Snuck out the back door.
By on Dec 13th, 2005 at 10:44 pm
Snuck out the back door.
“A European investigator said Tuesday he has found mounting indications the United States illegally held detainees in Europe but then hurriedly shipped out the last ones to North Africa a month ago when word leaked out.”
View Most Popular
Advertisement
What We're About
What We're Fighting For
What We're Fighting Against
Featured
Subscribe to the Progress Report
Topic CloudView topics sorted by popularity
Afghanistan
Bachmann
Beck
Boehner
Business
Cheney
Civil Rights
Congress
Corporate Ethics
Dobbs
Economy
Education
Election
Energy
Environment
Ethics
Fox News
Gingrich
Glenn Beck
Global Warming
Health Care
Immigration
International Relations
Justice
LGBT
Lieberman
Limbaugh
Media
Military
O'Reilly
Obama
Palin
Pelosi
Politics
Race
Radical Right
Religion
Sports
Steele
Stimulus
Tea Parties
Tea Party
Terrorism
Veterans
Women's Rights
Visit Our Affiliated Sites
Reports
In-depth studies on select topics
Got a hot tip?
Have a hot news tip? We'd love to hear from you. Use the form below to send us the latest.
ArchivesBlog Roll
“Its Tuesday, we must be torturing them in Morocco today”
December 13th, 2005 at 10:52 pma strong case against torture.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:06 pmslate
If they use torture it must work otherwise they wouldn’t be doing it. If it saves an American life torture away!
December 13th, 2005 at 11:12 pmYes, American Hero, the ends always justifies the means.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:16 pmI emailed the Boston Globe just now – asked them to *please* pick the story up and actually REPORT it. Even brought up ‘ole “Tricky Dick” to illuminate my point, that objective reporting seems to be dead these days; but the bravery of the ones who DID challenge the system brought down Nixon.
Don’t know if it’ll work, but at least I tried.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:20 pmI get so incredibly frustrated, because sometimes I think there’s nothing we can do; that we’ll never be heard… and the jack boots of Dubya are just off in the distance…
I so incredibly fear for us and our country.
Yes, it does when it comes to American lives.
Might makes right.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:20 pmFunny how there is no evidence that torture works
December 13th, 2005 at 11:21 pmand an awful lot that says it doesn’t.
Maybe some people just like the power?
As for this administration and “must work”,
their incompetence in all manner of things
has disproved that idea rather thoroughly.
You should be afraid True Blue. There is nothing you can do. Welcome to the New America.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:22 pmNew America or same old Orwell?
December 13th, 2005 at 11:23 pmI am surprised that this is not a bigger story.
We are being investigated by the international community.
Isn’t anyone just a little bit curious what may happen if they decide we are culpable, or worse yet, that we are a danger to the international community?
Those who thought Iraq would show the world our strength, has done just the opposite. Now they know our exact troop strength, our weapons and capabilities, even our tactics.
Iraq acted as a reality show for the rest of the world, and it gave them a birds eye view of our conventional warfare capabilities.
It also emboldened countries like China, Iran, Russia and North Korea, to step out on their own. Does anyone think China will not leverage our invasion into Iraq as a launching point for their impending invasion of Taiwan?
Those of you who were so scared that big bad Saddam was going to come and get you in your sleep, ought to be more concerned about the real boogey men out there.
Because since our jaunt into Baghdad, they have gotten cockier and cockier.
And the new One China is going to test our real mettle, and when Taiwan goes into play, lookout, cause we might get all the war any us ever wanted.
December 14th, 2005 at 12:18 amTorture…maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t. However, the sole that is being tortured has been proven guilty not by a judge, a tribunal, a jury. The tortued has no right to consular access nor to access by the ICRC. The tortured has no lawyer or redress. The tortued have not been charged nor may they ever be charged. What if the person, absoulutely known beyond all “trust me’s” is an American citizen? Torture might not be seen as cruel and unusual punishment, just cruel and unusual interogation? How far can we bend it?
