Bush To Visit NSA For Propaganda Campaign
Bush To Visit NSA For Propaganda Campaign
If your legal arguments aren’t working, start a propaganda campaign:
The Bush administration is opening a campaign to push back against criticism of its domestic spying program, ahead of congressional hearings into whether President Bush has the legal authority to eavesdrop on Americans.
And remember, it’s all about the backdrop:
Bush will visit the ultra-secret National Security Agency on Wednesday, underscoring his claim that he has the constitutional authority to let intelligence officials listen in on international phone calls of Americans with suspected ties to terrorists.
But that’s not all. Alberto Gonzales has a speech scheduled on the issue for Tuesday and former NSA director Michael Hayden has an event at the National Press Club scheduled for Monday.
The administration does a good job scheduling a PR campaign. They do a bad job of following the law.
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I love Michael Hayden’s old slide show:
http://www.nsa.gov/releases/HPSCI_04122000/tsld001.htm
January 20th, 2006 at 2:16 pmSilly ThinkProgress!
The laws are for those who don’t have the money to get around the law!
Also, anyone who questions anything that Pres. Bush does MUST love the terrorists and hate America!
Or so I was told by the people hading out the kool-aid.
January 20th, 2006 at 2:18 pmDon’t forget: these guys think they can make reality whatever they wish it to be; therefore it makes perfect sense, in their mind, to go make a bunch of speeches because if they say it enough, it’s true.
January 20th, 2006 at 2:18 pmAs long as people continue to fall for it, Bush will continue to do it. And I can tell you my co-workers fall for it, and I can’t understand what the hell is wrong with them.
January 20th, 2006 at 2:26 pmIsn’t it about time that Bush starting governing and stopped campaigning? He’s so convinced that he’s right to spy on Americans, but he’s got to run around defending what he’s been doing?
January 20th, 2006 at 2:30 pmIs this the new tactic? Comment on an investigation before it becomes an investigation?
But wait…there’s more!
Bush is confident that the law covers him on this, so why bother??? You know…slam dunk case, an all that.
January 20th, 2006 at 2:30 pmViktor,
I love this slide from Michael Hayden’s slideshow.
Notice how it says a FISA warrant is required?
January 20th, 2006 at 2:32 pm#5
Ann…right on! I didn’t see your post before I submitted mine. Anyway, we’re on the same wavelength. Hee hee!
January 20th, 2006 at 2:33 pmTo add to #6, who wants to bet that the admin will go silent on this once the hearings start?
January 20th, 2006 at 2:34 pmAh yes, not before time… the “What Constitution?” tour, paid for with your tax-dollars.
But I especially like the idea of Hayden talking to the press… any chance James Risen gets an invite?
January 20th, 2006 at 2:40 pm#5 – He’s got to do what he’s best at. Geez, the press is going to lap this up, the dirty whores.
January 20th, 2006 at 2:48 pmMr ho say buschco peeper before 9/11
January 13, 2006
by Jason Leopold
t r u t h o u t | Perspective
The National Security Agency advised President Bush in early 2001 that it had been eavesdropping on Americans during the course of its work monitoring suspected terrorists and foreigners believed to have ties to terrorist groups, according to a declassified document.
The NSA’s vast data-mining activities began shortly after Bush was sworn in as president and the document contradicts his assertion that the 9/11 attacks prompted him to take the unprecedented step of signing a secret executive order authorizing the NSA to monitor a select number of American citizens thought to have ties to terrorist groups.
In its “Transition 2001″ report, the NSA said that the ever-changing world of global communication means that “American communication and targeted adversary communication will coexist.”
“Make no mistake, NSA can and will perform its missions consistent with the Fourth Amendment and all applicable laws,” the document says.
However, it adds that “senior leadership must understand that the NSA’s mission will demand a ‘powerful, permanent presence’ on global telecommunications networks that host both ‘protected’ communications of Americans and the communications of adversaries the agency wants to target.”
What had long been understood to be protocol in the event that the NSA spied on average Americans was that the agency would black out the identities of those individuals or immediately destroy the information.
But according to people who worked at the NSA as encryption specialists during this time, that’s not what happened. On orders from Defense Department officials and President Bush, the agency kept a running list of the names of Americans in its system and made it readily available to a number of senior officials in the Bush administration, these sources said, which in essence meant the NSA was conducting a covert domestic surveillance operation in violation of the law.
January 20th, 2006 at 2:55 pmmr ho want to kno
January 20th, 2006 at 2:56 pmWait Just a Second Here. I smell BIGTIME RATS.
NSA CAN SPY ON US , YET, WE CANNOT SPY BACK?
Thats Hypocracy at its Best.
Read this Part.:
Bush will visit the
National Security Agency on Wednesday
January 20th, 2006 at 2:58 pmYET BUSH WANT TO LEGALLY SPY ON The Average Citizen?
Why is NSA ULTRA SECRET? WHAT ARE THEY HIDING That We Cannot Know?
Bush is confident that the law covers him on this, so why bother??? You know…slam dunk case, an all that.
Comment by WC — January 20, 2006 @ 2:30 pm
Yes, he’s not acting like an innocent person, is he? Something about doth protesting too much, and all… :)
As best as I can discern from college Psychology, George Bush has a serious self-esteem issue. He needs everyone to like and approve of him all the time. Especially those of us who don’t. So, now he’s going to jump through some hoops, spend more of our tax dollars pointlessly, and intimidate some public officials to get us to believe him.
Should be interesting to see how far this goes, and how many more of our civil liberties will be trampled upon in the process.
In the interim, I’m brushing up on my French – just in case.
January 20th, 2006 at 3:13 pmIf the choice is between every american carrying guns to shoot at terrorists with bombs trying to get on buses here in America …. or living with the NSA reading everything I do on the Internet, listening to every phone call I make, putting spyware on my PC watching every key stroke … I will take the terrorists. At least you can shoot at them. With the NSA your have no chance and so anyone controling the NSA is your master from birth to death.
January 20th, 2006 at 3:15 pm#4, SuperEdo, it’s because people are (generally) too lazy to research the truth – that takes effort. Much easier to believe what you’re told as this is more convenient, ahh, the God of convenience.
PR campaigns work because people make an unconscious, idle decision to be sheep.
January 20th, 2006 at 3:28 pmWhy is the leadership not going on extreme offense on this? Up the ante, hit hard.
“Americans do not cower in fear of attack period. Americans are warriors and do not cave to terrorists and we’ll never sell out our rights to terroristsâ€.
January 20th, 2006 at 3:29 pm#4…. bushco has found tremendous payoff in utilizing FEAR of dirty bombs, chemical substances floating down from terrorists airplanes, OBL blowing up your home and the like to freeze most American brains. The ONE thing they learned early is that citizens are willing to give up freedoms if it guarantees being safe. That’s the message bushco sends and so far, people are buying. Never mind that the terrorism card has been over played, people don’t care. Remember, this is a country where you have the right to sue someone or anyone, if bad things happen in your life. Americans expect to be safe and happy and this prez is playing that expectation for all it’s worth.
January 20th, 2006 at 3:34 pmCitizen80203, what on earth do you mean by “Americans do not cower in fear of attack period.” Americans are among the world’s worst fearmongers and afraid! Why else would Bush be advised to relentlessly issue ‘terror alerts’? Why would Americans sleep with guns under their pillows? – yes, I’ve seen Farenheit 9/11.
I’m not saying ALL Americans do this but with the number of NRA members it is extremely worrying. If America is secure in it’s own right, why do so many of you seek practically absolute safety (I’m not saying you do, you post many sensible and rational comments – and I enjoy reading them!) which can never be obtained?
January 20th, 2006 at 3:41 pmAll the S*** this bunch pulls is part of their control and paronia package. Having lived around drunks, druggies and power hungry people in the past I see a definate pattern. Bush and company say they don’t watch the polls. Right they don’t, mass wiretapping and spieng on the public in general gives them their information. They create crap to keep the masses busy or fearful while they steal from us, rights and monetary power.As we the people fight back for our rights and constitution they will spin, bob weave and continue to lie and steal in more ernest. This bunch will go to any means to take total control. Dictatorship is Bushes main ajenda. He is a fool and terrorest with spiky brain waves running with a pack of rabid wolves….Untill we stand up and get this bunch out we will be bombarded with more of the same.Ban together, fight with me in mass peaceful way’s, if that does not work, keep you food, money and ammo very close….Blessings
January 20th, 2006 at 3:43 pmAmericans expect to be safe and happy and this prez is playing that expectation for all it’s worth.
Comment by Southwest Bob — January 20, 2006 @ 3:34 pm
You’re right…
No one is guaranteed anything, and those who are selling their soul to the neocon Devil himself are only going to be disappointed to find out that the real enemy is Big Tobacco, Big Oil, Big Military, etc.
Those fearful folks are more likely to die at the hands of their own child than a foreign enemy combatant (95% of victims know their attacker personally).
January 20th, 2006 at 3:55 pmFreedom Fighters ARE The Terrorists!
January 20th, 2006 at 3:55 pm“Americans do not cower in fear of attack period. Americans are warriors and do not cave to terrorists and we’ll never sell out our rights to terroristsâ€.
Comment by Citizen80203
Idiot Americans have always been willing to do away with the Bill of Rights. Most think it’s too “progressive”. Back in the seventies a university someplace did a study. They put kids out on the street and at supermarkets with a petition to see how many signatures they could get. It was basically a “petition” that would do away with the bill of rights. 80% of those approached signed it. If something is phrased in the right way, idiot Americans will buy it. They elected Bush, didn’t they?
January 20th, 2006 at 3:59 pmGary
It is an offensive rhetorical statement. If: you do fear a terrorist attack, then: you are a coward not an American. If: you are the president who wants America to cower in fear of attack and sell out our rights, then: that president is un-American. It is unanswerable rhetoric. It forces the GOP into defensive denial of cowardice and caving to terrorists.
January 20th, 2006 at 3:59 pmwe’ll never sell out our rights to terroristsâ€.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:01 pmDosnt mean anything. You,ll lose your Rights when I come Back.
It is You and Your Freedoms that has Neglected the Homeless,Poor, (even Your own Homeless Vets) The Needy.
For This Shalt Thou Lose Your Freedoms.
P.S. It is YOU Who will Destroy Your Own Freedoms. Not the Father in Heaven. The Father in Heaven Gave a Promise NOT To destroy You.
