The Moussaoui Myth
The Moussaoui Myth
One of the big arguments advanced by the right is that Bush’s warrantless domestic spying program could have prevented 9/11. The Washington Post gave Bill Kristol and Gary Schmitt space to make this argument on December 20:
Consider the case of Zacarias Moussaoui, the French Moroccan who came to the FBI’s attention before Sept. 11 because he had asked a Minnesota flight school for lessons on how to steer an airliner, but not on how to take off or land. Even with this report, and with information from French intelligence that Moussaoui had been associating with Chechen rebels, the Justice Department decided there was not sufficient evidence to get a FISA warrant to allow the inspection of his computer files. Had they opened his laptop, investigators might have begun to unwrap the Sept. 11 plot. But strange behavior and merely associating with dubious characters don’t rise to the level of probable cause under FISA.
One problem: Kristol and Schmitt are completely wrong. Coleen Rowley, a former FBI agent who testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee in 2002, wrote into the Washington Post to correct them:
[N]o evidence of Moussaoui’s suspicious flight training and ties with terrorism was presented to the Justice Department. The department was never contacted and so did not decide anything; therefore, no decision was ever made regarding the given evidence and its subsequent application to FISA standards.
That means the FISA procedures were not the reason the FBI failed to inspect Moussaoui’s computer files. Rather, the FBI’s failure to share and analyze intelligence sufficiently is what enabled Moussaoui to escape further investigation.
Kristol and Schmitt conclude their op-ed sanctimoniously: “to engage in demagogic rhetoric about ‘imperial’ presidents and ‘monarchic’ pretensions, with no evidence that the president has abused his discretion, is foolish and irresponsible.”
The law, even for the President, is not discretionary. What’s foolish and irresponsible is to use phony evidence to advance outlandish claims in one of the nation’s most widely read newspapers.
UPDATE: Rowley posted the unabbreviated version of her letter on The Agonist.
UPDATE II: Gary Schmitt responds in the comments by referrencing this blog post. It’s just as innaccurate and misleading as the original column.
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Of course, the Bush administration flatly ignored the warning “Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States.” So, are we to believe it was the inability to get a wiretap warrant that resulted in 9/11? Bush and his circle are inept. They were given overt intelligence information prior to 9/11 and failed to act. It’s laughable to think some missing wiretap would’ve magically made this administration competent.
December 29th, 2005 at 12:45 pmHow long will it take for the tinfoil eunuchs to post on this one? Ineffectual men who lack power , effectiveness, and function. Pretty much sums up the president who allowed America to be attacked in the first place.
December 29th, 2005 at 12:45 pmLet’s see if Kristol and Schmitt retract their statements in light of this correction – I’m not holding my breath. It’s astonishing that these idiots can publish such nonsense as fact without any repercussions. These talking heads consistently make utter fools of themselves and much of the populace is too ignorant to notice. Sometimes I feel that it’s a losing battle – as quickly as TP and others debunk one myth they’re publishing another – very discouraging.
December 29th, 2005 at 12:50 pmBetween the spy scandel, plamegate and Abu Ghraib their should be an impeachment process started by now. What is wrong with our country? Our Media? The news about Clinton’s sex life went on for a year..and now Bush should be tried as a war criminal and: nothing.
This should be a breakthrough moment for the Democrats and we still do not have any traction. How many people have these clowns paid off?
December 29th, 2005 at 12:55 pmThis administration could not have stopped 9/11 because they were not paying attention. It had nothing to do with being tethered by the need for warrants. They had no clue anything was going on! As the 9/11 Commission put it so well, it was a “failure of imagination.”
December 29th, 2005 at 1:00 pmThe New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11 – David Ray Griffin
reading this 9/11 would certainly been avoided …Man oh man written by a christain guy that all he asks for is a public enquiry …..how embarassing to have Bush as a president …Even I smell a rat now
December 29th, 2005 at 1:02 pmwake up America smell the coffee 9/11 could have been avoided 100% but seeing as Bushes grandparents helps the Nazi’s in 1939 ..Its to no suprise Bush let 9/11 happen without a shadow of a doubt, I have read the above book also
December 29th, 2005 at 1:07 pmI don’t buy he let it happen, it gives him way too much credit for thinking. It was pure Bush incompetence and ineffectiveness that allowed America to be attacked on 9/11.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:18 pmRemember the old saying: The harder I work the luckier I get. It’s no coincidence that Bush has been most unlucky during his month-long vacations.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:29 pmBy circumventing the Laws of the United States of America, The President is aiding and abetting terrorists by giving them a legal recourse for dismissal of charges against them. He is a traitor to the Constitution and the American people. Simple as that….impeach the bas(re)tard.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:31 pmwhys it sord hard to beleive that Bush let 9/11 happen are you missing all the facts read the book — The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11 – David Ray Griffin
Ask all the FBI officers who had there investigations Blocked ask them theres plenty around ask foreign goverments read the book ……..then i forgive you for being ignorant on Bushes behalf
December 29th, 2005 at 1:34 pmDoesn’t anyone remember the Observer story about how the NSA wiretapped the UN in the Bushies’ push for war?
December 29th, 2005 at 1:37 pmyou dont need to torture these people its spin …its still Bush pretanding he knew nothing looks good for him , Bush will get caught soon he knew all about 9/11
December 29th, 2005 at 1:38 pmok folks, we did respond. check out blog on the weekly standard website. turns out the real “myth” is Rowley’s assertion that FISA’s standard had nothing to do with failure to search Moussaoui’s laptop — as detailed by the joint congressional committee that investigated the matter.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:42 pmThink Progress provides the enemy comfort and aid on a daily basis.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:53 pm#15 What are you saying, exactly?
December 29th, 2005 at 1:56 pmFight it. . .fight the urge to respond. . .remember they bring nothing to the debate. . .fight it. . .
December 29th, 2005 at 1:57 pmLocke
They will post regardless, that is why I try to expose them for tinfoil eunuchs they are.
December 29th, 2005 at 1:59 pmYou know, I learned how to share in kindergarten, and how cooperation is much more effective than competition. Our government should leave the competition to the annual Army Navy game. . .
December 29th, 2005 at 2:01 pmTrue, Citizen, but even exposure will not stop them. It just denegrates into name-calling, talking point spewing hash and re-hash. What can you achieve from this?
December 29th, 2005 at 2:02 pmGary:
Thanks for responding but the blog post you reference is just as misleading as your original article. By selectively quoting the Congressional joint inquiry, it pretends that issues raised by FBI agents were genuine hurdles imposed by FISA. In fact, as the same joint inquiry reveals, FISA presented no barriers. It was simply a case of a poorly trained agent:
It’s time to start being honest about this. I think a correction to the Post would be a good start.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:04 pmLocke,
It achieves two objectives (in my humble opinion); it castrates their regurgitated talking points, and it shows that some progressives will not only fight back but keep swinging for the face until we win the fight.
Now, I speak only for myself and realize that many progressives may not agree, which is ok. However, must have some who will take nor give any quarter on our side.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:22 pmThe Standard’s a typical republican site. Try disputing something over there – you can’t, because the intellectual weaklings don’t have a comments section. They are punks.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:22 pmMerry? Did you finally get married to Lloyd?
(In case you are wondering Lloyd Christmas was the main charcter in Dumb and Dumber and the girl he was chasing was named Mary(Merry). I always thougth it was great how the writers put that in. If they were married she would be Mary Christmas. Sorry off topic but funny…at least to me.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:32 pmExcellent point, Citizen, well made. I, unfortunately, have only seen the futility of it. In that case, keep up the good fight!
December 29th, 2005 at 2:33 pmThink Progress provides the enemy comfort and aid on a daily basis.
Comment by Merry Christmas — December 29, 2005 @ 1:53 pm
Facts and truth gives the enemy aid and comfort? Now who is unAmerican?
December 29th, 2005 at 2:40 pmDon’t forget Coleen is running for Congress:
December 29th, 2005 at 2:41 pm
Think Progress provides the enemy comfort and aid on a daily basis.
Facts and truth gives the enemy aid and comfort? Now who is unAmerican?
December 29th, 2005 at 2:41 pmhttp://www.coleenrowley.org/
December 29th, 2005 at 2:41 pm#15 Please explain that statement and please back it up in some fashion. Merely babbling isn’t an intelligent discussion. Please elaborate how this is being done and how you know.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:45 pmRight on Judd! I see he scampered off with no retort after being debunked. I believe this website is aiding with the progression of our nation better than most. I applaud and thank all of you for your hard work.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:47 pm#28 It’s tantamount to a young child calling another a dummy and then running. It is INANE. As inane as UNintelligent design. Evolution isn’t proven – good grief! The neocons prove daily that they are just about 10 minutes from their former apedom.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:49 pm#19 – “You know, I learned how to share in kindergarten, and how cooperation is much more effective than competition.” – Locke
December 29th, 2005 at 3:04 pm**** Dear Locke – I learned to share at home. Mom didn’t wait for the kindergarten teacher to do MOM’s job – I took that skill to kindergarten. Cooperation is often necessary BUT competition brings out the best – except for losers. They then must try harder – it’s called “human nature” – something many progs don’t get and wish to bypass
Think Progress provides the enemy comfort and aid on a daily basis.
