22%
By on Dec 29th, 2005 at 11:44 am
22%
Percentage of Americans who believe that Saddam Huissein helped plan 9/11. 24% believe some of the hijackers were Iraqis.
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Do the people who do these polls ever, when they’re finished, correct these idiots? Just an, “oh, by the way, Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 and none of the hijackers were Iraqis, have a good day.”
December 29th, 2005 at 11:52 amWOW!!! We REALLY need to work on that LITERACY thing in America. I can’t believe that many Americans are that FREAKING STUPID!!! What am I saying, yes I can. This country has been ruined by the stupidity and willful ignorance of trolls like this. It’s just sad.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:52 amOnce again:
December 29th, 2005 at 11:54 am15 Saudis
2 United Arab Emirates
1 Egyptian
1 Lebanese
————————-
19 total with 0 Iraqis
If you listen carefully, you’ll hear ThinkProgress.org readers throughout the country banging their heads on their monitors.
911 – Bin Ladin – Saddam
911 – Bin Ladin – Saddam
911 – Bin Ladin – Saddam
911 – Bin Ladin – Saddam
911 – Bin Ladin – Saddam
It worked. They wanted it to work. They meant it to work.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:55 amIgnorance is rampant. This is what they were likely told on faux news or their pulpit.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:56 amA poll taken a few years back showed that 3% of students couldnt find the US on a unmarked globe. These are surely the Bush supporters.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:59 amthey rely on neocon politicos and pundits to do their thinking for them!
December 29th, 2005 at 11:59 amOn PBS Dec.16 interview with Jim Leher Bush said “I never said Saddam had anything to do with 911.” How do pollsters reach these people when news doesn’t?
December 29th, 2005 at 12:00 pmWell at least we know now what the absolute lowest level of support the Chimp and the Organ Grinder have – 22%
December 29th, 2005 at 12:02 pmMushroom Cloud
December 29th, 2005 at 12:03 pmOn PBS Dec.16 interview with Jim Lehrer Bush said, “I never said Saddam had anything to do with 911.†How do pollsters reach these people when news doesn’t ?
December 29th, 2005 at 12:04 pmAt least the numbers are headed in the right direction over time …
December 29th, 2005 at 12:04 pm#2 That’s what you get after decades of the underfunding the public schools. Keep ‘em stupid and they will believe anything.
December 29th, 2005 at 12:05 pmI love this kind of post… the smugness is breathtaking.
“Gosh, if only the rest of the country was as smart as us then they would see how brilliant our progressive policy ideas are.”
Sounds like a winning combination to me — come up with bad ideas and then insult the people who you are trying to sell them to. Brilliant!
December 29th, 2005 at 12:05 pm#14,
Cynicon, do you admit that 22% of the U.S. is woefully uninformed? Or are you part of the 22%?
December 29th, 2005 at 12:09 pmThere is nothing smug about being factually correct.
December 29th, 2005 at 12:10 pmYou heard the implant. Stop tryint to sell the idea that none of the hijackers were Iraqis, or that Iraq did not have a hand in planning and executing 9/11. What, are they supposed to believe Bush’s Saudi friends had something to do with it? How insulting!
December 29th, 2005 at 12:12 pm“if only the rest of the country was as smart as us then they would see how brilliant our progressive policy ideas are.â€
Comment by cynicon implant
couldn’t have said it better myself, cynicon. it’s just such a damn shame that a large portion of the country just isn’t smart enough to figure out they vote against their own interests. but maybe bush’s “no child left behind” policy will change that. hey, implant, YOU wouldn’t happen to be one of those dumbasses, would you?
December 29th, 2005 at 12:12 pmYou heard the implant. Stop trying to sell the idea that none of the hijackers were Iraqis, or that Iraq did not have a hand in planning and executing 9/11. What, are they supposed to believe Bush’s Saudi friends had something to do with it? How insulting!
December 29th, 2005 at 12:12 pm13
Thinking about that today. The unlikely, unsustainable pairing of blue collar warhawks with rich people in the Neocon party….hmmm…
December 29th, 2005 at 12:17 pmcynicon troll,
BTW – Why are your offering us your brilliant political advice? Do you want Progressives to succeed? You must! You are a closet progressive! Come out! Come out!
Go back to Limbaugh, Hannity, O’Reilly, etc where they never insult anyone…
December 29th, 2005 at 12:22 pmI love this kind of post… the smugness is breathtaking.
“Gosh, if only the rest of the country was as smart as us then they would see how brilliant our progressive policy ideas are.â€
Comment by Silicone Eggplant — December 29, 2005 @ 12:05 pm
December 29th, 2005 at 12:24 pmImplant is right.
I mean, this is America after all is said and done and what the poll shows is NOT that 22% of Americans are misinformed, but rather that 22% CHOOSE to be as dumb as a bag of hammers.
Really, it is a bit sanctimonious of us to expect that the 24% who think that some of the hijackers were Iraqis actually READ the information available about the hijackers so that they would know that NONE of the hijackers were Iraqis. After all, recent studies show that 11% of American adults cannot read. That means that at least 13% of Americans who can read choose not to pollute their “beautiful minds” with facts.
Come on guys! We are being a bit too hard on these good folks. Think about it, if we were to require that people actually have to THINK, then folks like Implant might have to use their brain for the first time in their lives for something other than figuring out who Jesus would want them to hate and kill.
December 29th, 2005 at 12:26 pmSo what? Most Americans couldn’t tell you where Iraq is on a map. Most Americans couldn’t tell you where Kosovo is or what it is about, yet ignorant America helps those people.
It is most stupid to argue that because Americans are so ignorant, that our foreign policy is most unintelligent.
Most people at Think Progress actually think, cause they really don’t no better, that the majority of American Christian fundimentalists are morons. Well, you know Think Progress, these ‘morons’ are probably the largest group of Americans who have pushed for human rights changes in the Sudan and in China. They actually get stuff done there, that actually affects peoples’ lives for the better… yet they’re ‘morons’.
The average German probably knows where Kosovo is (maybe), but what the hell did they ever do for those people before America did something? What do they do for the Iraqis? What do they do for the Sudanese? I mean if they’re not ignorant, if they’re so sophisticated, and if they’re so well-read then why aren’t they helping these people like ignorant America is?
Kicking and screaming that America is ignorant is not an argument against America overthrowing Saddam and helping to reconstruct Iraq. Being ignorant has never stopped us from doing good.
December 29th, 2005 at 12:33 pmI saw a report that said that something like 22% of Americans still believe the sun revolves around the Earth. I really hope it’s the same 22%….
December 29th, 2005 at 12:37 pmBTW – Why are your offering us your brilliant political advice? Do you want Progressives to succeed?
Actually I’d like to see the Democratic party be more successful because right now the Repubs feel like they can do anything they want — and that is not a good thing for the country.
December 29th, 2005 at 12:39 pmMost people at Think Progress actually think, cause they really don’t no better,
December 29th, 2005 at 12:48 pmComment by Lyle — December 29, 2005 @ 12:33 pm
Lyle,
Ask the 100,000 or so Iraqis, or the 2,200 American soldiers who have died as a result of the Iraqi invasion whether or not the GOOD that we is doin’ justifies the monumental ignorance and apathy that you feel is not relevant.
December 29th, 2005 at 12:48 pm# 25 Intelligent Design isnt moronic? Supporting a War regime isnt moronic when you are a Christian ? its oxymoronic to be pro war and to be a Christian.
December 29th, 2005 at 12:50 pmI was talking about this 22% thing with a woman from another office on my floor, and she said, well weren’t they Iraqis? She seemed a little startled by the news. This woman is good at her job, a great mom, nice person, etc., she just doesn’t pay attention to anything outside her life. I guess the 22% aren’t all idiots or hardheaded, they’re just not involved. Imagine that…
December 29th, 2005 at 12:53 pmZookeeper, I respect the fact that you can still forgive this kind of willful ignorance, you are a bigger person than I am and I really mean that. That being said, there is no longer an excuse for the fact that your country is falling to pieces, or being torn to pieces, however you want to look at it, and you are just too busy to be bothered. I am a mother of two. I go to school full time, work full time, and take care of my children by myself a majority of the time because my husband is in the Navy and he spends a lot of time abroad. If I can make the time to get informed, so can this woman you work with. At this point in time, if you are not paying attention to anything outside your life, you are helping to destroy our country. Simple as that. NO MORE EXCUSES
December 29th, 2005 at 1:01 pm32 Human rights… send all your money to the 700 Club dont worry we are doing wonderful things with it
December 29th, 2005 at 1:03 pmLyle — Iraqis can go to hell… I want the Saudis heads on a stick for 9/11 …but I guess since 20ish% of America are a bunch of sell out traitors to their Saudi masters Osama gets to spend the rest of his life enjoying his days planning more attacks on America while we go after Syria (but not the Saudis!!!) or Iran (but not the Saudis!!!) and not ever no never not ever Osama …he is too close to the Saudis who OWN the Bushites and their agenda.
We have been sold out America. Sold out by the Bushites … sold to the Saudis.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:03 pmIt’s not their fault. If you don’t keep track of current events, you only know 1) We were attacked on 9/11, and 2) We counter-attacked in Iraq. What is the average Joe supposed to think?
That is why it is called “mis-leading”
December 29th, 2005 at 1:13 pmTrolls, here’s our plan. Go tell your slavemasters.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:15 pmGo on now! Git!
