Celebrate Christmas By Raising Minimum Wage
Celebrate Christmas By Raising Minimum Wage
[Our guest blogger, Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD), is the House Minority Whip.]
As Congress focuses on leaving town to enjoy the holidays, I stood in the cold before the Capitol Christmas Tree with Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) and Rep. George Miller (D-CA) today to call on Congress to act on the true meaning of Christmas – hope, generosity and good will toward others – and raise the minimum wage.
As a new report we released today with the Center for Economic and Policy Research details, families living on the minimum wage scrape and struggle each month to afford life’s most basic necessities. It is simply not possible for them to enjoy the holidays like the rest of us. No dozens of presents piled under the Christmas tree. No lavish meals on Christmas Eve and Day. It would take almost their entire December paycheck to afford the more than $700 that the average American spends celebrating Christmas.
Congress has the power to brighten the holiday for the almost 8 million Americans living on the minimum wage by increasing their paycheck.
Yet, this is the eighth year in a row that Congress has failed to enact even a small increase in the minimum wage. By freezing it at an inadequate $5.15 and ignoring the effects of inflation, Congress has essentially given a pay cut to these workers. In fact, if the minimum wage in 2005 was worth what it was worth in 1968 (its peak value), it would be $8.88 an hour.
How can the leadership in Congress leave Washington this week to enjoy a plentiful Christmas and a comfortable New Year knowing that their inaction has guaranteed another tough Christmas for millions of Americans?
This is just another stark example of how the Republican-controlled Congress does not have the right priorities for America. At the same time that they ignore the minimum wage and cut programs that invest in students and children, help our elderly and the poorest Americans, they vote for tens of billions of dollars in tax breaks that benefit the wealthy few. We can – and must – do better.
Representative Miller and Senator Kennedy have introduced a fair bill to increase the minimum wage to $7.25 over two years. Providing a livable wage to hardworking American families is not a Democratic or Republican issue. It is an issue of doing what is right and good.
Please contact your Members of Congress and urge them to pass the Kennedy/Miller bill before Congress adjourns this holiday season. This is a small gift that we can and should give to honest, hardworking Americans.
- Steny Hoyer
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Your economics is a joke.
December 14th, 2005 at 7:11 pmLowdown, your callousness towards the neediest in our society is a sad joke. Keep up the fight Steny!
December 14th, 2005 at 7:15 pmAs one who recently lived on minimum wage, I can sympathize with everything that was said. For me, Christmas is another source of anxiety -- not as much enjoyment as I would have hoped.
December 14th, 2005 at 7:18 pmNowhere in this country can a person survive on minimum wage. Nowhere.
Every year, Ted Kennedy requests that the $5.15 hourly wage (since 1987) be raised, and every year, after voting it down, they gove themselves a $3,000 to $4,000 raise to cushion their paltry $165,000 salaries.
We don't have an equal rights amendment, but the Representatives have a pay raise Amendment. Whose interest do they represent again?
December 14th, 2005 at 7:29 pmI am for an increase in the minimum wage.
A few questions though. How would this affect inflation? And also, what about teenagers just trying to make some spending money?
December 14th, 2005 at 7:36 pmI appreciate the sentiment, Representative Hoyer. I think it's important to understand, though, that a minimum wage increase may make many better off, but may also make a lot of people worse off.
Raising the minimum wage means raising costs to employers, and many of them will necessarily respond by reducing the number of people they employ. For the people who still have jobs, the wage increase is wonderful. For those who lose their jobs, though, it isn't much of a blessing. This is Economics 101 stuff.
December 14th, 2005 at 7:46 pmHoyer?? You encouraged and allowed Hoyer to post a blog thread here. That is so DLC of you. In fact it is downright centrist and nary much to the left of center right at all. Hoyer is truly the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothes. Please do the real progressives a huge favor and ignore him, even when he has something possibly meaningful to say; since it could have been better said and more reliably put forward by, i don't know, fifty other real progressive Congresspersons!!!
December 14th, 2005 at 7:47 pm"Your economics is a joke."
Lowdown,
Apart from your poorly written sentence, you've missed a major point. It is not Hoyer's economic system, the system you are referring to is capitalism led by and engineered for wealthy men. What I find surprising about the minimum wage debate is the simple fact that people with more money are better consumers. To my mind, the low minimum wage is reflective of both big business short-term greed and stupidity. One cannot pull themselves up by their boot straps if they cannot afford the boots!
jfran
December 14th, 2005 at 7:51 pmSure, raise the minimum wage. I have no argument with that. On the other side of that coin, how how about you and the rest of the jackals representing us rolling back your pay to where it was in 1987. While you're at it, put in place something that limits CEO pay from being over 400 times that of what the average worker makes as well.
A law ceasing ALL contributions to all representatives from lobbyists would be a nice gesture too. Maybe then laws would be passed that would actually help the voters, instead of corporate interests.
You could do this country a great service by lifting the Social Security tax cap to a minimum of $150K or higher also. Then we wouldn't have had to listen to this Douche-Bag-in-Chief insult our collective intelligence and waste taxpayer money with trumped-up city hall propaganda meetings about his useless version of setting up trust accounts or whatever he was babbling about.
Raising the minimum wage is a nice start, but why not offer some totally progressive reforms on top of it. You know, things that would actually help "we the people".
December 14th, 2005 at 7:53 pm#9.
December 14th, 2005 at 7:55 pm
$5.15 hour x 40 hrs/week = $206
$206 x 52 weeks/year = $10,712
Wow, $10,712! Is there anywhere in the United States that you can live for $10,712. I didn't take out taxes, because I think that falls below the "you don't have to pay taxes because you are so broke claus."
December 14th, 2005 at 8:00 pmRight on Spudge. which reminds me -- did you see that Morgan Spurlock documentary 30 days?? I think it was the first show where he and his wife tried to live on min wage and it was ridiculous. They couldn't do -- ended up in debt
December 14th, 2005 at 8:05 pmHe was standing by the Holiday Tree.
Why would there be a need to raise the minimum wage? The economy is doing great, I read it in all the papers.
Even at the minimum wage you pay Social Security and Medicare taxes.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:14 pmJack,
I did see that. You could see first hand how a family would drop deeper and deeper into debt, from which they could never recover.
Then the right wingers would say that they are lazy and just want government hand-outs.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:18 pmAnyone, even the dumbest liberal, who takes a basic college-level economics class knows that the net result of raising the minimum wage is a higher rate of inflation in the short term. Yes, it levels off eventually to normal rates, but the end state is that the higher inflation kills the effect of raising the wage. Furthermore, the overall effect of the higher-then normal inflation, with little actual increase in spending power, is a permanent net loss in buying power for the minimum wage earner. Everybody got that? RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE ACTUALLY HURTS IN THE LONG RUN. Those are the stark facts, and the reason why no politican with a basic understanding of Economics 101 supports raising the minimum wage. Wake-the-hell-up, people.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:20 pm#7
I don't know where you studied economics (FOX News maybe), but when people used to earn a higher wage (1968 was the peak in dollar to dollar comparion), CEOs didn't get 5 million dollar salaries and 15 million dollar bonuses. No one needs that much money when we have a limited amount of resources! The money isn't being taken out of the economy, it's being taken from the working class to make rich people filthy rich.
Besides, we're talking about paying people $5.15 an hour! How can you not be appalled by that???
December 14th, 2005 at 8:22 pm#12
I saw a study three years ago that said you cannot afford rent on minimum wage in any U.S. city. That was three years ago. I'm sure it's even worse now...
December 14th, 2005 at 8:27 pm#16. Have Any SOLUTIONS To the CRISIS?
December 14th, 2005 at 8:29 pmLets Hear it.
#16
Sorry to hear raising the minimum wage will deny you your champagne colonics... How dare some one actually want to eat this week instead??? Your compassion is astounding. Really.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:29 pmInteresting the name you chose to post under. A real American would care about other Americans, which you don't. So, you are not a real American.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:30 pmSoooo #16. What is your solution?
December 14th, 2005 at 8:31 pm#16, No Comment?
December 14th, 2005 at 8:32 pmHhhmmmm.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:32 pmI'll get back to you all in a minute..... my fiance' just called. Sorry.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:36 pmwell, we know where His money is Going,roflmao
December 14th, 2005 at 8:37 pm#24 is phoning a friend for assistance...
December 14th, 2005 at 8:37 pmYes Dear No Dear Whatever you say Dear. The money is in the Bank Dear.ROFLMAO
December 14th, 2005 at 8:38 pmNo one can live on $5.15 an hour. Congress always finds away to give themself a raise every year but the poor people get s*it. They do not care about the Middle and poor people of America and have no compassion.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:41 pmHeHe, ABOUT TO LOSE HIS FREEDOMS
December 14th, 2005 at 8:41 pmRecent Earthquake Activity in the USA
December 14th, 2005 at 8:44 pmMagnitude 3.0 - MOUNT ST. HELENS AREA, WASHINGTON
2005 December 15 01:26:21 UTC
What ever happened to the war on poverty that LBJ started back in the 60s. Been going on for over forty years or did you liberals just give up on that war too? Seems you don't have the courage or conviction for any kind of war. Anyone with a shred of intelligence knows that if you do raise the minimum wage, all you will get is a short term fix, which isn't really much of a fix anyway. If a person earning $200 a week suddenly gets $280, how much is that really going to help? What those individuals need are the opportunity to climb up the ladder and the way our economy has been expanding lately, they have just that. Instead of raising the minimum wage, we should ensure those people have the opportunity to go to college or receive technical training to get a better job. I would also like to see congress not voting themselves so many pay raises, but to have the pay raise as an issue on the ballet. If we the people feel they have done their job and deserve the raise, they should get it.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:49 pm#15 - This is a typical republican lie. In actual fact, every time the minimum wage has been raised, not only have no jobs been lost, but in fact the ecomony has expanded. The more people at the lower end of the pay scale make the more they have to spend thus boosting the economy. Oh yeah, I'm a dumb liberal who got an a in econ - which you've obviously never taken.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:49 pmHelp ThinkProgress Keep The Heat On
I did a segment on my radio show with the hope of bringing more visitors to Thinkprogress.