Comment by Merry Christmas — December 29, 2005
That’s a lie. We hope you and Bush get no rest or peace or comfort or aid until you are all in prison, or banished to some other country. Although I can’t think of many that would want you, Israel or Saudi Arabia perhaps if the Israelis come to their senses some day.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:04 pm#19 – “You know, I learned how to share in kindergarten, and how cooperation is much more effective than competition.†– Locke
**** Dear Locke – I learned to share at home. Mom didn’t wait for the kindergarten teacher to do MOM’s job – I took that skill to kindergarten. Cooperation is often necessary BUT competition brings out the best – except for losers. They then must try harder – it’s called “human nature†– something many progs don’t get and wish to bypass
Comment by mighty aphrodite
neo-luddite
December 29th, 2005 at 3:05 pm#19 – “You know, I learned how to share in kindergarten, and how cooperation is much more effective than competition.†– Locke
**** Dear Locke – I learned to share at home. Mom didn’t wait for the kindergarten teacher to do MOM’s job – I took that skill to kindergarten. Cooperation is often necessary BUT competition brings out the best – except for losers. They then must try harder – it’s called “human nature†– something many progs don’t get and wish to bypass
Comment by mighty aphrodite
BTW,
Judging by your “nature” which may or may not be human, your mom failed…
December 29th, 2005 at 3:07 pmMerry? Did you finally get married to Lloyd?
(In case you are wondering Lloyd Christmas was the main charcter in Dumb and Dumber and the girl he was chasing was named Mary(Merry). I always thougth it was great how the writers put that in. If they were married she would be Mary Christmas. Sorry off topic but funny…at least to me.
Comment by dlet — December 29,
ROFL!
December 29th, 2005 at 3:09 pmWe have GOT to OUT those PNAC (project for a new Pearl Harbor) creeps:
Bill Kristol is constantly on tv and in papers WITHOUT MENTION that he is the FOUNDER and CHAIRMAN of the Project for a New American Century.
Also: Dick Cheney, Frank Gaffney, Jeb Bush, Rummy, us amassador to irag: khalilzad
PLEASE MENTION it EACH TIME THEY TRY TO SPIN SHIT IN THE DIRECTION OF FASCISM, as they’re doing here. Thanks.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:12 pmIsn’t this all beside the point?
Let’s assume Kristol and Schmitt are completely right. The proper procedure is to amend the law. Moussaoui is not a US citizen, it is likely that amending the law to allow warrentless wiretaps of non-citizens would receive little protest. Or at least less protest than wiretaps of citizens.
But the proper procedure is not to ignore the law.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:29 pmThis is exactly the sort of thing that has gone on for 5 years. The right wing grossly distorts information, and sometimes even outright falsifies the facts in print and electronic media. They sanctimoniously present their version as unadulterated truth, appearing credible to their audiences. The mainstream media does not correct their inaccuracies (I am being kind here) and if anyone offers a correction later, it is relegated to the back pages, a footnote, or otherwise unnoted.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:32 pmBush&Co have gotten away with this for so long now that it is their recognized m.o. The press has allowed it to go on, either because they are lazy and/or incompetent, or, more likely, because their superiors, owners, and stockholders will not tolerate a message other than the one they want to present, which favors the Republican/conservtive agenda.
Liberal blogs like TP or the CAP, et al., can scream bloody murder over the travesty that has become the news, but their readers don’t compare in number to the audience reached by the mainstream right wing.
Until the mainstream media vows to take up their mission to provide the complete and accurate news to the public instead of acting as stenographers, we have a steep uphill climb to the truth.
Does any one know what was on Mous’s laptop?
December 29th, 2005 at 3:35 pmMy mother taught me how to share also, but not until I entered school was the practical education on how to employ what she taught in the real world. Mom and Dad can lay the groundwork and supervise you along the way, but what you learn in school (and on the playground) is where your real education takes place.
December 29th, 2005 at 3:52 pmUnfortunately the trolls who post here constantly exhibit how they not only did not learn at their mother’s knee, but they also developed from playground miscreants to misanthropic cretins as adults.
Maybe an intern!
December 29th, 2005 at 3:56 pmDecember 29th, 2005 at 4:06 pm
Marie – My mom was a public school teacher who was constantly amazed how lazy so many parents were. But clever Mom, tried to bring out the best in her students – and she wouldn’t have fallen for the “dog ate my homework” excuses progs seem to have mastered.
December 29th, 2005 at 4:24 pmWASHINGTON (CNN) — Nearly $2 million for a doctor’s office in Washington state; $725,000 to buy land in Florida, and $371,500 to buy land in Oregon are a few examples of questionable federal loans granted for businesses hurt by the 9/11 attacks, according to an official audit.
December 29th, 2005 at 4:27 pmThe fact is that the slow system was the cause for 9/11, and that slow system has been improved by President Bush.
4 Years and 3 Months and ZERO terrorist attacks on US land.
You can’t argue with good results.
December 29th, 2005 at 4:45 pmWrong Gary,
It was his incompetence that allowed 9/11 to happen and we have gone downhill from there.
December 29th, 2005 at 4:51 pmWhat happened?
December 29th, 2005 at 4:55 pmGary:
“You can’t argue with good results.” Is that just a nice way to say “the ends justify the means”? By the way, the first attack on the World Trade Center took place in 1993; the second took place about 8 years later. Gee, Gary, President Clinton did a GREAT job. “Can’t argue with good results.”
December 29th, 2005 at 4:55 pmThinkDefeat’s database seems to be royally screwed up. It looks like they need to fire one of their propaganda ministers and hire a good IT guy.
December 29th, 2005 at 4:57 pm#39
You nailed it, buddy.
The original Washington Post piece is a perfectly-crafted piece of irrelevancy.
Juke ands jive! They duck! They spin! They misdirect!
Too bad those otherwise fine minds are wasted in the service of neoconservatism.
December 29th, 2005 at 4:59 pmIt looks like grade school just let out and the righty tinfoil eunuchs are now posting.
December 29th, 2005 at 5:00 pmUntil the mainstream media vows to take up their mission to provide the complete and accurate news to the public instead of acting as stenographers, we have a steep uphill climb to the truth.
Comment by Marie — December 29, 2005 @ 3:32 pm
I agree with you Marie. I would like to see a better standard of accuracy among the news media. Why can’t we see these corrections up front or in the headlines? Just because they’re not flashy news stories, it doesn’t mean that corrections should be sidelined in favor of entertainment.
(uh oh – I feel a rant coming on…yep, here it is…)
That’s exactly how I’m starting to view most of these ‘news’ agencies these days – full of flashy, attention-grabbing, and entertaining fluff pieces sprinkled in with a small amount of stuff that really matters (the stuff we used to call news).
It’s sad that these networks have to cater to the lowest common denominator and string together a series of 15-20 second sound bites because a majority of their audience doesn’t have the attention span to listen to a thoughtful and thorough story. They would rather change the channel to hear the latest 15-second fit of rage rather than inform themselves about what is really going on in the world.
Where is our “LNN” (Liberal News Network) to counter outlets like Fox? Heck, they don’t even have to claim to be fair and balanced – I just want them to be out there so I can listen to some 15 second sound bites that I actually care about. Who knows – an LNN news station might even dole out some thoughtful news reporting that trancends the crazy, screaming media circus that our mainstream news stations have become.
whew. I feel better now..
December 29th, 2005 at 5:02 pm#47 Under CLinton there were no attacks on US soil for 7 years and 11 months. The only attack (not countirn McVeigh and domestic terrorism such as Abortion CLinic burnings) occured during his first month in office. Not a bad track rrcord. Of course there were attacks overseas…The Embassy Bombings, the barracks bombing, the Cole but there have been thousands of attacks almost daily under Bush too. Simply quantifying that since 9/11 no attacks have occured is a distortion. Attacks have been occuring for 25+ years against all administrations. It’s just that they occur more frequently now days.
December 29th, 2005 at 5:07 pm#53 — No, it’s just that we actually have jobs (as opposed to the perpetually protesting lefty crowd) that we work at everyday to pay for the idiotic social programs you guys think up.
December 29th, 2005 at 5:07 pmYes, Gary, I can see where all those pesky little laws can get in the way of a totalitarian dictatorship. And then there’s that goddammed piece of paper that we know as the Constitution. Lord knows that without all the crap and “protections” that it has in it, well, we could make this world REALLY safe.
Bottom line, from what I see, is that there are two sides to this argument:
Side-1 is the group who believes in the rule of law, the rights and liberties memorialized in the Constitution, and the concept of “equality”.
Side-2, however, believes that the president should have absolute power and be above all law (aka “dictator”, really, look it up) and that any acts, no matter how intrusive or invasive, are justified in the name of “security”, even if they prove to based on false or meritless accusation.
I think everyone should just be honest and say which side that they are on rather than hiding behind smokescreen arguments and blathering on about technicalities.
Speaking of smokescreens, I agree with Aphro that parents should raise their children with the strictest of disipline (the whole cage idea thing seems to work very well for this purpose) and that teachers should just work as extensions of the disciplinary arm and should avoid working to “grow” a child into consciable and thinking adult. I mean, heck, how else are we going to improve on those low figures in the previous diary. Come on people, we’re at 22 and 24%! I think that we can achieve 60-70% if we really put the right effort into it.
December 29th, 2005 at 5:10 pm#50, Ray, Good point. And I might add, the perpetrators of the first WTC attack have been tried and jailed.
December 29th, 2005 at 5:10 pmAnd then there is Implant whose sole purpose is to spew false accusation after false accusation in an effort to derail the thread by coercing people into defended themselves against his/her/its outlandish claims.
Implant, your very existence is laughable and the most compelling argument against “intelligent design” to date.
December 29th, 2005 at 5:20 pmOptimist – pencil me in under “Side 1″
December 29th, 2005 at 5:21 pmamazing that they cant find Moussoaoui information, at least when they dont want to, or didnt want too, convenience lies, Yet TIA still goes on tracking citizens but no bush warrantless spying?
TIA was renamed, of course.
