McClellan On Extraordinary Rendition To Syria: “That’s A New One”
McClellan On Extraordinary Rendition To Syria: “That’s A New One”
At today’s press conference Scott McClellan claimed he has never heard reports that the United States sent detainees to Syria, where they were tortured:
QUESTION: There are allegations that we sent people to Syria to be tortured…
MCCLELLAN: To Syria?
QUESTION: Yes. You’ve never heard of any allegations like that?
MCCLELLAN: No, I’ve never heard that one. That’s a new one.
QUESTION: Syria? You haven’t heard that?
MCCLELLAN: That’s a new one.
QUESTION: Well, I can assure you it’s been well publicized. My question is…
MCCLELLAN: By what, bloggers?
Actually it was reported on page A1 of the Washington Post more than two years ago:
A Canadian citizen who was detained last year at John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York as a suspected terrorist said Tuesday he was secretly deported to Syria and endured 10 months of torture in a Syrian prison.
It’s also been reported by the New York Times, the Associated Press, New Yorker Magazine and just about every other major news source in the country.
McClellan himself was asked about in on 2/28/05:
Q Has the President ever issued an order against torture of prisoners? And do we still send prisoners to Syria to be tortured?
MR. McCLELLAN: The President has stated publicly that we do not condone torture and that he would never authorize the use of torture. He has made that –
Q But has he issued an order?
MR. McCLELLAN: — statement very publicly, and he’s made it clear to everybody in the government that we do not torture.
Q Well, why do we still hear these stories then?
MR. McCLELLAN: If there are allegations of wrongdoing, then the President expects those allegations to be fully investigated and if there is actual wrongdoing that occurs, then people need to be held to account. The President has made that very clear.
Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.
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125 Responses to “McClellan On Extraordinary Rendition To Syria: “That’s A New One””
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Gee, why do you even think that the White House press secretary would know these things? What an inept bunch…
January 18th, 2006 at 2:21 pmIf scotty the closet boy was tortured he might remember, huh?
I’d hate to see him water baoarded unitil almost complete organ failure — and then just a little further..
Awwwww ,,that would make me sad……………NOT !
January 18th, 2006 at 2:24 pm“MCCLELLAN: By what, bloggers?”
Keep pushing, bloggers. This is proof positive that your influence is being felt…
January 18th, 2006 at 2:25 pmhang on a sec, wasnt syria one of Bushcos axis’ of Evil?
Of coures Bush probably signed the Torture Amendment. Kids let this be a lesson to you, never join a college frat house where folks such as duhbya ‘brand’ their Kappas with a coat hanger. So much for being ‘Educated’
January 18th, 2006 at 2:27 pmMCCLELLAN: By what, bloggers?
Bloggers are Gonna Kick your Bootay ScottyMac
January 18th, 2006 at 2:29 pmNo kidding, whiskeypete. The assault is right out there in front of us: if it were up them, it’s either Fox News, or no news… Protect the center, destroy the periphery.
January 18th, 2006 at 2:30 pmWhy do liberals care more about the rights of terrorists than protecting us from another attack?
January 18th, 2006 at 2:32 pm“MCCLELLAN: By what, bloggers?”
Hahahaha. I wish i could watch every press conference. He puts me in stitches.
January 18th, 2006 at 2:33 pmbloggers haha
the internets ha ha ha
we’re getting under their skin; keep it up
January 18th, 2006 at 2:36 pm“Why do liberals care more about the rights of terrorists than protecting us from another attack?”
Comment by Randy — January 18, 2006 @ 2:32 pm
Why do conservatives care more about party than county?
January 18th, 2006 at 2:42 pmRandy,
The logic that escapes you is this - either laws apply to everyone, or they apply to no one. Our founding fathers used a much more eloquent phrase that encapsulates this concept, and that is that among the truths that they held to be self evident, the first and foremost was “that all men are created equal”.
To compromise this concept renders our whole structure irrelevant, since it is this concept upon which the Constitution is based. The rights that you seem so willing to surrender, that of equal footing, due process, and individual liberties, are precisely what our ancestors fought for in the revolutionary war. It perplexes me that you disregard them so easily.
And to address your phrasing regarding “liberals caring more about the rights of terrorist than protecting us from another attackâ€, and acknowledging that it is the structure of our founding fathers that demands the rights of individuals, then by extension you argue that our founding fathers were liberals. I accept that argument.
January 18th, 2006 at 2:42 pmObviously, McClellan knows about the man deported to Syria. What he is “forgetting”, is the idea that our country sent a man to Syria for the express purpose of him being tortured. We did not do that. We deported a suspicious person back to their home country. If the Syrians tortured this man, it isn’t our fault. He didn’t belong here, so we sent him packing. Unfortunately, since Syria is governed by the same kind of terroristic, despotic government that we deposed in Iraq, the man was tortured.
January 18th, 2006 at 2:43 pmYou bloggers are what’s wrong with politics! Why must you constantly point out when politicians lie, cheat, steal, and break the law? If you just let it lie, we wouldn’t have all these problems like broken Medicare, tens of thousands of Iraqi and Americans dead, privacy violations, and an utterly destroyed New Orleans. Get with ethe program.
January 18th, 2006 at 2:44 pmRiiiiiiigggggghhhhhhttttt.
January 18th, 2006 at 2:45 pmBy what, bloggers?
How many people did you kill today just so you could put Zawahri’s name in the papers, Scotty boy?
January 18th, 2006 at 2:46 pm#13 I think you’re missing something, Jackass. The person who was tortured was a Canadian citizen; not a Syrian citizen. Got it now?
