Schieffer: Kerry and Bin Laden Expressed “Almost The Same” Sentiments
By on Jan 21st, 2006 at 11:29 pm
Schieffer: Kerry and Bin Laden Expressed “Almost The Same” Sentiments
Today, CBS’ Bob Schieffer borrowed a page from Chris Matthews. NewsMax reports:
Asked whether bin Laden had expressed “almost the same” sentiments that [Sen. John] Kerry did during an appearance on [Bob] Schieffer’s “Face the Nation” broadcast in December, the CBS anchorman told WABC Radio’s Mark Simone: “Well, he did. That’s exactly right.”
Neither Schieffer nor Matthews bill themselves as right-wing propagandists. They are, by their own descriptions, journalists. Yet, over the past few days, they have said things about prominent liberals that would make Karl Rove blush.
You can contact Bob Schieffer here and Chris Matthews here. Please be polite.
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I think it is critical the intention of the person making this statement.
Bob Schieffer is no friend of the Bush admin as far as I know, and I don’t think he was saying we have the same ideals.
I think what he and others are trying to say Bin Laden is tuned in to current right and left wing talking points, and is trying to play the right off the left by increasing the polarization between the two over the patriotisim issue.
And I think its working. I think much of the extreme right has picked it up as comparing our goals and talking points to those of Bin Laden. They have made accusations, and now the left is responding to any mention of the similarites as hubris.
But in truth, we need to recognize and acknowledge that Bin Laden is trying to divide us by echoing talking points he heard in Kerry’s speech, and respond accordingly.
January 21st, 2006 at 11:44 pmWhat ever happened to real journalists who dug for the truth and provided it to their readers and viewers without offering their biased opinions? I’d sure like to see real news coverage that was based on fact and backed up with evidence and not talking points that have been passed around.
January 21st, 2006 at 11:52 pmBut to anyone thinking that Bin Laden trying to sound like a democrat speaks ill in anyway of democrats, consider this.
Bin Laden releases how many tapes? 1 a year?
So one could conclude that the ones he does release every year or so, are carefully scripted and planned.
He says nothing that does not have a purpose.
And what you think he is saying, is exactly what he wants you to think he is saying.
He is playing you guys like a cheap plastic banjo.
January 21st, 2006 at 11:54 pmThanks for the thoughtful comment WORFEUS
The point here is not the Schieffer is trying to carry the water for the right-wing. Frankly, I don’t know what he is thinking.
But the appropriate response to this in my view is the truth. No, Kerry and Bin Laden are not expressing similar sentiments. Nor do they “sound like” each other.
It’s no secret that Bin Laden would be opposed to the war in Iraq. He’s opposed to any US presence in the Middle East.
But that doesn’t mean anyone who opposes the war agrees with Bin Laden.
January 21st, 2006 at 11:54 pmDon’t be so sure of your assumptions. See http://dailyhowler.com/dh101204.shtml for thoughts on Mr. Schieffer and his relationship w/ our grand emperor. The STATE owns everything we see and hear.
January 21st, 2006 at 11:56 pmYes Worfeus, I know what you mean. Bin Laden is not some stupid hick from the back country. Sure, he likes the back country, but he knows a little something about “working the people”. We must be aware that many people in this world sympathize with Bin Laden’s ideals and these people know what is happening in US politics. These people are able to convey information to Bin Laden and are the ones that need to be found out. Bin Laden just loves the fact that right wing neocons are convincing it’s fellow americans that the “liberal left” or “Micheal Moore” or anyone that disagrees with them are really just like Bin Laden himself.
Bin Laden’s strategy is the self implosion of America……and it’s working.
January 21st, 2006 at 11:58 pmThis entire OBL = DNC smear campaign is a Rovian smokescreen designed to confuse and distract the public from the embarrassing fact that four and a half years after 9/11 Osama is still out there and making tapes. Heckuva way to kick of a big new national security campaign with a new OBL tape coming out on the same day, doncha know. Sorry to hear Schieffer has taken the bait.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:00 amJudd.
Agreed.
I think this thread will blossom into looking at the exact talking points they are claiming he is copying.
I personally have not done the footwork, (but will now most likely) on the specific talking points. It would help if I had a copy of the transcript of the Bin Laden tape. I will look for one.
If the talking points are there then I don’t see a problem in at least discussing the reasons why he is trying to mimic democratic talking points.
If the talking points are not there however, then it is hubristic slander to imply that there is.
Too be continued.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:01 amI should have said “Like Kerry” but you get my point.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:02 amTranscript of Bin Laden statement here
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:04 amBin Laden just loves the fact that right wing neocons are convincing it’s fellow americans that the “liberal left†or “Micheal Moore†or anyone that disagrees with them are really just like Bin Laden himself.
Bin Laden’s strategy is the self implosion of America……and it’s working.
Comment by Bob Loblaw — January 21, 2006 @ 11:58 pm
Yes.
This is precisely what I am talking about.
But you made a good point that I did not make clear enough.
If the right did not view any introspection as Alqueada loving traitor talk, then Bin Laden would not be able to so easily play them, like that cheep banjo I mentioned.
That’s why republicans can’t play poker.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:06 amTHANK YOU MLDB.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:07 amJudd – “But that doesn’t mean anyone who opposes the war agrees with Bin Laden.”
That is exactly the problem with the media. It is always put forth that if you believe ______ then you must agree with ______. It’s such a falsehood. Everyone is an individual and everyone is free to believe want they want. Especially, you would think, in America. But the media gathers the masses in like a good border collie gathers in the sheep. The evangelical christians, the muslims, the _____ want you to believe in ______ to the extent that facts and lives matter not.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:09 amdiamonds cut diamonds.
I’d be gettin the code book out on that one boys…
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:09 amIf he refuses to go out of his military barracks for patrols, he will face the penalties of the Vietnam butcher
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:13 amWorfeus and others here on ThinkProgress, I thank you for your thoughts. I believe that “right” will pervail over “wrong” because of people here, and the world over, that believe in life over death and freedom over torture. I am incouraged by discussion here (except of course those nasty pests) and look forward to a future full of free, open and honest discussion.
Later dudes.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:14 amThat is an odd choice of words.
Vietnam butcher? Mark that one for the code books too.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:14 amThe wingers are so drunk on the words of those who speak from within the bubble that when they hear somone on the outside speak about reality, they notice the similarity and think they must be in cohoots. I am just amazed that there are people out there stupid enough to believe this stuff. Meanwhile, the next attack draws closer, because tittering about who Osama sounds like forgodssake has nothing to do with protecting America.
Go back and look at the things the Republican antiwar leadership was saying before, during, and after the War in Kosovo. I would just bet there are statements from Osama and Saddam from that era that sound just like Tom DeLay, Duke Cunningham, and Newt Gingrich:
http://democraticwhip.house.gov/media/press.cfm?bSuppressLayout=1&pressReleaseID=76
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:18 amJudd, don’t know if you’re around, but this sure sounds like Bin Laden is directly quoting a democratic talking point.
“Bush has no plan to achieve his alleged victory in Iraq”
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:18 amKerry, who accused Bush of having no exit strategy said, a Democratic victory in November will change that.
CBS News
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:24 amFri, 01 Oct 2004
“Bush has no plan to achieve his alleged victory in Iraqâ€
No. Actually, Osama is quoting a talking point used by George W. Bush when he was attacking President Clinton during the War on Kosovo:
“Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is.†-Gov. George W. Bush (R-TX)
Or maybe he was quoting Tom DeLay during the same period:
“I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our overextended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today.†Floor Statement, 4/28/99
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:26 amI hope this is not gonna get me kicked.
I am not trying to be difficult. But it does seem as if the tape seems to want to try and associate Democrats and Liberals with Bin Laden.
I don’t see the problem with acknowledging this if it’s true.
It does not mean anything, other than Bin Laden, (or someone) wants us to believe Democrats are unpatriotic, thus giving republicans a reason to hate us more, and either further divide the country, or perhaps a more sinister goal is in mind.
We would be well advised to determine the purpose and intent, rather than try to deny it’s existence.
Or am I missing something?
Don’t boot me.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:28 amI see your point rider, but clearly he is accusing Bush, like he were a democrat, of not having a plan for victory, a common left wing accusation.
In fact, it we could say it’s a chant.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:30 amGeorge Bush has no strategy for Iraq
John Kerry
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:32 amSept 20, 2004
Bin Laden’s intent is unknowable and irrelevant anyway. The message may have been Al Qaeda inside baseball for all we know. Best to deal with it from a domestic political perspective. And that should include pointing out that the reason we are even discussing this tape is because George “Smoke ‘Em Out” Bush has neither captured nor killed the turbaned tape-maker.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:36 amThe torturing of men has reached the point of using chemical acids and electric drills in their joints. If they become desperate with them, they put the drill on their heads until death.
I believe this statement is a clear attempt to rile up the left, getting us fired up about new allegations of torture.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:48 amHere are 4 left wing talking points and below, Bin Ladens reference from his tape.
1. We constantly and justly pick on Bush for the Aircraft carrier speech.
em>made that false and stupid show-like announcement from an aircraft carrier on the end of the major operations,
2. We constantly and accurately point to the Bush administrations “hidden agenda”.
Bush and his administration do not have neither the desire nor the will to withdraw from Iraq for their own dubious reasons.
3. We constantly and accurately point out that Iraq has become a recruiting ground for terrorists.
In fact, Iraq has become a point of attraction and recruitment of qualified resources
4. We constantly and accurately point to Haliburton and the huge no bid contracts associated with this war of choice.
the flow of hundreds of billions to the influential people and war merchants in America,
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:54 amI mean, if you want to argue that there are no left winged talking points in Bin Ladens speech ok, but I can’t support that argument.
It does appear on face value alone that Bin Laden clearly is trying to mimic democratic talking points.
But that has as far as I can see, no direct bearing on our talking points.
If a guy runs into a bank wearing a President Reagan mask, that in no way demeans President Reagan.
It’s just a disguise.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:58 amHow the #@/* can Shiffer compare what OBL tape contain to what Kerry was saying. Wasn’t the tape in Arabic? Who did the translation? I’m tired of the MSM dumbing down the news for me, that’s why I don’t watch anymore.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:03 am#6
I think you got it right there. Agree 100%.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:04 amLook, comparing us to Bin Laden is ridiculous and hubris.
Unless democrats or liberals are advocating blowing things up, then only the most thick skulled lowbrow right wing creton would compare us to him.
Recognizing he is trying to mimic us, to play the right off the left, and the left off the right is in my humble opinion, the best thing we could take away from the tape.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:05 amOh yea, and this line?
“The swimmer in the sea does not fear rain”
This is another one for the boys with the code book.
Get that one boys?
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:07 amI just read bin Laden’s statement (thanks for the link) and I agree with Worfeus that he’s deliberately trying to sow discord. Either that or he sees the opinion polls (as can anyone with an education, who can speak English and use the Internet — why is bin Laden still able to use the Internet, if he’s “cornered?”) and simply thinks that he has a chance to gain cred among potential followers by issuing such a statement before the U.S. leaves Iraq anyway.
Tough to say — bin Laden has badly misread the U.S. before. But one thing’s for sure: making decisions based upon what this mass murderer says he wants or doesn’t want is a bad idea.
The war in Iraq was dumb, and has been executed badly, to boot. We don’t need bin Laden to tell us that, and using the fact that bin Laden noted such a common-sense fact in his statement to compare the American Left with him misses the point entirely.
Bin Laden has made many statements that sound just like Pat Robertson, IMHO. Does that really mean they’re ideological kin? As bad as Robertson is in his own right, I’d have to say, “of course not”.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:10 amAnd notice this line.
The best way of death for us is under the shadows of swords.
Shadows of swords?
Hmm, why does that make me think of Nuclear Missles in our silos?
Could this be a call by Bin Laden to his American sleeper cells to launch some sort of attacks on our nations nuclear missles defenses?
I don’t know, that’s a reach, but I saw that picture in my head when I read that.
Of course, the very next line says;
Do not be deluded by your power and modern weapons
Hmm…plot thickens…
Guess we can throw that to the codebreakers at Meade as well.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:11 amAll the following sound like codes to me.
Anyone else?
diamonds cut diamonds
The swimmer in the sea does not fear rain
the shadows of swords.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:15 am
WORFEUS,
Bow let’s check for RIght WIng talking points:
1. Concitions in Iraq are improving everyday. God Bless you all.
2. Withdrawing our troops from Iraq sends the wrong message to the enemy and makes us look weak.
3. Iraq is a breeding ground for terrorist. We are fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here.
4. The US will accept nothing less than total victory in the GLobal War on Terror.
Also, the code guys might want to look at:
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:24 am
I think the point is that bin Laden sounds like those on the Left, not that those on the Left sound like bin Laden.
Again, if you look at older statements, you could find similarities between what bin Laden has said and the statements of George Bush, various Christian Right leaders, etc. The biggest problem I have with what Matthews et al. have said is that they didn’t make the same comparisons when those older statements came out.
Maybe they felt the similarities were too obvious. But I rather think that, this time, the right wing quickly ginned up anti-Left talking points in response to Osama’s statement.
Which tells us a lot more about them and their intentions than it does about the Left or bin Laden, frankly.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:28 ami read through all the comments here and one very basic point was missing. is it just possible that both the democrats and bin laden are saying the same thing because both are basically speaking “the truth”?
we talk a lot on TP about the imperial presidency, king george, oil grabs, corporate control of government and the military, etc. i suppose it depends what you consider radical Islam to be, to me it is a geopolitical movement that results from globalization, rather than the religious stuff. we hear bush talk about God plenty, and none of us think he is a godly man, and Bin Laden uses Islam in a similarly manipulative way.
one last thought. the Bush regime is so radical that yes, opposing it will necessarily result in viewpoints that they will frame as unpatriotic, unAmerican, sympathetic to our enemies, etc. God, look around, all that is already happening.
if you check the scores, and count the maimed, Bush is well ahead of Bin Laden in terms of wounding Americans in the last 3 years, and is closing in on the same number of kills.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:28 amAlso, the code guys might want to look at:
“Peace be upon those who follow guidance.â€
Comment by SpudgeBoy — January 22, 2006 @ 1:24 am
Yes, I had that one in my decoder ring too.
I forgot to post it.
