Mine Inspectors Questioned Administration’s Commitment To Mine Safety
Mine Inspectors Questioned Administration’s Commitment To Mine Safety
The Bush administration has announced that they will begin an investigation into the events surrounding the Sago coal-mine incident, an investigation that should explore the administration’s record on mine safety.
The Labor Department denies that budget cuts and staff reductions under President Bush have hindered the ability of the department’s Mine Safety and Health Administration to ensure coal-mine safety. But Jack Spadaro, a former mine safety investigator, claims that mine inspectors raised concerns before Sago about the disastrous consequences that might result from the Labor Department’s unwillingness to enforce safety regulations:
Jack Spadaro, former director of the MSHA National Mine Safety Academy, said inspectors told him privately that Labor Department opposition to vigorous safety regulation has hindered their work.
“Two weeks before this explosion, I was told by an inspector, ‘Jack, there’s going to be another disaster because we can’t do our jobs,’ ” he said in an interview.
The MSHA (Mine Safety and Health Administration) should question Spadaro as part of its investigation.
This is not to suggest the administration’s budget cuts caused the West Virginia accident, nor is it the president’s fault that an explosion occurred. But there is a legitimate question as to whether future mining accidents can be prevented through greater enforcement of mining safety regulations and whether the Bush administration is doing all it can in this area.
UPDATE: Christian Science Monitor: “Sago raises red flags for mine oversight”
UPDATE (2): Crooks & Liars has the transcript of Jack Spadaro’s appearance on Hannity & Colmes. An interesting portion:
SPADARO: Well, actually, there were three orders to close portions of the mine that were issued in the October to the December period. And there has been a significant change since the Bush administration took over, the enforcement of mine safety and health.
And I can speak to that, because I worked in the agency, and I talk with people every day who tell me that, in recent years, and particularly in recent months, there’s been a reluctance on the part of the top management at the Mine Safety and Health Administration to enforce the law.
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so the bushies were warned and didn't take any action. I think I've heard that before
January 5th, 2006 at 11:32 amThe world is falling down around the Liberals ears and all they've got to talk about is spying on radical Muslims and what some mine safety guy says about exploding mines. Sheesh.
January 5th, 2006 at 11:35 amand Abramoff, and Iraq, and the Patriot Act... and the list goes on IRI. There are so many things to talk about.
January 5th, 2006 at 11:37 amI knew somehow some way the liberals would try to blame Bush for the mine explosion and the deaths of those miners. Regular as clock work.
January 5th, 2006 at 11:38 amIt is sad that it takes a tragedy like the death of 12 miners to get better safety measures/regulations for mining companies! There has to be an investigation of this incident to determine if the mine owners were negligent in any way! Also, if the federal government contributed to this disaster, by cutting back funding for inspections, then that needs to be rectified! Trained mining rescue teams need to be on standby in every mining region to speed up the possibility of saving the miners the next time!
January 5th, 2006 at 11:39 amBut it was really Clinton's fault, right Tracy?
January 5th, 2006 at 11:40 amSarcasm On
When will u guys on the left stop blaming Bush for everything? Jeez. Being Commander in Chief only applies when things go well. We accept the accolades. But hey, accidents and disasters what is he supposed to do? Shit happens, but don't blame the Pres. It's not his fault that his cronies aren't up to the jobs that he appoints them to do. He rewarded them for favors received. How could he know that their ineptness would be exposed? You can't expect the guy to know everything. Shucks, he's just the leader of the free world. If a democrat was in office we wouldn't be blaming all of this on him. Well, okay we would but that's different. Democrats aren't appointed by God. So there.
Sarcasm Off
January 5th, 2006 at 11:40 amIRI seems so disconnected from reality that it's almost like he's... could it be?... Is that you, George?
January 5th, 2006 at 11:42 amOne other thing: Whoever was responsible for giving out false hope to the miners families, and then failing to tell them the truth for 3 hours, needs to be prosecuted! The mine manager should be fired and hopefully sued for his foolish actions! The Gov. of the state must apologize too!
January 5th, 2006 at 11:44 am#6 No I think it's the company's fault that owned the mine and those in the government for not shutting this particular mine down for repeated safety violations.
January 5th, 2006 at 11:50 am#2- I-Right-I, I'll bet you $1 that every one of those miners who had the world literally falling on their ears voted for George W. Bush, and I'm pretty sure the last time GWB gave any one of those people a single thought was on November 2, 2004.
January 5th, 2006 at 11:51 amtracy - first sentence of last paragraph of post: "This is not to suggest the administration’s budget cuts caused the West Virginia accident, nor is it the president’s fault that an explosion occurred."
your reading and comprehension skills need improvement...you've come to the right place - sit back, read and learn!
good job!
January 5th, 2006 at 11:54 am#12 This is not the only liberal blog you know. Who said I was referring to what was written in this one?
January 5th, 2006 at 12:01 pmDoes it matter? The RIGHT will say that BUSH could not have done anything about it, EVEN THOUGH he has cut almost EVERY program pertaining to the safety of American lives, ONLY to state that WIRE TAPPING is the essential thing necessary now!!!
The LEFT will be observant instead of doing what is necessary to remove and CROOK and a LIAR from the White House!
BUSH DOES NOT care about America or Americans, but he definitely gives a damn about a good photo op...So I suspect that we will have something staged very shortly!
January 5th, 2006 at 12:08 pmWhere's the Complaint Dept around here? Judd and girls are falling down on the job. We'd got Muslims rampaging in France again but no story about Bush's complicity. We've got Africans rampaging in Houston because George Bush caused New Orleans to flood but no story. We've got Mexico trying to tell us how to manage our border because George won't bitch slap Vicente but no story.
I think that "Think Communist" should hire me as an administrator/blogger of this site. I can get things rolling.
January 5th, 2006 at 12:11 pmtracy,
What makes me think you are talking about about the blog that you are in? What the heck kind of reasoning is that? Man can you repugs ever stop spinning things? But thank you for exposing the idiot that you are.
January 5th, 2006 at 12:12 pmThere are some even more serious questions about whether or not Senator Byrd and/or Senator Rockefeller have done ALL they can to ensure the enforcement of safety regulations considering BOTH are Democrats and supposedly represent West Virginians. Still further two out of the three U.S. Congressional representatives are Democrats.
January 5th, 2006 at 12:13 pm#16
Name calling right off the batt...no way!
January 5th, 2006 at 12:14 pmBut where does the money come from to put the inspectors on the ground where the mines are actually located? From the budget of the Labor Department not the pockets of congressmen. That is the problem.
January 5th, 2006 at 12:16 pmway
January 5th, 2006 at 12:16 pmCNN is quoting several sources that indicate inspectors were rewarded for HOW MANY inspections they performed not how well they were performed. They also quoted sources that indicate many of the 'inspectors' were not properly trained which could have allowed violations to be overlooked.
Gee, cronyism and poor direction in THIS administration. It can't be.
January 5th, 2006 at 12:18 pmWe’ve got Africans rampaging in Houston because George Bush caused New Orleans to flood but no story.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 5, 2006 @ 12:11 pm
Africans? Did u really type that? Those are fellow Americans that you are talking about. You are such a bigoted idiot. Why oh why didn't your mother swallow?
January 5th, 2006 at 12:21 pmBut where does the money come from to put the inspectors on the ground where the mines are actually located? From the budget of the Labor Department not the pockets of congressmen. That is the problem.
Comment by dlet
This particular mine was inspected by inspectors who inspected the mine right where the mine sits, on/in the ground. What are you talking about? This particular mine had several problems with it noted by the mine inspectors who inspected the mine from time to time. Reports are that there were no serious faults reported by the mine inspectors in fact the average fine was about two hundred bucks.
Lost in the mad rush to find George complicit in yet another disaster is the simple fact that mining is a dangerous occupation. Shit happens and when it does mines explode.
Like I said...could somebody please come up with a STORY? Thanks in advance for your kind attention to this matter.
January 5th, 2006 at 12:23 pmThis post was fair in it's assessment,although the earlier posts about the mine cited the # of accidents and violations as evidence of a problem with the mine and now it's administration cutbacks in enforcement. Which is it? The mine was obviously regularly inspected,the citations were for air quality,dust build-up and roof falls,yet none were deemed so severe as to warrant closure.
Is there inadequate inspection? Is there inadequate enforcement? Are the standards for closure or suspension of activity too high? Is the administration cutting too far back? Is the state inspection process too lax or infrequent?
It could be some ,all or a combination of factors. It could also be a preventable accident. The solution is likely to be what happens in airline accidents. Enough people die and something will change.
Before anybody's charged would it make sense to step backand see what comes out of the investigation?
Nah....what fun would that be?
January 5th, 2006 at 12:26 pmDoes every disaster HAVE to lead to a giant investigation to see who's to blame? Can't some things just be accidental? It seems like even natural disasters cause giant investigations. Sometimes nature is simply stronger than man. It is a tragedy, and we should take as many precautions as possible, but many times there are simply risks that humans take, and sometimes they end in disaster. How about we just focus on supporting the families in their time of loss, rather than finding people to blame.
