The Department of Justice Memo, Debunked
The Department of Justice Memo, Debunked
The Department of Justice has released a memo defending President Bush’s warrantless domestic spying argument. There are two main arguments:
1) Any limitations FISA places on the President’s authority to issue warrantless domestic searches are unconstitutional, and
2) Congress gave the President authority to issue warrantless domestic searches
It doesn’t seem like the DOJ has their heart in the first argument. They devote just two paragraphs out of a five page memo to this point. Most of that space is filled by caselaw decided before FISA even became law, making it largely irrelevant since FISA speaks directly to warrantless spying on Americans and declares it illegal.
Like other defenders of the President’s program, they place considerable emphasis on a 2002 decision by the FISA Court of Appeals. There are two important things to remember about that case:
- The FISA appeals court explicitly says it’s not addressing the issue (”It was incumbent upon the [Truong] court, therefore, to determine the boundaries of that constitutional authority [to conduct warrantless searches]…The question before us is the reverse…”)
- The FISA appeals court acknowledges the cases it mentions were decided before FISA and didn’t consider the statute (”We reiterate that Truong dealt with a pre-FISA surveillance…it had no occasion to consider the application of the statute…”)
In other words, there is a reason that the DOJ is giving short shrift to this argument. There is little evidence to substantiate it.
The rest of the memo is devoted to arguing that the 9/18/01 Authorization for the Use of Military Force (AUMF) against al-Qaeda authorized the President’s actions. This argument doesn’t hold water either:
1. The administration tried to get language inserted into the AUMF that would have authorized them to take actions “in the United States.” They failed. [Tom Daschle, 12/23/05]
2. Federal law says that “exclusive means” to conduct electronic surveillance is FISA and Title III (which governs the use of wiretaps by law enforcement). Relying on the AUMF, the administration concedes that neither of those two statutes were used. Federal law says that any surveillance that is not conducted under those two statues is illegal. [18 U.S.C. 2551(2)(f); 50 U.S.C. 1809(a)]
3. FISA has a limited exception that allows warrantless domestic wiretaps after a war is declared, but it only lasts 15 days. The Bush administration program has been going on for more than four years. [50 U.S.C. 1811]
The Justice Department advances two theories about why Bush’s warrantless domestic surveillance program was legal and both of them fail. The truth is simple: the program was illegal because it violated federal criminal law.
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Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Grandma had her hands full beating off the Indians:
ALITO DEFENDS WIRETAPS
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/US/Supreme_Court
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:20 pmJohn Yoo’s life’s work, his crowning achievment, is a despicable lie and failure, and he has harmed the Republic more than anyone in recent history.
You did a heckuva job, Yoo!
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:21 pmCongress did not authorize warrantless eavesdropping. I think now the lawmakers and the American people are seeing that President Bush has overstepped the line. The president is not above the law. I smell impeachment.
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:23 pmThank you for this!
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:24 pmOn the AUMF, you forgot that when Gonzales was asked why they didn’t just ask Congress to change the law, he responded that Congress told the administration that they wouldn’t change the law, further putting the lie to the AUMF authorized it point.
#2 – Yoo was in the NYTimes today.
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:28 pmIndeed, go ThinkProgress. I worry, though, that the general public will buy the administration’s arguments rather than critically considering the minutiae of the law.
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:28 pmI hope they can’t spin their way out of this.
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:33 pm#6
You are probably right. This stuff is way over most people’s heads.
And that pesky little Think Progress website is messing up the rhetoric. (sarcastic)
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:34 pmI hope they can’t spin their way out of this.
Well … it IS the law after all. I can’t think of another medium that’s “spun” more often … maybe religion.
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:35 pm“And we would have had it too, if it wasn’t for those darn kids.”
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:36 pmI’ve heard people refer to “x” argument as “a bunch of bunk”. If that is the case, then why do we ‘debunk’ things? Shouldn’t it be “bunkiness revealed” or something like that?
Sorry…home today…not feeling well…clearly.
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:36 pmInteresting how Berto invokes constitutional authority but cites case law. You think he’s afraid to mention what the constitution actually says?
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:37 pmThe more the Bushco group talks or writes, the more guilty they appear.
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:40 pmHeckuva job Yooie…or would it be “Yooper”.
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:40 pmThis is probably not going to be resolved until Bush is long gone. The arguing can last for years, as the interpretation of the law is disagreed on. Judges will make decisions, and those decisions will be taken as from the “left” or from the “right”. And arguing will continue.
What ever happened to the days when the system was believed in by all, and judgements were taken seriously. The system has been illigitamized by both Dems and Repubs not willing to take what they get, and stop whining about it.
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:41 pmJudges will make decisions, and those decisions will be taken as from the “left†or from the “rightâ€. And arguing will continue.
Arguing and spin may continue, but when judges make decisions, those are the standing and applicable law.
The Administration can spin, bob, and weave all it likes. But when this comes to court, if they don’t have real legal arguments that make sense to the judges, it will all be for naught.
Somehow, I think that Bush’s wish that “2-0-6 will be better than 2-0-5″ (JibJab) isn’t going to come true. I think he’s on Santa’s “naughty” list.
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:45 pmIts clear that Bush broke the law and doesn’t really care, actually said he will continue to do so. Hmmm, I feel I have the same rights so I won’t be paying those pesky taxes this year… you know all that”looping” of paperwork is such a headache so I won’t be following standard procedure. I will also definately be speeding and probably drivng wrecklessly (without a license I might add) on my way home today. Man its Party Time!