That one looks like a starter pistol to me.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:31 amExtreme Unction,
Perhaps so. I will say, however, that I think Osama’s intentions and the intentions of the American Left are quite different — a fact that Matthews and Scheiffer might want to make plain.
Bin Laden wants to burnish his rep and achieve a middle east theocracy. We want the U.S. government to stop screwing around making bin Laden’s job easier for him.
I’m sure this is nothing that hasn’t occurred to everyone else here. But it’s worth nothing that bin Laden does not have our best interests at heart, even if Bush has screwed up so badly that bin Laden’s best weapon now is the truth.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:32 amand the intentions of the American Left are quite different
Comment by Jonathan — January 22, 2006 @ 1:32 am
I would say so. None of us want to blow things up. :|
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:34 amOnly in video games.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:35 amWorfeus, etc.,
I’ll just note that, for years, Internet enthusiasts have tried to decode statements bin Laden and others have made. Most of the time, this is a process that’s made much more difficult due to the lack of familiarity with militant/extremist Arabic phraseology.
Now, I’m no expert on that myself. But I know those who are, and have run enough of these by them to guess that statements like “Pease be upon those who follow guidance” are likely just admonitions to listen to his words.
Not to say that there aren’t hidden messages in binny’s statements. But to a degree, what you’re noticing is simply artifacts of translation from a language and manner of speaking that uses such phrases normally.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:36 amExcept Bin Laden.
And when we impeach Bush, then turn our military to Kashmir where he’s sitting now sipping pina colada’s, he will release another tape.
It will say, “get me the hell outa here!”
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:36 amer, “peace”, not “pease” :)
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:36 amSpudge
You do COD2?
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:37 amHey Jonathan, for all I know he’s asking for a Quarter Pounder with Cheese.
I am no expert.
Just speakin mee mind.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:38 am:)
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:39 amNo, I don’t I am a Doom 3, Half Life 2, FEAR kinda guy. I also play a lot of WoW.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:39 amJonathan
i was referring simply to the facts, not the intentions. for instance, bin laden says that iraq has become fertile ground for terrorists. so did an american general. we should not attribute any connection other than that both are registering similar conclusions from the military picture (or both are similarly mistaken).
to analogize, if bin laden was wearing an Eminem t-shirt, would that mean that Eminem fans are Al-Qaida sympathizers. by the “logic” of the GOP, yes.
unusually for “wartime” (no war has been declared), we have a situation where Bush is fighting a propaganda war on two fronts, against the Democrats, and with the Arab world. these latest talking points show that some bright spark has decided to begin synthesising these two fronts and linking democrats to terrorists in the same way that 9/11 was linked to Iraq.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:41 amI hope thats not where the GOP is going with this.
I hope you’re wrong about that. I mean why would they want to bother with comparing us to bi…
Hey….wait a minute!
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:46 amextreme unction,
I agree with you, and didn’t mean to imply that you were saying the intentions were the same.
Like I said, I’m sure that everyone here (including the trolls) know full well that those on the Left (with the possible exception of a very few on both the Left and the Right, and most of those are likely in nuthouses) have anything in common with bin Laden.
Frankly, I think one of the biggest impediments to nailing bin Laden is the very fact that Bush is spending so much time attacking Democrats.
He doesn’t know who the enemy is. Explains a heck of a lot.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:49 amer, “don’t have anything in common”.
That’s two easy mistakes in 20 minutes. Time for bed.
As a final statement: I think we’re seeing some sloppiness on the part of journalists, rather than a real attempt to attack Democrats. But I also think the journalists are being egged on by GOP talking points; evidently, those on the Right have nothing better to do vis-a-vis bin Laden than wage war on other Americans.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:51 amBob Scheifer acknowledged a few weks ago he though Bush should be “given a chance”.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:55 amHah haha ha ha ah ah .
Anybody seen this yet.
I guess Michael Moore thinks Chris Matthews is an idiot.
CHRIS MATTHEWS AND OSAMA BIN LADEN — A “SPECIAL” FRIENDSHIP
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:58 amLOL, what the heck…
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:59 amIsn’t it a strange coincidence how the left and Democrat party’s statements on Bush and the War match up word for word with Saddam, Bin Laden and other Al Qaeda?
Comment by Red’s Tater
This comment by someone people are saying is really I-HIDE-I is a prime example of the lowbrow thick skulled right winged creton I mentioned earlier.
He is asking a question but implying a conclusion by adding the crafty but obvious, “isn’t it strange”.
This is lowbrow dirty pool, plain and simple.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:02 amThe comments that seem to be attempting to ascribe credibility to the pathetic attempts by the Right, as well as some on the left?!? (WTF???) to show some warped similarities between Dems and Bin Laden are just ignorant and stupid, and only serve to enable the liars in lying about us. “Bush has no plan to win in Iraq.” Does someone have information about some amazing (and Top Secret!)plan for winning? If so, please do share! His utter failure at planning a strategy for sucess, and any sort of “Big Finish” is common knowledge. Even the terrorists “Recognize”. Gawd, Republicans do not need help bashing us. A better point would be that Dems and Osama get it, why don’t the Bushies??? Because they are STUPID!!!
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:19 amCyra,
The only similarity is simply that Bush has screwed things up so much in Iraq and elsewhere that bin Laden’s simplest and most potent weapons are the truth.
Bin Laden is deliberately trying to sow discord by remarking how sucky things are in Iraq and elsewhere right now. He knows this is likely to result in heightened support for Bush. Read his statement; he knows full well what’s going on here.
If anything, his statement, coming as it does right now in the midst of Bush’s political troubles, are intended as a lifeline for Bush.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:44 amRed,
It’s no coincidence at all. Bin Laden is sending a message to Bush: “I’ve got your back. Look at how easily I can give you ammunition against your critics”.
And fools like you take the bait every time.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:46 amAt this point, I think the TV and radio pundits feel they can say ANYTHING about Democrats and liberals, and get away with it, including labeling as a unpatriotic and treasonous.
This time, we must not let them ride off scott free.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:58 amMany people are saying he is scared, and wants to make a truce cause were getting closer.
Well, unless we have tactical operations currently underway in Kashmir, then I doubt we’re that close to Bin Laden.
So why would he offer a truce?
In the Muslim culture, there is a belief that if you offer your enemy the opportunity to make peace, and he refuses, your subsequent actions are justified.
Is it possible Bin Laden was making peace with his God before he commits a major act of terror?
Or was this his way of doing a little preliminary damage control, to control the negative impact on the people of the world for committing some impending horrific act on US soil?
I don’t know. After all, I’m no expert.
But it seems to me, Bin Laden is a fairly intelligent, crafty and patient enemy.
And if so, then perhaps he carefully prepared this prepared statement and what we think he means by it is exactly what he wants us to think it means.
Know what I mean?
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:32 amGood posts every one. Me thinks if the tape was made by Bushes buddy, BenLauden and convenietly arrived as usual for more Bush blitz crap, aimed at non Bush lovers, this is just more of the same. Keep our masses busy with b.s. while we are robbed by the adminisration and controled by deviding our country and creating more fear.Is BenLauden on vacation in Crawford.? Maybe a certain old pig farm is realy a time share…..Blessings
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:36 amOn the other hand, the tapes do have a vagueness to them, and a manufactured quality.
Why be so vague about somethings, and mention the original 4 members of the Bush war club, but not recent additions?
Who knows, but lets say I were a magician.
I wanted to make someone, who was going to be dead, appear alive.
Perhaps I would take a camcorder, and make video tapes of various consitency and quality, in simple draped sheet backgrounds.
I could do it all in one spot, and make them all look different.
Then, I reference a series of events, say some car races.
I reference different car races, in different countries, and with different circumstances and outcomes.
Then, as these car races occured, I could play the tape that corrosponds to a recent racing event or series of events.
No specifics, just generalites of course in order to avoid incompatible facts other than a few regular race car drivers I knew would be in any big race.
It would be quite simple actually, if you think about for more than, oh say about 5 minutes?
Now why am I suddenly reminded of the Pelican Brief?
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:36 amNow that being said, with regards to possibly prepared tapes, I have no information on who would do this.
Both sides could benefit from such a scenario depending on the objective.
But I could easily see Alqueada doing this to keep Bin Laden alive forever, merrily defying the US as he speaks to us from various undisclosed locations.
It would definately make sense for Alqueada to do this.
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:38 amIt was really nice of Bin Laden, considering how Bush is up against the ropes on the NSA Spying Scandal this week, to take the heat off him by giving the American people a glimpse of the boogey man after more than a year.
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:40 amI hate skullduggery.
It makes mee head hurt.
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:41 amThere is a historical precident for the Bin Laden- Name your favorite liberal comparison…
the “Red Scare ” of the Late 40’s that culminated in the Joeseph McCarthy hearings..
they were using another actual enemy of this country, communists world wide.
Since it was still early in the cold war the ability to get people to react from fear was easy.
Back then the memory of the Nazi’s et al was fresh in everyones mind.
The scare merchants at that time used the memories of the Nazi’s to incite fear of the communists.
It also allowed the right to seperate neo-leftists from hard line leftists.
The neo-leftists did not want to be tarred with the communist tag so they denounced the hard-line leftist.
By effect this moves the political discussion to the right, and ideas that once were opened to discussion were placed “off limits” as “not patriotic” or “giving aid to the enemy”
A pronounced effect back then was to denounce people who’s opinions were not in line with the “accepted orthodoxicy” at that time;…Black lists,…. smear campains, the political neo-left in this country mainly the unions fresh from the battles of the great depression,in order to keep from being tagged as communists were turned to allies in the “War on communisn.
As a result of this the political discussions after WW2 turned away from the questions that dominated the great depression toward “fighting communism, both at home and abroad” fastfoward to the present insert the word terrorism and the result you get is the left are stooges of Bin Laden.
They (the left)willingly carry his message because of the similarity of his (bin laden’s)statements to (name your favorite target for a smear).
Part of the message here from the MSM is to make sure you don’t sound too much like Bin Laden unless you secretly agree with him.
Rove already let it be known that this years mid-term election will focus on fighting the war on terrorism, and he slipped in the normal rightwing charge they fight while we block.
The battlelines in the election will come down to; Bush and those who agree with them claiming, they are trying to save us from the sworn enemy of the USA, while the leftist racicals want to ignore this very real danger for our land for the investigation of a few corrupt politicians.
Bush and CO claiming they are only spying on real enemies, while the radical left throws out unsubstanciated claims that the NSA are spying on american citizens, and by the logic of bush blocking the war on terror.
Bush and CO claim They want to fight them over there so they don’t have to fight them here, while the accuse the radical left of cut-and-run.
If the focus stays on Iraq there is a possibility for their message to resonate.
So the MSM to prove that they are “unbiased” will play the “give each side equal time for their accusations” without the traditional journalistic requirement for reporting the facts.
By sounding similar will begin to mean they have the same goals, without a true investigation of thereal meaning of message to include context, but we all know context does not fit in 30 sec campain adds.
A claim from the right repeated long enough without the requirement of the press to check it out becomes fact.
This has been one of their standard disinformation tactics for several election cycles now.
I’m sure the comparisons that were “accidentally” discovered by supposed non-biased MSM professionals will show up in TV adds later this year to smear the politicians running against members of the Republican party, especially where the Republican canidate might be in trouble.
The subliminal message “sure a few politicans from both side might be corrupt, but WE never give aid to our enemies.”
The fear campain against Iraq in 2002 changed the political discussion from the corporate corruption to WMD and mushroom clouds.
This year they need something to take attention off corruption of the Leadership of the Republication Party in both houses and the White house.
So they are moving to blend Osama with dems sorta like 1994 where all the local democratic politicians morfed into Bill Clinton on TV adds.
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:41 amHoly crap Clif. That was like a thesis or something.
It was pretty good though. And I think we all share the same fears. Which is why we need to demand an independent counsel into the workings behind the war in Iraq, and we need to compile articles of Impeachment.
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:46 amHey Clif. Is everyone mad at me cause I kinda saw the other side?
Are they going to boot me?
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:55 amNo worfeus justa statement that the right has done this before. At the time they were looking at a political landscape where the opposition party was credited by the majority with pulling the country out of the great sepression, and leading the country throught he worst war in memory, if the right hadn’t had the communists they would have had to invent them or face the real possibility of becomming irrealivent to the political discussions at the time, today with the scandals in DC, unease with the war, fiasco of Katrina et al the right has to quickly change the public discourse or loose control of the political debate, and when they do not control the debate they loose.
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:55 amWorf old buddy you always need to look real hard at the othersides points, because we do not have all the answers or ideas, in fact the majority of the time the right’s biggest failing is the inability to give credit where credits due.
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:58 amI fully agree with you there. It’s called the Potomac Two Step, and that saying didn’t originate with the movie.
It’s the rope-a-dope.
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:58 amWell, I just figure, if I can see Bin Laden is clearly referencing specific democrat talking points, and also trying to rile up dems with talk of torture courtesy of Black and Decker, then either he just saw the new Quentin Tarintino movie or he’s trying to divide the parties.
Like we needed dividing :D
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:01 amworf your thinking out loud here is good for me cause gives me more to think about, if the red scare tactics aren’t something your up to par with look in to it, knowledge of that particular period gives a whole new context to the rights moves in the media, by the way it is no mere coincidence that the MSM had become electronic around the same time the red scare occured
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:03 amBut to close my thought, LoL, if I can see it, then probably other libbies see it to.
I don’t want to see it. But I do. So to deny it, rather than defend against it, seems futile.
Back to Patriot Games, why diffuse a bomb once it’s already gone off?
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:04 amVery good posts Clif……..Blessings
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:06 amI lived through the end of the cold war, and I did the tuck and roll.
So yes, I am fairly familiar with the stuff that went on right before I was born. And good ole tail gunner joe is no new name to me.
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:08 amWhen mr ho say mr ho want to kno, mr ho already kno.
mr ho kno they don’t want to kno mr ho.
mr ho kno mightheindicthe don’t want to kno mr ho.
They didn’t want mr ho to kno but mr ho kno.
Now they don’t want anyone to kno mr ho kno. mr ho please don’t go.
Mary Richards phoned me and said I should have said Condi masks.
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:10 amBecause unlike real physical bombs that cause real physical damage that is sometimes nonreversable, a mental or philosophical “bomb” as you say can be defused after the fact by a genours application of truth, BTW (91E is the miliitary MOS of a bomb disposal officer in other words diffuse bombs but we actually call it rendering it safe)
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:12 amSometimes a RSP is a BIP. (rendor safe procedure) is to (blow it in place.)
