80%.
Percentage of marines who have been killed in Iraq from wounds to the upper body who could have survived if they had had better body armor, according to a secret Pentagon study.
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why did 80% have to die…?
yes, it’s the right question but, for god’s sake, why the hell are we having to ask it in the first goddam place…?
here’s another question… why do ANY of those s.o.b.’s still have their jobs and why can’t we get ‘em out, like yesterday…?
And, yes, I DO take it personally
January 7th, 2006 at 12:11 pmYES AND THE PENTAGON RENEWED ANOTHER CONTRACT TO THE COMPANY THAT NA\MANUFACTURED THE BODY ARMOR :DHB .
January 7th, 2006 at 12:11 pmRight in line with the coruuption of this administration
a moment of silence for my fellow Marines who had their lives …WASTED. Shame on you bush and gang, we WILL impeach you and never let up till we do.
January 7th, 2006 at 1:11 pmlive by the sword die by the sword …you get no sympathy from me you are a much killers as the rest… you are payed in blood money and eventually you might die from depleted uranium poisoming… Shame on you all ,Torture, napalm, 150,000 civillians died , destroyed a country and all you can winge about is yourself, Spare a thought for all the parents whos children have been blown up thats who I feel most sorry for …live by the sword die by the sword and to think those children did not even have a sword ..B_stards get Bush to do his dirty work himself …Thank gos I have a Brain
January 7th, 2006 at 1:52 pmthe list can go on and on with the autrosities you have done to a Iraq that was no threat to the USA and had no Links to al Queda ..All they ever did wrong was change the dollar for the Euro in 2000 for Oil buying .
you are the Dogs of War
Go home and stay with your families and be a father to them dont fight Bushes war
January 7th, 2006 at 1:57 pmyou are old enough to be men . get a real job ill even help you visit http://www.realJobs.com ,,,,, theres nothing Patriotic about what your doing its the opposite its called repulsion for the USA
January 7th, 2006 at 1:59 pmIt’s official. George W. Bush is AGAINST OUR TROOPS.
January 7th, 2006 at 2:00 pmThe Flying Scotsman,
Who are you addressing?
January 7th, 2006 at 2:01 pmGuys quit carping on the Marines. It’s not their fault. They signed up to protect the country, to kill people like bin Laden, not to be Imperial Grunts, not to occupy and nation build. It’s our fault for not convincing 51% of America of the truth before it was too late.
January 7th, 2006 at 2:01 pmOur soldiers deserve our sympathy, and our apology for not protecting them from George W. Bush.
January 7th, 2006 at 2:02 pmGeorge bush dont give a shit about the soldiers your canon fodder ,,,dogs of war.. thank God I have a Brain and beleive in non violence as Ghandi did.
January 7th, 2006 at 2:03 pmIts not the dogs of war I feel sorry for its the Iraqi,s How could America make such a mess of things on all sides
January 7th, 2006 at 2:04 pmAs i said “Live by the sword die by the sword” If you had not been so cavalier ( or Gun Ho) in your approach to Iraq the outcome would have been different But you Blew it..
You go to Kill people dont expect sympathy from Me you deserve to be killed …so stuff you mate
January 7th, 2006 at 2:07 pmsometimes the truth can be hard hitting …everybody can make a mistake in life BUR to join the military where your basic job is to Kill or be Killed …Shit man I’d Rather sweeps the streets for a living
January 7th, 2006 at 2:09 pm#10 - What you said, cynical ex-hippie. *sad*
January 7th, 2006 at 2:09 pmYou know in the UK there so hard up for recruits they are now taking criminals into the Army ..yes common house breakers etc ..violent drunkards etc etc…BUT see if you smoke dope they dont want you in the Army …WHY WHY Ill tell you WHY cause if you smoke dope …you will question WHY… WHY the F_ck am I here doing this shit…WHY this is wrong.. man they dont like dope smokers like me and that suits me fine too …….. Smoking dope makes you think …they would rather pump you full of Valium free on the NHS or booze …WHY cause it stops you thinking to your full ..where as blow opens valves inside your head that you dont normally use …
Thats why they give front line troops speed and Nazi gaurds in Aushwich Booze …SMoke dope get a brain
January 7th, 2006 at 2:16 pmOnc again,
The Flying Scotsman,
Who the fvck are you addressing when you say you. Because other than the trolls, there isn’t anybody here that supports the Iraq war let alone rushed into it, we weren’t cavalier and we aren’t the dogs of war.
