Katrina Investigation Reveals Administration’s Inability to Keep Americans Safe
Katrina Investigation Reveals Administration’s Inability to Keep Americans Safe
President Bush claimed earlier this month that “the American people can be rest assured this administration understands the task, and understands the challenges, and understands our obligation to protect you, to protect the American people.â€
The administration’s failed response to Katrina proved this to be false. In the face of one of the worst natural disasters in U.S. history, the White House did not appreciate the gravity of the situation, did not show leadership in a crisis, and demonstrated how incompetent they would handle future emergencies unless dramatic changes are made.
Congressional investigations into Katrina are bringing to light how incapable the White House is. From today’s New York Times:
The White House was beset by the “fog of war” in the crucial days immediately after Hurricane Katrina, leaving it unable to respond properly to the unfolding catastrophe, House investigators said Friday after getting the most detailed briefing yet on how President Bush’s staff had handled the events. […]
“We are left with a picture of a White House that was plagued by the fog of war,” said David Marin, the Republican staff director to the House committee investigating the government’s response to the hurricane. “The committee is likely to find a disturbing inability by the White House to de-conflict and analyze information — and that had consequences.”
But even now, the White House is stonewalling the investigation with claims of executive privilege. The stonewalling means “it will be hard†for investigators “to pinpoint where failures occurred within the White House.â€
We may never know where things went wrong before the next crisis hits.
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Not to mention:
CNN
January 27, 2006
Study: New Orleans could become vanilla city
No need to prepare for this.
January 28th, 2006 at 1:28 pmIt is hard to concentrate and succeed at tasks that are of no interest to you.
January 28th, 2006 at 1:30 pmDing ding ding ding ding ding ding ding.
Give that man a prize!
Absolutely correct plunger. Bush didn’t do shit, so the people would have to evacuate the state, never to return. FEMA did not give the evacuees round trip tickets and now they can’t get back to their homes.
I guess the good news is that they were moved to red states, so maybe they will make a difference there.
January 28th, 2006 at 1:37 pmThe left’s attempts to portray the response to hurricane Katrina as that of a racist and incompetent federal government under President Bush were all debunked months ago. But keep beating a dead horse if you wish.
January 28th, 2006 at 2:05 pmIn November 1998, immediately after Bush was re-elected as Texas governor and began eyeing the White House, Norquist traveled to Austin to meet Bush and Karl Rove, Bush’s political guru, whom Norquist has known for two decades
#The left’s attempts to portray the response to hurricane Katrina as that of a racist and incompetent federal government under President Bush were all debunked months ago. But keep beating a dead horse if you wish.
Comment by Jack — January 28, 2006 @ 2:05 pm
Yeah your right Jack, forget all those words such as Black and White, or Left and Right and boil that sucker down to size;
Bushes Response to Katrina was due to failure of plannind and failure of response due to incompetence.
See how easy that was, nor L or R, Dem or Pub, B or W.
Yet the Bush Admin is still Incompetent. Go figure.
January 28th, 2006 at 2:13 pmNo they weren’t and just because you post it doesn’t make it true. You want anybody here to believe a snippet of what you say, you will post a link to a non-partisan source. Otherwise, you are wasting your time posting here. Just using up some poor defenseless electrons.
January 28th, 2006 at 2:15 pmDamn Plunger, you go man.
Thats how you kick troll Bootay!
January 28th, 2006 at 2:17 pmThe left’s attempts to portray the response to hurricane Katrina as that of a racist and incompetent federal government under President Bush were all debunked months ago. But keep beating a dead horse if you wish.
Comment by Jack — January 28, 2006 @ 2:05 pm
Actually, that’s not true. The incompetent and racist federal government under President Bush was NEVER DEBUNKED. This is not history – this is the present. Bush&Co continue to show incompetence and racism. Just read the right wing slanted news for more details.
Now – if you are serious about stop beating dead horses, then the right needs to shut up about the Clintons.
January 28th, 2006 at 2:29 pmQuestions about Michael Chertoff and his rise in the administrtion to Homeland Security Chief? Plunger provided a lot of information — here’s more:
A huge spy ring of hundreds of Israelis penetrated the highest echelons of American intelligence agencies and the American military as reported by Carl Cameron on Fox News Network’s Brit Hume Show, December 12, 2002. In a corresponding broadcast on MSNBC, titled U.S. Busts Israeli Spy Ring, March 5, 2002, it was reported that approximately 200 Israeli agents were apprehended for attempting to penetrate the Justice Department, the U.S. judiciary system, several military bases, the FBI, the DEA, the INS and the CIA.
And it was our new Homeland Security Chief, Michael Chertoff, hand-picked by President Bush, who set them free without being charged.
What is more, during the September 11th attack, five men were caught standing on their van with binoculars focused on the World Trade Center while their companions videoed and enthusiastically celebrated the tragedy. They were apprehended by the FBI, discovered to be Israeli agents in possession of false passports, large sums of cash and a number of box cutters. The FBI held them for months during which time each and every one failed lie detector tests. After their release by Michael Chertoff, our new Homeland Security Chief, they fled to Israel.
