko fringe NeoCons?
December 8th, 2005 at 4:50 pmI just moved to Austin from southern California. I love it here! I don’t anything about this place yet, but I am dying to find out.
I was scared there’d be a mountain of Bush-bots here, but there isn’t. They, like the rest of this country, see Bushie for who he really is.
Comment by Ellie in Texas
Austin is a hot bed of ratbastardcommiemofos. You’ll feel right at home. Don’t go North, South, East or West though. If you do, all your ass are belong to us. Welcome to Texas, at the very least I hope you’re not too ugly and your husband isn’t too gay.
December 8th, 2005 at 4:51 pmHey, I-RIGHT-I, how’s the hammer hanging? Its me, Joe. That was a good shot in #36 about hanging traitor like Murtha, Dean, and all the rest of those pinko commies.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I haven’t heard much about Bush’s second term agenda, have you? I mean, I’m starting to think his big plan to “save” Social Security is in trouble, you know?
When you say lame duck, is that supposed to be hyphenated?
December 8th, 2005 at 4:54 pmI-RIGHT-I: When we start hanging traitors like Murtha, Dean, Pelosi, Kennedy, etc., etc. That’s when.
Looks like I was correct about these bastards in post #37.
Your choice America is either democracy or trynany that representives of this right-wing, like I-RIGHT-I: exhibit clearly for themselves.
Now watch this turkey ironically decry “free-speach” when we critise him. Excuse me arsehole, you are the one who is clearly demanding execution for dissent.
December 8th, 2005 at 4:55 pmStop the ‘Shoot First’ Law in Texas
“Shoot first, ask questions never†is now state law in Florida. The NRA is now pushing this law in Texas, but with your help, our partners at the Brady Campaign will stop them.
Comment by freedom is not free!
It sounds like a good law to me. Since the New Orleans Black Flood hit Houston our murder rate has climbed significantly and we’ve lost about three police officers. I’m giving ammo to all my friends for Christmas. The Liberal Gun Grabbers won’t have any luck outside Travis county. You read it here first.
December 8th, 2005 at 4:56 pmRatbastardcommiemofo’s? Jesus.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but RIGHT has ever slipped a cog or missed his meds today.
December 8th, 2005 at 4:57 pmBush is not a lame duck. He’s a dead duck.
Does America still hang traitors? If so, we’d better start prep’ing Karl Rove, Scotter Libby, Dick Cheney, and maybe even the Head Chimp him self. If not, then pack ‘em up and send them to the Hague for a proper trial.
December 8th, 2005 at 4:57 pmyou are the one who is clearly demanding execution for dissent.
Comment by quicksand —
There’s dissent and there’s treason. Americans have almost figured out that the Liberal/Ratbastarcommiemofos have hidden behind the first amendment for too long and that their definition of dissent is really treason and sedition. I can hardly wait for my rope stock to go up.
December 8th, 2005 at 4:59 pmIn any event, Bushy’s PR on Iraq has failed.
People have no confidence in any one in the WhiteHouse telling the truth. They did this to themselves, but are happy to place the blame on others. This behaviour must be some special kind of GOP trait. Lucky for the rest of us, we can see through the veil of lies, smoke, and mirrors.
December 8th, 2005 at 4:59 pmI-RIGHT-I:There’s dissent and there’s treason.
December 8th, 2005 at 5:03 pmI wonder if you can define the difference? I doubt that you can. Sorry loser, but you had your chance to once-again run this country and you and your ilk have failed. I don’t really blame you personally too much as it is due to the weakness and selfishness of your unattenable worldview.
The World Wrestling Federation (WWF) today announced it will join ranks with the Republican Party sighting its shared values and disregard for reality. Vincent J. McMahon president and CEO of the WWF made the announcement at a republican fund raising event sponsored by the PWFI (Professional Wrestlers for a Free Iraq), “If the Christian Coalition can be considered legitimate, then we stand a good chance of being taken seriously too. I see a perfect marriage of hype and marketing where ridiculous behavior is not only accepted it rules!†said McMahon.
December 8th, 2005 at 5:03 pmPresident Bush welcomed the news sighting his love of professional wrestling and the diversions it could create. “We face perils everywhere in these days since 9/11 and the WWF can help to fight off those evil doers with those really scary masksâ€, said the president. The marriage of the two groups is seen by many insiders as a ‘firming up’ of the republicans core constituency.
