National Review Pounding War Drums For Iran
National Review Pounding War Drums For Iran
Even as the United States is mired in a costly and bloodly conflict in Iraq, the National Review’s Stanley Kurtz suggests it’s about time to declare war on Iran:
EVEN BLIX [Stanley Kurtz]
One interesting thing about this piece on Iran from the Independent (linked to on Drudge) is that Hans Blix himself is saying that Iran has nuclear intentions.Given how close we are getting to war, it’s interesting that the blogosphere has still not woken up to this issue.
Without a doubt, Iran is a threat to the region and the world. But the article that Kurtz references discusses the possibility of strict economic sanctions against Iran, not war.
In fact, the Independent article notes “some analysts said it was a mistake by the Europeans and the Bush administration in recent days to use threatening language that could force Iran into even more extreme positions.”
Too often, the right is stuck in one gear in their approach to foreign policy: ultra-macho war mongering.
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for those of us who served in the military, it's time to drag out our uniforms and entrenching tools and dig a bunker. We are in for a hell of a ride, and I can see this bozo president taking us into war with Iran. Don't worry though, it won't stop there! Syria is next.
January 13th, 2006 at 12:04 pmWe have something like 3,000 nukes - how can we talk about banning others from having them? Who put us in charge? Oh, yeah... us.
I heard that the hits to the Canadian Immigration website by Americans increased by 500x after the 2004 election. I imagine that this news will set a new reord high for them.
January 13th, 2006 at 12:08 pmThis is how it started with Iraq, slow drumbeat, hints trickling from the rightwing media machine....drip, lie, drip, fearmonger and next thing you know it's Shock and Awe. Once we start dropping bombs on Tehran, will the rightwing loonies finally come to the correct conclusion that the comparisons of Bush to Hitler are well-founded?
They are.
January 13th, 2006 at 12:12 pmThis is one of the reasons why it is so important to note the lies this administration told in order to send our military to Iraq. We have no credibility in the world right now. Who is going to support us and help form another "coalition of the willing"? Who is going to believe us when we say that Iran is a nuclear threat? Iran and China are strongly aligned due to shared oil interests. With our military already stretched thin, where will we get the manpower to deal with this threat?
Legitimate questions.....I'd like some answers.
January 13th, 2006 at 12:12 pmThe fact is that the threat from Iran is growing worse each day, and we should defend ourselves before they have the chance to kill our troops in Iraq.
January 13th, 2006 at 12:13 pm#2
I'm seriously looking into that too, but being the hard headed dago that I am, I also like the prospect of FIGHTING for the country I once was proud to call my own.
January 13th, 2006 at 12:14 pmReha Shaz has been talking this 'mullah' regime change for some time,thru the Pro-Israel Lobbies. Iran has had enriched nuclear materials for a few years, if not more, by little Known UN document. Thats to say that Iran is a Nuclear Power.
If one looks into the Propaganda pushers of the Iran War, its the Same think tanks and pro-Israel groups, whom thru lobbysists such as Delay, Abramoff, and other "Leaders" that they can infleunce Foreign Policy and create wars. Dead Americans for Live Isreali Ones. I am not Anti-semitic, this behing the scenes "Foreign Policy" buying has got to Stop, no matter what country is influencing the Greedsters, the Congressman and leaders whim should know better, those leaders that should ask the AMERICAN people what they think, not some Partisan groups financed by War Mongers.
January 13th, 2006 at 12:15 pmIf this IRAN war starts, it will be a Repeat of Iraq. Same Players, Same financers, same "Intellectuals" of United States Policy or Board members.
Enough is Enough. Stop the Think-Tanks, and their Lobbying for other countries.
To these People I ask; America First?
So Gary, have you signed up to go help defend the troops in Iraq?
January 13th, 2006 at 12:15 pmGo ahead Gary. You go fight another pre-emptive war. And expect the recruiters to swing by soon. They do target the ultra-stupid these days.
January 13th, 2006 at 12:20 pmLet's be fair. Iran should be required to give up its weapons of mass destruction, as soon as the US gives up its.
And John (#9), Doe away and stay away.
January 13th, 2006 at 12:20 pmThe fact is that the morons that provide you with your information are exaggerating the threat, lying about intelligence and itching for the furtherance of their hegemonic goals. This is a continuance of the PNAC/BushCo policy to take the Middle East by force to permanently solidify U.S. control over the only geopolitical tool that really matters: fossil fuels.
It will continue to backfire and the warmongers will keep lying to their subjects about how swell our imperialist crusade is going.
Ruppert, what a jackass.
January 13th, 2006 at 12:21 pm#The fact is that the threat from Iran is growing worse each day, and we should defend ourselves before they have the chance to kill our troops in Iraq.
Comment by Gary Ruppert — January 13, 2006 @ 12:13 pm
The fact is that IRAN has had Fissile materials for years, and had not attacked.The same Pro-israeli groups are fomenting this Propaganda thru think-tanks.
I say let Gary Ruppert, ThinkTanks, and the Congressman that if THEY allow Bush to go to war, that THESE people go FIRST.
January 13th, 2006 at 12:21 pmLets see How fat they Change their Tune.
Lets let Isreal and Palestine go at it. After 40 years of the Deception from both sides, and the Constant Squabbling over some dirt, is really old. Arm then and let them go at it, When thay are Done perhaps we will have peace. Think about that Israel. Just Nuke each other, you and the Palestinians, do is all a FAVOR, and just end it, Kill each other, that would be peace wouldnt it? If your all dead?
Gary, what threat? So they are trying to create cheap, clean energy. Does that mean that they are going to create bombs? Sure there is a chance of that, but I can barely remember hearing anything about Iran. So we are going to invade Iran, like we did with Iraq, for what?
So that Bush can piss off more of the world? So he can show his supreme power? It is certainly not because he is thinking of the American people or the military. If he is thinking of these two things then can you explain, with any cognitive answer, the following questions?
) Why did Bush failed to do anything on 9/11. He sat there doing nothing, even when he was supposedly told that “we are under attack.â€
2) Why did Bush let Osama get away and has never since pursued him at all. In fact, he has said “I really don’t think about him much.â€
3) Why did Bush lied to Congress and the American public to take us to war with Iraq.
4) Why did Bush fail horibly during Katrina.
5) Why did Bush perform numerous crimes against America since day one and the latest is spying on them illeagally.
6) Why does Bush have ZERO respect for the military. He allowed the military to charge battle field soldiers $8 a day for food while being taken care of in a Military hospital. He also forces them to find their own way home after service. He has the dead shiped as cargo in commercial airlines, rather than the proper way with the honor gaurd.
I could really go on, but I would like to see what kind of rebuttle you have and what FACTS do you have that you can dispute these little know FACTS?
January 13th, 2006 at 12:25 pmWhat? They have to be kidding. The US public has already come to the conclusion that it regrets the Iraq war, it's not the right time for them to get their panties in a bunch over Iran.
Stoopidity Archive
January 13th, 2006 at 12:28 pmhttp://stoopidityarchive.blogspot.com
Gary Ruppert - go rent Fahrenheit 9/11... you'll understand the reasons the Oil Junta in Washington wants to bomb Iran.
You have a greater chance of being killed by a car, second hand smoke or your child than a terrorist attack. You're fighting the wrong battle in the Middle East.
January 13th, 2006 at 12:33 pmI thought I should never say this, but the Delay Russian Oil Debacle has brought this forward. When Yukos oil Crashed the Head Gangster Mikihail Khodorovsky was arrested, the Money went to Rothschild bank, thru riggs bank.
Now it gets Interesting. Cohorts of Mikihail Khodovrosky in their hasty retreat to Israel Asylum offered free OIL. (secret pipeline project)
Putin thru this Move, Secured his country be removing the Edomites, and shutting off the free flow of oil (aid) to Israel.
Given the past Spying of these groups such as AIPAC, PNAC, AEI, RAND (Whos man is involved) wouldnt the country be much safer. That is if we cannot get the Congress to quit accepting money and goods and propaganda from these people then we need to close them down.
Again I stress the point of not being anti-semitic. I am anti-Fools, and anti think-tanks, and anti-lobbyists, and anti-corruption, and anti-hegemonic
January 13th, 2006 at 12:34 pmGeorgie has wet dreams about Armageddon. Impeach the bastard.
January 13th, 2006 at 12:35 pmIs that an atmospheric change I feel? There seems to be a draft in the room.
January 13th, 2006 at 12:37 pmI would give anyone the shirt from my back. Dont steal it from me thru Laws, or thru leaders, or thru the Media.
All one needs to do is ask, openly and honestly.
January 13th, 2006 at 12:37 pmIs this so hard to contemplate?
#7
Make no mistake, Iran's military capability is not like Iraq's by a large distance.
http://www.rense.com/general69/dayone.htm
Or, try this:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/airforce.htm
January 13th, 2006 at 12:43 pm"Without a doubt, Iran is a threat to the region and the world." . . . Judd
Gee, without a doubt, I didn't know that. What's your evidence, statements by George Bush? Now we can look for statements like this: "According to Think Progress, Iran is, without a doubt, a threat to the region and the world."
Unless, of course, you publish a retraction.
January 13th, 2006 at 12:59 pmImpeach the theocratic knuckle draggers before they invade another country.
January 13th, 2006 at 1:04 pmAgree with Don. The idea that Iran is a greater "threat to the region and the world" than, oh, say, the United States is not only baseless but ludicrous.
Put down that Kool-Aid, Judd -- it's not good for you....
January 13th, 2006 at 1:05 pmC'mon, Judd. Anyone can see from this quote that Stanley Kurtz DID NOT "suggest it’s about time to declare war on Iran." All this quote says is that the blogosphere has not yet "woken up" [should be "awakened"] to the issue of Iran's nuclear intentions.
This quote hardly qualifies as right wing "ultra-macho war mongering." It is, instead, another example of the way in which Judd tends to mischaracterize people's words and actions. You know, sort of like men-only Owl Club member Teddy Kennedy complaining that Sam Alito was against equal rights for women.
I hope the Left continues these kinds of tactics. I'll be here to call them on it from time to time. But in the meantime, the American people will continue to see the Left for the hypocritical, intellectually bankrupt bullies they are.
January 13th, 2006 at 1:06 pmThe fact is that the threat from Iran is growing worse each day, and we should defend ourselves before they have the chance to kill our troops in Iraq.
Comment by Gary Ruppert #5
Scary Pookbutt,
You ignorant as*bandit, don't you know that the Iranians are doing only what we'd be doing (actually a lot less than you homocidal dipsh*t racist pigs would be) if some foreign power had invaded Mexico or Canada to "spread their dogma"?
NOOO, you can't see that because you're an ignorant, racist, Al-Cracker bastich who thinks your American sh*t doesn't stink, and that YOUR and your inbred children and families' lives are MORE PRECIOUS than Iranians, Iraqis, Syrians, homosexuals, Blacks, Mexicans etc, etc, etc...
You make me want to puke all over you, then slap the dog sh*t out of you to wake you up...
Can vegetation be reasoned with?
January 13th, 2006 at 1:10 pmGiven that the Bushies are not smart enough to alter their game plan, it seems reasonable to think that the members of congress , whose careers are in peril this year, will get the "beans" to step on the idiot's foot, and say "oh huh- uh". The american people are hardly going to be willing to support those damn liars again. But I am thankful that they are so stupid as to think they can do this crap again. They have no money, no troops, and no reason.