January 28th, 2006 at 2:33 pmAye and heres a bit more to add to THOSE whom helped those ‘GROUPS’
http://www.citizensoldier.org/norquist.html
Grover Norquist, whom most conservatives know as Executive Director of the College Republicans, boardmember of the NRA, and head of Americans for Tax Reform, has been exposed as helping Muslim groups and individuals who finance and support Islamic terrorism gain access to the Bush White House.
Norquist has also been exposed as the founder of the Islamic Insitute, a group believed to be funded by foreign governments, Wahhab Islam elements in Saudi Arabia, and U.S. Muslim groups recently raided by a special Treasury Department task force for funding Al Qaeda and Palestinian terrorists. The Islamic Institute’s website lists the following goals:
1. Cultivate and expand Muslim activists and mobilize the community at the state and federal levels on issues affecting the American Muslim community.
2. Provide a platform to promote an Islamic perspective on domestic issues (social and fiscal) to help enhance the Muslim community’s input in the decision-making process.
3. Run aggressive campaigns at the state and federal levels on issues affecting the American Muslim community.
Wahhabi Islam funding from Saudi Arabia appears to have been instrumental is creating and and sustaining a large number of organizations involved in such troubling activities as:
1. Recruiting felons into Islam in U.S. prisons
2. Recruiting U.S. military personnel
3. Proselytizing on more than 500 college campuses across the United States
4. Covertly raising funds for terrorist groups through U.S.-based Muslim charities
5. Providing financial support – and gaining control – of 70-80 percent of U.S. mosques, and
6. Setting up private Muslim K-12 schools to indoctrinate U.S. Muslims into fundamentalist Islam (We ran an expose on one of these located just a few miles from our HQ which you can find at http://www.citizensoldier.org/madrassa.html.)
Norquist’s relationship with Muslim groups that support terrorism became public after Norquist launched an unexpected and inexplicably vitriolic attack against Frank Gaffney, the President of the Center for Security Policy.
During a routine Conservative Political Action Conference meeting in early February, Gaffney participated in a panel discussion about the balance to be struck in time of war between preserving civil liberties and safeguarding American’s lives and safety. Gafney expressed concern about one of the most insidious of the Wahhabis’ activities, a concerted attempt to penetrate and influence the Executive and Legislative branch of our government.
Gafney noted that groups like the American Muslim Council (AMC) and the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) have been able to gain access to the White House thanks to the White House’s Associate Director of Cabinet Affairs Ali Tulbah, a Muslim, and his predecessor, Suhail Kahn. At the same time, Tulbah and Kahn have excluded moderate American Muslim groups from White House access. Both Tulbah and Kahn have family ties to extremist Wahhabi religious groups. AMC and CAIR have expressed support for Hamas, Hezbollah, and Al Qaeda and are actively campaigning to waterdown immigration controls, law enforcement, and intelligence gathering.
Gaffney’s concerns are legitimate, because granting access to Muslim extremists gives them a chance to exercise undue influence over policy – undermining the war on terrorism – and confers a legitimacy that allows them to dominate the U.S. Islamic community.
Norquist responded to Gaffney’s comments by calling Gaffney a racist and religious bigot in an appearance on Fox News Channel and in letters sent to the Washington Post and Washington Times and barring Gaffney from attending the most important meeting in Washington, the regular Wednesday meetings of conservative Capitol Hill aides and interest-group representatives held in Norquist’s offices.
It is unclear whether the Muslims who have been acting as White House gatekeepers – Ali Tulbah and Suhail Kahn – were actually placed in that position by Grover Norquist’s Islamic Institute. Norquist is credited with delivering the Muslim vote for Bush in the 2000 election and has the ear of the most influential man in Washington, Karl Rove, President Bush’s political advisor. Rove has been a featured speaker at Norquist’s Wednesday meetings.
Although it is not noted on either group’s website, Norquist’s Islamic Institute actually shares office space and staff with Americans for Tax Reform.
According to news reports, while Norquist served as founding Chairman of the Islamic Institute the group received seed money from Abdurahman Alamoudi, then a member of the left-wing American Muslim Council. MSNBC and Fox News have aired videotapes of Alamoudi standing in front of the White House, declaring his support for Hamas and Hezbollah. Hamas is currently one of the leading groups responsible for Palestinian suicide bombers. Hezbollah, sponsored by the Iranian government, was responsible for the death of 240 Marines in Beirut in the 1980s and is believed to be responsible for the attack on Khobar Towers, a barracks in Saudi Arabia.
January 28th, 2006 at 2:51 pmWheres Gary Ruppert when you need him?
January 28th, 2006 at 2:53 pmSimilarly their illegal and unconstitutional domestic spying program fails to keep us safe either…
I just posted the diary I mentioned the other day regarding the Motion to Dismiss in an Albany “terror” case based on the use of illegal and unconstitutional warrentless electronic surveillance.