“As for Poindexter’s TIA:
December 29th, 2005 at 5:42 pmAlthough supposedly killed by Congress more than 18 months ago, the Defense Advance Project Research Agency’s Terrorist Information Awareness (TIA) system, formerly called the “Total Information Awareness” program, is alive and well and collecting data in real time on Americans at a computer center located at 3801 Fairfax Drive in Arlington, Virginia.
The system, set up by retired admiral John Poindexter, once convicted of lying to Congress in the Iran-Contra scandal, compiles financial, travel and other data on the day-to-day activities of Americans and then runs that data through a computer model to look for patterns that the agency deems “terrorist-related behavior.”
Poindexter admits the program was quietly moved into the Pentagon’s “black bag” program where it does escapes Congressional oversight.
Of course, the Pentagon and the spook monolith are not interested in the “day-to-day activities” of the vast majority of most Americans, most who have “nothing to hide” (as more than a few witless Americans have told me over the years; for background on this attitude, see Americans split on feds listening in), but rather political enemies of the neocons and their fellow travelers ensconced in the White House and the Department of Forever War. “The Pentagon has built a massive database of Americans it considers threats, including members of antiwar groups, peace activists and writers opposed to the war in Iraq. Pentagon officials now claim they are ‘reviewing the files’ to see if the information is necessary to the ‘war on terrorism,’” Thompson writes.”
-Kurt Nimmo Global research 12.29.05
Nice “rant”, Pellinore! I find that even when I watch something like Countdown on MSNBC (mostly because I enjoy Keith Olbermann), all of the flashing background, graphics, music, etc., just annoy me. It’s like they’re trying to imitate Fux News Channel, whose apparent motto is “put so much crap on the screen that viewers can’t learn anything.”
Since I’m never home at the normal evening news time, there’s not too many places where one can actually find real news later in the evening. I would love an LNN news station which would devote more time and depth to the news.
Marie and American Idiot, good posts (40 and 44, respectively.)
December 29th, 2005 at 5:46 pm#57 – “…parents should raise their children with the strictest of disipline (the whole cage idea thing seems to work very well for this purpose)”
I found locking them in the closet much more effective — no TV watching that way. Just slide flat foods like pancakes and quesadillas under the door. When they turn 18, seal up the crack under the door. Parenting is easy!!
December 29th, 2005 at 5:50 pm*sarcasm off*
The fact is that the slow system was the cause for 9/11, and that slow system has been improved by President Bush.
4 Years and 3 Months and ZERO terrorist attacks on US land.
You can’t argue with good results.
Comment by Gary Ruppert
There hasn’t been a major earthquake in San Francisco since 1906! Huzzah for gay marriages!
December 29th, 2005 at 5:55 pm#15 how can you make a comment like and have no substance to back it up? not very intelligent!
December 29th, 2005 at 5:59 pmJane, I tune into Air America Radio at work — we get it on AM Radio, but only until sundown (FCC rules). We can also stream it on-line all day and evening. It really is a welcome break from the trivia that fills local newscasts not to mention the repetitive non-stories that fill the 24/7 channels.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:01 pmThe fact is that the slow system was the cause for 9/11, and that slow system has been improved by President Bush.
4 Years and 3 Months and ZERO terrorist attacks on US land.
You can’t argue with good results.
Comment by Gary Ruppert
Trolls will use logical fallacies like this Post Hoc fallacy or Questionable Cause fallacy that generally confuse cause and effect.
You can bet your life that if an attack occured on American soil tomorrow, it would be blamed on the Democrats. Children can do better.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:02 pm#57 -Optimist – Maybe YOUR MOM thought cages would be a benefit so she could keep an eye on you -so sorry about THAT! (It explains alot.)
December 29th, 2005 at 6:02 pmAmericans overwhelmingly favor wiretapping suspected terrorists without warrants. Considering Congress was briefed and other Presidents did it, Democrats are treading on very thin ice this winter. Challenging the President on his strong suit will bring more defeat at the polls for progressives.
The problem for the left is you have no positive agenda. Slash and burn has been the Democrats’ post-Gore strategy – a very poor one. You are all so filled with hate and invective it causes you to make poor political decisions. Try focusing on something positive if you have any hopes of defeating the majority party next fall.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:16 pm-Andrea Messner
Marie, I would love to be able to listen to Air America at work, but I’m in customer service and on the phone constantly. Wayne listens to Air America on his computer, and keeps me up to date if any exciting happens. In our area, AA’s signal is not very strong, so listening in the car can be frustrating.
Aphrodite, you mean kids and cages don’t go together? I guess it’s a good thing that Wayne and I have cats instead of kids (haha)!
December 29th, 2005 at 6:19 pmSame argument, no facts from the trolls I see.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:22 pmI guess they don’t see the writing on the wall.
Might have to change the channel from Fox to
get the real info., but they won’t.
That’s okay, their blather is meaningless
anyway. Can get the same B.S. on any right-wing
whack-job media outlet.
Aphro,
I see that you have no argument to put foward so you adopt, or were trained with, the same tactic as Implant, which is to make baseless personal attacks as a means of disguising your own ignorance.
Yet more proof against “intelligent design”. God said that the greatest gift he would grant unto humanity was “free will”. With that acknowledged, and knowing the monumentally superior intelligence that God possesses, it would be an astronomically proportioned design flaw that allows for people to stick their heads as far up their own asses as both Aphro and Implant have obviously acheived.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:23 pmOnce you start to follow the better Blogs,
December 29th, 2005 at 6:29 pmyou realize that the GOP’s spin points are
typically dead before the trolls even get
the new fax, but still they come to spread
the manure, like it still has some power.
Kinda sad, really.
B.S. doesn’t doesn’t play well in this medium
with so many eyes to uncover the lies.
Ms. Messner,
Your claim that Americans overwhelmingly support warrantless searches is dubious at best. What facts support this claim?
Oh, and your generalization about “democrats” is so sophmoric that it’s hillarious. Thanks for the laugh.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:30 pm#70, Andrea: Wow, your post was just wrong from start to finish. “Americans overwhelmingly favor wiretapping suspected terrorists without warrants”? Where’d you come up with that idea? If that’s from a poll, how was the question framed? Give us some references and numbers, please. Why have the FISA court if we all thing wiretapping with warrants is okay? “Congress was briefed”? Yeah, about 8 people, more than half of whom objected to the idea. “Other presidents did it” and followed the laws in effect at that time. Yet what about Nixon’s wiretapping without a warrant? And “Challenging the President on his strong suit” – huh? He has a strong suit? If you mean national security/protecting the homeland, well, apparently you haven’t heard about the 9/11 Commission’s Report Card!
The main problem for the left once we regain power in 2006 will be how to undo all of the messes that Bush has caused, both nationally and internationally. We’ll have an awful lot of work to do, particularly in regaining the trust of our former allies.
There you go – no invective!
December 29th, 2005 at 6:31 pmAfterthought – the empirical evidence you requested: http://www.electionprojection.com/archives120105.html#badnewsbackfires122905 AND calling your ideological opponents liars is hateful and not a good way to win at the polls. You should listen to me – I understand politics and don’t hate you because you are progressive.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:32 pmJane – see #77. AND no, you won’t be in power in 2006. Republicans will. The Democrats have no agenda and refuse to deal with political reality – they will NOT be trusted on terror more than Bush. Just look at the results of the 2002 and 2004 elections. The spying story is left-wing propoganda designed to feed the Orwellian narrative the left has created to trash Bush. It’s a loser at the polls.
But thank you – I appreciate the no invective thing.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:36 pmJane, there’s poll about this. It’s designed badly, and you can read about it here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-kaus/popping-the-wrong-questio_b_12982.html
I think this is what Andrea may be referring to.
Happy New Year, all ya’ll (practicing for my sis visiting from Texas), I’m outta here.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:39 pmMs. Messner,
Your “empirical” evidence is a blog reference to a poll about peoples feelings about each of the political parties? Are you serious or are you just snarking?
December 29th, 2005 at 6:39 pmMs. Xmas,
Your logic is interesting. Factual evidence about the POTUS breaking the law and subverting the Constitution is just “left-wing propoganda”? Wow, you may want to slow down on that vicadin, or oxycotin, or whatever else you’re taking.
Hold it, are you Bill O’Reilly just trolling again? The “Merry Xmas” thing is the dead giveaway. Bill, I know you have some pent up sexual aggression ever since you got shut down harrassing the women folk but dude you need to cut back on the drinking!
December 29th, 2005 at 6:44 pmGary Schmitt responds in the comments by referrencing this blog post. It’s just as innaccurate and misleading as the original column.
Odd, but just like Jean Schmidt the wicked witch of Ohio, if you take out every other letter of Jean or Gary’s last name, you get S-h-i-t. Ad ull to that and you’ve got the substance of everything they utter.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:49 pmAfterthought – the empirical evidence you requested: http://www.electionprojection.com/ archives120105.html#badnewsbackfires122905 AND calling your ideological opponents liars is hateful and not a good way to win at the polls. You should listen to me – I understand politics and don’t hate you because you are progressive.
Comment by Andrea Messner
Ms. Messner,
Your “empirical†evidence is a blog reference to a poll about peoples feelings about each of the political parties? Are you serious or are you just snarking?
Comment by Optimist — December 29, 2005 @ 6:39 pm
Dude,
That blog is a riot. read some of the comments there… on an empty stomach…
December 29th, 2005 at 6:51 pmYeah, I’m looking at the link. First of all, the fact that the second sentence starts with “The liberal press…” pretty much tells one that there’s at least some bias going on on that site, and it’s not a liberal bias. Second, that part about “Making too much of too many negatives aimed at only one party belies a bias in the media and a lack of substantive solutions in the other party” is just plain silly. Of course, when you have the entire government controlled by republicans, most of the stories, good or bad, are going to be about that one party! Duh! Plus, I think that the word “belies” is being used incorrectly here.
