Lieberman Flashback: Questioning Bush’s Credibility Is Central To Democracy
Lieberman Flashback: Questioning Bush’s Credibility Is Central To Democracy
On Wednesday, Sen. Joe Lieberman argued that anyone who questions President Bush’s credibility while the country is at war puts the nation in danger. Lieberman, 12/7/05:
It’s time for Democrats who distrust President Bush to acknowledge that he will be the commander in chief for three more critical years and that in matters of war we undermine presidential credibility at our nation’s peril.
But when he was running for President, Lieberman directly questioned Bush’s credibility on the war. In fact, he argued that doing so was an essential part of our democracy. Lieberman, 7/28/03:
In our democracy, a president does not rule, he governs. He remains always answerable to us, the people. And right now, the president’s conduct of our foreign policy is giving the country too many reasons to question his leadership. It’s not just about 16 words in a speech, it is about distorting intelligence and diminishing credibility. It’s not about searching for scapegoats; it’s about seeing, as President Kennedy did after the Bay of Pigs, that presidents stand tall when they willingly accept responsibility for mistakes made while they are in charge. [Press Conference with Sen. Joseph Lieberman (D-CT) Re: War in Iraq, 7/28/03]
When he was running for President, Lieberman questioned Bush’s credibility on the war because that’s what he needed to do to get votes. Now, after his campaign flopped, he is attacking people who question Bush’s credibility on the war because that’s what he needs to do to get attention.
For Lieberman, this is about political opportunism, not principle.
UPDATE: Atrios finds another example of Joe’s hypocrisy.
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116 Responses to “Lieberman Flashback: Questioning Bush’s Credibility Is Central To Democracy”
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Joe must be a corrupt crony conservative
December 10th, 2005 at 3:25 pmsince hypocrisy seems to be his central
“value” too.
What was the name of that Democratic former mayor that endorsed Bush?
December 10th, 2005 at 3:33 pmLieberman seems to be sucking up to Bush in hopes of getting Rummy’s job. The honorable senator from Connecticut (note the irony) is right up there with Hillary Clinton in personifying what’s wrong with our government. Let’s vote out the entire Democratic leadership and start over. As it is, many people I know are talking about switching to Libertarian or other, lesser parties.
December 10th, 2005 at 3:37 pmCleaning out the white house, house and senate of the wrong doers is the first step, any Dems that are not doing their jobs or fall into the first catagory need to be gone also. If they are corrupt like the present administration they need to go to jail. Lieberman is nothing more than a self serving, Israel first, America last, kiss butt Repub in Dem disguise. Vote the bum out. He has a right to say anything he want’s but when not in our best intrests we have the right to disagree and vote him out…
December 10th, 2005 at 3:48 pmJudd, I think you’re wrong about why Lieberman is flipping. He’s been for this war from the very beginning — he’s a neocon in that sense. Sure, he pandered to the base in ‘03, but he’s back to his neocon views where he feels most comfortable. I don’t sense much opportunism right now; he’s essentially like Krystal and the rest of them — blinded about how badly this war is going because they so want to believe that we’re setting up a gov’t friendly to Israel.
December 10th, 2005 at 3:57 pmanyone why the word democrat is nowhere to be found on his home page? intersting………
maybe someone should send him this page and remiond him what party he is in
http://lieberman.senate.gov/
December 10th, 2005 at 4:00 pmOh Joe, Bush, Et Al… U R So Out Of IT…
Please Act & Talk Like U Have A Brain that Works ?
.
HELLO To All Citizens Of Planet Earth, even Joe & Georg.
Welcome & Help Build One Global Community .com
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Sing Johns Song ” IMAGINE ” As You Read This
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IMAGINE, Being Part Of A New Way 2 Operate Planet Earth
Working Together, All Around Our Earth, United
We Can Create A More Peaceful Planet of Earth Citizens
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Your Comments R Wanted & Welcome ECs, About this Project
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NEW INFO…
Many Ask - Y Do This ? Well-Because
WAR SUCKS - LOVE from the EARTH !
———————————-
And… OUR Earth Covered With Separate
Governments & Man Made Borders,
Does Not Work ! - It’s That Simple
Continued at
http://www.OneGlobalCommunity.com
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Thank U, ECs All
December 10th, 2005 at 4:01 pm.
What sets us normal thinking people apart from the neocons is…we don’t care what party a neocon belongs to..we despise them all the same.
December 10th, 2005 at 4:01 pmSharon #4,
I wholeheartedly agree. You hit the nail on the head. We are not a helpless people, and our vote is our power.
December 10th, 2005 at 4:06 pm#4 well said, Israel First, America Last
December 10th, 2005 at 4:10 pmHe is a kiss-ass, a Republican at heart, a politician who is pro-Israel more than he is pro-American. He must be seen for what he is: an opportunist, seeing a potential for political reward for himself and a greater opportunity to influence our government toward Israel.
December 10th, 2005 at 4:16 pmhas anyone heard rumors of joe running for president on the GOP ticket in 2008?
December 10th, 2005 at 4:25 pmLieberman has the same problem that all of the other unrepentent war supporters have. They are heavily invested in Bush’s policy in Iraq which, when you take away the spin, is a policy of delay and denial. They cannot face the fact that they have put us in a position where we have no good options. There will not be an Iraqi central government that is capable of overcoming the centrifugal forces tearing Iraq into ethnic and religious regions. To maintain the illusion of a central government requires the presence of large numbers of US troops to keep the Sunni and Shia civil war combatants from taking their fighting into the green zone. When we leave, whenever that is, the green zone and the central government will fall. They delay hoping a miracle will happen so they don’t have to face the american people and explain why they got us into such a mess.
December 10th, 2005 at 4:41 pmI think you’re right - that’s a good part of it, Alvord.
December 10th, 2005 at 4:44 pmIf no one questioned authority, we would still be a British colony.
Anyhoo, maybe Lieberman is now applying for that cabinet position.
