FLASHBACK: Bush not concerned about Bin Laden.
By on Jan 19th, 2006 at 11:16 am
FLASHBACK: Bush not concerned about Bin Laden.
Bush: “So I don’t know where he is. You know, I just don’t spend that much time on him. … And, again, I don’t know where he is. I — I’ll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him.†[3/13/02]
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Hey, bubbleboy, Osama on line one.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:18 amHe’s not concerned because they both share the same contempt for America, American values (the real kind) and what this country truly stands for. What we need to ask ourselves is not so much why the terrorist messiah hates us, but why the president hates America so much and what can we do about it. Repent!
January 19th, 2006 at 11:22 amSo much for hunting down the terrorists.
I don’t know where Bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02
And remember Cheney?
We’ve got a pretty good idea of the general area I don’t have the street address.
- Dick Cheney 5/23/05
January 19th, 2006 at 11:23 amJust read portions of Bin Laden’s alleged video on both CNN and BBC and I literally laughed out loud.
So are we to believe now that Bin Laden is gathering polling data from AP/IPSOS and Gallup from his remote Pakistani cave on how Bush’s war in Iraq is playing? You cannot make this shi* up!
CIA black/psy ops handiwork, no doubt about it.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:24 amThat should have been alleged transcript.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:24 amSo, trolls, you’ve got to pick one. Does it matter when we kill the #2 Al Qaeda guy every other guy, since the administration touts these kills whether they’re confirmed or not? Or does catching the #1 guy matter?
You can’t answer “yes” to both questions if you’re George Bush or a crazy Bushie. So pick one.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:27 amJay, I’m not as skeptical. Not that I would be all that surprised to learn it is a fake, but I think Bin Laden is one media savvy bastard. He knows how to play Bush like a fiddle. Watch the wingnuts go crazy on this one.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:27 amHeh. Bin Laden always manages to show up when the preznit’s poll ratings are down. Ain’t it uncanny?
January 19th, 2006 at 11:27 amSince the bin Laden and Bush families were in business together in the Carlyle Group, is it any surprise that the Boy King would let the most famous bin Laden son get away?
Protecting Americans, my a**!!! Heck of’a job, Bushy.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:31 amMLDB,
Did you read it? Aside from the fact that I think Bin Laden is a tool that the CIA uses whenever this administration needs a little fear to keep the masses in line, it just doesn’t jibe with the nature of his previous statements that had a more long-range, historic perspective. Suddenly in his first public statement in over a year he’s focusing on polls? Come on! Total bullshit. I’m sure it couldn’t be proven, I mean we are talking about the CIA here, but this is way too obvious. I’m not saying a terrorist attack isn’t in our immediate future, I just don’t know who’s planning it.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:35 ambin laden gave bush the election after he came out with that video. he’s smart, media savvy and knows how to get a reaction from us. can’t wait to hear from the white house
January 19th, 2006 at 11:36 amWho do you hate more – Osama or Bush? The sheer fact that I have to ask that question shows how low the left has sunk… My guess is you will find some way to compare the two, as if they’re comparable.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:37 am#8,
January 19th, 2006 at 11:37 amCan’t be coincidence.
Next they’ll be telling us that their illegal wiretapping has foiled Osama’s latest attempt(s).
Jay – interesting, I pretty much bought the whole Osama thing when I saw the South Tower disinegrate. Let me guess – you think 9/11 was an inside job!
The left continues to amaze. Hopefully, the Democrats put you in the corner before the election. They want to win so they can’t show how fringe their base has become.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:39 am#12 well they both use aircraft to terrorize and kill innocent people….
January 19th, 2006 at 11:39 amJay, I don’t necessarily disagree with you. (and I haven’t read it yet) I just think OBL needs Bush as much as Bush needs OBL…and he knows every button to push.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:40 amOBL’s medical benifits are better than mine.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:43 amInnocent,
I don’t think 9/11 was an inside job, I’m sure of it. I don’t think the last two elections were stolen, I know they were. I don’t think the war is about oil and geopolitical strategy, I know it is. I don’t think the rightwing and defenders of Bush are the reason democracy is dead, I know they are.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it jackass.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:44 amSymbiotic relationship
January 19th, 2006 at 11:44 amWe don’t hate Bush, we hate incompetence, arrogance, greed, deception, torture, imperialism, religious fundamentalism, treason, and hypocrisy.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:45 am18 and 20 pretty well sums it up!
January 19th, 2006 at 11:46 am#12 Which one did more damage to our country?
January 19th, 2006 at 11:48 amAfter I posted my last message re: bin Laden always managing to show up when Bush’s poll numbers are sagging, I thought of something else–aren’t we in the midst of a run up to the invasion of another country over there in the “middle east”? Jeez, this bin Laden fella really has an impeccable sense of timing, don’t he?
January 19th, 2006 at 11:48 am“Look! There goes Elvis!”
Just when you think the Administration is too chastened and wised-up to pull this sort of booga-booga bullshit again, they go and do it.
“Osama” isn’t just a tool of the Administration. He’s a dead tool nailed to a couple of uprights…and he’s REALLY starting to smell.
And, yes, as a matter of fact…I DO hate George Bush more than I hate Osama. Dubya has at least 30 9/11s under his belt at this point…and Osama still only has the one.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:49 amWho’s responsible for the death of more Americans, Bush or Bin Laden? Shrubby wins that one going away.
I can live with enemies, but I hate footing the bill, it seems to…counterproductive.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:50 am#20 – We hate the things that Pres. Bush stands for: power over the weak, greed over the disenfranchised, nation building where there’s oil but nothing where there are nuclear weapons that can reach American soil, corruption and brines in order to get your pet legislation passed, and ZERO accountability for his actions when he claims to be the party of “personal responsibilityâ€.
It’s too bad and very sad that the right has sold their souls in order to lie, steal, and cheat their way into power, and then falsely claim moral superiority. It’s way too easy to complain about the mote in someone else’s eye when your blinded by the log in your own eye.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:52 amHe, not only Bush and Rove know how to do PR stunts. The moment is incredible for Bin Laden and their supporters: Iraq is a shiite country, Afghanistan is (again) a taliban/heroin stronghold, Bush is mired with mounting problems and setbacks, the failed attack on Pakistan has turned Pakistan population towards antiamericanism even more.
Now Bin Laden can show himself to the world as a strong armed but compassive leader for Islam… If the USA continues the war against Irak and Afghanistan insurgents, only will appear as a warmonger country, and if the USA agrees on peace, Bin Laden would gain a great standing as islamic statesman…
January 19th, 2006 at 11:53 am“You can run, but you can’t hide”
January 19th, 2006 at 11:53 am#23, last year was a year off – no US elections and no new invasions. Well done OBL, take a vacation… but be back bright and early for Iran and the 2006 mid terms, OK?
January 19th, 2006 at 11:54 amJay – at least you are honest. AND thank you – your hatred for your country and your President is good for at least another decade of GOP control. Every election, we just point to people like as a reason why Democrats should NEVER be trusted with power again. You make my job easy.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:57 am…Osama or Bush?… My guess is you will find some way to compare the two, as if they’re comparable.
Let’s see:
Messianic complex- check
Possible megalomaniacal complex- check
Total disregard for innocent civilians- check
Filthy rich- check
Large group of sycophantic followers who share same disregard for human life- check
Rigid ideologue- check
Manipulates, and distorts religion for political gain- check
Yeah, as if…
January 19th, 2006 at 11:59 am# 26–welcome to Pharisee Nation…
“…We have become a culture of Pharisees. Instead of practicing an authentic spirituality of compassion, nonviolence, love and peace, we as a collective people have become self-righteous, arrogant, powerful, murderous hypocrites who dominate and kill others in the name of God. The Pharisees supported the brutal Roman rulers and soldiers, and lived off the comforts of the empire by running an elaborate banking system which charged an exorbitant fee for ordinary people just to worship God in the Temple. Since they taught that God was present only in the Temple, they were able to control the entire population. If anyone opposed their power or violated their law, the Pharisees could kill them on the spot, even in the holy sanctuary.
Most North American Christians are now becoming more and more like these hypocritical Pharisees. We side with the rulers, the bankers, and the corporate millionaires and billionaires. We run the Pentagon, bless the bombing raids, support executions, make nuclear weapons and seek global domination for America as if that was what the nonviolent Jesus wants. And we dismiss anyone who disagrees with us.
We have become a mean, vicious people, what the bible calls “stiff-necked people.†And we do it all with the mistaken belief that we have the blessing of God…”
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0215-21.htm
January 19th, 2006 at 11:59 amAnother Bush League effort to cast a wide net and shed the light of guilt on as many people as possible.
Here is the money quote:
“The Bush administration on Wednesday asked a federal judge to order Google to turn over a broad range of material from its closely guarded databases.”
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/13657303.htm
The Bush Administration is not only putting a stake through the heart of democracy, they are also cutting the head off of the Statue of Liberty and placing garlic in her mouth and burying the body in an undisclosed location.
-GSD
January 19th, 2006 at 11:59 amIf you can point to one thing that I’ve written on this blog over the last 18 months that indicates in any way that I don’t love my country with a passion, then I don’t have a leg to stand on. Problem for you is, I do, and you can’t.