All in all, not very impressive or convincing. And it’s not that I don’t believe that those polled dislike both Republicans and Democrats – I would have to say that, currently, most Americans distrust ANY polititian, regardless of party. But Zookeeper and Optimist are right, your reference is not a particularly good one.
I’m packing it in, too, Happy New Year everyone!
December 29th, 2005 at 6:52 pmAfterthought – the empirical evidence you requested: http://www.electionprojection.com/ archives120105.html#badnewsbackfires122905 AND calling your ideological opponents liars is hateful and not a good way to win at the polls. You should listen to me – I understand politics and don’t hate you because you are progressive.
Comment by Andrea Messner
Messnerschmidtt at 12 O’clock High!
December 29th, 2005 at 6:52 pmHappy New Years to the Schneiders as well!
December 29th, 2005 at 6:55 pmAmericans overwhelmingly favor wiretapping suspected terrorists without warrants. Considering Congress was briefed and other Presidents did it, Democrats are treading on very thin ice this winter. Challenging the President on his strong suit will bring more defeat at the polls for progressives.
The problem for the left is you have no positive agenda. Slash and burn has been the Democrats’ post-Gore strategy – a very poor one. You are all so filled with hate and invective it causes you to make poor political decisions. Try focusing on something positive if you have any hopes of defeating the majority party next fall.
-Andrea Messner
Comment by Andrea Messner
Unfortunately, thanks to the Bush tax cuts that have wrecked the economy, there is no help for these poor delusional, internet bag ladies that troll the cyber highways and byways with their broadband shoping carts filled with non-functioning TVs, old and worn out GOP talking points and badly damaged tin foil antennas in their totally whacked out minds.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:58 pmOptimist, Optimist, Optimist….I want you to go back and read your not-so-creative drivel in #73 and tell me WHY anyone would give such pulp ANY credence due to the intellectual bankruptcy you exhibit.
And as for your swipe at “Intelligent Design” – I told one of my kids who thought she was an agnostic, “People think they are brilliant for DISCOVERING DNA – I think Whoever thought up the 6′ long double helix with billions of packets of unique information – (she then reminded me of the identical twin scenario) – now THAT’s incomparable brilliance.” In case you’re confused – I believe in gravity, too – even though I can’t see it.
December 29th, 2005 at 7:03 pmOptimist,
Thanks! We’ll each enjoy our own New Year since you wished us several. :)
I won’t be back until Tuesday, so Happy New Year to all who follow that calendar.
One last thing before I post and run about competition(sorry, but I have to leave if I want to catch Countdown).
I do not believe that it always brings out the best in people. In fact, it’s often pointless and unnecesary to have competition for some things. (Government contracts, on the other hand, should ALWAYS be competitively bid.) But competition can also bring out the worst in people, particularly in people who were taught that cooperation is for losers and that winning is the most important thing (or, even worse, the only thing). There is such a thing as a bad winner.
Human beings (that’s most of us here) are social animals who must cooperate to survive. In fact, without cooperation there would be no society at all. Can you imagine having to do your own water purification tests to make sure you can give your kids a glass of water? Can you imagine trying to get to your placec of business without paved roads of any kind? Can you imagine a world with no police or fire departments? We must cooperate if we are to survive, there’s no two ways about that.
Don’t anyone misunderstand me, competition has its role (mainly in entertainment), but let’s not delude ourselves into thinking that it is superior to cooperation as a social structure. It’s not always the strongest who are best fit to lead. Sometimes the physically weakest among us have the best ideas (Dr. Stephen Hawking comes to mind.) But those of us who tend to be weaker do need the strongest among us for protection against those with fewer morals. We just don’t have to let them be in charge.
December 29th, 2005 at 7:11 pmGravity has to be seen to know it exists?
December 29th, 2005 at 7:14 pmI will have to tell Newton!
He might be surprised.
Maybe you should steer clear of science.
It doesn’t seem to be your strong suit.
#
Aphro,
I see that you have no argument to put foward so you adopt, or were trained with, the same tactic as Implant, which is to make baseless personal attacks as a means of disguising your own ignorance.
Yet more proof against “intelligent designâ€. God said that the greatest gift he would grant unto humanity was “free willâ€. With that acknowledged, and knowing the monumentally superior intelligence that God possesses, it would be an astronomically proportioned design flaw that allows for people to stick their heads as far up their own asses as both Aphro and Implant have obviously acheived.
Comment by Optimist — December 29, 2005 @ 6:23 pm
That was beautiful. As you can see, although she gets the number wrong, it stung badly, like a wet towel snap!
#
Optimist, Optimist, Optimist….I want you to go back and read your not-so-creative drivel in #73 and tell me WHY anyone would give such pulp ANY credence due to the intellectual bankruptcy you exhibit.
And as for your swipe at “Intelligent Design†– I told one of my kids who thought she was an agnostic, “People think they are brilliant for DISCOVERING DNA – I think Whoever thought up the 6′ long double helix with billions of packets of unique information – (she then reminded me of the identical twin scenario) – now THAT’s incomparable brilliance.†In case you’re confused – I believe in gravity, too – even though I can’t see it.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — December 29, 2005 @ 7:03 pm
December 29th, 2005 at 7:15 pmBushy makes history Again! He has successfully bankrupted America.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. Treasury Secretary
John Snow warned lawmakers on Thursday that a legally set limit on the government’s ability to borrow will be hit in mid-February and urged Congress to raise it quickly.
Failure to do so potentially risks throwing the country into its first default in history, Snow warned in what has become virtually an annual rite as U.S. borrowing needs spiral.
“The administration now projects that the statutory debt limit, currently $8.184 trillion, will be reached in mid-February 2006,” Snow said in a letter to 21 members of the U.S. House of Representatives and Senate released by Treasury after financial markets had closed.
Snow said that Treasury, if the debt limit was not raised by then, would have to take “extraordinary actions” to keep paying its bills for everything from
Social Security to national defense spending.
Sorry Bushy, no Bankruptcy protection for you.
Impeach this bastard now!
December 29th, 2005 at 7:18 pmWe’ve only gotten a glimpse of this snooping. The need for speed is no excuse to bypass FISA because the govt may begin surveillance and then ask the FISA court for approval. Only once since 1979 has a case gone to secret FISA appeals court. FISA judges try to please the executive branch. Second, we have no basis for assuming that these security intercepts are focused on one or a few individuals or that they are brief in duration. Knowing how the NSA operates in Europe where they scoop up thousands of channels of information, I imagine that they take all cell phone calls, emails, etc. from a given region and electronically sort through them looking for specific names and code words. That is a clumsy operation and one that the government might not want to expose to even a friendly and secret judge.
December 29th, 2005 at 7:20 pmSecond big problem is the alleged opposition party. We know now that at least Sen Rockefeller and Rep Pelosi were briefed about this. Both kept quiet; Rockefeller sent a secret weaseling letter to the Vice President, not disapproving of this dangerous activity or asking that it be stopped, but “I really can’t evaluate itâ€. We have become a one party country – Sens Baah, Bidden, Clinton and Kerry do not differ from a calm Republican like Olympia Snowe, other than being less honest.
This is very dangerous. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I am more afraid of the President and The Department of Homeland Security than of Islamic terrorists, because
1. the former are much more powerful and numerous
2. they recognize no limits to Presidential power (the rule of law means that everyone is limited in their freedom to act, including the President)
3. They are incompetent bunglers- look at the Iraq Provisional Authority, FEMA and their other performances.
4. They have intimidated the press and the Democratic Party
5. The “war on terror†will go on for decades – it’s not going to end when we pull ground troops out of Iraq. We’ll soon have a “second war on terror in Latin America†if Rice & Rumsfeld have their way.
Please post the Reuters article Thinkprogress.
A bankrupt America is a very important issue.
December 29th, 2005 at 7:20 pmScrewed up site.
December 29th, 2005 at 7:55 pmMarie, “And I might add, the perpetrators of the first WTC attack have been tried and jailed.â€
Untrue, Abdul Rahman Yasin fled to, you guessed it – Iraq, even though liberals keep telling us Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism. I guess Yasin didn’t get that memo. Or liberals are liars and/or idiots, take your pick.
December 29th, 2005 at 7:56 pmDid anyone else hear that annoying little buzz? And what’s that smell? Did someone fart?
Ah, forget it.
Happy New Year all!
December 29th, 2005 at 8:02 pmDebtonator, you are spoutin pure ignorance. The debt limit has been raised many times in the past. Adjusting the debt limit is no basis for impeachment at alol.
There is no basis for impeachment of President Bush.
December 29th, 2005 at 8:04 pmLooks like the intolerant totalitarians of Thinkdefeat deleted my prior posts, which contained no adhominem or anything. Liberals simply cannot tolerate any dissent.
December 29th, 2005 at 8:06 pm“In 1994, Bill Clinton’s deputy attorney general, Jamie Gorelick, testified to Congress, “The Department of Justice believes, and the case law supports, that the president has inherent authority to conduct warrantless physical searches for foreign intelligence purposes.”
December 29th, 2005 at 8:09 pm**** I think that about sums it up – from an “unimpeachable” Dem source.
Wow, you are like one week late with that
December 29th, 2005 at 8:26 pmtalking point.
Please try to keep up.
Link HERE on TP from 12/20:
Gorelick link
December 29th, 2005 at 8:35 pmI apologize, afterthought – your lack of social skills obviously made you EXTREMELY available to play here last week. Nevertheless, you couldn’t refute the salient point.
December 29th, 2005 at 8:36 pmThe “What the World Needs Now Show” is where you can hear Sue’s outrage on Bushy’s success of Bankrupting America.
Clinton handed Bushy a surplus and now Bushy has destroyed in America in 5 short years.
Check the broadcast schedule for times and dates.