The types of posts in this thread would better be served if they were posted at a right wing site. You know, the ones that back the Iraq war.
January 7th, 2006 at 2:19 pmMy posts are Aimed at Bush and Criminals but you have to understand they need footsoldiers to do there killing …They are as both evil aseach other none derserve sympathy ….thats what this blog is about ” help the poor 80% of americans getting killed ….Well sorry I cant they live by the sword they should die by the sword….
January 7th, 2006 at 2:22 pmBack to the orginal post…80% of the Marines who received upper body wounds could have survived if they had had body armor; the post omitted that the body armor was in stock just not provided to the troops when requested. That’s the worst part of it, imho.
January 7th, 2006 at 2:30 pmWell, as a fellow Scotsman and former US Army servicemen, I take offense at the live by the sword, die by the sword thing, but that is neither here nor there.
Please start stating who you are attacking. By using the Greek form of “you” you are implying anybody that is reading your post. That is what is confusing. If you mean Bush say “Bush” Don’t leave it open to interpretation.
Otherwise, the trolls will think you are on their side and you don’t want that do you?
January 7th, 2006 at 2:30 pm#19
pzykr,
I posted about this last night in the Abramoff thread. I am not sure why TP went lite. The most important paragraph in the story is this one:
That would be the White House run Pentagon.
January 7th, 2006 at 2:33 pmFailing to supply our troops with basic gear constittues a fundemental breack of faith and i would imagine breach of contract. Not just with the Armed forces but with the American people.
January 7th, 2006 at 2:40 pmFurther more, if you read even a Synopsis of the GAO’s report on the 2004 election you will be faced with the fact that the Bush’s performed a bloodless coup. They subverted the will of the people and have fundementally damaged our “democracy”. This in conjunction with the wiretaps, Abramoff, etc. is the very definition of “HIGH CRIMES and MISDEMEANORS”. though they will probably argue that a midemeanor is not the same as a felony.
I wish i could believe things are going to get better. we have the constituional right and patriotic obligation to demand change! and Impeachment! and a special election.
Im sorry my comments are aimed at the trolls who supported a war, Bush and his advisors , and of course the marines who are doing the killing .
My comments are not intended to offend any Liberals who disagree with the war .. But i use shock tactics as a start to a controversial argument.. pretty caviliar myself i suppose
January 7th, 2006 at 2:44 pmIn an ideal world, in a democratic society, Rumsfeld would have done the honorable thing and resigned from office. But that possibility is about as likely as Bush resigning [dishonorably] from the presidency.
January 7th, 2006 at 2:44 pmI marched against the war in Vietnam because it was an unjust war that sent far too many of our soldiers home in body bags. I never criticized the troops, because they were just doing their job. I fee the same weay now as then, with the exception of this…this war is on even shakier footing than Vietnam. We are breaking every international law in the book and our president is throwing the lives of brave Marines into the gears of the military-industrial machine to fatten his buddies. Bush is building an empire of blood and death based on lies and deceit.
He must be impeached along with the entire cabinet and leadership. We need a caretaker government to help us transition into a democracy again.
January 7th, 2006 at 2:45 pmI agree Bush must be Impeached
In the UK were getting there 109 MPs so far I can give you there names http://edmi.parliament.uk/ EDMi/ EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=29437&SESSION=875
if you sort by Party you will see even 21 Labour MP’s
you can start here http://www.impeachblair.org/article26.shtml
and then Click on EARLY DAY MOTION
where in America can I find the equivelant data
January 7th, 2006 at 2:51 pmIt’s all good FlyingScotsman. I just don’t want you to get labeled incorrectly. We liberals here are doing as much fighting as we can. We need our leaders to step up to the plate. They still haven’t come out and denounced these slimeballs.
I am not sure what makes me more angry, the corruption or our democratic leaders. Where is Murtha or Finegold or anybody?
January 7th, 2006 at 2:53 pmThe Flying Scotsman,
That is great news. We need action on your side of the pond also. It is good to see action being taken. Blair and friends are as much to blame as Bush and friends. As was outted in the Downing Street Minutes and other documents.
