“A federal judge ruled Tuesday
By on Dec 20th, 2005 at 11:16 am
“A federal judge ruled Tuesday
that the ‘intelligent design’ explanation for the origin of life cannot be taught in biology classes in a Pennsylvania public school district.” Judge’s ruling here.
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I’m sure Gonzalez will say that Congress’ authorization to use force also supported teaching ID in science classes.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:21 amI say “No ID”, you say “activist judge”. I say “separation of Church and state”, you say “religious discrimination”. I say “ID is not science”, you say “ID doesn’t have be a science, but it is, even though I can’t show how”….here come the FIGHTS!
This will enrage the right. Good. Let’s show them how ridiculous their attempts at taking over this country have become.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:21 amNo hemlock for me thanks…
December 20th, 2005 at 11:21 amFinally some actual “intelligence!”
December 20th, 2005 at 11:23 amGood, this means PA won’t be able to challenge Kansas next year for the coveted title of “Most backwards state”
December 20th, 2005 at 11:24 amU.S. District Judge John E. Jones III, thank you for doing your job. Prepare to be slimed by the religious right.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:29 amNow that John Jones elected himself to decide what schools can and cannot teach, the right will have more ammo to point out that the far left is winning the culture war. AND that’s a good thing. You are most vulnerable when you are winning.
After we get the Courts out of the left’s bloody hands, where will liberals go when they don’t get their way at the poll. You will have nothing.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:32 amMakes me proud to be from the state of Pennsylvania. :)
December 20th, 2005 at 11:35 amHey, #7–That judge you just slammed…well..not sure how you’ll take this…but…yeah…he was appointed by YOUR PRESIDENT G. BUSH. Your Top Dog put this man on the bench in 2002. He’ YOUR JUDGE. CONSERVATIVE. REPUBLICAN.
So he’s surely not “left”. So quit making this sh!t up.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:35 amThis is happy news. :) I respect religious thought and thoery, but i don’t want students subjected to it as if it were the truth or verifiable.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:38 amLet ‘em teach it in sociology or comparative religions classes. Not biology.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:39 amAhhh, yes there is a god. No, wait, there is no god?
December 20th, 2005 at 11:46 amChildren’s book section Note:File Intelligent Design between, “Horton Hears a Who” and “Jemimah Puddleduck”.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:46 am#13,
Thanks for the laugh!
And Punchy,
Good job of the Troll KO!!
I used to sequence DNA.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:49 amWe sequenced it along with the mouse genome because they were so alike.
These righties are soooo ill informed.
#7
The school board in Dover, PA that advocated ID was thrown out by the voters over a month ago. The people who believe in seperating religion and science have won with both the voting booths and the judiciary.
This part of PA seems to be fairly conservative, it stretches things to call the voters “liberal”. The voters were not going to let their school be hijacked by extreme religious fanatics.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:50 am#7 – All the elected officials who tried to push this ID stuff as science(i.e. the school board) were booted out of office. Well, all but one. The people that area were so embarrassed by this. Don’t you remember Pat Robertson’s fatwa against Dover PA? Looks like you lost this one on all fronts.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:52 am#7 – I know your boy George W thinks the Constitution is just a piece of paper, but most of us take it seriously and enjoy its protestions. Judge Jones is following the Constitution, namely the separation of church and state. If the “far left” lose our rights, you will lose yours, too.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:52 am*protections* not protestions. Ugh.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:52 amZoo,
December 20th, 2005 at 11:53 amcorrection: A G*ddamn piece of paper…!
Beat me to it Skeptic
December 20th, 2005 at 11:54 amAnd let us not forget to give praise to the Flying Spaghetti Monster for this triumph!
http://www.venganza.org (for those who don’t know what I’m talking about)
December 20th, 2005 at 12:01 pmIn addition to the fact that GWB nominated Judge Jones, folks might be interested in the following statement by notrious commie pinko Rick Santorum:
SANTORUM APPLAUDS SENATE CONFIRMATION OF JOHN E. JONES AS U.S. DISTRICT JUDGE
July 29, 2002
Washington DC – U.S. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA), Chairman of the Senate Republican Conference, today applauded the Senate for unanimously confirming John E. Jones III as a U.S. District Judge for the Middle District of Pennsylvania.
“I want to congratulate John and his family on the Senate’s vote confirming him as a U.S. District Judge in the Middle District of Pennsylvania,†said Senator Santorum. “I am extremely proud that we have now confirmed and filled all vacancies in the Middle District, and I know that Mr. Jones is well equipped and deserving of such a position.â€
December 20th, 2005 at 12:02 pmonce again the leftist liberal judge theory gets blown out of the water.
December 20th, 2005 at 12:06 pm#19 – I stand corrected, True Blue!
December 20th, 2005 at 12:08 pmPeople here know I’m such a delicate flower that I don’t use such language.
Ok, I just made myself sick.
Another all out attack on Christmas. Can’t wait to find out what BO says.
December 20th, 2005 at 12:09 pmDosnt matter what you teach, God and Freedom Have nothing in Common.
December 20th, 2005 at 12:20 pmGod Hates your Freedom!
The law rules . We ae a country of laws , not of doma spouted by religious freaks ,who wish for ignorance to all .
December 20th, 2005 at 12:20 pmFascism of another color is still fascism.
