Matthews: Bush’s Warrantless Domestic Surveillance Is “A Winner Politically”
Matthews: Bush’s Warrantless Domestic Surveillance Is “A Winner Politically”
Today on the Chris Matthews show, Matthews asserted that the President warrantless domestic spying program was “a winner politically”:
MATTHEWS: Elisabeth, a couple weeks ago the Democrats thought they had the president’s number on this NSA spying thing and then Karl Rove came out a week ago and said “no, this is a big winner.” How is the president turning the NSA surveillance question into a winner politically?
ELISABETH BUMILLER, NYT: It took them a while. It took them about a month to get their act together on this…
Three of the most recent polls on the issue paint an completely different picture:
CNN/USA Today (Jan. 20-22): “As you may know, the Bush Administration has been wiretapping telephone conversations between U.S. citizens living in the United States and suspected terrorists living in other countries without getting a court order allowing it to do so. Do you think the Bush Administration was right or wrong in wiretapping these conversations without obtaining a court order?”
Right 46%. Wrong 51%.
CBS/NYT (Jan 20-25): “After 9/11, George W. Bush authorized government wiretaps on some phone calls in the U.S. without getting court warrants. Do you approve or disapprove of George W. Bush doing this?”
Approve 46%. Disapprove 50%.
LA Times/Bloomberg (Jan 22-25): “As you may know, George W. Bush authorized federal government agencies to use electronic surveillance to monitor phone calls and emails within the United States without first getting a court warrant to do so. Do you consider this an acceptable or unacceptable way for the federal government to investigate terrorism?”
Acceptable 49%. Unacceptable 45%.
So 2 of the 3 most recent polls found most Americans disapproved of the program. Another found a slim plurality approved of the program. Then, Chris Matthews pronounces it a clear “winner” for the President and marvels at Karl Rove’s genius.
More on Matthews at the Open Letter To Chris Matthews blog.
UPDATE: Crooks and Liars has the video.
UPDATE II: Since this post was published yesterday, a new ABC/Washington Post was released that supports Matthews view.
Washington Post/ABC (Jan. 23-26) “As you may know, the National Security Agency has been investigating people suspected of involvement with terrorism by secretly listening in on telephone calls and reading e-mails between some people in the United States and other countries, without first getting court approval to do so. Would you consider this wiretapping of telephone calls and e-mails without court approval as an acceptable or unacceptable way for the federal government to investigate terrorism?”
Acceptable 56%. Unacceptable 43%.
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Chris still hasn’t apologised for the Democrat/Osama s*** yet. He just keeps on diggin’ himself a hole.
January 29th, 2006 at 6:27 pmWhat is wrong with half of this country? Seriously?
Were they giving away free lobotomies at the Republican National Convention in 2004?
January 29th, 2006 at 6:29 pmIf this is a ‘Winner Politically’ what is a ‘Loser Politically’?
January 29th, 2006 at 6:32 pmTo paraphrase Jane Hamsher, maybe Chris Matthews’ chin will be dusted for Karl Rove’s ball prints .
January 29th, 2006 at 6:34 pmWere they giving away free lobotomies at the Republican National Convention in 2004?
Sure–didn’t you see all those Purple Heart bandaids?
January 29th, 2006 at 6:34 pmthe worrying thing is that the poll numbers are so close as to obviously give the White House a lot of encouragement (obviously a question hangs over the authenticity of the polling). once the waters have been sufficiently muddied by rove et al, the self-fulfilling prophecies of right-wing media and politicians will perhaps come to pass.
January 29th, 2006 at 6:35 pmHow can Matthews say that this is a winner when half America thinks Bush broke the law. We need to impeach Bush soon. We can not have him in office for another two almost three years. We have to vote the Right wing nuts in congress out of office in November.
January 29th, 2006 at 6:36 pmSure–didn’t you see all those Purple Heart bandaids?
Comment by Corinne — January 29, 2006 @ 6:34 pm
I try not to look at them directly – I heard that you catch syphilis that way. No wait, maybe it’s cooties… :)
January 29th, 2006 at 6:37 pmI can’t wait for the day that all the right-wing pundits learn that they can’t get away with absolutely anything.
January 29th, 2006 at 6:39 pmChris, you lying sack.
Mainstream media is dead. They offer us nothing but yellovision news.
January 29th, 2006 at 6:41 pmWell Mr Matthews You call this a Winner?
While Bush’s approval rating remains low at 41 percent, the poll has some backhanded good news for Republicans. Seventy-four percent of those polled said Republicans and Democrats are equally corrupt — while 14 percent said Republicans are more corrupt and 7 percent said Democrats are.
The poll found that 57 percent have not been following the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal closely.
At least this is a Political Winner for the Non Partisan Majority, Bush and Roves Rhetoric and the Democratic senators Silence is working VERY well for the Progressive Movement. Keep it up ROVE you Genius! and well have all of the Corrupt out of office.
Also this shows the Need to Put Abramoffs Weapon Sales, and Roves Norquists Ties to Isalmic Groups in Peoples Faces.
Rove a Genius?
Naw, he never Graduated from any Univesitie, Schools, many as possible to keep him out of war was more Important, and he has no credentials.
Rove is just another Delay, give em money and most ANY politician or Pundit above, will say whatever you want.Rove is still playing Election Year, foolishly. apparently Its All he knows, the ‘BLAME GAME’.
In Texas Slang;
January 29th, 2006 at 6:44 pm“That Dog wont Hunt”
Time to WAKE UP!!!!!!!! This is propaganda. Yes, it has happened in AMERICA. It’s all so simple when you know this. Why do we/you question each new absurdity on the MSM with wonder and anger? We are stupid. Time to get UN-STUPID. The goverment has control of the MSM and we are being fed propoganda. The big corporations own the TV stations. …..Clear? …….. The only real card they have though, and it is a strong one, is that most people find that too scary and thus stay asleep. They don’t want to believe that the media is controlled so completely and so successfully. Cause it’s depressing. And so, lastly, Matthews is saying this so that the wire tapping WILL become a winner, not because it is true. It is called selling…….selling us on a false idea so we will not fight. A CON…A SELL JOB
January 29th, 2006 at 6:53 pmUnfortunately, I’m not so sure it’s that straightfoward. As this post argues in part, the public opinion probably hassn’t crystallized yet. The ABC poll has a majority supporting the program, and the NYT’s poll results depended on how the question was asked.
January 29th, 2006 at 6:57 pmThey must have pictures of Matthews in “Man on Dog” action. It’s the only explanation, really. What a quack!
January 29th, 2006 at 7:01 pmits amazing that happy gooper propagandists like mathews apparently think that because they’re card carrying members of the cult of republicanism that they will somehow never become targets of the bushcriminal regime.
January 29th, 2006 at 7:02 pmLets add some more credibility to Rove/Buschco
The cousin of George Bush’s Chief of Staff, Andrew Card, is accused of spying for Iraq. Susan Lindauer, daughter of a prominent Alaska Republican who was indicted for campaign finance fraud, was arrested for selling so-called “classified documents” to Iraqi intelligence agents
January 29th, 2006 at 7:02 pmDoes anyone have an idea of the size of Matthews audience? For the weekday Hardball,too? I thought the overall viewership of MSNBC was pretty weak which generally explains the cross-overs of Scarborough and Cosby,
January 29th, 2006 at 7:02 pmThe dumb Dems have once again allowed themselves to be backed into a damned corner. They can’t complain about spying without appearing weak on terror…
January 29th, 2006 at 7:03 pmWhat an old tune. Those damn Dems better thank us when we throw Bush under the bus for them.
Hey Mr Cheney Buscho Rover
Remember This?
Cheney expressed outrage at the Jonathan Pollard spy case, saying it demonstrated that Israel had waged a deliberate and successful spy campaign against the US. “I consider it an unfriendly act,†Cheney said in 1987, adding that Israel had betrayed its unique bond with the US. “They, on the one hand, plead for a special relationship with the US-a special relationship that has existed for nearly 40 years now. On the other hand, [they] run a major intelligence operation against us,†Cheney said.
Source: Scott Farris, Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, p.8 Jul 2, 1989
Awwww poor Mr Cheney doesnt like being spied on…
Why IM outraged I tell ya , Outraged, at at such Hypocrisy!
January 29th, 2006 at 7:11 pmAnd Cheney Runs a Major Intelligence Operation against U.S.
January 29th, 2006 at 7:11 pmChris is back on the sauce, like his dry-drunk president.
January 29th, 2006 at 7:12 pmLiberals and/or Democrats, ideally, would refute what Matthews has said, either on his show or on Hardball. Unfortunately, the deck is probably stacked against them because they can only get on his show at the invitation of Matthews or a staff representative and Matthews does not seem to be in the habit of having liberals appear frequently on his show. All too often, it seems that even in the rare instances when they do appear, they don’t want to say anything which can be construed as being too contentious for fear of not being asked back again by Matthews.
January 29th, 2006 at 7:13 pmTHE DEMS HAVE NO SPINES. nOW IS THE TIME TO COME TO THE aID OF YOUR COUNTRY. iT IS NOT THE TIME TO GUESSTIMATE ON WHAT POLL SAYS THIS AND WHAT POLL SAYS THAT. lIEBERMAN cLINTON kERRY kENNYEDY bIDEN fEINGOLD AND TO COME OUT, CHALLENGE THIS ADMINISTRATION TO ITS FACE CALL IT FOR WHAT IT IS OUTRIGHT LIARS AND CORRUPTED AND BEGIN TO SLASH AND BURN. IF AMERICANS VOTE THEM OUT THEN LET AMERICANS GO STRAIGHT TO HELL WITH THESE CORRUPT BASTARDS AS WELL.
January 29th, 2006 at 7:16 pmOff topic (sort of)
If 60% of the country hates the president. And 40% love the guy. Is it fair to have guests from both sides in equal numbers?
This applies to other areas, also. This is THE fundamental flaw with news recycler programs like Hardball.
Is there a solution to this problem? Al Franken talks about this. I find this subject most interesting…
January 29th, 2006 at 7:22 pm#26:
January 29th, 2006 at 7:30 pmI think it would be truly incredible if we had equal amount of air time as the conservative talking heads have. Could you imagine if the Liberals had the same amount of air waves as Rush, Bill O’Reilly, Fox News..etc.
Judd got the percentages wrong.
It was actually 53% approved and 46% disapproved when the word terrorism was in the question. If you leave the truth out of the question, like the word terrorism — you’ll get the answer the mainstream media wants, and that’s the Democratic strategy: leave out the truth.
January 29th, 2006 at 7:33 pm#27
You already have more airtime than all those guys put together. CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS…
January 29th, 2006 at 7:35 pmColorado,
January 29th, 2006 at 7:36 pmI’m talking within any given show. For example, does Juan Williams do the people a service when he represents only 50% of a debate on an issue that has 80% support of the people? NO
I would say we would be better off if Juan Williams just stayed at home. Screw him. He thinks he’s saving us by being on the Fox payroll. BS.
Christ is not in the reality based community. But wishful thinking doesn’t make it so. Bush is a loser. He has the opposite of the Midas touch. Everything he touches turns into shit.
January 29th, 2006 at 7:39 pmMichael, surely you can’t be serious. Those are the networks claiming Abramoff is a bipartisan rather than a GOP scandal. Those networks have zero credibility to us and besides fairness to Democrats is not a common attribute of large corporations — especially those that are major defense contractors such as GE!
January 29th, 2006 at 7:44 pmOct. 5, 2005 — Both the FBI and CIA are calling it the first case of espionage in the White House in modern history.
January 29th, 2006 at 7:48 pmOfficials tell ABC News the alleged spy worked undetected at the White House for almost three years. Leandro Aragoncillo, 46, was a U.S. Marine most recently assigned to the staff of Vice President Dick Cheney.
this is definitely the winter of discontent.
Chris Matthews is as smarmy as they can get.
Long live George Bush, the emperor with a pickled brain.
How can it possibly get any worse?
January 29th, 2006 at 7:48 pmbilly,
January 29th, 2006 at 7:50 pmThis is a PNAC-AIPAC thing, right?
While the basic message of this post is accurate (namely, that Matthews’ characterization of the spying as a “winner politically” is unfounded), it would be nice if the story was more honest about the poll numbers.
The CNN/USA Today poll has a margin of error of +- 5 points. So this poll was inconclusive (could’ve been anywhere from 41-56% (right-wrong) to 51-46% (right-wrong).
The CBS/NYT poll had a MOE of +- 3 points. So it, too was inconclusive. Moreover, a second version of the same question that mentioned the word “terrorism” resulted in a 53-46% result. Even with the margin of error, this result is perhaps slightly meaningful. Though the fact that the wording of the question affects the results so much tells you something.
The LA Times/Bloomberg poll also had a MOE of 3 points, which renders the poll a statistical dead heat.
Therefore, it is incorrect to state that “2 of the 3 most recent polls found most Americans disapproved of the program.” A more correct statement would be, “none of the 3 most recent polls found most American disapproved of the program, and one of the polls found most Americans narrowly approved of the program.”
January 29th, 2006 at 7:50 pmI watched the streaming video of the Young Turks last night. The show was about the Alito filibuster. It wasn’t slick but it was real. I think the future of news will be internet broadcasting by a wide variety of sources. Some will offer opinion, some will be more straight news orientd. Cable channels and programs like Hardball are becoming more marginalized all the time and their attempts at getting audience share is only making them worse. If I want fancy graphics and theme music I will go see a movie. If they end up disappearing it is good riddance as far as I am concerned.
January 29th, 2006 at 7:52 pmUggh SPAM filters
January 29th, 2006 at 7:54 pm#32
You have drifted so far left that even networks with a liberal bias can’t satisfy you. Then like a typical lib you can’t maintain any linear thought without launching into some wacko conspiracy theory–you’re quite the piece of work.
January 29th, 2006 at 7:56 pmYou guys are pathetic. Chris Matthews is as balanced as they come and devoted hours and hours to the Plame scandal, which, once again, we Dems have failed to exploit to our bets advantage. I am completely sick of all of you whiners out there who have nothing better to do than complain about a unfair press.
We need an agenda and decent candidates like Mark Warner and Barak Obama. Not whiny loser retreads and opportunists like Kerry, Kennedy and Hillary Clinton making our case for us. Why do you think we continue to lose elections and fail to win news cycles on issues that are clearly in our favor. Sorry but folks like Hillary, Cindy Sheehan, and Kos are not going to take us over the finish line. And whining about Chris Matthews, a guy who worked for Tip O’Neil ain’t going to do it either.
January 29th, 2006 at 7:58 pmbilly,
This is a PNAC-AIPAC thing, right?
Comment by Gus, the Loving OBGYN — January 29, 2006 @
Hard to Say OBY, he was passing info to IRAN. if they knew one another I dont know
January 29th, 2006 at 7:58 pmOkay Bill,
So what’s your strategy? Give it to us. Cause I’m guessing you didn’t post all of that just to bitch at us, right? You do have more?
January 29th, 2006 at 8:02 pm#44
January 29th, 2006 at 8:04 pmDemocrats don’t have one.