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:47 pmThe current admin is getting away with so much because they are thinking of ways to do things in new, innovative ways which are so underhanded and subversive, no one else was prepared or thought of ways to counter act it, because these new underhanded ways cross lines that have never been crossed.
Kinda like how insurgents and terrorists use new ways to be effective, because it crosses the line in ways no one else thought of, or was prepared for.
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:48 pmdoes bushie own the DOJ?….SCARY out there folks. Impeach and REMOVE Americas problem. Why is Al Capoone laughing?
December 23rd, 2005 at 12:55 pm6 Super edo
I think you got the wrong idea. The public is overwhelmingly disturbed by this.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:01 pmWhatever authority the administration claims was granted the President by the authorization to use force in Afghanistan (and it is questionable to say the least whether this included the right to surveil U.S. citizens in the U.S.) was not “indefinite or perpetual” but ended with the cessation of active combat in Afghanistan, according to the U.S. Supreme Court in the 2003 Hamdi Case (Section II of the Majority Opinion). It thus ended almost as soon as Bush began to exercise it.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:05 pmTo the tune of the Lumberjack Song…
I’m George Bush and I admit no err
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:05 pmI break the law and I really don’t care
Do all of you understand that as our avenues of protest are shutdown, i.e. government has ceased to listen to us, they have and are destroying the infrastructure of America, that it is time to do what our forefathers did in 1776, revolt! It is our right, or did they waste their words on a public that would rather bury their collective heads in the sand and pretend that everything is hunky dory.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:08 pmRead:
Glenn Greenwald
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:10 pm#23
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:10 pmI dress in womans clothing and hang around in bars
(with Karl)
#20 – Could be… but I have little faith in the people since Bush was re-elected (notwithstanding the possible illegitimacy of his win).
Please make me wrong, American people! Dammit!! Why do you have such short attention spans?
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:11 pmIt is my understanding that the impeachment process is a joint effort between the House and the Senate. The actual division of labor, if you will, is not germaine to the point for which I am striving. I do not see where the Judical Branch necessarily has any say in the process. In Clinton’s case there were no laws broken that related to the security of this Country nor the Civil Rights of any citizen, with the possible exceptions of Clinton and Lewenski. Given that position it is quite possible that the House could find sufficient cause in and of the act of directing the wiretapping without going to the Justice Department. The Senate, by the same logic could vote to remove Bush and Cheney from office without any other case law or opinion. The Constitution gives each (House and Senate) the power. The argument that They (B and C)are entitled to a fair trial by a jusy of their peers is moot as that is just exactly what the impeachment process is all about. I submit that is possible, however improbable, that the House could meet Saturday and vote to impeach and the Senate could vote to remove them from office on Christmas Day. All it would take is honesty, integrity, determination and sufficient votes, Wouldn’t that be a nice Christmas present?
Please educate me if I am wrong on my concept. Comments on the possibilities are not necessary!
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:14 pm25
Is that what the forefathers did?
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:14 pmFISA has a limited exception that allows warrantless domestic wiretaps after a war is declared, but it only lasts 15 days.
Besides which, war hasn’t been declared.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:15 pmDispite wannabe king codpiece and his defending courtesan’s
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:16 pmbest efforts to make this complicated, it really
comes down to flouting the law, and “Rule of law,
not men” is pretty easy to understand.
Their arguments are so lame that you can tell
they got nothing.
That 2002 FISC appeal transcript is creepy. Ted Olson argues the case. John Yoo is present and had clerked for Judge Silberman. The creepy thing is that the three judge panel has no idea that the Justice Department representatives standing before them have been conspiring with the administration to completely circumvent the very law they are arguing about. This was the first ever meeting of a FISA court of review. The government was the only party to the appeal. Silberman, at least, was extremely sympathetic to the government. The government knew almost certainly that the court would uphold their appeal. What do you bet that Olson (Yoo) was putting language into the record that could later be claimed (like now) as establishing legal basis for Bush’s project (unbeknownst to the court)? Think of it as a throw-down brief.
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/hrng090902.htm
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:17 pmDress this pig in as much legal mumbo jumbo as you want, it’s still a pig. There was a crime, clearly it should be investigated and IMPEACHMENT should begin immediately.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:18 pmThese guys will stop at nothing including breaking the law to do what ever they want. What amazes me is that they do it with a straight face. I know they must be happy everytime the Democrats roll over and play dead. The Democratic Party has NO GUTS and don’t deserve to be in power. The keep getting punked by a guy who was appointed by the Supreme Court and who’s victory in Ohio was tainted by election fraud.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:18 pmThe Department of Justice Memo, Debunked
Great piece from Think Progress on the The Department of Justice has released a memo defending President BushÂ’s warrantless domestic spying argument.
They go and do a great job, using the (Dare I say it) LAW of the United States.
