McClellan Indicates Administration Won’t Cooperate With Congressional Hearings On Domestic Spying
McClellan Indicates Administration Won’t Cooperate With Congressional Hearings On Domestic Spying
Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA), the chairman of the Senate judiciary committee, has pledged to hold congressional hearings on Bush’s warrantless domestic spying program. At today’s press briefing, Scott McClellan made it pretty clear that administration officials wouldn’t cooperate:
Q And my question is, does the White House take this into account, will it try to talk to them, will it participate in the hearings?
MR. McCLELLAN: Like I said, and the President has said we’ve briefed members of Congress on more than a dozen occasions.
Q But that’s not what they’re talking about.
MR. McCLELLAN: And in terms of discussions about this, the President talked about this at his end-of-the-year news conference. We shouldn’t be talking about intelligence activities, particularly in a time of war, in a public way. This is a highly classified authorization –
Q Not anymore. I mean, it’s public now.
MR. McCLELLAN: No, it still is. It still is highly classified. The President has talked in a very limited way about the nature of this authorization and what it’s designed to do, and how it’s limited. And so we will continue to talk with members of Congress —
Q Will you cooperate with a congressional hearing?
MR. McCLELLAN: — the Attorney General has been talking to additional members of Congress about this authorization, so that they do understand why this tool is so vital in our efforts to prevail in the global war on terrorism.
Q But will you cooperate with a hearing?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, I’m not going to get into talking about ruling things in or out from this podium. We’ll talk with members of Congress and make sure that they’re briefed and kept informed, as we have been.
This is whole problem. The administration doesn’t recognize that Congress has a role in overseeing the executive branch. They only want to inform Congress on their terms. That’s not oversight, that’s a lecture.
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Judd,
Presumably any such hearings would be in closed session because they would involve sensitive national security issues. So even if hearings are held, the chances of any average citizen getting any information on domestic spying is probably slim to none. I would imagine that before the Administration would agree to public hearings on this issue, they would risk comtempt of Congress and have the issue before the Federal Courts
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:39 pmDoes congress have the authority to force the administration to participate? Hope so.
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:39 pmjust more reasons to impeach.
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:41 pmImpeach chimpy now.
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:42 pmI heard someone on the radio today use the phrase “intellectually honest” in describing those who are opposed to this secret spying, of course implying that all others are dishonest. I think that’s a great way to put it: intellectual honesty. Who could possibly link the words of McClellan with intellectual honesty?
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:42 pmCan they understand the word IMPEACHMENT?
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:42 pmFascist is as fascist does.
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:43 pmJudd, great post.
This kind of thing needs to be on the evening news (with subtitles and accompanying explanations, of course).
BTW, what’s a lecuture? is that French– le cuture?
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:46 pmAs long as the Monarchy can stonewall through the November elections (and September 11 especially), they can paint themselves as our protectors and the reason “we haven’t been hit.”
Has anyone noticed that the Monarch sounds more and more like Cheney the Terrible as of late?
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:47 pm#7 says it all….has the USA ever witnessed such blatant fascism?
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:49 pmSIGN THIS PETITION: http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html
Only through getting our voting rights back can we restore the Constitutional balance of our government, and PROSECUTE the lying traitors whose oaths are giggling attacks on freedom itself.
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:50 pmIs there any doubt now that we have a dictator and fascist in charge of this government. I think it is time for a change in the leadership of this government. President Bush is a danger to this country, a traitor and a public enemy. Any means ought to be used to disposses him from office. Should he not be jailed and placed on trial? Should he not face the severest penalty under the law for his treason? Should not the Republican party not be out-lawed as was the Baath Party?
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:52 pm1) When did Americans become such wimps?
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:53 pm2) This administration is too incompetent to
protect anyone from anything.
3) Why don’t be have OBL yet?
4) Commander codpiece should first try reading
his PDBs, asking questions and holding people
responsible, i.e., stop hiding in Crawford
playing in the bushes.
The Republican-controlled Congress isn’t going to have meaningful hearings on this. Anyone who still has an open mind on whether or not Bush broke the law is probably a moderate Republican who needs to ride Bush’s fear-mongering coattails to get re-elected. And of course, as Judd points out, Bush won’t let them have any meaningful hearings even if they wanted to.
The judicial branch won’t be of much use in checking Bush’s power either once Alito is on the bench. Everyone got all fired up over the “family values” nonsense and missed the real issue just like they did with Roberts. Both nominations were about preserving unchecked executive power. The Republicans in power don’t care about abortion or gays. In fact, they would like to keep the status quo so that they and their supporters have an enemy to complain about. Just like Bush’s expanded powers need a permanent war on terrorism and Arabs as the enemy as justification, a permanent Republican majority needs gays and feminists as enemies as justification.
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:57 pmHere’s a question for the lawyers out there with relevant expertise–
what if someone filed a suit in federal court against the government and his wireless, cable and internet providers, asking for an injunction against having his or her communications tapped? Would it be dismissed on some national security grounds? What if the suit was just against the cable/internet/phone companies that pledge to keep this information private except in enumerated circumstances?
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:57 pmyet another stonewall from Bush & Co.
that’s how you hang onto power – refuse all requests and deny everything…
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:58 pm#14,
I’m afraid you have that completely correct.
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:59 pmAccording to the Washington Post, Cheney and Rumsfeld are not losing any sleep over alleged civil rights abuses, since they have both recently purchased multimillion dollar homes in St. Michael’s, Maryland where they can get away from the pressures of Washington and relax.
In a micro sense they are making sure that they have their “freedom” on Maryland’s Eastern Shore and will let all of us argue about constitutional freedoms and invasion of privacy.
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:59 pmHmmm, not going to cooperate, who would have figured? SO much for oversight. SO much for the constitution.
For supporters of this adminsitration I have asimple questions…based on the way this adminstration interprets their powers they really can, if they chose to, suspend the electoral process because in the administrations mind congress gave the the power to do anything to perpetrate, oops prosecute the war on terror. So if they feel that the elections are impeding their efforts they can suspend them. Woudl you still support the adminsitration if they did this? I think you would.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:03 pmI fail to understand how what you bolded justifies the sensationalistic headline. We all know that GB will bob and weave around the hearings, but from what Scooter Mac said, I’m just not seeing the admission of noncooperativity. “We’ll talk to members of Congress” sounds like cooperation to me (even though we all know it won’t happen).
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:08 pmI may sound paranoid, here, but has anyone else thought that with Bush’s brand of power hunger, he might somehow try to usurp ANY further (executive) election? I know that seems far-fetched, but I just don’t see this guy giving anything up.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:10 pmsorry, Mark, I guess you already typed out my fears while I was still pecking around on my keyboard. Kinda nice to think someone else is thinking it, though.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:12 pmIs your sense, my friends out there in the blogosphere, that the public is awakening to their civic duty and is readying to take the reigns of power from their “elected officials” and begin real grassroots efforts to thwart the fascist impulse loose in the land today?
Or will people vaguely register some awareness of yet another “the dems said this, the repubs said that” controversy and promptly switch over to the new season of American Idol?
Shame on the populace for buying into 20 + years of “government is the problem” rhetoric from the Right as they usurped more and more of the actual government.
When was the last time a Republican blamed the problems of the nation on government? They can’t anymore since they own the whole thing, lock, stock, and barrel.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:14 pmHannity is on the radio today claiming that this wiretapping is done under executive privilege and that’s all you need to know.During time of war,and Congress authorized this war, the Pres. should do whatever he needs to do to keep us ((safe/in the dark/uninformed/stupid)pick one and only one)).
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:18 pmSo there you have it,any further discussion is a waste of breath,I mean, electrons.
Scotty’s comments today reflect their opening gambit: We’re not playing. It’s secret. Screw. This is ALWAYS their opening position. Same thing with Condi and the 9/11 commission. We all know how that turned out. They had to cave, she blew a bunch of smoke, and the nation yawned. Maybe they can maintain the stonewall this time, maybe not. Depends on public opinion, and especially, on Arlen Specter’s intestinal fortitude. If he convenes hearings, the admistration loses control over the situation. Even if the administration doesn’t cooperate, they still have to worry about people like Comey, and even Ashcroft, who are no longer part of the administration. What are these ex-DOJ people going to do? Plead the fifth? Not likely.
One other point: People with knowledge of the program have already talked (obviously), and if the current DOJ investigation starts targetting these individuals for criminal prosecution, what happens then? The whistleblowers will have a choice:
a) hunker down and get chewed up by the prosecutors, or
b) pull an Ollie North and say “damn right I did it, and I’d do it again in a second.”
We’ll see.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:22 pmWe are not at war. Congress never declared war.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:23 pmSounds like Bush wants to be impeached.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:23 pmWe aren’t at war. Congress never authorized the War Powers Act. What they did was grant bushco some lattitude in going after the 9/11 folks. Warrentless spying wasn’t approved.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:26 pm#21 Yeah I see that happening. I see Bush declaring that he MUST remain president to continue to protect us and therefore he is going to delay the next presidential elections.
After all, we are so unsafe unless he protects us right?
This terrorist thing is such a LIE and is intended to make people cower in a corner. We will always be under attack, and we always have been so why is such an issue being made now? Just so we can keep the rich rich and the poor poorer. It’s all about the money and nothing else. Its not about our safety. Its about the green backs.
I dare for any republican here to state how we are safer? We have less money, less border control, less response capability to a catastrophy, and less ability to get support from the world. Tell me how, just how, we are more safe? Don’t give me the usual “we have not had an attack since 2001.” It was 9 years from the last WTC attack, so that has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Common Republicans, tell me how we are safer? How are we better off now? How are we more economically better? How we are doing so well when there are over 600000 people alone from NO that is out of work and homeless. Talk to me, common… Tell me…. Bring it on!