Sweet Baby Jesus folks,
It is rhetoric! Not a discussion of the soul of America within progressive circles.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:02 pmCitizen80203, thanks for your reply, I agree apart from the ‘unanswerable rhetoric’ part: your President (and by inference, my Prime Minister oops, I mean lap-dog) is/are un-American/un-British because they are fascists. I judge people by their actions, especially politicians.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:10 pmIf progressives form one large ad hoc union and boycott some of the major companies that give money to the Republican Party and lobby Republican representatives and senators we can make progressive legislative demands of the company CEOs or they lose our business and our money.
I suggest people write congress and demand a progressive agenda and tell your representatives that unless they increase the minimum wage, pass universal health care, pass vote by mail with paper ballots counted by civil servants throughout the US and other progressive legislation, you will boycott companies like Wendy’s restaurants, Outback Steakhouse and other hard core Republican contributors.
I would also suggest people look at
boycott – republicans . com which advocates boycotting companies that give money to the Republican Party and then demanding that these CEOs go to the Republican Party and get the legislation that we progressives want.
This appears the modern version of the Boston Tea Party.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:16 pmDon’t forget: these guys think they can make reality whatever they wish it to be;
Comment by Ugh #3
Ugh,
Unfortunately for the rest of us to their inbred base they can…
January 20th, 2006 at 4:17 pmWhat Are we Supposed to Fear? Terrorists?
January 20th, 2006 at 4:19 pmWhat is the Definition of Terrorist?
Web definitions for Terrorist
One who utilizes the systematic use of violence and intimidation to achieve political objectives, while disguised as a civilian non-combatant. The use of a civilian disguise while on operations exempts the perpetrator from protection under the Geneva Conventions, and consequently if captured they are liable for prosecution as common criminals.
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&newwindow=1&safe=off&rls=GWYA,GWYA:2006-01,GWYA:en&oi=defmore&defl=en&q=define:Terrorist
http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=49
I agree with your assessment of our President and your PM. The statement is not directed toward progressives, but the larger public who have bought into the psychosis.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:20 pmI Fear Bush is a Terrorist in Disguize.(Hitler ring a Bell?)
January 20th, 2006 at 4:21 pmFor some Reason, I am not afraid of Saddam Hussain as much as I am of Bush and his Partner Osama.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:23 pmI feel sorry for Saddam.
America Responds to Terrorism — What is Terrorism?
January 20th, 2006 at 4:25 pmAcademics striving to define terrorism are also subject to their own …
European countries and the United States tend to define terrorism narrowly, …
http://www.crf-usa.org/terror/What_Is_Terrorism_rev.htm – 14k – Cached – Similar pages
http://www.crf-usa.org/terror/What_Is_Terrorism_rev.htm
http://www.cia.gov/terrorism/faqs.html
Hi fellows!…now show me the tape of the girl going potty!
January 20th, 2006 at 4:26 pmFlashback
Well, I for one fear our government. As for terrorists attacking America, no I do not fear that, only concerned. I’ll even go futher, if one does “fear” attack and is willing to sell out my rights, the are f**king cowards.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:26 pmHow do you define terrorism?
The Intelligence Community is guided by the definition of terrorism contained in Title 22 of the US Code, Section 2656f(d):
—The term “terrorism†means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.
—The term “international terrorism†means terrorism involving the territory or the citizens of more than one country.
—The term “terrorist group†means any group that practices, or has significant subgroups that practice, international terrorism.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:27 pmCitizen80203, I know from your previous posts you are not simple-minded or against progressives. I consider myself your ally as I support good Americans and understand what you are fighting, I’m fighting it here too. I always thought that in times of ‘war’, leaders came forth to answer the call i.e. Winston Churchill WW11 – there seems to be a natural selection for greater leaders in times of greater troubles. I think we both lack these leaders now – when it matters most. I think too many people on both sides of the pond are lining their pockets.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:28 pmFlashback
You are posting semantics. Everyone has a “mindset†of what a terrorist is. I posted a rhetorical statement, showing a possible line of attack for the Dem Leadership, that is all.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:33 pm#38. Define Rights. Define Freedom.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:35 pmhttp://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&newwindow=1&safe=off&rls=GWYA,GWYA:2006-01,GWYA:en&oi=defmore&defl=en&q=define:Rights
http://www.china.org.cn/english/MATERIAL/9098.htm
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&newwindow=1&safe=off&rls=GWYA,GWYA:2006-01,GWYA:en&oi=defmore&defl=en&q=define:freedom
http://d.whyville.net/smmk/whytimes/article?id=1205
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Dec2003/n12022003_200312023.html
Gary
I agree, worst part is we are at such a crucial point in world history. Our “leaders” decisions now may be condeming us to a slow cancer like death.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:36 pmWho let the dog out?
I tell you folks, Bush is worried on this one. He has let Rove out after about 3 months of seclusion to help with the smear campaign against the hearings into the NSA spying.
Just goes to show you how desperate the chimpy is.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:37 pmYes Paulo
They are frightened. I just hope the Dems don’t blow this issue.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:38 pm#29 – John Doe – although you bring up great agendas to be dealt with in time, my primary focus is to get our legislative branch to impeach this administration. A progressive agenda that is beneficial for all citizens will not come to fruition if this administration remains in power and the corruption continues. It is also imperative that we reform campaign contribution and election methods.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:41 pmBut first: IMPEACH!
January 20th, 2006 at 4:47 pm
Plunger
You make some valid points, but your posting takes up so much space you end up crowding out folks.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:47 pmJanuary 20th, 2006 at 4:49 pm
Who celebrated in New York on 9/11?
Comment by plunger
I’ll bet big money you did Mohammed.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:49 pmThis isn’t propaganda.
Propaganda is the Democrats false claims of spying.
Bush is defending his reputation against the lies.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:50 pmhttp://www.china.org.cn/english/MATERIAL/7818.htm
January 20th, 2006 at 4:51 pmThis is a MUST Read. They have a Plan. We don,t.
Lest we forget, OBL said, “We had no difficulty in dealing with Bush and his administration because they resemble the regimes in our countries, half of which are ruled by the military and the other half by the sons of kings … They have a lot of pride, arrogance, greed and thievery.” OBL knows bush better than we do. OBL said he would destroy America financially, not building by building. Gurss what? He’s doing it. He couldn’t have picked a better goof ball to help him carry out his threat to destroy America. While bushco makes sure no fingernail clippers board an airplane, he doesn’t mind spending millions a day on a fallback strategy to bring democracy to Iraq. We’ve been had by the dumbest prez in modern or perhaps all time. His pack of neo-cons have scared Americans into giving up any chance of maintaining their standard of living, ops, except for the very rich, who will only get richer.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:51 pm# 55. G.P. Here is a Better way of Putting it. I,m sure you will agree.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:53 pm
Gary – Lies? Bush has said that he is doing it. How are these lies? He admitted that he was, has, and will continue to do this.
Some time back, he stated: Paraphrasing “anytime you hear the word wire tap- a wire tap requires a warrant. Nothing has changed, a warrant is still required to wiretap.”
So who is the lier now?
January 20th, 2006 at 4:56 pm#
Who celebrated in New York on 9/11?
Comment by plunger
I’ll bet big money you did Mohammed.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 20, 2006 @ 4:49 pm
Israelis taking video foo
January 20th, 2006 at 4:57 pmUkraine BushCo!!!!!!!!!!
Grab a sign, a flag, a harmonica, or a drum and start walking to Washington!
January 20th, 2006 at 4:59 pm#This isn’t propaganda.
Propaganda is the Democrats false claims of spying.
Bush is defending his reputation against the lies.
Comment by Gary Ruppert — January 20, 2006 @ 4:50 pm
Gary get a Dictionary, better yet, google for it, then read it, COPY it and paste it here. many Thankss -Mr ho love you
January 20th, 2006 at 4:59 pmThe lies about this include claiming it’s domestic spying, when it is terrorist monitoring. As well, the left is claiming that this is more vast than it really is.
January 20th, 2006 at 4:59 pmPlease, oh please keep focusing on this issue, DEMs. It will only cement further your reputation for not being serious about national security.
“The National Security Agency is the enemy! They want to spy on your little granny and use that info to ruin her life!”
Keep going down that path guys and you will become an even smaller minority.
I feel comfortable giving you this advice because I know the response will be denial and name calling. Serious reflection is scarce around here.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:01 pmBrits, if thats where your from, gave up their guns a while back, and their rights to own them. Most people whom own guns are quite safe with them, and given the nut jobs like bushco, they arent likely to soon gove them up.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:03 pmThe Brits in effect, thru Blair, have given up many rights as well.
#The lies about this include claiming it’s domestic spying, when it is terrorist monitoring. As well, the left is claiming that this is more vast than it really is.
Comment by Gary Ruppert — January 20, 2006 @ 4:59 pm
The only thing vast I see gary is the gap between your ears. Quit thinking me vs them or you will never ‘git it’
January 20th, 2006 at 5:04 pmyou didnt paste the meaning of the word I asked gary
January 20th, 2006 at 5:05 pmI saw a replay today of Bush guaranteeing to me and the rest of us that he would get a FISA warrant each time he wished to spy on US citizens. He reassured me saying he knew it was the legal way to proceed and that he would always abide by US law.
He didn’t and now says he didn’t have to.
His followers can’t see what’s in front of their noses. He was lying then or now. Too bad for all of us. These followers were going to protect morality in the US because a Democratic president had an affair. Remember? They don’t care about illegal spying? I say they’ve gone rather insane, in the McCarthy vein of insanity: paranoia, projection, fear-mongering. Too bad Curtis LeMay isn’t around because all we need now is some right winger blowing off his fabulously well-to-do bazoo about how we should launch nukes against our enemies. Then it really would be a time machine moment.
They’ve been too rich, too overfed, too lazy for too long. Real Americans, not the Right-Wing elites, have been scrambling to pay the bills. Now there’s a 2 trillion dollar war of aggression against a foe who was unarmed and threatened no one, and was as under surveillance and hence neutered as the KKK. My health insurance bills are astronomical. Who cares? Not you.
I doubt anyone will listen to anyone anymore. I am sad for my country.
If the president says war measures grant him the right to supercede congress and the courts, then I ask you righties the following: what action may the president NOT do? Is there ANY limit AT ALL to the president’s power?
If the answer is no, then where is your understanding of checks and balances? Where is your understanding of English history and why Americans had to leave there and start a new nation?