January 7th, 2006 at 2:56 pmPlease note that this is just a study of MARINE deaths.
Look at it this way. If the 80 percent figure is anywhere near correct our casaulties would be about 600. So Bush and Rumsfeld, as far as I am concerned, are PERSONALLY responsible for 80 percent of the almost 2,200 casualties.
Our warlord president, who glorifies in the death of soldiers, should be ran down and hung by them.
January 7th, 2006 at 3:02 pmI think the problem of American polititians not being seen to oppose the war is probably one of two things
1/ they are seen as unpatriotic
2/ they will look fools when Bush steals the Oil
if 1 is the case then they must remember PRIDE has killed many people .. I view myself as an earthling myself and not belonging to any race or culture
If 2 is the case then they are common thiefs as well
January 7th, 2006 at 3:09 pmI would add 3/ Many people were not thinking clearly after 9/11 and were inclined to believe Bush/Cheney had some information the rest of us didn’t. You probably noticed they acted so quickly before people could figure out the real situation. Many of the same people who supported invasion in 2003 have since realized their mistake.
I actually heard my red state friends say Bush is really smart, but plays dumb to throw off his opponents. The latter I think is true, but Bush is learning he’s not as smart as he thought he was.
The sooner GB withdraws from Iraq the sooner Bush’s supporters can realize how isolated we are. This is tough as most of them never leave the country and seem utterly unaware that the rest of the world exists.
January 7th, 2006 at 3:25 pmSome time ago I heard a rumor that the Saudi government was buying a lot of the body armor in 2003/2004, using some of the excess manufacturing capacity that our own army did not utilize. And some thought it strange that the Saudi military was buying equipment that never appeared within the ranks of their army. Nobody knows where the equipment went, but you can guess the conventional wisdom is that it went across the Syrian border and was used against us.
And Bush held their hands and walked them across our land. He may as well hand over West Point and call himself Benedict Bush.
January 7th, 2006 at 3:29 pmSeriously, the Bush twins need to enlist and walk point on slum patrol.
January 7th, 2006 at 3:36 pm31 / I would add 3/
when 911 happened ” my first thoughts when I seen Bush sitting in a school with young kids ” I thought thats a bit strange it was almost as if he planned to be their
looking back in hindsight yes I suppose things did go to quickly to war. But I think the world supported you going for Bin laden ..
Even up to a few months ago I could not get round my friends telling me Bush planned 911 …Which I still dont think so maybe
What my conclusions are that Bush for sure knew it was going to happen 100% and let it happen to get to the stage were at today……… After reading last week this ((The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11 - David Ray Griffin)) I can say definately
America needs to do what the book reccommends and that is a full public enquiry into 911 …. might cost a bob or 2 but it would have been better than a 2 triilion war
only then can Americans put there differences aside and get back to being one nation, rather then being split in half like what Hitler did in WW2
January 7th, 2006 at 3:38 pmThat is just criminal. No other way to describe it. Rumsfeld, Cheney and everyone else who sent those men over there without proper equipment should be imprisoned — at Gitmo.
January 7th, 2006 at 4:55 pmPerhaps it has something to do with the fact that Rumsfield has a big interest in the promotion of the generals…suggesting that the troops needed extra body armor - that was already available - would be tacitly (in rumsfields mind) admitting that there was a big error made on his part. He can’t have that.
If you tell Rumsfield that there’s this great new well existing armor plate that could have kept 80 percent of marines hit in the upper torso alive - you won’t get promoted. Bringing bad news, especially news that should have come up prior to the elections, is not a good idea for advancement. So, what do you do? Answer: More classified studies.
Remember that Kerry made a big deal about Bush not sending the troops to battle with essential armor and such? An announcement by the military that they should have given troops this armor would have played into his hands.
Generals are politically savy. This isn’t a big surprise.
January 7th, 2006 at 5:26 pmThere are so many things wrong with this story:
January 7th, 2006 at 7:01 pmFor starters, Bush started this war illegally, and with lies.
Having done so, the Pentagon (Rumsfeld) sent fewer troops than required, with inadequate armor.
The generals said the required armor is too heavy and will hinder solders’ movements. But when soldiers started remodeling their own body armor, the call went out for the more protective kind.
There are 138,000 in Iraq; fewer than 30,000 armored sets have been ordered.