December 20th, 2005 at 12:22 pm
December 20th, 2005 at 12:22 pm
People Die to be Free! Free of What???
December 20th, 2005 at 12:24 pmYou are not free of Laws are You? then, you are not free.
I loved this part of the judge’s ruling (it’s on pages 138 and 139 – yes, I read the document)
“Those who disagree with our holding will likely mark it as the product of an activist judge. If so, they will have erred as this is manifestly not an activist Court. Rather, this case came to us as the result of the activism of an ill-informed faction on a school board, aided by a national public interest law firm eager to find aconstitutional testcase on ID who in combination drove the Board to adopt imprudent and ultimately unconstitutional policy. The breathtaking inanity of the Board’s decision is evident when considered against the factual backdrop which has now been fully revealed through this trial. The students, parents, and teachers of the Dover Area School District deserved better than to be dragged into this legal maelstrom, with its resulting utter waste of monetary and personal resources.”
Good judge…
December 20th, 2005 at 12:25 pmYou Are Free to Be RICH
December 20th, 2005 at 12:25 pmthank god for this judge!
December 20th, 2005 at 12:25 pmOh Yea, Pursuit of LIFE!
December 20th, 2005 at 12:26 pm??????????????????????? But Life must be sacrifised for liberties,therefore,conflicting!
Magnitude 5.0 – NEAR THE COAST OF ECUADOR
December 20th, 2005 at 12:33 pm2005 December 20 16:34:54 UTC
Preliminary Earthquake Report
U.S. Geological Survey, National Earthquake Information Center
World Data Center for Seismology, Denver
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/recenteqsww/index.html
Damn liberals and your requirements to teach science in science class!
December 20th, 2005 at 12:36 pmNoFreedom;
December 20th, 2005 at 12:37 pmI don’t understand the last set of posts that came out under your name. Could you provide a simple synopsis, and also explain the relevance to the topic under discussion?
Thank you.
I think nofreedom is also Hot Tip.
December 20th, 2005 at 12:42 pmSkeptic, certainly. God And Freedom, Have “NOTHING” in Common.
December 20th, 2005 at 12:42 pmYou are free, BUT, Keep my Commandments.
What is free about that?
Absolutely nothing.
true, you are FREE to Worship. But, that is Not one of the Commandments.
God never said anything about WORSHIPPING Him!
He is a Communist for Crying outloud.(King of Kings).
of course there is a God, no dispute about it!
December 20th, 2005 at 12:45 pmBUT
God And FREEDOM?????or should i say(GOD AND EVIL)?
#31
Being a nice guy does not mean that you have to be a doormat. I love when justice defends itself so eloquently with true intelligent design (pun intended :).
December 20th, 2005 at 12:45 pmI hope the judge made the school board members pay court costs- out of their pockets, not with town funds. But in a way it is a good lesson to the people of Dover to be more vigilant as to who is on the school board. Now they realize that an activist school board costs them money.
December 20th, 2005 at 12:45 pm#38 You’re right – he is. He is also sarcasm impared association and God.
December 20th, 2005 at 12:46 pmThey should pass a Law that You CANNOT TEACH
December 20th, 2005 at 12:46 pm
#40
of course there is a God, no dispute about it!
BUT
God And FREEDOM?????or should i say(GOD AND EVIL)?
Comment by nofreedom! — December 20, 2005 @ 12:45 pm
Oh, there is dispute about it. It’s why you live in a country where there is a seperatation of church and state. Even religions can’t agree about god. And it shouldn’t be insinuated in Science classes.
December 20th, 2005 at 12:48 pmnofreedom!,sarcasm-impaired ASSOCIATION, A REAL FATHER!,
December 20th, 2005 at 12:49 pmArmy Vet, BUSH,
#46
Why the need for so many identities? Isn’t that deceptive… I thought you were a bastion for honesty???
December 20th, 2005 at 12:50 pmpoint is , nothing is really ever free but death
December 20th, 2005 at 12:50 pm#48
Maybe… but I think there are more effective ways of communicating that. Picking one persona would be a good start. And presenting some facts rather than opinions is another. I think you have a valid argument. Just need a valid method of communication to support it.
December 20th, 2005 at 12:53 pmI thought you were a bastion for honesty???
December 20th, 2005 at 12:53 pmmoahahahahaaaaaa. Are You?????
moaaahaahaaaaaa.
and what the hell in tarnation does bastion , anyways,. Are you calling me Names?(Sounds like Bastard!)
hows this for a name?
December 20th, 2005 at 12:55 pmNoFreedom;
December 20th, 2005 at 12:57 pmThank you for making the attempt at a synopsis. I still am not clear about your thesis, but we might be using such different definitions of the same words and such different viewpoints of the same world that we will never understand each other.
God and Freedom do not seem incompatible. God might have give 10 commands, but no one is forced to obey them. Other laws like gravity are inescapable and undeniable.
my valid argument. ? i,m not so sure I want to Sacrifise my or my families life for someone elses freedoms.
December 20th, 2005 at 12:57 pmI Am Sure I am not Ready to Make that Sacrifise!
Point Blank!
That there gosh dern aktivest judge is messin’ up thangs. I dont come from no monkey, I’m more ‘telligent, them monkeys aint got nothin’ I don’t ‘ave.