Mr. McMahon presented official costumes along with WWF registered names for the president and key cabinet members. Included were the names Dick (The Deferrmanator) Cheney, Condoleezza (The TortureWench) Rice and Carl (Prince of Darkness) Rove.
The president will unveil his costume along with his new WWF name at a scheduled speech concerning the strategy for victory in Iraq. The third such speech will is to be held at ‘Our Lady of Perpetual Deafness’ an elementary school for the deaf in Washington. With growing criticism of a ‘No Questions’ policy in the previous speeches, the president said he will allow questions from the school children but added that the children can’t be coached.
Hey, I-RIGHT-I, that is quite a take in #45. Be careful with all that rope. You know what they say about giving a guy enough rope …..
Correct me if I’m wrong, but you are really on a roll. Did some liberal/ratbastardcommiemofo in need of a toilet shit in your cowboy hat or what?
December 8th, 2005 at 5:06 pmHey All,
I’ve been having a lot of fun on the most vile, neocon propaganda site ever. You can post comments without registering. Currently, it’s dominated by 10, ignorant neocons. There are only a few liberals on the site. If you want to have some fun with yokels you should check it out. Get yourself a name. If we can get enough liberals on the site, we can take it over and prevent it from making FOXNEWS viewers even more misinformed. A hostile takeover would be incredible. Here is the address (beware - this might be too fun)
http://www.newsbusters.org/
i beg of you. Help your liberal brothers and sisters fight the good fight.
December 8th, 2005 at 5:10 pmI-RIGHT-I:There’s dissent and there’s treason.
Remember Bosnia you turkey? Here, while your sizing necks up, be sure to include these “traitors” for the gallows too:
01. “If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy.”
—Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush
02. “Well, I just think it’s a bad idea. What’s going to happen is they’re going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years.” Joe Scarborough (R-FL)
03. “Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is.” -Governor George W Bush
04. “[The] President . . . is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy.
—Sen Rick Santorum
Source:
December 8th, 2005 at 5:13 pmhttp://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/3/17167/05105
#45 Don’t worry, IRI. The First Amendment won’t be around too much longer.
December 8th, 2005 at 5:15 pmIRI, the faithful Betamonkey, providing daily comic relief while spewing his verbal feces inside his mentally self-limiting mind cage.
Here’s your virtual banana, IRI —> (
December 8th, 2005 at 5:23 pmI-AMDIGGINGMYGRAVEDEEPEREVERYDAY-I said,
### Since the New Orleans Black Flood hit Houston our murder rate has climbed significantly ###
And there you have it people.
I rest my case.
December 8th, 2005 at 5:28 pmRatbastardcommiemofo’s? Jesus.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but RIGHT has ever slipped a cog or missed his meds today.
Comment by Joe Sixpack
I usually wait and take my Prozac and bourbon after my drive back to the homeless shelter. What’s the matter. Don’t you think Dean, Kennedy and the rest of these bastards are ratbastardcommiemofos? Either you’re getting soft or you’re really not a conservative…cough,cough.
December 8th, 2005 at 5:36 pm#45 Don’t worry, IRI. The First Amendment won’t be around too much longer.
Comment by cynical ex-hippie
You’re telling me. We’ve already lost Christmas to you heathen bastards and your lawyers.
December 8th, 2005 at 5:38 pmHey I-DONTKNOWWHATURTALKINGABOUTHEYMADEMESAYITHEYCOMEONGUYSTAKEYOURHANDSOFFMEDONTPUTTHATROPEAROUNDMYNECKSTOOOOOPPPPPP-I
Got your diapers ready???
December 8th, 2005 at 5:41 pmI-AMDIGGINGMYGRAVEDEEPEREVERYDAY-I said,
### Since the New Orleans Black Flood hit Houston our murder rate has climbed significantly ###
And there you have it people.
I rest my case.
Comment by WORFEUS
Heh heh.
December 8th, 2005 at 5:42 pmGot your diapers ready???
Comment by WORFEUS
I’ll borrow one of yours.
December 8th, 2005 at 5:42 pmWhy, yours full already?
December 8th, 2005 at 5:45 pmI-RIGHT-I = I-FELCH-I
I had to look the term up, but I knew they’d have one for your fetish :()
December 8th, 2005 at 5:50 pm“You’re telling me. We’ve already lost Christmas to you heathen bastards and your lawyers.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I”
Christmas is no where defined in the christian bible, or christian teachings. It was made ILLEGAL by the Puritans, because it was a ‘heathen’ holiday of Yule.