December 29th, 2005 at 8:39 pmSounds like you give up.
December 29th, 2005 at 8:41 pmThat’s cool, it was a totally
bogus spin point on your part.
Get your spin before it is moldy next time. ;^)
Afterthought – (Allow me to compliment your mother on such a ‘thought’ful name.) I thought I would “digest” the Gorelick comments without the TP spin of the wannabee politicos. I guess you give up because you consistently FAIL to address the point made by Gorelick. Relying on Judd, Faiz, Amanda et al doesn’t count. (That might be a intellectual or ideological stretch – give it your BEST try!!!)
December 29th, 2005 at 8:55 pmThere have been several well composed articles
December 29th, 2005 at 9:00 pmwhich cover the Gorelick issue very well all
over the net.
The TP version was a short summary.
This was all covered last week.
I am sorry you are too slow to keep
up.
Maybe you should just try to “see” gravity
instead.
No one cares about your crappy online show, Debtonator.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:11 pmafterthought,
So TP lied about Gorelick on the 20th. What’s your point?
December 29th, 2005 at 9:13 pmNo one cares about your crappy online show, Debtonator.
Tell it to my 703,154 listeners who have bookmarked my show.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:25 pmNo one believes this bunk: “Tell it to my 703,154 listeners who have bookmarked my show.”
December 29th, 2005 at 9:26 pmNot to mention my listeners on terrestrial radio in Chicago, Milwaukee and Kansas City. Not to mention my listeners in Austria, Norway, Canada and all my other INTERNATIONAL listeners.
What is it YOU do again? LOL!
December 29th, 2005 at 9:28 pmNo one believes Debtonator.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:31 pmWho are you again? LOL!
Go back to your cheeto’s and reruns of MASH little fella. You’re OBVIOUSLY not qualified to clean my jock.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:33 pmThe Capras sure do have radio friendly looks though!
December 29th, 2005 at 9:33 pmROFLMAO!!!!
December 29th, 2005 at 9:34 pmYou cannot keep spending at record levels, have a burgeoning trade deficit, keep increasing your national debt at record levels, keep outsourcing jobs and say it’s good for the economy, continue to have a larger percentage of the total population out of work each year, produce fewer and fewer percentages of jobs in the country, subsidize two losing wars at the rate of over $5 billion dollars per month, and not eventually go broke.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:40 pmPeople cannot keep spending at record levels, have a burgeoning trade deficit, keep increasing your national debt at record levels, keep outsourcing jobs and say it’s good for the economy, continue to have a larger percentage of the total population out of work each year, produce fewer and fewer percentages of jobs in the country, subsidize two losing wars at the rate of over $5 billion dollars per month, and not eventually go broke.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:40 pmDuplicate post for the mentally challanged.
WHO?
Oh never mind.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:41 pmIt is the Republicans who want to cut federal spending. The Democrats want to spend even more.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:43 pmBack up your idiotic comments by FACT’S. You know, those things the republicans know NOTHING of.
What ARE your sources? MAD magazine or The Weekly World News?
December 29th, 2005 at 9:45 pm#105
“I thought I would “digest†the Gorelick comments without the TP spin of the wannabee politicos.”
Now, now flighty Aphrodite, when you pulled you’re little self-serving quote from Michael Barone’s spin-filled commentary (so much for “digesting” Gorelick’s comments without any spin), you like Michael, failed to make the distinction between the inability (in 1994), to conductphysical searches compared to the existent authorization forelectronic surveillance. This issue is what was at the center of Gorelick’s testimony in 1994. Gorelick supported amending FISA to support warrants for physical searches (i.e. providing judicial oversight), not unfettered presidential power to ignore FISA. FISA was amended in 1995 to provide for such searches., The Clinton administration never claimed to have authority to bypass FISA- unlike the Bush administration. Also, this all relates to foreign intelligence, not domestic spying.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:51 pmDear thedebtonator,
Congratulations!
At 06:29:20 PM on Thursday, December 29, 2005 a listener added your
station as a
Preset.
Gee thanks! That makes 703,155
We appreciate ALL our listeners!
December 29th, 2005 at 9:52 pmAt this time, there is no plan to shore up the dollar. There is no plan to create more good paying jobs in America. There is no plan to stop outsourcing of jobs. There is no plan to finally bring our troops home from Iraq; all that Rice and Bush have said is, “We’ll train more Iraqis to take over the fighting and security.†When pressed as to when American troops could be brought home, neither had a good and firm answer. They also never understood, or explained, that no Iraqi really wants to fight for America and most those we train will eventually turn their guns on our troops. Finally, the cuts in medical care and education that Bush envisions will harm the future of our country; his short term cuts in social programs will also lead to more crime and less support for police, firemen and others concerned education and the welfare of our nation.
Bankruptcy for the nation is just around the corner. But, before that comes, there will be increases in interest rates, probably new taxes and more cuts in federal and state programs because of all the money going to war and wars alarms.
Yes, Bush is bankrupting America; make no mistake about it.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:57 pmThe Debtonator , i too just added you to my favorites.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:57 pmstay hard on the ripoffs and scammers. you doing a heckuvajob.
The Debtonator , Think progress just posted your subject. this is right on time, just as Aramoff is about to go down.
U.S. reaching its credit limit. Treasury Secretary John Snow warns that the federal government will exceed the statutory debt limit of $8.18 trillion by Feburary, asks Congress to authorize more borrowing. 9:55 pm | Comment (0)
Filed under:
Posted by Admin at 9:55 pm
Permalink | Comment (0)
December 29th, 2005 at 9:59 pmThank you.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:59 pm“I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts.”
December 29th, 2005 at 10:07 pm– Abraham Lincoln
#127.
December 29th, 2005 at 10:09 pmno comment.
“Approximately 64 percent of the $8.6 trillion deterioration in the budget outlook is due to policy decisions over the last four years to cut taxes repeatedly while paying huge bills for the war in Iraq and spending large sums in other areas, such as homeland security and international affairs. For 2004, the tax cuts are responsible for 60 percent of the fiscal deterioration caused by policy decisions.”
December 29th, 2005 at 10:10 pm– A Report by the Democratic Staff of the House Budget Committee, September 13, 2004
At first, “the myth†was that FISA played no role in the failure to examine Moussaoui’s laptop computer. But now that the quotes from the Joint Inquiry show that it was a central consideration, the new “myth†is apparently that FISA was misunderstood by “a poorly trained agent.” If properly read, FISA was no problem at all.
Yet, the screw-up was not, as the earlier posting suggested, “simply a case of a poorly trained agent.†According to the congressional joint inquiry, the “poorly trained agent” was supported in his position by “several FBI attorneys with whom†he consulted.
Second, as for the Deputy General Counsel’s remarks, they are more smoke than fire. Yes, one can get a warrant for someone who is an agent of any international terrorist group, except that, in this case, the Chechen rebels to which Moussaoui was linked were not on the State Department list of recognized foreign terrorist groups. And, indeed, as the 9/11 Commission notes: after French intelligence provided information suggesting a connection between Moussaoui and the Chechen rebels, “this set off a spirited debate between the Minneapolis Field Office, FBI headquarters, and the CIA as to whether the Chechen rebels and Khattab [a rebel leader] were sufficiently associated with a terrorist organization to constitute a ‘foreign power’ for purposes of the FISA statute. FBI headquarters did not believe this was good enough, and its National Security Law Unit declined to submit a FISA application.†And the fact that, according to the DGC, no one in the national security unit said the Chechens “were not a power that…could qualify as a foreign power under the FISA statute†is the kind of double-negative that can only be characterized as post 9/11 CYA since the issue being debated was whether one could make a positive case for considering the rebels a terrorist group.
As for the claim of the FBI attorneys that, had they been aware of the Phoenix field office’s concerns about al-Qaeda flight training in the US, they would have sent a FISA request forward to Justice, it may well be true. Nevertheless, this does not mean that they would have gotten Justice to move forward on their request or that a FISA judge would have approved it. Just like FBI headquarters before them, the lawyers at Justice would have asked: What evidence do we have that Moussaoui is connected to a recognized terrorist organization and, in particular, al Qaeda? And the answer would have been virtually nothing. All the government would have had was the suspicious coincidence of pilot training and suspicions about Moussaoui’s own radical – 1st Amendment protected – Islamic beliefs. Neither would likely have been sufficient for a FISA judge to conclude he had “probable cause to believe†that Moussaoui was an agent of a terrorist group. It was not until September 13 that a possible link of Moussaoui to al Qaeda surfaced from British intelligence.
Now, we can all pretend that FISA can be read more liberally but the record shows that it hasn’t been. For example, when one looks at the congressional investigation of Wen Ho Lee, senators from both the left and the right made a complaint similar to the one we are hearing today. After setting out in their report on the investigation the lengthy list of highly suspicious behavior on the part of Lee – behavior which was potentially far more problematic than what the Bureau had on Moussaoui – they argued that a FISA warrant should have been granted. But no FISA warrant was granted because, at the end of the day, there was nothing the Bureau could show of a concrete nature that would have moved a judge to conclude that he had a “plausible cause to believe†that Lee was an agent of a foreign power.
Given the abuses that took place in the past, it is not surprising that people want to hold onto FISA. Yet to continue to pretend that FISA, when read as it was intended to be read, doesn’t create a hurdle that makes terrorist investigations more difficult than common sense would suggest is necessary is itself a myth.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:40 pmThey IGNORED the PDB!! “Bin Laden Determined to Strike the U.S.”
December 30th, 2005 at 12:04 amWiretaps, schmiretaps! They had all the evidence they needed before 9/11.
And by “evidence”, I mean “all the plans in place so as to get what”.
The PDB contained no specifics, db. Repeating the same nutty conspiracy theories will never make them true.