January 13th, 2006 at 1:12 pm#25 - Kurtz says "Given how close we are to war.. ". How does Kurz know we are close to war? Why is he suggesting we are close to war if we are not? The Bushies are trying this on for size. As for bullying tactics from the left, I have yet to meet a progressive bully. I have met plenty of progressives that refuse to roll over for the fascist nonsense, not so cleverly disguised as concern forn the country, that is generated by today's Republican party
January 13th, 2006 at 1:17 pmMerkel has endorsed Bush' views on Iran. I wonder what the German people are thinking on the subject, since they were not supportive of the preemptive invasion of Iraq and protested so.
January 13th, 2006 at 1:34 pm#25 If the "Left" as you put it is always lying, and your president is great and perfect, perhaps you can explain all of the lies from your Party? How about all of the scandals, which by the way in case you are not paying attention, are Republicans.
) Why did Bush fail to do anything on 9/11. He sat there doing nothing, even when he was supposedly told that “we are under attack.â€
2) Why did Bush let Osama get away and has never since pursued him at all. In fact, he has said “I really don’t think about him much.â€
3) Why did Bush lied to Congress and the American public to take us to war with Iraq.
4) Why did Bush fail horibly during Katrina.
5) Why did Bush perform numerous crimes against America since day one and the latest is spying on them illeagally.
6) Why does Bush have ZERO respect for the military. He allowed the military to charge battle field soldiers $8 a day for food while being taken care of in a Military hospital. He also forces them to find their own way home after service. He has the dead shiped as cargo in commercial airlines, rather than the proper way with the honor gaurd.
I could really go on, but I would like to see what kind of rebuttle you have and what FACTS do you have that you can dispute these little know FACTS?
January 13th, 2006 at 1:36 pmI could really go on, but I would like to see what kind of rebuttle you have and what FACTS do you have that you can dispute these little know FACTS?
Comment by RemoveBush #30
You'll never hear from that inbred again...
...at least not directly...
January 13th, 2006 at 1:40 pmbig papa - yeah I know, but it makes them go away so the grownups can talk. :)
January 13th, 2006 at 1:42 pm#26 big papa
Can vegetation be reasoned with?
No, but I'm going to try to reason with you anyway.
January 13th, 2006 at 1:44 pmWhy do you live in this country? You obviously hate it, and your fellow citizens as well. I assume that you love freedom, by the way you're always viciously attacking opposing viewpoints without fear of retribution, yet you attempt to equate America with the likes of Iran. I've been reading your comments for a while, and I just don't get you.
Name calling and hatred seem to be the only tools you're able to weild as you desperately lash out at everyone. Have you ever tried to engage anyone in some meaingful conversation? Do you even know how to be civil to someone you disagree with? You're so blinded by hatred that you can't see anything clearly--you should seek help--seriously.
Neocons are salivating at the opportunity.
January 13th, 2006 at 1:55 pmDamn, this really is an open site, I thought Judd would have erased my remarks by now.
There's plenty of info out there on Iran. Here're two items that pretty well sum it up.
In particular, after almost three years of exhaustive, go-anywhere, see-anything, interview-anyone inspections, IAEA inspectors have yet to find any indication that Iran has -- or ever had -- a nuclear weapons program.
http://www.antiwar.com/prather/
The Iranians are about to commit an "offense" far greater than Saddam Hussein's conversion to the euro of Iraq’s oil exports in the fall of 2000. Numerous articles have revealed Pentagon planning for operations against Iran as early as 2005. While the publicly stated reasons will be over Iran's nuclear ambitions, there are unspoken macroeconomic drivers explaining the Real Reasons regarding the 2nd stage of petrodollar warfare - Iran's upcoming euro-based oil Bourse.
January 13th, 2006 at 1:57 pmhttp://globalresearch.ca/articles/CLA410A.html
Iran is doing what Bush said Iraq was doing... too bad the war on terra his been so misdirected...
January 13th, 2006 at 2:05 pmWhy do you live in this country? You obviously hate it, and your fellow citizens as well
Comment by Michael #33
I hate this country under your gods Bushiva and L'il Dick...
I hate the racist, sexist, facist, ignorant, unintelligent,inbred (so-called conservative) supporters of the criminal Bushite junta/republiscum party that has occupied our government...
I hate that the Supreme Court disregarded the "majority" of voters in 2000, and sided with this mass murdering, corrupt, mendacious, profiteering band of plutocratic thugs...
But most of all I hate smug, spineless,mindless, wimpy as*ed, Bushite beeotches like YOU, who profess to even know how to carry on a "civilized" debate...
Inbred Michael, if you voted for GW Bush at ANY time in your life you don't know your a*s from a hole in the ground, and I don't attempt carrying on conversations with as*holes because they very rarely have anything to contribute except hot air...
January 13th, 2006 at 2:06 pmNo, but I’m going to try to reason with you anyway.
You say, but....
Why do you live in this country? You obviously hate it, and your fellow citizens as well.
This isn't reason, it's knee-jerk idiocy. Opposing the current regime, who were after all never legally elected, doesn't equate to opposing the country. Try again.
I assume that you love freedom, by the way you’re always viciously attacking opposing viewpoints without fear of retribution, yet you attempt to equate America with the likes of Iran.
Comparing two nations as a whole is meaningless. How the US compares to Iran depends entirely on which aspect of the two countries you compare.
Personal freedom? The US is certainly better, although Bush and his cronies have been working hard to change that.
But if you compare which is more of "a threat to the region and the world," there's no doubt that it's the US. Iran hasn't launched an unprovoked war against a country on the other side of the world. Even if Iran has a nookular program, it's nothing compared to the one the US has had for years. And so on.
January 13th, 2006 at 2:16 pmJimmy Carter: "Iran is a threat to the region and the world"
January 13th, 2006 at 2:16 pmRonald Reagan: "Iran is a threat to the region and the world"
George H. Bush: "Iran is a threat to the region and the world"
Bill Clinton: "Iran is a threat to the region and the world"
George W Bush: "Iran is a threat to the region and the world"
Judd Legum: "Iran is a threat to the region and the world"
United Nations: "Iran is a threat to the region and the world"
TP lefties: "Iran is peaceful and never was a threat to anyone."
Let the wingnuts pound the war drums all they want. Can you imagine what would happen if Boy George attacked Iran. The Iranians would invade Iraq in force with sophisticated equipment and a bottomless supply of troops. The Russians, the Chinese, and India would be super pissed off and gladly back them. It's time to understand that Boy George is a lunatic leaving in his own weird paranoid schizophrenic fantasy and he has every intention of bringing us all down with him.
January 13th, 2006 at 2:19 pmSo if enough people say it, that makes it true?
January 13th, 2006 at 2:19 pmSteed Lankershim - Show me what kind of threat they are? What have they done that shows that they are a threat? What terrible things in recent history shows this?
Just because someone says that they are a threat, does not necessarily mean that they are. What proof is it that they are? And they are that much of a threat that we have to invade and attack them? What ever happened to America being a diplomatic country? I'll answer that for you! King George Bush.
January 13th, 2006 at 2:22 pmI saw this coming. Is it really a surprise? Syria and N. Korea, next stop.
January 13th, 2006 at 2:28 pm"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." - - Edward Abbey
January 13th, 2006 at 2:30 pmThe next war should be fought only by those who strongly favor such a war--regardless of age, sex, or health. I would have Condi, Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush on the frontlines along with Fox News and the editors of the National Review. What the hell--send Frist, Spector, Hastert, and any other elected official who still believes we must stay the course in Iraq along with them.
January 13th, 2006 at 2:44 pmTP lefties: “Iran is peaceful and never was a threat to anyone.â€
Comment by Steed Lankershim #39
Screed Lame-o-sh*thead,
All of those past presidents and organizations who declared Iran a threat did so because they had/have their own political agendas...
The one incident that Iranians perpetrated in "fairly recent" history that one can definitively accuse them of was the Iranian hostage crisis...
Why did those Iranians kidnap the American diplomats Screed?
January 13th, 2006 at 2:44 pmFor starters, ever heard of the Iran and Libya Sanctions Act of 1996? I didn't think so.
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1996_cr/h960618b.htm
January 13th, 2006 at 2:57 pmThis is worth reading. Bill Clinton at the signing ceremony, August 5, 1996.
http://www.fas.org/news/iran/1996/31395828-31401086.htm
CLINTON: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It's good to be joined
today by Senator D'Amato and Congressmen Cardin, Gejdenson, Gilman,
King and Matsui; family members of the victims of Pan Am Flight 103;
and two brave Americans who suffered the nightmare of being taken
hostage in the Middle East.
We come together around a common commitment to strengthen our fight
against terrorism. Terrorism has many faces, to be sure, but Iran and
Libya are two of the most dangerous supporters of terrorism in the
world. The Iran and Libya sanctions bill I sign today will help to
deny those countries the money they need to finance international
terrorism. It will limit the flow of resources necessary to obtain
weapons of mass destruction. It will heighten pressure on Libya to
extradite the suspects in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103.
From the skies over Lockerbie to Khobar Towers, from the World Trade
January 13th, 2006 at 3:03 pmCenter to Centennial Park, America has felt the pain of terrorism
abroad and at home. From the Tokyo subway to the streets of Tel Aviv,
we know that no nation is immune. We have not yet solved all these
tragedies; we will not rest until we do so. But one thing is clear: to
succeed in this battle we need to wage it together, as one America
leading the community of civilized nations.
Steed,
Those sanctions were imposed because Iran was helping the palestinian 'freedom fighters/terrorists', and we didn't like it. It's similar to help we gave the Afghan freedom fighters just a few years earier against the russians. It wasn't because those countries were a 'threat' to their neighbors, it was because they were playing geo-politics without having big enough guns (unlike russia/china) to back up their work. Surely you're smart enough to tell the difference, aren't you?
January 13th, 2006 at 3:04 pmever heard of the Iran and Libya Sanctions Act of 1996?
Yes, but that isn't evidence, it's simply more of the same politically motivated allegations.
Present any evidence that Iran is a greater "threat to the region and the world†than the United States. Put up or shut up.
January 13th, 2006 at 3:05 pmSteed Lankershim - OK what does that prove? There are many countries that have been treated the same. N. Korea has nuclear capability, but there is no talk of invading them? WHY? Could it be because there is no OIL for us to bother with?
You are gona have to do better than that.
January 13th, 2006 at 3:05 pmAnd Steed, only the US signed in sanctions, because the international community recognized our hypocrisy in the matter. Something I would hope someone like yourself would be smart enough to do to. Come on, show me you've got some wits left rattling around in that old cabassa of yours.
January 13th, 2006 at 3:06 pmSteed,
I agree that you are intentionally misquoting people. It would be like me quoting:
Nixon: "I'm a threat to world stability"
Ford: "I'm a threat to world stability"
Reagan: "I'm a threat to world stability"
Bush: "I'm a threat to world stability"
Bush: "I'm a threat to world stability"
Things they've done and said make those statements more true than the one's you've written about Iran. Please don't fabricate quotes, and don't be so lazy. If you don't have real quotes to post, don't post lies. It really destroys any credibility you're trying to establish.