If ignorance were TNT, MizzWrong could restart the big bang.
December 8th, 2005 at 5:52 pmHey I-Right-I, I notice your avoiding me. Come on, I’ve asked you pointed and precise questions. Care to answer it… or are you fresh out of talking points.
I’ll just assume the latter. It will save you any more embrassement. Run home and play with your Miss Prissy Pants doll, Cartman.
December 8th, 2005 at 5:53 pmHave you noticed how conservofascistmonkeykranks spend all their time defending their assinine beliefs and blaming absolutely every problem on liberals instead having anything remotely intelligent to say? History will judge your President as one of, if not the worst Pres. in history. When are you retards going to realize that once public opinion on a war begins to go down, it won’t ever rise again. “Boy I sure hate the war, but six months from now I’ll love it.”
December 8th, 2005 at 5:54 pmQuestion;
What is this?
December 8th, 2005 at 5:56 pmAnswer;
The one true statement made by I-AMONDRUGS-I said all night.
December 8th, 2005 at 5:56 pmbuzzbomb,
Digby describe the trolls this way:
“Conservative” is a magic word that applies to those who are in other conservatives’ good graces. Until they aren’t. At which point they are liberals.
December 8th, 2005 at 6:08 pmNow that would be funny Ryan,,,if it weren’t so true.
December 8th, 2005 at 6:12 pmThe more focused Bush gets on something, the more speeches he gives on the subject. The more speeches he gives, the more support he loses. A real persuader, this guy.
December 8th, 2005 at 6:24 pmWhen we start hanging traitors like Murtha, Dean, Pelosi, Kennedy, etc., etc. That’s when.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — December 8, 2005
Or burning you and you ilk out in your compounds, like David Koresh. Which do you think will happen first?
December 8th, 2005 at 6:40 pmLOL Spudge, I wonder where that Dress is?
IRI is wearing it Perhaps, I mean I Jest Ingest Not Henceforthwithly however, our War hero IRI.
HEY did he ever tell you that heSheritGuygal saved ENGLAND? and then heSheOrit Educated them As Well, that IRI, WOW, or WOWSER as the case implies, IRI must Be a DEMI-GOD considering his stature among Foos. What was your Emirical name, Oh Yes,
INSERTIUM
All HaLE The GREAT WISE AND NOBLE INSERTIUM!
December 8th, 2005 at 6:46 pmTHE SAVER OF ENGLAND
AND TEACHER OF ENGLISH LANGUAGE!
All Bow, and Puke
Oh come on I-RIGHT-I you aren’t that much of a tool that you really believe there is a war on Christmas. Dude, there are so many other topics you could post talking points for. But, the made up Bill O’Rielly GWOC is not even worth mentioning.
Okay, if you truly believe there is a war on Christmas, what do you think of George and Jeb both sending out Holiday greeting cards and not Christmas cards?
The Religious Right is up in arms (do I need to post a link?)against Bush right about now, say that he doesn’t act like a Christian. SOmething I have said here many many times.
December 8th, 2005 at 6:48 pmIRI you are the ONLY Windbag LEFT here Trolliping thru your Leying Lipps, WHO IS WE?
You and your Right Hand? WE WHO?
(looking around…WHOO..WHOO WHOO the HILLEL, GOES THERE?)
December 8th, 2005 at 6:48 pmThere is a war on Xmas. I’ve seen the press release AND the declaration of war. To the ramparts, Christian soldiers! No presents until dawn!
December 8th, 2005 at 7:37 pmIRI=Nazi
Treason
In law, treason is the crime of disloyalty to one’s nation. A person who betrays the nation of their citizenship and/or reneges on an oath of loyalty and in some way willfully cooperates with an enemy, is considered to be a traitor. Oran’s Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as: “…[a]…citizen’s actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation].” It is also generally considered treason to attempt or conspire to overthrow the government.
Traitor may also mean a person who betrays their own party, group, family, and friends.
One person’s traitor is another’s patriot. In a civil war or insurrection, the winners may deem the losers as traitors. Likewise the term “traitor” is used in heated political discussion — typically as a slur against political dissidents. In certain cases, as with the Nazi Dolchstosslegende, the accusation of treason towards a large group of people can be a unifying political message.