Please read and recommend as this issue needs airtime:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/1/28/145228/004
Thank you.
Peace,
Andrew
January 28th, 2006 at 3:02 pmBack on topic, Heres a Article;
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20060126-104448-4528r.htm
President Bush yesterday said he has exclusive authority over a broad range of issues – including forbidding White House officials to testify before Congress about the government’s Hurricane Katrina response and ordering warrantless electronic surveillance within the United States.
Now, the naked preznit (warrantless) is one disgusting thing. But how so does the WAR or any of the powers associated with isaid War, justify this action of; forbidding White House Officials to testify before congress?
January 28th, 2006 at 3:07 pmBrown was an obvious stooge, and incompetent for the Job, If Anything he was a Danger to National Security and not Vis a Vis as BushQuist and Rover, will undoubtedly try to spin it to keep it under Cloak and Key.
As I read the 4th Andrew, correct me if I err, is that these illegal taps are very much the same as Illegal Search and Seizure?
January 28th, 2006 at 3:11 pmUS propaganda aimed at foreigners reaches US public: Pentagon document
27/01/2006 05h39
WASHINGTON (AFP) – The Pentagon acknowledged in a newly declassified document that the US public is increasingly exposed to propaganda disseminated overseas in psychological operations.[[Well DUhh, LIKE FAUX NEWS!]]
But the document suggests that the Pentagon believes that US law that prohibits exposing the US public to propaganda does not apply to the unintended blowback from such operations.
“The increasing ability of people in most parts of the globe to access international information sources makes targeting particular audiences more difficult,” said the document.
“Today the distinction between foreign and domestic audiences become more a question of USG (US government) intent rather than information dissemination practices,” it said.
Called the “Information Operations Roadmap,” the document was approved by US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in October 2003.
January 28th, 2006 at 3:15 pmBush does NOT care about New Orleans, except the historic French Quarter, which had light damage from the hurricane and is open again for tourism! He does NOT want the poor Black residents to ever return, so the “Big Easy” becomes a Disneyland for wealthy Americans!
January 28th, 2006 at 3:33 pmWorst President ever!
January 28th, 2006 at 3:39 pmWe may never know where things went wrong before the next crisis hits
We all know where, we just don’t know how.
January 28th, 2006 at 4:39 pmWow, the paranoid left is out in force today. There were articles in the Los Angeles Times several months ago showing that black people were not disproportionately impacted, and another that showed the poor were not disproportionately impacted.
January 28th, 2006 at 4:45 pmFrom the article:
am i the only one somewhat bothered that no democrat bothered to show up to this? maybe staffers are the people that get shit done, but this doesn’t sit too well with me. an american city was destroyed. i personally expect more outrage than i’ve been seeing.
just sayin’
January 28th, 2006 at 4:53 pmCome on people.. we don’t need to be leaving all of these angry comments about ‘the problem with the left.. or the problem with the right is…’. We need to find common ground and focus on what we should be doing. Take for example this NSA spying story. We should all focus on what we can agree upon: No president, republican or democratic should have this much power. And for all the the people who lean right.. Could you imagine if Hillary was President and she was conducting a spying program on Americans? Would you trust her to not abuse this power????
January 28th, 2006 at 4:54 pmJyms – Why do you think the president should not have the power to engage in signals intelligence against the enemy in a war? Presidents have always had that power.
January 28th, 2006 at 4:56 pmhey folks..FYI This Rightwinger Jack is not worth an ounce of your energy. diss him and get if over with.
January 28th, 2006 at 5:09 pmJack,
January 28th, 2006 at 5:11 pmThe question is not whether or not the President has the ‘power to engage in signals intelligence against the enemy in a war’. Who ever said that that was the debate? The debate is about checks and balances. Bush has grabbed more power than he is warranted. He is supposed to ask a NSA judge if he can spy on someone who he thinks is conversing with the enemy. He isn’t. The question isn’t about who he is spying on or why. The question is why does he feel he doesn’t need to comply with the law. What does he have to hide? Was he spying on John Kerry? How would we know if he was?
Jyms, you said, “He is supposed to ask a NSA judge if he can spy on someone who he thinks is conversing with the enemy.”
But that is untrue. The president has that power. The Constitution does not give the judiciary the power to make decisions about war tactics.
RightPunch, I have no interest in your baseless ad hominem attacks. Trade insults with someone else, if that’s your bag.
January 28th, 2006 at 5:37 pmThe Bush plan worked. They know what would happen when the storm hit and who would be most effected. Thats why our government waited so long to step up to help. The plan was to make sure the people in the Gulf would lose their water front property so Bush’s friends would be able to steal it legally. Knowing people that own property that you don’t want to buy makes sence. Here comes Katrina and the pre-report tells you what will happen to what area. Sit back or go shopping for shoes and let it happen. Oh make sure the insurance company doesn’t pay and its all good. We will see the Gulf build back but it will look different. It will have boats, lakeside homes of the rich and richer. People don’t matter to his Administration its only lie, cheat and steal. The only question is when will all americans step up to save our country from the current dictatorship? If we wait to long look for other countries to take advanage of this opportunity.
