Decision day for Ford.
By on Dec 13th, 2005 at 11:31 pm
Decision day for Ford.
“More than a week after the Ford Motor Co. changed its ad-campaign plans for gay magazines, executives from the automaker met with at least five leaders from LGBT groups in an attempt to quell growing concerns that the company caved in to pressure from an anti-gay group. Ford said it would have an official response by Wednesday.” Get the latest at AmericaBlog.
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Morons. They played this completely
December 13th, 2005 at 11:35 pmwrong. They deserve to go out of
business because they are too stupid
to make it in a competitive world.
Letting someone pressure them into
doing the wrong thing.
Idiots, but I suppose it fits
with the tradition of Henry.
Hell, if I was running Ford, I’d tell Don Wildman to go bang a prostitute, drop Toby Keith and replace him with
Nathan Lane.
In real life, that wouldn’t happen, but Ford should, at least, try to make it up to the gays and lesbians who buy their product. Disregard the religious right and just pitch the damn cars to everybody. That’s what companies should do.. not leave out a single demographic. Damn the consequences
December 13th, 2005 at 11:54 pmI’ve said this before: acceptance of gays is a VERY tangible social tenet. Especially among those under the age of 35. Which, I’d suppose, would be a demographic they wouldn’t want to exclude.
The Fundies are a significant MINORITY, and to cater to their whims while discriminating against gays–and importantly, the millions of Gen X and Yers who support and/or accept it–is the exact OPPOSITE marketing decision they need to be making.
Ford can deny this huge groundswell of gay/lesbian acceptance, but all they need to do is turn on the TV or even hit the movie theater to realize how back-assward their decision is.
December 14th, 2005 at 1:29 amAgreed, Punchy. Further. these ‘fundies’ all drive Focuses and Festivas while the gay Ford owners roll in Range Rovers. Wonder which car has the better profit margin?
Bad business, Ford, bad timing.
December 14th, 2005 at 1:40 amIt is the Fault of Religion.
December 14th, 2005 at 1:40 amThey accepted Gender mixture first!
You can trace it all the way back past Eygpt/Hebrew slave times.
December 14th, 2005 at 1:41 amWho buys cars only because there are ads in your favorite magazines and publications? Do you think Ford is anti-gay? I’d be willing to bet that there are plenty of gay and lesbian employees at Ford who are not in danger of losing their jobs because of their sexual orientation. The trouble with the homosexual community though is that it’s not enough for them to just be accepted in society–they want super-rights. Any crime or perceived injustice towards them is now a hate-crime or motivated by prejudice and hate. Gays need to quit being so sensitive and just buy cars for the right reasons: You’ve done your homework and have decided which vehicle you like the best in your price range. Leave the marketing stategies to Ford.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:05 amMichael, “they want super-rights”???
What planet do you live on, cuz it obviously aint this one! When was the last time you heard of someone being fired because of their religious beliefs? (I cannot think of a single one in the past 37 years I’ve been on this planet.) I can tell you that I was being offered a job until they found out I was gay. Then, suddenly, they didn’t have the funds for a full time position. Interesting how that works out. And here I thought we all had the same rights.
Equal rights do NOT mean “super-rights” or “special rights”. That is a canard that was concocted by the uber-fundies that want to force people to believe their special interpretation of “god” to everyone and to shove their faith down your throat at every opportunity. When you ask them to stop forcing their faith on you, they falsely cry “religious persecution!!” How can it be “persecution” when they are asked to not force people to believe what they say 100%, but it’s “special rights” when gay people ask to not be discriminated against based on orientation?
Religious freedom is guaranteed in the constitution. So any other laws that favor religion over other people, then THAT is “special rights”.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:51 amDemocrat Soldier,
December 14th, 2005 at 9:26 amAre you sure you didn’t get the job for some other reason–like maybe you weren’t the most qualified person for it? Why would an interviewer know about your sexual orientation anyway? It’s illegal for them to even ask–because it’s not a factor in your qualifications. See this is what I mean–you didn’t get the job, and you think it’s because you’re gay–the interviewer or the company must hate gays! They convenienly no longer have the funds to take me on because I’m gay! This is what I mean about super rights–most of you cannot handle the fact that not everyone agrees with your lifestyles. They don’t have to! But on the same token, no one has the right to mistreat you. When you are mistreated, you always think it’s because of your lifestyle. By the way the word hate-crime implies a greater offense. It also ensures that a perpetrater of the crime gets tried for his motivation for it–not just for his actions.