#33 – samhsarah, it’s not up to me to forgive anyone’s ignorance. I told her the facts as I know them and gave her a bunch of sites to visit, including this one, so she can find out for herself. I hope she does, because that’s all I can do. I agree with you that there is no excuse for not being informed. We’re all busy with our lives, especially you — mom, student, employee, Navy wife — but we are part of the larger community called Earth.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:23 pmno freedom,
i actually was in Xiamen, China last summer studying law… haha. secular human rights organizations are not the be all, end all of human rights organizations.
christian fundimentalists, however much they disgust you and you hate them, play a very large roll in helping people in countries that have serious human rights problems, like China and Sudan.
my point though is that a lot of intellectuals and blue staters out-of-hand consider Christian fundimentalists as morons and ignorant of the world, and that if they weren’t ignorant the world would be a better place. yet ignorant America is helping more than Europe is in the Sudan, yet we’re too stupid to know where it is. we helped first in the Balkans before Europe itself helped. we’re helping Iraq, Germany and France are not. yet all these people know the “truth” or just “know more” than us ignorant Americans.
look… a lot of Christian fundimentalists suck when it comes to gays rights and what not. i disagree with them on their stance when it comes to that issue, but if they’re helping people abroad who suffer under oppressive regimes I’m with them on that, because they’re helping people.
… and they are affecting more change in these places than a lot of secular, gay loving human rights organizations. that’s a fact, regardless of whether or not you appreciate it.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:24 pmsamhsarah # 33,
You are so right.
I must admit, I’m a bit of a political junkie these days but it wasn’t always so. A combination of 9/11 and the illegal invasion of Iraq prompted me to look for more information, to look for the truth and it didn’t take much research to come to some stark conclusions (with the help of the internet and some very smart, patriotic Americans) about what is happening. There was so much information available and so many “watchdogs” and intrepid citizens out there digging for the truth, it inspired me to get involved. Most of the people that I’m closest to aren’t nearly as frantic about the current state of affairs as I am. They know things are getting worse and they understand that the Bushies are corrupt warmongers, but it doesn’t inspire them to stay on top of what’s happening, to want to get involved. They can’t be bothered because they don’t understand how dramatic a change we’ve undergone, how close we are to dictatorship and yes, even fascism (this is not hyperbole, we are on the fast track to a state that embodies many if not all of the characteristics if fascism). As a nation we have become spoiled brats that feel entitled to consume and waste and pollute recklessly at the expense of whoever tries to get in the way.
Our TV and radio media is compromised beyond repair.
Our voting system has been hijacked by secretive, unaccountable friends of the GOP.
I only want a better world for my two young sons but I see no way that their futures are not threatened gravely by our current course. EVERYONE needs to pull their heads from their asses and start to fight for truth and justice.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:31 pmOptimist,
I actually think most Iraqis are thankful the U.S. and others overthrew Saddam Husseinn and that the sacrifice has been worth it. Humanity is tragedy. It is unfortunate that we must resort to such a disgusting and horrible thing as war to improve ourselves, but it is a necessary evil.
Thousands more were killed in WWII, but if we had not killed and mutilated thousands of Germans Europe wouldn’t be free, and many more in the concentration camps would have perished. We are not even beginning to approach the number casualties of War sustained then.
However, ugly and degrading the War in Iraq is, it is a beautiful and wonderful thing. It is not something to be ashamed about. All Americans should be proud of efforts in Iraq. Otherwise “the Greatest Generation’s” sacrifice was just as wrong and shameful as what we’re doing today. I for one don’t think it is.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:33 pm24% of Americans are functionally illiterate morons who believe that Iraqis were involved in the 9/11 attacks. They are probably also the same group that think that the sun revolves around the Earth.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:33 pmchristian fundimentalists, however much they disgust you and you hate them, play a very large roll in helping people in countries that have serious human rights problems, like China and Sudan.
Giving someone food only in exchange for their religious conversion hardly qualifies as ‘help’.
I too have been to China and unlike here, they have virtually no crime. Lack of religion, I say.
The problem with China is too many people and Government oppression. Something you fail to understand. But, at the rate we’re going here, you’ll get to live it for yourself. Let’s see how you like it when the Islamic fundamentalists come to you and offer you food in exchange for converting to Islam… or worse.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:38 pmLyle — WWII does not belong in the same sentance as the Iraq invasion. WWII was justified. We didnt attack Spain because of Pearl Harbor. So why did we attack Iraq after a Saudi attack on America? Someone is lieing and you are believing it. You are correct about religious people helping people around the world. The unfortunate truth is however for ever 1 of those christians that actually follow the words of Jesus there are 10 that have no freaking clue what Jesus was about and actually do more harm than the 1/10 christians that are doing good. Most of the world got to know America first from its christians that came in with military backing as they trashed the local people religion/culture because their god was not the christian god. This is antiChrist and NOT christian…but in America this antiChrist way of doing things is on TV (700 club) and in our churchs in every state …most of all in the south where people STILL see blacks as subhuman but never say it on TV any more…well most dont.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:42 pmI am still trying to figure out how WWII and Iraq have anything in common guess this leads us back to the main topic of the story No ????
December 29th, 2005 at 1:43 pm“However, ugly and degrading the War in Iraq is, it is a beautiful and wonderful thing.” Takes your breath away that does. The children are more malnutritioned now than they were under the worst days of sanctions, the power supplies is at 50-60% of prewar levels, the water is polluted with sewage, hardly anyone has a job. Yes, its a beautiful and wonderful thing. Please bomb me again and shoot my family one more time. WWII and Iraq are not the same thing, sonny.
My final thought on American ignorance:
December 29th, 2005 at 1:43 pm“Never in the field of human civilization, have so few greedy, stupid people, imposed so much misery on so many”
Besides the fact that it seems many Americans are brain dead, so is the press. at least 7 of the names that are supposed to have been hijackers are alive and well and living in Saudi Arabia with no knowledge of that attack at all. (See the book “Fog Facts”)
No wonder the polls reflect such ignorance, the press continues to be complicit in creating the myths the Washington Junta.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:44 pmLyle, Your english writing is on the boarderline of incomprehendable.
Comment by no freedom — December 29, 2005 @ 1:37 pm
Hey No Freedom, you know what they say about people who live in glass houses, don’t you?
The word is uncomprehensible
December 29th, 2005 at 1:45 pmunbelievable,
you haven’t been to china if you say there is no crime there. there’s lots of crime in china. the school i was at had a student murder 4 of his roommates. yep, there is no crime in china.
that’s just a moronic and ignorant claim.
no freedom,
yes evil is necessary. isn’t evil that man must kill man to progress? how would the European Union exist today without America’s help in liberating so many Western European countries by killing thousand of Germans and some innocent civilians?
sometimes, people must be killed and mutilated so that worse evil won’t be perpetrated, i.e., like fascism, communism, and jihadism (or whatever you want to call it).
if you want the yin; you have to also have the yang. such is humanity.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:46 pm#52 Details Details at least the have Democracy LOL
December 29th, 2005 at 1:48 pmterry the turtle,
yep, it is like America has occupied Europe and thrown millions of people in concentratrion camps. we’re so very bad… hahaha.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:49 pmI too have been to China and unlike here, they have virtually no crime.
Lyle, What part of virtually do you not understand? In fact, our guide was fascinated by prisons in America becuse they had so few in China since crime is minimal.
We have more people in prison in the U.S. than the rest of the world combined. Some Christian Nation…
December 29th, 2005 at 1:51 pmProclaim it on your placards, Lyle, “Evil for Oil”.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:52 pm#55 are you quoting Jesus ??
December 29th, 2005 at 1:55 pmunbelievable,
that is still a moronic statment. china has lots and lots of crime. it is not factual to say that china “virtually” has no crime. people are murdered in china all the time. triad thugs bully businessmen into paying them kickbacks. chinese pirates raid ships off the coast of China.
theft is common place. while i was there a girl i befriended almost had her purse stolen by thief. and with my own eyes i man took a bicyle from a young women because his child ran into her while she was riding by.
that’s crime man and more than i see with my own eyes here in the States.
there’s lots of crime in China, to say otherwise is just ignorant.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:56 pm#60
Lyle thinks he is Jesus…
December 29th, 2005 at 1:56 pmunbelievable,
i can’t possibly be Jesus since i’m agnostic. there is so much tragic ignorance here at think progress, and presumably in blue america. sad, sad, sad.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:59 pmLyle isn’t thinking….therein lies the problem.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:00 pmWelcome to our little progressive blog Lyle.
You might find some aren’t so curtious. Happens all over. Your points of view are valued. It is customary to actually discuss what the topic of the thread is. If you don’t, you get the treatment that you see cyclon implant getting (sorry, no Borgs allowed here, we aren’t THAT progressive).
You started off well, but then you proceeded to threadjack to topics that are not even tangental to the thread topic.
Please keep your hands, feet and head inside the thread at all times, else someone is likely to take them off and hand them to you on a dirtly platter.
Happy holidays from your new blog friends.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:01 pmstr8upnochaser,
wonderful argument!!! just tell everybody “he doesn’t think” and you’ve won the debate. bravo… bravo!!!
December 29th, 2005 at 2:02 pmHey Lyle respond to my comments… I dont call you names and I dont say you have no thoughts of your own… I present simple logic. Face that logic and either be proven wrong or right.
Pearl Harbor is to 9/11 as Japan/Germany is to Saudi Arabia/Pakistan
You have any facts to deny this? The whole Internet is FULL of facts to support it…
December 29th, 2005 at 2:06 pmthere’s lots of crime in China, to say otherwise is just ignorant.
Comment by Lyle — December 29, 2005 @ 1:56 pm
No Lyle you are ignorant, here are the numbers:
2000 World Homicide Rates
(Descending order)
50.14 South Africa
21.40 Russia (1999)
10.00 Lithuania
_9.94 Estonia
_6.22 Latvia
_5.64 U.S.A.