January 28th, 2006 at 5:39 pm“RightPunch” is non-partisan? ThinkProgress is non-partisan? Good one, that’s funny.
January 28th, 2006 at 5:52 pmPost a link or STFU.
January 28th, 2006 at 5:57 pmSpudgeBoy, OK – http://www.latimes.com
January 28th, 2006 at 5:58 pmMay I jump in the pool please. Don’t know if any one here remembers me screaming about the Katrina tragedy while it was on going. I sent out hundreds of emails to senators, governors and the white house for nearly 5 day’s asking them all where the hell were they. Why wern’t they doing anything, all the while I had cnn on 24/7 I was histerical that our people were drowning and not one shit head was doing anything. I never got one reply and it took Bull Sh** Bush nearly 5 day’s before his fly over. The rotten bast***. Then do you all remember early on I said I would bet NO would be taken over for condos and refineries. Well guess what, 350,000 people are still displaced and of that 1,300 children are still missing. And noticed they are arresting some Fema people for extorting now. Gee that seems to be the rule of this administration. I just wonder if I will live long enough to read in print all this bunch has gotten away with. I have a dream, that one day soon Bush will be on air force one, landing in some obscure country with balls, get arrested for war crimes and be held indefenately……Ya all have a nice day now, ya hear….Thanks Plunger and everyone for all the good stuff on that miserable Chertoff or is it Shitoff?…..Blessings
January 28th, 2006 at 6:00 pmFirst of all, COngress never declared war on any country. We are not at war. The Global War on Terror is no differenet than the War on Drugs, War on Poverty, etc.
And once again, we are not against wiretapping, WITH A WARRANT. it is the WARRANTLESS WIRETAPPING we are against.
January 28th, 2006 at 6:00 pmA link to your story dumbass.
January 28th, 2006 at 6:02 pmNo, laws are made by Congress. That law is the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978. Read up.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode50/usc_sup_01_50_10_36.html
January 28th, 2006 at 6:04 pmSpudgeBoy, Congress cannot pass a law that infringes on an inherent presidential power. Congress passed a resolution to authorize the use of force, equivalent to a declaration of war.
January 28th, 2006 at 6:13 pmThere sure does seem to be a lot of hatred and paranoia on the left these days.
January 28th, 2006 at 6:14 pmYes they can dumbass. It is called check and balances. The president is not a god damn king idiot.
An authorization is not equivalent to a declaration of war.
January 28th, 2006 at 6:17 pmNo paranoia, but I do hate people like you and George Bush. I am not a sappy tree hugging liberal bud.
January 28th, 2006 at 6:18 pm#56 I think you’d be more comfortable here:
http://www.exposingtheleft.blogspot.com/
No liberals. Just a bunch of pretentious knuckle-draggers like yourself.
January 28th, 2006 at 6:22 pmI think all the time, therefore thoughful and I consider myself to be a free thinker, therfore considerate. Now go F yourself.
January 28th, 2006 at 6:28 pm“I think all the time, therefore thoughful and I consider myself to be a free thinker, therfore considerate. Now go F yourself.”
HEHE, good one. Self parody, excellent.
January 28th, 2006 at 6:31 pmTo get this board back on task , is White House stonewalling an investigation into Katrina to be expected . It should be considering there never was an investigation into the greatest criminal act in U.S. history 911 . These are the things that show someone is hiding something , like when tower # 7 went down a week later .
January 28th, 2006 at 6:32 pm“there never was an investigation into the greatest criminal act in U.S. history 911″
Uh, ever heard of the “9/11 Commission”?
January 28th, 2006 at 6:37 pmJack I know of that and it was useless , no one agreed , it was a split duh
January 28th, 2006 at 6:39 pmbl in ten years you won’t even admit to voting for Bush .
January 28th, 2006 at 6:40 pmI don’t ever hear anybody brag that they voted for Nixon. Same will go for the retard who lives in the WHite House.
bl thinks he won something. What you won amounts to the same thing as winning the special olympics. You still have a retard for a leader.
January 28th, 2006 at 6:42 pmDo you think typing “Ha ha ha ha” at the end of your post makes something funny?
January 28th, 2006 at 6:43 pm12.7 billion dollars cut on edjucation ha ha ha ha gas prices 2.50 a gallon ha ha ha ha see how stupid it looks bl
January 28th, 2006 at 6:48 pmbl why’d you call me pumpkin , isn’t that what you and your family does on holloween .
January 28th, 2006 at 6:50 pmI’m just trying to funny like bl
January 28th, 2006 at 6:51 pm“The partisans like yourself however appear to feed on emotions and beliefs, without any bother to a rational perspective on the world. I don’t hate you brother/sister, I feel love and pity for you. ”
Do you read your own posts you idiot. Ha hahaahahahahahahahaha
January 28th, 2006 at 6:52 pmRightpunch bl is the typical conservative , I hear banter like this from dumb rednck fundies I work with . It makes me wonder if god put that scripture in the bible about handling serpents just to weed these kind out .
