VIDEO: Fox Affiliate Airs Ode to White Supremacist Site
VIDEO: Fox Affiliate Airs Ode to White Supremacist Site
Fox affiliate “FOX Carolina” last month ran a one-sided fluff piece exploring StormFront.org, an online hub for white supremacists.
The Anti-Defamation League describes StormFront as a “veritable supermarket of online hate, stocking its shelves with many forms of anti-Semitism and racism.” Yet not a single critical voice is included in the Fox story — only StormFront members and moderators are included.
ThinkProgress has acquired the video of the segment. (Note: the clip is “annotated” with text commentary by StormFront members.) Watch it:
FOX Carolina’s website has removed both the video and transcript of this segment from its website. ThinkProgress called the network today to ask why the story had been removed; a network official told us it had nothing to do with protests over the piece, but rather was part of the station’s normal process of removing older stories from its website. In other words, it appears the station stands by the story.
More on Blair Watch and Crooks & Liars. Full transcript of the segment below:
Stormfront.org
Nov 18, 2005, 09:59 AMIt’s a web site with everything from dating advice and homemaking threads, to discussion boards that focus on news that white activists want to know. Stormfront.org is a web site founded on the belief that the white race is a dying race.
One member says, “we really are just white folks that deeply care about preserving a future for our progeny.”
There are more than 65,000 members, and since Stormfront started in 1995 there have been more than 2,000,000 posts. Members live in all parts of the world, with close to 3,000 in and around South Carolina.
Bob Whitaker is a former Reagan administration cabinet member and an active member of Stormfront. He believes diversity and equal rights are at the center of a conspiracy against the white race. Whitaker says, “I’m worried about the disappearance of the white race.” Whitaker says too much is being done to diversify America and not enough is being done to protect people like him. “I’m worried about 2 things. I’m worried about the disappearance of the white race and I’m worried about the fact that no one is allowed to talk about the disappearance of the white race, which is even worse.”
But all Americans are provided equal protection under the law, which means equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.
Jamie Kelso is one of Stormfront’s senior moderators. He uses the screen name Charles A. Lindbergh, a well-known aviator who believed in the preservation of the white race. Kelso says, “I admire Charles Lindbergh as someone who throughout his life took pride in the white race and was very concerned about preserving it.”
Even though Stormfront was created by former Ku Klux Klansman Don Black, Kelso says their message isn’t one of hate. “We’re called anti-Semitic, we’re called neo-Nazi, we’re called racist [but] we’re none of that.” Instead, Stormfront members say their message is much more simple. “We don’t hate anybody. The only thing we’re concerned with is that 100 years from now, 500 years from now that there will actually be the kind of white neighborhoods and white nations that our parents and ancestors gave to us.”
Kelso says Stormfront simply provides a safe forum for people to use without fear of retaliation. “Really the political correctness today, you could even call it vicious. On the Internet you can anonymously talk to other people and open up and say what you want to say. This has really opened up a new chance for people to have free speech.”
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I wonder what name(s) I-RIGHT-I uses on there…
Z.
December 22nd, 2005 at 2:56 pmYeah, I can see why a Fox News affiliate would need to make some room on their servers. Stories that are a month old tend to just take up too much space and it was a month ago for God’s sake. That is like keeping stories around forever.
/sarcasm = off
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:00 pmWhy no critical perspectives? Why give this racist, supremist website ANY airtime whatsoever? Hmm… this should set off alarms in the head of every citizen about the veracity of Fox News.
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:01 pmZwack,
Didn’t you know, IRI is the webmaster there :()
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:06 pmI’m sure the KKK is another owner of FAUX “News”…
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:07 pmI don’t know, but I don’t think much of a rebuttal needs to be made on air against these guys. Their mouths are their worse enemies and now they can not hide from the public at large. While a counter-view would be nice, I don’t think this damns this Fox affiliate as serving as a mouthpiece for hate groups. I could be wrong about this, but in the marketplace of ideas, I am certain that our worldview of equal rights for all refutes this nonesence of “conspiricy” against the white race.
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:08 pmveracity of Fox News? HAHAHAHHAHAHA caspermilktoast, you are a dreamer.
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:09 pmStormfront a white supremacist site? How could anyone say such a silly thing? Just because David Duke hosts a show there and KKK advertise there doesn’t mean that it is a white supremacist site. Does it?
In Faux Spews world it doesn’t
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:11 pmWhat kind of conspiracy is that guy thinking is going on? Our government is overflowing with old rich white men, and even a few old rich white women! Ans all the heads of the media corperations are white… what conspiracy does he actually see?
It’s as if anything less than a 100% WHITE United States means there is a conspiracy against the White Race.
Whitaker, if you’re so worried about losing the white race, then just have sex more. That’s really the only advice I think you could possibly understand. Anything that would truely open your eyes would either go right over your dumb head, or you’d refuse to admit it.
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:13 pmFox news was discussing the horrifying messages of two little maleable musical morons and the horrible influence of their KKK mom and grandfather. But knowing this site, I understand the s–t–r–e–t–c–h!!!
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:15 pmMy apologies to the rocket scientists here at TP – Without watching the clip I wrongly assumed the post was referring to the little sister singers that FNC discussed and criticized. Fox Carolina – that’s relevant to me!!!
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:18 pmisnt kkk a hitler group?
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:21 pmFinally, proof that Fox News is a neocon neonazi network.
You right-wing rednecks have no shame, do you?
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:22 pmVIDEO: Fox Affiliate Airs Ode to White Supremacist !
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:23 pmHail Seigler?
“Fox News: We… ah whatever. Make it up as we go along.”
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:23 pm#12
isnt kkk a hitler group?
Comment by nofreedom! — December 22, 2005 @ 3:21 pm
KKK and Neo-Nazis are White Protestent Supremicists. Hitler was more anti-Christian, pro-Aryan. Not really all that different in their capacity to hate, just minor nuances in who they hated specifically. The first two hate Catholics as well, while Hitler was a Catholic.
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:29 pmMy apologies to the rocket scientists here at TP – Without watching the clip I wrongly assumed the post was referring to the little sister singers that FNC discussed and criticized. Fox Carolina – that’s relevant to me!!!
Comment by mighty aphrodite — December 22, 2005 @ 3:18 pm
There was no need to watch the clip or to be a rocket scientist (I am not) to understand the thread is not about the two girls from California. All that was needed was a minimum time to read the story -not even the transcript.
This demonstrates you post without bothering to read what the thread is actually about.
What would Fox Carolina be relevant to you?
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:29 pm#17 correction “anti-Christian” shoudl be Anti-non-Christian”
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:29 pmDoes it need pointing out how funny it was what mighty aphrodite just did?
“You morons, you’ve got it totally wrong… oh wait, I wasn’t paying attention, you got it right… but it’s so irrelevant I’ll only post twice on subject.”
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:30 pmunbelievable,
Hitler wasn’t anti-christian, that’s a myth. The rightwing christians helped him attain power and retain it. The reason that the KKK ‘hates catholics’, is that they’re seen as ‘too liberal’, which ironically is the same stand that hitler had with many ‘christians’ who were actually persecuted.
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:31 pm[Comment deleted by admin]
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:33 pm#21
Ryan,
I made a typo. Agreed that Hitler was Christian. Meant to say anti-NON-Christian. Thanks for catching it.
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:33 pmDoes it need pointing out how funny it was what mighty aphrodite just did?
Comment by Canadian Bystander — December 22, 2005 @ 3:30 pm
It actually doesn’t, but it’s funny all the same.
It is clear to me now why Mighty Aphrodite’s posts are so erratic: she is simply not reading. Funny for someone who claims to be a lawyer. Funnier still that we have her on record admitting it.
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:36 pmunbelievable
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:37 pmI could be Right?
http://www.escapeartist.com/efam/76/efam76.html#Living
i,m packing.
unbelievable, Ryan(hehe) Iworded it just a little. read on
Bush wasn’t anti-christian, that’s a myth. The rightwing christians helped him attain power and retain it. The reason that the KKK ‘hates catholics’, is that they’re seen as ‘too liberal’, which ironically is the same stand that Bush had with many ‘christians’ who were actually persecuted.
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:39 pm#11: Why is it every time you post here your tone is filled with nastiness and hate? What exactly is it you hope to accomplish by taking that tone? I read what you write, and my first thought is to dismiss you completely (I would do this anyway based on your particular brand of thoughts), but I’m rarely if ever tempted to read your posts further when your first words always start with name calling.
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:39 pmUH-OH Mighty aphrodite , Your Boss Is rating You.
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:43 pmBusted
More on the coming of “America, the Police State”:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/wews/3133362
Bill Would Allow Arrests For No Reason In Public Place
A bill on Gov. Bob Taft’s desk right now is drawing a lot of criticism, NewsChannel5 reported.
One state representative said it resembles Gestapo-style tactics of government, and there could be changes coming on the streets of Ohio’s small towns and big cities.
The Ohio Patriot Act has made it to the Taft’s desk, and with the stroke of a pen, it would most likely become the toughest terrorism bill in the country. The lengthy piece of legislation would let police arrest people in public places who will not give their names, address and birth dates, even if they are not doing anything wrong.
WEWS reported it would also pave the way for everyone entering critical transportation sites such as, train stations, airports and bus stations to show ID.
“It brings us frighteningly close to a show me your papers society,” said Carrie Davis of the ACLU, which
opposes the Ohio Patriot Act.
There are many others who oppose the bill as well.
