Caught on Tape: Bush Admits WMD Were Irrelevant
Caught on Tape: Bush Admits WMD Were Irrelevant
On day that the United States invaded Iraq, President Bush said that we were doing so “reluctantly” but that “our purpose was clear” — to get rid of Saddam’s “weapons of mass murder.” (Note: Bush did not say “purposes.” According to Bush, there was only one purpose.)
Yesterday on Brit Hume, he said he would have invaded even if he knew there were no weapons of mass destruction. Would have been nice if he’d mentioned this earlier.
We’ve got the video evidence:
Full Transcript:
12/14/05:
BUSH: I said I made the right decision. Knowing what I know today, I would have still made that decision.
HUME: So, if you had had this — if the weapons had been out of the equation because the intelligence did not conclude that he had them, it was still the right call?
BUSH: Absolutely.
3/19/03:
Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly — yet, our purpose is sure. The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder.
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Check the date on the last quote? Looks like you’re a couple of years out…
December 15th, 2005 at 12:07 pmHe didn’t give the people the right to decide if they wanted war based on reasons other than WMDs. He’s a liar and a 2-bit criminal.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:07 pmOh. My. F*cking. God.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:08 pmWill he be impeached now? There is his admission that his letter to Congress of 3/19/03 was a pack of lies.
How many times a week does KKKarl tell Bush “Don’t worry. The public has a short memory.”???
December 15th, 2005 at 12:09 pmThanks Nick, I fixed it.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:11 pmIf you don’t understand the complexity of a man who wants to reluctantly plow through Iraq in a gung-ho fashion, well, I’d say fool me once, shame on you fool me twice we don’t get fooled again.
(Good one, Mr. President. Good one.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:12 pmAWARD FOR BEST DESCRIPTION OF GEORGE W. BUSH.
TO: LEON HADAR FOR – “A PARROT ON CRACK”
“It assumes that if the administration was so successful in convincing Joe Blow in Peoria that Saddam was behind 9/11 and was planning to nuke Cincinnati, there is no reason that the administration can’t also make Ahab the Arab believe that the Bushies want to bring freedom to the Middle East and peace to the Holy Land. All you need is not to deviate from a consistent message that you repeat several times a day like a parrot on crack: Democracy! Democracy! Democracy! Eventually those guys in the Middle East will come to their senses and figure out that American intentions are good and that the country’s commitment to spreading democracy is not merely a hypocritical justification for getting rid of regimes that President Bush and The Weekly Standard dislike. ”
http://www.amconmag.com/2005/2005_12_19/article2.html
December 15th, 2005 at 12:14 pmIsn’t this the same sort of elitist nonsense that drove our founding fathers to revolution? So why are we tolerating it?
December 15th, 2005 at 12:14 pmEven if George W Bush would have invaded Iraq if he knew there was no threat of WMDs, Congress and the American people would not have. But that probably escaped him.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:16 pmI guess he should express gratitude that the intelligence was wrong. If he had good intelligence, he would not have gotten what he wanted.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:17 pmBush should be impeached for lying to Congress and the American people.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:18 pmIn the same announcement he said, “I want Americans and all the world to know that coalition forces will make every effort to spare innocent civilians from harm.” Evidently 30,000 innocent civilian deaths “more or less” is an acceptible figure to this president. This was an unnecessary war of choice, with horrible consequences.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:19 pmMotive leads me to believe that the faulty intelligence was manufactured to get Bush what he wanted… after all he started calling himself the Wartime President. Not us.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:20 pmTreason? War crimes? Naw, of course not. We’re just politicizing death, we should be cheering it on like the neo-conmen. Maybe it is time for another revolution…
December 15th, 2005 at 12:20 pmThe sad facts are, that the GOP was overly aggressive to impeach Clinton for telling a lie about his intimate relationship with an intern.
Now, the same GOP is obstructing justice and providing safe-harbor for GWB, who lied about the justification for going to WAR, and, by his own admission, caused the deaths of 30K Iraqis and over 2K us soldiers. Not to mention the tens of thousands who were injured and their families who’s lives have been ruined. The debate is not over yet about the number of Iraqis he had killed!
But this Congress is complicit in the crime. There must be a way to stop this corruption. Keep these posts coming.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:24 pmHe and the other warmongers in his administration are war criminals who, if this were a just world, should be in jail now.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:26 pm30,000 innocent civilian deaths
That number (Bush was quoted as saying 30,000) includes the terrorists (that we killed), the civilians (that the terrorists killed), and the civilians (that we killed) … not just “innocent civilians”.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:26 pmMotive leads me to believe that the faulty intelligence was manufactured to get Bush what he wanted
Is this another one of those, “I know” he lied moments unbelievable (like yesterday).
I’m not acribing this to you unbelievable … I’m always confused as to why people can’t be honest and say, “I believe with every fiber of my being that he’s evil and he lied” and not “I know” (which you, unless you’re God, couldn’t possibly “know”). Is it because the argument is stronger if one “knows”?
December 15th, 2005 at 12:30 pmBook ‘em Danno.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:31 pmThe cork is just about to come out of the bottle. This seems like a big, well calculated
December 15th, 2005 at 12:32 pmcover story for what? The CIA about have a few people retire and get a chance to set a few stories straight before the next election. They’ve had enough of the scape goat / whipping boy m.o.What about Sen. Pat Roberts and Phase 2/ What about AbleDanger?
What did Joe Wilson know and can’t prove it in public yet? Oh, so while we wait for our for our Budget Surplus to evaporate along with the stamina of our Boots on the ground tell us what we have to show for it. Give me an Iraqi stipend like they do in Alaska. Kick back, peace dividend, call it what you want, I want a check! issue me some Iraqi IPO for our new U. S. Citizens Oil company. We paid for that Army why can’t we get some of it back. Directly. Let them be welocomed to Democracy with an Impact Fee on the National level. We have subsidized their safety with our resources, cant we get a tangible return on our investment?
The Shell Game
December 14, 2005
The article “Iraq war need nears $100 billion†by Liz Sidoti of the Associated Press demonstrate the failure of our government and the mainstream media to come to terms of the true facts of why we invaded Iraq and still requesting billions more to support that Big Fat Lie known as the Iraq war. The failure of the Republican and Democrat Parties to clarify and justify why we’re still in Iraq will cost this country more billions down the road as well as human lives, both Iraqi and American. The recent speeches of President Bush continue to deceive the American public why we’re in Iraq to the point that any word that comes out of his mouth is a non seqiutur, just like the recent and present demands to keep funding this deliberate and fabricated war. I’m sure you have heard of me numerous of times referring the Iraq war as The Big Fat Lie and even Bush will supported me in this: during the 2004 election debate with John Kerry, President Bush admitted publicly that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or any connection with al-Qaeda, as the bipartisan 9/11 Commission reported. Yet the general media continuingly refuse to call him on that. Why? And why should we continue to shell out? The answer couldn’t be what the president had stated: The administration long has contended that it can’t put a price tag on future cost because of the unpredictable nature of war. The statement’s error is two-fold: we are putting a price on this war and it’s unlimited. As for its unpredictability the news on the war front has been a disaster on a day-to-day basis with no end on sight, further justifying the bogus cost of this bogus war. The one question President Bush won’t ever answer: “Why with every failed and fabricated assertions you have made and continue to make about this costly and disastrous war you have yet to step down from office?â€
December 15th, 2005 at 12:41 pm17- but that number is probably far short of the actual total. But then again, we don’t do body counts. Just like in Vietnam.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:43 pmThis administration can’t defend what it has done, it’s transparent and no effort to obfuscate and spin meaningless propaganda can put this cat back in its bag. Every lie has been debunked and many of the citizens that gave these criminals the benefit of the doubt now realize that they’ve been duped. Their only hope is to continue with big, brazen lies using a complicit mainstream media to push their version of the story. Americans need only ignore their words and observe their deeds to understand how bad things really are since the Bushies took office.
Let’s hope Fitzgerald indicts Rove before the end of the year, throwing Bush further into his tailspin. His jaw will progress from jumpy to downright unglued. Would make for such a merry Christmas. Let’s go Fitz!
December 15th, 2005 at 12:43 pmAs Paul Wolfowitz admitted, WMDs just served as something they could sell to the public to gain support for the war. What the president needs to do, if he wishes to fulfill his campaign promise to “restore honesty and integrity to the White House”, is to fully reveal to the American public the role that PNAC (The Project for a New American Century) and the people from that group that made it into the administration had in the decision to invade Iraq.
I recommend David Ray Griffin’s excellent book “The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions.” It lays out many things that most people are unaware of that cast doubt on the official explanation for what happened that day and also shows why the claims for invading Iraq should have been greeted with much suspicion. One good tidbit to start you off: Did you know that six of the nineteen alleged hijackers turned up alive several days later?
The War in Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, WMDs or lilberating the Iraqi people from a brutal dictator.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:44 pmGiacomo – How many “I know’s” did Bush shout at us during his run-up speeches? It was a mantra – “I know Saddam hussein has weapons of mass destruction,” (etc. etc., etc….).
December 15th, 2005 at 12:47 pmand now those “I know” speeches are debunked by his own admission. Why did he declare, repeatedly, that it WAS an absolute beyond doubt (which is what he did)? Did Bush lie to Congress and the Public? Is that impeachable?
He didn’t even mention the National Gaurdsmen that will be there for three or four tours.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:48 pm#17, Please check your facts. Do you have supporting evidence for you breakdown? Even the White House was unwilling to endorse Bush’s figure as an official count. What would be an acceptable number of innocent civilian deaths in a unilateral war of choice?
December 15th, 2005 at 12:52 pmGiacomo, it seems to me, has fooled himself into believing whatever lies he’s being told by the right-wing machine. There is simply no excuse at this stage in the game, if you are a thoughtful and honest person, not to be outraged by this most criminal administration. They have rendered this country unrecognizable and I’m ashamed and angered by what it has become.
All we can do is keep telling the truth, keep fighting.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:53 pmSo the argument goes, with UN sanctions against you, and as long as you don’t have the A bomb, we can unilatterally, invade your country in OUR own national interest.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:53 pmIs this business extortion or Board of directors Foreign Policy? Talk about bait and switch.
Can someone please tell me why the Liberal Media has yet to pick up on the blockbuster revelations made by Mickey Herskowitz, the fired Bush biographer who disclosed the fact that Bush wanted to invade Iraq way before he was ever elected so that he could be seen as a strong leader and use the political capital to ram his unwanted domestic policies down our throats?
When a murder is committed, one of the first things the D. A. does is try to confirm if the crime was premeditated. Well, thanks to Mickey Herskowitz, we know that invading Iraq was a premeditated act by Bush and his motives were not so virtuous.
I think Americans deserve to know this and Bush deserves to questioned about it, and not by some presstitute flack either, but by the Congress.
Here is the story about Mickey Herskowitz:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1028-01.htm
December 15th, 2005 at 12:54 pm“”Who could have possibly envisioned an erection — an election in Iraq at this point in history?”
—George W. Bush, at the white House, Washington, D.C., Jan. 10, 2005
December 15th, 2005 at 12:55 pmBut that number is probably far short of the actual total.
Perhaps …
How many “I know’s†did Bush shout at us during his run-up speeches? It was a mantra – “I know Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction,†(etc. etc., etc….).
and now those “I know†speeches are debunked by his own admission.
I agree … if you’re going to say somethings certain, it better be. As a conservative, this is something that Bush must atone for.
Why did he declare, repeatedly, that it WAS an absolute beyond doubt (which is what he did)?
Because, I think, he really did think it was a “slam dunk”. Our national “intelligence” weren’t the only agencies to say so …
Did Bush lie to Congress and the Public? Is that impeachable?
IF he lied, it should be no different than when Clinton lied (or mislead, whatever). It definitely would be impeachable. With all the TV coverage, a press that doesn’t exactly lean his direction, other nations at odds with him … I find it very hard to say that it was all a big ruse … way too many downsides for limited upside to simply be explained as a “lie over oil”.
I agree they wanted to use Iraq as a stepping stone, I agree that they allowed themselves to be led by intelligence that turned out to be horrible (given the level of intelligence we had for 9/11, I’m not sure why they were so confident on those same agencies) … now that we’re there though, we need to finish.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:56 pmOxyCon,
I can’t decide who’s been more derelict in their duty, the media or the so-called opposition party. It’s a disgrace that the “leaders” in the minority party can’t muster the courage (with a few exceptions like Boxer, Murtha, Conyers and Reid) to stand up and fight for truth and justice. Aren’t they the American way?
December 15th, 2005 at 12:57 pm#18
Motive leads me to believe that the faulty intelligence was manufactured to get Bush what he wanted
Is this another one of those, “I know†he lied moments unbelievable (like yesterday).
I didn’t use the words “I know” in that sentance Giacomo… I said “believe” (though I don’t believe in a god).
Some people do “know” things. You can keep banging your head against that wall, or come to reaize the issue isn’t with semantics (whether the correct usage is ‘believe’ or ‘know’), but with the subject posted at the opening of the forum. We think you’re focusing on the wrong issue.
By the way, did O’Reilly retract the Christmas song story? No way I was watching to find out.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:58 pm#18 who cares what you think. You creep around here and give your opinion of others’ posts. You should do a little more introspection. What kind of person has something to say about every stranger they come across? I remember your gossipy type in high school. Didn’t like your type talking about others then either. Again, who cares what you think.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:59 pm1. Bush, shortly after 9/11, decides he want to take Saddam out. (”F’ Saddam, we’re taking him out”)
2. Rumsfeld tells him they must take care of most of Afghanistan first and position forces in Kuwait so early 2003 is the earliest they can invade (need to do it prior warm weather).
3. Since there is no outright justification for invading Iraq and toppling a sovereign government, they decide on WMDs as the main selling point – distorting intelligence, cherry picking it, exaggerations, and fear. The “librul media” goes for it hook, line, and sinker.
4 As a side benefit, Bush/Rove plan votes regarding the invasion just prior to the 2002 elections, unlike what his father did, so we can use War for political gain.
5. They assume Saddam will do something stupid or we’ll at least find some WMDs, so even if #3 is found to be a fabrication, the Administration will be forgiven so it won’t be an issue.
Of course, the problem is Saddam didn’t do anything really stupid and no WMDs were found.
6. Come up with a new justification for the Invasion and Occupation.
December 15th, 2005 at 12:59 pm#31
Thanks for posting that – hilarious!!!
December 15th, 2005 at 1:00 pmGiacomo,
They didn’t “allow themselves to be led by intelligence that turned out to be horrible” at all. They created an infrastructure to parallel the established intelligence agencies. This is a fact. Do your homework on the WHIG group, the Office of Special Plans, the PNAC signatories and “stovepiping”. They created the intelligence that justified their ends, no debate about it.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:01 pmRead: as of 12/14/05 we have no defensible objection to Nation X invading Nation Y on the basis that Nation X has stovepipe intelligence demonstrating Nation Y has WMD and besides, Nation Y is run by a bad man.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:02 pm#32 I think that just shows Bush’s incompetence and stunning inexperience with governance. And who is to blame? Everyone who voted for him. Time to admit you were wrong and the liberals were right. Or you can wait for the next disaster on his watch.
And the intelligence before 9/11 showed bin Laden wanted to attack with commercial airplanes. It was Bush who did not think it was important enough to address. But as you said, if we accept his assertion that the intelligence system was “broken” then he is also culpable for either not recognizing it (after all his missaves towards Clinton) or recognizing it and doing nothing.
Clinton lied and admitted it. But he lied in a civil lawsuit. That is VERY different from lying in a rush to war.
I think Bush simply was not aware of the many downsides to starting a war in Iraq. He just doesn’t know that much history. He probably thought he could get away with lying once the war went well. He thought the war would go well.
That is incompetence defined.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:02 pm#35
Thanks… I ‘know’ that you’re right :)!
December 15th, 2005 at 1:03 pm#17, Please check your facts. Do you have supporting evidence for you breakdown?
REPORTER: Since the inception of the Iraqi war, I’d like to know the approximate total of Iraqis who have been killed. And by Iraqis I include civilians, military, police, insurgents, translators.
THE PRESIDENT: How many Iraqi citizens have died in this war? I would say 30,000, more or less, have died as a result of the initial incursion and the ongoing violence against Iraqis. We’ve lost about 2,140 of our own troops in Iraq.
No one actually knows how many have died … I was responding to comment #12 who inlcuded the number but left out the rest of what Bush said …
December 15th, 2005 at 1:04 pmOf course they were irrelevant; they didn’t exist in the first place.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:05 pmGiacomo,
That is not true. The French, Germans and Italians all told the US that the intellegence was bad.
Not to mention the “intelligence” was obtained through torture. Torture is not a reliable way to obtain information, especially if the information will be used to take a country to war.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:06 pmGiacomo,
I find it interesting that you take issue with the reference to the “30,000 innocent civilians” because you believe that they are all not “innocent”. I believe that you are wholly wrong. Here is why:
The USA declared war on Iraq. The US’s actions were not in retaliation for anything that the Iraqis did to it. The reasoning for the invasion – WMDs, 9/11 link – have proved to be false so, in fact, the Iraqis ARE innocent of the accusations that the invasion is based on.
So, any Iraqi civilians who have been killed in this moral and ethical attrocity are innocent regardless of whether they were resisting or just “collateral damage”. To argue semantics about the deaths of people who perpetrated no harm unto you whatsoever is a farce and morally reprehensible.
In fact, the only accurate definition of the cause of deaths for the Iraqis who have been killed, whether civilian or insurgent, is “murder”. Those who have caused the deaths are murderers, and those who support the perpetrators of these heinous crimes are accomplices to murder. These are the facts, they are indisputable.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:07 pm#45, Pessimist-
Exactly.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:10 pmKabuki by Bush
December 13, 2005
In “Bush says war killed 30,000 Iraqis†by Nedra Pickler present President Bush as a character in a Japanese movie called Rashomon: Bush wants to be seen in a positive light while everyone else sees differently. Desperate to reverse his sinking approval rating, Bush attempts an unscripted presentation Kabuki-style, trying to come “clean†about the true estimation of Iraqi casualties. That the World Affairs Council of Philadelphia Bush pops up the minimum body count of 30,000, hoping that public will be content with. Unfortunately, no one brought up The Lancet, the prestigious British medical journal, who estimated that about 100,000 Iraqi civilians had been killed in Iraq since it was invaded by a United States-led coalition in March 2003. It’s no surprise that Bush’s figures are way off since he had appointed Karen Hughes, undersecretary of state, to dispel anti-American sentiment around the world; she’s good company with Condi Rice. His Iraqi government progress has also come into question: the Pentagon’s paid journalists and news reports. For his last Kabuki pass, Bush stated that if he knew what he knows now he would have still made the same decision to invade Iraq. Where’s the trapdoor lever?
December 15th, 2005 at 1:13 pmIt just amazing to me that Bushworld could get away with this Iraq disaster. It just shows the total weakness of the opposition party and the “liberal” media. This is mass murder and they are getting off scott-free.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:13 pmI didn’t use the words “I know†in that sentance Giacomo… I said “believe†(though I don’t believe in a god).