December 20th, 2005 at 12:57 pmBUT, IF YOU ARE WILLING TO GO TO WAR TO DEFEND MY FREEDOMS???
December 20th, 2005 at 12:59 pmBE MY GUEST,BUT!, DO NOT SAY I ASKED YOU TOO!
I VOTED FOR KERRY!
For Truth ,
December 20th, 2005 at 1:02 pmMOses wasnt too smart niether, but, God chose him anyways!
Country Bumpkins are Peacefull people.
God has given everyone freewill. People do and think as they please, even if they will die for it.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:02 pmFor Truth,
December 20th, 2005 at 1:04 pmWrong.
God has NOT given everyone freewill
People in China, Cuba, Iran, N,korea, just to name a few.
nofreedom!, that’s not true, those people do have free will. they can decide what, and how the act in relationship to their conditions, their families and themselves. jesus lived in a oppressive regime as well, are you retarded enough to believe that he had no free will in his acts? fool!
December 20th, 2005 at 1:05 pmGod has NOT given everyone freewill. THats why There Must be LAWS.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:05 pmexample: Right to LIFE. The Baby has no Freewill, therefore, Someone else must speak up for the UNBORN!
Gee, no Intelligent Design? I gues getting the teaching that the world is really resting on the back of a giant turtle crawling through the universe is not gonna fly either.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:06 pmsuit yourselves, believe what you want, but this war in afganistan and Iraq? Bush said it was for Liberty and Freedom! and also WMDS.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:07 pmwhat ever are you gonna believe?
#59
Those people have freewill, they choose the consequences if they excercise freewill. If I thought my life would be full of torture, or death, I might restrain my freewill, but I would still have it. At anytime we can do whatever we choose, but we also choose the consequences.
Your simple mindedness is consisent with your views.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:10 pm#50 Seriously, a dictionary doesn’t cost that much… you can even use http://www.dictionary.com for free.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:13 pm#51
hows this for a name?
Comment by callmewhateveryouwant — December 20, 2005 @ 12:55 pm
It’s more on target to the reality of it…
December 20th, 2005 at 1:13 pm#56
I work in rural Arizona as a professional mental health counselor, for 10 years now. The majority of country bumkins are ignorant, dysfunctional, and abusive. It’s well known in the mental health community that small towns have extremely high rates of dysfunction. It goes undetected due to the people being removed from society, and the “smallness” of these towns protecting themselves.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:14 pmI liked the part where the judge points out that the theory of evolution does not conflict with Christian teaching — a point that doesn’t get made often enough.
But here’s an important story everyone should read:
December 20th, 2005 at 1:14 pmActivist Judge cancels Christmas
nofreedom is to this blog what static is to radio. You suck!YOU are boring! go read your BIBLE idiot and take up space somewhere else.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:16 pmMy comment in #63 was meant for #58.
nofreedom is a fool.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:16 pm#60
God has NOT given everyone freewill. THats why There Must be LAWS.
example: Right to LIFE. The Baby has no Freewill, therefore, Someone else must speak up for the UNBORN!
Comment by nofreedom! — December 20, 2005 @ 1:05 pm
And who speaks for that chicken or cow you had for dinner last night?
Hitler’s mother wanted an abortion, but was denied. Don’t you think having let her would have been better for teh world? Life does not begin at conception, it begins at birth. I dare you to go read your Bible and see what it has to say on abortion(nothing). And if anything it considers that life begins with BREATH…
December 20th, 2005 at 1:17 pmIt’s well known in the mental health community that small towns have extremely high rates of dysfunction. It goes undetected due to the people being removed from society, and the “smallness†of these towns protecting themselves.
Comment by For Truth — December 20, 2005 @ 1:14 pm
I am interested in learning more on this subject. Do you have links to web sites with more information? (Statistics, figures, percentages, etc.)
December 20th, 2005 at 1:18 pmWell, Bush and the Republicans started TWO FRONT WARS!
December 20th, 2005 at 1:18 pmWHY? FREEDOM,WMDs,TERRORISTS, ETC ETC …
Go Figure. the Country bumpkins didnt ask for war, it was forced upon them!
This just an island of sanity in a sea of theocratic right-wing lunacy.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:19 pmby Bush!
December 20th, 2005 at 1:19 pmforced to be free is NOT Freedom at all.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:20 pmChurches for example, Want you to go to church. Why?
December 20th, 2005 at 1:21 pmwhat is their propaganda? is it the money? Why would Churches want so many people to attend their services, think about that.
MONEY!
December 20th, 2005 at 1:22 pmMoney can be the root to all evil. people walk in to a convience store and rob the clerk on duty for the silliest things. cigerettes, beer, money, etc…
December 20th, 2005 at 1:24 pmthe haves and have nots. what does afganistan and iraq have that someone so desparately wants that they would be willing to start a war for? oil!
December 20th, 2005 at 1:25 pmNot freedom. well, yes, once we are in there country, we are free to tap into the oil fields, . ?
December 20th, 2005 at 1:26 pmits pure greed corruporation lies, hatred invious.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:28 pmEbenezer Scrooge: Information From Answers.com
generous?? go to iraq or afagnistan and take some pictures. show me how generous americans are.(Missouri, SHOW ME STATE)
December 20th, 2005 at 1:30 pmI know better. I was OVERTHERE. AND NO, We ARE NOT Generous.