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:32 pmWe are not at war. There was no declaration, because his premptive war would not meet any requirements tto declare war.
If there is no impeachment hearing, we need to make a very large and concerted effort to show up in Washington to protest this do-nothing rubber stamp congress and the Bush toadies.
Perhaps a million or so really angry voters might get them to listen and act like they care about this country instead of the corporations that now run it.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:35 pmMay I?; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Resolution_to_Authorize_the_Use_of_United_States_Armed_Forces_Against_Iraq
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:38 pm#26 Spudge:
Yeah, but just remember had that “Joint Resolution” got torqued out of shape during Vietnam. First Cambodia, then the secret wiretaps on the NYT. “Undeclared wars” just seem to be an invitation to Executive abuse.
It’s 1969 all over again — at least in Dubya’s mind.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:42 pmRemove Bush,
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:44 pmThanks. I don’t feel “better” but it is nice to know that both you and Mark have had the same terrifying thought.
My daughter just asked what would happen if he DID do that.
Any thoughts? Do you think people would finally get it then?
RunningDogLackey,
I don’t disagree one bit. I was just offering info. I like for our side to have all of the facts.
Just like Rep. John Murtha never said withdrawl, he said redeploy. All lefties need to use the term redeploy when talking about that subject.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:53 pmTrue Blue, I stated months ago that Bubble boy was stacking the Supreme Court with neocons that would allow him a third term.
For that very reason I’ve been saying IMPEACH all along!
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:56 pmSounds like Bush wants to be impeached, sounds like McClennen want Bushie to be impeached. He’s giving the American People no other choice.
That is too cool.
I opened a new tab in FireFox and pasted the wrong thing. I pasted “RunningDogLackey”
Which didn’t give me an error. It opened this page:
Cheney Approval Nearing Rock Bottom at 19%
I am sure it is something in my cache, but it is still cool otherwise.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:57 pmI am not very religious. However, I feel that a great prayer movement should be started in this country. Every freedom loving citizen should pray that Bush succumbs to a natural health problem and dies.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:58 pmHere is one “For Russia to make progress as a European nation, the Russian government must renew a commitment to democracy and the rule of law,” he told an audience in Brussels, headquarters of the 25-nation European Union and the NATO alliance . From his #43ness. 05/02/21
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:58 pmTrue Blue, I’m not sure but my fear is that the majority will just go along with it. :( I don’t see the country standing tall side by side. This country has become a country of sides and no longer a country of Americans. Thanks to this 2 party government we have put in place, we as Americans have divided ourselves.
Since the country is so divided, I doubt that the country as a whole would come together which is what it would take in a situation like that. So since the odds are very low that our country could go back to the belief of being an American and not Republican or Democrate I’m sorry to say that I believe we are in for a German Pre WW2 era.
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:01 pmFrom the Authorization:
Whereas the United States is detemined to prosecute the war on terrorism….
Whereas Congress has taken steps to pursue vigorously the war on terrorism….
Whereas the President has authority under the Constitution to take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism …
Hannity is plugged into the VRW machine and to the audience he’s asserting this as a use of Presidential power.
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:05 pmRemove Bush,
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:12 pmSobering thought.
But I guess I feared that very senario, otherwise I would have been able to answer my daughter’s question.
Her next one was, “Do you think he’d stop people from leaving the U.S.?”
Same prognosis, RemoveBush?
Spudge:
Forgive me — I wasn’t correcting you. I was just coming off a fresh read of some VN war history, and I hadn’t realized that the very same issues had followed the “Joint Resolution” in that case. I can see now why we haven’t had a “declared war” in 60 years — much more wiggle-room for the Prsiodent, much less culpability for the Congress.
Funny story about the cut-and-paste — I’m glad I link to something suitably subversive!
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:14 pmSusan,
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:17 pmI didn’t realize you “saw the light” way before I did.
How’s the protest prep going?
I ask you the same questions as RemoveBush.
Everyone, really.
I simply don’t see the vigor that I remember (OK, I was only 7 at the time) of the Nixon take-down.
Am I wrong?
#40
“Whereas the President has authority under the Constitution”
___
Someone should point out that’s “under,” not “over.”
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:17 pm“Whereas the President has authority under the Constitutionâ€
___
Someone should point out that’s “under,†not “over.â€
Comment by RunningDogLackey
GOOD ONE!!!
Now that post should be e-mailed to EVERY Congressman.
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:22 pmTrue Blue, sadley that is already happening. I was listening today to Air America, and a US citizen was denied the ability to fly to Ireland. He is a 1st generation Immigrant, and was held for 48 hours under questioning from the government. So sadley, the realization is already here about that.
Also, here in Detroit I was watching the news yesterday where a 3 or 5 year old was not allowed on the air plane because they were on a terrorist list.
Its only going to get worse from here on out unless we, as Americans, stand up and force our government to take action.
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:26 pm#15
In order to have hearing, there must be “tangible damage” to the plaintiff. The individual has to show how he or she was convicted by the government or damaged by the telecom due to the illegal wiretapping.
Which is why, the Bush Eunuchs are such traitors. Not only did they clearly break the law, they jeopardized the convictions of admitted terrorists all for more presidential power.
They sold out America so they could spy on America.
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:29 pmRepublican power whoring is America’s most deadly disease.
#43 True Blue:
I think there was a kind of long, slow percolation leading up to Watergate. It took a couple of key turns — like Dean’s defection — to really catch fire.
On the whole, I agree that the general level of public ambivalence seems higher…but that can change in a heartbeat.
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:33 pmThis whole flap is a joke, right? I mean, how else are we supposed to monitor the bad guys? Ask them to just notify us when they preparing to come after us?
You guys sound like you want the enemy to succeed. Not cool.
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:34 pmOMG, RemoveBush!
I only listen to Al Franken, only because I can’t get the station on Cape Cod. (They have affliates in Boston, ~ 90 miles away.)
You heard about elected officials on the list as well then, haven’t you? (Ted Kennedy was one)
We are really screwed here, aren’t we?
“Martial Law” could take down even Internet access. No talking to other people, sharing info, etc.
SCARY!
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:34 pmCC,
Too stupid cc. Come on, I can usually count on you to make at least a half ass attempt at a creditable argument.
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:38 pmThis whole flap is a joke, right? I mean, how else are we supposed to monitor the bad guys? Ask them to just notify us when they preparing to come after us?
You guys sound like you want the enemy to succeed. Not cool.
Comment by Concerned Conservative
By getting a court order, up to 72 hrs AFTER the fact.
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:39 pmEASY!!!
True Blue, yeah. Like Colin Powel is a threat to the US. As well as Jimmy Carter… So it is more than just about terrorists. It’s about POWER. PERIOD.
It would not supprise me to see Martial Law introduced soon. I Don’t have proof of this, and it is only a theory, but I think that NO was a test of how far the American people would allow the government to invoke Martial Law. After all, there were Non-Police officials going around and collecting peoples weapons. This is DIRECTLY agains the Constitutions “Right to bare arms”.
I hope that I am wrong, but it is all starting to make sense, much like how the WTC’s were Demolished and not brought down by the planes that hit them.
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:39 pm#52, make that 15 days when we are in a war. Since the WH likes to bring up that we are in a war, when it has not been officialy declared, then they would have 15 days. MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME.
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:41 pmJust because Bush and his glossy eyed followers want to fight a fake war on terrorism does not give him the right to break the law and wiretap US citizens.
There is no enemy. You are fighting shadows. Do you wake up in the morning scared of terrorists that are plotting to kill you. You are paranoid. You are more likely to be killed by a drunk driver, cancer or getting struck by lightning.
Do you cower in your basement all day worried about people and things trying to kill you?
Talk about wearing a tinfoil hat.
Scaredy cat.
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:42 pmSpudge, actually I agree that it is crazy to become paranoid about terrorists — but at the same time I’d like us to take prudent steps to prevent another 9/11. I still think this administration is not doing enough — though the surveillance is a good first step.
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:46 pmDenial, acceptance, and anger.Why should they acknowledge any argument. 3 or 4 delay tactics, take a little sample, respond only under pressure, then complain about the rules, the one’s they have set for themselves. Buying time. Did they learn diplomacy from Mike Tyson?
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:50 pmConcerned Conservative,
Then why do you back Bush? He could have taken the time to read his August 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Breifing which had the title “Bin Laden determined to attack in the US” and then went on to describe how they were getting airliner flight training, etc. etc.
Bush is an imbecile who couldn’t protect his nuts with a cup.
Also, nobody here is against wiretapping bad guys. It is when you start wiretapping US citizens ilegally that you get yourself in trouble. You get even more trouble when you go on TV and say “Yeah I did it and I would do it again”
Terrorism is just a way for the republican party to keep people in line. You are standing in that line. step out and do some research.
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:51 pmFirst of all Spudge, I don’t march lock-step with Bush. But on this one I think the admin. is on the money.
By all means let’s have hearings and we’ll see where the American people land on this one. The polls would indicate that they support eavesdropping — because they know it helps keep us safer.
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:57 pmactually I agree that it is crazy to become paranoid about terrorists —
Comment by Concerned Conservative — January 3, 2006 @ 6:46 pm
Good, we already have an initial agreement.
but at the same time I’d like us to take prudent steps to prevent another 9/11.
Another agreement; prudent being the key word here.
I still think this administration is not doing enough — though the surveillance is a good first step.
Wow, yet another agreement -with one caveat: Surveillance is indeed a good thing if done in compliance with the law. Pres. Bush shouldn’t even be arguing that he has the “constitutional powers” to personally order wiretaps of anyone, anywhere, anytime without oversight.
