Defeatism and Troop Morale: Bush’s False Argument
Defeatism and Troop Morale: Bush’s False Argument
President Bush claimed tonight that a redeployment of U.S. forces out of Iraq would undermine their morale:
It is also important for every American to understand the consequences of pulling out of Iraq before our work is done. … We would undermine the morale of our troops – by betraying the cause for which they have sacrificed.
Bush is wrong — staying the course indefinitely is not the way to improve the morale of our soldiers. Calls for a redeployment of forces that would strengthen our national security do not undermine our soldiers. What hurts troop morale is this administration’s flailing military strategy in Iraq. President Bush needs to listen carefully to the comments of the soldiers on the ground who spoke today to Vice President Cheney:
“From our perspective, we don’t see much as far as gains,” said Marine Cpl. Bradley Warren, the first to question Cheney in a round-table discussion with about 30 military members. “We’re looking at small-picture stuff, not many gains.”
Infact, Bush’s suggestion that U.S. forces have not completed their mission is false. A true patriot, decorated veteran Rep. Jack Murtha (D-PA) said it best today:
What the troops get disappointed [about] is they don’t have the equipment they need, didn’t have enough troops when they went in in the first place, inadequate forces to transition to peace. That’s the thing to demoralize them. …The military has accomplished its mission, done everything we asked them to do. Nation building is not part of the mission a military does well.
Disagreeing with the President on Iraq is not defeatism. It’s patriotism.
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Hmmmmm….lets, see, he’s admitting he got everything wrong going in, and now he’s asking me to believe him about everything on getting out……hmmmmmm…..what to do……
December 18th, 2005 at 9:37 pmWas it just me or could he not pronounce “Controversy”?
December 18th, 2005 at 9:38 pmHe’s lucky if he can pronounce his own name.
December 18th, 2005 at 9:49 pmI watched the speach myself and found it much like the plan BushCo released a few days back, lacking lots of depth. His attempt to draw a historical parallel to the antiwar protests during the Civil War was a best feeble at worst asinine. His vailed reference to Murtha’s lack of patriotism and assistance to the terrorists was actually quite sad. As a retired soldier who spent half of my adult life in military intelligence I can tell you first hand that we need MORE men and women like Murtha, for they are the true patriots…
December 18th, 2005 at 10:12 pm“Disagreeing with the President on Iraq is not defeatism. It’s patriotism.”
How DARE you question the patriotism of those who disagree with you, Nico. LOL
And finding one soldier who doesn’t see many gains proves nothing.
December 18th, 2005 at 10:50 pmLike I said before wwallace, calling what is happening in Iraq progress, is a real strech of the imagination.
If I were to cut off your leg to remove a mole, well, that’s kinda like what we did to Iraq.
And then while your lying there bleeding to death, if I were to throw you a tourniquet, then I guess you could call that progress if you want. :|
December 18th, 2005 at 10:54 pmThe Shell Game
December 14, 2005
The article “Iraq war need nears $100 billion†by Liz Sidoti of the Associated Press demonstrate the failure of our government and the mainstream media to come to terms of the true facts of why we invaded Iraq and still requesting billions more to support that Big Fat Lie known as the Iraq war. The failure of the Republican and Democrat Parties to clarify and justify why we’re still in Iraq will cost this country more billions down the road as well as human lives, both Iraqi and American. The recent speeches of President Bush continue to deceive the American public why we’re in Iraq to the point that any word that comes out of his mouth is a non seqiutur, just like the recent and present demands to keep funding this deliberate and fabricated war. I’m sure you have heard of me numerous of times referring the Iraq war as The Big Fat Lie and even Bush will supported me in this: during the 2004 election debate with John Kerry, President Bush admitted publicly that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or any connection with al-Qaeda, as the bipartisan 9/11 Commission reported. Yet Bush kept referring Iraq as the one who was responsible for 9/11 when it isn’t so and the general media continuingly refuse to call him on that. Why? And why should we continue to shell out? The answer couldn’t be what the president had stated: “The administration long has contended that it can’t put a price tag on future cost because of the unpredictable nature of war.†The statement’s error is two-fold: we are putting a price on this war and it’s unlimited. As for its unpredictability the news on the war front has been a constant disaster on a day-to-day basis with no end on sight, further justifying the bogus cost of this bogus war. The one question President Bush won’t ever answer: “Why with every failed and fabricated assertions you have made and continue to make about this costly and disastrous war you have yet to step down from office?â€
December 18th, 2005 at 10:57 pmThey went from totalitarianism to democracy in three years, Worfeus. Only a complete moron would say that isn’t progress.
December 18th, 2005 at 10:57 pmThey went from totalitarianism to democracy in three years, Worfeus. Only a complete moron would say that isn’t progress.