For Truth,
small towns also have a higher rate of crime per capita. it’s yet another ‘dirty little secret’ of the ‘red state’ world.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:30 pmThats another propaganda lie to say we are a generous nation.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:31 pmChurches for example, Want you to go to church. Why?
what is their propaganda? is it the money? Why would Churches want so many people to attend their services, think about that.
Comment by nofreedom! — December 20, 2005 @ 1:21 pm
It is part of the Christian religion to ’spread the word’. And it’s part of the instilled neurosis to want to be ‘right’. Do you actually read the Bible you spout, or just cut and paste from it at will?
December 20th, 2005 at 1:34 pm#83
For Truth,
small towns also have a higher rate of crime per capita. it’s yet another ‘dirty little secret’ of the ‘red state’ world.
Comment by Ryan Neat — December 20, 2005 @ 1:30 pm
And unfortunately, a lot of it is incest and rape…
December 20th, 2005 at 1:36 pmSmall towns Also have those super rich and super poor people. allways have ever since america was discovered. why do you think america was over ran by europe after comlumbus made (HIS)discovery?
December 20th, 2005 at 1:36 pmbecause columbus took back GOLD To the Queen.
#85. Before you can Spread the Word, You must Be like Jesus.”Sell EVERYTHING You have, GIVE IT TO THE POOR” ‘THEN’
December 20th, 2005 at 1:38 pmCome follow me. you cannot be a “Do as I say, not, as I do Preacher” it dosn,t work!
And, to Spread the Word dosnt mean only ONE Word”Freedom”.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:39 pmWhat words are the Churches spreading? do you know?
December 20th, 2005 at 1:41 pmare the churches spreading the words of Jesus? no. they make up their own version of the bible.
#85
December 20th, 2005 at 1:42 pmDo CHURCHES actually read the Bible THEY spout, or just cut and paste from it at will?
Think about that.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:42 pmgotta go. later.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:43 pmRepublicans prove that there is no intelligent design :()
December 20th, 2005 at 1:48 pmIt’s well known in the mental health community that small towns have extremely high rates of dysfunction.
Comment by For Truth — December 20, 2005 @ 1:14 pm
small towns also have a higher rate of crime per capita.
Comment by Ryan Neat — December 20, 2005 @ 1:30 pm
Does anyone have more information on this? Links to web sites, etc.?
I always hear about how small towns are peaceful and neighbourly but my own unscientific, anecdotal experience tells me otherwise. It would be nice to have a confirmation either way.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:48 pmAnd who speaks for that chicken or cow you had for dinner last night?
Hitler’s mother wanted an abortion, but was denied. Don’t you think having let her would have been better for teh world? Life does not begin at conception, it begins at birth. I dare you to go read your Bible and see what it has to say on abortion(nothing). And if anything it considers that life begins with BREATH…
Comment by unbelievable — December 20, 2005 @ 1:17 pm
It’s well known in the mental health community that small towns have extremely high rates of dysfunction. It goes undetected due to the people being removed from society, and the “smallness†of these towns protecting themselves.
Comment by For Truth — December 20, 2005 @ 1:14 pm
I am interested in learning more on this subject. Do you have links to web sites with more information? (Statistics, figures, percentages, etc.)
Comment by Gregor Samsa
December 20th, 2005 at 1:54 pmGregor,
I know this about small towns because of my personal and professional experiences, and talking about it with my colleagues. Small town dysfunction goes mostly undetected in a formal capacity, due to these small circles of people protecting each other. Also, when your way out in the middle of nowhere, crimes mostly go unaddressed, and if the Sherrif does actually make it out there, everyone says nothing happened. With no formal detection, there really is no data on the matter. So it’s easy to say I cannot “prove” it. However this is my experience, I call it like I see it.
(Some country bumkins are extremely good people, which I am good friends with. They are Republican, but the old fashion Republican, and don’t agree with everything right now.)
December 20th, 2005 at 2:00 pmFor Truth, I believe you -I was looking for material for my own future reference. But thanks anyway, I appreciate your post.
LITF -what in the world are you trying to say? Do you have a point?
December 20th, 2005 at 2:15 pm#98
December 20th, 2005 at 2:18 pmuse google search
News results for small towns also have a higher rate of crime per capita – View today’s top stories
December 20th, 2005 at 2:19 pmCorrection: Dec. 13 Hannibal Crime Story – Wired News – Dec 16, 2005
http://news.google.com/news?q=small+towns+also+have+a+higher+rate+of+crime+per+capita&hl=en&lr=&rls=GWYA,GWYA:2005-03,GWYA:en&sa=N&tab=nn&oi=newsr
Map & Graph: Countries by Crime > Murders (per capita)
December 20th, 2005 at 2:21 pmhttp://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_cap
Uchenna
December 20th, 2005 at 2:23 pm2005-11-04 19:04:32 I have found all of this information interesting. I also notice that many of the people on this website do not understand the difference between the number of murders in a country and the murder rate. I was discussing with my friend, who is Jamaican, that Jamaica has the 3rd highest murder rate in the world, and she disagreed. The country is 1/3 the size of New York City, but has almost 3 times the number of murders. People wonder why countries like Sierra Leone and other African countries are not included, but I guess political warfare casualties are not included, otherwise the top 3-4 countries would all be African countries.
all of this is on google search allready
December 20th, 2005 at 2:24 pmLITF,
yeah, I know how to use google -thanks for the links. As I said before, I was looking for reference material recommended by someone who works in the mental health field in small communities in the US.