December 8th, 2005 at 7:44 pmIRI=despot, the kind we fought a revolution to rid ourselves of…
United Kingdom
The British law of treason is entirely statutory and has been so since the Treason Act 1351 (25 Edw. 3 St. 5) c. 2, which is unusual in English Criminal Law. The Act is written in Norman French, but is more commonly cited in its English translation.
The Treason Act 1351 has since been amended several times, and currently provides for four categories of treasonable offences, namely:
“when a man doth compass or imagine the death of our lord the King, or of our lady his Queen or of their eldest son and heir”;
“if a man do violate the King’s companion, or the King’s eldest daughter unmarried, or the wife of the King’s eldest son and heir”;
“if a man do levy war against our lord the King in his realm, or be adherent to the King’s enemies in his realm, giving to them aid and comfort in the realm, or elsewhere, and thereof be probably attainted of open deed by the people of their condition”; and
“if a man slea the chancellor, treasurer, or the King’s justices of the one bench or the other, justices in eyre, or justices of assise, and all other justices assigned to hear and determine, being in their places, doing their offices”.
In addition to the crime of treason, the Treason Felony Act 1848 created various offences known as treason felony. Under the traditional categorisation of offences into treason, felonies and misdemeanours, treason felony was merely another form of felony. While the common law offences of misprision and compounding were abolished in respect of felonies (including treason felony) by the Criminal Law Act 1967, which abolished the distinction between misdemeanour and felony, misprision of treason and compounding of treason are still offences under the common law.
During the Second World War, the crime of treachery, with a mandatory death penalty, was created under the Treachery Act 1940 [1]. Anyone who spied for Germany, committed sabotage or otherwise aided the enemy was liable to be prosecuted for treachery, which was easier to prove than high treason because allegiance to the Crown did not have to be proven. 17 people were hanged for treachery during the war. The Treachery Act 1940 was repealed in England and Wales by the Criminal Law Act 1967.
By virtue of the Treason Act 1708, the law of treason in Scotland is the same as the law in England, save that in Scotland counterfeiting the Great Seal of Scotland (the Forgery Act 1830 does not apply to Scotland) and the slaying of the Lords of Session and Lords of Justiciary are adjudged treason.
The penalty for treason was changed to a maximum of imprisonment for life in 1998 under the Crime And Disorder Act. Before 1998 the mandatory penalty was death, subject to the Royal Prerogative of Mercy. Lord Haw Haw was the last person to be prosecuted and hanged for treason.
As to who can commit treason, it depends on the ancient notion of allegiance. As such, British citizens (and British subjects who were Citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies) wherever they may be owe allegiance to The Queen as do aliens present in the United Kingdom at the time of the treasonable act (except diplomats and foreign invading forces), those who hold a British passport however obtained, and by aliens who - having lived in Britain and gone abroad again - have left behind family and belongings.
[edit]
History
The Treason Act 1351 formerly distinguished two varieties of treason: high treason and petty treason. High treason was punishable by death; if executed, the traitor’s property would escheat to the Crown. Individuals convicted of petty treason surrendered property to their immediate Lord. The murder of one’s lawful superior, i.e. a servant killing his master, a wife her husband or anyone his or her prelate, amounted to petty treason. High treason covered acts that constituted a serious threat to the stability or continuity of the state.
The fifth category of treasonable offences, namely counterfeiting, was abolished by the Forgery Act 1830. The 1351 Act originally also provided that if new treasonable acts not listed in the Act arose they could be referred to the King and Parliament, who would determine whether the act constituted treason or merely some other felony.
The punishment for treason was in former times typically an extended and especially cruel death. This remained unreformed until the 19th century. Previously, any method (in theory) could be legally used to carry out the death penalty —most popular in the middle-ages were hanging, drawing and quartering. The requirement that the body be hung, drawn and quartered was repealed by the Criminal Justice Act 1947 (1947 c.80).
A notable treason trial occurred at the Old Bailey in 1916 when Sir Roger Casement was accused of siding with the King George V’s enemies for his role in the Easter Uprising in Ireland and encouraging Irish soldiers in the British Army to desert and fight for Germany during World War I. Casement tried to argue that as an Irishman, he was a foreigner and could not be tried in an English Court. This fell through as he had been in the employment of the British Government almost all his adult life as a diplomat and had accepted a Knighthood from the King and a pension from the British Government on his retirement in 1911. He was hanged in Pentonville Prison on 3 August 1916 and is regarded as a martyr by the Irish Republican movement to this day. His case is often cited as a classic example of the political dimension to the crime of treason where one man’s treason is another’s fight for freedom.