December 30th, 2005 at 12:07 am“Repeating the same nutty conspiracy theories will never make them true.”
wallace: So, the PDB didn’t say “Bin Laden Determined to Stike the U.S.” — why are you calling this a conspiracy? Or are speaking of something else? Have you forgotten that Bush did nothing to address the warnings of terrorist threats in his first 100+ days in office? He was handed information from the Clinton administration, and he couldn’t be bothered with it. He told his staff that he didn’t want to hear about this terrorist stuff. Your memory is short and selective, wallace. Do I blame Bush for 9-11, well, not exactly. But perhaps 9-11 it could have been overted if president frat boy had been doing his job.
December 30th, 2005 at 12:54 amVaughn, “Bin Laden Determined to Stike the U.S.” was known for many years before Bush was president, moron. There’s no specificity at all in that statement. There were six major terrorist attacks on Clinton’s watch, and he did nothing.
December 30th, 2005 at 1:10 amI have built it. Will you come? http://www.boycott-republicans.com
December 30th, 2005 at 5:22 am“Vaughn, “Bin Laden Determined to Stike the U.S.†was known for many years before Bush was president, moron.”
I believe, moron, that you said “conspiracy”. What was the conspiracy? Why was it in the PDB if it was not a matter that the president should be addressing? Who put the information in there? You sound so sure that this intell was old news. What proof you have for that? You sound so sure of yourself, are you in the CIA, or are you just a jerk?
December 30th, 2005 at 8:33 amWallace, the point of the whole thing is, moron, that if a PDB crosses your desk and a terrorist threat is one of the topics, perhaps you should do something else besides plan your next vacation. Perhaps, Bush could have put down the chainsaw for a second and said, “why is this information in here, maybe we should keep our ears and eyes open, maybe we should put the public transportation people on alert, maybe we should show a little intellectual curiosity”. Oh, but I’ve forgotten, Bush doesn’t read.
December 30th, 2005 at 8:39 amI thought that the PDB was dated August 6th, 2001? That’s not “many years before Bush was president”? (I’ll skip the “moron” part.)
December 30th, 2005 at 9:30 amI think it rather funny how wallace resorts to name calling and everyone just “considers the source” but when he is called names he cries like a little girl.
Fits the profile of a typical bush supporter.
I would love to challange him, or ANY other bushy supporter for that matter, to a debate on one of the shows on my internet radio station. We could do it live. But I doubt THAT will EVER happen because he’s scared. He FEARS the truth. He’s a coward. ANOTHER part of thier profile.
So wallace, take both hands and reach down to where you balls used to be. IF you feel ANY remnants, give me a call. We could get this going immediately and you could let people HEAR how stupid you really are.
We could all start a pool to see how long it takes before I get him to cry. My moneys on under 2 minutes.
December 30th, 2005 at 9:58 amGiven the abuses that took place in the past, it is not surprising that people want to hold onto FISA. Yet to continue to pretend that FISA, when read as it was intended to be read, doesn’t create a hurdle that makes terrorist investigations more difficult than common sense would suggest is necessary is itself a myth.
Comment by Gary Schmitt
Gary, the “myth” is that you think anyone gives a ScHmItT. We just want to be rid of “you people” and we will be, whatever it takes. We can deal with terrorists. The Israelis and many other countries have had it much worse than we have and they have survived. No nation can survive morons like you.
December 30th, 2005 at 10:43 amVaughn, “Wallace, the point of the whole thing is, moron, that if a PDB crosses your desk and a terrorist threat is one of the topics, perhaps you should do something else besides plan your next vacation.”
Yes, Clinton should have done something, since he failed to do so for eight years.
December 30th, 2005 at 10:52 amJane, “I thought that the PDB was dated August 6th, 2001? That’s not “many years before Bush was presidentâ€? (I’ll skip the “moron†part.)”
Right, because the same information could not possibly have ben in a different, earlier document. ROFL What an idiotic comment.
December 30th, 2005 at 10:58 amWhats the matter wallace, scared to accept my invite for an on air debate? I knew you were and are a pussy.
December 30th, 2005 at 11:16 amGOP Senator Spector agreed that the Bush administration did have authority under FISA to investigate Moussaoui including his computer files. The Senate investigated and determined that DOJ and FBI screwed up by not getting a FISA warrant.
Everyone knows that Freeh was the worst director of the FBI ever.
December 30th, 2005 at 12:43 pmTHIS JUST IN – to the delight, I’m sure, of so many anti-Semitic anti-Zionists: with the pull out of Israel from the Gaza Strip, Al Qaeda is poised to set up shop.
December 30th, 2005 at 1:00 pmhttp://www.wcbs880.com/mideast/mideast_story_258100501.html
tiny hermaphrodite, you mean Al Queda is leaving Crawford, TX or will that be like a franchise location?
December 30th, 2005 at 1:07 pmDear Plugger – If prejudiced people from the conservative side of the political spectrum made similar comments about Blacks, Asians, Puerto Ricans, Hispanics, Eskimos, Arabs, etc., leftists would be in a uproar. But I guess if your aim is to end world Jewry, (and it’s “strangle hold” on all you hold – forget sacred – important) Al Qaeda might be a convenient ally.
There was a time in recent American politics when the Dem party could count on 90% of the Catholic vote and 97% of the Jewish vote. The erosion of support from these two groups has been significant. But the good news for progs: atheists support progs overwhelmingly! Is it any wonder that many concerned Jews are reassessing their involvement with the bankrupt and hideaous policies of progressives?
December 30th, 2005 at 1:45 pmGeorge W. Bush as the New Richard M. Nixon
John W. Dean writes a compelling article regarding the similarities between Richard M. Nixon and George W. Bush and their activity of illegal wiretaps.
December 30th, 2005 at 1:56 pmThere can be no serious question that warrantless wiretapping, in violation of the law, is impeach…
FACT: ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, UPN, The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Daily News, Time Magazine, Newsweek, People Magazine, US News and World Report and countless other media and Hollywood companies all have either a Zionist CEO, a Zionist News Chief, or are owned by a media conglomerate which has a Zionist CEO.
Comment by plunger
You are substituting the word Zionist for Left Wing Ratbastardcommiejooo. You will find no evidence that the Semitic men and women in question support the State of Israel. You will find plenty of evidence in the content of their publications and media outlets to prove just the opposite.
The fact is and don’t bother to deny it, you just don’t like Joooooos. Period. You must be one of those new-Nazi punks from Stormfront.
December 30th, 2005 at 2:23 pmThe whole Fox propaganda network should be prosecuted for lies and treason. Watching Kasich on his show repeating the right wing Bushite lies about how the Supreme and FISA Courts ruled that the president has powers to wiretap without warrants (in times of war) and the opposition guest (I’ve forgotten his name) just dropped his head in exasperation while the right wing “presidential historian” Brinkley amened Kasich’s lies, it made me want to jump through the tube.
The Bushites are so desperate they’re simply misleading their base. The inbreds are so stupid that they hang on the Fox Bushites’ every word, then regurgitate the lies on C-Span or forums like this. It has come to the point where Progressive American patriots should realize that the Bushites represent the “domestic enemies” that the Constitution mentions. These traitors need to be dealt with.
December 30th, 2005 at 2:47 pmThe fact is that the slow system was the cause for 9/11, and that slow system has been improved by President Bush.
4 Years and 3 Months and ZERO terrorist attacks on US land.
You can’t argue with good results.
Comment by Gary Ruppert
Gary Pookbutt,
Some kids stop eating dirt at an early age, some kids never grow up.
Stop eating dirt, you swine.
December 30th, 2005 at 2:53 pmThere was a time in recent American politics when the Dem party could count on 90% of the Catholic vote and 97% of the Jewish vote. The erosion of support from these two groups has been significant. But the good news for progs: atheists support progs overwhelmingly! Is it any wonder that many concerned Jews are reassessing their involvement with the bankrupt and hideaous policies of progressives?
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Puny Hermaphrodite,
When the inbred Catholic and Jewish Bushite traitors realize that their living standards- and the futures of their children and grandchildren- have been leveraged to the Red Chinese (all because they voted republiscum) they’ll be back.
December 30th, 2005 at 2:57 pmPlugger – you mean the links that are all too often someone else’s OPINION or spin of the “facts”?? (i.e Al Jazzeera, TP, Daily Kos, etc?) “Joyful” Israelis could have been “wailing” Israelis – but you would never be bothered with enough intellectual originality to give such a premise a second thought!!
December 30th, 2005 at 3:17 pmWow – never thought I’d see the day, but I’m on I-RIGHT-I’s side for once. (I feel dirty)
Plunger – you’re coming off a little ‘tinfoil hat-like’ if you know what I mean. And a little conspiracy-theorist/racist as well…
It’s fine if you hold the viewpoint that Jews hold an undue amount of influence, and you even have the right to be angry about that, but to try and post all of these ‘facts’ that suggest that Jews are to blame for a lot of this mess probably won’t hold a lot of water with most people on this board (being that most of the posters I’ve read here seem to be rational, thoughtful and tolerant folks).
Of couse, the fact that my wife is Jewish may cause me to take more offense at your comments than an average Joe off the street. It sounds to me like you have a bone to pick with the Jews – go do it somewhere else.
December 30th, 2005 at 3:18 pmPlunger … gotta admire your tenacity.
Look … I’m absolutely postive that the Mossad has covert agents inside the CIA/NSA (as we do inside the Mossad). Espionage is not only done to one’s enemies (as we don’t share every morsel of intel even amongst allies). That said, it’s a huge leap from “the Mossad has moles in the CIA/NSA” to “the Mossad perpetrated 9/11 to influence US policy”.
