BREAKING NEWS: Abramoff To Plead Guilty Today
By on Jan 3rd, 2006 at 9:23 am
BREAKING NEWS: Abramoff To Plead Guilty Today
From CNN:
Filing papers in court now.
Pleading guilty to fraud, corruption and tax evasion in Federal Court.
Agreement reached late last night.
It’s a cooperation agreement. Final sentence will be determined when he finishes cooperating. Maximum of 10 years.
CNN reports he’s been cooperating for over a year.
UPDATE: The New York Times has the story.
UPDATE II: CNN says the paperwork will be officially filed at about 12:15 or 12:30 today.
UPDATE III: Hotline reports Abramoff’s attorney will hold a press conference at 12:30 PM.
UPDATE IV: Abramoff’s “Criminal Information” — the facts he’s admitting to as part of his plea agreement — is available from CNN.
View Most Popular
Advertisement
What We're About
What We're Fighting For
What We're Fighting Against
Featured
Subscribe to the Progress Report
Topic CloudView topics sorted by popularity
Afghanistan
Bachmann
Beck
Boehner
Business
Cheney
Civil Rights
Congress
Corporate Ethics
Dobbs
Economy
Education
Election
Energy
Environment
Ethics
Fox News
Gingrich
Glenn Beck
Global Warming
Health Care
Immigration
International Relations
Justice
LGBT
Lieberman
Limbaugh
Media
Military
O'Reilly
Obama
Palin
Pelosi
Politics
Race
Radical Right
Religion
Sports
Steele
Stimulus
Tea Parties
Tea Party
Terrorism
Veterans
Women's Rights
Visit Our Affiliated Sites
Reports
In-depth studies on select topics
Got a hot tip?
Have a hot news tip? We'd love to hear from you. Use the form below to send us the latest.
ArchivesBlog Roll
The “pucker factor” in D.C. is off the scale by now.
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:31 amHm. I certainly hope the shit hits the fan, but I just can’t get too excited.
The Republican Party is backed by a continuing criminal enterprise, and there’s SO much hidden money behind them (and, I’ll bet, available), that I just don’t feel that real justice will be served, or done.
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:36 amSales of adult diapers in the DC metro area increase rapidly.
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:39 amThe wormm has turned. I’m freakin giddy.
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:42 amWhat post-holiday depression? This is better than Christmas!
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:55 amIt’s almost enough to make an atheist like me thank God.
Almost, but not quite.
Can’t wait to see Keith Olbermann’s take on this tonight.
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:58 amFeces in the air circulator soon!
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:01 ambig news… now, let’s see who he’s going to take down with him…
And, yes, I DO take it personally
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:02 amIt’s positive, but that doesn’t mean it will be an unambigious plus for the Democrats as they might get some of his love.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:04 amThat will be continued and complete cooperation, Mr. Abramoff, for as long as we’d like, in any case that falls under the wide umbrella of the word conspiracy.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:06 amI don’t care if some or many democrats get taken down by this. the larger issue is to get rid of the culture of corruption in Washington. Ideally, this will call for bipartisan reform of lobbying, gift-taking and campaign finance.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:07 amThis is not only better than Christmas, Unbelievable,
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:13 amit’s better than my anti-depressants!!
Ah, 2006 is off to a glorious start. Wait…what’s that sound? It almost sounds like the once glorious heards of buffalo that roamed the great plains in the thousands…
Oh, it’s Republicans who took money from Abramoff running for the hills.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:19 amI don’t care if some or many democrats get taken down by this. the larger issue is to get rid of the culture of corruption in Washington. Ideally, this will call for bipartisan reform of lobbying, gift-taking and campaign finance.
Comment by Anti Warhol — January 3, 2006 @ 10:07 am
Exactly! We need the corrupt Dems to go just as much as the corrupt Republicans. It’s time for a good House (and Senate) cleaning in general.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:23 amThis is an interesting point of view from TPM on this issue and I recommend reading it.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/007341.php
My observation of this point is that if the republicans have learned there is no real negative consequences to the party (only a few bad apples (scape goats) get punished) then there is no reason to modify the behavior of corruption. After this scandal is over a new group of “chumps” will be set up to perform the same improper actions and the party will maintain its lead using improper and questionable means to keep the upper hand over the competition.
I understand the point of view that to prosecute everyone involved in this scandal the legislative branch will defacto become political and that should not occur, but to truly correct this improper behavior some kind of real bad negative consequences need to be meted out or it will not end and there is no reason for the competition not to perform the same infractions given the opportunity.
With this new relevant point of view I will be interested to see if the scope of this investigation does not gain the wide amount of prosecutions it deserves.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:28 amlet’s see… the NSA thing (and Plame and Downing St.) will shake up the Bush admin… Ambramoff is going to rock the Republicant Congress… two branches down, one to go!
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:33 am#12 #15 I agree completely. I’m not so loyal that I want even corrupt Democratics in Congress. If they’re dirty, then they have to go. And if they’re filthy rotten dirty, then they have to go to jail. Party affiliation is meaningless. They all took oaths of office that said they would behave better than this, and it doesn’t matter what party they’re in, if they’re bad, they’re out of there.
Speaking of party affiliation, it would be nice if C-SPAN would identify politician’s by actual party name instead of simply as “other.” I wrote to them about this and they told me that each House controls what viewers see from the chambers. It is a common misconception in this country that there are only two political parties. This is because the two major political parties want people to think that. They want people to believe that we only have an either-or choice. We need election and elecftion financing reform and we need it yesterday!
This is one reason why I have often promoted the idea that candidates for federal office should only be allowed to accept money from individuals whom they will represent in Congress. There is absolutely no justification for a candidate from New York State (like Senator Clinton) accepting money from people outside of NY (my home state.)
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:33 amThe thing that makes me cynical is the scope of the legal horsetrading and influence peddling that went on. The thing that makes me optimistic is the widespread disgust about it all, as it’s dragged squealing into the sunlight.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:43 amgreat stuff from norm orenstein and ej dionne on the diane rehm show right now
http://wamu.org/programs/dr/
byron york is also on and is having his lunch served to him by no and ed
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:55 am“Culture of corruption” is the most accurate talking point – if you want to call it that – I have heard, unlike the insulting “criminalization of politics” rhetoric. What bothers me most is that this corruption is nothing new. It may have reached peak levels recently, but corruption is practically a tradition in American politics. And the corrupt are unwilling to make the necessary reforms (especially concerning campaign financing) to our government because they will lose power and money for it. Someone tell me why I should expect a change in the culture with or without the Abramoff fallout. I want to believe in our government, but they make it so hard.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:56 amThis is one reason why I have often promoted the idea that candidates for federal office should only be allowed to accept money from individuals whom they will represent in Congress. There is absolutely no justification for a candidate from New York State (like Senator Clinton) accepting money from people outside of NY (my home state.)
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 3, 2006 @ 10:33 am
Wayne, we’ve sorta started to discuss this and frankly, I do not understand why more people aren’t eager for campaign reform considering the choice we had in 2004 where MTV actually ran a program to determine which of the two had the most ‘bling’ (was Bush of course)… How are people missing the point that if you have to have billions to run for office, you’re going to be representing those billions and not your constituency.
This whole thing really ignites me. Rich people born into money have no idea what it’s like to be a smart kid from a poor family who can’t afford to sent him to college or a single widow of four who works two jobs and still can’t make ends meet or an elderly man with cancer living off of social security and medicare… No wonder they will cut those programs instead of Ted Stevens pointless bridge and multi-billion dollar nuclear weapontry that is superfluous and against our present behavior of attacking countries who think about having one…
It’s great that we’re getting rid of the criminals in Washington, but it’s just a band-aid. We really need to reform the system, as human behavior will continue to produce corrupt tyrants pursuing positions of authority and power to replace these…
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:58 amWe need the corrupt Dems to go just as much as the corrupt Republicans. It’s time for a good House (and Senate) cleaning in general.
Comment by unbelievable — January 3, 2006 @ 10:23 am
ditto that! if the docs are going in to remove the cancer, they need to remove ALL of it… there may be some Dems involved in this, but it will be mostly – yippee! – Republicants…
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:01 am“Culture of corruption†is the most accurate talking point – if you want to call it that – I have heard, unlike the insulting “criminalization of politics†rhetoric. What bothers me most is that this corruption is nothing new. It may have reached peak levels recently, but corruption is practically a tradition in American politics. And the corrupt are unwilling to make the necessary reforms (especially concerning campaign financing) to our government because they will lose power and money for it. Someone tell me why I should expect a change in the culture with or without the Abramoff fallout. I want to believe in our government, but they make it so hard.
Comment by SuperEdo — January 3, 2006 @ 10:56 am
Absolutely! We continue to deny human behavior and blame the theory of Democracy… we need to realize that corrupt people are drawn to corrupt systems and find a way to fix the system itself. Or we’ll just wind up right back where we are…
The Founding Fathers expected the Constitution to be a living document. But at the current toxicity in Washington, it is being suffocated to death.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:02 am2006: The Dems’ Make-or-Break Year
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-foster-altschul/2006-the-dems-makeorb_b_13186.html
Hire this guy! It’s time for the dems to stay clear and focused on actually winning an election!