Or is it a case of “meet the new boss, same as the old boss,” except that King George has morphed into President George with all the powers of a king?
I call this administration a Requiem in C-Minus.
And down we go.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:06 pmThe lies about this include claiming it’s domestic spying, when it is terrorist monitoring. As well, the left is claiming that this is more vast than it really is.
Good Lord. Even the Bush administration has admitted it is domestic spying.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:07 pmGary – So your telling me that Colin Powel and Jimmy Carter are terrorists? They have been spied on, by this program probably. How do you know that this is only on terrorists? They have jacked into the switch board and are just sifting data.
So then if the police was to bust into your house and begin searching it this would be fine with you? If they take you to the police station and interrogate you for something that you are not involved in, this is OK with you. They lock you up and keep you for weeks, months, or years this is OK with you? All of this because ONE MAN says that you know something that you don’t.
You need to look at the big picture rather than the pin head.
This is your problem….. If he is just looking at the terrorists, then I have NO PROBLEM with this. But just grabbing what ever they want, how they want, when they want is where I have a problem. They are breaking the LAW. They have not requested ANY warrants.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:07 pm64. Please, oh please keep focusing on this issue, DEMs. It will only cement further your reputation for not being serious about national security.
“The National Security Agency is the enemy! They want to spy on your little granny and use that info to ruin her life!â€
Funny, but it was Nixon whom thru his political spying, like Bushco, that brought about the FISA in the first place. Bush As POSTED by me above was spying on CERTAIN people BEFORE 9/11
January 20th, 2006 at 5:07 pmSo you can spin and squirm and delay the inevitable.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:08 pmBut
Mr ho kno
#64
Please, oh please keep focusing on this issue, DEMs. It will only cement further your reputation for not being serious about national security.
“The National Security Agency is the enemy! They want to spy on your little granny and use that info to ruin her life!â€
Keep going down that path guys and you will become an even smaller minority.
I feel comfortable giving you this advice because I know the response will be denial and name calling. Serious reflection is scarce around here.
Comment by Concerned Conservative — January 20, 2006 @ 5:01 pm
It has nothing to do with National Security. What is your problem with protecting your civil rights? Maybe your willing to give up your rights, but I am not.
Have you served in the military? I would bet not, as most of the people who argue this topic have NEVER SERVED IN THE MILITARY! I have and I want to keep my CONSTITUTION in tact.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:12 pmSo Gary are you saying that Bush was spying on terrorists before 9/11 and yet failed to detect, and ignore, warnings?
January 20th, 2006 at 5:12 pmThe fact is that the Democrats are against the war on terror and against the things needed to win the War on Terror
January 20th, 2006 at 5:13 pmThe gary is saying that although bush was spying on political enemies, it enhanced National Intelligence..?
Hmm
The if this was so, then Bush, busy spying on political enemies, thus ignored national security for Political security?
Is that what you say Gary?
January 20th, 2006 at 5:14 pmMr gary read back to Reagn and Freedom fighters.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:14 pmMr gary was it policy that fomented this action of freedom fighters?
January 20th, 2006 at 5:15 pmMr gary WHom funded and trained these?
Mr gary is mr Bush an American first or a Republican?
January 20th, 2006 at 5:16 pmmr ho, I am from Britain and have posted here for some time, including news that breaks here vs. news that breaks in America to compare the two.
You said, “Most people whom own guns are quite safe with them” I understand that America has one of the highest , if not the highest, rate of gun crime/murders anywhere in the world – circa. 11,000 deaths/year. Is your fettish for guns really justified? It seems to most of the world as a conceited disguise for ‘I’m the man’ which really equates to ‘I’m sh!t scared of everything and need this gun to comfort my paranoia’.
I agree that we Brits have given up many rights for the better of society/true security (which is why publicly we continually vote against the police being armed – it will only result in more armed criminals) but we are too lax with the current criminals sitting in Parliament. We are trying to impeach Blair et al. Like all good Americans, we Brits are horrified at the erosion of our constitutional rights.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:17 pmFor the dumbass eunuchs posting here
Actually NSA is just the tool Bush uses to sell out to terrorists by selling out our rights. Cower in fear in your basements eunuchs, just wipe your mouth, you have some Ken Melman drooling on your lip.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:18 pmMr gary I never say I own gun.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:18 pmStop your bias. READ
Mr gary do I go to British blogs and post? Mr gary is or is not your anger then directed at Bush and Blair?
January 20th, 2006 at 5:19 pmMr gary I have no guns sir,I work just as you do. Most of the crime in our country is due to Disparity of Wealth, and the media grandiosity of it. I recognize this, yet you send VERY confusing messages.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:21 pmWe are both fighting the same things Gary, chill out.
What we have here is Going, Going, Gonzoooooooooo:
January 20th, 2006 at 5:21 pm
Thats all mr ho say
January 20th, 2006 at 5:21 pmmr ho
Come on now, country of origin is not a prerequisite to post here.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:22 pmGary – unlike Britan, our Constitution ensures that we have a RIGHT to bare arms. Which means that we have a RIGHT to have a gun.
Guns dont kill people, people kill people. The problem with taking guns away, because they can kill, is that now you have to take away knives. Then why stop there? Someone can kill another person with a car, so lets take those away. Wait, theres those eating utensils like butter knifes of forks; take those too.
So you see, the arguement is really how you look at it. Sure guns help in the killings, but it is not the cause.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:23 pm#81 — you are the paranoid one, worrying about the NSA spying on you. Why would they bother? Don’t you think they have better things to do? The only citizens they want to spy on are those that have some connection to our terrorist enemies.
“But they’re trampling my rights!” you whine. Citizen child, please grow up and worry about real problems for a change.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:24 pm“Gary – unlike Britan, our Constitution ensures that we have a RIGHT to bare arms.”
Well, I don’t know about you but I’m rolling my sleeves up!
January 20th, 2006 at 5:26 pmOK CC – Answer this:
So then if the police was to bust into your house and begin searching it this would be fine with you? If they take you to the police station and interrogate you for something that you are not involved in, this is OK with you. They lock you up and keep you for weeks, months, or years this is OK with you? All of this because ONE MAN says that you know something that you don’t.
This is VERY MUCH THE SAME THING. If your willing to let the President break the law, then your willing to allow them to do what every they want.
You just don’t get it do you?
January 20th, 2006 at 5:26 pmmr ho, my concern is one I have posted before, your president leads the world. This means Blair will and does and has done for some time, seek unfettered allegiance with whoever is in power in the USA (to influence them) – this is why a labour Government in Britain is becoming more neoconservative by the day. It is imperative you good Americans remove Bush ASAP because this removes many problems from all over the world – you lead the way, for better or worse and currently it’s for worse.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:27 pmI wrote selling out our rights, not f**king “trampling” pussy. Typical eunuch coward argument, ” The only citizens they want to spy on are those that have some connection to our terrorist enemies”, to bad they are not going to expose all your male whores in the whitehouse. Go squat in your duct tapped basement eunuch.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:30 pmRemoveBush, I agree people kill people but your arguement doesn’t stack up. People in Britain do not go around killing each other in numbers of c. 11,000/year with knives/butter forks etc. Having a gun provides an opportunity – don’t you get it? It is much harder to kill a person with a butter fork than with a gun!
Having a constitutional right to own a gun is not necessarily a good thing just because it’s constitutional.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:33 pm#93 — Dale Carnegie graduate?
January 20th, 2006 at 5:33 pmActually, went to a working class college not your pussy elitist Printon.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:37 pm#91 — no I would not be OK with the police breaking into my house and searching it — unless they had a reason to do it based on some intelligence they had gathered.
Let me ask you something. The Dems in my state just made it legal to stop and fine (and search) motorists if they think they are not wearing a seat belt. No other cause required. How about that for respecting my rights as a citizen.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:38 pm#96 — Dartmouth actually. We used to beat up Princeton fags for entertainment.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:39 pmOthers have mentioned this above, but why aren’t the dems and even progressive blogs or organizations like ThinkProgress constantly pointing out the much-ignored revelation that a declassified document shows that the spying started PRIOR to 9/11, which basically kills Bush’s whole argument that after september 11th he needed the warrantless spying to “get” the terrorists not to mention destroying his central argument that the congressional authorization for military force against Afghanistan implicitly gave him the ok to ignore FISA.
spying prior to 9/11:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011306Z.shtml
declassified document (the Transitions document):
January 20th, 2006 at 5:39 pmhttp://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB24/nsa25.pdf
Actually eunuch
The seat belt laws were the product of the insurance industry. So by all means don’t buckle up.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:40 pm#97 Police can see if you’re not wearing a seat belt. They can also pull you over if they think you are speeding, or drunk. Does that also violate your rights?
However, BIG HOWEVER, it must be reviewed by a court. That is the law. Something Bush supporters seem to know nothing about.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:40 pmWe really need to send the message loud and clear that BUsh was illegally spying on americans PRIOR to 9/11- the mainstream media is ignoring this- we need to get this information out.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:40 pmDon’t you think they have better things to do? The only citizens they want to spy on are those that have some connection to our terrorist enemies.
Clearly the NSA doesn’t have anything better to do given the voluminous data they gathered and gave to the FBI to investigate that turned out to be nothing.
And please define “terrorist enemies.” Does that include anyone who disagrees with the Bush party line?
January 20th, 2006 at 5:42 pmCC, what if the police thought they had reason to search your house, but didn’t feel the need to get a search warrant?
You would be okay with that right? Unless, by Bush logic, you don’t think police should be able to search criminals.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:43 pmIt forces the GOP into defensive denial of cowardice and caving to terrorists.
Comment by Citizen80203 — January 20, 2006 @ 3:59 pm
Are You That Congress woman that Insulted Murtha?
January 20th, 2006 at 5:48 pmCitizen80203
January 20th, 2006 at 5:50 pmShe said something like what you said. im not sure what to make of your statement.
cowards cut and run, marines never do.
A little off topic. I just got an email from the Republican Party (have no idea how the got me email address) titled “Start a State of the Union House Party”. So in case the trolls were at this blog and missed it, here is the link:
http://www.republicanvictoryteam.com/Party
January 20th, 2006 at 5:53 pmFor f**ks sake falshback
IT WAS RHETORICAL STATEMENT!
January 20th, 2006 at 5:56 pmDamn IRI eunuch, when you talk with a load of Ken Melman in your mouth, you spray it all over your screen.