_2.94 Spain
_2.86 Finland
_2.84 Northern Ireland
_2.72 Czech Republic
_2.65 Slovakia
_2.58 New Zealand
_2.50 Romania
_2.31 Turkey (1999)
_2.23 Poland
_2.11 Scotland
_2.04 Hungary
_1.97 Sweden
_1.81 Australia
_1.79 France
_1.76 Canada
_1.61 England & Wales
_1.54 Belgium
_1.50 Greece
_1.48 Ireland (Eire)
_1.42 Netherlands
_1.42 Italy
_1.41 Slovenia
_1.24 Portugal
_1.17 Germany
_1.10 Japan
_1.09 Norway
_1.09 Denmark
_1.06 Malta
_1.01 Austria
_0.96 Switzerland
_0.60 Cyprus
_0.23 Luxembourg
Didn’t see China? That’s because their crime rate was so low they didn’t rank…
December 29th, 2005 at 2:07 pm69 that doesnt matter In Red America whatever i say is True dont you know that by now
December 29th, 2005 at 2:09 pmOut of those percetages of stupid people, I would like to know how many are bushy supporters. Hmmmmmmm…….
Anyone care to guess?
December 29th, 2005 at 2:12 pmunbelievable,
you do realize that China doesn’t actually report a lot of statistics? i don’t know this ’study’, but it’s likely statistics for china weren’t provided.
if you want to publicly say that there is “virtually” no crime in china, you go right ahead. but anybody who knows anything about china will laugh at you.
china has lots and lots of crime. they even execute more ‘criminals’ than America does. in fact 10 city officials in Xiamen were executed for corruption (corruption is a crime) the year before I was there.
don’t be stubborn and make yourself a dunce by holding on to the supremely ignorant notion that China has “virtually” no crime. that’s laughable man.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:15 pm#70
Yes, yes, you are right… :)
December 29th, 2005 at 2:15 pmMaybe there’s so little crime on China because they actually punish their criminals.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:16 pmZookeeper,
December 29th, 2005 at 2:18 pmMy post wasn’t really directed at you or anything you did or didn’t do, I was really trying to bring attention to this “I’m just too busy with my little life” excuse that so many people believe is a valid one. I also wasn’t trying to say my life is any more or less busy than anyone elses, just that everyone, regardless of what they do all day long can find some time to pay attention. Maybe not everyone can find the time to become an activist. But at this stage, to not know that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 911?? It really is disheartening to think that one single person would not have made the effort to find that out by now. I agree with you about the fact that we share this earth. I just wish more people would see it that way before it is too late. You seem like a very kind person. I hope I didn’t say anything to offend you. Peace.
gerald,
i am not comparing 9/11 to world war ii. i brought up world war ii to show that evil must be perpetrated so that ‘good’ can prevail. i personally think war is really, really bad. it is human tragedy, but it is a tragedy that we had to perpetrate so that, for example, Frenchmen could be free.
War also had to be perpetrated so that the Iraqi people could be free of Saddam’s human rights abusing regime. it’s tragic and horrible, but without some sacrifice and suffering… human beings would not ever PROGRESS!!!
December 29th, 2005 at 2:18 pmsorry, “in” China
December 29th, 2005 at 2:18 pm#73 all human societies have crime… period. But what do you have to say about traitors in America walking around holding the hand of the leader of the country whos hero (Osama Bin Laden) attacked the USA on 9/11 in a way that was before that only seen in movies?
December 29th, 2005 at 2:18 pmhttp://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:9NuNzzwze14J:www.lrjjr.com/holding_hands_with_evil.jpeg
#54, cynicon:
Actually, the word is INcomprehensible.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:20 pmLyle,
Just because we want to lethally inject every petty criminal in this country doesn’t mean the rest of the world does as well. So we’ll leave the petty stuff out and look at the big crimes in the U.S. vs. China…
We have 296,609,330 people as of ten seconds ago
China has 1,310,180,494 people as of twenty seconds ago
Crime Rates per 100,000 Population
Embezzlement
U.S. 1.1
China 0.0
Murders
U.S. 9.4
China 0.8
Rapes
U.S. 40.3
China 3.6
Frauds
U.S. 114.1
China 1.3
See, virtually no crime compared to us…
December 29th, 2005 at 2:23 pmno freedom,
i haven’t ever served in the military. and i don’t see how that would be relevant to anything we’re discussing. bill clinton for example never served in the military yet he was commander-in-chief or ordered the US military to kill people in the Balkans, in Iraq, in Afghanistan and in Sudan. lots of other Presidents never served in the military as well, yet they all had a lot to say about who the US military killed or didn’t kill.
my opinions are just as valid as those that have served and do serve in the military. people may not respect my opinions as much, but that’s there choice, but as a citizen of the US I have a right to my opinion and I have a right to comment on our foreign policy and military affairs. i mean, it is civilians who control our military. as much as people have a right to denounce the war in Iraq; i have as much right to support it. regardless of whether or not i have ever served.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:24 pm#77 — This is from one of our Forefathers … the people who MADE America.
Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be.
But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.
She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.
She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.
John Q. Adams
War is only wrong when it is unjustified. Justification is self defense. Pearl Harbor we were attacked. We did NOT help Europe for YEARS. Not until we were attacked at Pearl Harbor. On 9/11 we were justified in waging war against Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan. Iraq is in no way an attacker of America on 9/11. In WWII America was heros because we were justified. In the 9/11 war we are cowards because we let Saudi Arabi and Pakistan go free.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:25 pmBeing from Mars,as an outside observer, I see the symptoms of a society that has reached its pinnacle and has declined to a state collapse.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:25 pmRemember democracy is an experiment. And most experiments fail without introspection.
Maybe there’s so little crime on China because they actually punish their criminals.
Comment by cynicon implant — December 29, 2005 @ 2:16 pm
Nope, punishment is not a deterent or there wouldn’t be so many people in jail.
High self-esteem is the best way to lower crime rates. If people value themselves, they assume other people are also valuable and do not harm them. China’s culture is based upon respect of oneself, and others. Christianity is not.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:26 pmWhoopeee!
I’m an average American idiot like George Bush and his pals!! When I grow up I wanna be a “useful idiot” like our resident trolls.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:27 pmIt is most stupid to argue that because Americans are so ignorant, that our foreign policy is most unintelligent.
When the ignorant vote in people who impose that policy on the rest of us, and the world, that is unintelligent. And how exactly does that statement support that foreign policy?
Being ignorant has never stopped us from doing good.
Pure bullshit. Ignorance is what allowed the US to back tyrannical regimes, until it was politically expedient not to. Ignorance is what allowed corportate militarists to exploit unfounded fears of a hot war with the Soviets to make ridiculous amounts of our money. And ignorance is what has allowed the US to get into a disastrous quagmire in Iraq. I might add that ignorance is what keeps people like Bush and Cheney in power.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:27 pmunbelievable,
again… statistics from China are unreliable. why? because is an authoritarian state.
you can bring up all the statistics you want to, but it is laughable to say that china has “virtually” no crime. murder happens all the time in china. it is not an anomaly. theft happens all the time there and it is not an anomaly. just because it isn’t reported, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. and lots of stuff goes unreported in china.
although, i give china daily credit with reporting what they do report… which is that there is a lot of crime in china.
i’ve warned you though, but go right ahead and be stupid.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:28 pmgerald,
did Germany attack America?
December 29th, 2005 at 2:29 pm#80 — you are correct, typo on my part
December 29th, 2005 at 2:30 pmi’ve warned you though, but go right ahead and be stupid.
Comment by Lyle — December 29, 2005 @ 2:28 pm
Oh, well YOU warned me, that’ll matter. Crimes here don’t get reported either – so that’s no excuse for the large disparity. Lyle, you’re just making excuses because I called you on your ignorance and was able to back it up.
I think you don’t understand what the word stupid means… http://www.dictionary.com (it’s free).
December 29th, 2005 at 2:34 pmdavid,
do most americans no where kosovo is? yet hasn’t America helped Kosovo? do most Americans know where Sudan is, but isn’t America trying to help Sudan? did most Americans know a lot about Germany and Japan before wwii, yet they ended up changing those two countries for the better? do most Americans no where South Korea or even realize they’re country is protecting South Korea from North Korea? do most Americans no where Taiwan is or even know that their country protects that country from a bellicose China? do most Americans no where the Uganda is? but don’t Americans spend millions there on aid? do most Amerians know where phuket, thailand is? yet, didn’t Americans give Phuket a lot of aid after the tsunami?
yep, ignorance is keeping us from helping others.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:34 pmdid Germany attack America?
Comment by Lyle — December 29, 2005 @ 2:29 pm
No, but Germany did declare war on the United States a few days after the attack on Pearl Harbor by the Japanese:
December 29th, 2005 at 2:36 pmFollowing the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, Germany declared war on the United States on 11 December 1941, even though it was not obliged to do so under the Tripartite Pact of 1940.
World War II
unbelievable,
no one of any serious intellect would claim that china has “virtually” no crime. your “facts” haven’t proven a thing, and they certainly do not undermine my position or the reality that lots of crime happens in china.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:36 pmThe sun and earth rotate each other, unbelievable.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:38 pmAnd Lyle is mad because he’s still in the closet and he takes it out on libs.
gregor,
germany did declare war on america, but never did Germany attack the US or kill one American civilian, yet we killed a whole lot of Germans… in “self-defense”, but not of America but for Europe and Europeans. And thankfully because of all that killing, mutilation, and bombing there is the mighty European Union.
america is wonderful!!!
December 29th, 2005 at 2:39 pmI believe Lyle is a C.L.O.G. member.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:39 pmLyle: try reading this from Harold Pinter. The US has a very nasty reputation in places that I travel to:
http://nobelprize.org/literature/laureates/2005/pinter-lecture-e.html
Not millions in concentration camps yet, but you are well on the way: Habeas Corpus suspended, Guantanamo, CIA renditions, torture of thousands. Add that to the PInter list and you have the US as a nasty player in the Imperial Game, supported and backed by the kind of ignorance and disdain that this post identifies and you typify.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:40 pmclogs,
what are you saying? are you making an argument?