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:04 am#16 – Dave – thanks for the link; Joshua brought up some very good points to ponder and discuss. Our congressional leaders have a moral/ethical obligation to conduct themselves responsibly. Just because we elect our leaders doesn’t automatically elevate them above the laws they have created on our behalf. Joshua discussed that the DOJ was, perhaps, too successful in rooting out Washingtonian corruption and stopped before there was a notable imbalance in the political power (a third of the Congress could have been potentially prosecuted for taking bribes). I say, carry forth; don’t stop. If a third of our leaders would resort to corrupt practices, then they clearly need to be relieved of their elected responsibilities.
I think it is also clear that it doesn’t matter what political party these individuals belong to. It is about the moral fabric of our democracy and country that is at stake here. The greater moral crisis we face is not about what personal choices one makes that affects their own life, but the choices one makes that affects the many. As my grandmother would say, the extreme right wing is “picking flecks out of fly s**t” when they beat the war drums on gay marriage and abortion. I think it’s far more prudent to eradicate the likes of Tom DeLay and George Bush who defecate all over our Constitution, smile while they’re doing it, and cry ‘foul’ when they’re brought to justice regarding their actions.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:16 am#18 – Wayne – I was “represented” by Randy Cunningham. Greed, envy and pomposity destroyed him and the trust his constituents placed with him. I agree that no one outside of a district should contribute to the campaigns of either body of Congress.
#22 – Unbelievable – I can’t believe I’m about to say this – but I agree with you – the system needs reforming. But what reforms do you suggest? Human nature does not change, but an entrenched sub-culture (Washington DC, Sacramento, Albany etc.) flourishes when pols loose sight of the reasons they seek office. I think we need to work vigorously for term-limits. Senators might be limited to two 6 year terms, and Congress to four two-year terms. This might accomplish what the founding fathers envisioned when considering citizen legislators.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:17 amI agree with mighty.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:20 amI also hope to see certain members of congress blowing their heads off on live TV.
How can money be taken out of the equation? Campaign finance breeds corruption like the tax code. And people only get busted after the damage is done.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:24 amThis system should be crook proof. It is not. And politicians are crooks by nature. It’s too easy to get comfortable with power. Even non-politicians know this. Non-profit and gov’t contract folks get used to easy money. It’s wrong.
Wow, I’m getting support from both sides of the political spectrum! Thank you both unbelievable and mighty aphrodite. This must mean that either my idea is doomed, or it can start snowballing and getting more support. Let’s hope for the latter.
Like any idea for change, it will take time and patience and a good deal of letter-writing (to Congress, to newspapers, to other blogs) to gain momentum. But it’s good to know that at least one of my ideas wasn’t just some “crazy liberal wish-wash.” (my words, no one called them that.)
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:26 am#27
Typical righty response; term limits. Problem is; will do nothing but allow lobbyists greater power, with “access to freshmen” congressmen with writing that complicated bill.
The system is corrupt because of money! Stop the flow of cash from lobbyists and the system will correct.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:27 amThis, what’s going to happen today, is almost better that sex.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:36 amC’mon Jack, Momma needs a few dozen Republican convictions!
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:37 am#18 – Rock on, Wayne!
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:39 amNice way to start the new year!
Here’s to hoping these jerks sing like leetle birdies and take down the top most corrupt layers of the Greedy ‘Ol Parasite party.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:41 am#26 I agree with your comments about rooting them all out but the point of the article was the checks and balances set forth in the constitution are designed for the legislative not to be political in nature.
This administration is already politicizing the legislative branch with their appointments and I have a feeling it is for “preemptive judgments” so that when they are inevitably brought to justice for their known discressions the deck is stacked in their favor for an acquittal.
The question is how to broadly prosecute the majority of bad players without becoming political in the process.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:41 amCitizen80203,
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:41 amThe scary part is many members think “pay to play” is legitimate government. This is a real problem. Not just with the system but with hard wiring in the minds of non-patriots.
#12, #15, #18 — Mighty big of you not to exempt Democrats from the corruption charge. Why would you do otherwise? Why do you even support the Democrats anyway? Have they proven themselves to be an effective opposition party? Do they represent the 55-60% of the population that is not at all behind the Republican agenda?
Wayne — I wasn’t aware that there were any Congressmen from “other” parties other than Jim Jeffords. Are there Greens in the House?
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:47 amWhat about Ralph Reed? Has he been mentioned. He is knee deep in this and I truly hope that that “Christian” creep gets his just deserts.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:49 am#38 Mass. Liberal,
In all candor, I hold my nose and vote for the Democratic candidate over the Republican one not because I believe in everything they do, but more because I view them as “the lesser of two evils.” And because my congressional district has voted for the Republican for as long as I can remember, it hasn’t mattered one way or the other.
But I have voted for other party’s candidates in the past because I was hoping to help them get the necessary percentage of votes so their party can get on the ballot in New York State automatically, without having to get petitions signed (a notoriously difficult thing to accomplish because of how easily entire sheets of signatures get thrown out. The system protects the uincumbents.) I even cast a vote for “Grandpa” Al Lewis (yes, of The Munsters) when he ran for governor for this reason. And I voted for Nader because I knew Gore would win NY. We need to have more than just Democratics and Republicans in our governments. State legislatures do it all over the country. It can work.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:05 pmAll you giddy optimists who think accountability “payback” time is nigh had better come down to earth.
Alberto Gonzales wasn’t installed at DOJ, Roberts, Scumlia, and “kiss a** Tom” Thomas and the Supremes on the treasonous court for nothing!
American justice (the punishment part that is) applies only to the “little people”.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:07 pmConsidering the people this guy deals with … it might just turn out that he is mysteriously found with a “self inflicted” wound to the head in a a seedy hotel room somewhere…
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:11 pmChristmas came late this year. But as they say, ‘Better late then never!’
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:13 pmChristmas came late this year. But as they say, ‘Better late then never!’
Comment by Jason — January 3, 2006 @ 12:13 pm
True, but some of us prefer to celebrate Fitzmas which we hope will come soon. :)
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:17 pmHe needs to name names before ANY plea bargin is made!!
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:18 pmFrom the newest update IV: I don’t know much about legal language, but the document only lists “Representative #1″ as someone Abramoff influenced. Does that mean he is only flipping on one person, or does his cooperation extend to other possible dealings and he is only legally admitting to one of them?
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:20 pm#36 – Agreed, Dave. It ties in with Wayne S’s comments regarding reform. It could be a slippery slope if the DOJ was doing covert corruption investigations to intentionally disrupt the balance of power. Personally, I didn’t see that being the case; possibly because they did stop before the imbalance became apparant. Personally, I would love to see the whole ‘lobbyist’ structure eradicated as well as campaign (funding) reform.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:24 pmI wonder when Harry Reid’s name is going to come up.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:26 pm#39 – What about Ralph Reed?
Great question.
After watching his squeakly clean face on the “liberal” media like Jim Lehrer’s NewsHour as Ralph pontificated on this or that conservative WhackJob christian topic, I hope they nail him to the wall.
Gads! I hate it when conservative christians act like they know how other people should live. The nutjobs have sure wedged their way into politics. Separate church from state. Please.
I was waiting for Ralph’s kinkiness to be revealed. Maybe all he was after was power?
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:32 pm#22 – Unbelievable – I can’t believe I’m about to say this – but I agree with you – the system needs reforming. But what reforms do you suggest? Human nature does not change, but an entrenched sub-culture (Washington DC, Sacramento, Albany etc.) flourishes when pols loose sight of the reasons they seek office. I think we need to work vigorously for term-limits. Senators might be limited to two 6 year terms, and Congress to four two-year terms. This might accomplish what the founding fathers envisioned when considering citizen legislators.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 3, 2006 @ 11:17 am
This is a surprise…
I imagine his is where it ends though. I’m just not big on government. Communities work so much better because you deal with people and not statistics or theories. I think that if we are going to have government, it should be more local and less federal in nature.
Well, if we agree that Democracy works at local, smaller levels because people tend to ‘flock’ into communities that work for them (the human nature part), and they can elect officials who represent them out of their own neighborhoods because it’s cheaper to advertize locally, plus you just get to know these people, then that might provide us some insight. The Feds have simply gotten too big to be watched or managed – or to care about your next door neighbor who just lost their house in the tornado last night. I think we need more focus at a local level and less government at a Federal level. Not necessarily more government, but more efficient government.
I know people say this seems inefficient because you have some redundancy, which is true. But the system isn’t going to be perfect. We have to stop expecting perfection. But, if we want a system that works for humans, it has to be a human system… no theory and statistics, but as intended – a government of, by and for the people.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:46 pmColor me cynical, but with all this brown hitting the fan, this would be the perfect time for BushCo. to begin the attack against Iran. The projections of catastrophic destruction are so intense, they will create a situation wherein Chimpy will call for martial law (like he’s been preparing to do for lo these many years) and by then, all this talk of corruption will be “meaningless.”