January 20th, 2006 at 5:58 pm#104 — that’s right Cynical, police searching your house without a warrant is the same as monitoring a phone call.
Hey, I don’t want my privacy violated either, but let’s find out what’s really going on before we leap to the conclusion that Bush wants to strip search us without cause. (sorry for the scary visual)
January 20th, 2006 at 5:58 pmWell eunuch
Finally for some oversight eh?
January 20th, 2006 at 5:59 pm“It sure is a good thing that left wing British faggots and prissing terrorist appeasing Zeropeans don’t have any real power over America. If they did we’d all be dead. I-RIGHT-I”
And this is why thinking should be a sport left to those who are mentally fit. If what you say is true, there would be no europeans alive – clearly not the case. So while your fear, hysteria and irrational beliefs mirror your belief in religious talking donkeys and 8000 year old flat earths – it’s just as untrue. And just as your fear of terrorism clearly stems from your own deep seated mistrust of your own impulses, so clearly does your hatred of gay people. Fear is the mind killer, and religion is usually it’s tool for the weak of mind. When you grow up and throw out fairy tales, and learn to live as an adult free thinker, maybe you won’t say such silly, hate filled and idiotic statements. I forgive you for your foolishness, and hope that someday you’ll grow out of it.
January 20th, 2006 at 6:00 pmturning it over to you IRI — I’ve battling the loons for a while and need a break…
January 20th, 2006 at 6:00 pmRhetorical Figures in Sound: Distinctio
Rhetorical Figures in Sound … “Now, first I should define my terms: ‘man’
and ‘God.’ By man, of course, I mean society — social man….” …
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/figures/distinctio.htm – 17k – Cached – Similar pages
rhetoric: Definition, Synonyms and Much More From Answers.com
January 20th, 2006 at 6:01 pmrhet·o·ric ( rÄ•t ‘ É™r-Äk ) n. The art or study of using language effectively and
persuasively. A treatise or book discussing this art.
http://www.answers.com/topic/rhetoric – 93k – Cached – Similar pages
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/figures/distinctio.htm
http://www.answers.com/topic/rhetorical-question
“Hey, I don’t want my privacy violated either, but let’s find out what’s really going on before we leap to the conclusion that Bush wants to strip search us without cause. (sorry for the scary visual) Concerned Conservative”
We already know what’s going on – warrantless searches. Or had you missed that key piece of news? What we don’t know is how soon we can get enough Democrats in place to impeach Bush for his illegal acts. Republicans have shown themselves to be too corrupt and immoral to do the right thing to defend america and our civil liberties. Poor little scared republicans only ‘fear’ and ‘hate’, and forgotten how to think in that fear.
January 20th, 2006 at 6:02 pmCC
Just patch the corner window in your basement with some more duct tape before you squat for bed.
January 20th, 2006 at 6:02 pmDamn IRI eunuch, when you talk with a load of Ken Melman in your mouth, you spray it all over your screen.
Comment by Citizen80203
I detect a note of hostile latent homosexuality in that statement. I’m going to suggest you be enrolled in one of “Think Communist’s” many sensitivity training courses. We simply can’t have that kind of vulgar suggestive sexually harassing talk on this board.
January 20th, 2006 at 6:03 pm“turning it over to you IRI — I’ve battling the loons for a while and need a break… Concerned Conservative”
Republicans who talk to themselves in the mirror and ignore the wisdom and intelligence of progressives often feel that way. I can understand what a strain a rational argument must be to someone so consumed with hate, fear and ignorance. I forgive you of being so weak, and such a coward – as you should forgive yourself. When you grow up, maybe the members of your party will be better able to participate in the world as an adult.
January 20th, 2006 at 6:04 pmYou are too sensitve eunuch.
January 20th, 2006 at 6:05 pmSorry, off subject but anticipated by many of us. Must be time for another big ass tax cut for the richest Americans. Gotta get this economic thang goin’!
Lackluster earnings reports from Dow Jones industrials General Electric Co. and Citigroup Inc. sent stocks plunging Friday, giving the Dow its biggest single-day percentage drop in nine months. The major indexes each lost more than 2 percent this week.
January 20th, 2006 at 6:12 pm“I detect a note of hostile latent homosexuality in that statement. I’m going to suggest you be enrolled in one of “Think Communist’s†many sensitivity training courses. We simply can’t have that kind of vulgar suggestive sexually harassing talk on this board. I-RIGHT-I”
So much hate, fear and rage I-RIGHT-I. Poor little pumpkin – I forgive you for your hostility and bigotry – try forgiving yourself and you’ll feel much better.
January 20th, 2006 at 6:12 pmIRI, actually I’m straight, I’ve been married (to a woman) for a while now. Do you not understand that by posting continually hate-filled nonsense you are probably inspiring moderate conservatives away from your cause? Look at how moderate cons have turned against Ann Coulter.
I do not and nor does anyone I know, seek power over America – those of us who know the difference between Republicans and Democrats seek friendship with the (mostly) good people of America.
You are the reason America is hated all over the world. Your narrow-minded fascism will be America’s undoing. I do not want to see this happen. Remember, the world is greater than America.
IRI, I repeat, 7/9 fouding fathers were liberals: fascists are un-American. Republicans cause wars which endanger American lives: Republicans are un-American. Conservatives are selfish, social Darwinists who endanger the poor: Conservatives are un-American.
I was born in Britain, raised in Britain, educated in Britain, married in Britain, have lived all over Britain and am writing this from Britain.
I am more American than IRI and his ilk.
January 20th, 2006 at 6:16 pmAt least Judd practices what he preaches. As I’ve pointed out elsewhere, he knows that it’s a lot easier to knock down a straw man of your own making than to deal with the issues on their merits.
January 20th, 2006 at 6:18 pmHey, I don’t want my privacy violated either, but let’s find out what’s really going on before we leap to the conclusion that Bush wants to strip search us without cause. (sorry for the scary visual)
Bush doesn’t want us to find out what is going on, and he doesn’t think we have any right to know. We’re just supposed to trust and shop – as opposed to trust but verify.
January 20th, 2006 at 6:19 pm“At least Judd practices what he preaches. As I’ve pointed out elsewhere, he knows that it’s a lot easier to knock down a straw man of your own making than to deal with the issues on their merits. Blue State Red”
And that summarizes republican values nicely. Strawman arguments dominate because of the fear and laziness of the rightwing to deal with issues honestly. As a rightwing politician once told Clinton “Republicans lie because if we told the truth you’d win every time”. That’s republican fear based values in a nutshell. Because rightwing republicans fear that they can’t win on the ‘merit’ of their arguments, they deceive. I forgive you Blue State Red for feeling so desperate and fearful that you need to lie. It must be awful to feel that afraid of the world and the truth – I can only imagine. Kind of like when you start knowing santa claus isn’t real, except you still fight to believe. Blame it on Christianity – they teach you poor saps to believe in an 8000 year old flat earth, with talking donkeys and virgin births. No wonder you guys are afraid of the real world.
January 20th, 2006 at 6:29 pmBlue State Red – You have never answered my question about whether you have served in the military. Are you an armchair warrior?
January 20th, 2006 at 6:38 pm[...] You know it’s bad when the President has to go on a tax-payer funded campaign-style propaganda tour to convince Americans he acted in accordance with the law. [...]
January 20th, 2006 at 6:51 pm#94 Gary, look at the murder rates per capita, not quantity. You’ve got 60M people to our almost 300 million. Murder “rate” in England is not that much different than the U.S.
From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2656875.stm
“…murder rates for both countries are now changing. In 1981 the American rate was 8.7 times the English rate, in 1995 it was 5.7 times the English rate, and by last year it was 3.5 times. With American rates described as “in startling free-fall” and British rates as of October 2002 the highest for 100 years the two are on a path to converge.”
January 20th, 2006 at 7:11 pm#68 GTL
I, like you, am sad for my country. This, indeed, is a requiem. For America as we know it.
January 20th, 2006 at 7:43 pmI just watched a couple of news shows deal with the Govt. demanding Google and other search engines turn over information to them.
This is like a snowball rolling downhill, running over all of us, scooping up all of our freedoms.
And yet 2002 saw 30,242 deaths from firearms in the united states. This is TEN TIMES more people than died in the world trade center. As one quote I read said, if Bin Laden really wants to kill us, all he needs to do is fund the NRA – they seem to be doing a much more efficient job of killing americans than Al Qaeda is.
The fear and hate mongers are so out of touch with reality. To even equate a small group criminals to fighting the soviets or nazi germany is just silly. They aren’t hinged to reality, and prefer to lie to themselves to justify criminal actions from the government. It’s really just sad. Feel sorry for these fear bunnies of the right, because clearly they are desperate to feel protected by those who are emotionally and morally stronger than themselves.
January 20th, 2006 at 7:44 pmplunger, those are some interesting tidbits. I thought the Chertoff connection was weird, too. I am waiting with baited breath for the Enron trials to begin.
January 20th, 2006 at 7:47 pmWhen Bush visits the NSA will he be wearing a codpiece? Will he don his cape and sheathed sword?
January 20th, 2006 at 7:51 pm#31: Flashback,
Careful, the government might need your google searches to fight kiddie porn.
Gary, when the government says they’re only using their powers on terrorists, do you believe them? Do you trust them do only use their powers to protect us? I certainly don’t.
January 20th, 2006 at 8:32 pmDear Progs – A Super secret special message from your friend bin Laden:
“Thanks for all the help evading the intrusive Bush. Kebabs grilled over dung will be served as soon as you (unintelligible) your tours of duty as human shields, God willing.”
January 20th, 2006 at 8:50 pmYour friend,
UBL
Ah, now we see exactly how fragile, fearful and out of touch with reality mighty aphrodite really is. I mean, everyone knows that Osama prefers suburban life – much like she probably does. When we thought he was in the squalor of Afghanistan and wasted countless resources searching for him, the military finally figured out he was in a suburban house in Kabul living the high life. Clearly dung roasted food is the diet of the republicans who prefer to scare americans rather than lead them. When you can’t lead a people, scaring them into submission is the next best act of the coward and the inept. I feel deeply sorry for you mighty aphrodite. A woman of your age should take up knitting or needlepoint and not trouble yourself with all of this hatemongering and fear baiting of your fellow americans. Leave that up to the Osama videos – he’s better at it than you are.