January 13th, 2006 at 3:08 pmYou are a fvcking scaredy cat. Pussy.
Yeah, we need another preemptive war like you need another hole in your head.
January 13th, 2006 at 3:12 pmYou know what, your argument is very convincing. I don't know what I was thinking. Iran is a very peaceful nation. I wonder why my wife's family left that wonderful country, Iran, to come to come to the freedoms we enjoy in this awful country. I can't believe she doesn't want to go back.
January 13th, 2006 at 3:18 pmWatching these blogs, I'm reminded of the college professor who found himself at a professional wrestling event - he did not cry out "this stuff is fake." He instead made for the exit saying, "Excuse me, fine sirs and ladies. I must access the arena's tobacconist, as my can o' snuff appears to have run empty. Back in a jiff."
This country is majority-ruled by the intellectually checked products of underfunded idiot-factory schools (or not, but Diebold will make this moot).
Expecting abstract thought and deliberation from the audience at a roller derby event? Think again. As you delude each other that you're making a difference, I recommend you spend at least a little of your energy getting used to the fact that this country is eff-double-ucked.
Carry on.
January 13th, 2006 at 3:18 pmWhere'd Inbred Michael go?
Guess I was too UNcivilized for his genteel taste...
January 13th, 2006 at 3:21 pmSteed Lankershim - Nobody is not saying that Iran is a great place to live. I for one have never lived there, or visited.
That is not the issue. The issue is that we are talking about invading and attacking a country AGAIN! Geeze Wake UP.
Don't you think that there are other means to handle a situation? Why do you think that killing is the best answer? I would rather talk with them and try to work out a mutual agreement.
I guess that is always going to be the mentality of the Republicans; Kill and rape other countries for their OIL.
January 13th, 2006 at 3:22 pmThere is a much broader picture to all of this that no one seems to be looking at. THE CHINESE.
The Chinese, which own Vushco and the United States, is slowly reaching into central and south america. He is making trade agreements with all of those countries. We are trying to make trade agreements with them too. If the CAFTA go through, this country is done. We would be competing with the Chinese, losing before getting to the starting line.
Now, China is also making agreements with Iran, Iraq, yes Iraq, and other middle east countries. The US will be pushed out in just a few more yearw, and Bushlandia will be looking to Africa to stasrt his world dominance. Given the state we are in now, the Chinese, North Koreans and Iran will be ruling the world of George W. Bush within 5 years. >Oh we some atomic bombs, enough to destroy the world, but can and will we?
With Bushlandia aat the helm, yes we will.
January 13th, 2006 at 3:33 pmThe issue, I thought, is whether or not Iran is a threat to the region and the world. It has been pointed out that no one has concluded that we are going to war and Judd was wrong to make that conclusion. Has that option been looked at? Yes, since 1976, at least. See the Carter Doctrine. Although Carter didn't want to go to war, he thought it was a possibilty and was partly why he proposed to re-enact the draft. Which did happen. You wanted some evidence on why Iran is a threat. I gave you some places to start. Take it from there, ignore it if you wish.
January 13th, 2006 at 3:33 pmSteed validates the point that if a thing is said over and over that people will eventually mistake it for the truth.
If that many generations of presidents claimed something was dangerous, with little incident over the duration, then which is more likely - the mantra is correct or you have been brainwashed?
Hint: you have been brainwashed... You are more likely to be killed by an airborne hockey puck than terrorists. Yet, on cue, the neocons have you pissing your pants and wanting to pre-emptively blow up another country that hasn't bothered us. Where do you people draw the line Steed? I mean comrade...
January 13th, 2006 at 3:38 pmSteed, the problems exist and they start with a group who sings of Reagonomics while the economy grows for exactly the reasons Keynes said it would: deficit spending. The on-budget deficit the last 2 fiscal years exceeded $1 trillion ($517B FY04 and $504B FY05). GWB is on track to double the country's debt in 8 years, the Congress has passed bills that purport to reduce the deficit but do no such thing.
January 13th, 2006 at 3:39 pmRumsfeld is a huge incompetent,look at the planning in Iraq,poor logistics,no human resource plan(www.sigir.mil),electricity in Baghdad the last 2 weeks has averaged 3.7 hours/day (State Dept. weekly report 1/12/06)und so weiter,und so weiter.
And you want to follow this bunch of buffoons? I have been a Republican all my life. I know Republicans,and George Bush is no Republican.
Based on spending habits,burgeoning bureaucracy and diminished personal freedom,I actually think he's a Democrat!.Except that all the Democrats won't claim him either.
(DD214 available upon request, 1969-72)
If the situation in Iran is similar to "Iraq In 2002 and 2003″ we can safely expect prevarications, lies, and distortions regarding Iran as well.
In case there is still any doubt left:
James Risen’s State of War: the Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration, may hold bigger secrets than the disclosure that President George W. Bush authorized warrantless eavesdropping on Americans. (...) The result is that it is no longer credible to maintain that the failures in the Iraqi intelligence were the product of a broken intelligence community. The Bush administration deliberately fabricated the case against Iraq, lying to Congress and the American people along the way."
Proof Bush Deceived America
It's obvious what facts will be "fixed around the policy" this time around: The fact that Iran has a nuclear programme. Never mind that it is peaceful, and Iranians are entitled to generate their energy as they very well please.
Beware the calls for something "be done about Iran".
January 13th, 2006 at 3:40 pm#60
January 13th, 2006 at 3:45 pmOur foreign policy under the Bush administration has been incredibly clumsy, short-sighted and ignorant in dealing with Iraq. One can understand the anxiety and lack of faith that a number of posters express in the ability of the Bush administation to handle any developing situation with Iran. Iran going nuclear will require a multilateral solution, not a unilateral solution. While it would be foolish foreign policy to take any military option off the table, it would be equally foolish to undercut Russia and China (as well as the rest of the international community) in the handling of this situation. The Iraq debacle undercut our credibility immensely in most areas of foreign policy. I truly hope the Bush administration takes a more nuanced and thoughtful approach this time around, or the United States is in for some serious trouble down the road.
Serious question for the neocons - Who are you more likely to attack - your friend or the playground bully who is beating up all of your friends?
Violence only begets more violence. Consensus and compromise are the mutually respectful ways to solve conflict. If I can teach this to high school students after a high-fructose-corn-syrup laden lunch, then surely we can teach it to a grown man with degrees from Yale and Harvard... (that last part was sarcastic... I know that a leper has better social skills that Peeping George)
January 13th, 2006 at 3:46 pmWow, unbelievable, I never thought of it that way. I wonder how many people have been killed by a hocky puck. I bet you have that stat. Probably a hell of a lot more than terrorism. We should impose sanctions on hockey.
Fuuny, no one has given any evidence that Iran is ruled by a peaceful government.
January 13th, 2006 at 3:47 pmRonald Reagan: “Iran is a threat to the region and the worldâ€
Comment by Screed Lankershim — January 13, 2006 @ 2:16 pm
So what was he doing selling them weapons? This whole mess began because Your Eminence coddled terrorists. Why don't you begin your next post wiht an apology for that, Screed?
January 13th, 2006 at 3:48 pmFuuny, no one has given any evidence that Iran is ruled by a peaceful government.
Nobody's given evidence that the US is, either.
January 13th, 2006 at 3:51 pmWhat does it matter? The US is not ruled by a peaceful government. War is the first thing on the Bush administartion's minds.
January 13th, 2006 at 3:52 pmYou just beat me Gary.
January 13th, 2006 at 3:52 pmIt’s obvious what facts will be “fixed around the policy†this time around: The fact that Iran has a nuclear programme. Never mind that it is peaceful, and Iranians are entitled to generate their energy as they very well please.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — January 13, 2006 @ 3:40 pm
Gregor, that reminds me...
"Free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction."
Milwaukee, Wis., Oct. 3, 2003
If Bush believes what he says, then pre-emptive wars and our own nuclear program are hypocritical...
(for other horrifying and contradictory quotes... http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_W._Bush)
January 13th, 2006 at 3:54 pmSpudge: GMTA. :)
January 13th, 2006 at 3:54 pmFuuny, no one has given any evidence that Iran is ruled by a peaceful government.
Comment by Steed Lankershim — January 13, 2006 @ 3:47 pm
Steed the proof would be in the lack of them attacking us...
But there's plenty of proof that we are ruled by war-mongering theocrats. And that doesn't scare you? You're blinded by the bling of neurotic patriotism... Incredible.
January 13th, 2006 at 3:58 pmStr8Up - Who is going to support us and help form another “coalition of the willing� I'm sure we can bully East Timor and Latvia into joining. Then it won't be unilateral.
go to IMPEACHBUSH.ORG
Please?
January 13th, 2006 at 4:03 pm#59 Paul in Mexico.
January 13th, 2006 at 4:15 pmYou're right. China may do what Russia couldn't. Bury us.
China's need and demand for natural resources, and the limited supply the world has, is going to put us in direct competition with them. They steal ideas and reproduce them cheaper, causing us large trade deficits. They are building themselves up on all fronts, to be a dominant world power.
One of Rome's big downfall, besides corruption in their government(sound familiar?), was they stretched their resources way beyond what they could handle, there by weakening what strength and power they did have. Less and less monies available to keep the country going, a failing infrastructure, corruption on all levels, leaving themselves wide open to be overthrown or overrun.
A case of history repeating itself?
"Without a doubt, Iran is a threat to the region and the world." Judd Legum, Thinkprogress.org
I wonder if he's still convinced. Because his robots have sure provided plenty of evidence they're not. Bwhahahahahaha!
January 13th, 2006 at 4:18 pmI wonder if he’s still convinced. Because his robots have sure provided plenty of evidence they’re not.
You want to see a robot, look in the mirror.
And if you want us to be convinced, try coming up with actual evidence to support your case.
January 13th, 2006 at 4:21 pmWithout a doubt, Iran is a threat to the region and the world.
--Judd
Iran is no more a threat to the world than the United States is. Hinting that Iran is a threat, is calling the proverbial kettle black.
How many countries have been invaded by the US marines in the last 25 years? How many "regime changes" has the US sponsored during the same period? How many dictatorial regimes, "freedom fighters" have been also propped up, financed, armed, and trained? How many has Iran?
To top that list, who is engaging in "prisoner rendering", openly advocating "pre-emptive strikes", calling the UN "irrelevant", and the Geneva Convention "quaint"?
The US is -by far- a greater threat to world's peace and stability than Iran is. Unless you, like the neo-cons, think Iran is a "destabilizing factor in the region" simply because they won't bend to Washington's wishes.
"A threat to the region" is a neo-con expression meaning "they won't play ball and turn their natural resources over to us".
January 13th, 2006 at 4:22 pmFuuny, no one has given any evidence that Iran is ruled by a peaceful government.
Comment by Steed Lankershim
Screed,
I don't recall using the adjective "peaceful" in referring to Iran...
My point was that Iran's government was simply acting in the same manner (actually with more restraint) that the U.S. would were our bordering neighbors under attack and occupation by a threatening foreign power...
Do your inbred parents FEED you hypocrisy daily as children, or is it another recessive gene?