Israel already has the USA’s “ear” … we’re on their side. They don’t need to take the risk of a 9/11 to influence us (imagine what would happen if we “found out”). I’ve read most of your posts and it seems to me that you’re drawing larger conclusions from possibly unrelated events (or downright heresay/unverifable events)
There seems to be far too many downsides in this scenario for them to engage in this manner … your theory sounds more like an “Alias” episode than reality (but I could be wrong).
December 30th, 2005 at 3:57 pmGee, Plugger – “Funny how it’s not racist to accuse Muslims and Arabs of being the driving force behind 9/11,…” – I don’t know – maybe the fact that ALL of the latest incidents of terrorism were at the hands of radical Islamists??? I HAVE been wondering what planet you’re on.
December 30th, 2005 at 3:57 pmeveryone seems to be afraid to say it,so here goes;9/11 was probably engineered and not just a random terrorist attack.to much evidence to deny.who engineered it i couldnt say,but one thing is certain,the whole thing stinks to high heaven.ok go ahead and blungeon me to death neocon asswipes.i know you guys know everything there is to know[yeah right].
December 30th, 2005 at 4:46 pmBig papa should be prosecuted for treason.
December 30th, 2005 at 4:57 pmMatthew – You seem to lack any real conviction- are you referred to by the negative adjective “wishy-washy” often??
December 30th, 2005 at 5:32 pmMMMMMMmmmmmm…. you see some “engineering” going on with the planning of 9/11 ????!!?? BRILLIANT!!!!!! I think if you continue on the path of enlightenment you just MIGHT find that bin Laden WAS ….who knew??…..AN ENGINEER!!!! (And a structural engineer AT THAT!!!!)
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December 30th, 2005 at 5:55 pmCan someone point me to an updated list of republicans and staff recently convicted or currently under inditement?
Thanks
December 30th, 2005 at 5:56 pmCliff
Cliff: http://www.noagenda.org
December 30th, 2005 at 6:27 pmDecember 23, 2005
Europe-wide arrest warrants issued for CIA agents suspected of kidnapping and complicity in torture
From Reuters
MILAN (Reuters) – A Milan court has issued a European arrest warrant for 22 CIA agents suspected of kidnapping an Egyptian cleric from Italy’s financial capital in 2003, Prosecutor Armando Spataro said on Friday.
Milan magistrates suspect a CIA team grabbed Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr off a Milan street and flew him for interrogation to Egypt, where he said he was tortured.
Prosecutors asked the Italian Justice Ministry last month to seek the extradition of the suspects from the United States, but Justice Minister Roberto Castelli has not yet decided whether to act on the request.
A European Union warrant is automatically valid across the 25-nation bloc and does not require approval of any government.
The warrant was agreed by the European Union in the wake of the Sept 11 attacks on the United States in 2001 and was hailed as a key part of the bloc’s fight against terrorism.
Spataro told Reuters he had also asked Interpol to try to detain the suspects anywhere in the world.
Earlier this week, Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said he did not believe CIA agents had kidnapped Nasr, but added that governments were not going to defeat terrorism by playing by the rules.
Justice officials believe Nasr, also known as Abu Omar, is still in custody in Egypt. Italian investigators have accused him of ties to al Qaeda and recruiting combatants for Iraq, and a Milan judge has issued a warrant for his arrest.
There has been a series of investigations into whether U.S. intelligence officials used Europe as a hub to illegally transfer militant suspects to third countries for interrogation.
The U.S. embassy in Rome was not immediately available for comment.
December 30th, 2005 at 6:36 pm#
Vaughn, “Bin Laden Determined to Stike the U.S.†was known for many years before Bush was president, moron. There’s no specificity at all in that statement. There were six major terrorist attacks on Clinton’s watch, and he did nothing.
Comment by wallace — December 30, 2005 @ 1:10 am
Yeah, you’d like to ignore the fact that Clinton launched cruise missles into the Sudan and Afghanistan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Infinite_Reach
And the fact that the Cole bombing occurred in October of 2000, a few months before he left office. One year after the 1993 WTC Bombing, they convicted six conspirator and the cruise missles sent to kill Osama were in response to that attack.
Could he have attacked Afgahanistan? Sure, if the Republican Congress would have allowed him; which they wouldn’t have, because they were too consumed with frying him for a BJ. Too bad he didn’t think of the idea of entirely throwing the Constitution out the window in order to create a virtual dictatorship.
Wallace- you’re a walking, talking Wet Bag of Mayonnaise.
December 30th, 2005 at 8:59 pmTo HL – Hilarious piece on your site! Something like Colonel Klink Meets Dr. Strangelove. Thanks for steering us there for one brief airy moment of levity in an otherwise oppressively dank and fetid news month (for us true patriots, anyway).
To Cliff – Haven’t yet found a consolidated list of indictees, but my research indicates the list is as follows:
- Jack Abramoff (Fraud, etc.)
- Tom Noe (Illegal campaign contributions)
- Randall “Duke” Cunningham (pleaded guilty to accepting bribes to the tune of $2.4M)
- Brent Wilkes (not actually “indicted” yet, but, you know, equally scuzzy unnamed co-conspirator of the Duke… Cunningham, that is)
- Ohio Gov. Bob Taft – 4 counts of criminal misdemeanor for non-reporting of gifts
- “Scooter” Libby (saying his name always makes me want to ask “What about Lumpy Rutherford?”) – for obstruction of justice, perjury, and just plain acting stupid when confronted with the truth (I added that last indictment)
- (And oh yeah…)Tom Delay, aka the True Antichrist – for crimes against the humanity of the (formerly meaningfully representative) Congressional districts of Austin, TX.
A sidebar question: Why isn’t anyone insisting that the results of the last Congressional election be ruled void, because it was Delay’s ill-gotten booty, passed to his loyal minions in the Texas House that changed the boundary lines is as blatant a case of illegal gerrymandering as this country has seen since the days of old Elbridge Gerry hisself (ca. 1812, Boston).
By the way, with the Justice Dept (with canine teeth bared and dripping, sensing a blood trail) now going after the individuals who may have “leaked” the news about the Bush administration’s illegal use of NSA wiretaps THREE YEARS AGO (caps added for emphasis, ‘cuz the Bushies knew about it way back then but really didn’t want to pursue it ‘cuz it would have forced them to acknowledge that they HAD INDEED BROKEN THE LAW WAY BACK THEN), a run-on question for you legal eagles in the audience:
Are any or all of these people shielded from vindictive administration persecution under any Federal whistleblower protection laws?
I’ll take my answers off the air. Thank you.
December 30th, 2005 at 9:11 pmCan someone point me to an updated list of republicans and staff recently convicted or currently under inditement?
Thanks
Cliff
Comment by Cliff Lyon
Just wait till next week, and next year, the list is just starting. Suffice it to say that 6 or more are already under indictment, a few more have plead guilty, Cunningham for one, and at least one convicted in the phone bank vote tampering scandal, but over 60 are under investigation. It’s going to be an exciting new year.
December 30th, 2005 at 9:15 pmIt’s Bush versus all the Whistleblowers! Republicans gone wild.
The President’s massive secret spying program is wrong and illegal, and blatantly so. Why else would not just one, but according to the New York Times about a dozen current and former officials blow the whistle on the President “because of their concerns about the operation’s legality and oversight”?
Is it any surprise or coincidence that the White House got another bogus CYA memo from their go-to inexperienced lap dog lawyer, John Yoo? The same John Yoo who was disgraced for writing the now totally discredited memo justifying torture.
And just add to that the hypocrisy of the Administration in sicking the Justice Department in a witch hunt on all their enemy whistleblowers they want to out. Contrast that with their sudden “no comment†clam up position in protecting the Plame leakers once that investigation started to point to the President and his favorite confidants in the White House.
Look at history. Look at Nixon. Would it have been right to let the Justice Department witch hunt the lone Deepthroat who outed Nixon’s secret spying? Of course not, then as now, it’s the President and other perpetrators in the White House who are the problem. In this case the illegality and immorality are so blatant that not one, but twelve Deepthroats stood up. And all of them knowing that doing the right thing puts their careers and reputation in jeopardy because of the Administration’s proven rabid, “payback†tactics against its enemies, including outing a CIA agent, torturing hundreds on vague suspicions of terrorism etc.
The situation is screaming for impeachment. The Republicans can only hold off impeachment proceedings until the mid-term elections in November, when America will wrest itself away from the Republican stranglehold on Congress and our Nation.
December 30th, 2005 at 9:18 pmGood List, Conn Yankee, but it’s not complete, it doesn’t include the guys that have secretly cut deals or that have and that fact has yet to have been made public. The guys like frist who have been subpoenaed by the SEC. The important number is that more than 60 are currently under investigation. SIXTY!
December 30th, 2005 at 9:19 pmJparker, launching a few missiles into a tent in the desert was worthless.
December 30th, 2005 at 9:24 pmGood point, Ha. Let’s be sure to leave plenty of space on the bottom of the list (to be continued on Page, what, 72 of 212?)
And lest we forget the mighty who have already fallen. I am speaking, of course, of my own ignominious former governor John “Can I Get a Character Witness” Rowland, now serving his vacation, er, sentence for at least several more months for having taken millions in gifts and responded in kind with favors to his corporate doms. Makes me wonder about other GOP governors, (like Bill Owens of Colorado), who have been such chummy lapdogs of the Bush administration. You know, all it takes is a little hubris, mixed with the right opportunity and that oh-so-sexy teflon feeling, for any “good” exec to go to the Dark Side. God knows, personal ethics are a nice bonus feature in pols these days, but hardly a requirement for the job, at least as long as the voting public is asleep at the switch and more interested in the cuurent state of Jessica Simpson’s marital bliss than in full frontal assaults against the Constitution.