January 5th, 2006 at 12:33 pm[Comment deleted by admin.]
January 5th, 2006 at 12:34 pmMINING STORY SHOWS VENAL MSM
MSM loved generating a story around the mine disaster.. it was a great way to escape the harder issues (despite the fact that mine regulations are an issue).
It shows again the utter corruption of the press in that these 11 lives are worthy of 24 hour excitement, including 'outrage' about the misreporting. This goes beyond the missing white girls stories.
Let's compare the reporting on these 11 lives - which are a really tragedy, one in which we are drawn into the lives and losses of the families and communities. On the other hand...
Iraq - lack of similar coverage on the tragedy of losses of Americans - (citizens and non citizens working for us)
Iraq - absence of coverage of human costs of Iraqi's killed by our intervention (Iraqis killed by other middle east residents are ALWAYS reported on by the NY Times for example, to promote Punch's agenda)
US - Deaths of victims in NO. What about their families? Did we ever see them?
US - Street crime - deaths every day caused by problems of crime?
US - Deaths by forms of cancer and other PREVENTABLE problems (which far exceed even 9-11)
Bread and Circuses is what I believe it's called.
http://www.answers.com/topic/bread-and-circuses
January 5th, 2006 at 12:41 pmJudging by the administrations actions:
+ in who they appoint where (a veterinarian for women health studies still cracks me up)
+ the greed that is blatant in government contracts in the wake of disasters
+ and the steps they have taken to "protect" the environment
the only thing really bugging them is that this occured during their watch and they were not able to push it on to the next administration/generation
THE ADMINISTRATION NEEDS TO BEGIN TO TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR TODAY & TOMORROW - THEIR ACTIONS AND DECISIONS DO HAVE CONSEQUENCES
January 5th, 2006 at 12:42 pmI-Right-I;
January 5th, 2006 at 12:44 pmDo you have any documentation for increased crime in the Houston area caused by New Orlean refugees and the race of the refugees? If so please share it with us.
If not why don't you put yourself out of our misery by finding something worthwhile to do? A useful and honorable idea would be to join a Medical Mission in Africa. There is bound to be some unskilled labor like sweeping floors that you are qualified for.
well, troll IRI, I'll be led astray from this thread for a moment since what you said was completely off the wall of decency....regarding your post #26
WTF is wrong with you, if your attitude is shared amoung your community, the murder rate will continue to rise. everyone bleeds red, regardless of their skin color - wake up and join the century
January 5th, 2006 at 12:46 pmIRI- Why do you hate diverse Americans so much?
Why are you being such a bigot this morning? 12 coal mining families were lied to by the company and the mainstream media. Our soldiers are still dying in a country thanks's to an administration's obsession with power and oil. And now, you've taken yourself down a new low in references to Muslims and African-Americans.
Like Abramhoff, you've showed your true prejudices against anyone who is not white. He supported the apartheid government of South Africa in the 80's and after he swindled Native Americans called them "morons."
Show a spine, you dick.
January 5th, 2006 at 12:52 pm“The Mining Safety Act†of George W. Bush
January 5, 2006
How many hits can the Bush administration take? So far tons—when you deliberately failed to keep your eye on the ball. I believe this mining incident will prove to be no different. The mining explosion in West Virginia is the result of the Bush administration’s undermining the Mining Safety and Health Act of 1977. And the reason for the accident: West Virginia coal firms had raised $275,000 to re-elected George W. Bush for president and in return to have him relax the safety regulations against the miners. Bush had no problem with the bargain. Just as he didn’t have any with the Iraq war: oil and Halliburton. Nor with his “Healthy Forest Actâ€: more cutting away of our forest. Nor “Clear Sky Actâ€: more air pollution. The list goes on. In this past five years this administration has yet to place the American citizen on its top priority list; only those who greased its palms. If Americans will just look beyond the Republicans’ trumped up “culture wars†such as the gay issue instead of looking out for their own interest and well being (which is why we elect these officials) mining accidents such as these wouldn’t have happened.
January 5th, 2006 at 12:52 pmlistening to david sirota on franken - he has some relelations concerning this issue of mining regulations...http://www.davidsirota.com/2006/01/bush-ignored-explicit-warnings-in-2002.html
January 5th, 2006 at 1:02 pmhmmm...
Every member of the House and all the Senators appreciate your continuation of the assault on GWB,this time from the left and from 92 to 2000 on Mr. Clinton from the right.
January 5th, 2006 at 1:06 pmNothing makes them happier than the acknowledgement from the populace that all political issues are those of the president alone.
Was it GWB who attached over 6,000 pieces of pork to the Highway bill? Was it the president who passes inadequately drafted legislation?
No,it's the House which approves the budget and negotiates it with the Senate. Someday soon people will realize that one way to constrain the president is with an effective Congress,but not one in which virtually every member gets returned unless they die,retire or like now with Abramoff,their hand has so many cookie crumbs on it they have to slink away.
How about a series of monthly posts detailing the voting records of some of these buffoons.Why do you guys always just shuffle along with the wind of each news story? Sorry for the rant but it isn't just about Bush as it wasn't about Clinton but the other 535 visible heads of the government get to just slide along without concerted criticism.
"I think that “Think Communist†should hire me as an administrator/blogger of this site. I can get things rolling."
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 5, 2006 @ 12:11
But wouldn't that conflict with your day job at "Fascist State.org?"
January 5th, 2006 at 1:08 pmThis is not to suggest the administration’s budget cuts caused the West Virginia accident, nor is it the president’s fault that an explosion occurred.
I think the language and point of this post is far more accurate and fair than yesterdays ...
Whoever was responsible for giving out false hope to the miners families, and then failing to tell them the truth for 3 hours, needs to be prosecuted!
Unfortunately, incompetence is not usually illegal. There doesn't appear to be malicious intent here folks ... we're talking about people working on the rescue for 30 to 40 straight hours ... it was a cruel turn of events to be sure, but not purposeful. I'm sure that those "inside" didn't even know that the families were told the miners were alive at first ... and then they had to wait to confirm what was actually the truth before going in front of the families officially ...
I was talking about the Niggas who’ve caused our murder rate to jump 70% over this time last year
Leaving the R off the word doesn't soften it in the least, IRI ... cool it.
12 coal mining families were lied to by the company and the mainstream media.
Here we go throwing around the word "lied" again. Why is that some continually confuse "false information" with lieing. Lieing infers purposeful and willing falsehoods ... no one has said that occurred here.
I believe this mining incident will prove to be no different. The mining explosion in West Virginia is the result of the Bush administration’s undermining the Mining Safety and Health Act of 1977. And the reason for the accident: West Virginia coal firms had raised $275,000 to re-elected George W. Bush for president and in return to have him relax the safety regulations against the miners. Bush had no problem with the bargain.
I suppose if a meteor hits the earth tomorrow, that will be Bush's fault as well? How fun it must be to draw conclusions with zero proof. I bet Bush caused Ariel Sharon to have a stroke too ... he encouraged the Jews to pull out of Gaza which did increase the stress on Sharon, after all.
If Americans will just look beyond the Republicans’ trumped up “culture wars†such as the gay issue instead of looking out for their own interest and well being mining accidents such as these wouldn’t have happened.
So it's the gays fault ... if they would just tone down their "gayness", Bush wouldn't have to rail against it, and then we could spend more money on mine safety. Obviously, my logic is moronic ... the difference between us is that you were serious about yours.
January 5th, 2006 at 1:11 pmIRI is a racist and his ideas of what constitutes a concervative includes this "Conviction that civilized society requires orders and classes."
So in IRI's mind a good society must include people put into classes and therefore the poor and downtrodden are just a matter of common society. The rich and well off are an integral part of a civilized society and are therefore deserving of their wealth. For IRI it is just fine to call people nigga's and expect them to be murderers and thiefs. This is what conservatism is for IRI and far too many other nutjobs.
January 5th, 2006 at 1:17 pm"I suppose if a meteor hits the earth tomorrow, that will be Bush’s fault as well? How fun it must be to draw conclusions with zero proof. I bet Bush caused Ariel Sharon to have a stroke too … he encouraged the Jews to pull out of Gaza which did increase the stress on Sharon, after all."
Trying to put an absurdist spin on the assertion that "the mine was an accident waiting to happen" doesn't disprove the assertion. Lets "follow the money", shall we? It is there the truth will be found.
January 5th, 2006 at 1:21 pm#19
"From the budget of the Labor Department not the pockets of congressmen."
Who writes and passes the appropriation bills to fund the Labor Department?...Congress.
January 5th, 2006 at 1:22 pmIsn't this blog 'administered'? I thought hate speech like I-RIGHT-I's would be prohibited. Doesn't the terms of use prohibit such 'filthy' dialog? Where are the administrators anyway?
January 5th, 2006 at 1:23 pmGiacomo: "So it’s the gays fault … if they would just tone down their “gaynessâ€, Bush wouldn’t have to rail against it, and then we could spend more money on mine safety. Obviously, my logic is moronic … the difference between us is that you were serious about yours."