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:15 amYea, thats what happened to Bill. He tried for a RSP and ended up with a BIP.
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:17 am:D
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:17 amOk, I guess I’m getting loopy.
Later Clif. Great posts.
That was fun last night.
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:19 amLater
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:20 amIf I tell the truth and Hitler repeates it, that dosen’t mean I support Hitler. OBL is telling the truth which is in stark contrast to what Bush does every day.
January 22nd, 2006 at 7:17 am#1 bullseye……is it fair no….but I think you pegged it, and the Democrats need to address the perception.
I’m a Republican and get linked to the ‘kooks on the Religious Right” they absolutely don’t follow religion the way I do. I think they are bigoted, homophobes and not the open arms that Christ embodied……yet I get lumped in with them.
as an America first, it’s vital that the Loyal Opposition speak out on issues concerning us, I don’t like my party accusing Democrats of being unpatriotic because they have an opinion.
January 22nd, 2006 at 7:28 ammore feed the right.
quote
NEW YORK — Entertainer Harry Belafonte, one of the Bush administration’s harshest critics, compared the Homeland Security Department to the Nazi Gestapo on Saturday and attacked the president as a liar.
“We’ve come to this dark time in which the new Gestapo of Homeland Security lurks here, where citizens are having their rights suspended,” Belafonte said in a speech to the annual meeting of the Arts Presenters Members Conference.
unquote
January 22nd, 2006 at 7:47 amI won’t apologize for agreeing with Osama’s mid east policy. Buying oil from Arabs is negotiating with terrorists.
January 22nd, 2006 at 7:59 amI tried to submit comments to Bob Schieffer at the CBS Face the Nation site. Once I clicked the submit button, the next screen was “Page not found”. Does that mean my emails have not been received? If so, has anyone else had the same experience?
January 22nd, 2006 at 8:09 amWhy just an audio tape for ‘Bin Laden’? Couldn’t they find a ‘look-alike actor’?
January 22nd, 2006 at 8:30 amOr hasn’t Mme. Tussaud created a look-alike in her HOUSE OF WAX?
“Come on, guys and gals…we expect better product from the NSA!”
Do people really believe that the USA did not make this tape?
January 22nd, 2006 at 8:32 amThe ben laden tape is a fake ,manufactured by karl rove to sell america more fascism .
January 22nd, 2006 at 8:50 amThe Spirit of Ellsworth Toohey journalism is apparently alive and well in the tatters of Mr Schieffer’s journalistic principles.
Mr. Schieffer’s enthusiasm for sneering at Kerry is only the latest in the “mainstream” (republican owned) news media’s subtle campaign of support for an administration which has blackened the eye of the US with torture, scandal and outright disdain.
Mr. Schieffer dutifully smears perhaps because his masters have so ordained, or that his personal opinion makes such unwarranted attacks easier.
In any case, the remnants of honest journalism, championed by such as Bill Moyers and Edward R. Murrow, have been systematically dismantled by cooperative footsoldiers like Bob Schieffer.
Like the dubious, pliant and once respected Colin Powell, Mr Schieffer is a “good soldier.”
January 22nd, 2006 at 8:51 amHow can the talking heads be so stupid as to even be discussing this observation of the similarity between OBL’s tape and DNC talking points? This is the stuff of which stories in the National Enquirer are made. The whole discussion among these so-called pundits reminds me of the logical muddle of the villagers in the “She’s a witch!” scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
http://www.churchofcriticalthinking.com/archives/000160monty_python_and_the.html
Here are the less ridiculous parts of their logical analysis:
January 22nd, 2006 at 8:57 am
Let us not forget that Bob Schieffer is another good old son of Texas. Also, that his brother Tom Shieffer is a close friend and former business partner of George W. Bush.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m sure it is no coincidence that Tom was appointed as Ambassador to Japan this past November. I mean, I wonder what is in store for Bob down the road?
January 22nd, 2006 at 9:00 amhardass,
January 22nd, 2006 at 9:03 amIn the past they couldn’t call the tapes fake fast enough. This one was quickly verified as authentic, no?
#2 – I agree. I don’t trust the translation of the audio tape. There is no logic to OBL using liberal talking points on this audio tape. This tape has probably been altered and we are asked to believe the very Government that has been lying to us all along. Where’s the journalist that will look into the authenticity of this tape and the authenticity of the translation of this tape. That journalist would be a true Patriot. The GOP wants to keep us afraid all year until election ‘06 because they haven’t done crap for the American people. All the GOP did was give tax breaks to the rich, give Government contracts to their friends, create an enormous deficit (Asia now owns us), take from the poor (Medicare Part D), give jobs to their friends,tear apart environmental protections so that their friends can get richer, and sent Americans off to die for a phony war. The GOP doesn’t want us to look at the real issues – the Terrorism brought upon the American people by the GOP by all the actions that I mentioned in the previous sentance. The neocons and their supporters are the REAL TERRORISTS. Are you reading my post George W Bush and Dick Chaney and Donald Rumsfeld and Alberto Gonzalez?
January 22nd, 2006 at 9:10 amMuch has been written about the right wing blowhards comparing the
similarities between Liberal criticism of Bush and the points made by
Bin Laden in his latest tape. However, an even more compelling case
can be made showing the similarities between the social policies of the
religious right and radical islam. That is by far much more
interesting and telling for there is not much of a story when everyone
(including Bin Laden) points out the obvious, namely that Bush’s war on
Iraq is a disaster, but compare the principles and policies of their
bases and find a match – well now that’s wisdom.
Turning the Tables
by DarkSyde
Sun Jan 22, 2006 at 06:06:36 AM PDT
The modern GOP is a precarious alliance between moderate, sane,
conservatives, corporate interests understandably focused on short term
profits, and a fundamentalist mob whose social policies poll anywhere
between unpopular to repugnant among the majority of Americans.
The moderates are the official face set forth in PR efforts, the
corporate interests drive the money, and like in any feudal system, the
cultish masses provide the votes and do the grassroots work. But
there’s a glaring weakness: Expose that extremist base for what it is,
flip that rock over to illuminate the ugly squatting trolls hiding
underneath, and it’s game over folks. Here’s one way to go about doing
that, and in all fairness we should thank the GOP shills on Cable News
and all across the blogosphere for bringing it our attention and
warming up the soundbite for us so nicely.
::
Osama bin Laden:
The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating
partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the
Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws
Osama bin Laden calling for ‘morality’:
We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity;
to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants,
gambling’s, and trading with interest.
Osama bin Laden on Bill Clinton:
Who can forget your President Clinton’s immoral acts committed in the
official Oval office?
Osama bin Laden on women in the workplace:
You are a nation that exploits women like consumer products or
advertising tools calling upon customers to purchase them. You use
women to serve passengers, visitors, and strangers to increase your
profit margins.
Osama bin Laden on AIDS:
[Y]ou have been described in history as a nation that spreads diseases
that were unknown to man in the past. Go ahead and boast to the nations
of man, that you brought them AIDS as a Satanic American Invention
Osama bin Laden on gambling:
You are a nation that permits gambling in its all forms. The companies
practice this as well, resulting in the investments becoming active and
the criminals becoming rich.
And that’s just from one of Osama’s barking at the moon bat shit crazy
religious screeds. I don’t know about you folks, but that doesn’t sound
very liberal to me. But it sure sounds like something I might hear on
the GOP/fundie talk radio …
So, when the extremist nutcases in our country start comparing
patriotic Democrats and Progressives with Osama bin Laden, welcome the
opportunity to point out that the present incarnation of the GOP is
controlled by the religious right, the Theocons, who bear disturbing
parallels to the most wanted man in the world. And you don’t have to be
able to whip out a bunch of quotes, all you need to remember is a
simple soundbite and they will open the door for you.
The religious right is Osama bin Laden light.
That’s how easy it is to turn the tables.
January 22nd, 2006 at 9:18 amAfter reading the full transcript, this tape doesn’t make sense. It doens’t sound like OBL statements. Not enough “praise allah” and not enough quotes from the Koran. Someone else wrote this. Actually, it reads like several people composed the message. Somethings very wrong with this translation. Has anyone heard this tape without translation, that is, just OBL speaking?
January 22nd, 2006 at 9:25 amAnother point – I didn’t see anything in this translation that sounded like liberal talk.
January 22nd, 2006 at 9:27 amTo listen to all this nonsense about Moore and Osama is to presuppose the tape is authentic. It’s a fake, coming right long in time to deflect attention from the mounting scandals surrounding the Bush administration. Good old Osama. Always there when Boy George needs him.
January 22nd, 2006 at 9:29 am#27 thank you . Now I’m convinced that Karl Rove had something to do with this tape and it’s not really OBL most recent tape.
January 22nd, 2006 at 9:31 amIf we assume the purpose of the Bin Laden tape is to use propaganda to divide and conquer. By the points chosen, and the typical shallow analysis by FOX AND the MSM, whom is it designed to conquer? -> the Democrats = the left or the US?
There is some oddity here in that if Bin Laden is truly the source, then it appears that the most damage the message will do, intended or not, is to the US left (by purposeful use of the same or similar terminology).
There is another possibility. Consider, if say a Wolfowitz or other supporter of the administration’s world “philosophy” had an opportunity to fabricate a message from Bin Laden. What would it sound like? What would be its motive? Wouldn’t the tape sound much the same? Would not the tape try to ally by imitation/association the political “enemies” of the administration world philosophy.
Bear in mind that the Bin Laden tape was only available for 4 hours from Al Jazeera, when it was announced that the CIA authenticated the voice on the tape. I realize the technology for fingerprinting may have improved since 2001, but had I heard a voice recognition expert (NPR?)that claimed it still takes about 24 hours to verify this technique.
Maybe I’m way off base but, could this recording be a manufactured hoax? The tape appears to have better served the motives of the neocons, than Bin Laden.
I could be wrong.
January 22nd, 2006 at 9:52 am#105 – well spoken. My thoughts exactly. Osama saves Chimpy and the Theives again
January 22nd, 2006 at 9:54 amIt’s all about the President’s boogey men and ankle biters. Chris Matthews and Bob Schieffer just equate the words, not the delivery. It’s all about getting attention, look at President Machmood Ireallyneedajob, he is just countering the President’s bravado. The President has to respond, just to him. This is dangerous because as we loose the President’s attention to the boogeymen, and he has a growing list at the moment, I think the American people will become skeptical of the President’s capabilities in enduring any more violent regime changes. I think there is always going to Boogey men. So, these big infrastructure wrecking adventures BETTER have some real value in their pursuit. So here is a question , is Michael Moore evil?
January 22nd, 2006 at 9:56 amI am stunned by how many loyal TP readers are taking the bait on this. By giving any credence at all to the notion that Bush’s opposition is somehow in league with America’s greatest nemesis is ironclad proof that Karl Rove has gotten past the distraction of his pending indictment and he’s back on his game.
The rightwing smear machine dedicates an inordinate amount of its time trying to paint these ridiculous caricatures of the left and suddenly we are to believe that Bin Laden has gone public with another tape that very specifically perpetuates the same myth? Come on people….you’re being duped.
Wasn’t Sean Hannity’s last book called: Deliver Us from Evil: Defeating Terrorism, Despotism, and Liberalism Their latest assignment is to conflate “liberals” with Bin Laden and the fact that people are indulging this falsehood with serious debate means we’ve already lost. I admit it, Karl Rove and the rightwing smear merchants are very good at what they do….I’m just a little bummed that smart people on the left keep falling for it.
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:03 amLately the press has been associating Bin Laden with Democrats.
It has been totally missed that America supports regimes that harbor terrorists. One military official a few months ago boasted that if it weren’t for “diplomatic” ties with a “certain country” we would have had Bin Laden by now?
Has everybody forgotten this???????????????????
Does anyone remember whom? Wasn’t it a sate dept. official?
And the “Non-blog media” has the audacity to compare these Islamo-fundies to Democrats. Up is down and down is up. This perception has to STOP!
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:13 amJanuary 22nd, 2006 at 10:16 am
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:18 am
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:19 am
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:20 am
Jay, Dan Rather being taken down by a bad story still has a lot of Uber Ego journalist “adjusting” to how far they want to go to get an answer from the White House. Look what happened to the Post over Dan Froomkin’s blog.Apparently until Luskin is happy, a boat load of journalists are going to become after the fact, bankrupt, stooges. Sean Hannity’s crowd isn’t breeding right now so I think the number one change to really get more people to vote would be to change the voting date to a Saturday. That may not seem to be a simple solution but I think it address the problem. Elderly entitlements.
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:20 amJanuary 22nd, 2006 at 10:21 am
IMHO, this Bin Laden-”liberal” conflation effort is a key move in the rightwing/Bush Admin effort to shut the left up in their ongoing domestic propaganda/psyops effort to carry out an attack on Iran. They are clearly moving in that direction and despite ample evidence to the contrary they’re convinced that we can handle it militarily. They really only need to bolster support at home. Fearmongering worked with Iraq, so…….
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:22 amJanuary 22nd, 2006 at 10:24 am
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:26 am
fly-man,
I didn’t realize that there was an issue with Froomkin’s blog, I’d like to know more on that. What I’m very familiar with is the story with the WaPo’s online ombudsman Debbie Howell printing falsehoods about the Abramoff scandal (Dems got money from him too) and then being eviscerated by thousands of angry bloggers. They had to shut the comments section down.
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:26 amJanuary 22nd, 2006 at 10:28 am
It is a huge stretch to say that OBL’s tape bears any resemblance to DNC talking points or points made by Kerry, Kennedy, Moore, etc. That’s bullshit.
It is what it purports to be: OBL’s commentary on statements by Bush on recent polls,
on facts on the ground vs. Pentagon reports, on discussion by Bush about bombing Al Jazeera, on a new book, on a truce.
Yes, if you dig, there are a few things reminiscent
of antiwar talking points. That shouldn’t be surprising. After all he says he’s going to talk about ending the war.
Yes, he says Bush has no exit strategy. Gov. George Bush said the same thing about Clinton one month after the War in Kosovo started. So did Tom DeLay and Duke Cunningham.
Yes, he says Bush’s statement on the aircraft carrier were inaccurate. Duh. He watches the news, right?