“The variety of people who opposed to this is not just a group of the usual suspects. We have people far right to the left opposing the bill who think it is a bad idea,” said Al McGinty, NewsChannel5?s terrorism expert.
McGinty said he isn’t sure the law would do what it’s intended to do.
“I think anything we do to enhance security and give power to protect the public to police officers is a good idea,” he said. “It is a good law in the wrong direction.”
Gov. Bob Taft will make the ultimate decision on whether to sign the bill.
WEWS was told that Taft is expected to sign the bill into law, but legal experts expect that it will be challenged in courts.
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:49 pmHaving been born and raised in the deep south, including living in a county that was the KKK Capital of Alabamn, this story does not surprise me one bit.
Its just sad that such ignorant assholes (please forgive the language) still exist.
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:56 pm#9 — Please don’t tell these people to have sex more! We don’t want them spawning!
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:57 pmHonestly, I don’t even read Mighty Tyranny’s posts anymore… it gives me a headache to try to decipher her incoherent babbling.
Good one nofreedom… not sure what I was supposed to be reading in your link.
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:57 pmTime for every other state to open their borders to Ohioans who don’t want to live in a state that so desperately wants to be the 21st century equivalent to Nazi Germany.
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:58 pm#31
A bunch of women were willing to donate to the “Let’s neuter I-RIGHT-I Fund”, perhaps you men could do the same to stop these neocon ho-ho-hos from breeding? Just a thought…
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:00 pmBob Whitaker was a ‘cabinet member’ in the Reagan administration? That’d be news to anyone who knew the names of Reagan’s cabinet members.
Whitaker’s bio on his site lists this:
“Bob was a Reagan appointee in charge of all civilian security clearances and federal staffing.”
Which is surely inflated, but even so, what a frightening prospect having this drooling racist moron in charge of anything having to do with the government. Otto Reich notwithstanding.
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:00 pm[Comment deleted by admin]
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:00 pm[Comment deleted by admin]
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:03 pmThe poor bastards in Ohio – home of Diebold and the country’s highest unemployment rate and taxes, keep electing republicans to the Senate, House, State Legislature, Governors mansion, and State Judiciary. They even sent Jean Schmidt to Washington.
Now they’re going to live in a police state. Amazing.
Memo to Ohio: How much corruption, cronysim and incompetence are you going to tolerate before you vote Democratic?
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:17 pmAnd this is surprising because …
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:22 pmOne other memo to Ohio: How many young Ohioans must die in Iraq before you start voting in your own best interest, not George Bush’s?
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:23 pmDo not worry they will not have more SEX. They hate the stuff.
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:31 pmThe War of Christmas
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:32 pmOh, what fresh hell is this?
We just recently in the last election here in Charlotte, NC, had a candidate for city council who ended up dropping out before the primary when it was found he was a regular poster to some of the “discussion groups” at Stormfront. He then had the chutzpah(sp?) to claim that he really didn’t mean all the hateful things he had posted, that he was just doing research for a book he was writing. Yeah, right.
Later,
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:33 pmMemo to Ohio: How much corruption, cronysim and incompetence are you going to tolerate before you vote Democratic?
They tried. Kinda difficult when you have Diebold and Ken Blackwell (not) counting the votes.
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:37 pm#41 — That’s the whole problem. They say they hate sex, but they actually love it.
It’s that whole hyprocrisy thing.
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:40 pm“Hitler wasn’t anti-christian, that’s a myth. ”
Hitler was anti-Christian, just like Ryan Neat is.
July 6, 1945 – “The Nazi Master Plan: The Persecution of the Christian Churches”
Incidentally, you morons should learn the difference between a local Fox affiliate and the Fox news cable channel. LOL
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:41 pmI saw a post about terrorists on ThinkProgress, therefore ThinkProgress sympathizes with al Qaeda. End of proof.
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:43 pmI wonder what name(s) I-RIGHT-I uses on there…
Z.
Comment by Zwack
I be “Buckwheat’s Fat Nigra Momma” on all the right wingnut sites.
By the way it’s interesting that Fox can run a story on Islamist head choppers without stooping to call them brown racist thugs and murders and it’s quite all right with you people but Fox can’t run a story on the White Separatists and maintain the same disinterested spirit and get a pass. Yes, it’s very interesting.
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm“Incidentally, you morons should learn the difference between a local Fox affiliate and the Fox news cable channel. LOL
Comment by wwallace ”
yeah, they have even worse ratings :()
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm“I saw a post about terrorists on ThinkProgress, therefore ThinkProgress sympathizes with al Qaeda. End of proof.
Comment by wwallace”
That was your post, all that proves is republicans are terrorists :()
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:51 pmI’ll bet Ryan thinks the holocasut is a “myth” too, like the president of Iran does.
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:52 pm#46
“Hitler wasn’t anti-christian, that’s a myth. â€
Hitler was anti-Christian, just like Ryan Neat is.
Comment by wwallace — December 22, 2005 @ 4:41 pm
WWWingnut go read Mein Kampf… Hitler’s own words claiming to be Christian. He was a Christian. It’s why he killed Jews…
Esther 3:13 (King James Version)
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:53 pmAnd the letters were sent by posts into all the king’s provinces, to destroy, to kill, and to cause to perish, all Jews, both young and old, little children and women, in one day, even upon the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, which is the month Adar, and to take the spoil of them for a prey.
[Comment deleted by admin]
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:53 pmI predict Ryan will do nothing but continue his name-calling and Holocaust denial. :()
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:53 pm[Comment deleted by admin]
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:53 pmI predict wwallace will do nothing but continue his name-calling and Holocaust denial. :()
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:54 pm[Comment deleted by admin]
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:54 pm[Comment deleted by admin]
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:55 pm[Comment deleted by admin]
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:57 pmwwallace-
In response to #51, I’m sure Ryan does not think that way. At least I’m glad to see that you acknowledge that there was a holocaust. I just hope you acknowledge that there is still bigotry around te world, even in America and that the KKK is still one of the most dangerous domestic terrorist
groups in this country.
Why you would suck up to Fox’s view of them is beyond me.
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:58 pm#58
unbelievable obviously didn’t read the link I posted. unbelievable obviously hates Christaians just like Hitler did.
Comment by wwallace — December 22, 2005 @ 4:55 pm
Your link was opinion. Mein Kampf is fact. Fact trumphs opinion. Go get arrested and find out for yourself. Please.
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:58 pmDecember 22nd, 2005 at 4:59 pm
unbelievable, my link was not opinion. You obviously didn’t read it.
But thank you for admitting that you believe the contents of Mien Kampf.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pmThat was not FoxNews. There is no such thing as a FoxNews affiliate. Only Fox Network affiliates.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pmDecember 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:01 pm
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:02 pm
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
I posted a link to the Nuremburg files, Ryan responds with some old opinion pieces. LOL What a Holocaust-denying loser!
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pmDecember 22nd, 2005 at 5:04 pm
wwallace calls public statements by german christian ‘opinion pieces’ – now THAT is funny!!!! ROTFL
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:05 pm#63
unbelievable, my link was not opinion. You obviously didn’t read it.
But thank you for admitting that you believe the contents of Mien Kampf.
Comment by wwallace — December 22, 2005 @ 5:00 pm
Yes it opinion – the work of the religious department at Rutgers. Hardly unbiased. They were not Hitler so it was their opinion. However, straight from the horse’s mouth:
“I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work”.
-Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936
“Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . . we need believing people.”
-Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, from a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant of 1933
“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exposed.”
-Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922, published in My New Order, quoted in Freethought Today April 1990]
and more at: http://atheism.about.com/library/quotes/bl_q_AHitler.htm
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:07 pm[Comment deleted by admin]
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:07 pmRyan thinks nazi statements are all true. Imagine that. LOL
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:07 pmunbelievable also says he believes everything Hitler said. Very interesting.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:08 pm[Comment deleted by admin]
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:11 pmOoh, Ryan called me a nazi, how original! LOL
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:11 pm[Comment deleted by admin]
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:11 pmOhh, wwallace called me a nazi, how original! LOL
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:11 pm#75
unbelievable also says he believes everything Hitler said. Very interesting.
Comment by wwallace — December 22, 2005 @ 5:08 pm
I’m a she, you moron. I only posted what the man said. I’m not a Christian. I’m an Atheist. You own Hitler not us.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:12 pmNext, Ryan will post a quote from several other Holocaust deniers to “prove” that the Holocaust is a “myth.”
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm[Comment deleted by admin]
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm[Comment deleted by admin]
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pmunbelievable, the claim that Hitler was a Christian is a vile slander. It is morally equivalent to Holocaust denial.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:14 pmThose who ‘assessed’ the ‘hanity/rutgers’ document describe wwallace’s treatise this way:
“This is early post-war spin by the allies to distance certain German church officials from the possibility of prosecution for war crimes as a result of their cooperation with the Nazi government.”
Fascists used ’spin’ to protect fascist christians from their participation in the holocaust. wwallace defends those that helped perpetrate the holocaust. wwallace clearly doesn’t appreciate the evil of the holocaust – but wwallace is a nazi.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:14 pmwwallace doesn’t understand that Hitler PUBLICALLY stated he was a catholic – wwallace lies and slanders those speak the truth.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:15 pm#84
unbelievable, the claim that Hitler was a Christian is a vile slander. It is morally equivalent to Holocaust denial.
Comment by wwallace — December 22, 2005 @ 5:14 pm
Hitler claimed to be a Christian, so I guess Hitler denies the Holocaust? That is what you said. Moron.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:15 pmThe holocaust was not a myth, but Hitler being ‘anti-christian’, and the denial of christian churches in their participation of the holocaust IS a myth. Christians are reponsible for the holocaust!