Listen by clicking on my name. Hear my response to Thinkprogress' call for help. Hear my response to your comments.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:53 pm#32
December 14th, 2005 at 8:56 pmI don't know what econ professor you fellated in order to get your A, but obliviously you didn't absorb anything from the class (except for his semen). Pay attention, because I'm only going to say this once: Increased wages equals increased spending. Increased spending causes increased demand. Increased demand causes a pinch in supply. A pinch in supply causes INCREASED PRICES. INCREASED PRICES EQUALS A RISE IN INFLATION. Got it? Now go back to class, moron.
#31, Our economy is not expanding in the sense that are you saying. Most of the jobs created are temp or retail jobs, with no opportunity for advancement and no security, and the median wage has dropped for the fifth year running. The other option is putting yourself further in debt by moving or going back to school.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:57 pmThe federal minimum wage should be abolished, there is not constitutional authority for the federal government to force employers to pay a certain wage. State governments don't have the same limitation. But of course liberals have no interest in constitutional limits.
Mot people earning minimum wage are unskilled young people living with their parents and without families to support.
Finally, raising the minimum wage makes it harder for unskilled workers to find jobs in the first place. Better to earn $5.15 an hour for a while and then move up than to remain unemployed.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:58 pmI read an article yesterday that stated that wages are not keeping up with the cost of rental property.
The article said you would have to earn over $15 an hour to afford a 2 bedroom apt.
The county I live in is the richest county in Illinois. The homeless population has increased dramatically. Those using food pantries has doubled.
Yep, even in an affluent county the economy is taking its toll.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:58 pmMyth: Raising the minimum wage hurts the poor by causing job loss.
Reality: Nearly 10 million working Americans would get a pay raise if the minimum wage is increased to $5.l5 per hour. As Nobel Prize-winning economist Robert Solow said, "[T]he evidence of job loss is weak. And the fact that the evidence is weak suggests that the impact on jobs is small." (Source: New York Times, January 12, 1995)
Myth: The only study showing that raising the minimum wage does not cost jobs was a study funded by the U.S. Labor Department.
Reality: One major study -- conducted in 1992 and financed by Princeton University and the University of Wisconsin -- was published by two Princeton University economists. One of those economists later joined the Labor Department. (Source: Washington Post, January 11, 1995) Furthermore, a similar conclusion has been reached by at least ten other independent studies.
http://www.dol.gov/asp/programs/history/reich/reports/pay.htm
December 14th, 2005 at 9:01 pmAs far as a solution to the minimum wage quandry, the fact is there is no solution. It is a no win situation, seriously. If people want to escape the minimum wage trap, they shouldn't turn to the government, anyway. Do the old-fashioned way, the way I did it, the way most successful people do it. Go to school. Make yourself more marketable. Get the skills necessary to make yourself worthy of a better wage. Join the military. What-the-hell ever. This is America, not France. Sink or swim, baby.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:01 pm#34.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:02 pmThats not much of a solution then, is it MAD American.
So, Iask you AGAIN, WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION TO HELP THE POOR AND POVERTY IN AMERICA..I.E..HOMELESS REAL MILITARY VETERANS THAT FOUGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOMS!
AND They ARE PISSED!!!!
A question for the neocon chickenhawks...
Who is going to buy your lousy products and services if consumers spend all of their money on living costs?
Other neocon chickenhawks? Do they like lousy products and services?
December 14th, 2005 at 9:03 pmwwallace thinks the 'constitution' comes from a high fiber :()
December 14th, 2005 at 9:06 pmI thought we were talking about minimum wage, nofreedom!? What do the poor (most of whom don't work at all), and the homeless (who DEFINITELY don't work) have to do with the minimum wage?
December 14th, 2005 at 9:06 pmHey fake American, I suppose you support the neocons at Walmart who help their employees sign up for govt benefits.
If you have a problem, tell it to Walmart, then you may have the right to call yourself real. Until then, you are the problem, not the solution.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:06 pm[Comment deleted by admin.]
December 14th, 2005 at 9:06 pmSusan, are you incapable of anything besides name-calling and lies?
The homeless are generally drug addicts and mentally ill. In other words, mostly Democrats. The minimum wage has nothing to do with it.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:06 pm#39. Are you even Old enough to vote yet? I understand you are soon getting married.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:08 pmFirst? Second?
You really know nothing, do you lowlife AMERICAN?
Ryan Neat has a degree in economics. And I'm the Prince of Wales. LOL
December 14th, 2005 at 9:08 pmwwallace, are you incapable of anything besides name-calling and lies?
The republicans are generally drug addicts and mentally ill. In other words, mostly trolls. The repeal of the minimum wage is just an excuse to repeal slavery and help lazy white republicans to get cheap labor.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:08 pmFirst of all, dickweed, I AM IN THE MILITARY. 5th BN, 82nd FA out of Fort Bliss. I've been on 3 different hazardous duty tours in my career. I DEFEND YOUR FREEDOM. Secondly, again, are we talking about the minimum wage, or what?
December 14th, 2005 at 9:08 pmI have a degree in economics. And wwallace is the Princes of Whales. LOL :()
December 14th, 2005 at 9:08 pmAND Who is PUSHING Drugs onto the so-called Addicts wwallace? YOU?
December 14th, 2005 at 9:09 pmMentally Ill are being taken care of you moron!
[Comment deleted by admin]
December 14th, 2005 at 9:10 pmIf you have a degree in economics, Ryan, then you should know better.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:11 pm[comment deleted by admin.]
December 14th, 2005 at 9:11 pmYou know that raising the minimum wage causes inflation, but you are too ideologically blind to tell the truth.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:12 pmARealIdiot,
Better than what, to call you an idiot and a fool for stating wild and unsubstantiated claims? You are a fool, and your posts prove it.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:12 pmNo dummy, we are talking about YOUR Solution!
December 14th, 2005 at 9:13 pmbeside Your too young too concieve the Fact of reality at your dumb young age, punk.
Go Ahead, Defend my freedom. I,ll laugh as you get your ass ripped apart!
You want to defend my freedom? Go To Iraq and Stay there, Until the WORLD Is FREE.
(What, you thought I didn,t serve?)Stupid Kid!
What are you, 20? 21? maybe 22????
Ryan-
December 14th, 2005 at 9:15 pmAgain, you know the truth, but you won't tell everyone else what the real deal is.
What is the name of the drug that Rush Limbaugh is addicted to?
December 14th, 2005 at 9:15 pmHow many 8 balls of coke did Bubble Boy do a day?
December 14th, 2005 at 9:16 pmnofreedom!-
December 14th, 2005 at 9:16 pmI'm 31, jackass.
And I'm not in the Air Force, moron.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:17 pmSusan,
Right on, great minds think alike :()
December 14th, 2005 at 9:21 pmYou may be a real american, but you're not a real economist. Raising the minimum wage causes unemployment in the short run because most companies without a proportionate increase in productivity will not hire the next marginal worker and reduce the work force to adjust to the legislated increase in wages. The theory is that the overall wages in the market as a whole will remain unchanged and the number of workers will decrease.
A monetarist would argue that only an increase in the money supply causes inflation i.e. more money chasing the same goods raises prices.
Raising the minimum wage is more likely to decrease overall employment in the short run but is unlikely to increase inflation.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:21 pmAnswer the question please chickenhawk neocons.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:22 pmWhy is the Federal Trade Deficit at its highest level?
Nathan Newman has a great retort to the illiterate and nonsensical 'inflation' argument.
The first argument that raising minimum wage would create inflation is ignoring the fact that the greed of our current business owners is also causing inflation. Businesses raise their prices whenever thy want but when workers ask that minimum wage be increased to keep up with inflation, the first thing out of the mouths of those against it is "Oh we can't raise minimum wage, it will cause inflation". Most of these people speaking out against minimum wage increases are business owners who themselves are causing inflation with their own greed. Businesses can increase our infaltion rate all they want but when workers need more income they are being greedy.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:23 pmWell, obviously the dialog is going downhill fast here. Since it is impossible to counter my arguements about the minimum wage, I guess I'll leave you fools to wallow in your own ideological cess pool. Get a clue, get off your ass, and stop bitching about the country. We've been going strong for 200+ years. It won't stop.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:23 pm[Comment deleted by admin.]
December 14th, 2005 at 9:24 pm#80 Is Right.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:26 pmIt Might Beehoove You To Listen Young Cadet.
HUA?
Come on guys, you know Paris Hilton is rich because she works so damn hard to earn those multi-millions... and the rest of us are middle class because 65 hours a week is just flat out lazy!!!
December 14th, 2005 at 9:27 pm#78 Ryan, Corporations are making huge profits which proves that they can pay higher wages. Its like you state, greed rules the neocon party.
Answer the question fake american. We are waiting.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:27 pm200 years to you may seem like alot of years, Am I right?
December 14th, 2005 at 9:28 pmThink again, The Hebrew Slaves Spent Fourty Years in a Desert. You Try that and tell me How long that Was.
Inflation = 15 billion each Christmas bonuses for the CEOs
December 14th, 2005 at 9:29 pmSusan,
He can't answer, because a moron who doesn't know crap about the stuff he was spouting nonsense on. Typical republican moron, all opinion, no expertise. Listening to republicans is like watching Brown run FEMA, it's just embarrassingly sad.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:31 pmFake American,, Are YOU POSITIVELY Sure That YOU want to DEFEND ME????????????And my FREEDOM??????
December 14th, 2005 at 9:32 pmBetter think hard, cause I dont give a rats ass about yours!
This huge gap in trade is why our economy sucks Ryan. I don't have a degree in economics but I do have a degree in common sense.
If common sense could be bought, fake american might have some but technology will never be that advanced.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:34 pmThe economy is doing very well.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:37 pmRyan, #43:
wwallace thinks the ‘constitution’ comes from a high fiber
:() Comment by Ryan Neat
That is the FUNNIEST thing I have read here,... maybe EVER!!!