Israel has long maintained that as a “close U.S. ally,” it does not spy on the United States. That stance makes the story that ABC News broke late yesterday all the more bizarre. It was revealed that a Philippine spy ring was operating in the office of Vice President Dick Cheney. The Philippines is also a U.S. ally. The espionage case surrounded Leandro Aragoncillo, a naturalized U.S. citizen from the Philippines who was assigned to the Vice President’s staff in 1999 while a member of the U.S. Marine Corps. Al Gore was Vice President when Aragoncillo was first assigned to the White House. Aragoncillo was charged with stealing classified information in Cheney’s office that dealt with detrimental information on Philippines President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo. Aragoncillo was accused of passing the information to opposition politicians in the Philippines who were trying to oust Arroyo.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:06 pmMy strategy? I think we need to stop whining and start talking about alternative solutions. I think we need to stop playing victim and start playing aggressor. I think we need to put new, smart, fresh faces out there speaking well articulated and consistent messages. I think we need stop putting our faith in candidates that are complete losers (Kerry, Dukakis, etc.), and candidates that are unproven, opportunistic and likely to raise as much money for the GOP as the Dems and still lose (Hillary), and rely on proven models that work for us. The collosal failure of Bush has given us the most enormous opportunity we could ever imagine, yet we continue to come off like crying, weak babies with no alternative plan.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:08 pm#47
January 29th, 2006 at 8:09 pmYou can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.
I’m beginning to think that Darwin’s “Survival of the Fittest” should be renamed to “Survival of the most Corrupt”…
January 29th, 2006 at 8:10 pmWell, at least it’s not stupid, lying pig like what we have for President right now.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:10 pmSo its Not the Same as AIPAC, but lookie what else came up;
Franklin also implicated Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Franklin said he kept 83 classified documents, including Sensitive Compartmented Information (SCI), at his West Virginia home to be prepared to answer “point blank” questions from senior Pentagon officials, including Rumsfeld.
Oh What National Security!
and the People want to let Cheney Spy on them???
I think NOT.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:11 pmBill,
I get your intent, and am with you. But what about strategy, logistics, specifics, courses of action, and details… What do you propose we actually do?
January 29th, 2006 at 8:12 pmNice try troll.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:14 pmYou didn’t really say Dukakis did you?
Good lord, that was so long ago my grandma farts dust. You know it’s 2006 right?
January 29th, 2006 at 8:16 pmWell I agree with Bill to a point. Kerry isnt the right one, Hillary, Naw. She was already President once =)
January 29th, 2006 at 8:16 pmObama? Dont know enough about him, doesnt seem to have much Experience…
I’ll bite, what is your next statement?
January 29th, 2006 at 8:17 pmThe only way the Democrats are going to get their power back is if and when the majority of society sinks as low, and swings as far left as you guys. It will happen eventually–you won’t have to do a thing.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:17 pmYou think you are better than anybody else with that attitude and you ain’t gonna go far when you reach those pearly gates. You need to repent for your evil ways.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:19 pmRuss Feingold is a great midwesterner who can lead America to better times.
http://www.draftruss.com/
January 29th, 2006 at 8:19 pmThe only way the Democrats are going to get their power back is if and when the majority of society sinks as low, and swings as far left as you guys. It will happen eventually–you won’t have to do a thing.
Umm no Democrat here.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:19 pmWhats with the ‘left’ talk?
Trolling are we?
Im a Neo-con just like you Michael arent you sick of the corruption yet?
January 29th, 2006 at 8:21 pmTHE REPUBLICANS ARE SPINNING IT, AND MATTHEWS IS BUYING INTO THE SPIN. WHY ARE THE DEMS LETTING IT HAPPEN? WHY AREN’T THOSE POLL NUMBERS BEING QUOTED BY EVERY DEM ON T.V.? C’MON! IT’S AN ELECTION YEAR!
January 29th, 2006 at 8:21 pmHeck Bush looked like a decent whore years ago, now hes just a lame duck, I mean who on the right, in their right mind would vote for another Bush? Come on Michael we can sucker a Democrat into being corrupt, just like Bush and Rove, Bet we can even get ol Norquist and his contacts to throw some greenbacks our way, we cant ‘win’ Power, but we can buy it. We need more abramoffs to pursue our moral agenda right Michael?
January 29th, 2006 at 8:23 pm#58
January 29th, 2006 at 8:24 pmYou’re amazing! You can actually read my mind! I never consciously thought I was better–I just though you were an idiot. By the way don’t preach unless you have message.
#63
January 29th, 2006 at 8:25 pmSounds like you’re going both ways.
Russ Feingold is a bright, capable, honest, solid guy with great ideas. But he won’t necessarily appeal to moderate red state voters. Barack Obama is also of the same ilk but still a bit green. That said, he may be a great VP candidate. We need to stick with proven models…Governors with track records. Warner and Vilsack are the only ones out there who fit that mold, and Warner has the better record and is much more electible. But even Warner can’t win with this pathetic, victim-like mentality.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:26 pmcmon Michael lets get the Power back, whaddya Say? Lets start a campaign office and take old peoples money to pay for the College Republicans fund. Then We can use our contacts to put more corrupt–err Cons into places. Heck we dont care about the people anyway right Michael? We only care about ourselves and Power.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:26 pmRight Michael?
You just made our point. The only Dems on TV are comedians and Keith Olberman.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:28 pmbilly…hmmm..o’liely…you sound like him, you talk like him….exposed! If 99% said IMPEACH, crissy would say ‘look we’re winning!’ a sure sign of a LOSER like him. I quit even watching him a long time ago, he’s just a repub plant along with many others that are taking money under the table.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:29 pmWel duhh Of course us Neo-cons go both Ways Michael, where have you been? We lie and take from every group. What kind of neo-con are you anyway? You say left then right? Us neo-cons screw all.
Say you arent one of them wannabe Neo-cons are you?
January 29th, 2006 at 8:29 pmOne of them Wackos of Scanlons or Falwells we screwed over?
Sick of Matthews and the others? Support the birth of Independent World News.
Click link for more info….
http://www.iwtnews.com/
Please support an alternative to Fox, CNN, and MSNBC.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:29 pmChris Matthews is a vulgar Bush lover and apologist!
He must be fired from his position for putrid ass kissing > lol.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:30 pm#
billy…hmmm..o’liely…you sound like him, you talk like him….exposed! If 99% said IMPEACH, crissy would say ‘look we’re winning!’ a sure sign of a LOSER like him. I quit even watching him a long time ago, he’s just a repub plant along with many others that are taking money under the table.
Comment by wisedup — January 29, 2006 @ 8:29 pm
Olielly? Cmon hes a Straw man, he only thinks hes a Neo-Con, like ol Michael here
January 29th, 2006 at 8:31 pm#68 I’d like to introduce you to #67
You guys compliment eachother quite nicely… I’m sure you two could discuss the finer points of Brokeback Mountain and other such nonsense…I’ll go now so you can be alone…
January 29th, 2006 at 8:31 pmAnd he’s a homophobe.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:34 pmBill,
In a recent poll… I posted the results somewhere current, Al Gore was the leading front runner. By like 45%. He won in 2000. He’s older, wiser, and so far, the only Democrat who has actually said anything Democratic in years. If he would stay active and keep his spine, he might be the one to beat. He’s known, has experience, and is free from skeletons.
In this country, women and the minority vote are the two majorities. Unfortunately the don’t vote as a majority, but with Obama as a running mate, Gore might motivate them both to vote for a ticket that supports women’s and minority’s issues. It’s still a bit premature, but maybe the pro-active approach for us is to encourage Gore and spread the word. Word of mouth, after all, is the best form of advertizing there is…
January 29th, 2006 at 8:35 pmBill,
Here’s the poll:
Presidential Primary Poll
Evan Bayh 9%
Joe Biden 1%
Wes Clark 13%
Hillary Clinton 7%
John Edwards 6%
Russ Feingold 11%
Al Gore 45%
John Kerry 4%
Tom Vilsack 0%
Mark Warner 4%
Total votes: 493
January 29th, 2006 at 8:41 pmI’ve never understood how he ever survived in the business, other than the only standard seems to be suck up to the radical right management. Poor thing is just not a quality thinker.
Comment by RightPunch — January 29, 2006 @ 8:41 pm
I’m telling you – “Survival of the Most Corrupt”… “Fittest” no longer matters. :)
January 29th, 2006 at 8:43 pmYou guys did see this one right?
Washington Post
January 28, 2006
2003 Draft Legislation Covered Eavesdropping
The lawyers knew this shit wasn’t legal, so drafted up legislation to change the Patriot Act, dubbed Patriot Act 2, so it would include Bush’s wiretapping, but Congress laughed at it, so it was removed.
They had no idea he was already doing it, because the Congressional members in the know were gagged.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:44 pmWell, it isn’t a loser, not politically anyway. It seems the vast majority of the United States population dislikes what Bush is doing, but he is still winning politically. There is no opposition party in this country, not one that can turn all of Bush’s mistakes into their own political capital. Appeasement should not be an option for Democrats.
Our President could fellate a goat while he gives his State of the Union. He would say it was for National security reasons, and call all whom disagree terrorists. Americans will take it because very few in any opposition party are willing to stand up for them, and the new season of survivor is starting (meaning, who has time to see who is messing us over while there is quality entertainment on).
I think Gore Vidal is right, there is only one political party in the United States…..with two right wings: Democrat and Republican.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:47 pmUnbelievable,
I agree with you about Gore and feel he his capable, well positioned and would make a great President (and should have). However, I’m afraid the poor handling that was done to him in the 2000 election has made him damaged goods. His ability to remake himself as a fresh, reinvigorated candidate is also not helped by new appearance. He also runs the risk of appearing like Hillary and Kerry (changing positions any which way they feel they will gain political advantage) by recasting his image (which he would need to do). Maybe he can do it. Time will tell…
January 29th, 2006 at 8:47 pmSpudge,
I think the proof is overwhelming now that he broke the law. I guess our problem is still the partisan politics that isn’t doing anyting about it… The horses have been brought to water, but are refusing to drink.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:49 pmYou guys compliment eachother quite nicely… I’m sure you two could discuss the finer points of Brokeback Mountain and other such nonsense…I’ll go now so you can be alone…
January 29th, 2006 at 8:50 pmHey, thanks for the tip on how to keep you guys away!
If you guys really want to voice your opinion on Tweety Matthews and read thousands of like-minded opinions, please get on over to:
http://openlettertochrismatthews.blogspot.com/
It’s well worth the trip.
January 29th, 2006 at 8:56 pmI apologize if someone mentioned this before….but Mathews used to seem like a fairly rational guy.. Am I the only one who suspects that SOMEONE in the reich wing of this country is paying this guy alot of money to come up with his increasingly bizarre “talking points” ?
January 29th, 2006 at 8:56 pmBill,
It’ll have been 8 years since 2000. The average American doesn’t recall the events from last year, so I think that will have passed. Plus, Michael Moore made many liberals and some moderates feel empathy for him with Fahrenheit 9/11, doing significant damage control.
What he does between now and then will certainly have the ability to redefine the past. After all, Abraham Lincoln didn’t win on his first try, or his second… but look how things turned out for him… And Gore has already proven that he can win :).
But, yes, time will tell… Three years is a very long way to go…
January 29th, 2006 at 8:58 pmThe Russerts’ and Matthews’ et al. all work for GE at the end of the day. GE is a military/industrial complex beast. That’s it.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:00 pmAgree…I just think Warner may be a better candidate in 3 years. As long as it’s not Hillary or Kerry, we will be in a position to win.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:00 pmHey Wallace-
You’re wrong. Gore WON in 2000.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:01 pmHey, thanks for the tip on how to keep you guys away!
Comment by Lily — January 29, 2006 @ 8:50 pm
And if that isn’t enough, you and I can start discussing periods :)
January 29th, 2006 at 9:03 pmI think it would take the discovery that Bush had spied on moderate republicans in order to produce impeachment. And even then, I’m not sure there are enough of them to matter.
Comment by RightPunch — January 29, 2006 @ 8:50 pm
Sad but true… looks like we’re waiting this one out until November…
January 29th, 2006 at 9:04 pmoh and lets not forget that Bush+ Co’s rather “liberal” definition of “terrorist” includes peace activists, quakers, etc. Does anyone doubt that these neanderthallic nazis were spying on any organized group that was against the war? 9-11 is the best thing that ever happened to Bush + company.
Americans kill thier fellow americans through malice and carelessness at the rate of one 9-11 every week. Lets not forget that folks. When i go out on the highway, the smelly, bearded guys I worry about ramming into me arent Omar and Ahab.. they are Bubba, Jeeter, and a some of the alchoholic klanlovin rednecks that crawled out from under thier bibles long enough to learn how to get on the interweb and post on these forums.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:04 pmAnd if that isn’t enough, you and I can start discussing periods :)
Comment by unbelievable
ROFLMAO
January 29th, 2006 at 9:06 pmRightPunch, if it’s ok with you, I think we should all post an “I forgive you” after truly asinine comments.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:09 pmRightPunch,
Good point.
Have you heard about the men who watch their wives give birth and then could never have sex with them again because they’d seen the functional aspects of female gentalia? Those guys are conservatives too!
You’re more sympathetic of them than I. Having once walked among them, it’s more like a healthy, recovered leper perspective now… I know they are suffering, but I just can’t force myself to make contact.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:11 pmROFLMAO
Comment by Lily — January 29, 2006 @ 9:06 pm
You started it :) Just following your lead…
January 29th, 2006 at 9:11 pmHow lonley and pyschotic do you have to be to continue posting at a site that has banned you months ago? I am wondering just when this guys will be considered a stalker. Judd should get a restarining order.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:13 pmhow did we all get so far off track?
January 29th, 2006 at 9:14 pmthanks rightpunch, very interesting analysis.. this is essentially what i’ve always believed.. that people believe what they want to beleive, and that they shape thier “logic” to conform to what they emotionally want to beleive is true. this is why I think Bush would still have about 30% support even if someone found a picture of him taking cash from abrahamoff. lets face it, republicans these days pretty much thrive off ignorance, working their bible beating masses into a frenzy about brain dead women and embryos, all the while cheering on a war that has killed tens of thousands of living, breathing, people, who are conscious and have feelings, emotions, and memories. its all ok because “hussien was a bad man”. my question is this… how many innocents is it acceptable to kill in order to bring a murderer to justice?
January 29th, 2006 at 9:14 pmThe Bush crime family start wars, war-profiteer, steal elections both domestically and internationally, sell souls, intimidate, smear……etc.. It’s a CIA/Skull-N-Bones thing. These are some seriously evil people we’re dealing with here and Cheney’s even worse. Yikes!
January 29th, 2006 at 9:16 pmHow lonley and pyschotic do you have to be to continue posting at a site that has banned you months ago? I am wondering just when this guys will be considered a stalker. Judd should get a restarining order.