I wonder how many people voted for Bush just because he hates gays and abortion and paid no attention to his record on worker safety concerns or environmental concerns? Far too many people are concerned about "culture wars" rather than what is good and right for things that really do affect thier daily lives.
Too bad you don't think this is a serious issue.
January 5th, 2006 at 1:24 pmI've been on blogs before where the administrators actually seeded the blog with their own trolls, maybe that's why they permit bigots like I-RIGHT-I to post? It would unfortunately explain the permission of speech that's probably against the terms of use, at least if not for this blog, for the blog service that hosts it.
Does anyone know which blogger service hosts thinkprogress? I think I'm going to complain to the hosting service provider about the permission of this sort of hate speech by thinkprogress. It's very disappointing, and I have to say not encouraging to see this as a concerned reader here.
January 5th, 2006 at 1:28 pmDon't feed the trolls.
Mine safety is a very important issue
January 5th, 2006 at 1:29 pmthat requires congresscritters to reverse
yet another example of ChimpCo mendacity
vis-a-vis "compassionate conservativism".
This disaster may not be big enough to
get congress to show some backbone WRT
preznit "chicken little", but writing
to your personal critters is more useful
than arguing with trolls. Trolls don't care
about people's lives and won't do anything
but distract attention.
#13
Welcome new troll.
How about you get on godamn topic then. We are discussing a thread that is here at Think Progress, not some shit you made up about another left blog.
January 5th, 2006 at 1:30 pmWas there ever any doubt that BuchCo had something to do with this?
Worst President ever!!!!!
January 5th, 2006 at 1:30 pm"I think that “Think Communist†should hire me as an administrator/blogger of this site. I can get things rolling."
Yeah, you could take the name Ass Master.
January 5th, 2006 at 1:32 pmAnd everyone else, just ignore the trolls. They're defending an idiot, and it's exhausting work.
January 5th, 2006 at 1:32 pm#25
Ummm, yes.
January 5th, 2006 at 1:35 pmTrying to put an absurdist spin on the assertion that “the mine was an accident waiting to happen†doesn’t disprove the assertion.
But the opposite is also true, which is my point. The mine was an accident waiting to happen is conjecture ... I agree it might be a logical assumption, but without the facts, it's an unfair link. I heard someone say that the lightening storm could've ignited the explosion ... they just don't know what happened yet.
I wonder how many people voted for Bush just because he hates gays and abortion and paid no attention to his record on worker safety concerns or environmental concerns? Far too many people are concerned about “culture wars†rather than what is good and right for things that really do affect thier daily lives.
I'd agree he hates abortions ... maybe he hates gays, I don't know. Some have asserted that these miners were likely Bush voters ... did they seal they're own fate by doing so? Maybe. For those that are concerned about a "culture war", I think they believe their stance is good and right. (While I tend to believe that there is a pull between progressive change and traditional values in the USA, I'm not of the mind that it's the pre-eminent item to decide a vote upon ... still, many of the stances a politician can take fall along their belief system about "culture")
Here's an example of a post that is particularly egregious (to me at least)
Mine safety is a very important issue
(I agree, it's important) that requires congress critters to reverse
yet another example of ChimpCo mendacity
vis-a-vis “compassionate conservativismâ€. (But now you lost me, you're drawing a conclusion without evidence ... the death rate and accident rate has continued to decline over the past 5 years, in spite of the cuts)
This disaster may not be big enough to
get congress to show some backbone WRT
preznit “chicken littleâ€, (Maybe not) but writing
to your personal critters is more useful
than arguing with trolls. (True, unless of course you actually believe the sentence just prior to this)Trolls don’t care
about people’s lives and won’t do anything
but distract attention. (Having seen all the Lord of the Rings movies, I can agree that trolls seem to end people's lives whenever they're "on screen" ... they certainly do not care about miners (the dwarfs, if memory serves) Conservatives, on the other hand, do care about the lives of miners and their families).
Afterthought ... why not just say, "we need to ascertain whether the Bush endorsed cuts contributed to this and other potential accidents ... if so, we must demand congress take action ... while the mines appear to be growing ever safer, we should shoot for zero deaths" and leave out all the inferences about "trolls" hating people and Bush being the root of all things bad?
January 5th, 2006 at 1:47 pm"But the opposite is also true, which is my point. The mine was an accident waiting to happen is conjecture … " Giacomo
So all of those safety violations are just conjecture, nice. This ignoring of reality explains why you're such a devout christian. The only 'conjecture' here, is the one you make. The fact is that mining safety violations are a clear sign of an accident waiting to happen - that's why it's called a safety violation. Clearly you went to the same school of thought that ignored the 'bin laden intends to attack us' memo. Is insanity a requirement for republican membership, or is it an option?
January 5th, 2006 at 1:53 pm#25
“Does every disaster HAVE to lead to a giant investigation to see who’s to blame?â€
Well, there are people whose job it is supposed to be to help protect people from disasters and part of that job is to investigate previous disasters. It's not always what caused the disaster (like a hurricane - although there are those that blame global warming) but why did the disaster cause damage and/or human suffering. Can we protect the people of New Orleans from hurricanes? Investigation says yes we can. Did we, sadly, no. Why? Lets investigate. Can we protect miners from explosions? Yes we can. Did we, no. The powers that be decide what the risks are and do protect or don't. Someday, the San Andreas Fault will cause major devestation but is it reasonable to move millions of people ritht now? Probably not. So the powers that be can be held responsible if they willfully disregard peoples safety in the face of imminent danger if the costs aren't too high!
Investigating is one of the great things that humans do and are capable of.
January 5th, 2006 at 1:56 pmOops. Sorry. I forgot that the religious right is totally against investigation and what they and thier books say is correct is indeed correct and the end of the story.
Sorry
January 5th, 2006 at 1:58 pm(36) Hit a nerve, huh, Giacomo. Well this is for you and only you: “If a meteor hits the earth tomorrow, will that be Bush’s fault as well?†You bet. Why: Bush had enacted the “Earth Invinsible Shield Act.†That means that he undermined the near meteor and planetiod strikes agencies that suppose to protect our planet. Just as just as he did with the Iraq war: oil and Halliburton. Or with his “Healthy Forest Actâ€: more cutting away of our forest. Or “Clear Sky Actâ€: more air pollution. But since you brought up Ariel Sharon’s Stroke: how ‘bout all that greasy poke included in the military aid to Isreal? It’s any wonder that Sharon hadn’t fallen any sooner? Perhaps your logic may be “moronic†depends on if you have read my epic email (which is available on demand) you’ll realize that all these mishaps in the Bush administration shouldn’t have happen. My suggestion, follow this time honored practice: follow the money; you’ll catch more crooks and BIG FAT LIARS that way.
January 5th, 2006 at 2:03 pm#44
"How about you get on godamn topic then. We are discussing a thread that is here at Think Progress, not some shit you made up about another left blog."
How about you reading other blogs besides this one and no I didn't make it up spunge_BOY.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/1/3/111733/1034
January 5th, 2006 at 2:13 pmSo all of those safety violations are just conjecture, nice. This ignoring of reality explains why you’re such a devout christian. The only ‘conjecture’ here, is the one you make. The fact is that mining safety violations are a clear sign of an accident waiting to happen - that’s why it’s called a safety violation
Here's what you're saying (and anyone that has a firm grounding in logic would tell you it's crapola)
A has the potential to cause B or
A is one cause of B
B occurs
Therefore, B must've caused A
This ain't hard folks.
January 5th, 2006 at 2:13 pmMy suggestion, follow this time honored practice: follow the money; you’ll catch more crooks and BIG FAT LIARS that way.
Well ... I can at least agree with you on THAT (mostly).
If you keep coming up with a "evil mastermind" for all the ill that befalls the world, perhaps you should look into whether or not your proof is self-fulfilling ideology.
Next, people will say that Bush has a red light saber hid in his cloak.
January 5th, 2006 at 2:18 pmThink Progress is a project of the American Progress Action Fund.
The American Progress Action Fund is a nonpartisan organization. With the blog, APAF seeks to provide a forum that advances progressive ideas and policies.
This is what TP is supposed to be doing. How does bashing Bush everyday help to acheive that mission? The president did not cause this accident, nor could he have prevented it. I repeat again, I have yet to hear any ideas on how liberals would have actually handled any of the problems that President Bush has had the courage to face. You can't win over anyone with just criticism alone. If this blog can't stopping the endless bash of President Bush, I insist you remove the word "nonpartisan" from your mission statement.
January 5th, 2006 at 2:32 pmIRI is a racist and his ideas of what constitutes a concervative includes this “Conviction that civilized society requires orders and classes.â€
Comment by Bob Loblaw
I'm certainly no racist. I think I'm simply a racial observer. I have observed that Mexicans for the most part work and Blacks would prefer not to. I have observed that Oriental parents are better parents than White parents. I have also observed the well known but little discussed fact that our black brothers make up 12% of the population but do 50% of the killing. That according to the latest figures from the FBI.