As a parent of a gay child, and our family drives Fords, I gotta say that they’ve lost an entire family of drivers (there are 6 of us). That will translate into a lot of lost revenue as we boycott and encourage other extended-family members who happen to love ALL of our kids regardless of their sexuality. There is no demand for “super rights” – we just want to make sure that all of our family members are treated the same. This idea about “super rights” for gays is just so much bullshyt used as a justification to deny rights period. If Ford is as stupid as they appear, they deserve to lose business. From here on out, we’ll go with Toyota – or any other car manufacturer who turns out a good, safe, energy-efficient vehicle.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:54 amSeefleur
I guarantee that Ford will sell each and every one of your family members a vehicle. They could probably care less what any of their sexual orientations are–in fact most people don’t really care. Stop trying to be the thought police-that’s all a boycott makes you. You’re essentially demanding that Ford taylors their advertising to cater to a certain group of people or you’re not going to buy their vehicles–super rights! If you don’t like their vehicles, then don’t buy them. BUT to try to manipulate the Ford company is just idiotic. It’s as stupid as Chistians Boycotting Disneyland for offering benefits to their homosexual employee’s partners. Not eveyone is going to embrace the homosexual lifestyle, and your actions demand that they must, or they will pay a price–again super-rights.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:28 amFord may think they just lost the few percent of GLBT’s but they lost a whole bunch more. There are a lot of us straight people who see this for what it really is. It’s agreeing to discrimination in order to satisfy the religious freaks who don’t have a clue to what being a good christian is. It’s like ol’ Henry’s still in charge.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:31 amI didn’t see any Tampax ads in my Car and Driver magazine, and that really pisses me off! After all some women read that magazine too. Sometimes I even have to buy them for my wife–I’d sure appreciate an ad so I’d have some kind of idea what to get. I’m going to tell my wife to stop buying Tampax because there were no ads tayored to me as a consumer of their products. Sounds stupid doesn’t it.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:36 amLast time I looked “gay” money spends the same way “straight” money spends. I can’t believe Ford fell for that fundie crap.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:15 amWhen Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign said, “Any effort to appease a handful of vocal extremists backfired and offended millions of fair-minded consumers instead,” he literally turned the situation on it’s head. Ford probably withdraw it’s ads so as not to offend millions of fair minded consumers, rather than appease a handful of extremists.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:44 amMichael, you didn’t read what I wrote in #10 – I said that Ford was NOT GOING TO BE BOUGHT BY ANY IN MY FAMILY. Ford can try to sell it’s stuff all they want, but we AREN’T buying from them based on their idiotic caving to a group that is trying to squash those that they don’t approve of. Substitute “black” or “Asian” for “gay” and you can bet that Ford would NOT be stupid enough to try this stunt. Then again, maybe they would…
December 14th, 2005 at 11:56 amSeefleur,
December 14th, 2005 at 12:37 pmIt seems like a pretty poor reason not to buy a vehicle that you like… you’re only hurting yourselves by settling for something that you don’t really want. Personally I think you’re better off with Toyota anyway—the quality is much better.
Funny, it looks as though Ford has more money for the trolls than the RNC does…
December 14th, 2005 at 1:37 pm#16
Ford says they didn’t cave in to the AFA, they only met with them. They also met with at least five leaders from LGBT groups. Do you have some information that counters Ford’s claims? Isn’t it possible that Ford changed it’s ad campaign plans for other reasons? Can that possibility even exist in the minds of pro-gay people? This isn’t directed to you personally, but people shouldn’t go through life interpreting everything that others say. It leads to some really wrong thinking. Take information at face value unless you have some facts to prove otherwise.