Comment by SpudgeBoy — January 29, 2006 @ 9:13 pm
He’ll be involved in the next Columbine. And his parents will blame Marilyn Manson and Think Progress…
January 29th, 2006 at 9:16 pm#92 That and the fact his brother is running for the lieutenent govenour position in pennsylvania.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:17 pmW(wallace),
I forgive you.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:18 pmhow many innocents is it acceptable to kill in order to bring a murderer to justice?
Comment by john deek — January 29, 2006 @ 9:14 pm
If he’s black and poor – just one. If he’s white and poor – a serial amount. And if he’s white and filthy rich – as many as he would like.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:18 pm#92 That and the fact his brother is running for the lieutenent govenour position in pennsylvania.
Comment by Clif — January 29, 2006 @ 9:17 pm
Really? I did not know…
Well, as much fun as this has been, I need to say good- night.
Thanks for all of the side splitting humor amid this mounting frustration, everyone. It’s preferable to laugh than to cry, I do believe… And you guys are a riot!
January 29th, 2006 at 9:23 pmSleep well unbelievable. :)
January 29th, 2006 at 9:25 pmJudd’s on a roll, the number of posts is going down. ty Judd
What can be done about Chris Matthews?
Why can’t we stand up for ourselves anymore?
I’m just sickened that this dope can continue his partisan talk without any admonishment….
People still believe what they hear on TV – so it’s vital they get it straight.
Is there no watch dog (beside Media Matters) that has any actual “bite” to get these guys to tell the truth?
Or am I naive?
January 29th, 2006 at 9:25 pmTrueBlue,
January 29th, 2006 at 9:28 pmA lot of us have been sending e-mails to MSNBC. It may not be much, but at least it’s something.
Hi Lily,
I too have sent emails,… but nothing happens.
This dope continues his rants.
Just like Bush continues his illegal activities.
What happened to all of those Baby-Bommer Activists?
Why can’t the next generation muster up enough indignation to get this CLEARLY inept Admin. out of office?
What is wrong with America?
January 29th, 2006 at 9:34 pmThe Bush spinmeisters are out in full numbers; the msm with suckups like Matthews cheer them on. I won’t watch the new Friday lineup with Scarborough, Cosby and Carlson, as Tweety tries to add to his Republican credentials. Matthews’ ratings are not as good as they once were, and with the ever increasing brown-nosing of GWB, even some conservatives might recognize it as fawning.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:34 pmSimply changing the name of an illegal program doesn’t change the program. What Bush&Co are so good at and the msm so eager for is spinning the truth far into the zone of unreality.
Write MSNBC and tell them Matthews needs a long vacation. I did.
BOOMER…. uggh
January 29th, 2006 at 9:35 pmIf those of us here who wrote to MSNBC represent a microcosym of the public, MSNBC will get the message eventually.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:35 pmTrue Blue,
January 29th, 2006 at 9:35 pmSomebody posted that info. I’m sorry, I don’t know. I can’t handle watching it anymore. There was a time I actually enjoyed it though. Anyway, I agree about boycotting.
RightPucnh and True Blue, please go back to post # 87 and click on the link. All the answers to your questions are there. Promise.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:36 pmOops, that should have been addressed to RightPunch. Forgive me! :D
January 29th, 2006 at 9:36 pmyou gotta love it
Impeachment talk is a dangling carrot. Impeachment, imschmeatment; there won’t be any impeachment. It is just happy talk to keep the ‘meddlesome few’ busy.
The spying continues. It’s information wars.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:39 pmSo what you’re saying is that while King George proclaims a “War on Terrorism”, he’s able to actually wage war against uor Constitution, right under our noses, and get away with it because of a political sleight of hand???
OK. Now the question becomes: “How dumb have the American people become?”
January 29th, 2006 at 9:39 pm#92
Why wasn’t it a landslide for Gore in 2000? I mean after the awsome 1990s it should have been an easy win.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:42 pmHere is an outstanding argument for impeaching Bush, if you have the time. Covers all the bases:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060130/holtzman
January 29th, 2006 at 9:42 pmI agree that the president is turning the NSA surveillance question into a winner politically, in the larger sense that is has diverted public attention from important issues to the What’s New? evidence of politicians shmoozing with lobbyists. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the coming action against Iran, spying, torture, the benign neglect of our citizens and of our domestic infrastructure are all taking a back seat right now to this Rove-driven ‘issue’ that I don’t believe will affect Bush in any way.
Evidence? The short non-featured Think Progress piece dealing with the Quadrennial Defense Review, a document that continues runaway military spending ($400 billion annually) for useless military junk and military forces, when we have no military threat in the world, received almost no attention while the frequently-repeated Abramoff threads garner hundreds of responses. (I don’t agree with Lawrence Korb, but he deserved better.)
So in that sense the Abramoff hoopla is a political winner for the Chimp.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:42 pmOK. Now the question becomes: “How dumb have the American people become?â€
True Blue, I think someone posted a link to answer that question too. No, seriously!
January 29th, 2006 at 9:46 pmThe NSA Spying Scandal Center has all the latest news, statutes, court cases, DOJ memos and more for the exploding Bus domestic surveillance scandal.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:47 pmTracy, because the media (yes all of it!) gets behind the candidate that promises to do the most to bolster corporate profits. Bush’s many sins get glossed over while Gore’s every move is ridiculed and scrutinized. Wouldn’t believe it if I hadn’t watched it myself. Oh and the CEO’s of Diebold and ES&S (brothers) were Bush pioneers.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:47 pmThe problem is that the Judiciary and Legislative branches have been eviscerated by fascists. Result – no checks, no balances.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:48 pmAs part of its all-out campaign to defend its indefensible illegal domestic wiretapping program, the Bush administration is turning to one of its tried and true marketing techniques – branding. The product? The “Terrorist Surveillance Program”…
For the full story, see:
January 29th, 2006 at 9:48 pm“Branding the Domestic Spying Scandal.”
#89
“And Gore has already proven that he can win”
Not U.S. president or a presidential primary…remember he was defeated in 1988 by the legendary Michael Dukakis.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:51 pmTracy,
January 29th, 2006 at 9:51 pmI forgive you too.
#136
Why wasn’t it a landslide for Gore in 2000? I mean after the awsome 1990s it should have been an easy win.
BTW are you gay, i.e. homosexual?
January 29th, 2006 at 9:53 pm#139
Can you answer my question why Gore didn’t win in a landslide?
January 29th, 2006 at 9:54 pmBTW are you gay, i.e. homosexual?
Comment by Tracy
Tracy,
January 29th, 2006 at 9:55 pmWhere have you been, honey? The majority of posters on this site are gay/lesbian. But it’s ok, we’re not using “guilt by association” here.
Tracy,
January 29th, 2006 at 9:56 pmI was always told that nature abhors a vacuum. What’s between your ears must be really abhorant.
People joke about Mike Dukakis a lot, but he was my governor before he ran for the Presidency and he is an incredibly smart, decent man (which probably disqualifies him right off the bat) that governed extremely effectively. Quite honestly, he was destroyed by Bush 41’s Rovian smear machine. He wasn’t out of his league as a man or a leader, just as a slimeball. You’ve got to excel at slime to win that job.
January 29th, 2006 at 9:57 pmBTW are you gay, i.e. homosexual?
Comment by Tracy — January 29, 2006 @ 9:53 pm
Careful Tracy, your homophobia is showing again….
January 29th, 2006 at 9:57 pmTracy, your question was answered twice. Are you paying attention?
January 29th, 2006 at 9:59 pmAnd don’t worry, Tracy. No one is going to think you’re a lesbian just because you feel compelled to come here and see what we all have to say.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:03 pm#134
Dude, Gore is gimp and flake…that is why he couldn’t run away with a very easily winnable election.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:03 pmHey Tracy,
January 29th, 2006 at 10:05 pmGore won the vote, the Supreme Court nullified the results.
If Gore is a gimp (whatever that is) and flake….what would that make the current Fraud-in-Chief?
January 29th, 2006 at 10:05 pm“BTW are you gay, i.e. homosexual?
Comment by Tracy — January 29, 2006 @ 9:53 pm
Careful Tracy, your homophobia is showing again….”
Comment by Gregor Samsa — January 29, 2006 @ 9:57 pm
With a sexually ambiguous online name like “Tracy” it’s a safer bet that it’s cruising for action.
Looking for a grudgef*ck Tracy?
January 29th, 2006 at 10:06 pm#145
Gregor you know that I am not a female so why is Right Punch still in the dark about this? My best highschool friend that I still talk to frequently is gay as well as my wife’s father. I am no more homophobic than anyone in this blog.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:06 pmLike I said.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:07 pm#146
No one has yet to explain why the 2000 election was even close and neither have you. Care to try?
January 29th, 2006 at 10:07 pmTracy’s brain is like am ameoba’s. It can respond to stimuli, but cannot deliver an idea.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:08 pm#148
Lily dear, why are you also still in the dark?
January 29th, 2006 at 10:08 pmTracy is male? Oh no! A man? Ugh!
January 29th, 2006 at 10:09 pmposts 134 and 136 explained, you just don’t pay attention Tracy. You’re an annoying troll (oxymoronic as that sounds)….
January 29th, 2006 at 10:09 pmTracy, I guess I don’t really mind the fact that you’re a man. I just wish I hadn’t called you “honey.”
January 29th, 2006 at 10:10 pmreplace oxymoronic with redundant…..it’s late and I’m getting punchy.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:11 pmSorry, man I don’t swing in that direction. But Gore was the victim of a voter disenfranchisement strategy – or were you on one of those “sex cruises” to take advantage of the looser child-molestation laws of other countries during the 2000 selection?
January 29th, 2006 at 10:12 pmreplace oxymoronic with redundant…..it’s late and I’m getting punchy.
Comment by Jay
lol, me too. I guess I’ll call it a night.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:12 pm#157
You are number three that can’t seem to answer my question as to why Gore didn’t win easily in 2000? How about you?
January 29th, 2006 at 10:12 pmGregor you know that I am not a female so why is Right Punch still in the dark about this?
Comment by Tracy — January 29, 2006 @ 10:06 pm
That is a question I cannot answer. I know RightPunch about as well as you do.
My best highschool friend that I still talk to frequently is gay as well as my wife’s father. I am no more homophobic than anyone in this blog.
I am glad you are so tolerant, but the answer to the question “are you gay?” is really irrelevant.
Now, do you think the domestic surveillance program is a “political winner”?
January 29th, 2006 at 10:13 pm#160
You haven’t been posting here that long if you are just now comprehending that or did it just take that long for you? LOL!
January 29th, 2006 at 10:15 pmYou’re right again, RightPunch.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:15 pmTracy, I forgive you too. Now I’ll go to bed.
This Tracy character is as thick as a brick! Jeeez…I give up.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ;(
January 29th, 2006 at 10:15 pmAnother Crony Hack Republican Defending Us!
Now Bush has appointed another political crony to head a terrorism/disaster related government function. In this case the crony hack is Simonson, a former lawyer for Amtrack. He is heading Project Bioshield.
Simonson’s “heck of a job†Brownie type decision: to buy just 100,000 doses of a drug that victims of radiation poisoning can use to help stop internal bleeding and survive. Why? The hack says people can just go to hospitals. Just like in Katrina? And what are the hospitals going to do with hundreds of thousands of people? Mr. Simonson decided he didn’t want to be interviewed by 60 Minutes to answer any of these questions. More Americans are at risk because of another Bush crony hack appointee in charge of our homeland defense. This is simply not forgivable.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/27/60minutes/main1245714.shtml
Consolation: Bush’s ineptitude extends to law breaking. He will be impeached shortly for breaking any one of multiple laws. Let’s just hope we get Bush and his crooked old white male buddy crew out before America’s next disaster.
What lawbreaking, you ask? To support its failed policies in the Middle East, the Bush Administration conducts a program of illegal spying on US citizens without warrants in violation of Federal Law (FISA), tortures in violation of the Geneva Convention, and in violation of numerous laws outs a CIA agent as political payback. There will be accountability. Legal charges are coming. Bush’s scheme to pack the Supreme Court with judges deferential to the Executive will not save him. His illegal actions and failures are too blatant to avoid the impending impeachment and criminal charges.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:16 pm#153
Just shows your ignorance and prejudice.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:17 pmMatthews is such a moron that he fails to realize the only polls that count in Bush’s case are the grand jury’s vote to indict him and the courtroom jury’s vote to convict him. Why is Tweety so frantically working with Rove? Did one of those wiretaps get something on him he’d rather not be made public?
January 29th, 2006 at 10:19 pmTracy, I repeat:
Hey Tracy,
Gore won the vote, the Supreme Court nullified the results.
Comment by WaltTheMan — January 29, 2006 @ 10:05 pm
I might also add that that was in Florida as well as the US.
A recount of the vote in Florida proved that Gore was the winner. Papers throughout Florida and an analysis of the results by the NY Times, Washington Post and the LA Times came to this conclusion.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:19 pm#168
“I am glad you are so tolerant, but the answer to the question “are you gay?†is really irrelevant”
Hey when he starts calling me sweetie…it a very legitimate question.
“Now, do you think the domestic surveillance program is a “political winnerâ€?”
I don’t know yet. Time will tell, but it seems that the American people are pretty much split on this issue just like they have been for the last four years on many other issues.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:22 pmYou are number three that can’t seem to answer my question as to why Gore didn’t win easily in 2000? How about you?
Comment by Tracy — January 29, 2006 @ 10:12 pm
That is a very difficult question to answer: Why didn’t Gore win easily?
To be honest, I don’t think anyone has the answer. Maybe the electorate thought it was a time for a change. It happens: even Churchill was voted out. Maybe his personality wasn’t attractive for many voters: The media did a good job at ridiculing him on his supposed stiffness and the “I invented the Internet” dictum.
Having said that, I don’t think we should put much weight on the qualifier “easily”. Fact is, like other bloogers have already pointed out (repeatedly), Gore won the election. Had the Supreme Court not stopped the recount, history would have been written differently.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:25 pmI don’t know yet. Time will tell, but it seems that the American people are pretty much split on this issue just like they have been for the last four years on many other issues.
Comment by Tracy — January 29, 2006 @ 10:22 pm
“Time will tell”? What will time tell?
Can’t you tell me your opinion now? What do you think of the president claiming that he can order secret wiretaps with no oversight?
January 29th, 2006 at 10:27 pmIf we did away with the electoral college you would never get a Republican in the White House. Tracy knows that, he’s just baiting you. It was designed to keep the majority from running roughshod on the minority in the less populated areas. It has a downside, as we see.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:28 pm#144
“…but he was my governor before he ran for the Presidency”
My condolences.
“He wasn’t out of his league as a man or a leader, just as a slimeball.”
He was out of his league because he was a liberal. He was a slime for refusing to apologize to the victim’s families of convicted killer Willie Horton and vetoing a bill, as Massachusetts governor, that would have limited furloughs to convicted criminals.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:40 pmChrissy’s saying that Bush’s Illegal spying of innocent Americans is okay is the same as saying James Frey is an author of high credibility.
I think that tommorrow I will send Chrissy Matthews my sixth
January 29th, 2006 at 10:42 pmangry e-mail to him and that Keith Olbermann is the only journalist with credibility that I will watch and listen to.