Go read, learn,…
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:19 pm#27 Your close but I think you a little off base. The only branch that can impeach the president is the HOUSE. Once the House impeaches the President, then it is the SENATES job to act as the court. So, the SENATE cannot begin the Impeachment process. Only the HOUSE can.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:26 pmHere’s a few suggestion/comments for all of you progressives who are worried about the erosion of your civil liberties:
a.) ceasing international phone calls to suspected terrorists WILL cut down on government surveillance.
b.) inhale helium to disguise your voices if you absolutely MUST discuss sensitive matters (i.e. how much you dislike your sister-in-laws tofu “turkey” or the shoe sole quality of your brother’s tofutti pie.)
c.) forego trips to London – with their new 24/7 camera coverage, movement around the city will be constantly observed.
Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukuh to all!!
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:26 pmImpeaching Chimpy will be much more effective at
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:29 pmpreserving civil liberties.
ddI can guarantee you folks that you do not want to even attempt to impeach Bush over the wiretappin of amurkans. Go for the breaking of the law, but not the wiretapping itself.
The reason? Bush will go to the people, and remember he has high poll numbeers on security issues, telling the people all he was trying to do was make a safer amurka. Wanted to keep the terrist out.
You can impeach a president on his strong point, it is any idiotic move. That is why the dems are being silent on this.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:31 pmAphro… That it concerns only international calls is a myth already proved bunkish! You know this. If you do not agree with the feminists, anti-war activists, enviros that were tapped thats fine but as an American do you not support their right to have these views without being spied on? Or will you only complain when a democrat gets elected and uses this precedant set by your beloved Bush to spy on white power groups and rich people?
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:34 pmIts nearly time for my daredevil drive home… may be I should start drinking… theres no laws anymore right?
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:38 pm#37
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:39 pmMight I suggest a false moustache and glasses (opaque), and a tutu-and a sign-Ballerinas for justice-fools ‘em everytime, oh, lose the pink feather bowa(boa).
Conservatism is dead in America. Long live liberalism and progressive politics. Now let’s clean up the mess they left.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:40 pmLet’s see here…
1) Bush and former presidents, mostly Bush in the final days, had information that directly told them that the attack on 9/11 was going to happen.
2) Bush attacks Afganistan to rid us of the taliban, who was suppose to be behind the attacks. Yet, bush tells us that he is “not worried about Osama” and continues to let him slip through the cracks to attack us another day.
3) Then Bush lies to America about Iraq having WMD’s, and a link to Osama. Bush declares war on Iraq, against advise of Congress and the UN, and attacks anyway. Later we find out that everything was a lie.
4) Now we find out that Bush is spying on Americans and we are told that it is for National Security. And many Americans are cowardly sheep that all huddle together in fear and support this maniac. These people argue that he is protecting us, but the sane and intelligent people see it for what it really is: An attempt to make our great country governed by a KING.
If we as Americans do not DEMAND that the HOUSE impeaches the ENTIRE ADMINISTRATION NOW, we are the only people that we can blame. We have it in our power to stop this, but we need to do it as a nation. This bickering about Republicans or Demacrates is rediculous. I also would very much ask that we get rid of this 2 part policy. This is the most rediculous thing we could have ever created.
This 2 party system, divides the country more and tears it appart. We should have officials in the government that represent the people, not a party.
Just my 2 cents.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:40 pmRemove Bush… While I agree, I also acknowldge that as a pipe dream.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:45 pmThe real reason Yoo is such an ass:
http://www.freetheflash.com/images/43.htm
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:47 pmgood vibes, yes but without someone starting dialog or pointing something like this out things may never change. It’s amazing that without talking about it, it will never come to light.
I know that I will never see anything like this happen, but if I can atleast get someone to think about it perhaps in the future something similar to my suggestion may come true.
I doubt it, but one can always hope.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:47 pmI think Digby has it right:
9/11 changed everything. Suddenly the he-men of WalMart and the NRA leaped into Big Brother’s arms and shrieked “save me, save me! Do what ever you have to do, they’re trying to kill us all!” They now look to Daddy Government not to discipline the children, but to check under the bed for them every night, reassure them that the boogeyman won’t hurt them and then read them a nice bedtime story about spreading freedom and democracy. It turns out that underneath all this swaggering bravado, the Republicans aren’t the Daddy party — they’re the baby party.
Turn it around on Rove:
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:50 pmAmericans don’t want a sissy “king” who is afraid
of his own people.
Americans don’t need “Big Brother” to monitor
their lives.
Go hide in Crawford if you are scared and take
the courtesan wing-nuts with you.
mighty aphrodite
So you suggest non-lawbreakers have nothing to hide, then you make suggestions for (lawbreakers?)to avoid detection? You’ve become flippant. Back into your box, honey.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:51 pmLet us not quibble on the finer points of law-the son of a bitch is spying on Americans and he should be tried in court and impeached. How did it come to pass that we get a president with an IQ of some very low number, doesn’t read the paper or seek out knowledge that is contrary to his worldview-methinks I mispoke, he is too stupid to have a worldview. How does it feel to have a president, stupid by orders of magnitude never before encountered in the history of this country telling you about disasemblers and then giving the definition of that word so we won’t be confused-we are sooo dumb, actually he is both a disassembler, of our country, and a dissembler, or more to the point, a lying cur.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:59 pm# 1 I didn’t know they gave handjobs
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:07 pmLet us not quibble on the finer points of law-the son of a bitch is spying on Americans and he should be tried in court and impeached. How did it come to pass that we get a president with an IQ of some very low number, doesn’t read the paper or seek out knowledge that is contrary to his worldview-methinks I mispoke, he is too stupid to have a worldview. How does it feel to have a president, stupid by orders of magnitude never before encountered in the history of this country telling you about disasemblers and then giving the definition of that word so we won’t be confused-we are sooo dumb, actually he is both a disassembler, of our country, and a dissembler, or more to the point, a lying cur.