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pmHitler slandered himself – that’s funny :()
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pmDecember 22nd, 2005 at 5:17 pm
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:17 pm
Ryan says, “wwallace doesn’t understand that Hitler PUBLICALLY stated he was a catholic”
unbelievable says, “Hitler claimed to be a Christian”
Their statements imply that they assume everything Hitler uttered was true.
As the Nuremburg files I linked to show, the Nazis often lied, surprise, surprise!
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:18 pmRyan,
Is this guy for real, or is he just trying to be funny, and faLling miserably? The Neocons paying him are really wasting their money…
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:18 pmwwallace wants a Nuremburg transcript, how about this one :()
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:18 pm
[Comment deleted by admin]
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:19 pmI used the nuremburg files and proved wwallace wrong, that’s what she gets for falsely referencing material she hasn’t read :()
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:20 pm#92
Their statements imply that they assume everything Hitler uttered was true.
As the Nuremburg files I linked to show, the Nazis often lied, surprise, surprise!
Comment by wwallace — December 22, 2005 @ 5:18 pm
Oh, gebious, so then perhaps you explain why Hitler only killed the Jews in accordance with the Bible, and no Christians??? For an argument to be plausable, it has to make sense, Your’s doesn’t. Ours does. We win.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:20 pmDecember 22nd, 2005 at 5:21 pm
Ryan thinks Hermann Goerring was telling the truth. VFery strange.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:21 pmDecember 22nd, 2005 at 5:21 pm
[Comment deleted by admin]
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:22 pmRyan,
Too bad Reagan cut funding to the mental health departments. They could stand to be in here looking ofr guys like this to assist with strong meds, a straight jacket and a lobotomy.
Too bad for him that we like to debate, and are good at it :)
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:23 pmunbelievable, “so then perhaps you explain why Hitler only killed the Jews in accordance with the Bible, and no Christians?”
As the Nuremburg files I linked to demonstrate, the Nazis did target and kill Christians. Why is it so important to you and Ryan to deny the Holocaust? It’s really sick.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:23 pmDecember 22nd, 2005 at 5:24 pm
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:25 pm
wwwallace, how about that alternate theory on why Hitler ONLY killed Jews? If you’re right, you’ll have one… Let’s hear it.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:25 pmunbelievable, your assertion that Hitler only killed Jews is a lie. You are a Holocaust denier.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:27 pmTO THINK PROGRESS’ ADMIN AND/OR THREAD MODERATOR:
You deleted my comment #36 where I was expanding on Busted’s complaints about Mighty Aphrodite’s lack of substance and thoughts in her posts. I also pointed out Mighty Aphrodite’s condescending tone and haughtiness. I did not use curse words or otherwise coarse language.
Mighty Aphrodite’s comments are still in the thread, and you are currently letting other equally unsubstantial posts remain. Not only are these posts not improving the quality of the blog -with which Think Progress asked us to help some time back- they are openly abusive, insulting, and overall degrading the discourse. You are also allowing these bloggers to continue to derail the thread -as they seem keen on.
You deleted my complaint, and left its motive untouched. If my comments do not stand up to the quality you expect, by all means, delete them. But I will ask you to use the same yardstick to measure the quality of other bloggers’ posts.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:27 pmHitler killed Christians who aided the Jews… not the same as killing them for being Christians.
You should try some history not written by religious organizations for a change. The propaganda they are selling you doesn’t make sense.
You think your sources are telling the truth but ours are lying? Doesn’t that seem a bit strange to you? It should.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:28 pmwwallace is right, hitler also killed liberals, communists, gypsies and gay people. all of those people were considered ‘anti-christian’, which is why they were killed. wwallace contradicts himself through stupidity yet again :()
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:28 pmGregor,
The same thing happened to me, it’s bizarre. Are we sure wwallace isn’t running the monitoring today? :()
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pmGregor + Ryan,
I didn’t understand why those posts were deleted either. Could we ask for some clarification?. I certainly don’t want to offend them…
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:31 pmRyan,
I just noticed. I also saw some of the posts by Unbelievable were also deleted. What gives? I think you are right, maybe Aphrodite is monitoring today…
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:31 pmunbelievable, The Rutgers material I posted contains primary documents from Nuremburg. You can continue to deny the events of the Holocaust if you wish, just like Ryan and the president if Iran.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:31 pmI proved wwallace wrong, and debunked his entire propaganda schtick. I predict she’ll continue to deny the truth in the face of overwhelming evidence, because she’s a nazi terrorist who hates america.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:32 pmRyan, Unbelievable,
I just noticed yuor posts were deleted too.. it is bizarre.
Maybe they want us to surrender the thread to wwallace…
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:33 pmthe rutgers material contains the subset that was used to ‘hide’ the role of the church, the full material includes the quotes that I posted that contradict it. Republicans never read ’source’ material, and always trust the nazi think tanks they contribute to – that’s why they’re such retarded nazis like wwallace who keep making false claims.
wwallace has been proven wrong on every point, his continued denials and anti-american rhetoric won’t change the facts I’ve posted.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:34 pmYes, why would ThinkProgress delete posts from these Holocaust deniers? Interesting.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:34 pmGregor + Ryan,
I just scrolled back and many were deleted from each of us. Not sure why. More than usual. Wonder what’s up.
Any idea?
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:34 pmRyan obviously never read the hundreds of pages of material from Rutgers. LOL
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:35 pmwwallace good question, why would they let apologist like you who denies a holocaust perpetrated by christians against jews post? It’s irrational.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:36 pmwwallace obviously never read the quotes from the nuremburg trials that aren’t in the rutgers material. wwallace proves ignorance is bliss, and that republicans are nazis :()
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:36 pm[Comment deleted by admin]
Comment by wwallace — December 22, 2005 @ 4:55 pm
You’re deleted too wwwallace
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:36 pmThe only difference I can see between these guys and say, AIPAC, is the number of members. And regional stuff.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:37 pmRyan obviously never read the hundreds of pages of material from Rutgers. LOL
Comment by wwallace — December 22, 2005 @ 5:35 pm
And you did? See, you could watch Judge Judy to get a basic understanding of how to spot lying and how, once a person lies, he or she loses all credibility.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:39 pmHitler = Christian = Republican
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:40 pm#126
Exactly!
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:42 pmI think you’ve lost your usual cool, Ryan. Bashing Christians is akin to masterbation. Fun, but you don’t want to brag about it, do you?
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:44 pmTO THINK PROGRESS’ ADMIN AND/OR THREAD MODERATOR:
So as to not incur in future violations of your policy, I respectfully request to know where your standards are.
For my own edification and future reference, can you please explain to me how the following taunting posts fit in your quality improvement policy?
Incidentally, you morons should learn the difference between a local Fox affiliate and the Fox news cable channel. LOL
Comment by wwallace — December 22, 2005 @ 4:41 pm
I saw a post about terrorists on ThinkProgress, therefore ThinkProgress sympathizes with al Qaeda. End of proof.
Comment by wwallace — December 22, 2005 @ 4:43 pm
Next, Ryan will post a quote from several other Holocaust deniers to “prove” that the Holocaust is a “myth.”
Comment by wwallace — December 22, 2005 @ 5:13 pm
unbelievable, the claim that Hitler was a Christian is a vile slander. It is morally equivalent to Holocaust denial.
Comment by wwallace — December 22, 2005 @ 5:14 pm
Hitler claimed to be a Christian, so I guess Hitler denies the Holocaust? That is what you said. Moron.
Comment by unbelievable — December 22, 2005 @ 5:15 pm
unbelievable, your assertion that Hitler only killed Jews is a lie. You are a Holocaust denier.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:46 pmComment by wwallace — December 22, 2005 @ 5:27 pm
wwallace, if you, like the president of Iran, want to deny events of the Holocaust, knock yourself out.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:47 pmStyle points, Gregor. You get points for style.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:48 pmMy posts were not “taunting”, Gregor.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:48 pmwwallace you called us liars and hate mongers. That is taunting. try http://www.dictionary.com for free.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:50 pmunbelievable, no those are simply descriptive terms based on evidence. Calling a Holocaust denier a “Holocaust denier” is not taunting. You are denying very well documented historical events.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:53 pmwwallace, no those are simply descriptive terms based on evidence. Calling a Holocaust denier a “Holocaust denier†is not taunting. You are denying very well documented historical events.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm#136
No, I didn’t deny it. Ryan disproved it. Then we both gave you evidence that he was a Christian, through historical quotes that are factual and verifiable, which you DID deny.
You twist words to insinuate that we are lying. That IS taunting.
http://www.dictionary.com try it for free
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:56 pmunbelievable reiterates his position that the quotes from the nazis are truthful, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. really sick stuff.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:57 pmwwallace reiterates his position that there’s no evidence to support his opinion, but he’s going to deny the proven facts from the Nuremburg trials. really sick stuff.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:58 pm#143
wwingnut, I am a woman. I know you, being a good Christian and all, don’t think women know how to read, but this is America and I can. Try really hard to deal with that.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:59 pm#138
unbelievable reiterates his position that the quotes from the nazis are truthful, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. really sick stuff.
Comment by wwallace — December 22, 2005 @ 5:57 pm
#143 (odd it was 143 now it’s 138?)
wwingnut, I am a woman. I know you, being a good Christian and all, don’t think women know how to read, but this is America and I can. Try really hard to deal with that.