GGG,
January 29th, 2006 at 10:42 pmI disagree with you on he basis for the electoral college. Remember that it was founded when this nation had no electronic transmission capability. It was established because the founding fathers desired no other recourse for gathering a forum for the election of our national leader in the days of horsedrawn transmission and travel.
This meant that the election had to be entrusted to Congress.
Of course, if they had listened to Ben Franklin, light towers would have been posted up and down the coast, just as the Romans had done 2000 years earlier.
#164
“But Gore was the victim of a voter disenfranchisement strategy”
Disenfranchisement? Democrats not allowing thousands of military ballots to be counted is pretty low considing most of them would have gone to Bush. Violating election laws and having a state supreme court in your back pocket is downright fraudlant.
“…or were you on one of those “sex cruises†to take advantage of the looser child-molestation laws of other countries during the 2000 selection?”
Since you seem to be very familiar with what ever as “sex cruise” is….you must be kin to Mark Hulett.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:48 pm#172
You can’t answer my question either? The BS reason that the media was the reason is just that, BS.
January 29th, 2006 at 10:50 pmRightPunch, I pity her too. Sad human…
January 29th, 2006 at 10:56 pm#181
Thanks for actually offering up a logical and thoughful explanation. Other’s here…take note.
“To be honest, I don’t think anyone has the answer. Maybe the electorate thought it was a time for a change.”
Why was it time for a change? I am in total agreement the that 1990s were a time of relative peace and great prosperity.
“Maybe his personality wasn’t attractive for many voters:”
Well he did try and fool everyone that he was soooo smart, about what I don’t know, that he came off as arrogant and snobby.
“Fact is, like other bloogers have already pointed out (repeatedly), Gore won the election. Had the Supreme Court not stopped the recount, history would have been written differently”
If there a was a full recount of ALL of the counties in Florida, not just those cherry picked by Gore’s campaign, the presidential result would have been the same…Bush would have won.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:00 pm*shrug*
I don’t know what the big deal is with this… only about 1/3 of the population seem to think that Bush is taking us in the right direction, yet about 1/2 seem to think that this NSA spying gig is okay.
So in some respects, yeah, the Rove Machine has (so far) turned the issue into a “political winner”… given how Bush normall turns anything into “political fumunda” by simply talking about it.
Doesn’t mean it’s *legal*… or that it’s right… or that it won’t turn against him… for the time being, it’s a “political winner.”
January 29th, 2006 at 11:03 pmTracy,
January 29th, 2006 at 11:04 pmThere are two areas in Jacksonville Florida that are disadvantaged. They are called the Northside and the Westside. In 2000 Kathlene Harris moved so many individuals from these areas to felony status that two and three year olds were classified as felons. Their parents were classified in the same manner. The two and three year olds did not attempt to vote and their parents were denied the chance. Was this fair?
He was out of his league because he was a liberal. He was a slime for refusing to apologize to the victim’s families of convicted killer Willie Horton and vetoing a bill, as Massachusetts governor, that would have limited furloughs to convicted criminals.
Comment by Tracy
Total Bullshit.
Statistically murderers have the lowest recidivism rate of all incarcerated criminals and are likely to commit the crime once, in the heat of passion, and never commit crimes again. Not all murderers are anti-social sociopaths and most anti-social sociopaths never commit murder and still manage to do alot of damage throughout a lifetime. Dukakis wasn’t responsible for the furlough program which is a legitimate rehabilitative tool and it did end during his tenure as Gov. Statistically, murderers also happen to be the most intelligent of a prison population, and the inmate population as a whole is usually a few points higher than the correctional officers.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:08 pmSo Let Me get this Straight
The Media, and allthe people whom work there apparantly
want me and you and all your kids, mom and pop, whatever
you want US to let George and Cheney,
Whom have both spied and been Spied upon
and whom cant even control the crooked senators and lobbyists
Nor the People In the White House STEALING and taking Home\Documents among other things, Influence Peddling, Billion dollar wars by some MCnamara Junior Slideruler ‘Genius’ and the Corrupt congressman and bush Unitary Powers?
‘I dont think SO.’
January 29th, 2006 at 11:09 pmi
#182
“What do you think of the president claiming that he can order secret wiretaps with no oversight?”
All the fact aren’t out yet. That is what the congressional inquiry is for.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:09 pmBut isn’t W a serial killer?
January 29th, 2006 at 11:10 pmRightPunch -
Ya… shame on them for believing that meme.
It’s just a matter of time before this one goes in the ol’ “political stinker” bin; the more light that’s shed on this domestic spying thing, the worse it’s gonna look.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:11 pmThe White House surely Must Be Joking
January 29th, 2006 at 11:11 pmIn 204, I was responding to 201.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:11 pmWhy was it time for a change? I am in total agreement the that 1990s were a time of relative peace and great prosperity.
Comment by Tracy — January 29, 2006 @ 11:00 pm
You are again asking a question that I cannot possibly answer, and maybe nobody can. I repeat: Even a true war-time leader like Churchill was voted out. Why would people not vote for the leader who took them through one of the worst conflagrations in recent memory is something historians still debate.
If there a was a full recount of ALL of the counties in Florida, not just those cherry picked by Gore’s campaign, the presidential result would have been the same…Bush would have won.
Here you enter the realm of pure speculation. Again, fact is that after the recount was completed, the majority of the votes were for Gore. That is the truth of the matter and is backed up by the available evidence.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:12 pmWith Tracy and the trolls, (sounds like a boy band) you see the result of a concerted effort by the right over the last 40 years to politicize and propagandize the population and feed them moralistic conservative nonsense and ideology, bad information that appeals to their ignorance, fear and bias instead of facts and figures about the real world. He’s no different than the people who conducted the Salem witch hunts or allowed and abetted Hitler’s rise to power. He’s an ignorant, short-sighted and self-involved fool.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:15 pmWhy are any of you even giving Tracy the time of day? He/she already been playing like a broken record for hours.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:15 pmIt’s just a matter of time before this one goes in the ol’ “political stinker†bin; the more light that’s shed on this domestic spying thing, the worse it’s gonna look.
Comment by EconAtheist — January 29, 2006 @ 11:11 pm
Yupp and since they was Spying on people, how can they be trusted with a Unitary Executive? They cant even stop the crap in congress, nor secure the WH doors apparently if Gannon came and went =), 200 hunnert times, and if Cheney got documents stolen by a spy, and Franklin was taking home secret Documents (and copying?) not to mention Safavian and the procurement office, I mean to say this
YOUR INFORMATION ISNT SAFE IN THE WHITE HOUSE!
January 29th, 2006 at 11:16 pmBut isn’t W a serial killer?
Comment by WaltTheMan
No more than Charles Manson, who only ordered the hits, tho he actually did commit one or two he was never charged with. W is a war criminal.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:16 pm#183
“If we did away with the electoral college you would never get a Republican in the White House.”
In your dreams! Reagan kicked the crap out of Carter AND Dukakis in every respect. Clinton didn’t even get a majority, i.e. above 50% in 1992 or 1994! No electorial college in congressional races and the Democrats haven’t regained control of the House or Senate yet.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:17 pmRo\/eRs JEsT M/-\D (auze he ‘fell’ fer da NSA “secret” about Echelon Carnivore and Magic Lantern. We GotZ more Fer ya R0\/3R.
S][ G |\|g3|)
-the IT Guys.
“Moron”
January 29th, 2006 at 11:17 pm-Scotty ‘Dr.Evil’
TRacy is doing some serious fishin…Whats todays Euphenism Tracy?
January 29th, 2006 at 11:19 pmIt’s just a matter of time before this one goes in the ol’ “political stinker†bin; the more light that’s shed on this domestic spying thing, the worse it’s gonna look.
Comment by EconAtheist
Absolutely.
History repeats itself and those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it. When it comes out that this is just another Republican effort to spy on their political enemies here at home, to consolidate and retain political power, it will end the same way as it did for Nixon. And that’s all it is or ever was. We were at war then, too. Leopards don’t change their spots, and neither do Republicans. Frank Church, from Idaho, and you don’t get more conservative than Idaho. The Church commission. Google it.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:21 pmAre we still Stuck on Domestic and Foreign?
Man you guys and your WERDS
In your dreams! Reagan kicked the crap out of Carter AND Dukakis in every respect. Clinton didn’t even get a majority, i.e. above 50% in 1992 or 1994! No electorial college in congressional races and the Democrats haven’t regained control of the House or Senate yet.
Comment by Tracy — January 29, 2006 @ 11:17 pm
And your Rehash Crap.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:21 pmHistoreeeeeeeeeeee
Hullo
#184
“So clearly you aren’t averse to the terms – just that you in classic homophobic and stereotypical fashion believe that only a homosexual can show any sort of positive nor nurturing emotions?”
I have dear homosexual friends…so I am not averse to the term. If you are gay, then you answered my question.
“How often does your gay friend wince at you, or tell you that you’ve been unkind?”
I am not unkind and he is very much conservative. His sexual preference has never been an issue between us.
“In your state I’m sure it’s not possible for you to actually see yourself or bring in new facts in a critical manner.”
You have yet to bring any.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:25 pmGGG & I Said:
But isn’t W a serial killer?
Comment by WaltTheMan
No more than Charles Manson, who only ordered the hits, tho he actually did commit one or two he was never charged with. W is a war criminal.
Comment by G. Gordon Giddy
I say:
Isn’t mental midget is more apt.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:26 pm#197
“There was a full recount, actually a couple of them. And they all showed Gore the winner”
Show the bi-partisian evidence then.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:26 pm#199
Was it fair that so many military ballots were thrown out?
January 29th, 2006 at 11:28 pmSee Tracy your ‘base’ is onto your ‘con’ game, the Robertson Rip Offs, The Peace groups spying, Cheney spyin on his own CONS, and the Abramoff Arms sales, and perhaps even murder.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:28 pmDelay and Yukos Oil, and Abramoff, and of course Norquist.
Not to even get me started on the 194 billion dollar ripoff, and the 8 billion gone missing in IRAQ, to Buschs Botch Katrina Effort, due to cronyism, and the Delay “Family” rip off thing of Decent people, And I could Keep on an on
Yet, You will go on about the past, and Blaming those who arent responsible for the current Mess the BUSH ADMIN, BTW is in the Hands of the Republicans, and boy have they ever screwed the Kitty.
Any way,
Continue on Chattering amongst yourself
#
#199
Was it fair that so many military ballots were thrown out?
Comment by Tracy — January 29, 2006 @ 11:28 pm
Historeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
GIT over it.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:29 pm#190
Why did Dukakis veto the bill while he was governor?
January 29th, 2006 at 11:30 pmDoes something make a sound when it Implodes?
Naw it Justs points fingers, in vain.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:31 pmYa know, I was just thinking How many Times Bushes has used the Veto..
January 29th, 2006 at 11:32 pm#190
Why did Dukakis veto the bill while he was governor?
Comment by Tracy
The bill probably sucked. Most of them are full of pork.
Why has Bush not vetoed one single bill since he’s been in office?
Answer: He’s just a rubber stamp.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:32 pmBut bush doesnt use veto, naw, he uses the ’signings’
January 29th, 2006 at 11:34 pmReally? Yes.
Wow How many Times?
More than any other president.
Wow Isnt that re-interpreting the Law?
Why yes, it does, in effect.
So then what mr ho says is that
Bush is rubber stamping the Bills with his Interpretation?
Though hes not a Lawyer?
So Tracy what do you Think About Signings?
January 29th, 2006 at 11:37 pmNo electorial college in congressional races and the Democrats haven’t regained control of the House or Senate yet.
Comment by Tracy — January 29, 2006 @ 11:17 pm
Ah… the beauty of gerrymandering. Two can play that game. I hope that Democrats learn that bipartisanship as sheep with wolves is a losing proposition. I think if you pukes lose power, as we all fully expect you will, you screwed the pooch, it was your own undoing, and you are just walking dead that haven’t got the message yet. Buh-Bye!
January 29th, 2006 at 11:37 pmMatthews: Bush’s Warrantless Domestic Surveillance Is “A Winner Politicallyâ€
Well, except for Chris and Elizabeth — a Bush love-fest Valentine for two — “Bush’s “warrantless domestic surveillance” is not ‘a winner politically’ for Bush or the GOP, a fact that will become more obvious on the nation’s editorial pages and front pages in the coming months. In fact, Elizabeth might take a peak at the lead Op-ed in her very own NYT to discover that Bush and Cheney and Rove’s egregious lies and gross distortions about the program do not compute with the facts.
But, for Matthews even to suggest that the NSA warrantless domestic spying program a “winner politically” for Bush and the GOP may be a big winner suggests that the pundit is seeking a more personal kind of win — to keep up the mortgage and property taxes on his $4.5 million Nantucket summer home. That is, if Matthews wants to secure continued invitations to to the those delightful Nantucket dinner parties during the summer — and, of course, to make sure his phone calls get returned.
And that’s the way it is for the GOP’s favorite cable-news courtiers and lapdogs in these days. If you want access, you stand and deliver!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
January 29th, 2006 at 11:39 pm=)
January 29th, 2006 at 11:39 pmTracy you HAD many facts a second ago I thought perhaps you were a Lawyer or Political official? What are these signings?
#201
“Statistically murderers have the lowest recidivism rate of all incarcerated criminals and are likely to commit the crime once, in the heat of passion, and never commit crimes again.”
Well that just isn’t the case in the Willie Horton case is it?
http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0158_Dukakis__Willie_Hort.html
I don’t know about you but I actually care about my wife, daughter, and son. You are the one vomiting the BS!
January 29th, 2006 at 11:40 pmIn other words, if you pukes delivered what you were advertising, your product may have had staying power. Do you still own a Pet rock? and how much do you suppose it’s worth today?
January 29th, 2006 at 11:40 pmmr ho like tracy she smart
January 29th, 2006 at 11:40 pmmr ho like smart
I’m not going to read your link to some young Republican college puke. He’s not a vet, is he?
January 29th, 2006 at 11:41 pmMr punch you tell Tracy Call Mr ho
January 29th, 2006 at 11:42 pmmr ho call me fi fi fo-fo fo fi fi
#210
Gregor gave a decent answer to my question although “I don’t know” is something that my 10 year old son says a lot.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:43 pmcome back tracy! mr ho wuvs yew!
January 29th, 2006 at 11:43 pmmr ho likes inexperience college
Okay so Tracy, About these BUSH SIGNINGS of TODAY.
What of these?
January 29th, 2006 at 11:44 pm#212
When Clinton bombed that asprin factory and killed civilians that doesn’t make him a war criminal?
January 29th, 2006 at 11:44 pmSorry you don’t like the facts, Tracy. if you get your knowledge of crime and the criminal justice system in America from Nancy Grace, Faux News, Court TV and MSNBC, and politicians, most of them crooks themselves, running for office, and wingnut groups out to frighten you for your money, I can’t help you. No one can.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:44 pmLet’s put it succinctly, I know three vets who were discharged on disability because of injury and their average age is 59. All of them require a cane or walker to get around. The Army is trying to reactivate them for service in Iraq (Driving trucks). Does this say anything?