I know … that’s why I was asking … it was more of a joke really.
By the way, did O’Reilly retract the Christmas song story? No way I was watching to find out.
I did Tivo it, but haven’t watched it yet … I’ll get back to you.
#18 who cares what you think. You creep around here and give your opinion of others’ posts. You should do a little more introspection. What kind of person has something to say about every stranger they come across?
I’m not asking or expecting you to “care” … and God forbid I make a comment on another’s post … because no one ever comments, right. Maybe I mistakenly assumed that this was a forum, and not, as you put it, a conversation of sorts between only those who agree. The statement about “strangers” is just silly.
I remember your gossipy type in high school. Didn’t like your type talking about others then either.
Uhmm … asking questions and making comments in a public comments section is “gossipy” how? Look, you don’t have to agree or even like me, but don’t attack my presence here by rationalizing in strange ways.
They created the intelligence that justified their ends, no debate about it.
I know all about the PNAC issue … I’m not debating that Bush wanted to oust Saddam as part of some larger plan, he did. If “they” created the intelligence, then “they” also includes the intelligence agencies of Britain, France, Australia, Italy, Spain, Israel, etc. You’d be better of saying, “they chose to ignore the intelligence that didn’t support what they thought”.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:15 pmGiacamo, the citations to those foreign intelligence services have never been verified. Britain specifically said Iraq’s WMD capabilities were less than Iran, NK, and Libya.
You may be referring to the forged documents from Italy, but they did not actually come from Italian intelligence agents.
Spain, as you know, booted their government out for its complicity in the invasion.
This is the first I’ve heard of Israel supporting W’s conclusions. Can you cite anything specific?
The real culprits are the WHIG people. They edited reports and bypassed the CIA to get the results they wanted, for whatever “larger plan” they had in mind. That larger plan is now inoperative and they are scrambling to save their asses.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:21 pm#45 Precisely. Unfortunately, all Americans (whether for or against the admin) are also culpable. We, as a nation, have this blood on our hands (and that is each of us, individually), and the Administration (and its apologists) are simply looking for more blood – criminals drunk on their own horrible natures. We are all guilty of these crimes, and until they end, the rap sheet against us grows. Sad, but true.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:23 pm36- I think #4 is far more than a side benefit: if anything, it was raison d’etre for the invasion of Iraq. The timing of the authorization vote was brazenly, obviously, politically motivated. In my opinion, this has been for domestic political purposes. It surely wasn’t for national security reasons.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:25 pmGiacomo,
You admit that the war on Iraq was about “some larger plan”, but my question to you is: do you recognize that they lied to the country and the Congress in order to achieve their premeditated goals?
“They” are the groups that I mentioned, including WHIG and OSP. These were secretive groups created by THIS ADMINISTRATION by the neocon elements appointed power. Their were certainly elements of foreign intelligence agencies that also provided information that justified a case for deposing Hussein, but those same agencies also provided dissenting information (as our CIA did). The Bush administration acknowledged none of that dissent. That is unacceptable in matters of war and peace. As was said earlier, anyone that supports this administration at this point (especially someone that obviously follows these matters of serious political consequence), is now complicit if they are not calling for Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and the rest of the cabal’s heads.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:26 pmIn refernce to #47 – Republicans take note: if the actions of America, in the world and within its own borders, were ‘right’, ‘just’, and ‘moral’, then we would not NEED to send out people to improve the US image and assuage “anti-American” sentiment (that is, “Spread propoganda”).
December 15th, 2005 at 1:28 pmHello.
If the world is shaking its finger at you while saying, “Naughty, naughty”, you ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG. Get off the Christian holier than thou, our religion is it and you better get used to it soapbox, and join reality. The world is aghast at what America has become. Wake the F&** up, people!
#45 – Not a very Christian attitude is it? WWJD? Yeah right.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:29 pmComment 45
The USA declared war on Iraq.
No, we didn’t. We did invade them though.
The US’s actions were not in retaliation for anything that the Iraqis did to it.
If by Iraqis you mean the Iraqi people, I agree. If you mean Saddam, then you are incorrect. Our “justification” was that he had failed to comply with 20+ UN resolutions. While I agree that he deserved to go, I would’ve preferred an International force that more resembled the 1st Gulf “war”.
The reasoning for the invasion – WMDs, 9/11 link – have proved to be false so, in fact, the Iraqis ARE innocent of the accusations that the invasion is based on.
WMDs certainly aren’t there. No 9/11 link as well. I agree. Those weren’t the only reasons we invaded (refer to the aforementioned UN resolutions). The Iraqi people are innocent … Saddam certainly was not.
So, any Iraqi civilians who have been killed in this moral and ethical attrocity are innocent regardless of whether they were resisting or just “collateral damageâ€.
I could agree with your progressional logic up until here. To say that a jihadist who enters the country specifically to do battle is innocent is faulty. If you said that a) we invaded illegally and b) Saddam’s army had no choice but to fight back … then maybe. Saddam’s gone now (and has been for 2 years). The rest of the civilians (the vast majority) want to set up a new democracy … those that continue to resist are not just resisiting us but a plurality of their own people. Do we consider those who fought for the British during our own Revolutionary War to be “innocent” … no.
To argue semantics about the deaths of people who perpetrated no harm unto you whatsoever is a farce and morally reprehensible.
It was a semantic argument, but often misquotes and exagerated comments are stated as factualy accurate. 30,000 dead anyone is horrible … to say our forces solely did that is incorrect (the terrorists have killed far more Iraqi civilians than we have). The Bush administration has enough legitimate gaffs and mistakes to attack without aggrandizing smaller ones.
In fact, the only accurate definition of the cause of deaths for the Iraqis who have been killed, whether civilian or insurgent, is “murderâ€. Those who have caused the deaths are murderers, and those who support the perpetrators of these heinous crimes are accomplices to murder.
War is indeed hell. Are you calling our troops who are ordered to be there murderers? This is a tad morally relativistic isn’t it. Have you called those bombing restaurants murderers? Maybe you have.
These are the facts, they are indisputable.
Perhaps to you. (The “murderer” label is no fact, it’s opinion.)
December 15th, 2005 at 1:30 pmIsn’t there another revelation here… that Bush still regards the Contitution as toilet paper?
Surely the question is not whether, knowing what he knows today, Bush would have made the same decision about going to war – the question is whether Congress would have authorized the war.
Surely…
December 15th, 2005 at 1:30 pm#49 That is not how I put it. You are merely confused as you have stated before.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:30 pmmysticagent #51,
Hmmmm, I have a bit of trouble accepting responsibility for something that I so vehemently opposed, but I do understand what you’re saying. Look, nothing short of a full-scale, bloody revolt on the Bush administration would have stopped this illegal, immoral, criminal war. I may have blood on my hands, but it’s from trying to stop the crime rather than being accomplice to it.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:32 pmMysticagent,
Yes, the USA and ALL of its citizens are technically guilty of the crimes that are at the foundation of this conflict, murder, manslaughter, assault, etc…
What disturbs me greatly is that the populace of the US takes such a cavalier and removed position about all of this, all the while ignoring the blood on their collective hands.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:34 pmGia, I find your psuedo intelligence, or at least your attempt to make sure we all “think” you are, is a drain. You post ad nauseum here and I feel people like you, those who have so much time to troll the internet, should spend more of it, or any of it, helping others. You know, like Jesus would do.
The amount of time you spend here is sad – sad for the many people who need that Christian charity of yours. Shame on you for wasting your time. What are you a student?
December 15th, 2005 at 1:35 pmThis happens everytime I post. I make one comment (in this case it was to correct the 30,000 comment to what was actually said by Bush) and everyone automatically assumes I’m pro-war and in love with Bush.
What I am constantly amazed by is the level of vitriol over Bush … it’s not enough that the Iraq war is ill-advised and poorly planned. No … it’s “illegal, immoral, based upon a lie, a part of a grander scheme, etc.”. All these MAY be so … but they don’t need to be so for one to protest the war (or disagree with it). There’s a difference between dissent and demonization … I see constant demonization, and to me, it cheapens the argument. When I try to point out a statement that’s less about dissent and more about demonizing … then I’m demonized. It’s a weird phenomenon.
Why must people be “evil, Nazi, fascist” if they disagree … I know many of you firmly believe this … it’s very odd. It’s the “I’m right and you’re wrong” taken to the moral level “I’m right and you’re evil for disagreeing”. Heck, someone basically just called me complicit in murder … do I respond by calling that person evil. No … misinformed, angry, having a propensity for outlandish ideas, maybe.
To review
December 15th, 2005 at 1:46 pm1) I can be conservative and still disagree with some conservative policy … for you not to understand this is juvenile and myopic.
2) I can be conservative and not adhere to all the talking points that you assume conservatives agree with.
3) I can disagree with your opinions and not be any less moral than you … for a bunch of “progressives” you’re talking on a level that Christian fundamentalists often use. “She’s a Witch, Burn Her”
I am sure that TP and other sites have researchers and archivists who are quite up to the task of setting Bush&Co lies in chronological order, so that when his impeachment trial comes before Congress, the case against him and his lies can be clearly laid out.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:47 pmI doubt that the MSM can or will do it.
His contradictions (flip-flops) are becoming legendary now — they are hugely important in illstrating Bush&Co duplicity in taking us to war. His war of choice.
The amount of time you spend here is sad – sad for the many people who need that Christian charity of yours. Shame on you for wasting your time. What are you a student?
Nah … I just work 11 hours a day and take breaks to respond as I feel.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:49 pmDah! Wolfowitz already said this – “it was a matter of emphasis.”
Besides anyone that can joke about WMD, can NOT and WAS NOT serious. Who in their right mind makes fun of WMD; ever! Oh my God!
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/26/bush.wmd.jokes/
What is odd, is these guys were marketed to us as macho, yet they didn’t have the balls or the belief in their own conviction of what they were doing was right, to be straight with us about why we were going to war. And why did they have to create the PR “Shock and Awe” and the lies about Tillman and Lynch. And what about all that stuff Cheney and Rumsfeld were saying about how we would be greated, the cost in money and lives, the use of Iraq oil to pay for things, and the length of time. If there was one time in these guys lives that they should have been straight shooters, they failed.
Let’s not forget that Bush campaigned against nation building in 2000. But then appointed all these guys from PNAC that wanted to control the middle east.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:49 pmGiacomo,
You’re confused. The vitriol is less about Bush and more about the fact that the current leadership is in the process of destroying the country that we love and hope to raise our children in (at least that goes for me). It’s about lying to the people that you serve (and who entrust you to do what’s right) for a war that serves Big Oil and war-profiteering interests, it’s about stealing from our treasury to fatten the wallets of your cronies and your campaign contributors. It’s about mind-boggling hypocrisy, and quashing dissent. It’s about propaganda, and the destruction of our system of checks and balances. It’s about knocking down the walls between church and state and ripping apart the environment and social justice to consolidate wealth further upward. It’s about dividing the American people for political gain and stealing elections.
You don’t seem to understand what’s at stake here. We are talking about a group of people that are actively pursuing goals that turn the clock back 150 years. These people are destructive and they’re making our world a much more violent and
December 15th, 2005 at 2:04 pmdangerous place. They think it’s okay to erode our civil liberties and privatize everything that they can get their grubby paws on even if (especially if) it’s at the expense of the less fortunate. This is not about a simple disagreement on some small details, it’s about fighting to preserve a once great country and the ideals that it’s forefathers imagined and it’s historic leaders had the courage to improve upon. This is a pivotal and critical moment in American history and I hate to tell you that you are arguing on the side of evil, whether you realize it or not.
The reason the military is having a problem with its recruiting has EVERYTHING to do with a lack of credibility with respect to the reasons behind the war…
Both the active Army and Army National Guard continued reversing a springtime recruiting slump, exceeding their November goals at 105 and 110 percent, respectively, defense officials announced today.
http://www.vnis.com/story.cfm?textnewsid=1776
“The active Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force also exceeded their November goals, reporting rates of 102, 105 and 101 percent, respectively. The Marine Corps Reserve and Air Force Reserve achieved 100 percent of their November recruiting goals as well, officials reported.”
December 15th, 2005 at 2:06 pmContractions are a bitch :0
December 15th, 2005 at 2:08 pmGiacomo,
I appreciate your response in post #56.
Now, you attempt to group “jihadists” in with Iraqi civilians, not me. When I reference Iraqi civilians, that is precisely what I mean. And to compare the Iraqi situation with the US’s own revolutionary war is so incredibly inaccurate that it is almost laughable considering that to make such a comparison would be placing the US in the role of the British. Is that the assertion that you are making?
The point that you make that the US is not to blame for all of the Iraqi civilian deaths because “insurgents” and “terrorists” have caused some is ludicrous. The US is solely responsible for the event, and is therefore responsible for the results of the event. You do not place the blame of the effects of the explosion of a grenade on each of the fragments, nor do you blame the grenade, but it is the one who threw the grenade who is wholly responsible.
Although I find fault with the technicalities that you try to use to explain away responsibility on these attrocities, I take particular issue with your last assertion in that “War is indeed hell”. It is ironic that you begin your post challenging my assertion that the US declared war on Iraq because you feel that it was just an “invasion”, and then you dismiss the casualties of the action by saying “War is indeed hell”. Regardless of your choice of words the action itself is illegal and wrong, regardless of whether it is a “war” or an “invasion”.
And finally, to purposefully kill another human in an act other than defense is MURDER (look up the definition). Therefore, those who perform the actual act are, in fact, murderers. I do not support murder in any form, regardless of who perpetrates it.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:08 pmGeoMetro is wrong again – surprised anyone?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/18/national/18recruit.html?ex=1289970000&en=a480710e8beb5e94&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
You really need to get out more, you seem ridiculously stupid on every topic you post.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:09 pmThis is not about a simple disagreement on some small details, it’s about fighting to preserve a once great country and the ideals that it’s forefathers imagined and it’s historic leaders had the courage to improve upon.
I’ve heard conservatives say the exact same line … everyone is trying to “save” the country from everyone else. If you go on right wing sites, they’re spewing the opposite form of venom.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:11 pmRyan’s article – dated November 18, 2005
My article – dated December 12, 2005
Here’s one from the Washington Times Ryan … are they wrong too.
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20051212-110459-3810r.htm
December 15th, 2005 at 2:13 pm62- It would seem almost everyone, yourself included, is guilty of hyperbole at some point on this site. If opposition to Bush’s policies is vitiolic, try going to Red Stooge, LGF, or Freeperville- that’s vitriolic. And if you think you have been demonized, try being an anti-war progressive/liberal. The is an entire cable news network devoted to demonizing us. Hey, I think the war was illegal, and apparently so did the AG-equivalent minister of the UK. Is he being shrill, too? I have yet to find any compelling reason for the invasion. Those given could be applied to a slew of “dictators,” many that are still in the good graces of the US government. Why the one sitting atop huge oil reserves that did not attack the US, or have WMD(program related activities)? And don’t even get me started on ignored UN mandates…
December 15th, 2005 at 2:16 pmGiacomo,
The conservatives don’t tell the truth, that’s the difference. Just look around man, believe your eyes.
Simple question. Do you think that this preident was honest when he made his case for invading Iraq?
December 15th, 2005 at 2:16 pmSo, in less than a month the military has gone from not having enough people to having plenty of people. Seems a little fishy to me.
Can anybody say propaganda? I knew you could.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:17 pmWhy doesn’t Hume ask the appropriate follow-up question?
“But then why did you say in 2003 that the purpose was weapons of mass murder?”
December 15th, 2005 at 2:21 pmHere’s one from the Washington Times Ryan … are they wrong too.
That is a little too easy. Couldn’t find a quote from Rush?
December 15th, 2005 at 2:24 pmto compare the Iraqi situation with the US’s own revolutionary war is so incredibly inaccurate that it is almost laughable considering that to make such a comparison would be placing the US in the role of the British
I knew you’d say this … but no, Saddam would be in roll of the British … the current US forces would be more akin to France. That’s not the point though … the majority of Iraqis want this to work and those Iraqis that don’t (and join in the terrorism) are the equivalent to our “Benedict Arnolds” … maybe it was a dumb point.
The point that you make that the US is not to blame for all of the Iraqi civilian deaths because “insurgents†and “terrorists†have caused some is ludicrous.
While I understand your concept (that, if the US isn’t there, then the terrorists aren’t fighting) it does fall somwhat given that Saddam killed his own people (and others) prior to our presence. I would place at least as much, if not more, blame on Saddam for our presence there … whether or not we should’ve gone it alone, his continual failure to comply with numerous UN resolutions left him open.
It is ironic that you begin your post challenging my assertion that the US declared war on Iraq because you feel that it was just an “invasionâ€, and then you dismiss the casualties of the action by saying “War is indeed hellâ€.
My point number one is that war is declared by Congress … since it wasn’t, we’re not, technically, at war. I could understand you believing my comments were dismissive if I said “war is hell” which has degenerated into a causal excuse of a statement. What I did say was “war is indeed hell” trying to use the statement in a less dissmissive way … it didn’t work. I’ll say this, loss of any life (even terrorists is sad and regretable). While I think there are those that may deserve to die (for their actions, perhaps) I don’t adhere to the idea that we should be the ones to get them there. Casualties and innocents are always swept into a war … sometimes the inevitability of that fact makes people say, “oh well”. That’s not what I was saying.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:27 pm
December 15th, 2005 at 2:27 pm#11 – “Bush should be impeached for lying to Congress and the American people.”
December 15th, 2005 at 2:28 pmComment by Andrew C. White — December 15, 2005 @ 12:18 pm
*****Andrew C., I will support the impeachment of President Bush for “lying” when you support the impeachment of Senators Clinton, Biden, Kerry, Edwards, and EVERY one of those phonies who supported the enforcement of UN resolutions – you progs must have a terrible case of acid reflux from regurgitating the same tired falsehood.
Ennnnnnn, worng.
It doesn’t matter what Donald Rumsfeld wants people to call them, we are fighting insurgents that want their country back from the occupying forces. It really is that simple. Then there are a handleful of terrorists that have joined in for the hell of it. We are fighting the the disbanded Republican Guard. If you don’t think that Saddam had thousands and thousands of loyal followers, you are fooling yourself.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:31 pmSo this is Christmas
And what have you done
Another year over
And a new one just begun
And so this is Christmas
I hope you have fun
The near and the dear ones
The old and the young
A very merry Christmas
And a happy New Year
Let’s hope it’s a good one
Without any fear
And so this is Christmas
For weak and for strong
For rich and the poor ones
The road is so long
And so happy Christmas
For black and for white
For yellow and red ones
Let’s stop all the fight
And so this is Christmas
And what have we done
Another year over
And a new one just begun
And so happy Christmas
I hope you have fun
The near and the dear one
The old and the young
War is over if you want it
War is over now now
John Lennon
That would be so nice…
December 15th, 2005 at 2:32 pmWow, mighty aphrodite, your first post in ages and you mention Clinton. I guess you haven’t done anymore reading or learning or anything to improve and expand your knowledge. Still stating the same old tired stuff. Yawn.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:32 pmSimple question. Do you think that this preident was honest when he made his case for invading Iraq?