If I were a racist I would hate people because they are not white like me. As it stands right now today there are plenty of white people I wouldn't let shine my shoes and some black people who certainly can if they'll do it for $5.
So in IRI’s mind a good society must include people put into classes and therefore the poor and downtrodden are just a matter of common society. The rich and well off are an integral part of a civilized society and are therefore deserving of their wealth.
I don't think people should be "put" into classes but I certainly believe my eyes and ears and know for a certainty that there exists and has always existed a natural aristocracy among people. I believe all people should be equal under law just as they are equal under God's Grace. That is the first tenet of conservatism. But, I do not believe that people by writ of the court or by popular sentimentality be made equal. The leveling of society is the dumbing down of society. This dumbing down is one of the reasons you have not been educated (I'm guessing) to your potential. I could go on an on how Liberal's faulty sentimentality has brought this country to a second class status.
For IRI it is just fine to call people nigga’s and expect them to be murderers and thiefs. This is what conservatism is for IRI and far too many other nutjobs.
I expect those that call themselves Nigga to act like one and so far I haven't been disappointed. Conservatism as a political philosophy is probably not beyond your comprehension but so far your apprehension is at best on par with your understanding of Liberalism. Your comment that somehow well off, "rich" people are not deserving of their wealth or that those of us who excel are not deserving of our rewards is too foolish to discuss. Let's face it kiddo, you don't know shit from shineola you just like to run your mouth.
January 5th, 2006 at 2:58 pmRemember, the trolls just want attention.
January 5th, 2006 at 3:03 pmJust like "Super Nanny" teaches to quietly
return children to their bed when they
try to extend bedtime, it is best to
simply return the trolls to the thread
topic without speaking to them.
#49 & 55 Giacomo:
I don't think you're a dumb guy, so it gets really tiresone sometimes to watch you play this semantics game with people. You understand perfectly well, yet you pretend that you don't. You know a lie for what it is, yet you insist that someone misspoke instead. It seems at times Giacomo that the only evidence that is good enough for you is a complete admission of wrongdoing by the offending party.
Follow me Giacomo. Bush didn't cause a hurricane to hit the Gulf Coast. HOWEVER, his actions led to the inept attempt at rescue and recovery. He placed incompetent people in positions that require a wealth of knowledge. Michael Brown earned his position by being a loyal cheerleader for this administration, not by having any pertinent experience. A competent FEMA Director isn't too much to ask for.
The same applies to the mining tragedy. Again Bush placed someone in a position of power over the safety of mine workers who is a crony. Compliance to safety regulations should've been a priority when making a selection, not rewarding fundraising efforts.
Time and time again this administration's appointment decisions have been called into question. Why? Not because of partisan reasons, but plain old common sense. I would expect some cronies to get positions. I'm sure that happens in every administration. But they shouldn't be placed into positions of importance that require knowledge and experience that they don't have. That is irresponsible and Dubya needs to account for it.
January 5th, 2006 at 3:04 pm#57, Safety regulations are put into law to help save lives, provided they are enforced. If there is reason to believe that those regulations are not being enforced -- as I have tried to make the case in this post -- then we will bring attention to that issue.
At its core, this is a matter that involves how good government can act to preserve the safety and well-being of Americans -- a value that we as progressives believe in.
January 5th, 2006 at 3:05 pmHey ".", enforcing workplace safety, and shutting down the mine as per the suggestion of the safety inspectors would have prevented the accident. This WAS the fault of the president, and his policy of letting industry police itself, instead of enforcing safety and workplace regulations.
You want a suggestion, how about republicans following federal regulation laws, instead of dismantling them! Are you sure you know anything about this presidency? I'm not getting the vibe that you actually live in this country.
January 5th, 2006 at 3:06 pmI-RIGHT-I,
That posting was filled with so much bigotry, racism, ignorance, stereotyping and patently hateful speech I can't believe you live in the same country, let alone are allowed to post on this blog. Clearly the administrators have as low of standards when allowing posts, as this administration has in hiring.
January 5th, 2006 at 3:09 pm"Let’s face it kiddo, you don’t know shit from shineola you just like to run your mouth."
Why is it that shit is the only thing that comes out of your mouth. If your not a racist then why does is sound like you are? - †I was talking about the Niggas who’ve caused our murder rate to jump 70% over this time last year but was trying to be polite about it.â€
"The leveling of society is the dumbing down of society. This dumbing down is one of the reasons you have not been educated (I’m guessing) to your potential."
Your guess is well off. I'm educated enough to know drivel when I see/here it and your tennants of conservatism are pure drivel. How the hell does Fox News and it's owners and operators explain pandering to the dumbest of americans? Fits right in with your tennants. You will never reach the heights of potential that I have.
January 5th, 2006 at 3:11 pmBack on topic. Safety of Americans does mean only safe from terrorists and at that, Bush has done nothing but put soldiers right in the path of terrorists.
January 5th, 2006 at 3:13 pmThat is not the real I-RIGHT-I. The real I-RIGHT-I doesn't write whole paragraphs of explanation. He just calls people names and uses terms like "Filthy Left"
Would the real I-RIGHT-I please stand up, please stand up.
January 5th, 2006 at 3:15 pmSpudge_Boy;
January 5th, 2006 at 3:22 pmYou have a point. I-Right-I has both descended to new lows and increase the volume of sewage spilling from his mouth, so its quite possible this is garbage is from a new faux I-Right-I. There are some similiar points between the new and old I-Right-I; both completely ignore any request for documentation.
I’m certainly no racist. I think I’m simply a racial observer. I have observed that Mexicans for the most part work and Blacks would prefer not to. I have observed that Oriental parents are better parents than White parents. I have also observed the well known but little discussed fact that our black brothers make up 12% of the population but do 50% of the killing. That according to the latest figures from the FBI.
You are about as dumb as a box of rocks (no insult to rocks meant). You make blanket statements about race and you actually believe this bunk.
Okay I'll follow your logic IRI. Jeffrey Dahmer was a white man who killed and ate people. Therefore, I have observed that white people are cannibals. Timothy McVeigh was a white christian that blew up the Fed Building in OK. Therefore, I have observed that christians are bomb happy killers. Do you see how utterly retarded you sound? You can find good and bad in each race. To define an entire race of people by the actions of a few is lunacy.
I expect those that call themselves Nigga to act like one and so far I haven’t been disappointed. Conservatism as a political philosophy is probably not beyond your comprehension but so far your apprehension is at best on par with your understanding of Liberalism. Your comment that somehow well off, “rich†people are not deserving of their wealth or that those of us who excel are not deserving of our rewards is too foolish to discuss. Let’s face it kiddo, you don’t know shit from shineola you just like to run your mouth.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 5, 2006 @ 2:58 pm
Surely you don't belive that every rich person is deserving of wealth because they worked so tirelessly for it. That's absurd. There are plenty of wealthy families that have had money for generations. Their families got rich off of free labor (see slavery). They pass the money down from one generation to another. Bushco have made it easier since abolishing the estate tax. There are plenty of rich people that never work a day in their lives and plenty of poor people that work hard everyday. Take your blinders off and stop these idiotic rants. You show yourself to have attitudes and ideas more suited to 1956 than 2006.
By the way, your bigoted ignorance doesn't make me believe that all white people think that way. You and you alone are accountable.
January 5th, 2006 at 3:23 pmI-RIGHT-I,
That posting was filled with so much bigotry, racism, ignorance, stereotyping and patently hateful speech I can’t believe you live in the same country, let alone are allowed to post on this blog. Clearly the administrators have as low of standards when allowing posts, as this administration has in hiring.
Comment by RightPunch
Hold on a minute, let me look at that....nope. Not a tinge of bigotry, racism, ignorance or stereotyping and not even the slightest bit of hate. Just truth. But go ahead and point out some of that bad stuff you claim is there.
January 5th, 2006 at 3:25 pmSurely you don’t belive that every rich person is deserving of wealth because they worked so tirelessly for it. That’s absurd. There are plenty of wealthy families that have had money for generations. Their families got rich off of free labor (see slavery).
Comment by Str8UpNoChaser
Oh yea, there's old money all right. They are all LIBERALS too. Name one who isn't.
By the way, your bigoted ignorance doesn’t make me believe that all white people think that way. You and you alone are accountable.
I'm not bigoted and I'm not ignorant. I can back up every word and make you like it....even if you're Black. I'm not responisble for what other white folk think or say. I don't even claim about 40% of them.
January 5th, 2006 at 3:30 pm#66 Spudgie: (Hope you don't mind the liberties I took with your ID)
That is not the real I-RIGHT-I. The real I-RIGHT-I doesn’t write whole paragraphs of explanation. He just calls people names and uses terms like “Filthy Leftâ€
Would the real I-RIGHT-I please stand up, please stand up.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — January 5, 2006 @ 3:15 pm
I addressed this issue yesterday. Methinks it's a fraud too. I have an idea of who is posing as IRI.
ranting of disaffected boys in uniform.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 4, 2006 @ 3:21 pm
Private Disaffected posts on a blog
Comment by Giacomo — January 4, 2006 @ 3:36 pm
Coincidence? I think not. Either you both read through your talking points memo today or IRI and Giacomo are the same person. LMAO That’s hilarious! Is that why Giacomo posted when I addressed IRI?