December 29th, 2005 at 2:40 pmAmerica is wonderful eccept fer the ones that dont no forein policy good.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:42 pmunbelievable,
no one of any serious intellect would claim that china has “virtually†no crime. your “facts†haven’t proven a thing, and they certainly do not undermine my position or the reality that lots of crime happens in china.
Comment by Lyle — December 29, 2005 @ 2:36 pm
Let’s see…
I gave you facts in statistical form from reputable sources after expresing my own personal conversations with Chinese people while I was in China.
You gave me an unsubstantiated opinion in jibberish (as you clearly have no facts to refute mine). You’ve probably never even been to China.
Doesn’t make ME the ignorant one.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:42 pm#89 Yes Germany attacked America.
1) They joined in an alliance with Japan called the Axis.
2) They sunk untold #s of boats as they made their way to England.
3) They sent spies onto American soil in an attempt to inject disease into our livestock (aka our food supply).
4) They even sent submarines to our shores and sunk our ships….
Its all on record. I am only in my 30s. All I did was read to get the truth…what is your excuse?
December 29th, 2005 at 2:44 pmLyle wears panties.(”Manties”)
December 29th, 2005 at 2:44 pmterry the turtle,
don’t get me wrong, America does wrong. we do in fact trangress people. however, America does much good as well and should be applauded for it.
i mean one of the reasons i support the iraq war is because we did in fact transgress the iraqi people. first we supported saddam against iran while he committed genocide against the kurds and others, and then we didn’t fully support the post-war rebellions in ‘91 that we encouraged. so we failed and transgressed the iraqi people twice. therefore we had obligations to the iraqi people for having screwed them over. the only way to make up for our failures was to liberate them from Saddam and provide them with hope and the opportunity to live in a better Iraq. we’ve done that and are doing it.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:45 pmAmerica is wonderful eccept fer the ones that dont no forein policy good.
Comment by Lyle — December 29, 2005 @ 2:42 pm
see jibberish…
December 29th, 2005 at 2:45 pmunbelievable,
no one of any serious intellect would claim that china has “virtually†no crime. your “facts†haven’t proven a thing, and they certainly do not undermine my position or the reality that lots of crime happens in china.
Comment by Lyle
It’s all in the way you define crime, and what behaviors you decide to impact by imposing the criminal sanction. You and your kind, Lyle, could be “criminals” tomorrow if we had a real government, instead of a cabal of opportunistic hypocrites and criminals. Sadly, we do get the wrong idea when all we get to hear from are the idiot trolls, the administration and it’s propaganda organs, which include the entire MSM.
Here’s what real conservatives are saying:
Reeds In The Wind
One of the recurring themes of this blog has been the way in which many self-described “conservatives” have been exposed as little more than opportunistic hypocrites during the past few years. It’s both fascinating and a bit sad, because a decade ago I considered some of these people or their employers in the media to be standard-bearers of clear thinking when the premium on that was dear.
I don’t know much about Mark Levin other than he’s an attorney who contributes frequently to National Review. I also recall that during the Clinton administration he was a vocal critic of both the president and Janet Reno, particularly on the subject of intrusive government. One of Levin’s pet issues was the shootout at Ruby Ridge in 1992, in which the FBI and U.S. Marshals laid siege to Randy Weaver and his family at a remote mountain cabin… read on
December 29th, 2005 at 2:46 pmgerald,
i am aware of all that. but Germany did not ‘attack’ America before declaring war on it. those spies you write about didn’t show up onshore until after we were at war with them. and their u-boats did not start openly targeting u.s. ships until after hostilities began.
the point is, germany wasn’t a real threat, other than with a nuke, to do America proper much harm, yet we went to Europe and killed lost of Germans, and destroyed just about every major Germany city or town. rightfully so of course, but Germany did not attack the US like it attacke France, or the Netherlands, or Denmark, or Poland, or Norway, or Luxembourg, or Belgium, or Greece, or Yugoslavia or the United Kingdom.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:49 pmgermany did declare war on america, but never did Germany attack the US or kill one American civilian,
Comment by Lyle — December 29, 2005 @ 2:39 pm
You were caught red-handed in an ignorant comment and now you are trying to move the goal posts.
The US was justified to attack Germany given the fact that Germany declared war on the US -whether or not Germany attacked US soil after that is irrelevant in that respect.
yet we killed a whole lot of Germans… in “self-defense”, but not of America but for Europe and Europeans.
It was self-defence given that Germany declared war, Japan had attacked Pearl Harbor, and Germany and Japan were allies.
It was not a completely selfless response. Don’t be disingenuous.
And thankfully because of all that killing, mutilation, and bombing there is the mighty European Union.
The European Union is a domestic effort by sovereign European nations. If you are going to take credit for everything that happened in Europe after WWII, you should also take blame for Francisco Franco’s regime in Spain, and the Regime of the Colonels in Greece.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:50 pmYou were caught red-handed in an ignorant comment and now you are trying to move the goal posts.
That’s a Classic Gregor!
December 29th, 2005 at 2:51 pmsad for america,
i’d be a criminal in your government because why? because of my opinions? do you understand how hateful and undemocratic that would be. yeah, “put these ‘criminals’ in jail because they said this”.
i mean your America would be one fun place for sure.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:53 pmah, blue States, if only they could have all the power they’d throw all the purple and red state people in jail for not being blue. seems kind tyrannical, or fascist, or monarchist to me.
Lyle, you just can’t be so misinformed. I just can’t buy it. And if you are actually a colleague of mine, I am ashamed of you. You have no business in the legal profession.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:57 pmno freedom,
no, i disagree, people have a right to talk about places they haven’t been too, even more so if they’re giving to the people who live there.
you missed my point though, which is the point i’ve been making about this thread, and that is that the average American being ingorant of the world doesn’t preclude America from helping the world.
most Americans probably don’t know where thailand is, or that there is a difference between taiwan and thailand, but interestingly America sent billions to places such as phuket to help with tsunami relief, even if it went to the ‘european market’. i mean, foreign tourism in thailand and elsehwere sort of kind of benefits the locals. like it gives them jobs and income, i.e., a living.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:58 pmRed States = Slavery of the Blacks
Red States = Taliban Southern Baptists
Red States = KKK
Red States = Anti-Civil Rights
Red States = Sell outs to Saudi Oil KINGS
Red States = unAmerican
Red States = Confederacy
The ONLY reason this is happening to America is because so many southerns moved up north to places like Indiana and threw off the voting #s.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:01 pmprogressive and proud,
oh, in the legal profession there is a right way and a wrong to think? you mean to be a member of the bar you have to think like every other member?
i’m not sure that is so, and i’m pretty sure that it is not supposed to be that way.
fascism… it is alive and well in America.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:01 pmSad commentary on our country when people can only identify a place after we blow it up or send it relief, and even then that’s only because it’s all the television channels talk about so they can ignore the real news…
I bet 22% of the people in this country didn’t know where Louisiana was until Hurricane Katrina hit…
December 29th, 2005 at 3:03 pmHi, Cynicon, how are you doing? The word is incomprehensible.
Lyle, welcome from a fellow agnostic. Kindness is right, though, you did sort of take off in a completely different direction here, so I got to the point where I’d forgotten what the thread was!
December 29th, 2005 at 3:05 pmgerald,
the south wasn’t the only place to have slaves, although it shamefully allowed it to flourish longer than northern states.
southern baptists do not treat women as chattel property and do not kill people who do not agree with them (although the occaisional wack job, who may or may not be southern baptist, kills an abortion doctor… but churches criticize this and do not openly support it, definitely not the southern baptists).
the KKK is most alive and well in the midwest today, or northern states with mostly white populations.
the south today is no longer against civil rights for blacks or others (except gays… shame on us).
yankees fly in airplanes and drive cars just like us rednecks.
the south is just as American as the north, and I’m not sure how that could be quantified. so it is just a subjective belief on your part to thin the South ‘unAmerican’.
and yes the South was treanous and revolted from the Union. the South was wrong. this doesn’t mean that blue staters today know what they’re tallking about or that the South is anyway similar to how it was antebellum.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:08 pmThe ONLY reason this is happening to America is because so many southerns moved up north to places like Indiana and threw off the voting #s.
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr. — December 29, 2005 @ 3:01 pm
Come on now, you’re a progressive, you can’t think everyone in the South is ignorant and supports public lynchings. My parents were from a blue state in the North and they were pretty racial. I grew up in the South (when it was Democratic) and I am not like that. I lived in California for a while where there were some seriously racial and prejudice neocon natives who voted for Bush – twice! My friends in Seattle work with some serious bigots and tell me outrageous comments they make (like the sun going around the earth cause the Bible says so). Ignorance and hate live pretty much anywhere, unfortunately…
December 29th, 2005 at 3:09 pmRemember, these are volunteer “useful idiots” we get trolling here. They are the scraopings from the bottom of a very small barrel.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:11 pmI bet 22% of the people in this country didn’t know where Louisiana was until Hurricane Katrina hit…
Comment by unbelievable
louwheezyana? That where they got that marty grass? That’s in france, right?
December 29th, 2005 at 3:13 pmgregor,
how was I caught ‘red-handed’? of course America’s response to wwii was not entirely self-less, I mean we were attacked at Pearl Harbor. and of course I aware that Japan and Gemrany were ‘allies’, although for no real benefit. and yes Germany posed a threat, but Germany did not in fact attack us. that is all i said.
and yes gregor the EU developed under the aegis of America. Franco however did not. we had no hand in Franco. we most definitely had a hand in Greece and is one of the reason why Greece was in the EU long before any of its European neighbors. it also a reason why Turkey and Greece never killed each other. and Greece today in part because of us, just like Taiwan and South Korea. yep, the authoritarian bastards who we supported sucked, but the countries are free and affluent because of it.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:13 pmunbelievable,
no, i think the average American still doesn’t know where Kosovo or Phuket is. and I think this is great because despite our ignorance, we still help a lot. ah, America the Beautiful.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:15 pm#120 You are dead wrong. The christians in the north that have no strong ties to the south talk about the southerners all the time. Just a couple weeks ago some people at my job was in my office (one is a big time christian) and we ALL had stories of going down south for a family reunion and being ashamed of our family members because they opening talk about blacks just like they always have for the past 200+ years. And yes there are alot of those people that have moved up north. In the north however people would gasp if you say the sort of things that down south people giggle about …unless they are infront of a camera. I didnt make this world…it is just the world I grew up in.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:16 pmlouwheezyana? That where they got that marty grass? That’s in france, right?