I only got to your post before being stared down by a kid wanting to take over, but I HAD TO let you know before I had to leave that your comment made my night!!!
December 14th, 2005 at 9:38 pm-TB
True Blue obviously needs to get out more. LOL
December 14th, 2005 at 9:41 pmSusan,
There are a boat load of problems.
The fiscal irresponsiblity of poorly qualified federal spending.
The irresponsible tax cuts.
The low savings rates of americans that require huge foreign currency investments in T-Bills to finance the spending.
The out of control health spending brought on by corporate greed and healthcare/insurance consolidation.
The large number of unemployed.
The huge increase in poverty brought on by the inept monetary mismanagement.
The AMT on the middle class that has been a defacto tax increase on the people who should be getting a decrease if anyone should.
The list goes on and on. Basically EVERY opportunity to make a wise decision has resulted in the opposite and most irresponsible choice being made. This administration is a textbook case of FEMA quality economic mismanagement.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:41 pmwwallace obviously needs to get out more. LOL
December 14th, 2005 at 9:42 pmArguments about Economics are like arguments about the bible. There's an excellent chance you can find a study to prove your point and contradict another's point just as you can find a passage to prove your point or the other,pick one. The Robert Reich study mentioned above for example was one done at Princeton by the guy who,oddly enough ,went on to be Reich's lieutenant in the Labor Dept. And the study was part of Reich's argument to support Pres. Clinton's desire to raise the minimum wage. Which he did. I thiught for sure I at least offerred a reasonable counter to the inflation argument, which I suppose is why the (un)real american left.
Too bad the current President doesn't take that approach;just declare victory and get out.
The trade deficit is (a lot)oil imports since we're stuck importing something like 65% of our oil fix every day, including having to iport gasoline. We also seem to really like cheap Chinese goods to sell at all of our retailers. It can also be affected by the relative strength or weakness of the dollar. I try not to read too much into it.
The deficit is what will eventually burst this bubble. That and Medicare which wiil cause the country to eventually default on its debt.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:42 pmJust a request that we try to keep the dialogue civil and stay on topic. I think there is some good discussion in this thread. Let's keep it high quality.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:44 pmTJM ,
December 14th, 2005 at 9:46 pmNow Thats Words too The WISE! WAKE UP AMERICA.
Freedoms Not Free!
Sorry Judd.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:49 pmTwas the Night Before Christmas and the Tree was Bare.
No Money , ne Presents to Spare.
Just a Casual Argument to Bear.
Must Concentrate, Must Stay on Topic! Wait What is that I hear? Why Its Santa...Fill in the Blank.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:50 pmwwwallace, when you give the bubble boy permission to spend 1 billion dollars per week of my money to promote democracy in Iraq, then yes, you care more about Iraqi's than you do your fellow American. That makes you a traitor.
Your fellow American would appreciate a wage increase but can't have it because you stole our money and gave it to the Iraqi's.
Get it now or do you need a novel?
December 14th, 2005 at 9:51 pmSUSAN,
December 14th, 2005 at 9:53 pm"The Adventures Of
Salsbury Santa?"
Written By Sue.
Please answer the question posted wwwallace.
Why is the Federal Trade Deficit at an all time high?
December 14th, 2005 at 9:53 pmGood one freedom. Salsbury Santa and gravy for all. I want mashed potatoes with mine.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:54 pmwwallaces needs rehab ed.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:54 pmIn reading the posts here, it seems as if "Real American" (so self-named for his uncanny ability to absorb sound-bite knowledge?)was scared off when arguments actually based on the discipline of economics were posted. His GOP talking points just couldn't stand up to the scrutiny of those who have studied economics. But then, that has been the pretty much been the distinguishing feature of supply-side economics from its inception. To Ryan Neat and TJM: thanks for your thoughtful posts.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:54 pmoops, Meant REhab REed.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:55 pmAnd That , Coming From A 13 YO Female.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:57 pmwwallace, A Fake American, You should be ashamed!
#93 The problem here with the trolls is like you state. They use talking points. Ryan Neat says he has a degree in Economics and I believe him. The trolls call him a liar.
Thinkprogress attracts people with a diverse amount of knowledge and education and for some reason the neocons find that unbelievable. America is diverse and when the neocons understand that we will all be better off.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:01 pmWhy is the Federal Trade Deficit at an all time high?
Still waiting for an answer.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:03 pmSusan called me names! What will I do now! lol
December 14th, 2005 at 10:04 pmDoes anyone have book recommendations written for laypeople (such as myself) that explain the dynamics of what's currently going in our economy? Nothing kooky or partisan... please.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:07 pmM. Duchamp , yes.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:11 pmIt is called"The BIBLE".
But, You MUST Read It. It does no good if not Reading it.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:12 pmLet me reemphasise that. YOU! Must read it.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:13 pmM. Duchamp, I don't have any recommended reading but I do know that Americans are carrying more debt than ever. Check out my site if you like. I specialize in credit and debt.
I also understand that when the trade gap is as wide as it is right now it only hurts America.
We are buying products from foreign countries instead of manufacturing products in America. Loss of jobs is the outcome. Loss of jobs hurts the economy. People cant spend when they have nothing to spend. Spending makes the economy strong. Trade makes the economy strong.
Bubble Boy has killed our economy.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:14 pmI'm currently trying to read up on economics. I just read Tim Harford's The Undercover Economist, which is definitely meant for the lay person. I really enjoyed it, and it whetted my appetite for more. The book really showed the illustrative power of economic thought, though it doesn't really explain the current state of the American/Global macroeconomy. Currently, I'm reading Why Globalization Works, by Martin Wolf. So far so good.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:14 pmIf you want to get a general idea of the economic state of things, you can always periodically read The Economist magazine. Best newsweekly out there.
Sell everything YOU Have, Give it to the Poor, Then, Come, Follow Me.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:16 pm(I forgot who said that)
But I know its in the BIBLE.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:17 pmMun, Are you really a 13f?
December 14th, 2005 at 10:18 pmor is that your Daughter?
Raising the minimum wage increases unemployment. Great idea demorats. This is what happens when lawyers pretend they are economists.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:32 pmLeading Economic Indicators
Chief executive officers at 367 top U.S. corporations were paid, on average, $431 last
year for every $1 paid to their companies' average production worker, according to
publicly available information jointly compiled in September by Institute for Policy Studies
and United for a Fair Economy. In 1990, the ratio was about $100-to-$1. (If the federal
minimum wage had increased since 1990 by the same rate as the multiple for CEOs' pay,
it would have risen from $5.15 an hour to $23.03, but, of course, it's still $5.15.)
[New York Times, 9-4-05]
http://www.yourperfectcredit.com/Pulse.html
December 14th, 2005 at 10:35 pmI see no headway, Therefore, I retire all solutions your way.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:38 pmfreedom is not... ohhh, I mean, nofreedom!
Would you QUIT with the BIBLE!!!!!
It's appropriate when BROUGHT UP! STOP jamming it down our throats, already. I'm really tired of it.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:38 pmOkay. Please. ONLY when disputing some knucklehead. Ryan knows more than you do, tey he only uses that knowledge when disputing some idiot trying to use the Bible for their own dilusional rants. You seem to really be closer to them when you start doing the same.
Just take a chill pill, will 'ya?
True Blue — Please read comment #100.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:41 pmAnd I am not so sure Ryan would want to "Knows It All".
December 14th, 2005 at 10:43 pmI Know I don,t want to know it all..
Do you want to know everything True Blue?
Susan,
#109 - Excellent post. Thank you!
Gives one perspective.
These people claiming "lost jobs"... oh, so if we LOWER min wage we'll have MORE jobs???
December 14th, 2005 at 10:44 pmGet a grip, folks!
There is a liveable wage, and we're not there.
Just another way the "Haves" keep the "Have Nots" under their (collective) thumb.
Sad.
True Blue, and that is the point in the Bible. Jesus said to the Certain Rich Man"Sell everything you posess, give to the POOR, then come, Follow me.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:46 pmThe Bible is a handy tool, if you understand it.
Look, Free/not free:
I never said Ryan "Knows it all" so step the Hell off.
I've told you before. Sick of your bible crap.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:48 pmStop, already. You bring it up at inappropriate times. Ryan doesn't. That's all I said.
You also post and post and post. Same thing over and over and over.
It's like a 2 year old during a temper tantrum.
CHILL!
You are NOT that important, and your posts are not more important than others.
For it is Harder for the rich to enter into the Kingdom of God, Than, it is for a Camel to pass through the Eye of a Needle.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:50 pmBlessed be ye POOR! For yours is the kingdom of God.
But, WOE Unto you who are Rich.
I AM FREAKIN POOR!!!!
STOP, Already!
December 14th, 2005 at 10:53 pmI make 600.00/ MONTH right now.
CUT IT OUT!
Why fall back on someone ELSES words????
Don't you have an original thought in there?
USE IT THEN!
Act Now!
"It's great to work for Wal-Mart."
Or so says one of Wal-Mart's newest 'employees,' country music superstar Garth Brooks. You may have recently spotted Garth in one of Wal-Mart's new holiday ads. But did you know he's signed on to sell his music exclusively at Wal-Mart? Tell Garth Brooks the truth about Wal-Mart's unfair treatment of its workers and ask him to reconsider the deal.
Send your letter to Garth Brooks now!
Like a lot of Americans who shop at or support Wal-Mart, it's likely that Garth Brooks has no idea about Wal-Mart's utter lack of respect for its workers and their rights. That's why we need your help. Take this opportunity to let Garth know that when Wal-Mart workers try to form a union to negotiate for better wages, more affordable health care, and basic job protections, they often face threats, discrimination, intimidation, and even firings.
Tell Garth about Wal-Mart's misdeeds:
http://action.americanrightsatwork.org/campaign/brooks/wnknidb2f7wwnke?