Comment by Str8UpNoChaser — January 4, 2006 @ 4:39 pm
Giacomo's response was:
Talk about a huge reach … anyone who has read both of our posts knows that we aren’t the same person … believe what you want though. His post was just prior to mine and I used the same word …
Comment by Giacomo — January 4, 2006 @ 9:41 pm
I still say he's lying. Borrowing words from IRI? LMAO Giacomo is posing as IRI.
January 5th, 2006 at 3:34 pm"I can back up every word and make you like it"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Racist AND funny. I suppose you'll use torture too.
January 5th, 2006 at 3:34 pmI-RIGHT-I
The fact that you can't see you're a bigot, doesn't change the fact. It just shows how hateful you truly are. You probably aren't aware of this, but the highest income levels in england among any ethnic group is among 'africans'. So clearly this is not a 'racial' issue, but one of poverty. The average african american has been subjected to race induced poverty from crackers like you since the founding of this country. And now you justify this historical prejudice and stereotyping with arrogance and denial. You're a sad little ignorant man.
The fact that this blog even lets you post such hate speech shows they have no committment to managing the blogs in a professional manner. Who's running this place anyway, karl rove?
January 5th, 2006 at 3:37 pmStr8UpNoChaser,
I'm beginning to think that these trolls actually are from the blog administrators. It's the only reason I can think they'd be allowed to post their hate speech. I just read the terms of use, and clearly they violate them.
Is this blog unadministered, or are the administrators just lazy?
January 5th, 2006 at 3:39 pm"Oh yea, there’s old money all right. They are all LIBERALS too. Name one who isn’t." I-RIGHT-I
Richard Mellon Scaife
How many more do you want? There are boat loads of right wing wealthy americans that prey on the poor and ignorant.
January 5th, 2006 at 3:41 pmRightPunch,
See comment #26:
[Comment deleted by admin.]
Comment by Deleted — January 5, 2006 @ 12:34 pm
Think Progress does not want that kind of speech on their site. It was removed once they knew it was here. That was the post where I-RIGHT-I used the "N" word.
January 5th, 2006 at 3:44 pm#70 Ignorance Reaches Infinity
I’m not responisble for what other white folk think or say. I don’t even claim about 40% of them.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 5, 2006 @ 3:30 pm
You refute your own assertions and don't even recognize it. Let me get this straight. You aren't responsible for what other white folks think or say. You get to be judged on your own merits. Doesn't that apply to other races as well? All black people aren't responsible for the actions of a few. All mexicans aren't alike. All asian people don't live the same kind of lifestyle.
You can't make blanket statements about every other race, yet exclude yourself from being responsible for all white people. Get a clue you withering dolt you proved my point.
Thanks for playing. Spudgie, tell him what he's won.
January 5th, 2006 at 3:49 pmA swift kick to the seat of his pants!!!!!!!
January 5th, 2006 at 4:04 pmSince Bush got elected, there's no government to count on for things that provide meaningful security and safety, only the one that wants to open your mail and listen to your phone calls.
January 5th, 2006 at 4:05 pmThe only thing that IRI and Giacomo (being the same person) has done is using his sick racist ramblings to throw us off the topic which is supposed to be about the Bubble Boy's administration's budget cutbacks on mine safety procedures
that resulted in this week's disaster.
We still need to focus on why the media bought that story and along with those in the company and some in state government gave false hope to 12 families who will have to bury their loved ones.
If IRI/Giacomo has any compassion in his soul (which I doubt) he'd understand the anger and rage that those in the
January 5th, 2006 at 4:06 pmcorporate and media hierarchy lied to them.
Spudge_boy,
Yet much of his racist statements remain. I checked several threads, and his racist drivel is all over them. Clearly their administration is 'lax' at best, it's very disappointing. I expected a well funded operation like american progress to manage their blogs better. Clearly they need to hire more experienced people to administer the postings.
January 5th, 2006 at 4:07 pm#57, Bush rewards cronyism and ineptitude (similar characteristics of his presidency), he slashes funding for safety, social and humanitarian causes. What he has is stubbornness, belligerency, ignorance, selfishness, swagger, arrogance and hubris. He does not have the "Courage" to face problems.
January 5th, 2006 at 4:08 pmHell, even problems he has created were not anticipated much less managed.
JIMBO,
I agree, it's a real shame that the site isn't managed better. I'm guessing the administrators are also researchers who are busy doing the hard work of managing the stories. It seems like they could benefit from hiring full time administrators to manage the blog better and prevent this sort of hateful rhetoric from spilling into the threads.
January 5th, 2006 at 4:09 pmWhat does it take to get rid of a rogue President in the USA? Bush is relatively as out of control as Mugabe, and yet he keeps on going like that duracell rabbit. I just don't get it. Maybe Canada should go to the UN and tell it that there are weapons of mass destruction in the US (which is true), launch an invasion and restore democracy for the people. ???
January 5th, 2006 at 4:12 pmIt seems like they could benefit from hiring full time administrators to manage the blog better and prevent this sort of hateful rhetoric from spilling into the threads.
Comment by RightPunch
If all the hateful Left Wing rhetoric were deleted there would be nothing to read. Get a grip and stop pretending you have something to be angry about.
January 5th, 2006 at 4:23 pmThe Davitt McAteer Report to Governor Bob Wise states:
Office of Miners Health, Safety and Training
The Office of Miners Health Safety and Training is the agency responsible for
the health and safety of the State’s miners. During the period 1996 - 2000, a number
of steps were taken which diminished the agencies authority, manpower, and capacity
to effectively address health and safety problems. The legal staff position became
vacant and has not been filled; the number of inspectors was curtailed, even while
the number of inspectable operations was increasing in large part due to the
increased use of independent contractors. Also, during this period the numbers of
penalty citations declined and the amount of dollars assessed and collected was
halved. In addition, the lack of an attorney meant that there was no one to handle
de-certification actions against supervisors who violated the law and the number of
cases dropped to virtually nothing.
The limitations on the elevated dollar penalties also meant that the
average mine inspector’s citation was $60, about the same as a parking
ticket; but in the mines, the violations are typically a matter of life or
death.
The shortage of manpower also has meant that little upgrading or training has
been occurring among the State inspectors. As the recommendations point out, the
project has taken a number of steps to immediately rectify the shortcomings where
possible and we also propose an increase in the agency’s funding, a filling of the
attorney position, a reduction of the level of intent, that inspectors need in order to use elevated penalties, bringing it to the federal standard.
Sounds like Gov. Bob Wise and the democrats of W. Virginia bare some responsibility in this don't ya think? Nah, just like Katrina. The state has no responsibilty. It's a federal problem, especially since a republican is in power.
January 5th, 2006 at 4:27 pmYes and all of the right wing sites could delete all of their right wing rhetoric. Then we could all talk about knitting.
Are you really that stupid?
This IS a left wing site. If you don't want to read left wing rhetoric, don't come here. Guess what will be posted on Think Progress tomorrow? More left wing rhetoric.
January 5th, 2006 at 4:35 pmImagine being born in a house in a company town for a coal mine. Imagine growing up in that company town, where the local grocery is run by your mine employer. Imagine being offered credit for necessities in that grocery store, which is then counted against your father, the coal miner's salary. Imagine at the end of each month having a negative income because family needs such as food and clothing are in excess of the salary earned by your coal miner father. Imagine your coal miner father finally dying from black lung, and being told that unless the son starts working in the mine, your family will be evicted, but not until they pay the company store what is owed. Imagine applying for and getting a job at a coal mine at age 16, and going through the same thing your dad and your family did, and, again, having no way of getting out of the cycle of despair it creates. Imagine that.
January 5th, 2006 at 4:35 pmAre we back to the Me and IRI being the same person again? Look, I don't agree with his manners or many of his ideas ... look at our writing styles ... they're very different. (He's also directly disagreed with me several times)
Don't marginalize my comments because IRI acts like a jerk sometimes.
January 5th, 2006 at 4:59 pmSpudge,
The problem is that they allow hate speech to be posted, and remain (there are several hate speech postings of I-RIGHT-I) on this and the other threads that remain. They don't seem to have any consistency or standards that I can see to managing the site, although the terms of use seem to be clear, and would indicate that virtually everything that this 'person' posts is considered a violation of the site requirements. It's why I question whether this personna is in fact a creation of one of the blogmasters, it's the only thing that actually makes sense to me.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:00 pmAll black people aren’t responsible for the actions of a few. All mexicans aren’t alike. All asian people don’t live the same kind of lifestyle.
You can’t make blanket statements about every other race, yet exclude yourself from being responsible for all white people.