January 28th, 2006 at 7:01 pmYou drive people away with your anri-social behavior so you can sit and have semi intellectual discourse with yourselves. Thats the intellectual equivalent of inbreading. That explains why you have gone mad. Hahahahahaha
January 28th, 2006 at 7:02 pmWe welcome debate and dissent, not attacks.
You know, the first thing you did when you posted your very first post on this blog? You remember that? If you show up at a blog and the first thing you do is put people down, you deserve to get treated like the piece of sh!t you are.
January 28th, 2006 at 7:07 pmBl stands for big loser.
January 28th, 2006 at 7:10 pmRightPunch I do agree with you about the forgiveness and all that and I don’t mean to attack christianity because I am a christian myself which is some of the root to my agression towards these selfrightous , selfindulging , and most of all selfserving conservatives is that they drag god through the dirt with their ways . The party of God they are not .
January 28th, 2006 at 7:17 pmRightPunch,
You ain’t kidding me that this sh!t is getting looney. My card carrying church lady mom whipped this one out on me Thursday.
“I don’t care which party is in power, because I think God runs the country.”
My mom is lost. At least my card carrying curch going father questions the legality and morality of what Bush is doing.
Other than these two, I do not know anybody else that semi-supports Bush.
January 28th, 2006 at 7:19 pmIt’s 4:30 idiot. Stop living in your own little bubble stupid.
January 28th, 2006 at 7:20 pmThe Church has sold their soul to the devil for corporation , it’s getting harder to testify to my non-christian friends . In effect Bush has not only split america but also the Church .
January 28th, 2006 at 7:23 pmSpudge to funny it’s only 830 out east , he must have a big day ahead tommorrow , church then skeetshooting ha ha ha ha
January 28th, 2006 at 7:25 pmMind if I weigh in ….?
RightPunch … I saw that study as well … didn’t they use both liberals and conservatives though … correct me if I’m wrong, but both “ideals” saw similar responses to stimuli that they disagreed with. They stated that this was subconcious (again, correct me if I’m wrong) and said that neither side fared any better or worse. What was important was to acknowledge the phenomenon and say something to the effect of “this is what I want to think, now, does what I think make sense or is it logical” … something to that nature.
Now about the Katrina thing, there was absolutely no excuse for the response by FEMA and the rest of the government. No excuse whatsoever. To me, it was a clear case of wrong guy for the wrong job + poor planning + lack of coordination + ignorance = “fubar”ed cesspool. Since Bush is at the top (and since he appointed the moron) he does have to answer for this issue … to him I submit adding the governor of Luisiana and the Mayor of New Orleans.
Pointing fingers at Bush won’t prevent this from happening again … complete accountability for ALL the aforementioned individuals and bi-partisan support for changes/rebuilding/whatever is needed. This isn’t a time to gain “political capital” … this is a tragedy that must never happen again … both parties need to put up or shut up … since I’m a Republican, I’ll call them out … get it done and stop sniping about it.
January 28th, 2006 at 7:29 pmThe party of God they are not .
I’m thinking God is pretty apolitical … to try and say He sides with one or the other party is on pretty shaky ground, in my book.
January 28th, 2006 at 7:32 pmThat’s why the religious hate the Secularists, because we believe in individual responsibility and free thinking – and that scares them and their partisan power bases.
I don’t “hate” secularists … I just feel that there’s an external standard besides personal responsibility … I’m also all for free thought (as I think Christianity is as well … Jesus was certainly a “liberal” … he encouraged questioning, and he encouraged open-ness … but he also taught about standards and accountability) … sure, there are plenty of Christians who hate and who try and scare people, but based on my experience and what I’ve learned, that’s as far from Jesus’s message as once could get.
January 28th, 2006 at 7:37 pmRightPunch I’m not going to argue religous beliefs , I am a christian but I also am a freethinker . My point was made about people who don’t practice what they preach . Christianity doesen’t run this country bad people do .
January 28th, 2006 at 7:38 pmGia you said it best thank you.
January 28th, 2006 at 7:39 pmWhen will liberals stop lying to the American people? NEVER! Katrina hit a Democrat city in a Democrat state and the world saw how the Democrats were unable to take care of ANYTHING!
If Democrats can NOT take care of a city, how on Earth can they even consider taking care of the Nation?
They can not!
January 28th, 2006 at 7:56 pmThis is your partisan brain engaging in the last seconds to prevent you from the pain of actually reasonably and rationally blaming your own party for its failures.
Look … I’m not sure who made you the judge of all things partisan, but certainly you realize that the filter you view my comments through is somehwat biased? I can certainly appreciate your willingness to “help” me through my struggle, so to speak, but I’d be remiss if I didn’t say that I’m not sure you’re the best judge … maybe mutual judging … you tell me when I’m partisan and I’ll tell you when you are …… no …. that would take too long likely. Hows about this, we both agree that our comments will ALWAYS be tainted somewhat by our ideology because NO ONE can speak from experience and education with being changed and adapted by that experience and education. Just because you think I sound like a conservative doesn’t make me a “partisan” … it just makes me a normal human, friend.