January 18th, 2006 at 2:46 pm“since Syria is governed by the same kind of terroristic, despotic government that we deposed in Iraq, the man was tortured.”
Comment by Jackass (Dem) — January 18, 2006 @
That should read “since Syria is governed by the same kind of terroristic, despotic government that we [installed and then ]deposed in Iraq, the man was tortured.”
You’re welcome.
January 18th, 2006 at 2:46 pm#7 - Randy, liberals care about the rights of all Americans, and those on our soil. Haven’t you heard there are things (like our Constitutional rights) worth dying for? Stop peeing your pants and grow a spine.
January 18th, 2006 at 2:46 pmDoesn’t matter, Amy. The man had ties to Syria, which is why he was deported there. Got it now?
January 18th, 2006 at 2:46 pmSpeaking of “Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.”, see Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation. Here are the first few:
January 18th, 2006 at 2:47 pm- Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.
- Become incredulous and indignant.
- Create rumor mongers.
- Use a straw man.
- Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule.
- Hit and Run.
- Question motives.
- Invoke authority.
- Play Dumb.
…and more…
Apparently, Scotty thought he’d shoved that one into the Memory Hole … must’ve missed.
January 18th, 2006 at 2:47 pmWhy do liberals care more about the rights of terrorists than protecting us from another attack?
Comment by Randy — January 18, 2006 @ 2:32 pm
I guess you didn’t care enough to follow the link provided, or even learn more about Mahrer Ahrar’s ordeal.
Mahrer Ahrar is not a terrorist and does not have ties to any terrorist groups.
Arar, a thirty-four-year-old graduate of McGill University whose family emigrated to Canada when he was a teen-ager, was arrested on September 26, 2002, at John F. Kennedy Airport.(…)Arar, who was not formally charged, was placed in handcuffs and leg irons by plainclothes officials and transferred to an executive jet. The plane flew to Washington, continued to Portland, Maine, stopped in Rome, Italy, then landed in Amman, Jordan.(…)Ten hours after landing in Jordan, Arar said, he was driven to Syria, where interrogators, after a day of threats, “just began beating on me.”(…)Although he initially tried to assert his innocence, he eventually confessed to anything his tormentors wanted him to say. “You just give up,” he said. “You become like an animal.”
OUTSOURCING TORTURE
Why do you not care for the rule of law? Why do you support illegal detentions? Why do you support torture of innocent people?
January 18th, 2006 at 2:47 pmSo Randy, since you wish to take IRIs Stool
of Wisdom,What are you Saying exactly?
That Reagan Selling and training Al qaeda as freedom fighters was right?
Or that Sr. and Brits selling Saddam WMD was Right?
Or that Rumsfeld making sure Saddam has what he needed was right?
How so does Torture get an answer? It gives the Answer you want, as SEEN by the Intelligence gatherd to go to war, that BUSHCO tortured a LIE out of?
That Able Danger correctly Identified 3 of the 5 Saudi cells and the Bushco cabal shut down the Program, those rights?
How about that Curveball was debunked before the War ever started?
Oh I see, Its RIGHT to lie to the Public?
Its RIGHT to foment Wars?
Its RIGHT to hide facts?
Cmon Randy AKA IRI, you can do Better
January 18th, 2006 at 2:49 pmHey Jackass,
He was a suspected terrorist, mcuh like yourself. He was not found to have any ties to terrorists. He was tortured for no reason. Will you be torture for a reason or not?
January 18th, 2006 at 2:50 pm“The man had ties to Syria, which is why he was deported there. Got it now?”
Comment by Jackass (Dem) — January 18, 2006
Still waitin’ on them WMD’s Jackoff. Boy you’ll buy any hokum with a republican label on it, won’t you?
January 18th, 2006 at 2:50 pmOh theres my Lover boy
See he changed named to DEMS
Come out and play IRI
you tuff guy yew
Smooches IRI
Say Jackass, werent you the Crying about guilt by association the other day?Hypocrite
January 18th, 2006 at 2:52 pmSo then if what Randu says is true, then Bush by association to Jeff Gannon, they are Gay, and terrorists?
January 18th, 2006 at 2:53 pmIs that about your Logic IRI-J-ass?
What by bloggers????
They are always trying to marginalize. It is a consistent strategy of making unfavorable news seem either distant or unimportant.
January 18th, 2006 at 2:54 pmShould we then Torture BUSH CHENEY and GANNON to get the truth out they keep ‘Forgetting’?
January 18th, 2006 at 2:55 pmIs that what you are saying Randy?
So Randy Anyone from Syria needs torture?
How about Mexico?
Cowboys?
Indians?
Lawyers?
Cops?
British?
You are one Paranoid Person Jackass
January 18th, 2006 at 2:56 pmRandy needs a poli sci 101 crash course. My Lord..I’d have to start at the very begginning with that son.
January 18th, 2006 at 2:57 pmAnd the Wurmsers ate into the Neo-con brain..
Enjoy the Asylum IRI, the rooms are quite comfy
January 18th, 2006 at 2:58 pmand padded for your paranoid needs
medications beatings torture come free
Doesn’t matter, Amy. The man had ties to Syria, which is why he was deported there. Got it now?
Jackass, the guy was INNOCENT. INNOCENT. INNOCENT.
The fact that he has “ties” according to you to Syria doesn’t change the fact that he was INNOCENT of any crimes.
Still think he should have been tortured? Jeez, what’s wrong with you people.
