Anywho, on Iran, its a ’scare’. This whole “Bush is ready to invade!” thing just really isn’t true. The UN hasn’t even been called upon to help yet, and we all know how much they’ll help and all the time they’ll waste. Those on the left will have plenty of time to prevent bombings or invasion by making wives (Judge Alito?) cry or funding Air America radio stations (conflict of interest?), no worries. Again, for shame. Its disgusting how disorganized and corrupt this party got led me to being a Republican rather than a Centrist.

Bring the troops home – all of ‘em

For the record, I support Israel giving up the west bank regardless and in perpetuity, but “Palestinian” Terrorists and Arab leaders will always use concessions as a blank cheque to keep the murder going. Syria is the worst offender in this, including their invasion of and destruction of the democratic state of Lebanon. Incidentally, it is because of massacres carried out by by Syrian-backed Hezbollah against Christian Phalangist villages that led to the appalling mass murders at Sabra and Shatila. Israelis kicked out their government for not stopping the Phalangists by force. If positions had been reversed, Palestinians would be handing out sweets to children.

It will be a loooong time indeed before there is peace in the region, but we are witnessing the rebirth of an independant Lebanon once more and that gives me hope.

Lastly, I believe firmly that the current administration in the US is absolutely the most corrupt and morally bankrupt in last fifty years.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/begin.html

Basically I could equally ask you about George Washington and the revolutionaries. The parrellels are startling, including their treatment of the natives.

Further, if you were going to bring up something as a rebuttal you should have pointed to Der Yessin, when the Israelies wiped out a peaceful village in order to try and prevent the siege starving them out of the region.

Now I don’t believe that Israelies are angels but I don’t believe them to be devils either, which is how the popular media portrays them. Ignoring the fact that it has been in a state of perpetual war since 1948, and the fact that it wasn’t the agressor in this war.

Further it conveniently forgets the Athletes at Munich. Even Hitler didn’t kill Athletes at the Olympic games.

Further, as an interesting titbit, the original plan was to send the Jews off to Madagascar. Israel was what the Jews wanted. What they originally got was a third of a city and a very thin strip of land. They got attacked on the night the English left, and managed to take the rest of the city.

They then got attacked again, won in six days, took more land again, got attacked again, on Yom Kippur of all days, and took more land again. This wasn’t a matter of terrorist attacks, this was ARMIES attacking Israel.

Now I don’t call the PLO terrorists, they are revolutionaries, but I still side with Israel. For peace, the PLO has to give something up, and that is their wish to eliminate Israel as a independant country. Before any peace can be brokered, that concession has to be made.

Comment by Michael #165

No we don’t Miscreant,

We realize full well that the greatest threat to our democracy is the corporate owned, megalomaniacal, incompetent, mendacious, dictatorial, corrupt, murderous, profiteering, racist, unAmerican, treasonous, Constitution-hating, ultra-right wing, facist George W. Bush regime and his subservient, prostrated, unintelligent, incurious, unquestioning, treasonous, selfish, greedy, racist, inbred, stepford cult worshippers…

You Miscreant (Michael) are the threat…

Comment by Bruce Gorton #168

Bruce,

How many UN resolutions has Israel ignored/violated?

Tell us about Sharon in Lebannon and the Palestinian refugee camps Sabra and Shatila…

What about Menachem Begin and the Urgun (sic) I believe it was, were they terrorists?

and finally, If the US and Europeans at Yalta- or wherever the hell they announced the establishment of Israel- felt so guilty about NOT having done anything to stop the holocaust (the U.S. actually turned away ships of Jewish refugees fleeing the carnage) then why in the hell didn’t they Europeans and Americans set up Jewish settlements here in UT, ID, MT, CO or any number of under-inhabited states? Or why didn’t the Europeans help absorb them throughout France,GB, and elsewhere, instead of these powers forcing the Palestinians to give up THEIR lands to accommodate the newly formed Jewish state?

Ten reasons why we as Liberals are getting more combatitive and have decided to tell the right wing where they can shove their idealogy.

Except in each case of Israel invading a neighbour, Israel was itself, attacked by those self same groups bent on its complete annihilation. The PLO has never once said Israel has the right to exist. The UN in it’s various resolutions, well note that they also slammed Israel for rescuing hostages from Ida Amin. That is the UN’s relationship with Israel in a nutshell.

You still haven’t answered me on naming one thing Bush has done to make America a better place. So far my AIDS denying president is still doing better then yours. Come I-Right-I say something, surely Bush’s reign can’t have been allll bad.

Second Michael:

“Name calling and hatred seem to be the only tools you’re able to weild as you desperately lash out at everyone. Have you ever tried to engage anyone in some meaingful conversation? Do you even know how to be civil to someone you disagree with? You’re so blinded by hatred that you can’t see anything clearly–you should seek help–seriously.