January 29th, 2006 at 11:45 pmGregor gave a decent answer to my question although “I don’t know” is something that my 10 year old son says a lot.
Comment by Tracy — January 29, 2006 @ 11:43 pm
I didn’t engage you civily, only to have you imply I have the mind of a 10yo.
It would seem then -since you are omniscient, you can answer you own questions, instead of trying so hard to derail the thread.
Pray tell, oh wise and mature one: Why didn’t Gore win by a landslide? Why did Dukakis veto the bill while he was governor?
January 29th, 2006 at 11:47 pmAnd Im not talking about Clinton nor Republicans. Im talking about the Re-interpertation of Laws, passed by congress.
212
When Clinton bombed that asprin factory and killed civilians that doesn’t make him a war criminal?
Comment by Tracy — January 29, 2006 @ 11:44 pm
YAWN and Duhbya Killed 200,000 men and women Children.
ARE YOU GUYS EVEN YET???
January 29th, 2006 at 11:47 pmYour average murderer, if there is such a thing, and… there is, has more in common with Teddy Streleski than Willie Horton. Sorry, that’s just the way it is. There are many thousands of homicides committed every year in theis country, far too many, but only 65? active serial killers according to the FBI CASKU? And that again is symptomatic of something. More serial killers here in the US than anywhere else. Sick country.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:49 pmAnyway the Bush Admin cant even keep Gannon from COMING and going 200 Times, nor Stop AIPAC spys, and Abramoff Arms to Militant groups.
They cannot be trusted with overriding FISA
January 29th, 2006 at 11:50 pmCASKU
January 29th, 2006 at 11:50 pmChild and serial killer unit.
#219
“And yet he beat Dole by over 8 million votes.”
And yet the Democrats lost the house and Senate and still can’t seem to figure out why. Your “right punch” sure is weak.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:51 pmBush Admin Corruption negates Unitary Executive Powers.
January 29th, 2006 at 11:52 pmAnd yet the Democrats lost the house and Senate and still can’t seem to figure out why. Your “right punch†sure is weak.
Comment by Tracy — January 29, 2006 @ 11:51 pm
And While the Politicos rehash history for the umpteenth million time…………………………….
January 29th, 2006 at 11:53 pmPut it in a BooK will Ya?
January 29th, 2006 at 11:54 pmMr Ho,
January 29th, 2006 at 11:59 pmRepublicans and Fascists burn books.
#228
“The bill probably sucked. Most of them are full of pork.”
The bill was straight foward.
Why did Dukakis veto the bill in 1976?
Answer: he’s a slimeball
January 30th, 2006 at 12:00 amOne should never listen to those who rant opinions
January 30th, 2006 at 12:01 amits usually a sure sign of imbalance
#Mr Ho,
Republicans and Fascists burn books.
Comment by WaltTheMan — January 29, 2006 @ 11:59 pm
mr ho say then they burn Tracys book =)
January 30th, 2006 at 12:02 amCorrection:
Mr Ho,
Republicans and Fascists burn or cook the books.
Comment by WaltTheMan — January 29, 2006 @ 11:59 pm
January 30th, 2006 at 12:02 amWhy did Dukakis veto the bill in 1976?
Answer: he’s a slimeball
Comment by Tracy — January 30, 2006 @ 12:00 am
Mr ho say more slimes than balls in congress
January 30th, 2006 at 12:03 am#231
“I think if you pukes lose power, as we all fully expect you will,”
You losers thought that in 2004! LOL!
January 30th, 2006 at 12:04 amUmmm, Tracy has a wife? You mean, like you are a dude named Tracy. No wonder your so angry.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:04 ammr ho ask tracy who slime and who got balls?
January 30th, 2006 at 12:05 amand not by party.
Actually, we knew that election would be stolen also.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:05 amYeh, Hey Tracy
you should go with sumthin like Trey ‘C’
Hey C wats UP Dogg!
January 30th, 2006 at 12:06 amYa know.
mr ho is a ho tho
Gordon,
The BTK serial killer in Kansas was a republican partisan.
Criminals are very historically very tough on crime. Odd but true. “Tough on crime” is a wonderful political ploy. Everyone wants people to be tough on other people’s crime. Not their own. I had a conversation with someone in college years ago who told me he thought marijuana should illegal in one breath and then told me how he liked to ride his dirt bike on acid.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:06 amits just confusing TRACY, A guy isnt gonna answer the same if your a Woman, err that is many wont.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:08 amGet UP outta that OPRAH show C.
Lets talk about the WARS that Bush may start, because if he does, and Israel Starts Lobbing mini-nukes, the crap is gonna hit the Fan.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:13 am#268 – Tracy,
January 30th, 2006 at 12:15 amAnd what the hell does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Current estimates show that the GOP will achieve a net loss of 37 seats in the House and 4 in the Senate in 2006. In 2008, another 3 seats are up for grabs in the Senate.
Current estimates show that the GOP will achieve a net loss of 37 seats in the House and 4 in the Senate in 2006. In 2008, another 3 seats are up for grabs in the Senate.
Comment by WaltTheMan — January 30, 2006 @ 12:15 am
(Ouch…)
January 30th, 2006 at 12:19 amWhy did Dukakis veto the bill in 1976?
Answer: he’s a slimeball
Comment by Tracy — January 30, 2006 @ 12:00 am
So maybe now you can stop your trolling, drop the talk about Dukakis in 1976, to concentrate on George Bush 2006 and the illegal wiretapping he thinks is a “winner politically”.
You finaly have the answer you were looking for -even you had to give it to yourself.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:21 amWhy the fvck is Dukakis being discussed? I don’t remember Dukakis being president. Hmmmmmm. Nope, never happened. But, George W. Bush is president right now. You know, currently. As in presently.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:25 am#269 Spudge Tracy’s father thought about “SUE” but realised by giving “him” an ambiguous name good ole daddy would make embittered for life with out the obvious sympathy that SUE would have gotten HIM/HER?
January 30th, 2006 at 12:32 amI just can’t figure it out. Although I have never been banned from anything, I just don’t get why anybody would continue to visit and post at a site that they are claerly not welcome at.
I mean, wouldn’t you guys find a different site with people that have the same point of view? That is why it is called a community.
You don’t see people that like model trains going to the remote control car web sites and berating them.
I find it fascinating and disturbing all at the same time.
Even mighty aphrodite and I-RIGHT-I aren’t here all day everyday. I am sure they also post at sites that are aimed at their beliefs.
I have never visited at right wing site, other than to read an occasional post pointed out by C&L or something like that. But, I read the post and then go back to what I was doing. I don’t spend the next 8 hours on a website filled with people who don’t have the same beliefs as me and don’t want me there.
It’s just frickin crazy.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:42 amI would suggest that Judd (or some other God) provide us with a filter to ignore all of the troll trash. Let us built our own lists in the mire of cookies already on our machines. It would also be nice if we had a tool to remove NSA apps from our machines. I reinstall XP whenever my searches hang.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:43 amYou losers thought that in 2004! LOL!
Comment by Tracy
You losers thought you would own in 1964. It took you another 30 years. Like I said, it’s all been downhill since then. Sucks to see it slip through your fingers like that. When it comes to keeping the power once it’s gotten, you fools just don’t have what it takes. Never have, never will. Maybe they will come up with some political Viagra someday.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:43 amYou should tradeark that quick like.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:45 am#287 Isn’t that what Cheny-Rove give bubble-boy everyday
January 30th, 2006 at 12:49 amSpudgeBoy,
I share in your bafflement. I’ve never quite been able to figure out why in the world people like wwallace and his ilk would come here to be abused.
I also occasionally read some conservative blogs but never try to derail their threads. Like you said, it’s fascinating and disturbing at the same time.
One thing is to try to debate, and another entirely different is to come here to abuse/be abused. It takes a sadomasochist kind of personality, I guess…
January 30th, 2006 at 1:11 amThe bill was straight foward.
“Straightforward” is one word, you ridiculous twit. You have no idea what the Bill was, you’ve never even seen it.
You post drivel from some partisan idiot at some Young Republican link and have no idea what you are talking about, like most Americans, something that cynical politicians use to their advantage. And who could be more cynical than the pukes.
Here’s all the rest of you need to know about Horton and prisoner and release and re-entry. It was no big deal, but it was used to manipulate the ignorant voting public.
January 30th, 2006 at 1:47 amIn some inner-city communities, over 50% of all the young males will be incarcerated, negatively affecting the social fabric of the community. Dating relationships will have been altered, as there are simply not enough men out of prison to go around. The economics of the extended family system will have changed, since the usual bread winner is locked up, older women get the kids, and close relatives have to bear the considerable costs (mainly telephone calls and visits) of maintaining a relationship. Upon reentry, the prisoner is usually confronted with economic and family needs that border upon being quite extreme.
PROBLEMS ENCOUNTERED UPON RELEASE
mr ho has question? TRacy would enjoy prison with a name like that?
January 30th, 2006 at 2:00 amA letter of concern to Congress and the American people.
TO: WE THE PEOPLE
Both you and I are fully aware that what we are witnessing before our country, is possibly the largest power grab that American history will attest to. The volume of books are already into their second printing, and the future of Rove, Rumsfeld, and all of the like, will be dependent on their soon to be Doubleday@ contracts. History will be replete with the testimony of this power grab from the predictions of the perdition in the new American Democracy.
So lets examine their works. The volumes that which they will be speaking of. This power grab of the millennia.
The Art of Deception: A book that can be attributed to being the bible of the RNC.
I have an idea. Possibly so Machiavellian in nature, that the RNC won’t even see it coming, and they might possibly walk away thanking the us.
In the Art of Deception, one learns the power attributed to being capable of manipulating one’s opponents into doing your bidding. Evil indeed, yet almost necessarily so. A taste of their own medicine.
As a whole, the DNC may be fractured and the American public is being sold a bill of goods from the RNC; that Humpty Dumpty can never be but back together again. More fairy tales from the spin masters. So if Humpty Dumpty is broken, then Humpty Dumpty needs the Kings horses and men to do some healing.
TO: CONGRESS
The president all but has thumbed his nose at Congress as a whole. The Legislative Branch. He has stated, equivocally, that he turned down an invitation by Congress to allow them to assist him in crafting the necessary laws and amendments to the FISA laws back in 2002, and in 2003. And has reinforced his unyielding position to Congress’ Constitutionally mandated job description to be the sole craftsmanship of law for the land.
Rise up Congress. You’re president dismissed you. His words smack of his arrogance. Take back your jobs and legislate.
RNC, DNC, Green Party and Independent. One and all, your president’s nebulous words spoken to the US populace have left more scratching their heads than following in suit. There is something a foot and America’s chagrin needs to be comforted, not ignored and lulled into submission.
Stand up Congress, and take your jobs back. It was our Founders express mandate that there be three EQUAL branches. One not to be more than another.
Executive, Legislative, Judiciary. Three equal branches, that if left unchecked will lead to the corruptive downward spiral of the Democracy that our Founding Fathers created for us.
The president dismissed the necessity to go to the FISA court because of the antiquation of the laws, as he would have you to believe. But that begs the bigger question. Why not let Congress assist the president in the craftsmanship of new FISA laws that ARE inclusive of the 21st century technologies? The absurdity of the president’s response all but begs for a subpoena from the DOJ as his recusal toward any necessity of explanation to his concept and legality rests only in National Security.
Be heard Congress. The silence beset upon the Democratic party that which is parlayed in the media, is infesting the integrity of Democracy its self. RNC, DNC, Green Party and Independent alike. Your president has made clear, that he will resist any attempt at including Congress in the craftsmanship of necessary law to make what he is doing, legal in the eyes of the court.
Something is a foot. And it is trampling upon Congress’ Constitutional job description. It is riping at the integrity of American values. And Congress needs to address the elephant in the room. With pole numbers bottoming out for both the RNC and the DNC members of Congress and a midterm elections at the door step, how can Congress sit there and take this? The lack of voter confidence, and the summarily dismissal by the president, all but shows that Congress needs to rise up and take their jobs back.
Show the voters what integrity looks like. Three equal branches that follow Constitutional law and implore a sense of checks and balances.
Rise up. Stand up. Be heard.
Congress is needed as mandated by WE THE PEOPLE through our Bill of Rights.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:04 ammr ho say you like have salad tossed?
January 30th, 2006 at 2:05 ammr ho want to kno
mr ho ask mr tracy he ever prisoned?
January 30th, 2006 at 2:09 amOK, I give up.
Matthews is an idiot.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:11 amMaybe we should visit more of the sites the trolls link to…
From the same site link that Tracy links to:
NEW DVD!
The Beast of Revelation: IDENTIFIED!
Bwahahahahaa!
January 30th, 2006 at 2:13 amNEW VIDEO!
God’s Law and Society,
a joint production of Reel to Real Ministries and JC Rogers Productions, powerfully presents a comprehensive worldview based upon the ethical system found in the Law of God.
Sixteen Christian leaders and scholars answer some of the most common questions and misperceptions related to this volatile issue:
Are we under Law or under Grace?
How does the Old Testament Law apply today?
Can we legislate morality?
What about the separation of Church and State?
Was America founded as a Christian nation?
What would a Christian America look like?
God! Protect us from your followers!
January 30th, 2006 at 2:16 amFargo is on IFC. I haven’t seen it in years. When you realize that everyone in that film is a Republican (it’s based on fact) you can better understand the GOP. Like I said before. Sick country
January 30th, 2006 at 2:23 amOh, I know some in Washington would like me to stop talking about
it. I’m not going to. I believe the role of the President of the United States.
I believe my role in Washington is to confront problems now and pass them on to future Presidents and future Congresses. -George W. Bush 1-2006
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=2006_presidential_documents&docid=pd09ja06_txt-10
January 30th, 2006 at 2:36 ammr ho think if mr bush lbeast he probably would turn into one by now
January 30th, 2006 at 2:38 amThis is a thread about Chris Matthews and NSA. Why are you letting Tracy hijack the thread and start talking about Al Gore and Florida.
Better software isn’t going to solve the problem. You guys need to stop taking the bait from people who want to be disruptive.
January 30th, 2006 at 7:36 amHe sounds more and more like wallace the more he talks. It’s amazing how consistently irrational, hysterical and nonsensical the partisan rants become when a partisan talks. They bring up endless trails of misinformation, lies and debunked conspiracy theories. And it doesn’t matter if you debunk them again, because their brains don’t work properly – it’ll never make it in.
Comment by RightPunch — January 29, 2006 @ 10:52 pm
Hysteria is dead-on. Thanks, I will put that word into my arsinal fo future reference :).
I’m pretty convinced that they believe the propaganda is true just as much as they believe that the sky is blue and the grass is green. What we say to them, as reality-based and logical as it is, they think we’re trying to tell them that the sky is purple and the grass is brown. When what we’re really trying to say that the sky is only blue during midday, but can be other shades including a dark indigo at night fall before it goes black… and that when dormant, the grass becomes a beigey shade of brown… but they can not comprehend this, because dammit, the sky is blue and the grass is green because that’s what they learned and they never, never, ever question anything once it’s been carved into their pea-sized craniums…
January 30th, 2006 at 8:11 amI share in your bafflement. I’ve never quite been able to figure out why in the world people like wwallace and his ilk would come here to be abused.