Comment by wwallace — December 18, 2005 @ 10:57 pm
Then call me a complete moron.
Cause I guess if you think that the religously divided anarchy, the death, blood running red in the streets, the children dying every day, no electricity, no public utilities, the anarchy, if this is what you call democracy, then you must be really, really smart. :|
December 18th, 2005 at 11:01 pm“Then call me a complete moron.”
That pretty much goes without saying by now. LOL
“Cause I guess if you think that the religously divided anarchy, the death, blood running red in the streets, the children dying every day, no electricity, no public utilities, the anarchy, if this is what you call democracy, then you must be really, really smart. :|”
That sounds like the Demcoratic party stronghold of Detroit. LOL
December 18th, 2005 at 11:05 pmBut prove me wrong genius.
Put on your kevlar and head on over there. Wave to me on camera, that is if your arms are still attached to your body.
Oh and BTW, the Jeopardy theme music is still playing on that one, simple question that you have been running from me on now for 2 days.
Anytime you want to man up, and answer that question genius, I’m all ears.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:05 pmWorfeus, those sounds in your head require medication. I can’t help you. LOL
December 18th, 2005 at 11:06 pmWe install a dictator in Iran and call that progress.
We support and finance a dictator in Iraq to fight the opposition to the dictator we installed in Iran and call that progress.
We fund and train a fanatical bin Laden to fight the USSR and call that progress.
We arrest the dictator in Iraq and call that progress.
We call for the killing of a fanatical bin Laden, without a trial and call that progress.
We make a lot of progress.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:07 pmSee you’re a coward wwallace. A little chicken with a big fat mouth.
Prove me wrong. Show me you’re not the mealy mouthed little sissy you have shown your self to be.
Answer that ONE question.
What would you do?
December 18th, 2005 at 11:07 pmGuys, just ignore wwallace until he has reasonably good proof rather than unsubstantiated claims.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:08 pmWorfeus, calling me names does not constitute an argument.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:08 pmGuys, just ignore JoshR until he has reasonably good proof rather than unsubstantiated claims.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:09 pmWell you just called me a moron. What would you like me to call you?
But since wittle crybaby whines when he is cornered, let me repose the question so ALL can see you run from it again.
___________________________________________________________
What would you do, if the EU invaded the US to enact necessary regime change?
Understand they are benevolant, only there to help, and plan on leaving as soon as we elect a new President and Congress, from among the candidates approved by our new EU liberators.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:11 pmWhat would you do?
Now hurry up and scurry away like you did the last 4 times I asked you this in other blogs.
Run little chicken, run. Bok bok bok
December 18th, 2005 at 11:13 pmAs Rep. Murtha, who represents my county, says, we are not into nation building. The Iraqi Government should have the balls to do that themselves, not us. They have soldiers, so lets plan to leave and take care of business here. After Kosovo, we were finished and left so the victors can rebuild a country that was divided by ethnic cleansing.
Under Bush, staying is all about the oil. he loves that oil so much he bathes in it in ecstacy and thinks of it as semen.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:15 pmJeopardy music still playing wwallace
December 18th, 2005 at 11:16 pmJIMBO, so you must have opposed Clinton’s attacks of Bosnia and Kosovo, if you don’t believe in nation building.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:16 pmYou know Jimbo, it may be the oil.
But it may also be the 200 Billion that went to a company, which oddly enough got a instant no bid contract, and just happened to be the company that the Vice President was the CEO of, and is still a stockholder in and will likely be a consultant to as soon as he leaves office.
Now they will tell you, that his profits are witheld while he is the VP, but he still has the stock. Think Haliburton will be worth a few more bucks to Mr. Cheney when he gets done playing White House?
December 18th, 2005 at 11:19 pmJIMBO, so you must have opposed Clinton’s attacks of Bosnia and Kosovo, if you don’t believe in nation building.
Comment by wwallace — December 18, 2005 @ 11:16 pm
Run wwallace, run….bok bok bok
December 18th, 2005 at 11:20 pmHalliburton got no-bid contracts from Clinton.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:22 pmNot 200 Billion worth. And Clinton wasn’t their CEO.
But this is the last question or statement of yours I respond to chicken wwallace, until you answer the question you have been running from for days now.
What would you do, if the EU invaded the US to enact necessary regime change?
December 18th, 2005 at 11:25 pm
Answer that one, and we can talk some more.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:25 pmSince I answerd Worfeus’s silly question, and anyone reading this thread can clearly see that, he is obviously both a liar and an imbecile. LOL
JIMBO, many more people were murdered by Saddam Hussein than in Kosovo, thus you are an ignoramus and a hypocrite.