December 20th, 2005 at 2:30 pmGregor,
I’ll dig some up. I know that meth has fueled much of the increase in crime, and that crime against ‘minorities’ is much higher in rural areas than in urban areas. I also understand that the crime by ‘known’ individuals versus ‘random’ crime is much higher in rural areas, which does point to the ‘family dysfunction’ that For Truth discussed.
When I have time later today, I’ll go see what I can dig up for you.
December 20th, 2005 at 2:42 pmID is for those who can’t figure crap out for themselves. I always hated those who didn’t care to think. That’s why I gave up church and organized religion when I was young, they never had any answers that were remotely plausible. You can’t tell children where we all came from if you don’t know.
Please, let our children ask the hard questions, hell, maybe they will figure it out. Telling kids “this is how it is, I know it doesn’t make sense, but don’t think any further, just have faith” is making us a dumber nation. Just look at the lack of scientists we are producing. Get your goofy head out of the bible, which was written by a bunch of yahoo men, and THINK for yourself. How are we ever going to progress?
Does anyone still believe the bible was written by God anyway? Good grief.
December 20th, 2005 at 4:17 pm#106
have you heard of Institute For Creation Research? These ’scientists’ actually try to prove the literal translation of the bible (not sure which version) through geological study. It’s laughable at best, dangerous at worst. They are trying to get ID in the classrooms along side Evolution.
Here’s a link to a debate between one of tehir ’scientists’ and an actual geologist (it’s a riot). Actual debate starts below the lengthy introduction.
http://www.atheists.org/evolution/morrisdebate.html
December 20th, 2005 at 5:25 pmIraqis Glad 2005 Over, Dim Hopes for 2006
*Inter Press Service*
Dahr Jamail and Arkan Hamed
*BAGHDAD, Dec 20 (IPS) – Despite the parliamentary elections last week
and temporary ease in violence, Iraqis remain bitter about the outgoing
year, and sceptical of 2006.*
“As a doctor I usually travel daily from home to college,” said Um
Feras, a doctor of physics at Baghdad University who asked that her last
name be changed for her protection. “2005 was a terrible year, and now
it has become unacceptable for me to leave my house to go teach due to
the troops, who always where sunglasses even on gloomy days, aiming
their rifles at everyone like they are gangsters.”
The majority of Iraqis in Baghdad now fear the security forces, as
dozens of people each week are “disappeared” by police and soldiers
around the city and new torture chambers have been discovered recently.
Dr. Feras told IPS that the daily chaos on the streets of Baghdad, such
as closed roads and bridges, always caused her to be late, as well as
most of her students.
“Nothing is good in Iraq now,” said the doctor. “Torture, detained
friends, pillaging of houses, seeing neighbors suffering from poverty,
no electricity, no water and gun fights everywhere. We have no relief
from this suffering now.”
Electricity in Baghdad remains far below pre-war levels, with most
houses enjoying 3-5 hours per day. Meanwhile, oil exports in December
have sunk to a two-year low while up to 22 percent of the 21 billion
dollar set aside by the U.S. government for reconstruction projects in
Iraq has been diverted to security, according to Dan Speckhard, the
director of the Iraq reconstruction management office, who made the
announcement to reporters earlier this month.
Asked about her hopes and expectations for 2006, the doctor says: “I
only want a normal life far away from the interests of those bastards
who invaded our country. I don’t care about the elections and politics
and the new political parties because these are just a small part of the
strategy of the invaders.”
The doctor began to cry then added: “My dream for the coming year is
that the invaders pull out, we have Iraqis who love one another to
govern Iraq, we build something related to civilization and have
emotions towards our land and lives in order to get back to the
situation where each of us loves the other and we feel the good will of
God.”
She paused for reflection before saying, “But I can’t say this will happen.”
Other Iraqis, like 40 year-old leather worker Ismael Mohammed feel
similarly.
“2005 was worse than 2004 because the coalition forces are still
handling everything tightly in their hands and nothing has changed
except the faces of the governors,” he told IPS in Baghdad, “They are
trying to get everything they can from Iraq, meanwhile financially it is
getting worse, fuel [availability] is worse and the roads are worse.”
His feelings about the infrastructure are common around Baghdad, as Iraq
is suffering an unemployment rate of over 50 percent, oil exports remain
below pre-war levels, and the infrastructure remains in shambles amidst
the broken promises of the Bush Administration.
“Democracy? Where is our democracy?” asked Mohammed who said his best
day of 2005 was when one of his cousins was released from Abu Ghraib,
“Freedom? People shout with no one to hear. Everything goes with a bribe
now. You want to be a professor-easy, just give me the money and you are
a professor.”
Mohammed told IPS he remains sad and perplexed as to why his cousin was
recently killed. “We are Shia. Yet he was killed.”
And he asks: “Who profits from this constitution because we already had
one? Who is profiting from all of this? Iraqi leather used to be the
best all over the Middle East, but now it even seems as though the rain
has stopped falling in Iraq, as my trade has stopped growing. Now we
even have to import leather!”