January 28th, 2006 at 7:56 pmWow, I thought this dead horse was done totally beat to shit already. Are the republicans gonna try and dust this one off and try to get people to believe it again.
January 28th, 2006 at 8:01 pmWhen one must hold their own moral standard, then each person is 100% responsible for their own actions. I can’t blame a devil, or a god for my screwups. And I can’t expect to get away with something and have a deity wipe me of my sins – I carry them with me and must forgive myself and others.
I think I follow you, but my question is … if each has their own standard … then that’s not really a standard. I understand the the rule of law will limit behavior to a certain degree, but there are things that are outside this realm … decency issues, for example. Personal morality could mean that I can act in an injurous (but not illegal) way to another and no one could really say I was “wrong” … public sentiment might shun me, but I wouldn’t necessarily have to change anything. It could be very chaotic.
As for the second part … I am 100% responsible for my actions. The devil can’t make me do anything … the Bible does repeat this plenty. The “redemption” of a Christian that you refer to is not a “yeah, I can do whatever I want” get out of jail free card … it’s grace … I know there are those that wield Christianity like a weapon … they do a great disservice to the faith.
January 28th, 2006 at 8:02 pmI’m not Republican – I’m independent. No one owns me, so I’m free to observe without bias.
January 28th, 2006 at 8:03 pmGiacomo — Don,t you Mean Enemy? “I sound like a conservative doesn’t make me a “partisan†… it just makes me a normal human, Enemy.”
Well … since I’m a Christian … and since Jesus says to love your enemies … makes no difference … friend. :-)
January 28th, 2006 at 8:04 pmAnd, I’m sure you want the facts about Katrina, and the Democrat city and state to be a dead horse. You’re counting on it going away – Democrats need it to go away – and if it doesn’t, then heck – like all else, BLAME BUSH!
January 28th, 2006 at 8:05 pmWRONG “No Freedom” – I know it’s the liberal/socialist way to want to accept everyone, but there are many that we don’t have to get along with nor allow to even live:
Child molestors
January 28th, 2006 at 8:07 pmTerrorists targeting innocent people, children
Socialists
Etc.
Still waiting for a thread on the possible Alito Fillibuster. Are you at Think Progress going to post one or ignore it?
Search the blogs, you’ll find its a big story and effort elsewhere.
Dismayed
January 28th, 2006 at 8:09 pmActually the possible Alito Fillibuster is dead before it even starts. Only the leftist of Senators are planning for it – maybe a couple of more if son-hater Cindy Sheehan threat’ns them like she did with Dianne Feinstein in California.
Other Democrat Senators have proven they are not the total puppets of extreme liberal groups and said they will vote to confirm Alito.
It’s the smart choice.
January 28th, 2006 at 8:12 pmRove could have put the war on the back page of the newspaper if they had immersed themselves into New Orleans. What a bunch of fools.
January 28th, 2006 at 8:17 pmThey lost the Towers. They lost a whole American city.
The only son that Cindy S hates is that son of a Barbara.
January 28th, 2006 at 8:18 pmThanks to Clinton, who let the 9/11 terrorists train in our own country. You’re right – what a bunch of fools. Remember that when Hillary comes along…
January 28th, 2006 at 8:19 pmbl, did you even read the whole thing, or understand it? A Russion General is giving his opinion that 9/11 was an inside job.
January 28th, 2006 at 8:20 pmI would agree with the Russian General – we have many radical muslims inside the USA. The PROBLEM is the LIBERALS that don’t want them found, nor do they want the plans of terrorists in the USA to be known.
Liberals rather expose secrets of the USA in the fight against terrorism than expose the terrorists themselves.
Just da facts!
January 28th, 2006 at 8:22 pmAs for me, I haven’t been inside a church for decades. I don’t need a church or book to tell me homosexuality is NOT normal. Sort of like sex with animals is not normal either. Other countries, like France, have no problem with moral decay. This is the USA, and I’d hope we have better standards.
And – I don’t believe in any evil entity some call “the devil”. There are plenty of evil people in this world without any help required from some “fallen angel”.
Just da facts!
January 28th, 2006 at 8:30 pmbl,
You are one of the few Right WIngers that even have a glimpse of a brain to even try to post here, most of your buddies wouldn’t even attempt it. For all I know you are someone who has been here already, under different names.
January 28th, 2006 at 8:30 pmJustonDrugs,
January 28th, 2006 at 8:31 pmI would suggest that you stop posting. The guys in white coats will find you.
You always will know when you’re posting truth when the come-back is name calling and attempts at insults.
I obviously have the truth on my side.
Just da facts!
January 28th, 2006 at 8:32 pmWe need something new to be afraid of, terrorists are not really having the fear effect they used to, and Communism has been gone for a long time now. I’m not even afraid of “New Republicans”, they are digging their own grave.