Comment by burnie
How does it feel to be a first class dumbass? Everything you wrote is demonstrably wrong. But that’s OK, do me a favor and try and get this in your local paper so everyone can read it. USA! USA! USA!
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:25 pmChristmas at IRI’s house:
http://www.tamponcrafts.com/
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:32 pmThat’s not much of a debunking. Congress can’t pass laws that infringe on the President’s Article II authority. A fair, but not perfect analogy is this: Congress can’t pass a law preventing the President from vetoing a bill or to keep him from pardoning someone.
In the same (oversimplified) vein, Congress can’t pass laws infringing on Presidential authority as Commander in Chief.
We need to calm down, because this issue is a loser for us not only in the red states but with the centrists in the blues too.
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:35 pm#39 – Dear Good Vibes, Go after violent Nazi’s all you want! But how pathetic that you consider being “rich” a crime or serious threat. But your “examples” are good illustrations of the envious nature of progs. (Is that why finding a “happy progressive” is virtually impossible?? Actually, since the term “happy progressive” is an oxymoron, it IS impossible.)
‘You know’ paranoid feminists and peace activists have a tendency to fall off the rails every now and then. (I apologize for presuming to know what you “think” – but your similar presumption is singularly egocentric.) Eco-terrorists are just that – and they should be prosecuted within the FULL extent of the law. Tree spiking and arson are detestable crimes and Canada’s slow extradition of the refuge seeking Victoria BC ELF says it all.
Should you wish to discuss the Clinton administration’s surveillance of paranoid para-military groups, be my guest. (I wish they had been able to get a handle on that homicidal maniac Timothy McVeigh or the Islamic terrorists in our midsts but some people are not up to the task to which they are called – two names that leap to mind are Sandy Berger and Janet Reno.)
Sadly, there is one more surveillance team for you to worry about with the tragic suicide of ecoterrorist, Bill Rodgers in Arizona. If you put a bag over your head to acieve a quick and inexpensive disguise, make sure it is NOT plastic!!!!
Merry Christmas & Happy Chanukah
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:36 pmHey, Who let the trolls out?
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:40 pmI’ve spent the better part of a week attempting to debunk this myth on one of the few Right-wing whack job sites, having them say this was authorized under FISA, then it wasn’t, that it was part of the Constitution, then it was authorized by the AUMF. Seemingly, the argument changes every time it’s convenient. Thanks for this, assuming I haven’t yet been banned, I’ll post it there.
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:43 pmmeant… few right wing sites that allow comments..
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:45 pmBTW Aphro, please remember it was the Republican Congress that blocked Clinton’s attempt to have roving wiretaps fearing “4th ammendment” concerns, and yet, after 9/11 adopted Clinton’s recommendations on how to fight terrorism wholecloth, making it part of the un”Patriot Act.”
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:46 pm#49 – Dear CCCCarl – My apologies to the nervous stuttering public, but the neurotic and paranoid progs out there are demonstrating irrational angst.
“So you suggest non-lawbreakers have nothing to hide, then you make suggestions for (lawbreakers?)to avoid detection?”
Comment by CCCCarl
****Carl, I hate to disappoint you but “they” aren’t interested in your undoubtedly ‘fascinating’ life – you must be disappointed! They don’t give a cow fatulence in h*ll if you subscribe to the Nation, Mother Jones, the Washington Spectator, Free Thinker.
As for “suggestions for lawbreakers”, I’m sure the TSA, FBI, ATF, CIA, NSA, CFR, VWF, DAR, the local ELK lodge and others will be on the look-out for the clever bag disguises fashionable with the proletariat.
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:52 pmPeeb – With Clinton’s enormous popularity, he might have considered spending some political capital, ala Reagan, to safe guard the public (especially after the foiled millenium plot and the firtst WTC bombing). But apparently, he was pre-occupied
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:57 pmThat’s right, mighty. There will always be someone to defend you, sweetheart.
http://www.orange32.com/porkchop/
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:59 pm#61, MA – well not all of the terrorist attacks are actually from foriegn soil. The 1993 attack of the WTC was performed with knowledge and co-operation from the FBI. An FBI agent was a member of this group, in order to spy on them and their plans.
The government had plenty of information about the attacks on 9/11, so why was nothing done? Why did the Secret Service Forcibly move the VP to a bunker, but they did nothing to the president who was in the open and being broadcast live? Also, how can the VP control the military? The president did not move for more than 7 minutes after being told we were under attack, so how could he have instructed the VP to take control of the Military. The anwer: This power was already given before the attacks.
If people would just stop taking the word of this corrupt government and start asking questions about the events, this problem would open up like a St. Mount Hellens.
Open your eyes and start asking questions. Stop just accepting things that are not logically possible.
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:07 pmThanks, Carl – but, No thanks!!!
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:11 pmSpeaking of preoccupied, what about that August 6th PDB?
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:11 pmYou know, the one Condi lied about?
Clark seemed sorta concerned too, but wasn’t
John Asshat… I mean Ashcroft making the War on Drugs
his big focus?
And Gorgie? He was cutting brush, in August, in Texas,
like any good prep-school fake Texan would.