You are living in a world of delusion and denial and you have been brainwashed. I can’t change that, but your silly, misinformed statements have no bearing whatsoever on the truth or on my opinion. I don’t suffer fools.
January 19th, 2006 at 12:02 pm#30 – Yeah because the Republicans have done such a wonderful job. Let’s try to address some of those great things the GOP has done.
- Lied the country into a war
- Prevents free speach and discent from anyone
- Trashes our Constitutional rights, just because they can
- Fails to uphold the Oaths that they took to support and defend the Constitution, not America. I was in the military and the oath I took is similar, if not the same, and no where does the oath state “to protect America”.
- Fails to impliment proper oversight in all aspects of government, and refuses in many cases to have oversight
- Spies on Americans illegally, and balatantly defies the laws and disrespects the Constitution by saying “it’s just a goddamn piece of paper”
I really could go on, but I think this should be more than enough for starters.
January 19th, 2006 at 12:02 pm#12…. it’s interesting how the bush lovers always attempt to use invalid logic to gain support for bush. Using a forced choice (bush or OBL) is an old tatic which is extremely weak in proving any point. The question should be, “Do you feel bush’s actions against OBL are effective?” Not, the old “You’re with us or against us” failed logic. The truth is that this mis-administration is not able to have their actions debated in an open forum, thus they resort to forced choices on evaluating their decisions and actions. Anyone who buys into their twisted logic is simply being manlipulated. Wise up, the reality is that GWB has the world’s strongest and most expensive military force to utilize. OBL has???? Do you honestly think OBL is going to blow up your house? Figure it out and start to question an administration which has and continues to lie to Americans.
January 19th, 2006 at 12:04 pmJay – you have tried to pin 9/11 on an American President. That is probably the single most hateful thing you could say about our country. That would also imply that Clinton was in on it too. You don’t love your country and you don’t love democracy. You choose to live in some Oliver Stone fanasty world. That’s fine – we will strangle you with your own hatred come election time. Then, you cry Diebold. NO ONE is listening because you are not worthy of serious discussion. You are fringe, far-left radical who chooses to believe fact over fiction.
January 19th, 2006 at 12:06 pmStand by for the alert code to move up to orange… or is it Puce… I forget.
January 19th, 2006 at 12:08 pmI.L. — You seem to be listening and engaging in discussion. It gets you excited, doesn’t it?
January 19th, 2006 at 12:09 pm#38…I wonder if they could convince Capt. Picard or Commander Riker from Star Trek to record a “Red Alert” to be broadcast nationwide?
January 19th, 2006 at 12:11 pmInnocent,
Wrong. I don’t think Bush had anything to do with 9/11, he can’t even go to the john without a written ok from one of his cabinet members. They wouldn’t trust him with something that altered the course of history.
You don’t understand democracy and your not smart enough to know the difference between fact and fiction. Now why don’t you go back to your bubble where it’s nice and safe so the evil terrorists don’t scare the piss out of you.
January 19th, 2006 at 12:11 pm#37 I listen to Jay, I don’t always agree with 100% of what he says, but he is very credible, rarely uses ad hominem attacks and presents reasonable arguments for discussion. Carry on Jay, don’t mind the raving in the background..
January 19th, 2006 at 12:12 pmEven if the Bush adminstration wasn’t “behind” 9/11, they sure as heck did ignore a LOT of intelligence just before that horrific event occurred. What was that Presidential Daily Briefing from August 6, 2001 called? Oh yeah, that’s right: “bin Ladin Determined to Strike in US”.
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/80601pdb.html
I guess it was more important for the “president” to be clearing brush on his fake ranch during the days leading up to 9/11.
January 19th, 2006 at 12:13 pmSo the biggest threat to America right now is the gay agenda? That doesn’t seem that dangerous.
Homosexuals never flew planes into the Twin Towers.
January 19th, 2006 at 12:13 pmDoh! Terry….does my last post qualify as an ad hominem attack? I hope not, hate to contradict you with a simultaneous post :)
January 19th, 2006 at 12:15 pm#45 rarely – maybe that’s your ad hominem for today, Jay. Now slap the troll about with logic and argument….
January 19th, 2006 at 12:17 pmHaha, if logic worked with these people, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
I just want my country back.
Thanks Terry.
January 19th, 2006 at 12:20 pm#37 You are fringe, far-left radical who chooses to believe fact over fiction.
Sorry, I’m a foreigner and maybe don’t understand english language too well, but upholding fact over fiction isn’t the same doing the correct thing?
And, btw, calling anyone in this blog far-left is quite strange for me to see, because I think, based in my observation of polithics around the globe, that Republican philosphy is far-right and Democrat is center-righ or, in some cases, center-left. There are a lot more gradations of left before reaching far-left. The USA far left was crushed in the ‘30, when the GOP sistematically killed and prosecuted USA communists. By the fifties, when the witch hunt of communists exploded under the black hand of McCarthy, the “communists” prosecuted (and never rightfully indicted) where really center-left and european migrants.
But maybe it’s relative distance. Maybe you’re so far right that everybody looks far left for you, including Hitler and Mussolinni.
Just as a side note…
January 19th, 2006 at 12:20 pm#48 That is why you call yourself “Evil Spaniard”…You and your international perspective. How dare you invade an American internet site!
(/snark)
January 19th, 2006 at 12:23 pm#49 Maybe because is in the Internet, and not in the USAnet?
January 19th, 2006 at 12:26 pmI’ve often wondered how many grade schools junior has visited to read to the students, before and after 9-11.
January 19th, 2006 at 12:27 pm#48, yes you are right on, ES. The centre of the political spectrum in the US is to the right of most other countries’ political right wing… Where I come from I am a political centre-rightist, but in the US, and on this blog I am a raving commy in a Che Guevara t-shirt….Notice how capitalism and democracy seem to be synonimous in this country whereas elsewhere around the world democracy came about as a reaction to unbridled capitalism. Strange how many Americans really don’t understand what the Boston Tea Party was really about….
January 19th, 2006 at 12:29 pm#48 – What are you doing!?! You’re ruining the GOP’s 30-year old storyline!!! Look, let me lay out how things work here in Amurika. People who want to stone gays, deregulate business completely, nuke foreign countries, tax only the poor, and put political opponents to death are “mainstream,” or, in your crazy European language, “centrists.” People who want social justice, peace, equal rights, and civil liberties are “hippy fringe radical leftist commie pinko treasonous traitor terrorist-loving liberals who hate America.” Do you understand now?
January 19th, 2006 at 12:30 pm…you have tried to pin 9/11 on an American President. That is probably the single most hateful thing you could say about our country.
Saying something about Bush is not the same as saying something about this country. Bush does not equal the United States.
January 19th, 2006 at 12:31 pm…you have tried to pin 9/11 on an American President. That is probably the single most hateful thing you could say about our country.
Isn’t it the right-wing that tries to pin 9/11 and every other problem caused by BushCo on Clinton? I remember some chattering about “Able Danger” a while back…
January 19th, 2006 at 12:33 pmann – VERY WELL PUT!
January 19th, 2006 at 12:33 pm#55
Either they pin it on Clinton, or they pin it on the liberal media, or the homosexual agenda, or any one of a number of scapegoats that they find convenient.
January 19th, 2006 at 12:35 pm#37’s comment tells you all need to know about the wingnuts:
“You are [a] … radical who chooses to believe fact over fiction.”
As opposed to the mainstream Republicans that prefer fiction. Who knew believing in facts was radical?
January 19th, 2006 at 12:37 pmSoon to appear: Intelligence reports that state Osama bin Laden is in Iran.
January 19th, 2006 at 12:41 pm“[. . .] AND thank you – your hatred for your country and your President is good for at least another decade of GOP control. Every election, we just point to people like as a reason why Democrats should NEVER be trusted with power again. You make my job easy.’
Comment by Innocent Lite — January 19, 2006 @ 11:57 am
What’s your job . . .troll?
There’s that cultlike adoration again. Bush is not king, no matter how badly you want him to be. This is America, not Bushland. If republicans want to be known as the “new tories” they’re going about it the right way. Royalist.
January 19th, 2006 at 12:47 pm#60, IL’s job is to watch Fox News and listen to AM Talk radio and then regurgitate it on liberal blogs. S/he’s like a guerilla warrior, sneaking through the liberal woods, all quiet-like, until s/he STRIKES! And then it’s all over fool! It’s all over! You’re like, “Damn, what hit me!” And IL is all like, “It’s me, bitch! BAM!” And then you’re all like, “Damn, screw this liberal stuff! Free markets and social Darwinism for all!” Mission accomplished.
January 19th, 2006 at 12:53 pmlol
January 19th, 2006 at 12:56 pmGSD, The Google request is one ice cold mother isn’t?Makes me wonder what else they are fishing for. Anyway, Poland is next folks, you can bet on it.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:00 pmAs to 9/11 why was Dick Cheney “picked-up and rushed into the secure bunker in the Whitehouse” when the attack happened, but Bush was allowed to sit in public in a non-bunker-style school, unmolested by the Secret Service for alomost 10 minutes? Then he was put up in a plane despite the reports that the “plane” was a target of the attacks?
Hmmmmmmmmm.
-GSD
January 19th, 2006 at 1:04 pm#63.