Garth Brooks' legendary music provides a soundtrack to the lives of ordinary Americans. His fans are honest, hard-working people - some of the very same men and women that endure Wal-Mart's unfair treatment. Song after song, Garth takes on their issues. Now that he's working for Wal-Mart, he should stand up for his fellow workers.
Take a minute to write Garth Brooks today!
Sincerely,
Liz Cattaneo
December 14th, 2005 at 10:53 pmAmerican Rights at Work
http://www.WalMartWorkersRights.org
As holiday shopping reaches its frenzied peak, we've launched a new and funny Christmas song --"Its Always Christmas Time (for Visa)!" -- about abusive practices by credit card companies.
Take a look, laugh and take action! Go to http://www.creditcardreform.org/
Every Christmas, we pull out our credit cards to buy gifts for our friends and family. But, those credit cards can turn on us later: skyrocketing interest, late fees for bills mailed on time, low minimum payments that can bury us in interest.
Did you know that credit card contracts frequently contain something called a "universal default" clause that allows the card company to jack up your interest rate because you made a late payment on another card, looked into refinancing your mortgage, or made unusually big purchases? Its time for credit card reform!
Our funny song takes a light hearted approach to a serious problem, and we think you will enjoy it as much as we do. Share it with your friends, but also take a moment to then contact your legislators in support of credit card reform bills in Congress that will really help protect consumers.
The holiday season will come and go fast--and we hope to bring national attention to the problems people face and to these bills before the end of the year. If you enjoy the song, please tell your friends so they can take action too and add their voice to yours! We've created a special Santa holiday card you can send to them after you take action with a quick holiday greeting and a link to the song and action.
Thanks so much for your help!
Sincerely,
December 14th, 2005 at 10:56 pmGail Hillebrand
CreditCardReform.org
Think of the Christmas I'M having!!!
Haven't said anything til YOU pushed me to the edge!
FREAkin poor!Don't have a clue how to get my kid Christmas.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:56 pm... and I'm a slow responder because my computer is 5 1/2 years old!
December 14th, 2005 at 10:57 pmI have to back out, refresh, go back in before I can see anything.
Don't PREACH that crap to me; I live it EVERY damn day.
STOP!
#122
December 14th, 2005 at 10:59 pmDamn.
I'm sorry, M.Duchamp, #124
December 14th, 2005 at 11:02 pmI don't mean to bring you down.
Sorry if I offended you.
#125
December 14th, 2005 at 11:04 pmYou didn't offend me. I didn't know what to say. That was a powerful smackdown. Nofreedom! was annoying me, but your situation kind put everything into perspective. Without trying to sound contrived or anything, I'm pulling for you.
125 - 126
December 14th, 2005 at 11:05 pmAnd by "pulling for you," I mean I wish you and your children well and good luck.
True Blue, if you're serious about needing help with x-mas for your children, I'm sure toys for tots can help.
Check out the Dept. of Human Services in your area, they should be able to guide you.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:06 pmOh.
Thank you.
I'm really touched.
Thank you.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:07 pmOr call your local Fire Dept. Station. They are often distributors for the toys for tots program. Toys for tots is organized by the Marine Corp. if that helps.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:08 pmI,ve seen people that live on a dollar a day missy. in africa, afganistan, saudi, trust me missy, as an american you are lucky to be alive.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:11 pmimagine yourself living in india where the population is four times greater than americas population.
I was in Thailand the Year before the Tsunami.
In Mogadishu, Africa? My Lord. No Infrastructure, both sides of streets littered like a dump yard on both sides. kids running around, armless, legless.
it is sad. then coming back to america, shush, america is Filthy Rich comarably to nations Ive seen.
True Blue, Consider yourself lucky to be alive, and allways give thanks.
and dont be ashamed to ask for help.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:13 pmor even a raise as far as that gos.
and allways give thanks to God.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:14 pmThanks, Susan,
Too proud.
Plus, she's 16.
She wants video games (50.00)
Scene It Lord of the Rings (70.00)
... you get the idea.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:14 pmNo one's dropping that off @ Toys for Tots.
But she is old enough to know my limitations. She's a good kid. Had to put up with a lot. Don't want to bring everyone down, but she has come thru' 2 hip operations, uncontrolled Epilepsy for 2+ yrs., and a mom who went from working on the Human Genome Project to pretty much penniless in Hyannis, MA.
She's a great kid.
I was just objecting to the barage of stuff.
Sorry.
Really. I'm not complaining. We have a roof over our head due to her father helping, so at least we're not destitute.
We're ok.
Better than some out there.
Thank you for your kind words.
comparably
December 14th, 2005 at 11:15 pm#131
December 14th, 2005 at 11:16 pmI have to say, your self righteous tirades are growing stale. Let me guess, you were a missionary. I guess that explains the preaching. Lay off True Blue. You act like you're drunk or something.
Hey, you started it asking for references, I gave it. Where she came from , I have no Idea.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:18 pmRE # 100.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:19 pmbut, i,ll leave it at that. bye.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:20 pmOh Boy,
I think I've started something bad now.
Really, I think I'd take all my posts back seeing the trouble I caused.
Why not get back to topic, OK?
Sorry, everyone. Your wishes are noted and deeply felt, Honestly.
But I don't want to be like a troll who takes us off topic.... OK?
Thank you!!!!!
December 14th, 2005 at 11:20 pmTrue Blue, you worked on mapping our DNA. That's too cool! I wonder if nofreedom! is a creationist...
December 14th, 2005 at 11:24 pm#138 via #100
December 14th, 2005 at 11:26 pmSo by asking for a book on economics you recommend the Bible? I'd say you're acting like a fool.
True Blue, You live in my moms neck of the woods.
I've heard good things about game rentals by mail. Comparable to Netflix.
You can have a game by x-mas for $10 to keep for 1 month.
Each month your daughter can select a game and keep it for $20 per month after the first month.
Can cancel anytime.
I've used Netflix (d.v.d. rental service by mail) and was very satisfied.
Try these sites.
gamefly.com
moviesandgames123.com
December 14th, 2005 at 11:31 pm#143. No Comment.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:33 pm#144. Good Comment.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:33 pmgnite.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:34 pmM Duchamp,
December 14th, 2005 at 11:34 pmI sure did! Most people look at me puzzled when I say that. I'm glad you know what it is!!
MIT, Center for Genome research.
Sequenced Braca 2 gene. Schizophernia. Tubersclerosis. (Not tuberculousis!!)Tons more!
Anyway, it was fun. Those were the good 'ol days!
#143, Susan,
December 14th, 2005 at 11:37 pmTHank you! I never heard of it.
I'm about 1 1/2 miles from the Kennedy Compound.
It's BORING here right now! (Everything has shut down til next year.)
Thanks again.
Oops, $15 per month for 1 rentals. (after first month)
$22 per month for 2 rentals.
https://www.gamefly.com/member/reg3c.asp?tp=n&dftppt=45
December 14th, 2005 at 11:37 pmTrue Blue, my moms in Mansfield.
Gotta go, good night and good luck.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:39 pm#147
I've done some medical visualization work, nothing DNA related. I love all things science. You have my respect, True.
If you don't mind me asking, are you unemployed or currently working outside your chosen field? It seems like you would have some good career prospects
December 14th, 2005 at 11:40 pmJust back after refreshing, so you are probably gone... But THANK YOU!
Good to know there are still nice people out there.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:41 pmM. Duchamp,
Again, sorry for the delay.
There is 0 Biotech down here!!
I'm currently unemployed, due to a bad accident.
I'm hoping to get back on track soon, but it's been a tough year & 1/2!
Went back to school for Physical Therapy about 4 years ago.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:47 pmWhen I'm back I'll be able to help people on the "other" side of the microscope!
Thanks for asking!
#153
"I’m not a lawyer, nor have I formally studied law."
Ryan may not be a lawyer, but he is an Irish-American Hindu Economist... not that there's anything wrong with that (it just runs up the printing cost on his business cards and stationary). ;p
December 14th, 2005 at 11:50 pmHi Ryan,
December 14th, 2005 at 11:54 pmNever thought of you as a lawyer.
Always thought of you as an activist. Always "doing", 'ya know? Reaching out, etc. That's been my thought. (for what it's worth.)
DID always wonder about your command of the Bible, but you cleared that bit up recently.
5.15/ hr??? Can anyone BELIEVE that?
Silly. How anyone can argue against it is ... I don't know! I'm at a loss for words! It's just assinine.
#154
December 14th, 2005 at 11:56 pmDamn. You've been through some serious sh*t. It can't be easy, especially adding in the teenager factor. You're a strong person. Once your body mends you'll be back and at 'em in no time.
#156 Ryan,
December 15th, 2005 at 12:00 amWish I had read that post before posting!
You are funny!!!
Then again, I am also Irish so maybe I am more appreciative of your sense of humor!
"talk out of their sphincters"... Boy I love that!!!!
#158:
M Duchamp,
I always looked at it that: that's how life is.
Never "woe is me." No sense in that.
I'll be back to it.
I just hate the right wingers saying that I am a lout because I need help "right now". Doesn't matter that I've worked full time for some 20 years. I'm now part of the "lower class". THAT gets my Irish up!
But as far as "serious crap",... don't we all have our stuff to get thru'? We just do what we need to do.
We'll be OK. This Christmas may stink a bit, but at least we HAVE a Christmas with each other. That's how we look at it, anyway.
Thank you for your kindness, though. I do acknowledge and appreciate it.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:08 amSorry, everyone. Your wishes are noted and deeply felt,
Comment by True Blue — December 14, 2005 @ 11:20 pm
No need to apologise, True Blue. My best wishes for you and your family this Christmas. I wish I could do more for you than that. Human Genome Project, eh? How cool.
nofreedom! -I have to agree with M. Duchamp and True Blue. Long posts lifted straight off the Bible with no context offer little or no insight into what you are thinking or what solution you are trying to propose.
Your posts would be more helpful if, instead, they had a Christian perspective on current issues and you expressed it in your own words.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:21 amMy Christian perspective is That God never had Set no one Free. But, hey, Once You set them Free, You can Never Take it away from them./ So, Enjoy your Freedoms while they last.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:26 amEnd of Subject, Finickto, Finished.