Comment by sad day for america — December 29, 2005 @ 3:13 pm
Exactly! :)
December 29th, 2005 at 3:17 pmsad day for america,
what’s your point? since, i’m from lousiana you’re trying to insult me or something? i don’t get it.
what i do understand is that you don’t have any arguments, so you resort to, “he’s a redneck” or “he this” or “i bet he believes this” or “even though i have no idea, i bet he is a christian”, or “i bet he hasn’t been there”, so on and so forth.
pathetic.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:18 pmI wouldn’t just lump the whole south in there. You have red and blue, or blue and grey. I think what you really have are anti-liberals, anti-Americans, really (they call themselves conservatives) and the rest of America. These so-called conservatives are pro-slavery. Period.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:18 pmLyle,
U from loowheeezyana, boy!
pathetic
December 29th, 2005 at 3:19 pmno, i think the average American still doesn’t know where Kosovo or Phuket is. and I think this is great because despite our ignorance, we still help a lot. ah, America the Beautiful.
Comment by Lyle — December 29, 2005 @ 3:15 pm
Lyle, I think you just like to say ‘no’ a lot and argue with people about stuff they didn’t actually say…
December 29th, 2005 at 3:20 pmgerald,
are you saying the KKK isn’t most active in the midwest? who threatened what judge where, because that judge was punishing neo-nazis and kkk’rs?
wasn’t it in Illinois? where is Illinois, you know I don’t know because i’m from the south and all white people down south are ignorant and racist. we don’t have geography books. so please tell me where Illinois is?
December 29th, 2005 at 3:20 pmLyle,
U from loowheeezyana, boy!
pathetic
49 Mississippi -14.31 47 -2 24
No wonder…
December 29th, 2005 at 3:21 pmso-sad,
conservatives are ‘pro-slavery’? that’s funny because i’m pretty sure some southern evangelicals have been trying to end the slavery that is going on in Sudan.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:22 pmDon’t feel bad, Lyle
That Idiot-R-Idiot is from Arizona, right? They ranked #50
LMAO!
December 29th, 2005 at 3:23 pmLyle, just like I said alot of southerners moved up north. Just because they are causing crimes in the north doesnt make the north the new confederacy.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:24 pmDumb ass crackas!
December 29th, 2005 at 3:25 pmHey Lyle, Why didnt we invade Sudan? You want to bet your life that we never EVER will invade Sudan? It is a safe bet.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:26 pmsad day,
why the bigotry? i thought liberals and blue staters were not supposed to be bigots, yet you put down where I’m from. why do you hate louisiana and people from louisiana?
December 29th, 2005 at 3:26 pm#4 It’s just lie Herr Goebbels said: if you repeat the big lie enough times people will believe it.
911 – Iraq – Bin Ladin – Saddam
December 29th, 2005 at 3:28 pm911 – Iraq – Bin Ladin – Saddam
911 – Iraq – Bin Ladin – Saddam
911 – Iraq – Bin Ladin – Saddam
911 – Iraq – Bin Ladin – Saddam
Proof that conservatism and conservative policies will kill you…. after they make you stupid…
CA used to be in the top five, now they are 46. It all started there with Prop. 13 in the 70’s and 80’s and that idjit Reagan and his voodoo Reaganomics..
December 29th, 2005 at 3:28 pmLyle,
Bigotry is if I drag you for a mile down the road behind my Honda hybrid, then lynch you from a tree that’s still there because i hugged it.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:30 pmgerald,
although i would love for us to ‘invade’ Sudan, we aren’t. for one we don’t have any obligations there, like we had in iraq. we don’t support the sudanese regime or what they do, but we did support saddam. not to mention we had been operating two no-fly zones over iraq, which haven’t been doing in Sudan.
we also aren’t going to invade Sudan because we’re in Iraq helping the Iraqi people. we’re committed to them, and they’re just as important as the Sudanese. however, since we cannot be every at once and have our own limits, you’re right we won’t be going into the Sudan.
and that’s tragic, because nobody else is going to go there either, and that means those people there are dead or displaced. we should all be ashamed of that.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:30 pmGiven the sad state of affairs out there in yokeldom, I’m surprised the percentage isn’t much higher.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:30 pmalthough i would love for us to ‘invade’ Sudan, we aren’t. for one we don’t have any obligations there,
These people are disturbed.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:31 pm121 unbelievable ..that of coarse is true about every subject in every context. Exceptions are universal. Exceptions are NOT the rule however. I bet there are perfectly good people in every country on earth including Nazi Germany…that doesnt make the rest of the people around them OK also… The south STILL has a major freakin problem. Just the other day some red neck idiots beat the hell out of some college professor because he said the truth about Intelligent Design and taliban southern baptists. Yes. They attacked him in public and just like the KKK cops of the south during the civil rights era the cops of Kansas did nothing other than make it clear they were not really interested and would do as little as they had to until the story blew over.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:31 pmsad day,
no, that’s murder. putting somebody down because of where they come from is bigotry. and that means you’re a bigot.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:31 pmProof that conservatism and conservative policies will kill you…. after they make you stupid…
CA used to be in the top five, now they are 46. It all started there with Prop. 13 in the 70’s and 80’s and that idjit Reagan and his voodoo Reaganomics..
Comment by sad day for america — December 29, 2005 @ 3:28 pm
I was an architect on projects for the Elk Grove Unified School District (the one Michael Newdow sued over the pledge) when I lived in California. They were so afraid of being sued over every tiny little thing that they focused on buracracy rather than the students. I’m not surprised they have fallen to 46th place. They probably helped contribute to the 22% documented in this post.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:33 pmyet hasn’t America helped Kosovo?
I do not buy the “necessary evil” justification. If dropping cluster bombs on Belgrade is what is defined as helping, no I don’t see it. If helping the KLA, an organization of questionable repute (that is being generous on my part), to claim de facto control over Kosovo, then once again, I don’t see it. As far helping in Sudan, what are we really doing, not just saying or talking about doing? The Korean situation is not being helped by this administration’s rhetoric.
Back to the topic- if that many Americans don’t even know by whom the attacks of Sep 11, 2001 were committed, doesn’t that make it that much easier to manipulate the emotional effect of that attack? To manufacture reasons for attacking a country which was not a threat to us by merely making inferential links between the two? One that happened to be sitting on considerable petroleum reserves, run by a dictator who used to be on the payroll?
December 29th, 2005 at 3:34 pmgerald,
post a link about the intelligent design stuff please. if i’m not mistaken the recent debate came to head in PENNSYLVANIA. And we all know where PENNSYLVANIA is… that’s right, the NORTH. hahaha…
of course we have the anti-evolutionists here, and we do battle with them a lot, and so for we’ve come out on top. in fact it was a professor from Louisiana who’s arguments helped the Pennsylvania judge arrive at the proper holding.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:34 pmLyle never answered, if ever serve in the military.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:39 pmno freedom,
i did, in a lengthly post. go back and read it.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:40 pm121 unbelievable ..that of coarse is true about every subject in every context. Exceptions are universal. Exceptions are NOT the rule however. I bet there are perfectly good people in every country on earth including Nazi Germany…that doesnt make the rest of the people around them OK also… The south STILL has a major freakin problem. Just the other day some red neck idiots beat the hell out of some college professor because he said the truth about Intelligent Design and taliban southern baptists. Yes. They attacked him in public and just like the KKK cops of the south during the civil rights era the cops of Kansas did nothing other than make it clear they were not really interested and would do as little as they had to until the story blew over.
Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr. — December 29, 2005 @ 3:31 pm
But that is also an exception. Matthew Shepard was beaten to death in Wyoming for being gay.
In 1995, according to the FBI there were 1,751 hate crimes in California (31,575,724 pop). Louisiana (2,681,595 pop)had 7. Idaho (1,154,533 pop) had 114.
I just think it creates more hate to generalize, and isn’t fair to the majority who do not act that way.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:42 pmpeace out think progress. i love each and every one of you. but i’ve got to get some stuff done.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:43 pmLyle, I am from Indiana. I totally understand that the southern racists moved up north over the past 150+ years. That isnt my point. The point is that Taliban religious racists have their hotspot and that is in the south. Their POISON is spreading around this whole country. Germany wasnt always a bunch of Nazis… America may not always be George Washingtons America…. We must protect ourselves from this BS ignorance. And the left isnt helping with their stupid ass mind numbing BS on tv like NOT real realty shows instead of pushing more educational TV. There are really good red state people and really good blue state people and they are being tricked into fighting each other while the taliban people are getting elected into Washington.
http://www.postchronicle.com/news/breakingnews/article_2121738.shtml
December 29th, 2005 at 3:45 pmWhat is the percentage of mentally challenged Americans? What is the percentage of Americans who are Fox viewers/Limbaugh listeners?
December 29th, 2005 at 3:59 pmIt is impossible to reach a goal of 100% of informed, educated, critically thinking Americans, but that 22% are that stupid and uninformed speaks as much to the failure of the media as much as to them. Of course, Bush&Co would label it a success by his sycophantic shills of the media.
Well, Well,Well, LYLE!
December 29th, 2005 at 4:03 pmYou are aware of the FACT That Chinas Population is way ahead of americas population?
how do you propose to defeat communism?
I for one am finished with the military completely. after 21 + yrs.
american population>LESS than 300 million.
Lyle, you just might have to Join the Military. or, be DRAFTED!