Republicans did not want the US to lose in Kosovo, there’s no basis for that asinine lie.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:28 pmHmm… I don’t see an answer, wwallace. Maybe I’m blind. Could you be so kind as to repost it? Thanks. :)
December 18th, 2005 at 11:31 pmSince I answerd Worfeus’s silly question, and anyone reading this thread can clearly see that, he is obviously both a liar and an imbecile. LOL
Comment by wwallace — December 18, 2005 @ 11:28 pm
wwallace you are pathetic. You tried this in the last post.
SHOW US where you answered that question.
Give me the post number.
I’m all ears.
LIAR.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:31 pmSince I answerd Worfeus’s silly question, and anyone reading this thread can clearly see that, he is obviously both a liar and an imbecile. LOL
Comment by wwallace — December 18, 2005 @ 11:28 pm
Well, I’m waiting. You just said you answered the question in this thread.
WHERE IS IT GENIUS???
December 18th, 2005 at 11:34 pmWhich number thread wwallace,
come on man, keep up. Which number thread????
December 18th, 2005 at 11:34 pmThanks Ryan.
I really am amazed at the audacity to just lie right here in a post, thinking the readers are too stupid to read up a few posts and see that he NOWWHERE addressed my question.
He did the same thing earlier and last night.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:36 pmThere’s no rational basis to support the wars in Kosovo and Bosnia but oppose the liberation of Iraq.
Democrats’ support for a military operation is inversely proportional to US national interests.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:37 pmMaybe this is the answer, maybe right wingers think we are all so dumb,that we believe a lie, even though the proof is staring us all in the face.
But hey wwallace, now’s your chance. Prove me wrong. Show us all your great answer to my question.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:37 pmWhich Post Number?
Well, hey WORFEUS, haven’t you heard? According to the White House’s current (implied, but not admitted) trend, lying is the patriotic thing to do.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:38 pmYea, which post number, wwallace?
December 18th, 2005 at 11:39 pmAint that the truth Casper.
Here wwallace. since you are slow, I’ll ask it again.
What would you do, if the EU invaded the US to enact necessary regime change?
Understand they are benevolant, only there to help, and plan on leaving as soon as we elect a new President and Congress, from among the candidates approved by our new EU liberators.
What would you do?
December 18th, 2005 at 11:39 pmOr shall we classify you as an illegal combatant and torture you to get that information? :)
December 18th, 2005 at 11:41 pmlol,
I mean, it’s a simple question isn’t it people?
Am I missing something wwallace? Is there a polysyllabic word or adjective in there that you can’t understand or something?
December 18th, 2005 at 11:42 pmSane people will wonder why Worfeus keeps asking the same question after it’s been answered several times already. LOL
December 18th, 2005 at 11:43 pmProve it.
PUT UP OR SHUT UP
December 18th, 2005 at 11:46 pmBut thank you for showing everyone in here what a lying sack of crap you are.
.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:47 pmUnlike Worfeus, I don’t lie.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:48 pmWally is desperately searching some his “right-thinking” blogs and sites to find a rebuttle to Worfeus’ question… unfortunately, he’s been spending so much time on this site, he’s a bit out of the loop on his talking points.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:48 pmSane people will wonder why Worfeus keeps asking the same question after it’s been answered several times already. LOL
Comment by wwallace — December 18, 2005 @ 11:43 pm
Actually to anyone reading, it has never been answered.
In fact, he runs from it everytime he’s asked.
Your a puss wwallace. I thought you were worth debating, but you got nothin. You must be Bob Novak.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:50 pmDuchamp, I answered his idiotic question more than once already.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:51 pmWallace is a complete tool. I can’t believe
1) He won’t answer Worfeus’ question
and
2) wallace blatantly lied by claiming he had answered the question.
Lying and dodging are not really effective strategies for getting your point across, but, what do you expect from this clown.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:51 pmRyan, you’re in rare form tonight. You’re posting some good quotes.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:51 pmCalling me names will never change the fact I answered the question, more than once.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:52 pmIf you don’t lie, the floor is yours to prove it.
Go ahead, show us from your endless wisdom where you answered my question.
If you did, then providing us with a post number should be no problem, right?
So why don’t you?
December 18th, 2005 at 11:53 pmI would say “nice try” Wally, but you’re not even trying here. You’re so old Europe.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:54 pmYou say you answered several times?
I say your a liar.
Prove me wrong.
Give us just ONE post number where you answered it.
Just ONE.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:54 pmwhy don’t you post the numbers where you answered the questio wallace.
Perhaps becuase you didn’t, jack*ss!
December 18th, 2005 at 11:54 pmCome on tough guy.
Why are you taking so long?
Just one simple post number.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:55 pmWallace,
December 18th, 2005 at 11:56 pmevery time you claim that you answered the question, you lie again. Time to go to church , buddy.