January 13th, 2006 at 4:31 pmIf Iran's a threat, so is North Korea and you don't hear alot about N. Korea from Bush. Why? Because it's not geograpically position, in the area Bush Co wants to put permanent US interests in. Bush has cried 'wolf', way too many times already. People aren't believing him anymore. He sounds like a broken record, and I, for one, would like to see him shut up!
January 13th, 2006 at 4:39 pmAny troll joining up? I don't know where you think these troops are coming from. Too bad we spent all these lives, time and money on someone who WASN'T EVEN A THREAT. Iran has us just where they want us - busy.
Irony is an evil bitch.
January 13th, 2006 at 4:47 pmThis attack on Iran will not be about nuclear weapons. That might be what the White House wants you to think but it is very far from the truth. The Bush/ Cheney cabal has had Iran in its sights for a long time now.
If it is not nukes, then what is the reason? The main reason is Iran wants to set up an energy exchange that will not use the U.S. dollar as the trading currency. They want to use the Euro. Iraq was the same thing. When the new "puppet" government came to power, their first order of business was to switch oil sales back to the U.S. dollar. Saddam was selling their oil in exchange for Euros.
Check out the article link here...
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_allen_l__060104_iran_is_cheney_s_nex.htm
After reading this article, think whether or not the nukes are the real reason for going into Iran.
AL
January 13th, 2006 at 4:49 pmhttp://reactmagazine.blogspot.com
How many Euros can we get for Bush? Chaney? Rumsfeld? Let's put them up for the highest bidder!
January 13th, 2006 at 5:02 pm"I wonder if he’s still convinced. Because his robots have sure provided plenty of evidence they’re not. Bwhahahahahaha! Steed Lankershim "
Guess which country encouraged the invasion? The US. Guess which country supplied arms to Iraq, including unconventional weapons? The US.
Any nation poses a potential threat to their neighbors, including the US which even has official plans for how the US should invade Canada and Mexico if we chose to, the reality is that Iran has not invaded a single neighbor, whereas Iraq under the US stewardship invaded Iran.
Iran is run by theocrats, and they most certainly do pose a regional concern, but so does Israel which has invaded virtually every neighbor they touch in the last 40 years, including the occupation of lebanon and all of the former palestinian territories in direct conflict with UN Resolutions that forbid this.
One can always find reasons to justify a war, even if it means fabricating evidence as Bush did for invading Iraq. The hard part is to find reasons for peace beyond selfish economic interests and to make the peace happen. That's what takes courage, and that's where republicans are always cowards. Republicans always cut and run from peace and responsibility in producing peace. They prefer the cowards methods of unnecessary conflict.
January 13th, 2006 at 5:08 pm#84
It's truly amazing how you bastardize information to fit your world view.
January 13th, 2006 at 5:24 pmI have yet to find a right winger who would take up this notion, they prefer war. But if it were guaranteed that terorrism would end by spending $50 - $100 billion around the world in hot spots on schools, education, building middle class infrastructure, hospitals etc... would you do it. None would want to because that money would have to come from somewhere and it's not the US job to cure the worlds ills, yet they are more than happy to spend $300 billion to $2 trillion killing people as if that money does not have to come from somewhere. Why is this so?
January 13th, 2006 at 5:26 pmRightPunch
January 13th, 2006 at 5:27 pmWell said. Israel has alot to gain, with the United States providing a foothold in the Middle East. I trust Israel and it's motives, about as much as I trust Bush.
Peace is the hard part. It's too easy to go to war. But this administration believes peace is weak and only war makes you strong.
#84 don't forget that the US was hedging their bets and supplying Iran too.
January 13th, 2006 at 5:31 pmHairy Thrust doth protest too much that he is not anti-semitic. Give it up hirsute one- you don't like Jews too much.
January 13th, 2006 at 5:41 pm"It’s truly amazing how you bastardize information to fit your world view. Michael"
This from the guy who tells people who disagree with him, that they 'obviously hate america', and 'should leave'. Our values represent the values of the founding fathers. It doesn't matter if we were 5% of the population, we are still the rightful heirs of the american legacy. It is you who clearly hate america, so much so that you would turn us into Iran in order to fight 'commies' and 'godless people', just like the Iranian religious leaders.
I just printed the facts, but those facts show Conservatives in the negative light that truly represent your values. Thomas Jefferson had people like you in mind when he wrote this great quote.
January 13th, 2006 at 5:58 pm
"Hairy Thrust doth protest too much that he is not anti-semitic. Give it up hirsute one- you don’t like Jews too much. antidhimmi"
Republicans rant on about secular Jews, and Arabs (also semitic) all the time. Shouldn't you be directing your rants to them, since they're clearly more anti-semitic than anyone?
After all, why would anyone want to put Israel at risk the way conservatives have, unless they want the rapture to come, and israel to be destroyed - just like in the fairy tale christian bible.
January 13th, 2006 at 6:00 pm"As for bullying tactics from the left, I have yet to meet a progressive bully."
I take it, then, that you have never met Teddy "Owl Club" Kennedy, or "Credit Check" Chuck Schumer. These guys took one paragraph from a lone article in CAP's "Prospect" magazine [Joke's On You Dept.: it turned out to be a satire piece, not a serious article], and tried to ascribe it to Judge Alito, even though he had never even read it, has never said anything remotely resembling that paragraph, and was never even active in CAP.
The most telling moment in the Alito hearings was this: when a panel of federal judges showed up, en masse, to endorse Alito's nomination, most Democrat senators showed their respect for those eminent jurists by absenting themselves from the hearing room.
PS: As between Teddy Kennedy and Sam Alito, guess which one accepted over $7.5 million in special interest money between 2001 and 2006. You guessed it: it was the blowhard senior senator from Massachusetts! See for yourself at http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5389686 [H/T: The Economist]. Anyone for an 18-hour grilling of Teddy Kennedy over his ethics history?
BTW, Mary Jo Kopechne was unavailable for comment.
January 13th, 2006 at 6:09 pmWe have just been pigeonholed. Sharon is out of commission and Iran has a chance to seize. Now, if Osama and his new team (every one of you trolls knows that he is still operating and with much more gusto now that we aren't following him any longer) can somehow, just somehow, get to Musharaf, we are screwed. We are on the brink of something we had no business in, nay starting.
January 13th, 2006 at 6:20 pmHey BSR. I see you, as usual, strayed from the topic which gives me a chance to ask you a question.
Dont you think it odd that they checked the four boxes of records on CAP and found no mention whatsoever of Alito? Now let me tell you the boxes contained membership lists also, but none showed Alito.
So, he lied when he filled out the employment application in 1985, did he not?
Now, what occured here was that the pukes got the leader of CAP to go in a couple of days before the hearings started and the washed the box of records. Dont believe it? Check the sign in sheets at the Library of Congress for the past few weeks.
January 13th, 2006 at 6:27 pm#30: [Yawn] Let me take on your fever swamp myths one by one:
1. President Bush has done more in response to the terrorist attacks of 9/11 than all of his predecessors combined, from Carter to Clinton. That's what the Left is so upset about - the terrorists declared war on us and President Bush has responded accordingly.
2. Osama did get away, thanks to the Taliban and their allies among the Pakistan/Afghanistan border tribes. But we are still pursuing him in one of the most impenetrable regions in the world. And he's been underground for a very long time. He may even be dead. He sure hasn't been able to mount an another attack on American soil. In any event, President Bush has done a whole lot more than just fire a couple missiles at an aspirin factory.
3. The President didn't lie. As numerous investigations have shown, he told us the facts, based on our best intelligence at the time.
4. Another myth. State, local and FEMA officials responded ineptly and too slowly, during Katrina. In the wake of their failure, the President has supported more hurricane relief for Katrina than for any other hurricane in recent memory.
5. Crimes? Presidents of both parties have used their inherent Article II powers to use warrantless searches and surveillance in the interest of national security and defense. That's not a crime, it's just what a president is supposed to do.
6. This one makes me LOL - no, make that ROFLMAO. President Bush has unprecedented support from the troops, precisely because they know he will stay the course and see the mission through to its end.
This is way too easy. Don't waste my time if you can't do better than this.
January 13th, 2006 at 6:38 pmRight Punch points to the Republicans as anti-semites. Perhaps they were also in Durban at the UN sponsored conference on Human Rights with peace-loving NGOs when they slammed Jews and Israel as the oppressors. Maybe those same Republicans also sponsor groups like counterpunch, a decidedly left wing anti Israel site. Perhaps they also attended the Moveon and Answer rallies which prominently displayed anti Israel posters and invited numerous Anti-Israel speakers to harangue the audience. Gee I guess I missed those Republicans. Me- I'm a life-long Democrat who finds he has no home any more. I guess I'm just a paleoliberal lost on the range.
January 13th, 2006 at 6:50 pm#90
George Washington had people like you in mind when he wrote this...
The Hand of providence has been so conspicuous in all this, that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more than wicked, that has not gratitude enough to acknowledge his obligations.
and this...
You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention.
January 13th, 2006 at 6:52 pm#84
Guess which country encouraged the invasion? The US. Guess which country supplied arms to Iraq, including unconventional weapons? The US.
Why did you leave out Germany, Britain, France, Russia, China, Austria, Argentina, Italy, Japan, Niger (What?!!! Niger?!!!), Portugal, Saudia Arabia, Egypt, Brazil, Spain and others. But the largest provider was Germany. Why don't you be honest here. Oh, we know. You're an anti-american propagandist. George Soros would love you.
January 13th, 2006 at 7:01 pm#96: Bush probably had a hand in 9/11 and he did lie. That's all he has done since he stole the election. If we don't get diebold out of the picture there will be more Repug wins. Besides, Gore is the REAL president. Bush didn't do shit for New Orleans except for "Heck of a good job, Brownie". Bush should be impeached, just like Nixon. Stay the course? What course? The same one that has killed 2200 Americans and countless Iraqs?
January 13th, 2006 at 7:01 pmAlso #90,
I don't tell people who disagree with me that they hate America. I was addressing one person--big papa--who never says anything positive about our country, and I never told him to leave. That's your bastardized interpretation of what I wrote. As for your values representing those of our founding fathers--you've got to be kidding. Do you have to work at turning reality on its head, or does it come naturally?
January 13th, 2006 at 7:05 pmRightPunch,
You sure do make an awful lot of assumptions which undermine your credibility. You also paint with a very broad brush. I'm neither partisan nor Republican. I'm Independant and conservative. I'm not the one who's lost either--it is you. You and most of the lefties on this site are hopelessly lost in your hatred for the Bush administration, but cheer up--I hear he's not running in '08.
January 13th, 2006 at 7:21 pm#106
Who are you talking to?
January 13th, 2006 at 7:25 pmI never said I was a lifelong Democrat--you have me confused with someone else.
#92: Blue State Red
"I take it, then, that you have never met Teddy “Owl Club†Kennedy, or “Credit Check†Chuck Schumer. "
No, I never have. However, I don't consider anyone in the Wahington power structure, including most democrats, as progressives. The Democratic party is controlled by centrists trying to copy Republican tactics to regain power.
"The most telling moment in the Alito hearings was this: when a panel of federal judges showed up, en masse, to endorse Alito’s nomination, most Democrat senators showed their respect for those eminent jurists by absenting themselves from the hearing room."