January 20th, 2006 at 8:59 pm#137 Aphrodite, you forget to include the P.S. of that message:
January 20th, 2006 at 9:09 pm“P.S. Praise be to Allah for giving us our greatest sleeper agent, George Bush (may he never wake up), and our most prized (and deadly) terrorist cell, PNAC. Without their help, my new terrorist training ground and recruiting program in Iraq would have only been a fever-swamp dream. Ta ta, for now I must take all the Mrs. Bin Ladens out for a night on the town, they love to dance. I kiss you, O.B.L.”
iberal elite
liberal ["liberalis" L - suitable for a freeman, generous; "eleutheros" Gk - free] (adj) generous, open-minded, not subjugated to authoritarian domination; (n) one who believes in liberty, universal suffrage and the free exchange of ideas. elite ["eslire" Fr -- to choose fr.L "eligere" -- choose] (n) the choice part; best of a class; the socially superior part of society.
Mr ho say IRI me got ho money
January 20th, 2006 at 9:20 pmand you Mr IRI you fail in humanity 101
but yo funny, me like funny men
call me hip swagger fi fi fo -fi fi fo fo
mr IRI are you virtuous?
January 20th, 2006 at 9:21 pmthus said above IRI does virtue need or want money?
January 20th, 2006 at 9:22 pm#131, Mikey, you stated; “look at the murder rates per capita, not quantity. You’ve got 60M people to our almost 300 million. Murder “rate†in England is not that much different than the U.S.”
January 20th, 2006 at 9:46 pmI agree it’s important to look at rates/capita not just quantity but you are missing the point. A gun is very good at killing a person when wielded by a second irresponsible person – lots of guns provide lots of opportunities to kill because there are lots of irresponsible people and guns are good at killing. Remove guns and just watch the number of deaths go down. Good grief, you are naïve. Below are some better stats for you that show America is way ahead of Britain and many others (Industrialised countries includes Britain)
source: U.S. Bureau of Justice stats – Nov. 2004, FBI stats;
On average, the USA homicide rate is 7-9 per 100,000 population. In the city of Los Angeles alone, there are 20-50 murders every 24 hours.
The USA has the highest rates of childhood homicide, suicide and firearm-related deaths among 25 industrialised countries.
There are more than 28,000 gun-related deaths every year in the USA.
The overall firearm-related death rate among American children less than 15 years of age is 12 times higher than in all 25 industrialised countries combined.
The overall firearm-related homicide rate is nearly 16 times higher.
So Emperor Bush is going to go to the NSA headquarters > lol. The FBI should wait there for George, and arrest him with the Director of the NSA! All the files should be seized on the illegal wiretaps and turned over to a Special Prosecutor! Time for impeachment of Dubya to begin!
January 21st, 2006 at 12:26 amThe irony of the situation is the basic failure to realize that the Bush Administration has adopted the terrorist’s number one weapon, fear, and they do not hesitate to use it, promoting fear of the terrorists while using the very fear that they are fomenting, to subdue and control americans, but claiming that they are only trying to protect us. It all revolves around making certain that we are always afraid. That is no way to live. Tyrants have always ruled through fear. How are George & Co. any different from Saddam, in this respect? Open your eyes.
January 21st, 2006 at 7:25 amWhat you trolls are missing is that after 9/11, when we took out the Taliban in Afghanistan, Al Qaeda was all but dead. Yes, I give the Bush Administration and our military credit for knowing to go after the Taliban and Al Quada at that time. Unlike you, I am not an absolutist.
But where I have a problem with this Administration is that they did not have an exit strategy (lest you forget we’re still in Afghanistan fighting), nor did they know to stop there. People in the Middle East thought that Al Quaeda was just as crazy as most Democrats currently think Bush is. No one was signing up to join the crazies… Well, until G.W. invades Iraq – a country that was no threat to us – and killed thousands of civilians. Our military cliams to have advanced technology, able to hit a barn door off a garage from a plane a mile away, and yet they destroyed Iraq, and are now funneling our tax money away from healthcare for American citizens, repair to our infrastructure, education and student loans, food for the poor, etc. in order to fund contracts to Dick Cheney’s interests to rebuild Iraq.
As a result of this, Al Qaeda has grown stronger. They no longer think Osama is a wingnut for attacking the U.S. in a manner that goes against their Islamic faith, but they now believe that G.W, is the wingnut who has decalred jihad upon them. And they are joining up in droves to fight.
Those of you who are Irish should understand this mindset all too well from the history of your ancestors. The only reason the IRA gained popularity, was because the British use of violence on Bloody Sunday taught the Catholic Irish people that violence was their only recourse. It is no different here.
And your blind patriotic faith to the man igniting this chaos in the middle east is not in your own best interest. It is not making you more safe. It has made you less safe. Less safe because people are now joining Al Qaeda in droves in teh name of self-protection.
Violence does not end violence. Just as fire does not fight fire. You want to be safer? Violence is not the answer. And a blind allegiance to Bush simply because he is a Republican Christian is blinding you to the reality we live in. Just consider it from our perspective. It’s the only way you’ll understand why we want the violence to end.
January 21st, 2006 at 8:51 amGood post Unbelievable…..Blessings
January 21st, 2006 at 9:42 am#90 lol
January 21st, 2006 at 9:51 amIf the only citizens they want to spy on are terrorists, why have they not purged from their data bases all the info they’ve collected from innocent Americans?
Do I think the FBI has nothing better to do? You bet. And so do several FBI investigators who said chasing down thousands of leads which result in dead ends is drawing their resources from more productive searches.
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/cat_you_can_run.html
And I have a question which I’ve so far posted 4 times on TP regarding warrantless wiretapping, and have yet to get a response: Can you tell me why Bush refuses to seek warrants within the 72-hours granted him? And saying because he might have been turned down doesn’t cut it. If he has no problem defying the law by not getting warrants, he would have no trouble defying it if the warrants were refused.
January 21st, 2006 at 10:40 amThe role of the Gestapo was to investigate and combat “all tendencies dangerous to the State.” It had the authority to investigate treason, espionage and sabotage cases, and cases of criminal attacks on the Nazi Party and on Germany.
The law had been changed in such a way that the Gestapo’s actions were not subject to judicial review. Nazi jurist Dr. Werner Best stated, “As long as the [Gestapo] … carries out the will of the leadership, it is acting legally.” The Gestapo was specifically exempted from responsibility to administrative courts, where citizens normally could sue the state to conform to laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo
hmmm….
January 21st, 2006 at 10:53 amYes, I give the Bush Administration and our military credit for knowing to go after the Taliban
Comment by unbelievable #147
unbelievable,
Many things you post have good reasoning behind them, but here I differ with you…
The Taliban (a sovereign government in a sovereign state) asked what any sovereign government would under rules of extradition and law:
“Show us proof that bin Laden was behind 9/11 and we will deliver him (and those responsible to you)…
Hell, just a few months before 9/11 Bushiva gave $43 million to the Taliban for access rights for a pipeline through that nation, the Taliban howerver balked and awarded the rights to Venezuela… a few months afterwards (9/11) and the Taliban was attacked…
I beg to differ with ALL of you who say Afghanistan required “regime change” and an all out military assault…
The most savvy Delta Force (black ops) rangers will tell you that a small well equipped, well placed force could have taken Osama out…
In other words, it (9/11) WAS a “law enforcement” issue…
Now look at us 4 years later, like Osama said in his latest communique, “we (the mujahedin) fought the Soviets with inferior weapons for ten years and bled them dry economically,”
What do you think they’re doing to us inIraq, and Afghanistan?
…and now you want to add Iran and Syria?
…fu*k the Gulf Coast and all their problems, we’ve got to SAVE the ME (for the security of Israel, oil, and future dynasties of right wing corporate raiders)…
January 21st, 2006 at 11:23 amThe lies about this include claiming it’s domestic spying, when it is terrorist monitoring. As well, the left is claiming that this is more vast than it really is.
Comment by Gary Ruppert — January 20, 2006 @ 4:59 pm
Gary, when the government says they’re only using their powers on terrorists, do you believe them? Do you trust them do only use their powers to protect us? I certainly don’t.
Comment by Fight the power #136
Fight the power,
Gary AKA Scary Pookbutt is so far gone- a Bushiva disciple and worshipper so enamored of his gods Bushiva and L’il Dick that …
…If Bushiva took a sh*t and told Gary (and his inbred brethren and sisters) that it was “butter”, they’d all grab biscuits and gleefully spread Bushiva’s excrement thereupon, and partake of it heartily in huge portions…
January 21st, 2006 at 11:30 amThanks Sharon… I just don’t think they understand the big picture, or what their loyalty to an ideology is doing to the world. Sad.
January 21st, 2006 at 11:41 amBush is defending his reputation against the lies.
Comment by Gary Ruppert #55
Scary Pookbutt,
Let’s see what reputation that’d be:
1) his stellar reputation as a cheerleader, college “affirmative actions”(legacy) entrant and graduate, coke head, boozer, spoiled brat…
2) a Vietnam era Texas ANG pilot (with daddy’s influence peddling)/deserter…and alcoholic…
3) failed businessman-Harkin Energy- inside trader…
4) politician-turned Christian-turned governor-over a failed state (50th in education, healthcare etc…)
5) two time president (under dubious, suspicious electoral shenanigans)…usurper of the Constitution/mini-tyrant, would be-dictator, traitor…
Is THAT the reputation you were referring to?
January 21st, 2006 at 11:45 amBig Papa,
I’m not a big fan of big Federal Government. They are too detached from the very people they claim to ’serve’, and as a result, the positions themselves tend to draw egocentric, megalomaniacal control freaks with delusions of grandeur. I hold this true on both sides of the political fence. I think all of our Representatives – Democrat and Republican both – have helped create this cesspool in which we are presently being forced to swim. I just think the Democrats are less dangerous in general, and tend to vote for them when necessary. I prefer to vote Green until a valid Humanist Party exists…
That said, I agree with you that the Federal government and teh Federal government alone got us into this mess, and that 9/11 was purely and simply a result of their actions. Period. I hold Federal government 110% accountable for the 9/11 attack.
I am a pacifist. I believe violence does not solve anything 99% of the time. In rare cases when the need arises, it is simply in response to an assault by people who cannot be reasoned with, and therefore need to be eliminated from the equation. Simply ignoring Osama bin Laden, who has claimed responsibility for the attacks, would not have ended the problem. He vowed to do it again. He’s a bully, a sociopath and a criminal.