I also occasionally read some conservative blogs but never try to derail their threads. Like you said, it’s fascinating and disturbing at the same time.
One thing is to try to debate, and another entirely different is to come here to abuse/be abused. It takes a sadomasochist kind of personality, I guess…
Comment by Gregor Samsa — January 30, 2006 @ 1:11 am
As someone who is around teenagers all day (and wallace is definitely a teenager), it’s purely to get the attention his parents aren’t giving him. Since he has a computer, and only posts in the evenings, I’m guess it’s rich parents who have busy careers and social lifes and never had any idea a child would be so difficult to raise. Maybe one is ill in some regard (cancer, alcoholism, etc.), or dead.
He gets attention here that he is not getting anywhere else.
And when they get this bad it is because negative attention is still better than no attention. And look at how many people respond to him. He wouldn’t get this much attention in a conservative blog because they’d all agree with him. Here, he is the anomoly, and well, it’s the thing that stand out most.
I deal with it everyday. Best thing to do, really, is to ignore him.
January 30th, 2006 at 8:26 am#303
January 30th, 2006 at 8:39 amYou sure sound bitter. It seems as though your hatred for the right grows everyday. I can see that you’re starting to lose all perspective as you consitantly mischaracterize, and misrepresent the right. You’re also taking on the same “I’m so smart and open minded, and the right is so stupid and closed minded” tone as most of the extremests here.
#306
January 30th, 2006 at 8:51 amIf you think Howard Dean is telling the truth, then your living in a fantasy world. It’s absurd to think that corruption is only on the right side of the aisle like he claims. The entire D.C. culture is one of corruption with only a few bright spots like George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Condoleeza Rice, Joe Lieberman …
Michael
Who are you voting for then? If the Dems and the Reps are both corrupt, as your argument puts it, you shouldn’t be voting for either of them.
January 30th, 2006 at 8:57 amOh, and PS this wiretapping thing? Republican scandal.
January 30th, 2006 at 8:59 am#308
January 30th, 2006 at 9:00 amI’m voting for Bush. He must be running again as the lefts focus is aimed at continually trying to smear him.
#309
January 30th, 2006 at 9:02 amThe Democrats are the ones who keep redefining it as domestic spying.
You sure sound bitter. It seems as though your hatred for the right grows everyday. I can see that you’re starting to lose all perspective as you consitantly mischaracterize, and misrepresent the right. You’re also taking on the same “I’m so smart and open minded, and the right is so stupid and closed minded†tone as most of the extremests here.
Comment by Michael — January 30, 2006 @ 8:39 am
So much for being civil?
Well, if you want to read my post with a bitter tone, instead of how they were actually intended, I can’t stop you. But I’m not going to get into a nasty battle with you. That’s not why I’m here. If you want to do that, try someone else.
Good luck.
January 30th, 2006 at 9:08 amSorry but folks like Hillary, Cindy Sheehan, and Kos are not going to take us over the finish line. And whining about Chris Matthews, a guy who worked for Tip O’Neil ain’t going to do it either.
Comment by Bill #40
Bile,
Stop pretending that you’re a Progressive, you’re an inbred Bushite in sheep’s clothing. Anyone with an ounce of sense (of smell especially) can smell you a mile away.
Chris Matthews is a Clinton-hating, right wing political shill for the criminal Bushite junta. Get used to the fact that until “we the people” take back our government and country from these racist, right wing, treasonous, corrupt, criminal, mass murdering, scumbag conservatives, people like you (who either try to straddle some imaginary fence, or preach republiscum lite values) might as well step on through to the devil’s (Bushiva’s) side…
Stop trying to convince us who we should support, who is fair and balanced and what “we” need to do to win or lose…
…you’re a fraud!
January 30th, 2006 at 9:13 am#312
I’m not looking for a battle–just pointing out the typical left wing arrogance.
You posted:
… but they can not comprehend this, because dammit, the sky is blue and the grass is green because that’s what they learned and they never, never, ever question anything once it’s been carved into their pea-sized craniums…
It sounds like you think you’re superior to those on the right. There can be no discussion when that is your premise.
January 30th, 2006 at 9:19 amIf you think Howard Dean is telling the truth, then your living in a fantasy world. It’s absurd to think that corruption is only on the right side of the aisle like he claims.
Comment by Michael #307
Miscreant,
There you go again LYING about what Howard Dean said! He didn’t say Dems were free from corruption, ONLY Abramoff’s stench of corruption. This is a Republiscum scandal that you mindless inbreds want to smear onto Democrats as well…
…You won remember? Get over it!
Your (and the right wing “far from balanced” media’s) use of Rovian political tactics: “Say something enough times and they will believe it,” ONLY works for inbreds who believe anything the criminal Bushite junta sh*ts out anyway…
As for your voting, just stay home…
…You aren’t intellectually sound enough to vote!
January 30th, 2006 at 9:20 amIt sounds like you think you’re superior to those on the right. There can be no discussion when that is your premise.
Comment by Michael — January 30, 2006 @ 9:19 am
This is where you guys wind up with strokes. Trying to control what other people think, feel, say and do. You can’t. And trying makes you come across as combative.
I’ve studied Psychology. I used to be a conservative. Based on that education and my personal experiences this is my opinion. Someone else not liking it won’t change it.
January 30th, 2006 at 9:28 amCondoleezza Rice a bright spot in DC? The same Condi Rice who said that the US didn’t foresee a significant Hamas election victory? The same Condi Rice who failed to notice the significance of a daily briefing titled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike US?”
Gak.
BTW, that WaPo question is so biased that I’d be surprised if they didn’t get those results.
January 30th, 2006 at 9:31 am#315
Reprobate,
I can’t believe that you actually think your comment of “saying something enough times and they will believe it” applies to the right–when the Democrats have repeated their Bush lied mantra until you all believed it. As for my voting–you’re right. I could stay home and it would make any difference–you’re still going to lose.
January 30th, 2006 at 9:37 am#316
January 30th, 2006 at 9:47 amI’m sure you studied English as well, Then you should know that words have meaning. So when you say things like pea-sized craniums, and how you feel you’ve been cured of leprosy by walking away from conservatism–the meaning is obvious. No one has a promblem with you having an opinion, you just don’t realize that you’re insulting and arrogant while expressing it.
All of the poll questions are misleading as they don’t mention that the FISA Law says it is illegal to wiretap without a warrant and the Fourth Ammendment likewise says that there must be a court order citing probable cause. I am quite confident that if the question was asked in a way to illustrate the law and the constitution, the American people would not support it.
As for Matthews, I deleted my TiVo copy of his Sunday show once he started making fun of the last democratic candidate for President who is finally standing against Alito. Matthews says outrageous things to get viewers. But he’s also losing other viewers, including this viewer….He’s on very thin ice with me and I’ve been a regular viewer of his Sunday and daily shows. Now I’m TiVoing them and fast-forwarding through the sections with Administration shills like Dan Bartlett. I will not even bother to TiVo if his idiotic and really quite treasonous (in the sense that a President disobeying the Constitution and the law is a “winner”)comments continue.
January 30th, 2006 at 9:56 amNo one has a promblem with you having an opinion, you just don’t realize that you’re insulting and arrogant while expressing it.
Comment by Michael — January 30, 2006 @ 9:47 am
Only by those who see it that way (perspective is arbitrary and personal) and let it matter to them what I think.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:10 am310
Then, frankly you deserve every single bad thing that happens to you due to corruption, and the destruction of your civil rights. If you will not stand for integrity we know precisely what kind of person you scumbag.
Oh, and next time you talk about Democrats or anybody else being crooked, read your own post you double standard weilding traitor to good conscience.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:10 amConservative men tend to see intelligent, educated and articulate women as arrogant. To them, women are supposed to be blindly accepting of anything they say, obedient and demure. And when they encounter us they try to guilt and insult us into submission. Fortunately, I refuse to fall for it.
Every demonstration of this beligerent capacity makes me want to express my gratitude to the progressives on this site – men and women who treat us with the respect given to peers of any gender, and without heirarchical domination or condescention. It’s why you have my appreciation and loyalty. Thank you.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:18 am#321
January 30th, 2006 at 10:19 amStop with the wishy washy liberal crap. You’re trying so hard to avoid any absolutes that you look like a flake. How do you interpret that?
Stop with the wishy washy liberal crap. You’re trying so hard to avoid any absolutes that you look like a flake. How do you interpret that?
Comment by Michael — January 30, 2006 @ 10:19 am
I don’t. Good-bye Michael. I wish you well.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:21 am#3 BJs are losers politcally. A little known fact about the chritian right are these pamphlets they give out that explain how hitler was mostly a good guy until he got in power and started gettin BJs from his girl friend.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:23 amUnbelievable; Read 310.
This is not a man. This is slime, the sort of sleazy traitor that belongs no where near the clean places inhabited by human kind. You saw his defence, “The Democrats did it to” like that actually is a defence.
If he had said any other political party I would have disagreed with him, but respected his argument more. Instead, look at him. The pathetic sycophant of criminal endeavor.
He who will willingly support corruption and bribery within his government… this is no man. He doesn’t even qualify as a boy, his ideals are twisted with the grim dark support of what he knows, he actually knows, is criminal.
Your country will not succeed so long as this kind of reptile stalks its ballot boxes and the good people, who actually deserve better, do not oppose him.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:24 am#237
“That’s an interesting question, perhaps you should also ask why the republican governor Francis Sargent passed the bill before Dukakis was governor?”
I think she was just as wrong as Dukakis for doing so, but from the rest of your post it sounds to me like you are also OK with that 60 day sentence for Mark Hulett…typical and wouldn’t suprised me.
“Dukakis believed people should be rehabilited, and not just shoved away.”
Well he is a moron just like those who thinks that REPEAT sex offenders can be rehabilitated. BTW what did Horton do when he escaped?
January 30th, 2006 at 10:24 am#323
You said:
Conservative men tend to see intelligent, educated and articulate women as arrogant. To them, women are supposed to be blindly accepting of anything they say, obedient and demure. And when they encounter us they try to guilt and insult us into submission. Fortunately, I refuse to fall for it.
I say:
January 30th, 2006 at 10:30 amOnly if you want to see it that way. Perspective is arbitrary and personel remember? Just for the record–I could care less if you’re submissive or unsubmissive–I’m not threatened by independent, intelligent women. I’m just having trouble understanding why a woman who claims to be educated and articulate, is willing to lower herself by being a cheerleader for the left.
#327
January 30th, 2006 at 10:33 amStop foaming at the mouth you liberal loser. When you move out of your parents house, get a job and start paying taxes, maybe then Conservatism will make sense to you.
Bruce,
I met Michael some time ago and at first he was civil. In fact, even pleasant and said that he thought we might be friends. Since then, he’s become viscious and well, you pointed it out – unreasonable. I have no room in my life for people like this. They value nothing but what they think and are frequent to call the kettle black. I won’t speak to him anymore. He’s not worth it.
But thanks for your thoughts. You validate my prior statement about progressives :).
January 30th, 2006 at 10:39 amMichael
Stop projecting.
Also, how can you claim any moral superiority, when you blatently support nothing less the total immorality?
You support corruption. You support lawlessness, and you support hypocrisy. Not by my words are you convicted, but by your own.
You are worse then a loser, you are the loser who must drag everything good, decent and true down into the ditch you dug for yourself.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:42 am#331
I don’t recall meeting you… I think you might have me confused with another Michael.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:46 am#332
January 30th, 2006 at 10:57 amStart thinking for yourself Bruce. Liberalism is just a clever disguise for humanism and atheism. Every argument and every line of thought you guys have is flawed. You try really hard to fake linear thought, but you end up jumping all over the map with conspiracy theories and all sorts of nonsense. Arrogance, insults, lies, misrepresentations, name-calling, and self-adoration are the trademarks of your movement. I’m just giving a little of it back, and you’re ready to have a nervous breakdown.
#332 By reading Michael’s posts it is obvious he is another right-wing fundamental christian, thus his posts have to be understood by the lens he views the world and all the people in it. BTW …. Michael your posts seem to reveal you could use some stress management, but you’ll rant back, so fire away. ( Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth) kinda leaves you out with your rants here
January 30th, 2006 at 11:08 amMatthews didn’t call it a political winner. He asked how it is being turned into one by the president. There is a distinction. That said, it’s obvious Matthews focuses on the political fray, sacrificing topics like legality and ethics. He should call his program “Sleazeball”.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:09 amEver see that movie Clock work orange? People like Michael just need to be sat down with their eyes wide open and forced to learn what people like George Washington, Ben Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson personally wrote about America and their dreams for America, and why America was different than any other country before. Why would people on the right want to be the new British Empire? I thought they were anti-Europe. If they loved America they would take the time to sit down with a book of Ben Franklins writings and learn what makes this country a Liberal Democratic country and why Lincoln fought the civil war.
The right doesnt even know what they are supporting or why the neocons are anti-Republican.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:41 am#335
January 30th, 2006 at 11:43 amInteresting that you should take a swipe at Michael while ignoring the vast amount of comments from your co-participants. He represents the right so he’s fair game, and you give a free pass to your buddies. The Bible also says “Judge not lest you be judged” but I’m sure your kind really doesn’t care, or believe in the Bible. You just care to know enough of what it says so you can throw it in a conservatives face when you get the chance.
Michael is NOT a christian. If he says he is then he is really an adulterous treasonous liar. He worships false idols that have the face of Jesus painted on them. Jesus was the most liberal person in all of history which is why his ideals are in the Constitution. ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:43 amConservative men tend to see intelligent, educated and articulate women as arrogant. To them, women are supposed to be blindly accepting of anything they say, obedient and demure.
C’mon … this is a tad over-generalized. I’m conservative and am much more attracted to women who are educated, intelligent and articulate … my wife is a glaring example. She’s the smartest woman I know … that’s one reason I was attracted to her. She’d throw any BS I sent her way right back in my face … kept me in check when I needed it. Some women I dated were just too blah and “I wanna do what you wanna do”-ish … bleakth. My two cents.
I think that while we certainly don’t know yet how Congress will rule about Bush spying activities (I’m sure most individuals have made up their mind) anytime that an issue that is historically a “Republican” issue (in the eyes of the public) is in the news (in this case, national defense), it benefits the Republicans. If Bush was charged with a crime, that would obviously change … but in this interim time prior to a Congressional hearing, the topic itself plays toward the Republicans. That’s why I said that Democrats do themselves a disservice by keeping this in the for-front … there are PLENTY of issues that have been historically Democrat (ie. environment). Any talk of those issues adds feathers to the proverbial Democrat cap.