I looked at 4 news sites trying to find evidence of this. So far no luck. I found a reference to an "unusual appearance," of" seven current and former colleagues of Alito's from the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals" http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5151787
" PS: As between Teddy Kennedy and Sam Alito, guess which one accepted over $7.5 million in special interest money between 2001 and 2006. You guessed it: it was the blowhard senior senator from Massachusetts! See for yourself at http://www.economist.com/ world/ na/ displaystory.cfm?story_id=5389686 [H/T: The Economist]. Anyone for an 18-hour grilling of Teddy Kennedy over his ethics history?
BTW, Mary Jo Kopechne was unavailable for comment. "
Every senator in DC accepts special interest money. None of them should. The reason money scandals are so prominent right now is because the stench surounding the republican party finally grew so strong that people had to notice. And Alito is a republican appointee, the party that was built on special interest money, very dirty special interest money at that.
January 13th, 2006 at 7:45 pm"I looked at 4 news sites trying to find evidence of this. So far no luck."
You clearly have spent to much time under the influence of the networks, CNN and the New York Times. Try taping the hearing highlights on C-SPAN this weekend, and you will see that those federal judges, including many liberals, put on an impressive body of testimony in Alito's favor. You also will see a whole bunch of liberals who have clerked for Alito provide personal endorsements of his nomination. The opposition to Alito really is marginal at best.
January 13th, 2006 at 8:36 pm"Hey BSR. I see you, as usual, strayed from the topic . . ."
Not a difficult task when Judd leads with his chin like he did on this thread.
January 13th, 2006 at 8:39 pm"Dont you think it odd that they checked the four boxes of records on CAP and found no mention whatsoever of Alito? Now let me tell you the boxes contained membership lists also, but none showed Alito.
So, he lied when he filled out the employment application in 1985, did he not?"
I don't think it odd, and I don't think he lied. Not unless you want to characterize every mistake of memory as a lie. I have misremembered my own past, but I've never tried to lie about it. I'll the same is true for you, too.
What I do think is odd is the way Teddy Kennedy drove himself right off a cliff in these hearings. I suspect that some liberal staffer or liberal interest group was feeding him the "Prospect" article as serious, instead of the attempt at satire it apparently was. I also suspect that out of desperation he gambled that (a) Alito's name would turn up in those boxes, or (b) he could stall the hearings based on a delay in gaining access to the boxes (why else would he fail to discuss the matter personally with Specter for 3 weeks?).
As it turned out, Specter called Teddy's bluff and got immediate access to the documents, which turned out to contain no references to Alito or any other damaging information (such as, for example, a blood oath to keep women, gays and minorities out of Princeton). Plus, I'm sure ol' Teddy never thought someone would so easily dig up his continuing membership in the men-only "Owl Club" for the last 40 years or so. Looks like the only bigot at those hearings was none other than Teddy Kennedy himself!
For hubris, stupidity and hypocrisy above and beyond the call of duty (and for his past difficulties behind the wheel), I hereby award Teddy Kennedy my "Thelma & Louise" award. Bon voyage, Teddy!
PS: Mary Jo is still unavailable for comment.
January 13th, 2006 at 8:56 pmI used to visit this site occasionally to see what the left has to say about current issues. I came here with an open mind, thinking that someone might say something thought provoking, but no. There’s nothing compelling here, and no persuasive argumentation—EVER. It’s always the same old crap—absolute hatred for George Bush, anti war, anti Republican, anti Christian, anti conservative, venomous spewing of hatred towards those who have a different opinion than your own, name calling, gross misrepresentations and delusional self appreciation for being SO much smarter than those on the right. You guys are creative though, I’ll give you that. It is quite dizzying to see how you gather bits and pieces of obscure information, news snippet’s, and history, then paste them together into some bizarre collage—all the while thinking about how intellectual you are, and how stupid the right is. I’ve given up thinking that I might learn something from you guys—I come here now out of sheer morbid curiosity. Sometimes I even feel compelled to comment, but I know better than to try to address the real issues with most of you here. I’ve seen how you twist the truth and the facts into something unrecognizable. I found it to be a lot more fun to poke at your elitist arrogant attitudes once I discovered that you guys don’t have ANY answers—just blustering objections to whatever is happening in the world.
January 13th, 2006 at 9:03 pm"P.S.: Michael Douglass was unavailable for comment on the tactics of the republicans driving american policies"
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but aping someone else's joke always fails. Especially when your grammar and punctuation are worse than a second grader's. Thanks for the compliment, though.
PS: If you're so much smarter than Michael, or me, how come you can't write or think of your own jokes?
PS: Ted Kennedy was available for comment, but we didn't ask for one we knew he would keep repeating the same tired accusations, fed to him by someone else, "again, again, and again."
January 13th, 2006 at 9:25 pmHow elitist of you to think you know what I really mean to say. First of all I told you I was independent, but you insist on calling me a Republican. Secondly, you cannot accept that I came here with an open mind--instead you have to accuse me of already having my mind made up. Believe it or not, I honestly came here to see and consider the other side of the issues--but you know better don't you. That's a typical liberal attitude--we know you better than you know yourself. Thirdly, I never claimed to have any answers, but that didn't stop you from leaping to that conclusion. My blustering objection comment was to point out the lefts constant objections while never offering a better solution. Finally you don't even know what my world looks like because I've never revealed it to you,but somehow you are able to know that it is upsidedown--truly incredible! Thanks for proving my point about elitism and arrogance.
January 13th, 2006 at 9:25 pm#115, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
January 13th, 2006 at 9:43 pm"#115, don’t let the door hit you on the way out."
Nice. Real nice. The fever swampers here are just like their senatorial character assassinators: mean, nasty and shameless.
January 13th, 2006 at 9:49 pm[...] Iraq is going so well, let’s go to war with Iran! [...]
January 13th, 2006 at 9:56 pm"We are no Iran, but we have increasingly similar characteristics that make most rational people concerned."
America is the most religiously diverse nation on earth. When you attack America, and Ameicans of faith, you just help to put more distance between the Left and the avaerage voter.
Advantage: Republicans. Keep up the good work.
January 13th, 2006 at 10:24 pmIt's getting really tiresome that the same trolls come here every day, derail discussion threads with irrelevant comments and turn any meaningful discussion into an ideological pissing contest.
What is also tiresome is that people who at times can carry on decent discussions get drawn into these pissing contests and end up making fools of themselves. Trolls, please, unless you have something on-topic to say go be superior somewhere else. Progs, don’t feed the trolls, because you’re only making them fat and stupid. Get over yourselves, people. Let’s get back on topic.
That said, it’s pretty damn obvious that our foreign policy under the Bush administration has been incredibly clumsy, short-sighted and ignorant in dealing with Iraq. One can understand the anxiety and lack of faith that a number of posters express in the ability of the Bush administration to handle any developing situation with Iran. Iran going nuclear will require a multilateral solution, not a unilateral solution.
While it would be foolish foreign policy to take any military option off the table, it would be equally foolish to undercut Russia and China (as well as the rest of the international community) in the handling of this situation. The Iraq debacle has undercut our credibility in most areas of foreign policy. We are being isolated by the other members of the international community. I truly hope the Bush administration takes a more nuanced and thoughtful approach this time around, or the United States is going to be in serious trouble.
January 13th, 2006 at 11:49 pmIran is certainly more harsh in their moral dictation, but just talk to a rightwing religious person about marriage, gay people or even people of another faith (like islam) and see how far out they are. They don’t look any different to me, other than maybe the clothing. Comment by RightPunch
Like this?
"Nazanin was assaulted by three Islamist men in the West of Tehran while strolling with her niece in a park last March (2005). To defend herself she pulled out a knife and stabbed one of her assailants. The knife penetrated the ribs of her attacker who later died in the hospital. The attacks on women in Iran is so frequent that many are forced to carry a concealed weapon for self defense. Unfortunately the Islamic law does not even allow women the right to self defense.
Despite the fact that she had been acting in self defense, as shown by the evidences presented and the testimony of eyewitnesses, Nazanin was sentenced to death by hanging. "
January 13th, 2006 at 11:57 pmDec 2005
UN censures Iran's human rights violations.
The draft resolution on human rights in Iran (document A/60/509/Add.3-II) was adopted by a recorded vote of 75 in favor to 50 against, with 43 abstentions, as follows:
In favor: Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Belize, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Federated States of Micronesia, Fiji, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Mexico, Monaco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Palau, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Moldova, Romania, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, San Marino, Serbia and Montenegro, Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Timor-Leste, Tonga, Tuvalu, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, Vanuatu.
January 14th, 2006 at 12:03 amFor anyone who wants to learn about the Iranian theocratic revolution or how women are treated in such a theocratic state should read Marjane Satrapi's Persepolis and Persepolis II books.
January 14th, 2006 at 12:05 amYes RightPunch, sounds a lot like America.
Draft resolution II on the situation of human rights in Iran would have the
Assembly express its serious concern over the continuing harassment,
intimidation and persecution of human rights defenders, non-governmental
organizations, political opponents, religious dissenters, journalists, and
students through undue restrictions on freedoms of assembly, press and
expression, arbitrary arrests, as well as the disqualification of large
numbers of prospective candidates during the June 2005 presidential elections.
Additionally, it would call on the Iranian Government to ensure full respect
January 14th, 2006 at 12:09 amfor the rights to freedom of assembly, opinion and expression, and end the
persecution of political opponents and human rights defenders. It would also
call on it to ensure full respect for the right to due process, as well as
equality before the law, and to eliminate the use of torture and other cruel,
inhuman punishments, end impunity for violations of human rights, abolish
public executions, particularly those who were under the age of 18 at the time
of their offence, and eliminate all forms of discrimination and violence
against women and minorities.
I ran across this very relevant and interesting linked off of Juan Cole's blog:
Iran and Israel will be kings of the Middle East jungle.
January 14th, 2006 at 12:16 am"The US occupation of Iraq has turned its neighbour into a new regional power. But the contagion is likely to spread far wider..."
More David Hirst from Nov 1999.
http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/1999/11/991117-in.htm
The State Dept, in an Oct 14 letter to Sen. Jesse Helms, Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee said that it would begin the "drawdown of up to $5 million of defense articles." (see "Iraq News,
Oct 18). But it has yet to happen.
Also as Hirst concluded,
"Saddam's fall is guaranteed to happen sooner or later," said Pickering. Perhaps. But at the same time, however, the longer he hangs on the more likely it is that one of two things will happen. Either he will be internationally rehabilitated, because the US and Britain will be unable to resist the growing pressures, moral, political and commercial, for ending sanctions that are devastating the Iraqi people but doing nothing to remove or reform the regime. Or -- as Ragheda Dergham of the pan-Arab newspaper Al-Hayat said last week -- "the persistence of the status quo will turn Iraq into a time-bomb that will explode without notice or forewarning."
"On the face of it, the US responded with a clearer commitment to the opposition cause than it ever has before. Under-Secretary of State Thomas Pickering told the 300 delegates that the US stood four-square behind "a multi-dimensional strategy" to support "free" Iraqis not only "in the removal of the tyrant" but in "building a new, democratic Iraq". In line with the Iraq Liberation Act which President Clinton signed a year ago, the US released an initial $5 million of a promised $97 million for equipment and training. Besides such items as faxes, filing cabinets and computers, four rebel leaders, including two former army officers, are now attending a 10-day course on such things as "political opposition skills".