Believe whatever you want to believe, I dont care anymore.
hey, More War power to all of You.
Easiest way to raise the minimum wage is to add an amendment to the Constitution that states that no federal employee, including elected officials earn more than eight times the minimum wage, honorariums and dividends included.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:46 amThe problem is that there just isn't enough trickle-down. We can fix this with another and bigger tax break for the wealthy.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:24 amFirst, True Blue, I just wanted to let you know that I think you must be an AMAZING person. Your posts just radiate with positive energy. This time of year, it is far to easy to be swept up in the whole consumer frenzy, more concerned about getting "things" for people, or our inability to do so. Gosh what a waste. Every year I watch my neices and nephews, little hyper cyclones tearing open packages, looking at them only long enough to identify the item, and tossing them aside with one hand, while reaching for the next one. Gawd it is soooo gross. Your daughter is so fortunate to have you as her mother. It is too late for me, but I actually envy your daughter. To be blessed with a mother who LOVES her "baby" is the ultimate gift, one that NO amount of money can buy. Careful, I'm going to make myself cry.... Blue, you are a beautiful human being. I hope that the new year brings only positive things to you!!! Now, secondly, the minimum wage. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!! I would like all of you A-Holes (pardon me) who try to make others believe that raising it will cause the sky to fall, PULEEZE just shut your pie holes!! You are not being truthful. At all. Shame on you. I live in Washington State. In January our min. wage will go to $7.35 an hour. Still pathetic, but better than the Fed. I spent cold, wet weekends outside grocery stores and asked people to sign petitions to get the initiative on the ballot. One fellow had the nerve to say to me that he "didn't believe in that." What an ass. And the whining from the Tavern and Restaraunt owners was unreal! Oh Woe To Them!!! No jobs, we'll have to close, blah blah blah Well, we got enough signatures (without having to cheat) got it on the ballot and it passed. Wasn't even close. The day it took effect, my employers at the time, had to give us all a raise, raised their prices,(I am a stylist)and then proceeded to adjust our commission scale and "user fees", etc., until somehow we ended up making LESS than before. Damned accts. But I wouldn't change it. Alot of people were helped. and the sky did not fall. AMAZING!!! Sorry this was so long, but it hit my "spot". Bygones....
December 15th, 2005 at 4:13 amNowhere in this country can a person survive on minimum wage. Nowhere.
Comment by unbelievable
That's not true, my dear girl. This cheeto-eating moron does it...
Lowdown, your callousness towards the neediest in our society is a sad joke. Keep up the fight Steny!
Comment by Jack — December 14, 2005
... but he still lives in mommy's basement.
December 15th, 2005 at 6:53 amThis cheeto-eating, free rent in mommy's basment moron...
Your economics is a joke.
Comment by lowdown — December 14, 2005
December 15th, 2005 at 6:55 amRyan may not be a lawyer, but he is an Irish-American Hindu Economist…
M.Duchamp
I think a new Faux News expose hosted by Osama jon Gibson, (wingnut brother of Osama ben Gibson) out this spring asserts that the anti-Christ is an Irish-American Hindu Economist who plays a lawyer on the internets.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:00 amLowdown, this 'economics' you speak off. What does it mean? What does it stand for? Before you give me the wrong answer i'll give you the right one: Economics means taking good care of the home we live in, that is: the world. Economics means running things so that everyone can have enough of the wealth of the world. You also have to see this in time, people from the future should be able to have as much as we have. If it's impossible then we're being too greedy. Spending €700 or 700$ on your closest friends and family for a holiday you don't even know the origin of, while your (black?) neighbours only earn 700$ in 7 months is scandalous, UNeconomical and probably the most common sin commited by all in the West. Economics can be no joke. Economics is justice, the economy of what all politicians and pseudo-intellectuals speak does not exist. If it did exist, Africa and China wouldn't be so damn damn damn damn extorted, and Americans and Europeans wouldn't be so damn consume-happy. Maybe that's what you meant after all: economics is a joke? To a REAL intellectual it is, you know?
December 15th, 2005 at 7:15 amJesus,
# 6, 13 & 15
I never took Economics 101. It sounds like the Law 101 course another right wing troll told me about once. There is no such thing as a Law 101 course, either but the economy is just booming like beating on a hollowed out log!
December 15th, 2005 at 7:16 amThe problem is that there just isn’t enough trickle-down. We can fix this with another and bigger tax break for the wealthy.
Comment by Guest — December 15,
I think we should just kill the wealthy and feed them to the poor, homeless animals. Do away with money all together. They wouldn't want to live without it anyway and you can't take it with you.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:19 am#166
Oh, you're fine, so that's clearly all that matters!
Even if he's telling the truth (which I doubt), one exemption does not dispute the reality that people cannot live on minimum wage. You can find an exemption for every rule, but it doesn't mean we should ignore the problem.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:25 amGet a clue, get off your ass, and stop bitching about the country. We’ve been going strong for 200+ years. It won’t stop.
Comment by A real American
How about, STFU with your incessant whining and pay your taxes, whatever they are, or just get the fvck out. How about that?
December 15th, 2005 at 7:28 am#166
Oh, you’re fine, so that’s clearly all that matters!
Even if he’s telling the truth (which I doubt), one exemption does not dispute the reality that people cannot live on minimum wage. You can find an exemption for every rule, but it doesn’t mean we should ignore the problem.
Comment by unbelievable
What are you doing up so late (early?)
December 15th, 2005 at 7:32 am#104
December 15th, 2005 at 7:50 amThanks for the book recommendations. I nearly lost your post in all the "noise."
Economist Jokes for everyone! Merry Christmas!
(some excerpts)
Gathered by actual economists, with brains and talent, from all over the world. Not the morons and political hacks who work at the right wing think tanks here and abroad, who are paid to say whatever their corporate and political masters want them to say.
An economist is a trained professional paid to guess wrong about the economy. An econometrician is a trained professional paid to use computers to guess wrong about the economy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
December 15th, 2005 at 8:13 amTalk is cheap. Supply exceeds Demand.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bentley's second Law of Economics: The only thing more dangerous than an economist is an amateur economist!
Berta's Fundamental Law of Economic Rents.. "The only thing more dangerous than an amateur economist is a professional economist."
A true story:
"I heard this from one of my professors. To protect him, no names will be revealed. This professor was about to get married. He went to the jewelers to get a wedding ring for his fiancee. The jeweler told him that he can have the inside of the ring engraved with the name of his fiancee for an additional $20 (remember, this was a LONG time ago). He said, "But that will reduce the resale value!" The jeweler was aghast. He said, "How can you say such a thing. You are a butcher!" "No," replied the professor, "I am an economist"."
told by Tapen Sinha, PhD
My fav...
Heard at the Wharton School.
Man walking along a road in the countryside comes across a shepherd and a huge flock of sheep. Tells the shepherd, "I will bet you $100 against one of your sheep that I can tell you the exact number in this flock." The shepherd thinks it over; it's a big flock so he takes the bet. "973," says the man. The shepherd is astonished, because that is exactly right. Says "OK, I'm a man of my word, take an animal." Man picks one up and begins to walk away.
"Wait," cries the shepherd, "Let me have a chance to get even. Double or nothing that I can guess your exact occupation." Man says sure. "You are an economist for a government think tank," says the shepherd. "Amazing!" responds the man, "You are exactly right! But tell me, how did you deduce that?"
"Well," says the shepherd, "put down my dog and I will tell you."
December 15th, 2005 at 8:15 am#31 Oh, and thanks to the Republican-led Congress, Randy, so many more people will have the opportunity to go to college, right?? Just so more rich folks can get still richer.
Congress Cuts Research, Education Spending
December 15th, 2005 at 8:29 amWhat ever happened to the war on poverty that LBJ started back in the 60s.
randy dandy candy ass
Nixon, you moron.
December 15th, 2005 at 8:32 am#174
Probably the same as you, working... You know how we lazy middle class people are :).
December 15th, 2005 at 8:45 am"Representative Miller and Senator Kennedy have introduced a fair bill to increase the minimum wage to $7.25 over two years. Providing a livable wage to hardworking American families is not a Democratic or Republican issue. It is an issue of doing what is right and good."
Is there anyone here that can "live" off of $7.25 an hour?
No. So what the hell are we talking about anyway?
December 15th, 2005 at 10:17 amTrue Blue: "my computer is 5 1/2 years old!"
Oh, the inhumanity!
December 15th, 2005 at 10:21 amSince raising the minimum wage has no negative economic effects, why don't we make it $50 an hour?
December 15th, 2005 at 10:22 am#181 IRI
Is that really you? You actually support a living wage??? Or should I have read this as your attempt at sarcasm?
December 15th, 2005 at 10:25 am#183
Really, shouldn't your mother be surpervising you right now?
December 15th, 2005 at 10:26 amTypical liberal "argument":
How pathetic.
December 15th, 2005 at 10:37 am#185
At least I'm funny. You are not.
December 15th, 2005 at 10:41 amso here's the official story;
In 1773, Britain's East India Company was sitting on large stocks of tea that it could not sell in England. It was on the verge of bankruptcy. In an effort to save it, the government passed the Tea Act of 1773, which gave the company the right to export its merchandise directly to the colonies without paying any of the regular taxes that were imposed on the colonial merchants, who had traditionally served as the middlemen in such transactions. With these privileges, the company could undersell American merchants and monopolize the colonial tea trade. The act proved inflammatory for several reasons. First, it angered influential colonial merchants, who feared being replaced and bankrupted by a powerful monopoly. The East India Company's decision to grant franchises to certain American merchants for the sale of their tea created further resentments among those excluded from this lucrative trade. More important, however, the Tea Act revived American passions about the issue of taxation without representation. The law provided no new tax on tea. Lord North assumed that most colonists would welcome the new law because it would reduce the price of tea to consumers by removing the middlemen. But the colonists responded by boycotting tea. Unlike earlier protests, this boycott mobilized large segments of the population. It also helped link the colonies together in a common experience of mass popular protest. Particularly important to the movement were the activities of colonial women, who were one of the principal consumers of tea and now became the leaders of the effort to the boycott.