By the way, the guy came back to CANADA, where he lives, with no fingernails. Thinks about that for a second, you sick bastard.
January 18th, 2006 at 2:59 pmCould someone who is a president Bush supporter answer this simple question? Why did McClellan just answer the question….did the president issue an order prohibiting the torture of prisoners? Could it be that he does nto care about prisoners being tortured? Does nto care about the guilt or innocense of prisoners?
So this guy was ona terror list that got him deported ultimately to Syria where he was tortured. And the righties accushim of being a supected terrorist so torture is OK then. How about a 4 year old whose name is on the no fly list, apparently they suispect him of terrorism, would it have been ok to deport and torture him? How abotu people who write books critical of the president? I’m assuming that they are on the no -fly lists because they are terrorists? Do people lose all rights when the adminstration acuses them of being terrorists?
January 18th, 2006 at 3:01 pmAho, How so do ameerycans get crazy
krashy isht that IRI
Rhice ah powell kray ahso
how so isth dat stage and how lights make krazy?
It’s a raggedy-ass old stage, and the act that plays on it isn’t getting any fresher, either. All partisan sniping aside, this latest counteroffensive from the White House says just about everything you need to know about George Bush and the men who work for him.
Mr Ho Lurvs Meester IRI he fat happy amerikun. Mr Ho like Hoes
January 18th, 2006 at 3:02 pmI wonder if the completely baseless no-fly list came from the illegal wiretapping?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
January 18th, 2006 at 3:03 pmMr Ho wants meet man call IRI
January 18th, 2006 at 3:04 pmConfucious say man whom talk much
must have big ass,
Mr Ho Like Big ass.
Mr ho Like Neo-Hoes
Every time Scott utters the words “very clear,” a hamster somewhere has a seizure.
January 18th, 2006 at 3:05 pmWow, the moral compass of some of the Bush lovers posting here is incredibly skewed. They better “turn the other cheek” a little bit or they’re going to hell. That any American would condone any kind of torture is just wack-o. They would be happier in Saudi Arabia.
January 18th, 2006 at 3:05 pmBy the way. He wasn’t deported. That is a legal process conducted by a judge. That’s not what happened.
He was rendered. Big difference. So stop everyone saying he was deported.
January 18th, 2006 at 3:05 pmI have a hard time ignoring some of our resident trolls, but even I, can easily ignore dickforbrains randi. He’s such a tool that it’s just red meat to see if that boi can get us to a frenzy.
not worth my time or this sites bandwidth.
January 18th, 2006 at 3:06 pmLighten up!
From the WITLIST:
That Abramoff!
That Abramoff!
I do not like that Abramoff!
“Would you like to play some golf?”
I do not want to play some golf.
I do not want to, Abramoff.
“We could fly you there for free.
Off to Scotland, by the sea.”
I do not want to fly for free.
I don’t like Scotland by the sea.
I do not want to play some golf.
I do not want to, Abramoff.
“Would you, could you, take this bribe?
Could you, would you, for the tribe?”
I would not, could not, take this bribe.
I could not, would not, for the tribe.
“If we strong armed corporations
Into giving you donations?
They’d be funnelled to your PAC.
Would you then cut us some slack?”
I would not, could not, cut you slack.
I do not care about my PAC.
I do not want to play some golf.
I do not want to, Abramoff.
“A plane! A plane! A plane! A plane!
Would you, could you, for a plane?”
I could not, would not, for a plane.
Not for a bribe, not for the tribe.
Not for donations from corporations.
Not for my PAC, not for some slack.
Not from any schmoe named Jack.
“Would you help us buy some ships
Perfect for quick gambling trips?
Talk to people in the know
For a little quid pro quo?
Oh come now, don’t be a snob.
Let us give your wife a job.”
I will not help you buy some ships.
I do not wish for gambling trips.
My wife does not need a job
Even if she is a snob.
We do not like bribes, can’t you see?
Why won’t you just let me be?
“You do not like bribes, so you say.
Try them, try them, and you may.
Try them and you may, I say.”
Jack. If you will let me be
I will try them, then you’ll see.
Say…. I do like playing golf!
I like it, I do, Abramoff!
I do like Scotland by the sea.
It’s such a thrilling place to be!
And I will take this bribe.
And I will help the tribe.
And I will take donations
From big corporations.
And I will help you buy some ships.
And I will take quick gambling trips.
Say, I’ll give anyone the shaft
As long as it involves some graft!
I do so like playing golf!
January 18th, 2006 at 3:06 pmThank you! Thank you,
Abramoff!
Doesn’t matter, Amy. The man had ties to Syria, which is why he was deported there. Got it now?
Comment by Jackass (Dem) — January 18, 2006 @ 2:46 pm
This is as primitive an argument as it can get.
His “ties” is that he was born there but Mr. Ahrar is a Canadian citizen. His detention in the US, and “deportation” to Syria were illegal.
Further, he wasn’t deported: He was “rendered” with the express purpose that he be tortured. Torture is illegal.
Torture is never acceptable, nor do we hand over people to countries that do torture.
January 18th, 2006 at 3:09 pmPres. George Bush
Thursday, 011906 @ 1100 EST
Washington Post White House Reporter Michael Fletcher discusses on-line the latest in political news.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ discussion/ 2006/ 01/ 13/ DI2006011301042.html
Come on down.
January 18th, 2006 at 3:14 pm#Every time Scott utters the words “very clear,†a hamster somewhere has a seizure.