January 14th, 2006 at 1:53 am#134
It appears that we've traded one "inept" US policy for another, to draw comparisons between the two Hirst articles. There is one particular paragraph in that 1999 article which pretty much predicted our current predicament:
January 14th, 2006 at 2:10 am
Then there's this pathetic obituary for Sheikh Ahmad Yassin where Hirst compares him to Nelson Mendela. Scum.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,3604,1175833,00.html
Hamas — with Yassin at its head — was responsible for the deaths of 377 Israelis in at least 425 terrorist attacks over the past three-and-a-half years of the Palestinian Authority's war against Israel. Among the most devastating attacks Hamas has claimed responsibility for were the Park Hotel Passover Massacre in Netanya (March 27, 2002; 29 killed, including six married couples); a suicide bombing of the no. 2 bus coming from the Western Wall (Aug. 19, 2003; 23 killed, including three children and two babies); a suicide bombing at the Dolphinarium discotheque in Tel Aviv (June 1, 2001; 22 killed, mostly teens); a suicide bombing of Sbarro's in Jerusalem (Aug. 9, 2001; 15 killed, including five members of the same family — three children and their parents); a suicide bombing of the Matza restaurant in Haifa (March 31, 2002; 15 killed, including two fathers each with his two children); and the list goes on.
January 14th, 2006 at 2:25 amHow bout that. Hirst conveniently omits the part about killing innocent children. Scumbag.
January 14th, 2006 at 2:31 amInstead he writes this.
"In truth, neither Arafat nor Yassin had Mandela's special greatness. But of the two, it was Yassin, the founder-leader of the militant Islamist organisation Hamas, who came closer."
"It was an extremist splinter group of the Muslim Brotherhood, Islamic Jihad, which, in the early 1980s, first embarked on armed struggle (terrorism is just a little too strong of a word for Hirst) in the name of Islam - and achieved instant popularity among the Palestinians for doing so."
January 14th, 2006 at 2:38 am#136
Hirst didn't really compare Yassin's morality with that of Mandela. The Hirst article you linked to only made a broad comparision in which he stated that Yassin became a Mandela-like figure to the Palestinians, not that he was like Mandela in practice or idealogy. From the article you linked:
Hirst actually concludes the article with the following paragraph, which tempers the Mandela comparison:
January 14th, 2006 at 2:53 am
It appears that we are diverging from the topic of this post once again-- which is neither a discussion of Hammas or the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, or even the unquestionable credibility of David Hirst's writings in relation to the Middle East. The first Hirst article I linked to, and actually, the follow-up article jay's mom linked to (while 7 years old, does add some historic perspective), bear some relevance to this thread's discussion.
January 14th, 2006 at 3:13 amThings are more like they are now then they‘ve ever been.
January 14th, 2006 at 5:32 am- Dwight D. Eisenhower
#123
You want to get ‘rich'.
WRONG
You fear that your money is going to undeserving people who are trying to cheat you’.
WRONG
You fear that your money and property isn’t going to be protected.
WRONG
You fear because you’re unsure of your place in the world and want a better structure to tell you what that should be.
WRONG
There’s only a handful of real reasons that people are conservative, and an honest self reflective man would know that.
TRUE--but the same can be said about liberalism.
And you’ve already said a lot about you being an independent conservative. That usually means a libertarian, which is someone that doesn’t believe in rules or taxes, and is often but not necessarily very religious.
WRONG AGAIN
How am I doing so far?
I'm sure you will look at all of these wrong answers and still believe that you're right. You'll either accuse me of being untruthful or of being too stupid to actually know that you're right. I can only shake my head at your self-righteous arrogance. I sincerely hope that you don't have to rely on your instincts or your insight to make a living—you’re not very good at it.
January 14th, 2006 at 11:01 amI don’t tell people who disagree with me that they hate America. I was addressing one person–big papa–who never says anything positive about our country, and I never told him to leave.
Comment by Michael #103
Miscreant,
Pray tell, what should I have "positive" to say about this country that has exported terrorism to a country that never harmed us (and spends hundreds of billions of my Social security retirement dollars, emergency disaster funds, and badly needed education, infrastructure, and border security funds to do so)?
Why should I praise this government under your gods Bushiva and L'il Dick who've basically told us as citizens that they "rule" this country and there is no longer a system of checks and balances, nor constitutional authority that harnesses the power of the executive branch?
I choose NOT to prostrate myself before your false gods Miscreant, and I choose to despise weak minded, inbreds like yourself...
Now, change my mind with some substantive, "positive" facts about Bushiva and company...
January 14th, 2006 at 11:17 am#126
“Can vegetation be reasoned with?
You've completely missed the point. Those were "big papa's" words in #26. It is absolutely bewildering to see you ignore his scathing comments, his intolerant name-calling and his blatant hatred--then lecture me for quoting him. WHAT GALL! You accuse me of being closed minded, a hypocrit and irresponsible, yet you can't even handle information accurately. You have proven over and over again that you simply cannot interpret even a conversation with any degree of accuracy! Why would anyone listen to your political views? If you can't get it right on a small scale--how can you even remotely believe that you have it right on a larger scale? This is typical of the intellectual dishonesty that runs rampant on this site. It's too bad though--most of you seem very bright--if you can find a way to get over yourselves, maybe others would listen to what you have to say.
January 14th, 2006 at 11:30 am#144
I really don't believe that any amount of information will change your mind--attempting to engage you on the issues would only be a lesson in futility for both of us. I would like to suggest that you need not be so extreme. It is your right to disagree with this administration, but you can still believe in our country. America still does a lot of great things. Bush will be gone in two years--you should have hope for a better America then. You should at least be grateful that Bush has appointed federal judges who believe in co-equal branches of the government--and who will uphold the constitution. America will benefit from that for many years, no matter who is President.
January 14th, 2006 at 11:42 amI hear your pain Michael, many here do I’m sure. We’re all in pain, especially big pop. Help us, go ask your President to stop bombing civilians. It will be a start. Then we will go from there.
January 14th, 2006 at 3:09 pm"I really don’t believe that any amount of information will change your mind–attempting to engage you on the issues would only be a lesson in futility for both of us. Michael"
When you supply information, and stop ignoring what's supplied to you, you'll increase your credibility with me. Until then, you're just another conservative who rants with closed minds and closed ears about how no one will listen to you.
"It is your right to disagree with this administration, but you can still believe in our country. America still does a lot of great things. Bush will be gone in two years–you should have hope for a better America then. Michael"
You're the one who came here all filled with hate, sorry you carry no water. I don't hate this country, but clearly republicans do, considering how much effort they put into trying to destroy it.
"You should at least be grateful that Bush has appointed federal judges who believe in co-equal branches of the government–and who will uphold the constitution. America will benefit from that for many years, no matter who is President. Michael "
Alito's and Robert's records show something entirely different than your claims. I hope you're right, but frankly republican politicians and judges make lots of promises and claims they never keep. When you become an adult, you'll nearn to be a sceptic, and it doesn't make you an american - but it will make you an adult. I wish you luck in your puberty.
January 15th, 2006 at 3:29 am#148
Once again you think everything is about you, as you keep referencing my claims to big papa and apply them to yourself. You can't even comprehend what you read! AND your childish retorts are the equivalant of saying, " I know you are, but what am I."
January 15th, 2006 at 11:51 amI really don’t believe that any amount of information will change your mind–attempting to engage you on the issues would only be a lesson in futility for both of us. I would like to suggest that you need not be so extreme. It is your right to disagree with this administration, but you can still believe in our country. America still does a lot of great things. Bush will be gone in two years
Comment by Michael #146
You'd be right, you can't change my mind...
...and regardless of Bushiva's departure from the presidency today, tomorrow or twenty years from now I want some JUSTICE and ACCOUNTABILITY for the mass murder, profiteering, corruption, neglect, abandonment of the poor/middle working class masses, purge of unions, transfer of wealth, incompetence, malfeasance, violations of civil, constitutional and human rights perpetrated by Bushiva, L'il Dick, Rumsfeld, Cundti, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Ken Adelman, and their media thugs and supporters LIKE YOU!
You all need to be brought to justice...
There are curses upon your houses and families...
Your karma is rotten...
January 15th, 2006 at 1:29 pmYou should at least be grateful that Bush has appointed federal judges who believe in co-equal branches of the government–and who will uphold the constitution. America will benefit from that for many years, no matter who is President.
Comment by Michael#146
Miscreant,
You really ARE ill...
I hope you or someone you love dearly is killed or horribly injured due to corporate or governmental negligence and you need to sue...
Your case gets all the way to the SC and Alito's is the deciding vote...
You moron...
January 15th, 2006 at 1:33 pmFirst of all I told you I was independent, but you insist on calling me a Republican.
Comment by Michael #120
Miscreant,
There are no "independents", either you support evil (Bushiva) or you despise it...
Your tone is clear, you're on the evil team...
...along with your inbred cousins Fool State Red, antipdiddity, Screed lame-o-sh*thead, and jay's scumbaglady mom
January 15th, 2006 at 1:48 pmOh you're in trouble now bigpapa!
At any moment RightPunch is going to give you a lecture about dehumanizing someone and being judgemental. Oh wait--you guys are on the same side! I'm sure a virtual high five is in order for your eloquent insults then. bigpapa you have a festering poisoned mind, and you have the gall to call me evil. After reading your comments on this site for the last couple of months, anyone can see that you are a bitter, hateful, vulgar man. You are so twisted up inside with rage you can't even see that you are an ugly mental midget. You say things like--
I hope you or someone you love dearly is killed or horribly injured due to corporate or governmental negligence and you need to sue…
AND you're given a free pass by all of your fellow liberal lefties. I guess in your case the enemy of their enemy is their friend. Politics aside, a person can't even reason with any of you liberals on even the most basic levels of decency and honesty--especially you. I don't think there are enough anti-depressants and counceling techniques in the world to help you bigpapa, you sure are one incurably ulgly and repulsive person. Do the world a favor and seek assisted suicide--I'm not sure your prescence is wanted even among this left wing loser support group.
January 15th, 2006 at 4:00 pmI see you you clearly Michael, you're a scrawny little man man holding hands in church basement.
January 15th, 2006 at 7:08 pmat 9:30 pm on a friday
January 15th, 2006 at 7:12 pmMichael condeming a person for doing the exact same thing you are obviously doing is called hypocracy.. sorta like Jim Baker getting caught stealing ... Jimmy Swagart caught with a prostitute... Bob livingstone caught cheating on his wife...Bob Ney caught taking a bribe... Duke cunningham Caught taking a bribe...Jack Abramoff caught defrauding, giving bribes .....Tom delay just plain caught....Pat Roberson on turning the other cheek to Ariel Sharon and,...