#44, Jay, I think you travel/live/work in the same circles as I because your description of those you know comes very close to those that I know.
December 29th, 2005 at 4:05 pmI wasn’t always a news junkie, but beginning with the awareness that the dumbest man I could imagine just might win the White House (back in 1999) I began seriously seeking the facts.
Too many people are more informed about American Idol than America.
Lyle, you seem to be a professor on many subjects. Could you please explain to me just how the teachings of Jesus Christ meld with conservative phillosophy? I’m really curious because when i did not go to church I was a “Cliton Killed Foster!” democrat hating card carrying republican. Then I started to go to church again and that infulenced me to cause my thinking to change from the social darwinism of conservatism to a more liberal bent. (the lord helps those who help themselves is not Jesus by the way) I’m just curious.
I’ve had someone (a bush loving republican) actually tell me with a straight face that Christ was for war and so are republicans so they go together that way. Hmm, must be why tghey called him the prince of peace.
Also the KKK is alive and doing well in the north, sort of. If I’m not mistaken their world headquarters is alive and well in north central Indiana.
December 29th, 2005 at 4:05 pmUnbelievable stupid people and they vote Republican. What does that say about the Republican Party?
December 29th, 2005 at 4:13 pm#160, It also says that the Republican/conservative/neocon party believes that their followers are so stupid and they can hoodwink or brainwash them with any outrageous lie and they can be made to believe them. That Bush lovers are not so totally insulted by the party’s attitude toward them is amazing to me – further proof of the effectiveness of the brainwashing, propagandists.
December 29th, 2005 at 4:26 pmWASHINGTON (CNN) — Nearly $2 million for a doctor’s office in Washington state; $725,000 to buy land in Florida, and $371,500 to buy land in Oregon are a few examples of questionable federal loans granted for businesses hurt by the 9/11 attacks, according to an official audit.
December 29th, 2005 at 4:27 pm#119 — Hi Jane. Yeah I know. Typo! I should be more careful when I’m playing spellcheck policeman!
December 29th, 2005 at 4:56 pmUnbelievable stupid people and they vote Republican. What does that say about the Republican Party?
Comment by Steve — December 29, 2005 @ 4:13 pm
I know a lot of Dems who are very uninformed on a lot of issues too. Mostly issues that have to do with basic economics — like how taxing businesses affects individuals.
But I agree that it is pathetic that so many people think the 9/11 terrorists were Iraqis.
December 29th, 2005 at 5:01 pmYou know, I think this number was a lot higher a few years ago, like after Bush kept talking about Iraq all the time…I’m thinking it was in the 40th percentile at one point. So maybe by the time I have grandkids everyone will know that George W. Bush is the worst president ever and I won’t be the only loon at the retirement home.
December 29th, 2005 at 5:01 pm#76 – Apologies, samhsarah, you misread my tone. I absolutely agree with your post at #33; I get completely frustrated with people who haven’t a clue about what’s going on around them, but I’m way past trying to yank them into reality. I give the info, and they do with it what they will. I respect the fact that you’re a mom, student, etc., and I didn’t meant to convey any snark — I’ve been there myself. Welcome, I hope you continue to post here. Peace.
December 29th, 2005 at 5:06 pmTP, yoo hoo, could you post something about China so Lyle, no freedom, et al would be able to post there? Yeah, thanks…and don’t give me any crap about my post at #166 being off topic, because I owed an apology and the rules only apply to other people, not me.
December 29th, 2005 at 5:10 pmThe sad state of America today is partially to do with education. Face it for the last 30 years or so when people go to college they only want to take classes in their majors. How many times have the college educated here heard people complain about the general studies classes required for their degree? Damn near a daily occurrence I say. We just don’t want to know about literature, art, history and other topics such as philosophy, psychology and sociology. There is not money to be made in those topics, or so we think. Having a knowledge base in any or all 0f those areas can be beneficial, it certainly can not hurt.
At the primary level kids today do not generally have too much involvement from their parents. This can not help the situation at all. Kids do get taught stuff, they just don’t get taught the meaning of what they learn. For instance I was recently reading a book on Hamilton. I asked my daughter (11) if she knew who he was and she explained how he and Jefferson were rivals and why and how Hamilton helped develop our government and banking system etc… So I was stunned. I read a lot of history, so I’m not entirely surprised that she remembered that from class. I was stunned they taught it to her at all. But in general she and her classmates will most likely not retain this knowledge too far into their future.
But I think the main reason American’s appear to be stoopid is that the media (conservative dominated media) has pushed the polarization of the country for the last 13 years to the point where people here what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe. If the media keeps playing the Bush Message of 9/11, WMD, Sadaam over and over with little questioning then that is what people will believe. Later when those connections prove to be invalid the people continue to believe them because they have been conditioned to not trust the press anymore. They heard the first message because it’s what they wanted to hear and ignored the second because it did not jibe with what they wanted to hear. Then they simply turn to Fox News and avoid the dissenting message altogether and simply sip straight from the propaganda cup. It is so much easier to not have to think. It reminds me of a phrase I once saw “Blame Clinton, it’s easier than thinking.” A friend of mine actually blamed Clinton for Sadaam being in power. She was angry for 911 and said this would never have happened if Clinton had taken out Sadaam when he had our Army over there for the first war. So she had, and still does have, a notion that 911 was strictly the result of Clinton incompetence and Sadaam’s pure evil. And this girl is a college grad and was her high school class valedictorian. So she has the ability to be smart, she just chooses not to be.
December 29th, 2005 at 5:22 pm#165 I find your comment to be very funny. I am completing my MBA next month and when we had our economic class the instructor, a very conservative Republican type, admitted to the class that trickle down theory only works on paper and that it did not work in practice. He would not even comment on Laffer (sp) who is considered to be a joke by nearly all who are serious about economics.
If trickle down works, then why have poverty rates risen for 5 years striaght after falling for 8 years straight? Currently the effect is a trickle up effect. My buying power is diminishing while my wages are rising. Funny how that works. My company has recieved billions in tax breaks over the last 4 years and yeat we still pay generally the same wages, we still charge generally the same prices and we have not gone on any major capital building spree’s. SO the effects of lower taxes have not really filtered back to the economy. Real world example. Simple.
December 29th, 2005 at 5:28 pm#158 Marie,
I was born and raised in Boston and since I’ve been married and started a family we’ve chosen to move further from the city to afford a more spacious home, more privacy and a big old back yard surrounded by woods. My wife and I both grew up in the city, and we surely miss the culture, being closer to our families and a really good slice of pizza, but no complaints here…we consider ourselves fortunate. I always laugh at the characterization in national circles of Boston as a bastion of left-wing sin and debauchery. Sure there are elements of liberal/progressive thought and politics (it’s a huge college town….more brainpower = more progressive/enlightened if you ask me), but at the end of the day greater Boston has a huge blue collar population (from which I proudly came from) comprised of a high % of Irish and Italian Americans, mostly Catholic and socially conservative on so many fronts.
I’ve got a relative that I haven’t spoken with for over a year because we had a blowout over our politics. She’s horrified that I’m a “liberal” (her heavily media tainted summation of course) and I’m horrified that she takes Rush Limbaugh seriously and has been suckered into believing the rightwings lies and bullshi*. I refuse to give an inch because I will not compromise what I know is right and true…I’m sure she feels the same. Sad, but true, lotsa purple in every state.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:01 pm#170, Jay,
December 29th, 2005 at 6:08 pmChicago – Similar upbringing (blue collar) and circumstances however. I do like living 35 miles from the big city for the culture, the ethnicity, etc.
I appreciated your comment wherein you noted
college town….more brainpower = more progressive/enlightened if you ask me
because I have expressed the same observation. In general, academia tends to be liberal because they tend to be more open to debates and discussion, are more aware of social implications, don’t see things in black and white, but often in shades of gray.
Anyway, thanks for your good posts — I like to read them.
I was an architect on projects for the Elk Grove Unified School District (the one Michael Newdow sued over the pledge) when I lived in California. They were so afraid of being sued over every tiny little thing that they focused on buracracy rather than the students. I’m not surprised they have fallen to 46th place. They probably helped contribute to the 22% documented in this post.
Comment by unbelievable — December 29, 2005 @ 3:33 pm
Talk about frivolous lawsuits… and I don’t mean Newdow necessarily. The ACLU and people like Newdow do what they have to do because the courts are where all the theocratic and conservative activism end up. Their side is clogging up the civil courts constantly with ridiculous lawsuits to advance their agenda. Prop. 13 and the war on progress which has been going on since the New Deal is the problem. These people want to roll us back to the days of the robber barons and before child labor laws with Corporations and Churches being the greatest political forces in America. Over their dead bodies.
In 1995, according to the FBI there were 1,751 hate crimes in California (31,575,724 pop). Louisiana (2,681,595 pop)had 7. Idaho (1,154,533 pop) had 114.
I just think it creates more hate to generalize, and isn’t fair to the majority who do not act that way.
Comment by unbelievable
CA is also a state that leads the nation in collecting that data. So that may explain why CA has such high numbers. It may be higher in other states that don’t want to collect that data so carefully for political reasons. The FBI doesn’t collect it, it accepts it on a voluntary basis from around the country. Look up UCR, Uniform Crime Reporting act. As of 2001, Bush stopped the collection of hate crime data.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:20 pmMarie, love your city. It’s the one I’ve visited most in the U.S. and IMHO it’s neck and neck with Boston as best in the country (lived in N.Y. too and it’s great but too much for me). Some friends and I were out this past summer for the Red Sox-Cubs series, outstanding time as always. One thing I find interesting about Chicago from a political standpoint is that it seems to have strong present-day Democrat/progressive leanings, but wasn’t the whole Leo Strauss neoconservative philosophy hatched at the University of Chicago? Is that school (beauty campus by the way) a rightwing stronghold? Just curious.