According to the Institute for Policy Studies, a Washington-based think
tank, the value of Halliburton stock, U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney’s
old military company to which he still has financial ties, has increased
138 percent since March 2003. Halliburton has been awarded at least 10
billion dollar in contracts for their operations in Iraq.
Meanwhile, U.S. citizens aren’t benefiting from the occupation either.
The average monthly cost of the Iraq war for the U.S. is 5.6 billion
dollar for a total of over 225 billion dollar thus far, pushing their
national debt over 8 trillion dollar, according to the U.S. Department
of Treasury. For 2006, Mohammed voiced the dreams of many Iraqis.
“To get rid of the invaders and have God give back blessings to the
people of Iraq,” Mohammed told IPS. “We want good people in positions of
authority who will compensate Iraqis who have suffered. I would like to
see Iraqis work as one unit, putting the good of the country ahead of
divisions between them and to go on dealing as humans.”
Mohammed added: “We need a lot of work to obtain true sovereignty and to
December 20th, 2005 at 9:54 pmcure the problems brought by the invaders, as independence isn’t so easy
that we can get it in one year. Democracy cannot be given as simple as
that; we have to work hard for it and educate people to get it.”http://dahrjamailiraq.com/index.php
I have to ask this One simple Question.
December 20th, 2005 at 10:09 pmHow did All the Fossils and SEA Shells get all over on DRY Land?
I,ve heard seashells have been discovered as high up as Mt Everest.
How did That happen?
Please, this is a serious question for serious debate only.
#109
Ever hear of techtonics?
I’ll be happy to refute ‘the flood’ putting them there tomorrow. It was physically impossible. Serious debate based on historical geography, I promise.
December 20th, 2005 at 10:27 pmHow did All the Fossils and SEA Shells get all over on DRY Land?
I,ve heard seashells have been discovered as high up as Mt Everest.
How did That happen?
Please, this is a serious question for serious debate only.
Comment by nofreedom! — December 20, 2005 @ 10:09 pm
Good thing you said this is a serious question, otherwise I would think you were being a troll.
That phenomena has been long observed and explained. Unbelievable is right in that the Plate Tectonics Theory explains very well the presence of marine fossils at high altitudes.
For a quick reading, check here, and here
I hate to disappoint you, but there is not much room for a debate on this one.
December 20th, 2005 at 10:57 pmYea, tectonic plates. what does that have to do with how the seashells got on dry land?
December 20th, 2005 at 10:57 pmoops, sorry . let me read the tectonic theory first.
December 20th, 2005 at 10:59 pmok, i read it. Now, What does that have to do as to how in the world did all those seashells cover dry land?
December 20th, 2005 at 11:02 pmoops again. sorry. didnt read the second part.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:05 pmOther evidence, such as fossilized tracks and burrows of marine organisms, show that the region was once under the sea. Seashells are not found in sediments that were not formerly covered by sea.
so i guess that flood thing IS just a story.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:07 pmHey wait a minute. someones trying to trick me here.
read this, then,
Floods erode mountains and deposit their sediments in valleys. then this.
Seashells are not found in sediments that were not formerly covered by sea.
so how did the sediments get from the top of the mountain to the valley without ever touching water?
December 20th, 2005 at 11:13 pmplus, the floods had to come from the ocean(saltwater mammel). what kind of floods were they ? the floods had to be in the valley.
this dosnt make sense.
are they saying no seashells have been discovered in valleys?
December 20th, 2005 at 11:16 pmThanks for the quick reading Gregor. I added it to my Favorites.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:18 pmHey, Mountains Existed Before the Great Flood. anyone with commonsense knows that.
The problem of mountain formation has been solved, and a flood had no part in the solution.
there could have been a great flood . but thats irrevelent to the mountains existance.
i agree that the flood had nothing to do with mountains. the mountains existed before the great flood anyway. supposedly , Moses,s Ark laid rest on top of a mountain.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:24 pmNow Im really confused. are they just trying to debunk the great flood as a myth?
December 20th, 2005 at 11:25 pmok. now somewhere somehow we are led to believe that there were no mountains BEFORE the Great flood. this is false. mountain were formed before animals were created IAW the Bible.
December 21st, 2005 at 12:36 amFatc 1: 1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Fact 2: 9 ¶ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
fact 3:
20 ¶ And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
there is a God, but, not a free / God.
December 21st, 2005 at 12:48 amNow Im really confused. are they just trying to debunk the great flood as a myth?
Comment by nofreedom! — December 20, 2005 @ 11:25 pm
There is no evidence that a Great Flood -as described in the Bible- ever happened. As a matter of fact, there are too many physical problems to solve if it had happened:
Problems with a Global Flood
Not to mention the fact that practically every other culture had/has a flood story:
Flood Stories from Around the World
But all this will only be a problem if you want to read the Bible literally. In that case, there are enough inconsistencies with the Biblical account to make your head explode.
For a Christian perspective on Bible literalism and inerrancy, as well as political issues, check The
December 21st, 2005 at 12:50 amSkeptical Review Online
Thanks again Gregor.
December 21st, 2005 at 1:00 amby the way, what is your take on “Freedom”? any revelance to ID?
My reply won’t post…
December 21st, 2005 at 1:11 amwhat is your take on “Freedom”? any revelance to ID?