The last execution for treason in the United Kingdom was held in 1946. The defendant was William Joyce (a.k.a. Lord Haw Haw) who stood accused of levying war against King George VI by travelling to Germany in the early months of World War II and taking up employment to broadcast pro-Nazi propaganda to British radio audiences for the duration of the war. He was awarded a personal commendation by Hitler in 1944 for his contribution to the German war effort. On his capture at the end of the war, Parliament rushed through the Treason Act 1945 (1945 c.44) to facilitate a trial that would have same procedure as a trial for murder. Hitherto, a treason trial not involving regicide would have to have had an elaborate and drawn out medieval procedure. Although Joyce was born in the United States to Irish parents, he had moved to Britain in his teens and applied for a British passport in 1933 which was still valid when he defected to Germany and so technically owed allegiance to Britain when he did so. He appealed against conviction to the House of Lords on the grounds he had lied about his country of birth when he applied for the passport and so did not owe allegiance to any country at the beginning of the war. The appeal was not upheld. He was executed at Wandsworth Prison on 3 January 1946.
It is thought the strength of public feeling against Joyce as a perceived wartime traitor was the driving force behind his prosecution. The only evidence offered at his trial that he began broadcasting from Germany while he had a valid British passport was the testimony of a London police inspector who had questioned him before the war while he was an active member of the British Union of Fascists and claimed to have recognised his voice on a propaganda broadcast in the early weeks of the war. Theoretically, the burden of proof on the prosecution in any British trial is much higher.
Later convictions for treason in the UK include Marcus Sarjeant, who fired blank shots at the Queen during the Trooping the Colour ceremony in 1981 and was jailed for five years after he pleaded guilty to a charge under the Treason Act 1842; and Michael Bettaney, who was convicted of treason in 1984 after spying for the Russians and jailed for 23 years. [2]
Along with piracy with violence and arson in Her Majesty’s dockyards, treason remained one of the last offences in the United Kingdom that attracted a death penalty. The death penalty for treason was abolished in the United Kingdom by Section 36 of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998[3] (1998 c.37).
On 8 August 2005 it was reported that the UK Government is considering bringing prosecutions for treason against a number of British Islamic clerics who have publicly spoken positively about acts of terrorism against civilians in Britain, or attacks on British soldiers abroad, including the 7 July London bombings and numerous attacks on troops serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. [4]
December 8th, 2005 at 7:46 pmIRI=Traitor, because his side will be on the losing side in any and all political debates for the forseeable future. The disloyal opposition.
United States
To avoid the abuses of the English law (including executions by Henry VIII of those who criticized his repeated marriages), treason was specifically defined in the United States Constitution, the only crime so defined. Article Three defines treason as only levying war against the United States or “in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort,” and requires the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act or a confession in open court for conviction. This safeguard may not be foolproof since Congress could pass a statute creating treason-like offences with different names (such as sedition, bearing arms against the state, etc.) which do not require the testimony of two witnesses, and have a much wider definition than Article Three treason. For example, some well-known spies have generally been convicted of espionage rather than treason. In the United States Code the penalty ranges from “shall suffer death” to “shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.”
In the history of the United States there have been fewer than forty federal prosecutions for treason and even fewer convictions. Several men were convicted of treason in connection with the 1794 Whiskey Rebellion but were pardoned by President George Washington. The most famous treason trial, that of Aaron Burr in 1807, resulted in acquittal. Politically motivated attempts to convict opponents of the Jeffersonian Embargo Acts and the Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 all failed. Significantly, after the American Civil War, no person involved with the Confederate States of America was charged with treason, and only one major Confederate official — the commandant of the Andersonville prison, who was charged with war crimes — was charged with anything at all. The decision not to prosecute Confederates was mostly due to the words and actions of President Abraham Lincoln, who considered peace and unity more important than vengeance. During the war, Lincoln issued a proclamation of amnesty for Confederates, and in his second inaugural address (1865) pleaded for a reconciliation “with malice toward none, with charity for all.”