Bush/Cheney/Gonzales will cast a wide net and let the people be forced to prove innoncence instead of the burden being placed on the state.
Heckuva job, Orwell.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:05 pmHow about we read the full question and answer instead of just the misleading blurb above …
Not quite as newsworthy when one reads the entire quote … what I don’t get is why try and misrepresent what he means with an out of context quote. There’s plenty to disagree with without trying to demonize the man …
January 19th, 2006 at 1:14 pm#37
The fact that Jay, along with many, many others, are questioning the actions of our government, since the actions ARE questionable, says plenty about his love of his country. I’m sure you’ve read many quotes posted here from past countrymen, including Thomas Jefferson and Teddy Roosevelt and Dwight Eisenhower, who have made statements that support what Jay and others like him are saying about our government. What do you think about them, Mr. Innocent Lite? Are they kooks? Idiots? Ignorant? Did Jefferson and Roosevelt hate America too?
No, Mr. Innocent Lite, the people in this country who hate America are people like Duke Cunningham who put their own personal interests above not only their duty to their country, but each and every person they represent, which includes you, Mr. Innocent Lite, all for the love of money and power. People like Jack Abramoff; I don’t need to tell you about him. People like Pat Robertson, who once called for the assasination of a human being. People like Dick Cheney who didn’t think twice about telling a congressman “F*** You!” in front of other members of Congress, and along with Pres. Bush during the campaign of 2000 pointed out a reporter in the crowd and agreed when Bush called him an a**hole (which a live microphone picked up); people like Timothy McVey who would blow up a federal building, along with innocent adults and children, for no good reason.
People who DO question their government, whether run by Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Libertarians, or the Green Party, are the ones who love and care about their country. They care about what happens to them, and to their fellow countrymen. They care about the lack of health care for 40 million of their fellow Americans, and wonder why the majority party in Washington doesn’t give a damn; they wonder why, in the greatest, most powerful country in the world, we cannot develop a universal health care system that would guarantee coverage for ALL Americans. Other countries can do it, why can’t we? They wonder why, in a so-called economic recovery that Bush loves to talk about, the majority party in Washington refuses to raise the minimum wage to help out the people in this country. They question why electronic voting machines repeatedly kept selecting Bush when Kerry was the intended selection. They question why, in last year’s Virginia governor’s race, that in 4 precincts in Roanoke County, Jerry Kilgore’s name was selected on the electronic machine when the voter chose Tim Kaine. They wonder with puzzlement about the explanation for these incidents as given by an election official: “Must’ve been due to the way the machines were stored.”
I’m done. For now.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:17 pmThis is a profoundly dishonest post. It is nothing more than a cut-and-paste hatchet job that ignores the context and meaning of the President’s remarks, in which he expressed primary concern for the coalition and our military, underscoring his confidence in our war strategy in Afghanistan.
In case any one cares to know the truth, instead of just listening to the fever swamp echo chamber, here’s the full excerpt, with the dishonestly editied portions above in caps and in context:
[BEGIN EXCERPT]
Q Mr. President, in your speeches now you rarely talk or mention Osama bin Laden. Why is that? Also, can you tell the American people if you have any more information, if you know if he is dead or alive? Final part — deep in your heart, don’t you truly believe that until you find out if he is dead or alive, you won’t really eliminate the threat of —
THE PRESIDENT: Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he’s alive at all. Who knows if he’s hiding in some cave or not; we haven’t heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is — really indicates to me people don’t understand the scope of the mission.
Terror is bigger than one person. And he’s just — he’s a person who’s now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed. He’s the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is — as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide — if, in fact, he’s hiding at all.
SO I DON’T KNOW WHERE HE IS. YOU KNOW, I JUST DON’T SPEND THAT MUCH TIME ON HIM, Kelly, to be honest with you. I’m more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.
And there will be other battles in Afghanistan. There’s going to be other struggles like Shahikot, and I’m just as confident about the outcome of those future battles as I was about Shahikot, where our soldiers are performing brilliantly. We’re tough, we’re strong, they’re well-equipped. We have a good strategy. We are showing the world we know how to fight a guerrilla war with conventional means.
Q But don’t you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won’t truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven’t heard much from him. And I wouldn’t necessarily say he’s at the center of any command structure. AND, AGAIN, I DON’T KNOW WHERE HE IS. I — I’LL REPEAT WHAT I SAID. I TRULY AM NOT THAT CONCERNED ABOUT. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.
But once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he became — we shoved him out more and more on the margins. He has no place to train his al Qaeda killers anymore. And if we — excuse me for a minute — and if we find a training camp, we’ll take care of it. Either we will or our friends will. That’s one of the things — part of the new phase that’s becoming apparent to the American people is that we’re working closely with other governments to deny sanctuary, or training, or a place to hide, or a place to raise money.
And we’ve got more work to do. See, that’s the thing the American people have got to understand, that we’ve only been at this six months. This is going to be a long struggle. I keep saying that; I don’t know whether you all believe me or not. But time will show you that it’s going to take a long time to achieve this objective. And I can assure you, I am not going to blink. And I’m not going to get tired. Because I know what is at stake. And history has called us to action, and I am going to seize this moment for the good of the world, for peace in the world and for freedom.
[END EXCERPT]
Note that the ellipses in the TP post at the top of this thread cover extensive comments by the President, as well as another question. This violates every principle of the use of ellipses in writing. Shame on TP for permitting such dishonesty.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:17 pm#64
January 19th, 2006 at 1:18 pmGSD is right. Its the case of the dog that never barked. The USA is under attack, yet the president sits in an unsecure classroom, then proceeds OUTDOORS to a photo-op, then gets on the plane and runs scared across the country all day.
Giacomo – do you really want anyone to begin discussing this speach? Just in the first couple of paragraphs, I found things that make me laugh and shows the lies this administration is performing to the American public.
Let me know if we should point those out for you.
Besides, we don’t have to demonize the idiot. He does that job just fine by himself.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:20 pmWell, how ’bout that?? I didn’t realize that Patriot Act II was coming up for a vote NEXT WEEK. Gee what an uncanny co-inky-dink that “bin Laden” chose to release “his” message right now–right after the domestic spying excrement has hit the fan and the Patriot Act II vote is coming up. Plus, we’ve got the runup to the Iran invasion AND the preznit’s poll ratings are in the terlit. Like I said, this bin Laden fella has impeccable timing.
Looks like Boosh has hit the trifecta–again.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:20 pmIsnt that amazing? It just is amazing how nothing happens, but when major issues are presenting themselves there are these critical accounts that occure just at the right time.
HMMMM is it possible that the WH timmed this? Is it possible that OBL is still being paid by our government and makes statements when asked to? This way the government could keep the sheeple cowering in the stalls?
Something to think about.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:26 pmGiacomo – do you really want anyone to begin discussing this speach? Just in the first couple of paragraphs, I found things that make me laugh and shows the lies this administration is performing to the American public.
Let me know if we should point those out for you.
Besides, we don’t have to demonize the idiot. He does that job just fine by himself.
If you’d like to change the subject, fine by me. As I (and BSR) stated, the “flashback” is purposefully misleading and in poor form. It makes TP look like zealots and not ones who are given to genuine and valid dissent … cheap arguments cheapen the overall position of the arguer … I’m sure you would cede this, RemoveBush. As I stated, reasonable people can disagree reasonably on Bush policy … no need to “create” new issues.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:26 pmGiaco and BSR, I concede your point that the context of the discussion is important. And the organization is never just one man, despite how you Americans love to individualize everything e.g. “Michael Jordan and 4 other no-names take on Shaq and 4 other people who don’t count for jack”.
But then why then do we have quotes like this from Chimpy?
“The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him.”
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01
“I want justice…There’s an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive,’”
- G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI
It seems to me Bush was the one who put Bin Laden on the pedestal, not Think Progress. He should never have done so, Do you think killing Bin Laden will end the ‘game’?
January 19th, 2006 at 1:30 pmInnocent,
I don’t think 9/11 was an inside job, I’m sure of it. I don’t think the last two elections were stolen, I know they were. I don’t think the war is about oil and geopolitical strategy, I know it is. I don’t think the rightwing and defenders of Bush are the reason democracy is dead, I know they are.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it jackass.
Comment by Jay — January 19, 2006 @ 11:44 am
How does the Democratic Party allow the Republican Party to steal elections? So what you are saying is the Democrats armed with overwhelming evidence of voting fraud just sat there and took it. They could not make the case that the election was a fraud? They could not make the case that would have convicted people of voter fraud? They could not make the case that Kerry had won? No, they just sat there and said “oh well we got tricked again”.
That’s your position? And let’s see you think that 9/11 was an inside job? Several individuals conspiring a hit on the US conspired by the US? Of course, you have special information but no one else does. Not even the mainstream media. There in on it, too.
Jay, I have to say it, you are without a doubt the King Nutball on this site. Jay, what other secrets do you know that only you and your friends know but no one else? Jay put down the pipe.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:30 pmGiacomo – we don’t disagree on the discussion issue, but you are arguing suttlties. It’s like arguing that a person who dies from a gunshot wound was murdered, or was it homoside? Esentially, they are the same thing.
The main point is that Bushes claims have always been that OBL is a priority, and then he does not care about him. Regardless of how you want to interpret the comment, action speaks volumes. If he truely wanted OBL, he would have done that. This was never the mission, to quote a DOD official.