WHATEVER he’s going to do, he needs to do it quickly. Before Bush’s button-pushing finger gets itchy. And it’s already aimed at the button.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:49 pmI think we need to work vigorously for term-limits. Senators might be limited to two 6 year terms, and Congress to four two-year terms. This might accomplish what the founding fathers envisioned when considering citizen legislators.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 3, 2006 @ 11:17 am
But it won’t stop bad eggs from replacing bad eggs… I lived in a state that put this into action and they found problems with finding enough people to run for office because it was a temporary thing. And if they liked someone, he or she was unable to be effective because the turn over rate made it difficult to form relationships. In reality, it didn’t seem to be much better than how Communism turned out…
The Greek did have a system where every person over 21 got to serve a one year paid representative position. I thought that was interesting because it forced people to get involved. But, on the other hand, you really couldn’t give them much power because it could create chaos with the turn-over rate…
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:51 pm#51 .. Bush isnt the last word… we are ..and we got fingers with buttons also.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:53 pmThis is bad news for corrupt Democrats like Dirty Harry Reid and Byron Dorgan.
The fact is that a small minority of members, including minor Republicans and major Democrats, was involved with this Man, Jack Abramoff.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:53 pm. . . hmm, 24 minutes past the posted time for the news conference.
I’m jonesin’ for some justice.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:54 pmHow can money be taken out of the equation? Campaign finance breeds corruption like the tax code. And people only get busted after the damage is done.
This system should be crook proof. It is not. And politicians are crooks by nature. It’s too easy to get comfortable with power. Even non-politicians know this. Non-profit and gov’t contract folks get used to easy money. It’s wrong.
Comment by Gus the Loving OBGYN — January 3, 2006 @ 11:24 am
We the People own the airwaves, freedom of the Internet and freedom of the press. If we allow people free and limited, air time, press, and internet – as well as some public $ (which I believe will cost us less in the long run because Corporate America won’t be the priority), we can take the Corporate money out of it. We’re rich as a nation. Why can’t we spend some of wealth on allowing deserving people without money to represent us???
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:55 pmMSMBC is reporting that he is pleading guilty to bribery too. That means someone else has to go down with him.
The conspiracy charge in Florida will mean that many are going down with him.
Rep. Bob Ney (R,Ohio) seems to be a major focal point. He says he hasn’t been approached by investigators. That must mean that they have enough info on him and want to see if he will lie when questioned. He’s preparing a statement. We’ll let him make that statement before he has knowledge of the info investigators have.
I’m betting he’ll perjure himself.
We know Bushie and Cheney’s position on this. They both claim DeLay is innocent. By stating their positions, is proof that they have knowledge of this scandal and chose not to bring it to the attention of the American People.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:56 pm#54
Democrats received money from Abramoff clients: LEGAL
(Some) Republicans received money from Abramoff: ILLEGAL
It’s your basic ignorance that makes you a good Republivan. Keep up the non-thinking.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:56 pmAnd the New York Times shows their bias, as their headline is:
“G.O.P. Lobbyist to Plead Guilty in Deal With Prosecutors”
Never mind the fact that Abramoff worked with both parties..
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:57 pmWhy is it illegal for Jack Abramoff to give money to someone? He gave the legal limit, and he did it without strings.
But he also got the tribes to bribe members like Dorgan and Reid.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:58 pmWow, I’m getting support from both sides of the political spectrum! Thank you both unbelievable and mighty aphrodite. This must mean that either my idea is doomed, or it can start snowballing and getting more support. Let’s hope for the latter.
Like any idea for change, it will take time and patience and a good deal of letter-writing (to Congress, to newspapers, to other blogs) to gain momentum. But it’s good to know that at least one of my ideas wasn’t just some “crazy liberal wish-wash.†(my words, no one called them that.)
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 3, 2006 @ 11:26 am
Wayne, have you read any of Gore Vidals works? He’s very big on the idea of free elections. Maybe someone like that might be worth contacting as well.
I’ve been trying to convince my friends of the same thing for the past year, and they all ignore me. Sure, great idea, but add it to the list… why I came here, hoping to find others to gain momentum.
I consider myself Independent until their is a Humanist Party, and then I will join them. Until we put Humanity (value for ALL life) first, I sincerely believe everything else will fail…
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:58 pm#54 Gary, The fact is that a small minority of members, including minor Republican
If you consider Delay small time then you prove how delussional you are.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:03 pmRemember Scanlon? DeLays press secretary? He has pleaded guilty too.
Delay will be the focus of the bribery and conspiracy charges. Thats why prosecuters are working to get Delays conspriracy charges reinstated. Abramhoff squeeled!
Mighty big of you not to exempt Democrats from the corruption charge. Why would you do otherwise? Why do you even support the Democrats anyway? Have they proven themselves to be an effective opposition party? Do they represent the 55-60% of the population that is not at all behind the Republican agenda?
Comment by Massachusetts Liberal — January 3, 2006 @ 11:47 am
Other than Kerry for President, in the last four years (including local elections when I lived in California) I have voted for Independents who represented my values (mostly Green Party). Not everyone in here is a Democrat.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:03 pm[i]Why is it illegal for Jack Abramoff to give money to someone? He gave the legal limit, and he did it without strings.[/i]
It’s illegal for a lobbyist to pay for congressional travel. Abramoff is reported to have paid for three of DeLay’s trips abroad.
Maybe you should read or watch something besides FOX.
[i]But he also got the tribes to bribe members like Dorgan and Reid.[/i]
LOL, really? To do what, exactly?
Do you just make shit up as you go along?
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:05 pmTalking points wont save you on this one Gary. Mainstream media is calling this the biggest scandal in decades.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:05 pmLike always, the mafia wannabe’s are squeeling like pigs!
Don’t you just love to hear the, “stop blaming others for your problems, Right” continually point fingers every time they are caught breaking the law.
What’s the matter bank robber, bad childhood? ..WAAAAAAA
Did they take your foodstamps single mother?Get a job…WAAAA
Life in jail drug dealer?Blame it on society ….WAAAAA
Now we’ll add:
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:07 pmFraud,corruption,treason etc. Republican?.Blame the Democrats WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
#62 unbelievable
No, I haven’t read any of Gore Vidal’s works. Anything in particular you think I should try to find? It sounds like my company’s coming to its senses and letting us go home early today (with pay; I’m in southern NY and we have a bit of a snowstorm on our hands, but it’s nothing like the good folks in the north have to deal with every year), so I might not be around too much longer (maybe 1/2-hour?)
Was Gore Vidal the one who wrote The Executioner’s Song? Or am I confusing him with someone else?
Oh, and I like your posts just ahead of this one. Good ideas. ANd I do agree that Humanity should be the first priority for those in government. It’s time to put an end to the concept of a corporation having the same status as a person. It might sound nice in theory (if that’s where you make your money), but when you allow corporations to donate to political parties and campaigns, you’re asking for more corruption than you even care to imagine possible.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:10 pm#66
LOL
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:14 pmIt’s positive, but that doesn’t mean it will be an unambigious plus for the Democrats as they might get some of his love.
Comment by James
James #10,
As Lennon and The Beatles would say, “Let It be”.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:15 pmI agree that no one outside of a district should contribute to the campaigns of either body of Congress.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 3, 2006 @ 11:17 am
Whoa!! Mighty Aphrodite making a comment that is both on topic and thoughtful!?
It has to be the New Year spirit…
This might accomplish what the founding fathers envisioned when considering citizen legislators.
And Mighty Aphrodite has done it again! Not one, but two meaningful thoughts instead of the usual derisive comments.
Well, with the exception of Gary Ruppert who is busy deflecting and looking for a way to change the subject, I think we have a consensus on the need for finance campaign reform.
Corruption is rampant in the halls of power and something needs to be done.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:15 pmDon’t you just love to hear the, “stop blaming others for your problems, Right†continually point fingers every time they are caught breaking the law.
Comment by too
too #66
Yep, I most certainly do.
Hypocrites never disappoint.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:17 pmAgain, Gary Ruppert behaves like the typical partisan mindless apologist drone. It’s funny that Abramoff has pleaded guilty and Gary is still defending his innocence. Gary, don’t you think it’s time to face reality? And again, you make unsubstantiated claims that Reid is “dirty.†Fine, if through the course of this investigation there is evidence that Reid or any other Dem committed a crime, then of course they should be indicted. Currently, there is no such evidence, and this unsubstantiated speculation on your part is a pitiful ploy to reshape the facts to suit your biased views. Corruption is bad for all Americans. Gary, it’s time for you to act like an American and not a partisan, apologist stooge.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:17 pmunbelievable,
Because weak people don’t factor. The GOP has no moral standing anymore. Lott and Newt both know it. They lost it with Katrina.
There is a stretch of Dallas that runs between Harry Hines and Interstate 35. This is the area of cheap imports, smog, illegal aliens, litter, needles laying in the gutters, children running around in their diapers on public streets, topless bars, “modeling” studios, and whores, contruction workers getting blow jobs out in the open by prostitutes, uptown Neocons looking for whores.
That is the GOP.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:17 pmHere, Gary- You seem to be having a really difficult time following the money trail:
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2005/12/18/national/20051219_LOBBY_GRAPHIC.html
Also, you seem to be having a problem with the hierarchy of leadership. If you note on the list above, folks like Dennis Hastert, Conrad Burns, Tom Delay, and Trent Lott are not exactly “minor republicans”. Dornan and Harry Reid are obviously part of the Democratic leadership, and we shall soon find out what involvement (if any) they had in any illegal dealings with ther Tribes, or whether they were even aware that the deal had been brokered by Ambramoff. If so, they have to suffer the penalties as any Republican lawmaker. Let’s not forget that this is Bush’s Justice Department- so scream all you want about the liberal conspriracy.