Sorry to be so off topic.
Peace and Happy New Year to all, cynicon’s and aphrodite’s included.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:26 pmSO the effects of lower taxes have not really filtered back to the economy. Real world example. Simple.
Comment by Mark — December 29, 2005 @ 5:28 pm
Trickle down, LOL. Trickle on is more like it. Not only is it a con job for the rubes and yokels, try getting it to work during a period when so many people think the world is coming to an end. If it was ever going to have an effect it would be in a mid century period of peace and prosperity and relatively low levels of fear and fear mongering. That’s not where we are now. It’s always been a sham for the rubes to benefit the rich.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:27 pmLife is so very simple now.
Conservative Republican / bad.
Liberal progressive / good!
December 29th, 2005 at 6:32 pmIn 1995, according to the FBI there were 1,751 hate crimes in California (31,575,724 pop). Louisiana (2,681,595 pop)had 7. Idaho (1,154,533 pop) had 114.
I just think it creates more hate to generalize, and isn’t fair to the majority who do not act that way.
Comment by unbelievable
CA is also a state that leads the nation in collecting that data. So that may explain why CA has such high numbers. It may be higher in other states that don’t want to collect that data so carefully for political reasons. The FBI doesn’t collect it, it accepts it on a voluntary basis from around the country. Look up UCR, Uniform Crime Reporting act. As of 2001, Bush stopped the collection of hate crime data.
Comment by sad day for america — December 29, 2005 @ 6:20 pm
Actually, based on population Idaho is almost twice as bad as California percentage wise (9.87 to 5.54). I’ve lived in Boise as well where there were like 4 murders per year. It was much more racist than the South, oddly enough. Probably because most everyone there was WASP or WASM(moron) and had never had the exposure to diversity. But that’s just my opinion. Overall, Califronia was about average. The FBI did list the number of reporting authorities and based on size of these states, it seems that they were elatively equal in per square footage number of reporting authorities.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:57 pmTalk about frivolous lawsuits… and I don’t mean Newdow necessarily. The ACLU and people like Newdow do what they have to do because the courts are where all the theocratic and conservative activism end up. Their side is clogging up the civil courts constantly with ridiculous lawsuits to advance their agenda. Prop. 13 and the war on progress which has been going on since the New Deal is the problem. These people want to roll us back to the days of the robber barons and before child labor laws with Corporations and Churches being the greatest political forces in America. Over their dead bodies.
One lawsuit they were in was over a new middle school / high school where a handful of retired laywers did not want a school in their backyards. Would they have prefered a prison? Shopping Center? So the District was spending boat loads of money on laywers, reports about environment and traffic, etc. instead of the students. It was really ridiculous. The District wound up winning that suit, but it was funny to hear them complain about the Newdow suit because I’m an Atheist and of course, they didn’t know.
But you’re right – lots of frivolity.
December 29th, 2005 at 7:01 pmHey! I’m a WASP! Or a WASM…
But it’s true, the south has no monopoly on racism. Idaho and eastern WA state are full of white supremacists and such… CA has it’s share.
December 29th, 2005 at 7:04 pmThe District wound up winning that suit, but it was funny to hear them complain about the Newdow suit because I’m an Atheist and of course, they didn’t know.
How can you be so sure there is no God? Even Newdow isn’t that certain. His explanation is pretty good if I recall. read it on his website once awhile back.
I don’t give it alot of thought…
December 29th, 2005 at 7:09 pmjay,
December 29th, 2005 at 7:16 pmjust now caught your post #44. i’m really glad you agree. it feels good to know that i’m not the only one running around feeling like the walls are closing in while everyone around me seems to be eyes glazed over oblivious. 911 is what caused me to realize i needed to wake up and check out what the hell is going on also. it just didn’t make any sense to me that what happened on that day was a bunch of rogue terrorists “hating us for our freedom”. and as it turns out, my gut instinct was right. well anyway, i don’t want to digress, it sounds like you know exactly what i’m talking about…. oh, and zookeeper, if you are reading, there was no need for you to apologize, but thanks. peace to both of you.
According to Bushy, Osama Bin Laden warned that he would bankrupt America.
My fellow American’s Bushy has done Bin Ladens dirty work.
It’s time to remove Bushy from the White House now!
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. Treasury Secretary
John Snow warned lawmakers on Thursday that a legally set limit on the government’s ability to borrow will be hit in mid-February and urged Congress to raise it quickly.
Failure to do so potentially risks throwing the country into its first default in history, Snow warned in what has become virtually an annual rite as U.S. borrowing needs spiral.
“The administration now projects that the statutory debt limit, currently $8.184 trillion, will be reached in mid-February 2006,” Snow said in a letter to 21 members of the U.S. House of Representatives and Senate released by Treasury after financial markets had closed.
Snow said that Treasury, if the debt limit was not raised by then, would have to take “extraordinary actions” to keep paying its bills for everything from
December 29th, 2005 at 7:24 pmSocial Security to national defense spending.
Say no to allowing more debt! Leave Iraq, problem solved!
————–
From USA Today 9/6/03:
Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link
————–
December 29th, 2005 at 7:43 pmHow can you be so sure there is no God? Even Newdow isn’t that certain. His explanation is pretty good if I recall. read it on his website once awhile back.
I don’t give it alot of thought…
Comment by sad day for america — December 29, 2005 @ 7:09 pm
The lack of proof of one… there really in no intelligent design when you study anatomy (what caused Darwin to abandon religion) but plenty of evidence of evolution, no perfection in the system when you study astronomy and geography and see how ad hoc it is, and a hundred other little things, like if creation is the premise then what creator created god, and what created that creator and so on ad infinitum when the universe just being is really so much more rational. No way a god capable of creating anything would create this. It’s not what I’d create and I’m just an imperfect human being. It just doesn’t make sense with what exists. It never has for me. And the risk of giving up this life for what might follow seems insane, frankly. But, I did think about it a lot. I grew up Christian. I like this better. It’s the ultimate in freedom…
I don’t know – how is anyone certain about anything, really? Just just make a decision based on what seems right for you and you run with it… :)
December 29th, 2005 at 8:03 pmDevlin, aint cha never heard of it?
Its called Propaganda. and Tyranny.
————–
From USA Today 9/6/03:
Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link
————–
Comment by Devlin Buckley — December 29, 2005 @ 7:43 pm
December 29th, 2005 at 8:54 pmUnbelievable – and they folks graduated high school? Do they know the difference between the front of the bodies and the back of their bodies? How sad. How stupid. Can’t wait for the Rapture to come and get these folks. Maybe then, there will be peace on earth.
December 29th, 2005 at 10:15 pmI actually think most Iraqis are thankful the U.S. and others overthrew Saddam Husseinn and that the sacrifice has been worth it. Humanity is tragedy. It is unfortunate that we must resort to such a disgusting and horrible thing as war to improve ourselves, but it is a necessary evil.
Thousands more were killed in WWII, but if we had not killed and mutilated thousands of Germans Europe wouldn’t be free, and many more in the concentration camps would have perished. We are not even beginning to approach the number casualties of War sustained then.
However, ugly and degrading the War in Iraq is, it is a beautiful and wonderful thing. It is not something to be ashamed about. All Americans should be proud of efforts in Iraq. Otherwise “the Greatest Generation’s†sacrifice was just as wrong and shameful as what we’re doing today. I for one don’t think it is.
Comment by Lyle — December 29, 2005 @ 1:33 pm
This sounds like something straight out of the greek playbook, that the Elite rule, and that Humanity is a tragedy and only thru Elite intellectuals can the Balance of Civilization be maintained, and saved from the big bad dragon. YaY! YaY hale thy mighty Whiffenpoofs! Hale thy Lawyers! who will save us from Ugly Peace! We cannot have ugly Peace, right Lyle?….
This, to me, is Empiricist Logic, Lyle, quite antiquidated thinking. You say you have been to China to study law, yet you seem to ignore current science and physics when it comes to the ‘intellectual’ Latin you are, or have learned, and see the stars and heavens as deities (sp) or that Government officials are demi-gods of sorts?
Since you ’see’ war as a ‘Necessary tragedy’, guessing that you, Lyle, not having to serve likely generated your ‘Intellectual’ viewpoint. Though you ‘think’ most Iraqis are grateful, where you get this I dont know, the majority actually want the US to leave, but to support them.
You talk alot about WE, death and mutilation and Beauty History shows many wars were Fomented, that is both sides were Financed by other entities. Surely you as a Lawyer, and an ‘Intellectual’, know this.
Pray tell Lyle, in your view, what is a Intellectual? A lawyer, say like Anne Coulter? Or Bob Novak? Bill O’Rielly wrote a Book, is he an Intellectual? So Did Bush (karenhughes) is George an Intellectual? IS there a Test to take to be an Intellectual? A card to put in your Wallet?
If War and death, to you, are ‘Beautiful’ Lyle, perhaps Law books trade for rifle, your suit for Army uniform, go Shoot some ‘Beautifu’ People, Lyle.Come back later Lyle, and tell Us in your Beautiful dreams you have every night, How Beautiful it was, when depression cripples you and steals you from your loved ones, LYLE, Remember that Beautiful day, when you Shot another Human Lyle, because it was a Beautiful and necessary tragedy.
Think about that Lyle. Tell us how Beautiful it was, and if it was worth it. If its So ‘Beautiful’ Join, you dont need money or a career Lyle, meaning, if you KNOW where ‘Beauty’ is, Haul ass.On a Boat and Wave goodbye. Beauty calls you, do you hear it? Go Lyle, Human Tragedy beckons, will you rise to the occasion or become another Leather Sofa Warrior at some LaW office?, spewing as you do today, about How Beautiful War is, Just think Lyle, you HAVE a chance to be that real MAN!, DO IT LYLE, its Beauty, Remember?