December 10th, 2005 at 4:44 pmThe sad part for the Democrats is that JoMo was one of the few visible Dems who wasn’t a joke. All that’s left now are Kennedy,Kerry,Reid,Levin,oh good grief, those names are not ones to inspire confidence in the voters. 2008 is likely to result in the usual Presidential race: trying to select the lesser of two evils. Obama,anyone?
December 10th, 2005 at 4:56 pmCHRIS
Your vote is your power unless the vote is co-opted by those in power so desperate to remain in power that they steal votes and elections.
December 10th, 2005 at 5:00 pmCHRIS
Your vote is your power unless the vote is co-opted by those in power so desperate to remain in power that they steal votes and elections.
December 10th, 2005 at 5:00 pmCHRIS
Your vote is your power unless the vote is co-opted by those in power so desperate to remain in power that they steal votes and elections.
December 10th, 2005 at 5:00 pmAll this WAR, and Kapitalism, Has been brought to you by a GROUP of Intellectual Midgets, who think they ARE Greecian Gods, these people, if they can be called such, Have Confused the laws of nature, with THEMSELVES. Let Me say this, AND I WILL SAY IT ONCE only, THERE IS NO SUCH THINK AS A HUSBANDMEN,,
It simply Means Hydrogen..
December 10th, 2005 at 5:13 pmnow how stupid do you Monarchs feel?
More:
Lieberman op-ed, Washington Post, 7/7/2003:
But another kind of resistance is proving nearly as dangerous to our long-term security: the Bush administration’s stubborn refusal to change course and build a safer postwar Iraq in partnership with the world.
…
This is a time for firm resolve and clear thinking, not overheated dialogue. What our troops need from their leaders are real tools to fight their real enemies — not taunts inviting more attacks. The president’s “bring ‘em on” challenge, beyond being unpresidential, was unproductive. He shouldn’t focus on getting a rise out of the insurgents but on getting the insurgents out of Iraq.
Sounds like he was “undermining presidential credibility during a time of war”.
December 10th, 2005 at 5:18 pmContrast Lieberman’s actions to that of Eugene McCarthy, who died today. McCarthy stood for principle and integrity, railing against the immorality of the Vietnam War, willing to take on the establishment because he realized that Vietnam, like Iraq, was an excuse for American imperialism. There are very few Democrats today who can come close to achieving and attaining the idealism that McCarthy believed in while foregoing the political opportunism that people like Lieberman so crave.
December 10th, 2005 at 5:19 pmLieberman wants a peice of the failed policy.
When you look at this war logically this what you have, failure.
20% of Iraq are Sunni’s
Sunni’s are supposedly against the occupation in Iraq and continue to fight fiercly against the coalition.
Therefore, 20% of Iraq has beaten the crap out of American’s for three years.
I hate to see it if 100% of Iraq fought against us.
Some superpower we are huh?
December 10th, 2005 at 5:33 pmLieberman has always been an opportunist with no moral compass. In 1988 he was a conservative campaigning against Lowell Wiecker but a “Democrat” in front of Democratic audiences. In 1994, Lieberman was a “moderate” In 1998 Lieberman was a “moralist” in the Democratic party for speaking out against the Monica affair thus positioning himself as VP in the minds of the DLC party hacks. But in 2000, Gore gave Lieberman the nod (big mistake) and Lieberman flip flopped his few “conservative positions” on issues like vouchers and became a liberal overnight.
In 2004, opportunist Joe thought that being the “pro war” candidate could get him the democratic nominee but this backfired as his Joementum (defined as finishing 5th in New Hampshire and calling it basically 3rd place) sputtered.
Now Democrats realize that Joe is an immoral fraud and Lieberman realizes that he has about as much chance of getting an executive position with the democratic party as Dracula.
So opportunist joe will now spew the right wing lies blindly hoping to be SEcretary of Defense in 2006 and use that to get a VP spot on the Republican ticket in 2008.
Joe Lieberman is not a liberal nor a conservative. He’s just a sick bastard with no moral compass whatsoever who will say or do whatever he feels he needs to do to get more power in thos world.
December 10th, 2005 at 6:14 pmJoe Lieberman is a Trojan-Horse Republican! Call him Zell Miller’s soul brother if you wish too! The interesting thing is that old Joe has finally blown his Democrat cover, and has exposed himself as simply a GOP agent, shilling for Dubya and the Iraq debacle!
Time for Joe to GO!!! Dems in CT > vote him out of Senate!
December 10th, 2005 at 6:35 pmAll of those who have shown any inkling for 2008 seem to be afraid to challenge DUHbya. I can understand McPain and Lieberkosher kissing up but with a little squeak now and then to save their place in the pecking order of the Repub movers and shakers. Those that are going down hard and soon. What I cannot understand is with an approval rating of 30% for Bushco why the Dems are not out there kicking ass and taking names. They have 70% of the vote waiting for them if they just stand up and take the stand that they will clean house and start CLEAN. Not just more of the same shit in a different package. The well known Dems are just bootlickers and faux Repubs. I hoped that Hillary would borrow a pair from Bill and take the lead but she doesn’t seem to want to rock the boat. To be successful in 06 the Dems have to stand up and stand out. Every other word should be IMPEACH alternated with the name of some Repub incumbent. It is also our responsibility to kick someone in the ass and get them moving. We all have the same goals here and we should be offering up names, debating their respective qualifications, unifying our preferences and backing the candidate of our collective choice. At one time I preferred Hillary but I an leaning toward a new face. At the moment I would consider Obama but I would like to see a little of MLK’s fire and fury. From anybody, please!
December 10th, 2005 at 6:38 pmRalp Nader? or, that TexasBilliniae Ross Pero?
December 10th, 2005 at 7:01 pmFlip Flopper. Leiberman is a neocon. He’s also the point man in the democractic party for Ariel Sharon’s corrupt Israeli government. Lieberman will be worst than Rumsfeild!