Comment by nofreedom! — December 21, 2005 @ 1:00 am
One last time:
I think everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts.
December 21st, 2005 at 1:13 amIn other words: You are free to have whatever belief you want, but don’t ask me to close my eyes, ask me to believe evolution does not happen, and pretend ID is a theory as valid as the theory of evolution.
December 21st, 2005 at 1:13 amOops! Seems like my response did post after all.
My apologies for the duplicate comments -didn’t meant to spam.
December 21st, 2005 at 1:18 amHere are a few more flood facts for you…
Not all mountains were raised from the ocean into mountains like Mt. Everest, which is still growing at approximately 1/2″ per year. Some were volcanic in nature. This volcanic production of mountains is how Mt. Ararat in Turkey came into being. Sometimes volcanoes will carry fossils in the lava, which in time with wind and water erosion, will be carried by rain rivulets into valleys. Sometimes glaciers deposit them there as well.
But, back to MT. Ararat. At the alledged time of the flood which supposedly occured about 3,000 years ago, Creationistis claim that it was 10,000 high. It’s currently about 15,000. Giving creationists the benefit of the doubt, 10,000 feet of elevation is almost 2 miles. In order to flood that peak over the course of 40 days and 40 nights, there would have to be 11.5′ of rainfall per hour!!! There’s just not that capacity on our system. But, once again, if this were to occur, the erosional effects on the plaent would have been a serius destruction of all living things, including the removal of many layers of earth. But geology shows that this is not what remains. We have very clear and distinct layers of sedimendary deposits around the world that do not mix the ages of life. I hiked into the Grand Canyon a few years ago and you can see, as you descend, the strata. This would not be the case if there had been a flood.
There’s much, much more, but I think this gives you an idea, combined with what Gregor gave you to understand that the Flood was just a story. Even the ark itself wasn’t realistically possible… or the ability for 3 couples to repopulate the world to our current 6.3 billion in 3,000 years… or the ability for all those animlas to distribute themselves across the world after landing on Mt. Ararat – especially the flightless birds of Australia.
As for the Bible, well, after studying Greek and Roman mythology in college, I realized that the Bible is just Judeo-Christian mytholigy as well. It was written by humans who thought the earth was flat (hence the sentance in Revelations about the four corners of the earth).
No one has any proof at this point that there is a god. It’s a matter of blind faith. Therfore you can’t claim that there is one and excpect everyone to agree with you. I do not. I think that there is proof of evolution over billions and billions of years because i’ve seen it and studied it a bit. But after decades of studying the Bible, O still see zero proof of a God.
If you really want answers, I would recommend you educate yourself of the reality of the world, on the history of humanity, and of other religions. Most people I know read a lot. Most people here read a lot as well. Mostly non-fiction. You’ll be amazed at the universe, i think. Because ever since I gave up religion, I find life to be much more peaceful and the universe much more amazing.
Well, good luck! And certainly feel free to ask questions. As long as you’re serious about discussing these things, most of us would be happy to discuss it like reasonable adults… Hope we were able to help.
December 21st, 2005 at 8:24 amOops – make 15,000 17,000 above
December 21st, 2005 at 8:26 amOne more little Question, Was Jesus for Real? Was the Crucifying Real? Was the story of the three Kings for Real?
December 21st, 2005 at 10:31 amQuestion #1. Did or did not all living things supposed to have died in the first place? in some places, it would flood ,but life under the flood continue to exist, such as grss and microorgans under water. so actually, not everything would necessarily die.
Question #2. This erosion of layers of Earth. How did you come across this theory that a flood would Remove layers?
when it rains , it dosnt necessarily erode layers , does it?
Question are about the below.
December 21st, 2005 at 10:39 amBut, once again, if this were to occur, the erosional effects on the plaent would have been a serius destruction of all living things, including the removal of many layers of earth.
uhmmm. regarding the mountains created by the flood. where did that come from?
December 21st, 2005 at 10:44 ami Dont believe that either. mountains are formed by tectonic plate movements and weather erosion, so, I dont know where the thought that a flood created mountains.
I do believe mountains existed Before the Great Flood.
now, as far as PEOPLE Believing in a Flat Earth, well, Back then, People were not so Bright. It is Possible that People would have Belived strange things. Even today, people still continue to believe in the wierd and bazaar.
hehe, Unbelievable. Well, good luck! And certainly feel free to ask questions/ roflmaf.
feel free?
why not try, “please, continue testing my knowledge and patience”.
by the way, when will it start costing me for questioning your knowledge?(just kidding).
December 21st, 2005 at 10:49 amP.S>Is your knowledge really free? or did you have to pay for an education?
Unbelievable, and Gregor, please, I am not trying to be a Qoute”Smartass”, I just have some Serious Questions about “Freewill”, Thats all.
December 21st, 2005 at 10:53 amBecause , with all the Laws, and Can and cannot do, I tend to feel less and less free about what I can and cannot Do.
If I was to lose a leg or an arm or sight, I would Feel very dependant on others, and less free to help myself.
are you following me on this?
I mean , do you understand me on this?
#132
One more little Question, Was Jesus for Real? Was the Crucifying Real? Was the story of the three Kings for Real?