Comment by Louis — January 18, 2006 @ 3:05 pm
Mr Ho look forsh Hamshter. Mr hos hamshter very angry. he no like Dark Craves. MR Scotty. How does Mr scotty use Hamshter?
Mr ho want know Why Scotty lurvs Hamshters?
Do Mr Ho Friend IRI dosh he Like Hamshters?
January 18th, 2006 at 3:17 pmMr Ho go. You tell IRI I wirsh Mr Ho Meet Him.
Mr Ho go Frie Rhice Eat. Tell Mr Randy Mr Ho know.
one of these days, someone in the Bush’s white house will actually tell the truth and surprise the world. Its gotten so bad I don’t expect anyone in bushco to have a memory past yesterday, or know the truth from a lie, or to allow the truth to spew past their lips.
January 18th, 2006 at 3:17 pmWhen oh when are we going to see someone indicted?
Mr Dano yew funni Ameerkun
Mr Ho laff funni
Do Dano Havtsh Mr Ho frind numbr? Mr Ho want Randy soo asho bad. me here he do long time. Cheep. Tell Mr Randy Call Mr HO.
January 18th, 2006 at 3:19 pmMr Ho Numbr
Fi FI fo- fo fo Fi fi
January 18th, 2006 at 3:20 pmSounds nice california_reality_check, but I have one question….
What has the Wash Post done for me lately?
I mean, you broke Watergate, that was good. But what have you done since the 70’s? Oh, yea that’s right, you helped beat up Bill Clinton, you printed malicious lies about Al Gore and John Kerry as if they were true. You didn’t even mention that the sources were political and possibly dishonest.
& you’ve done nothing at all about our new King Georgie. You print (parrot) what they say without mentioning truthiness.
I’ll still listen to what you have to say, but you’ve got to prove your worth, all over again.
January 18th, 2006 at 3:24 pmMore Orwellian 1984 doublethink. The amount of lies, the utter fabrications, pouring out of this administration is staggering. What is almost worse is that seem to believe their own bullshit.
January 18th, 2006 at 3:25 pm[…] Read more Tales […]
January 18th, 2006 at 3:28 pmWhat hurtful comments “kindness”. You certainly do not represent your screen name very well. Fortunately, I have thick skin. It doesn’t really matter what gets posted here. This is all just a waste of time and you are all fooling yourselves if you think you are making a difference. This site is purely for entertainment purposes only. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The playbook for the left hasn’t changed in over thirty years. When the Republicans retain or build on their edge in the fall elections, will that cause any of you to think differently?
January 18th, 2006 at 3:29 pm#7
January 18th, 2006 at 3:37 pmThat talking point is long gone, used up, where have you been?
Yea but I’m not the one lying to all up on a soapbox. I sleep well at night.
January 18th, 2006 at 3:46 pmAn effective liar does believe his own bullshit.
January 18th, 2006 at 3:46 pmThese idiots can’t even get their star domestic terrorist case against Jose Padilla together.
By the time that one is over they will be trying to give him a ticket for jaywalking.
January 18th, 2006 at 3:56 pmI feel we are at a tipping point here. Judging by all the pathetic attacks coming out, this admin is close to done. The signs are out there. People know that these repubs are crooked and everyone that JackOff touched will be toast.
Then there’s Chimpy’s little NSA problem, which is not going away…only a complete moron would go on national TV and admit to a federal crime.
Then there is Delay’s prosecution in Texas…
Oh and Fitzgerald is still ticking out there. If he comes for Rove or Cheney, it’s over.
VETO ALITO!
January 18th, 2006 at 4:01 pm#33
Nice Floyd reference, Neo-gones!
January 18th, 2006 at 4:06 pm“Why do liberals care more about the rights of terrorists than protecting us from another attack?â€
Comment by Randy — January 18, 2006 @ 2:32 pm
What TERRORISTS? Who the hell are you talking about?
The 50,000 plus Iraq citizens and soldiers you have imprisoned and tortured?
Whadda ya loopy?
When you guys actually start going after some terrorists come see me. But in the meantime…..
January 18th, 2006 at 4:21 pm“This is all just a waste of time and you are all fooling yourselves if you think you are making a difference. This site is purely for entertainment purposes only. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Randy”
Then why would you be insane enough to devote your time to something that doesn’t make a difference? And why do you do it over and over again? And why do you expect different results from your actions?
I find your ‘confession’ on how you feel insane interesting, and really kinda sad. I know you must feel inadequate and powerless based on this posting, but I forgive you for your weakness and your insecurity and you should forgive yourself for your failings of confidence. Whether you make a difference in the world or not doesn’t make you a failed person, only if you don’t try to make the world or a better place or unintentionally do so are you a failure. Oh wait, sorry, that last part does mean you’re a failure - but that’s ok, I forgive you for that as well.
January 18th, 2006 at 4:25 pm“When the Republicans retain or build on their edge in the fall elections, will that cause any of you to think differently? Randy”
If you lose, would you think differently? Probably not, that would require an open mind. And just because someone loses, doesn’t make them wrong. Were the anti-fascists in Germany and Japan wrong because they lost? Winning, oppressing or being ‘rich’, doesn’t make someone right or moral - and often means the opposite. Most people of conscience are more concerned about standing up for what’s right, than ‘winning’. That’s why democrats brought about civil rights even though it handed all of the bigots to the Republicans. It was the right thing to do, and it was more important than winning.
When you grow up into an adult, maybe you’ll understand morality better, and understand why we believe and act, and why we forgive you for your hate and actions. It’s what a ‘good’ person does.