December 10th, 2005 at 7:03 pmLieberman is still miffed at his failed bid for the presidency. He sees a role in the DOD, - in return for his bootlickint, and he’ll get it. Indellible memory: Bush leaving the dais after his last SOTU address, and walking directly to Lieberman for a photo op hug. The rest is history.
Demanding accountablity from Bushco is a fool’s errand. There is none. There will be none…and the Dems will never demand, in a unified voice, that the nation is entitled to be heard. No matter, more death and destruction take place every day, as political bickering and positioning turn this war into a deadly circus.
Important read: GW Bush: DEAF MAN, TALKING…..
December 10th, 2005 at 7:10 pmCLICK HERE
This is Propaganda and tyranny at its best.
December 10th, 2005 at 7:40 pmSo far he has refused to give the nation any explanations about what is really happening in Iraq. So far, George Bush has refused to address:
the failure to plan for our role as occupiers in Iraq
December 10th, 2005 at 7:42 pmthe chaos and bloodshed that intensify every day
the lack of water and electricity for the people
the failure of any significant reconstruction
the daily kidnappings and rampant crime
the mass exodus of doctors and other professionals
the use of torture by both Americans and the new Iraqi regime.
the widespread corruption and missing billions
the terrible effects of depleted uranium
the illegal and devastating use of white phosphorus
the fundamentalist government that is now in charge
the lack of body and vehicle armor for our troops
the tens of thousands of Iraqis who died at his hand
the claim by his own man, Ayad Allawi, that things are worse in Iraq now than under Saddam.
the five billion dollars a month being spent on the war
JUDD IS TRYING TO “SWIFTBOAT” LIEBERMAN!!! ROFL
December 10th, 2005 at 7:43 pmSorry, I meant to say,
December 10th, 2005 at 7:45 pmThis is Sen. Joe Liebermans Propaganda and tyranny.
Watch as others perform this stunt.
This man does not work for the American public. Isn’t that obvious to everyone?
December 10th, 2005 at 7:46 pmJUDD IS RIGHT.
December 10th, 2005 at 7:47 pmWwallace, You are Wrong.
This is Sen. Joe Liebermans Propaganda and tyranny.
Watch as others try to perform this stunt.
#32
JUDD IS TRYING TO “SWIFTBOAT†LIEBERMAN!!! ROFL
Comment by wwallace — December 10, 2005 @ 7:43 pm
You’re funny. Lie-berman’s quotes, above, speak for themselves. Ass.
December 10th, 2005 at 8:01 pmYou have to put some of the blame on Al Gore, who picked Lieberman for running mate in 2000, thus giving Lieberman a national stage and a national spotlight.
I think Gore picked him in hopes he would peel some right-wing support away from Bush. But it didn’t work. Real Republicans are not gonna vote for a fake Republican when they can vote for the real thing in their own party.
The Dems never seem to learn that the Republican lite strategy is a failed strategy.
December 10th, 2005 at 8:03 pmLieberman’s too slow to be swiftboated.
December 10th, 2005 at 8:05 pmwhere do you get your news, newsguy?
December 10th, 2005 at 8:06 pm#31 SORB
DUHbya hasn’t got time for that trivial stuff. He is too busy setting Presidential records. Here is the short list:
ordering the most executions in any State while serving as Governor.
December 10th, 2005 at 8:16 pmbeing the first President to enter office with a Criminal record.
having the largest annual budget deficit.
being President during the 12 month period in which the most private bankruptcies were filed.
being President during the 12 month period in which the most mortgage defaults were filed.
being President during the largest stock market loss in the history of the market.
having the richest Cabinet Members.
having the most campaign fund raising trips while in office.
the most private use of Air Force One (Including as a U-Haul moving van for his daughters).
receiving the most Corporate campaign donations.
having his largest campaign contributor presiding over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in the US.
allowing the highest gasoline prices in US history.
being President during the largest job loss in US history.
being President during the largest shift of jobs outside the Country in US history.
the most preemptive invasions of independent countries.
creating the largest (and probably the most inept) governmental bureaucracy in US history (Homeland Security).
breaking the most international treaties.
being the first President to remove the US from the Human Rights Commission.
being the first President to remove the US from the World Court of Law.
being the first President to violate the Geneva Convention.
being the first President to refuse entry into the US by the UN Elections Inspectors.
holding the fewest number of press conferences since the advent of TV.
taking the most vacation days in 12 months.
causing the US to be viewed as the most hated nation in the world.
having the greatest failure of diplomacy of any free world country.
not preventing the worst security failure of US history.
not responding in a timely manner to one of the worst natural disasters in US history.
having the most world protesters against any US President.
earning the distinction of being viewed as the biggest threat to world peace and security.
Clyde,
First, the governor doesn’t order any executions - juries and judges do that. In any case, the number of executions, compared to the number of murders committed, is way too low.
Second, how is that a “presidential record”?
Third, you are obviously an imbecile. ROFL
December 10th, 2005 at 8:24 pmwwallace ,you sure roll on the floor laughing alot. are you having fun?
December 10th, 2005 at 8:35 pmLots of fun, thank you sarcasm-impaired. ROFL
December 10th, 2005 at 8:42 pm#23
Susan,
Iraq has about 25 million people right? 20% of which are Sunnis. If they were all out to get the American troops that would be 5 million against about 160,000. I don’t know about you but those aren’t good odds. Secondly, the Sunnis are participating in the elections next week. You may not have heard that fact if you get all of your news from this site, which you probably do. If all of Iraq really wanted us out, believe me, we would have been gone already. Do you also know that the number of tips on the where-abouts of Al Qaeda has increased by ten-fold since the January election? Yes, they trust us and they want us there for now. Our troops will come home soon. Not on your timetable and not on our enemy’s. I also don’t mind debating the war and it should be debated. What I cannot stomach are Kerry’s and Dean’s comments this week that play right to our enemy. Finally, we are the world’s only superpower so get over it. There is not a war we can lose unless the enemy somehow hijacks our media and takes the fight away at home, which is what their strategy is and you and your friends are playing right to it. So, shut up and try to come up with any reason why America should vote democratic in ‘08.