Yes, he mentions American war profiteers. Duh. He sees them first hand everyday. He watches the news.
OBL is more reality-based hiding in a cave in Waziristan (?) than Dick Cheney living in his fantasy bubble. That’s the problem the pundits have stumbled on. So they assume everyone speaking outside the fantasy bubble must be in league with each other.
There is far more in the OBL tape that sounds nothing like anything any liberal has said. Democrats point out that conditions are deteriorating in Iraq or Aghanistan, but they don’t add “Praise be to God.” Democrats don’t threaten to attack America. Democrats do not urge truce with Al Qaeda. Democrats don’t claim that Iraqi women were raped and taken hostage in place of their husbands. Democrats don’t crudely appeal in antiwar statements to soldier suicides.
This meme comes right off the desk of Karl Rove, and is nothing but a smokescreen to cover the administration’s embarrassment at having yet another OBL tape released on the same day that Rove is making a speech urging Republicans to politicize national security this year. The tape begs the question: Why is Osama still out there making tapes instead of dead or sitting behind bars (like Blind Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman)?
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:36 amRight, and now only Russ Feingold, according to the current logic being played out just like all extortion deals do, is really the only one who can argue against a regime change in Iran or Syria. Isn’t the argument being used against Sen. HRClinton right now over her comments on Iran? I told my mom as soon as I heard we were heading to Iraq that I thought hiroveness was behind it using the argument, if we win fast The President wins, if it goes bad we will have to re-elect him to finish the job. She thought I was crazy, but, Here comes phase 2, Valeire Plame, Harriet Meiers, the GOPOFF debacle but, those are just bumps in the road so here comes the snake analogy again and this time he is a hissing viper. CRIKEY! I just want an audit of this whole adventure so we can use it to balance the budget in a few years when we actually get to know what it cost and how we as citizens can get a return on our investment. I care not to subsidize someone else’s profit.
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:36 amBIN LADEN IS BEING USED TO FURTHER RIGHTY’S AGENDAS. He’s not at all the enemy of this admin.
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:37 amThe point that they try to make about ‘kerry’ is blowback, for Kerry was part of the Same ‘Cronyisitic Clubs’, and Eastern Liberal IVT league as BUSH.
The TWO my say they are from different ‘Parties’, but rest Assured they are no different. Bushs attack on ‘Liberals’ is actually an attack on his own IVY league greed.
The BOOK that Osama got his “talking” points from is Blums book, which is anti-war, has INCREASED its sales significantly.
The Latest OSAMA tape only bolsters the Argument that Bushs National Security, and his Spying etc have in fact been Failures of National Security. Gannons 200 trips to the whitehouse also Negate Bushco National Security. The AIPAC spy Franklin, was just sentenced to 12 years, another Bushco Caveat, Delay, enron, Abramoff, Billions lost in IRAQ.
Naw, Bushcos Osama tape will Backfire..
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:41 amJanuary 22nd, 2006 at 10:43 am
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:44 am
The right wing spin machine is on full “spin” cycle…
They want the “fraidy cats” to think that dissention (from Progressives) is “aiding and abetting” bin Laden who is using poll numbers and other political information harmful to the criminal Bushite junta from MSM to reach out to the American people…
That “truce” was offered to the American people, the majority of whom want to put an end to this senseless waste of treasury and lives…
Progressives, NOW is the time to step up the pressure not wilt to the “fake patriotism” of ignorant inbreds who are traitors to our country, and who hate our American ideals of a constitutional repuplic of, for and by THE PEOPLE! Not the corporations…
bin Laden is telling the truth when he says in his recording that this war is by and large serving CORPORATE special interests…
The republiscum conservatives have controlled our government since 1994, and look at where we are…
Their brand of politics is anti-American, anti-poor/middle working class, and their brand of politics suborns treason, facism, and racism…
Let’s start governing using the progressive ideals of freedom, equality, respect for the rule of law and diversity…
Let’s make social/ political conservatives what they are treasonous, disgusting, anti-Americans…
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:45 amAll of this chatter is just a waste of technology. One must ask onesself why the shirker, coward, stupid, AWOL asshole is NOT concerned about bin Laden, and why he is not hunting him down.
The reason is simple, really. The shrub does not want to stop bin Laden, does not want to catch bin Laden, does nont wish him any harm at all.
One must realize that bushie and bin laden are soul mates, closer than most family members. The shrub and his father are now, and were then, honorary members of the bin Laden clan.
In the classroom in Florida there was no reaction by bushie. Why? He knew what was coming, he knew what it was. He knew it was his saudi buddies and bin laden. George W. Bush is the most dangerous man on the planet. Forget bin laden, get bushie, the shrub, the coward, the shirker, the liar. He is the one, the dirtbag.
Appointed president, although he lost the vote, he arranged to have this country attacked by bin laden and hhis saudi brethern. Why? to cement himself in the throne of the oval office. Will there be another terrist attack? Yes folks, it is in the works as I write this.
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:45 amAnd if you keep letting them ECHO you back into the Group mentality,. me vs them, then the progressive has become a Bust.
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:45 amAnd THATS exaxtly what they want you to do.
Office of Strategic Influence any one. What was the reason Sec. Rumsfeld didn’t proceed with the office of disinformation back in 02?
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:47 amFound this site yesterday. Seems to be a thoughtful piece on OBL. Anybody want to comment over there? Pretty crowded in here. http://thebowandgrimace.blogspot.com/
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:48 amWell Karl Rove came out and told us that this is how they are going to play it for the purposes of the 06 elections.
I’m not surprised, anymore(sigh), that the corporate Media Masters want to play it out this way.
I am saddened that there aren’t more Jon Stewarts out there willing to call them on their insincerity and shallow appeal to fear & smearing your opponent as trators.
The bushies who buy it totally also don’t surprise me. But they are repeating history. Hitler & the NAZI’s used the exact same play, and it worked then in the 30’s. But the bushies will never admit to the paralells.
Hey, Go Seahawks, Go Denver. Great games today.
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:48 amJanuary 22nd, 2006 at 10:49 am
There is another possibility. Consider, if say a Wolfowitz or other supporter of the administration’s world “philosophy†had an opportunity to fabricate a message from Bin Laden. What would it sound like? What would be its motive? Wouldn’t the tape sound much the same? Would not the tape try to ally by imitation/association the political “enemies†of the administration world philosophy.
Excellent point. The reality is that the Right has to make it an issue out of this because fabrication, lying and using smoke and mirrors to hide ineptitude is all they know… why not throw in some supposed bin Laden speech that they pulled from the Kerry-Bush debates. I wouldn’t put it past them. They usually refuise to air his monologues due to some fear or the other… so why allow this one through? Just something to consider.
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:50 amJanuary 22nd, 2006 at 10:51 am
Okay they wanna play ECHO, then echo this;
Sat Jan 21, 11:39 AM ET
WASHINGTON (AFP) – US Vice President
Dick Cheney has said he does not believe there are close relations between
Iran and Al-Qaeda, seeming to distance himself from some earlier US administration charges.
ADVERTISEMENT
“I think you’ve got to remember that the Al-Qaeda organization is primarily made up of radical Sunni Islamists, of course, and the Iranian regime is Shia-dominated — Shia. So there’s not a natural fit there,” Cheney said in a telephone interview with the Hugh Hewitt Show, released by the White House.
“That doesn’t mean that there haven’t been relationships over the years, but I don’t believe it’s close. I haven’t seen any evidence of that,” Cheney added on the heels of new broadcast threats by
Osama bin Laden.
The George W. Bush administration on several occasions has accused Iran of supporting terrorism and Al-Qaeda.
Iran has said it arrested several hundred Al-Qaeda members after the US-led attack in
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:51 amAfghanistan in 2001. Tehran says it has extradited some of them when possible and that it would try those who challenged its security. But it has been tight-lipped about the identities of the prisoners and their fates.
Now, does Anyone here think BUSH and Cheney have a Clue?
OSAMA. Think about this a minute. Tons of illegal drugs, equipment, cars, people, enter the United States every day. And you THINK OSAMA will be the one that sneaks thru?
CMon, if they had wanted they woud HAVE already been TONS of Anhtrax sen thru the Borders, the SAME WAY THAT drugs and Illegal Aliens, RIGHT this very second. And YOU people are gonna sit here and worry about some REAGAN Freedom Fighter when the Danger, has and still does, lurk here already?
WTFU
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:55 amThe Sky is falling Chicken Littles, you better run for cover and sell your rights so george can NOT protect you some more.
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:56 amFor after ALL isnt the Tape of Osama mean that BUSHCOS WAR, the Lives Lost, the Costs, the Situation is IRAQ, have been a Dismal Failure?
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:58 amUnbelievable, i think we may hear sometime soon the” out of the loop/runaway lower ranked aides” rant . i still want to know how did the NY Times get to sit on classified information for a whole year?
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:01 amJanuary 22nd, 2006 at 11:04 am
Is “journalist” a synonym for “political medium”?
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:08 amBin Laden – Bush is a liar.
Democrats – Bush is a liar.
Truth – Bush is a liar.
Just look at the similarities.
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:08 amEt tu Schieffer? Have you added your voice to those who casually smear democrats at the drop of a hat?
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:09 amJanuary 22nd, 2006 at 11:11 am
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:13 am
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:15 am
THE GREAT DEPRESSION.
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:17 amHow DID It Happen?
What was the cause?
http://www.amatecon.com/gd/gdcandc.html
At the time of the Great Depression,America had a 100% gold standard for its …
In The Great Depression:
Causes
The Stock Market Crash
The Stock Market Crash in October of 1929 is often cited as the beginning of the Great Depression, but did it actually cause it? The answer is no. First, the stock price for a particular company merely reflects current information about the future income stream of that company. Thus, it is a change in available information that changes the stock price. When the Fed began to raise interest rates in early 1929, this began the tumble.
However, a stock market crash could cause people to increase their liquidity preference which might lead them to hoard money.
In the August 1990 issue of The Quarterly Journal of Economics, Christine D. Romer writes that “the negative effect of stock market variability is more than strong enough to account for the entire decline in real consumer spending on durables that occurred in late 1929 and 1930.”
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:19 amHoarding Money
People hoard money because they have a liquidity preference. I.e., people want to have their assets in a readily convertible form, such as money. There are several misconceptions about hoarding money. First hoarding is not the same thing as saving. If I put my money into a savings account, that money is lent out to someone else who then spends it. Second, hoarding, by itself, cannot cause a recession or depression. As long as prices and wages drop instantly to reflect the lower amount of money in the economy, then hoarding causes no problems. Indeed, hoarding can even be seen as beneficial to those who don’t hoard, since their money will be able to buy more goods as a result of the lower prices.
If a country has a gold standard, then hoarding money can make the money supply drop dramatically since a gold standard makes the quantity of money difficult for the government to control.
I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS STATEMENT IS EVEN IN HERE, READ THIS. ITS IN THE TOPIC ABOVE.:
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:21 amIndeed, hoarding can even be seen as beneficial to those who don’t hoard, since their money will be able to buy more goods as a result of the lower prices.
I allways thought hoarding was just plain grees and selfish.
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:23 amat least thats is what i was taught growing up.
Probably best would a been a not air the tape. Can’t sees it helps any. I wouldn’t a even let on to bin laden I got the tape. I guess its that New INSTANT Post 911 thinkin
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:30 amUS Vice President
Dick Cheney has said he does not believe there are close relations between
Iran and Al-Qaeda, seeming to distance himself from some earlier US administration charges.
ADVERTISEMENT
Comment by mr ho #136
mr ho,
That fat beeotch Al Cracka demon finally “read” something on the ME…
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:30 amBush apologists and Bush lovers are FASCISTS, so Schieffer and Matthews denigrate Bush opponents like Kerry and Moore!
Character assassination is their weapon of choice, because they have nothing else to use to defend the ultimate liar President George W. Bush!
Americans who love freedom must demand that Schieffer and Matthews be removed from their positions, thus fired, and then forced to live out their vile lives as worthless drunks!
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:31 am#93 & 94 it saddens me that you represent a good many folks in the Loyal Opposition and it reenforces the Republican mantra “not fit to lead”
No candidate for the Presidency would echo that sentiment, nor would a Congress person running for office.
it allows Democrats to be marginalized and thoughtful people have their opinions dismissed.
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:32 amBin Laden – Bush is a liar.
Democrats – Bush is a liar.
Truth – Bush is a liar.
Just look at the similarities.
Comment by mparker #143
mparker,
Right on,
I would only add to that WONDERFUL POST:
“Former” Bush Appointees and Officials: Bush is a liar.
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:33 amUnbelievable, i think we may hear sometime soon the†out of the loop/runaway lower ranked aides†rant . i still want to know how did the NY Times get to sit on classified information for a whole year?
Comment by the fly-man — January 22, 2006 @ 11:01 am
Fly-man,
No kidding. The more these people are allowed to get away with, the more they WILL push through. The only saving grace they have is that the left is largely pacificts who do not want to resort to violence. But, lately, even that is beginning to erode away.
This whole thing reminds me a bit of the evolution of the Irish civil rights movement – and how it went from peaceful to violent with the emergence and strength of the IRA. Because that is what we are dicussing once again – our civil liberties. I do expect, if things do not change, we will see the formation of underground organizations who will mimic Timothy McVeigh (because despite the inferences, what he really was doing was rebelling against the government. He thought that they had declared war on the citizens in Waco, and was simply responding in teh manner in which he had been trained and decorated by the Army – with violence. But the media had to sell him as a psychopath, to keep the idea from settling with potential revolutionaries. I just think that will only buy them so much time… Because our government seems to be forgetting about our right to bear arms).
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:36 amMaybe it is time to slap down the entire right. They want war… let the democrats give them war. If elected in 2006 and 2008 promise war with Saudi Arabia. Who will be the unpatriotic limped wrists then?
Not a lame half assed Bush style war either. Lets give the victory gardens. Lets give them rationing of metals, gas, food. Lets give them a manhattan project to replace gas with hydrogen. Lets give them small nuclear strikes against Pakistans nuclear facilities. Lets raise the taxes on the rich to pay for it all.
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:43 amThey didn’t waste any time in executing Mc Veigh either. He never sat on death row like some of them do for decades.
I’m NOT taking up for Mc Veigh’s actions. Just pointing out the fact that they definitely used him as an example of what happens to militia that acts on their own in this country.