While the actions taken were certainly inferior to what they should have been, I do not believe that any other President would have handled retaliation that much differently. So, in that regard, I cannot fault the Administration from doing what the people wanted. This in itself, and on its own, has not been a part of the problem we currently face. Had we stopped here, and done a better job in the mission, I do not believe the situation would be where it is now. The quagmire in which we are embroiled is the result of the invasion of Iraq. And so, in my point to the trolls, I had to isolate Iraq by removing 9/11 and the ensuing battle from the equation. Maybe I over simplified it, but I was intentionally trying to be concise for a reason. If that makes sense… :)
I can and frequently do fault ths Administation for everything after that initial period. They are a menace and a danger to our well-being and must be removed from office. The fact that the Republicans in Congress and Senate refuse to represent We The People is an outrage and an immoral act. They should all be tried for treason as far as I am concerned… and, if they continue on this current path, I have a feeling that they would have wished that only treason had been their consequences…
January 21st, 2006 at 12:02 pmI beg to differ with ALL of you who say Afghanistan required “regime change†and an all out military assault…
The most savvy Delta Force (black ops) rangers will tell you that a small well equipped, well placed force could have taken Osama out…
In other words, it (9/11) WAS a “law enforcement†issue…
Now look at us 4 years later, like Osama said in his latest communique, “we (the mujahedin) fought the Soviets with inferior weapons for ten years and bled them dry economically,â€
What do you think they’re doing to us inIraq, and Afghanistan?
Big Papa,
Agreed. Although they made a bigger bu tinferior production out of what should have been a simple solution, the general idea is that military action was required against a sociopath like Osama. The fact that he remains at large is disconcerting. I believe he, and Al Qaeda could attack us again. Bush bungled that for sure – but I still think he pursued the right intention… just horribly executed. If that at all makes sense.
January 21st, 2006 at 12:12 pmUnbelievable, you said “I am a pacifist. I believe violence does not solve anything 99% of the time.” Apparently the government thinks you are a threat to national security:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/columnists/sfl-phoward20dec20,0,1450122.column?coll=sfla-news-col
January 21st, 2006 at 12:13 pmAnd just who are these Enemies of the State?
They’re all of eight people, including a couple of Quakers and a 79-year-old grandmother, said spokesman Richard Hersh, of Boca Raton. He’s 59 and disabled from a painful nerve disease that often forces him to use a wheelchair.
Now you know why the military hasn’t found Osama bin Laden. They’ve been busy infiltrating the meetings of this peace group.
Lily,
It would be funny were it not so frightening. As soon as we give him permission to build The Wall along our borders, history will have officially begun to repeat itself…
January 21st, 2006 at 12:56 pmMore great posts Unbelievable and progressives. We agree on a lot of issues. Watched the hearings on the wire tapping yesterday on C-Span. Had read all about it a week before, was nice to see the sworn testomony of the people involved. This administration, almost all of the right wing and a few on the left make me mad as hell….Blessings
January 21st, 2006 at 1:45 pmSharon,
Thanks… But it seems like this should be common sense and not need pointing out to the trolls, you know?
So, based on what you saw on the hearings, what do you think will happen? Is it obvious (not that that seems to matter these days), or more smoke and mirrors from people trying to save themselves at all costs?
January 21st, 2006 at 2:00 pmGary Ruppert, I don’t respond to the radical right much any more, but just this one time I will. You are wrong about Bush. Most people form conclusions based on facts. Bush on the other hand makes up conclusions based on his own, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld, Rice and all the rest of his gangs lies to serve their own ajenda. That ajenda being total power, domination and wealth for the few and control of the masses here and around the world. That is why he has to constantly lie to create a semblance of truth. Let us also not forget they are the most evil and pretend to be christians….May I also remind you, you are not extremely welthy so are in the same boat as all the rest of us. How do I know this, you are here. One other thing I know, you are being used and are part of the problem. I choose to be part of the solution which is to save our constitution, our country and all her people..Blessings
January 21st, 2006 at 2:08 pmUnbelievable, sadly we were blind sided by a bunch of liers and thieves. Well not me personaly but our country. I knew all about this bunch before the 2000 election. I had read all the back ground on Bush, Cheney and Rummy. And remembered even more. Lot’s I lived through like the rest of the posters here. I had met Gore at a lunchon in Missoula when he and Clinton were running and he is not the man the radical right portray him to be. But during his campaign he came off as soft, which he is not, he also is far smarter than the entire Bush adm. combined. He would be a good leader. But then the election was stolen from him. He should of fought harder maybe. Kerry may have been good but like any one opossing this bunch they are buried with lies and bought media crap. To get back to you question…..We are being controled by this administration, while they strip our freedoms and rights. They are accomplishing their take over through paid media, created fear, relegion, big business and corrupt lobbiest. There is a mass of things going on at once. Bush doesn’t bother with polls cause he has all the spyinng working for him. I think their plan is to declare more martial law and building fences around us. They have already made the world mad at us, well yah, he is the terrorest. Evil to the worst degree. Bush himself is nothing but a evil, spoiled drunk. It’s all the power behind him and helping him that has accomplished this take over. It was accomplished easily by apathetic, lazy, sound bite induced masses here in the USA. As long as the majority of the public can have their cell phones to the ear whild driving their huge gas guzzlers down the road they are happy. Most don’t know Pombo and Bush are trying to cut it, kill it or drill it to all our parks and wilderness. Most don’t care about nature, balance, true clean air and water. They think they can buy a bottle of anything in the store on a credit card. Most don’t care peaceful activests are being targeted and wire tapped, some probably jailed with out representation and held in some obscure place not to be seen. Untill the masses can be made aware or are personaly involved they will not even vote. We are in the worst times I have ever seen in my 64 years on this planet and the majority are oblivious. I am mad as hell and spend a lot of time every day trying to make a posative diffrence to save our country, enviroment and people. One would think after 9/11 on the Bush watch and most certanly after Katrina and his 4 day lag time the public would be up in arms but no, not yet.. Please forgive the length and poor spelling……Blessings
January 21st, 2006 at 2:56 pmSharon,
It is always nice to hear what you have to say – long or short :).
What’s interesting to me is how I came to certain conclusions on my own, and then came here and found many people who had come to the same conclusions on tehir own. The trolls just regurgitate talking points, so I don’t count that. Seems to big of a coincidence for people from various walks of life, age, and backgrounds to have come to the same conclusions about this Administration by accident. And it’s all very alarming.
I’ve begun to consider what’s next. At what point is it smart to leave? Because as much as they tout that this is the most free nation on earth, I have not felt free in quite a long time. No where even close.
They are putting too much in place to do exactly what you’ve said – martial law. And they have 3 years left to do an awful lot of damage. I just don’t know what it will take to wake people up. I send emails regularly to my friends, but few people ever have any responses – and most of these are pretty active folks. If they don’t care – then who does? Just us “left-wing crazies”, I’m sure :).
January 21st, 2006 at 3:19 pmUnbelievable – I’m sure where ever you choose to go they will welcome you with open arms. So I don’t mistakenly view your argument as “left wing regurgitated tripe” please explain how you “feel” less free today than six years ago. Maybe you’re in the grips of a vicious paranoia – but remember, feelings are subjective.
January 21st, 2006 at 4:43 pmUnbelievable, I have been a bleeding heart libral all my life, raised by my great grand mother who was a staunch Democrat back when they were the working class and the Repubs were big business and rich class. A drop out in school by poor choices and in the working class and self educated every sence. I was not able to be as active as I wanted untill I retired. Working every day and caring for a family takes the starch out of people and they become worn out, apathetic and lazy. I know I was there. I believe most of our representatives are use to doing what they want once they get in office and are not prepaired to truly listen to their constituants. Many are there to pad their pockets, further their careers and become little dictators them selves. This is now the worst administration I have ever seen and in the left, right and center of them all is graft, greed and corruption. There are a few good ones in office right now but like me they may be thinking, it has to get a lot worse before the public pays attention. I thought they would wake up with the 9/11 hearings and many other things like torture ect; then Katrina, but no, it is as if they are sleep walking through life. One of the worst thing is how this bunch has devided this country and feed them all this relegious b.s..This war is a preplaned lie. I believe Bush wanted to do this before he even ran for office. All these things are big business.I also believe they allowed 9/11 or helped to cause it to get the publics approval for the war. Bush would say anything but not go after a BenLauden or a Saudi prince. The Saudi’s supported and financed 9/11 and now walks in the Bush garden holding hands. After 9/11 the planes flew all these un questioned people back home. Every day this bunch pulls something obvious and blatent and tons of picking our pockets, lieing and passing dreadful bills that are breaking the back of our enviroment or our country. It may be China,Japan or one of the many countries that are holding our debt will call in their markers, or, our stock market will hiccup, econemy and job situation will get realy bad and then the masses will wake up. I know I hate to see more losses in Iraq, but this bunch want war, it’s big business. I think it is time to try and draft Murtah for president and Molly Ivens for V.P or people like that. Ones with the moxi of war and how to stop it and insight to the econemy and rebuilding our country. Untill we can Impech and jail this bunch we are in for a dreadful time. I love my country and what it was and what it can be again. If we are not strong enough to fight the enemy with in we don’t deserve to get it all back. I am a peace activest, except in self defence. Pre emptive is not a choice and we can not occupy, control or over rule other countries. First we have to fix and take care of our own…Just a lot of my opinion’s. I don’t have any friends anymore that don’t think the way I do, we all exchange ideas and work hard for change…A very discouriging time but worth the big prize, saving our constitution, country, her people, freedon and the enviroment…Blessings
January 21st, 2006 at 4:44 pm“Unbelievable – I’m sure where ever you choose to go they will welcome you with open arms. So I don’t mistakenly view your argument as “left wing regurgitated tripe†please explain how you “feel†less free today than six years ago. Maybe you’re in the grips of a vicious paranoia – but remember, feelings are subjective. mighty aphrodite”
Interesting you use the word ‘feel’, because fear and feelings are what paralyze the rightwing into doing paranoid and ridiculous things. There are lots of ways americans are less free than 6 years ago, but how they ‘feel’ about these loss of freedoms are less important than their actual loss. I’m so sorry for you that you let your ‘feelings’ dictate your willingness to forgoe civil liberties and american values. Poor thing, I forgive you for that weakness and cowardice – and you really should try to get a grip. Heck rightwing folks now call vandals terrorists – that’s just really sad.