Please note that this phenomenon doesn’t really have to do with the reality of the topic … it only speaks to what public perception is. Republicans have historically been credited with being strong on national defense and Democrats have historically been credited with being strong on the environment or social issues. Republicans can spend 100 trillion dollars on social issues and they would likely never lead in the perception of the public on this issue … perception is reality. Democrats face a similar uphill, IMHO, on national defense. The long and short of it is, unless there’s a conviction or a criminal charge on this spying thing, Matthews makes a valid point about the Administration having “a winner” here.
As an aside, if RightPunch is around … does your moniker refer to Punch like a boxing punch or Punch like one would drink at a birthday party? Either way, and in the interest of being “partisan” free, perhaps a name that didn’t associate with a political leaning but indicated an adherance with the truth would be more indicative of your “independence” from the “partisan brain”. Just a thought, pumpkin … :-). I have to say, however, that the “nice” way you engage your critics or post contra-arguments is refreshing … whether it’s calculated or not.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:48 am#241
You are the one who doesn’t care about the victims of Horton…clearly. Get a family of your own and you might just care about the victims.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:51 am#341 I grew up in a right wing Indiana family. I dont think most people that didnt grow up in the right wing world understands there is a difference between southern conservatives and northern conservatives. Remember it was the northern christians that were helping the blacks run away from the southern christians. It was the northern christians screaming about the sins of the south. It was the northern christians that egged on war with the south. Christians from the south may team up with the south now for political power, but their societies are different.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:53 am# 342 was directed to #340 …damn fingers… and the last sentence should have said the north teams up with the south… damn fingers again.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:56 amChristians from the south may team up with the south now for political power, but their societies are different.
I agree with you … VERY different. I grew up in NY (lived there until I was 24), but now live in NC … the south is actually very different depending on where one is in the south. I live on the coast … I run into 2 fellow NYers for every 3 southerners … tons of transplants. (When one can sell a 1500 sq. ft. home in NY and buy a 4000 sq. ft. home near the water in NC for the same price, this is bound to happen).
January 30th, 2006 at 12:02 pmI don’t recall meeting you… I think you might have me confused with another Michael.
Comment by Michael — January 30, 2006 @ 10:46 am
You schould meet him, he’s a nice guy. Glad to know he still is.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:02 pm#249
“I don’t know, did he torture, kidnap and use chemical weapons like Bush has? If he did, then sure thing.”
Why don’t you know?
January 30th, 2006 at 12:04 pmC’mon … this is a tad over-generalized. I’m conservative and am much more attracted to women who are educated, intelligent and articulate … my wife is a glaring example. She’s the smartest woman I know … that’s one reason I was attracted to her. She’d throw any BS I sent her way right back in my face … kept me in check when I needed it. Some women I dated were just too blah and “I wanna do what you wanna doâ€-ish … bleakth. My two cents.
You’re not a traditional, hardcore conservative Giacomo, through you subscribe to many conservative ideals. You are a conservative moderate on the verge of becoming a liberal moderate if you’d just take that leap of faith in yourself.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:07 pmI can’t believe that you actually think your comment of “saying something enough times and they will believe it†applies to the right–when the Democrats have repeated their Bush lied mantra until you all believed it.
Comment by Michael #318
Why wasn’t it a landslide for Gore in 2000? I mean after the awsome 1990s it should have been an easy win.
Comment by Tracy #141
Trashy,
Al Gore DID win in 2000, as did Kerry in ‘04
Miscreant,
If you haven’t heard about how your Party’s leadership and tacticians use “creating reality” to keep you in the dark…
…well, then it stands to reason that you’d be “in the dark”…
Ladies and Gentlemen (Progressives All)…
I give you right wing inbred Bushites Miscreant and Trashy:
…Delusional and lovin’ it!
January 30th, 2006 at 12:09 pmGerald,
I grew up in the South with a Northern conservative Catholic family… fun huh?
January 30th, 2006 at 12:14 pmhttp://medianeedle.blogspot.com/2006/01/sunday-roundup.html
Matthews just loves the way Bush leans into that lectern.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:18 pmMichael ,
When someone lies and they are called on it then everyone should hear about it over and over. That is what Jesus did to the jewish conservatives.
When someone lies and the lies are retold as truth then that is the basis for the destruction of truth which undermines all that is good. This is what was done to Jesus in the jewish Talmud. Lie after lie was told that even today is told in Israel about how jesus was an evil magic user that tricked jews into turning their backs on god.
Every person needs to read as much as they can about all relgions, all societies, all politics. THEN you can see the truth without being told.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:19 pmThe Bible also says “Judge not lest you be judged†but I’m sure your kind really doesn’t care, or believe in the Bible.
Comment by Antagonist — January 30, 2006 @ 11:43 am
Nope. I’m an Atheist. And this is a liberal website, where a neocon came to antagonize and bash us. And then when we stand up for ourselves and one another, you try to do the same. You’re in the wrong place. Try Redstate.org
January 30th, 2006 at 12:19 pmit only speaks to what public perception is. Republicans have historically been credited with being strong on national defense and Democrats have historically been credited with being strong on the environment or social issues.
Giacomo, your perception comments reminded me of this joke.
Are you a Democrat, Republican or Southern Republican?
Here is a little test that will help you decide.
The answer can be found by posing the following question:
You’re walking down a deserted street with your wife and three small children. Suddenly, an Islamic Terrorist with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, praises Allah, raises the knife, and charges at you. You are carrying a Glock cal .40, and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he
reaches you and your family. What do you do?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Democrats Answer:
Well, that’s not enough information to answer the question! Does the man look poor! Or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack? Could we run away? What does my wife think? What about the kids? Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand? What does the law say about
this situation? Does the Glock have appropriate safety built into it? Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children? Is it possible he’d be happy with just killing me? Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he
be content just to wound me? If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me? Should I call 9-1-1? Why is this street so deserted? We need to raise taxes, have a paint and weed day and make this a happier and healthier street that would discourage such behavior. This is all so confusing! I need to
debate this with some friends for few days and try to come to a consensus.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Republican’s Answer ;
BANG!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Southern Republican’s Answer:
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
click…..(sounds of reloading).
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click
Daughter #1: “Nice grouping, Daddy!
Daughter #2: Were those the Winchester Silver Tips or Hollow Points?
Son: Git-r-Dun Pop! Can I shoot the next one!
Wife: You ain’t taking that to the Taxidermist ARE YOU!
January 30th, 2006 at 12:19 pmNo antagonist just pointing out what is glaringly apparent but not stated. And the judge not lest ye be judged could be apply applied to most wingnuts that post here, their posts are full of judgements on liberal philosophy and intent plus a “little” less than christian diatribe(name calling), so please ask them to reread the sermon on the mount, and then as good Christians please apply .
January 30th, 2006 at 12:20 pmThat’s why I said that Democrats do themselves a disservice by keeping this in the for-front … there are PLENTY of issues that have been historically Democrat (ie. environment). Any talk of those issues adds feathers to the proverbial Democrat cap.
Comment by Giacomo #340
jaggoffmore,
Here you inbreds go again, telling us Progressives which issues are “winners and losers” for us politically…
…”creating reality”…
…”framing the debate”…
…the environment IS important, but down there in incestuous, redneck, NC (as throughout the south and midwest) people could care less about “the environment”…
They’re so wrapped up in wanting Bushiva to be god that they don’t even care about their livelihoods being shipped overseas…
As for the perception of Republiscum being seen as more effective at national defense/security, the cumulative effects of:
Iraq (L’il Dick and Halliburton)
9/11… “Bushiva’s failure to protect and defend because he was on holiday”
Katrina, “heckuva job Brownie”…”Bushiva’s failure to respond bec he was on holiday”…
…the borders and ports, still WIDE OPEN
N. Korea, Iran, Hamas and Palestine, Syria and South America…a potpourri of foreign policy disasters!
…are all conspiring to turn that perception to the Dems side of the ledger…
Thanks for the concern but we’ll follow our own instincts…
Now you can go on back to doing what you obviously do best…
…giving yourself a hand…
January 30th, 2006 at 12:28 pmWife: You ain’t taking that to the Taxidermist ARE YOU!
Comment by Ben #353
Bent,
…you forgot to put the punchline in:
Dad: Hell no honey, we’re gonna skin it and eat it!
January 30th, 2006 at 12:33 pmOh, and PS this wiretapping thing? Republican scandal.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — January 30, 2006 @ 8:59 am
I disagree, and if you frame it that way, it doesn’t help Americans. It’s an executive branch scandal and Republicans and Democrats alike have a vested interest in fighting it. True, the current resident of the White House is a Republican, but enough Republican members of congress are none to pleased about it. They know a Democrat will be in the WH again soon and… you get the idea.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:47 pm#250
“I didn’t engage you civily, only to have you imply I have the mind of a 10yo.”
I didn’t mean to imply that you have the mind of a ten year old just the that answer is so obvious that I found it rather odd that you would say “I don’t know”.
Gore was too far to the left and too stuck up and snobbish for the average American. Same thing with Kerry. Dukakais on the other hand didn’t care about the victims of Horton.
January 30th, 2006 at 1:03 pm#339
You said–
Michael is NOT a christian.
How would you know?
you said–
If he says he is then he is really an adulterous treasonous liar.
Do you Know that he has committed adultry and treason? You also called him a liar. I’ve scanned over his comments and didn’t see any lies–just opinions.
you said–
He worships false idols that have the face of Jesus painted on them.
Again how would you know this?
you said–
Jesus was the most liberal person in all of history which is why his ideals are in the Constitution. ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.
What would you think His position would be on bearing false witness against your neighbor? How about abortion or homosexuality?
January 30th, 2006 at 1:12 pm#261
“Sweetie, Punch refers to an alternative to the Koolaid you are sustained by – not a violent response.”
That’s even better! Very weak!
“Because there were a couple of democrats who were corrupt -the democrats did what was right and removed them, instead of lying about it the way the Abramoff scandal has been handled”
So that’s your lame defense of why your party lost in 2004? LOL! It’s more like the American people were tired of the status quo and the liberal BS and lies.
“Because there were a couple of democrats who were corrupt”
Democrats corrupt! No, you don’t say!
“the democrats did what was right and removed them,”
Is Delay majority leader today? Don’t make me laugh at your party’s self proclaimed self rightousness.
“The one thing partisans always do is smear”
As a partisan you are the professional at it.
“…just like the fact that it was a Republican governor that created the Horton law.”
You don’t blame Dukakis for vetoing that bill that would have saved some of Horton’s victims?
January 30th, 2006 at 1:20 pm#262
Are you at all self aware? You do know that you are one of the the most partisan posters in this blog…aren’t you?
January 30th, 2006 at 1:23 pm#270
“Ummm, Tracy has a wife? You mean, like you are a dude named Tracy. No wonder your so angry.”
Better that calling my self Spunge_BOY term for not yet a man.
January 30th, 2006 at 1:26 pm#277
Please cite you current estimates source.
BTW what did your source say about the congressional races in 2004?
January 30th, 2006 at 1:29 pmAnd now Johnny Cash will give his rendition of a boy named tracy
January 30th, 2006 at 1:31 pmJesus was very clear that his #1 intention was for people to treat each other as equals. All else is taken care of automatically if everyone does this.
You can not have slavery if you follow Jesus.
You can not have rich looking down on the poor if you follow Jesus.
You can not have new cons taking away your liberty while claiming they are protecting you if you follow Jesus.
You can not have military contractors pushing wars if you follow Jesus.
You can not call Islam “evil” if you follow Jesus.
You can not gamble social security on the stock market if you follow Jesus.
You can not wage wars of aggression if you follow Jesus.
You can not be a constant liar if you follow Jesus.
You can not fight against the liberal ideals of team work by calling it communism if you follow Jesus.
You can not violate someones privacy by passing abortion laws if you follow Jesus.
You can not violate someones privacy by passing “gay” laws if you follow Jesus.
==========================================================
Michael wants to FORCE his ideas on other people …that is NOT what Jesus did. His sword was his words. When the jewish priests gave him a choice 1) Take back your words or 2) Die on the cross
Jesus choose the cross. He was not going to let some conservatives force him to take away the truth he had planted in the hearts and the minds of the people…
ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.
Anyone that declares themselves the “moral majority” are liars against Jesus. Those that declare they are the “supreme white race” are liars against Jesus. All those that declare “Christianity is godliness and Islam is moon devil worship” are liars against Jesus.
If you can not convince a woman not to have an abortion THEN MIND YOU OWN GOD DAMN BUSINESS. You need to go sit down and read the words of Jesus some more so you are better at finding a solution. You DONT go passing laws to FORCE yourself onto others.
Jesus NEVER said go out unto the world with a sword and give everyone a choice to believe in Jesus or die or go to jail.
Michaels thinking shows which side of the line of truth he stands on.
January 30th, 2006 at 1:33 pm#285
Reading a couple of articles from an opposing viewpoint’s website(s) isn’t going to teach you anything. If you are confident in your beliefs you should have no trouble in debating with the opposition. How are you going to defend yourself in a debate if you don’t practice?
January 30th, 2006 at 1:36 pmSo what’s the BFEE got on Chris? Pics?
Or is there some off-shore bank account piling up money for Chris’s retirement?
January 30th, 2006 at 1:37 pmBack on thread – It must be very disheartening to progs that the majority of people, once they have a chance to digest the knee jerk reaction of those who hate everything Bush, actually want to keep an ear on those who kill any or all of us if they could. OK… you can go back to discussing unbelievable’s “issues” of being a brilliant woman…..Zzzzzz……zzzzzz……
January 30th, 2006 at 1:56 pm#290
“One thing is to try to debate, and another entirely different is to come here to abuse/be abused.”
Abused by you guys? LOL!
#130 was as simple question andeveryone apparently was bored with this thread because so many trolls had to put their two cents in.
January 30th, 2006 at 1:56 pm#368 All democrats want to listen to terrorists with the NSA also. You are a LIAR. You try to use a logical fallacy to give people only 2 choices… Spy on terrorists or help terrorists. Those are not the choices. The choices are…
1) Spy on terrorists and let the president be an emporer.
2) Spy on terrorists and make the president keep himself in check by reporting to FISA.
3) Dont spy on anyone because …you are stupid.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:00 pmCould Chris Matthews be more pathetic? I wonder how the ratings for “Hardball” are? So much for the Great Misinformer.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:05 pmRightpunch, But the meanest thing he ever did was right before he went and hid he named me …….. Tracy
January 30th, 2006 at 2:10 pm#291
“You have no idea what the Bill was, you’ve never even seen it.”
The bill made inmates convicted of first-degree murder ineligible for furloughs. Simple.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:18 pm#302
“This is a thread about Chris Matthews and NSA. Why are you letting Tracy hijack the thread and start talking about Al Gore and Florida.”
I asked a simple question and everyone came unglued that I would ask such a question. Again, I think everyone was just bored with the thread and I really didn’t expect so many responses…and didn’t want them either.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:42 pm#348
Gore was president and Kerry is president? Gore just let Kerry take over after four years? LOL!
January 30th, 2006 at 2:54 pmGore won the peoples vote. Look it up. Also after the elections were long over ALL the florida votes were counted…not just in select counties… Gore won. But Gore didnt ask for all votes to be counted and let the cards fall where they may… that is what is wrong with the democrats ..they are not trusting democracy. Stop playing the republicans game.