Educate yourself on the topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Abramoff
If you must run cowering to your familiar Talking Points, feel free to do so. It ain’t gonna stop this train from pulling in.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:17 pmI think what’s happening is good for the GOP. Abramoff is likely going to cooperate to bring down the Dems and smear them in an election year.
What’s even better – Democrats plan to attack the GOP on privacy issues!! Of course, with no evidence. The GOP will strike back with the fact that liberals ILLEGALLY accessed Michael Steele’s credit records. Schumer’s partisan prints are all over that one.
With Bush approaching 50% the polls and the public firmly behind wiretapping terrorists, it is no wonder the morons at ThinkProgress are freaking out. You are going to lose again in 2006!
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:19 pmNo, I haven’t read any of Gore Vidal’s works. Anything in particular you think I should try to find? It sounds like my company’s coming to its senses and letting us go home early today (with pay; I’m in southern NY and we have a bit of a snowstorm on our hands, but it’s nothing like the good folks in the north have to deal with every year), so I might not be around too much longer (maybe 1/2-hour?)
He writes short but powerful books he calls pamphlets – like back in Thomas Paine’s era… There are three that deal with current corruption (I’ve read two) – Imperial America, Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace, and Dreaming War. Imperial America addresses the idea of free elections, but he doesn’t go into great detail (loses the idea of brevity).
Good luck with the snow storm… I think you guys are getting the rainstorms we have had the last couple of days. Glad they’re letting you out.
Was Gore Vidal the one who wrote The Executioner’s Song? Or am I confusing him with someone else?
Maybe, he’s written plays and fiction as well as his political works.
Oh, and I like your posts just ahead of this one. Good ideas. ANd I do agree that Humanity should be the first priority for those in government. It’s time to put an end to the concept of a corporation having the same status as a person. It might sound nice in theory (if that’s where you make your money), but when you allow corporations to donate to political parties and campaigns, you’re asking for more corruption than you even care to imagine possible.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 3, 2006 @ 1:10 pm
Same here. I’m a bit excited to talk with someone who is on the same page and has been thinking similar thoughts. Now we need to find others who want to join us and start taking some action – that strength in numbers thing.
I’m just so sick of all the theory and all the fighting. We keep forgetting the priority of humanity.
Sorry for any typos, wanted to post before you left.
Look forward to talking again. (I go back to work tomorrow, so I usually post in the afternoons and on weekend mornings – more if I can find the time :).
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:19 pm#73 – STFU. Have been to Detroit or Philly lately you partisan dipshit!! The fact you even believe what you’re saying is scary and sad.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:20 pm#71 Now take it easy, Gregor. This may be the common ground we’ve all sought to try to fix the problems in this country. I, for one, appreciate her support for the idea. I just hope that more people from both sides of the aisle will come together and recognize that the status quo cannot be allowed to continue. It;s too bad that some of the people getting caught up in this scandal have resorted to calling it “the criminalization of politics,” but if they think that this way of doing things serves the public, then they deserve to get thrown in jail, regardless of party.
And you’re absolutely right that “Corruption is rampant in the halls of power and something needs to be done.”
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:21 pmI don’t care if it is either or both parties. The main point here is that corporations and big $$ interests rule the country through people like Mr. Abramoff and their political connections. If we can’t agree on this as a people then we need to go back and change the whole concept of a government by, for, and of the people ’cause we certainly are not operating under those principles today.
If we (the people) can make this a very painful time for ALL Senators and Congressmen then maybe we can get them to realize that we will no longer stand for “business as usual” in DC. Remember people, we do have the power and we can exercise it every Nov. Get off your butts, research your congressional candidates record (it is all publically available) and make an informed vote. (i.e. ..”is this the person who BEST represents my beliefs and values”) Don’t vote because of one issue or because the candidate is a republican or a democrat etc…. Playing their game will only embolden them.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:21 pm#75 ” Sane Liberal — January 3, 2006 @ 1:19 pm”
That’s some hysterical trolling!
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:23 pm#80 – disagreed. A retarded Republican is always better than a Democrat. Democrats DO NOT have what it takes to fight terrror. They don’t have the stomach for it. They are WEAK.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:24 pmWell, with the exception of Gary Ruppert who is busy deflecting and looking for a way to change the subject, I think we have a consensus on the need for finance campaign reform.
Corruption is rampant in the halls of power and something needs to be done.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — January 3, 2006 @ 1:15 pm
We just need to organize now that we’re finding likemindedness, and use our consensus to be pro-active.
Any suggestions? If two heads are better than one, then gee, we should be stupendous in here… Clearly we’re all here because we’re tired of this. Some just want to complain, or bicker, but I think most of us would do something if we could just find some organized direction. Perhaps we start with some brainstorming and see if we can get this snowball rolling…
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:24 pmA retarded Republican is always better than a Democrat.
Comment by Sane Liberal — January 3, 2006 @ 1:24 pm
Here’s your sign.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:26 pmunbelievable,
Because weak people don’t factor. The GOP has no moral standing anymore. Lott and Newt both know it. They lost it with Katrina.
Comment by Gus the Loving OBGYN — January 3, 2006 @ 1:17 pm
Perhaps it is time to change that. Our Founding Fathers found a bigger Revolution and won, so why can we do something about this? Enough momentum and we just might…
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:27 pm#77 unbelievable,
Thanks for the reading list. I will try to find them. I just hope I don’t have to go to my local library, where my records can be reviewed without a warrant. Maybe there’s a collection of his shorter writings so I can get them all at once. We need more Thomas Paines.
Enjoy your day off.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:27 pm#84 – it’s true. Democrats think Bush is the enemy – not al Queda. They are currently residing in an alternate universe where Arianna Huffington is a reliable source. It’s pathetic. Democrats will never get back in power because they are all mental.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:29 pm#80 – disagreed. A retarded Republican is always better than a Democrat. Democrats DO NOT have what it takes to fight terrror. They don’t have the stomach for it. They are WEAK.
Comment by Sane Liberal — January 3, 2006 @ 1:24 pm
Did you know that you face greater odds of being killed by your spouse (95% of victims knew their murder), from heart failure due to second hand cigarette smoke, in a car accident, from cancer, being struck by lightening, attacked by killer bees or through a poisonsous spider bite than you do of being killed by a terrorist on American soil?
The “High” threat of terror is a fear tactic to fund military finance and invasions.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:34 pm#50 – Unbelievable – I’m starting to think one of us got hit by a bolt. I have always advocated smaller federal government and more responsive (and yes, smaller) local governments. It is harder to fool local overseers – unless all their hands are in the cookie jar. Big government is bloated – I think national defense is important as well as interstate commerce laws and regulations. Local school control, zoning, and first responder disaster relief, which can be supplemented by neighboring communitees and states.
Re: $$ in politics – while unions and business interests will have a go at freshmen, if term limits are applied, not one of them can amass the kind of power and influence that is often, sadly, corrupting. Let all of the lawyers, businessmen, labour union activists, etc. go home and get on with their lives after their term is over. Should they decide to run for another position – the way they often do here in California, they still are low representative on a revolving totem pole …. and they seem to wield alot less power.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:34 pmFunny stuff:
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/How_Jack_Abramoff_and_Michael_Scanlon_0103.html
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:35 pm# 88 – thank you for proving my point. Denial doesn’t work for most people.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:36 pm#54 Gary, The fact is that a small minority of members, including minor Republican
Internet forum axiom #42: Always assume a lie when someone begins a statement with “The fact is…”
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:36 pmThanks for the reading list. I will try to find them. I just hope I don’t have to go to my local library, where my records can be reviewed without a warrant. Maybe there’s a collection of his shorter writings so I can get them all at once. We need more Thomas Paines.
Enjoy your day off.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 3, 2006 @ 1:27 pm
Thanks Gary, you too… Nice talking some common sense for a change :)
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:37 pmDemocrats think Bush is the enemy – not al Queda.
Comment by Sane Liberal — January 3, 2006 @ 1:29 pm
Logical fallacy (strawman) #1.
They are currently residing in an alternate universe where Arianna Huffington is a reliable source.
Logical fallacy (strawman) #2.
Democrats will never get back in power because they are all mental.
Logical fallacy (wishful thinking) #3
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:39 pmWas Gore Vidal the one who wrote The Executioner’s Song? Or am I confusing him with someone else?
No. Gore Vidal is someone else and well worth reading. You are mixing him up with one of his contemporaries, Norman Mailer.
#22 – Unbelievable – I can’t believe I’m about to say this – but I agree with you – the system needs reforming. But what reforms do you suggest? Human nature does not change, but an entrenched sub-culture (Washington DC, Sacramento, Albany etc.) flourishes when pols loose sight of the reasons they seek office. I think we need to work vigorously for term-limits. Senators might be limited to two 6 year terms, and Congress to four two-year terms. This might accomplish what the founding fathers envisioned when considering citizen legislators.