So any ideas out there of something new and scary I can go back to being afraid of?
January 28th, 2006 at 8:35 pm#130,
Geez, I thought that was only a warning.
For instance:
Thanks to Clinton, who let the 9/11 terrorists train in our own country. You’re right – what a bunch of fools. Remember that when Hillary comes along…
Comment by JustaDog — January 28, 2006 @ 8:19 pm
How did Bill Clinton control events that occurred while he was not in office?
January 28th, 2006 at 8:42 pmYou used Democrat 3 times in this one statement about how you don’t think the federal government should do it’s job
Then you say Democrats should go away, following that with Bush chants.
Then you attack Cindy Sheehan
Then you blame Clinton for 9/11.
Then you balme liberals for 9/11.
Sorry to break it to you, but you are a republican zombie shill.
Just da facts.
January 28th, 2006 at 8:43 pm#134 – SpudgeBoy,
January 28th, 2006 at 8:50 pmI guess that you can see that I concur with you.
I guess that JustonDrugs is trying to power up his Speak’n Spell. Should we let it know it needs batteries?
January 28th, 2006 at 8:53 pmThat report is one former communist whom no one in this country takes seriously but you. How should one respond to such absurdity.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:10 pmWhy should we show love to somebody whos’ first post on this blog was an attack?
January 28th, 2006 at 9:10 pmSpudgeBoy, you said, “We welcome debate and dissent, not attacks.”
But all the liberals are doing here, including you, is attack, attack, attack.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:11 pmBecause the first thing you guys did when you started posting here was attack us. Why should we treat you any different?
January 28th, 2006 at 9:13 pmThis post is a perfect example of why we don’t show you guys any respect. This is neither debate nor dissent. It is just plain stupid, so we treat you as such.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:17 pmI forgive you too man.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:21 pmCant we all just get along?
January 28th, 2006 at 9:21 pmbl = big loser.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:22 pmOh I am in love with walt. Can you feel the love walt THE MAN.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:24 pmOK, bl, my post is out of sequence. Peace.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:24 pmI wish we could, but with your leaders and right wing pundits comparing liberals to terrorists, it makes it kinda hard.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:25 pmOne question since we dont believe in
January 28th, 2006 at 9:26 pmgod there is no sin and no need for forgiveness so why are we forgiving each other?
But with your leaders and left-wing pundits sounding like terrorists and saying things like “I don’t support the troops”, it makes it kinda hard.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:27 pmI mean if there is no
January 28th, 2006 at 9:36 pmgod there is no absolute right and wrong and no absolute truth just opinion an opinion cant be a “Sin”. So what are we forgiving.
“Name one mainstream liberal spokesperson who’s uttered those exact words. ”
Joel Stein.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:36 pmI keep forgeting that question mark please forgive oops never mind.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:37 pmAnother perfect example. You even put in quotes:
“I don’t support the troopsâ€
Show me any story, article, newsclip, tv show or press conference where any left wing person has ever said:
“I don’t support the troopsâ€
It has never happened. We don’t support the war. That is not the same thing as not supporting the troops. If you were a regular here, you would know that I am a veteran. I support the troops 110%. That is why they need to get the hell out of the Middle East.
Show me a link to any left wing person saying:
“I don’t support the troopsâ€
Until then, I am done talking to you. with the statement you made that left wingers say:
“I don’t support the troopsâ€
you have proved that you are not worth my time, because you are not debating or dissenting, you are attacking.
So, piss off.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:37 pmSpudgeBoy, Joel Stein, Los Angeles Times Columnist, wrote it this week. Try to keep up.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:40 pmTo offend truth in this case the truth of human dignity specificaaly yours and mine requires truth if there is no truth than there is no offense.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:42 pmJack post a link or STFU.
Also, I have to agree with RightPunch, I have never heard of Joels Stein before.
Post a link to the story where some guy we have never heard of before says “I don’t support the troops.â€
January 28th, 2006 at 9:44 pmRightPunch, “mainstream” is not defined as “someone RightPunch has heard of.”
Joel Stein is a columnist for the Los Angeles Times, one ofthe largest newspapers in the nation.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:44 pmSpudgeBoy — http://www.latimes.com
January 28th, 2006 at 9:45 pmI didn’t imply that Stein represents all liberals. That is a lie.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:46 pmIf there is no absolute truth then no absolute claim to human dignity unless we choose to delude ourselves into thinking so.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:46 pm“If we’ve never heard of this person…”
The debate is not defined by your ignorance.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:48 pmThat once again is the link to the front page of the LA Times. Link to your story idiot.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:49 pmSo, now you are goin gto dictate to me who speaks for me? You are a moron. If the is some dumbass out there syaing he doesn’t support the troops, then he IS a whacko and does not speak for any of the leaders in the Democratic party. You got the wrong site and the wrong people dumbass.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:51 pmIt wouldn’t surpirse me if Mr. Joel Stein is really a letter to the editor or some stupid shit like that. He is not a regular LA Times editor, considering I live in Orange Co, CA and that is one of the papers that is delivered to my door every morning.