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:00 pmThe only reason any skewed poll would say people don’t mind “eavesdropping” is because like you, they think that only the “bad guys” are be “eavesdropped” on.
Do you even notice how you use soft terminology like “eavesdropping”? The term is ilegall wiretapping or domestic spying. The NSA spyed on US citizens. Some of the wiretaps were from communications that originated and terminated in the US with nothing going outside our borders. That is ilegall. Anybody who doesn’t think so deserves to lose all of their rights and should be shipped to a third world country.
My America will not end up like that.
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:03 pmCC, this kind of thinking is what is going to put us back to pre ww2 Germany with a Hitler type government. Do you really think that following the law is that difficult?
I know that the DEA does it almost every day and they do it real time just fine. So if they can obey the law and keep us safe from drugs, I’m sure that the President can monitor only terrorists without spying on American citizens.
This kind of thinking is what is going to lead us to the dark ages. You can’t have a government that runs amuck. Once you do allow that, then they will never stop (Just look at what is going on now).
If you are that scared then I suggest that you do like many people did during the cold war and build a bunker under your house and stay there. Otherwise, you need to be an American and hold you ground.
This terrorism is all a SCAM! It’s just to get people to allow for more rules to be broken. Immagine the president trying to do this if there was no 9/11? Would people allow it? I doubt it! 9/11 was a smoke screen to get the government to where they are today. This was planned, or allowed to happen, and allow the president to put into motions his continuous war plan and keep American citizens afraid of that unknown terroist. Have you heard from Osama lately? You won’t either, because we are not after any terrorists, we are only using the terror to allow for our civil liberties to be erroded away.
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:05 pmRemoveBush, what is the motive behind the wanton erosion of our civil liberties?
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:08 pmAMEN, Spudge!
OOOOHHH, those nasty Quakers talking about non-violence.
Those Greenpeace people, oooh, they’ve got to be WATCHED!!!
C’mon, CC, … you can’t really be for trouncing all over the 4th Amendment, can you?
Don’t you realize that by simply POSTING here you could be watched, ILLEGALLY, under dope-heads terms?
You want them investigating that New Year’s purchase at the packie? (oops. Liquor Store) How about what you buy @ the grocery store? (International Aisle… look out)
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:12 pmThis our RIGHTS!!!
Please explain how you feel losing our rights to a person who called the Constitution a “G-D piece of paper”is good, in any way.
I’m astounded, really, that there are people who STILL let this idiot RULE over them.
#63 – To have absolute power over everything. By controlling how things will be ran and when, then who is going to stand up to the government? If if is illegal to protest, such as what has been placed under the new law, this prevents people from standing up.
Don’t you notice how much of our rights have been removed in the name of terror? Pretty soon you won’t be able to vote, in say 10-15 years, and we will have a president that is just selected by ?
Isnt the first sign of civil liberties being erroded the fact that people are now limited and told who can protest?
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:27 pmFly-man,
Control. Nothing more, nothing less. It is all about control.
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:27 pmFly-man said:
RemoveBush, what is the motive behind the wanton erosion of our civil liberties?
Comment by the Fly-man — January 3, 2006 @ 7:08 pm
One word – Oil
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:39 pmI’d like to think that there’s a limit to what Bush backers would tolerate Bush doing in the name of fighting terrorism, even if it is illegal according to the law on the books.
I’m just not sure what that limit is. And I’m more and more afraid we’re going to find out there is, in fact, no limit. They have gotten the government they deserve. It’s truly a shame for the rest of us.
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:40 pm#66
And, I’ll say it again, as I believe someone else said here in an earlier post, POWER. Power = control, control = power.
David Brinkley, years ago on C-SPAN’s Booknotes, said that politicians do not go to Washington for the money…they go there for the power.
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:41 pmThanks, Spudge & RemoveBush, now if the President has this Nixonian absolute power mojo whammy in him what does he need to do with this power. The judiciary and especially the Senate have their own ideas of seperation of powers, so if it is in the best interest of the republic to trample on a few civil liberties what is the objective? Securing what?
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:42 pmI can’t believe the Democrats don’t even have the guts to call for a Special Prosecutor on this one. They have No guts whatsoever and deserve to be the minority party. They have let Bush/Cheney walk all over them from day one. The only way they would stand up is if the Republican desided to impeach Bush, which has about the same chance as a snowball in hell.
Please democrats, with a very very very small “d”, would you guys get so balls for once. If you can’t handle the truth, then don’t run for re-election. We need to get rid of these spineless jellyfish and get some real men in Congress who aren’t afraid of their own shadow. This guy should have been impeached years ago. I’m so discussed with the democrats, I might become a Republican just to spite myself.
I just can’t take it anymore, what the he double toothpicks are the democrats thinking. This guy gives them impeachment opportunity after impeachment opportunity and they just stand there like a bunch of idiots. I’m so upset I might move to Canada.
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:44 pmFly-man said:
Thanks, Spudge & RemoveBush, now if the President has this Nixonian absolute power mojo whammy in him what does he need to do with this power. The judiciary and especially the Senate have their own ideas of seperation of powers, so if it is in the best interest of the republic to trample on a few civil liberties what is the objective? Securing what?
Comment by the Fly-man — January 3, 2006 @ 7:42 pm
One word – Oil
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:45 pmThe polls would indicate that they support eavesdropping — because they know it helps keep us safer.
Comment by Concerned Conservative — January 3, 2006 @ 6:57 pm
I am sure that, if you took a poll here at Think Progress, you would find that most are support eavesdropping of terrorist organisations, i.e., the groups that purposefully target civilians in pursuit of their political goals.
The problem with polls like this one is that they smack of dishonesty due to the question asked: “Do you support secretly listening on terrorists?” gets a high percentage of “yes”, as it seems designed to. Although I have to say I am surprised it didn’t get 100%.
The question should be: “Do you approve the government eavesdropping without a warrant?”, or even better: “Should the wiretapping be done at Pres Bush’s sole discretion and above the law?”, because that’s what the issue really is.
There can be no safety in a country where there is no rule of law.
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:45 pmFly-Man; I don’t have the answer to that one nor can I even speculate. I am sure that there is some bigger picture plan that someone has, but only a select few know what that is.
There is a plan, but by the time people wake up it will be too late and then people will be saying. “why didnt those damn Democrates say something?” Sadley they are but it does not seem that people who can make a difference are listening. This is why I would love to see the 2 party government go away. This would lead to a true democracy rather than a Our side/Their side does not have enough votes. How is this idealogy good for America?
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:49 pmGregor, there is safety in this country, ask any illegal immigrant. The first thing they learn is it is ok to break a federal law. If al-qualude was in Mexico , what would our borders look like?
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:51 pmGuys,
Please. Help me here. Take what Scotty said, as posted above:
We shouldn’t be talking about intelligence activities, particularly in a time of war, in a public way. This is a highly classified authorization –…
Now, read what I found on CNN.com (available, I believe, for the entire world to read):
The proposed PATRIOT (Provide Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism) Act would provide investigators with more flexibility and greater access to high-tech tools to pursue wiretaps of mobile phones, interception of e-mail messages, and monitoring of Web surfing and other PC-based communications.
This is from an article over 4 years ago. Now, tell me. What is the big “secret” that Scotty and Bushco and all his supporters are whining about?
Dammit, all you rightwingers. Can you not understand this? The only “secret” about this is that Bush was bypassing the FISA court. Now tell me, how does this one little detail harm the war on terror?
Let me say it again, in plain English:
IT IS NOT A SECRET THAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT WAS USING WIRETAPPING, INTERCEPTIONS, AND MONITORING OF ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS.
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:51 pmAfter Cheney the Terrible and his gang of Oprichniks initiate nuclear strikes on Iran in the next couple months, there will be no more pressure on Bush to cooperate, and the bloodletting of our constitutional rights will continue.
January 3rd, 2006 at 7:56 pmNice Pick, WC!!!
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:01 pmLet’s see them drape themselves in the flag over that one!
Look if Scott McClellan says today that this is a highly classified matter, then guess what? That is the formal, or can be the chosen White House statement for the permanent record, can it not? Keep the potato, no e please, Hot. This is code for we are going to prosecute all of the leekees, Ny Times etal, and a bitch slapping it will be. This is the preemptive strike crowd.
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:03 pmGregor, there is safety in this country, ask any illegal immigrant. The first thing they learn is it is ok to break a federal law. If al-qualude was in Mexico , what would our borders look like?
Comment by the Fly-man
Fly-man,
You’ve lost me.
Didn’t you used to be a liberal? Or was I mistaken?….
Now I have to check the archives on your posts…..
All I know is that my daughter was born on the VERY DAY the Berlin Wall came down. It was jubilant. Wonderful. A step forward.
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:05 pmYou aren’t suggesting we erect such a wall, are you?????
If al-qualude was in Mexico , what would our borders look like?
Comment by the Fly-man — January 3, 2006 @ 7:51 pm
If AlQaeda were indeed in Mexico, there would be no border. Further, I would expect the mass slaughter of Mexicans to begin in earnest -as suspected sympathisers of “terrorists”. Any resistance on the part of the Mexican populace to the invasion would only serve to reinforce the notion that they are all “dead-enders” and terrorists.
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:06 pmCan you say Dana Priest defense fund?
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:08 pmSomeone needs to take this spoiled brat W back behind the wood pile for a serious ass whipping. Will someone in congress please step forward and begin the impeachment process. Stand up to this bully, he’s all hot air without bite.
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:21 pmFly-man,
You are confusing me too.
Why does Bush and friends want ultimate power? So they can have ultimate power to rule. Once they have the US bent over a barrel, they will try to squash everything else in their path. These guys think they can bring about the “end days” as described in their version of the “holy book”
Why did we need to explain that to you?