December 10th, 2005 at 9:00 pmI have a candidate. An Illinois candidate. Rob Sherman, radio host (same station as the Debtonator Radio Show)and television personality.
He’s running as a democrat as a state representative. He knows he will unseat the current republican rep.
For more on Rob, http://www.robsherman.com
December 10th, 2005 at 9:02 pmFor president in 2008, I nominate Donald Trump. Our next leader must not be a politian.
December 10th, 2005 at 9:04 pmJudas Lieberman can pick up his 30 peices, cause the deed is done.
I knew him for what he was in 2000. He was a drain on the image of the dems, with his whiny, wimpering nasaly voice.
Everytime he opened his mouth, I knew he was trouble.
December 10th, 2005 at 9:04 pmOr maybe, just maybe, that’s what he needs to do to be able to look at himself in the mirror.
By the way, I just love it how you eat up a few hundred words without offering anything to support that Joe is ‘trying to get attention’. And considering the attention that Murtha got while Joe was saying just the opposite and getting nothing (until Dean’s outrageous comments), why would Joe think agreeing with the President was going to get him any attention at all?
December 10th, 2005 at 9:07 pmIf I could, I would nominate my great uncle in-law, Frank Capra.
Uncle Frank, (may he rest in peace) created the most popular holiday movie in history. Its airing right now on NBC.
It’s a Wonderful Life. Top that.
December 10th, 2005 at 9:07 pmOk, my uncle had a wonderful life :D
December 10th, 2005 at 9:24 pmJoe has left the building.
How can he support Republicans when they torture people? Just look at the facts on torture.
1. Now Republican lapdog Rush says on mediamatters.org that torture worked on McCain and even falsely states that McCain admits this. Not so. In fact, McCain gave BAD information in response to being tortured. 2. As of a few days ago, we now know that important intel before the Iraq War which falsely indicated that Iraq had WMD was obtained through torture. We got BAD information in response to torturing people. 3. All of the torture which we have inflicted has not led to the capture of OBL. 4. We now know that we did not even need torture to obtain the info needed to stop 9/11. We had all the pieces but just didn’t put them together. 5. Torture clearly doesn’t work. 6. Torture is immoral. 7. Torture is evil. 8. Even the Republicans know this and therefore have ridiculously claimed that their policy was not to torture people. 9. It would take about 10 seconds of “not torture” to make any of these weak Bush Republicans who have never been in a war themselves to admit that their policy is to torture, or admit anything else to avoid more “not torture.” 10. Torture diminishes US credibility and power. 11. Torture threatens the lives of US soldiers and other captives because the enemy is free of any moral barriers to torture. 12. Torture hurts our recruiting efforts. 13. Torture hurts our military’s moral. 14. Torture is a factor that has pushed down Bush’s approval ratings to very low levels. 15. There really is no good reason to torture. 16. Torture by the U.S. is going on today in Cuba, Iraq and through rendition. These facts and misguided Republican policy demonstrate that Rush and the other Republicans are out of their league. They lack morality and have low intelligence. If allowed to keep leading this Nation, the Bush Republicans will continue to pursue extremely misguided policy.
December 10th, 2005 at 9:26 pmJoementum must be stopped — he can’t be reelected to the senate. And, it’s time he switch parties. He’s no longer a Democrat.
December 10th, 2005 at 9:27 pm.
A little off topic, but just heard about Jeff Gannon? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gannon. Republican gay bashing bisexual prostitute masquerades as reporter and has strange all access to White House? Time to take the gloves off and hit the Republicans with their hypocrisy!
December 10th, 2005 at 9:35 pmA little off topic, but just heard about Jeff Gannon? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gannon. Republican gay bashing bisexual prostitute masquerades as reporter and has strange all access to White House? Time to take the Democratic gloves off and hit the Republicans with their hypocrisy!
December 10th, 2005 at 9:36 pm#41
Wally,
You did it again. Shame on you! An imbecile is defined as a feeble minded person having the mental age of three to seven years. I will wager my usual odds (My $20.00 to your glass of warm pee) that I have outscored you on any intelligence test that you may have taken and I won’t even collect if you lose. To save you more embarrassment, I scored in the 97th percentile on the College Graduate Record Exam (GRE)and turned down an invitation to join MENSA made by one of my employees. For your information the Governor of every State in our union has the power to grant a reprieve to the death sentence. Refusal to grant that reprieve is a tacit order to continue with the execution. The only thing wrong with the percentages of the executions ORDERED by DUHbya was the disproportionate number of Blacks and Hispanics he executed. If you were able to read and comprehend anything but Rover’s talking points you would understand that as long as DUHbya holds the office and the record it is a Presidential record by definition. Why don’t you go to bed and let the grownups have an adult discussion with out pesky inappropriate interruptions?
December 10th, 2005 at 10:03 pmCleaner, I am not sure, but, I think someone is pulling someones leg on this story. look at the dates. they dont even make since. he was kidnapped at age 12 in 1980s, yet he went to college in 1980. sorry
Background
James Guckert was a member of the Tau Kappa Epsilon fraternity when he attended West Chester University of Pennsylvania in West Chester, Pennsylvania, from which he graduated in 1980.
According to Alan Stang, Stangbooks.com, Guckert was kidnapped as a child in 1982 at the age of 12 while delivering newspapers. Apparently, his mother recognized him on TV as a reporter at the White House. The mother spoke to Guckert on the phone and he indicated he was too involved in criminal behavior to speak up about his kidnapping.
December 10th, 2005 at 10:03 pmLots of fun, thank you sarcasm-impaired. ROFL
Comment by wwallace — December 10, 2005 @ 8:42 pm
He’s as mad as a hatter. It runs in his family. Inbreeding, don’t you know.
December 10th, 2005 at 10:11 pmHey Randy your a goddam idiot!