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:45 amJust out of curiosity. What would some of you do if the govt made it mandatory for every citizen of the US to participate in community service to help the war effort?
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:48 amMcVeigh was wrong certainly wrong to use violence – but he was a product of his environment – the United States Army. They taught him, as they have taught others, including Al Qeada, that violence is the means to solve conflicts. They basically were attacked by their own Frankensteinian monster.
There’s a book by Gore Vidal in which is corresponded with McVeigh for 3 years. He tries not to take sides, but it’s pretty clear that he feels sorry for teh guy because he did think that he was standing up for the little people who could not protect themselves. He didn’t know there was a day care facility in the Murrah Building (which was the head quarters for the attack in Waco – which was why he targetted it). But it was interesting to read a personal account of the actions by McVeigh rather than the media hyped broadcasts that make anyone afraid to say his name aloud…
In the book, Vidal mentioned that McVeigh asked for a speedy execution for he feared that in prison, he would be sodomized and abused (even criminals have a code of ethics, and baby-killers are usually tortured and killed). I’m sure the government was happy about his acquiescence to go quietly and quickly…
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:54 amJust out of curiosity. What would some of you do if the govt made it mandatory for every citizen of the US to participate in community service to help the war effort?
Comment by BushSucks — January 22, 2006 @ 11:48 am
Excellent question. I am against the war. If people can opt out of fighting in a war for ‘conscientious objections’, then I would attempt to envoke the same for opting out of any associated service supporting it…
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:58 amJust out of curiosity. What would some of you do if the govt made it mandatory for every citizen of the US to participate in community service to help the war effort?
WWJD?
My belief in Jesus prevents me from helping kill people unless it is in self defense.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:02 pmshieffer is despicable and shameless. But as Rachel Maddow pointed out on the Tucker Carlson show, bin laden has said things that are similar to what Bush has said. I think the Dems ought to take Maddow’s revelation and run with it, turn the tables on the GOP and loudly point out bin laden and bush’s similar remarks. Beat them at their own game.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:04 pmHe didn’t know there was a day care facility in the Murrah Building
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:05 pmIs there a reason why he didn’t know?
we should be asking if Bush is echoing Saddam and other dictators when he says he whatever power he deems necessary… I’ll give you a hint – the answer is a positive one…
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:07 pmThank’s #161 – I never saw it this way, where his speedy execution was concerned, nor did I know of this book.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:08 pmHow to deal with GOP strategy of comparing Dems to Bin Ladin and all that garbage: Tell America from which playbook they are reading.
“Naturally, the common people don’t want war, but they can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. Tell them they are being attacked, and denounce opposition for lack of patriotism and endangering the country. It works the same in every country.”
Herman Goering
Reichsmarschall of the Third Reich
The GOP is employing the same political strategy as the Nazis.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:09 pmpower he deems necessary… I’ll give you a hint – the answer is a positive one…
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:10 pmPositive? How So?
The link to feedback on Bob Schieffer is no longer functional. I suppose they don’t want feedback. Bob Schieffer has drunk the koolaid of the corporate power structure and knows where his bread is buttered. It’s very disappointing to see even some of these veteran generation of reporters sell their souls.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:18 pmUSA > Domestic Politics
from the January 20, 2006 edition
THREE CONTENDERS: Vying to replace Rep. Tom DeLay as House majority leader are (from left) Reps. Roy Blunt of Missouri, John Shadegg of Arizona, and John Boehner of Ohio.
FREDDIE LEE/FOX NEWS/AP (LEFT AND RIGHT); HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES/AP (CENTER)
GOP looks for white knight to lead House
Roy Blunt’s allies say he has the votes to be elected majority leader, but battle over ethics complicates the picture.
By Gail Russell Chaddock | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:19 pmNow you know where The Christian Science Monitor Gets its News.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:21 pmFOX NEWS
Just out of curiosity. What would some of you do if the govt made it mandatory for every citizen of the US to participate in community service to help the war effort?
Comment by BushSucks
Go to prison…
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:23 pmMSNBC
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:25 pmUpdated: 9:59 p.m. ET Jan. 19, 2006
David Shuster
MSNBC Correspondent
Until recently, members of Congress couldn’t resist accepting money and gifts from super lobbyist Jack Abramoff. Now that Abramoff has pleaded guilty to bribery and conspiracy, lawmakers are trying to pass lobbying reform as quickly as possible. But as they scramble to convince voters they care about the smell coming from Abramoff and his associates, the scandal continues. HARDBALL correspondent David Shuster reported about the recent events leading up to the White House’s admission about Abramoff’s access to staff meetings.
Just out of curiosity. What would some of you do if the govt made it mandatory for every citizen of the US to participate in community service to help the war effort?
Is This a Free Thought or a Mandatory one?
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:27 pmIt was pretty good though. And I think we all share the same fears. Which is why we need to demand an independent counsel into the workings behind the war in Iraq, and we need to compile articles of Impeachment.
Comment by WORFEUS #70
WORFEUS,
Then we’d all better get busy helping out amd donating to our local Democrat Party chapters…
No Democrat majority in ‘06, NO ACCOUNTABILITY…
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:27 pmI’m not surprised to see unbelievable defending McVeigh.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:29 pmhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032542/site/newsweek/
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:31 pmNewsweek reported this. I wonder,Does OBL Know? Of course he does. hes not stupid.
Predator and Prey
More than four years after 9/11, bin Laden issues another threat. Can new technology help to silence him?
David Hume Kennerly / Getty Images
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:34 pmRumsfeld tours Lithuania’s KGB Museum, a torture site during the Stalin era, in October 2005
aawww, the parrot strikes back and to do some more Tracerts.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:36 pmyou evil big brother.
He didn’t know there was a day care facility in the Murrah Building
Is there a reason why he didn’t know?
Comment by jackovel — January 22, 2006 @ 12:05 pm
I’m afraid I don’t recall exactly, but I think it was a new service in the building and not yet listed… something along those lines.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:36 pmI must leave now
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:36 pmI hear that ruffian kid from The Simpsons, Nelson, got killed in Iraq. His dad finally did show up, at the yard to view his remains and sign some papers. There was some death benefits coming his way but he told them to keep it and invest in some body armour for the troops. Sober for second day running for the first time in eighteen years. On the long bus ride back to Hiddensville he was thinking.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:39 pmThank’s #161 – I never saw it this way, where his speedy execution was concerned, nor did I know of this book.
Comment by BushSucks — January 22, 2006 @ 12:08 pm
Vidal himself was surprised that the book was published in this country at all – but credits corporate greed’s willingness to shoot itself in its own foot to make a buck.
It’s called Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace… 2002 (160pp.)
A quote from the book sums it up “I have always said to myself that if there had not been a Waco, there would not have been an Oklahoma City.” Dr. John Smith, McVeigh’s psychiatrist.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:44 pmThe site did not appear to work. I tried several times to leave this comment.
I am troubled by comparisons of Bin Laden to Michael Moore made by your news caster Bob Schieffer.
There are those familiar with Bin Laden who doubt this tape is authentic from the standpoint of its message. While they say yes, it is his voice, they say he would not say these things.
However, regardless of the content, Michael Moore has never been anything but a Patriotic American, as are his audience.
You imply dangerous ideas when such statements go unchallenged.
Perhaps the debacle which is Iraq has gone so horribly wrong that many people see it in the same light. Perhaps it is only the Bush supporters who see it as noble. Most Americans do not.
When the majority of Americans and Bin Laden see things the same way, it is perhaps the administration which needs to look at why it continues to put its head in the sand.
Has the news become a mouthpiece for George Bush?
Do the networks consider George Bush to be America?
George Bush is NOT America. Americans are! And, many of us see his policies as some of the most dangerous of historical record.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:45 pmThe GOP is employing the same political strategy as the Nazis.
Comment by The Truth — January 22, 2006 @ 12:09 pm
Probably because they are Nazis… :)
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:47 pmUSA Patriot – There is no crime with defending America against terrorist. However, it is a crime to break the law or the Constitution, which is what Bush has done.
You should perhaps read the constitution. There is NOTHING in there that states he can do what he is doing. The LAW says it is illegal, therefore he broke the law. NO IF’S AND’S OR BUT’S.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:47 pmMichael Moore has never been anything like a Patriotic American.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:47 pmI’m not surprised to see unbelievable defending McVeigh.
Comment by USA Patriot — January 22, 2006 @ 12:29 pm
And I’m not surprised to see you responding to facts and logic with fear mongering wallace.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:49 pmI’m rubber, you’re glue..
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:51 pm#190 – You and your Clinton arguments. Perhaps you should get back into your little time machine and return back to 2006. We are not living in 1998 anymore. You guys tried to Impeach Clinton for a personal matter. You lost, so give it up. If Clinton had done more of these crimes, then they would have came out in other ways. All politicians are corrupt.
However, there is a difference between someone being corrupt and someone destroying the Constitution. Bush is doing that. Show me where Clinton circumvented the Constitution? JUST SHOWM ME.
By the way….. Your party in no way supports the troops. Here is some examples of your GREAT SUPPORT.
1) Failing to provide proper armorment.
2) Forcing ETS personnel to find their own way home.
3) Charging wounded soldiers $8 a day for food while in a military hospital.
4) Shipping the dead home as cargo on civilian planes, rather than in a military plane wrapped in a flag and accompanied by the Honor Gaurd.
Yeah, the Republicans really support the troops.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:54 pmHave there been a bunch of posts deleted??? The post I made referencing #190 was to US Patriot, but that post number changed.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:57 pmNotice that when I said the exact same thing as unbelievable, Judd deleted mine but not hers, showing his blatant bias and hypocrisy.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:58 pm#192,
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:58 pmThere were.
I’m rubber, you’re glue..
Comment by WaltTheMan — January 22, 2006 @ 12:51 pm
Yes, so it seems… There was a reason I chose to teach high school and not primary school. And this is pretty much it.
It should be interesting to see how the polls reflect this Osama tape, and what hype the White House puppeted media will do to spin it out of control. And when do the people realize that they are being played yet again? Or is this dizzying carousel ride just for fun to them?
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:59 pm“You guys tried to Impeach Clinton for a personal matter. ”
Perjury is not a personal matter.
Bush has not circumvented the Constitution, that’s nothing but hysterical blather.
January 22nd, 2006 at 12:59 pmHave there been a bunch of posts deleted??? The post I made referencing #190 was to US Patriot, but that post number changed.
Comment by RemoveBush — January 22, 2006 @ 12:57 pm
Notice that when I said the exact same thing as unbelievable, Judd deleted mine but not hers, showing his blatant bias and hypocrisy.
Comment by USA Patriot — January 22, 2006 @ 12:58 pm
This is why wallace was banned for a few weeks – seems he didn’t learn his lesson.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:02 pmIt’s funny that Democrats are not concerned that Kerry and bin Ladin are using the same talking points, but that a reporter pointed it out.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:03 pmI learned long ago that liberals do not tolerate any dissent and do not respectthe principle of free speech.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:04 pmJudd,
While I’m all for free speech… I’m also for freedom FROM speech. Instead of black text, can wallace’s messages be posted in white text?
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:08 pmUSA Patriot – You still have not provided proof as to what law or where in the Constitution Bush has the authority to spy on Americans.
SHOW ME THE PROOF. Here is mine:
Amendment IV – Search and seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Amendment VIII – Cruel and Unusual punishment. Ratified 12/15/1791.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Amendment IX – Construction of Constitution. Ratified 12/15/1791.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:09 pmUSA Patriot is always rigth, everybody else is wrong.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:09 pmyour turn
The Democrats are not concerned about Kerry. In 2007, the democratic Speaker of the House will become President. The current administration’s effort to create a temporary boom by bringing some troops home will fail.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:09 pmLong ago, I learned not to trust anything this adminstration says or does. Note that the recent Ben Lauden tape is without pictures. Leads me to think it orginated with forces friendly to the Bushcovites. He always surfaces when Bush is in serious doo doo as he is now over the wiretapping of American Citizens. Before I would believe word one of any of this I would need independent proof from sources other than MM. They are all in bed with the Bushcovites.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:13 pmOn another note, the set of pictures of Tweety and Osama on Michael Moore’s website are more than worth a look. He has it set up so you can email them. I suggest everyone send them to Hardball@msnbc.com attention of Tweety with an appropriate note. And remember as noted on DKos…”THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT IS OSAMA LIGHT!”
It’s pretty clear that the lesson that should be learned form Osama is escaping the average television viewer, and the military in general. We should be more like Switzerland who is neutral in the political world and does not fund contras or guerillas in other countries.
Teach a man to fish and he will feed himself.
Teach a man to shoot an assault weapon and he will fly planes into your skyscrapers.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:15 pmI posted this before, but I don’t see anybody commenting on this. I find it odd that everybody here is focused on Bin Laden stating Democratic talking points, when clearly he is stating right wing talking points also.
1. Conditions in Iraq are improving everyday. God Bless you all.
2. Withdrawing our troops from Iraq sends the wrong message to the enemy and makes us look weak.
3. Iraq is a breeding ground for terrorist. We are fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here.
4. The US will accept nothing less than total victory in the Global War on Terror. This is a generational war.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:15 pm
crime doesn’t pay. maybe. bush hasn’t learned that yet.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:24 pmIts all about the Greed and Oil Spudge. Here is an interesting brief History of TRUE Freedom
A Brief History of Mohandas K. Gandhi
by Richard Attenborough
Mohandas K. Gandhi was born in 1869 to Hindu parents in the state of Gujarat in Western India. He entered an arranged marriage with Kasturbai Makanji when both were 13 years old. His family later sent him to London to study law, and in 1891 he was admitted to the Inner Temple, and called to the bar. In Southern Africa he worked ceaselessly to improve the rights of the immigrant Indians. It was there that he developed his creed of passive resistance against injustice, satyagraha, meaning truth force, and was frequently jailed as a result of the protests that he led. Before he returned to India with his wife and children in 1915, he had radically changed the lives of Indians living in Southern Africa.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:25 pmBack in India, it was not long before he was taking the lead in the long struggle for independence from Britain. He never wavered in his unshakable belief in nonviolent protest and religious tolerance. When Muslim and Hindu compatriots committed acts of violence, whether against the British who ruled India, or against each other, he fasted until the fighting ceased. Independence, when it came in 1947, was not a military victory, but a triumph of human will. To Gandhi’s despair, however, the country was partitioned into Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan. The last two months of his life were spent trying to end the appalling violence which ensued, leading him to fast to the brink of death, an act which finally quelled the riots. In January 1948, at the age of 79, he was killed by an assassin as he walked through a crowed garden in New Delhi to take evening prayers. end of Attenborough’s summary
You have to wonder what OBL is trying to accomplish with this tape. Is he trying to strengthen Bush by discrediting the left? Why? Does he believe that if we withdraw his power will fade because he will lack an enemy to rally his peeps around?