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:23 pmThe questions were this:
“Will the WH participate in the hearings?”
“Will you cooperate with a hearing?”
The answer, simply, should have been:
“Yes” or “Yes, we will cooperate in the hearings.”
Scotty didn’t answer the question that was asked. It was about as close to a non-answer that you can get. He said they are “talking” to members of Congress. Hell, the hearings haven’t even started. How can the WH be cooperating in the hearings if they haven’t started?
These conversations that the WH is having with “additional” members of Congress (meaning those not originally privy to Bush’s secret wiretapping program) seem to be nothing more than an attempt to derail any mumblings about official hearings. If the AG can convince the “additional” members of Congress that Bush is right, then all bets are off. No hearings, and Bush goes on about his business.
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:23 pmThe administration is once again proclaiming that it is above Congressional oversight. If the Congress lets Bush get away with this, they might as well hold a ceremony, put a wreath on his head, and declare him Caligula II.
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:24 pmSpudge,
So you are thinking they want to expedite “the Rapture”?
Wow!
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:28 pmWicked Spooky. (OK. I just showed my Mass accent there, but it seemed appropriate.)
Unless these guys think they are Pharoahs and plan to take it with them, they certainly aren’t into getting Raptured. They are just garden variety thieves and con men who happened to land in a country where “no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.” (Thanks and a tip of the hat to HLM)
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:37 pmAnd to continue my rant from #85…
The general public sure as hell isn’t going to do anything about it. All Bush as to do is nuke Iran in the name of fighting future terrorists, and his blind and ignorant followers will fall in line right behind him. Hell, better yet, all we need are a few fresh terror alerts to snap people to attention. Much less messy than nuclear fallout.
And short of a Democratic uprising in 2006, the only chance I see of Bush getting taken out is if enough members of his own party in Congress see him as a liability in ‘06 and impeach him to please the electorate. Re-election is then almost a certainty. Fixed voting machines notwithstanding, if Bush can convince a majority of the voters that he can protect us better than Kerry in the WOT, then I’m sure that Congress can convince the voters, with relatively equal ease, that Bush is a danger to America. For starters, questions about the intelligence regarding WMDs is still fresh on people’s minds; all they need is a few key Republican players to open up and say, yeah, Bush misled us; we didn’t have the same intelligence that he had. Then they can get the ball rolling.
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:37 pmzieg-heil Nixons Ziegler is back. Bush and the great majority of Republicans both in the Cabinet and in the Senate as well as the House are outright criminals. They are the baathists of America. I suggest we string each and every one of em up in Public. These people have KILLED our country literally. Now they claim to be saving lives with their atrocious criminal activities. Who the hell in this country is going to finally stand up and take the actions required once and for all to rid America of these vermin?
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:44 pmI try to look beyond the king as it were. The figure head gestures, the body politic runs. What is Dick Cheney up to? WC, dont you think we would nuke pakistan first, India gets a seat on the Security council and Iraq sells China oil and we get 10%. Iran, let them wank, what do WE have to lose? It’s really Wild cat W vs Petrol Putin, gas oil hell, son we got it all. Spudge that’s what I see, the Messianic thing is just for cover to maintain popular support.
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:49 pmDoes anyone need to be reminded of the Congressional hearings chaired by Pat Robertson? He stymied Rockefeller at every turn. He promised the “second part” after the election, and then when the elections passed, he said the “second part” was unnecessary. When the Dems raised holy hell after months in waiting, he got all prickly and said keep your shirt on, the report is due soon, and that was in mid-November. We are still waiting.
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:50 pmAnything substantive coming from congressional hearing on domestic spying is highly unlikely.
These guys all feel above the law, don’t feel the need to explain anything and they have stacked the courts with allies who will find or set legal precedent in their favor.
Bush has declared the perpetual war on terror that will keep him in office indefinitely. He is slowly removing individual freedoms and Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms in the name of “security” as he defines it.
Here’s a nice article from Huffpo/cs :
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0103/p01s03-uspo.html?s=yaht
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:55 pmBush has declared the perpetual war on terror that will keep him in office indefinitely. He is slowly removing individual freedoms and Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms in the name of “security†as he defines it.
Comment by Marie
So, how’s the airfare to England? Australia?
How do they like Americans?…….
1930’s all over again……
January 3rd, 2006 at 8:59 pmMore good stuff from CNL:
http://www.andrewsullivan.com/index.php?dish_inc=archives/2006_01_01_dish_archive.html#113630426610054309
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:00 pmWell said. Scot McClellan will repeat this stuff until he is blue int he face. Which he may be already.
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:02 pmThe members of the Nova Mob may think they’re above the law and maybe they are for the moment. What they’re not above is stabbing each other in the back as soon as expediency calls for it, and, as the series of scandals snowballs, people you never even heard of are going to get shaken out of the trees, dying to reveal all the dirty little secrets of the administration. Former Young Republican law school types are not going away for five, six, ten years to protect BushCo.
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:05 pmBush Pushes for Patriot Act Renewal
WASHINGTON – As the clock runs on Congress’ short-term extension of the Patriot Act, President Bush met with federal prosecutors Tuesday and contended that the domestic anti-terror law is vital to keeping Americans safe.
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:10 pmRON EDMONDS (AP)
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
This must STOP!
Everyone, write, call, email, etc.
I had to refresh my computer and came face to face with this story…! ICK!
We have to stop this idiot. Truly.
More fodder for Bush’s power grab:
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2006/01/so-much-for-presidents-assent-to.html
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:21 pmWhite House Won’t Cooperate with Domestic Spying Hearings
“In my day, we called it ’stonewalling’.”
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:00 pmHas anyone sat down and considered what would happen if W was idiotic enough to attack Iran? Since our armed forces are streached to the limit – hell, we are reactivating people in their 50’s, we really have no reserve. On top of that, the third rung in W’s “axis of evil” probably has nukes and we have no defense against delivery systems from missiles (SDI is a myth intended to enrich the arms industry) to shipping containers. I imagine that Kim Jong Il would set as his first priority, a regime change in Washington, DC and Crawford, TX.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:00 pmUnbelievable…Bush and Cheney have abused every law we have and they expect us to believe they will not abuses innocents…Unbelievable
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:13 pmWhat is really sad is if the american people do not stand up to uphold their responsibilities as a free person under the constitution…..it is “just a g– d— piece of paper.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:54 pmToilet paper for Bushco and every so called elected official.
For a more thorough critique of the entire press conference — and all the spin and question-dodging McClellan could muster, check out this post from JABBS.
January 4th, 2006 at 1:10 amIn answer to #101 – (partially, at least): Iran has already proclaimed that any attempt to “disarm” them will result in a(MASSIVE)DEFENSIVE ACTION aimed at Isreal — which they reiminded, “is definitely within reach.” Which assumed is a nuke — which would start WWIII — and you are correct, given that Bush has pretty much destroyed our military (and our economy) (and our international standing as a “respected country”) — the only hope that we would have against Korea is that we are pretty much owned by China (Bush has borrowed more than all other previous presidents combined)– so it would be in China’s interest to protect their investment;i.e. – they own the United States.
I (still) see three more provinces of Canada made up of the Blue States: the three Western States and then the Great Lake States and the Northeast… which would take 70 percent of the economy up to Canada — and basically, starve the Bush regime into compliance. And Canada would become the largest land mass and economic force on the planet… and that would pretty much solve this whole catastrophe. Under states’ rights “together” the Blue States could do it. Whether or not it was accomplished, if the Blue States (together) had enough backbone to go all for one and one for all… the political damage of the bulk of the US economy just saying enough is enough would stop Bush — the “red” states do not have the economic power nor population control to do anything about it as long as THE BLUE STATES WENT AT THIS [CAMPAIGN] together without faulter — I have a feeling even many of the purple states are becoming bluer… I read a long time ago, where Vermont had talked about “leaving” the U.S. because of Bush, but Vermont alone would be crushed by Bush — who knows, if Congress doesn’t turn dem in ‘06, it could come to it…
on another subject: if anyone is interested, go to http://www.bradblog.com (which I have no affiliation with) and scroll down to where there is a mapping out of Abramhoff’s trail/connections to VERY, VERY mob-connected patrons (that are connected to the White House too). There are links to many individual articles regarding assassins of that circle in Fla and TX, and a politician’s mother being assassinated because of [biz] dealings gone bad, and even connections to Abramhoff and some of the 911 terrorists in both Vegas and those private gambling boats off the shores of Fla… and the contributions through Abramhoff to his political benefactors via known “terrorist accounts…” Hmmmm?
January 4th, 2006 at 1:46 amfyi – one further interesting article re ‘who else’ is entwined in the Abramhoff ordeal:
http://americablog.blogspot.com/2006/01/hardballs-chris-matthews-foxs-tony.html
January 4th, 2006 at 2:01 am#15
You bring up the “Catch 22″ of governmental tyranny/secrecy.
The way you phrase the prospective lawsuit, you have no complaint. This would comprise “prior restraint” … that is, preventing something you suspect MIGHT happen to you. Obviously, you would have no evidence of wrongdoing or of being violated/harmed.
But, the Administration clings to absolute secrecy in these matters. There is virtually NO WAY you could obtain the information that you are being spied on by the government.
This is the definition of a perfect crime. The only way to gain PROOF of an invalid violation of your privacy is if the perpetrator(s) voluntarily confess. There is no longer even the “paperwork” formality of obtaining permission from a judge; you must simply trust the Chief Executive that he has good reason. You must trust, because you are afraid, and ONLY a Chief Executive unencumbered by oversight or the need for probable cause, can properly “protect” you.