21
December 18th, 2005 at 11:56 pmLoL,
Man, I almost feel sorry for you wwallace.
21 was Jimbo’s post.
Try again genius. :D
December 18th, 2005 at 11:57 pmwwallace, I just signed on, I really would like to read that post. I have to believe that the rest of the posts are correct that you are a lying pinhead with half a brain. Does anyone know where this moron posts from? Please…answer the question, show us your balls…step up and be a man…and definately take off those panties.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:58 pmwallace has proven himself to be a fool of epic proportions. 21 was NOT YOUR POST DUMBASS.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:58 pmThere were no WMD in Kosovo, there was no imminent threat.
Clinton lied, people died.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:58 pm21, haha. wwallace was thinking of being able to drink in 12 years.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:58 pmLol, it’s almost too funny. I mean I almost want to thank him I am laughing so hard.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:00 am:D
You still have not answered the worfeus’ question. It was a hypothetical about the EU. We’re waiting.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:01 amClinton lied, people died. There was no imminent threat. There were no WMD.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:01 am21 hahahaha, laughing right there with you worfeus
December 19th, 2005 at 12:01 am#72
LOL. Yeah, ok, so did you actually learn to count? Maybe that’s the problem here, poor Wally doesn’t know how to count…or know his own name… or answer questions… or formulate convincing arguments…
Give us all a Christmas present, go read some Mack Bolland books and go play with your GI Joe dolls and come back when you actually have something to say.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:01 amI learned to read at the age of three, and it’s one thing I do very well. I can’t find an answer from “wwallace”, Neo-con stooge, to the question posed by Worfeus. Therefore, I must conclude that today’s talking points for trolls, failed to cover this subject.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:01 am21, hahah, wwallace was actually telling us how many times he’s read Superfudge.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:02 amSince I answered the question, and just copied and pasted my answer, anyone who says I didn’t at this point is either a liar, nuts, or both. LOL
December 19th, 2005 at 12:02 amwallace is a pathetic representative for the wingnuts. Can’t we get trolls in here that can make coherent arguments. This guys pathetic.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:04 amLOL. you should get that LOL looked into. It just might be a mild form of Tourette’s. LOL
December 19th, 2005 at 12:05 amHe’s leading the league, the rest are like shrub 35 IQ.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:05 amwallace… take a deep breath man. Calm down. You can do better than this man.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:05 amwwallace,
Stop saying you answered the question, and show us where.
Cut and paste your answer now. Were all ears..err….I mean eyes. :D
December 19th, 2005 at 12:06 amLol, stop wwallace, you’re killin me…..
Just fess up dude, you not only never answered the question, you can’t answer the question.
Cause that question exists in a time space dimension of consciousness, that your right winged brain just cannot go.
It’s a little place we like to call, reason.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:06 amWorfeus, can’t read. that must be his problem. LOL
December 19th, 2005 at 12:07 amSince I answered the question, and just copied and pasted my answer, anyone who says I didn’t at this point is either a liar, nuts, or both. LOL
Comment by wwallace — December 19, 2005 @ 12:02 am
ARE YOU DELUSIONAL? where ddi you supposedly past this answer
December 19th, 2005 at 12:07 amOff topic but one for ww.
A man enters a bar and orders a drink. The robot serves him a perfectly prepared cocktail, and then asks him, “What’s your IQ?”
The man replies, “150″ and the robot proceeds to make conversation about quantum physics, string theory, atomic chemistry, etc.
The customer is very impressed and thinks, “This is really cool.” He decides to test the robot. He walks out of the bar, turns around, and comes back in for another drink. Again, the robot serves him the drink and asks him, “What’s your IQ?”
The man responds, “100.”
Immediately the robot starts talking, but this time, about football, NASCAR, baseball, super models, etc.
Really impressed, the man leaves the bar and decides to give the robot one more test. He goes back in, the robot serves him and asks, “What’s your IQ?”
The man replies, “30.”
And the robot says, “So, you gonna vote for Bush again?”
December 19th, 2005 at 12:08 amObviously dimwit does not have an answer.
Otherwise why would he waste time and keystrokes telling us over an over how he has answered it, instead of simply cutting and pasting his answer.
Man if you’re the best the right has, you guys are screwed.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:09 amWhy would Worfeus ask me to cut and paste my answer, when I cut and pasted it a few minutes ago? Perhaps he needs medication. LOL
December 19th, 2005 at 12:10 amwallace. Put your jammies on and go to bed. You know you’re not supposed to be on the computer this late.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:10 amSo Worfeus asks this question: “What would you do, if the EU invaded the US to enact necessary regime change? Understand they are benevolant, only there to help, and plan on leaving as soon as we elect a new President and Congress, from among the candidates approved by our new EU liberators.”