Uncle Fester,
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:15 pmAren’t the powers you use, pardoning and the veto pardon, specifically layed out in the Constitution? Article 11 does not specifically allow warrantless searches on an American, in fact the Constitution specifically prohibits it. That was one of the causes our forefathers were most concerned with, the warrantless searches being carried out by the British.
This article 11 argument is rubbish. It seems to say that the President can do anything he wants– how are we a democracy then? And if the President has this power so clearly all he had to do was go to the courts and prove that the FISA law was unconstitutional. Why have FISA or any other law for that matter? If the President decides tomorrow that gun ownership undermines our security, can he then take everyone’s guns? He is all powerful in your interpretation.
What is wrong with you people? Are your liberties so worthless that you hand them over so readily after one attack.
“What is wrong with you people? Are your liberties so worthless that you hand them over so readily after one attack.”
Hear, hear.
When did Americans become such chickens?
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:21 pm“What is wrong with you people? Are your liberties so worthless that you hand them over so readily after one attack.â€
Hear, hear.
When did Americans become such chickens?
Comment by afterthought
Who, and in what country says we’re chickens?
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:41 pmUh oh. More illegal searches of American citizens. Our President definitely has his shit together.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. officials have secretly monitored radiation levels at Muslim sites, including mosques and private homes, since September 11, 2001 as part of a top secret program searching for nuclear bombs, U.S. News and World Report said on Friday.
The news magazine said in its online edition that the far-reaching program covered more than a hundred sites in the Washington, D.C., area and at least five other cities.
“In numerous cases, the monitoring required investigators to go on to the property under surveillance, although no search warrants or court orders were ever obtained, according to those with knowledge of the program,” the magazine said.
The report comes a week after revelations that the Bush administration had authorized eavesdropping on people in the United States. U.S. President George W. Bush has defended that covert program and vowed to continue the practice, saying it was vital to protect the country.
Senior U.S. officials, including FBI Director Robert Mueller, have repeatedly said Islamic militants appeared intent on acquiring weapons of mass destruction for an attack against the United States.
Mueller said in February he was “very concerned with the growing body of sensitive reporting that continues to show al Qaeda’s clear intention to obtain and ultimately use some form of chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-energy explosives material in its attacks against America.”
An FBI spokesman declined to confirm or deny the U.S. News and World Report article and said, “We can’t talk about a classified program but we can talk about the US News reporter who broke the story. In fact we’re going to torture him until he tells us who it was that leaked the story and then we’re going to hang that son-of-bitch.”
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2005-12-23T195408Z_01_FOR371616_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-USA-SURVEILLANCE.xml&rpc=22
Ok, so I made that last part up. It felt good to do it though. USA! USA! USA!
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:51 pm#63 – OK, RB, here’s a question – “The 1993 attack of the WTC was performed with knowledge and co-operation from the FBI. An FBI agent was a member of this group, in order to spy on them and their plans.” Link please??? (Don’t bother if the link is Al Jazeera – they’re linked on TP enough(!!) or Hamas, Hezbollah etc.)
December 23rd, 2005 at 5:33 pmI-Right-I
Frankly, there is ZERO infringement concern monitoring radiation levels wherever they may be, precisely because it can be done without intrusion of any kind. We monitor ships entering ports using roving Geiger meters.
It is a little short sighted though to think that only Muslims would be interested. Probably the most likely of suspects would be islamic radicals, but certainly not the only.
One more thing, as WMD go, dirty bombs are pretty crappy, and unless it’s in a confined space, so are chem weapons.
What’s funny/ironic is that Bush the Lesser said Houssien was working on Bio-Weapon programs because he had Ricin. Now Ricin is a poison – very toxic – and can be made into a bioweapon – but it’s a lousy one, its essentially just an aerosolized toxin, not a germ-agent, and its effects are much more easily replicable by cheaper and more easily obtained chemical agents, so Bush was really misleading and overstating Houssiens intent. Unless Houssien’s government was profoundly stupid, they were not, in fact, using Ricin for Bioweapon activities, but rather using it for what it is best for, a highly lethal ingestion poison. Not that it’s a surprise that Bush would lie, the point is, when we talk about the excesses of this President, they include distortions, gross ommissions, and outright falsehoods, and yet, we’re told to TRUST HIM.
I think I’ll choose not to.
December 23rd, 2005 at 7:57 pmMighty Aph..
A question for you, who is currently President?
Another question, who has both houses of Congress and 7 of 9 Supreme court justices coming from their party?
The point is, focus, what Clinton may or may not have failed in hardly excuses an attempt to say that wartime gives the President unlimited authority.
Much has been written behind the scenes by these yuckel-heads that the power of the Executive has been inappropriately limited since Nixon. Is it really a shock to you that they would seek to grab power when the opportunity arose? Alito wrote about this need to reinfoce the Executive when he was a law clerk.
Given that, the protestations, including yours, regarding Clinton’s excesses ring hollow. You didn’t want him exceeding his authority then, but condemn him after the fact for doing FAR more than you felt he should. Unfortunately, you don’t get to eat your cake and have it too. Clinton had been President less than 6 months when WTC happened, just how much authority do you think Congress would give him?