I think he thought he was doing the right thing … much like I think Murtha feels he’s doing the right thing (even though I disagree with him).
Put yourself in Bush’s shoes. As president, your country was just attacked (9/11). It’s your job to see that it doesn’t happen again. Should it happen again, you will be remembered as a President that was attacked once and then did nothing. You steamroll through afghanistan … you are given problematic evidence on Iraq … some of the evidence isn’t conclusive … some is. You ask your intelligence … they say, slam dunk. You ask you closest ally … they say they agree. You ask your political opponents (who look at the same intelligence) … they say they tenatively agree. You go before the people and bring to them the thing that seems most damning about Iraq (and the one that they’ll most agree could effect them) – WMDs. You invade … you’re wrong. Sucks to be you.
I can see the scenario I just described (with a dash of PNAC convenience added in) occurring.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:34 pmaphrodite,
Deal, I support impeaching Clinton, Kerry, Biden and the rest of the complicit Democrats if the Bushies go. So lets get the hearings underway. Absolutely no debate about it. I’m almost as disgusted with the D’s as I am the R’s for playing along. Remove em all!
December 15th, 2005 at 2:37 pmGiacomo,
You are hopelessly misguided. I give up, best of luck.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:38 pmMy neighbor threw his dog turds into my yard so I went down to the coffee shop and beat the mortal crap out of the server behind the counter. I didn’t like the looks of him and I’d heard he served someone decaf once.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:38 pmDodgeball,
Did you also threaten the other coffee shop employees for cheering him on as you beat the snot out of him? I’d seriously consider kicking their asses too, that way they could all be liberated from their jobs. Don’t forget to grab all the coffee as you leave.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:44 pmYou are hopelessly misguided. I give up, best of luck.
Wouldn’t be the first time someone thought that … thanks for trying.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:44 pmGiacomo,
One last thing before I write you off. In the name of hearing both sides of the story, go out and get yourself a copy of Al Franken’s new book or borrow it from one of your many liberal friends. It’s really brilliant, factual and loaded with reams of important information. Funny too. A good read for anyone that loves this country.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:47 pmWhat if the coffee shop owner supported turd throwing, refused to pay his employees, had served overly hot coffee to his patrons, a couple times poisoned customers, and refused to allow others to stay on site to make sure he didn’t poison others. What then?
December 15th, 2005 at 2:47 pmI liken Al Franken to Michael Savage … both of them are wingnut hacks if you asked me.
That said, maybe I’ll pick up the book.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:49 pmWhile they claimed to have boxed him in … secretly they had deals with him for cheap coffee. Knowing this, you assumed they had their onw interests at heart. (I like this reparte much better, actually).
December 15th, 2005 at 2:52 pmSpudgeMAN – With the lefts’ ENDLESS references to Hitler and Nazi’s, what are you guys still doing here??? I would have thought the secret police would have rounded you up by now.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:52 pmGiacomo,
You’ve never really paid attention to Al Franken’s politics or read his books.
I promise you, with every ounce of my soul that there is NOTHING extremist or fringe about his views. Well researched, well footnoted, well-argued. Honest.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:52 pmWell, to keep my poll numbers up I would get Osama bin Laden “Dead or alive” I wouldn’t attack a non-involved country and I would listen to the minority party.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:53 pmOK … I’ll read it. I saw him on the daily show not long ago … he kinda annoyed me.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:54 pmWell, to keep my poll numbers up I would get Osama bin Laden “Dead or alive†I wouldn’t attack a non-involved country and I would listen to the minority party.
You may be surprised, but I tend to agree with you Spudge … I just don’t think his motives were as evil as some assume.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:55 pmWhat if the coffee shop owner had dog turd related program activities… This getting too silly.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:56 pmGiacomo asks: “What if the coffee shop owner supported turd throwing, refused to pay his employees, had served overly hot coffee to his patrons, a couple times poisoned customers, and refused to allow others to stay on site to make sure he didn’t poison others. What then?”
Why, I would do what any self-respecting neocon would do–I’d go over to the car wash and trip the girl who washes the windows.
December 15th, 2005 at 2:56 pm#85 – “I guess you haven’t done anymore reading or learning or anything to improve and expand your knowledge. Still stating the same old tired stuff. Yawn.”
December 15th, 2005 at 2:58 pmComment by Spudge_Boy
******Spudge – After hearing you whine for the zillionth time about lying to the American people, I’ve reached a conclusion: “I guess you haven’t done anymore reading or learning or anything to improve and expand your knowledge. Still stating the same old tired stuff. Yawn.” ZZZzzzzz
What if the coffee shop owner had tried to poison your father, had attacked the store next door for their coffee, had been taken to court 26 times and not once been put in jail for repeatedly failing to comply with his probation … What if the court seemed bent on ignoring his infractions and were later found out to be getting kickbacks from his coffee sales … and the real clincher, what if you really, really like coffee and need it to survive.
December 15th, 2005 at 3:00 pm“dog turd related program activities”…..LOL!
Mmmmmm…..cognitive dissonance (in my best Homer Simpson voice).
Reality is too much to bare for some. I understand, but you can’t be allowed to make decisions in the reality-based world. Sorry.
December 15th, 2005 at 3:00 pmWait a sec…Giacomo asked a trick question. I happen to know that Ronald Dumsfeld sold the coffee shop waiter some dog turds back in the 1980s. Seems like there’s always a market out there for tossable dog turds and some of “our” industries are only too happy to supply them.
December 15th, 2005 at 3:02 pmBut you can’t be allowed to make decisions in the reality-based world. Sorry.
You’d probably like my decisions much more than Bush’s actually.
December 15th, 2005 at 3:02 pmI happen to know that Ronald Dumsfeld sold the coffee shop waiter some dog turds back in the 1980s. Seems like there’s always a market out there for tossable dog turds and some of “our†industries are only too happy to supply them.
What if you sold those turds to him so he could throw them at someone worse … now, of course, you want your turds back.
December 15th, 2005 at 3:03 pmThe path ultimatly leads back to George Tenent.
He understood what the President wanted, and he gave it to him.
Then he got out of Dodge and started erasing his tracks.
December 15th, 2005 at 3:17 pmSo in post 105 you are saying, that because saddam wasn;t behaving, 30,000 people had to die?
And 30,000 is low. Red Cross estimates more like 3 times that number.
You don’t go to war unless there is NO other choice genius.
December 15th, 2005 at 3:20 pmSo now its ok for the President to lie to Americans, Congress and UN because he wants to remove a bad leader. Who’s next and what lie will he make up to do it again. What if other countries followed this new US policy? Lets think, what if a country thinks George W. Bush is a bad leader does that country have the right to come on US soil and remove Bush? We have a dictator in office and the play book is the old Russia. We make Saddam look like a nice guy. I wonder what other world leaders think of the new US policy of invasding a country based on removing a leader. We are now the axis of evil and the UN has to step in to stop this. The American people are sitting by watching our children die everyday based on lies. What would the 2000 plus soldiers that died already think of the Presidents statements as they were told by their Commander-in-Chief that they were there for WMD. I guess for some parents its better to believe the old lie then to deal with the fact that the President lied and their child lied based on that lie. God save America from Bush.
December 15th, 2005 at 3:21 pm#81, THAT’s what I want for Christmas!! For all of us.
December 15th, 2005 at 3:25 pmIf I ask Santa really nice, and bake some really good cookies, do you think he”ll bring it?
Let me give you an example.
Suppose I am walking down the street and I see you on the opposite side of the street.
I know you don’t like me, and lets say you have threatened to beat me up in the past.
So I cross the street, and belt you right in the mouth, knocking you out.
When the police arrive, I tell them that I just launched a “pre-emptive strike”.
What do you think the police are going to do next?
In the US, a citizen is expected to be brave enough to wait until there is no other choice before using force.
If that laws good enough for 400 million of us to have to abide by every day of our lives, then its good enough for the one of us sitting in the White House.
December 15th, 2005 at 3:25 pmLOL — Dodgeball and Giacomo.
December 15th, 2005 at 3:30 pmWe’re gonna be really busy, getting rid of turd hurlers on the one hand but continuing to sell the turds on the other. I guess as long as we keep propping up some of the turd hurlers while destroying others, our turd industry will be in fine shape (too bad the industry leaders move their headquarters offshore so as to avoid paying taxes for the turd destinkifying services provided by our gubbmint).
December 15th, 2005 at 3:46 pmthis page got messed up, the right hand menu should be at the very top…
December 15th, 2005 at 4:02 pmCome on!
Everyone seems surprised that the WMD’s story was a lie. The rest of the world knew that the invasion was for one reasons only. TO PRIVATISE THE OIL INDUSTRY!!!
Iraq had a nationalized oil program that they wanted to get there hands on. The only thing that was protected and secured on invasion was the oil infrastructure. Not the boarders, not stopping the looting, blah, blah, blah.
Wake up and realize this is the reason that every other developed country in the world didn’t support the invasion. The only reason the Brits came along for the ride was so BP could get their greasy palms in there as well.
Just wait, Iran and Venezula’s Nationalized Oil programs are next. You can already read the Tea leaves on that one.
December 15th, 2005 at 4:23 pmmighty aphrodite,
Actually, just today I learned that Bush has:
New york Times
December 15, 2005
Bush Requests Additional $1.5 Billion for New Orleans
Wow, a whole $1.5 billion!
At the same time, Bush will asked for another $100 billion for the illegal Iraq war.
Boston Globe
December 15, 2005
War funding request may hit $100 billion
See, learning new stuff about that bastard Bush all the time.
December 15th, 2005 at 4:43 pmHere we go Again, oh no something good has happened and as allways the libs are looking for something, admitt it Democracy is a good thing, taking your family to vote for the first time i n your countries history is a good thing, Holy shit Bush may know what he is doing and even if he doesn’t he does show some back bone. Unlike all you jelly libs. Ge a life no matter what you say you still lost, witch makes you a bunch of loosers, just like Mike in the booth at the republican convention when he put the L on his head and labeled himself you are all loosers and I wiish you would just shut the hell up.
December 15th, 2005 at 5:02 pmDecember 15th, 2005 at 5:05 pm
December 15th, 2005 at 5:07 pm
I hate to say this but perhaps the problems in Iraq are a blessing in disguise. If Bush and co had an easy victory in Iraq as they expected to who knows what other outlaw acts of agrassion they would have gone on to commit. At least this way thay have come to realise that invading another country is always going to be a bloody costly buisness.
December 15th, 2005 at 5:07 pmNo, George W. Bush is not a leader, not of anything. He’s an aberration, a misfit, a completely incompetent fool who has only been selected and then barely voted in office by an ignorant majority who seem to care more about the bargains of Wal*Mart and the price of gasoline than what this unseasonal fruitcake has been doing to the country, the world, and nature.
Disgusting.
December 15th, 2005 at 5:16 pmget rid of bush hes actually the biggest mass murderer the century…join the kyoto aggreement on climate change this world is not yours its on loan from your children….Put the word united back in United states cause at the moment its a right mess and i will not be buying your products for the forseeable future
December 15th, 2005 at 5:16 pmDoes Dimas/Danny/Tommy really a) think anyone cares or b) think that everyone doesn’t know they’re all the same person?
December 15th, 2005 at 5:19 pmHere we go with the sex obsessed trolls. What is the malfunction?
December 15th, 2005 at 5:22 pmGia – you are in school aren’t you? Not a dig, really, but it is obvious that you are here merely as an exercise and could care less about how this country is regressing.
December 15th, 2005 at 5:33 pmBUSH: I said I made the right decision. Knowing what I know today, I would have still made that decision.
HUME: So, if you had had this — if the weapons had been out of the equation because the intelligence did not conclude that he had them, it was still the right call?
BUSH: Absolutely.
George will go down in American history as the man responsible for saving the Western World from Islamofascism. Bill Clinton will remind every one that he once shot a missile at them.
December 15th, 2005 at 5:46 pmNO I COULD CARE LESS IF YOU KNOW I AM THE SAME PERSON, BUT I WILL SAY THIS GOD BLESS THIS COUNTRY AND GOD BLESS THIS PRESIDENT AND GOD BLESS THE COUNTRY OF IRAQ, AND GOD BLESS YOU,…..whine all you want you still lost.
December 15th, 2005 at 5:51 pmSpudgeMAN – Well add the $1.5 BILLION to the $249 Million the esteemed Governor Blanko is requesting and you have some real $$$$. Sadly, I don’t hear your OUTRAGE that 1100 people died due to the neglect of Mayor Noggin and asute Governor Blanko. If that many soldiers were killed in a three day period – oh… that’s right – **Correction** if 1100 Iraqi’s were killed in a three day period…)
Unfortunately, I don’t see NO making a large scale return. But I do hear progs whining about charter schools. (That’s what happen when you’re care more for the NEA than you do “the children”.) The sad fact is nothing Bush could do would make you happy – except resign – and that ain’t happening.
Well looks like Dems aren’t floating any new ideas for ‘06 mid-term elections -their battle plan is “Bash & Trash”. PLEASE keep trotting out Howard DEAN and Dennis KUCUNICH – where’s that rugged Al GORE been???
December 15th, 2005 at 5:55 pmI have to say, the two tapes = compelling television commercial. The DNC should start working on it. I have a couple of ideas. How about “So he would have made the decision to go to war even if there were no WMDs? Would you? (fade cut to pictures of our soldiers looking rugged and down) Would you?” Here’s another; Open with a picture of bush staring right at the screen in black and white and start to slowly go from a close up to extreme close up as a narrator asks “So he thinks he made the right decision and admits that WMDs really were never the reason we went to war… you still want him to have unchecked power?” At this moment you cut to a graphic that comes in red white and blue that says, “This year vote for checks and balances… vote democratic”.
December 15th, 2005 at 5:56 pmWHAT DO YOU CALL A PERSON WHO CAN NOT EXCEPT FACTS AND ALWAYS COMPLAINS AND IS HAPPY WHEN OUR COUNTRY IS IN TROUBLE, LIVES IT WHEN NOTHING WORKS OUT AND HOPES WE LOOSE THE WAR.
A DEMOCRATE, WHY BECAUSE THEY ONLY SURVIVE IF THIS COUNTRY IS IN A HOLE. IF ALL GOES WELL THEY ARE EXPOSED AS THE PATHETIC LOOSERS THEY ARE. lolololololololololololol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 15th, 2005 at 5:57 pmHOW ABOUT THIS,
OPEN WITH A SHOT OF AN IRAQ FAMILY IN A VOTING BOTH WAVING THIER PURPLE FINGERS, THEN FADE TO BUSH “IT WOULD HAVE MADE THE SAME DECISION” THEN HAVE THE PICTURE A A DEMOCRATE DRASTICALLY LOOKING FOR SOME THING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT…
VOTE REPUBLICAN OR JUST VOTE FOR A MAN WHO STICKS TO HIS DECISSIONS.
YOU WILL NEVER HAVE THE WHITE HOUSE AGAIN……..FADE TO A DEMOCRATE CRIING..AND A REPUBLICAN SAING i TOLD YOU SO..
hEY DON’T BE MAD I AM JUST MESSING WITH YOU ALL.
December 15th, 2005 at 6:03 pmGood God, what a lying cocksucker.
I’m back, with a savage, longish take on Bush’s “Fourth time’s The Charm” speech of last night to announce my return.
Again, what a lying cocksucker. I wish that people would stop charitably and affectionately calling him “the President.”
December 15th, 2005 at 6:10 pmi HAVE TO SAY mighty aphrodite, HIT THA NAIL SQUARE ON THE HEAD, (OF THE DUMOCRAP PARTY) JUST STICK TO THE SAME OLD GAME PLAN, YOU KNOW IF YOU ACTUALLY HAD SOME SOLUTIONS TO THE ISSUES AND MAYBE ACTUALLY HAD A PLAN PEOPLE WOULD BE COMPELLED TO VOTE FOR YOU.
BUT I LIKE IT BETTER THIS WAY..JUST KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK. YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME:)…..
December 15th, 2005 at 6:11 pm[...] Link. [...]
December 15th, 2005 at 6:12 pmi LIKE I LOVE IT I WANT SOME MORE OF IT,
THE GREAT AND KNOBLE PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, MY PRSIDENT AND YOURS, WEATHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.
COME ON…YOU KNOW YOU LOVE HIM TO……..
December 15th, 2005 at 6:20 pmTrolls – just google “army recruiter” and your zip code, get a gun and go. You’re so up for spreading freedom, have fun! By the way, Take Jenna and Barb with you.
December 15th, 2005 at 6:22 pmmighty aphrodite,
You got that right.
I don’t care if Bush had fireworks shotting out of has ass while he handed me a check for $1 million dollars. He is a crook and a moron.
December 15th, 2005 at 6:25 pmNO PROBLEM I AM A SOLDIER AND I SERVE IN THE INFANTY, I WAS IN IRAQ LAST YEAR WITH A GAURD UNIT, AND I BET Jenna and Barb WOULD SIGN UP BEFORE YOU COWARDLY ASS WOULD GO BURN A FREEKING BRA AND SMOKE SOME POT YOU FREEKING HIPPY…
THIS IS SO MUCH FUN…
December 15th, 2005 at 6:25 pm30 000 is a token number. An independent London group whose name escapes me estimated innocent deaths at atleast 100 000 more than a year ago.
December 15th, 2005 at 6:25 pmReally so “GAURD” and “INFANTY” units huh? I don’t believe you. liar
December 15th, 2005 at 6:26 pmp.s. dropping bombs on and shooting innoncent civilians including women and children is cowardly.
December 15th, 2005 at 6:26 pmTHIS IS SO MUCH FUN…
Comment by PENNY
It is. It really is. Welcome to the Troll Patrol.
December 15th, 2005 at 6:32 pmHEAR IS A LITTLE TIP FOR YOU WHILE I WAS THERE WE CONSTANTLY HEAR RUMORES, THAT ALL CHEMICAL WEAPONS WERE MOVED OUT OF THE COUNTRY WHILE WE DELT WITH THE UNITED NIMRODS UN, i BELIEVE THAT IS TRUE I HEARD IT FROM TO MANY TO DISCOUNT IT. I THINK THE BIGEST PROBLEM IS YOU ALL ACTUALLY BELEAVE THE LIBRAL PRESS, WHICH IS MOTIVATED ONLY BY HATE FOR A GOOD PRESIDENT. I THINK IN TIME WE WILL FIND THERE WEAR WEAPONS THERE, BUT EITHER WAY WE DID A GOOD THING FOR THE WHOLE WORLD. OH BY THE WAY IT WAS THE MAN YOU HATE THAT HELPED THE IRAQI PEOLE FIND THIER VOICE, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ANYONE.
December 15th, 2005 at 6:34 pm30 000 is a token number. An independent London group whose name escapes me estimated innocent deaths at atleast 100 000 more than a year ago.
Comment by apfjeofijafioj
Saddam killed that many on a good weekend.