Wally replies with this: “Clinton lied, people died. There was no imminent threat. There were no WMD.”
That’s pretty much equivalent to this: 2 + 2 = Clinton’s Fault
Bwahahahah. Folks, if you had any doubts, this should clear it up. Wally is actually a talking avocado.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:11 amDuchamp, that was not the answer I posted, you illiterate. LOL
December 19th, 2005 at 12:12 amOk, so WORFEUS is stupid.
Type into the keyboard sitting next to the hustler magazine and the half eaten bag of cheetos on your lap, the number of the post where you answered that question.
Just type the number.
Prove me wrong.
But I still say you’re nothing more than a liar.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:13 amI typed the number, and I copied and pasted the answer. LOL
December 19th, 2005 at 12:14 amOk, looks like we need to repost the question.
It’s really simple wwallace, put down the vaseline and listen up.
What would you do, if the EU invaded the US to enact necessary regime change?
Understand they are benevolant, only there to help, and plan on leaving as soon as we elect a new President and Congress, from among the candidates approved by our new EU liberators.
What would you do?
December 19th, 2005 at 12:14 amMaybe Worfeus has Alzheimers
December 19th, 2005 at 12:14 amDuchamp, that was not the answer I posted, you illiterate. LOL
Comment by wwallace — December 19, 2005 @ 12:12 am
-and I’m not going to direct you to my supposed post because this is the most attention I’ve gotten since my awesome last Boba Fett costume on Halloween.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:14 amHey don’t give me any visuals, If he has his hustler out its not cheetos.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:15 amThere is the question.
Now where is that answer genius?
December 19th, 2005 at 12:15 amYou expect too much from an avocado, Worfeus. Unless he turns himself into a bowl of guacamole, he’s completely useless.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:16 amI think there’s only two people posting, me and Worfeus/Ryan/Duchamp/Bandar/…
December 19th, 2005 at 12:18 amThat’s why Judd won’t ban him, despite the egregious violation of the Terms of Use, because then it would be just me here. LOL
December 19th, 2005 at 12:19 amLook wwallace, your a punk. A little pathetic punk. I have cleaned your pathetic clock so many times I have lost count.
If you want to prove me wrong, do it!
All you have to do is post the number of your post. But you won’t, because you can’t.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:24 am#118
December 19th, 2005 at 12:27 amRyan, those quotes you posted really put the administration (and right wing apologists’) rhetoric into perspective. It’s downright surreal. And speaking of surreal, I didn’t realize how screwed up Wally is. He’s so Dada. I try to ignore him, but this whole Bill O’Reilly schtick he’s currently pulling is so over the top. If he’s a paid troll, he must get paid by the post for his madness is prolific.
Worfeus, if you want to prove me wrong, then do it.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:27 amI already did.
I called you out. Balls in your court chump. :D
December 19th, 2005 at 12:28 amThe other poster, going by various names, is doing nothing but call me childish names. This will never turn his lies into the truth.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:29 amWorfeus, if you want to prove me wrong, then do it.
Comment by wwallace — December 19, 2005 @ 12:27 am
I know you are but what am I?
-Truly wallace is one of the great political debaters of ou time.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:29 amI called you out Worfeus, put up or shut up.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:29 amLet’s not let wwallace waste our time anymore. Three reasons to ignore him: 1.) He doesn’t own this website and can’t delete posts (or lack thereof on his part) showing that he has yet to answer our questions, 2.) He’s obviously trying to waste our time, 3.) We all have better things to do… like sleep.
Good night, folks.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:30 amcasper/worfeus/duchamp/etc… “our time” – nice touch. LOL
December 19th, 2005 at 12:32 amI think he needs a vacation,wwallace come to the west coast I’ll take you fishing…I could use some good shark bait.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:33 amLol, now’s he’s just repeating what I am saying.
Don’t cry to me wwallace.
You’re the genius that had to tell everyone in here how you answered a question you knew you never did.
All we asked for was the post number.
Instead of typing in 2 little numbers, you have posted, and posted, and posted, all kinds of excuses.
Hell you even put in a post number that wasn’t yours! What are you on drugs?
You’re stupid dude, don’t know any other way to say it.
You’re just really fu##*@!ing stupid.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:33 amAnd I’ll bet your momma’s still cryin…….
December 19th, 2005 at 12:34 amOk guys, the WORFEUS clock cleaning service is going on break.