Comment by unbelievable — December 22, 2005 @ 5:59 pm
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:00 pmI’ll venture to guess that Hitler’s involvement in Christianity was like most people’s: Self-serving and half-assed, to support some already held belief that the malleable Christianity would help justify.
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:00 pmA woman perhaps, but obviously no lady. LOL
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:00 pmOk, well, if those are the comments that will be left standing, I guess I will have to post one too. For posterity:
wwallace doesn’t know what “taunting” means, that’s why he thinks his posts are not taunting.
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:01 pmunbelievable, dude, I don’t care what gender you pretend to be. LOL
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:01 pmPerhaps since no liberal will touch the question, Gregor will give it a shot. What is the relevance of this thread? There doesn’t seem to be any.
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:03 pmA woman perhaps, but obviously no lady. LOL
Comment by wwallace — December 22, 2005 @ 6:00 pm
See that is slanderous, and taunting.
taunt
n : aggravation by deriding or mocking or criticizing [syn: twit, taunting] v : harass with persistent criticism or carping; “The children teased the new teacher”; “Don’t ride me so hard over my failure”; “His fellow workers razzed him when he wore a jacket and tie” [syn: tease, razz, rag, cod, tantalize, tantalise, bait, twit, rally, ride]
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=taunt
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:03 pmReal ladies taunt wwallace. That’s why he’s here all the time.
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:03 pmOkay wwwallace, then I’ll refer to your as an ‘it’
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:05 pmwwallace thinks gender and genre mean the same thing. That’s why he mates with his dog.
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:05 pmGregor,
hahahhahahha. If that doesn’t get deleted… good one!
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:06 pmwwallace makes any thread irrelevant. Too bad Think Progress does not seem to care.
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:07 pmWeird. I’ve seen a lot worse aroundhere, especially form some of the regular trolls, but figured it was part of accepting and supporting free speech… Wonder what happened? Do they ever give feedback?
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:09 pmNope, the new Think Progress policy is to let the trolls post whatever they want, let them derail threads and then delete the posts that tell them to go fvck themselves.
I am seeing more and more of the regular posters on Think Progress leave. If that is what Think Progress wants, then I think that we should find a better place to post.
Think Progress has given in to the trolls.
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:17 pmI am still riling that they deleted my post -if was no opus by any means but then neither are wwallace’s many scoffing, unrelated, off-topic, non-sensical, completely devoid of facts one-liners.
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:27 pmThat’s really too bad… I’m sure they have their reasons. I’ve enjoyed being here inspite of the deletes, though they do surprise me. If anyone does leave, please let us know where to. It would be nice to continue debating, I mean defeating, trolls together. I’ve learned a lot from you guys. Means a lot.
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:45 pmI posted this one last night:
But, we get no response, just random post deletions, with no ryhme or reason. They don’t delete the original troll posts that cause us to respond, only the response posts.
This is much the same way that a football game works. One player pushes another player, who turns around and pushes back. The second player, who was the original pushee gets the penalty. Even though everybody at home sees the first push.
All of us see the original flame post, but for some reason Think Progress does not.
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:57 pmSpudgeBoy,
What most upsets me is that I was actually complaining in my post. Complaining about Mighty Aphrodite’s lack of susbtantive posts. No cursing, no insults. She can post whatever she wants, and wwallace can call us ‘morons’ all he wants. And we are the ones to get the boot?
December 22nd, 2005 at 7:15 pmRIghtwing taking over Think Progress?
December 22nd, 2005 at 7:29 pmSpudge, Gregor, Unbelievable, Ryan, et. al.
First let me state that I don’t approve of censorship of any sort. On an anonymous “free speech” website such as this, personal attacks are bound to occur from time to time, especially when the people engaged in the discussion are passionate about their beliefs (or in some cases, and we know who I’m talking about, are loud with their ignorance).
That said, I suspect (and I could be completely wrong about this) that the high level of censorship on this thread has something to do with both the sensitive nature of this particular post’s subject matter, as well as the fact that many high-profile sites (like Raw Story) are linking directly to it.
December 22nd, 2005 at 7:45 pmI suspect (and I could be completely wrong about this) that the high level of censorship on this thread has something to do with both the sensitive nature of this particular post’s subject matter, as well as the fact that many high-profile sites (like Raw Story) are linking directly to it.
Comment by M. Duchamp — December 22, 2005 @ 7:45 pm
That’s my peeve: the posts that caused the angry responses are still in the thread. They also contain offensive, vulgar language.
If we are trying to keep the house clean -because of what our neighbours might say- then let’s clean it of all offensive remarks.
Not only that, but these bloggers are obviously trying to drive the conversation away from the subject and into name-calling by antagonising everyone (”All liberals are…”).
Why are those still in the thread?
December 22nd, 2005 at 7:53 pm#160
Here’s another wild guess on my part- leaving the trolls posts in place creates the impression that right-wingers are extreme and unreasonable kooks (an impression that has merit). Censoring angry posts by the regular libs, in a sense, protects the image of ThinkProgress and doesn’t allow such impressions to be made.
Again, I’m speculating (since I’m not a mind reader like Aphrodite).
December 22nd, 2005 at 8:00 pmAgain, I’m speculating (since I’m not a mind reader like Aphrodite).
Comment by M. Duchamp — December 22, 2005 @ 8:00 pm
Actually, your explanation sounds logical… but equally frustrating.
“mind reader like Aphrodite”? HA! That was funny ;-)
December 22nd, 2005 at 8:12 pm#162
December 22nd, 2005 at 8:29 pmI share in your frustration.
Perhaps Gregor can explain why he chooses to continue whining and ad hominem instead of posting any explanation for the relevance of this thread.
December 22nd, 2005 at 8:34 pm#164
December 22nd, 2005 at 8:38 pmYou’re one to talk about providing explanations and relevant comments, Wally.
M. Duchamp, “You’re one to talk about providing explanations and relevant comments, Wally.”
This comment is ad hominem, and contains no relevance to the topic. Thus, it violates teh site Terms of Use and should be deleted.
December 22nd, 2005 at 8:41 pmwwallace
December 22nd, 2005 at 8:44 pmare ou really KKK?
nofreedom – No, I do not and would not belong to that or any other Democratic organization.
December 22nd, 2005 at 8:47 pmToday’s Republican party appeals to the worst in human nature, and it is the natural home of white supremacists (except for those so extreme that even the GOP is too mderate for them). It only figures, then, that FOX — the GOP news network — would cater to and admire white supremacists.
These people (today’s GOP, FOX, Stormfront) are all the same: fascists and bigots, and proud of it.
December 22nd, 2005 at 8:53 pmRick, Today’s Democratic party appeals to the worst in human nature, and it is the natural home of white supremacists.
Incidentally, this thread has nothing to do with the Fox News channel, please read more carefully before you post.
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:00 pmDoes wwallace know the approximate proportions of religions among those murdered by the Nazis? Does he distinguish between ordinary paranoid dictatorial slaughter and the systematic killing machine they set up for the express and very nearly exclusive purpose of killing Jews for being Jews? I’d like to know.
In addition, wwallace needs to consider the role of rhetoric in the acquisition of power. It is quite clear that the Catholic Church cozied up to Hitler because it liked the way he talked. It’s a big secret, I know, but the Church has sometimes shown a taste for power too. But the exact amount of blood on its hands in debatable. As is whether Hitler really “was” a Christian. Clearly he THOUGHT he was.
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:20 pmWally, very little you have said tonight has had anything to do with the Fox news story.
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:22 pmGorgik – It is not at all clear that Hitler thought he was a Christian. It is true that he made some statements that he thought would appeal to Germany’s nominally Christian population, but there’s no reason to believe he was being truthful.
It is a slander to say the Catholic Church “cozied up to” the Nazis. In fact many Christians acted to save Jews from the Holocaust, risking their own lives.
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:25 pmGorgik, this thread is not about Fox News. Please read more carefully before posting. Thank you.
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:30 pmHitler Was a Catholic Taught by the Catholics?
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:36 pmMy god… wwallace is lurking here too? lol
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:41 pmwwallace,
How do you decide who is and isn’t a Christian? And could you point that specific verse out in the Bible? Because you guys don’t reject people from joining. There is no application and acceptance. Someone saying they are a Christian is enough, even better if they give you their money. Your not liking it or calling it vile slander doesn’t change it.
Hitler exterminated people who violated the teachings of the church, and specifically the Jews. I gave you one of the Biblical passages that condones his behavior. I didn’t make it up. Again, your not liking it doesn’t make it false. So stop attacking those of us who are simply messangers. We didn’t make it happen. We weren’t even born.
And if you dislike us all so much, they why are you here so much? I’m sure you’ll have no problems finding other neocon evangelicals with whom you can commiserate to help you re-write your own happily ever after version of history (though you could borrow any high school text book which has already done this). You and IRI could go form your own blog… and I promise that Ryan, Gregor and I will not show up.
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:42 pmWally, are you saying Hitler was both a nutjob AND a sneaky lyin bastard? This is NEWS!
What do YOU think he thought he was?
Also:
—Please note, I said CHURCH, not Catholics. I’ve been to the Holocaust Museum. I’ve read the wall of the heroes.
—Please note, I said Fox news STORY. Not Fox News.
try to post honestly.
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:43 pmunbelievable continues to maintain that Hitler was truthful, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Really sick.