Comment by mighty aphrodite
On the one hand your first instinct is to blame human nature. But on the other hand you also think government is a necessary evil, having convinced yourself that you are a conservative. The policies of the people you voted for have allowed corruption to flourish. Graft and corruption in any system, buraeucracy, organization, agency, corporation, government, what have you, is systemic and institutional. Human nature, which you don’t understand, is more complex than the functioning of these social constructs, and less transparent. Not everyone who goes into politics does so for the right reasons. You want to check into Adorno’s, F-scale. For more information, consult T. W. Adorno et al., The Authoritarian Personality (New York: Harper & Brothers, 1950). And you need to look into political corruption. You still won’t know much after reading the wiki, but it’s a start.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:40 pmOh yeah, Adorno was a Marxist, and adherent of Marcuse.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:41 pmSane Liberl …democrats won WWII … or are you a commi?
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:43 pm#91
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:44 pmSane Liberal – a.k.a. I-RIGHT-I, The only thing your venomous, partisan ranting proves is that you’re a hateful, freedom-loathing idiot. Sorry, but your divisive partisan ploys aren’t working here. It’s pretty obvious that you have nothing of substance to say. It must really get in your craw that corruption will be one of the issues which unite moderates from both parties– leaving extreme partisan kooks such as yourself out of the mainstream and politically neutered. Go find a nice right-wing blog to spew your venom at and leave this thread to the real freedom loving Americans.
Gore Vidal is an anti-American scum bag so most of you people love him. The man should be executed for treason.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:45 pmWiki has many entries on corruption, not just political, and google corruption, it’s as much a global issue as “global warming”.
The World Bank (must be commies) even has an anti-corruption site.
The Bank has identified corruption as the single greatest obstacle to economic and social development. It undermines development by distorting the rule of law and weakening the institutional foundation on which economic growth depends.
The harmful effects of corruption are especially severe on the poor, who are hardest hit by economic decline, are most reliant on the provision of public services, and are least capable of paying the extra costs associated with bribery, fraud, and the misappropriation of economic privileges.
Corruption sabotages policies and programs that aim to reduce poverty, so attacking corruption is critical to the achievement of the Bank’s overarching mission of poverty reduction. We believe that an effective anticorruption strategy builds on five key elements:
1. Increasing Political Accountability
2. Strengthening Civil Society Participation
3. Creating a Competitive Private Sector
4. Institutional Restraints on Power
5. Improving Public Sector Management
To reduce the corrosive impact of corruption in a sustainable way, it is important to go beyond the symptoms to tackle the causes of corruption. Since 1996, the World Bank has supported more than 600 anticorruption programs and governance initiatives developed by its member countries.
SPECIAL INTEREST
Governance & Political Economy
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:46 pmLeadership & Ethics
#50 – Unbelievable – I’m starting to think one of us got hit by a bolt. I have always advocated smaller federal government and more responsive (and yes, smaller) local governments. It is harder to fool local overseers – unless all their hands are in the cookie jar. Big government is bloated – I think national defense is important as well as interstate commerce laws and regulations. Local school control, zoning, and first responder disaster relief, which can be supplemented by neighboring communitees and states.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 3, 2006 @ 1:34 pm
I guess when everyone takes off the labels, underneath we are all human. And most of us have had enough of the pigs at the trough in Washington.
For some resoan, we seem to refuse to look at what other countries have and are doing successfully (or unsuccessfully) and trying to learn and grow from that. The Founding Fathers certainly never meant for things to be static, and they fully predicted the potential for greed to ruin their experiment on Democracy. Thomas Jefferson, in fact, was dismayed at the lack of a Constitutional Amendment that restricted campaign contributions and diminished the rights of corportations… too bad we can exhume the guy and run him for office again… :)
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:46 pm#90 mighty aphrodite,
As much as I appreciate the fact that you agree with an idea I posted about campagn financing (only from the people you represent – we need to find a catchy way of phrasing that so people remember it better), I have to respectfully disagree about term limits. In truth, I don’t even like that the Constitution was amended to allow a president only two terms.
I think that people should be allowed to vote for whomever they choose. Some states have term limits on their Congressional representation, but I have my doubts about the constitutionality of those laws. [Because it costs so much money to take a case to the Supreme Court, it would not surprise me if it hasn't been challenged there yet. It would surprise me even more if they were upheld.] The constitution sets the requirements for Congress, and how many terms you’ve served previously is not among them.
The reason that I don’t favor term limits is because we have enough of a problem with voter apathy and non-participation in this country. To me, if people start getting the idea that they don’t have to go to the polls on Election Day (which should be a federal holiday – any takers?) because the guy in office now won’t be allowed to stay too long, it would give them even more reason to stay home. We need to find ways to encourage people to vote (Federal holiday anyone? Income tax deduction? How about jury duty exemption if you go vote, instead of the other way around where if you register to vote you get called?) and to get involved with, well, basic good citizenship.
It’s a shame really that so many have died to protect the right of the few who actually exercise the right to vote. We all owe it to them to participate in the process (and participate honestly.)
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:46 pmAmazing. The ReichWingNuteWackJob trolls are going crazy.
Must be a little too close to the truth for these guys.
Repugs signing like leetle birdies drives the trolls nuts. Perhaps it’s because they can’t handle the truth about themselves and their beloved party?
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:46 pmGore Vidal is an anti-American scum bag so most of you people love him. The man should be executed for treason.
Comment by Sane Liberal
Ignore this moron. Talk to Aphrodite instead. She seems quite reasonable today and anxious to fight corruption in government. A noble non-partisan endeavor.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:48 pmGore Vidal is an anti-American scum bag so most of you people love him. The man should be executed for treason.
Comment by Sane Liberal — January 3, 2006 @ 1:45 pm
IRI, it this that homosexual problem you have flaring up again? Just come out of the closet. We’ll accept you for who you are…
You better hope people don’t get executed for treason anymore, or you might find yourself coming to face with your own beast one of these days…
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:50 pm#101 Thomas Jefferson ..can not be brought back … but the party of his 2nd American revolution can. When the Federalists were turning America into a facist state in the early 1800s Jefferson came back home from France and started the RepublicanDemocratic party …and won. Then he reinstated Americas freedoms and pushed them threw into law… think about that ..RepublicanDemocratic party ..that is what we need right now ..a joining of the best of both parties…
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:50 pmGore Vidal
Vidal considers himself a “radical reformer” who has been described as wanting to return to the “pure republicanism” of early America. As a prep school student, he was a supporter of the America First movement. Unlike other supporters of the movement, he continues to hold that the United States should not have become involved in World War II (although he now appears to believe that material assistance to the Allies was a good idea). He has also suggested that President Roosevelt “incited” the Japanese to attack the United States to allow American entry into the war, and believes that FDR had advance knowledge of the attack.
As a political activist, he became a 1960 Democratic candidate for Congress from upstate New York (”You’ll get more with Gore”), receiving the most votes of any Democrat in 50 years. From 1970 to 1972 he was one of the chairmen of the People’s Party, and in California’s 1982 Democratic primary for U.S. Senate, he finished second in a field of nine (polling a half-million votes).
Vidal has stirred up controversy regarding his relations with Timothy McVeigh. The two began a correspondence while McVeigh was in prison, and Vidal believes that McVeigh either had accomplices or was framed for the Oklahoma City terrorist attack. Vidal also has suggested that the attack may have been carried out by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in order to pass stronger anti-terrorist laws.
Views on September 11, 2001
Vidal is critical of the Bush administration, as he has been of previous U.S. administrations that he considers to have either an explicit or implicit expansionist agenda. He has frequently made the point in interviews, essays, and in a recent book that Americans “are now governed by a junta of oil-Pentagon men … both Bushes, Cheney, Rumsfeld and so on”. He claims that for several years this group and their associates have aimed to control the oil of central Asia (after, in his view, gaining effective control of the oil of the Persian Gulf in 1991). Specifically regarding the September 11, 2001 attacks, Vidal writes how such an attack, which he claims American intelligence warned was coming, politically justified the plans the administration already had in August 2001 for invading Afghanistan the following October.
He discusses the lack of defense, including the delay in getting fighter planes into the air to intercept the hijacked airliners, compared with the time one might expect after a hijacking report. If, he says, these huge failures were incompetence, they would deserve “a number of courts martial with an impeachment or two thrown in”. Instead there is to be only a limited inquiry into how the “potential breakdowns among federal agencies … could have allowed the terrorist attacks to occur.” This, concludes Vidal, opens the possibility that the administration in fact let the attack happen, in order to capitalize on a catalyzing event that would enable it to achieve controversial policy goals under the rubric of a War on Terror.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:52 pm(Federal holiday anyone? Income tax deduction? How about jury duty exemption if you go vote, instead of the other way around where if you register to vote you get called?) and to get involved with, well, basic good citizenship.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 3, 2006 @ 1:46 pm
Yes!! Another brilliant suggestion Wayne. In most other countries, they vote over a series of days including weekends so that everyone has a day off in there somewhere, and not just the rich business owners who don’t risk losing their jobs or homes for not being at work). And by Federal Holiday even Wal-Mart has to close so its people can all go vote as well… maybe then we’d wind up with National Health care!
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:55 pmThis is an excellent recent interview with Vidal. The wiki entry isn’t that good, really.