“Tips” were very high in Russia during Stalen’s time too. Neighbor informing on Neighbor, worker on boss, spurned lover on X, business man on business rival. All these “Tips” got a lot of people killed or jailed. It worked out well for Russia, ehh? Just because we’ve got people informing on each other does not mean were winning. It just means more inocent people are going to die. Just like the for US Service men who died today.
December 10th, 2005 at 10:22 pmThe Joe of politics present vs. the Joe of politi
The quest for power can make some people say anything. In our political system, it creates people who blow with the political wind, whichever wind has the best chance of leading to greater power. Much the way we’ve seen changes in John McCain during …
December 10th, 2005 at 10:27 pmSorry, that’d be four US Service members dieing today.
December 10th, 2005 at 10:27 pmRandy aka Mr. Potter,
You sit around and spin your little web and think the whole world revolves around you and your money.
Well it doesn’t.
In the vast configuration of things I say you are nothing more than a scurvy little spider.
And that goes for you too wwwwwallace!
December 10th, 2005 at 10:38 pmWe’re big, we’re powerful and we’re imperialistic. We need a revolution but Americans will never revolt, we’re too goddam dumb. So the Blues should secede, and form a new nation with smart non-nazi people. What’s left would already be bankrupt, too poor to invade anyone. We could refuse a visa to George Bush. —and his mother.
December 10th, 2005 at 11:38 pmLieberman is a disgusting petty vicious little man
December 10th, 2005 at 11:38 pmhttp://www.sobran.com/tyranny.shtml
December 10th, 2005 at 11:49 pmLieberman should be placed under arrest as an unregistered Israeli agent.
December 10th, 2005 at 11:49 pm#44
December 10th, 2005 at 11:55 pmRandy
Forgot to mention that assholes like you are the reason we’re in this mess in the first place.
#42–Yes, ww does seem to spend a lot of time ‘on the floor’, beyond wierd.
December 10th, 2005 at 11:55 pmComment on post 44>Randy: It seems by your post that you are rabidly pro-war, so why are you sitting at your PC, and not in Iraq with a rifle in your hand fighting insurgents?
Those who back Bush, and his vile war of lies, must go fight in Iraq or shut the hell up!
As for Joe Lieberman > if he was decent he would resign from the Senate and apologize for being a warmonger too!
December 11th, 2005 at 12:09 amThis thread is getting vile. The original premise is that Joe Lie has turned against the United States and the Democratic party. He has lost trust on two counts. Just remember, every lie begins with Lieberman (In Deutsch - that translates to rake or rapist).
December 11th, 2005 at 12:24 amIn Deutsch: Lieb- translates to love, life.
I’m a firm believer, in politics, for voting for the ‘Lesser of two evils’–each and every time, for whoever is running for whatever post or position.
My thought is one should always be sceptical. No matter how a ‘politician’ presents their case they are human and falible and the nature of the political beast is to be conniving, pandering and deceptive.
If not now they soon will be because, as we know, power corrupts and so does ambition.
Trust less, verify more.
December 11th, 2005 at 1:00 amNear Stuttgart, there is a Lieberhaus with a big heart on it’s side. They are not selling St. Valentines cards there.
December 11th, 2005 at 1:34 amAdd my name to one of the list of people seriously considering leaving the Democratic Party due to the type of leadership provided by the likes of Lieberman and Hillary.
December 11th, 2005 at 2:25 amLieberman, aside from nauseating me whenever he speaks, sounding like a whining old woman, is a Neocon/AIPAC Dem.
Let me put it more bluntly. He has a dual citizenship and his allegiance to this nation is secondary.
I realize making a statement like that in this country, unfortunately, may resonate as a form of antisemitism when it’s not intended as such by any means.
It’s (some of) Israel’s (far-right) politics not the people I have a problem with.
It can’t be denied Israel (as any nation) naturally has its own agenda and it has people ‘in their pocket’ within our government from both sides of the political aisle.
On the other hand, as Americans, I feel it’s to our detriment to pretend this reality does not exist for fear of our criticism of Tel Aviv should be ridiculously branded as ‘hate speech.’
Personally, I’ve long been an admirer of Martin Buber, who was a Zionist, no less. One of my favorite books is ‘I and Thou’ by the man (available on-line.) What a great spirit. I wish Israel’s right-winger and its supporters around the world would read it (or reread it) and apply it. It would be a benefit to both Israel, the Palestinians, the Middle East and the rest of the world.
Before I digress any further, let me end by saying, Lieberman has to be reminded whom he truly represents as a Senator, before he strays even more with his torn allegiances.
My two cents,
EOTS
December 11th, 2005 at 5:10 amQuote: “He is a kiss-ass, a Republican at heart, a politician who is pro-Israel more than he is pro-American.”
LMAO. Who the hell isn’t ?
So you won’t vote for this guy next election. Fine. Name me the one democrat you will vote for who has stated that they support withdrawing troops from ALL middle eastern countries and for ceasing military support and security council intervention on behalf of Israel.
There are just as many Republicans on your ticket as there are Democrats hon. Zero.
So you have you actually have no politicians putting US interests above Israeli in the war on terror. So quit bitching like this guy is something special.
December 11th, 2005 at 6:01 amThe Democrats have been playing games with Iraq for far too long now. When it came time to put their money where their mouths are, they ended up looking like the whiny little babies that they are–only 3 voted to pull out of Iraq. Lieberman has had enough sense to distance himself from his train wreck of a party and to stand for what’s right. Naturally you libs don’t agree with his position so you’re obligated to trash him and everything he stands for…what a bunch of kooks.
December 11th, 2005 at 7:15 amUnless you reside in Conn. JoeLie does not want to hear your views on the war or anything else. Someone should remind this DICKHEAD that when he runs for national office, he represents ALL Americans, not just those of his state.
December 11th, 2005 at 7:41 am“Presidential credibility”? Lieberman has gone completely bonkers.