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:43 pmHelp! I’m going nuts not being able to watch quicktime video on this site – 3865/whatever ‘disconnected’ is all ei get :p
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:43 pmOh oh, time to pull out Plan A again…
wwallace’s last post is entirely ad hominem. Thus it violates the site Terms of Use, and should be deleted.
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:46 pmGorgik at 9:20: “It is quite clear that the Catholic Church cozied up to Hitler”
Gorgik at 9:43: “Please note, I said CHURCH, not Catholics.”
Try to post honestly.
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:46 pmWally, you are making no sense whatsoever. In addition, you are misquoting me by bolding words I could have bolded but did not. Please don’t. Do you understand the words “Catholic Church” in some bizarre way I do not?
Are you perhaps about 12 years old? Are you going to answer the question I posed? because if you can’t, I’m afraid I will become bored and leave.
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:50 pmGorgik, don’t let wwallace get under your skin. You need to take his posts with a grain of salt. Or maybe a whole salt shaker.
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:51 pmHitler,oops,er,uh, wwallace i mean. er, r u catholic?
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:52 pm#175
Hitler Was a Catholic Taught by the Catholics?
Comment by nofreedom! — December 22, 2005 @ 9:36 pm
Hitler had a rotten childhood (his mother wanted but was denied an abortion), as a result, he tried to please God to make up for the fact that he could not please his mother. This is unfortunately common among abused children. I’m sure you’ve heard the term co-dependent? Generally people associated with alcoholics become enablers. Their children blame themselves, and manifest relationships throughout their lives that enable others to reinforce their low self-esteem while trying to please the other in the relationship. It’s a sad and viscious cycle.
Anyway, in an attempt to please God and the Catholic church (he claimed to be Catholic although not born into a Catholic family), he did some pretty drastic and heinous things. Psychosis can be a dangerous thing, as I’m sure you know from this history. Although it was 6 years ago, I can still recall the image of being in Dachau Concentration Camp looking into the belly of an abandoned crematorium where the ashes of burned humans remained. It was a pretty horrifying experience to know that humans were capable of such atrocities.
Anyway, that’s the premise. Hope it helped clear up the confusion about Hitler’s need to please the church to make himself feel better about being an unwanted child. Most Christians would never condone or exhibit this behavior. But unfortunately, the ones who do make it hard to forget. And, really, we should not forget, don’t you think?
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:52 pmOh, he doesn’t bother me. I am genuinely curious as to what religion Hitler thought he belonged to, since Wally is so sure Hitler was not a Christian. I like to learn new things.
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:54 pmOh ok. I just want to make sure no one has a stroke while having an argument with him. (I say argument because a “Civilized Discussion” just isn’t going to happen with wwallace)
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:56 pmI’ll settle for “intelligent.” ;)
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:57 pmI am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so
-Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941
more at:
December 22nd, 2005 at 9:58 pmhttp://atheism.about.com/library/quotes/bl_q_AHitler.htm
I’ll settle for “intelligent.†;)
Comment by Gorgik — December 22, 2005 @ 9:57 pm
That would be nice… but I think you’d have better luck getting blood from a turnip :)
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:00 pmunbelievable —
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:00 pmYou don,t suppose Bush needs to please the church to make himself feel better, Do You?
Intelligent Design? lol
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:00 pmunbelievable, is your point that Hitler made this remark to a single individual, rather than to a crowd? thus suggesting that Hitler said this not to appease the Christian public but because he believed it?
because if it was, I like your point very much.
;)
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:01 pmmmm . . . turnips!
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:02 pmI mean, afterall, Bush Even went as far as saying”God” talks to him. sorta eerie , dontcha know?
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:02 pmWally’s gone all quiet. Someone poke him.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:03 pmAre you going to answer the question I posed? because if you can’t, I’m afraid I will become bored and leave.
Comment by Gorgik — December 22, 2005 @ 9:50 pm
Gorgik, you are obviously new to Think Progress. He is one of the many resident trolls we have to put up with.
Don’t set your expectations too high with him.
Welcome to Think Progress.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:03 pmI don’t want to sound like wwallace here, but I thought Hitler was an atheist. But, I stand corrected.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:03 pmunbelievable —
You don,t suppose Bush needs to please the church to make himself feel better, Do You?
Comment by nofreedom! — December 22, 2005 @ 10:00 pm
Sure seems so, doesn’t it? I don’t know, but maybe. I’ve heard his father never approved of him… so I guess it’s possible. What do you think?
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:04 pmGorgik, I did not misquote you. Why would you lie like that when it’s so easy for readers to scroll back? Very strange.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:04 pmOh oh, HE’S BACK! lol
Time to pull out Plan B
wwallace is lying. Decent Americans will ignore him.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:05 pmunbelievable, is your point that Hitler made this remark to a single individual, rather than to a crowd? thus suggesting that Hitler said this not to appease the Christian public but because he believed it?
because if it was, I like your point very much.
;)
Comment by Gorgik — December 22, 2005 @ 10:01 pm
Thanks, two birds, one stone :)
And I like the fact that you got it… Suppose your intellect makes up for what is lacking with some people in here… :)
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:05 pmGorgik, you are obviously new to Think Progress. Gregor is one of the many resident trolls we have to put up with.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:07 pmBy the way wwallace, you didn’t answer my question earlier today, is your handle supposed to be based on William Wallace?
They may take our lives,
but they will never take out FREEDOM!!!
Oops, they already did.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:07 pmwwallace, I did not misquote you. Why would you lie like that when it’s so easy for readers to scroll back? Very strange.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:08 pmYea, Jeb was allways the Favorite.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:08 pmI wonder if Moma had anything to do with it.
I Think so too.
Bush Jr. Could actually be Hitler reencarnated.
I think Hitler believed in reencarnation, didnt he?
Thanks gregor. I was just intrigued by Wally’s inanity and had some questions I thought he might enjoy answering.
Double A, I have certainly heard the same thing many times: Hitler has been associated with the modern, atheist, totalitarian, inhuman 20th Century more times than anyone could count. And in fact, from a religious perspective (which I do not share but sympathize with), Hitler’s whole machine was certainly very atheistic.
But this cultural paradigm is a very different matter from that of his actual personal faith.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:10 pmYea, Jeb was allways the Favorite.
I wonder if Moma had anything to do with it.
I Think so too.
Bush Jr. Could actually be Hitler reencarnated.
I think Hitler believed in reencarnation, didnt he?
Comment by nofreedom! — December 22, 2005 @ 10:08 pm
Good question. I’ve heard he was a momma’s boy… But his alcoholicm and drug abuse is self-destructive, loe-self-esteem behavior (you don’t abiuse what you love), and he claims that Christianity was what got him sober (actually he did, but the church was his crutch). I’ll look into it and see what I can learn. I’m curious too.
As a former Catholic, I doubt Hitler believed in reincarantion – probably just Heaven.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:11 pmHitler had a lot of unorthodox beliefs he did not learn from the Church. That’s for sure. But then, so do many Christians.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:12 pmWell, it’s been nice meeting you all. I’m going back to Metafilter whence I came. Wally, remember to play nice!
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:14 pmGregor is one of the many resident trolls we have to put up with.
Comment by wwallace — December 22, 2005 @ 10:07 pm
It is plenty obvious for anyone reading the thread who is the troll.
Specially considering you took my post and replaced your name with mine.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:15 pmHitler’s whole machine was certainly very atheistic.
Okay, this is where I defend Atheism, because it has a very unfair stigma in this country. I am an Atheist. Grew up Christian, but gave up all religion a few years ago.
There are about 12% to 20% non-religious people in the U.S. – yet less than one percent of those in jail are non-religious. We’re actually more peaceful. We don’t believe in murder, torture or eating little children as a whole.
Hitler’s behavoir was actually pulled from the Bible (there are some Bible quotes earlier in this post). Fortunatley, Atheists have no book :). We’re just regular people with ethics and morals who just don’t see any proof of a God. That doesn’t make us evil. Not by a long shot.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:16 pmThere are many extremists in every religion. I’m Buddhist and I have read about wars in India around 300 b.c. where some Buddhist monks decided that they could take over another territory since the people there where “unbelievers”, and therefore where somehow sub-human. Buddha taught that violence is wrong in all circumstances, and killing another being is probably one of the greatest wrong doings one could do in the eyes of Buddha. But, these monks decided to ignore certain parts of the religion to meet their own ends.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:17 pmIt is plenty obvious for anyone reading the thread Gregor is the troll.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:20 pmunbelievable: “We’re actually more peaceful. We don’t believe in murder, torture or eating little children as a whole.”
Right, just ask Stalin, or Mao, or Castro, or Pol Pot! Such ignorance! LOL
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:22 pmStill a baseless slander: “Hitler’s behavoir was actually pulled from the Bible”
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:23 pmwwallace: I’m not the doody head! YOUR THE DOODY HEAD!
lol
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:23 pmI’m an atheist as well, in my case lifelong. I was using the term in its technical sense, meaning “having nothing to do with God.” That is, that’s the sense in which it’s used in reference to Hitler.
And it is a casual slander of atheism to use the word that way, much as it would be a slander on Jesus to blame him for the Reich. Hitler was a fundamentalist, which is a more useful way of looking at him. That is, any belief system reduced to a cynical tool of power is the moral equivalent of Nazism.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:24 pmBingo, Double A.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:25 pmWell, I Believe God is a Communist. A Dictator. not what Churches teach. I believe it was the will of the people to turn against God and Proclaim Freedom.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:30 pmI’m an atheist as well, in my case lifelong. I was using the term in its technical sense, meaning “having nothing to do with God.†That is, that’s the sense in which it’s used in reference to Hitler.