Several people generally thought of as traitors in the United States, such as the Walker Family, or Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, were not prosecuted for treason per se, but rather for espionage. John Walker Lindh, the “American Taliban” fighter in Afghanistan, was also thought of as a traitor by many. However, instead of being tried for treason, he pleaded guilty to conspiracy to murder US nationals, aiding the Taliban and terrorist offences relating to Al Qaeda, even though he joined the Taliban before September 11, 2001, in the period when the United States was aiding the Taliban to help their destruction of the opium crop.
Treason has become largely a wartime phenomenon in the 20th century, and the treason cases of World Wars One and Two were of minor significance. Most states have provisions in their constitutions or statutes similar to those in the U.S. Constitution. There have been only two successful prosecutions for treason on the state level, that of Thomas Dorr in Rhode Island and that of John Brown in Virginia.
In 1964, an author named John A. Stormer wrote a book considered a backstairs political classic and titled it None Dare Call It Treason—the book unexpectedly sold seven million copies with little or no advertising. It was revised and reissued by the original author in 1990. The title phrase comes from a 17th-century epigram by John Harington:
“Treason doth never prosper: what’s the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.”
This phrase refers to treason defined as attempting to overthrow the government. Since its popularization by Stormer, it has been reused and paraphrased many times and has become part of popular culture.
December 8th, 2005 at 7:50 pmHey All,
I’ve been having a lot of fun on the most vile, neocon propaganda site ever. You can post comments without registering. Currently, it’s dominated by 10, ignorant neocons. There are only a few liberals on the site. If you want to have some fun with yokels you should check it out. Get yourself a name. If we can get enough liberals on the site, we can take it over and prevent it from making FOXNEWS viewers even more misinformed. A hostile takeover would be incredible. Here is the address (beware - this might be too fun)
http://www.newsbusters.org/
i beg of you. Help your liberal brothers and sisters fight the good fight.
Comment by MikeinNY — December 8, 2005 @ 5:10 pm
That’s Brent “Bozo” Bozell’s useless drivel website. Don’t give him the traffic. Let it die. Make those “trools” comes here, (you know they will) and give TP the ad revenue. Screw them.
December 8th, 2005 at 8:30 pmNo, That site is worthless. its just a playground without serious debate, I am staying here mike, with T.P.
December 8th, 2005 at 9:35 pmBesides, I don,t see the Fun(Pun) in it.
it could be fun if it weren,t so serious. people are dieing mike.
Sorry
sorry, mispell.
December 8th, 2005 at 9:53 pmDeath and Dying
Buddhist insights into death and dying.
death-and-dying.org/ - 8k - Cached - Similar pages
http://death-and-dying.org/
December 8th, 2005 at 9:54 pmThat’s Brent “Bozo†Bozell’s useless drivel website. Don’t give him the traffic. Let it die. Make those “trools†comes here, (you know they will) and give TP the ad revenue. Screw them.
Comment by KillCon
I just had a blast over there. Those folks are exceptionally poor in articulation of their political beliefs. It’s almost too easy. The only hard part is keeping up with the quantity of poorly reasoned and supported arguments that they proffer straight from the magnanimity and the benevolence that Fox News provides to its army of echo-chamber sheeple/clones. I ran a thread into the ground by continually restating what I was about, when I was, oh so typically, strawmaned for.
Go there for an ego boost, if you need one. LOL!
December 8th, 2005 at 10:25 pmIt’s sad that public relations and war whould be in the same sentence. In an illegal and unwarranted war where 2200 Americans, thousands of Iraqis have died, many more thousands seriously wounded, not to mention a country destroyed and no end in sight, and a problem pondered is how to manage the public relations. You’d think they would be spending 24/7 in pursuing a way to fix what they’ve ruined, instead of thinking of their how to spin it.
December 9th, 2005 at 12:27 amFinally, after all these years, the public is catching on that they’ve been had.
Let’s see, it was in Texas that JFK was assasinated, Texas gave us LBJ and Vietnam, now Texas gave us King George and Iraq. If I were a doctor and wanted to give the world an enema, I’d stick the nozzle deep in the heart of Texas.
December 9th, 2005 at 1:43 amNot all of Texas deserves the colonic!
I’m a Veteran (Infantry Medic) and a Texas Songwriter opposed to Bush’s war. I’ve been sharing my new song, “BushWhacked”, across the web during the past week and to my surprise, I’ve had 32,000 downloads in 6 days. It seems there is a voracious appetite for truth in cyberspace. I hope you’ll check it out.