Who knows — but it is fun to watch the left squirm on this one.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:31 pm# THE POOR HAVE NO FIGHTING CHANCE OF WINNING THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF THE RICH. THIS IS A TRUE STATEMENT.
SO, THE POOR MUST FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE RICH!
Comment by Flashback — January 22, 2006 @ 10:49 am
For they rich with material things hath no heart and see darkly where they should see light.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:34 pmFlashback,
I am a PR person I know exactly what bin Laden is doing and it is working. I just find it funny that the people of Think Progress are focused on the Democratic talking points and I am the only one who sees the Republican ones.
He is talking out of both sides of his mouth to cause a divide in this country and the Republicans want to blame it on Democrats and everybody here is going along with it. Wierd.
Bush started this divide a long time ago, but now the Conservative media can blame it on somebody else. Can you say that the country is getting more divided because of this audio tape from bin Laden? No! We were divided long before this tape.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:34 pmWho knows — but it is fun to watch the left squirm on this one.
Comment by Concerned Conservative — January 22, 2006 @ 1:31 pm
So much for that compassionate conservativism… Just get home from church?
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:35 pmPatriot define your version of a Liberal, and why you think all people posting are as you Seem to think.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:37 pmYour ASSUMING nature reveals much about your inherent bias
Who do you think released the tape and why, Spudge.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:37 pm“Concerned Conservative”
You won’t see me squirm. You said it yourself.
The same goes for Bush.
Although I should mention that Osama’s people do it because they want to kill the infidels, while Bush’s followers do it because they are yellow bellied, chicken shit, dumbasses.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:38 pmWORFEUS,
Then we’d all better get busy helping out amd donating to our local Democrat Party chapters…
No Democrat majority in ‘06, NO ACCOUNTABILITY…
Comment by big papa — January 22, 2006 @ 12:27 pm
Agreed big papa. I just hope we show some common sense and stand up someone with a little more substance then Hillary Clinton.
I have to admit I was really impressed with Obama on Meet the Press this morning, so he may be a good one. Also Paul Hackett. I really like Paul Hackett.
And personally I like Howard Dean but he is freakin me out lately.
But Hillary and her plantation bombs is going to push me away.
Far far away.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:39 pmjackovel,
I think Bush along with his buddy Osama released the tape.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:39 pmeach had different motives?
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:41 pm“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures…”
Surveillance of al Qaeda terrorists calling from overseas into the US is not unreasonable. Such calls do not receive 4th amendment protection. Next.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:41 pmSpudge, are you saying that OBL and Bush are helping each other intentionally?
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:42 pmConspiracy kooks say things like, “I think Bush along with his buddy Osama released the tape.”
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:42 pmWho knows — but it is fun to watch the left squirm on this one.
Comment by Concerned Conservative — January 22, 2006 @ 1:31 pm
The Left? Think about this, the ones squirming are the Bush crisis followers. The People here are not Squirming whatsoever. That squirming would be the FAUX (bush base) watchers and their Terro Alerts. What you and Mr FAUX have failed to realize is that the majority of the people are wise to the crisis management style of Bush and Cry Wolf, or CRISIS!
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:43 pmand watch the Falwellian, Robertson, FAUX chicken littles Squirm.
Fir thats whos squirming isnt it? Those old ladies watching TV. The Fools watching fox news. For the People you ASSUME are liberals are not the Office workers, we live in a Rough tuff World, and if you think Osama Scares, me , or anyone like me. Think Again.
So much for that compassionate conservativism… Just get home from church?
Comment by unbelievable
Compassion is overrated as a virtue.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:44 pm“Concerned Conservative”
Absolutley. Osama was a CIA asset at the same time George H W Bush was the Director of the CIA. The Bush family is very friendly with the bin Ladens. He arranged to fly 12 of them out of the country while every other airplane in the US was grounded after 9/11.
They are good friends and need each other to keep this stupid war going.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:46 pmConspiracy kooks also say things like, “Osama was a CIA asset at the same time George H W Bush was the Director of the CIA. The Bush family is very friendly with the bin Ladens. He arranged to fly 12 of them out of the country while every other airplane in the US was grounded after 9/11.
They are good friends and need each other to keep this stupid war going. “
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:47 pmI posted this before, but I don’t see anybody commenting on this. I find it odd that everybody here is focused on Bin Laden stating Democratic talking points, when clearly he is stating right wing talking points also.
Comment by SpudgeBoy — January 22, 2006 @ 1:15 pm
I agree with you on this and have mentioned earlier that I think one purpose of this tape is to play the parties off of each other.
Following 911, Bin Laden said that the US would come to choke on it’s fear and the freedoms and liberties we taut will be taken away by our own hands because of fear.
Well he clearly played the Bush administration and us like a 50 cent banjo on that one as we hand over freedoms and rights to Bush saying, oh please Mr. President, don’t let Bin Laden hurt us.
Of course, some of the freedoms that we did’nt hand over but were stolen from us like a theif in the night, we are now saying ok, you took those liberties without asking, but we don’t mind. As long as you’re keeping us safe.
This is perhaps the most cowardly I have seen America with regards to the liberties, freedoms and rights we are willing to sacrifice to save our precious butts.
Ben Franklin was a great quote. If we are willing to sacrifice liberties and freedoms our forefathers fought and died for, just to stay safe, then we deserve neither freedom or liberty.
We deserve to be sheep.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:47 pmFor you Patriot speak much about Parties and liberals, and alot of other words, it Boils down to this.
Can your Patriotism to BUSH help you when YOU piss off someone like me with your incessant anti-american Party BS, that I DO NOT CARE about DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS.
Let me me make that very clear. In my neck of the Woods its you and Me bro.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:48 pmif bin Laden says that the sun rises in the east, should we cross that off the list too lest we unamerican? It’s getting hard to remember which thought are allowed now that there’s a war on concepts.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:48 pmJust take a look at the Nimrods standing up with Microphones on CNN right now, asking Dana Bash what must be right winged prepared talking points.
Like a bunch of little lost sheep, and Dana Bash is Bo Peep.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:50 pmunbelievable – i’m surprised your posts with “wall***” are not getting deleted – that’s what happened to me last week – maybe because you left out that extra “w” …but that’s why i refer to it as “wally” (aka parrot) now
maybe that’s what happened to you, removebush…
on another thread, Gerald Gibson (163) left this comment that i thought was very important:
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:50 pmosama “is a Jihadist… where are all his praise be to gods?”
eh??? good question…
Spudge, I thought you were one of the reasonable ones here — and now you are talking about a Bush/OBL conspiracy… yikes!
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:51 pmGreat posts all, for a Sunday morning brain strain, you give this old woman a lot to agree with and also comment on. First off I think BenLauden is still in bed with the Bushies, has been for 30 plus years and nothing new there. The tapes I think are a Rove, Bush phony, scare crap. Remember this bunch will do everything and anything to keep and progress their power and wealth. About Mcveigh and Unbelievables comments I agree, altho he was wrong, I can understand fully how a person can feel totaly helpless and resort to drastict means in hope to accomplish their means. The term freedom fighters comes to mind and what the hell are we doing in Iraq, our oil is still not under their sand and they were never a threat to us. The Bush buddy, Saudi prince and his wife were and still hold hands in Crawford. Cheney’s Hallaburton or brown root/ etal is spending and extorting tons of our dollers tho. Relegion and war are big business. How come we still have not addressed 2200+ of our best have died for a personal and financial vendetta of Bush’s making and thousands more Iraq citizens. How come we still have 350,000 displaced southern citizens struggling to put their lives back together and of that 1,300 missing children. I do hope all of you posting are at least as active as I am, that is informing your representatives of your ideas and displeasure, sign all the patitions that apply to you personaly.Fight if necessary. Lastly on the question of mandatory community service to benefit this war. B*** S***. I am against this war. Go after the guilty not the easy and weak. I have and will keep my guns and ammo and no I will not go to jail with out a fight. Peaceful means untill I am threatend and then I will use like force..Nuf said…..Blessings
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:51 pmUSA Patriot,
Show me proof that any of what I said is untrue. But I know you can’t, because it is true.
Prove any of these untrue:
Osama bi Laden was a CIA asset.
George H W Bush was the Director of the CIA.
Bush was the Director at the same time Osama was an Asset.
The Bush family and the bin Laden family or friendly.
George W Bush arranged for 12 bin Ladens to be flown out of the US while all other air traffic was grounded.
Put your money where you mouth is kook. You are the one with blinders on sh!t for brains.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:52 pmCompassion is overrated as a virtue.
Comment by Concerned Conservative — January 22, 2006 @ 1:44 pm
So, is that what you tell yourself to justify blowing up innocent civilians in the name of Oil?
Why are you neocons so cranky after mass?
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:52 pm“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures…â€
Surveillance of al Qaeda terrorists calling from overseas into the US is not unreasonable. Such calls do not receive 4th amendment protection. Next.
Comment by USA Patriot
Are you litteraly that stupid? It does not say AMERICAN, it says of the PEOPLE. If a person is here visiting America, then they are granted ALL RIGHTS (excluding the right to vote and maybe one or two others)! Geeze perhaps you should go back to school and pick up where you obviously left off from, the 4th grade.
I’m still waiting for your PROOF. I have shown mine, wheres yours?
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:55 pmif bin Laden says that the sun rises in the east, should we cross that off the list too lest we unamerican?
Comment by ouch, my brain — January 22, 2006 @ 1:48 pm
Excellent point. The problem is the Right Wing, (in case no one noticed) is a party of emotion.
It’s a gut check gang. Shoot from the hip, smoke em out, we kill Iraqi’s cause of 911, God want’s us to invade Iraq, blah blah blah.
Democrats are the thinkers, the scientists, the logic and hard facts party.
Problem is, hard facts sound weak sometime next to a weeping mother holding a microphone telling Mr. Bush how safe she feels knowing a good God fearin man like him is in office.
You can’t present reason to someone who gets a warm and fuzzy feeling about carpet bombing.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:57 pm“Concerned Conservative”
Since when have you thought I was one of the reasonable ones? We have never agreed on a damn thing. Name one thing we agree on. Your little attack doesn’t mean sh!t to me.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:57 pmunbelievable – i’m surprised your posts with “wall***†are not getting deleted – that’s what happened to me last week – maybe because you left out that extra “w†…but that’s why i refer to it as “wally†(aka parrot) now
maybe that’s what happened to you, removebush…
Comment by katy — January 22, 2006 @ 1:50 pm
Hmmm… is wallace with the extra w supposed to be dead to us all now? :)
That’s good to know.
January 22nd, 2006 at 1:57 pmunbelievable,
wwallace was banned long ago. SO, he keeps changing his name and continues getting banned. You can clearly see which posts are his. They are the most assinine, childish, postings on this site.
wwallace
wallace
wwall—
wa111ace
No Censorship
USA Patriot
JuddHatesFreeSpeech
These are all the same dumbass.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:00 pmStrikes me as bush doesn’t need bil naden now.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:01 pmhe’s got Iran, Zarquawi, grabbing some oil and assorted bogey men he could make up in an hour.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:03 pmProblem is, hard facts sound weak sometime next to a weeping mother holding a microphone telling Mr. Bush how safe she feels knowing a good God fearin man like him is in office.
Comment by WORFEUS — January 22, 2006 @ 1:57 pm
Good point WORFEUS…
But what about the Cindy Crawfords who are crying into a microphone against the war that he ignores and has arrested for protesting outside of his house without a permit… ? Why don’t they count? Or do they?
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:03 pmGeorge W Bush arranged for 12 bin Ladens to be flown out of the US while all other air traffic was grounded.
Comment by SpudgeBoy — January 22, 2006 @ 1:52 pm
Actually Spudge, it was twice that number. They flew out 24 members of Bin Ladens family without questioning them, not to mention 118 additional Saudi Nationals, 2 days after 911!
If that does not reak of a cover up, I don’t know what does.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:05 pmjackovel,
Sure he does. Bush needs to keep the masses scared. Scared of terroroists, scared of attacks, scared of bombs.
Rove came out and said security will be the number one focus for the ‘06 elections. You know, continuing to tell people in the US that the bad guys are going to get us, so we need to give no-bid contracts to Haliburton to protect us.
Osama releasing a tape at the same time as Rove’s speech just backs up what Rove was saying. The timing could not have been better.
Good job Rove and Osama.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:06 pmYou’re operating under the false assumption that the surveillance is only people calling or getting calls from Al-Qaeda. If that were the case, why was the government so afraid of having to prove it?
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:06 pmWhy don’t they count? Or do they?
Comment by unbelievable — January 22, 2006 @ 2:03 pm
Oh didn’t you know? Only republican emotions are worthy of respect.
Moms who lost kids in the war and then want to cry about it are just cowards and traitors.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:07 pmand Iraq. No need of bin laden’s help there.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:08 pmOh didn’t you know? Only republican emotions are worthy of respect.
Moms who lost kids in the war and then want to cry about it are just cowards and traitors.
Comment by WORFEUS — January 22, 2006 @ 2:07 pm
Oh, I see… Selective everything, eh?
So when do Jenna and Barbara leave for Iraq with their shoddy equipment?
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:10 pmWORFEUS,
Wow, 24 that’s more than I thought. Sheesh, that is a huge number! But it isn’t that large considering that the bin Laden family is very large.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:10 pmwow, unbelievable – that was an interesting brain twist you did there in #242 … i’m guessing you meant cindy sheehan…she would be so flattered! that was cute!
as for wally – i was told he keeps changing his email address also, to avoid the ban…slick wally…
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:11 pmWhy did your media give the tape such stellar coverage?
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:11 pmjackovel,
Because our conservative media will do anything Bush wants.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:12 pmSurveillance of al Qaeda terrorists calling from overseas into the US is not unreasonable. Such calls do not receive 4th amendment protection. Next.