So this is the point to peoples comments.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:35 pmBen,
I’m flattered that a wingnut would see me in such a light. Now go back to post #72 and read it carefully, then watch the video.
If you really want to hash out the vote stealing issue, I’d be happy to do it. There’s more evidence of foul play than I could possibly take the time to provide, but I’ll try.
Thanks again for the flattering new moniker, but I’m an American and not real keen on Kings. Would you mind using something else before Nutball? Appreciate that.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:38 pm#74 no need to “create†new issues.
Sorry, but life brings surprises. Every day “creates” new issues to be solved. If Bush himself can’t keep the pace, maybe isn’t our guilt, but his one… Too much things have exploded in the face of Bush without adequate response (911, Katrina, Dukester, Abramoff…), or plain accomplicity of he or his cabinet in the misdeeds…
January 19th, 2006 at 1:42 pmBen – if the Majority, the Republicans, hold the power to institute an investigation into the matter how are the Minority suppose to get an investigation going? If the Democrats try to propose investigations, they are stopped by the majority.
As far as you 9/11 comment. Try reading my comment and then come back and attempt, though you won’t be able to, how the events can be explained by science? If you cant prove this by science, then you have nothing. I have science behind me and I provide the calculation and the answer to show my proof. Wheres yours.
Perhaps you should do some research on the matter of the government attacking its own people to gain support for war. I would start with Northwoods first. This outlines how to attack America and what would have to be done to insight enough backing to invade Cuba.
It has already been proposed by out government officials, in writting, don’t think that it would take that much to execute it. Look at all of the gagg orders. If there was nothing to hide, and the accounts the government wants you to believe are true then why gag ANYONE who was involved on 9/11? It’s not a secret that it happened. So why gag people? The only reason people are gagged is to prevent the truth from being told.
Think about it, and I await your scientific proof to counter my proof.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:43 pmIt seems to me Bush was the one who put Bin Laden on the pedestal, not Think Progress. He should never have done so, do you think killing Bin Laden will end the ‘game’?
Fair enough … I’d agree that Bin Laden’s “diminished importance” is directly proportional to our success (or lack thereof) in apprehending him … that’s easily apparant, IMHO. A political misdirection, if you will. If we caught Bin Laden, he’d be paraded down Broadway in that Hannibal Lector outfit with the freaky mask and stick restraints … no doubt about it.
I don’t think 9/11 was an inside job, I’m sure of it. I don’t think the last two elections were stolen, I know they were. I don’t think the war is about oil and geopolitical strategy, I know it is. I don’t think the rightwing and defenders of Bush are the reason democracy is dead, I know they are.
You forgot to say … “I may not have any proof but circumstantial BS that I’ve pieced together, but that’s OK … I’m really, really sure”. Jay, your certainty sounds a tad tinfoil hat-esque to me …
The “proof” of WMDs in Iraq was 1000 times more “airtight” than any of the conspiracy theories you’ve mentioned … how’d all that “evidence” turn out (in fact, factor in that the CIA, NSA, British Intelligence (among others) all supported the WMD idea … all you have is some really well read and earnest bloggers/reporters … make any sense to you?)
January 19th, 2006 at 1:43 pmSo what is the precise percentage of Al-Qualude fighters currently in Iraq?Not foreign fighters, locals, etc. The real percentage of just Al-Qualude?
January 19th, 2006 at 1:45 pmInnocent,
I don’t think 9/11 was an inside job, I’m sure of it. I don’t think the last two elections were stolen, I know they were. I don’t think the war is about oil and geopolitical strategy, I know it is. I don’t think the rightwing and defenders of Bush are the reason democracy is dead, I know they are.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it jackass.
Comment by Jay — January 19, 2006 @ 11:44 am
Where is your proof 9/11 was an inside job? Where is your proof that any election was stolen? If the war were about oil, don’t you think we would be stealing it and have a glut on the world market. You have no proof to support any of the above comments. Ideas like that are why your party is no longer in power. Get it? These are whacked out concepts that only a sore loser would grasp onto in desperation and for a sense of comfort that they are right, the rest of the world is the problem. Wake up, stop smoking your pipe and get a dose of reality.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:45 pmBen, you have to know that most of the democrats are gutless wonders. They no longer function as any kind of opposition party. That’s why I’ve given up on them too (I’m actually a former republican but left the elephants when they got hijacked by the corporatists, neocons and religious kooks a few decades back).
Personally, I can’t fathom why the dems are such enablers for the neocons–unless they’ve been bought & sold too.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:46 pmBen,
Humor me for a moment and put the shoe on the other foot. OK, now your a Democrat. George Bush has the potential to raise ridiculous amounts of cash for his campaign, so much that his handlers need to create a system to categorize his largest donors, the “rangers” and the “pioneers”. Pioneers are the cream of the crop, those sumbitches are responsible for contributions in the 10’s of thousands of dollars. Heady, powerful stuff.
Guess who’s a pioneer? Wally O’Dell, who at the time was Diebold VP (I believe he recently stepped down due questionable business practices…but I digress). Diebold is one of the three largest voting hardware/technology firms. Another, ES&S was being run by O’Dell’s brother. No conflict there eh? You know where Diebold is headquartered? That’s right Bennyboy, Ohio.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:49 pmOkay I will honor your request.
Chief Nutball Jay,
If your contention is that wingnuts are behind these events, why has the opposition done such a poor job of bringing these facts to the American people? Are the Democrats that intellectually deficient? Are they in on it too?
Your not making any sense. Who is behind it? Why have their opponents not revealed the truth? Would not the truth damage their opponents significantly and for a long time?
If there was any substance to these kinds of accusations the Democratic Party would take advantage of that evidence. Not doing so does not make any logical sense. Maybe you know why they have chosen to remain silent. I can’t wait to hear this explanation.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:50 pm#82 “The “proof†of WMDs in Iraq was 1000 times more “airtight†than any of the conspiracy theories you’ve mentioned … how’d all that “evidence†turn out (in fact, factor in that the CIA, NSA, British Intelligence (among others) all supported the WMD idea”
Comment by Giacomo
Well thats not ENTIRELY TRUE. The CIA stated many many times that the information was WEAK AT BEST. They reported many times that there was not enough information to support that claim, and in fact the information supported the claim that Saddam had no WMD. There were family members of high positioned people in Saddams party that went over there for the CIA and asked specific questions about this. They all came back and reported the same thing. “The program was destroyed in Desert Storm and has not been in operation since.”
Try doing a little research rather than pucking up the same old stuff from the WH. It’s really amazing what the brain can do once you disconnect those wires from the WH to your brain.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:51 pm
January 19th, 2006 at 1:54 pmhttp://www.politics.co.uk/foreign-policy/purported-al-qaeda-tape-vows-more-us-attacks-$1644447.htm
Wonder why “bin Laden” didn’t provide a videotape? I haven’t seen an updated picture of his sorry ass for years now.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:57 pmBen – The problem is that if anyone provides any evidence or comment the WH does not like, they are smeared and outed. They are provided with Anthrax as a warning, that if they oppose the president that they will suffer.
You do remember the Anthrax don’t you? Do you remember who 2 letters going to Congress were addressed to? Yes thats right, Democrats. Also, if you remember… It was later reported that this particular stain of Anthrax was government grade. Also, the WH started taking Cipro right after 9/11. Why would the WH have to take Cipro? Cipro, in case you don’t know, is a counter agent to Anthrax.
So by means of FEAR people are not comming forward. However, more are starting to get more nerves and the truth is slowly comming to light.
DO SOME RESEARCH. Don’t be closed minded. Look at the scientific evidence.
January 19th, 2006 at 1:58 pmhttp://www.hehasnomandate.org/bushlies.html
January 19th, 2006 at 1:58 pmhttp://www.thousandreasons.org/get_article.php?article_id=133
January 19th, 2006 at 1:58 pmInteresting that Busheviks cry fowl when statements are reiterated ‘out of context’ but have (and continue to) utilize this tactic ad nauseum. It’s also interesting that this particular speech, Bush states that ” I’m more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied” when, in fact, had our troops been adequately supplied, the number of deaths would be far less than what they are now! So much for spending some coin on decent body armor and other protective gear!
Yep; makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside that Bush could really give a shit less about our men and women in uniform, goes after the WRONG MAN (Saddam verses Osama) and country (Iraq versus Saudi Arabia), gives tax breaks to the ultra rich, is in the financial bed with Osama’s family (who really hauled his ass out of financial ruin with Harkin?), and calls our Constitution “a goddamned piece of paper”.
I’m with Jay, I want my country back!
January 19th, 2006 at 2:00 pmMr. ReMove,
One question before I go any further. Are you saying that the Democratic Party is so weak, so inept, so cowardly, that even if armed with overwhelming evidence as it pertains to 9/11 or elections and criminal behavior by the wingnuts that they would do nothing? They have no access to the media? They have no medium to inform the public?
Is that what you are saying?
January 19th, 2006 at 2:07 pm#83 – I won’t tackle the 9-11 inside job bit, I’m not in that camp.