January 18th, 2006 at 4:29 pmThose Pesky Reporters…
“Maybe if I ignore them, they’ll just go away.” That seems to be the continuing attitude of White House Press Secretary, Scott Mcclellan….
January 18th, 2006 at 4:29 pm“This is all just a waste of time and you are all fooling yourselves if you think you are making a difference. This site is purely for entertainment purposes only. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Randyâ€
You know, I hear the same thing in other Blogs from right wing trolls.
The same trolls that go back to their own blogs to post their side.
Whats funny is they don’t understand that when the White House Press spokesman keeps bringing up Blogs, and when officials, news Journalists like Russert and Stephanopolis do so too, you know Randy’s little rant could not be further from the truth.
In fact, I believe it was Wolf Blitzer (have to doublecheck that) who said they were “self correcting” sources of information, meaning that incorrect data won’t remain unchallenged for long.
Blogs are public meeting places, and our words are permantly recorded.
Blogs are the town halls and public forums of the future.
January 18th, 2006 at 4:32 pmEarth to Randy:
Do you work for Diebold ?
January 18th, 2006 at 4:35 pmI can’t wait to meet up with Randy in 2008. His neighbors say he is shifty, owns guns, and is a member of the Elks which I think is a terrorist front group. While I and other Democrats do not participate in torture that doesn’t mean we won’t seend is fat ass to Berlin and force him to listen to Salome over and over again.
January 18th, 2006 at 5:09 pmThis is all just a waste of time and you are all fooling yourselves if you think you are making a difference.
Comment by Randy — January 18, 2006 @ 3:29 pm
Well, Randy, then I guess you’re just wasting your time here. You clearly aren’t making a difference.
January 18th, 2006 at 5:18 pmWhy does McClellan even hold faux press briefings? He says nothing. Denials, follow the “I will check into it” follow the “I don’t know of that” follow the outright lies.
January 18th, 2006 at 5:19 pmAs I said before I do not agree with torture but I cannot wait to see an american hostage in an orange jump suit being waterboarded to death on a video.. but first revived a couple times ..
January 18th, 2006 at 5:26 pmtotally digusted with you Bush suppoters
January 18th, 2006 at 5:27 pmScotty is perhaps the worst press secretary I can remember.
I don’t hate many people. Bush is hard to hate. He’s too dumb. It’s like hating a cow. What’s the purpose in it.
But McClellan?
He makes it easy.
Each and every morning he gets up, gets out of bed, does 2 situps, a half a push up, and tells himself how the American people as well as the White House Press Corp are nothing more than a thorn in his side, and how he wishes they would let him start hanging members of the press corp like they did in Germany.
Then he prays to his god asking over and over for David Gregory to be hit by a truck, and if his male endowment could’nt be at least large enough to grab, and heads out the door for another day of saying FU#$#K YOU to the American people and the press corp they send each day to question him.
He really makes it easy.
January 18th, 2006 at 5:30 pmI’m not surprised Scotty “forgot.” What surprises me is that anyone in the media remembers.
January 18th, 2006 at 5:33 pmAnd a thick skull to match.
January 18th, 2006 at 5:34 pmWhen they start saying the bloggers are crazy, child molestors, and giving comfort to the enemy, we will know we are really getting to them.
Bloggers have far more credibility than Puffy.
January 18th, 2006 at 5:42 pmEver notice that the Repugnicans never frame wrondoers as people who will be “held accountable”? Nope, they will always “be held to account”. Don’t ever want to stray too close to that ol’ accountability thing.
January 18th, 2006 at 5:52 pmWhy do conservatives care more about party than county?
Ummm, I think you misspelled “power” there….
I’d bet dollar to donuts that these wankers, thugs (and worse) would dump party for power in a millisecond. Which, BTW, may be what you’ll see quite a bit of this next year in the Year of the Long Knives…..
Cheers,
January 18th, 2006 at 5:56 pmseymour hersch on c span recently said that many of the renditions were going to poland, ivan the terrible v. dubya the torturer
January 18th, 2006 at 6:02 pmWhen the Republicans retain or build on their edge in the fall elections, will that cause any of you to think differently?
Yeah, but first they indict Valerie and Joe Wilson.
The (lack of) mind of a True Believer is a wonder to behold. Sometimes you have to wonder how they manage to get bourishment stuffed into their pies without assistance.
Cheers,
January 18th, 2006 at 6:06 pmWhile you all worry about torturing terrorists, the President will consider options against Iran. I’m sure you’ll kick and scream, but in the end you will be pushed aside so the President can protect America.
January 18th, 2006 at 6:19 pmTetra King: so in what branch of the military will you be enlisting ?
Which ones are the terrorists ?
January 18th, 2006 at 6:22 pm#80 - I would argue the President of Iran is a terrorist or at least wants to be one. I would argue a nice air campaign (like Clinton used to do) blowing up anything nuclear. I would also put a hit out on Iran’s President. Aside from slandering my opinion and calling me a chickenhawk (or gushing about your own service), what do you suggest. This is the part liberals always screw up - how do you suggest we deal with Iran. Here’s a hint: Crying about torture is not a solution.
January 18th, 2006 at 6:26 pm“Here’s a hint: Crying about torture is not a solution. Tetra King”
Does anyone else find the humor in this comment. Tetra, your fear, hate and childlike view of the world gives me much pity towards you. I feel sorry for you, and how much fear and hate seems to have overcome you.