Comment by Michael — January 13, 2006 @ 1:44 pm”

“Bruce Gorton Loser–

Your spin on reality is so typical of the views espoused on this site. No matter what happens in the news, I can predict with absolut certainty how the left will interpret it–and sure enough, I come here and see that I was right. I’t always the same thing with you guys–you’ve all become indoctrinated by the Democratic party. You say all of the same things, you believe all of the same things, and you all persecute those who don’t share your beliefs. You’re just like a religious cult–except your god is your own inflated view of yourself. AND that’s enough reason for me to tell you where to shove your ideology.

Comment by Michael — January 16, 2006 @ 11:20 am”

And here I was trying to be civil. Thanks for proving my point about how rightwinger react to civil discourse though.

Also as a reply to the second quoted post, so are you saying that torturing people is not wrong? Or that maybe, government officials should be above the law? Or, that lies are an acceptable means of winning an argument? Gee, that explains a lot.

All too often the left is too preoccupied with the sound of their own voices, too enamored with their own intellect, and too arrogant to see the folly of their position. They put their collective heads in the sand and remain completely ignorant of the threat that is in the world today. Even if a nuke was dropped on NYC, they still wouldn’t get it. Thank God not everyone has their head in the sand, and that there are people in this country like GWB who are willing to face reality, roll up their sleeves and do what must be done.

All to often the Filthy Left drapes itself in the robes and sandals of Gandhi who grandly counseled the Jews to go willingly to their doom to teach Hitler a moral lesson. They would like the USA to do the same. It’s funny they never make that kind of suggestion to the head chopping “freedom fighters” who would like nothing more than to appease their demon god by dropping a nuke on NYC.

Your spin on reality is so typical of the views espoused on this site. No matter what happens in the news, I can predict with absolut certainty how the left will interpret it–and sure enough, I come here and see that I was right. I’t always the same thing with you guys–you’ve all become indoctrinated by the Democratic party. You say all of the same things, you believe all of the same things, and you all persecute those who don’t share your beliefs. You’re just like a religious cult–except your god is your own inflated view of yourself. AND that’s enough reason for me to tell you where to shove your ideology.

Ten reasons why we as Liberals are getting more combatitive and have decided to tell the right wing where they can shove their idealogy.

1st: Basically we have been fighting off lies, Ad Hominem attacks and death threats. All because we ask questions and don’t just shut up when a fist gets shoved into our faces.

Needless to say, we all tried reason for about the whole of Bush’s first term. It didn’t work, all we got was called a bunch of pussies for it, so now we are just calling it like we see it. You will understand if the Liberal left (I wear the badge proudly) is pissed off right now with anyone spouting a rightwing viewpoint.

2nd: It has been my observation on this site, that most of the rightwingers cannot argue. Steed, is an exception because he does sometimes try to reason out his arguments, but for the most part we are dealing with people like I-Right-I.

3rd: Everyone on the left believes, actually believes in a better tomorrow. We don’t like corruption in our government, we seriously despise people who go with the “But he did it first” defense, and we really actually believe that moral superiority should flow from morally superior behaviour. We may have given up on the reasoned argument, but we aren’t pro torture or self righteous lying.

4rth: Afghanistan was fully justified, but we remember the mission there was to capture Osama. Osama hasn’t been caught yet.

5th: Iraq was based on a lie, told while the war in Afghanistan wasn’t going entirely to plan, which landed America in a meaningless war while the economy wasn’t doing too well. In South Africa we referred to it as being fought over Weapons of Mass Distraction.

6th: Valerie Plame being outed by her own government, thereby ending her career while putting the lives of her, her contacts and her family at risk. Terrorist organisations don’t play games with that sort of thing.

7th: Enron and other scandals where the Republican government though not investigated, was implicated in shady dealings.

8th: Clinton leaving America in the best economic condition it had ever been, and yet getting blamed for every bad thing that happened.

9th: The end of the UN being brought about by America refusing to listen when the UN said not to invade Iraq.

10th: Bush’s photo-ops in New Orleans, his lack of concern, and the fact that the two presidents previous to him did more to help deal with the disaster then his appointed chief of FEMA Mike Brown. We also remember Mike Brown outright lying about why he failed so utterly to respond to the crisis.

The above ten reasons are also why we don’t believe the Bush Administration when it says Iran is a clear and present danger. Bush is the boy who cried wolf, and sadly, he is stretching America’s resources to the point where it can no longer reply to his calls to arms.

Nobody cares about your inane roll call. What is it with you guys anyway? You continually give the likes of big papa a free pass, then you’re the first to cry hypocrit when someone gives it back to him. Sounds pretty hypocritical and self-serving to me, but then again I shouldn’t expect too much from the intellectually dishonest.

That’s for congress to decide should we come to that. War as always should be a last resort.