There were 10 times as many deaths from handguns last year than all attacks by terrorists against americans combined. Are you willing to give up your right to handguns to be more safe? I recommend republicans gain some perspective – because you sound like scared little children instead of the mature adults I would like to hear from an ‘opposition’ perspective.
January 21st, 2006 at 6:45 pmUnbelievable – I’m sure where ever you choose to go they will welcome you with open arms. So I don’t mistakenly view your argument as “left wing regurgitated tripe†please explain how you “feel†less free today than six years ago. Maybe you’re in the grips of a vicious paranoia – but remember, feelings are subjective.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 21, 2006 @ 4:43 pm
If I were paranoid, I certainly wouldn’t be here…
The forced so-called morality of your holier-than-thou party who ironically has not one ethical bone among them, for starters, has assured that I am less free than I was six years ago. Their war mongering makes me less free. Their fear tactics and paranoia propaganda makes me less free. As well as the nooses of their racism, increase of poverty, burden of taxes onto the middle class, reduction of health care, imposed Patriotism, spying on innocent citizens, talk of a Wall along our borders, guilty until proven innocent perspective, etc.
If you don’t get that… you should take a few less valium. As much medication as you are on, I doubt you feel much of anything.
January 21st, 2006 at 7:59 pmRightSplat (or if you prefer RyANNe) – as much as I diagree with most of the views of “unbelieved” I think he/she is capable of discussing questions re: his/her own postings without your “assistance” – but nice of you to be soooo “helpful”. He/she discussed “feeling” less free. But making assumptions is something you do well, so….
January 21st, 2006 at 8:06 pmSharon,
I watched my parents be the ‘good citizens’ that they were told to be. They did what they were told by government, bosses and priests, and they followed tradition – got married, had kids, worked hard at their blue-collar jobs, bought a house and all the other things that they were ’supposed’ to do. My mom just turned 62 this week, and my dad will have been dead 12 years as of next week. He had cancer and died at 59. I would never use the word ‘happy’ to describe their lives. And as a result, I didn’t go down that path. I went to college, focused on a career (architecture) and traveled. I gave up the career last year when I grew a conscious, realized I was part of the system I hated, and decided to become a teacher. I can’t imagine how exhaustive your life must have been with two full-time jobs. But I watch my friends, getting married, buying houses, having children, and working hard for unappreciative people who under pay them and treat them like furniture. I see how tired they are in their thirties and fourties. And I think – this is not the Great American Dream. This is NOT freedom.
I agree with you. People are so burned out tha tthey don’t have time to stay informed or care. And I think shifting the financial burden onto the middle class is part of their neocon strategy to keep it that way. Keep us isolated, ignorant and exhausted, and then they can get away with anything and everything. And so far, it’s working…
I don’t know what we can do about it. I think you are right that it has to get worst before anyone notices. And that’s too bad… Sad…
January 21st, 2006 at 8:15 pmRightSplat (or if you prefer RyANNe)
Not Ryan. Can’t you tell? If anyone is Ryan it’s… well, I’ll leave that alone…
- as much as I diagree with most of the views of “unbelieved†I think he/she is capable of discussing questions re: his/her own postings without your “assistance†– but nice of you to be soooo “helpfulâ€.
I appreciate input from my fellow liberals. That’s what we liberals do, you know – support one another. I’m not self-absorbed, nor do I think I have all the answers. And, unlike you, I do not take his input to mean or infer that I am incapable. Neither should you – considering you interjected into a conversation I was having with Sharon…
He/she discussed “feeling†less free. But making assumptions is something you do well, so….
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 21, 2006 @ 8:06 pm
I didn’t mean it in the sense you implied, and that was what RP was picking up on… But I don’t expect you to get it.
January 21st, 2006 at 8:22 pm“The forced so-called morality of your holier-than-thou party who ironically has not one ethical bone among them, for starters, has assured that I am less free than I was six years ago.” – unbelieved
*****I apologize!!!!!I did not know that the moral wing of the right wing had started forcing people to have sex only with opposite sex spouses. As for picking up pornography, just click “pay per view” or put a bag on your head and run into the XXX bookstore. Believe me, we could care less if you cheat on your husband/wife with a co-worker, pool boy or pet of your choice – just don’t tell us all about it in a “tell all” book. If you’re homosexual – who cares? Just don’t give me “TMI” – that goes if you’re heterosexual. Remember, it’s none of my business.
“Nooses of racism”. By who??? Dems who define EVERYTHING along racial lines?? Dems who throw Oreo cookies at conservative blacks for the unpardonable “sin” of holding a different point of view??
A Wall across our border to keep illegal people out makes you feel less free?? (The vast majority of illegal aliens are from Mexico or Central America, but if your statistics include illegal aliens from Canada, Ireland, the UK, and the Middle East I will have a better grasp of your “feelings”.) Please explain that – more points will be given for your answer should you reside within 100 miles of the US/Mexico border. Double points will be given if you know the percentage of births to illegal mothers at US hospitals, the form of payment used at those hospitals to pay balances, and the percentage of the US prison/jail population who are illegal aliens.
“imposed Patriotism”??? Don’t salute our flag and please don’t get a lump in your throat when the “Star Spangled Banner” is played. Laugh at the flags on our cars. Believe the ACLU, John Kerry and Howard Dean – we don’t care.
I am sorry to say – you seem to enjoy a perceived “victim” status. (”How can I enjoy my dinner while there are so many starving people in …fill in the country…??”) So many libs enjoy “being” beaten down and wear the mantle of the perpetually “downtrodden”.
Speaking of dinner, Mr. Aphrodite is reminding me of a dinner date – have a good evening!!!
January 21st, 2006 at 8:43 pmso slightly roundite is that why the repug controlled congress sees fit to hold hearings on streaching the censorship of the free TV to cable and satelite which I pay for, I mean the largest corruption scandal involving the congress to include membership of the leadership and members of the admistration doesn’t seem to require hearings but those hearings couldn’t be used by Brent Bozell, who testified how horrible all the TV is, in order to raise more contributions, and YES he was asking for MORE government controll,
I thought the repug party was against MORE regulation of any industry.
Let market forces work, but when the people of this country choose to purchase or watch programs Mr. Bozell cries that some sort of protection is necessary;
IN CASE HIS CHILDREN ARE IN A HOUSE OR A NEIGHBOR THEY MIGHT SEE SOMETHING HE DOES NOT WANT THEM TO SEE,
he wants to censor his neighbors in the name of protecting his children and censorship is the government taking part of our freedom away,
Racism comes in many forms, whether in the responce of crisis, actions that we take against peoples overseas, by the simple fact that darfour doesn’t rate a single speach from the leader of the free world where Genocide is occurring on a scale that could make Sadam envious, but no efforts from this country to get involved might make one believe racism exists, or the laws regarding the illegal substances derived from the coca plant imported into this country, in the form most often found in subburbs one penalty the same exact amount by weight found in a form common in the innercity a substantialy larger penalty. even the Plantation remare that the wingnut press jumped on politilly forgetting the townhall.com, the national review, the wall street journal, rush limbaugh show, newsmax, washington times, and or course Bob Novak, all used the term. but since a democrat in fromt of a primarily african-american group the shrill of the right had to coverup the aplause of the crowd, sorta like they don’t know whats good for them because they didn’t protest when she did it so we will protest for the they just don’t understand, poor dears. the wall comment well it’s ok to tell people from a country hat if you put one foot on our soil you automatically get accepted but since we don’t want to replace the government of mexico sorry not required please stay home. I would say False patriotism, because waving the flag, listening to a song or stickers on your car are not the limits of patriotism but people who have been there and do know what they are talking about like former Marine and current Congressman Murtha’s disagreement with the current Illogical (acording to con murtha) course in Iraq and his testicular fortitude to stand up and express his viuews are also patriotic.. patriotism require3s that the people of this country get involved because an imformed electorate will demand policies that are actually good for this country not policies that further an idealised political goal which the does not necessarily mesh with facts on the ground. Saying we are making progress or the end is near or the insurgents are at the end of their rope didn’t work for Johnson in 67-68 and it doesn’t work any better in Iraq now, One maxium of a military plan is that the plan only works until you meet the enemy on the battle field then the enemy has alot to say about the direction the plan must move, unfortunatrely the current plan inb iraq attempts to leave the true effect of the true enemy out, thus Mr. Murtha’s patriotic statement that the stay the course is not working. Sorta the same as When Brownie’s plan was exposed by Katrina and it toolk the leaders of this country almost two weeks to see that they were failing. Sorry slightly roundite, but patriotism has many other much more relevant forms than waving a piece of colored cloth or listening to a song, a patriot defends the constution the real fabric that binds this nation , not all the little pieces of cloth that you all confuse with it by the way I’m kinda interested in which wingnut will jump for my “PATROITIC SLIGHT AGAINST THE FLAG AND NMATIONAL ANTHEM”
January 21st, 2006 at 10:16 pmI notice that the whole spying-on-Americans thing has now become an “NSA program” in the regular media, and to some extent, on the Internet as well.
I am wondering when it was that anyone, in any media, thought of Watergate as the “Watergate Program”. Or I am I missing a beat here?
On the face of it, this NSA spying is illegal. I am quite certain lawyers can find nooks and crannies that will cause ponderation (a wonderful way to drive up those hourly fees) but for the rest of us, who still live in a universe dominated by things like the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, this is just not legal. I don’t recall at any time throughout Watergate (which did involve a midnight burglary gone awry, among many other things) that it was ever referred to as the “Watergate Program”.
So why is this now the “NSA Program”? Like it’s been passed by Congress, signed into law and all we’re arguing about is implementation, like the Medicare Pard D, which tells you everything you need to know about the bozos running the place today? [Sorry; last sentence out of control.]
anita
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:49 amGood posts Unbelievable, Clif and Anita. All good points. Your also correct in my view of whats going on. I don’t want to appear that I am down trodden or over whelmed by the crap that this administration is pulling, because I am not. I do get discouraged tho and mad as hell that the majority don’t seem to get what’s happening to our country and the world because of their misdeeds, and that when they do see what is happening like the war and Katrina they do nothing. In my view a true patriot stands up and is vocal when our administration is wrong and it doesn’t mean putting a made in china magnet supporting our troops on a bumper of your car or putting a little flag on the antena. Right now my old rig is sporting Impeach Bush…Blessings
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:54 am*****I apologize!!!!!I did not know that the moral wing of the right wing had started forcing people to have sex only with opposite sex spouses.