God, how I abhor the smell of politicians who think they are better than us who elected them!
CY
December 30th, 2005 at 9:41 pmmightyAfroNoNothing
‘engineering’ is a broad field of specialities, much like law (another topic you are clueless of despite several reassurrances from you that you’re trained in it), so the bin laden engineering thing isn’t relevant. i guess you missed the part where the kid who hit the world trade center was a structural engineer who’s specialty was the construction of sky scrapers.
which brings me to another point. you always accuse everyone of being anti-semitic, and ‘bigoted’, every time someone points out the mossad ties to the pentagon (like the neocon who was caught passing classified documents to israel), or the ‘drive’ by israel to attack iraq and fabricate evidence to make this happen. so it’s really funny when you want to carte blanche to make islamic (also anti-semitic) and bigotted statements.
see i happen to know that not every jew is a traitor, or a mossad spy, just like i know not every muslim is a terrorist or traitor. you however want ‘profiling’ against muslims, and none against you (who’ve made frankly unamerican statements and suggestions from where i sit as an american).
so you really need to wake up, lighten up, and whatever demonic possession speaks through you needs to get out of your twisted soul. you are such a pathetic and horrific creature.
December 30th, 2005 at 11:12 pm“myth”??? how about a little truth in the media and call a spade a spade: ‘The Moussaoui LIE’.
December 30th, 2005 at 11:31 pm.
Please correct me if I am wrong but this issue is not clear in your report, namely that while the FBI agents in possession of Moussoui’s computer requested a FISA warrant, it was the Bush appointed head of the counter-terrorism unit, the guy who replaced John O’Neill, who sent the request back/stonewalled it. Can’t remember his name.
Remember, John O’Neill who was killed on 9/11 had just left the FBI after leading their successful investigations into terrorist financing (under Clinton). Also, US attorney Patrick Fitzgerald and the justice department had issued an indictment for bin Laden (under Clinton). Bush did not really have to see the memo to make bin Laden a priority. He had already been indicted for the embassy bombings. Throw in the lack of ANY Bush response to the Cole bombing, Richard Clarke, etc. and what you have is negligence on the part of Bush personally which led to the deaths of American citizens. Why people continue to support him I will never understand.
December 31st, 2005 at 5:54 amCheck out The best Political Comics of 2005 by The Hollywood Liberal
Happy New Year
December 31st, 2005 at 7:32 pmHL
Happy New Year….
December 31st, 2005 at 11:58 pmToo lefty for me …. cul
December 31st, 2005 at 11:59 pmDoes anyone remember the fellow who worked in Vice’s office, and he got popped for doing a little spying? They pick on innocent people, but can’t spot a real bad guy when he is right in front of them. What a collective waste of skin. Sheesh…
January 1st, 2006 at 6:56 amRyANNe – How clever of you to note the specialties in the engineering field – in your effort to argue with me about EVERYTHING, you fail to note the structural engineering reference I made to bin Laden. You seem like someone who detests those with whom you have a difference in political philosophy. It’s a true shame you don’t allow for other’s difference of opinion – you claim progressives are open minded and forward thinking but it should be noted that you are possessed with extremely rigid thinking – you poor dear….
January 2nd, 2006 at 12:58 pmIs the question there who’s looking into this or who the hell gives a shit if it was about tackling al Qaeda ?
Comment by Wooberstank — January 1, 2006 @ 2:00 pm
Yeah, by the way, how’s that going? It’s been 5 years now. Where’s bin Laden? And, for the record, how much BIGGER is Al Qaeda now? So much for making us safer… so, since that’s not working, hmmm… how about Peeping George seeing what Howard Dean is up to? Yeah, that’ll stop Al Qaeda. You’re a real genius.
January 2nd, 2006 at 1:02 pmRyANNe – How clever of you to note the specialties in the engineering field – in your effort to argue with me about EVERYTHING
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2006 @ 12:58 pm
In order for someone to argue with you about EVERYTHING, you’d first have to think you knew EVERYTHING… and then be wrong about it all. Yeah, that’s about right.
January 2nd, 2006 at 1:06 pmMy Dear unbeliever – How sweet of you to take up for your demure little friend, RyANNe. However, dear, your first sentence is so “unbelievably” stupid that I am convinced you need a “large word” translator to assist you in reading. Reading your sophomoric tripe, I have come to a sad conclusion – many progs are unteachable.
January 2nd, 2006 at 5:36 pmMy Dear unbeliever – How sweet of you to take up for your demure little friend, RyANNe. However, dear, your first sentence is so “unbelievably†stupid that I am convinced you need a “large word†translator to assist you in reading. Reading your sophomoric tripe, I have come to a sad conclusion – many progs are unteachable.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2006 @ 5:36 pm
Was dumbing it down for you – you Ann Coulter Wannabe (you do know that the only men who want sleep with her are chubby Napoleonic bedwetters and Bill O’Reilly – gag!)
You mean unbrainwashable. Happens when you start thinking for yourself. Somthing you’ll obviously never understand.
Why don’t you go play “Word Thesaurus” (you know, where you randomly replace words in a sentance with words you don’t understand to sound intelligent but actually pick the wrong ones and sound retarded?) with some of your neocon troll-mates now.
January 2nd, 2006 at 7:36 pmMighty Tyrant: That Falwell gnome is mounding the President’s buttress again!
Translation: That neocon troll is humping the President’s leg again!
January 2nd, 2006 at 7:44 pmDear UNBELIEVBLE – You have such a nasty dispoition today – could it be a NASTY hangover!!!! Your toilet mouth reminds me of your comrades, RyANNe and Susan, the erstwhile capitalist. Good night!!
January 2nd, 2006 at 8:39 pmP.SSSS. – Thinking for yourself??? You read the Dem Party notes fairly well, but I hate to break this to you – YOU’RE NOT VERY ORIGINAL.
January 2nd, 2006 at 8:42 pmDear UNBELIEVBLE – You have such a nasty dispoition today – could it be a NASTY hangover!!!! Your toilet mouth reminds me of your comrades, RyANNe and Susan, the erstwhile capitalist. Good night!!
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2006 @ 8:39 pm
Nasty? Now I know why you neocons don’t have any shows on Comedy Central… Wasn’t nasty – was humor, but as usual, you have no sense of one.
Besides, aren’t you the pot calling the kettle black? I’ve heard far worse from your potty mouth every time you open it. It’s like standing next to an open sewer with you around.
So, we see that you do not like getting a dose of your own medicine… hmmm…. will remember that. You know, since I can use my brain (and not as a foot rest or for men opening their beer bottles like you use yours).
P.SSSS. – Thinking for yourself??? You read the Dem Party notes fairly well, but I hate to break this to you – YOU’RE NOT VERY ORIGINAL.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 2, 2006 @ 8:42 pm
Wrong, yet again. I’m not a Democrat. And when you type in caps, you are SHOUTING… so who does that make the angry bitter one here, hmmm (hint – you).
Better than being incoherent, ignorant and ugly like you. And I hate to break it to you, you’re just jealous.
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:30 amUnbelievable – I gave you too much credit – perhaps you’re reading the Worker’s World talking points (or relying heavily on the philisophical works of Bertrand Russell, Brian Becker, Ramsey Clark…or my favourite…the late, Sam Marcy) – but it doesn’t change the fact – originality isn’t your strong suit. You may want to develope an argument minus the ad hominem (and need I say, superficial) attacks. Antics like these really diminish yourself.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:00 amUnbelievable – I gave you too much credit – perhaps you’re reading the Worker’s World talking points (or relying heavily on the philisophical works of Bertrand Russell, Brian Becker, Ramsey Clark…or my favourite…the late, Sam Marcy) – but it doesn’t change the fact – originality isn’t your strong suit. You may want to develope an argument minus the ad hominem (and need I say, superficial) attacks. Antics like these really diminish yourself.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 3, 2006 @ 11:00 am
No, no no… I just typed what came to mind. I don’t give you enough thought or validity to do any research. And unlike you neocons, we are not brainwashed. We think for ourselves. Know you don’t understand that, but it’s a fact – accept it – even with the blind faith you invest in all the unprovable attachments in your life.
Diminish? Hardly. This is, after all, anonymous. I’m not actually a recognizable person. What would I be diminishing? My avatar? So what? And in case you didn’t catch on yet, it’s a liberal blog. Just bashing a neocon would add to my credibility alone in here.
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:23 pmTo get FISA authorization they would only have needed the AG to sign off. Since Moussaoui was not a US person, they would not have needed a FISC order. That is, searching Moussaoui’s computer would have been covered under the part of the statute that permits warrantless searches. The only requirement would have been for AG Ashcroft to certify that MS was believed to be an agent of a foreign power.
Am I right? The question was raised HERE in a comment on my post and has me a little confused because everyone is talking like they would have needed a FISC order. But ZM is not a US person. Indeed, the discussion about issuing the authorization centered around the issue of ZM’s status as an agent of a foreign power, which was required for AG authorization in the part of the statute that discusses authorization of warrantless searches.
I really don’t get it. If the requirement was only AG sign off then you’ve pretty much already got no judicial oversight. They just needed Ashcroft to say that he believes MS to be an agent of foreign power. The FISA statute was too strict even in this regard?!?
Also, there are lots of comments that don’t pertain to the article. I tried to skim to see if this point had been discussed already but there are loads of posts. Maybe Thinkprogress needs a general discussion forum or open threads. Just a suggestion.
February 7th, 2006 at 11:49 am[...] Blog Name: Think Progress Article Title: The Moussaoui Myth One of the big arguments advanced by the right is that Bush’s warrantless domestic spying program could have prevented 9/11. The Washington Post gave Bill Kristol and Gary Schmitt space to make this argument on December 20: Consider the case… [...]
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