However:
January 19th, 2006 at 2:08 pm(1) Stealing oil – if you understood more about supply and demand, oil production and the current economic situation, you might understand why “glut on the world market” is an oversimplification to be polite. Now on to the stealing bit – $8.8billion disappeared during the first year of the occupation here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1332676/posts . Compare to oil-for-food which the US winked at – lost $10 billion over four years…
The real stealing going on in Iraq is the neo-liberal economic experiment going on Iraq – the selling of Iraqi assets off at fire-sale prices to multinationals etc etc: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm
(2) Stolen Elections – try reading some of this and see what you think: http://www.crisispapers.org/topics/election-fraud.htm As for why the Democrats or media won’t push hard on it that’s easy – the dems have no power or hadn’t you noticed that, and the media have nothing to gain from an exposure of their sloppy coverage and oversight of the government, they are a corporate special interest.
(2)
#86 Ben,
No no, the wingnuts aren’t behind the events, the wingnuts are the 30% of this countries citizens with their heads planted firmly in their own rectums. The one’s that think greed is good and consumption is king and we are the biggest, toughest motherfuc*kers on the block so that makes stealing a third world’s countries only natural resource ok so that we can maintain our “way of life” even if a few thousand American kids have to get blown to pieces in the process. You’re a wingnut.
The people behind the really sick, evil shit are people like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Perle, Wolfowitz, Libby….ahh screw it, just look at the signatures at the bottom of Rebuilding America’s Defenses here:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/defensenationalsecurity.htm
January 19th, 2006 at 2:08 pm#94 the Washington Post buried the Florida voter purge story in 2000, so-called-liberal-media? They also buried the exit poll discrepancy story in 2004. There was more coverage of the US election discrepancies in New Zealand than there was in the US!
January 19th, 2006 at 2:11 pm
January 19th, 2006 at 2:14 pmAs for the Democrats and the media. Yes, they are totally spineless and compromised and with a handful of exceptions they’re getting paid too, so it’s more beneficial to them not to make too much noise about the Bush admins corruption and evil.
The exceptions, the Democrats that won’t stand for it and have proven themselves worthy of support are easy to identify. They’re the ones that Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly and the rest of the rightwing character assassins spend the most time on. Dean, Boxer, Gore, et al. The Kerry, Biden, Clinton contingent, the so-called “prominent” Democrats are full of it and don’t really pose a threat to GOP corruption, but the right has to beat on them because they’re supposed to be viable opposition in 08′. Believe me, I’m just as disgusted with the Dems for their inaction as I am the GOP for their action.
January 19th, 2006 at 2:16 pm#97
January 19th, 2006 at 2:17 pmExit polls. Exit polls. Thats all I ever hear from you people like they are the bible. Did you ever stop to consider just for a second that maybe, just maybe the exit polls were biased toward Kerry? If this story had the slightest bit of truth, don’t think that for a minute the NYT or WP wouldn’t be all over it. Gees, they just printed stories about where we are holding captured terrorist and how we are thwarting plots for another attack all in an effort to hurt Bush. You really are useless.
So I guess you didn’t read any of the links I left you Randy. No surprise there. Your Kerry idea holds no water if you choose to read some of the analysis I presented. Why is it then that US foreign policy towards Ukraine not 2 months after the 2004 election was entirely dictated by exit poll discrepancies? Maybe Yuvchenko had the exit polls skewed towards him? Or are you going to tell me you voted for Bush and then lied to the exit pollster at your polling station so you could appear to be cleverer than you are on a blog?
January 19th, 2006 at 2:24 pmRandy – Perhaps you should do some more research. The exit polls are usually only off by a small margin, say 5%. This holds true for every place that did not have a DIBOLD machine. However, for ALL of the places that a DIBOLD machine was at, the margin was off by (I forget the exact figure but it was large).
Now you are going to tell me that exit polls are accurate for places that don’t have machines but they are not for those places with machines is more than a coincidence?
The mathamatical probablility of the polls being that far off, and this happening is a billion to one. Especially when they are only off on in the places that have the DIBOLD machines.
January 19th, 2006 at 2:24 pmThe exit polls have been a mathematical/statisitcal sure thing in every election in which they’ve been used, throughout the world and since they’ve been relied upon to predict electoral outcomes. To pretend that they’re insignificant when it benefits your side is, well, exactly what I’d expect. The facts are that the chances that the exit polling results would have been as inaccurate as they proved to be is a mathematical impossibility and it’s backed up by scientific analysis, which beats your rhetorical nonsense 10 times out of 10.
The last two elections were fraudulent.
American media refuses to touch this issue because a. it’s too late now and b. it benefits the 6 megamedia conglomerates to keep up the lie.
Poke around and you’ll find international media publishing the story with numbers and detail that cannot be ignored:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0411/S00227.htm
January 19th, 2006 at 2:26 pmRandy – really, you don’t present a good argument. Why would people do one thing and say another right outside the voting precinct? The pollsters didn’t have guns and tell them what to say; logic and human nature have statistically shown that people are, for the most part, honest about their activities. Uh oh; hold it. We’re talking about Republicans now, the ones that ‘voted for Bush but say they voted for Kerry’? Never mind.
January 19th, 2006 at 2:30 pmIt’s also interesting that this particular speech, Bush states that †I’m more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied†when, in fact, had our troops been adequately supplied, the number of deaths would be far less than what they are now!
Are you inferring the body armor debate? If so then, yeah … I’m sure if we encased the soldiers in solid steel boxes with just holes for their feet, there’d be fewer deaths as well. Ask a soldier what they think about wearing more armor … they can’t move well in it …
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060108/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/iraq_body_armor
January 19th, 2006 at 2:31 pmThis article from the Crisis Papers explains in great detail what’s happening with the Dems and their refusal to fight on the vote fraud front. It’s only two days old but a very good read. It’s a little long so the wingers probably won’t make it through the entire thing, but it’s worth it.
January 19th, 2006 at 2:31 pmWhoops, forgot the link:
http://www.crisispapers.org/essays6p/gulliberal.htm
January 19th, 2006 at 2:32 pm“Exit polls. Exit polls. Thats all I ever hear from you people like they are the bible. Did you ever stop to consider just for a second that maybe, just maybe the exit polls were biased toward Kerry? Randy”
Exit polls are scientific. Your comment is like saying science is biased against Christianity. It’s just nonsense fear and hate that stems from someone not know how math or science works. I understand how fear can result if you don’t feel educated or competent enough to understand a situation this real world Randy. And I forgive you for your ignorance.
“If this story had the slightest bit of truth, don’t think that for a minute the NYT or WP wouldn’t be all over it. Randy”
Any organization that would hire Judith Miller clearly is not a liberal organization. What you write is nonsense. The media is almost 100% controlled by rightwing mouthpieces who refuse to cover stories that harm the republicans until they’re forced to by the blogs or alternative media. Even Jeb Bush last month publically admitted he was ‘troubled’ by Diebold. I’m sure you think he’s liberal too? I’m sorry you’re too afraid to admit that republican leaders are liars and thieves for the most part, but the truth often hurts. That’s why you learn to accept it when you become an adult, even when painful. Someday I’m sure you’ll understand – when you’re older and wiser.
January 19th, 2006 at 2:32 pm(2) Stolen Elections – try reading some of this and see what you think: http://www.crisispapers.org/topics/election-fraud.htm As for why the Democrats or media won’t push hard on it that’s easy – the dems have no power or hadn’t you noticed that, and the media have nothing to gain from an exposure of their sloppy coverage and oversight of the government, they are a corporate special interest.
(2)
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — January 19, 2006 @ 2:08 pm
Did Democrats have power when Clinton was president? If Kerry had won would the Democrats have power? So since they had no power they could not challenge the cheating that denied them regaining the power they had before the cheating?
Jay, you have a challenger.
January 19th, 2006 at 2:34 pmGiacomo,
January 19th, 2006 at 2:34 pmNot jus body armour but armoured Humveed. It is NOT cutting their benefits. It is providing enough troops to get the job done. It is not abusing them by forcing them to do up to 3 tours of duty.
Why do you boot lickers not see that Bin Laden should have been taken out – way before we set our eyes on the oil and geopolitical bounty of Iraq.
you are a tool you fool
G. “I’m sure if we encased the soldiers in solid steel boxes with just holes for their feet, there’d be fewer deaths as well.”
Why don’t we do that with Bush?
January 19th, 2006 at 2:36 pmGiacomo,
There’s a lot of truth in what you say, and it also follows forth into the civil liberties arguments. You could violate everyone’s civil liberties and probably stamp out much of crime, but isn’t the price too high, and how do people feel about this. Many soldiers prefer to wear body armor, and some buy it themselves when the government won’t spend the money. Lots of people don’t like wearing seat belts either and complain about it, but it doesn’t change the fact that providing a car without seatbelts is irresponsible. Just like putting a soldier in a war zone without as much protection as is reasonable is irresponsible.
I can see how you could get confused about the issue though, being that it’s not your life on the line.
January 19th, 2006 at 2:37 pmDid you ever stop to consider just for a second that maybe, just maybe the exit polls were biased toward Kerry?
I don’t know, people walking out of the polls are asked who they voted for….how is that a liberal bias?
January 19th, 2006 at 2:38 pm“Did Democrats have power when Clinton was president? If Kerry had won would the Democrats have power? So since they had no power they could not challenge the cheating that denied them regaining the power they had before the cheating?