And it is a casual slander of atheism to use the word that way, much as it would be a slander on Jesus to blame him for the Reich. Hitler was a fundamentalist, which is a more useful way of looking at him. That is, any belief system reduced to a cynical tool of power is the moral equivalent of Nazism.
Comment by Gorgik — December 22, 2005 @ 10:24 pm
Then you’ll understand how a lot of people will take it out of context in this country to mean ‘evil’. Just look at what wwallace posted above.
The reason we brought up Hitler claiming to be a Christian was to remind the absolutists that no one is 100% perfect, not even their religion. I believe a lot of people give up accountability as a result.
And wwallace saying ‘as a whole’ means that there are exceptions. You have them too. And it gives you no right to play holier than thou. I’m done talking to you.
Good night all!
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:32 pm213 Unbelievable “Fortunatley, Atheists have no book :). We’re just regular people with ethics and morals who just don’t see any proof of a God. That doesn’t make us evil. Not by a long shot.”
I too have discovered I’m an Atheist. And no, wwallace, I have no desire to cheat, steal, conquer, rape or any other thing you imagine Atheists do. Your are an ignorant, closed minded person that refuses to think for himself.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:34 pmWell, I Believe God is a Communist. A Dictator. not what Churches teach. I believe it was the will of the people to turn against God and Proclaim Freedom.
Comment by nofreedom! — December 22, 2005 @ 10:30 pm
Religion is a difficult issue… I felt exactly the way you described, and the way you have posted in the past – that I was not free. And then I read about Nihilism, which people also misunderstand. And Nietzsche, and I found freedom in myself. But. more tomorrow. Didn’t want to ignore you, but I need to go to bed.
Good night!
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:35 pmUnbelievable,
I did some digging around the web, and was able to dig up this article:
In addition, in 1941, Hitler told General Gerhart Engel: “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.” He never left the church. He was baptized a Roman Catholic as an infant and was a communicant and altar boy in his youth.
Was Hitler a Christian?
Not the most authoritative, I know, but it is a quick read, has references, and some links as well.
In a nutshell: He never entirely disavowed his Catholic beliefs but -as a good politician- was not above manipulating the religious beliefs of his followers for his own purposes.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:36 pmI too have discovered I’m an Atheist. And no, wwallace, I have no desire to cheat, steal, conquer, rape or any other thing you imagine Atheists do. Your are an ignorant, closed minded person that refuses to think for himself.
Comment by Bob Loblaw — December 22, 2005 @ 10:34 pm
Would love to talk to you more – will you be around tommorrow? If not, find me. I really believe we need to support one another. It’s hard to not be religious in this country. Poeple hate us for what they don’t understand, and I think we can alleviate that to some degree by supporting one another and having a presence in the country.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:37 pm“was not above manipulating the religious beliefs of his followers for his own purposes” Good one Gregor
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:39 pmThanks Gregor… Will check it out in the morning. Am in need of sleep… :)
Was fun doing battle against the trolls with you and Ryan today. Look forward to talking more (perhaps without wwallace around :)
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:39 pmOh, Gregor, you’re such a troll! Why bring unpleasant facts into it?
I wonder if Hitler ever thought he could make a play for the papacy. then he’d have been the uber-Catholic—literally!
hey, there’s a good idea for an alterna-history sci-fi novel.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:40 pmDid anyone else notice the link to Zundel that flashed by briefly?
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:43 pmI believe tomorrow is the beginning of the holiday season and thus when work is done the visiting commences so I will most likely be tied up.
December 22nd, 2005 at 10:44 pmgnite, i,ll b around tomor.
December 22nd, 2005 at 11:10 pmwwallace has proven that hitler was as much of a christian as george bush and the rest of the republican fascist he’s a member of. thanks for your hard work, and admission to your own racist values, and those of republicans. you’ve done america a service by admitting the criminality of you and your fellow republicans.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:34 amDecember 23rd, 2005 at 1:35 am
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:36 am
Apparently ‘fox’ has promoted the white supremacist – typical republican fascist values at work.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:37 amHitler himself identified as Christian.
The pope and bishop called Hitler a Christian.
His fellow Nazis during Nuremburg called Hitler a Christian.
Yet republican christian holocaust apologist say he isn’t based on NOTHING.
Republicans are such holocaust apologist, clearly they have more in common with the president of Iran, than americans.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:46 amLets see what hitler himself said about his religion:
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:50 am
wwallace lies and said hitler didn’t use ‘christianity’ to justify his policies, hitler’s own words say wwallace is as big of a liar as rove is.
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:05 am
Tami Birckner’s report on Stormfront was factual. It was designed to be an informational piece, not an editorial. That’s what journalism once was before it got corrupted by bias.
To rely upon the Anti-Defamation League for accurate, objective information about white nationalist websites like Stormfront is like asking a 5-year old kid to endorse broccoli; it ain’t gonna be credible. The ADL is a Jewish supremacist organization masquerading as a civil rights group. Their talking heads have repeatedly called for outright censorship of white nationalist groups and websites under the guise of “hate”. They’ve supported the incarceration of law-abiding internationally-renowned authors like David Irving merely for expressing public disagreement with the Official Authorized Version of the “Holocaust”. The ADL is the real hate group.
Besides, Stormfront is white nationalism with training wheels. If you want to see a WN website with “teeth”, check out the Vanguard News Network. The latest issue of our quarterly newspaper The Aryan Alternative is viewable on-line at:
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:39 amhttp://www.govnn.com/vnntaa3.pdf
For those that haven’t read this ‘evidence’ linked to by wwallace, I offer the following excerpt:
There’s also a section that’s aptly entitled ‘the problem of proof’ which basically admits that there’s no proof for the assertion other than some isolated (local) instances of individual nazis who were anti-christian or who were persecuted because they resisted some nazi policy. This is no different than how republicans currently slander the quakers as terrorists, even though they are peace activists. In fact it is IDENTICAL to that action – and yet republicans fascists and their trolls seem ridiculously unaware that they are NAZIS. That’s the saddest and most psychotic thing of all.
It’s funny how easily republicans like wwallace will simply ‘believe’ what a ‘link’ supposedly holds, without every doing the reading. Hitler loved little ignorant and naive souls like wwallace AKA IRI AKA MightyMoron
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:54 am[Comment deleted by admin.]
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:55 amWant to see just how bigotedthe Stormfront site is? Run this search on Google: jews site:stormfront.org
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:06 amre: unbelievable post 213 on 12-22-05, “atheists have no book”,i say thanks and will share with family, friends, and fellow earthlings alike.
December 23rd, 2005 at 5:07 amAs a WASP, albeit a queer WASP, this site (Stormfront) and the sniveling FOX affiliate who promoted it make me want to puke.
Whites still comprise at least 75% of America, and these idiots are afraid of whites being overrun? What they are REALLY afraid of is competing with and sharing resources with non-whites – in other words, not having dominate control of society as they have the last 300 years in America.
And to hear a former Reagan cabinet official is a member? Why am I not surprised?
Ya know, the so-called neocon theory of American military power is an excersize in white supremacy, if you ask me. We are attempting to retake control of the oil fields from those “rag heads” and make sure they are our good little American puppets.
December 23rd, 2005 at 8:55 amAbsolutely disgusting. I am a white female American and this kind of crap absolutely disgusts me. Just because you’re white, you think you are better then anyone else? I say no way. God created everyone equal. Everytime I see this kind of behavior, I will speak out against it because it is wrong. It is hateful, and we need to take a stand against hate.
Fox is not a news network. They are a propaganda machine and have zero credibility.
December 23rd, 2005 at 9:52 amSince it doesn’t seem to be clarified enough up on top:
WHNS, the TV station that calls itself “Fox Carolina,” is NOT a Fox-owned station or is controlled by Fox News Channel. It is a Fox affiliate owned by the Meredith Corporation, which is probably best known for Better Homes and Gardens magazine, but owns several TV stations throughout the country. Roger Ailes had nothing to do with this.
I am no admirer of Fox News Channel, but don’t drag it into a story that it had nothing to do with–and this information on the station’s ownership should’ve been included in the top post by ThinkProgress–but I guess inciting kneejerk “Faux News” comments was more important.
December 23rd, 2005 at 10:04 amWell, I Believe God is a Communist. A Dictator. not what Churches teach. I believe it was the will of the people to turn against God and Proclaim Freedom.
Comment by nofreedom! — December 22, 2005 @ 10:30 pm
Religion is a difficult issue… I felt exactly the way you described, and the way you have posted in the past – that I was not free. And then I read about Nihilism, which people also misunderstand. And Nietzsche, and I found freedom in myself. But. more tomorrow. Didn’t want to ignore you, but I need to go to bed.
Good night!
Comment by unbelievable — December 22, 2005 @ 10:35 pm
nofreedom,
Just want to start by saying that this fits into the topic of White Supremacy because freedom is a choice devoid of exclusion.
I’ve noticed you saying that you do not feel free. I wanted to respond, because I believe that the government, religion, Corporate America and just society as a whole is run by people who do not think you are free either. They think you are inferior to them, so they should have the right to exploit you. Some try to spin it by refering to Darwin’s “Survival of the Fittest” observation of life. Darwin was another devout Christian who, after much study of nature, eventually became an Atheist because he could not reconcile the lack of intelligent design in nature with the overwhelming proof of Evolution. But this is just more smoke and mirrors they like to use to better their own position at your expense. I wholeheartedly agree that this is not freedom. No matter how red, white and blue they try to paint it.