Comment by Str8UpNoChaser
I didn't make any blanket statements did I. Nope, don't think so. I can however make observations based upon patterns of behavior. There is NO pattern of racism among white folk you know that and I know that. There is however a multi-billion dollar operation run by minorities that would like people to believe there is. That's racist isn't it? In addition you might think it's out of line that I use the Nigga word but you don't have a problem with it when the kid on the street and the entertainers use it. That's racist isn't it, or at minimum a double standard. Kinda like the violence blacks do. Liberals totally excuse it. One more thing, I live in a town where 100,000 poor and dumb as shit black folk just moved in. Our crime rate is up 70% from this time last year and there are double homicides EVERY FREAKING NIGHT. Now, on top of that I already know that blacks only constitute 12% of the American population but commit over 50% of the violent crime so I'm just a little concerned that you are offended that I'm pointing out the OBVIOUS.
Liberals, Black race baiters and profession victims don't want to address the problem they just want to call people racist for speaking out. I'm here to tell you that I want Blacks racially profiled for crime, I want the Black leaders shamed for using and abusing their people and I want these people in my city the hell out of here. Do you know why I feel this way? Because Liberals have taken a people and destroyed their moral foundation. There was a time when the American Negro didn't think he had the right to kill and destroy just because he was black and at one time a slave. You feckless liberal idiots changed all that and you did it on purpose.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:06 pmGiacomo,
If you find the stuff that I-RIGHT-I says to be a load of horse crap, then say so. The problem is that you don't you gloss right over the fact that he is a racist idiot that makes your side of any arguement look bad. Call him out on it. If you disagree with it and think it is vile like the majority here, say so. By not saying anything, you are agreeing with what he says.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:07 pmYou don't think that is racist?
January 5th, 2006 at 5:09 pmAre we back to the Me and IRI being the same person again? Look, I don’t agree with his manners or many of his ideas … look at our writing styles … they’re very different. (He’s also directly disagreed with me several times)
Don’t marginalize my comments because IRI acts like a jerk sometimes.
Comment by Giacomo
Oh quit complaining. In a way they are giving you a compliment. Just for the record. I don't think much of my manners either but around here the gloves come off.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:10 pmIf you find the stuff that I-RIGHT-I says to be a load of horse crap, then say so. The problem is that you don’t you gloss right over the fact that he is a racist idiot that makes your side of any arguement look bad. Call him out on it.
Refer to post 36
IRI said ... I was talking about the Niggas who’ve caused our murder rate to jump 70% over this time last year
I then said ... Leaving the R off the word doesn’t soften it in the least, IRI … cool it.
Comment by Giacomo — January 5, 2006 @ 1:11 pm
January 5th, 2006 at 5:11 pm"Don’t marginalize my comments because IRI acts like a jerk sometimes. Giacomo "
Sometimes? I've looked through the threads, and I can't see when he isn't a jerk.
As for you being marginalized - well you seem to do a nice job of making that happen all by yourself.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:14 pm"Look, I don’t agree with his manners or many of his ideas …" Giacomo
What do you agree and disagree with I-RIGHT-I on? I'm curious to see at what point you leave the 'road to crazy town' and steer back into reality.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:15 pmGiacomo,
Why don't you whip him with a wet noodle while you're at it.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:16 pmSpudge,
See what I mean? The site could do with a full time administrator who's willing to actually follow the terms and conditions of the site. So far all I see is a willy nilly wild west mentality. Clearly they're either understaffed or underqualified. Either way, it's a real shame! The research and blog points are very well done from my initial review, it's ashame the blog is so poorly run.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:17 pmthen said … Leaving the R off the word doesn’t soften it in the least, IRI … cool it.
Comment by Giacomo
I'm just going with the popular idiom. I hear it every day on my favorite Hip-hop station.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:18 pmThe research and blog points are very well done from my initial review, it’s ashame the blog is so poorly run.
Comment by RightPunch
I'm sure you're one of those DUmmies that just loves to censor. It's the leftwingthing, right? A bunch of double-standard hypocrites, one and all. Go on back there if I upset you or STFU.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:21 pmWhat do you agree and disagree with I-RIGHT-I on? I’m curious to see at what point you leave the ‘road to crazy town’ and steer back into reality.
Comment by RightPunch
I'll bet you're curious. Anyone right of you is insane, correct? Buck up girlfriend there's no moderator to save you here.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:23 pmI’m sure you’re one of those DUmmies that just loves to censor. It’s the leftwingthing, right? I-RIGHT-I
I'm actually opposed to censorship, but hate speech, inciting to riot, or yelling fire in a crowded theatre are free speech, they're criminal acts. And you clearly are criminal.
The fact that this site doesn't report you to the police, and you aren't jail shows their lax standards, and your good luck - but no more.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:23 pmThe fact that this site doesn’t report you to the police, and you aren’t jail shows their lax standards, and your good luck - but no more.
Comment by RightPunch
Where do you think you are dipshit, the EU? lol
January 5th, 2006 at 5:25 pm"I’m sure you’re one of those DUmmies that just loves to censor. It’s the leftwingthing, right?"
Actually, it is the right that likes to burn books and are scared of boobs. It is you whackos who censor.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:26 pmDon'tcha get it? Heh-heh-heh. We like them 'splosions. Heh-heh-heh. Whether they're in Iraq or in the Sago mine...we like to blow stuff up. Heh-heh-heh. The more 'splosions the better. Heh-heh-heh.
When will people realize that George W. Bush doesn't give a flip about people? They're just tools to enrich himself and his cronies. If some of 'em die along the way, then that's just the price they had to pay to enrich others. Sad, but true.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:26 pmI’ll bet you’re curious. Anyone right of you is insane, correct? Buck up girlfriend there’s no moderator to save you here. I-RIGHT-I
That's clear, the moderator doesn't seem to do much here, and no not everyone to the right of me is 'insane', many people on the right are simply misled, or naive. You are a different matter. You appear to be violating the terms and conditions of the website, and from what I see have even broken the law with some of your posts. Those who 'moderate' here must either be planting you, or are allowing you to post to show how dangerous those on the right can be. In either case, it's very bad judgement from where I stand.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:27 pmActually, it is the right that likes to burn books and are scared of boobs. It is you whackos who censor.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
I'm one hundred percent against burning books with boobs in them.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:29 pmWhere do you think you are dipshit, the EU? lol
I-RIGHT-I
I'm in america in the 21st century, and I recognize you from American 1750. We're both american, but I live in one that freed slaves, and believe in civil liberties. Many on your side don't seem to live in the same country that I do, and hence why they don't honor american values.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:29 pmI’m one hundred percent against burning books with boobs in them. I-RIGHT-I
So you're clearly not a cannibal :)
January 5th, 2006 at 5:31 pmso, about Bush gutting the funds to and power behind the federal departments that over see mining regulations...I agree that Congress needs to be blamed, but we also need to take a hard look at who he puts in cabinet posts, maybe an expose on all of his appointments and their qualifications on 60 minutes will get the word out?!
January 5th, 2006 at 5:32 pmFVCK THE TROLLS, over a hundred posts on this thread, how many of them are about the issue at hand...DONT LET THE TROLLS WIN
January 5th, 2006 at 5:33 pmMany on your side don’t seem to live in the same country that I do, and hence why they don’t honor american values.
Comment by RightPunch
Leftist wouldn't know an American value if it fell on their head. Hopefully one day they'll recognize one when it stretches their neck.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:34 pmFVCK THE TROLLS, over a hundred posts on this thread, how many of them are about the issue at hand…DONT LET THE TROLLS WIN
Comment by Chris in AZ
It was a stupid topic to begin with. You should thank me for changing the subject.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:35 pmthere have been some updates on this thread here including this:
once again this administration is squashing dissent at home but "spreading democracy abroad" WTF, they need to define democracy before they go trolluping all over the globe spreading it
January 5th, 2006 at 5:36 pmOk, that was fun but I've gotta go and pick up my sheets from the laundry. You may now return to your local leftist programming...and I mean programming.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:37 pmif it's stupid go away, I don't think so, I am sick of watching my country getting sold out by some hick with big ears and no brain...you want to find a stupid thread go read what pat's saying that's pretty fvcking stupid (also if you want monitors go to the military blogs, or others, leave the moderatiors out of this one so I can type whatever I want)
January 5th, 2006 at 5:39 pmHere is an American value for you. The freedom to kick your anti-American ass, if you weren't such a pussy that stays hidden away.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:39 pmLeftist wouldn’t know an American value if it fell on their head. Hopefully one day they’ll recognize one when it stretches their neck. I-RIGHT-I
This is a death threat and incitement to violence, and it is a criminal offense. And that's under U.S. law, not EU law.
Clearly this site us unmoderated, and the terms and conditions are not honored by our hosts. It's clear the intent of this person is to distract the blog:
It was a stupid topic to begin with. You should thank me for changing the subject. I-RIGHT-I
Which should have gotten him banned based on those conditions. What a shame that such a potentially great forum is so undermanaged.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:40 pm"Ok, that was fun but I’ve gotta go and pick up my sheets from the laundry."