Go see it, play in it, Bathe in it, Dont be a wannabee weekend Warrior Lyle. Go See the Beauty up close and personal, like a Big Screen with surround sound, Beautiful, right?
The Beautiful hot Sand, and those beautiful dead bodies Lyle. Think of the Dreams you could Have. The Medals. Lyle the Hero Killed ‘Beautifully’. You could hang that on the Wall by your Law degree, be the Big Boy on the 13th floor. Swagger to the Water Cooler.
That is, if ‘Beauty’ doesn’t Kill you, or blow your leg off first Lyle.
OYE
December 29th, 2005 at 10:23 pm“Unbelievable – and they folks graduated high school?”
heh..
December 29th, 2005 at 10:43 pmgonna Play devils Advocate for the 22%, as to recent discussion;
After finally hearing enough about Fair and Balanced TV, and the Liberal Media, it was time to state my opinions on the matter, now Im about as smart as my dog, so I started in with what I had read from FOIA releases, HR reports, Congress Floor Debates and modern Weaponry. Since Faux news was doing the War on Christmas, which I never ‘Got’, Also we got into some discussion about the Winter Solstice, the sumerian circle (NOT Aliens), The Quell or Q document that jesus was born on march 3,, Which they never heard of, and so on..
They didnt want to know anymore. Change the Subject. Well , why why why?
December 29th, 2005 at 10:49 pmThe answer finally was “comfort talk” Some people simply cannot handle all the Political Rhetoric, War reports, and the Constant media spin, they are overwhelmed. I have nothing against these people, some are family, 22% overall, considering senior citizens, and the Jerry Springers isnt all that Bad, its freedom that allows them watch their “comfort shows”.
My choice is simply to change the channel, and argue on the Bloggz, with other dog smart people…=)
A September 1991 Time/CNN poll found 16 per cent of Americans believed Elvis was still alive.
So much for polls authenticating reality.
December 29th, 2005 at 10:52 pmUnbelievable @ #183,
You misunderstand. I agree with you 100%. No such entity as that poostulated by evangelists exists. When I speak of this certainty that atheists have that I am uncomfortable with, I refer to ontological arguments and metaphysical considerations and ultimate causation. How did that singularity get there? That tiny, super-densley packed point that contained all the matter in the universe before the Big Bang. And who or what might have lit that fuse? If I try to imagine this thing, entity ir being that people speak of as God… I find that I imagine it much like that very singularity.
A September 1991 Time/CNN poll found 16 per cent of Americans believed Elvis was still alive.
So much for polls authenticating reality.
Comment by kuvasz — December 29, 2005
And 2000 years from now, he will still be the King of Kings, Graceland will be the name of Heaven or paradise and he will have followers and worshipers all over the world in a monotheistic and paternalistic religion full of miracles and silly superstitions not unlike that backwards form of christianity practiced on television 24/7 all around the world.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:33 pm22% Percentage of Americans who believe that Saddam Huissein helped plan 9/11.
My response: my poop don’t stink since those who belong to that 25% of Americans above whose empty skulls do reek something awful are the foulest and the most hopeless dumb asses in the planet.
December 30th, 2005 at 12:05 amI have built it. Will you come? http://www.boycott-republicans.com
December 30th, 2005 at 5:23 am“Further, the process of transformation,
even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
new Pearl Harbor.”
Document signed by:
Paul Wolfowitz
I. Lewis Libby
William Kristol
among others
Other members of PNAC:
Elliott Abrams
John R. Bolton
Dick Cheney
Donald Rumsfeld
Jeb Bush
Charles Krauthammer
Richard Perle
Dan Quayle
+more
____________________
Learn more here:
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&geopolitics_and_9/11=centralAsia
“Everyone wants to go to Baghdad. Real men want to go to Tehran.â€
David Armstrong notes in Harper’s magazine: “[In 1992] the goal was global dominance, and it met with bad reviews. Now it is the answer to terrorism. The emphasis is on preemption, and the reviews are generally enthusiastic. Through all of this, the dominance motif remains, though largely undetected.â€
“We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality–judiciously, as you will–we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.” For those who didn’t like it, another Bush adviser explained, “Let me clue you in. We don’t care. You see, you’re outnumbered two to one by folks in the big, wide middle of America, busy working people who don’t read the New York Times or Washington Post or the LA Times.”
Is it any wonder why people still will connect Saddam with 9/11 and Al quada? Look up the recent poll. And it’s not that strange that 9/11 happened during Bush’s watch. It was perfect for them. You can’t deny that. They have constantly called 9/11 an opportunity. The opportunity to go ahead with PNAC plan that is.
____________________________
December 30th, 2005 at 10:16 amJanuary 2001: Outgoing Clinton officials say “The Bush team thinks we’re obsessed with terrorism”.
http://contentoverpresentation.blogspot.com/2005/01/history-of-clinton-bush-and-terrorism.html
#192 Ben Franklin – man you are a national treasure :)
I will pass it along to my friends as well. You should post it around, if you haven’t. People will love this!
December 30th, 2005 at 11:24 amFACT:
December 30th, 2005 at 11:32 am-22% of Americans have the same brain matter, by volume, as the housefly you plaster on the wall with your rolled up newspaper.
22% of Americans have glass stomachs in order to see where they are going with their heads so far up their asses.
I have an idea. Texas should succeed, then all 22% of the morons can go live there and have their own country!
December 30th, 2005 at 10:29 pmWhat part of gulag do you not understand?
http://www.google.com/ search?hl=en&safe=off&q=china+gulag&btnG=Search&meta=
Clearly you missed the reports that we have have U.S. gulags. Might wanna try something other than FAUX “news”.
So in a country where the press and internet are censored you take what someone paid to give tourists an impression of China said at face value. Then came here to complain about US propaganda. Sheeeesh.
First of all, you weren’t there, so you don’t know the context of my conversations with people. Second of all, unlike you, I can see right through propaganda – Chinese or American because they all do it. It’s why I’m a liberal. Third of all, you’re just a jerk who gets off on inserting his ignorant neocon assumptions to belittle others.
Why don’t you try thinking for a change. It doesn’t make sense that people of the Chinese culture would be violent. Based on their culture, not ours, they are not a violent people. Their government might be brutal (and it is), but that doesn’t define the Chinese people anymore than Darth Vader and his puppet Peeping George define American people. They are a culture that largely does not believe in violence. Something you clearly never learned.
I honestly have a hard time believing you are not a troll. Comparing the Chinese to the US in terms of prisons is like the Rwandan military critcising Canada over machette handling.
No it’s not. They have a Dictator and we have a Dictator. Same circumstances. The difference is that the Chinese military hasn’t attacked any third world countries lately…
The thing you’re missing is that our governement teaches violence to our people. When we don’t like someone, or want their oil, we go drop bombs on them and say it was in the name of Democracy. And there is a defined correlation between role modeling and the behavior of a society as a result. The role model for people in this country who watch our ‘benevolent’ Dick-tator use violence to solve his problems is that killing people to get your way is OKAY. Last I heard, China’s government was involved in talks. Bet that kind of example setting just makes you wet yourself. You better be glad they aren’t as trigger happy as we are. With the size of their military, we wouldn’t stans a chance. Even the idiots in the White House know that.
You’re the troll, neocon.
Read up. While people here compare Bush to Hitler on the basis of propaganda campaigns others compare the Chinese to the Nazis in terms of the amount of people they have worked to death in forced labour camps. Spot the difference?
Comment by Wooberstank — December 31, 2005 @ 3:35 am
I have ‘read up’, apparently more reality-based information than the fear-mongering re-written nonsense you once read in a high school textbook. Why don’t you try the real world. Speak to actual people instead of reading the propaganda the neocons want you to buy. And try your brain – common sense in this case is in my favor. All you have is blind loyalty to a broken system and a whole lot of nothing of value.
And yes, you do ’stank’.
January 1st, 2006 at 9:15 amRead up. While people here compare Bush to Hitler on the basis of propaganda campaigns others compare the Chinese to the Nazis in terms of the amount of people they have worked to death in forced labour camps. Spot the difference?
Comment by Wooberstank — December 31, 2005 @ 3:35 am
People here aren’t comparing China to the Nazis – they are comparing the Bush Regime ot it. Because we’ve currently got the entire Middle class in forced labor… and they are dying of heart attacks or strokes or the side effects of their anti-depressant medicine… or did you miss that too?
January 1st, 2006 at 9:21 amBuddhism and Taoism have been a part of Chinese culture for thousands of years. Let’s see what they have to say:
The greatest achievement is selflessness.
The greatest worth is self-mastery.
The greatest quality is seeking to serve others.
The greatest precept is continual awareness.
The greatest medicine is the emptiness of everything.
The greatest action is not conforming with the worlds ways.
The greatest wisdom is seeing through appearances.
Atisha (Buddhist)
You can explore the universe looking for somebody who is more deserving of your love and affection than you are yourself, and you will not find that person anywhere.
-Buddhist saying
Conquer the angry man by love.
Conquer the ill-natured man by goodness.
Conquer the miser with generosity.
Conquer the liar with truth.
The Dhammapada (Buddhist)
In Aryans’ Discipline, to build a friendship is to build wealth,
To maintain a friendship is to maintain wealth and
To end a friendship is to end wealth.
Cakkavatti Sutta, Patika Vagga, Dighanikaya
Solitude is happiness for one who is content, who has heard the Dhamma and clearly sees.
Non-affliction is happiness in the world – harmlessness towards all living beings.
Udana 10
The fool thinks he has won a battle when he bullies with harsh speech,
but knowing how to be forbearing alone makes one victorious.
Samyutta Nikaya I, 163
Judeo-Christian religions have been a philosophical basis for American culture for 230 years. Let’s see what they have to say:
“A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.”
(Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
“Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you.”
(Genesis 22:1-18)
“Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.’
Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan answered David: “The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.”
(2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)
“But if this charge is true, and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.”
(Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Pretty obvious which culture is going to be less violent.
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