Comment by nofreedom! — December 21, 2005 @ 10:31 am
I don’t know. There is no authenticated historical account of such a person. You know how there are artifacts found throughout human existence that verify the existence of certain people – well, there has been none in reagrd to a living Jesus. There was a forgery of the historian Josephus that a monk or a Jesuit added centuries later. It makes me personally suspictious when someone has to lie about a thing like that…
If you read about other, older religions you will find vast similarities between other figures and Jesus. Krishna in Hindu culture is virtually the same person. The difference is that Hindu sees their gods as abstractions, whereas Christianity sees it’s gods as literal beings. There are also significant coparisions between Greek and Middle Eastern mythology and the Christian descriptions of Christ. There are also numerous comparisons between Jeus the ’son’ of god and the ’sun’… Here is one link on this subject http://www.truthbeknown.com/cutner.htm
December 21st, 2005 at 10:58 amWHAT IS THE BIBLE?
The Bible is one of twenty-seven books for which divine origin is claimed. Christians deny the divinity of all Bibles but their own. We deny the divinity of only one more than they do.
Out of 250 Jewish-Christian writings, sixty-six have arbitrarily been declared canonical by Protestants. The rejected books are of the same general character as those now published together as the “Holy Bible.” Circumstances rather than merit determined selection.
For 150 years the Christian Bible consisted of the sacred books of the Jews. The New Testament was not formed until the latter half of the second century when Irenaeus selected twenty books from among forty or more gospels, nearly as many acts of apostles, a score of revelations and a hundred epistles. Why were these particular books chosen? Why four gospels instead of one? Irenaeus: “There are four quarters of the earth in which we live and four universal winds.” The gospels were unknown to Peter, Paul, and the early church fathers. They were forged later.
The Bible did not assume anything like its present form until the fourth century. The Roman Catholic, Greek Catholic, and Protestant canons were not adopted until modern times. The Bible was recognized as a collection of independent writings. The Council of Trent (1563) determined the Roman Catholic, Protestants denounce the Catholic Bible as a “popish imposture.” The Greek Catholics at the Council of Jerusalem in 1672 finally accepted the book of Revelation. Their Bible contains several books not in the Roman canon. The Westminster Assembly in 1647 approved the list of sixty-six books composing the authorized version, the one most used in America. Our Bible, therefore, is less than 300 years old.
source:
http://www.atheists.org/christianity/myth.html
December 21st, 2005 at 11:05 am#133
Question #1. Did or did not all living things supposed to have died in the first place? in some places, it would flood ,but life under the flood continue to exist, such as grss and microorgans under water. so actually, not everything would necessarily die.
Part of the thing you should consider is that we have different types of water supporting sea life. There are fresh water beings that die when exposed to salt water, and salt water beings that die in fresh water. This includes microorganisms and plants Plus, there are beings that need specific conditions (know how fish in a tank have to have the water adjusted for tehir conditions and die if they don’t get them).
Okay, so if you mix up all the water, you can’t sustain the water life either. Plus, 40 days and nights of rain means 40 days andnights of no sunlight, which many species of corals and plants can’t not survive.
In addition, the scourging effect of the rain on the planet would create mostly likely make it impossible for any life that survived the other conditions to be denied oxygen, be caught in turbulent waters and buried – kind of like being in an underwater hurricane.
Question #2. This erosion of layers of Earth. How did you come across this theory that a flood would Remove layers?
when it rains , it dosnt necessarily erode layers , does it?
Normal rain does cause erosion. But rain that is coming down at 11.5 feet per hour (rain is usually less than an inch per hour in a storm), would definitely create severe erosion. You could take a graden hose to ant ant hill to get an idea of the powerful force of water erosion.
Here’s a link to a university website on the effects of erosion (I personally got my information from a geologist who taught at university level): http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/ritter/geog101/textbook/mass_movement_weathering/water_erosion.html
December 21st, 2005 at 11:15 am#134
uhmmm. regarding the mountains created by the flood. where did that come from?
Comment by nofreedom! — December 21, 2005 @ 10:44 am
There’s also volcanic activity that can create mountains. Floods don’t create mountains. even naturally occuring floods now cause the opposite – erosion.
December 21st, 2005 at 11:18 am#135
hehe, Unbelievable. Well, good luck! And certainly feel free to ask questions/ roflmaf.
feel free?
why not try, “please, continue testing my knowledge and patienceâ€.
Are you serious? This is why we get irritated with you guys. I’m trying to be nice and explain this to you, and you insult me? Sorry if you can’t accept people the way that they are, and get so caught up in trying to change people to be who you want them to be that you become an ass about it. To put it in your terms – Why not try just ‘Thanks’?
December 21st, 2005 at 11:21 amAll knowledge is free, you just have to be willing to go in search of it (instead of just blindly taking what you are handed by others), ask questions and think for yourself. Can’t speak for Gregor, but that part of my education was free…
December 21st, 2005 at 11:23 amThanks unbelievable, I wasn,t trying to be sarcastic.
December 21st, 2005 at 11:38 amonto newer topics.
Yea you are right. Knowledge IS Free. Sorry to have sounded sarcastic.
December 21st, 2005 at 11:39 amNo problem…
December 21st, 2005 at 11:56 am63 not the “consient”
December 26th, 2006 at 6:19 amthe correct is “consistent”
63 not the “consient”
December 26th, 2006 at 6:19 amthe correct is “consistent”
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