December 14th, 2005 at 1:41 pm#17 – actually, I hate Fords, my husband keeps finding these “great deals” on them, and we get them second-hand. So Ford isn’t really getting our money anyway :-> … I would be this angry at ANY company that panders to bullies in this way. The point here is that AFA is actively promoting hate and discrimination (and no, this isn’t too strong wording for what AFA does) and Ford is allowing them to use the company to do it. This sort of idiocy shouldn’t be allowed to go without comment. And those who believe that the bullies at AFA is somehow representing “Christian doctrine” need to do some serious researching on them.
December 14th, 2005 at 2:12 pmMichael – Taking any information at “face value” these days is a big mistake – and a maor reason for the country being in the situation that it’s in with Iraq. Thanks, but I’d rather not trust what “everyone” thinks/knows…
December 14th, 2005 at 2:15 pmTo anyone posting here who wants to put out there that gays are asking for “super rights” or “special treatment” or any other such nonsensical remarks, please bear this in mind: If Ford or any other company made the decision Ford just made and you changed the minorty affected from gay people to blacks, asians, hispanics, jews, women, middle-easterners, indian, etc., the prejudiced act would not have happened; the advertisement would not have been removed; the pressure would not have been put on by any group BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT BE TOLERATED BY SOCIETY BECAUSE SOCIETY HAS LEARNED THAT PREJUDICE IS WRONG. But no, in our country it is still okay to be prejudiced against gay people. Ford had an opportunity to be a leader and to make the world a better place by saying no to this prejudice. But instead, Ford caved in to a bunch of bigots. Shame on Ford. No gay person or any person for that matter should purchase a Ford product.
December 14th, 2005 at 3:08 pmMichael,
When I was told they weren’t going to hire me, I just figured that there was someone with better qualifications. I didn’t think much more about it, until I got a call from another head-hunter saying there was a job that I was perfectly qualified for at that company. I told them I already applied, and he said “When are you going to start work? They’ve been searching for your qualifications for months!”
I know it was my sexual orientation that decided for the “powers that be” because a friend of mine who contracted for the company and told me that the manager said “He’s the only qualified person to apply, but I’m not going to have a fag working for me!” He would rather not get the work done than to hire someone that he personally hated. When I found out that was the reason, I felt it was best that I didn’t work for someone who cannot seperate their hate from the job.
The manager was talking with me after the interview, and asked me “Will your wife have a problem with you moving to Dallas, or are you single?” My response: “Well, my partner is originally from San Antonio, so he wouldn’t mind the move.”
Let me guess, because I mentioned “he” when talking about my partner, then I was obviously shoving my sexual orientation in his face.
Despite your preconceptions, I am do not constantly talk about me being gay. If someone asks me if I’m single or married, then I say I have a partner. If they are bothered by that fact, then they can change the subject.
I don’t feel that if someone treats me differently then it must be because I’m gay. In fact, that’s usually the last thing I assume because it is such a stupid reason and I assume people are not that stupid until they prove they are.
When you want the same protections that other people already have, that does not equate to “special rightsâ€.
By the way, my friend ended up quitting that job when he found out what the true reason for me not being hired. He told the manager that since they weren’t going to hire the only qualified person to apply, he was going to move to a job where he didn’t have to worry about discrimination of that nature.
December 14th, 2005 at 3:12 pmFord already sucks anyway, they are just keeping up the good ol’ work. These domestic auto makers wouldn’t know a quality vehicle if it ran them over.
December 14th, 2005 at 5:39 pmDemocrat Soldier,
December 14th, 2005 at 5:57 pmI’m sorry that you have been discriminated against. Your sexual orientation should not have been a factor in you getting that job. I know you believe that was the reason you weren’t hired–and perhaps you’re right. I’ts just really hard to prove that kind of thing. Picture yourself in a courtroom being cross examined by one of their lawyers–could you prove that you were discriminated against? If yes, maybe you should sue them. If no, you need to let it go. Look everyone gets discriminated against. I too was not hired for a job I was highly qualified for. I’m white and the company hired four black men with no experience. This was in the early 1980’s, and it was because of affirmative action. If I was in the position to interview you for a job, and I felt you had excellent qualifications–I would hire you. If at some point in time I discovered you were gay, it would not affect how I felt about you professionally. Let me ask you a question. Is it ok for me to not agree with your lifestyle, but still respect you as a person? Because I have reason to believe that the gay community is intolerant of my right to disagree.