December 15th, 2005 at 6:34 pmHEAR IS A LITTLE TIP FOR YOU WHILE I WAS THERE WE CONSTANTLY HEAR RUMORES, THAT ALL CHEMICAL WEAPONS WERE MOVED OUT OF THE COUNTRY WHILE WE DELT WITH THE UNITED NIMRODS UN, i BELIEVE THAT IS TRUE I HEARD IT FROM TO MANY TO DISCOUNT IT. I THINK THE BIGEST PROBLEM IS YOU ALL ACTUALLY BELEAVE THE LIBRAL PRESS, WHICH IS MOTIVATED ONLY BY HATE FOR A GOOD PRESIDENT. I THINK IN TIME WE WILL FIND THERE WEAR WEAPONS THERE, BUT EITHER WAY WE DID A GOOD THING FOR THE WHOLE WORLD. OH BY THE WAY IT WAS THE MAN YOU HATE THAT HELPED THE IRAQI PEOLE FIND THIER VOICE, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ANYONE.
Comment by TRUE AMERICAN
USA! USA! USA!….they hate it when I do that. :-)
December 15th, 2005 at 6:35 pmYES I AM A SOLIER ARMY NATIONAL GAURD 186TH INFANTRY UNIT OUT OF OREGON GO TO THE SITE TO SEE SOME INFORMATION ABOUT OUR UNIT, i WAS THE ALPHA COMPANY AND I WAS DEPLOYED TO IRAQ LAFOR ONE YEAR. NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY YOU CAN NEVER TAKE THAT FROM ME I WAS PART OF HELPING A NATION FIND THIER INDIVIDUAL VOICE. ONE MAN ONE VOTE…. i WIL LNOT GIVE YOU MY NAME ALTHOUGH I WOULD LOVE TO BUT I DON’T THINK I SHOULD I HAVE NOT USED MY NAME YET OK REALLY MY NAME IS CLARK KENT….LOL
December 15th, 2005 at 6:45 pmhttp://www.oregonarmyguard.com/index2.html
GOD BLESS AMERICA…LAND THAT I LOVE…STAND BESIDE HER…AND GUIDE HER…
OR I CAN BE LIKE YOU AND JUST BAD MOUTH HER…
USA USA USA USA THAT DOES FEEL GOOD……..
December 15th, 2005 at 6:48 pmTIMFROMOHIO,
I BET YOUR TO MUCH OF A COWARD TO FIGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY, I BET YOU JUST ANOTHER PERSON WHO SITS ON THE SIDE LINE AND CAN SHUT THE HELL UP. OH YA I AM LEAVING TO AFGAN IN MAY 2006 I VOLUTEERED FOR THAT DUTY. PUNK…..
GO ARMY
December 15th, 2005 at 6:52 pmI’m sure Halliburton appreciates your sincerity in securing their interests abroad, sucker.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:06 pmMAYBE I SHOULD ASK THEM FOR A JOB….apfjeofijafioj COWARD!!!!!!!!!!
December 15th, 2005 at 7:07 pm“Saddam killed that many on a good weekend.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I ”
Actually most Iraqis died at the hands of Iranians, the Americans during the first gulf war, or as a result of the sanctions imposed by BushI. So while Saddam was a bad guy, clearly this flippant response is the best that someone without a functioning brain (that would be you), or the ability to reason (once again you) can come up with.
poor pathetic little troll – were you always this ‘texas dumb’, or did you work with too many paint fumes in the gas station you work for?
December 15th, 2005 at 7:08 pmBY THE WAY YOU SHOULD PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF MICHAEL MOORES ASS IT’S HARD TO UNDERSTAND YOU WHEN YOU MUMBLE….coWARD!!!!!!
December 15th, 2005 at 7:09 pm“Saddam killed that many on a good weekend.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I â€
And my second favorite response. Well Rumsfeld encouraged that as long as he was killing commies (you know, what you always argue should be done). Republicans and fascists like you and saddam always have a habit of killing people you don’t agree with. That’s what psychotic maniacs with ‘inadequacy’ issues do. You know, like why your wife dumped you…
December 15th, 2005 at 7:10 pmthe man,
Afghanistan was fought for a good reason. Iraq was a waste of the lives of too many good soldiers. When we went to war, I don’t remember anyone saying we were going there for ‘liberation’, I remember some lies about WMDs. So you’re ok with those lies?
Clearly you don’t understand why you fight for this country…
December 15th, 2005 at 7:13 pmNICE, i AM A COLLEGE GRAD FROM UCLA 1989. AND I HAVE A MASTERS DEGREE…HOW ABOUT YOU….I AM A TECHNOLOGY DIRECTOR….HOW ABOUT YOU….I HAVE NEVER WORKED IN FAST FOOD OR A GAS STATION…HOW ABOUT YOU… I HAD MY OWNE BUSINESS WHEN I WAS 16…HOW ABOUT YOU….i WAS A MILLIONAIR BY THE TIME IWAS 22….HOW ABOUT YOU, I OWNE A 120 ACRE RANCH IN NORTHEN CALIFONIA…..HOW ABOUT YOU….i INLISTED IN THE MILITARY AND HAVE SERVED IN TWO BRANCHES FOR THREE PRESIDENTS….HOW ABOUT YOU…..i HAVE A LIFE….HOW ABOUT YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
OH YA I OWNE HALLIBURTON STOCK…HOW ABOUT YOU!!!!!
December 15th, 2005 at 7:14 pmthe man,
Jesus was a pascifist. You can feel proud of your fighting if you wish, but your condemnation of those that disagree with you is as unamerican as saddam supressing disent. Are you sure you are fighting for american values?
December 15th, 2005 at 7:14 pmDo you know what a caps lock is? Anyone who can’t type without knowing how to use one is clearly unimpressive…
And your style is suspiciously similar to MightyHermaphrodite, are you her? I bet you are. You sound like her…
December 15th, 2005 at 7:17 pmFIRST NEVER QUESTION WHY I FIGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY…i DO IT BECAUSE I LOVE THIS COUNTRY ANAD IF I CAN HELP WIN A WAR AND FREE A NATION, GREAT.. i LOVE THIS COUNTRY WITH EVERY FIBER OF MY BEING. I QUESTION IT WHEN EVER I GO TO BATTLE FOR ANYTHING. WMD’S WAS A GOOD REASON TO GO , BUT FREEDOM WAS BETTER REASON TO STAY. NEVER QUESTION WHY A SOLDIER DOES WHAT HE DOES UNLESS YOU WEAR THE SHOES OF ONE. YOU DON’T HAVE THAT RIGHT.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:18 pmI’m old money, I was educated because I wanted to be. I work because I want to. I’ve started businesses because it interested me. I work for charities, causes and concerns because I feel it’s something worthwhile to contribute. The fact you wish to join the military is your choice, but that makes you no better, no worse, nor no more of an american or a citizen than anyone else. ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL – or have you forgotten what american values are? Clearly you have…
December 15th, 2005 at 7:19 pm“WMD’S WAS A GOOD REASON TO GO , BUT FREEDOM WAS BETTER REASON TO STAY. NEVER QUESTION WHY A SOLDIER DOES WHAT HE DOES UNLESS YOU WEAR THE SHOES OF ONE. YOU DON’T HAVE THAT RIGHT.” The Man
Oh please, I have every right in the world. Your military service does not give you ’special citizenship’. Every person, and every military operation is certainly within question.
And WMDs were a terrible idea. And freedom is only a good idea if you have either the skills or personnel to accomplish it. This task is generally not the responsiblity nor within the technical capablities of regular military. Something you clearly don’t understand.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:21 pmNO I AM NOT MIGHTY AND I WRITE IN CAPS TO PISS YOU OFF…..
December 15th, 2005 at 7:21 pmNICE, i AM A COLLEGE GRAD FROM UCLA 1989. AND I HAVE A MASTERS DEGREE…HOW ABOUT YOU….I AM A TECHNOLOGY DIRECTOR….HOW ABOUT YOU….
Comment by THE MAN — December 15, 2005 @ 7:14 pm
All this education and you never learned proper punctuation or the use of caps.
If I were you, I would ask for my money back.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:21 pmYou don’t piss me off, you just look stupid. But then your writing, grammar and attitude would convey that irrespective of your caps.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:22 pmGregor,
I agree, it was obviously wasted on him. He doesn’t seem to have a basic grasp of the constitution, american values or the role of the military in american life. What a maroon.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:23 pmFUNNY, WHAT LIFE EXPERIENCE DO YOU POSSES TO MAKE ME LISTEN TO YOU. I AM 40 YEARS OLD AND FOUGHT IN SEVERAL WARS AND HELPED MORE PEOPLE THAN YOU PROBLY KNOW. YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NEVER BEEN IN A PLACE WERE FREEDOM IS IN QUESTION OR YOU WOULD NOT HAVE MADE YOUR LAST STATEMENT. YOUR JUST ANOTHER SPOILED AMERICAN SUCKING ON YOUR MOMAS TITTY HIDING FROM THE WORLD. YOU KILL ME YOUR JUST ANOTHER AMERICA BASHING LIB WITH NO CLUE OF HOW YOU POSSED THE FREEDOM TO BASH YOUR OWNE COUNTRY. YOU UNBELIEVABLE SPOILED BASTARD..
December 15th, 2005 at 7:27 pmRyan,
Look back on the thread and notice how THE MAN has the same exact style as all these other screen names: JOHNNY, FRANKY, STINKY, PINKY, PENNY, TRUE AMERICAN, i AM A SOLDIER.
Now, that’s a true troll.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:28 pmWHY SHOULD I WAIST MY TIME AND TRY TO IMPRESS YOU I ALWAYS WRITE LIKE THIS WHEN AM IN A DEMOCRATE SITE CAUSE YOU GUYS ALWAYS GO TO THE CAPS IT REALLY KILLS ME. YOU JUST PROVED IT DOES BOTHER YOU AND THAT IS WHY I DO IT.
By the way my grammer is excellent when needed.
You just do not warrent the effort..
December 15th, 2005 at 7:31 pmGregor,
A truly stupid and lying troll. They have no credibility, so the chance that this retard is anything but a snotty little nerd in silicon valley who works sys admin is unlikely…
December 15th, 2005 at 7:31 pm“WHY SHOULD I WAIST MY TIME AND TRY TO IMPRESS YOU” TheMoron
That’s a great question, and yet that’s what you’ve tried to do this entire thread…
That’s called schizophrenic, in case you were interested in the correct terminology to ask a good therapist about.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:32 pmI use different names cause it also pisses you off. :-)
December 15th, 2005 at 7:32 pmBy the way my grammer is excellent when needed.
You just do not warrent the effort..
Comment by THE MAN — December 15, 2005 @ 7:31 pm
Too bad your spelling remains just as bad…
December 15th, 2005 at 7:34 pmI use different names cause it also pisses you off. :-)
Comment by THE MAN from cali — December 15, 2005 @ 7:32 pm
You don’t piss anyone off… you just come across as borderline illiterate. ;-)
December 15th, 2005 at 7:35 pm“YOU JUST PROVED IT DOES BOTHER YOU AND THAT IS WHY I DO IT.” TheMoron
Not really, if you want to look even more stupid, that’s your choice…
You worked so hard to supply your ‘credentials’ in a very futile attempt to impress, so it’s just ironic you would use caps in a way that completely deflates and discredits that effort.
That’s schizophrenia – but that’s a common illness among republicans. Maybe it’s post traumatic stress, it would explain your detachment from reality. That’s a common mental illness for veterans – and it would explain why your politics and values are so radical, and are so fascist.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:35 pmGregor,
Clearly he/she crossed the border ages ago…
December 15th, 2005 at 7:35 pmWell, I had a great time getting a rise out of you, but it has become more and more easy as the democratic party slides into oblivian.
have a great day, and I promise in spite of cowards like you, there will always be people like me to to the line for you.
God bless you all.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:36 pm#160 – “Jesus was a pascifist.” – RyANNe
December 15th, 2005 at 7:36 pm*****Another tidbit of theological insight from that well-known universal theologian, RyANNE. Jesus said,”Blessed are the peacemakers,” not “Blessed are the pacifists.” And after you launch into the “turn the other cheek” theme – look up the passage re: “Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.”
He should post as “Damn right, I’m a racist.”
But he’s too much of a coward.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:39 pm#141 – “He’s a crook and a moron”. – SpudgeMAN
December 15th, 2005 at 7:42 pm****Spudge, you’re confusing a man who has strong convictions with a former President who should have been convicted. An understandable mistake on your part.
I really have to go, but i have two kids that are my owne and I have a african American child and and i adopted and Indian child i have four great kids.
watch your mouth.
you don’t know well enouph to pull that kind of judgement call ass hole
December 15th, 2005 at 7:43 pm#163 – “I’m old money, I was educated because I wanted to be. I work because I want to.” – RyANNE-
December 15th, 2005 at 7:48 pm***** No, RyANNe, you sound like a poser….people with real “old money” NEVER talk about it – unless they’re lacking in the “class” department – THAT explains it!!!
I really have to go, but i have two kids that are my owne and I have a african American child and and i adopted and Indian child i have four great kids.
watch your mouth.
you don’t know well enouph to pull that kind of judgement call ass hole
Comment by just me — December 15, 2005 @ 7:43 pm
If this is THE MAN, I am going to repeat myself: All that education and you couldn’t manage to pick up rules for decent spelling, punctuation, and use of capitals.
I have to say -I like your “I am not a racist, my best friend is black” routine.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:53 pmBubble boys bubble just busted.
December 15th, 2005 at 8:02 pmImpeach Bubble Boy and his torture loving butt buddy!
Bubble boy also admits that he is soley responsible for invading Iraq.
Guess the members of Congress that voted for it (based on WMD lies) are off the hook.
Can’t blame the dems, Bubble boy acknowledges full responsibility for the slaughter of women and children.
Bubble boy takes responsibility for the torture of thousands of innocent arabs.
Bubble boy admits he is soley responsible for the death of thousands of Iraqi’s.
Bubble boy takes sole responsibility for the death of over 2000 American soldiers.
Bubble boy takes sole responsibility for thousands of mangled American soldiers.
Bubble boy takes sole responsibility for wasting billions of our tax dollars.
December 15th, 2005 at 8:12 pmBubble boy aka George W. Bush must be impeached.
Bubble boy aka George W. Bush must be charged with war crimes and treason.
Did UCLA teach you that the Caps Lock key is only about 3/16th of an inch from where your pinky finger rests on the “A” key. You might want to depress it once to shut off you capital letters. Otherwise nobdy will give a crap wht you write.
“NICE, i AM A COLLEGE GRAD FROM UCLA 1989.”
Besides the “N” in nice and the UCLA acronym, “I” is the only other letter that should be capitalized in your post.
“AND I HAVE A MASTERS DEGREE…”
You are not supposed to start a sentence with “and.” You also have too many periods.
“HOW ABOUT YOU….”
This should end with a question mark. You can find that near the right hand shift key.
“I AM A TECHNOLOGY DIRECTOR….”
Since I am in the technology industry, I would like to know what a “technology director” is.
“HOW ABOUT YOU….”
Question mark, not three periods.
“I HAVE NEVER WORKED IN FAST FOOD OR A GAS STATION…”
Good for you. Once again, too many periods.
“HOW ABOUT YOU…”
Is your question mark key broken?
“I HAD MY OWNE BUSINESS WHEN I WAS 16…”
Whoopie. Once again, too many periods.
“HOW ABOUT YOU….”
I am really starting to think your question mark key is broken.
i WAS A MILLIONAIR BY THE TIME IWAS 22….
The I should be capitalized and too many periods again.
“HOW ABOUT YOU, I OWNE A 120 ACRE RANCH IN NORTHEN CALIFONIA…..”
I question in the middle of a statement. Interesting grammar usage.
“HOW ABOUT YOU….
Dude, get a new key board, so you can start using your question mark key.
“i INLISTED IN THE MILITARY AND HAVE SERVED IN TWO BRANCHES FOR THREE PRESIDENTS….”
Any real military person would never change branches. Gonna need to check out your shift key also or get some remeadial english classes.
“HOW ABOUT YOU…..”
No question mark?
“i HAVE A LIFE….”
Whoopi. You really need to capitalize the letter I when refering to yourself.
“HOW ABOUT YOU!!!!!!!!!!!”
Well, at least you used a different punctuation mark, but it is still the wrong one.
“OH YA I OWNE HALLIBURTON STOCK…HOW ABOUT YOU!!!!!”
That should be “yeah” and “own” and you should have used a question mark here also.
For a college graduate with a masters degree, you sure have a terrible understanding of spelling and grammar.
December 15th, 2005 at 8:14 pmALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL – or have you forgotten what american values are? Clearly you have…
Comment by Ryan Neat —
Jefferson never met you sweet cheeks.
December 15th, 2005 at 8:24 pmHey Ryan…there’s an old name for your problem. No, I don’t mean the homosexual thing, I mean the way you ARE. Our forefathers called it Moral Insanity. Left Wingers pretty much stayed in the closet with the homos in those days and the condition was I suppose fairly rare. Now we call you a sociopath. It’s amazing how much you and Bill Clinton have in common:
Glibness/Superficial Charm
Language can be used without effort by them to confuse and convince their audience. Captivating storytellers that exude self-confidence, they can spin a web that intrigues others. Since they are persuasive, they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or emotionally.
Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They dominate and humiliate their victims.
Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as “their right.” Craves adulation and attendance. Must be the center of attention with their own fantasies as the “spokesman for God,” “enlightened,” “leader of humankind,” etc. Creates an us-versus-them mentality
Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and able to pass lie detector tests.
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion, it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
Incapacity for Love
While they talk about “God’s love” they are unable to give or receive it. Since they do not believe in the genuineness of their followers’ love, they are very harsh in testing it from their devotees and expect them to feel guilt for their failings. Expects unconditional surrender.
Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge, yet testing the beliefs of their followers with bizarre rules, punishments and behaviors. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal.
Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others’ feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them. Their skills are used to exploit, abuse and exert power. Since the follower cannot believe their leader would callously hurt them, they rationalize the behavior as necessary for their (or the group’s) own “good” and deny the abuse. When devotees become aware of the exploitation it feels like a “spiritual rape” to them.
Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others. The followers only see them as near perfect.
Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet “gets by” by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others’ lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blame their followers or others outside their group. Blame reinforces passivity and obedience and produces guilt, shame, terror and conformity in the followers.
Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Totalist leaders frequently practice promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts. This is usually kept hidden from all but the inner circle. Stringent sexual control of their followers, such as forced breakups and divorces, removal of children from parents, rules for dating, etc.
Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future. Many groups claim as their goal world-domination or other utopian promises. Great contrast between the leader’s opulent lifestyle and the followers’ impoverishment. Support by gifts and donations from the followers who are pressured to give through fear and guilt. Highly sensitive to their own pain and health.
Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
December 15th, 2005 at 8:30 pmChanges their image and that of the group as needed to avoid prosecution and to increase income and to recruit a range of members. Is able to adapt or relocate as needed to preserve the group. Can resurface later with a new name, a new front group and a new twist on the scam.