Anyway, I’ve discovered an ‘out’. I was reading about Nihilism, which most peole misunderstand, and camme to understand that freedom in our current system of hierarchy and prejudice is a state of mind. Nihilism is partly the belief that every decision is yours, no matter how odious the consequences. And this is where your freedom lies – inside of yourself. So to speak, you are your own God. You decide how to think, act, behave and feel. Granted a lot of those choices were influenced by your cultural indoctrination and life experiences, but they are still your choices. You personally choose each day whether or not you will or will not do certain things. In that choice is your freedom. Now, if you don’t go to work, and aren’t independently wealthy, there are consequences to your choice. But the choice was still 100% yours. I’ve had many arguments with people over the years who believe that they have no choice. It’s because they feel compelled by the consequences of that choice to be a victim to it. For example, if the idea of being evicted for not paying mortage or rent was unbearable, one might think that he or she had no choice but to go to work, and therefore would find the job to be a burden or an imposition to dread. I don’t believe this is true. You could do other things to avoid the consequences of being evicted besides going to work. Or you could choose to go to work and view work as something positive rather than the negative burden of obligation. It’s just a matter of being creative about it…. :)
So, in knowing that everything you do is YOUR choice, you might find the ultimate freedom you are seeking. I did. Keep me posted.
December 23rd, 2005 at 10:11 amunbelievable, atheists have many books – the most prominent being Marx’s Communist Manifesto and Mao’s Little Red Book. And of course Mein Kampf.
December 23rd, 2005 at 10:33 amThere is no book in Atheism equal to the Bible in Christianity or the Qu’an in Islam because Atheism is not a religion. It is a lack of religion.
Specific Atheists have written books, and Atheists read books, but their is no Atheist book.
December 23rd, 2005 at 11:24 amAmazing…I had just realized that fox news and bush white house were white supremist, kkk when this story popped up. It all makes sense now why republicans are so full of hate..
December 23rd, 2005 at 11:32 ami saved the cache of http://whns.com/Global/story.asp?s=4096439 here. you’re welcome.
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:21 pmThe story itself is so outrageous that one important little detail seems to have slipped through the cracks here…according to this report, this stormfront member Bob Whitaker is a former Reagan cabinet official? Can anybody verify this? I googled it, but couldn’t come up with anything.
Can you imagine the holy shitstorm Fox would raise if a former Clinton or Carter cabinet member was found to be a member of a white supremacist website?
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:55 pmGoogle search whitaker reagan site:stormfront.org
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:05 pmBesides, Stormfront is white nationalism with training wheels. If you want to see a WN website with “teethâ€, check out the Vanguard News Network. The latest issue of our quarterly newspaper The Aryan Alternative is viewable on-line at:
Comment by Anchorage Activist
Hey Anchorage Crackerist #240,
Go tend your sheep, and leave your little sister alone…
Why is the revelation that the FOX propaganda network thinks that a racist, skinhead, inbred, redneck, al cracker, “homoâ€cidal (sic), mostly southern, red state, right wing, neo-nazi, facist (they have “minders†who check the posts to make certain a poster’s views are compatible with the site’s facilitators “before†they’ll allow the post onto their forums), UNAmerican, genocidal, repuglican website is praiseworthy NOT A SURPRISE?
White Nationalism (the preservation of the “white†race) is supposedly their “aimâ€. Self preservation is a strong human instinct, therefore it stands to reason that whites should want to preserve certain aspects of their culture and heritage.
The problem with these “stormfront†Al Crackers is that they represent the most evil part of the white race. The part that believes that the only way the white race (and white purity) can be preserved is through ethnic cleansing, genocide, homo/homicide, and the subjugation of “inferior†races and persons. They are Hitlerian disciples who do not believe in freedom, democracy, and equality.
Even the name of their website is ominous and transparent- STORMFRONT.ORG.
I hope they realize that they are in fact a “global†minority, and that fomenting a race war in America will more than likely result in the realization of their paranoid fears. They should realize that they aren’t the only ones prepared to defend themselves, or take the offensive if the need arises.
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:15 pmI linked to and commented on this post and story here:
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/229668.htm
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:18 pmSince it doesn’t seem to be clarified enough up on top:
WHNS, the TV station that calls itself “Fox Carolina,†is NOT a Fox-owned station or is controlled by Fox News Channel. It is a Fox affiliate owned by the Meredith Corporation, which is probably best known for Better Homes and Gardens magazine, but owns several TV stations throughout the country. Roger Ailes had nothing to do with this.
I am no admirer of Fox News Channel, but don’t drag it into a story that it had nothing to do with–and this information on the station’s ownership should’ve been included in the top post by ThinkProgress–but I guess inciting kneejerk “Faux News†comments was more important.
Comment by Mark Jeffries — December 23, 2005 @ 10:04 am
________________________________________________
Funny you would defend Fox and Roger Ailes tooth and nail, but you mention NOTHING about the real story here. That a tv station in America actually aired a story about exploring a white supremacy site. What do you have to say about that Mark Jeffries?
December 23rd, 2005 at 5:29 pmWhat do you think I thought about it? Of course, it’s stupid. But going into kneejerk “Faux News” statements for something that the national Fox News operation had nothing to do with is just as stupid. There are more than enough things wrong with FNC to blame them for something they had nothing to do with–and would this even be on here if a Fox affiliate wasn’t involved?
December 23rd, 2005 at 6:05 pmRemember that Fox is a whorehouse network whose sole aim is to cause trouble and jack up their ratings with their “anything goes” mentality. So long as it raises their ratings and profit, it’s OK. And you thought the movie Network was satire? Nope, it’s reality. Good thing Peter Finch is dead, he would be horrified if se saw this reprehensible garbage.
December 23rd, 2005 at 10:21 pmQuestion:
Has anyone heard of an NBC affiliate running such a piece?
CBS?
ABC?
BBC?
CBC?
CNN?
MSNBC?
No? Just “a FOX affiliate”?
Oh. OK. Just checking. Perhaps the link to Fox is relevant after all, even though Fox has never taken any position as extreme as Stormfront’s. They’re not stupid, just dishonest.
December 24th, 2005 at 12:26 amYes, Gorgik, many networks have in fact done stories about white supremacists.
December 24th, 2005 at 2:32 pmMr. Jeffries, you just keep making the point that this story was pushed by an affilliate of fox news, and that they are not related to the fox news network. Well, they ARE related to FOX news even if they are an affilliate. Let’s see, they carry the FOX network logo, which means they also carry much of the national news put out by FOX, which means they represent the crap that comes out of FOX corporate. If it looks like a fox, talks like a fox, and smells like a fox, well then …. A FOX IS A FOX IS A FOX.
The real question is, where is the FCC in stopping this poison(hate)from being fed to the American public?
December 25th, 2005 at 11:16 am#264, The FCC is currently preoccupied with it’s attempt to shield those who are to stupid to use a V-chip, or the channel lock key or even the good ol’ on/off switch from having their waaaay too delicate, and prone to suggestion selves,from anything they don’t like. One FCC fool even said ,yes there are devices they could use, but why should they have too? Another example of the mighty (small)intellect of the right. They should just block every thing but KGOD, then they will be fine, or not.
December 25th, 2005 at 12:41 pmPost #263, I’d like you to back up your statement with proof. Have an article, a link? Nope, didn’t think so. Most everyone on this blog knows you’re a RW troll, so move along little buddy.
December 25th, 2005 at 8:53 pmlet me see, you anti-racist complain about a white website, while you watch your interaicial porn on the internet…yea, you guys are like queers, you suck up to whatever the jews tell you…
December 25th, 2005 at 10:51 pm#267
let me see, you anti-racist complain about a white website, while you watch your interaicial porn on the internet…yea, you guys are like queers, you suck up to whatever the jews tell you…
Comment by jissie james — December 25, 2005 @ 10:51 pm
Guess someone got coal in his stocking again this year… Isn’t Xmas supposed to make you fundy Bible-thumpers all warm and fuzzy???? Clearly you missed that message…
Look, it’s the right who seems to have these obsessions with demeaning sex. If you make something verboten, as your religion does with sex in general, it’s going to make people want it – and especially the kind that are degrating and demented. Therfore, it makes no sense that we’re the perverts. But much sense that you are. So, before you come in here with ignorant accusations Hitler Wannabe, you might wanna do a little home work and findout that the latest smut peddlers are all right-wing zealots. For starters, Scooter Libby comes to mind…
December 26th, 2005 at 8:48 amRight, so far as I can see it the history goes like this:
The Catholic Church made a deal with Mussolini. A reprehensable, disgusting and a complete negation of any “spiritual aspect” kind of a deal, in which they traded their silent objection to the deaths of countless Jews, for the Vatican. While later records show that they attempted a policy of quiet diplomacy, one needs only think of Robert Mugabe to realise how effective that idea is.
Further, Hitler by his own admission, and the words of those who knew him best, was a Christian. To basically state otherwise, is frankly stupid, because the overwhelming weight of the evidence now available is against you.
That said, his Riech killed plenty of non-jews. Just ask the Poles and the Russians. This was in a way an extension of Germany’s ages old idea of “Civilisation” or more accurately, killing off all of the locals and replacing them with your own citizenry. The Germans, to be blunt about it, were known as bloodthirsty murderous barbarians all the way back to pre-Rome.
Their’s was a culture which frowned on humour, humanity, and humming. Excellent soldiers, and pretty effective serial killers, all they needed was a depression and someone to shout at them to re-awaken that side of their natures. Germans simply like killing people. It’s why they have so many Goths, they are depressed that they aren’t allowed to do it anymore.