We don’t get ‘takebacks’ in torture. Whatever happened to the saying that ‘A thousand quilty men should go free before one innocent man is punished’? We should hold our head in shame.
A kid was ‘punished’ in Singapore about 10 years ago with a few beatings from a cane for a crime (petty, but still) and the United States was outraged.
We suck. We all suck.
December 14th, 2005 at 12:47 amWhew! Sounds like we got those prisoners out of there just in time!
December 14th, 2005 at 12:52 amIf they use torture it must work otherwise they wouldn’t be doing it. If it saves an American life torture away!
Comment by True American Hero — December 13, 2005 @ 11:12 pm
From your post is clear I cannot reason with you from the (in)human, (im)moral, and (un)ethical aspects of torture. But fact remains that torture is illegal, as are secret detentions, and detentions without due process.
Why they are torturing is anyone’s guess since it is a very well known fact that torture does not work -inasmuch as it does not produce accurate information.
Check out the first hand account of an interrogator in this thread My Experience With Abusive Interrogation Tactics.
I suggest you also read the comments by grim who is also an interrogator and an interrogation instructor.
December 14th, 2005 at 1:27 amIf they use torture it must work otherwise they wouldn’t be doing it.
Comment by True American Hero — December 13, 2005 @ 11:12 pm
Read this article and tell me if you still think “torture must work otherwise they wouldn’t be doing it.”
The latest domestic example is Chicago, where for nearly two decades (from 1973 to 1991) the police department virtually condoned the torture of more than 100 black criminal suspects. Those illegal techniques led to the wrongful conviction of dozens of black men, and even prompted Amnesty International in 1990 to call for an inquiry into police torture in the city.
Torture in the Homeland
I guess it all depends what you mean by “it works”.
December 14th, 2005 at 1:41 amTorture is only illegal if you get caught. I hope whoever released the info about us having detention centers around the world was “taken care of”.
December 14th, 2005 at 4:42 amThe word torture means: The infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion. No intellectually honest person can put waterboarding and sleep deprivation in the category of torture. We do it to our own soldiers in training. Every person who enlists in the military goes through sleep deprivation before they even get to basic training. They have you travel all day–waiting in airports and bus satations. You are awake for more than 24 hours before you meet your TI. That’s when they start breaking you down as an individual and put all of you tegether as a team. It’s effective and it works. This whole torture thing is so completely blown out of proportion that any fair-minded person can see that this issue is nothing more than an attempt to undermine Bush and the war effort.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:00 am#31 You got caught, not one, but many times in many cases. In photos. In fly logs. In beaten to dead corpses. If we all lived in a CSI-like world (a FOX drama!), there would be enough evidences to sentence your whole GOP and republican simpathizers to death.
#32 Any phisically forced declaration is made under torture, by definition. A human go mad or dead if is deprived of sleep for about 100 hours (only 4 days). Extreme cold can kill a human in 2 minutes (you know, the wet naked prisoner – air conditioner method). Liquid (water) deprivation can kill you in only a few days. You can drown in few seconds, if you swallow water, very likely in “waterboarding” (pretty word, ugly method, you know), you can choke in seconds too when immobilized.
By the way, the soldiers under sleep deprivation are doing it BY HIS OWN WILL, and never attain the levels (hours) of the prisoners. If they like masochistic methods, is their problem, they signed a contract demanding this type of training.
In the other hand, ask any army vet if he wants a guy with a grenade launcher by his side knowing he hasn’t slept the previous 3 days. A failed shot and goodbye.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:16 amHow do you suggest that information be coerced from unwilling terrorists who hate our guts? Show them what wonderful people we are in hopes that they will like us and want to cooperate?
December 14th, 2005 at 10:44 amMicheal, What info do You need that you dont allready Know?
December 14th, 2005 at 12:11 pmWhat info could Terrorists possibly Have that The Bush Admin Dosnt allready Have?????