“Jefferson never met you sweet cheeks.”
Dude, I am serious. That comment is about as gay as it gets. Just stop. There are plenty of other ways to put people down and name call without making yourself look gay.
December 15th, 2005 at 8:31 pmSusan – your “Happy Turkey Day” greeting on your website (See – Events) is EXACTLY what I would expect from you. I am beginning to understand some of your pre-occupations.
December 15th, 2005 at 8:37 pmNow we call you a sociopath. It’s amazing how much you and Bill Clinton have in common:
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — December 15, 2005 @ 8:30 pm
Actually, I-RIGHT-I, several of those traits describe you better than they do Ryan. Specially the Incapacity for Love (where’s your wife?), Need for Stimulation (what are you doing here?), Grandiose Sense of Self (what’s with the “I am so good looking” comments?) and Callousness/Lack of Empathy (what’s with your racial epithets and poor people bashing?)
How quickly you forgot the advice I gave you in the other thread: When trying to undermine your opponent’s position, better make sure not to torpedo yourself in the process.
Plus, let’s not forget you have already been diagnosed by a mental health professional:
I-RIGHT-I
I’m a Psychologist.
Only guy who can’t get laid degrades women.
Might wanna find a good blow up doll. That is, if she’ll have you!
Comment by kiss me kate — December 10, 2005 @ 11:04 am
Laura Bush’s War on Christmas
December 15th, 2005 at 8:46 pmThat “other thread” would be “Celebrate Christmas By Raising Minimum Wage”
December 15th, 2005 at 8:48 pmThanks hermaphrodite, you like Steve? The thing between his legs is a fake.
I hope you listened to the show too. Good stuff, some might even call it anti christmas or anti bush.
Sorry you didn’t make the thinkprogress segment. You were awol for awhile. Keep posting so my many listeners abroad can get your perspective on things.
Thanks for the visit.
December 15th, 2005 at 8:52 pmMightyHermaphrodite,
Are you you proud of your family that ‘cut and run’ from europe, instead of standing and fighting? Are they heroes for doing that, or cowards? Just curious…
December 15th, 2005 at 8:54 pmMizzWrong, what a funny posting you put up to describe yourself! Everything except the ‘charming’ part, clearly that’s not you. The rest sounds very similar to your pathology! Wow, where did you find that, did your doctor give that to you? Is that why you hate the APA? Because whoever wrote this surely knows your complex!
December 15th, 2005 at 8:55 pmMightyHermaphrodite,
Susan was thinking of you, when she greeted the ‘turkeys’, because you’re one fat stupid plucked bird!
December 15th, 2005 at 8:56 pmSusan – Visiting your site is like a trip to the dentist – it’s good for a laugh!!!!
December 15th, 2005 at 8:57 pmDon’t forget to view this goodie hermy.
http://www.cafepress.com/perfect_credit
December 15th, 2005 at 9:00 pmMightyHermaphrodite – listening to your crap is like a trip to the dentist – it’s only good for a laugh if you’re high!!!!
December 15th, 2005 at 9:20 pmOops, doubled
December 15th, 2005 at 9:46 pmIf the Germans would’t like Bush who is doing all that bad things, how will Americans feel if Germany (if it was stronger than the USA)occupied your country, put Bush in jail and make lot of damage with fighting his army to help you to establish real democracy?
December 15th, 2005 at 10:20 pmSince Clinton decreased the size of our military I am so proud the since the Reblibicans have had complete contol that they increased it back to were it was before that no good did…what did Rummy do?? add 100,000 more troops,,, or 200,000 or all the way back to the cold war level…like now we have over two million..Guess what crap for brains NADA. You pin heads bitch about this for 8 years, now don’t give a S$%t. Thin about how stupid you are.
December 15th, 2005 at 10:51 pmYou know, for all the trolls attacking the people against Bush here, I haven’t read one in defense of Bush’s statements. Funny. Seems you trolls have more important priorities than defending your position. Perhaps because you know you can’t? Just a thought.
December 16th, 2005 at 12:30 amUnfortunately, all Americans (whether for or against the admin) are also culpable. We, as a nation, have this blood on our hands.
Hell no! I’m not culpable, and I don’t have blood on my hands. I never voted for Bush, and I opposed the war back when it no more than Bush’s erection.
I am likewise not repsonsible for slavery or the eradication of the American Indian. I didn’t kill Jesus either.
I’ll own up to what I’ve done. I take zero responsibility for actions taken against my will by people I never entrusted to act on my behalf.
December 16th, 2005 at 1:47 amOK Ladies, Let me lay this out here so you fuqking morons can(at the very least)have a few undeniable facts.
1. Desert Storm…We went in and thumped that little pecker…very well…and in short order. At the close of that engagement an article of surender was never signed, but rather a “conditional cease fire”, and those conditions included…the dismantling of all scuds(short range), flachettes(long range), high yeild war heads, and any bio/chem units. Then he finds out the Kurds helped us, so he whips out the old chemical units and leveled an entire Kurdish village with those weapons he didn’t have!!!!!!!
2.After that little stunt, the U.N. said “Well….you’re a right bastard, hand’em over or we’ll sanction youuuuu. He said no!
3. Bodda-Bing, he’s sanctioned. Over the next ten years, no less than fourteen resolutions were filed by the U.N.. And during good ol’ Billy-Boy’s entire term in office, neither him…nor anyone at the U.N. did diddley-dick about it. Why-You may ask?? come on, say it with me kids……..”Oil For Foooooood”. Gooooood. Give yourselves a gold star.
4.Then we get 9-11. Washington collectively understands that we needed to take a good loooong look at ALL of our threats. So we did. We called up all of our buddies in the U.N. and said “Fellas, step up, we need to talk about any info ya’ll might have on some of the major players and key individuals of the region so we can dial in the best strategy.
(info on the suject of saddam given to us)
A. French Intel./Cock Churac:WeeWee, according to our sources Saddam’s got a little of this, a few of these, we suspect maybe some of those, yada-yada-yada.
B. Gay’hard Scroddum: Well we’ve learned he’s got some of these, and this, and one or two other little projects rumored to be in the works.
C.ItaliaIntel: Ditto.
D. Great Brittan: Ditto.
E. Rushin’Pootin’: Ditto.
F. Spain: Ditto.
G. U.S.(here’s where it gets good): For the years 1997,1998 and 1999 by the following members of the previous administration: Bill Clinton – We know he has them beyond the shadow of a doubt, and is seeking even more and most likely atomic as well!!…Al Gore – Ditto to what my boss said, plus he can not be allowed to develop further programs, he is a real and clear danger to our European allies as well as us. Hillary Clinton – Ditto. Sandy Burger – Ditto. – Madelyn Ball-bright – We’ve got to stop that sum-bitch before he gets any further. And lets not forget the 8,count them…8 “Cruise Missles” Billy-Bob launched into Iraq to try and strike at Saddams “WMD’s” ,then bungled the job by hitting the wrong target and wound up taking out one of those “dangerous” FRIGGIN’ ASPRIN FACTORYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Two and three years before Bush was anywhere near Washington and was probably in Texas cleaning hosesh1t of the bottom of his boots, but yet HE lied!?
H. The President gave that fart-blossom fourteen, let me repeat that…..FOURTEEN/14 months to “put up” or “Shut up” and hand over weapons, and nobody gets hurt.
I. We went in to Desert Storm with 31 coalition alies. We went in to Iraqi Freedom with 33. Countries like…the Aussies, the Dutch, the WOPs, South Korea, Japan, get this……Guatamala…no sh1t.
J. Who said they wouldn’t help, hmmmm,……..uhh France,Germany,and Russia. Why you may ask? see #3.
Russia’s flat ass broke and couldn’t afford it if they wanted to, the Frogs and Krauts are not much better off because of their double digit un-employment, so how’d they try to remedy that problem???…..first–consolidate their currency…EURO’s(`cause the francs and marks were runnin’dangerously close to the peso!!and that would suck) second– undertable sales of millitary hardware in exchange for petroleum vouchers form…….huuuuu…..dun-dun-duuuuuun Iraq!!!! Congradulations. France and Germany didn’t want us going in and putting salt on that slug because he still owed them a butt-load of money. And I’m talkin’`bout an Oprah sized butt!!! Keep in mind, they never said “don’t” go in, they said they weren’t going in with us. Big difference kids. The “Dimm’s” and “Dolts” of this country have tried to say….”Bush lied” He over inflated the threats”"blah blah blah” and yet curiously…..the French and Germ’s have never said that they did not give us the same Intel. as everyone else, nor have they tried to say that the Democrats are right, Bush was lying.Hmmmm I wonder why.
Oh, a few last notes: WMD’s were not the only issue, nor were they the biggest. The prospectus for war the President presented the house and senate was 92 pages long…out of several hundred of those Senators and Congressmen….only 6 of them read more than the first 5 pages….by their own admission. That includes Kerry,Kennedy,Reid,Durbin………
December 16th, 2005 at 2:03 amZzzzzzzzz…
Hahaha…
This is the best you can do?
I think there should be a moveon.org2 for liberals to MOVE ON from this Iraq debate…
The Saddam situation was very similar to the Al Qaeda situation pre 9/11 (We let them take weaselly pot shots at us until it was too late to stop thousands of innocent US citizens from being murdered)
But Bush went after Saddam because he felt “The Butcher of Baghdad” was a threat the same way Al Qaeda was a threat to avoid another 9/11. I didn’t agree with all of the reasoning, but the Iraq War has happend and the politicians should be focusing on how to give it the best ending…Not catering to the crazy far left “What would Fidel Castro want America to do?” crowd.
Why aren’t the global war protestors in Iraq trying to stop the election if they’re serious about their “Not In Our Name” and “Send The Troops Home Now” bumpersticker slogans?
MOVE ON!
Let’s give a chance to the Iraqis who are risking their lives for a chance at freedom instead of throwing in the towel and allowing a civil war or even worse to occur.
December 16th, 2005 at 2:05 amI may be just a crazy hippie, but even if there were weapons of mass destruction, is the way to “rebuild” a Iraq through more violence and chaos and complete disrespect for human dignity? It is the fact that the middle east has historically been plagued by those same things that has created an environment hospitable to terrorism. The only way to stop the cycle here is to STOP the unecessary violence. We do not need a leader that is going to drive us into hell in the name of pride.
December 16th, 2005 at 2:15 amWhat Bush did was wrong I dont take a “side” on this im not procon, or demo or liberal.. Im opinionated and id like to think fairly intelligent (and i dont use proper grammar its faster to type). If you just open your eyes, and see a lie for what it is a lie than Bush is guilty without question of pulling one over on the American public. Neither am I religious again i use my own moral compass to determine whats right and for me killing isnt right and if you CHOOSE to be religious war goes against the very backbone the Bible is based around. So while Bush is a God fearin’ man… he summarily sends 2500+ American soldiers to their death and cuts down 30,000 people both deserving and not deserving like a heartless corporation would clear cut a forest. As for that elitest supersoldier.. get off your high horse being in the military means you chose a path other chose not to take. That makes you no better or worse than the rest of us. You fight for freedom and i can accept that but when that freedom is fought for under false pretense, when the very people whose freedom your fighting for are swindled by the man who they are to trust most its time to put down your gun, and raise your fist.
December 16th, 2005 at 2:44 amAs an after thought I also find it amazingly hypocritical that a man who can oppose gay marriage on the basis that it goes against the precepts of the bible can justify the death of so many people. Seem a bit off base to anyone else or am i wrong?
December 16th, 2005 at 2:51 am“But make no mistake — as I said earlier — we have high confidence that they have weapons of mass destruction. That is what this war was about and it is about. And we have high confidence it will be found.”
December 16th, 2005 at 3:04 am-Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary Press Briefing 4/10/2003
hey moore,
December 16th, 2005 at 3:19 amdidn’t u own stock in Haliburton from 1999-2000! Enough said. PS- drop 100 pounds
The really sad part of all this is that not enough Americans have the gumption to demand that Bush and his Close friends be held accountable–so whose the real Moron.
December 16th, 2005 at 4:06 am#208 Cody
All the dirty, clever (for a 2nd. Grader) nicknames and spelling errors were so very entertaining. Thank you so much.
You sound enthused about the war, go do us all a favor and enlist.
December 16th, 2005 at 4:57 amSOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS A THIRD POLITICAL PARTY?? WHY DO AMERICANS INSIST ON LIMITING THEIR OPTIONS BETWEEN REPUBLICAN AND REPUBLICAN LIGHT?
December 16th, 2005 at 6:41 amFunny how I-RIGHT-I tries to look like he’s several Neocons at once by using different screen names, but then forgets that all of his multiple personalities have the caps lock on… and that they all misspell the same words. Demo’crate’?
We know you are also Pinky, Franky,The Man,i am solder, etc.
December 16th, 2005 at 7:43 amDate’s not wrong on the quote by the Prez. It only gives you an idea of how long he’s been lying to us. We went to war based on lies in 2003. Thank God my husband is coming home.
December 16th, 2005 at 7:57 amPresident Bush,
December 16th, 2005 at 8:36 amDo yourself a favor and stop answering questions that you know you cant understand. you look like a moron and my 5 year old sister can probably answer them better than you by smearing her shit on a piece of paper! YOU MORON, lets snort some more coke together! BRAD HAMBLIN IS THE MAN!
The world must boycott all American goods even the Americans must boycott them too…..once your broke you will start again with fresh and sensible ideas
December 16th, 2005 at 9:00 amFunny how I-RIGHT-I tries to look like he’s several Neocons at once by using different screen names, but then forgets that all of his multiple personalities have the caps lock on… and that they all misspell the same words. Demo’crate’?
We know you are also Pinky, Franky,The Man,i am solder, etc.
Comment by unbelievable
Nope. I don’t like sock puppets. I’ll leave that to you and the other losers who think they’re getting away with something. I see no benefit of being witty, mean as hell and smarter than everyone else then sharing the glory of it with a jumble of stupid screen names. Your mileage may vary.
December 16th, 2005 at 9:01 amAmerica is already skint ..thats why they have to steal oil and use old technologies that are not kyoto friendly
December 16th, 2005 at 9:03 amOh, a few last notes: WMD’s were not the only issue, nor were they the biggest. The prospectus for war the President presented the house and senate was 92 pages long…out of several hundred of those Senators and Congressmen….only 6 of them read more than the first 5 pages….by their own admission. That includes Kerry,Kennedy,Reid,Durbin………
Comment by Cody
Nice recap and excellent post.I read it. One of less than six on this site. The Filthy Left has a lot of trouble concentrating.
Dang, no misspelled words, run on sentences or incomplete thoughts either. You must be used to using your head for something other than a hat rack. Welcome to the Troll Patrol.
December 16th, 2005 at 9:10 amHe has since admitted that the intelligence was wrong! Get over it! He even took responsibility for it!
The WMDs were just one reason that he decided to go to war. He also wanted to get ride of a fascist dictator, who paid $25,000 to the families of suicide bombers, killed 100’s of thousands of innocent civilians (his own people mind you). Saddam has used WMDs on his own people before as well. Bush also, wanted to set up a democrative government to be in allie in the war against terror, he has said this from the start.
Granted, he put A LOT of emphasis on the WMD thing, and turned out to blow up in his face. But it wasnt the only reason we went in there. Maybe if France and other allies didnt two time us when they said they would support the war and then back out, we would be out of there by now. But, they were getting their pocket lined by Saddam in the Oil for Food scandle.
I would also like to give kudos to michael moore, eventhough i am sure he could careless what a conservative like me thinks. I checked out his website and was pleasently surprised that he even mentioned the successful vote in iraq yesterday.
December 16th, 2005 at 9:30 amBush used Intelligence gathered from a variety of a sources including members outside this country; that all added up to Saddam having WMDs. Just about everyone in the world agreed with that assessment, including Democrats.
It’s not a lie if you belive it to be true. You need to prove that Bush knew there were no WMDs, but still told the people there were as an excuse to go to war.
A lie: is a statement made by someone who believes or suspects it to be false, in the expectation that the hearers may believe it
a mistake: An unintentional error or misunderstanding, or a wrong action attributable to bad judgment or ignorance or inattention
I hate to do this..but…Clinton lied about getting a BJ, Bush made a mistake about the WMDs.
It is terrible for the loss of 2,000 Americans, and terrible for the loss of 30,000 iraqis..but this is over 2-3 yeras…I’m not makig light of their loss, but if oyu want go look up the battle of Antietam if you want to talk about Death and destruction. I don’t want to see anyone die, and neither does the President.
December 16th, 2005 at 9:33 amSaddam Hussein, his sons, and the Baathist regime were Iraq’s WMD’s.
If Iraq were a democracy that was respectful of its citizens and its neighbors prior to the 2003 invasion, the US never would have felt the need to implement regime change, even in a post-9/11 world.
The same situation is playing out currently in Iran. If Iran was a democratic nation that respected its neighbors — specifically, Israel — the international community wouldn’t be so adamant about denying them access to nuclear weapons.
As for Iraq’s stockpiles of bio/chem weapons — Until Syria is gone over with a fine tooth comb in a post-Assad era, any conclusion as to what happened with Saddam’s WMD would be premature.
December 16th, 2005 at 10:22 amOf course George would say “absolutely” to the question that “it was still the right call” if he knew back then what he knows “today”. That’s because what he knows today he knew back then.
December 16th, 2005 at 10:23 am
December 16th, 2005 at 10:29 amYou know, for all the trolls attacking the people against Bush here, I haven’t read one in defense of Bush’s statements. Funny. Seems you trolls have more important priorities than defending your position. Perhaps because you know you can’t? Just a thought.
Comment by Justin Abrams
Oh yes, I have and brilliantly too I might add. You have to sift through the Leftist muck to find my gems, that’s the problem. But let me help one more time.
I knew from the very get go that WMD’s were not the biggest factor in deposing Saddam. It was and always has been the plan to totally disrupt the status quo in the Middle East. Put the Islamist thugs and terrorists on notice that there’s a new marshal in town. The plan has worked perfectly. Even Iran is playing along. They are begging to be bombed, and guess who is right there in the neighborhood to accommodate them? It’s going to happen too, with or without the UN’s blessing. I suggest you sign up now and avoid the rush to be a human shield. USA! USA! USA!
December 16th, 2005 at 10:39 amDear Trolls,
December 16th, 2005 at 10:41 amIs it your mission in life to lurk on these sites and demonize and denigrate everyone inorder to bring down the level of general discussion to the gutter and accomplish nothing?
Effectively the meaningful life of the thread was over when Michael Moore was invoked a bit back. I believe it has become a corrolary to Godwin’s Law on any left/liberal/Democratic site. The discussion is over, thank you! I just don’t get your “Yeah Team” mentality in light of everything that should be so obvious about this administration who really don’t give a shit about you. You consistently vote against your own interests. I would be curious to know just what your average annual income was and what part of the country you come from? Are you “social Darwinists”? Is that why you put you fingers in your ears and go LALALALA…? You’ve allowed yourselves to be hoodwinked by the rhethoric of “God, guns and gays” while nothing of really importance gets accomplished by our broken system. Before the denigration starts, just let me say that I’m thoughly disgusted with all politicians in general. Basically I think you have to have a serious mental disorder now to become one. There are no statesmen. Basically we’re letting the loonies run the asylum. But you just keep on going “RAH RAH”. GO TEAM!!! And the fact that this whole country has become “Lord of the Flies” is the most pathetic thing of all. Stop being so Christoamerocentric and get a life!