“While you all worry about torturing terrorists, the President will consider options against Iran. I’m sure you’ll kick and scream, but in the end you will be pushed aside so the President can protect America. Tetra King”
How exactly does torture protect america? It makes us look like a dictatorship - lest you forget that one of the justification for invading Iraq was that Saddam tortured. So now you believe Saddam’s torture was good, or is it that you only believe that torture’s OK against the guilty? Now what about the ‘goods’ of torture. Information obtained under torture is considered unreliable by military experts all over the world - so obviously the quality of the information isn’t the concern. And finally you say torturing terrorists, can you be sure that 100% of the people tortured were terrorists? After all, bush has released HUNDREDS from Gitmo alone, and thousands from the prisons in Iraq including Abu Graib. Many of those who’ve been released as being innocent say they were tortured. So just like the nonsense and fear oriented argument that we ‘wiretap the guilty’, you’ve made the indefensible argument that we only torture terrorists, and apparently for no reason since the information retrieved is basically of no value.
Terrorists are criminals - no different than any gang that shoots innocent people or the police. Are you suggesting we should torture gang members next? This kind of fear oriented silliness is what one would expect from a teenage coward - but not an adult. So I forgive you that fear has made you weak. I just hope someday when you regain your strength and courage, you’ll be able to forgive yourself.
January 18th, 2006 at 6:42 pm“I would argue the President of Iran is a terrorist or at least wants to be one. I would argue a nice air campaign (like Clinton used to do) blowing up anything nuclear. I would also put a hit out on Iran’s President. Aside from slandering my opinion and calling me a chickenhawk (or gushing about your own service), what do you suggest. Tetra King”
Diplomacy. Bush should try it sometimes - it can be very effective when a president is competent. Oh wait, that explains why republicans don’t prefer to use it.
January 18th, 2006 at 6:47 pmSo, you would call for the assassination of the leader of a soverign nation, much like Pat Roberts did with Venzuala?
You know that is illegal right?
You know the administration is already in trouble for doing illegal things?
Do you really think the Bush folks need more legal trouble.
I don’t. I think they have their fill.
January 18th, 2006 at 6:48 pmTetra King:
Why do you want to “put a hit out” on Iran’s president? Because he says some nasty things or because Iran might go nuclear? You sound like this guy I knew in high school that got all excited over the prospect of big planes dropping big bombs - some kind of Rambo complex where no reality comes into play, so fantasies of macho militarism can go wild.
January 18th, 2006 at 6:49 pmJuizzee,
Tetra is a throwback to all of the fear based CIA agents and former Nazi soldiers who used to go around killing south american leaders. We may not like the Iranian President, but interestingly enough, he was elected by the majority of his population - unlike Bush. Ironic huh?
Iran was really stupid for not taking the deal the Europeans gave them. But what’s more stupid is calling for the ‘hit’ on an elected official (an act of terror) because that leader does the same governmental acts that our government does. It’s hypocrisy and just more example of how fear cripples the rational mind and makes men say and do stupid things.
January 18th, 2006 at 6:54 pm#66.
Make Randy and Tetra King listen to “Moses und Aaron” for a full week.
January 18th, 2006 at 6:56 pmHow can you tell when Scottie McClellan is lying?…
Easy: his lips are moving. Or else just check his archived statements on the White House’s web site.
January 18th, 2006 at 7:01 pm~~~
“I’m co-operatin’ with ya!”
……
RightPunch:
According to Norman Soloman, the Iranian president became much more popular (an perhaps won the recent election) because anti-americanism grew worse in Iran due to Bush’s policies. So, the ridiculous saber-rattling of the Tetra type may actually increase the danger to us all - what the CIA calls “blowback.”
January 18th, 2006 at 7:04 pm>> MCCLELLAN: By what, bloggers?
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you…
… then they fight you, and then you win.
(said by someone far wiser than I, of course)
Perhaps there’s a fight brewing in the horizon.
January 18th, 2006 at 7:14 pmWell…you can see right there that Scotty-boy tortured that question to death.
Has the president ever issued an order AGAINST TORTURE…?
The president would never AUTOHORIZE THE USE OF TORTURE…
Basic Comprehension 101…seems like Scotty was AWOL too.
January 18th, 2006 at 7:38 pmWhy don’t they ever respond with that “thats the first I head of it”
January 18th, 2006 at 7:41 pmwith:
“well Scotty, seems like a PRESS secretary ought to pick up a major newspaper once in a while. I mean, how did you even find out there are bloggers anyway?
People, you’re missing the nuance here. BushCo does not torture people. They interrogate suspected individuals with ties to terrorism. Therefore, they do not send people to countries that torture people, they send them to countries that interrogate people.
Fiery. Wreck. Worst. President. Ever.
January 18th, 2006 at 8:17 pm“You ain’t guilty ’til you say you’re guilty”
-Great Grandpappy Scotty McClellan-
January 18th, 2006 at 8:33 pmHear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. but BE EVIL
January 18th, 2006 at 8:45 pmWhy is Randy such a simple minded bed wetter? BOO! look Randy just wet his pants and gave up all his rights as an American. He’ll do anything to stop the awful fright. BOO, Randy! look, he’s lost all his wits! How easy it is to take things over with so many Randys about.
January 18th, 2006 at 8:46 pmRandy is afraid, and fear makes people hate and become irrational. Feel pity for him, because he’s not of sound mind when his fear overcomes him. Forgiveness and understanding is what most of these republican ‘lost boys’ need. They’re afraid, and that’s why they cling to anyone who tells them that ‘daddy will fix it’, no matter how much gets screwed up. Poor things.