December 14th, 2005 at 12:13 pmTHink People. Is Bush Really Seeking Info?? No, He Has ALL The info allready Availible to Him. He Knows EXACTLY Where the OIL IS!
#34 So you agree that is torture. Thanks!
And btw, if torture is so effective to gather info, where is Osama?
December 14th, 2005 at 12:25 pm#34 You’ve seen too many TV. Life is not as 24 (FOX drama about the kind-hearted spy Bauer, who can get express declarations with the full truth from detainees breaking some arms, and stop the ticking bomb just in time).
As said in other threads by a true int operative, if you are in such a 24-hours limit scenarios, is because you have failed already. More true intelligence, prevention and diplomacy, and less breaking arms would give better results.
December 14th, 2005 at 12:39 pmOh please tell me about life Evil Spaniard I don’t know anything! I’ve never even watched 24 so I don’t know what you’re talking about. The way you guys use the word torture is a gross misrepresentation of what our government does. You equate it with the cruelty and heartless brutality that our enemies use on our soldiers. Where’s the outcry about the methods other countries use, and the conditions our POW’s have endured? There’s none! The evil United States of America waterboard some of it’s captives, and the left in this country go berzerk. By the way Bush isn’t torturing anyone. The war is being conducted by the generals in the field. Maybe you should quit watching all those Star Trek the Next Generation reruns–where Captain Picard solves all conflicts with his brilliant diplomacy, and support your country.
December 14th, 2005 at 1:15 pmAs for you HOT TIP,
You don’t see any value in capturing an insurgent and getting information out of him? Like who are you working with? Where do you guys meet? How many of you are there? That sort of thing? Where do you think intelligence comes from?
December 14th, 2005 at 1:23 pmHopefully NOT From Someone as dimm witted as You, Dummy.
December 14th, 2005 at 1:51 pmSo, Lets Interrogate Bush, Find Out What He Really Knows!
December 14th, 2005 at 1:55 pm#39
a) As long as your country never declared formally war on Irak, you have no POWs in Irak. If you talk about your POWs in other countries, as far as I know, the USA has never declared formally a war since WWII, so they don’t exist as of today.
b) You invaded Irak under false pretenses, so your soldiers are illegal invaders.
c) You used scatter “daisy” bombs, depleted uranium, white phosphorus against people, bombed civilian population and violated many other rules of Geneva rules of warfare, rules who has signed the USA. And all of these methods, and more, before the insurgence started.
d) George W. Bush is “full aware, doesn’t live in a bubble” as he said few days ago and, as far as I think, to the day, HE is the chief of all armies, over any general.
e) Picard would never have invaded planet Irak. The scanners were showing no plasma weapons, planet Irak wasn’t sending Ferengi terrorists to the US Federation, Betazoid Counselor Koffi Annan wasn’t sensing any danger, Security Chief El Baradei had no time to verify for existance of enemy deadly tachyon impulses, and planet Irak was a primitive, fringe world without needed technological evolution to have high profile contacts with the US Federation.
December 14th, 2005 at 2:07 pmSo,
a) Torture (harsh interrogation methods) is not acceptable under any pretense.
b) If torture is used, the excuse “they do worser” is just this, a poor excuse.
c) In plus, if torture is used, the chain of command ends in G.W. Bush himself, nobody else.
All the rogue and bully methods used by the USA today are driving away the disgusted allies needlessly, in hard times for all.
December 14th, 2005 at 2:37 pm#32 Guess where we got that bogus intelligence? And guess how we got it? THAT is what you get from torture – lies that end us up in war. You should be tortured if you think it’s so groovy.
December 14th, 2005 at 5:28 pmVery probably, the ones advocating torture in the GOP are the same lazy scumbags who don’t had time to verify the plain lies of “yellow cake” or the fantasies of “Curveball”
December 14th, 2005 at 9:37 pmNaked Girls Naked Black Men Girls Naked
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 16th, 2008 at 6:23 am