Put another way, if you insist the President follow THE LAW, you will be killed by terrorists … because the President TRIED to protect you, but you thwarted his efforts.
So, CHOOSE. A “promise” of safety (requiring you to forfeit your rights and your privacy), or death at the hands of terrorists, because the President cannot protect you AND follow the Constitution. Choose wisely.
January 4th, 2006 at 2:41 amIN RE: J.Harrison
The argument the Bush admin. is making is all about evasion of accountability required by the LAW. They do not want to be accountable to Congress, the Constitution, or any laws. They are all lawlwess and in contempt of our Republic, the People, and they shall all be eventually removed from office for their bribery, high crimes, crimes against humanity, etc. They are not protecting anyone but their own bank accounts, and their behinds. They make Nixon look like a small time crook.
The Democrats shall retake the House and the Senate, and shall restore counting of all votes accurately.
So shall it be written, so shall it be done.
Plato
January 4th, 2006 at 4:13 amLet’s talk about the biggie folks – the connection to AIPAC and the Israeli lobby. Then we’d be getting somewhere.
http://www.iamthewitness.com
January 4th, 2006 at 4:29 amHere is Jeff Steinberg’s update to the National Center on
Dec. 31, 2005:
I actually want to start by reading the quote from Lyn, which will be the lunge of the Carl Schmitt package for this next EIR, because I think it really points to Lyn’s prescience, and his abilities as a political forecaster. This is from the Jan. 3, 2001 Washington, D.C. webcast, where, this is really, I think, the first point at which the outcome of the election was clear, and where we knew more or less the shape of the incoming Bush-Cheney Administration cabinet; where Lyn first drew the parallel between the Bush-Cheney Administration and the Hitler,
following the Reichstag Fire.
Lyn said: “First of all, when Bush put Ashcroft in, as a nomination for the Justice Department, he made it clear: The Ku Klux Klan was riding again….
“Ashcroft was an insult to the Congress. If the Democrats in the Congress capitulate to the Ashcroft nomination, the Congress is finished.” And I think that that was sort of a preview epitaph for the first four years of the Bush Administration, and the way Congress generally rolled over.
Lyn, then, got to the real heart of things. He said:
“This is pretty much like the same thing that Germany did, on Feb. 28, 1933, when the famous {Notverordnung} [emergency rule] was established. Just remember, that after the Reichstag fire, Goering, who commanded at that time–he was the Minister-President of Prussia at the time–set into motion an operation. As part of this, operating under rules of Carl Schmitt, a famous pro-Nazi jurist of Germany, they passed this act, called the {Notverordnung,} the emergency act, which gave the state the power, according to Schmitt’s doctrine, to designate which part of its own population were enemies, and to imprison them, freely. And to eliminate them. This was the dictatorship.”
Now Lyn continued: “We’re going into a period in which
either we do the kinds of things I indicated in summary to you today, or else, what you’re going to have, is not a government. You’re going to have something like a Nazi regime. Maybe not initially, at the surface. What you’re going to have is a government which can not pass legislation, meaningful legislation. How does a government which can not pass meaningful legislation, under conditions of crisis, govern? They govern, in every case in known history, by what’s known as crisis-management.
“In other words, just like the Reichstag fire in Germany….
“What you’re going to get, with a frustrated Bush Administration, if it’s determined to prevent itself from being opposed, …. you’re going to get crisis-management. Where members of the special warfare types, of the secret government, the secret police teams, will set off provocations, which will be used to bring about dictatorial powers and emotion, in the name of crisis-management.
“You will have small wars set off in various parts of the world, which the Bush Administration will respond to, with crisis-management methods of provocation.”
And then Lyn said, “You’ve got to control this process now, while you still have the power to do so. Don’t be like the dumb Germans, who, after Hitler was appointed to the Chancellorship, in January 1933, sat back and said, `No, we’re going to defeat him at the next election.’ There never was a next election–there was just this {`Jawohl,’} for Hitler as dictator. Because the {Notverordnung} of February 1933, {eliminated} the political factor.”
Then Lyn said, “I know these guys very well”–referring to the Bush-Cheney people–”because I’ve been up against them. These guys, pushed to the wall, will come out with knives in the dark. They will not fight you politically. They will get you in the back, they will use their thugs to get you. That’s their method–we know it.”
Then, he finished up on Scalia. He said: “Given the
implications of the grave financial crisis facing the world
today, the crucial fact of greatest importance concerning
Scalia’s doctrines of law, is that his political and legal
outlook is identical on all crucial, relevant points of
comparison, to the legal dogmas used to bring Adolf Hitler to power, during a roughly comparable period of grave financial crisis in Germany. Specifically, Scalia expresses the same explicitly Romantic dogmas of the pro-fascist Conservative Revolution of G.W.F. Hegel, Friedrich Nietzsche, et al., which Scalia imitated, in keeping with the model precedent of the so-called `Kronjurist’ of Nazi Germany, Carl Schmitt. That is the Schmitt who was the legal architect of the doctrine creating those dictatorial powers given with finality to the Nazi regime of Adolf Hitler.”
SOUND FAMILIAR?
January 4th, 2006 at 5:02 amYep, they are spying on us. They’ve taken down two of my computers so far. I’ve even been able to track them a few times. I’m not a super expert, but I do know somethings and tricks, and they do leave their marks. Found out they have done the same thing to others. I was doing research on various countries special operation forces at the time. I’m sure that sent some flags off. But I was even on Bush I’s hit list. I got out of the Army before Bush I took power because I knew what they are. When Reagan got shot I had to find out more on who might become the Commander-in-Chief. I’ve found out many scary things in the past two decades. But now it has come to flower, but not only can it prick you, it kills. Back in 2000 I thought I was nearly alone. But who else knew what I knew, and was still alive. Thank God I became a nobody. I saw GWB once in life. Some high school buddies had relocated to Huston back in the early 1980s because of the loss of jobs where we grew up. I was stationed in Texas and went to go visit them. So they took me out to the strip clubs. And there he was, even had his “own” table. A spiffy drug store cowboy lout of a vulgar drunk. Also heard about the $3,000 weekend drug parties when he visted the folks. Before the Laura “Pickle” days. Keep my numbers growing. We are not alone.
January 4th, 2006 at 6:36 amThe Congress has to step up to the plate and hold these thugs accountable, this administration feels that it is their right to spy on Americans, they will never be stopped unless our lawmakers put an end to this fascism.
January 4th, 2006 at 8:02 amThere is no enemy. You are fighting shadows. Do you wake up in the morning scared of terrorists that are plotting to kill you. You are paranoid. You are more likely to be killed by a drunk driver, cancer or getting struck by lightning.
Do you cower in your basement all day worried about people and things trying to kill you?
Talk about wearing a tinfoil hat.
Scaredy cat.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
You’re an idiot. 3000 dead Americans from NYC told me so.
January 4th, 2006 at 8:54 amYep, they are spying on us. They’ve taken down two of my computers so far. Thank God I became a nobody.
Comment by Crazy Iron Horse
You were always a nobody and still are. You’re a bad liar too. Welcome to the board. There’s plenty of shit-for-brains losers like yourself to play with here. You can be nobodies together.
January 4th, 2006 at 8:58 am“This is whole problem. The administration doesn’t recognize that Congress has a role in overseeing the executive branch. They only want to inform Congress on their terms. That’s not oversight, that’s a lecture.”
Bush has informed everyone whom he is required to bring into the loop. Specter, RHINO loser and backstabber that he is playing politics with national security and Bush should make him pay come next election. The twerp is only in the position that he is thanks to Bush. This is one of the mistakes that Bush ought to own up to.
January 4th, 2006 at 9:03 amAdministration Won’t Cooperate With Congressional Hearings On Domestic Spying
Just wait, martial law is coming to a city near you.
January 4th, 2006 at 9:18 amRE: post 87 Yes, True Blue, they really believe “The Rapture” is coming, so why worry about anything! Check out this piece by Bill Moyers that was posted to Truthout just a day or so ago….Scary!
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/38/8664
January 4th, 2006 at 9:33 amHere’s another good one on Buzzflash..( Top o’ the hat to mushmouth Scotty McClellan)
January 4th, 2006 at 9:41 amHis Mom has ditched the GOP, turned independant, and is challenging Perry for Gov. of Texas….
http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TEXAS_GOVERNORS_RACE?SITE=JRC&SECTION=POLITICS&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-01-02-23-08-24
White House Plans to Stonewall Congress, Screws the Constitution again.
I wish my full time job was this blog, because the collapse of this administration is starting to take some real time now.
ThinkProgress has pointed this out, and I will opine on it. The Bush administration thinks that is above the law in just about…
January 4th, 2006 at 9:53 amIt is interesting that the supporters of this program support it because they assume that the administration is following the law. Why would they assume this? Because the administration says so. Why do I assume they are not following the law? 1) Most every non-administration legal source says so 2) Gonzales said Congress would have never allowed it 3) the president contradicts AG by saying congress gave him the power 4) the president says he has the implied power regardless of congressional action 5) the few details we have received about the program have changed several times as has the logic behind the program 6) the president says that it is only AlQueda Types yet we have no way of knowing this without any oversight 7) the biggie, the administration wants everyone to leave them alone and not even look at this. With my kids if I know they want me to avoid something I can usually find something wrong that they have done right where they don’t want me to look. To me the administration is acting guilty and this needs to be looked at on several levels. At the minimum it needs to be looked at on an operational level and it also needs to be looked at on a constitutional level. Once these are finished then the acountability needs to be examined. But rest assured Bush fans he will skate on the accountability issue because he has not been held accountable for anything yet, so why start now.