Let the flaming begin!
Giacomo,
You’re confused. The vitriol is less about Bush and more about the fact that the current leadership is in the process of destroying the country that we love and hope to raise our children in….
Comment by BJ
Bullshit. It’s about Bush and how he’s managed to kick every left wing ass that shows up. There is an insane hatred for Bush. We call it BDS, Bush Derangement Syndrome…here’s an example….
She’s American. I’ll call her Emma. Today’s the day, the papers are reporting, Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, Lewis “Scooter” Libby, is to be arrested for his part in disclosing the identity of the CIA agent Valerie Plame.
Emma is laughing to herself because she’s no fan of the Bush administration. I compliment her on laughing about politics rather than something more solipsistic. She thanks me and says goodbye.
Half an hour later, Emma has a panic attack. She rushes frantically around Liverpool Street trying to find us. Finally she gets hold of us on the phone via the Guardian.
“You can’t use my photograph!” she yells.
“Why not?” I ask.
“Because if the White House reads what I’ve said to you, they might punish me with an IRS [the US tax agency] audit.”
There is a silence.
“Are you connected to the White House or politics?” I ask.
“No,” she says, “I’m involved in the film business.”
“Then you’ll be fine,” I say.
“I’m serious,” she says. “They’re vicious. I heard they audited Sean Penn as a punishment after he went on a peace mission to Iraq before the war.”
“But surely,” I say, “they aren’t going to go to all that effort of tracking you down to punish you just because you laughed to yourself about Lewis Libby?”
“They might,” she says.
“We’ll give you a false name,” I say.
“They’ll see my photograph,” she says…..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,1662145,00.html
You just can’t make shit like this up…..man, I really love you guys.
December 16th, 2005 at 10:44 am#226–HA-HA, Bush has “taken responsibility”. What the heck does that mean? Will he face consequences that go along with “taking responsibility”? Has he ever?
I take responsibility for making it snow here today. There, I said it. Now, what are you going to do about it?
December 16th, 2005 at 10:50 amDear Trolls,
Is it your mission in life to lurk on these sites and demonize and denigrate everyone inorder to bring down the level of general discussion to the gutter and accomplish nothing?
Comment by geotrox
You must be new here. I for one have raised the bar. I’m still waiting for one of you Leftist Losers to make the jump. It’s not happening. I blame it on your stupid parents and public education.
December 16th, 2005 at 10:50 amWhat a bunch of pinheads. It’s good to know you all gather as a group. It happened. Get over it.
Bush had every right to invade Iraq without the WMD question as Saddam continuously broke the terms of surrender from the 1st war, so who cares.
You would think that at some point you lefties would show some happiness in the fact that 28 million people that used to be under a ruthless dictator are free. What about the increase in womens rights in Iraq as well.
Let me give you a hint and see if you f-wads can figure it out the real problem.
You guys have got nothing.
If someone like George W Bush can beat whoever you throw at him, at you had 4 years to find someone, you’ve got nothing. Trumping up some he lied BS is not going to the do job for you in the next election either because anyone with any smarts can do a little research and determine that everyone, Russia, Britain, the UN, all thought Iraq had WMDs. Instead of some cheap slogan, why don’t you try to come up with some original ideas and even organize a little bit.
Your party is currently devoid of ideas and frankly the ones that you have suck. People didn’t necessarily vote for George Bush in the last election. Rather, they voted against you. While your leaders continue to be Pelosi, Kennedy, Dean and your moderators Franken, Moore, etc you don’t have a chance.
So thanks for not learning your lessons after the first time that Bush was elected. Keep up the good work by lambasting and defacing others. The next election will prove to be the same.
You’ve got nothing.
December 16th, 2005 at 11:15 amSo why didn’t Chimpy’s old man do the job right the first time? Seems to me he thought going in after his old buddy Saddam was a bad idea at the time…
December 16th, 2005 at 11:18 amDear I-RIGHT-I,
December 16th, 2005 at 11:25 amYes, I am new here and you are making my point exactly. Did you even read my entire post? You call people “Leftist Losers” and immediately alienate them to anything of value you might have to say. Can you even make a credible augument as to why I should make the jump? To what? So I’m assuming you had a private education? That’s fine and congratulations! Many are not so fortunate has you may have been. The public school system for all it’s problems, by and large, has turned out a pretty decent group of people who have gone on to go to college, enter a trade, work in government, etc. and just basically man our workforce. And a lot of those problems can be traced back to lack of funding and lack of respect from the legislatures and electorate for a difficult job, leading to poor facilities, outdated texts, overcrowded classrooms, etc. Also I applaud our teachers in the public school system for doing what they can with what they’ve been given. They strike me as people who mostly give a damn about the kids! It’s not a job I envy and one I think gets way too little respect, as reflected in their salaries vs. workload/crap them receive. I interpret your comments as elitist with regards to the public education system. You just callously write off a large segment of our populace as being generationally “stupid” because they may not have had all the means you may have had at your disposal. What’s your solution? Do you have one? Or are you just cheerleading?
Guess you all feell Pres Bush is a crook and criminal-he doesn’t do everything alone. I really feel all of you should have been in those 2 towers so we can move on with our lives, get rid of the threat! For pete’s sake they came over here, so were supposed to sit around and hug trees? Get Real get a life, get some Bal**. I gues it would be better for all of us to be slaughtered like cattle that to raise a gun against our enemies. If anybody who think that these people are not our enemies-let me tell you what! Why don’t you take you tea drinking, tree hugging, peace belching a** over there and make nice with the villagers then?!?!?! Guess not too scared-afraid they’ll blow you too pieces?1 Your right! they hate Americans, they hate us! War isn’t pretyy! It isn’t a nice peace loving fest! There unfortunatley is no way around it. If you don’t like what he’s don’t why don’t you stop your bit**ing and run for president yourself. LEt everybody else here you whine, and they’ll do the same thign as me LAUGH!!!
December 16th, 2005 at 11:28 amGood LUCK!!! Try to find the Devil in something else than the people fighting for us. It’s not about money- the whole idea…of course peope are gonna line their pockets, but it’s not who you think…
Where were the dudes who crashed the planes into the towers from?
Where is Osama?
I’d love it if “our” government would have gone after those b@st@rds, rather than expending thousands of lives and multi-billions of dollars to make Halliburton even richer in Iraq.
December 16th, 2005 at 11:33 amSo “Clueless George” has admitted that there were no WMD and it was because of bad intelligence, but he still would have gone into Iraq anyway. Hmmm….it seems to me that the more accurate statement would be that he KNEW at the time that there were no WMD but he still wanted to go into Iraq anyway. Why? To get even with Saddam for turning daddy into a one-term prez? Who knows? The fact is that he LIED…
As for the war, the administration didn’t go in with a plan to win the war, only to win the initial battle; we didn’t secure and protect areas where large amounts of weapons/explosives were being stored and subsequently stolen and because of these and many other errors on the part of the ‘leadership/administration’ have lost over 2,000 American troops with tens of thousands more in harms way every day. Not to mention those who have returned with disabilites both physical and mental that will affect not only the returning soldiers lives but the lives of family and friends. But agin it goes back to the rason that we are in Iraq in the first place…because of a lie.
So our ‘president’ lied to congress, and lied to the American people, and his lies have cost thousands of lives, and affected tens of thousands more. But thank god that ole’ George wasn’t getting a BJ in the oval office ! Now that would be news right ?
I guess we don’t impeach for deciet on a large or gloabl scale that involves the death of innocents….we save that for getting your knob polished….
December 16th, 2005 at 11:50 am#235 (Dodgeball)…. Are you as dumb as you sounds, or are you just joking? Taking responsibility for the snow. HAHA…
Do you really think that the he should be punished that the intel was wrong? Was it him gathering it all? Is it his fault, that France, Germany, Russia, and the UN came up with the same intel?
He took responsibility, like a good leader does, for the fact that the country he leads, received intel that turned out to be false. I won’t even get into the possibility that WMDs could have been sent to Syria, in the year build up before the war. Kerry, Kennedy, Dean, Pelosi, Reid…. etc etc etc. all came to the same conclusion. And don’t you dare say that they didnt receive all of it… liberals have not provided a single shred of proof that info was held back, only speculation and rhetoric.
And besides, would you want to wait for Saddam to develope WMDs, before we attack where the lives of US civilians are at risk, on our own soil? Remember 9/11??? That wasnt very fun. Even Clinton had the right idea, the whole ambiguous third route speech. Unfortunatly, he only did a couple of air strikes that equalled little or not results. Bush didn’t play politics when it came to the war… he did what was and is RIGHT.
25 Million iraqis no longer live under and evil dictator; Women now have more rights, their economy is booming, they are voting, they no longer support terrorism. Money from Syria and other terrorist supporting countries have almost completely stopped. All because the president had the back bone to send troops in, and the troops fought so bravely.
In a war, there as some casualties, and being friends with some people that have died in this war, i know what its like. I mourn for everyone, and everytime i hear about a solider dying in battle. I am not happy when i hear people say that they died for nothing, that is a lie, they died protecting your right to say that. They died so people could live in a world were another 9/11 wont happen. Shame on all of you for spreading such rhetoric.
December 16th, 2005 at 12:02 pmDear Cecilia,
December 16th, 2005 at 12:21 pmAhh…That old jingoistic saw of using terms like “tea drinking, tree hugging,peace belching ass”. What kind of American citizen are you anyway? One that wishes the death of people who may disagree with you? You consider them a threat? To what? Stop and think what you are saying when you write this crap! Let’s see… put everyone in the twin towers and let em’ die! Then we can get on with our lives… in your dictatorship. Cause that’s what it would be. No dissent, no choice. Stop and think! By and large, the common people of the ME didn’t hate us for our freedom… they hate us for our past and present policies favorable to the aristocracies and dictatorships in exchange for cheap oil. It is about money, power and greed. They just play you for a fool! They think your stupid! A conservative blogger once said to me that I shouldn’t be so angry at Bush and that couldn’t I just understand that we can have disagreement between well-intentioned, good-natured people who each think they have the best interest at heart. But it’s comments like yours about fellow Americans that are so callous, unthinking and simplistic that make my blood boil. Screw you!!!
Dissent is patriotic and healthy for a democacy! It’s people like you that will give us the government we ultimately deserve.
What about all the other dangerous regimes and brutal dictators? Was Saddam more urgent? Bush created another afganistan and expanded Irans influence all at the same time. Please god forgive bush and all people who think the sword is the answer. Please be with our troops who do not agree with bush and have to sit like pawns for a photo opp of the bush blasting fellow americans in front of our military people as a backdrop. truly sad and insensitive to our troops who are not supporters. God bless all of us.Life is a mathematical miracle that can be tricked away. Please god forgive the jerry springer show way of communicating we americans have been raised on. let us be constructive and inclusive to solution oriented dialogue. we are red white and blue; not red and blue.
December 16th, 2005 at 12:27 pmPerhaps it takes a rhodes scholar to figure out what he said…
See, the part that states, “Knowing what I know today, I would have still made that decision” qualifies the statement about going to war without WMDs.
He isn’t stating he would have done it back then, but he would have done it back then IF HE KNEW WHAT HE KNOWS TODAY.
Hindsight is 20/20. Sadly, so are many of the IQ’s of anti-Bush crowd.
I am not a pro-Bush supporter, but lets try not to create things out of nothing.
December 16th, 2005 at 12:32 pmI can’t believe that a politician lied to us!
Really, we need to do something to ensure that this new phenomenon doesn’t persist!
December 16th, 2005 at 12:40 pmDamn, go away for several hours, and the place is overrun with trolls. With awful, if any, English skills. Did somebody blow up a mental hospital, and all the escaping patients got free laptops or something? Wow…
December 16th, 2005 at 1:02 pmi no the spelling and grammer used on this thread alone is quite frankly terrible. some people cant even spell britain -”brittan”
December 16th, 2005 at 1:40 pm#251
Sorry, I know mine are terrible. I don’t have english as first language. In fact, I never assisted to any degree of english at all.
December 16th, 2005 at 1:51 pmSo George has made us safer and has prevented another 9/11 from happening here again? Please! Our soldiers have died to protect us from Iraq squelching our freedom of speech. Come on! Compared to our military might, Iraq was a flea on a dog.
December 16th, 2005 at 1:58 pmYet North Korea definitely has atomic weapons, is extremely cash poor, a closed, paranoid and has a track record of being a weapons exporter. The equation does not balance. By your logic we should have kicked North Korea’s teeth in first. Oh wait…China. They might have objected to our meddling in their back yard. Afghanistan was completely justified, but we have run our military into the ground over this grand ideology that has become the mess that is Iraq.
Just because another 9/11 type attack hasn’t happened yet again doesn’t mean that it can’t and probably won’t happen. You can’t prove a negative. Except next time it may well be an atomic weapon in a major city. They want us to change our policies. The 1st WTC bombing, U.S.S Cole, and the east African embassy bombings were intended to get our attention by inflicting some pain. Appearently we have a pretty high pain threshold and hadn’t quite learned the lesson yet. Hence 9/11. What do you think could be next? We upped the anty with Iraq and created a whole generation of people who will never forgive us and never forget what we have done despite the cheesy rhetoric. Short of killing everyone of them, how do you propose to stop a small but growing number of people bent on getting us out of their countries and their lives?
And it was just report yesterday by Knight Ridder that a non-partisan investigation has revealed our legislators did not see everything the president saw, including presidential daily briefings and other documents. They saw what the administration choose to give them! The president has a greater number of sources available to him than Congress. Yes he can make the claim that they saw what he saw, just not all of it! Very disingenous!
I completely support going to war against IRAQ, with or without WMDs. Bush 2 said he’s mistaken for there not being any WMDs there. He can’t change that, but the fact remains that Saddam is/was not a nice guy who killed, raped, tortured, and gassed his own people and was gathering thing other weapons that he wasn’t allowed to have. He repeatedly denied the UN weapon inspectors access, Think if him as being on parole…he broke the terms of parole…now he’s going back to jail…only this time he’s going to get a needle in his arm.
As for Bush 1 not doing the job the first, the only reason he did finish him off was because “The Liberals” complained about the 1st gulf war and how they wanted their boys out of there ASAP. So Bush 1 hoped that by removing Saddam the people of Iraq would be able to rise up over Saddam and his army and be able to take care of themselves once Saddam was removed from power. The people couldn’t.
If the U.S. pulls out of Iraq now the SAME SH** it going to happen again in 10 years. It won’t be with Saddam it’ll be with someone else, and we’ll need to clean up that mess. only next tie instead of it being a 747 into building it’ll small nuclear device in Washington DC.
Stop comparing Bush to WWII, Germany and HITLER; it’s stupid and wrong on so many levels. We’re not rounding everyone of a particular religious belief/race and systematically exterminating them. If Bush we’re even half as crazy as the Nazis, everyone posting on this blog would be taken away by police in the middle of night, forced to dig their own grave, and then shot in the head.
We tried to remove all the troops but that was voted down virtually unanimously…The Democrats are playing politics…and mindless followers are buying into it.
DEMOCRATS CAN’T OPENLY SAY BUSH IS/WAS RIGHT FOR THE WAR BECUASE THEN THERE IS NO REASON TO VOTE DEMOCRAT, AND THEY CAN’T OPENLY DENOUCE THE WAR BECAUSE EVRYONE REALIZES THAT IT UNTRUE, POLITICAL SUICIDE, AND IN THE END IF (AND MOST LIEKYL WHEN) THE U.S. WINS AND IRAQ IS FREE THE DEMOCRATS WILL LOOK REAL STUPID, SO THE ONLY THING THEY CAN DO IS BASH THE REAONS FOR GOING TO WAR. BLAME REPUBLICANS FOR GETTING THEM INTO THIS MESS ANDF SHOW THEM HOW ONLY THE DEMOCRATS CAN GET THEM OUT.
Get a clue and stop listenin to Al franken and reading the NY Times…
December 16th, 2005 at 2:12 pmOK, so who’s the next “not a nice guy” we’re gonna send our military after? Is having a lot of oil in the ground a prerequisite for invading said “not a nice guy’s” country, or are there higher principles involved here?
I seem to remember that we threw money, arms and training at the Taliban crew even up into that fateful year of 2001. It was important to keep the eyes on that pipeline deal (that fell through anyway).
December 16th, 2005 at 2:19 pmDear I-RIGHT-I,
Yes, I am new here and you are making my point exactly. Did you even read my entire post? You call people “Leftist Losers†and immediately alienate them to anything of value you might have to say.
Comment by geotrox
Of course I read your entire post. The one you started by calling me and my Troll Patrol partners a troll. But that’s ok. I’m a troll and you’re a loser. There, see how that works?
Can you even make a credible augument as to why I should make the jump?
Nope. Don’t try if it’s too high.
To what?
To victory over ignorance and the treacherous Warm Fuzzies.
So I’m assuming you had a private education? That’s fine and congratulations! Many are not so fortunate has you may have been. The public school system for all it’s problems, by and large, has turned out a pretty decent group of people who have gone on to go to college, enter a trade, work in government, etc. and just basically man our workforce. And a lot of those problems can be traced back to lack of funding and lack of respect from the legislatures and electorate for a difficult job, leading to poor facilities, outdated texts, overcrowded classrooms, etc.
Don’t give me that crap. The public school system is a mega-billion dollar sham. It’s not designed to help kids learn it’s designed to level the playing field between those that got it and those that don’t by making everyone equally stupid and malleable. I was in a public school system for a number of years. My mother was a teacher. The reason I’m virtually unharmed by the experience is that right out of the box I was smarter than the idiots trying to hold me back.
Also I applaud our teachers in the public school system for doing what they can with what they’ve been given. They strike me as people who mostly give a damn about the kids!
I’ve met the new breed of teacher (not like my mom). Most of them can’t pass a basic skills test or write a complete sentence. They need to be fired by the thousands.
It’s not a job I envy and one I think gets way too little respect, as reflected in their salaries vs. workload/crap them receive.
I know all about that.
I interpret your comments as elitist with regards to the public education system.
You may interpret my comments as me being disgusted with the system and the product it produces. A parent with only a high school degree could do as well, and they do.
You just callously write off a large segment of our populace as being generationally “stupid†because they may not have had all the means you may have had at your disposal.
I haven’t written anyone off. Even the losers on this site with the exception of Ryan and Spudge have a chance at redemption.
What’s your solution? Do you have one? Or are you just cheerleading?
I don’t have a solution because a solution to the problems of the schools would mean changing the hearts and minds of too many people. Public schools are broken and until taxpayers and parents take a stand nothing will happen.