The thing is, Clinton’s not President, we need to address this situation, a President claiming he had authority when at the time his own AG argued for MORE authority to do exactly this, and was shot down by Congress (he should have gone to SCOTUS anyway), but then Bush has the audacity to come before the US populace and claim he had it all along. He no more believes that (or ought not given what Congress told him then), than I do.
Peeb
December 23rd, 2005 at 8:04 pmRegarding the 15 days. TP leaves out the section that expands on the duration and covers extensions. Chap I, subchapter 36. Issuance of order.
Looks like the “debunk” was debunked quite easily.
December 23rd, 2005 at 8:08 pmClaims of executive power that are essentially un-Constitutional are truly dangerous. Wiretaps without court orders are modern technological examples of search and seizures without warrants. They are examples of undermining the 5th Amendment in the Bill of Rights.
Rule of law should always trump the whims of any officeholder. Our Founding Fathers would have been outraged over Bush’s actions and claims of executive powers!
December 24th, 2005 at 12:45 am66 # -“What is wrong with you people? Are your liberties so worthless that you hand them over so readily after one attack?â€
Very well put, sgiff. If you have read my epic email (which is listed below as Mr. Ward) the answer would be clear. As for the answer of 68 # I-RIGHT-I: “Who, and in what country says we’re chickens?†All he need do is look in the mirror.
Now my email:
Mr. Ward,
My name is Armando Gomez, an ardent listener to your nightly radio spot. Right now I’m putting together this email for you as I’m listening to your program, and I may have the answer to the confusing question why Americans are voting against their own self interests. And the basic answer is that their (White America) sense of history and self-worth has come into question. To them this is unacceptable—at any and all cost; which is what’s happening at this moment. Realistically, all this began to manifest when Ronald Reagan was elected as president. But in all honestly, I believe it really started with the Vietnam War and its shocking and unacceptable conclusion: we lost. And it wasn’t just the war we lost—we also lost our president, Richard Nixon. This sent a shock wave, border to border and coast to coast of White America. This proved that the war was a phony and President Nixon a liar. This forced Americans to question the very core of their moral foundation and their sense of purpose—their purpose of self-righteous, which they believe is their destiny and guided by the Light from above. All this imploded when Nixon tanked. But within a couple of years a new and up coming Right Wing movement (the neo-conservatives) went to work, scoring one victory after another in their religious sectors, in their communities. And I believe all this was spearheaded by the Heritage Foundation. The Foundation’s tactics: Accuse the liberals of anti-family, anti-God, anti-America, anti-mother, anti-marriage, anti-fetus and in short: anti-liberal all around. With the help of the “liberal†media they made the word liberal an expletive (remember the “L†word?). And all this was funded by the multi-right wing millionaires and corporations. And I believe you know who and what they are. What this movement accomplishes was to exonerate America of its failures, and blame “The Fall†on the dirty, rotten, and back-stabbing liberals. And these Americans went for it, hook, line, and sinker. They had no choice: To accept otherwise, they would have to question their entire “white†history. Without this history—or myth—they will have to accept a more realistic one—according to Ward Churchill. White Americans found that to be totally unacceptable. And for these Americans they are ready to accept any politician, any judge, and any president—any lie—that’ll tell them what they want to hear, especially when Jesus Christ is now considered as part of their American history. That’s why they are more than ready to believe such phonies as Reagan, the first Bush, and this latest disgrace, Bush, Jr. But with the present Americans, it gets worse: they are willing to sacrifice their children’s and their grandchildren’s future, just so they can either be swept up by the Rapture in time or die in their sleep; the complete misery of others had become their sinful and foremost pleasure. Mr. Ward, to me these are the worst and the most rotten cowards any nation unfortunately is straddled with; stinking vermin who aren’t fit to be scurrying about. Their malicious intentions toward Social Security, Medicare, pensions, childcare, the Iraq War and the support for the bankruptcy bill are but short examples of how far these Americans have sunk. The talk I hear is that these Americans are the dumbest pile of rocks on the planet. Wrong: It’s worse. Sept. 11 and the Iraq War only provide further excuses for these self-proclaimed “patriots†to stab their fellow neighbors in the back by trying to dismantle our civil rights—and are the first to turn against our war heroes like John McCain and Max Cleland in a second; a knife behind the door. To them, this further justifies the degradation to our veterans, the hacking away at their medical and financial benefits while allowing fantastic tax breaks go to the rich and corporate America who wouldn’t lift a finger to help our veterans or our nation. So, for these pro-veteran and pro-morality Americans to believe in this new White Direction, provided by the ultra-extreme Republicans, it all proves that they have gone soft between the ears and soft between the legs. In short, STARK, RAVING PSYHOCITICS, not stupid. It’s important to understand this. This is the very core why they can’t or won’t be reached. For any animal can be “educated†—even a flatworm. And that is the answer why these Americans are voting against their own self-interest as they are steering yours, mine, and theirs—and our country—into the toilet.
Armando Gomez
December 24th, 2005 at 3:32 amApril 23, 2005 12: 50 am
Any one remember Linda Tripp? She fits right in the G.W.B. administration. She wire tapped her friend Monica, and A president.and was found not guilty by A virginia Court. Even though A crime has been comitted, the republican House will not do any thing. They will call for hearings on costume malfunction at super bowls or on brain dead ladies in florida.
December 24th, 2005 at 10:33 amWhen will it all come an end .Rove is back in bussiness .Bush lied so many times and people like it as long as they think that is the christian way.The american people have very short memory span.Shame shame.