January 4th, 2006 at 10:11 amI’m thinking we need to go way past impeachment for these assmunches. The arrogance, greed, and all-round ignorance this administration has shown towards about 90% of the American population, needs to be stopped, and stopped now. A mass march with a few tons of tar and feathers, for everybody that has even the faint air of corruption and scandal about them, be they in Congress, work on K Street, or have their job through the rampant cronyism that Shrub stands for, would make a nice statement.
Sorry folks, and if the NSA is monitoring this blog tough noogies, but we need a revolution to get rid of these scumbags, and we need it now.
January 4th, 2006 at 10:30 amSorry folks, and if the NSA is monitoring this blog tough noogies, but we need a revolution to get rid of these scumbags, and we need it now.
Comment by buzzbike
Personally I’d like to see a military dictatorship for awhile. I think it would be cool to take down the organizations of the Filthy Left in one fell swoop. It would make my stock in ACME Hemp and Razorwire go through the roof. Oh, and if the NSA is monitoring this mouthpiece for global communism (and I know they are)I’m sure most of them would agree.
January 4th, 2006 at 10:58 amIm concerned more about the 2006 elections than 2008.Bush knows what will happen if the Democrats retake congress.It will mean articles of impeachment.
There is Plamegate,Abramoff,which could ensnare Bushco as well,phony intelligence used to drum up the war,the NSA leak scandal,and Im sure other scandals we dont yet know about.
Any one of those could end his presidency and they know it.They need a massive dose of distraction to prevent this from happening.I wont speculate as to what that would be but it would have to be severe enough to prevent all those scandals from moving forward.
To be honest Im concerned that it will likely happen between now and november unless the Dems shoot themselves in the foot before then and help bring the GOP back to life.Unfortunately I wouldnt put it past them.
Scary times
January 4th, 2006 at 11:22 am2006 elections? You need to start paying attention to the news man.
These boys are going to wipe Iran off the map in the next few months if they get away with their next little “inside job”.
The time for MASSIVE PROTEST is now. Don’t sit on your sofa worrying about election fraud.
This is it people. Total war and tyranny, or rebellion.
What’s it to be?
January 4th, 2006 at 11:47 amI also needed to add that this stinks because the administration knew the thing had been leaked over a year ago, yet sat on it till the public found out. They could have investigated and sealed the leak if it truly was a legal program. Since they did not do so I can only assume that their current outrage and investigation is feigned and being staged strictly for political purposes.
#122, you can only assume that the administration is using the program strictly to chase terrorists. You can only assume this because that is what they are telling you. Other than that you have no other information. Should congress actually have oversight on this program then perhaps congress saying yep they are operating on the up and up with congressional approval and we have regularly checked to ensure no abuses have been occurring, then and only then will you have the assurance that the program is operating in a manner consistent with what the president is saying.
The people responsible for planning 9/11 have been captured? Was it in the papers? I had not heard that Bin Laden was in custody. Good for the president glad he finally got his man.
I’m against this because we have these things called laws and civilized nations follow them in the case of the United States to not follow those laws means that the enemy has won because our system breaks down. The LAWS we currently have work for the situations at hand, and all we have saying they don’t is political rhetoric devoid of facts. The LAWS we have for this are very specific and cover more territory than pundits are saying. Additionally we have this thing called the constitution which applies to us and it has this 4th amendment, well I don’t need to educate anybody but the case law surrounding the 4th is very deep and very specific. 1) 72 hours is plenty of time to get a retroactive warrant. 2) simply saying the courts are restrictive or the paperwork is onerous is not enough. Laziness is no excuse. This is a rubber stamp court that is approving what is essentially 100% of the applications brought before it. 3) the ticking time bomb line of reasoning is not valid, maybe on TV but not in reality. They always can start and then go back 72 hours and get the warrant. 4) I believe that no one is above the law ever for any reason. The ends do not justify the means.
The most important reason I am against it is that there is no oversight so in a nutshell we have no clue, other than the presidents word that they are monitoring Al Queda types. Without oversight for all we know they are spying on reporters, political opponents, special prosecutors, you and me…we just don’t know. And saying that they would not do so is to be absolutely ignorant of history, it has been done before in this country and it was illegal then and is illegal today.
And OMG Able Danger, I missed that, hearing those words is all I need to know. Apparently the news that able danger is not what the right wing portrayed it as has not reached you yet. Do a search and learn about this program and do so without reading on any partisan site, right or left. Facts are available. Saying the terrorism is not going to stop regardless of who is president is exactly the mindset the right wants people to take. That way they can say the war is going to go on indefinitely and, well you know their views of presidential power sin times of war…he can do whatever he wants in the prosecution of this war. Ultimately I think there will be the very real possibility of a third and 4th term for GWB, using his logic, he can suspend the constitution (elections and stuff like that) in the prosecution of this war, which you have admitted can go on indefinitely. Heck Delay may have hinted at what they are shooting for when he told the NRA that it is good to have so many friends who are armed. It might sound far fetched but a lot of what is going on today sounded far fetched back in 2001.
January 4th, 2006 at 11:49 amWAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
You are on the edge of fascist takeover. Total military dictatorship.
Do you want to live out your life as a human being, or a slave?
Organize, meet, FIGHT while you still have habeas corpus.
This is Boston Tea party time.
January 4th, 2006 at 11:53 am#123, IRI shows his trues colors again – brown.
January 4th, 2006 at 12:01 pmWAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
You are on the edge of fascist takeover. Total military dictatorship.
Do you want to live out your life as a human being, or a slave?
Organize, meet, FIGHT while you still have habeas corpus.
This is Boston Tea party time.
Comment by RAL
Not a bad idea actually. Franco did wonders for Spain until the Filthy Left got back in power and screwed the country up. I like your tea party idea too. It would be fun to see you losers out running around burning down your own neighborhoods like the Blacks are so fond of doing. You’re not Black are you?
January 4th, 2006 at 12:06 pmIRI
No, I am white like you, except that you are black as shit on the inside.
You are without shadow of doubt the most disgusting piece of racist Nazi white trash I ever came across.
Hard to believe that pigs like you even exist outside of the history books really. But then you do spend so much of your intellectually limited time in the past don’t you, asshole?
Better pray you never run into me, or you will find out who the loser is, and that’s a one way ticket.
Thanks for being the token BushCo poster boy. You did a great job of showing what the GOP really stands for – as if anyone with a brain needed the lesson.
January 4th, 2006 at 12:21 pm#125 You need to pay attention to what I wrote “man”.I said that they are going to do something “severe” before then which would nullify the 2006 elections.But thanks for playing.
January 4th, 2006 at 12:28 pm#113
And you are a moron.
13 people just died in a mine. Should we start the Global War on Mining?
2 People died yesterday when their SUV went into a river. Should we start the Global War on SUVs?
How scared are we supposed to be? Terrorists don’t scare me. I am a rational human being. You are a racist scaredy cat. Pussy. Be a man and get on with your life. Or build a bunker and STFU.
January 4th, 2006 at 12:42 pm#123
Wow, you are just a stupid and crazy as we all have pointed out.
January 4th, 2006 at 12:43 pm#129
More evidence of your racism.
January 4th, 2006 at 12:45 pmIf the guy’s rhetoric wasnt so over the top I might believe he was serious.Just another Ann coulter clone who goes for shock value over substance.He isnt worth our time or effort.
January 4th, 2006 at 12:53 pmWell today’s revelation that the NSA were spying before the Preznit told them to, leads me to believe that he’s going to blame it all on “a few bad apples” in the NSA. That sort of unslams my dunk. However, I reckon we’ll see whether those tossers in the NSA are willing to take it up the bum for the 1st Liar-In-Chief.
January 4th, 2006 at 1:19 pmAn understanding of Leo Strauss and the principles he espoused would help many of you to better comprehend the underpinning mechanics of the administration’s methodologies.
As to the initial question, “Why do they act the way they do”, there are a wide variety of ulterior motives depending upon which conservative sub-group we are talking about. Consequently, the same holds true with liberals.
Evangelical Christians want to speed along the second return of Christ and Dominionists want to build God’s Kingdom on Earth through domination.
The Corporate Task Masters want absolute deregulation and privatization.
Head-in-the-Sand Conservatives want less taxation, lower priced goods at the local big box stores, and cheaper gas sucking SUVs.
So on an so forth. Personally, I think Bush is a puppet dancing gleefully for the real power brokers – Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove – who is simply happy to have a job that pays and where his daddy doesn’t have to bail him out.
Should anyone be surprised that the Bush administration is using Nixonian tactics when our sitting VP and Sec. of Def. were both players in Nixon’s collapsed adminstration? Please.
I cannot escape the overwhelming feeling that we are approaching critical mass as a divided nation. How soon before it errupts into violence? How soon before we are again staring a civil war in the face? Jefferson did warn that occasionally there would be times when the blood of true patriots would need to be laid upon the alter of freedom…and he wasn’t talking about an altar in faraway Iraq.
Alas, time will tell.
January 4th, 2006 at 1:44 pmMore evidence of your racism.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Think so do you? I call it likes I sees it and I saw it on CBS news.
January 4th, 2006 at 1:54 pmAnd you are a moron.
13 people just died in a mine. Should we start the Global War on Mining?
2 People died yesterday when their SUV went into a river. Should we start the Global War on SUVs?
How scared are we supposed to be? Terrorists don’t scare me. I am a rational human being. You are a racist scaredy cat. Pussy. Be a man and get on with your life. Or build a bunker and STFU.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
I’d be willing to bet that if those were Jews in those planes on 9-11 you’d be the first in line to join the army.
January 4th, 2006 at 1:55 pmIRI
….[snip obligatory Nazi racist white trash references]
Better pray you never run into me, or you will find out who the loser is, and that’s a one way ticket.