One more thing Democrat Soldier,
What kind of protections are you talking about?
December 14th, 2005 at 6:18 pmAs far as I know, you have the same rights and priveleges as I do–except for insurance coverage for your significant other, and having your unions recognized as marriages, but that’s changing!
GOOD NEWS!
It’s been reported that Ford will put their advertisements back on publications for gays and lesbians.
STRIKE UP ANOTHER VICTORY FOR THE USA!
December 14th, 2005 at 6:45 pmit’s because of all the bad press (that one particularly scathing), not because they care about supporting our communities.
December 14th, 2005 at 7:02 pmMichael: Here’s a question for you to think about: Why do you care who someone sleeps with? Frankly, it’s none of your business. But people like you, because of your bigotry, make it your business to know. You love the dirty details. Gays don’t care who you sleep with, and in fact, do not ask. Why do you want to make it your business. Who the hell are you to pass judgment on the lifestyles you do or do not agree with? F-ing get over it. And mind your own business. And why not give tolerance a chance. You might find you actually enjoy life a little bit more when you quit caring about whose “lifestyles” you do or do not agree with. And by the way, homosexuality is not a “lifestyle,” it’s a fact of life. Read up on it and you might learn something.
December 14th, 2005 at 7:59 pmGee Busted,
Thanks for the lecture. You prove my point very well–I’m not free to disagree with homosexuality. You see, it’s not enough that I still respect gays as people,and would never mistreat them–I must also rid myself of any negative opinion about their lifestyle, or be labeled as a bigot. I’m sorry my friend, but I believe in God, and I believe the Bible to be his Word–and it simply does not condone homosexuality. Now I respect your right to not believe in God, and your right to reject the Bible, but who are you to decide that it teaches bigotry, and all who hold to its teachings are bigots? Tolerance works in only one direction with you doesn’t it. I must tolerate you, but you don’t have to tolerate me.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:42 amTake a look at #28
It’s not enough that Ford put their ads back in the gay publications–They didn’t do it with the right motive! More proof that everyone outside the gay community must abandon their thoughts, beliefs and moral values–and embrace homosexuality. Ford extends tolerance, and this person returns the favor with intolerance.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:52 amMichael,
Do you feel that you are being unfairly impacted by the negative opinion concerning your heterosexual lifestyle? (You reference it in #30) Or would it be the negative opinions concerning your Christian faith? Or the negative opinions concerning your political affiliations?
That is now many gay people feel they are treated by non-gays.
My Christian faith has led me to treat others the way I would like to be treated. Therefore, I try not to broadly paint those with whom I disagree simply because their opinion is different from mine. I will react to insults with insults after someone refuses to engage in reasoned debate, but that’s only treating people as they have already treated me. “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery” or something to that effect.
December 15th, 2005 at 9:09 am#30: Gee Michael, thanks for continuing to be a bigot. Thanks for also assuming gay people don’t believe in God. Thanks also for putting out there that those who do believe in God are intolerant and hateful. Thanks for also trying to prove that you treat people with respect whose “lifestyle” you do not like. Thanks for also persisting in your belief that homosexuality is a “lifestyle” and not a fact of life. Thanks for flying in the face of God with your ugly hate speach. You’re boring, and you’re beliefs are outdated, and you are a bigot. Sorry, that’s the way I see it. And thank you.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:26 pmDemocrat soldier,
I feel that gays have come out of the closet, fought for acceptance, and that their movement has now become militant in demanding everyone must think and speak well of them. My comments have been directed towards that aspect. I disagree with the over-reaction from the gay community in this Ford matter. What it really amounts to is a substancial loss of revenue for the gay publications–and they played the bigotry card the same way the race card is so often played. Not everyone is going to like you as a person. Likewise not everyone is going to like homosexuality. You should be ok with that. I certainly have my opinions about homosexuality, but you should be ok with that too. If you’re brave enough to come out of the closet, you’ve had to reach a point where you don’t care what others think. I can live with that. You made some comments about insults, hopefully you don’t think I have insulted you–that surely has not been my intention.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:30 pm#33 Busted,
It doesn’t matter what I think about homosexuality–only what God thinks.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:32 pmMichael,
No, I do not feel that you insulted me. My comments were in reference to how I treat others who insult me, and then act outraged when I treat them the same way.