Jay, you have a challenger. Ben”
Ben your hatred and fear has made you incapable of forming a complete sentence. If you’d like to retype this into a standard english posting, I’d be happy to respond to you there pumpkin.
January 19th, 2006 at 2:38 pm“Who do you hate more – Osama or Bush? The sheer fact that I have to ask that question shows how low the left has sunk”
Actually, it shows your perspective of “how low the left has sunk”, it’s no indicator of any fact about “the left”. Especially since you’re completely assuming what people’s answers are going to be. Does it make life easier for you to assume characteristics of one person are going to apply to a huge group like “the left”? Do you think it’s fair for people to assume things about the entirety of “the right” by the actions of Fred Phelps?
“Let me guess – you think 9/11 was an inside job!
The left continues to amaze.”
Again, you’re posing a question, assuming the answer and making a judgement from there. This says nothing about the left and only speaks of your short sided prejudice of the left.
January 19th, 2006 at 2:39 pmBen & Randy:
Here’s a question for the opposing team…
I recall reading that in the aftermath of the collapses, all of the steel used to construct the twin WTC towers was trucked off and sold to recyclers (overseas, I believe) and was never analyzed to try and find out clues as to why the collapses happened.
Why?
We have experts telling us that the collapes were no surprise, and we have experts telling us they shouldn’t have collapsed. Given the level of disagreement, why wouldn’t the government want to know exactly what caused it, so that everything possible can be done to prevent another event like this in the future?
January 19th, 2006 at 2:41 pmWhile it’s true that the Dems are relatively powerless to push for independent investigations, I’m not sure they’d do it even if they could. They’re players in this dangerous game after all.
Unfortunately, all of us (yes Ben, you too) are losing our democracy, not just left or right, D or R. Some of us have been convinced that it’s ok because they put their party before their country.
Why?
January 19th, 2006 at 2:43 pmRP, not my fault that you cannot read. The last sentence was meant to point out the stupidity behind the logic that the powerless would not challenge cheating in a contest for power. You’re not very bright,uh, pumpkin.
Jay, I’ll take a look that link.
January 19th, 2006 at 2:44 pmJay – I ask that same question every day. I hate this 2 party system. It does nothing but tear this country apart.
If we can pull out of this tail spin to dictatorship, then perhaps down the line this system can be retooled?
January 19th, 2006 at 2:46 pm“Did Democrats have power when Clinton was president? If Kerry had won would the Democrats have power? So since they had no power they could not challenge the cheating that denied them regaining the power they had before the cheating?”
Ben
And yet you skipped RIGHT OVER the republican controlled supreme court selection of Bush in making your specious argument. Typical.
January 19th, 2006 at 2:48 pmActually, Clinton lost the congress in 1994, and spent the next 6 years fighting off a party that stopped at nothing to derail him and his agenda. Last time I looked, exit poll discrepancies in US elections only occur after the entry of George W Bush into national politics. Odd coincidence? Not if you read the analysis. But you won’t will you Ben?
Its very simple why this is not a big story: since the myth of American exceptionalism cannot allow for even the concept that US elections and therefore its pretence to be a democracy are endemically flawed, noone in the power holding elite in this country have any stake in getting to the bottom of the fraud. Bread and circuses that’s all it is. “Are you ready for some football?” – George W. Bush – national address on opening NFL season 2003
January 19th, 2006 at 2:52 pmTo dig up an analogy that I used on this site a long time ago, regarding the difference between Republicans and Democrats:
If you’re a store owner and a man with a gun (Ron) runs in and steals all the cash in your register and as he bolts for the exit another man (Don) smiles and holds the door open for him, which man would you rather have minding the store when you go on vacation?
Obviously, neither choice is good…but I’m going with Don.
January 19th, 2006 at 2:55 pm#118 – your logic is too simple Ben. John Conyers attempted to challenge the cheating. But it takes more than one congressman (actually about 80 or so democracts signed his letter) in a house controlled by the side that benefitted from the cheating. So next you have to go to the media and the public. Now the public is somewhere around 35% that 2004 was stolen and maybe nearer 45% that 200 was stolen. The media? Next to nothing on this appalling lack of faith in US democracy. Why? Because there is nothing the media corporations gain by a deep analysis of how money has corrupted every estate in US politics – after all the media is in the trough too. So Ben, put your considerable talent in writing sentences to work more productively. Clever sentences are useless without clear logic to back them up.
January 19th, 2006 at 2:59 pmAnd then it was back to missing white women, desperate housewives, reality TV and crime shows…. bread and circuses.
January 19th, 2006 at 3:01 pmI’m done on this thread, we’re off topic anyway.
January 19th, 2006 at 3:02 pmWC,
Did you ever watch PBS Frontline on 9/11? They said that experts were saying that due to poor engineering that the heat of the steel had caused it to melt and ultimately collapse. They said that could have been avoided by the use of proper fire resistant partitions which would have contained the heat and limited the structural damage. It seemed to follow some logic but I am not an engineer and would not know. You would think they would present good information.
That is what I recall. The film may be still available. I don’t know.
January 19th, 2006 at 3:11 pmRandy – Perhaps you should do some more research. The exit polls are usually only off by a small margin, say 5%. This holds true for every place that did not have a DIBOLD machine. However, for ALL of the places that a DIBOLD machine was at, the margin was off by (I forget the exact figure but it was large).
I’ve done as much reading about this Diebold thing as I can stomach and all I can come up with is that a Diebold machine “can be hacked” (at least the ones used last election could be) … that, coupled with the aforementioned exit polls, has led some to believe that the Diebold machines “were hacked” … suspicious, maybe … proof, apparantly not. I agree that Democrat leadership is amazingly silent on this issue given the strength of opinion/conviction often expressed here on the subject.
For those that know, how much of the vote is attributed to Diebold … how much difference is purported to be made. 1,000s of votes, 100,000s of votes … what? Obviously, many think that it was enough to change the election results … in Ohio, Bush won by 130,000 or so votes … a “Diebold” swing of 65,000 would be needed. Florida went Bush by 380,000 … a swing of 190K. That’s a lot of votes … and would require a lot of coordination amongst election officials … I haven’t seen anything to suggest that a few rogues could pull this off (especially given the scale).
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/11/11/MNG2P9PJ5M1.DTL
It seems to me that Democrats should spend their time considering why the majority of Americans (No one could possibly say that Diebold is responsible for 3 million or so extra votes for Bush) went toward Bush … to not do so would likely lead to the same result in 2008.
January 19th, 2006 at 3:16 pmBen/Randy,
One Democrat that tried to get answers regarding voting irregularities is Rep. John Conyers. However, apparently the officials of the great state of Ohio refused to cooperate. I went to Rep. Conyers’ Web site and found this excerpt in a letter he sent to Ohio Attorney General Jim Petro, who levied sanctions against attorneys who brought a legal challenge to the 2004 Presidential election in Ohio:
It is also noteworthy that the Ohio Secretary of State intentionally delayed certifying the vote, thereby
insuring that the recount could not be completed by the date the electoral college met on December 13. The Ohio
Secretary State also refused to respond to numerous questions regarding the irregularities submitted to him by
several members of the House Judiciary Committee, has refused to respond to a single concern set forth in the
Judiciary Report, and also sought a protective order to avoid any discovery related to the legal challenges. In short, Ohio election officials have compounded public doubt concerning the election by refusing to provide any sort of
accountability and acting in almost every respect as if they have “something to hide.â€
Oh, and this was issued in one of several press releases Rep. Conyers has made regarding this issue. And, Rep. Conyers called a House Judiciary Committee hearing in Dec. 2004 regarding voting issues, which Republican members of the committee boycotted.
January 19th, 2006 at 3:19 pm“you make my job easy.”
Now that you’ve acknowledged your profession, can we ask what your paid-for-posting rate is?
You and the rest of the trolls are just a cheaper version of Rush and Sean…they do it for the millions, you do tricks for crack.
January 19th, 2006 at 3:20 pmGiacomo – I do agree with you, but we may never know the truth. It’s just questions and concerns from both sides.
January 19th, 2006 at 3:21 pmBen,
If that were true the collapse would have been ‘irregular’. There’s a reason they demolish buildings, because when they fall by their own means, the always fall irregularly because of differences in mass, material and other factors that cause one side to be slightly heavier than another and ‘topple’.
And since the fuel would have been distributed unevenly throughout the floor of the building, the side that was struck and contained the most fuel should have weakened first. Plus the impact itself should have weakened the structure in an irregular manner. I’ve read lots of reviews by lots of engineers who say the compressed failure of the structure was not what should have happened based on the impact and the fuel. And when the top did collapse, it doesn’t explain the continued collapse in an even manner for the rest of the floors.
The numbers don’t add up.
January 19th, 2006 at 3:21 pmGiacomo,
I can understand your scepticism, and frankly it’s a good thing, not a bad thing. But there were lots of reports of the Diebold machines improperly assigning votes to Bush, and machine tallies mysteriously ’switching’ in several places throughout the country. There were so many reports, and they were so consistent, that many in congress called for a full investigation – that republicans refused to support.