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:56 pm#101 Thomas Jefferson ..can not be brought back … but the party of his 2nd American revolution can. When the Federalists were turning America into a facist state in the early 1800s Jefferson came back home from France and started the RepublicanDemocratic party …and won. Then he reinstated Americas freedoms and pushed them threw into law… think about that ..RepublicanDemocratic party ..that is what we need right now ..a joining of the best of both parties…
Comment by Gerald Gibson — January 3, 2006 @ 1:50 pm
Was a typo – I meant ‘can’t’
Exactly – so how do we start? Any ideas?
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:57 pmI’ve got an idea.
For all of those who are certain that Abramhoff, Scanlon, Ney, DeLay and other pugs are innocent, lets make a deal.
If they are found guilty and sentenced to jail time, (Scanlon and Abramhoff is a done deal) you promise to do their time for them.
If found innocent, you just continue you’re medication and make all of your doctors appointments.
Do we have a deal mighty, Gary, IRI, Insane Pug?
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:58 pmAre you willing to do their time? Are you that positive they are innocent.
#111 – when you admit to being completely detached from reality, then we can help you. I am sure Jacky boy is guilty – he funded Harry Reid so that pretty much proves he’s guilty. But considering liberals like you cry over putting Tookie (a vicious killer) to death after 26 eyars of trials, at least give Jack Doff and your boy Harry their day in Court.
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:01 pmKillCon,
Thanks for the Vidal posts. I’m surprised it failed to mention that he and Al Gore are relatives :) (they are cousins I think).
He has some very potent things to say and was surprised that his last few books were published at all in this country (they almost weren’t – except that greed usually wins and teh neocons will do anything to make a buck, including cut their own throats).
Vidal was partly living in Italy, but I recently heard that he sold hi villa is again a full-time resident of California and is intending another political run. If he weren’t gay, I think he might have gone a lot farther than he has, sadly enough, as openly gay politicians are not highly electable (except maybe in Los Angeles… :)
Let’s not forget Noam Chomsky either. Everyone should read Manufacturing Consent as well.
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:04 pmSane Liberal = NeD back from the dead.
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:07 pm#111 – when you admit to being completely detached from reality, then we can help you. I am sure Jacky boy is guilty – he funded Harry Reid so that pretty much proves he’s guilty. But considering liberals like you cry over putting Tookie (a vicious killer) to death after 26 eyars of trials, at least give Jack Doff and your boy Harry their day in Court.
Comment by Sane Liberal — January 3, 2006 @ 2:01 pm
Okay I-RIGHT-I, this is definitely you. You’ve said tose very same things before as your IRI persona…
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:07 pmyou can’t argue that you people detached from reality, so argue over who I really am? Maybe I’m Scotty Mc
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:09 pmAdorno’s defenders reply to his positivist and neoconservative critics by pointing to his extensive numerical and empirical research, notably the “F-scale” in his work on Fascist tendencies in individual personalities in The Authoritarian Personality. And in fact, quantitative research using questionnaires and other tools of the modern sociologist was in full use at Adorno’s Institute for Social Research.
Adorno also argued that the authoritarian personality would, of course, use culture and its consumption to exert social control, but that such control is inherently degrading to those who are subjected to it, and instead such personalities would project their own fear of loss of control on to society as a whole.
No shit!
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:13 pmWhat a vicious product of the neocon right we have here trolling. He is to be marginalized as he is obviously extremely angry and hateful. I know why he is angry though.
We aren’t any safer than when Bush came into office and NYC still doesn’t even have new radios for the firemen. Hell, he can’t even help his own people during a disaster. I would be angry too if I voted for unintelligence to lead us into war. Mediocre in the WH, mediocre out of the WH. What did they expect? I knew he was stupid.
Who feels safer now?
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:14 pmas openly gay politicians are not highly electable (except maybe in Los Angeles… :)
It’s OK if they are Republicans!
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:15 pmI think it’s NeD. He is so angry but has yet to start the racism. That seems to be the biggest difference between NeD and IRI. NeD is viciously angry and hateful. IRI is an obvious racist and can’t hide it for long. NeD won’t post here anymore because we chided him about his ridiculous 70s mustache.
A word to the trolls, don’t post pictures of yourself unless you are sure you want us to see them.
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:17 pmunbelievable …I wish to god I knew how to get the RepublicanDemocratic party going… Who among us has the intelligence to think and talk like Jefferson and the trust of the people that Jefferson as one of the founding fathers had???
Who has done something totally selfless for America and swears allegiance to no party other than America itself?
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:23 pmVidal explains the “problem.”
CP: Clearly Bush does represent something radical and new, and there’s been an understandable tendency on the part of people who don’t like where the country is going to focus their outrage exclusively on Bush and the Republicans. But don’t the media and the Democrats come in for a great deal of blame for creating the political vacuum in which he rose?
Vidal: Well, the media is on the other side. The media belongs to the big money, and the big money, their candidates, their party, is the Republican Party as now constituted. So everybody is behaving typically [in media]. What isn’t typical is a Democratic Party that has also sold out. There are just as many lobbyists and propagandists there as on the other side. They’re never going to regain anything until they remember that they’re supposed to represent the people at large, and not the very rich.
But they need the very rich in order to be able to run for office, to buy television time. I’d say if you really want to date the crash of the American system, the American republic, it was in the early ’50s, when television suddenly emerged as the central fact of American life. That which was not televised did not exist. And any preacher, because religion is tax-free–I would tax all the religions, by the way–any evangelical who wants to get up there and say, send me millions of dollars and I will cure you of your dandruff, he gets to spend the money any way he likes, and there’s no tax on it. So he can have political action groups, which he’s not supposed to have but does have. So you have all that religious money, and then you have the enormous cost of campaigning, which means every politician who wants to buy TV time has got to sell his ass to somebody. And corporate America is ready to buy.
Just like Madison wanted. Tax the churches.
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:25 pmIF you want to clean up politics, not just individual criminal politicians, then outlaw the Political Action Committees; PACS. It’s so simple. PACs were made legal during RR’s term. They legalized bribery. If you legalize bribery, it takes over. Our Congress is in the pocket of the PACs. Eliminate the PAC, you eliminate the pocket, you might get our country back. The problem is, the only people who can criminalze PACs are the people in the PAC’s pockets. How can such a hold be broken? I have NO IDEA.
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:28 pm#91
Sane Liberal – a.k.a. I-RIGHT-I, The only thing your venomous, partisan ranting proves…[...](snip bullshit)
Go find a nice right-wing blog to spew your venom at and leave this thread to the real freedom loving Americans.
Comment by M. Duchamp
I haven’t read Sane’s post but it must be good if you have us confused! For the record: I don’t use any other handle but this one.
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:37 pmunbelievable …I wish to god I knew how to get the RepublicanDemocratic party going… Who among us has the intelligence to think and talk like Jefferson and the trust of the people that Jefferson as one of the founding fathers had???
Who has done something totally selfless for America and swears allegiance to no party other than America itself?
Comment by Gerald Gibson — January 3, 2006 @ 2:23 pm
Unfortunately the invention of the television has done considerable damage to our culture. People used to get together and talk to one another. Now, if they get together at all, it’s around television events like the Super Bowl, the Academy Awards, and the sort. I my last office before I left Corporate America, the subjects du jour were American Idol, Survivor and which ever string of dating disaster shows running amok…
I read in a St. Petersburg (Russia) paper that the avergae person usually doesn’t instigate Revolution until people are dying in the streets. But in this country, filled with people who hardly leave their livingrooms, how would we ever know?
I don’t know how to fight the apathy or start a non-violent revolution. I was hoping you might. But, maybe if we all keep talking about it and reading on the subject, we might find some answers.
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:37 pmOkay I-RIGHT-I, this is definitely you. You’ve said tose very same things before as your IRI persona…
Comment by unbelievable
Nope, but I’d say Sane’s presence bodes ill for the ratbastardcommiemofos around here. Hey, maybe you’d like a threesome?
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:42 pmIF you want to clean up politics, not just individual criminal politicians, then outlaw the Political Action Committees; PACS. It’s so simple. PACs were made legal during RR’s term. They legalized bribery. If you legalize bribery, it takes over. Our Congress is in the pocket of the PACs. Eliminate the PAC, you eliminate the pocket, you might get our country back. The problem is, the only people who can criminalze PACs are the people in the PAC’s pockets. How can such a hold be broken? I have NO IDEA.
Comment by Solitaire — January 3, 2006 @ 2:28 pm
Excellent – simple always sounds good to me :).
We’re all here instead of infront of the idiot box… surely we can put our heads together and figure this out.
Okay, I’m a bit ignorant on this… So, what do you know about how PACs came into existence? Perhaps their undoing is in their doing, so to speak?
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:45 pmI haven’t read Sane’s post but it must be good if you have us confused! For the record: I don’t use any other handle but this one.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 3, 2006 @ 2:37 pm
Yes you do… I’ve even caught you read handed when you forgot to unlock your CAps lock for your myriad of pretend Neocon posters. And isn’t it a bit too coincidental you show up now that we’ve been talking about you? Why not simultaneously (though in the future we will be suspicious of that tactic)?
You wish there were that many of you…
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:48 pmNope, but I’d say Sane’s presence bodes ill for the ratbastardcommiemofos around here. Hey, maybe you’d like a threesome?