Didn’t you vote in 2004? Or take you blind fold off? My gay friends cannot marry in this country unless they move to Massachusetts. Prior to your uncle taking office, Magda, they were on the brink of having civil unions at least – but now even that is suspicious for them, so they have to do it in secrecy. But Peeping George wants a Constitutional amendment barring them from having the kind of commitment to one another that they grant to people like us who are just fortunately enough to be attracted to the ‘right’ gender. That’s not freedom for all.
As for picking up pornography…
Interesting that you’ve given it this much thought, and have conceived an alternative… I haven’t. It wasn’t even on my list. Very few women are into pornography. So, if anything, your gender, not mine, is suspicious here.
Dems who throw Oreo cookies at conservative blacks for the unpardonable “sin†of holding a different point of view??
Only a bigot would see it that way.
A Wall across our border to keep illegal people out makes you feel less free?? (The vast majority of illegal aliens are from Mexico or Central America, but if your statistics include illegal aliens from Canada, Ireland, the UK, and the Middle East I will have a better grasp of your “feelingsâ€.)
Only a paranoid megalomaniac would see it this way. Stop buying the propaganda and do some thinking.
And before you condone that Wall, you should go read up on East German history at the time that the Soviets occupied one side of Berlin – specifically October 1941 thru March 1989…
Please explain that – more points will be given for your answer should you reside within 100 miles of the US/Mexico border. Double points will be given if you know the percentage of births to illegal mothers at US hospitals, the form of payment used at those hospitals to pay balances, and the percentage of the US prison/jail population who are illegal aliens.
I can do without your condescention… the vitriolic ranting is already obnoxious enough as it is…
You neurotic rich people will make up anything to hold on to another penny that your accountant maneuvered out of the pockets of the working tax payers. Want to look at real financial drains to our economy? Look at how we are spending $360 billion dollars on a military that is overkill. The country in second place only spends $52 million on national defense. You’d rather spend money on WMD than people, eh? Figures…
“imposed Patriotismâ€??? Don’t salute our flag and please don’t get a lump in your throat when the “Star Spangled Banner†is played. Laugh at the flags on our cars. Believe the ACLU, John Kerry and Howard Dean – we don’t care.
If you didn’t care, you wouldn’t have noticed. You care. You care so much you probably grind your teeth at night over it.
I am sorry to say – you seem to enjoy a perceived “victim†status. (â€How can I enjoy my dinner while there are so many starving people in …fill in the country…??â€) So many libs enjoy “being†beaten down and wear the mantle of the perpetually “downtroddenâ€.
A victim? Where do you extract that nonsense? Or is that just what you tell yourself to feel better about eating and then force vomitting that food that belongs to some starving child?
I am no victim. Aside from being female and Atheist, I have no other minority traits. I just don’t like where this country is headed because I have read history books. But from your behavior, you either think you are one, or you would like to be so it gets you off the hook for personal responsibility. You are truly pathetic and delusional. No wonder I only read your posts on accident…
January 22nd, 2006 at 8:40 amIn my view a true patriot stands up and is vocal when our administration is wrong and it doesn’t mean putting a made in china magnet supporting our troops on a bumper of your car or putting a little flag on the antena. Right now my old rig is sporting Impeach Bush…Blessings
Comment by Sharon Cox — January 22, 2006 @ 3:54 am
Sharon,
Touche’!
Your view is also that of the founding fathers… It’s actually the neocons stepping all over our Constitution who are essentially unAmerican.
“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive.”
“The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object.”
“Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.”
-Thomas Jefferson
January 22nd, 2006 at 8:47 am“Nooses of racism”. By who??? Dems who throw Oreo cookies at conservative blacks for the unpardonable “sin” of holding a different point of view??
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 21, 2006 @ 8:43 pm
This story is as phony as the German werewolves post-WWII, and it has also been debunked. You should really double-check your facts before you post things like these.
Media Matters did a research on the matter, and this is what they found:
[T]he first reporting of anything resembling the purported cookie-throwing incident came five days after the debate, on October 1, 2002, when the Sun itself reported that “Ehrlich spokesman Paul Schurick said Democrats in the audience … distributed Oreo cookies” at the gubernatorial debate. The report made no mention of anyone throwing cookies at Steele.
Milking a story for all it’s worth
Here is some more information:
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:35 amThe Daily Howler – Did Michael Steele get pelted with cookies?
I’m not a big fan of big Federal Government. They are too detached from the very people they claim to ’serve’, and as a result, the positions themselves tend to draw egocentric, megalomaniacal control freaks with delusions of grandeur. I hold this true on both sides of the political fence. I think all of our Representatives – Democrat and Republican both – have helped create this cesspool in which we are presently being forced to swim. I just think the Democrats are less dangerous in general, and tend to vote for them when necessary. I prefer to vote Green until a valid Humanist Party exists.
Comment by unbelievable #156
Many who go to congress probably do so with “good intentions” for their constituencies, but upon arrival find it to be the Tom DeLay, Duke Cunningham, John McCain and Jack Abramoff pit of political viperiism…pay-to-play-to-get-paid…
————————————————————
Simply ignoring Osama bin Laden, who has claimed responsibility for the attacks, would not have ended the problem. He vowed to do it again. He’s a bully, a sociopath and a criminal.
Comment by unbelievable #156
bin Laden is a “product” of the CIA, U.S. government programs to “support the enemy of my enemy who is my friend-’til they outlive their usefulness” Cold War subterfuge…
…bin Laden is no more a ” bully, criminal and sociopath” as L’il Dick Cheney and Bushiva…at least Osama had a legitimate gripe…
…again people like yourself need to read up on economic policies by the IMF, WTO, and World Bank (largely run by the U.S. and Israel)…the draconian measures they put on third world countries who seek loans to build life saving wells or irrigation systems. How, to pay back those loans means turning over their vital natural resources and opening their currencies to rampant speculation by criminal, racist, and scummy foreign (speculators)/ corporate interests…that in effect bankrupt the countries and make paybacks of those loans literally impossible…thus perpetuating poverty in their countries…
Look at what’s happening in South America…”socialist” left leaning governments- that are anti-Bushite-gringo-corporate-capitalist- raiders- are being elected all over that continent and making economic pacts with China, N.Korea, Africa and Russia…
…Why do you think every time the WTO or IMF hold those summits there are HUGE violent demonstrations?
…Why are Bono and others active in “debt relief” efforts?
…as for bin Laden his is mostly a religious gripe where as a “good Muslim” he believes it his duty to expel the “infidels” (American corporate pirates and military) from his religion’s “holy lands”, as well as support for the Palestinians against the zionists…
…Bushites I don’t have to elaborate for you WHY they want to continue this war…
…Every time I see these Al cracka senators and congresspeople talking about terrorists and mass murderers, not being able to negotiate with terrorists it makes me physically ill, knowing what I know about American racism and “terrorism” (economic and military) abroad and at home…
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:12 pmMay I also remind you, you are not extremely welthy so are in the same boat as all the rest of us. How do I know this, you are here. One other thing I know, you are being used and are part of the problem. I choose to be part of the solution which is to save our constitution, our country and all her people..Blessings
Comment by Sharon Cox #162
Tell him again honey, only this time you may need to use pictures…
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:19 pmBig Papa,
I think you’ve misunderstood. I have read up on many things, including the economic policies (or agendas, really) you’ve referenced. It’s why I went from being a moderate conservative to being a raging liberal. I just am not an absolutist. I believe everyone is good and bad – not either/or. And though completely inept in his efforts, I do believe that going after Al Qaeda after 9/11 was the appropriate course of action for Bush to take. I suppose we can diagree on that triviality and move on to the big picture of getting these people out of office for the last 5 years of fascist, theocratic and militant devistation to our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:29 pmComment by unbelievable #182
No, I’ve not misunderstood…
We simply agree to disagree on some “minor” points perhaps…
I apologize for the insolent (on my part) characterization of you as being “unread” on the economic policies of our government and their racist, greedy global co-conspirators..
Your resistance to absolutism is commendable, and one we should all strive to emulate…
I suppose it’s just the warrior in me that makes my rhetoric so confrontational and volatile in this troubling time in our country…
…this situation with the criminal Bushite junta and his worshippers and co-conspirators is not politics as usual, hopefully there is no disagreement btwn us there?…
January 22nd, 2006 at 7:46 pmSo Herr Bush our Fuhrer is going to NSA headquarters on Wednesday to tell the director > “You’re doing a heck of a job” > lol.
January 22nd, 2006 at 8:00 pm…this situation with the criminal Bushite junta and his worshippers and co-conspirators is not politics as usual, hopefully there is no disagreement btwn us there?…
Comment by big papa — January 22, 2006 @ 7:46 pm
I understand. Of course not. That’s the thing I prefer about being a liberal – we can disagree and still be friends :). Though I’m not convinced that we disagree – probably an issue of semantics…
Maybe it’s time to start endorsing Independents in 2006. If enough I’s could take enough seats, there would be not true majority party, and perhaps that would be a start in humbling the pigs at the trough… I don’t know. I justthink we have to do something severe. Anti-incumbent or third party Parlimentary kind of severe…
January 22nd, 2006 at 8:21 pmMaybe it’s time to start endorsing Independents in 2006. If enough I’s could take enough seats, there would be not true majority party, and perhaps that would be a start in humbling the pigs at the trough… I don’t know. I justthink we have to do something severe. Anti-incumbent or third party Parlimentary kind of severe…
Comment by unbelievable #185
unbelievable,
While I don’t disagree that this two-party system is broken, I am distrustful of “Indies” as i’ve seen them referred to…
I’m an avid watcher of C-Span, and all too often many “Indies” sound too da*n close to republiscum/”conservatives” for comfort…
I don’t trust it… (them)!
January 23rd, 2006 at 9:32 amSorry Big Papa, no pictures. I’m not important enough to have any pictures by myself or with someone. I am just a little old worker bee trying to do all I can to save our country and our constitution. I sign all the patitions and join in on all the big organizations that are working for my same intrests. Besides the constitutional issues I work a lot with enviromental and wildlife sites as well…Blessings
January 23rd, 2006 at 9:49 amSorry Big Papa, no pictures. I’m not important enough to have any pictures by myself or with someone.
Comment by Sharon Cox #187
Sharon,
You’re the most important person in the world, if you choose to be…
So choose to be, cause you’re the ONLY YOU you’ve got…
those blessings back at ya (x’s 10)…
January 23rd, 2006 at 8:46 pm