I do have a suggestion to the kiddies and young adults in my audience: Formulate a remedy to Rule No. 1….what is rule number one you ask? “Everything You Know Is Wrong” What’s the remedy? Seek out people whom you know that are older, wiser and smarter than you. Ingratiate yourself with them. Become a question machine. Don’t take any answer as the gospel truth, research it for yourself. Put down the stupid games and the ugly girl next door that puts out and pick up a book. In short; recreate yourself. Improve yourself. Learn to love yourself enough to put out the effort. Stop acting like a child and pretend you are an adult and pretty soon you’ll be one.
This country long ago stopped building men and women of class, character and virtue. If you want to be one you have to do it yourself. “They” are not going to help you.
One more thing. Class, character and virtue are antithetical to the Left. Regardless of what they may think or say, they don’t have it and wouldn’t recognize it if they saw it. If you are one of those, I’m sorry.
December 16th, 2005 at 2:29 pmHe shouldn’t have to make reasons for this. He should just come out and say..these people attacked us, they posed a direct threat, and they are going to die. PERIOD. Wether you like it or not, the USA is the best.
December 16th, 2005 at 2:31 pm#253 – “Our soldiers have died to protect us from Iraq squelching our freedom of speech.” geotrox
December 16th, 2005 at 2:38 pm**** You’re all over the board – to the point of being incoherent. Who is “squelching you freedom of speech” – you’re here, aren’t you!!! You give us a brief history of the US as a paper tiger over the last 30 years – and then decide we should just ignore the barbarians??? Please tell me you DO NOT teach school!!
IT WAS NEVER A WAR.
IT WAS REGIME CHANGE.
ADVERTISED FRONT AND CENTER FROM THE GET GO.
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A WAR IF THEY WERE A THREAT TO US (WHICH THEY WEREN’T) OR IF THEY REALLY HAD ANYTHING TO FIGHT US WITH (WE DESTROYED LITERALLY MOST OF THE ARMY OR ABILITY TO DEPLOY WEAPONS DURING THE 10 YEARS OF INSPECTIONS).
NOW…..Why won’t regime change work?
December 16th, 2005 at 2:40 pm—————————————-
1. We annihilated their entire Army…so we must stay there (with our 12 Army Bases BTW) in order to ensure the protection of the country. In other words, it was never designed to be “regime change” where Iraq could go it alone. We’d of course like to train their police and army so we don’t get shot in the streets, but Bushco has no intent on taking the Army bases away.
2. 40+% of the Iraqi’s have deep seeded hate for the Americans. I suspect the number is actually higher. Well…after killing 100,000 plus in Desert Storm followed by at least that in this campaign, is it any doubt? The Shite majority which will surface under our guidance would rather align with Iran than remain long term bed partners with the US.
3. The only way regime change works is if you can actually secure stability after the regime change. This will be difficult to impossible. Estimates are a 1 Million man army would be needed full time, with sufficient guard of the extensive Iraqi border. In effect, the country would have maintain itself as a police state if it wants to advertise itself as a “westernized democracy”.
Even a “leftie” like me (former republican who watched the party get hijacked by plutocratic corporatists & religious zealots) will freely admit that the USA is “the best”. But does that give us the right to engage in nation-building, war-mongering and generally behave like drunken frat boys in our foreign policy?
December 16th, 2005 at 2:41 pmOsama bin Laden was the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks – so, what about these quotes from our beloved Prez?
“The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our Number one priority and we will not rest until we find him!”
- President Bush, September 13, 2001
“I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and I really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.”
December 16th, 2005 at 2:42 pm- President Bush, March 13, 2002
You really use a broad brush! I agreed with the first Gulf War. I felt Saddam had no right to take Kuwait. If I feel Bush II was wrong about Iraq in my opinion, then why should I say otherwise? If I felt he was right, I would have not have a problem saying so. I can admit when I’m wrong. But it remains to be seen at this point if he was indeed “right”. If and when things really do take a turn for the better there, then perhaps I’ll come around. I hope it does! But the POTENTIAL end does not justify the shifting reasons or the means by which we went to war in this case. What a gamble to take with our future as a country, our treasury and our children’s lives all based on some grand overarching ideology! I do believe he was right about Afghanistan. There I said it!
December 16th, 2005 at 2:51 pmI believed him about Iraq and trusted him. But everything he and his cabal have said would happen hasn’t and it appears that they that we may have bet the farm on this one. Don’t say “But they just had an election!” Well Sadam had elections too. It’s a false benchmark. I can only hope that the Democrats ultimately look stupid on this, because at this point in time, the Republicans surely do! We bash the reasons because they turned out to be false, not look for ways to justify them when they are exposed for what they are. I could not continue to support ANY administration that operates in such a reckless and imcompetent manner. Any other CEO or Chairman would be summarily dismissed for such a monumental screwup. And that’s what it is… a screwup! It obviously hasn’t worked out very well up to now, so can you even fathom why some people might be a little more than skeptical and cynical about this administrations intent, abilities or vision.
Sweet! I made it onto I-RIGHT-I’s black list. Now I feel whole.
December 16th, 2005 at 2:51 pmSweet! I made it onto I-RIGHT-I’s black list. Now I feel whole.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Feel for that hole in your head Spudge.
December 16th, 2005 at 3:14 pmA little background…
I am a former soldier, served in the first gulf war. I say this not for self aggrandizement(spelling?), but to demonstrate that not all soldiers, past and present, have drunk from the neo-con kool-aid fountain.
A few facts as we know them today… We might have more but Bushco are blocking many attempts to access them. Anyway…
Bushco puppets Powell and Rice made speeches prior to 9/11 describing Saddam/Iraq as a non-threat and praising the success of the previous decade’s policy of sanctions.
Bushco ignored the Hart-Rudman report, Ignored Richard Clarke, ignored the Clinton administration and their warnings about Al Qaeda and the the threat it represented.
Bushco is known to have had designs on attacking Iraq prior to 9/11 and was just looking for an excuse.
Trying to use the UN sanctions as justification for attacking Iraq while ignoring that the UN opposed our attacking Iraq is laughable. In other words we’ll listen to the U.N. when we like what they’re saying and it reinforces our agenda, but ignore them when they don’t. It’s like a lwayer discrediting their own witness.
Why doens’t it bother a single conservative that the justifications for invasion have changed repeatedly and only as each successive justification has been disproved? Granted there was a laundry list at the beginning that paid lip service to the justifications to farther down the list, but the core argument has changed repeatedly from the threat of WMDs, to the ties to Al Qaeda, to Iraqi liberation, and again, each core argument has been casually tossed aside as they’ve been disproven with no repercussions for anyone.
On that thought, it is laughable for anyone to claim that Iraq is now free. They are most certainly not free. On paper yes, but let’s see them try to put that freedom into action. Thus far no dice. From being under the thumb of their occupiers, to the threat of death from ongoing skirmishes, warring Iraqi factions, stray bombs, etc… It is a hollow freedom, indeed a freedom in name only. Furthermore, if and when we are finally out of the picture, decades from now, what will an Iraq chosen by Iraqis look like? Will it even still be Iraq or possibly several separate states as the centuries old divides suggest may be the only truly peaceful outcome. How much bloodshed will there be between now any form of a peaceful Iraq, and on whose hands is that blood? Even then freedom for whom? For the women under Sharia law? I don’t think so. What have we wrought in this fragile part of the world? Yeah, they hate us for our freedoms and not our self-interest-serving policies that lead to the untimely deaths of tens of thousands in the remote regions of the world.
Conveniently forgetting that Hussein never kicked out the UN inspectors is also interesting. They left of their own free will when their safety could not be guaranteed after being informed of the Clinton Admin’s intent to make strikes in Iraq. Now, an argument could be made for them not being allowed back in, but that is not the argument usually made.
It is also interesting to note that Bushco conveniently forgets that the inspectors were allowed back in and that they found nothing to support Bushco’s push for war. Furthermore every time Hussein/Iraq complied with a new demand Bushco would dismiss it as a Hussein trick. In other words nothing Hussein/Iraq did was going to stop Bushco from invading. It is also interesting to note Bushco refused to give the inpsectors more time they were requesting to complete their investigations. Yet even as recently as the last few weeks Bushco tries to claim it was Hussein who was responsible for the war.
It is particularly galling to hear conservatives state “but he used WMDs on his own people” when it was a conservative admin that sold those weapons to Hussein, and a conservative admin that asked congress and the UN not to sanction Hussein for that usage. But when have conservatives ever shied away from hypocrisy?
It is mind-numbingly astounding that some, read Giacomo, suggest that Bush was mislead by bad intelligence when there is ample evidence that WHIG and the Office of Special Plans cherry picked the intelligence to present exactly the argument they wanted while ignoring and in fact suppressing intel that conflicted with the goal of invasion. The only plausible argument for Bush innocence is that he was an ignorant, duped by Cheney et al, which still doesn’t speak highly of him or his administration.
Evidence of this administrations dishonesty and efforts to hide that dishonesty are mounting daily, eg. The Cheney energy commission and their denials of collusion with the energy industry where the lie was reveald the day after they testified before congress while not undr oath. How convenient.
Then of course there’s the whole Plame drama.
At some point we have to ask when does one’s duty as an American trump one’s duty as a Republican. Lincoln is spinning like a whirling dervish in his grave.
December 16th, 2005 at 3:35 pmThe good people of America excluded and not at all belittleing the loss of life. the American GOVERNMENT is what brought the USA 9/11. Tragic as it was from a figure head pov, that is that of world leaders the attack on the US that occured on 9/11 was a long time coming. The American government is an entity unto itself with very little influence from the actual people who live within its control. the USA has a long standing habit of forcing its bloated power corrupted influence on countries whether they are willing to succumb or not it was just a matter of time before the fight was brought back to its doorstep..and 9/11 struck where it hurt most AT HOME it was a message that despite the US military might, despite all the intelligence, all the power… the fight could indeed be brought to the door of the mightiest nation in the world and THAT is a scary thought. Bush is simply one head on a hydra with infinite heads… You cut out Bush and another pawn will step up to the plate. The Government as an entity unto itself will only side with the President as long as it suits its goals. Dont blame Bush blame the perversion of democracy that the US government has become, Bush is just the fall guy for the actions the US gov has been taking, the decisions that have been made in the last hundred years.
December 16th, 2005 at 3:40 pmDear I-RIGHT-I,
Yes, yes! Your such a genius and we’re all so stupid and ignorant that we can’t see The Grand Master Plan. Damn those Warm and Fuzzies! Damn me having any sense of community or shared responsibility. Damn me not seeing the “light”. I am sorry for the “troll” comment and was broad brushing when I said it, but when said you know which group I was refering to immediately didn’t you? Sorry for that much at least.
Sorry that I’m such a “loser” in your eyes. I promise to try harder to come up to your expectations! But I don’t need your pity for my life.
“This country long ago stopped building men and women of class, character and virtue. If you want to be one you have to do it yourself. “They†are not going to help you.”
I suppose by that broad statement you include ALL our current politicians running the show or just my bums. “They” are hurting us, certainly not helping.
I’m sure you are entirely a self made man, never having to rely on anyone but yourself for any of your education, shelter, protection, food, etc. Your family built their own house in the woods, grew and canned all their food, hunted wildgame and read the bible by candle light. I bet you even walked 10 miles to school in the snow, uphill both ways. We should all be so fortunate as you in how our character was built. We should all be so responsible.
Yes, every teacher is an “idiot” except your mom and everyone’s congressman is a bum except mine and yadda yadda. I don’t know what your benchmarks for “Class, character and virtue” are based on, but let’s just say that I’m glad my little planet doesn’t revolve around your sun.
December 16th, 2005 at 3:43 pmWell said Geotrox, well said indeed.
December 16th, 2005 at 3:51 pmgeotrox,
December 16th, 2005 at 4:08 pmall opinion aside,you at least sound like you’ve been to school.I-RIGHT-I sounds like they’re pissed off at everybody.would anyone else agree?
Everybody that doesn’t share their narrow view of what’s right and wrong with the world.
December 16th, 2005 at 4:09 pmyou can trust the government,just ask an indian.
December 16th, 2005 at 4:13 pmwhy is it that once sombody post something intelligent on here we don’t hear from I-RIGHT-I anymore?
December 16th, 2005 at 4:20 pmwhy is it that once sombody post something intelligent on here we don’t hear from I-RIGHT-I anymore?
Comment by bud
Frankly bud I’m the only one qualified to determine what is intelligent and what is left wing kiddie porn. But I’ll give you a shot. What did I miss that YOU think is worth reading?
December 16th, 2005 at 4:25 pmhere is a good one i learned before i ever went to school.
December 16th, 2005 at 4:25 pmWORRY ABOUT YOURSELF.
common sense is something this whole world lacks.
you really like to talk about kiddie porn don’t you.
December 16th, 2005 at 4:27 pmI don’t know what your benchmarks for “Class, character and virtue†are based on, but let’s just say that I’m glad my little planet doesn’t revolve around your sun.
Comment by geotrox
It does you just can’t feel the heat. Maybe when you’re older. By the way….you’e welcome for all hard earned insight I just gave away. Next time I may want a check.
December 16th, 2005 at 4:31 pm[...] Caught on Tape: Bush Admits WMD Were Irrelevant (Think Progress) [...]
December 16th, 2005 at 4:39 pmI-RIGHT-I,
December 16th, 2005 at 4:40 pmJesus can only save you if you know what he’s saying.and never in the bible did he talk like you.jesus,yes jesus was a pacifist.that’s why the right winged roman empire had him destoyed.
Make no mistake about it, there is no caring or compassion when it comes to the government all the american people are to the gov are statistics, figures, and tools. To think otherwise is foolish. The government doesnt “care” it cares about the bottom line and dont think for a second any one of us isnt expendable if our purpose doesnt fit into the governments vision. The Forefathers had a clear vision of what they wanted for the US and that has been sterilized and perverted by the government the US has now and has had for a while.
December 16th, 2005 at 5:04 pmWOW you are all idiots, this speach was manufactured using the tools at bushspeech.org, good try tho!
December 16th, 2005 at 5:19 pmUnderstand that Right-Wing-Wackos like I-Right-I are trying to bring this discussion down to the level of name calling, since they know that they don’t have the facts on their side.
December 16th, 2005 at 5:20 pmCase in point: 12/16/05, According to the bipartisan Congressional Research Service, Bush DID NOT present the same intelligence (that he posesssed) to the Congress in making his case for the Iraq war. In particular, caveats and disclaimers regarding the questionable validity of the intelligence were removed! Nevertheless, Bush still continues to tell the lie: “Congress saw the same intelligence that I did..”
There’s nothing wrong with being conservative, but when your party loyalty is greater than your loyalty to your country, then YOU are a traitor!
Signed,
A True Patriot
PS: I am most proud to say that not only am I a Liberal, but I am a Tree-Hugging, Tea-Drinking, ACLU supporter! Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
[...] Bush apparently now thinks that WMD’s were irrelevant in the invasion of Iraq. [...]
December 16th, 2005 at 6:40 pm68- I think Jay describes the situation exactly how it is happening in the United States. Giacomo, you sound like a school teacher who pontificates in a classroom. You are so removed from the horror of what is going on in the United States and in Iraq. “30,000 lives” to you is just something for the sake of argument. You admit that you are against the war and that you certainly are free to voice your
December 16th, 2005 at 6:58 pm“opinion.” And that we have to “finish” it. You belong in a perpetual coctail party voicing your “opinion” while thousands are experiencing the horrors of war all because Bush and Cheney want their pals to get richer. Doesn’t that make you sick????? Giacomo, I suggest you watch very carefully where the oil goes and who is going to get the rights to drill in Iraq where areas where the oil is just below the surface. Where it only cost a dollar a barrel to drill giving potentential profits in the trillions. Also, look at the history of the pipeline being built in Afganistan and please don’t come back and say it was a coincidence. Bush and Co. should be on trial for Treason.
This page really needs to make the rounds accompanying yesterdays remarks.
Disarm Saddam Hussein
The gravest danger we face in the war on terror is outlaw regimes that seek and possess nuclear, chemical and biological weapons.
Twelve years ago, Saddam Hussein agreed to disarm all weapons of mass destruction. For 12 years, he systematically violated that agreement.
December 16th, 2005 at 7:09 pmThree months ago, the United Nations Security Council gave Saddam his final chance to disarm. He has shown his utter contempt for the U.N.
The U.N. and U.S. intelligence sources have known for some time that Saddam Hussein has materials to produce chemical and biological weapons, but he has not accounted for them:
26,000 liters of anthrax—enough to kill several million people
38,000 liters of botulinum toxin
500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agents
Almost 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents
From three Iraqi defectors, we know that Iraq in the late 1990s had several mobile biological weapons labs. But he has not disclosed them.
The International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed in the 1990s that Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program, a design for a nuclear weapon, and was working on methods of enriching uranium for a nuclear bomb. He recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa, according to the British Government. He has attempted to purchase high strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons, according to our intelligence sources. Yet he has not credibly explained these activities.
Thousands of Iraqi security personnel are at work hiding documents and materials from the UN inspectors.
Iraqi officials accompany all inspectors in order to intimidate witnesses.
Iraq is blocking U-2 surveillance flights requested by the U.N.
Saddam Hussein has ordered that scientists who cooperate with the UN be killed, along with their families.
Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including al-Qaida members. He could provide hidden weapons to terrorists, or help them develop their own. It would take just one vial, one canister, one crate slipped into this country to bring a day of horror like none we have ever known.
December 16th, 2005 at 9:21 pm
A little information about Iraq that the right wingers never seem to bring up…so I question them:
The Iraqi insurgency is growing and I am wondering why nobody can see that there is really a simple solution. Unemployment is a huge problem for the average Iraqi family. The last figures I was able to obtain, and I am not certain of their accuracy, was in the neighborhood of 80%. I have read on blogs by Iraqis that the Iraqi people fortunate enough to get jobs from the multinational corporations that are being paid obscene ammounts of our tax dollars for reconstruction are making in a lot of cases less that 10% of the wages that the Americans that they are working along side of are making. The Iraqi people are tired of seeing their country being plundered.
The fix is easy…Pull the multinationals out and pay Iraqi businesses and Iraqi workers to rebuild their country. Give them something they can be proud of. Give them some dignity. They have built and rebuilt their country since the dawn of civilization and are well up to the task now.
I truly believe in my heart that this war was never about weapons, never about liberty, nor ever about the defense of our country. This war was orchistrated so that a few people could make a lot of money. This administration, their family and friends reek of profiteering. There is an old saying that if you truly want to know why something has happened and who is ultimately responsible, just follow the money.
One small fact that seems to have been forgotten is that The United States does not own Iraq. According to International Law, any people whose country has been invaded and occupied has the right, no, the responsibilty of insurgency.
I also wonder why nobody seems to have noticed that the invasion of Iraq was not only illegal according to International Law, but illegal by American Law as well. Unless, of course, the Federal Government has the authority to over ride the Constitution to fit its whims. Please note below the plain language of The Constitution of the United States and The Charter of the United Nations, a treaty that our country signed, ratified and is legaly bound to, according to the Constitution.