January 15th, 2006 at 8:12 pmMost fo all Dennis Haskert, Tom Delay, Roy Blunt, Bill Frist, Mitch McConnel, Rich Santaurm, Trent Lott, Jeb Bush, Karl Rove, Saxby Chambliss, Paul Wolfowitz, Vin Webber Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Eliot Abrams, Richard Shelby, Jon Kyl, Tim Hutchison, Chistopher Cox, Newt Gingrich, Phil Gram Dana Rohrabacher, John McHugh, J C Watts, Jack Kemp, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Georgo Will, Paul Gigot, Pat Buchanan, Bill Kristol, Ralph Reed, Rush Limbaugh, Micheal Savage, Bill Bennet, Ken Starr, Clarance Thomas Jean Schmitt John Engler Spencer Abraham Georga Pataki, John Ashcroft Ann Coulter Laura Ingram and Dick Cheny who are soooo worried about the security of the US they never tried to wear a uniform and volunteer to go in harms way the way thet now call for others to do.
However Jack Murtha Marine Vietnam, David Bonier SSG Air Force, Tom Dachle ILt Air Forca SAC pilot, Al Gore Army Vietnam, Bob Kerry Navy Vietnam (Medal or Honor), Daniel Inoyae Army WW2, John Kerry Navyt Vietnam, Charles Rangle, Army Korean War, Max Cleland Army Vietnam (triple amputee), Ted Kennedy Army, Tom Harkin Navy, Jack Reed Army Fritz Hollings Army WW2, Leonard Bosswell Army Vietnam, Pete Peterson Air Force Vietnam (POW), Mike Thompson Army Vietnam, Bill McBride Marine Vietnam, Gray Davis Army Vietnam, Pete Stark Air Force, Jimmy Carter Navy , Tom Lantos Served in the Hungarian underground fighting Nazi occupation, The list of did not serve are all republicans or their mouthpieces the list of those who served are all democrats.
To be absolutly fair John McCain Navy Vietnam (POW), Colon Powell Army Vietnam and Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff, Donald Rumsfeld Navy, George Bush senior Navy WW2, GW Bush Texas National guard, Dan Quayle Indiana National guard Lindsey Graham National Guard Lawyer,.....
Bill Clinton did not serve, Nancy Pelosi did not serve,
Oh and by the way FYI I served in the First Gulf War Army 100% combat Disabled
January 15th, 2006 at 8:22 pmOkay, here is a basic question for the Right Wingers, a question they should, if they were really Conservatives, should be asking themselves.
It is all very well saying that Iran is evil and should be overthrown, but can America afford to do it?
Because if America simply does not have the resources to handle the task without harming America's economy in the long term, the point should be moot.
January 16th, 2006 at 8:43 amOh, and Clif, while Clinton did not serve, he wasn't a hawk either. He avoided war during his reign much as he did in his youth, unlike Bush who avoided war in his youth, but is eager to engage in his reign.
January 16th, 2006 at 8:48 am#158
That's for congress to decide should we come to that. War as always should be a last resort.
January 16th, 2006 at 8:58 am#156
Nobody cares about your inane roll call. What is it with you guys anyway? You continually give the likes of big papa a free pass, then you're the first to cry hypocrit when someone gives it back to him. Sounds pretty hypocritical and self-serving to me, but then again I shouldn't expect too much from the intellectually dishonest.
January 16th, 2006 at 9:11 amMichael:
Ten reasons why we as Liberals are getting more combatitive and have decided to tell the right wing where they can shove their idealogy.
1st: Basically we have been fighting off lies, Ad Hominem attacks and death threats. All because we ask questions and don't just shut up when a fist gets shoved into our faces.
Needless to say, we all tried reason for about the whole of Bush's first term. It didn't work, all we got was called a bunch of pussies for it, so now we are just calling it like we see it. You will understand if the Liberal left (I wear the badge proudly) is pissed off right now with anyone spouting a rightwing viewpoint.
2nd: It has been my observation on this site, that most of the rightwingers cannot argue. Steed, is an exception because he does sometimes try to reason out his arguments, but for the most part we are dealing with people like I-Right-I.
3rd: Everyone on the left believes, actually believes in a better tomorrow. We don't like corruption in our government, we seriously despise people who go with the "But he did it first" defense, and we really actually believe that moral superiority should flow from morally superior behaviour. We may have given up on the reasoned argument, but we aren't pro torture or self righteous lying.
4rth: Afghanistan was fully justified, but we remember the mission there was to capture Osama. Osama hasn't been caught yet.
5th: Iraq was based on a lie, told while the war in Afghanistan wasn't going entirely to plan, which landed America in a meaningless war while the economy wasn't doing too well. In South Africa we referred to it as being fought over Weapons of Mass Distraction.
6th: Valerie Plame being outed by her own government, thereby ending her career while putting the lives of her, her contacts and her family at risk. Terrorist organisations don't play games with that sort of thing.
7th: Enron and other scandals where the Republican government though not investigated, was implicated in shady dealings.
8th: Clinton leaving America in the best economic condition it had ever been, and yet getting blamed for every bad thing that happened.
9th: The end of the UN being brought about by America refusing to listen when the UN said not to invade Iraq.
10th: Bush's photo-ops in New Orleans, his lack of concern, and the fact that the two presidents previous to him did more to help deal with the disaster then his appointed chief of FEMA Mike Brown. We also remember Mike Brown outright lying about why he failed so utterly to respond to the crisis.
The above ten reasons are also why we don't believe the Bush Administration when it says Iran is a clear and present danger. Bush is the boy who cried wolf, and sadly, he is stretching America's resources to the point where it can no longer reply to his calls to arms.
January 16th, 2006 at 9:23 amBruce Gorton Loser--
Your spin on reality is so typical of the views espoused on this site. No matter what happens in the news, I can predict with absolut certainty how the left will interpret it--and sure enough, I come here and see that I was right. I't always the same thing with you guys--you've all become indoctrinated by the Democratic party. You say all of the same things, you believe all of the same things, and you all persecute those who don't share your beliefs. You're just like a religious cult--except your god is your own inflated view of yourself. AND that's enough reason for me to tell you where to shove your ideology.
January 16th, 2006 at 11:20 am"Too often, the right is stuck in one gear in their approach to foreign policy: ultra-macho war mongering."
All to often the Filthy Left drapes itself in the robes and sandals of Gandhi who grandly counseled the Jews to go willingly to their doom to teach Hitler a moral lesson. They would like the USA to do the same. It's funny they never make that kind of suggestion to the head chopping "freedom fighters" who would like nothing more than to appease their demon god by dropping a nuke on NYC.
January 16th, 2006 at 12:25 pmDon't you know I-RIGHT-I?
The head chopping freedom fighters are that way because of Bush.
All too often the left is too preoccupied with the sound of their own voices, too enamored with their own intellect, and too arrogant to see the folly of their position. They put their collective heads in the sand and remain completely ignorant of the threat that is in the world today. Even if a nuke was dropped on NYC, they still wouldn't get it. Thank God not everyone has their head in the sand, and that there are people in this country like GWB who are willing to face reality, roll up their sleeves and do what must be done.
January 16th, 2006 at 1:25 pmFirst: I-Right-I
You still haven't answered me on naming one thing Bush has done to make America a better place. So far my AIDS denying president is still doing better then yours. Come I-Right-I say something, surely Bush's reign can't have been allll bad.
Second Michael:
"Name calling and hatred seem to be the only tools you’re able to weild as you desperately lash out at everyone. Have you ever tried to engage anyone in some meaingful conversation? Do you even know how to be civil to someone you disagree with? You’re so blinded by hatred that you can’t see anything clearly–you should seek help–seriously.
Comment by Michael — January 13, 2006 @ 1:44 pm"
"Bruce Gorton Loser–
Your spin on reality is so typical of the views espoused on this site. No matter what happens in the news, I can predict with absolut certainty how the left will interpret it–and sure enough, I come here and see that I was right. I’t always the same thing with you guys–you’ve all become indoctrinated by the Democratic party. You say all of the same things, you believe all of the same things, and you all persecute those who don’t share your beliefs. You’re just like a religious cult–except your god is your own inflated view of yourself. AND that’s enough reason for me to tell you where to shove your ideology.
Comment by Michael — January 16, 2006 @ 11:20 am"
And here I was trying to be civil. Thanks for proving my point about how rightwinger react to civil discourse though.
Also as a reply to the second quoted post, so are you saying that torturing people is not wrong? Or that maybe, government officials should be above the law? Or, that lies are an acceptable means of winning an argument? Gee, that explains a lot.
January 16th, 2006 at 4:24 pmTypo, should read rightwingers react.
January 16th, 2006 at 4:28 pm"Iran is run by theocrats, and they most certainly do pose a regional concern, but so does Israel which has invaded virtually every neighbor they touch in the last 40 years, including the occupation of lebanon and all of the former palestinian territories in direct conflict with UN Resolutions that forbid this."
Except in each case of Israel invading a neighbour, Israel was itself, attacked by those self same groups bent on its complete annihilation. The PLO has never once said Israel has the right to exist. The UN in it's various resolutions, well note that they also slammed Israel for rescuing hostages from Ida Amin. That is the UN's relationship with Israel in a nutshell.
January 16th, 2006 at 6:35 pmI got your civility right here you hack...
Ten reasons why we as Liberals are getting more combatitive and have decided to tell the right wing where they can shove their idealogy.
January 16th, 2006 at 6:50 pmThe UN in it’s various resolutions, well note that they also slammed Israel for rescuing hostages from Ida Amin. That is the UN’s relationship with Israel in a nutshell.
Comment by Bruce Gorton #168
Bruce,
How many UN resolutions has Israel ignored/violated?
Tell us about Sharon in Lebannon and the Palestinian refugee camps Sabra and Shatila...
What about Menachem Begin and the Urgun (sic) I believe it was, were they terrorists?
and finally, If the US and Europeans at Yalta- or wherever the hell they announced the establishment of Israel- felt so guilty about NOT having done anything to stop the holocaust (the U.S. actually turned away ships of Jewish refugees fleeing the carnage) then why in the hell didn't they Europeans and Americans set up Jewish settlements here in UT, ID, MT, CO or any number of under-inhabited states? Or why didn't the Europeans help absorb them throughout France,GB, and elsewhere, instead of these powers forcing the Palestinians to give up THEIR lands to accommodate the newly formed Jewish state?
January 16th, 2006 at 8:41 pmAll too often the left is too preoccupied with the sound of their own voices, too enamored with their own intellect, and too arrogant to see the folly of their position. They put their collective heads in the sand and remain completely ignorant of the threat that is in the world today.
Comment by Michael #165
No we don't Miscreant,
We realize full well that the greatest threat to our democracy is the corporate owned, megalomaniacal, incompetent, mendacious, dictatorial, corrupt, murderous, profiteering, racist, unAmerican, treasonous, Constitution-hating, ultra-right wing, facist George W. Bush regime and his subservient, prostrated, unintelligent, incurious, unquestioning, treasonous, selfish, greedy, racist, inbred, stepford cult worshippers...
You Miscreant (Michael) are the threat...
January 16th, 2006 at 8:51 pm169
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/begin.html
Basically I could equally ask you about George Washington and the revolutionaries. The parrellels are startling, including their treatment of the natives.
Further, if you were going to bring up something as a rebuttal you should have pointed to Der Yessin, when the Israelies wiped out a peaceful village in order to try and prevent the siege starving them out of the region.
Now I don't believe that Israelies are angels but I don't believe them to be devils either, which is how the popular media portrays them. Ignoring the fact that it has been in a state of perpetual war since 1948, and the fact that it wasn't the agressor in this war.