Many of the failures and machine problems are detailed on wikipedia. I’m guessing you haven’t read this or similar postings if you still feel sceptical.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_U.S._presidential_election_controversy_and_irregularities
January 19th, 2006 at 3:28 pmWC, I hear what you are saying but I have a real problem behind the logic that the Democratic leadership had no confidence in challenging these allegations to the extent that they would be given serious consideration. There are plenty of venues to do so. I can understand if you contend that FOX News would not assist but what do you say about NYT, network news anchors like Dan Rather, cable shows that are no friends of the republican party. I could go on and on. There must not have been enough evidence.
RP, the collapse issue has always bothered me because it went all the way down. You would think at some point the non heated steel would have shed the collapsing material. But again I can’t argue that point. I just find it unlikely that the US conspired to have planes fly into WTC and then have it collapse to the ground by having it rigged to do so. Seems like a stretch.
January 19th, 2006 at 3:33 pmBen – Let me ask you this question regarding the WTC collapse. Let’s just assume for a minute that the building did come down due to the plane. Why was the ground in the basement area burning for over 2 months? What would cause that kind of heat that would melt the steel in the basement and keep it so hot that for 2 months the firefighters would have to keep spraying it with water?
Are you saying that the fire worked its way to the basement and even with the lack of oxygen was still able to maintain the heat? The only thing that would litterly melt the steal and keep it that hot is a small nuclear bomb, or thermite (I think thats what its called). This is the stuff that is used to take down buildings.
One would need to weaken the foundation of the building and along it’s fall to bring it down, correct?
Also, I read somewhere (I don’t recall where) but people were concerned about renting building space around the WTC’s after the 1993 attack. The theory is that in order to assure the people that there would not be any damage to other buildings, there would be explosives placed in the building so that if it was going to come down they could control the fall. Now I don’t know if this is true! This is a theory.
What is not a theory is the FACT that a building cannot collapse at a free fall rate without assistance. Besides, if the buildings did not come down how could they get rid of the evidence? This way the loss of life is minimal and the evidence is destroyed. Think about it.
January 19th, 2006 at 3:44 pmBen,
Interesting post. Seems that you’ve started to wrap your brain around the facts and the evidence but you can’t take that next logical leap that would force you to absorb the horrible truth that what we’ve been told about 9/11, the official story, doesn’t make sense. Maybe neocon/PNAC members weren’t complicit. Fine, but at the very least we all deserve to have some very basic questions answered. Is that fair?
I’ll be honest, I had an extremely difficult time coming to terms with the fact that there was at the very least gross negligence and at worst complicity…but now that I’ve seen so much evidence and wathed what these sick bastards are capable of, I’m convinced that PNAC’s catalyzing event, its “new Pearl Harbor” was 9/11.
I would give my left arm for that not to be true (and I’m a lefty).
January 19th, 2006 at 3:47 pmMany of the failures and machine problems are detailed on wikipedia. I’m guessing you haven’t read this or similar postings if you still feel sceptical.
I did read the wikipedia stats … I also checked out Blackbox and VerifiedVoting. Verified voting has said “we have not seen fraud and certainly not to the degree that would impact the election results”. They’re hardly a conservative front … heck, they’ve joined with MoveOn in championing secure elections.
January 19th, 2006 at 3:51 pm“It seems to me that Democrats should spend their time considering why the majority of Americans (No one could possibly say that Diebold is responsible for 3 million or so extra votes for Bush) went toward Bush … to not do so would likely lead to the same result in 2008.”
Comment by Giacomo — January 19, 2006 @ 3:16 pm
Thanks for the warning. Oh, by the way, Jack Abramoff is sinking your party’s chances – and we haven’t even heard from Fitz yet. Think he’s twiddling his thumbs and looking for a graceful exit? Or getting ready to drop the hammer.
January 19th, 2006 at 3:51 pmSpeaking of Hammers, didn’t that charge against Tom Delay get reinstated? Duke Cunningham is going to make an awful mess when he gives evidence to FBI investigators, don’t you think? And what’s that about Bill Frist’s possible insider trading charges? Did Dennis Hastert actually give money he received from Abramoff to a charity after it was revealed? And those lawsuits against the administration’s wiretapping policy (which has been conducted illegally for the past five years). Or how about that fundamentalist theocracy we installed? Katrina? $ 8 billion missing in taxpayer funds for Iraq reconstruction, all returning servicepeople who decide to run for office are registered dems . . . but thanks anyway for the advice.
No need to flashback. Osama has reappeared just in the nick of time to defray criticism from Bush’s illegal wire-tapping. Good old Osama. What the bin Ladens wouldn’t do for their old family friend in the White House.
January 19th, 2006 at 3:56 pm#131
Serious consideration by whom? The two groups who would have influence certainly aren’t interested. The officials in Ohio aren’t concerned, as is obvious by my post above. The Republicans in Congress? Ha! The same bunch who initially refused to give Rep. Conyers a venue in the Capitol to hold hearings on the Downing Street Minutes, forcing him to find an off-site location before he was finally given what amounted to a broom closet in the basement of the Capitol? The same bunch who scheduled 11 consecutive floor votes (per Conyers, unprecedented) in the hopes of disrupting the same hearing? Harry Reid shut the Senate down several months ago to try and get the Republican leadership to get moving on a promised investigation into how intelligence was used regarding the Iraq war; they’ve gotten nowhere on that.
January 19th, 2006 at 4:15 pmbut thanks anyway for the advice.
Sniff … so nice to be appreciated (snark).
I didn’t say the Republicans were cuddly puppies … I just said that perhaps the Democrats should focus on why they lost the majority vote and not count on a Republican implotion to hand the election over … take an “ideas” approach as opposed to the “at least we’re not that” approach.
January 19th, 2006 at 4:25 pm“I didn’t say the Republicans were cuddly puppies … I just said that perhaps the Democrats should focus on why they lost the majority vote and not count on a Republican implotion to hand the election over … Giacomo”
Did you ask yourself why the majority vote count in 1992, 1996 and 2000 all went to Democratic candidates? Only 2004 supposedly went Republican for president, and that’s in the last almost 20 years. This comment seems a little off the mark in light of that reality. And even in 2004, the polling all showed Kerry and the Democrats had the majority of americans behind them – and the links I provided showed widespread voter fraud. So your math doesn’t add up, although if your main sources of information is the mainstream media and their silly spin, I can see how you might not have thought the issue through.
January 19th, 2006 at 4:51 pmSo glad you brought back his words — they should be headlined today.
January 19th, 2006 at 5:32 pmIt didn’t take long (90 minutes) before the Bush toadies were on the air making political hay over this. We need the patriot act, we need to wiretap, the democrats are weaklings, the democrats want to tie our hands, etc., etc.
On the other hand — If his illegal spying, and his curtailing of civil liberties for 4 years hasn’t lessened the threat, why should we give Bush more power over us when he can’t show us a direct connection?
This is not the first time that a OBL tape has appeared when GWB is in trouble at home. I don’t know if there is a connection, but it certainly is a coincidence.
Guess which member of the fever swamp said this:
[BEGIN QUOTE]
[W]hat prompted me to speak are the repeated fallacies of your President Bush in his comment on the outcome of US opinion polls, which indicated that the overwhelming majority of you want the withdrawal of the forces from Iraq, but he objected to this desire and said that the withdrawal of troops would send the wrong message to the enemy.
Bush said: It is better to fight them on their ground than they fighting us on our ground.
In my response to these fallacies, I say: The war in Iraq is raging and operations in Afghanistan are on the rise in our favour, praise be to God. The Pentagon figures indicate the rise in the number of your dead and wounded, let alone the huge material losses.
To go back to where I started, I say that the results of the poll satisfy sane people and that Bush’s objection to them is false.
Reality testifies that the war against America and its allies has not remained confined to Iraq, as he claims. In fact, Iraq has become a point of attraction and recruitment of qualified resources.
Based on the above, we see that Bush’s argument is false.
However, the argument that he avoided, which is the substance of the results of opinion polls on withdrawing the troops, is that it is better not to fight the Muslims on their land and for them not to fight us on our land.
[END QUOTE]
Answer: it could have been almost ANY member of the fever swamp, from Howard Dean, to Jack Murtha, to Kos, to Judd, to . . . well, you get the idea.
Of course it wasn’t any of them. It was Osama himself. He still intends to attack us at home. He still intends to kill us. And he clearly takes comfort, despite his many losses on the battlefield, in the rabid protests of the fever swamp Left. Way to go, guys. I love how you “support the troops.”
January 19th, 2006 at 5:35 pm“And he clearly takes comfort, despite his many losses on the battlefield, in the rabid protests of the fever swamp Left. Way to go, guys. I love how you “support the troops.”
Comment by Blue State Red — January 19, 2006
More bilious swamp gas. Osama was successful because we have a president who cares more about his own vacation than protecting the American people.
January 19th, 2006 at 5:48 pmBSR – Yeah like the Republicans supported the troops. Let’s just see how they support them.
1) Failed to provide proper armorment.
2) Charged soldiers wounded in combat $8 a day for food while in the military hospital.
3) Makes the soldiers find their own way home from discharge of the military.
4) Send the dead home as cargo on civilian airplanes, rather than on a military transport wrapped in the American flag with the Honor Gaurd.
Well it sure looks to me like the Republicans are supporting the troops. They use these soldiers like they are toys and throw them out when they no longer serve a purpose.