BBL.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:35 am#129
December 19th, 2005 at 12:38 amPoor guy. I’ll resume ignoring him. I’d rather err on the side of compassion than beat up on someone who’s got such serious mental problems.
wwallace thinks repeating ‘lies’ make them truth, just like osama…
He needs to move to another site where someone will beleive him, like his fellow trolls. ww your piss poor efforts are being wasted here.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:38 amRyan
Life must be tough, the miserable soul he/she is. Drugs can help. If it is not already too late.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:45 amRyan,
I’m only a part timer here, but I will follow suit. If there is not point to make, lets not let him play.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:47 am35: Excellent, Ryan Neat, excellent. This demonstrates the likes of I-Right-I and wwallace and others of their ilk where they have obtained their brains: from the bottom of a trash can while flatworms’ parade their P.h.Ds with pride in comparison; as illustrated in my epic email. These right-wing extremists are all too obvious when they support Bush’s “my country right or wrong†or “it treasonous to question a war president.†Yet they were the first and the most tenacious to question and brand Clinton a mad dog when he went to war in Kosovo and Serbia but with Bush he was given unlimited passes. And Clinton did a better job “over there†than Bush. Neat, don’t expect these guys to see the light that wasn’t there: they are hopelessly to far gone and blind.
December 19th, 2005 at 1:13 amwwallace- It’s the opinion of this board that you are totally illiterate and misinformed without even doing research. You can’t even think about answering a simple question that WORFEUS imposed on you. If you can’t answer it, we’ll assume that you never even graduated from Kindergarten.
So get off the meds, get out of your mama’s basement and join the real world, kiddo.
December 19th, 2005 at 1:15 amSane people will wonder why Worfeus keeps asking the same question after it’s been answered several times already. LOL
Comment by wwallace — December 18, 2005 @ 11:43 pm
Typical wwallace. Claiming to have answered a question when he hasn’t. I have had the same exact experience with him before.
wwallace -same people wonder why you claim to have answered the question when it is plainly obvious you didn’t.
Unlike Worfeus, I don’t lie.
Comment by wwallace — December 18, 2005 @ 11:48 pm
Oh, but you do, wwallace. Constantly.
December 19th, 2005 at 1:26 amBAN WALLACE
December 19th, 2005 at 6:20 amWhat mission did the US army accomplish? To kill a few Iraqi’s that disagree with American values? Bush will say they made the world safer but he’ll forget to mention the increased risk that same military brings to the world when it tortures and fails to obey to international law. In Belgium we call this pompen met de kraan open, pumping with the fosset turned on?
December 19th, 2005 at 7:24 amWow … Ryan … post 35 was relevant and without a single attack (except for the low hanging fruit comment which was sort of benign) … I KNEW you could do it.
It was also extremey convincing … I have no answer except to say that political opportunism rules the day. It does seem to me that one could draw a parallel from your quotes (by the Repubs) to the many hawkish quotes by the Democrats regarding Iraq (the one’s they made before a similar political expediency/opportunism took over). Good post though … kudos to you.
December 19th, 2005 at 9:19 amWhat mission did the US army accomplish? To kill a few Iraqi’s that disagree with American values?
Even if one disagrees with the Iraq war … this comment is utter nonsense. “American values” are not in debate by either party – all agree about life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. People do disagree about whether the US is actually spreading these interests or oil interests. Does Belgium believe in these as well? I should say so … in addition, if not for those “values”, Belgium would still be part of Germany. I give credit to France for our Independence … why wouldn’t you, at least, credit the US for securing yours?
December 19th, 2005 at 9:24 amGia, you are really creepy. This is no dig, just pointing out that you are very strange in the way you hound Ryan Neat. It’s eerie to some of us here. Stick with the issues, please. The obsessive behavior is just unnecessary and simply put – creepy.
December 19th, 2005 at 5:02 pmWhy does the Right always seem to interpret anti-war messages as hate for America? Is it possible to disagree with the current war, and still love America? Maybe the dissenters strongly believe this war has little to do with national security, and love America enough to want to stop it?
This has little to do with love, or hate for America. These Rightys are so black and white, wanting to simplify complex issues.
So to you simple little children who call yourselves Republicans, these issues are much more complex than you are seeing them. If you Repubs were a little more secure with yourselves, didn’t take differing opinions so personally, didn’t fear anything that is not exactly like you are, and had an original thought, you may understand all the grey area here. It’s not a matter of either we love or hate America, or we are with with you or against you. Which is putting people in a position of either-or, and nothing in the middle.
That type of narrowminded inflexability is what we want to save America from, because we love it so much.