OMFG that is too funny. Can't even afford your own washer and dryer.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:40 pm“Leftist wouldn’t know an American value if it fell on their head.â€
what american perspective are we talking about, neo-con values I do not recognize and that is what scares me, but this explosion and the insufficiant oversight is not an american value I will uphold
January 5th, 2006 at 5:41 pmRightPunch,
January 5th, 2006 at 5:43 pmAll of the right-wing blogs and most leftist ones are heavily moderated, go post there and leave this one alone
Chris,
Shouldn't your anger be directed at I-RIGHT-I and not me? The fact is this blog doesn't advertise itself as unmoderated, and in fact the terms and conditions say the opposite. I suggest they change their terms and conditions, if they aren't going to enforce them.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:45 pmParking ticket in Washington, DC - $100
Cruising at 7 miles over the speed limit in New Jersey - $140.
Fine for building a shed one foot larger than required in Woodbridge, VA - $ 500
Failing to shore up a mine roof, even after being cited for it over and over again - $60.
Being a coal company executive and knowing that Dubya put your own lobbyist in charge of miners’ health and safety – PRICELESS.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:45 pmif these posts become reguraly moderated then the trolls have one...PLEASE TP Leave these open for thoughts and feelings to be expressed freely, don't have them go through an approval process (the world wide web is huge - go away if you don't like it)
January 5th, 2006 at 5:46 pm"Whoever was responsible for giving out false hope to the miners families, and then failing to tell them the truth for 3 hours, needs to be prosecuted! "
Seriously? When has it been illegal to give people false hope? Actually, its kinda the first part of the bill of rights.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:48 pmI have spent to much stress on IRI and his ilk (including geo metro) to give a fvck what they say. I usually just skip over them to keep my sanity and anger levels down while at work
January 5th, 2006 at 5:49 pmChris,
I'm not talking about 'open', I'm talking about hate speech. Those are entirely different things.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:49 pmBC in RS,
January 5th, 2006 at 5:51 pmI could not agree more, who do I have to lobby to bring down ticket prices here in the grand canyon state (got ticketed 200 for not having the grass cut nicely - while on vacation)
Bush is using recess appointements again, which are supposed to be used in case of an emergency. He now routinely bypasses Congress altogether in staffing our Government. This is another group of incompetent Bush loyalists ushered into powerful positions with no experience. He's already setting us up for some new disasters and these people will make sure no help arrives.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/1/4/19034/24092
January 5th, 2006 at 5:54 pmRP, you gotta take the good with the bad, but any censorship is wrong...it's like you can say what you want, but not this or that, then you cant say what you want...it's bush logic
January 5th, 2006 at 5:54 pm(56) “Next, people will say that Bush has a red fight saber hid in his cloak.â€
January 5th, 2006 at 5:56 pmNo, Giacomo, he doesn’t; I wished he did—because he does have a big fat red buttom in front of him instead!
MP
January 5th, 2006 at 5:57 pmdoen't he have to state the emergency that lead to recess appointments
Couple of things
1) When did people start defending the President against all claims? I am not a Bush supporter but I was a Clinton supporter and when he screwed up no one called him on it faster than I did - the first year he was in office, I thought he was a complete disappointment; Rwanda will forever be a black mark on America's defense against genocide; and, it took a long time for more environmental protections to kick in. On the other hand, I know he was dealing with an adversarial Congress but, regardless, the buck does seem to stop at the President. BTW, I also could care less who Clinton slept with (he's not my husband).
Our President is supposed to be our best and brightest in the political/governmental arena. When I don't do my job right, I am called on it. When our CEO screwed up, he was replaced. If there is a problem with the way this (or any other administration) handles mine safety, I want that improved. I sure know this admin has given a walk to the oil companies (and I know that goes at least as far up as Cheney) so I have to say, I wouldn't be surprised about the mines. Didn't Bush recently tout coal as our solution to the energy problem? I'm betting that leads to a push for production and a blind eye on anything that might slow it down.
2) Since the thread seems to have gone off kilter. If you want to blame morality problems on liberals, you might want to speak more specifically. (Nope, you don't think something under govermental purview is related to the President but this you believe) I am a liberal which means I work hard for my money and give back to the government and the country and the people in it that give such incredible opportunities regardless of class, race and connections. If that system isn't working, I want to fix it. But, that doesn't mean I want King George to come in and make sure only the rich get richer, his friends get the jobs and maybe something will trickle down to the fools carrying the nation with their taxes and their sons and daughters going to war. As a liberal AND feminist (I believe that's feminazi to the fools), my body is my own and I am not going to give it to some guy because that's what women are supposed to do - I respect myself too much. What other moral charges do you have against us? Abortion? Women have always had them and always will - formerly, only rich women could have safe ones. If you don't want them to have them, change the atmosphere for a single woman (there seems to be no problem with all these guys who are obviously but not visibly involved) with a child - that's what I as a liberal work on. Whatever. The basic morality discussion Bush handlers have propogated comes down to let's focus on the sin of lust because we sure don't want anyone focusing on the sin of greed.
January 5th, 2006 at 5:57 pmgreat post jill
January 5th, 2006 at 6:00 pmJill Bryant,
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Your/my core beliefs can/will not be understood by Conservatives. A great book that clearly details this difference is Moral Politics by George Lakoff.
January 5th, 2006 at 6:07 pmRepublicans don't believe in the regulation of corporations that would put a damper on profits. That simply will not do. How long will this sickness go on?
January 5th, 2006 at 6:20 pmChris,
Just so you know Judd banned me, but not IRI. I have to agree with RightPunch, this site is unfortunately poorly managed.
I emailed Judd about it, but he was an absolute prick. This is why I haven't posted lately.
January 5th, 2006 at 6:23 pmrianneet,
Were you one of the republican trolls? Does it get worse than I-RIGHT-I?
January 5th, 2006 at 6:26 pmRightPunch,
No, I was much like Chris, but apparently when Judd told me to quieten down in attacking the trolls, and I told him I'd be happy to when he actually managed them he banned me. Subsequent emails to him has demostrated someone who cares more about his ego than his job. It's unfortunate but true.
January 5th, 2006 at 6:29 pmIRI/Giacomo-
If you two bozos don't have anything legitimate to say about the Bush Administration's cutbacks on Mine Safety programs, then I suggest you leave this blog and let the real experts talk about it.
Neither of you have anything to contribute.
Giacomo, you're just IRI's buttlicker.
January 5th, 2006 at 6:30 pmIRI- You are a crytofacist racist, anti-union bastard.
rianneet,
Ouch, sorry to hear that. Oh well, at least their research is good! Maybe someone will be hired who actually has experience in properly managing a blog. I've been particularly unimpressed the last couple of days, and your posting is disheartening I have to say. It certainly undermines their credibility in my eyes.
January 5th, 2006 at 6:32 pmHi JIMBO,
Miss you guys. I've been asked to not post here anymore by Judd, so tell everyone I said hi...
January 5th, 2006 at 6:33 pmrianneet,
I will miss your posts -it makes me angry to think trolls with filthy, racist, misogynistic rhetoric like I-RIGHT-I are allowed to continue polluting the threads, unchallenged, while you get the boot.
If there is a plan or a reason for it, I must confess it is much too inextricable for me to comprehend.
Pls let us know where you are posting now.
January 5th, 2006 at 6:42 pm#88,"Sixteen tons and what do you get - another day older and deeper in debt. St. Peter don't you call me 'cuz I can't go, I owe my soul to the company store." (Tennessee Ernie Ford)
January 5th, 2006 at 6:52 pmGregor,
Judd wants me to agree to the terms and not 'hit back' at the trolls before he'll allow me to post under my identity, but he makes no promises to enforce these universally. It's bizarre to me, and it makes me wonder who's minding the store, or what kind of 'professionalism' standards are applied to the job. His emails were embarrassing frankly for someone in his position. They were very childish...
January 5th, 2006 at 6:54 pmGregor,
It's particularly ironic on this thread because it's about the lack of enforcement of regulations, and yet here we are with them not enforcing their own terms and allowing these reckless posts by trolls. Instead they attack me, and other 'whistleblowers' who expect a fair response. It's completely hypocritical.
When I figure out where I want to post, I'll let you know.
January 5th, 2006 at 6:56 pmJust so you know Judd banned me, but not IRI. I have to agree with RightPunch, this site is unfortunately poorly managed.
No freakin way !! I wondered where you went. I don't know if you should've been banned, but you did tend to get a little rabid sometimes. That said, I can't honestly say that IRI should be allowed to continue when you were tossed ...
I will miss your posts -it makes me angry to think trolls with filthy, racist, misogynistic rhetoric like I-RIGHT-I are allowed to continue polluting the threads, unchallenged, while you get the boot.
It doesn't happen often, but I agree with Gregor (maybe not as much about the "missing" Ryan's posts)
IRI/Giacomo-
If you two bozos don’t have anything legitimate to say about the Bush Administration’s cutbacks on Mine Safety programs, then I suggest you leave this blog and let the real experts talk about it.