December 24th, 2005 at 1:07 pmI-Right-I
Frankly, there is ZERO infringement concern monitoring radiation levels wherever they may be, precisely because it can be done without intrusion of any kind. We monitor ships entering ports using roving Geiger meters.
Oh, I think there is an infringement concern on the part of the Muslims in this country. They will be screaming bloody murder over this as they always do when we single them out and hurt their feeeeeelings.
It is a little short sighted though to think that only Muslims would be interested. Probably the most likely of suspects would be islamic radicals, but certainly not the only.
And your point is???? We should monitor the homes of little old white ladies in your neighborhood so it doesn’t look like we are racially and ethnically and religiously profiling, or because there’s actually one chance in a billion that old lady is Al Quada and we can’t take the chance of missing her?
One more thing, as WMD go, dirty bombs are pretty crappy, and unless it’s in a confined space, so are chem weapons.
You must live upwind.
What’s funny/ironic is that Bush the Lesser said Houssien was working on Bio-Weapon programs because he had Ricin. Now Ricin is a poison – very toxic – and can be made into a bioweapon – but it’s a lousy one, its essentially just an aerosolized toxin, not a germ-agent, and its effects are much more easily replicable by cheaper and more easily obtained chemical agents, so Bush was really misleading and overstating Houssiens intent. Unless Houssien’s government was profoundly stupid, they were not, in fact, using Ricin for Bioweapon activities, but rather using it for what it is best for, a highly lethal ingestion poison. Not that it’s a surprise that Bush would lie, the point is, when we talk about the excesses of this President, they include distortions, gross ommissions, and outright falsehoods, and yet, we’re told to TRUST HIM.
I think I’ll choose not to.
Comment by peeb
There’s nothing funny or ironic about ricin or that Bush considers it a WMD. I guess you can afford to second guess Islamoterrorist and give them credit for not being stupid or foolish but Bush can’t. If that’s your rationalization for Bush=Hitler Bush=Stupid or Bush=Liar then it’s off to the sharks with you at Club Gitmo with the rest of the losers.
The evidence the Filthy Left cites of Bush’s distortions, gross omissions, and outright falsehoods, are themselves distorted, omitting convenient facts and in many cases outright lies. I know who the Filthy Left is, I know what they’ve done, what they do and what is their aim. If that’s your horse then ride him, fine by me but in polite, rational American society you are considered beneath contempt. They dying cultures in Europe on the other hand probably love you. You can have them and they you.
December 24th, 2005 at 1:47 pmAn FBI spokesman declined to confirm or deny the U.S. News and World Report article and said, “We can’t talk about a classified program but we can talk about the US News reporter who broke the story. In fact we’re going to torture him until he tells us who it was that leaked the story and then we’re going to hang that son-of-bitch.â€
Ok, so I made that last part up. It felt good to do it though. USA! USA! USA!
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
I-Shite-I #69 and other republiscum inbreds),
Creating reality since the fraudulent (and breached) “Contract with America”…
IMPEACH!
December 24th, 2005 at 1:54 pmWhere is that whore linda tripp? We need her to do some valuable eavesdropping here.
December 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pmMerry Christmas you loser libertrolls P.S. Eat shit
December 24th, 2005 at 3:38 pmClassy as always LMN. Happy Saturnalia.
December 24th, 2005 at 9:54 pmImpeach the Liar-in-Chief
The generation of American leaders who fought the American Revolution and crafted the United States Constitution examined the most important issues of government. They considered (1) war and peace, (2 ) the limits to government power vs. individual liberties, (3) how officeholders should be controlled by the citizenry and (4) the raising and management of public money. That generation devised impeachment to remove tyrants and corrupt officeholders from positions of public power based on their experience under the government of King George. Under the present circumstances, it is likely that they would vote to impeach and remove from office George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.
Bush deserves to be known as Liar-in Chief because he has not been honest with the American public on the most important issues of public policy for the past 5 years of his government. It is amazing that Republicans in Congress were willing to impeach President Bill Clinton over lying about an essentially personal issue over his sex life but are defenders of Bush when he is dishonest on the most important issues of government and public policy.
Bush and Cheney were dishonest with the American voters when they pushed the American nation into the invasion and occupation of Iraq. They did not share the full information collected by our intelligence agencies on WMD’s with all the members of Congress or the voters. Cheney and Bush dishonestly tied Saddam Hussein with the 9-11 terrorist attacks on the United States to justify their unjustifiable war policy.
The Bush Administration intentionally mislead the American public over the use of the excessive government powers granted the federal government by the falsely-named Patriot Act. They claimed that these powers would only be used to fight terrorism. It has mostly been used for matters unrelated to terrorism. It has almost never been used to fight terrorism.
Bush falsely stated that wiretaps under his government were only being conducted under authorization of the federal courts. This was false. Bush violated the law by not getting court authorization for his wiretapping of American citizens. This has not been done since the government of Richard Nixon. Nixon was driven from office based in large part because of this behavior. Bush broke the law passed in the aftermath of Watergate to prevent this kind of governmental abuse of power. Carter and Clinton permitted wiretaps of a handful of foreigners who were agents of foreign governments. Bush wiretapped thousands of American citizens without proven connections to terrorism.