December 11th, 2005 at 8:37 am#77 plunger
I’t a kook conspiracy theory.
December 11th, 2005 at 9:42 amPlunger, Isn,t there a Cure for the Disease Called”Demon-cracy”?
December 11th, 2005 at 9:42 amPropaganda and Tyranny was Used By all WAR Thugs, Micheal and plunger. I suppose you must be getting paid to be Thugs.
December 11th, 2005 at 9:47 amJudas Lieberman demonstrates the down side of moderates. They are neither hot nor cold but go through life cherry picking what suits them from either side. At least with liberals or conservatives you know what you get, but with moderates you get the ultimate spineless flip-floppers. Lack of compassion, lack of insight, lack of committment, lack of courage. See you Judas.
December 11th, 2005 at 9:53 amLieberman as Sec Def is cause for concern. What qualifications does he have other than agreeing with Bush?
December 11th, 2005 at 10:28 amLieberman is apt to be more hawkish than a chastened Rumsfeld. Now that it looks like even the administration wants out of Iraq, a hawkish Sec Def is not what is needed.
With Lieberman its all about Israel.
A little off topic, but I had to get this in here. My source in Washington tells me that Bushlandia is not going to be very happy with his next several daily Briefins from the CIA.
These briefing papers tell Bushlandia what Murtha has been saying. If we pull out of Iraq, the insurgency will stop and the Iraqi people will take care of the small number of the Bush “terrist” om Iraq.
My take on this. It will not be publicized but Bushlandia will see the light, and start withdrawing from Iraq right after the first of the year. Bushlandia will then declare “victory” in Iraq, the troops will come home to big parades organized by Rovian authorities and Bush will be seen as a super hero.
There is one but however - Bush is so ignorant and so stubborn that he may throw a monkey wrench into any victory situation that rears its head. Why? Who knows.
December 11th, 2005 at 10:34 amHe’s a problem. Part of the weakness of the 2000 elections was that he sometimes seemed like a wolf in sheeps clothing. Now the sheeps clothing is off.
I hope that he doesn’t draw more of the good moderate voters into the war mongering party.
We need good solid unity to rid our country of the likes of
December 11th, 2005 at 10:40 amthe current administration and screwed up congress.
Like I said before Liberman talks out of both sides of his mouth. Thier are other Repbucans posing as Democrates. How about the one help push prescription drug plan .then on to have a job in white house. Shame on all of them traders goes back for as bibical times. Some day maybe be a free America again .Liberman fooled me as Gore`s running mate.
December 11th, 2005 at 11:47 amYou know, I never thought I would be saying this, but Judas Lieberman, a Democrat, should listen to the words of Lindsey Graham, a Republican.
Today I have more respect for Lindsey Graham than I did yesterday, not much more, but more.
I thought he handled himself well this morning on Meet the Press, responding to quotes he had made tying Saddam to 911, by saying “I was wrong”.
He also discussed how the republican led congress took him up to capital hill, and showed him the aluminim tubes and told him they were for nuclear weapons manufacturing, and how wrong that was.
He even spoke out strongly against torture, really strong, and joined Madeline Albright in condeming the practice and calling for the President to not veto the McCain bill to ban the practice.
He spoke eloquently, plainly, and at least seemed honest in his conviction. In fact, he gave me hope, hope that there are reasonable Republicans out there. (a hope that has faded over the last 5 years)
He demonstrated more character than Judas Lieberman ever has, and I applaud him for it. If I had not other choice, but to vote for Graham, or vote for Lieberman for President, I would have to pick Graham.
Way to go Lindsey Graham. Credit given where credit due.
December 11th, 2005 at 11:51 amDemon-o-cracy!
December 11th, 2005 at 12:04 pmComment to poster 75>Michael: You claim that we Dems play games on the Iraq fiasco? Sorry it is Bush and his GOP followers who are playing games on Iraq, and spewing lies!
George invaded Iraq to seize its OIL fields and NOT to bring democracy to that nation, nor to find WMD either!
95% of the insurgents are pissed off Iraqis wanting our
troops out of their nation, and about 5% are religious foreign nuts killing everybody! Like Rep. Murtha said: our troops are a magnet for insurgent attacks, and if we leave most of the attacks would cease, and the Iraqis would kill the 5% nutheads! So time to redeploy the troops out of Iraq within 6 months like Murtha suggests, so out by July 1, 2006!
As for Lieberman > he does not represent Democrats, since he is a GOP agent and a friend of Israel’s plump PM Ariel Sharon!
December 11th, 2005 at 12:33 pmLIEbullman is simply a shill for the Far Right. Simply put, you are either with the good moderate, progressive, and liberal people of America who only use force when necessary OR you are with the evil RW scum of the world who misuse our troops for personal profiteering and ivory tower agendas. Good riddance to any person, democrat or republican, whose ideology is inconsistent with this basic American premise.
December 11th, 2005 at 12:55 pmWe will need Republicans in this country to come forward and tell the truth. (it’s the pro-military, pro-troop thing to do)
The truth is Bush ignored 9/11, flew suspects (bin laden relatives) out of the country 48 hours later, failed to catch OBL, and then invaded Iraq which was led by an evil dictator but an evil dictator who was at war with Bin Laden and would kill any Al-Qaeda member within the Sunni triangle.
Bush clearly lied about WMDS, nuclear tubes, weapon inspectors, etc.. Bush went to war for 1) money 2) help the saudis 3) daddy-son issues.
The end result? Dead american troops. Iran developing nukes and run by a UBL sympathizer, Iraq aligning with Iran, Al Qaeda with more members.
Osama Bin Laden’s X Mas wish has been granted.
December 11th, 2005 at 1:00 pmThere is not a war we can lose unless the enemy somehow hijacks our media and takes the fight away at home, which is what their strategy is and you and your friends are playing right to it. So, shut up and try to come up with any reason why America should vote democratic in ‘08.