Various colonies made plans to prevent the East India Company from landing its cargoes in colonial ports. In ports other than Boston, agents of the company were "persuaded" to resign, and new shipments of tea were either returned to England or warehoused. In Boston, the agents refused to resign and, with the support of the royal governor, preparations were made to land incoming cargoes regardless of opposition. After failing to turn back the three ships in the harbor, local patriots led by Samuel Adams staged a spectacular drama. On the evening of December 16, 1773, three companies of fifty men each, masquerading as Mohawk Indians, passed through a tremendous crowd of spectators, went aboard the three ships, broke open the tea chests, and heaved them into the harbor.As the electrifying news of the Boston "tea party" spread, other seaports followed the example and staged similar acts of resistance of their own.'
When the Bostonians refused to pay for the property they had destroyed, George III and Lord North decided on a policy of coercion, to be applied only against Massachusetts, the socalled Coercive Acts. In these four acts of 1774, Parliament closed the port of Boston, drastically reduced the powers of selfgovernment in the colony, permitted royal officers to be tried in other colonies or in England when accused of crimes, and provided for the quartering of troops in the colonists' barns and empty houses. The acts sparked new resistance up and down the coast.
in other words, the king lowered taxes for his pals that owned a big corporation, the locals didn't particularly care for that cronyism becuase it was stealing money from them and for some reason they didn't think stealing from them was a good idea (unlike people today who think stealing from their families and giving the money to rich people has some kind of merit), ...go figure.
the colonies didn't like the king lowering taxes to his pals and a new nation was thus born.
America
god bless her, god bless her founding fathers, their vision and their principles that brought forth this new nation
hmmm...the head of state lowering taxes for his corporate pals
quite a bit of that going on today, isn't there.
the differance now is that corporate media has been able to promote their corporate agenda while making believe they are liberal....people actually fall for this childs trick
corporate media has actually been able to convince people that tax giveaways of their money to the presidents corporate pals is somehow beneficial to them and this country.
ah me
December 15th, 2005 at 10:43 am#181 IRI
Is that really you? You actually support a living wage??? Or should I have read this as your attempt at sarcasm?
Comment by unbelievable
I believe people should be able to make a living. I don't believe that Donks who equate a minimim wage with a living wage are out to help help anyone but themselves. A free and liberal society can not mandate a living wage. An individual must command it by making himself worth it to the market.
There will always be poor people because all people are not created equally. If you want to help those less gifted or lucky than yourself join a church and help to adopt a family. The State no matter how hard it tries or well intentioned will never replace Christian Charity.
December 15th, 2005 at 10:51 amChristian Charity.??????ROFL MAO!
December 15th, 2005 at 10:56 amChristian ARE Doping You. They Know nothing of Charity.
Christian Charity.??????ROFL MAO!
Christian ARE Doping You. They Know nothing of Charity.
Comment by nofreedom!
We invented it. Dumbass.
December 15th, 2005 at 11:16 am#188
I knew this was too good to be true. I figured that at some point we might agree on something somewhere. On the surface, in part, but over all, guess we'll just have to keep searching. I still don't think you're a bad guy. And I don't believe your misogynistic comments (well, not entirely), but I do think you don't understand. You have never wanted for anything to understand. It's clear by your lack of compassion.
Have you ever considered that some people aren't taught how to 'better' themselves? I would love to have you go home with some of my students who come from families that are not only unable to teach them how to value themselves enough to rise from poverty, but encourage their children to fight, get pregnant at seventeen, and hate the world. And they learn that at church, where they are taught by te Bible to fight forces of evil who are anyone unlike them, taught that women are inferior, and taught judgment.
Christianity does not have a monopoly on charity. I'm an Atheist and I am very charitable. The Bush Regime is not so charitiable - as they take money from the poor and give it to the rich.
December 15th, 2005 at 11:20 am"There will always be poor people because all people are not created equally.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I"
'We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal.'
Looks like MizzWrong doesn't agree with the declaration of independence, the constitution, or even christianity.
MizzWrong is what we like to refer to as a DumbMinionist.
"We invented it. Dumbass.
Charity existed long before Christians, but ironically you show know signs of Charity or even Christian values that you profess exist...
December 15th, 2005 at 11:31 am"The State no matter how hard it tries or well intentioned will never replace Christian Charity.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I"
When the country relied on christian charity in the early 20th century, poverty was at 40%, at the end of the Clinton administration it was 10%.
I would say that the state not only replaced Christian Charity nicely, but it did a much better job of it than the Christians did.
You're such a deluded little retarded whacko, you must be 'Texas Dumb'...
December 15th, 2005 at 11:33 am#193. but ironically you show No
December 15th, 2005 at 11:36 amGet enough of these poor who are not created equally over a period of time IRI, and eventually they will be eating your food,in your house, enjoying and smashing your things while you dangle from a rope. Learn your history, wasted sperm.
December 15th, 2005 at 11:45 amAmazing. Just amazing. I didn't realize that some americans are so hate filled that they continuously support legislation that is against their best interests while boycotting legislation that is in their best interest.
It doesn't matter how many sound economic arguments that you guys make, they won't change. The core of their argument has nothing to do with economics and everything to do with prejudice. Those that have want to continue to have while oppressing those that don't.
As others have pointed out here, it's the height of hypocrisy to claim that there isn't enough money floating around the corporate world to raise the minimum wage, yet CEO's are making record breaking salaries and bonuses.
But hey, it's poor people's fault that they are poor. Just stop being poor already. Compassionate conservatism my left azz cheek.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:04 pmGood Lord, even Wal-Mart wants the minimum wage raised so that low income folks have more money to spend on unecessary plastic objects.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:07 pmGod helps those who help themselves.............to others: lack of opportunies,money,cheap labor,misfortune,lack of choice,etc.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:22 pmWhen the country relied on christian charity in the early 20th century, poverty was at 40%, at the end of the Clinton administration it was 10%.
I would say that the state not only replaced Christian Charity nicely, but it did a much better job of it than the Christians did.
You’re such a deluded little retarded whacko, you must be ‘Texas Dumb’…
Comment by Ryan Liar
To make matters worse, the percentage of Americans living at or below the poverty level during the Clinton administration (13.2) was only minimally smaller than the corresponding statistic for the Reagan/Bush era (14.1). The circumstances of the officially “poor†population actually worsened under Clinton. This partly reflected the Clinton administration’s neoliberal slashing of federal family cash assistance for jobless single mothers and its related reliance on the capitalist labor market to improve the conditions of society’s most vulnerable.
This performance made a mockery of Clinton’s 1992 campaign slogan, “Putting People First,†which communicated a populist message Clinton rapidly abandoned once he attained the White House, and his Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin (former head of Goldman Sachs) reminded him that extremely wealthy folks are the people who matter most when it comes to running the country. Even before Rubin’s reminder, however, Clinton was a veteran of the Republican-light Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), formed to increase the influence of big business and reduce the influence of labor and other progressive forces within the Democratic Party. The Clinton Democrats’ basic commitment to business-class neoliberal values poisoned the 2000 presidential election, when Al Gore could see nothing better to do with Clinton’s federal surplus than to pay down the national debt even as nearly 700,000 African-American children lived in “deep poverty†(at less than half of the nation’s notoriously inadequate poverty level) and beyond.
http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:adieeD8U2vkJ:blog.zmag.org/index.php/weblog/entry/we_had_a_different_policy_clinton_was_no_champion_of_the_poor/+clinton++administration+poverty&hl=en
December 15th, 2005 at 12:54 pm#199
Hey, I see you're cutting and pasting now, rather than just trying to paraphrase the neocon handbook :)
December 15th, 2005 at 1:38 pmI-RIGHT-I,
As a friendly advice: When trying to undermine your opponent's argument, you better make sure not to sink your own position in the process.
You had previously said: "A free and liberal society can not mandate a living wage. An individual must command it by making himself worth it to the market.(...)
The State no matter how hard it tries or well intentioned will never replace Christian Charity."
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — December 15, 2005 @ 10:51 am
Now let's take a look at the excerpt you posted: "The circumstances of the officially 'poor' population actually worsened under Clinton. This partly reflected the Clinton administration’s neoliberal slashing of federal family cash assistance for jobless single mothers and its related reliance on the capitalist labor market to improve the conditions of society’s most vulnerable."
So, a slashing in social spending worsened the condition of the poor, completely undermining your argument of self-reliance. Government intervention is indeed needed if the burden on the most vulnerable is to be eased.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:00 pmSo, a slashing in social spending worsened the condition of the poor, completely undermining your argument of self-reliance.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
How does giving you a fish make you a better fisherman, especially if you know that I, Uncle Sugar, will always be there to give you that fish? Uncle Sugar destroys self reliance while undermining the vigor of our economy and depressing the value of work.
I have doubts about this "slashing" too. Usually when the Donks whine and cry about slashing this or slashing that it means they didn't get the RAISE they expected.
December 15th, 2005 at 4:21 pmHey, I see you’re cutting and pasting now, rather than just trying to paraphrase the neocon handbook :)
Comment by unbelievable
Ryan "the liar" Neat doesn't deserve anything more. He's lucky he got that much out of me. By the way...have you noticed how many times that loser has been deleted by the moderators lately? That's your boy!
December 15th, 2005 at 4:23 pm#188
December 15th, 2005 at 4:37 pmYou are exactly right! No matter what the minimum wage is there will always be rich and poor people. Raising the wage just passes the increase downsteam in the form of higher rents and prices. The only way to change of this to convert to communism where the government owns everything, everyone makes exactly the same wage and everyone is happy right? Thats what you are asking for isn't it? Somehow, I don't think thats what our founding fathers had in mind.