C'mon Jimbo ... I don't have information as to how badly the cutbacks hurt enforcement and worker safety and neither do you. My posts just reflect my opinion that it's a tad early to blame Bush (but not too early to want miner's to have safer jobs). I know 99% of people don't agree with much of what I say, but I appreciate when I'm honestly and thoughtfully challenged ... not so much when people just say "you're stupid" or "you're a nazi". I, like others here, love my country and want what's best for yours and my kids futures ... I happen to disagree on how to get there with some points but, being more of a Rockefellar Republican, I think you'd find that we'd agree on more than you'd imagine.
It’s bizarre to me, and it makes me wonder who’s minding the store, or what kind of ‘professionalism’ standards are applied to the job. His emails were embarrassing frankly for someone in his position.
No need to bite the hand that fed you ... why not post under this new name and just tone it back a bit?
January 5th, 2006 at 8:12 pm"No need to bite the hand that fed you … why not post under this new name and just tone it back a bit? Comment by Giacomo "
1) Because it's not even handed, fair, reasonable or appropriate.
2) Because it's called a 'moral stand', something I doubt you would understand.
3) Because we both know Judd will just censor this.
4) Because it was 'accurate', he was a jerk, and unlike you, I prefer the truth be told, even when it's ugly.
And you are a Nazi, just one that smiles on occassion.
January 5th, 2006 at 8:20 pmAnd you are a Nazi, just one that smiles on occassion.
:-)
Maybe it's not fair but it is his blog to manage ... but you could continue to post without being hateful (I can't believe I'm encouraging you to hang around after being called a Nazi). Like I said, it never added to your argument and only served to denigrate your valid points (when you had some). I don't think Judd (this is my zero basis opinion, of course) wants to censor you as much as he felt you went too far sometimes. Again, I don't think he should've banned you and not IRI (but who knows, perhaps IRI has already been warned). IRI's racist comments this morning are certainly worthy of a ban ... IMHO.
January 5th, 2006 at 8:34 pmSago Mine Violations
Thoughts on the Sago mine violations and the warnings they should have provided.
January 5th, 2006 at 9:34 pmIf anyone ever deserved banishment, it's I-RIGHT-I, yet his comments remain, and apparently those who opposed him are banned. I have to say that personally it doesn't instill confidence in the management skills or effectiveness of the blog masters here. It seems like they could do with some more professional and experienced people to manage the comments. If I gave them the benefit of the doubt, I'd assume they're probably just inexperienced and overwhelmed. Then again, they might just be petty jerks who get off on power trips. Blogmasters tend to often be a nasty combination of both characteristics in my own personal experience.
I wish the blog administration was as effective as their research, they would definitely rise about the crowd.
January 5th, 2006 at 9:56 pmGregor,
Judd wants me to agree to the terms and not ‘hit back’ at the trolls before he’ll allow me to post under my identity, but he makes no promises to enforce these universally. It’s bizarre to me, and it makes me wonder who’s minding the store, or what kind of ‘professionalism’ standards are applied to the job. His emails were embarrassing frankly for someone in his position. They were very childish…
Comment by rianneet
Hi Ryan...good to see you back and in such high spirits. Obviously Judd didn't ban you because here you are. He has the ability to disallow your IP and keep you from even tuning in but he hasn't. It seems to me all he did was slap your pee-pee and ruffle your feathers a little, which you deserved. Hopefully you've learned your lesson and are willing now to take some direction from your superiors.
Welcome back, have fun, see you on the threads.
January 6th, 2006 at 9:42 amIf anyone ever deserved banishment, it’s I-RIGHT-I, yet his comments remain, and apparently those who opposed him are banned. I have to say that personally it doesn’t instill confidence in the management skills or effectiveness of the blog masters here.
Comment by RightPunch
Oh please, I have entertainment value and don't doubt that the numbers on this site have risen since my introduction. You on the other hand are a broken record, not entertaining and frankly don't really add much to the board or the topics being cussed and discussed. The fact is you are breaking rule number 1 right now by disrespecting the people who put their time into this forum. That all by itself ought to buy you a week or two off. Don't say I didn't warn you.
By the way, your handle "RightPunch" suggests assault and I think you should be arrested......dumbass.
January 6th, 2006 at 9:49 amI will miss your posts -it makes me angry to think trolls with filthy, racist, misogynistic rhetoric like I-RIGHT-I are allowed to continue polluting the threads, unchallenged, while you get the boot.
Comment by Giacomo
There you go again, sucking up to the enemy. Are you French or Spanish by any chance?
January 6th, 2006 at 9:54 amlmmfao you libertrolls really do suck just ask Monica.
January 6th, 2006 at 10:08 amI will miss your posts -it makes me angry to think trolls with filthy, racist, misogynistic rhetoric like I-RIGHT-I are allowed to continue polluting the threads, unchallenged, while you get the boot.
Comment by Giacomo
There you go again, sucking up to the enemy. Are you French or Spanish by any chance?
IRI ... learn to read. Gregor said that.
January 6th, 2006 at 12:07 pmI-RIGHT-I,
Just because I told Giacomo to call you out for the piece of crap you are doesn't mean he did or would.
Are you that eager to attack one of your own that you don't even pay attention to who is replying to you?
Man, it must suck to be that paranoid.
January 6th, 2006 at 12:26 pmIRI … learn to read. Gregor said that.
Comment by Giacomo
Sorry, don't know how that happened. Please forgive my unintenional slight. So, Which is it? French or Spanish? heheheheh
January 6th, 2006 at 1:46 pmI don’t think he should’ve banned you and not IRI (but who knows, perhaps IRI has already been warned). IRI’s racist comments this morning are certainly worthy of a ban … IMHO.
Comment by Giacomo
There ya go sucking up to the enemy yet again. So, which is it, French or Female?
January 6th, 2006 at 1:50 pmThere ya go sucking up to the enemy yet again. So, which is it, French or Female?
We both know that you claim the "gloves are off" when you post here at TP. Perhaps you have "keyboard muscles"? You know how I feel about those who claim to be Christians and then purposefully make inflammatory and rude comments ... we've discussed it before. Ryan and I went back and forth several times about the levels of rudeness in his comments ... he told me I was full of crap ... appearantly I wasn't. I'll say the same to you ... don't marginalize your (and sometimes my) message by sinking to a depraved level with your comments ... it seems you just post to goad people into a pointless argument.
For the record ... other Americans aren't "enemys" in my book and I'm Italian.
January 6th, 2006 at 2:06 pmdon’t marginalize your (and sometimes my) message by sinking to a depraved level with your comments … it seems you just post to goad people into a pointless argument.
Comment by Giacomo
On the higher level you are right. You're a good guy and the Conservative faction has plenty more like you. On another level (the one I sink to because it's so much fun) the point is simply to be the irresistible object to their immovable idiocy, hatred and treason. There's plenty like me too but I just take it to the extreme.
I love to rub their nose in it because that's the way you train dogs not to shit on the floor. Some people, believe it or not are dogs and will always be dogs. There's no such thing as inherently good people. All people have to be trained and some need to be made to scrape the carpet with their face to get their attention. Such as these are found among the radicals of the Filthy Left. One more thing, I'm not here to convert anyone by example or otherwise. I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to make a point and make Walking Dead Losers think about something else other than their private parts.
As far as my comments being depraved....only a liberal would think so. Outrageous maybe but there's nothing depraved about telling the truth about people in general and the Filthy Left in particular. In case you haven't guessed by now, I am no humanist or for that matter a humanitarian.
For the record … other Americans aren’t “enemys†in my book and I’m Italian.
Comment by Giacomo
That's a very nice fairytale and if it makes you sleep better at night then more power to you but some of us have sworn an oath to fight enemies both foreign and domestic. You can call them whatever you choose but I'll call them what they are.
January 6th, 2006 at 3:39 pmThe answer is simple: how much did billionaire Wilbur Ross (owner of Sago Mine) contribute to the Bush campanion? Long before this incident I have heard inspectors stating there concerns over their inability to enforce safety issues under this administration. Not just minning but other industries as well. Why the Hell did America let this happen to themselves. Get smart and do something about it. Don't give him three more years to crap on you. Don't blame him; he is just spending his political capital.
January 6th, 2006 at 4:46 pmJohn
"...you libertrolls really do suck just ask Monica."
Comment by RepublicanTeamLeader #157
RepubliscumCheerLeader,
You can't knock it if you've never had it...
What'sa matta' with you, I hear those right wing so-called Christian honies- having lost their "missionary" zeal-
prefer to "speak into the mike"...
Poor "Cheery" (or is that cherry?), not doin'/gettin' your share, huh?
January 7th, 2006 at 1:33 pm[...] http://thinkprogress.org/2006/01/05/mine-inspectors/ [...]
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:50 pmI work in the mining industry and I can tell you now that the 200+ violations were made and caused by the employees,, the workers.Not the owners.......It was the managements obligation to recognize the violations and have the employees to clear them up before MSHA found them.THEREFORE if you cleared them up ,before MSHA found them ,then technically they never existed and you would be a Sentinal of Safety...
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January 16th, 2007 at 2:41 am