Comment by RAL
It’s what I’m trying to tell you. I think we need to do it. Freedom and liberty like everything else including you has been dumbed down to the point of meaninglessness by the Filthy Left in this country. I’m all in for another civil war. It would give us just the excuse we need to weed you losers out. It wouldn’t take long either, you are a very small if loud and stinky minority.
January 4th, 2006 at 2:04 pmRe: IRI
Brainstemmer Sleeper-Cellout / Bu$helzebubba Toady /
DSM (Democracy Surrender Monkey)
Father-figuring his MyPetGoat-fixed, pants-pissing HeckaJob Doosier DaddyKing, he’s hooked & gawking at the promise of a “bedtime story”, quite possibly craving the shiny macho-pounding of Bulldogma-Style Gannon…truly, their dittoheady ‘missionary position’ is
a growing spectacle of National Instruction…
there WILL be a “Quiz” …it’s called Midterm Elections / IMPEACHMENT
January 4th, 2006 at 2:22 pmI wonder if Wild Bill OReily still believes in the snetements he expressed 5 years ago…
Earth to Bush, it is the Justice Department’s mandate to investigate public corruption. That’s why we have a Justice Department — to seek justice. OK?…And why is the FBI on the sidelines?
President Bush and all of us should be demanding full disclosure…, we need to start holding our leaders accountable for what they do. The audience applauded. I’ve never heard a sweeter sound.
January 4th, 2006 at 2:28 pmWhat I want to talk about is why no one in this administration ever talks about how Saddem Hussem was a good alien of America. Saddem was linked to Collen Powel in the CIA, Rumsfield, and Cheny in the Regan and Daddy Bush Administration. How did he become the America Enemy? If fact Saddem was one of the most seculiar Moselums in the Middle East. Also those WMD were sold to him by America. Thats how we new what Iraq had. We new that the weapon inspectors had pretty much destoyed all the weapons of Mass destrustion in 1998. We new he was not a threat to America or Isarel. The reason it was so easy to attack Iraq without oppisition from other Muselum was because we had already made him an enemy of his own people. The only reason that this President and Adminstration took his country was because it was easy pickings. Its easy to drop bombs, when you know that Iraq was unable to respond in a strategic military way. Remember We had santion on this country for at least 10 to 12 years. Restricted to a no fly zone. That advantage gave us an opportunty to destroy all there airplanes. So in other words we knew exactly what we were doing. This plan implimented by the Neo cons was a plan that was in the drawing for many years, they just needed to fine the right killer who would believe that he was being used by a divine present. Every thing around us has gone wrong since this war began. Even Mother nature is tell us that something is wrong. When you hear people saying that they are spreading freedom abroad, at the price of killing other humans. Surely we have gone off the coarse in which I’ll framers intended. We have been used only so other can further their political and financial agenda. Its called One World Order. The Impeacment should have begun when we found out about false information which lead us to WAR. Violation of the Constitution. America can only go to war only is there is Iminent threat to us. They new there was no iminent threat by Iraq. Thats why this Administration kept using that word (Iminent Threat) Think People.
January 4th, 2006 at 3:13 pmGood comments everybody, except Wooberstank who thinks all posters but himself are idiots > lol
January 4th, 2006 at 4:05 pmMore evidence of my racism…
The city of Houston is appealing for emergency funding to help to fight a huge crime wave following the arrival of refugees from hurricane-hit New Orleans.
The murder rate in the Texan city leapt by 24 per cent last year, with the toll for November and December up by 70 per cent on the same period in 2004.
There were 324 murders in Houston in 2005, compared with 263 in 2004. Of the 2005 tally, 51 occurred in November and December – up 21 on the same period of 2004.
The police department has not monitored precisely how many can be attributed to those evacuated after Hurricane Katrina, but says that at least 12 homicides in the past four months have involved evacuees either as victims or perpetrators.
While stressing that they cannot lay all the blame at the door of hurricane evacuees, the police chief and the mayor suggest that the influx of as many as 150,000 extra people has been a contributory factor.
The issue is highly sensitive as the majority of the hurricane’s victims were drawn from New Orleans’s black underclass.
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/01/01/wkatrina01.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/01/01/ixworld.html
“Highly sensitive”…ya gotta love it.
January 4th, 2006 at 4:44 pmI can’t believe the Democrats don’t even have the guts to call for a Special Prosecutor on this one.
I’m not sure that would do much good, at least at this point. I’m no big fan of the Dem leadership, but I think they are handcuffed by the situation: GOP control of government and a lack of clarity in the media on the importance, and illegality, of this story.
January 4th, 2006 at 4:45 pmAmerica can only go to war only is there is Iminent threat to us.
Comment by Sherry Adams
We can go to war any time we get pissed enough. It says so right in the Constitution.
January 4th, 2006 at 4:46 pmI can’t believe the Democrats don’t even have the guts to call for a Special Prosecutor on this one.
I’m not sure that would do much good, at least at this point. I’m no big fan of the Dem leadership, but I think they are handcuffed by the situation: GOP control of government and a lack of clarity in the media on the importance, and illegality, of this story.
Comment by David
No, no, no. That has nothing to do with it. They don’t want a special prosecutor because they are not sure who is going to be indicted. How funny would that be? The Donks special prosecutor on trial with the rest of them? Don’t forget losers…this is a Bush justice department job. Not one high profile Donk is going to come out of this without the stink.
January 4th, 2006 at 4:50 pmOh boy,impeach Bush…then we get Cheney,feel safer already.
January 4th, 2006 at 5:10 pmI-RIGHT-I,
That sounds good. See unlike the republican partisan hacks, we actually want ALL of the corrupt politicians taken down. Even a nitwit knows that’ll get most of the republicans, and only a few democrats. And so be it!
And I have to correct your ‘mistake’ (well your latest mistake). We go to war anytime CONGRESS is pissed off enough, and not before. Congress is a representative body, and therefore is meant to reflect the will of the people. However when the president subverts this, either by illegal or subversive means, then he’s violating both the spirit and the letter of the constitutional requirements. It’s called an impeachable offense, and as such bush should be impeached.
January 4th, 2006 at 6:50 pmTHE FILTHY LEFT MAY BE THE BEST WHITE HOPE FOR aMERICA. aNYONE, AND i MEAN THIS SERIOUSLY, ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT A DICTATORSHIP WILL TAKE US DOWN IS TOTALLY OUT OF THEIR MINDS. mILLIONS OF GUYS LIKE MYSELF WILL CRUSH YOU ON THE SPOT.
January 4th, 2006 at 9:15 pm#122, you can only assume that the administration is using the program strictly to chase terrorists. You can only assume this because that is what they are telling you. Other than that you have no other information.
Mark — January 4, 2006 @ 11:49 am
Rubbish. The only way you don’t have more information about NSA intercepts is if you ignore it so your outrage is contained to Bush.
You remember Gannon ? Where every criticism of him included reference to the fact that his reporting was informed by nothing more than Whitehouse press releases ?
You’re carrying his torch now. Congrats.
Should congress actually have oversight on this program then perhaps congress saying yep they are operating on the up and up with congressional approval and we have regularly checked to ensure no abuses have been occurring, then and only then will you have the assurance that the program is operating in a manner consistent with what the president is saying.
Right. You know what… why don’t you check if they already told you that. Check the disclosure in the findings and discussion when all phones sold in the US were required to be wiretap friendly. Or when all ISPs had hardware installed to eavesdrop on all internet traffic. See if they mentioned anything about warrentless spying when those came into reality.
If you think congress didn’t know this was going on you are kidding yourself. You’ll recall this month was when senators started pulling out their get out of jail free cards written years ago objecting to this but not necessarily causing a fuss.
The people responsible for planning 9/11 have been captured? Was it in the papers? I had not heard that Bin Laden was in custody. Good for the president glad he finally got his man.
I’d suggest you’re lying about being someone who reads papers if you think Bin Laden was responsible for planning 9/11 and acting as the point man for the Hamburg cell. Both of those men have been captured.
I’m against this because we have these things called laws and civilized nations follow them in the case of the United States to not follow those laws means that the enemy has won because our system breaks down.
Funny you didn’t mention that earlier. Why no protest about having your communications scanned every day of your life up until December ?
Surely this breakdown of society was just as evident then as it was now. Well ?
The LAWS we currently have work for the situations at hand, and all we have saying they don’t is political rhetoric devoid of facts.
There is no political rhetoric coming from anyone protesting about the fact that laws prohibiting US intelligence agencies operating domestically are easily circumvented and in fact there are worldwide programs dedicated to specifically this purpose.
This includes all the good guys you see popping their heads up on this issue feining outrage. Not one of them is proposing it stops.
The LAWS we have for this are very specific and cover more territory than pundits are saying. Additionally we have this thing called the constitution which applies to us and it has this 4th amendment, well I don’t need to educate anybody but the case law surrounding the 4th is very deep and very specific. 1) 72 hours is plenty of time to get a retroactive warrant.
Of course it is. I can travel around the globe in 72 hours so I could certainly visit a judge in that time. However that isn’t the issue.
The issue is whether 72 hours is a long enough period for a ordinary citizen to make enough suspect communications to mark themselves as a suspect. If it is long enough then you are able to obtain a warrant. If it isn’t then you don’t and data mining these people is illegal.
Now you could recite the same “this is the law” crap like it means something or you could take a look at how this would have effected the Hamburg cell. Those boys travelled to foreign countries to get instructions.
2) simply saying the courts are restrictive or the paperwork is onerous is not enough. Laziness is no excuse. This is a rubber stamp court that is approving what is essentially 100% of the applications brought before it.
With about 180 of those restricted before being approved. A fact which is no doubt a lie since ThinkProgress has continually reffered to only 1 case.