I think that we both are more centrist than our positions indicate. It’s my belief that people on either side of the aisle tend towards the farther edge when arguing their opinions simply because the argument tends towards that fashion. “You disagree with me, therefore you obviously embrace the extremes of your party!”
This, in my humble opinion, increases polarity and animosity towards those with whom we do not agree. Thus, the pendulum swings further and further in the rhetorical debate until “Nazi!” becomes the definition for those with whom we (initially politely) disagree.
Then again, when you visit web-sitea that state upfront “We are here to offset the lies and exagerations of conservatives/liberals”, it is no wonder that this is the general trend of the posts! ;-)
December 15th, 2005 at 2:10 pm#36
Well said my friend. It’s way too easy to get stuck on eachother’s issues–and totally miss getting to see the person behind them. You have my respect.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:31 pm#35. How right you are. Your comment, no doubt, is meant to portray God’s hatred of homosexuals. God does not hate anyone, since God created everything.
December 15th, 2005 at 8:04 pmBusted,
My comment is meant to say that judgement is up to God–not to me. As far as the Bible is concerned, homosexuality is no worse than adultry, or stealing, or lying. It’s says that ALL of us have sinned, and there are NONE that are righteous. In case you were wondering…that includes me too. You seem to be thinking that I’m using God to justify some kind of hatred towards you–I’m not, and I don’t hate you. I’m still entitled to an opinion though–I don’t agree with your way of life.
December 15th, 2005 at 11:44 pm#39: And I don’t equate homosexuality with adultery, stealing or lying anymore than I would equate heterosexuality with those sins. That’s where we differ. I don’t look at homosexuality as a sin anymore than I would look at heterosexuality as a sin. If homo is a sin, then by definition hetero must be a sin too. So we disagree. But I do not look at your lifestyle (for if homo is a lifestyle, then hetero is too) as something to be disagreed with or judged. It is who you are. God created you sure as he created me. And since God created you, who you are is a beautiful thing. Me too. We’re all in this together. Why not love each other instead of disagree and judge. There are plenty of bad things that people do in this world that hurt others and that we should be against, why make love one of those things. That’s what I don’t understand when people come after gays with their fangs and claws out and ready for battle (and I’m not saying you’re doing that, because you aren’t). Anyway, there you have it. Thanks for the discourse.
December 16th, 2005 at 3:02 pmWell Busted,
It comes down to whether you agree with what the Bible says or not. People aren’t opposed to homosexuality for no reason–it’s in the book, it’s very clear, and it’s not taken out of context. The evidence of all of us being sinners can be seen in this–we don’t want God to tell us how to live. We want to make our own rules. We are all in rebellion against Him. So yes, we are all in this together–we are all lost and in need of a savior.
December 16th, 2005 at 4:20 pm41: Again, we’re different people with different beliefs. I don’t believe in a God that hates. I see good in most people I meet. I don’t look at people as sinners. I don’t think we’re lost or in need of a savior. Is there good and evil in the world? Yes, there are both. Will good win over evil? I believe so. Should we have faith in that? Yes, that’s the only way to get by, by having faith. Is having faith what God wants from us? Yes, that’s what I believe. Do I make my own rules by stating what I’ve just stated? No, I don’t think so. You live how you want to live, and if that’s by using the bible as a guidebook, then right on. Go for it. I use kindness, courtesy, thoughtfulness, love and caring as my guidebook, and it works for me. And that’s what’s great about the United States (and hopefully it stays that way) that we can all choose to live our lives how we choose.
December 16th, 2005 at 6:56 pmThanks for the understanding my friend, I’ve enjoyed our conversation.
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