Also, don’t you find it a little currious that OBL only shows up when there are contraversial issues with the government? It almost seems as though these are timed to raise the threat level to push the adjenda of the WH. We don’t hear from him for about a year, and yet when the Patriot Act and other contraversial issues are present he shows up. How convienent!
January 19th, 2006 at 6:15 pmAnybody notice Innocent Lite’s comment in post #30?
Paid DoJ troll alert.
January 19th, 2006 at 6:34 pm“Of course it wasn’t any of them. It was Osama himself. He still intends to attack us at home. He still intends to kill us. Blue State Red”
I saw elvis on television the other night, it doesn’t mean he’s alive you know. And besides, if he is alive, why has Bush been so inept for 4 years in not being able to catch him, even though he’s on TV? The folks who put him on TV certainly don’t seem to have any trouble finding him.
Are you sure Bush wants to catch him, after all he said Osama wasn’t important anymore. Although every time there’s an election coming, Osama appears like clockwork – isn’t that just magical? Considering the Bush, Saud and Bin Laden families are all friends, it makes you think.
January 19th, 2006 at 7:19 pm“1) Failed to provide proper armorment.
2) Charged soldiers wounded in combat $8 a day for food while in the military hospital.
3) Makes the soldiers find their own way home from discharge of the military.
4) Send the dead home as cargo on civilian airplanes, rather than on a military transport wrapped in the American flag with the Honor Gaurd.”
Oh, yeah, you lefties make these “support the troops” complaints all the time. NOT!
Look, whatever our other faults, we on the Right are consistent in our support of the troops. We support them politically. We support spending on the best equipment for them. We constantly, actively thank them for their service, because we sincerely believe and appreciate that they are advancing the cause of freedom.
The Left believes just the opposite. It sees only defeat, and it advocates cowardly withdrawal. The Left only “supports the troops” in name, as when they latch onto some poor mother who claims Bush killed her son (sound familiar?).
Case in point: the young soldier who stood up at a recent town hall meeting “starring” Jack Murtha (D-PA) and Jim Moran (D-VA). He had just returned with his unit from Iraq. He told Murtha that troop morale in Iraq is good, despite Murtha’s remarks to the contrary. He reminded Moran that, in all their time in Iraq, troops from Moran’s district never heard once from him, and he never bothered to welcome them home. Yeah, you guys “support the troops” all right!
You don’t cite any sources, and you’re a really bad speller. Let’s revisit this issue after you learn how to write.
January 19th, 2006 at 7:44 pm“Also, don’t you find it a little currious that OBL only shows up when there are contraversial issues with the government? It almost seems as though these are timed to raise the threat level to push the adjenda of the WH. We don’t hear from him for about a year, and yet when the Patriot Act and other contraversial issues are present he shows up. How convienent!”
“Are you sure Bush wants to catch him, after all he said Osama wasn’t important anymore. Although every time there’s an election coming, Osama appears like clockwork – isn’t that just magical? Considering the Bush, Saud and Bin Laden families are all friends, it makes you think.”
This isn’t “thinking” in the common sense of the word. It’s just more paranoia (and bad spelling) from the fever swamp Left.
Excuse me, now, I’ve got to stop by the White House dungeon and torture Osama some more before his bedtime!
January 19th, 2006 at 7:48 pmI would gain a little faith in the Bush administration if they did this. I am all for it. Put OBL in the stocks and let people throw rotting meat and vegatables at him, before he is taken to the good old fashion electric chair. Not the go to sleep shit we do not.
January 19th, 2006 at 7:49 pm#147
January 19th, 2006 at 8:21 pmIt’s just a coincidence. So many these days.
Blue State Red Simply saying you support the troops does not make it so. You fail the troops in every means there is. You FAIL to provide them with what they need. Generals stated many times that they needed more troops on the ground, but Rumsfeld felt he knew better. And Bush says that if the Generals ask for more troops they will get them, Yeah Right. Thats supporting the troops.
I’m not going to debate with a person who has the mentality of a 4 year old. If you were worth my time I would go grab that information, but this information you could get as well but you decide to burry your head in the sand. You do realize that this is not a spelling or grammer site, right. Your demener is so bad that I have met criminals, besides Bush and Cheney, who have better attitudes than you.
Its people like YOU that are turning this great country into a country that will be a Hitler based Germany. I hope you enjoy your great freedoms that I provided to you, and I would just as soon that you say THANK YOU and shut the hell up.
I served in the military, how bout you bozo?
January 19th, 2006 at 8:48 pmGood points every one on the left. My spin is this. Bush has never cared where Ben Lauden is. First off they were buddies, second he has known from the get go where he has been. Either buried or visiting a friend in plain sight. Maybe Texas. His tapes are always brought out to shake up the masses and divert what ever else this bunch of liers and thieves want to distract us from…..Blessings
January 19th, 2006 at 9:34 pmGiacomo, hey butt wipe bushco did not win by a majority. He either won or lost by a slim margin. He does not enjoy a majority support then or now. Who knows the truth. Get off it he will go down in history as the worst president up to this time. You are a deluded fool. Go buy youself a new brown strached shirt. You and your kind can’t get over the fact that FDR, Truman, JFK are the greatest Presidents of this age. You tried to make Reagan the equal of JFK and it will never work. I have no problem with Reagan, it is that he was so wrong but, without a mean sprirt. Bush is a complete a*S hole, devoid of any inner strength–a complete nothing. Try as you might he will always be recorded as a buffon.
Have a nice day.
January 19th, 2006 at 11:14 pmSharon Cox,
January 19th, 2006 at 11:28 pmHaven’t seen your comments for a while!
I agree that Bush really doesn’t want OBL caught. It is to his advantage to keep him “out there.” Bush can proceed with his perpetual war, with himself in charge. See, if Bush had not destroyed all credibility we would not be thinking these sinister thoughts. Well, may be would anyway, but not in this number.
Hiding in plain sight would put him, clean shaven, and living in the southwest somewhere. Conveniently available for a fresh audio tape when Georgie needs one.
blue state red- most people on this blog are not lefties but, progs. We detest both parties. We believe in true freedom. You can’t bait us with your worn out Clinton shit. We don’t give a shit. If you don’t like our spelling go frig yourself. You are supporting the worst President this country has ever been supjected to. He is a complete dunce. The fact you don’t know this makes you a complete fool. Get off this blog and tune in O’Liely or Drudge or that a*s hole Limburg. You are the company you keep. Matter of fact cozy up with that nasty bastard IRI and have a fudge packing party.
Have a nice day
January 19th, 2006 at 11:46 pm“Case in point: the young soldier who stood up at a recent town hall meeting “starring†Jack Murtha (D-PA) and Jim Moran (D-VA). He had just returned with his unit from Iraq. He told Murtha that troop morale in Iraq is good, despite Murtha’s remarks to the contrary. He reminded Moran that, in all their time in Iraq, troops from Moran’s district never heard once from him, and he never bothered to welcome them home. Yeah, you guys “support the troops†all right! Blue State Red”
Like most republican biased propagandists, you forgot to post all of the other comments from different soldiers. I give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that it’s ignorance on your part, although based on your posting, I’d say there’s a fair chance that hatred and bigotry on your part has played into your clear misrepresentation of the situation.
January 20th, 2006 at 12:51 am
Hey RightSlap – typically you take a reality and turn it upside down, like dishing Murtha for saying impeachment will never take place in this congress, hey he’s right. Never happen in this Republican controlled Legilsative House and Senate, never happen. BUT you wait, come Jan. 2007 after the Democrats take back BOTH houses, Murtha will introduce impeachment articles. Just wait.
January 20th, 2006 at 1:29 amMario,
Were you referring to me? I’d be happy to see impeachment, because clearly several impeachable offenses have been done. Were you referring to someone else?
So far only might aprhodite called me RightSlap, are you related to the poor old thing? She sounds really for attention and understanding, I always worry about the elderly like her. Abandoned, forgotten and out of touch. Poor old thing.
January 20th, 2006 at 2:25 amThis is a profoundly dishonest post. It is nothing more than a cut-and-paste hatchet job that ignores the context and meaning of the President’s remarks, in which he expressed primary concern for the coalition and our military, underscoring his confidence in our war strategy in Afghanistan.
Comment by Blue State Red #68
Fool’s State inb’Red,
Nobody gives a da*n how many excerpts from Bushiva’s speeches you dig up…
You know when that corrupt, cowardly basta*d is lying because you see his lips moving…
Your ilk’s mistake is that you “BELIEVE” in Bushiva, he is your god…
For that you are doomed…
January 20th, 2006 at 9:14 amMarie, Thank’s for the response. Have viewed this site daily but been very busy working on impeachment, saving wild life, enviroment and our constitution. Not posted much because of all the above. Viewing all my email and responding to all the patitions is time consuming and worth while. As you know, we are in the worst political times of our lives with this administration. C-span right now having hearings on the wiretapping and other crimes Bush is envolved in. Skimming this site is informative but a tiny addition to my realm of work to get done.. Unless we unite and get informed to the depth of our own terrorest government activities, remove them and replace with peaceful, constitution and law abiding types we will be doomed..Keep up the good work and information progressives, but don’t loose site of the prize, peace and civil rights…Blessings…P.S. Impeach and stop the war now.
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