3) the ticking time bomb line of reasoning is not valid, maybe on TV but not in reality.
Then don’t bring it up.
They always can start and then go back 72 hours and get the warrant. 4) I believe that no one is above the law ever for any reason. The ends do not justify the means.
Those ends being prevention of mass murder. No… how could anyone be put through what you have every day of your life which has been so traumatic that you weren’t even aware it was occurring. That invisible monitoring is the means you find unacceptable to justify the ends.
The most important reason I am against it is that there is no oversight so in a nutshell we have no clue, other than the presidents word that they are monitoring Al Queda types.
So what ? Under Clinton this was montioring industry so that the US could steal trade secrets and undercut secret bids. No assurances this was limited
Without oversight for all we know they are spying on reporters, political opponents, special prosecutors, you and me…we just don’t know.
YES YOU DO. It is everyone that communicates using unencrypted electronics. Everyone. WTF is so hard to understand about this ?
Unless you think reporters, political opponents and prosecutors have their own personal sattellites I don’t know why you see these people’s communications as any different from your own.
And saying that they would not do so is to be absolutely ignorant of history, it has been done before in this country and it was illegal then and is illegal today.
Likewise for pretending it ever stopped. Seriously… wake me when ThinkProgress follows up it’s “spying before Bush came to office is a myth” story with an investigation into what the NSA was doing with the exact same programs, facilities, technology, staff and countless billions in funding. Because if you believe anything different started in 2001 you really haven’t been getting your money’s worth.
And OMG Able Danger, I missed that, hearing those words is all I need to know. Apparently the news that able danger is not what the right wing portrayed it as has not reached you yet. Do a search and learn about this program and do so without reading on any partisan site, right or left. Facts are available.
Anything relevent you care to mention ? Tell you what how about a nice clean simple outline of how you think it differs from this.
Saying the terrorism is not going to stop regardless of who is president is exactly the mindset the right wants people to take.
I didn’t say this. I said US intelligence will not stop spyig on US citizens regardless of who is in office.
However you are an absolute idiot if you actually believe that terrorism isn’t effected by US elections is a bit of partisan spin rather than reality.
It’s been a few weeks since I started asking so has anyone yet come up with a single non-Reblican candidate anywhere who supports cessation of military and political support for Israel and withdrawal from all middle-east nations that were housing US bases the day before Bush got elected ? Still none ? Oh well… perhaps they weren’t really that serious about why they said you were attacked or committed to their list of demands they killed 3000 of you over.
Ultimately I think there will be the very real possibility of a third and 4th term for GWB
There are people here who think Bush planned 9/11 also. Kooks are nothing new.
January 5th, 2006 at 12:54 amThe Bush administration is desperately trying to hide the fact that they were conducting secret and illegal wiretaps on U.S. citizens before the 9/11 attacks.
First, it is said that it’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks…and Cheney and Rumsfeld are two old Nixonite dogs. So, once they entered the White House, and gained control over the U.S. intelligence agencies, they flashed back to the Nixon years…and started doing the same things again.
Second, for proof that they were conducting illegal surveillance (data-mining) without FISA court approval before 9/11, just remember the incident involving the two 9/11 hijackers whose coded messages were intercepted the day before 9/11, but which weren’t translated until the day after 9/11…48 hours later.
Why the delay?
If these messages were the result of legal, limited, FISA court-approved domestic surveillance, then they would have been intercepted, recorded and translated within hours. This didn’t happen. Therefore, the Bush administration must have swept these messages up in some illicit domestic data-mining operation…before the 9/11 attacks.
It seems clear to me. And even if the Democrats gain control of Congress in November, the Bush administration will continue to stonewall any investigation into their illegal activities…probably with the help of their political plants on the Supreme Court.
So, he’ll have to be impeached. And Cheney. And whoever else pulled these anti-Constitution, anti-Bill of Rights stunts until all the GOP cancer is eradicated from the White House.
January 5th, 2006 at 2:19 amWhat this thread shows me, along with many other threads, is that the worship of Bush supercedes the love of our country. That the love of Bush supercedes the need to actually read and understand the laws of our land. That the love of Bush trumps the constitution. That the love of Bush is killing America faster than any terrorist organization ever could. Face it the Bush followers are in a cult like trance over this man and this administration. In their eyes he can do no wrong ever.
The sample retort will be that I am a Bush hater, (believe me I did nto wait until he got into office, I thought he was an asswipe back in the 1980’s when he was a near constant embarassment to his dad). That may very well be true, or perhaps I can frame it another way…I love America, I love what America was, I think the constitution is one of the, if not the greates document on how a government should operate. I love these things enough to understand that Bush is against all of them and his die hard supporters are too. Besides that I’ll be a selfish republican here and note that Since 2001 investments I own have essentially been adrift in this shitty economy that he has fostered upon us. So his vision of America has hurt me personally financially.
Anyone who thinks the lies started on September 12th, needs to go back and take a look at what was going on prior to then. Example, in order to cover up the deficit caused immediately by the first irresponsible tax cut, the Bushies changed accounting methods. Or how he was for Kyoto before he was against it, or how his handpicked group to study Yellowstone pollution said yes snowmobiles are damaging the park so lets keep them out, followed by the president allowing them back in. Or perhaps the Chinese plane incident. I know a crew member on a different palne who while this was going on mentioned that the pilots would be courtmarshaleld when they returned home, because they are not supposed to land THOSE planes in certain countries, yet they got medals. Or this one…remember after September 11th the president signed executive orders closing previous presidenttial records (which are supposed to be opened 20 years after a president leaves office) remember what he said that it was doen in the interests of national security? Now go back to inaugeration day and take a look at a lawsuit filed in an effort to seal those records. Hmmm how did he know that national security was at stake in Janaury? Or is it that these records are from the Reagan White House and might implicate a great number of individuals in his party, and family in Iran Contra and other issues? There is just way too much shit on the stove with this administration and it has been that way since day one.
January 5th, 2006 at 11:16 amI want these people spied on. They need to be spied on every minute of the day. That goes for Loui’s Black Muslim losers as well. Stick a camera up their ass if you have to.
“Be like America, not like France. Don’t let Muslims in your pants”.
PARIS — A gang of more than 20 youths — thought to be North African immigrants — terrorized hundreds of train passengers in a rampage of violence, robbery and sexual assault on New Year’s Day, French officials said yesterday.
January 5th, 2006 at 11:19 amThe five-hour-long criminal frenzy was “totally unacceptable,” French President Jacques Chirac told reporters. “Those guilty will be found and punished, as they deserve.”
The gang of between 20 and 30 youths boarded the train, heading from Nice on the French Riviera to Lyon, in eastern France, early on Jan. 1, as it carried 600 passengers home from New Year’s Eve partying overnight.
Once inside, they went wild, forcing passengers to hand over mobile phones and wallets, and slashing seats and breaking windows.
A 20-year-old woman cornered by several of the marauders was sexually molested.
“It was a real scene of pillage on the train,” said the regional state prosecutor, Dominique Luigi, adding that the passengers were in a state of “panic.”
Train staff alerted police, and the train pulled into a station to wait. The three officers who initially turned up later were joined by reinforcements.
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20060104-115755-9546r.htm
#156 I think gang violence was born in the USA, pal. And that drug retailers run amok in your downtowns. You have shootings at home everyday, coming from blacks, latinos, asians and wasps, all the racial spectrum. So, is great news if takes place in France, but no news for the USA. Look at your country before putting the blame on others.
And, btw, equating civil unrest or gang activities to terrorism is pretty lame, and demonstrates you don’t understand what are you typing of.
January 5th, 2006 at 1:50 pm#12 – “Is there any doubt now that we have a dictator and fascist in charge of this government. I think it is time for a change in the leadership of this government. President Bush is a danger to this country, a traitor and a public enemy. Any means ought to be used to disposses him from office.” Comment by JMole
*****Yes, Jay – excellent proof of how wrong you are exists in the fact YOU are still here.
January 5th, 2006 at 4:26 pmHey, ya’ll, don’t let the bugging of Christiane Amanpour of CNN story die. Check this out. If it’s true, it’s worse than Watergate!
January 5th, 2006 at 5:41 pmhttp://americablog.blogspot.com/2006/01/nbc-confirms-its-investigating-whether.html
It’s about DOMESTIC SPYING and IMPEACHMENT.
Time for an “outside special counsel”.
January 5th, 2006 at 7:08 pmIt’s not that I’m unpatriotic. The founders of our country did not trust any government — either that of George III or an uncontrolled democracy. That’s why we have the Bill of Rights to protect American citizens from their own government — by demanding, for example, that “Congress shall make no law abridging the right of free speech.’’
This applies to “human rights also” and the abolition of Death Penalties in Europe
To protect us from evil goverments
January 6th, 2006 at 3:45 pmHey, ya’ll, don’t let the bugging of Christiane Amanpour of CNN story die. Check this out. If it’s true, it’s worse than Watergate!
http://americablog.blogspot.com/ 2006/ 01/ nbc-confirms-its-investigating-whether.html
Comment by Mary
Hell, she’s lucky she’s only been bugged. The Marines have shot Jihadi spies..I mean “journalists” for less than she’s done. She should be spied on.
January 6th, 2006 at 4:47 pm“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
Have we been hit by that train yet?
January 6th, 2006 at 11:40 pmProbably most of you know, but for those who don’t, this is an excerpt from The Declaration of Independence, and it’s referring to us, our rights, our DUTY
[...] What gets me though, is the way they are going about handling this. Apparently Alberto “water-board” Gonzales is hard at work lobbying those in congress to drop investigations: Q Will you cooperate with a congressional hearing? [...]
February 4th, 2006 at 8:03 pm