This war was wrong from the start, our soldiers are paying a high price, the military is dangerously weakened for the forseeable future. Bush, Rumsfeld and company go on their way ignoring the negative reports, because they cannot show “weakness” or “errors”.
#31, cynical,
I have heard much the same and to some extent it may be accurate, but when I think more about it, how asinine is it for the president to “pretend” to be dumber than he really is for political purposes? I think Bush is dumb intellectually, I think he is a stubborn man and a shallow thinker, but I think he has some political savvy - an innate feeling that he listens to - and, added to his lack of critical thinking ability, he is in way over his head and we are all paying the price. Just as his life before 2000, he got everything through the connections and favors of his family. Then he started this illegal, immoral war. He should be hanged. That will help rectify all his previous malfeasance.
January 7th, 2006 at 7:15 pmThis is a great article highlighting not only the lack of foresight and prep by the Pres and Joint Chiefs in supplying this stupid war, but also in exposing the debacle that is the COUGAR HEV transport. This vehicle is built to survive IED and landmine explosions, yet the no-bid contract was awarded to a wannabe contractor who HAD NEVER BUILT VEHICLES BEFORE. Consequently, they have transmission problems and are being recalled IN IRAQ.
What. A. DIsaster.
January 7th, 2006 at 7:22 pmAbsolutely right Marie. They decided some time ago that winning for them was more important than letting the marketplace of ideas settle on the best course.
Hence honest debate has been replaced by what we see today. Bush acts like an idiot, and then disparages his critics for calling him an idiot.
January 7th, 2006 at 7:23 pmScottsman, I have many friends around the world and I found general support for going after bin Laden. That was the right thing to do, and the whole world agreed. Iraq was a confusing mess going in and the more we sort out the truth, the worse things look.
January 7th, 2006 at 7:25 pmit’s too bad that a year ago when we found out about the armor shortage, Bush couldn’t have skipped his $XX million inaugural ball and put that money toward protecting the troops…
http://blogdebogs.blogspot.com/ 2005/ 12/ guilt-and-missed-opportunities.html
January 8th, 2006 at 10:50 amSeriously, the Bush twins need to enlist and walk point on slum patrol.
Comment by cynical ex-hippie #33
They’d just get f**ked…(up)…literally…
January 8th, 2006 at 2:18 pm“I agree Bush must be Impeached…”
Comment by The Flying Scotsman #26
Alas Scotsman,
I used to think the same thing, ’til I googled “presidential succession”.
Da*n we’ve got a serious constitutional crisis…
January 8th, 2006 at 2:22 pmBush says 30,000 dead in Iraq but real number caused by 2003 US attack is AT LEAST 180,000
Thats disgusting worse than saddam ……
January 8th, 2006 at 5:49 pmthats like killing the whole population of Aberdeen
January 8th, 2006 at 5:49 pmworse than that its like killing ever man woman and child in Aberdeen
January 8th, 2006 at 5:51 pmSort of off topic, but related: Hamid Karzai, our puppet in Afghanistan, is making nice with Mullah Omar of the Taliban.
January 8th, 2006 at 7:18 pmI guess the pipeline that Halliburton wanted is coming along nicely, and while the U.S. talks the talk about eliminating the poppy fields (the greatest source of heroin in the world) they have more or less given up on efforts to halt production, leaving that to the Afghan government. So, the Taliban is alive and well in all provinces of Afghanistan, our guy, Karzai (former Unocal man) is Mayor of Kabul, Hlaliburton is happy, the Taliban are growing wealthier and stronger. Thanks GWB.
I heard today that the insurgents are aiming at those vulnerable sections of our armor. They are getting better at killing us and when they get comfortable enough, they will be back here - don’t think you’re safer, that would be naive.
It’s so painful to watch this and know they are learning faster than we are. It is a deadly game that the insurgents find themselves more adaptable in. Sigh and sigh again.
January 9th, 2006 at 10:37 amAmerica has only had one terrorist attack ever by Muslims 911 which Bush let happen by the way.so #50 stop scaremongering your worse than Bush almost. What do you think Iraigis could say about your troops killing eh ??
January 9th, 2006 at 2:01 pmAs Ive said Live by the sword die by the sword
January 9th, 2006 at 2:02 pm