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 3, 2006 @ 2:42 pm
I won’t date you, why would I date you and your Alter-ego?
But I’m sure your and your dual-personality freak show circus could get lucky at a ventroliquist dummy store… Isn’t that where you met your blow up doll after all?
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:53 pmBut they need the very rich in order to be able to run for office, to buy television time. I’d say if you really want to date the crash of the American system, the American republic, it was in the early ’50s, when television suddenly emerged as the central fact of American life.
Just like Madison wanted. Tax the churches.
Comment by KillCon2006 — January 3, 2006 @ 2:25 pm
So, if We the People own air time, and by law the Corporate Cable Companies have to provide free air time and use of equipment via local cable stations, then maybe that’s an opportunity. I learned about this in San Francisco and actually looked into it a bit. You have to take classes (always a catch) to learn to work the equipment, butit’s relatively cheap enough, and once you know how, they have to air your production, uncensored, on their public service channel. If the show is interesting enough… people WILL watch it.
There’s also the circulation of the internet to consider as a resource. We just have to be clever – and entertaining, and people will want to watch…
Remember those underground videos that some college boys made of bums fighting? (It was some sick and inhumane stuff), but unless we spun that into Politicians fighting… I don’t know if American would watch…. We really have sunk as a society. No wonder we have fallen to seventh place in education…
January 3rd, 2006 at 3:01 pmYes you do… I’ve even caught you read handed when you forgot to unlock your CAps lock for your myriad of pretend Neocon posters. And isn’t it a bit too coincidental you show up now that we’ve been talking about you? Why not simultaneously (though in the future we will be suspicious of that tactic)?
You wish there were that many of you…
Comment by unbelievable
Nope, not me. One is quite enough and I’m sure you agree. Besides, why would I want to share all this hate and hostility with a sock puppet? I show up when I show up, just like you.
January 3rd, 2006 at 3:05 pmUnbelievable, Congress passed a law. Basically, they decided to allow corporations (and other special interest orgs like labor unions) to collect money from their employees and donate it to politicians “on their behalf”. Would it surprise anyone that the corporations do not contribute to politicians who are sponsoring legislation that would benefit their employees, but instead they contribute the money to support politicians that vote in a way that will benefit the corporation’s bottom line? They send the money before or after the vote, doesn’t much matter. The money just “shows up” in the politician’s account. It’s legal. Totally legal as long as you don’t have any silly e-mails showing quid-pro-quo, things like: “I’ll vote to give your company this special tax break if you send my account 10,000 bucks”… or worse. That’s why it’s so hard to prosecute these guys! They claim, quite rightly, that “everybody does it”. Everybody does do it and they whine that they cannot get re-elected without it. The problem is, the PACs send most of the money to encumbants who are currently voting their way in Congress. That leaves the encumbants with all of the advantage in an election, and it leaves most challengers swinging in the wind. It leaves the American people without any real control over their representatives, and it leave poor people out in the cold because they don’t have PACs.
January 3rd, 2006 at 3:06 pmSure, it should be changed, and the PAC lawyers/politicians were so afraid that it might be changed that they had a PAC strictly for the purpose of lobbying against the removal of PACs. But soon they realized they didn’t need it… the system is self-perpetuating, .. so they disbanded that PAC in the late 70’s. It’s a self-perpetuating closed system of political bribery.
I miss Ryan…
January 3rd, 2006 at 3:12 pmSure, it should be changed, and the PAC lawyers/politicians were so afraid that it might be changed that they had a PAC strictly for the purpose of lobbying against the removal of PACs. But soon they realized they didn’t need it… the system is self-perpetuating, .. so they disbanded that PAC in the late 70’s. It’s a self-perpetuating closed system of political bribery.
Comment by Solitaire — January 3, 2006 @ 3:06 pm
The owner of a firm I used to work for went around handing $100 bills to people so they could donate that $100 to the campaign of a local politician who supported his agenda. I’ve seen it live, even if on a smaller scale, so I do understand what you’re saying.
Who is in charge of writing bills? How exactly does that process begin? And would it be a matter of pressing law makers into signing a new bill by the constituents to undo a prior law? Isn’t our public outrage the only thing we have left going for us against legislation?
Thanks for all the ed-ju-ma-cation!
January 3rd, 2006 at 3:18 pmI miss Ryan…
Comment by SKdeA — January 3, 2006 @ 3:12 pm
I saw him yesterday or the day before… I figured he just took a holiday break.
January 3rd, 2006 at 3:20 pmNope, not me. One is quite enough and I’m sure you agree. Besides, why would I want to share all this hate and hostility with a sock puppet? I show up when I show up, just like you.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 3, 2006 @ 3:05 pm
For the same reason you want a dumb blonde – you always want to be right, and what better gurantee of that than to possess an object that resembles a human, but without the vocal chords or the brain.
Are you actually angry? I always read you as a bit of a smart-ass. Should I ramp it up to Ted Stevens defending his pork-barrel bridge angry?
January 3rd, 2006 at 3:23 pmSane Liberal,
Please define the attributes by which you define yourself as “liberal.”
My basis for same is that I believe wealth and power cannot police themselves and that government of the people, by the people, and for the people, needs to legislate controls on the strong so that they do not exploit and ultimately destroy the weak.
The right to criticize authority, to think and act as I want at all times unless infringing on another’s safety, free speech, a healthy middle class, workplace protections, meaningful checks on corporate malfeasance, transparency in the awarding of government contracts, equal access to services for all Americans regardless of wealth, an informed citizenry… these beliefs make me an unapologetic liberal. A true Sane Liberal.
What makes you a liberal?
January 3rd, 2006 at 3:29 pmGovernment of the People, by the People, for the People sounds good. Even if it once was within reach, it certainly is no longer true. We have government of the people, by the PACS, for the corporations. I would have thought that people on the far right would resent that as much as any other American, but instead they saw their chance to buy their way into power, and now they have conveniently forgotten what democracy means, and instead have begun to worship two separate but equal golden calves; money and power.
January 3rd, 2006 at 3:39 pmbut instead they saw their chance to buy their way into power, and now they have conveniently forgotten what democracy means, and instead have begun to worship two separate but equal golden calves; money and power.
Comment by Solitaire
Nonsense, what you are describing is the fallen human condition. But what the hey, better us than the Filthy Left. Oh, wait…dang, almost forgot. The corporations are run by Liberals for the most part and that’s not too far removed from the Filthy Left. I guess the people you really should be concerned about are in your corner.
January 3rd, 2006 at 3:56 pmThe right to criticize authority, to think and act as I want at all times unless infringing on another’s safety, free speech, a healthy middle class, workplace protections, meaningful checks on corporate malfeasance, transparency in the awarding of government contracts, equal access to services for all Americans regardless of wealth, an informed citizenry… these beliefs make me an unapologetic liberal. A true Sane Liberal.
What makes you a liberal?
Comment by gun toting liberal
You forgot to mention the free ride you’d like me to provide for you. You forgot to mention the unencumbered freedom to make me as poor as your beloved ghetto voters. You forgThe right to criticize authority, to think and act as I want at all times unless infringing on another’s safety, free speech, a healthy middle class, workplace protections, meaningful checks on corporate malfeasance, transparency in the awarding of government contracts, equal access to services for all Americans regardless of wealth, an informed citizenry… these beliefs make me an unapologetic liberal. A true Sane Liberal.
What makes you a liberal?
Comment by gun toting liberal
You forgot to mention the free ride you’d like me to provide for you. You forgot to mention the unencumbered freedom to make me as poor as your beloved ghetto voters. You forgot to mention the love of a murder’s life and the hate for a yet to be born innocent. There’s so much more to being Liberal you forgot to mention. What you did mention just happens to be the kinds of things conservatives love as well. Try again.
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:02 pmot to mention the love of a murder’s life and the hate for a yet to be born innocent. There’s so much more to being Liberal you forgot to mention. What you did mention just happens to be the kinds of things conservatives love as well. Try again.
I miss Ryan…
Comment by SKdeA — January 3, 2006 @ 3:12 pm
I saw him yesterday or the day before… I figured he just took a holiday break.
Comment by unbelievable
My guess is he and some of his butt buddies are attending that “Broke Back Mountain” marathon in SF.
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:05 pmI-R-I: You sound like that kid in the schoolyard “I’m rubber, you’re glue…”
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:05 pmNot worth a reply.
and now they have conveniently forgotten what democracy means, and instead have begun to worship two separate but equal golden calves; money and power.
Comment by Solitaire — January 3, 2006 @ 3:39 pm
I think it’s called ‘Capitalism’… the modern equivalent of ‘Communism’
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:05 pmNonsense, what you are describing is the fallen human condition. But what the hey, better us than the Filthy Left.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 3, 2006 @ 3:56 pm
Stop with this nonsense. Humanity is as humanity has always been. You want some idealized version to worship and blame it’s destruction for this mess. The mess is the system. Close the loopholes in the system and stop stoning humans for being human… It makes more sense.
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:08 pm#82
Exactly what does your name calling add to the point of the discussion…based on your comments it would seem to me that you are in favor of political corruption as long as it is done by a strong on terrorism Republican ??