High res. 9.3 MB
http://www.tomsongs.com/images/Bushwhacked_0001.wmv
Low res. 4 MB
http://www.tomsongs.com/images/Bushwhacked.wmv
Song only 3.4 MB
http://www.tomsongs.com/images/BushWhacked.MP3
In addition, check out my post in the Houston Chronicle and weigh in. I’m the “Lone Ranger” in George “Sr’s” home newspaper.
http://forums.chron.com/ n/ pfx/ forum.aspx?nav=messages&tsn=1&tid=39&webtag=hc-politics
December 9th, 2005 at 9:36 amNot all of Texas deserves the colonic!
Comment by Tom
Nope, just Travis Country. By the way six-string anti-war protest songs are passe. Hell they were out before Dillan learned to play. I think your best bet is Rap if you want to go that rout. By the way… Thank you for your service to our country. One more thing…mindless parroting of the Filthy Left’s talking points in song has a way of coming back to bite you. Dillan knew that and that’s why he didn’t do it for long. Good luck with your career but get out of Austin. That ain’t no place for a good country boy to be.
December 9th, 2005 at 10:22 amHey I-RIGHT-I , I seeing your still ignoring me. I know you have nothing else to add other than insults and you know that won’t brush me off. So, while your sitting here typing out pathetic insults, your Pretty Prissy pants dollie awaits your frustrated sex life.
Come on tough guy, rebutt or refute me.
December 9th, 2005 at 10:58 amHey I-RIGHT-I , I seeing your still ignoring me.
Come on tough guy, rebutt or refute me.
Comment by quicksand
Sorry, I didn’t realize you had addressed me. Be specific and I’ll see what I can do. But be patient, I’m multi-tasking as per usual.
December 9th, 2005 at 11:16 amExcept for the “mindless parroting” comment, relatively engaging dialogue. It seems I should not clutter your desktop as you appear to be mired in “quicksand” at the moment!
December 9th, 2005 at 11:59 amDo pay attention to the Backstabber behind the Curtain
December 9, 2005
A week ago top Republicans and Democrats exchanged sharp new words over the Iraq war as President Bush dismissed Democrats as “pessimists,” those raising questions about his strategy and calling for a troop withdrawal. Bush condemned Howard Dean’s remarks at a San Antonio, Texas, radio station when Dean said “the idea that we’re going to win the war in Iraq is an idea which is just plain wrong.” The president referred Dean’s words as “Oh, there’re pessimists, you know, and politicians who try to score points and our troops need to know that the American people stand with them, and we have a strategy for victory.” House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert quickly weighed in, saying that Dean had “made it clear the Democratic Party sides with those who wish to surrender.” Vice President Dick Cheney toss his two cents in, supporting the administration’s determination to resist a withdrawal of troops as “unwise in the extreme” to leave prematurely. “To leave that country before the job is done would be to hand Iraq over to car bombers and assassins,” Cheney said. Well, enough is enough. The Bush/Cheney Duet doesn’t have any plans to secure America or Americans. They have no tangible benchmarks for success and fail to provide an honest assessment of the reasons for the increased violence on the ground, and then ignore the real challenges of securing a lasting peace in Iraq and combating global security threats. The Bush administration has no true effective strategy for victory and no honest assessment of what is happening on the ground in Iraq. Unless Bush is willing to put aside all his “rose-colored scenarios†the mess and the carnage in Iraq will continue. And ignoring the increase insurgent attacks on US forces occurring at an all time like 100 per day according to the Pentagon the size of the insurgency is likely to increase at a lethal pace as well. Since the Administration has not given us a credible reading on the actual number of trained Iraqi security forces the impact of our prolonged occupation will determined the willingness of Iraqis to whether support the insurgency or not. Bush’s refusal for a benchmark of success is a sure fire for failure. Recently the Senate overwhelmingly endorsed an amendment calling the Bush administration to create a timetable to complete this war. Bush flat-out refused; wasn’t he who once demanded President Clinton a timetable when he was at war with Bosnia? And Bush and the rest of the war happy Republicans had the temerity to call Howard Dean a “pessimist?†All the above proves that the Bush administration isn’t really interested in providing security for our nation. Bush and the pro-war Republicans and the right-wing talking heads are only interest in draining the resources of our nation and the life’s blood of our citizens and our troops abroad. The recent 2100 plus deaths of our troops and the fiasco of the Katrina Hurricane are but small examples of Bush’s lack of compassion and cynical nature to bleed this nation dry and then some.