Comment by USA Patriot — January 22, 2006 @ 1:41 pm
What everyone is missing, is what Bush was hinting at when he spoke of the central telephone exchanges as he called them.
Most phone calls out of LATA in the US go through Digital switches now, and as you know, once data, any data, becomes digital, then it can be stored and searched on a wide variety of parameters.
What he is trying to brace us all for, is that ALL US phone calls that cross the bellcore switches are being warehoused for later data mining efforts.
Down the road, when they have manipulated the law to use this data for non terrorist related activities, (something they actually have already done), then they can come after people for all sorts of stuff using this warehoused data.
The spying scandal is currently the greatest threat to our way of life, and I wish people would start acting like it.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:13 pmThe GREATEST THREAT
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:15 pmNot you people BTW, I am talking about the Security Moms and their offspring.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:16 pm#253, 254
Good point. Have you noticed the Google story hasn’t been in the news much, especially compared to the media’s desire to compare Osama to everyone who disagrees with Bush on anything?
Olbermann covered the story and pointed out that Google’s stock fell dramatically when they refused to go along with Big Brother, but that’s about it.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:18 pmwow, unbelievable – that was an interesting brain twist you did there in #242 … i’m guessing you meant cindy sheehan…she would be so flattered! that was cute!
Yeah, I’m right-brain dominant, so I tend to do that with details sometimes when I’m going fast… You’re right, I did mean Cindy Sheehan. Bush lives in Crawford, Texas. And there is a Cindy Crawford… ooops!
as for wally – i was told he keeps changing his email address also, to avoid the ban…slick wally…
Comment by katy — January 22, 2006 @ 2:11 pm
Oh really… He’s not hard to pick out… Not very clever.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:18 pmIf anyone thinks I’m wrong, muse back to 2003, when the talk of not having enough NSA analysts to sift through the millions of hours of phone calls warehoused digitially at NSA, saturated the news.
We knew then, but we just did’nt care I guess.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:20 pmBecause our conservative media will do anything Bush wants.
I agree about that. How did the media explain their motives in giving such extended coverage of the release of this tape, to their audience who don”t believe that?
yeah, to justify the spying he needs bin laden.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:20 pmI wasn’t clear – just the question
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:22 pmHave you noticed the Google story hasn’t been in the news much, especially compared to the media’s desire to compare Osama to everyone who disagrees with Bush on anything?
Comment by Fight the power — January 22, 2006 @ 2:18 pm
Yes I have. I am surprised the Feds have’nt closed down Google yet for noncompliance.
One things for sure, anyone not recognizing the sheer COURAGE of the folks at Google right now needs to take another look at what constitutes courage.
These guys are heros.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:22 pm“…Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires — a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we’re talking about chasing down terrorists, we’re talking about getting a court order before we do so. It’s important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution.” bush 2004
see/hear it sor yourself: http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/20/bush-caught-on-tape/#comments
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:26 pmThese guys are heros.
Comment by WORFEUS — January 22, 2006 @ 2:22 pm
Uh, WORF, I don’t think liberals can be heros either… Should we look it up in our Big Brother handbook?
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:26 pmSpudge
One flight, the so-called Bin Ladin flight, departed the United States on September 20 with 26 passengers, most of them relatives of Usama Bin Ladin.
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:26 pmThreats and Responses in 2001
Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12
Yea,
In the republican version of Websters Hero is a dual meaning word.
Hero (Repbulican) Brave, Courageous, Stallwart, Heroic
Hero (Democrat) Coward, Traitor, Usurper, Enemy Sympathizer
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:28 pmworfeus – “One things for sure, anyone not recognizing the sheer COURAGE of the folks at Google right now needs to take another look at what constitutes courage”
agreed, whole-heartedly! that’s why i sent them a message of sincere thanks!
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:30 pmWORFEUS and Fight the power. I sent an e-mail to Judd about the Google case.
I think you guys are correct. The Google story is one of the most important stories happening right now. This si a total invasion of our privacy.
If anybody here thinks that the federal government doesn’t understand how search engines work and what people’s search habits are, you have you head in the sand.
This is an attack on the Internet.
Mybe that is why our resident trolls never provide any proof with their bullsh!t statements. Because they know that searching for..
Will get you tagged by the NSA.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:32 pmWell I switched to Google Katy so I would’nt be spyed on LOL.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:32 pmThe Google story is one of the most important stories happening right now. This si a total invasion of our privacy.
Comment by SpudgeBoy — January 22, 2006 @ 2:32 pm
Now were talking.
I am moving over to JUDDS new thread where McCain says that Bush did NOT have the authority.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:35 pmLook, 911 killed 3000 Americans.
Every year 50,000 Americans are killed by DUI’s, but I don’t see a war on Liquor going on.
We still sell it.
Bush’s War on Terror is really a War on Freedom.
Nothing more.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:38 pmSomeone – maybe Chomsky – was saying that the internet would be next, and that they’d censor or control it in the name of stopping child pornography or terrorism or something equally insideous but trivial.
I have no doubt, this is the last bastion of freedom we have. In here we are able to connect and discuss. Isolation is a necessary part of their plan. They have to destroy our connections to one another…
Yet, I don’t see it stopping any of us from speaking our minds and signing petitions and so forth. I guess according to the Republican version WORFEUS mentioned, we’re all cowards and traitors too…
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:39 pmSpudge, it’s not up to me to prove a negative. If you want to play that game, prove you’re not an agent of al Qaeda. LOL
RemoveBush, You have not shown the surveillance of al Qaeda suspects was “unreasonable.”
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:41 pmOk I’m naive – but why can’t we take the tape at face value? If OBL actually cares about his fellow Muslims he can’t be happy seeing all the destruction in Iraq and the imminent civil war. And the US is helping prop up the Afgahn warlords. I think his main goal has always been to get the US out of the Muslim world, so if can achieve this with a “truce” I have no reason tp think he wouldn’t (by the way I think for him a truce means the US getting the hell of out Iraq and Afghanistan).
And I don’t see any “code” in the tape – it’s pretty obvious that someone swimming in the sea doesn’t worry about getting rained on (it’s a metaphor!), and the ’shadow of swords’ is just a flowery way of saying ‘give me liberty or give me death’.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:42 pmJudd,
While I’m all for free speech… I’m also for freedom FROM speech. Instead of black text, can wallace’s messages be posted in white text?
Comment by unbelievable — January 22, 2006 @ 1:08 pm
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:43 pmGood one unbelievable.
Spudge,,, prove you’re not an agent of al Qaeda. LOL
Comment by USA Patriot — January 22, 2006 @ 2:41 pm
What is this amazing propensity for conservatives who NEVER served to smear those who have?
I will never understand how they get away with this.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:47 pmMore odds greater than being killed by a terrorist…
Odds of fatally slipping in bath or shower: 2,232 to 1
Odds of being killed sometime in the next year in any sort of transportation accident: 77 to 1
Odds of being considered possessed by Satan: 7,000 to 1
Odds of being on plane with a drunken pilot: 117 to 1
Chance of dying from intentional self-harm: 1 in 9,380
Chance that Earth will experience a catastrophic collision with an asteroid in the next 100 years: 1 in 5,000
Chance of dying from being bitten by a dog: 1 in 700,000
Chance of having a stroke: 1 in 6
Chance of dying from heart disease: 1 in 3
Chance of American man developing cancer in his lifetime: 1 in 2
Chance of an American woman developing cancer in her lifetime: 1 in 3
Chance of getting prostate cancer: 1 in 6
Chance of getting breast cancer: 1 in 9
Chance of getting colon / rectal cancer: 1 in 26
courtesy of http://funny2.com/odds.htm
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:47 pmGood one unbelievable.
Comment by Flashback — January 22, 2006 @ 2:43 pm
Thanks… (I was serious too :)
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:50 pmGood one. Now prove you’re not a stupid fvck.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:55 pmIt’s really no surprise when unbelievable wants anything to be “all white.”
WORFEUS, I didn’t smear anyone.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:57 pmSpudge and WORFEUS both just smeared me. LOL
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:58 pmSpudge,,, prove you’re not an agent of al Qaeda. LOL
Comment by USA Patriot — January 22, 2006 @ 2:41 pm
Oh, that’s right. I forgot, Al Queda is your friend. They keep the war fires burning and the war chest full.
I guess in your mind, comparing Spudge to Al Qaeda was not a slur.
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:04 pmIs Ryan Neat banned again or still.? I do miss his posts…..Blessings
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:05 pmIt’s really no surprise when unbelievable wants anything to be “all white.â€
Comment by USA Patriot — January 22, 2006 @ 2:57 pm
Yes, wallace, that’s right, because I’m currently in a White Supremicist site demanding we make black folks sit in the back of the bus again…
You do know where you are don’t you?
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:08 pmSharon,
I read a post by Judd that said that Ryan and wallace had been temporarily banned for repeated site violations. And I guess from what Ryan has posted as well, they got into an argument over it and now both want an apology or something that’s put the matter at a stalemate…
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:12 pmhuh – i can just see that sh*t eatin’ grin on “wally the parrot’s” mug when he read that question, sharon…
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:12 pmi’m not positive it was a “ban” per se…but i’m pretty sure that ryan’s been posting, just not as “ryan”…his style has tempered also, and that’s good…
i’m just guessing here…
unbelievable, “You do know where you are don’t you?”
Yes, I know exactly where I am. I know exactly how liberals like you really feel about race.
wwallace was banned because of political bias, not for any site rule violations. Liberals are very intolerant of dissent.
WORFEUS, I didn’t compare Spudge to al Qaeda.
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:17 pmWORFEUS, I didn’t compare Spudge to al Qaeda.
Comment by USA Patriot — January 22, 2006 @ 3:17 pm
Spudge,,, prove you’re not an agent of al Qaeda. LOL
Comment by USA Patriot — January 22, 2006 @ 2:41 pm
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:22 pmIs there an echo in here?
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:23 pmbin laden is still breathing, saddam runs iraq’s court system, and the anthrax killer is a distant memory-those are not bragging points for bush and co. i wish i could give the dems talking points for food, but that would be taking a bribe.
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:25 pm… is not a statement of comparison. It isn’t even a statement. WORFEUS is clearly illiterate.
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:25 pmYes, I know exactly where I am. I know exactly how liberals like you really feel about race.
I doubt that. But you’re free to ask my friends.
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:29 pmIt isn’t even a statement. WORFEUS is clearly illiterate.
Comment by USA Patriot — January 22, 2006 @ 3:25 pm
Well, if something you said does not qualify as a statement, would’nt that make you illiterate?
Just a thought :|
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:39 pmunbelievable, “I doubt that. But you’re free to ask my friends.”
Why? Are they racists too?
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:48 pmWORFEUS, “Well, if something you said does not qualify as a statement, would’nt that make you illiterate?”
Uh, no. LOL
A question is not a statement, for example. The fact you don’t know this makes you illiterate. LOL
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:50 pmPosted over at crooks and liars first:
“sorry, but this is necessarily lengthy…
The following test is designed to allow you to evaluate your personal ability to discern the truth about various statements. If your mind is truly open and you are well informed, the answer to each question should be easily chosen.
Please keep in mind this test has been sent to you in all seriousness as it pertains to persons involved in shaping World events.
Below, you will find a series of over twenty statements describing traits attributable to President George W. Bush or Terrorist Osama Bin Laden or both. There is a space following each statement for your answer.
If the statement more closely describes our President, in the space provided but a ‘B’ for Bush.
If the statement more closely describes Osama, in the space provided, put a ‘B’ for Bin Laden.
If the statement would clearly describe either one equally well, in the space provided, put a ‘B’ for both.
If you would care to send me your answers, I will get back to you promptly with your score… or you may wish to self evaluate?
let us begin…
1 – He truly believes God is on his side and has given him a sacred assignment. ____
2 – He projects absolute certainty concerning his actions and decisions. ____
3 – He trusts very few allies. ____
4 – He keeps an inner circle of like minded individuals. ____
5 – He ‘preaches to the converted’. ____
6 – He is very secretive about many things. ____
7 – He will easily use the deceit necessary to achieve his ends. ____
8 – He habitually demonizes the opposition. ____
9 – He is unwilling or unable to see from the other person’s point of view. ____
10 – He shows great pride in the power he controls. ____
11 – He believes, without reservation, in the moral superiority of himself and his group. ____
12 – He accepts the necessity of innocent death in furthering his goals. ____
13 – He often shows scorn for those who disagree with his methods. ____
14 – He is self appointed as a moral leader. ____
15 – He is relentless in pursuing what he feels is right. ____
16 – He and his inner circle manipulate the trust of the religious so they follow his direction. ____
17 – He has unlimited financial backing from those who hope to gain from his power. ____
18 – He holds personal grudges against those who do not support him. ____
19 – While not usually using the words of a braggart, he often displays the swagger of one. ____
20 – He sometimes has a problem keeping in check a natural tendency to smirk. ____
21 – He really really loves being underestimated. ____
22 – He and his followers are surprisingly adept at using modern technology. ____
23 – He has separated himself philosophically from his familial father in favor of a higher one. ____
24 – In the opinion of most of the World, he is a very dangerous individual. ____
25 – He spends most of his time hidden away in a cave. ____ …oops… wait a minute… that’s ‘Cheney’ and Osama…
OK, does this mean I think Bush is a terrorist? Of course not. However, it sure appears he tends to think like one. That’s not a good thing is it?
Also, might you agree, it’s not a good thing for a leader to make decisions based upon ‘gut instinct’ rather than upon empirical data, history, knowledge and experience… unless, of course, the ‘gut’ is being informed by messages directly from God. All those who think that God has actually chosen GWB and is directing his choices, please raise their hands… well, then how about Cheney, is he being directed by Cheney? Ah, I see a few hands on that one.
Cheney has an evil sneer though. Where does that come from I wonder…
I better quit. I’m beginning to sound like Al Franken. LLP”
I would like to add that the PNAC people would like to thank Osama for the new pearl harbor. Or reichstag fire…
January 22nd, 2006 at 3:51 pmDSM, you lefties are sure spending a lot of effort trying to deflect from the fact OBL and the Democrats are reading from the same talking points. LOL
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:00 pmThe entire mainstream media seems to be spending a lot of time ignoring the valid point that DSM just made. These lackeys in the media need to watch “The Power of Nightmares” to find out how similar the neocons and Al-Qaeda really are.