December 19th, 2005 at 5:21 pm“Wow … Ryan … post 35 was relevant and without a single attack (except for the low hanging fruit comment which was sort of benign) … I KNEW you could do it.” GeoMetro
And I knew you couldn’t…
That’s the difference between us, I have a clear handle on your limitations :()
December 19th, 2005 at 7:15 pm“Even if one disagrees with the Iraq war … this comment is utter nonsense. “American values†are not in debate by either party – all agree about life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.” GeoMetro
Oh but they are, because consistently republicans violate every constitutional protection, and every ‘value’ of american citizenry available. American values are fully devoid in republicans – and you fully represent that with your defense of the violations of our civil liberties in virtually every thread you post. You and your party of nazis and in your case italian fascists, do not represent american values. You are an abhorent and an unacceptable group of terrorists, murderers, torturers and hateful idiots.
December 19th, 2005 at 7:18 pmRyan, calm down. Giacomo can be debated on a higher level. Don’t fall down into the sewer with the likes of I-wrong-I and wwallace. They want you to join them. Giacomo wamts to take you on ..on a different tack. Out wit–out smart–out survive..
December 19th, 2005 at 7:34 pmJoefriday,
I’m quite calm, but thanks for your concern. I have no respect for someone who defends torturers, strip searching of children, and blatant violations of the constitution (all positions GeoMetro has taken). To have a ‘debate’, one must first be rational – and GeoMetro is not rational. His arguments are typical of the reactionary fascists that populate the reichwing. And his values are wholy unamerican…
GeoMetro doesn’t want to learn, he has too many idiotic preconceptions he’s incapable of unloading for any real learning. It’s the hard cold reality of republican partisanship. Party before country, selfish interests before american values…
December 19th, 2005 at 8:12 pmRyan, I just recently dropped in on this/ or any Blog. Have no prior history with the give or take with Giacomo. I was just trying to be fair at this point. Will read and form a better opion over time. My main point was that your intellict does not require you to be base. However, in just a few short sessions I would do the same to the Trolls. In private what is happening to our country makes my blood boil..in plublic I try to remain sane and convince the MORONS that voted for that A*s*H*o*l* that they are no different than the Germans that allowed Hitler to do what he did. We my be (most likely) facing the same thing.- The condrum, how best to educate the Lemmings and convince them DON’T DRINK THE KOOL AIDE>
December 19th, 2005 at 8:32 pmJoefriday,
I appreciate your attempt to be fair, and that’s why I responded to you (hopefully) as cordially as possible.
I give trolls the opportunity to show up as well, but GeoMetro (the 3 cylinder car that takes you no where fast) is unfortunately just another troll who’s stuck in his anti-american fascist dogma. His values are best suited to Musolini’s Italy, not american democracy.
As for your question about educating the trolls, in my experience they’re not salvagable, only those who are what one would call ‘independents’ can be reached. That’s why so many people shoot down the trolls with a variety of evidence, documentation and ‘force’ if necessary. They can’t be reached, because they are to attached to their personal delusions. Facts, figures, evidence and rational thought are unavailable to them, because they’ve constructed a ‘linguistic frame’ that permits their rational brain from processing your information. George Lakoff (a linguistic professor) does a good job of breaking this ‘framing language’ down, and how psychologically it is used by people to prevent the processing of unwanted information. Conservatives are highly dependent on ‘frames’, which is why you see them repeating the same dogma and lies over and over again. They’re ‘bound’ to their preconceptions by language, prejudice and self induced ignorance…
A sad but very clear fact.
December 19th, 2005 at 8:38 pmRyan, I agree..and yes you were very cordial. My take on some of this is that too many people mistake “Conservative” with “reblublican” and visa versa on dems. I am neither and have great distaste for both. They are both into greed and POWER. I can and do respect true Conservatives and Liberals..Note the word “True”. There are very, very few of either left. My hope is that the debate can be raised to that level..an honest and thoughtfull difference on the many problems we face. I would never say I know it all. I am always searching for other (honest) views. I am sick and tired of the “Talking Points” mentality of this country today. Kudos to you that you have the skill and time to “Stir” the pot. Once again, use your abundt gray matter to convert.
December 19th, 2005 at 9:06 pmGiacomo, Your thoughts for an undecided.. What are you about?? I am really interested. Knee jerk partisan replub, conservative, Neocon, or a gladfly??
December 19th, 2005 at 9:15 pmJoe Friday,
In defense of Ryan, not that he at all needs it, because he handles himself better than most… :) but a lot of the Neocons come here trying to convert us. They are evangelical in their political convictions as much as they are in their religious beliefs. I know this because I grew up with staunch Republican parents, and was, for a number of years, simply living the indoctrination that I had been taught.
It wasn’t an easy over night transformation for me, and it was more about being exposed to different things to realize that I wasn’t ‘right’ and everyone else was ‘wrong’. I imagine that Giacomo, like most of the Neocons here are not exposed to anything that is unlike them. It’s why it’s easy for them to come in here and think we are the anomoly. I personally don’t think we can convert them, but I do believe that other people who are on the fence do come here to see what it’s like, and it is for that reason that debating the neocons may help our cause.