Comment by Randy — December 10, 2005 @ 9:00 pm
They knew all about you way back in 1965:
Pseudoconservativism is among other things a disorder in relation to authority, characterized by an inability to find other modes for human relationship than those of more or less complete domination or submission. The pseudo-conservative is a man who, in the name of upholding traditional American values and institutions and defending them against more or less fictitious dangers, consciously or unconsciously aims at their abolition. [He] sees his own country as being so weak that it is constantly about to fall victim to subversion; and yet he feels that it is so all-powerful that any failure it may experience in getting its way in the world cannot possibly be due to its limitations but must be attributed to its having been betrayed.
Richard Hofstadter, The Paranoid Style in American Politics and Other Essays, 1965.
Seek help.
December 11th, 2005 at 4:09 pmStrange behavior from Weelin’ Joe. It is the equivalent of upgrading from steerage to first class AFTER the Titanic hits the berg because suddenly all those nice suites free up.
December 11th, 2005 at 4:28 pmWell I think there is a difference between pre and post election. In 2003, it was fine to talk about Bush’s credibility because the people would choose their next president the next year. When Bush won in 2004, it is no longer constructive to be talking about Bush’s credibility because he’s going to be our president until 2009 anyways. That wasn’t the case in 2003. That’s the difference, so I don’t really see the hypocrisy in that. What’s more important now is that the nation finds a way to be successful in Iraq, not accuse the president of lying, since he’s going to be president until 2009 anyways.
Summary: talking about the president’s credibility in 2003 could have led to a change in leadership in 2004; but talking about the president’s credibility now will not accomplish anything.
December 11th, 2005 at 9:22 pmIts sad and heart wrenching for many of us Americans to witness Joe Lieberman… loyalty somewhere… power? oil? Israel? … who knows…
Everything is different now…. after all…
Heartbreaking MORE… for many of us Post WWII Americans to see religion become a part of our politics:
The Catholic derision against Kerry…and others.. Kucinich on abortion, etc… even the politcally well-timed and highly leveraged church-sex crises of the last 6 years. And ole EVIL-Beast Cheney cynically presenting Pope John Paul II a fragile glass dove for the cameras during the Invasion.
To the point: Symbols and Words… People and Deeds… Religion is now a central part of the USA’s Political dialogue and reality, oy vey… and what a SHAME that IS.
Now more than ever… Americans must, by virtue of necesity, it seems, must take into account Israel… and the Allegiances of Politicians to Israel.. be it Dual Citizenship.. or mere bounds in Jewish Religion or the shared heritage in Judaism.
This is a very disturbing turn of events for Post WWII Americans… who grew-up in sympathy and comfort with the Victimization of the Jews of Europe.
Yet. Today. Every Day. As of Late… we Americans witness Jews like Mr. Lieberman SUPPORTING TORTURE!!! Jewish Americans, of ALL PEOPLE!, on ALL the Major News Channels and Publications like the Washington Post and New York Times… DEFENDING TORTURE!!! Defending Aggressive Acts against the Human Rights of others. “HUH…WHAT!?”
What happened to the Humility and Peace, and Temperance and regard for the sanctities so preached and beseeched upon the Citizens of the USA regarding the evil conduct visited upon the Jews? Now we have, no less, an ORHTODOX Jew in Mr. Lieberman… flirting with every change of Principle, Party and Human Value… defending Evil and perhaps joining it.
And… at this point One must ask? “At whose bidding?” AIPAC of Espionage fame? Likud? Ariel? Challabi? “For Who? And to What end are your recent behaviours Mr. Lieberman?”
We HAVE a Nation of Americans– secular at its best– lured into FALSE WAR… at the hands of extensive collection of Neo-Con Jewish-Israeli Intellectual “Republican” chickenkhawks.
And Now! A past “Democratic” Presidential ticket VP and recent Presidential candidate is supporting the Illegal War, the War Crimes Torture … AND DENIGRATING US CITIZENS by telling us its not patriotic to challenge a siiting executive? !!! “HUH? WHAT?”
Is This a matter of Loyalty? Dual Loyalty? Performing as the Agent of a Foreign Government or Other Entity?
Shall we Remind You Sir of Your Oath of Office to this Constitution and Nation?
And Pop It! If this is a Trial Ballon… Dear Elite … Pop it! We have enough Israeli representation on hand with The Honorable Levin, Feinstein and Rockefeller… sniffing out the AGAIN STALLED Intelligence Query part-2 with Senator Roberts and his peculiar brand of Patriotism and Public Service…
And please… let’s not start with gathering the wood… Wisdom will serve us better… As we’ve seen with John Kerry and the Biscuit… folks get too sensitive about this religious stuff…
Here in America… The Founders New Better.
December 11th, 2005 at 10:53 pm..and God Blesses us all. Even Cheney!
Good post Citizen USA! Yes Lieberman is a Zionist, but more importantly he is associated with PM Sharon > who is extremely arrogant and in many ways fascistic! Joe has always been a marginal Democrat, but after 2000 he decided to back Bush and sold his soul to the “Dark Side”! I wish that Joe would wake-up, but he has become “Darth Vader”! He only spews lies now and defends the Iraq fiasco!
December 11th, 2005 at 11:26 pmSummary: talking about the president’s credibility in 2003 could have led to a change in leadership in 2004; but talking about the president’s credibility now will not accomplish anything.
Comment by Seixon
That’s not very convincing. You are trying to be funny, perhaps. That’s failing too.
December 12th, 2005 at 12:55 am“I say impeach now - clearly bush is the WORST president ever elected (as a significant percentage of historians have already agreed to be true).”
Yes, there is massive agreement about “WORST president”.
However, many millions of people realize that Bush has never actually been elected.
As, for LieberTurd… the most pathetic Neo-Nazi is a Jewish Neo-Nazi.