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:09 pmMy guess is he and some of his butt buddies are attending that “Broke Back Mountain†marathon in SF.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 3, 2006 @ 4:05 pm
Hurt that you weren’t invited, I see…
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:09 pmthe hate for a yet to be born innocent.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 3, 2006 @ 4:02 pm
So you would have fought to defend the innocent fetuses of Hitler (his mom wanted an abortion), Ted Bundy (I think his abandoned him as a little kid), Pol Pot, Mussolini, Stalin, Franco, Charles Manson, etc…?
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:12 pmIRI is obviously just a kid on the computer. We should not reply to him. I love a good back and forth on issues, but this guy is obviously an extreme racist. He is very angry and very hateful. He is homophobic and not very intelligent. Please, ignore this one in particular.
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:13 pmIRI is obviously just a kid on the computer. We should not reply to him. I love a good back and forth on issues, but this guy is obviously an extreme racist. He is very angry and very hateful. He is homophobic and not very intelligent. Please, ignore this one in particular.
Comment by progressive and proud — January 3, 2006 @ 4:13 pm
He’s fun to play with when no one else is around. But, from the posts above, we got some positive stuff accomplished today. We agree on a bipartisan need for Campaign Reform. We just need to figure out how to get it all started… Please let us know if you have any suggestions at this point as it’s all brain storming right now.
Though I’m thinking that starting another ‘group’ might not be effective. There are very many now in existence as it is. Perhaps there’s a way to tap into those existing coalitions on a broader scale so we can communicate diversely and across the board with more people at the same time… Hmmm…
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:18 pmPerhaps capitalism and democracy could co-exist, but I have seen that when the money takes over, democracy doesn’t stand much of a chance. We are seeing the result in all the headlines today. So many of our founding fathers and those astute leaders going forward warned us about political corruption. They tried to make laws to stop it, but one little crack in the form of a PAC law showed money an exploitable opportunity to insert itself and gradually undermine our venerated democratic institutions. I believe that the problem is the PAC law and a voter base that has no idea what PACs are doing to their system.
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:19 pmProgressive and Proud… ok with me. Waste of time.
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:21 pmSolitaire – We need to replace Capitalism with Humanism. I just don’t know if the system has to implode first or if there are other avenues for making change before we self-destruct…
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:44 pmI hear a lot of nonsense around here, but the idea that “the corporations are run by liberals” was too, too hilarious – almost made me choke up a lung.
This is so funny I had to remember to breathe, then I realized its really quite tragic.
Right wingers really believe that liberals such as me, working 50 hours a week to support my family, want everyone to get a “free ride.” It’s true in one sense – I want those durned corporate hippies to stop getting a free ride and pay their taxes. It’s our nation’s rule of law and respect for democracy as a people that makes commerce possible. These were only achieved through social welfare legislation.
Read your history. The new deal was established to thwart a potential worker’s revolution. The fatcats were glutted with caviar and the family man was feeding his shoes to his children. That’s the right-wing paradise we’re headed for. Free ride? Honestly.
Do your homework. Start with a search on “corporate welfare.” Want to stop free rides? Start with agribusiness and billionaires who pay no taxes.
Such ignorance of how power works. I suppose these right wingers agreed with J.E. Hoover that Martin Luther King was a dangerous subversive, since he fought for ordinary people’s rights.
Corporations run by liberals. What does a sane person say to THAT?
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:28 pm1st fun…
Hmmm… did you also notice that Sherman (I live in Milwaukee) was fired today too. Hmmm.. I betcha it was Jack.
2wo.. asskickin….
Just kick thir asses GTL. Just kick thier asses. You tote a gun, I’ll get into fistcuffs with these weak minded, sheep-ucking Bush apologists anyday. (And have.)
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:13 pmSo you would have fought to defend the innocent fetuses of Hitler (his mom wanted an abortion), Ted Bundy (I think his abandoned him as a little kid), Pol Pot, Mussolini, Stalin, Franco, Charles Manson, etc…?
Comment by unbelievable
That’s your argument? I thought you were trying to make me think you were half-smart instead of half assed?
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:33 pmI think the NSA is messing with this blog.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:28 pmWell, I found a pretty brief history of campaign finance laws that shows the gradual buildup of anti-bribery laws, and their sudden disintegration in the 70’s, on a CNN site today. On the left of this link’s page, under “interactive”
January 4th, 2006 at 11:10 amhttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/03/opinion/courtwatch/main1176102_page2.shtml
One minute, corporate money was illegal, the next, it was legal. That was the minute that Congress sold us down the river.
Corporations run by liberals. What does a sane person say to THAT?
Comment by gun toting liberal
I guess that would depend upon how informed or ignorant he is. I take it you just don’t know the facts. I’m betting you prefer to stay ignorant of them too but just in case…
Take a look at the Blue States and the big cities that give the Democrats power and tell me who lives there besides poor negroes. Up town are the power elite of this country and they don’t run mom and pop burger stands. They run fortune 500 companies, sit on each other’s boards and make up America’s aristocracy. They are the power behind government and they are not in any way shape or form conservatives unless it is the conservation of power you are talking about.
FACT: In many election years, Fortune 500 contributions to the campaigns of Democrats outweigh Fortune 500 contributions to the campaigns of Republicans AND Libertarians COMBINED!!! In EVERY year, corporate contributions to non-profit “leftist” organizations are more than TRIPLE their contributions to non-profit free-market organizations.
http://www.capitalresearch.org/
I could go on about Liberals and big business but you’re not listening anyway. That’s OK, stay stuck on stupid and see if I care.
January 4th, 2006 at 11:50 amThe Rethugs have threatened to “go nuclear” (I can even pronounce the word correctly) for a long time. Now it’s finally happening. The Abramoff scandal, coupled with the mountain of lies of the White House, will prove a classic example of nuclear fission. If the Rethugs thought 2005 was bad–whoa!–2006 is going to be mondo destructo!
January 4th, 2006 at 12:14 pmWell, I found a pretty brief history of campaign finance laws that shows the gradual buildup of anti-bribery laws, and their sudden disintegration in the 70’s, on a CNN site today. On the left of this link’s page, under “interactiveâ€
http://www.cbsnews.com/ stories/ 2006/ 01/ 03/ opinion/ courtwatch/ main1176102_page2.shtml
One minute, corporate money was illegal, the next, it was legal. That was the minute that Congress sold us down the river.
Comment by Solitaire — January 4, 2006 @ 11:10 am
Awesome – thanks so much. I will read it. I think this is important to know, because if we can pressure Congress to repeal bills, maybe your idea to eliminate the PACs will be a possibility.
January 4th, 2006 at 1:18 pmThat’s your argument? I thought you were trying to make me think you were half-smart instead of half assed?
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 3, 2006 @ 9:33 pm
Yep, and a valid one you didn’t answer directly… just the usual insult and accompanying dance around it.
By the way, I’m not trying to impress you. And I can’t make you do anything you don’t already want to do. Think whatever you want. It matters not.
January 4th, 2006 at 1:23 pmTake a look at the Blue States and the big cities that give the Democrats power and tell me who lives there besides poor negroes. Up town are the power elite of this country and they don’t run mom and pop burger stands. They run fortune 500 companies, sit on each other’s boards and make up America’s aristocracy. They are the power behind government and they are not in any way shape or form conservatives unless it is the conservation of power you are talking about.
What do you do, make this stuff up? Or is there some pretense you plagerize from the neocon handbook of ignorance?
The last two architecture firms I worked for in California were run by Republicans. Everyone else was liberal except the people at the top. The last architecture CEO I worked for who was a liberal was barely getting by because he cared more about the environmental issues and paying his staff a living wage…
As a teacher, most of my colleagues are liberal. Quite a few left Corporate America to do something that didn’t require inhuman behavior.
Most of my friends are liberal and they are mostly artists, in the medical profession, teachers and educators, or desperately trying to get out of Corporate America because they hate it.
Liberals don’t do Corporate America. Get real.
January 4th, 2006 at 1:29 pm#60 I refuse to believe you are that stupid, NeD.
January 4th, 2006 at 3:35 pm#126 – Is that how your mother talks to you? Is that what makes you so hateful and mean? You are the bully in school weren’t you? Really, do you talk to your mom like that?
January 4th, 2006 at 3:41 pm“Bringin’ in th’ thieves,
January 5th, 2006 at 9:09 amBringin’ in th’ thieves,
We shall all rejoice in…
bringin’ in th’ thieves.”
Liberals don’t do Corporate America. Get real.
Comment by unbelievable
They do if they like to eat and some of them eat very well. You’re real trouble is that you don’t really know anyone. Oh, and teachers don’t count as “anyone”, get real.
January 6th, 2006 at 6:15 pmThey do if they like to eat and some of them eat very well. You’re real trouble is that you don’t really know anyone. Oh, and teachers don’t count as “anyoneâ€, get real.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 6, 2006 @ 6:15 pm
You’ve wrapped yourself in your white aryan WASP cocoon so tightly that you’ve managed to cut off the blood supply to your brain…
Because I do not exclude, as you do so profoundly, it’s sheer common sense that I would know far more people than you. But, if you had common sense in the first place, you’d never have wrapped yourself in a cocoon to begin with…
January 6th, 2006 at 9:13 pm