Article VI, Paragraph 2, The Constitution of the United States:
“This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.”
Article II, Paragraphs 3 and 4, The Charter of the United Nations:
“All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.”
But then, as it is reported by insiders, Bush asks angrily,”Why do you keep throwing the Constitution in my face? It’s just a God damned piece of paper.”
The voice of a true patriot…did he not swear an oath to defend that piece of paper?
December 16th, 2005 at 9:53 pmHey guys, since Bush is such a criminal (or at least Rove, if you buy into the theory that Bush does nothing but follow), you would think that if he lied to get us into this war then he would at least cover up his tracks by planting WMDs in Iraq. I mean, it is the only logical thing to do if you make up reasons to invade a country.
Oh but! umm, oh, um, you know, Rove just, uh, forgot that little part of the plan, yeahh,uh, that’s right. Criminal! Fascist!
Hmmm… there is no story on ThinkProgress about Iraq’s Thursday election where all Iraqis, even Sunnis, turned out in mass to vote. What do you think? Your silence is deafening.
December 16th, 2005 at 9:55 pm[...] This week on Brit Hume, Bush said he would have invaded even if there weren’t any WMDs in Iraq. [...]
December 16th, 2005 at 10:28 pmI hope every day that the Iraq situation improves. The massive turnout in the election is a good thing. I am especially glad that the Sunnis participated. I wish only the best results for Iraq.
You seem not to understand that even though some good things as well as some bad things coming from an illegal act makes it no less illegal. That is like saying that if a drunk driver crosses the median of a highway and kills the occupants of two oncoming cars, one a nice family with a hard working father, and one a convicted murderer who escaped from prison, the drunk driver didn’t commit a crime because he got a bad guy. Sorry, that argument doesn’t wash.
We are supposed to be a nation governed by law, not by men. The Constitution is still the Law of the Land and no argument will change that.
December 16th, 2005 at 10:31 pmWhy? Bush would have a much better chance avoiding impeachment getting caught in a lie, than if he planted WMD and got caught with them. Think about that for a second if for some reason Bush decided to plant WMD in Iraq and then by some misfortune got caught it would be far more disasterous not just for Bush and his administration but for the US itself… Thats why planting WMD was left out of their “plan”
December 17th, 2005 at 12:58 amBush authorized NSA to spy on Americans and the White House suppressed a NY Times report on the subject for a whole year… lol Bush just gets worse and worse sorta like the Star Wars epic.
December 17th, 2005 at 1:07 am-RIGHT-I,
Jesus can only save you if you know what he’s saying.and never in the bible did he talk like you.jesus,yes jesus was a pacifist.that’s why the right winged roman empire had him destoyed.
Comment by bud
Jesus is no pacifist and the Romans didn’t kill him for being one. In fact the Romans didn’t kill him at all, His Father did. Jesus allowed himself to be taken. Had He wished it any other way the last page written about the Roman Empire would have been about that day. He’s not the pussy cat, He’s the Lion.
December 17th, 2005 at 12:47 pmThe fact that we are engulfed in the morass that is Iraq lies squarely at the feet of the “free” press of this nation. Rather than listen to and investigate the small voices declaring the lack of substantial facts, they allowed themselves to be cowed and intimidated by the government’s assertion that “You’re either with us, or against us”, and if you’re against us you’re not a patriot.
December 17th, 2005 at 1:25 pmIf the press had devoted the same coverage given to Janet Jackson’s wardrobe malfunction this country would have been more informed of the inconsistencies of the governments reasons for war. The press of this nation has a unique obligation to inform the citizens of the “Who”, “What”, “Where” and “Why”. Sadly the prevailing tenet in the press seems to be, “Show me a tit and tell me a lie.”
Sadly the prevailing tenet in the press seems to be, “Show me a tit and tell me a lie.â€
Comment by ehutche
Perhaps you’d like Mike Wallace to write the script for the nation’s Left Wing rags and nightly news anchors? You liked the news people well enough when they trotted out that forged memo didn’t you? You loved the coverage of Abu Garahb prison and the poor naked terrorists didn’t you? If there was a smoking gun to be found prior to the Iraq conquest they would have found it and shoved it up Bush’s ass. But they didn’t and it wasn’t for a lack of trying. You’re either stupid as a box of rocks or like most of them here just plain old dishonest.
December 17th, 2005 at 6:49 pm(Note: Bush did not say “purposes.†According to Bush, there was only one purpose.)
Try reading it again. Here’s what he said:
My fellow citizens, at this hour, American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger.
And helping Iraqis achieve a united, stable and free country will require our sustained commitment.
We have no ambition in Iraq, except to remove a threat and restore control of that country to its own people.
Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly — yet, our purpose is sure. The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder.
We will bring freedom to others and we will prevail.
December 17th, 2005 at 9:51 pm#142
30 000 is a token number. An independent London group whose name escapes me estimated innocent deaths at atleast 100 000 more than a year ago.
Comment by apfjeofijafioj
And the only people who didn’t laugh their asses off at their ridiculous methods were the anti-war, anti-military liberals.
Why do you think nobody quotes that study anymore?
December 17th, 2005 at 9:55 pmLibs used to swear by Iraqbodycount.org until that pap of a study came along, then they swore by that for a few months until they realized what a joke it was. Now they use unspecific terms like “countless” instead.
I-Right-I wrote:
You apparently don’t have a clue about Jesus. He was not only a pacifist, He was the Prince of Peace.
The Romans didn’t kill Him for being a pacifist, they killed Him because the Pharisees and Herod wanted him killed. He was a threat to their established and corrupt order and authority.
Our Father, His Father, did not kill him, or require His death at all. These are rather primitive and barbaric notions. However you are correct in saying He allowed Himself to be taken. He refused to use His divine powers to change temporal events, or escape the consequences of His teachings or revelations of God to mankind.
You are also correct that His slightest wish could have eliminated His killers, or the entire Roman Empire. But He never likened Himself to a lion, only to a good shepherd, whose flock knows His voice.
Do you know His voice?
If you think Jesus would approve of this war of aggression then you do not know His voice, or what He taught us about His/our Father’s will, which is about loving God and our fellow man – all men.
He would not have approved the killing of innocents by the invasion of a sovereign nation, even a rogue nation with a tyrant at its head.
Do you suppose Saddam was much worse than Herod, who slaughtered every child under two years of age in Bethlehem in an attempt to kill the prophesied child Messiah or redeemer?
Are you sure you would know His voice?
December 17th, 2005 at 10:35 pmThats all fine and good assuming your religious if your like me… and not… than you go by what you feel in your heart is right, in every major religion in the world you have a reward vs punishment dynamic. I dont do good deeds because of the promise of reward when i die, I do good because thats my nature. When asking if what Bush did is right or wrong i think its folly to look to religion, look at the base moral impact of his actions killing is wrong you cant justify a murder no matter what the basis of your argument is eye for an eye, mercy, revenge, murder is murder especially by christian logic. Its ironic that the cornerstone of peoples strength is largely responsible for some of if not most of the bloodiest most brutal and horrific conflicts in our young history.
December 18th, 2005 at 1:27 amOur Father, His Father, did not kill him, or require His death at all. These are rather primitive and barbaric notions. Do you know His voice?
Comment by Jl Hough
I don’t know what cult you belong to but having said what you just said it’s clear to even the baby Christian you do not Hear His voice.
Here, for the first time on Think Communist it’s my pleasure to present in outling form The Lord’s Plan of Salvation. Listen to His voice.
God tells the truth about mankind:
“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.” (Romans 3:10)
“For there is not a just man upon earth, that does good, and does not sin.” (Ecclesiastes 7:20)
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23)
“…For there is no man that sins not….” (1 Kings 8:46)
“All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him [Jesus] the iniquity of us all.” (Isaiah 53:6)
God says that He must punish sin:
“Behold, all souls are Mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.” (Ezekiel 18:4)
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)
God tells the inside story about His remedy for sin:
“Come now, and let us reason together, says the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” (Isaiah 1:18)
“God commends [demonstrates] His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8)
“Who His own self bare our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes you were healed.” (l Peter 2:24)
“He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5)
“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit.” (Titus 3:5)
“For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8, 9)
God wants to save you and will save you if you will follow His instructions:
“He who believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he who believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3:36)
“And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved, and your household.” (Acts 16:31)
“To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whoever believes in Him shall receive remission of sins.” (Acts 10:43)
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)
“And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book: but these are written, that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you might have life through His name.” (John 20:30, 31)
God definitely declares that there is only one way to be saved:
“Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by Me.” (John 14:6)
“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)
“Jesus said, I am the resurrection and the life: he that believes in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?” (John 11:25, 26)
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” (l Timothy 2:5)
Christ extends to you a personal invitation:
“All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me; and he that comes to Me I will in no wise cast out.” (John 6:37)
December 18th, 2005 at 1:01 pmYou may not know what “cult” I belong to, but I know what cult YOU belong to: one of the thousands of cults and sub-cults of so-called Christianity.
I follow, as best I can, the faith and teachings of Jesus, and that is something entirely different from traditional, institutional Christianity.
Christianity, as is proved by your old and new testament quotations are primarily the flawed and imperfect understandings of Paul, the so-called Apostle, who never knew Jesus or heard Him teach while He lived in the flesh on Earth.
What you fail to understand is that Christianity, while in many ways a very good religion ABOUT Jesus, contains very little of the faith or religion OF Jesus. Christianity is a man-made religion, complete with faulty creeds, doctrines, dogmas, and concepts ABOUT Jesus, that replaced the faith OF Jesus that He taught while among us 2000 years ago.
Most of your quotations are of Paul, a few of Peter, who did know Jesus while he lived, and yet was imperfect enough in his faith to deny the Master three times on the eve of His torturous crucifixion. How many times did the Master say, “How long have I been among you, and yet you still do not understand.”?
Man is slow to comprehend divine truth, but quick to corrupt and distort it as it passes through human hands and minds. And that is precisely what happened in varying degrees with the 11 remaining Apostles after the death of Jesus, and Judas. The overwhelming fact of the resurrection overcame the Master’s teaching’s while He lived and walked among them, and the resurrection, while factual, became the central “gospel”, replacing the original gospel, or good news, that Jesus taught while he was among them.
That “good news” or gospel, was that all men are the sons of God, and by faith can come to know and realize that sonship; and that the fact that God is the Father/Creator of all men who appropriate that fact by faith makes all men brothers. The “gospel” of Jesus was the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Men – all men and all women, everywhere, who have not fully and consciously rejected that Father/Son relationship through iniquity, habitual sin.
If your intentions are pure, and these quotations you provided are the limits of your capacity for understanding, it will not be held against you, nor any other soul. But your NT quotes are mostly Paul’s imperfect understandings. Your OT quotes are of an earlier era, whose faulty understandings of God were among the things Jesus came to correct.
Jesus came to replace the religions of priests and lawgivers with the religion of the heart and soul. All true religion is the inner experience of knowing God as your Creator-Father and yourself as His Son, and other Men as your Brother. Religious authorities are not needed, and only get in the way of true religion. Jesus was crucified because of this teaching, and the threat that it represented to established religious authority.
I repeat, to hold or teach that God could not offer salvation to his sons until His blameless Son was sacrificed is a primitive, even barbarous concept. It is an affront to God, a demeaning insult to the majesty and mercy, and justice and love that is God.
Are you sure you know Jesus?
December 18th, 2005 at 2:26 pm[...] Weapons of mass destruction? Forget about them; They’re irrelevant. As Bush tells Brit Hume, he would have still invaded Iraq even if he had known that there weren’t any. BUSH: I said I made the right decision. Knowing what I know today, I would have still made that decision. [...]
December 19th, 2005 at 1:51 amOrganized religion is a control, it was a means for king James to keep his subjects in line the original translation of the bible differs greatly from the idealistic fabricated version that we have now. The Crusades are some of the bloodiest conflicts ever in history and they were all done in His name Christianity is a perversion of a pure faith, in my opinion stay away from the hypocrisy that the church represents and stay true to your beliefs. God didnt tell or guide Bush’ hand in wiping out 30,000 lives.. he decided that on his own
December 19th, 2005 at 3:00 amScientific studies including by the English Medical Journal the Lancet indicate that as of 12 months ago the minumum number of Iraqi civilian deaths was 100,000. The data randomized something like 40 locations, counted the excess deaths and did the calculus. Interestingly one of the initial ‘random’ locations was Fallouja which if used (they decided to remove it) would have indicated a total death count of over 260,00. To date the minumum scientifically derived totals are 150,000 deaths which include war violence but also unnecessary deaths due to the destruction of the healthcare infrastructure. It is also estimated that Saddam over 20 years killed roughly 300,000 of his own people. So the ‘Coalition of the Willing’ is halfway to Saddam’s total in less than three years. The war criminals running the US will be lucky to escape the ICC for violations of about five discreet treaties and international laws we supposedly subscribe to. So much for Dubya and company’s respect for the ‘rule of law.’ These guys are THUGS pure and simple.
December 19th, 2005 at 6:23 pmI’m pretty sure this thread was Godwinned already, but if not…
Q: What’s the difference between Hitler and Bush?
December 20th, 2005 at 4:35 amA: Hitler was elected legitimately. (And had good looks, too.)
Scientific studies including by the English Medical Journal the Lancet indicate that as of 12 months ago the minumum number of Iraqi civilian deaths was 100,000.
Comment by Mike Norris
Nonsense. That study was a put up job by British communists intent on hurting Tony Blair. It was exposed the minute it was published.
December 20th, 2005 at 10:45 amI repeat, to hold or teach that God could not offer salvation to his sons until His blameless Son was sacrificed is a primitive, even barbarous concept. It is an affront to God, a demeaning insult to the majesty and mercy, and justice and love that is God.
Are you sure you know Jesus?
Comment by Jl Hough
And yet that is exactly what scriptures teach us. I know what cult you belong to. I never ask a question around here I don’t already know the answer to.
I could go into detail of why you are wrong but then I’ve already given you the truth and you come back with utilitarian humanistic warm fuzzies that are meaningless. You can’t save yourself brother. Not from the justice of a Holy God. It is you that demean and defame by suggesting otherwise.
Oh, by the way. The faith of Jesus was the Mosaic Law. That is if you can say that God has a faith.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:38 amtheres no such thing as british communists, yes theres radical pc-brigade but no open commies
December 20th, 2005 at 11:38 amtheres no such thing as british communists, yes theres radical pc-brigade but no open commies
Comment by leaderx
BS..they’re called the Labor Party
December 20th, 2005 at 2:41 pmI-Right-I wrote:
Your ignorance is exceeded only by your unbounded arrogance. You can not possibly know what “cult” I “belong to” because I don’t “belong to” anything that remotely fits accepted definitions of a “cult”. That is, unless you call the teachings of Jesus the foundations of a “cult”.
Your so-called “truth” is the same “truth” that the Pharisees used to condemn and crucify Jesus: Mosaic Law narrowly interpreted by authoritarian legalisms administered by a hypocritical power-craving money-hungry priesthood.
As for “ulilitarian humanistic warm fuzzies”, it seems that you have a derogatory label for everything and anyone that disagrees with your offensive dogma.
You would not recognize the truth standing in front of you, any more than Pilate could when it was staring him in the face. “Truth? What is truth?”, he said, as He prepared to execute our Lord.
So, according to you, our Creator incarnated as Jesus just so He could reaffirm the law of Moses? Brother, you don’t even have a clue. And it is certain that you have no knowledge of Jesus, His teachings, or how He added to our knowledge of Deity.
If I were you I’d spend a lot more time in sincere prayer for understanding. All sincere prayers are answered, and you might just open your heart and mind enough to let a little light shine in.
December 20th, 2005 at 4:28 pmThe way the country seems to be in a permanent state of withdrawal, GWB can say anything he wants without a hint of protest. Democrats have become lapdogs and have just about lost the backing they had in the last two elections. It’s sad to see an obvious liar be given the benefit of the doubt time and again. He’s like an abusive husband who keeps getting slaps on the wrist…then goes home and beats the hell out of his wife, over and over, while the neighbors say, “that’s a shame…we hope someone will come and help her”.
December 22nd, 2005 at 11:09 amYour ignorance is exceeded only by your unbounded arrogance. You can not possibly know what “cult†I “belong to†because I don’t “belong to†anything that remotely fits accepted definitions of a “cultâ€. That is, unless you call the teachings of Jesus the foundations of a “cultâ€.
Comment by Jl Hough —
The teachings of Jesus are the foundation of several cults. Yours happens to be a soft agnostic position firmly rooted in post modern secular humanism. You losers love to quote Jesus and say how much you admire him but you don’t know Him and you don’t really care to.
Your so-called “truth†is the same “truth†that the Pharisees used to condemn and crucify Jesus: Mosaic Law narrowly interpreted by authoritarian legalisms administered by a hypocritical power-craving money-hungry priesthood.
I gave you the outline of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Only a retard could confuse that with the Jews who were keeping the letter of the Law but ignoring the Spirit. In that regard they are more like Leftists keeping a rigid politically correct and Marxist doctrine.
As for “ulilitarian humanistic warm fuzziesâ€, it seems that you have a derogatory label for everything and anyone that disagrees with your offensive dogma.
The truth hurts don’t it buddy
So, according to you, our Creator incarnated as Jesus just so He could reaffirm the law of Moses? Brother, you don’t even have a clue. And it is certain that you have no knowledge of Jesus, His teachings, or how He added to our knowledge of Deity.
This kind of answer is why I don’t waste much time on the unlettered walking dead who think they know something. Jesus was a Jew. The only Jew able to keep the entire law. In His flesh he was a Jew. In His deity He was Christ taking upon Himself the sins of the world as the ONLY acceptable sacrifice, the only perfect sacrifice for a Holy God. Jesus did reaffirm the Law but He did more than that. He affirmed the Prophets and fulfilled the Law so we don’t have to.
You have a very immature and ignorant concept of God’s plan of redemption of mankind and Christ’s saving work on the cross. And that sir is why you are a Left Wing Walking Dead Loser. For some reason God has not given it to you to know. Perhaps He has given you just enough to keep you awake nights wondering why nothing makes sense to you. That could be your invitation to get down on your knees and ask Him.
If I were you I’d spend a lot more time in sincere prayer for understanding. All sincere prayers are answered, and you might just open your heart and mind enough to let a little light shine in.
Been there, done that. That’s why I know what I speak of and everything you know is wrong.
December 23rd, 2005 at 5:53 pmyour both idiots!
December 24th, 2005 at 2:03 pmyour both idiots!
Comment by Jebus hating SOB
Merry Christmas! Chances are you’ll grow out of it.
December 25th, 2005 at 9:35 pm[...] Bush admits he would have gone to war in Iraq even if he knew there were no WMD’s. But in his speeches leading up to and during the war, he made it strikingly clear that the WMD’s were the reason we were waging this war. [...]
April 4th, 2006 at 11:08 am[...] * Bush admits WMDs were irrelevant in decision to go to war. >:( [...]
April 15th, 2006 at 4:53 amBarry will own bush
January 10th, 2007 at 1:42 pm