Post a link and prove your point fraidy cat.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:55 pmI said a “left wing pundit” said “I don’t support the troops. Joel Stein, a left wing pundit, said, “I don’t support the troops.” End of proof.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:55 pmProve it liar.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:55 pmSpudgeBoy, you can’t use the search box at http://www.latimes.com ?
January 28th, 2006 at 9:56 pmJoel Stein is a regular weekly columnist for the LA Times.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:57 pmThe fact RightPunch is reduced to such nitpicking speaks for itself.
January 28th, 2006 at 9:59 pm#147,
January 28th, 2006 at 10:00 pmAh, but there is a God. It is in the racial consciousness that follows the human spirit. Whether it is education, DNA, or ESP that carries it forward, each generation has greater intellectual fortitude then the one before it. There have been some novas like Archimedes, Aristotle, Galileo, Newton, Gauss, Einstein, et alia, but the level of human knowledge is increasing on an exponential basis even at its lowest levels.
Michael Moore, who was an honored guest in the presidential box nxt to Carter at the 2004 DNC convention, compared the terrorists to the American revolution Minutemen.
Markos Moulitsas, top leftist blogger, said “Screw them” about 4 Americans brutally murdered in Fallujah.
There are many of examples of Democrats supporting the other side with their rhetoric.
Joel Stein, who said, “I don’t support the troops” is just one example.
January 28th, 2006 at 10:02 pmThis LA Times piece is an Op-Ed. It is not a regular column. Joel Stein is neither a left wing pundit nor is he a left wing leader.
You are full of shit and I am done with you.
Time for BBQ, see you all later.
January 28th, 2006 at 10:03 pmSpudgeBoy, Stein is a regular weekly op-ed columnist for the Times.
January 28th, 2006 at 10:04 pmBush will probably mention New Orleans in his State of the Union address, but he will not mention the hundreds of dead bodies left to rot into bones and are still being found as houses are demolitioned! He will not remind anybody about letting the poor of the city starve for a week in toxic flood waters, and then bringing in “Black Water Company” assassins to murder some that survived! He will claim that New Orleans is being rebuilt, but that is another big LIE!
January 28th, 2006 at 10:16 pmMichael Brown and FEMA came through for Bush when he really needed it. For the full story, see:
January 29th, 2006 at 12:07 am“FEMA: Florida Election Management Agency.”
I know what went wrong. In one word: Bush. It’s a no brainer.
January 29th, 2006 at 1:53 amRight Punch, you are a GEM! Your patience and warm heart are evident, and a marvel. Thanks for all the smiles tonite. Best wishes, Cyra
January 29th, 2006 at 9:07 am#
Where is the outrage? I know this is off topic, but we should be emphatically denouncing Alito’s confirmation, and making it known that future political support and contributions will be contingent upon the senator’s opposition to Alito. In other words any senator who fails to vote “NO†on Alito will be opposed in future elections.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:07 amRight Punch
January 29th, 2006 at 11:23 amI have been reading your posts and I want to say how I admire your careful, factual and reasonable responses to the trolls who infect this site with their hatefilled, fact-free revisionist history.
Doesn’t this link say something?:
January 30th, 2006 at 1:54 amhttp://enews.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20060129/43dd9d50_3ca6_1552620060130-1900287667
Why are American miners considered expendable while Canadian miners are worth saving? This really makes me sick.
The left’s attempts to portray the response to hurricane Katrina as that of a racist and incompetent federal government under President Bush were all debunked months ago. But keep beating a dead horse if you wish.
Comment by Jack #7
So Jack,
What was it?
a) incompetence
b) indifference
c) indolence
d) all of the above
January 30th, 2006 at 12:39 pmI know this is off topic, but we should be emphatically denouncing Alito’s confirmation, and making it known that future political support and contributions will be contingent upon the senator’s opposition to Alito. In other words any senator who fails to vote “NO†on Alito will be opposed in future elections.
Comment by Mama #194
Mama,
I agree 100%…
…sent tons of e-mails to Senators, and Howard Dean and the DNC suggesting a public repudiation of Democrat traitors like Nelson (Neb), Lieberman, Feinstein, Biden, Pryor, Landrieu, Johnson (SD), Byrd, and any other Dem that doesn’t hold the line…
If that doesn’t happen Dems/Progressives need to take action against the DNC…
…no response as yet…
January 30th, 2006 at 12:44 pmComment by RightPunch #192
RightPunch,
Don’tcha just love it when their hypocrisy, LIES and hyperbole come flying back into the car window, right into their ruddy red, inbred faces?
great job of researching dude/girl/or whatever…
January 30th, 2006 at 12:48 pmThis discussion has gone on far too long, it is now about trashing the bloggers instead of discussing Katrina and the administration. I really want to know which brainless booby in the administration thought the best way to deal with a hurricane was to ignore it. I can think of rude and discourteous things to say about lame brain leftwing bloggers, and right wing nit wits without help.
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