Bush and Cheney has repeatedly lied to the American taxpayers over the impact of their program of excessive tax breaks to the Super Wealthy who have financed their political machine. During the 2000 Presidential Election, they promised tax breaks for the wealthy only because our government was in surplus because of the wise management of President Clinton. They stated that they would not support tax cuts if the government budget was in deficit. This was false. They promised a balanced budget but gave use the largest budget deficits in history. They have spent money in the most reckless manner of any American government in history with huge amounts going to their political supporters with much accountability or plan to pay the bills.
These issues are certainly not the only issues of public policy were the Bush Administration has not been fully honest. Campaign finance, voting machines, media concentration, oil policy, disaster relief, environmental issues, judicial appointments and most other important issues have been things that were spun by the Bush Administration without little regard for being fully truthful with the American citizens.
Our Founding Fathers would not have approved of Bush concerning his honesty or his abuse of the powers of his office. They would have exercised their power of impeachment to remove both Bush and Cheney from office if they were serving in Congress today. Current members of Congress should act the same.
Written by Stephen Crockett and Al Lawrence (hosts of Democratic Talk Radio http://www.DemocraticTalkRadio.com ). Mail: P.O. Box 283, Earleville, Maryland 21919. Email: midsouthcm@aol.com .
Feel free to publish without charge or prior notice.
January 5th, 2006 at 12:26 pm[...] Clearly, it seems that the issue is being obfuscated. Monitoring incoming calls from overseas still appears to be regulated under FISA, even as amended. Sunstein argues otherwise, but I’d like to see a specific argument or interpretation of FISA, beyond his own, that says that power exists. You can look at the FISA statute yourself here and try to piece together something if you can see it. As far as I can tell, Sunstein’s argument only furthers my belief that the Bush Administration directly violated the FISA statute by claiming they could bypass it due to the Authorization to Use Military Force (AUMF) or some kind of inherent executive power. That’s what the DoJ tried to argue in a memo they sent to Congress yesterday, but I think it gets soundly defeated when you look at the response here from Think Progress. [...]
January 7th, 2006 at 12:08 pmPress Release: Democratic Talk Radio: Heroes & Villains of 2005
Democratic Talk Radio announced ties in both the heroes and villains categories of their annual awards foe 2005. Senator Russ Feingold and anti-war protester/Mom Cindy Sheehan tied for Heroes of the year. Texas Republican Congressman Tom Delay and Vice President Dick Cheney tied as Villains of the year according to Democratic Talk Radio hosts Stephen Crockett and Al Lawrence.
Senator Feingold was chosen for the key role he played in halting the Bush Administrations efforts to keep the worst abuses of the falsely-named Patriot Act in force. Feingold managed to protect American civil liberties almost single-handed in 2005.
Cindy Sheehan demonstrated the power of an individual citizen to change the course of public opinion and influence government policy armed only with truth and devotion to purpose. Sheehan exposed the insanity of Bush’s Iraq War policies. She is a great American and a citizen hero as clearly shown by the events of 2005!
Former Republican House Majority Leader Tom Delay was exposed in 2005 as the “kingpin of political corruption and abuse of public office.†Delay was instrumental in overturning traditional political processes by the seemingly illegal Texas Congressional Re-Districting Scheme that had given Republicans an apparent lock on the control of Congress. It was revealed that senior Bush appointees in the Justice Department overruled career lawyers who had found the Scheme illegal. Delay abused his office by using Homeland Security to track Democratic state legislators attempting to block his Scheme.
Tom Delay appears to be at the heart of the influence peddling, bribery and campaign money scandals that are swirling around the most powerful figures of the current Republican-dominated federal government in Congress and the White House. The ties between the Jack Abramoff operations and Tom Delay are vast and close. The entire operation has started to expose a real culture of corruption in the leadership circles of the Republican Party. Delay is the most highly visible government official connected to most of the most disgusting examples of government corruption and abuse of power in the history of the nation.
Vice President Dick Cheney became known as the driving force behind the illegal NSA wiretapping operation of American citizens by the Bush Administration. Cheney looks to be deeply involved in the illegal outing of the secret CIA agent Valerie Palme for partisan political reasons along with his Chief of Staff Scooter Libby. Cheney was exposed in 2005 for the deceptive PR campaign to falsely tie Saddam Hussein to the 9-11 terrorist attacks and WMD’s that did not exist.
Cheney seems to be pushing the Bush White House into claiming all types of near dictatorial powers and seemingly illegal behaviors. Democratic Talk Radio believes that the activities of Cheney as revealed in 2005 will lead to impeachment hearings for George W. Bush and Dick Cheney in 2006.
January 9th, 2006 at 6:04 pmDemocratic Talk Radio can be reached by email at: midsouthcm@aol.com , by mail at: P.O. Box 283, Earleville, Maryland 21919. The Democratic Talk Radio website is http://www.DemocraticTalkRadio.com .
Hey Judd, you did a great job of using ellipisis to distort the context of the case, In re: Sealed Case No. 02-001.
The full quote is:
January 20th, 2006 at 10:19 pm
[...] Blog Name: Think Progress Article Title: The Department of Justice Memo, Debunked The Department of Justice has released a memo defending President Bush’s warrantless domestic spying argument. There are two main arguments: 1) Any limitations FISA places on the President’s authority to issue warrantless domestic sear… [...]
February 18th, 2006 at 1:24 am