January 18th, 2006 at 9:07 pmRightPunch is on the RightTrack. I find pitying the Randy’s of the world a lot more comforting than frustration and anger. It’s obvious that things like “logic” and “facts” and “morality” no matter how well presented and buttressed by indisputable and documented fact would fail to budge the ossified intellects of the Randys of the world.
Yeah, Randy. I forgive the fact that you are a frightened and lost soul (and pity the collateral damage your type has brought about to the US and all of civilization). Should you ever wish to shed your abject fear and stand up like a man or woman in the light, we’ll be waiting for you, arms open.
January 18th, 2006 at 9:32 pmIf anyone doubts this, just visit the Bet On Iraq site for themself.
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January 18th, 2006 at 10:08 pm#35
How abotu people who write books critical of the president? I’m assuming that they are on the no -fly lists because they are terrorists? Do people lose all rights when the adminstration acuses them of being terrorists?
Comment by Mark — January 18, 2006 @ 3:01 pm
James Moore is the (co) author of Bush’s Brain
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ jim-moore/ branded_b_13272.html
January 18th, 2006 at 10:36 pmDoes anyone here in this blog question the CLAIMS by Maher Arar that he was tortured or does everyone just accept his word at face value? Was there any physical proof provided by anyone to back up his claims when he was released? The only thing that I am calling into question here is whether or not he WAS tortured, not that he was detained wrongfully.
January 18th, 2006 at 11:28 pmYeah, Smedley, cut the meds! What are you, a wingnut plant?
Nothing good comes from any torture. If you take pleasure from it, you need help.
January 18th, 2006 at 11:56 pm#102, As mentioned above, I believe Maher Arar’s missing fingernails and other physical scars hold up most of his argument. However, I am not a doctor, and have never, in fact, met the man.
January 18th, 2006 at 11:59 pmTracy, very good point.
I’d stopped considering that when I asked myself “Why else would we be rendering anybody to fucken’ Syria?”.
Still, you’re right to ask, and so should we all.
January 19th, 2006 at 12:06 amThat’s what Orwell called ‘The power of facing’.
Does anyone here in this blog question the CLAIMS by Maher Arar that he was tortured or does everyone just accept his word at face value? Was there any physical proof provided by anyone to back up his claims when he was released?
Comment by Tracy — January 18, 2006 @ 11:28 pm
There is no reason to doubt Arar’s word. Why would he made up such an outrageous claim out of thin air?
Plus, maybe you missed it, but the Canadian government launched an inquiry into the Arar illegal “rendition” to Syria, known as the Arar Commission
Here is what the head of the Commission states in the final report:
When I compare all of this information to the story told to me by Mr. Arar, I am convinced that his description of his treatment is Syria is accurate.
Commission of Inquiry - Fact Finder
Mr. Arar was not the only Canadian of MiddleEastern origin who was tortured. All described the same brutal treatment, and their descriptions matched.
Here is a very handy timeline:
Maher Arar: Timeline
Now, you will be wondering; if Arar is innocent, how did his name end up in the FBI list of suspected terrorists? Well, someone else mentioned his name -under torture. Let’s say it again: Torture. Does. Not. Work.
The only thing that I am calling into question here is whether or not he WAS tortured, not that he was detained wrongfully.
He was not detained wrongfully. He was detained illegally. Don’t be afraid to use the ‘i’ word -that’s what it is. The confession that named him was obtained under torture, i.e., illegally. His detention at JFK was illegal. His rendition to Syria was illegal.
Again, why would you doubt his account on his treatment at the hands of the Syrian police? After all, Syria is well known for their secret & arbitrary detentions, and harsh treatment of detainees.
Here is a link to Amnesty International:
January 19th, 2006 at 12:25 amAmnesty International - Syria
Scotty always has amnesia to every question asked of him! He never remembers anything; never knows any facts; never heard of the news item; never likes to comment either!
He is the perfect FOOL for defending Emperor Dubya!
January 19th, 2006 at 12:44 amDoes Scottie not read the papers either? Heckuva job, there Mr. Press Secretary.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:05 amWhat is the point of this ?
In response to overwhelming evidence of policies facilitating systematic torture the President said the US does not torture.
Your response to this is to report what the official spin spokesman says as supposedly a useful followup.
Seriously Judd WTF ? Are you expecting the guy to at some point break down and confess under far less stressful questioning than the subject matter ?
If not you and your reporting appear to be completely pointless.
Yet every single person here will approve of the next story you post from the same source that reveals, discloses and acknowledges nothing by design instead of a report from a source such as HRW, the Red Cross or FOIA disclosures.
You have basically taken over the job of Jeff Gannon. Someone to reprint official fiction rather than actual findings. And suprisingly this is apparently welcolmed by supporters of both political parties now instead of just republicans. Great stuff.
January 19th, 2006 at 3:23 amIt is good that the press finaly asking questions, but the problem is that they do not ask follow up questions.
4 years of disaster should have given us an idea what is in front of us, if we do not act now, we end up being like the Germans in 1945 who said “we didn’t know”, but we can not say so, because WE KNOW but pretend not to know or DON’T CARE.
/M
January 19th, 2006 at 3:44 amThe only TORTURE that Scotty McClellan knows about for sure is the torture that Mr. GANNON does to Scott’s ASS!!!
January 19th, 2006 at 3:54 amWhat is the point of this ?
In response to overwhelming evidence of policies facilitating systematic torture the President said the US does not torture.
Comment by Tank #109
Tanked,
“The president said it, I believe it and that settles it!”