December 9th, 2005 at 2:12 pmAll the above proves that the Bush administration isn’t really interested in providing security for our nation. Bush and the pro-war Republicans and the right-wing talking heads are only interest in draining the resources of our nation and the life’s blood of our citizens and our troops abroad. The recent 2100 plus deaths of our troops and the fiasco of the Katrina Hurricane are but small examples of Bush’s lack of compassion and cynical nature to bleed this nation dry and then some.
Comment by Armando Gomez
Thank you Fidel. That was truly inspiring. It’s that kind of dim witted logic and twisting of the facts that’s going to win you your next “election”.
December 9th, 2005 at 7:15 pmI-RIGHT-I your truly pathetic. Just pathetic. You make claims that you do not support, chicken out on arguments when I, or others, expose you for the chickenshit, spoon-fed jackanapes that you are.
December 9th, 2005 at 7:28 pmI-Trite-I #91,
Left a refutation for you on that Wall Street Journal “dump” you took earlier.
You might feel more at home on redstate.org. They’ve got a lot of your microcephalic sibling-cousins there, and guess what…they all think just like you! Isn’t that wonderful news?
But hey, I gotta give you Bushites props. Bushiva is on fire in the polls…he gained 5 (count ‘em, no fool you only need ONE hand) whole points ’cause he done fixed de economy…”whatchu’ talkin’ ’bout Willis?”
Now be nice spudgeboy…
December 9th, 2005 at 8:55 pmA Rove indictment wouldn’t move those numbers up, would it?
December 10th, 2005 at 11:20 amThank you, I-RIGHT!! Silly me, I thought that was the Daniel (former “darling” of the left) Ortega posting at #90
December 10th, 2005 at 3:14 pmAttention!!! Progs, Pessimists, Dems!!! PLEASE hand Howard Dean a larger Microphone - I know conservative Dems were assured that Dr. Dean would have no policy say - how do you keep a “gift” like him under wraps -THANKS, DOC for that uptick in those polls - President Bush doesn’t care about those numbers - but we know you do!!
December 10th, 2005 at 3:25 pmFlighty Hermaphrodite #96,
Obviously your polluted gene pool prevents you from the capacity to utilize either long term or short term memory so let’s see if we can help set the record straight for you Bushite inbred faithful. George W. Bush himself said that there was no “winning” the war in Iraq to matt lauer on the Today Show.
If Bushiva (your god of war) doesn’t care about the polls then why is he wasting tax payer dollars and good fuel traipsing around the country making those droll, rehashed campaign stump speeches to the inbred faithful captive audiences?
You Bushites are so dumb you’d make watching grass grow a national sport!
December 12th, 2005 at 8:20 amI-Trite-I #86
You’re in need of some remedial tutoring. It’s entirely too disconcerting, and disheartening to engage special education students in political dialogue. Use reference materials and spell check from now on if you want to be the hog with the big cajones…
December 12th, 2005 at 12:07 pmBREAKING NEWS:
ABC/ TIME MAG NEW POLL
7 in 10 Iraqis say their own lives are going well, and nearly two-thirds expect things to improve in the year ahead.
December 12th, 2005 at 2:23 pmHey BILLC #99,
Isn’t that wonderful news!
Now take that same poll to the destitute taxpaying American citizens who used to live in New Orleans, but are now scattered like DANGBLASTED REFUGEES around the country- or living in their cars or pup tents!
You Bushites are moronic, treasonous scum, and America needs a purge!
December 13th, 2005 at 8:37 amWhen bush speaks about terrorists its as if he were talking to a mirror about himself really
December 18th, 2005 at 9:53 amcooking recipes
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January 1st, 2006 at 1:23 pmPLEASE GET THIS DORKHEAD OUT OF OFFICE LEGAL;— I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK AND I DON’T NEED HIS PROTECTION AND WE WON’T HAVE TO FIGHT ‘EM HERE; — ‘IF WE STAY ALERT AND DON’T PANIC AS THIS GOOFY BUSHKID IS TRYIN’ TO DO TO US.
January 18th, 2006 at 4:07 pmFree Verizon Ringtones…
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January 18th, 2006 at 5:22 pm