Anyway Hitler tapped into that with the full realisation that there weren’t enough Jews to go around (even pre-war they were a minority) and thus allowed the Germans to kill Polish and Russian peasants too. Gypsies were kept for human experiments (much like twins) and gays were killed because Hitler read the old testement. As I said earlier, the Catholic Church made a deal to keep quiet about it’s objections over this.
Thus one can say that Catholics have a lot to answer for. The Germans, frankly, were just following their natures, Hitler and Mussolini both actually believed they were doing the right thing, but the church knew it was supporting evil and carried on doing it anyway.
December 26th, 2005 at 5:21 pmThus one can say that Catholics have a lot to answer for. The Germans, frankly, were just following their natures, Hitler and Mussolini both actually believed they were doing the right thing, but the church knew it was supporting evil and carried on doing it anyway.
Comment by Anti-German — December 26, 2005 @ 5:21 pm
While it’s all equally contemptable, I’m pretty certain that the accomplice to a crime gets a lesser sentance than the perpetrator.
Even if the church opposed Hitler’s course, in spite of the fact that the Bible blatantly sets them up to hate all non-Catholics (even other Christians are not allowed to partake in Catholic mass offerings), the Swiss Guard was simply no match for the Third Reich.
I’m not convinced that the German people were as equally guilty, however. At least no more than we Americans currently are – or as much as the violence of our preditory evolution drives humanity in general – especially those most inclined to live by the utter nonsense of good and evil (i.e. religion).
All-in-all it’s a horrific example of the true power of religious zealotry and hatred for others who are different. Quite similar to the current regime running our country. Even if the right-wing fascists still supporting them won’t admit it.
December 26th, 2005 at 5:47 pmI disagree the fact is that what makes the Catholic church is supposed to be a spiritual guide, a sort of ultimate source of morality and infinite love. Or at least that is what they tell us Atheists the whole time. The Vatican, should have come second to that, and it didn’t. They should have been willing to sacrifice their lives for that, and they weren’t.
I like the whole bit with politely ignoring the poke at Aryan racism there though ;)
December 26th, 2005 at 6:38 pmCool – I’m also an Atheist. I grew up Catholic and have both Italian and German heritage. It’s been a bit like Anne Frank trying to reconcile her German and Jewish heritage without having to love or hate both.
Have you read the Bible? If so, you’ll know the immense amounts of contradiction to what the Catholic church claims to be… Personally, I like http://www.biblegateway.com for online searchability in throwing their own words back at the neocon trolls :), but find it to also be a bigger resource in determining how much hypocrasy and violence the religion supports. As a result, I think that while the Catholic church claims to be a spiritual guide, they don’t even allow people to talk directly with the invisible man upstairs, have had centuries of papal corruption and a current pedophile tendancy that leads me to believe that if they represent anything, which comes through their actions, it is the opposite of what they advertize. If the Catholic Church were a person, I think it would be found mentally incompetent.
Ignoring… well, yes… I see it did not escape you however :).
And if you haven’t already come across this, I’ve found it to be invaluable when the trolls call Hitler an Atheist: http://atheism.about.com/library/quotes/bl_q_AHitler.htm
Wow, and actual intelligent exchange without name calling or anger… and they call we atheists the heathens! :)
December 26th, 2005 at 7:40 pmJust about every Atheist has. It is funny the downright insane shit that is in holy books. It just strikes me as being rather odd that societies, accept the words of malnourished desert dwellers who didn’t wear hats as gospel. One man’s sunstroke it seems is another’s enlightenment it seems.
Now witht this whole thing about WWII, frankly, that was years ago. Bush isn’t the new Hitler, Hitler actually helped the German economy. Bush and his party is closer to the new Nero.
Also, as somebody who has actually seen the site in question, shit dudes. I mean, come on, isn’t this about when you go and burn down Fox News and send its random collection of weasel executives to the death camps? Some serious education is needed in this case, and Auschwits is the perfect place to do it.
December 27th, 2005 at 1:43 pmIf I came forward and said that God had spoken to me and I’d written a book based on it, not only would it NOT be accepted as gospel, but I would be the laughing stock of their holier-than-thou congregation… while Revelations can proclaim ‘the four corners of the earth’, when we know the earth is round, and yet the evangelicals will continue to waste this existence for the mystery happily-ever-after nirvana potentially hiding behind curtain #2. It’s a pretty good definition for insanity, I say…
Bush isn’t intelligent enough to be Hitler. Though I do think there are similarities that stem from their shared Fundamentalistic perspective – the whole “You’re either with us or against us” thing Bush spouts is freakishly similar to the whole “Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight do not deserve to live” absolutist view of good and evil. Neither is dealing with reality. Not a particularly favorable trait to find in your leader…
So, what’s with the moniker?
December 27th, 2005 at 2:13 pmEh, just what I figured fit the first post best.
That said, really, the whole thing with George is that he isn’t stupid. Think about it, who else in the history of American politics has been able to get away with all the shit Bush has, [i] and still been able to blame it all on the second banana? [/i]
I mean, face it, if you are Cheney you have life pretty rough. First black Deputy President, so you can’t exactly complain, but also the guy who gets credited with 90% of Bush’s hair brained schemes. The other 10% is all Rove apparently.
Bush, as the guy in charge has this miraculous power of making the buck stop elsewhere, and there is a particular kind of intellegence that goes with that. I mean, for crap sakes, he downright lied about Iraq to congress and then proceded to more or less say “Well it’s your fault for trusting me” in 2004. And he got away with it. That my friend, is not a stupid man.
Why he wants America to destroy the American Ideal I don’t know, but face it, not much of what he has screwed up was by accident. A lot of it is precisely what he said he would do. Maybe Bush is a secret Taliban plant or something, but what has thus far happened in America, is not the degree of decay you get even when a stupid patriot is in power.
December 27th, 2005 at 3:02 pmBush actually wants America to fail.
Fox news and all rightwingers are from satan and want to infiltrate our culture and bring down our right to abort children! See….I just summed it up in under 25 words…brevity is lost on the left….
December 27th, 2005 at 4:20 pmSeriously, Bush has spent the treasury, attempted to insure the debts racked up in his reign continue long into the future, reduced the benefits to war veterans (which just goes to show how much he really supports the guys over in Iraq) and generally been entirely crooked, and he still gets support from the most vocal “patriots”.
This guy ain’t stupid. Possibly evil, but not stupid.
December 27th, 2005 at 5:55 pmThat my friend, is not a stupid man.
No, just ignorant. And that’s where I believe the danger lies…
Actually I think his ability to lead is less about his or his Administration’s intelligence and more about the American people’s ignorance. They relied on the notion that people would have faith in them. And a large percent of the people did. Intelligent by design or just more of the blind leading the blind? Either way, it’s not going so well.
December 27th, 2005 at 6:14 pmBush actually wants America to fail.
Comment by Peace — December 27, 2005 @ 3:02 pm
I read or saw something on how Ronald Reagan, also an Evangelical believed that because the Rapture was going to occur during his life time, that there was no need for concern about the future or conservation of anything especially resources. As you know, George Bush’s idol is Ronald Reagan, depsite that the old man died before the Rapture (since there is no such thing), and Bush now believes it will happen during his life time. As a result, he runs on the notion that tommorrw does not matter so much. This is why seperation of church and state is not only essential, but mandatory for our country. Though it feels well on it’s way to being a theocracy when the school District where I work avoids evolution to the point that a girl in one of my classes said that it was a stupid nothion to think we came from a fish. I told her it was actually first a singled celled organism, which she claimed was just as stupid. I then reminder her casually that in the matter of nine months she had grown from a single celled organism (her mother’s egg) into a baby… That’s Bush’s America for you.
December 27th, 2005 at 6:21 pmFox news and all rightwingers are from satan and want to infiltrate our culture and bring down our right to abort children! See….I just summed it up in under 25 words…brevity is lost on the left….
Comment by turk fowler — December 27, 2005 @ 4:20 pm
Brevity? Isn’t the Bible a couple thousand pages?
Besides, you got our motto wrong. Most of us are non-religious free thinkers who don’t believe in Satan… Fewer of us have abortions than your teenage daughters… and we call it FAUX “News” because it’s not news at all…
December 27th, 2005 at 6:25 pmfirst of all, i DOUBT the “white race” will disappear in 500 years, anymore than the “black race” will disappear. But if it did, so what. What do I care if years from now, long long after i’m dead, all people on the planet earth are various shades of brown, especially if they are living in peace? (I would be far more saddened to know that 500 years from now we are still arguing about “race”). There is a thinly disguised hatred there that some folks wont pick up on, and which the users of stormfront.org are deluding themselves about– saying it would be bad if the “white race” were to disappear implies that white folks are better. I think if more white people had some color in their family tree there would be less racism. Well, I can hope anyway.
I am assuming that FoxNews was working on the supposition that stormfront.org’s own words were damning enough that they didnt need to supply counterargument. . . but if so they still did a horrible job of it– it DOES seem like a puff-piece promoting the website as “fostering diversity.”
December 29th, 2005 at 2:30 pmI find it amusing that some white people call themselves “Aryans.” The Aryans were a nomadic race of people who came from the Caucusus of Russia, and conquered many nations such as the early Indian civilization. These people were probably nothing like modern-day “Aryans” see themselves; they were most likely similar in appearance to Indians or Eastern Russian people.
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