I have doubts about this "slashing" too. Usually when the Donks whine and cry about slashing this or slashing that it means they didn’t get the RAISE they expected.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — December 15, 2005 @ 4:21 pm
Then you should not have quoted from, and linked to, the article if you really wanted it to support your point.
Now what you are doing is cherry picking: You stick with the parts you like and ignore the ones you don't. But you cannot do that and still be intellectually honest.
Uncle Sugar destroys self reliance while undermining the vigor of our economy and depressing the value of work.
I don't think anyone is asking the poor be given handouts or freebies. No need to fret about that. What is been asked is for the government to set rules that would make it easier for people to make a living and -hopefully- get our of poverty. Not all will, obviously. But it is objectionable not to give them a hand.
These rules include some spending in the way of social programmes, as pointed out in the article you quoted.
December 15th, 2005 at 4:53 pm#203
Haven't noticed... They let a lot get posted here that most sites would delete. So what gets someone deleted by Admin in here?
December 15th, 2005 at 5:07 pm#204
I'm pretty sure they didn't have a theocratic military state in mind either...
December 15th, 2005 at 5:09 pmunbelievable,
If you post 'known' copyrighted material without giving proper notice to its origins, that will get the post deleted. Always post the links to external content, or where it came from, otherwise it's pretty much free speech without many restrictions. The trolls like it, because it's the only place they actually experience free speech - but ironically they're never smart enough to recognize this.
December 15th, 2005 at 9:22 pmI thought we were talking about minimum wage, nofreedom!? What do the poor (most of whom don’t work at all), and the homeless (who DEFINITELY don’t work) have to do with the minimum wage?
Comment by A real American
Wrongo ArA. 60% of the people living in a homeless shelter in my town WORK. They cannot afford a place to live. One man told me he used to make $16/hr at a local plant before it shut down. He's lucky now to make $8/hr. It's a national disgrace that people working full time, or working two jobs, or three jobs, can be still live below the federal poverty level. ArA, don't tell me you've never heard the term "working poor". That means they're poor... and they work. Even our dim-witted president could get that.
December 16th, 2005 at 1:26 am#208
People at this age still do that? I guess when you don't think for yourself, you try to take credit for those who do...??? Well, thanks for the information. I appreciate the heads up!
December 16th, 2005 at 7:49 am#209
IRI you really have to do a better job of disguising yourself...
Seriously, you should go meet some of these people. As I told you, I used to be like you. And then I left my livingroom and met people. You'll be amazed at how much it changes your perspective. People are generally doing the best that they can. You don't understand how fortunate you are to have the life you do.
While in architecture, I was laid off during the dot com crash (my firm had high-tech clients who ceased to exist or stopped construction). Every morning, I would go to the public library. And over the course of a few weeks I had started a conversation with a homeless man.
He was a veteran who'd served in the Vietnam War. The very person you claim to admire and appreciate. Any you know why your hero was homeless? He hated the government and the system so much that he refused to participate. He wasn't the derelict or the loser that you label all of these people. Most of them aren't actually.
Another one of your heros - Ronald Regan cut federal support of mental health facilities leaving many of the indigents left to roam the streets. People who cannot care for themselves, who need to be charitably taken care of, are forced on to the streets.
Really, before you stigmatize people, you should do your homework. And that's not something you can fact check online.
December 16th, 2005 at 8:01 am"Another one of your heros - Ronald Regan cut federal support of mental health facilities leaving many of the indigents left to roam the streets. People who cannot care for themselves, who need to be charitably taken care of, are forced on to the streets." - Comment by unbelieved
December 16th, 2005 at 3:17 pm*****You forgot to mention an important part of your "story" - Ronald Reagan was SUED by the ACLU and other "friends" of the mentally ill to get them RELEASED. You shouldn't be teaching impressionable young minds with your apparent inability to relate "cause and affect".
#212 And you shouldn't be speaking. All that comes out is bile and garbage... just like the Exorcist.
December 16th, 2005 at 3:32 pm#212
You want cause and affect?
cause: Ronald Reagan openly hated "the weak"
effect: Ronald Reagan therefore cut funding to mental hospitals, therefore casting millions of invalids into the streets.
December 16th, 2005 at 3:43 pm212
You want cause and affect?
cause: Ronald Reagan openly hated “the weakâ€
effect: Ronald Reagan therefore cut funding to mental hospitals, therefore casting millions of invalids into the streets.
Comment by unbelievable
Don't you think that one asinine liar on the board is enough? I'm going to tell Ryan you're after his job then you'll be out on the streets.
December 16th, 2005 at 4:03 pm#216
Liar? I figured you'd not only know this about Reagan, but would have quotes to back it up and be in here supporting his position. As usual... here's the reality:
"What we have found in this country, and maybe we're more aware of it now, is one problem that we've had, even in the best of times, and that is the people who are sleeping on the grates, the homeless, you might say, by choice."
"It's difficult to believe that people are still starving in this country because food isn't available."
"Unemployment insurance is a pre-paid vacation for freeloaders."
"We should measure welfare's success by how many people leave welfare, not by how many are added."
"You know, if I listened to Michael Dukakis long enough, I would be convinced we're in an economic downturn and people are homeless and going without food and medical attention and that we've got to do something about the unemployed. "
-Ronald Reagan
With liberals, it's not a competition. We work as a team. Novel concept to you bloody thirsty trolls, I know.
December 16th, 2005 at 5:22 pmWith liberals, it’s not a competition. We work as a team. Novel concept to you bloody thirsty trolls, I know.
Comment by unbelievable
Crappy team you've got. We work as a team too. Check this out....
Members of a crowd of hundreds of mostly black people fleeing New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina who were barred from Gretna, La., by police firing shotguns in the air tell Ed Bradley they feared for their lives. They also say the officers' actions were racist. But the Mayor of Gretna says stopping them on the bridge to Gretna à then the only way out of New Orleans -- was justified, because Gretna couldn't absorb any more evacuees. The shotgun blasts, he says, were necessary to uphold order. Bradley's report will be broadcast on 60 MINUTES Sunday Dec. 18 (7:00-8:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network."
December 16th, 2005 at 5:36 pm#218
If you wanna consider the KKK as a team, well, it's your choice what you decide to call yourselves... but most civilized people prefer to use the term 'mob'.
How you don't see the racism in that article is really amazing. Do you think that had it been a group of starving, exhausted white Boston socialites walking into Cambridge to find a toilet and some food that the Harvard crimsons would shoot at them because Weld Hall was already full? Not a chance. I grew up in the South and racism is still flourishing in Louisiana, IRI. You just demostrated how much.
December 16th, 2005 at 8:57 pmHow you don’t see the racism in that article is really amazing. Do you think that had it been a group of starving, exhausted white Boston socialites walking into Cambridge to find a toilet and some food that the Harvard crimsons would shoot at them because Weld Hall was already full? Not a chance. I grew up in the South and racism is still flourishing in Louisiana, IRI. You just demostrated how much.
Comment by unbelievable
I see good common sense in that action. Something else I see is that it isn't racism if it's a black guy holding the shotgun. I saw plenty of black guys holding shotguns pointed in the direction of other black guys during Katrina...and for very good reason. If that's racism then let them make the most of it. Now get me a beer and check to make sure the gun is loaded and ready to go. I'm in no mood to become a martyr for the cause of professional victims.
December 17th, 2005 at 12:36 pm#220
I’m in no mood to become a martyr for the cause of professional victims.
You're never 'in a mood' for anything but being an assh*le.
There weren't black guys with guns in your original story. But, if you wanna try to spin your way out of that, then how about the fact that instead of removing prisoners during the storm, the local government just released them into the streets? So the blacks with guns that you saw might just have been defending themselves from criminals left to roam the streets. There are black criminals. I don't deny that. But, I don't think and speak in the absolutes that you do. There are nice people of every skin color, and jerks of every skin color. It's not their skin color that people control - it's their attitudes and their behaviours. How you made it this far without realizing that is one of those inequities in life that you like to mention. The unfairness is that you are not smart enough to be human.
By the way, how old are you?
December 17th, 2005 at 1:01 pmHave any of you people ever considered who actually works for minimum wage?
Teenagers, and those who fail to embrace the ability to improve their socio-economic position, work at minimum wage.
These are ENTRY-LEVEL jobs.
Just a quick few questions:
How much do each of you make?
What did you do to get the job you currently have?
What are you doing to improve your prospects for future increases in your personal income?
Are you crying to Congress to get you a pay raise, or are you working diligently of your own volition?
While there is a growing wealth gap in the US, an individual who CHOOSES to educate themselves, AVOIDS having children out of wed-lock, does not suffer from ADDICTION, and takes ACCOUNTABILITY for their livlihood instead of handing it off to a bureaucrat, can, and will, move up on the scale.
December 21st, 2005 at 12:54 pm#222
Eric,
That's nonsense. You clearly have no idea what you speak of... like most fat rich lazy neocons.
http://www.policyalmanac.org/economic/minimum_wage.shtml
Efforts to increase the minimum wage are generally supported by unions and liberal anti-poverty organizations, who say it will help the nation's working poor. A full time minimum wage worker makes just $10,712 per year, well below the poverty line for a family of three.
Opponents include conservative organizations and the business community, especially small businesses and retailers, who argue that increasing the minimum wage will simply increase unemployment, as small businesses who pay such wages are forced to make layoffs. Some argue that every ten percent increase in the minimum wage results in a loss of 100,000 jobs.
Supporters point to a controversial study by Princeton economists David Card and Alan Krueger of minimum wage employees in New Jersey, which found little or no impact on employment. Economist Robert Solow, an MIT Nobel Laureate, wrote in a 1995 New York Times article that the “main thing about the research is that the evidence of the job loss is weak.... And the fact that the evidence is weak suggests the impact on jobs is small.â€
Opponents argue that many minimum wage workers are teenagers or entry level workers with few skills who need these jobs to break into the labor force, and who are not the primary bread winners within their households. Supporters say that most of those affected by a minimum wage increase are adults aged 20 and over, and more than half of all teenagers earning the minimum wage are in households with below-average incomes.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:28 amOkay, first your assessment of me is patently wrong.