Further it conveniently forgets the Athletes at Munich. Even Hitler didn't kill Athletes at the Olympic games.
Further, as an interesting titbit, the original plan was to send the Jews off to Madagascar. Israel was what the Jews wanted. What they originally got was a third of a city and a very thin strip of land. They got attacked on the night the English left, and managed to take the rest of the city.
They then got attacked again, won in six days, took more land again, got attacked again, on Yom Kippur of all days, and took more land again. This wasn't a matter of terrorist attacks, this was ARMIES attacking Israel.
Now I don't call the PLO terrorists, they are revolutionaries, but I still side with Israel. For peace, the PLO has to give something up, and that is their wish to eliminate Israel as a independant country. Before any peace can be brokered, that concession has to be made.
January 17th, 2006 at 6:22 amOff topic perhaps, but why not. There never was an independant Arab state of Palestine. There is no such thing as a unique Palestinian language nor culture. More Jews were ethically cleansed from Arab states than ever fled from the Britsh mandate of Palestine in '48 or during '67. The Jews were made welcome in Israel, the Arabs are left to rot in refugee camps in Egypt and Syria by their Muslim brothers. Arab hatred of Jews predates the creation of the State of Israel. Mein Kampf and The protocols of the Elders of Zion are consistantly the biggest non-Arabic sellers throughout the Arab world. The Jews agreed to a shared state pre-'47 but the Arab world in general and Hitler's good friend and organiser of pogroms, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem did not.
For the record, I support Israel giving up the west bank regardless and in perpetuity, but "Palestinian" Terrorists and Arab leaders will always use concessions as a blank cheque to keep the murder going. Syria is the worst offender in this, including their invasion of and destruction of the democratic state of Lebanon. Incidentally, it is because of massacres carried out by by Syrian-backed Hezbollah against Christian Phalangist villages that led to the appalling mass murders at Sabra and Shatila. Israelis kicked out their government for not stopping the Phalangists by force. If positions had been reversed, Palestinians would be handing out sweets to children.
It will be a loooong time indeed before there is peace in the region, but we are witnessing the rebirth of an independant Lebanon once more and that gives me hope.
Lastly, I believe firmly that the current administration in the US is absolutely the most corrupt and morally bankrupt in last fifty years.
January 17th, 2006 at 9:11 amBig Papa - Personally I think all religion sucks the big one, but I can certainly understand the Jews wanting to return to their homeland after what, almost 2,000 years of being persecuted against? At least they have a better reason for being there than "manifest destiny". They have - what - 1% of the middle east and they can't even have that?
Bring the troops home - all of 'em
January 17th, 2006 at 9:25 amWho writes these articles? They're so unfair and unbalanced! Tisk tisk! Ultra-mocho war mongers? Oh, so its come to name calling? How about flower-power big government loving socialist hippies? If there was a lib in office, the money being spent in Iraq would be being handed out to welfare cases. Instead we made a nation free. Download "Our War". Its a response to the online download "His War" which shows a bunch of wounded American Soldiers and pissed off Iraqis. In "Our War", it shows that the pissed off Iraqis were the Saddam followers, and shows Iraqis cheering on American soldiers, praising them, high fiving them, ect. It really is eye opening to how unbalanced the left's media system has gotten. For shame.
Anywho, on Iran, its a 'scare'. This whole "Bush is ready to invade!" thing just really isn't true. The UN hasn't even been called upon to help yet, and we all know how much they'll help and all the time they'll waste. Those on the left will have plenty of time to prevent bombings or invasion by making wives (Judge Alito?) cry or funding Air America radio stations (conflict of interest?), no worries. Again, for shame. Its disgusting how disorganized and corrupt this party got led me to being a Republican rather than a Centrist.
January 26th, 2006 at 11:42 pmNo Nuclear amititions??
February 3rd, 2006 at 4:37 amThey are swimming in oil. What do the need nuclear power for?? Might as well build a nuclear plant at the bottom of Niagra falls
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Nokia 7270 ...100$
Nokia 7280 ....100$
Nokia 6670.... 100$
Nokia 6020 ...110$
Nokia 3220... 55$
Nokia 7610 ....110$
Nokia 9500 ....115$
Nokia 5140 ....65$
Nokia 6610i ....110$
Nokia 7200 ...115$
Nokia 6230 ....115$
Nokia 6820 ....100$
Nokia 7600 ...105$
Nokia 6600.... 105$
Nokia 6800.... 95$
Nokia 6220 ...95$
Nokia 6620 ...100$
Nokia 7250i ....45$
Nokia 8910i ...100$
Nokia 6100 ....85$
Nokia 6060 ....125$
Nokia 6111.... 135$
Nokia 6270 ....105$
Nokia 6270 ....105$
Nokia 6280 ...105$
Nokia N90 ...125$
Nokia N70 ....135$
Nokia Vertu ....195$
Nokia 5140i .....115$
Nokia 6230i ....125$
Nokia 8800 ...135$
Nokia 6021 ...125$
Nokia 6030 ....115$
Nokia 6680 ..125$
Nokia 6681 ...100$
Nokia 6101 ...100$
Nokia 6822 ...100$
Nokia 7710 ...100$
Nokia 6170 ...115$
Nokia 6260 ...125$
Nokia 3510i ...75$
Nokia 6630 ...100$
Nokia 9300 ....100$
Nokia 7260 ....100$
Nokia 7270 ....100$
Nokia 7280 ....100$
Nokia 6670 .....100$
Nokia 6020 .....110$
Nokia 3220..... 55$
Nokia 7610 .....10$
Nokia 9500 .....125$
Nokia 5140 .....75$
Nokia 6610i .....110$
Nokia 7200 ......115$
Nokia 6230 .....125$
Nokia 6820 .....110$
Nokia 7600 .....100$
Nokia 6600 .....110$
Nokia 6800 ....100$
Nokia 6220 ....110$
Nokia 6620 .....110$
Nokia 7250i ....55$
Nokia 8910i ....100$
Nokia 6100 .....85$
nokia 6630... $110
Motorola A388C......130 USD
Motorola A760.......210 USD
Motorola A768.......1850USD
Motorola A768i......185 USD
Motorola A780.......260 USD
Motorola C550.......70 USD
Motorola C650.......90 USD
Motorola E365.......90 USD
Motorola E398.......100 USD
Motorola E680.......210 USD
Motorola RAZR V3....230 USD
Motorola V220.......150 USD
Motorola V303.......90 USD
Motorola V400.......130 USD
Motorola V500.......130 USD
Motorola V501.......185 USD
Motorola V525.......130 USD
Motorola V600 OEM...160 USD
Motorola V690.....150 USD
Motorola V750.....160 USD
Motorola V80......180 USD
Motorola V80 with Bluetooth...230 USD
Motorola V872.....185 USD
Motorola V878....160 USD
Motorola V300....130 USD
Samsung D500...210 USD
Samsung E600...120 USD
Samsung E800...160 USD
Samsung P510...100 USD
Samsung SGH-D410 185 USD
Samsung SGH-D500..230 USD
Samsung SGH-E700..130 USD
Samsung SGH-E715..150 USD
Samsung SGH-P100..110 USD
Samsung SGH-P400..85 USD
Samsung SGH-P408..210 USD
Samsung SGH-P730..120 USD
Samsung SGH-S200..70 USD
Samsung SGH-S300..65 USD
Samsung SGH-S300M..90 USD
Samsung SGH-S500...90 USD
Samsung SGH-V200...90 USD
Samsung SGH-X400...90 USD
Samsung SGH-X430...90 USD
Samsung SGH-X600...90 USD
Samsung X450........95 USD
Samsung D600 ......145$
Samsung P860 .....145$
Samsung P850 .....125$
Samsung D600......115$
Samsung P860.....115$
samsung z700 .....$160
Interested buyers should contact BERNARD through email for more informations
bernardphones@yahoo.com or call 2348023903583
MOBILE PHONES FOR SALE @ BEST PRICES
March 20th, 2006 at 8:43 pmWe are from (madrid spain). Enuelcommunications We are Dealer,Importers and Exporters,in all kinds of mobile phones ranges from Nokia/Qtek/Samsung/LG/Sony Ericsson/Motorola/Alcatel/panasonic/Treo With Bluetooth, all Brands and Models of Nextel Phones. This are new Brand New T2 Euro specs, unlocked, sim-free, no operator logo, come in their original sealed box, With 1 year international warranty from the manufacturer,ALSO SUPPORT English & Spanish manual, Finland made. Equipped with a variety of high frequency, a large team of professional personnel.
PREST BUSY WORLD LTD MOBILE PHONES LIMITED.
August 21st, 2006 at 7:08 pmNEW GSM PHONES/PDA - UNBEATABLE PRICES WE ARE CERTIFIED WHOLESALERS OF
VARIOUS GSM MOBILE PHONES AT VERY AFFORDABLE PRICES ATTACH IS OUR VERY
CURRENT PRICE LIST OF GSM PHONES FOR YOUR REFERENCE ALL PHONES/PDA ARE
BRAND NEW SIM FREE/OPEN LINES/UNLOCK.
THE KINDS OF SIDEKICKS ARE LISTED
BELOW:
1996 Transfer Case: Sidekick 1996, and 1997 automatic....$140 usd
Sidekick Basic Kit.......................................$150 usd
Sidekick II T-Mobile Cell Phone with Color Screen........$130 usd
T-Mobile Sidekick 2 Danger Cell Phone....................$130 usd
T-Mobile Sidekick II TMO to Go Prepaid Phone.............$140 usd
Mobile Sidekick II.......................................$110 usd
ProTop 2 Piece Hardtop Suzuki Vitara / Chevy Tracker.....$150 usd
Protop 2 Piece Hardtop for Sidekick / Tracker ...........$160 usd
Original Extended Carbox Package 1989-1998...............$140 usd
Original Extended Carbox Sidekick/Tracker 2 &............$130 usd
T-Mobile Sidekick 2 Danger Cell Phone....................$130 usd
SIDEKICK 3 for just......................................$170 usd
LAPTOPS
Dell Latitude C640 1.8GHz P4 Laptop w/CD-RW......$350USD
Dell Inspiron XPS M140 Notebook Computer for Home.....$480USD
Sony VAIO FS540P - Pentium M 730 1.6 GHz - 15.4" TFT...$500USD
Sony Intel Pentium M 100GB Notebook Computer with DVD+/-R/RW Drive...$550USD
ThinkPad G40 2389 - C 2.5 GHz - 14.1" TFT IBM.....$580USD
Panasonic Toughbook 18 Touchscre......$500USD
HP Compaq Business Notebook nc8230 - Pentium M 760 2 GHz - 15.4" TFT...$950USD
HP Compaq Mobile Workstation nw8240 - Pentium M 760 2 GHz - 15.4" TFT...$780USD
and many more..............
AND MANY MORE OF CHOICES.................................
WE PROVIDE A GOOD AND FAST SERVICES, OUR SHIPPMENT IS WITHIN
48HRS.
FOR MORE INFROMATION ABOUT OUR PRODUCT,YOU CAN CONTACT US ON OUR VARIOUS EMAIL....prest_busyworldltd@yahoo.com