You need to find a new god fella…
This one’s falling apart…
January 19th, 2006 at 8:51 amand Scott McClellan as Sgt. Schultz:
“Iiii know NOTHING!”
January 19th, 2006 at 8:53 am#14 Super edo nailed it. So Mr. McClellan just bitch slapped the blogs. But isn’t that the sweet Irony of it all. This BLOG, brought his convenient memory loss to complete refresh, with Facts. This is future folks I would start watching for a regulation train to be heading this way soon. If they can’t control something , they destroy it, and if they can’t destroy it , they’ll try to regulate it to death. Here is a link to the beginning of their intimidation, note always another door in to get to what they want. Enjoy and Thanks again for this site, you guys are my Heros. HT to Drudge for the link.
January 19th, 2006 at 9:03 amhttp://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/13657303.htm
Tank what do you want from your White House Press briefings? They’d like to comment once but the last answer opened Pandoras’ box, so let’s try a different policy that is more convenient and not as messy. That’s what it seems to me their doing. After all Press meetings are simply words. What criticisms, other than content and the mechanics of the delivery of the content is left. So is this thread not a legtimate criticism? Jeff Gannon ? Are you an 8th grader? How do you possibly get to that point?
January 19th, 2006 at 9:21 amTo get caught up with real amaturish blogging you might want to go read some of the comments over at Music store at Apple for Ashlee Simpsons new album. That’s what reminded me of your Jeff Ganon comment light weight, irrelavent and sophmoric.
A new crop of trolls. Sweet. I think we should all apply for that job with the Republican National Committee, The White House, and maybe even the DOD (if you can pass their rigorous psychological exam & drug screening).
If the trolls here are any indication of the level of their psych exam & drug screening, even I would pass that screening.
January 19th, 2006 at 10:08 amThere you go again, Gregor (#106), citing facts when everyone knows . . . look, Clinton got a BJ!
January 19th, 2006 at 10:42 amThe US kidnapped then sent a Canadian citizen to another country ( Syria ) it knows uses torture.
It doesn’t matter whether that man was guilty or not, ( turns out he was innocent).
Innocent or guilty…. only barbaric and terrorist regimes kidnap and torture.
Just a thought, exactly how do you think that went down with your northern nieghbours?
DaveGood
January 19th, 2006 at 12:50 pmDoes Syria use torture? It is a Baath party dictatorship, little better than Sadam’s regime in Iraq. I was in Damascus in the 1980s, and it was like something out of 1984, with pictures of “our leader forever” posted on every wall. People were shot simply for getting too close to some Baath party bigwig’s palace. I doubt things have improved much since then. Arar was not only tortured, he was imprisoned for a year before the Syrians decided to release him. He was just changing flights in New York while returning home from a vacation. Had the authorities done their jobs properly, instead of flying off the handle, this whole disgusting mess could have been avoided. By the way, Arar is sueing Uncle Sam.
January 19th, 2006 at 3:11 pmActually I think the tail wagging the dog has confused you. Look Scott McClellan is the man George W Bush picked out at the last Christmas party for special mention for saying, nothing. In abundance. If the craven press actually ask a Question, that is worth noting but waiting for Scottty to say anything of substance is an exercise in futility.
January 19th, 2006 at 6:55 pmBlogs are having the primary effect of ego reinforcement, preaching to the choir and contributing to obesity in Amerika.
Get out the word and THEN GET UP OFF THE COUCH! I must see 300 blogs a week, read 50 or so of them and estimate there must be 25 million people out here participating at some level or another.
If just 10-15% of us show up IN PERSON in DC or our respective state capital “Capitols”, we’ll get a lot more done to move this country forward.
Take Osama bin Laden at his word; demonstrate IN PERSON to support and endorse his offer of a truce, force this administration to declare victory and COME HOME! Imagine what this country could’ve done with 300 billion additional dollars - the Gulf Coast, American infrastrucure, health care subsidies, so many projects, so little cash!
There aren’t any “real” democracies in the Middle East. Let them sort it out and remove the excuse of continued insurgent activity-American occupation.
Get up, get out, get serious! The whole world IS watching!
Louisiana Annie
January 19th, 2006 at 7:26 pmI would like to leave this group with 2 comments. Made by leading American Ciizens.The 1st is from Ben Franklin who said “Those who would Barter a measure of freedom for a measure of security deserves niether”. & the 2nd is from Thomas Jefferson who said “the cost of freedom is perpetual vigilance” he knew that our liberties were vulnerable to those who would seize them from inside the borders or out. this is the place where those who are true to American values should stay the course.
January 19th, 2006 at 8:24 pmTetra King #81: thanks for not answering my questions by implying that I was just going to slander you, and I would be gushing and all that, and asking a question instead.
To be gracious and answer your question about Iran (and other “terrorist” countries): stop giving them reasons to feel the need to protect themselves in extreme and escalating measures. Diplomacy, UN intervention, sanctions, etc., the kind that was WORKING in our approach to Iraq before we decided to try and prove daddy wrong. Your approach is akin to the Mideast solution - kill ‘em all and let God sort ‘em later, a strictly reactive response. How’s that working for ya ?
So when YOU are arrested for being a terrorist, would you still condone torture ? I think you might find, sitting in some Siberian gulag that:
January 20th, 2006 at 9:52 am1. Torture does not work
2. Violates international agreements like, well, the Geneva Convention
3. Makes our own service people equal targets
4. Evaporates what is left of our international support
5. Causes false confessions which result in trickle-down false leads and actions
Again, how do you know who are the terrorists, if you don’t try to find out anything else that some sort of due process would reveal ?
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