I am not fat, lazy, rich, or neo-con.
On to better issues. Your diatribe, while interesting, challenging, and stimulating, failed to redress my essay.
And, in fact, it supported my opinion. In your highlighted text, you point out that supposedly a minimum wage increase will help mostly adult workers over 20 y.o.a. Again I ask, who are these workers? What are they doing?
I just drove past McDonalds and on their sign it said, "$9.00/hour to Start!"
Well above minimum...
Starbucks starts their people at $7.00/hour WITH Health Insurance for ALL employees starting DAY ONE!
Unions will naturally support an increase in minimum wage because it helps them negotiate better contracts for their members, thus increasing dues collection. I've been a member of two of the more powerful Unions (FOP and CWA) I know how these guys roll....
So I ask again:
What is your position in life professionally?
How did you get there?
Does it occur to you that depending upon the Gov't to get you paid is fools gold?
Feel free to reply, but taper on the angst and personal attacks. I have not disparaged you; don't lower yourself and take shots at me.
If you lack the ability to engage in proper discourse, you invalidate yourself, your cause, and any credibility. That's the problem in this Country, as soon as someone dissents, they get their ass handed to them via personal attacks....
December 22nd, 2005 at 1:24 pmIt's always amazed me how people can be so stupid and heartless as to oppose paying workers a fair and decent wage.
Rationally, it makes no logical sense. When workers are paid more, they can buy more things and help to stimulate the economy - so everyone wins. They claim it will raise unemployment and destroy jobs, but every time the minimum wage has been increased it has actually increased employment.
Morally, it is grossly wrong to pay a person slave wages. It is little better than slavery itself, and in some ways worse. At least a slave knew that his master would protect his investment by affording some sort of basic housing, food and medical care. Slave wagers often don't get even that much. If their employee dies, they can always bring someone else up from Mexico.
For me, it actually seems to be a superstition with many people who are simply afraid to offend the god of capitalism. These are people whose religion is basically the corporate capitalist marketplace, and they are afraid to do anything that might offend their god. Afraid that if they go along with a fair wage, their capitalist god may come down upon them in some swift and mereciless manner.
It doesn't make any rational sense, and it certainly isn't moral, but it does make sense in terms of a supersticious, and almost phobic aversion to doing anything that might make them appear human.
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:22 amtrebor:
Most compelling and heart felt tome, but again you fail to provide anything to counter my points beyond, "It's just not fair...."
I cited two very clear examples of the fallacy of minimum wage vis-a-vie McDonalds and Starbucks.
The objective of minimum wage jobs is to provide work experience to entry-level/new workers. They are not skilled or professional positions.
Again, if one wishes to improve their lot in life, learn a trade, go to school...utilize the options available.
America is an upwardly mobile society. Our accomplishments are largely defined by our ability and desire to work hard and apply ourselves.
Entry-level/minimum wage jobs should be regarded as stepping stones for the development of the future work force, not long-term careers.
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:48 pmHey folks, have a look at this link:
http://www.epionline.org/news_detail.cfm?rid=49
Remember, this is a NON-PARTISAN organization commissioned to do a study.
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:53 pmYou're full of crap Eric, and as far as your "NON-PARTISAN organization":
"The Employment Policies Institute is one of several front groups created by Berman & Co., a Washington, DC public affairs firm owned by Rick Berman, who lobbies for the restaurant, hotel, alcoholic beverage and tobacco industries. EPI, registered as a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization, has has been widely quoted in news stories regarding minimum wage issues, and although a few of those stories have correctly described it as a "think tank financed by business," most stories fail to provide any identification that would enable readers to identify the vested interests behind its pronouncements. Instead, it is usually described exactly the way it describes itself, as a "non-profit research organization dedicated to studying public policy issues surrounding employment growth" that "focuses on issues that affect entry-level employment." In reality, EPI's mission is to keep the minimum wage low so Berman's clients can continue to pay their workers as little as possible."
Moreover, and contrary to your lie that only teenagers are making the minimum wage, 13.2% of all American workers spend at least half of their working lives within $1.50 of minimum wage.
As for explaining to why treating the working poor like dirt is "just not fair", I already pointed out the fact that people like you have no moral compass. Your God is the corporate marketplace, and so as far as your concerned however greedy companies want to treat their workers is A-OK with you. It would be as pointless for me to explain to you exactly why it is wrong, as it would be to explain the Sermon on the Mount to a pig.
December 23rd, 2005 at 7:13 pmTrebor,
Again I ask, why is it that 13.1% of the working public in the USA stays within $1.50/hr of minimum wage for half of their working lives?
Is their something preventing these citizens from improving themselves?
What is the demographic of the adult minimum-wage earner?
I do not have the answers to those questions. If you do, please post them, and I will also try to find some demographics that tell of the adult minimum wage earner. Who they are, where they live, etc.
Oh, and as I told 'unbelievable', cut the attacks. Vulgarity is the last refuge of a lost argument. Either debate me like an adult, or stop replying. I will afford you all the dignity and respect you deserve. Don't cheapen this forum with bilious commentary.
December 23rd, 2005 at 8:04 pmHere it is!
Trebor et al., this is a study from 1998, but it gives a little empirical data pertinent to the discussion:
http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/lwlm99/turner.htm
Some interesting stuff in there.
Everyone that is still in on this thread, have a look and see if we can find something useful in there.
~Eric
December 23rd, 2005 at 8:13 pmEric the right-wing dittohead asks:
"Is 'their' something preventing these citizens from improving themselves?"
Exactly what does your personal opinion about the working poor have to do with anything? You expect me to treat you with respect, and yet you take the extremely stupid and belittling attitude that just because somone is making close to the minimum wage, therefore they must be lazy or retarded and deserve it.
Guess what? This isn't about your ability to slander people you know absolutley nothing about. This is about paying a fair days wage for an honest days work, reguardless of who it is or whether or not you think they deserve it. I could care less whether you think some people deserve to be cheated and paid slave wages. The fact of the matter is that nobody does. Nobody deserves to live in absolute poverty and not be able to afford the basic necessities of life if they are willing to do an honest days work. They are human beings, and your attempt to pretend they deserve to be treated as something less than human is more a reflection of what you are than what they are.
In short: you obviously don't know what the hell you're talking about, since all you seem to be able to do is to slander the poor, post blatant lies and phoney studies from right-wing business think tanks.
OTOH, if you really want to change the subject and talk about people who might deserve the minimum wage most of all, let's talk about those who live off stocks, bonds and capital gains and never produce anything but their own excrement, and probably never did an honest days work in their life. But let's not equate this kind of leech with the working poor, inasmuch as they actually DO work for a living.
December 23rd, 2005 at 10:58 pmTrebor,
Look at the web-site I posted.
75% of all minimum wage earners worked between 1-19 hours per week. The average work week among them was 9.2 hours per week. Are these people working second jobs? They are clearly not even close to full-time employees.
Go through the entire study and then come back to me with your non-vile commentary.
I have yet to slander anyone. I have merely asked pertinent social questions to try and figure out why people tend to hover around minimum-wage as adults.
I have you figured out Trebor. You are a social collectivist who functions under the fallacy of class envy. It appears you have dedicated yourself to rewarding mediocrity while punishing success (wealth transfer). The idea that I earned what I have and should therefore keep it, and not be forced to transfer a portion to 'you' must seem very alien to you.
Again....review the study I posted. It supports both of our positions in this debate. Or, you could just fire off some half-baked, whiney, "You're an evil pro-business guy with no compassion!" retort.
You choose.
December 24th, 2005 at 11:59 amEric the corporate dittohead writes:
Look at the web-site I posted. 75% of all minimum wage earners worked between 1-19 hours per week. bla bla bla
Who cares? What does that have to do with anything? Many companies will only hire part time employees because they won't have to pay them any benefits. Again, this isn't about whether you think there are workers out there who don't deserve to be paid a living wage. This isn't about your ability to judge who is worthy to be treated as a human being, and who employers are free to cheat and take advantage of as if they were dirt. This is about paying a fair days wage for an honest days work, reguardless of whether or not you think workers deserve it.
You spend so much time worrying about whether the working poor deserve to be treated like human beings, why don't you spend more time thinking about their greedy employers, and what sort of human being they are? Why don't you spend more time thinking about employers who cheat and rob their employees for the sake of some parasites on wall street or some bond baby who never did an honest days work in their life? There are two sides to the minimum wage debate. So why are you always shilling for employers and trying to demean the character of workers, while turning a blind eye to the character of those profiting from their labor?
It must be because you are a greedy social parasite that never did an honest day's work in your life, and to keep your dividend checks rolling in you attack and dehumanize the same workers who are supporting you by their labor.
December 24th, 2005 at 1:55 pmDems are hypocrits on the minimum wage issue and on ALL social wlefare issues. Why? Because the moment there is no longer a large and permanent economic underclass in America is the minute the Dems become utterly irrelevant. If everyone is relatively propserous, the Dem party would vanish like the dinosaurs. Problem is, most Republicans, especially the elite, also want a permanent underclass. Being powerful and wealthy is not much of an ego or pride trip unless it s very exclusive club and there are truly poor people to feel sorry for and bestow largesse upon to allevaite guilt while getting a tax write off. Its really twisted in both sides of the aisle. Economic populism would sell to 75% of the Country but would also get the candidate a spot next to Honest Abe, JFK and MLK, Jr.
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February 23rd, 2009 at 3:23 amShag Hairstyles and Haircuts...
shag hairstyle basically gotits name from the word "shaggy" since ...once the hair is cutand layered it gives off a shaggy look. The shag hairstyle has always been apopular hairstyle, and there are plenty ofshag hairstyles to choose from...
March 26th, 2009 at 10:07 pmArbonne skin care line overview...
Arbonne International is one of the leading companies in the world when it comes to skin care. Its skin care line is one of the best in the world that many women. The products of Arbonne International skin care products are developed in Switzerland....
April 20th, 2009 at 4:53 pm