December 12th, 2005 at 2:24 amAnti-semites are always attracted to progressive causes like mothes to a flame. I’m not sure if they are GOPstapo operatives trying to plant the seeds of anti-semitism with which to later discredit a movement or just neo-nazis. What’s the difference really? Strauss, the father of the neocons was a Jew and an apologist for the Nazis. The scientist who invented Zyklon-B was a Jew. Capos were the Jews who worked at the death camps cleaning the ovens. Israel isn’t really the problem. It’s our support for the corrupt Arab regimes. Let’s blame the Jews, though. Everyone else does. Barbra Streisand is a Jew and the right hates here because she’s from “Hollywood”. Lieberman is a putz not because he is a Jew, but because he is a putz. wawa walla and IRritable bowel syndrome and Hermafrodite aren’t Jews, but they sure are putzes. It’s a little more complicated than that, but if I wanted an ally in the middle east for purely military reasons, (they sure don’t have any oil), I’d want the Israelis fighting with me not against me. I’m sure the double standard treatment pisses of the Arabs, too. With this administration running things, soon the Saudis will have the bomb, if they don’t already. Their money paid for the Paki bomb. Then the double standard won’t matter much.
December 12th, 2005 at 4:43 amIf these guys keep insisting that Israel be the 51st state, then I say we should tax them.
Representation without taxation is as dangerous as taxation without representation. The former leads to enemies without, the latter leads to enemies within.
Lieberman seems to come completely unhinged when it comes to Israel.
I have always been for the safety of Israel. (Frankly, I would just as soon have peace on Earth but, apparently, peace is not a big money-maker for certain CEO types; former CEOs included.)
Now I am re-thinking the knee-jerk reactions we have always had when it comes to the middle-east.
The horribly opressed and abused of the last century are becoming the oppressors and abusers of this century. Just one of the cycles of life on planet Earth.
December 12th, 2005 at 6:44 amKeep up the pressure on Bush and his apologist “Darth Vader” Lieberman!
December 12th, 2005 at 2:05 pmJoe Lieberman is one of several Dems who actually put our nation’s interest before their parties’ interests.
A suggestion for SpudgeMAN - you need to get a hold of Lisa Myers at NBC and “correct” her info about al Zawahiri’s letter re: Iraq, Zarqawi, etc. I watched a program on Jihad last night and she made several references to the letter which you so derisively dismissed 4-5 weeks ago. (FYI: Best not to rely on info passed along by RN.)
December 12th, 2005 at 3:51 pmDear Judd - Just curious - why would you reference this thread about Joe Leiberman to “Corrupt America”?? I was thinking it belonged under “Secure America”.
December 12th, 2005 at 4:48 pmCitizenUSA - that’s quite a nationalistic moniker, isn’t i?? Sniff- sniff…hmmm.. are you catching a whiff of a cattle car in here????
December 12th, 2005 at 6:27 pmHey Aphrodite- sniff sniff… Just Cattle– and Citizens lately.
How bout you? You a Citizen? Of the USA? Do you have Dual Citizenship with any other nation?
Is there something about A Nation called the USA that bothers you? Do you not like the honorable status conveyed by Citizenship?
Why does a logical, accurate and appropriate argument make you footnote vivid horror and suggest the worst from intellectual inquiry?
As for Nations. Is not Israel one of Grand stature? Of biblical and contemporary Worth. Even the recent history of the USA is one of birthing and nuturing the Nation State of Israel.
The pride of Israeli Nationals are exceeded by no one. As for the “ism.” Keep it. And discuss the merits of the matters facing our NATION.
Unless deception keeps us from looking and talking…
December 12th, 2005 at 9:13 pmBTW: What is the character of Israeli Nationalism, these days? American Citizens do want to know…
Never give in to Bush and his bad policies!
December 13th, 2005 at 9:48 amNever give up in fighting against his damn war!
Never stop criticising his stupidity and arrogance!
I EXERCISE MY RIGHT THE SAME AS YOU DID IN THE CAMPAIGN TO CRITISIZE BUSH ON THE WAR AND ANY OTHER THING THAT I THINK HE IS DOING WRONG. DON’T TELL ME THAT I CANNOT CRITISIZE GEORGE W. BUSH, IS THIS GOING TO COME DOWN TO A FREEDOM OF SPEECH ISSUE DURING A VERY UNPOPULAR WAR? ARE YOU TURNING REPUBLICAN? I DIDN’T SEE ON YOUR WEB PAGE THAT YOU ACKNOLEDGED BEING A DEMOCRAT. I AM A DEMOCRAT AND PROUD OF IT AND I AM NOT RUNNING FROM IT!
December 13th, 2005 at 2:07 pmJames
[…] Lieberman Flashback: Questioning Bush’s Credibility Is Central To Democracy (Judd, Think Progress) (tags: joelieberman spin politics asshat) […]
December 16th, 2005 at 6:19 pmDenimbo
great idea!
December 18th, 2005 at 7:14 pmJessica Simpson
Jessica Simpson
December 18th, 2005 at 7:17 pmpreservation yawn?taster!Hanoverianize:toad - Tons of interesdting stuff!!!
December 29th, 2005 at 8:33 pmFree Ringtone Download…
Free Ringtone Download…
January 18th, 2006 at 4:35 pmEt Tu Joe Lieberman?…
We know who you are Joe - so stop the perennial hand-ringing and fence sitting until the spotlight is on you and your agonizingly whinny decisions. We’ve seen it all before and it is very tiring.
……
January 28th, 2006 at 1:12 pmHey Dude ! Great site !
May 15th, 2006 at 10:07 pmHave a nice week.
Judas Lieberman: hahahahahahaha :-) I only saw this now. That is hysterical! :-) And so apt.
May 22nd, 2006 at 12:03 pmThe asshole is an israeli 5th columnist and agent, no doubt about it. The only reason he won again was because israel and their US agents funneled massive amounts of funds into his reelection campaign (go ahead, check where he got his money from). In my book, this guy is a traitor, with his loyalties and directions coming directly from likud party headquarters and mossad.
November 8th, 2006 at 10:54 pmthanx no comment
January 15th, 2007 at 9:56 am