They also seem to be ignoring the part of Bin Laden’s speech where he said another attack is coming. Cheney and Bush are always talking about not wanting to get hit again. It seems like he only talks about the threat of terrorism happening here when he knows there is no real chance of it happening. That way he always looks like he’s protecting us, even if he’s protecting us from morons with blowtorches. All the talk about “fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here” has saved ZERO American lives.
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:13 pmIMO the long-standing relationship between the Bush family and the Saudis are under all of the propaganda with video and audio tapes. Bush needs OBL to remain “out there” as an eternal enemy, so he can maintain his power over the people of America – our saviour. Three and a half years after 9/11, tho we supposedly have the best surveillance in the world, we cannot locate OBL — we knew where he was in Afghanistan, yet when the troops got too close, they were told to go to Iraq and leave the Afghanistan border to the local tribesmen, where he was “lost.” These tapes turn up too conveniently for Bush (IMO) – they emphasize the division in our country, which Bush thrives upon. As long as he maintains power, even by one, he can do whatever he pleases. He is the imperial president, and we stand by watching our democracy die.
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:14 pmThe CBS site to Emails seems to be shut down. I tried the link here and I tried separately – both failed.
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:15 pmMarie is regurgitating crazy conspiracy theories.
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:17 pmIn his blog entry today, James Kroeger (The Republican Nemesis) explains what Osama Bin Laden is really up to with his latest taped message to America: http://nontrivialpursuits.org/WordPress
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:28 pmWhy? Are they racists too?
Comment by USA Patriot — January 22, 2006 @ 3:48 pm
Especially the non-white ones…
You don’t even make sense. You hang out with people who don’t enjoy your company. Don’t you think that’s a bit self-degrading? No matter how much they are paying you to post here?
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:04 pmunbelievable thinks being around anyone who disagrees with her is “degrading”. Very strange, but not unexpected.
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:10 pmunbelievable thinks being around anyone who disagrees with her is “degradingâ€. Very strange, but not unexpected.
Comment by USA Patriot — January 22, 2006 @ 5:10 pm
That’s not what I said. How stupid do you really think people are to forget what they just read one post prior and instead buy your twisted and inaccurate interpretation of it? Seriously wallace, you must not get invited to any parties…
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:14 pmThat is what you said.
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:15 pmI said “You hang out with people who don’t enjoy your company.”
Point out the word ‘disagree’ in the sentance above and I’ll apologize.
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:18 pmYour implication was quite clear.
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:22 pmYour intolerance is quite clear.
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:24 pmYour bigotry is quite clear.
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:24 pmI said “You hang out with people who don’t enjoy your company.â€
Point out the word ‘disagree’ in the sentance above.
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:38 pmYou can’t. Because I didn’t say that.
It has nothing to do with ‘disagree’.
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:40 pmIt has nothing to do with ‘disagree’.
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Comment by USA Patriot — January 22, 2006 @ 5:42 pm
Well, clearly based on your terse replies, you’re not getting paid by the letter.
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:54 pmBob Schieffer has been a right wing Pro Bush propagandist for five years.
January 22nd, 2006 at 6:10 pmOsama Bin Laden’s organization endorsed George W bush in 2004 and AL QAEDA WANTS the republicans in charge of America. It is no accident that Bin Laden is sending videotapes that are designed to try and help George W Bush. Although this is not the case, it almost seems as if the two have a direct phoneline to each other and are working hand in hand.
These insults are an attempt to change the subject from corruption to terrorism. It’s a classic Rove-style attack. This needs to be addressed, but don’t give them the satisfaction of backing off the scandals.
January 22nd, 2006 at 6:54 pmBut Hillary and her plantation bombs is going to push me away.
Far far away.
Comment by WORFEUS #216
WORFEUS,
Hillary’s plantation remark was nothing more than the truth…
Once again, squeamish (about racism) Progressives are allowing the right wing, scumbag, facist, racist Bushites to shape the debate…
The da*n republiscum majority under Dummbbb DeLay HAS run the House like a plantation…
… stifling dissent, changing the rules to perpetuate their privilege, twisting arms and holding open votes til the wee hours of the morning, adding last minute attachments and pushing bills through without the opposition having the benefit of reading it, meeting only with republiscum members in conference committees…
That kind of behavior is EXACTLY how slave masters acted with their slaves…slaves had NO VOICE and in Dummb DeLay and Bushiva’sHouse neither do the DEMS!
The time has come to dismantle the WASP male dominated minority rule government and racist privilege in racist America!
We need to confront this, and I’m glad Hillary used the analogy…
Don’t let the IRIs, T’rashies, USEless Patsies, and Scary Pookbutts frame the discussion…keep the pressure on, and STAND UNITED NO MATTER WHO WINS THE DEM NOMINATION!
It’s more important to defeat the real enemy, the right wing, racist, criminally corrupt, mass murdering Troglodytes who’ve hijacked our government…
January 22nd, 2006 at 6:56 pmBin Laden sounds like the Republican bigots who whip up the country into a frenzy over phony religious “wars”, are against rights for women, want a Theocracy, ect. I sent them a handy dandy list of the comparisons next time they want to compare any Americans to Bin Laden.
January 22nd, 2006 at 7:05 pmEt tu Schieffer? Have you added your voice to those who casually smear democrats at the drop of a hat?
Comment by Alvord #144
Alvord,
Heard that Bob Schieffer is going to have an “exclusive” interview with Bushiva next week on CBS…
He’s just warming up his lips so that they’ll be nice and toasty for Bushiva’s a*s…
January 22nd, 2006 at 7:06 pmNo, with all due respect Big Papa, I do not in the least base that on anything coming from the right.
It sickens me that she gives them something like that so obviously canned, so obviously prepared, and so blatantly patronizing, and attention grabbing for news headlines.
Hillary plays to the crowd in the room, and if it had been republicans she would be crying war war war.
That Hillary wants badly to be President is clear.
Whether she would be a good President I cannot of course say for sure.
But her willingness to sell out true democratic values for cheap parlor tricks for press attention, did nothing more than solidify a mind already made up.
I would not vote for Hillary. Not at this point. If she runs, there are millions of liberals who think like I do. We don’t want someone who wants to be President, we want someone who deserves to be President. And we want a liberal who votes like a liberal, walks, talks and thinks like a liberal.
If the dems give Hillary the nod, I think I will do like Bill did, and Cheat on her.
January 22nd, 2006 at 7:08 pmOf the Democrats are going to win, it’s not going to be with a Democrat sounding like a watered down republican.
Clinton was the anti-thesis of Bush, and he ran on the SMART Liberal ticket. And it worked. Technology was growing, our workers were getting smarter, our country was getting smarter, so we wanted a smarter President.
That same ticket will work in 08, if we play it.
But if we try to sell the country a candidate on the basis that this candidate will do the same things as republicans only not as bad, then we will loose again.
January 22nd, 2006 at 7:13 pmThe Democrats need on good central talking point to counter the one major talking point of the Republicans.
And it is this.
They claim to be tougher.
We need to play the intelligence card.
That card is trump. Cause intelligence beats out tough everytime.
Technology has proven that time and time again. If you are smart, in the end you will domintate even the mightiest of creatures.
Play the smart card, and watch the masses run from the incompetent bumbling blockheads.
January 22nd, 2006 at 7:17 pmI certainly believe that BOTH PARTIES are in deep trouble. It is going to get down to another chavez Morales or lightning rod type completely out of the current political process to set the record straight and galvanize America. I would much rather see Jeb Bush as President rather than Hillary Clinton and I am considered a tight left winger by most people who know me.
January 22nd, 2006 at 7:46 pmChris Matthews is a mentally ill Bush lover, so MSNBC should fire him for calling Osama somewhat like Michael Moore! Schieffer is just a conservative Bush apologist who needs prozac, so ignore him > lol.
January 22nd, 2006 at 7:51 pmPost 323 > please NO more Bush clan members as president! George Senior, then Bush Junior are enough for all eternity!
January 22nd, 2006 at 7:55 pmAs for Hillary Clinton, I wish she would give up on becoming president!
I would much rather see Jeb Bush as President rather than Hillary Clinton and I am considered a tight left winger by most people who know me.
Comment by Bobbytoo #323
Boobytube,
For you to even mention Jeb Bush’s name shows you’re a right wing, inbred…
Go and replace the fruit and prostrate yourself in front of your shrine to your gods, the criminal Bushite klan…
January 22nd, 2006 at 8:00 pmI live in Florida and the current and past manta is all about Jeb ignoring the state constitution. It is almost as if he trained W. Don’t ever wish Jeb on this nation – if he were in power, we would enter the stone age in about eighteen months. Humankind would be extinct in another 6. Of course, there would not be any future wars after that.
January 22nd, 2006 at 8:09 pmI think 2006 might be a good year for Independents taking a stand against the establishment on both sides of the parlor…
January 22nd, 2006 at 8:11 pm#328 – unbelievable,
January 22nd, 2006 at 8:25 pmUnfortunately, the Senate is the stumbling block. If the Indies want to gain that twig of the legislative, it will take two election cycles. That means that they would have to align themselves with either the GOP or the DEMs in the interim. I would hope the latter.
Unfortunately, the Senate is the stumbling block. If the Indies want to gain that twig of the legislative, it will take two election cycles. That means that they would have to align themselves with either the GOP or the DEMs in the interim. I would hope the latter.
Comment by WaltTheMan — January 22, 2006 @ 8:25 pm
Walt,
I thought there were enough Senators up for election this year… Well, if not, it could would a start, right? I mean change at this point, no matter how small, is the concept.
Hey, that gave me an idea… what if they run under one established party, and then defect to Independent? A mass political Revolution… (yeah, I know, they aren’t capable)…
We have to come up with something different, cause the same ol’ same ol’ just isn’t cutting it anymore.
January 22nd, 2006 at 8:36 pmThis morning Fox News reported that Osama BinLaden died from a lung infection so he couldn’t have made the tapes. Osama’s dead, like a doornail.
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:33 pmThis is incredible! Folks are actually discussing the meaning of phony tapes. The tapes aren’t real, don’t you get it. It’s just more lies and fear spreading by this government. Osama is DEAD.
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:36 pmThe Dems need to repeat the mantra – GOP has declare war on the American people. The GOP has terrorized the American people, dismantle Social Security, abandon Americans during catastrophe events (Katrina), kill and mame Americans in a war based on lies, outsourcing American jobs etc… the list goes on and on. This is terrorism at it’s finest.
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:41 pmI was going to waste my time commenting on this thread about the subject, but why bother.
Let me just put it very simply… the republican party must be destroyed!!! #333 Cats Are Flyfishn is on the right track. Fascism is alive and well and flourishing in this country.
Fear! Fear! Fear! Is all you hear. Why hasn’t Osama been caught? Are we just that inept or is there another reason?
Think! Think! Think!
What leading American family is very close friends with a leading Saudi Arabian family? How long have they been friends and how much money is involved?
The research is easy. All you have to do is accept reality…. and the truth. All Americans should have one giant puke-fest and then recover to run George Bush and his cronies out of Washington, D.C. This country was created to be better than it is today. It’s time we stand up and start deleting the errors!
January 23rd, 2006 at 12:53 am[...] And CBS’s Bob Schieffer gets into the act: Asked whether bin Laden had expressed “almost the same†sentiments that [Sen. John] Kerry did during an appearance on [Bob] Schieffer’s “Face the Nation†broadcast in December, the CBS anchorman told WABC Radio’s Mark Simone: “Well, he did. That’s exactly right.†[...]
January 23rd, 2006 at 3:38 amFunny how the two spin merchants who made these comments have brothers who are republicans; Matthews brother is running for Lieutenant Govenor on the REPUBLICAN ticket in pennsylvania,…Schieffer’s brother is a former business partner of one George W Bush who by the way appointed his former partner in the Texas Rangers Baseball Team to an ambassatorial post in Asia. Funny how context changes what someone says
January 23rd, 2006 at 8:02 am“Please be polite.”
I’m sorry, but I’m done being polite. I will not be vulgar or personally attack them, but I will be honest, forthright, and let them know what I think. I e-mailed Matthhews and told him I was disgusted, that he was nothing more than a mouthpiece, didn’t deserve his journalistic pedestal, and that I hoped his ratings go in the toilet. These guys are just like the playground bully. Being “polite” generally doesn’t stop the bullying.
January 23rd, 2006 at 10:43 amJeff Gannon also called himself a “journalist.” Remember?
January 23rd, 2006 at 12:03 pmPlease be polite.
If you mean, don’t use foul language, fine. But such outrageous implications by prominent mainstreat media personalities deserves outrage, not namby-pamby, “please don’t say such nasty things about me” requests. It is bad enough that the media are outlets for administration (and Republican) propaganda, it is beneath contempt (and extremely dangerous) for the media to equate honest dissent with inept policy to aiding and abetting terrorism.
January 23rd, 2006 at 12:19 pmDuring the 2000 election campaign, Bob Schieffer said after one debate that Bush “showed an amazing grasp of foreign policy”. Not a tool of the Bush administration, indeed….
January 23rd, 2006 at 12:50 pm[...] Asked whether bin Laden had expressed “almost the same” sentiments that [Sen. Rick] Santorum did during an appearance on [Bob] Schieffer’s Face the Nation broadcast, the CBS anchorman told WABC Radio’s Mark Simone: “Well, he did. That’s exactly right.” [...]
January 23rd, 2006 at 1:26 pmAfter wading through the sewer of personal attacks and “we hate Geo. Bushisms” the FACT remains that John Kerry has said many of the same things as the murdering barbarian Osama. The FACT that Kerry says these things does NOT make him a terrorist mastermind. It does make him a Democrat partisan who will stoop to seemingly new lows to criticize the man who BEAT him in an election in which more people trusted the current administration with defense and security issues.
January 23rd, 2006 at 5:31 pmSchieffer echoes Matthews…
This weekend, CBS’s Bob Schieffer joined MSNBC’s Chris Matthews in the language of treason. From Think Progress:Asked whether bin Laden had expressed “almost the same” sentiments that [Sen. John] Kerry did during an appearance on [Bob] Schieffer’s…
January 23rd, 2006 at 6:26 pm[...] Did you really say on WABC that it is “exactly right†that on “Face the Nation†in December, John Kerry expressed the “same sentiments†as Osama bin Laden did in his latest tape? [...]
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