Just my two cents worth, if you’re interested in another point of view. Welcome. I look forward to talking with you as well.
December 19th, 2005 at 9:48 pmGiacomo, Your thoughts for an undecided.. What are you about?? I am really interested. Knee jerk partisan replub, conservative, Neocon, or a gladfly??
I’m a conservative … not completely aligned with the repubs, but more them than the democrats. Ryan tends to be very aggressive with his posts (as you’ll see) … I come here to discuss with the rational liberals. You may not agree with some of my opinions, but I always try and delineate them intelligently and without ad hominem attacks.
December 19th, 2005 at 9:53 pmI imagine that Giacomo, like most of the Neocons here are not exposed to anything that is unlike them.
You’d be surprised … like I said before, I am from NY after all.
I personally don’t think we can convert them, but I do believe that other people who are on the fence do come here to see what it’s like, and it is for that reason that debating the neocons may help our cause.
And I’d be surprised if “conversion” was the main priority … I mean, you know I’m a Christian (and you’ve mentioned your background) but have I ever gotten preachy with you? I don’t believe so … I’m happy to just debate … besides, it strengthens ones argument to have to defend it.
JoeFriday … I usually disagree with unbelievable, but she’s one of the “fair” ones here (gregor, wayne, kindness are others)
December 19th, 2005 at 9:59 pm1) Gia, you are really creepy. This is no dig, just pointing out that you are very strange in the way you hound Ryan Neat.
2) And I knew you couldn’t…
That’s the difference between us, I have a clear handle on your limitations :()
Man … I say something nice and this is the response. I can’t win for losing … sheesh.
December 19th, 2005 at 10:01 pmFair start. I consider myself a conservative but, most that know me think I am a liberal. Why?, I think the ACLU is a “consevative” institution. They may hate who they repersent but are defending “our” rights. So, people think I am a liberal. I live in Texas..did you know that ex- Senator Phil Grahm lauds the ALCU? Where does that fit in the “talking points” ? Should the Constitution be amended to 1) ban the burning of the flag? I say no. 2) make English the official langague..NO 3) ban gay marriage..no etc.. Conservatives want to keep it like it is..(to conserve..not change).. replublicans want to change these things to suck-up to their BASE.. religous wacks who want this country to be a Christan run Taliban./. what say you??
December 19th, 2005 at 10:53 pm#171
You’d be surprised … like I said before, I am from NY after all.
My entire family is from Northern New Jersey (right off the boat) and yet they were still racists who only hung out with other white, Catholic, straight people. My dad’s family was appalled when he didn’t marry an Italian girl. Someone can live in New York and still isolate him or herself from others who are different.
In fact, I worked with a guy in California who’d grown up in LA and was the biggest biggot I’d ever met. And LA is just as diverse as NYC. From my experience, it’s the lack of exposure to diversity that generates a lot of the hate and misunderstanding.
I mean, you know I’m a Christian (and you’ve mentioned your background) but have I ever gotten preachy with you?
I guess you can’t if you can’t even write the word Atheist :)
I had a woman in San Francisco tell me she didn’t believe in Atheism, and tried to convert me. That was funny. I think she had a difficult time reconciling the fact that I wasn’t evil.
Giacomo, I’m not sure why you’re here, but I do believe there is an element of your side wanting to convince people that you’re right. It’s built into the Christian religion to go forth and spread the word. And because your religion is your culture, it spills into the other aspects of your beliefs. Like I said, I know this because I lived it. And when I was living it I didn’t know I was doing it, because I had nothing to compare it to. When I did start to see it, the whole system crumbled for me, and now – well I’m trying to get the right side to understand that we don’t care if you are who you are (there is no war on christmas) – but don’t try to force it on those of us who don’t want it. We have the right to think for ourselves and reject it. That’s my message. But I came here to meet other liberals and grow in my own beliefs. It’s funny how many people have a problem with that.
December 20th, 2005 at 8:58 amBush is a smart man. You are A MORON . iF WE LEAVE iRAQ WILL TURN INTO A TERRERIST sTATE.aND THEY WILL HAVE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN OIL MONEY TO KILL THOUSANSDS OF PEOPLE. BUT SOME IDIOT LIKE YOU REALLY COULD CARE LESS BECAUSE YOU HAVE A ONE TRAKE MIND. YOU D’ONT CARE HOW MANY SOLDIERS ARE KILLED. PEOPLE LIKE YOU NEED TO BE SITTING IN FRONT OF VIDEO AND FEEL WHAT ITS LIKE TO HAVE YOUR SAWWED OFF. YOU ARE A GREAT AMERICAN
\SINGNED RAL AND I HAVE TWO CHILDREN IN THE WAR
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