January 30th, 2006 at 3:06 pmjust in. pubic hairs and bag prints have been found on chris matthews chin and around his lying lips.
January 30th, 2006 at 3:09 pmThe absolute morons who all find this exceptable are the igorant, blind, uneducated repugs. I say everyone, of these moron repugs. who feel this is acceptable, should give up all their civil liberties and let this criminal administration have all access to their private conversations immediately. I can’t believe just how stupid these repugs. are to just accept this breaking the law from Dumbya and his sidekicks.
January 30th, 2006 at 3:23 pm#377
“I thought you were talking about sex offenders, this says murderers – how would that have helped?”
You thought wrong. Go back are read it again.
January 30th, 2006 at 3:33 pm#381
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12623-2001Nov11.html
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/florida.ballots/stories/main.html
January 30th, 2006 at 3:42 pmI wonder how the ratings for “Hardball†are? So much for the Great Misinformer.
Comment by Jodi #373
Jodi,
Let’s all (Progressives) do ourselves a HUGE favor…
…and not give it or him a second thought!
January 30th, 2006 at 3:45 pmChris Matthews is a rent boy for the Chimpy regime.
Anybody who supports the Chimp-in-Chief is an idiot.
January 30th, 2006 at 3:57 pmIs it just me, or is there something wrong with the questions asked in those surveys? If I was asked – “As you may know, the Bush Administration has been wiretapping telephone conversations between U.S. citizens living in the United States and suspected terrorists living in other countries without getting a court order allowing it to do so. Do you think the Bush Administration was right or wrong in wiretapping these conversations without obtaining a court order the first three days?â€, I’d for sure answer yes. If you substitute, against the law of the constitution instead of the first three days, I’d say no.
January 30th, 2006 at 3:58 pm#370 – #368 All democrats want to listen to terrorists with the NSA also. You are a LIAR.” – Gerald
January 30th, 2006 at 4:04 pm*****Dear Gerald – If I show you 100 Demorats who don’t want to listen to terrorists, does that make you a LIAR?? Stay away from such grand sweeping pronouncements – your boots aren’t high enough.
#380 – “….Also after the elections were long over ALL the florida votes were counted…not just in select counties… Gore won. But Gore didnt ask for all votes to be counted and let the cards fall where they may…” – Gerald
Gerald – What are they putting in your bourbon?? Your entire tatement is replete with errors – (Gore wanted certain, cherry picked counties re-counted – not the whole state. When independently re-counted by center to left news organizations, Florida voted for Bush) – I apologize for confusing you with the facts..
January 30th, 2006 at 4:11 pm#384
This first link is your first link… If I were you I would read the articles before linking them… just reading the title isnt good enough )…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12623-2001Nov11.html
The article above says that if the 4 counties Gore selected had been recounted Bush won. BUT if a state wide recount was done Gore won.
And now I link your second link because it shows the same thing.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/florida.ballots/stories/main.html
The first paragraph SAYS bush would have won. THEN they go down the list and show in all the ways that Gore won. They dont show a single way bush won…they just SAID he won… that is some crazy ass kissing with the truth all on one page. And in America…pathetic.
And here are some people that dont kiss any butt, however they do talk about why Gore won…
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/sep2001/nyt-s25.shtml
http://archive.democrats.com/view.cfm?id=5111
January 30th, 2006 at 4:43 pm#388 Yes I take you up on that you nut job. Those democrats LIVE in the USA ..and they dont want to be bombed. You think we are living in crazy land? I sometimes do to, but we are not. Are there peaceniks that reject the military and the CIA altogether? yes. Do some of them call themselves democrats? yep some. Though most dont like the democrats either. As far as actual democrats (remember the guys that lead us through WWII) they like all the kick ass NSA gizmos that can scan all the conversations of the communists or the terrorists or the whatever bad guys. That isnt a republican trait. The difference is democrats dont trust republicans to correctly judge who is an enemy …remember the inquisitions? witch hunts? protestants burning catholics…catholics burning protestants? McCarthies red scare? And lets not forget who setup the too powerful federal system that totally striped the power of the states and never gave it back.
January 30th, 2006 at 4:50 pmEven more execrable than the rosy-picture-scenario quote Matthews feels compelled to regurgitate regardless of reality is the photo of him pointing – stop it already, learn your guests’ names! – at whomever, exhibiting that self-approving trademark smile. Translation: I’m absolutely fixed in my position. My position is merely a reflection of my self-image.
Thanks for the update. I stopped watching his Sunday insider jabfest when I fired Hardball from my viewing repetoire upon the occasion of the “whackjob lefty” remark. Nice to know I made the wise decision.
January 30th, 2006 at 4:53 pm#388 Aphrodite, c’mon, you know that we’re outraged at the warrentless and sweeping aspect of the wiretapping, not about whether or not to wiretap terrorists AT ALL. When one manages to sweep up those darn Quaker “terrorists” or anti-Bush-protester “terrorists”, that’s a different story. I honestly don’t think that you could find 100 Democrats who are totally against legal wiretapping of real terrorists.
January 30th, 2006 at 4:53 pm#389 Reread what I said. I said that “Gore didnt ask for all votes to be counted”
That means that Gore cherry picked. When he should have demanded a statewide recount. That was me being critical of Gore for not demanding all votes be counted and let the cards fall where they may.
Gore won. Bush is illegit.
January 30th, 2006 at 4:55 pmGore won. Bush is illegit.
Tell me how the “Gore won” mantra is any different than Republicans bringing up Bill Clinton’s bad behaviors whenever it suits … it sounds like sour grapes either way … build a bridge.
January 30th, 2006 at 5:20 pmTell me how the “Gore won†mantra is any different than Republicans bringing up Bill Clinton’s bad behaviors whenever it suits … it sounds like sour grapes either way … build a bridge.
Comment by Giacomo — January 30, 2006 @ 5:20 pm
Apple: The votes were recounted – more than once – including a recount by BBC. And Gore won. Period.
Orange: Bill Clinton’s affair.
You can’t compare them… not even remotely the same thing.
Capisce?
January 30th, 2006 at 5:37 pmbuild a bridge.
Comment by Giacomo #395
jaggoffmore,
Where to, Alaska?
Those of you sh*thead inbreds who don’t see that this country is being:
bankrupted (in Iraq and Afghanistan)
divided (racially and economically)
dismantled (the constitution is being shredded)
set up (for takeover by foreign enemies China and Russia)
…deserve to be attacked…
…not embraced or compromised with…
period!
January 30th, 2006 at 5:59 pm[...] This article tells the story that about 50% of americans are supporting being wiretapped in order to fight terrorism (also see here). Well, should we wonder? Yes at once, but if we remember that germans voted for Hitler, palestinians chose Hamas and russians embraced the bloody revolution, we should painfully accept that in public opinion war is often taking hand over peace, hate over love, fight over discussion. Even so-called “spiritual” people are often full of hate to anyone not belonging to their church. [...]
January 30th, 2006 at 6:19 pmTrackback to your post:
http://theroxylandr.wordpress.com/2006/01/30/the_herd/
This article tells the story that about 50% of americans are supporting being wiretapped in order to fight terrorism (also see here). Well, should we wonder? Yes at once, but if we remember that germans voted for Hitler, palestinians chose Hamas and russians embraced the bloody revolution, we should painfully accept that in public opinion war is often taking hand over peace, hate over love, fight over discussion. Even so-called “spiritual†people are often full of hate to anyone not belonging to their church.
Do I mean that the human is weak and angry by his nature? Not necessary so. But it seems that the human nature has the natural desire to follow the strong rather than the right. It was probably the way of survival looking millions years back. If the new chief killed the old one from behind, was it smart to keep faith to the fallen leader or to join the new one? That’s what our fathers always did, they followed the strong rather than the good.
So how to stick to our principles? The only way is to make those principles to look as the strength, not the weakness. The liberty and the democracy must be the strong words, and they should mean what they mean. And we need the new leader who makes those words to means what they mean. When Bush say liberty, he means slavery, when he say democracy he means the rule of republicans. This man is killing America. We must get rid of him – the sooner the better.
January 30th, 2006 at 6:21 pmMan, Chris Matthews must be wearing the most comfortable set of kneepads in the world to maintain such an advanced degree of fellatio for this length of time.
Simply astonishing
January 30th, 2006 at 7:34 pm“Gerald – What are they putting in your bourbon?? Your entire tatement is replete with errors – (Gore wanted certain, cherry picked counties re-counted – not the whole state. When independently re-counted by center to left news organizations, Florida voted for Bush) – I apologize for confusing you with the facts..
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 30, 2006 @ 4:11 pm”
Oh sweetie, that’s a lie. The full recount showed Gore won handily in florida. But the partisan brain prevents partisans such as yourself from processing any new information that’s harmful to their candidate of choice. It’s easy to see why you’re ignorant of the truth, and lie with such gusto. Poor thing, and you sounded so rational the other day, only to sound like another silly irrational partisan again today. Whatever meds you were on the other day, go back on them, you were much more rational sweetie ;)
“Tell me how the “Gore won†mantra is any different than Republicans bringing up Bill Clinton’s bad behaviors whenever it suits … it sounds like sour grapes either way … build a bridge.
Comment by Giacomo — January 30, 2006 @ 5:20 pm”
I agree Giacomo, but I suggest you review the fact that it was a republican troll who brought up this ridiculous thread and the lies and misrepresentations around it. It’s the republican partisans who suffer from the ADD pumpkin – but since you’re acting as a partisan today, you wouldn’t notice this very relevant fact.
I forgive you for accusing others of your sin. Clearly you aren’t in a non-partisan brain space today.
January 30th, 2006 at 7:38 pmChrist! These are not “people suspected of involvement with terrorism!” That’s 100% administration spin.
WaPo says potentially millions of people are in this spied-on group (who in even the fantasyland administration would claim there are flipping millions of terrorist suspects in the county), and zero warrant-worthy suspects were developed. The criminal administration is using the word “terrorism” hoping to make this breathtakingly criminal endeavor “go away” in the public mind.
The only thing we know about people who were being wiretapped (and, presumably, still are) is that they’re Americans, entitled to constitutional protection. We don’t know if the spied-upon list includes political opponents, activists, office holders, medical professionals, or anyone else. Bloggers? You?
Oh, we know that other thing, that the program is 100%, explicitly unconstitutional. As soon as we let that fact drop out of the conversation and the polling, the criminal administration wins.
January 30th, 2006 at 9:28 pmgiacomo, Your right-it does not matter. The thread is “wire tapping”. I for one is completely for doing everything “within our constitution” to stop an atttack on the USA. The issue is without a warrant. This issue has been beaten to death on this and other blogs. Why can’t you see or comprehend that this current administration could do that within the law.
Those of us that are protesting want the bad guys caught but, not by upsurping “our” civil rights. You know the old slippery slope thing. First it is non -white christian folks–then You and Me. This is what happened in Germany. The lose of civil rights–a bit at a time. They never knew what happened.
Hitler used fear of people different than most Germans to obtain absolute power. They then lost everything. This administration is doing the same thing. Fear of emigration, gays, Muslims, God knows “Liberals” and of course “Blacks” which you will not admit. Then lots of flag waving and arm bands (American flag lapel pins). Just watch Fox (which I am sure you Do) no insult meant.
Now, I think you are a decent guy and do want to have a civil dialoge, so start one. I did once defend you to Ryan n.e.a.t but, you did frustrate me once and I did jump on you which I am really sorry for.
Those of us that are independent have a real hard time with “knee jerk political partisins”. It is the non thinking stuff that drives us CRAZY. If all polls show Bush with less than 44% support how can some one say that Americans support him? If that was Clinton You all would point that out with pride..since it is Bush “We don’t believe in polls” Right?
Excuse typos and grammar, will learn to create in Word then copy and paste.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:01 pmGood job cherry-picking the CBS poll, losers. Here’s the most specific question from the CBS poll:
“In order to reduce the threat of terrorism, would you be willing or not willing to allow government agencies to monitor the telephone calls and e-mails of Americans that the government is suspicious of?”
1/20-25/06
Willing 68
Not Willing 29
Unsure 3
And another question:
“After 9/11, President Bush authorized government wiretaps on some phone calls in the U.S. without getting court warrants, saying this was necessary in order to reduce the threat of terrorism. Do you approve or disapprove of the President doing this?”
Approve 53
Disapprove 46
Darn, Chris Matthews was completely right, and ThinkProgress totally screwed the pooch. Now there’s something you don’t see everyday. Just every other day.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:14 pmJudd said, “Today on the Chris Matthews show, Matthews asserted…”
Matthews said, “How is the president turning the NSA surveillance question into a winner politically?”
That’s a question, not an assertion, you illiterate Jugghead.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:35 pmohh great mother aphro is back. she recently won the ‘brownshirt mother of the year’ award from the “gestapo only party” [otherwise known as the 'GOP']. don’t even pay her attention, unless it’s to throw a troll grenade.
the whole gore thing is bizarre and is the grand irony of this whole political quagmire nowadays… gore’s incredible and oh-so-successful campaign managers advised him to distance himself from clinton, who, despite what some people want to believe, was as popular as ever in 2000. if gore doesn’t distance himself from clinton, he gets that landslide.
clinton, of course, gave rise to the whole right wing noise machine…debate it all you want, but clinton’s mere existence fed that spying-in-our-bedrooms, rubbernecking, holier-than-thou beast of a movement throughout the 90’s until it had grown from a core group of fringe whackjobs into a larger group led by the whackjobs but supported by the easily-duped, fear-controlled, talking-point-manipulated and unfortunate by-products of less-than-stellar american education — many of whom we see often as trolls here and other places. and clinton had the extreme bad judgement to have an extramarital affair, to which the whackjobs and all of their followers finally, after years of muck-raking and slandering, had something to point to and say: “SEE WE TOLD YOU SO!”
even though it was so insignificant the rest of the civilized world basically said, “and the big deal is what, exactly?”
so getting back to gore, he did also have a small, but vital, percentage of his vote siphoned off by the (pardon me for saying this but it’s true) grandstanding ralph nader. and perhaps his biggest shame was to have not campaigned enough in his own home state of tennessee, which, if he had won, would’ve relegated florida to a mere election footnote of 2000.
and as has been mentioned here already, the irony also is that the bush team wanted the entire state recounted but the gore team wanted only select counties… the result of each of these methods actually produces the other guy as the winner: select county recounts showed bush won, but a recount of the entire state (made too late to be certified) showed gore winning.
moral – if it’s close, demand the entire recount from day one. had the gore team done this, gore would be president.
and the “gore won” mantra? it’s relevant to those (like myself) who think gore just might be the only dem with a chance in 2008. you can certainly see the historical precedent not only in lincoln, but even with nixon, who lost in 1960 by what was then argued vociferously by republicans as an “election steal” (late returns in chicago assisted the mayor daly political machine). eight years later: nixon wins.
the nixon legal precedents from watergate also sink bush, legally. but that’s another story entirely.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:48 pmSeixon, Duffus, that poll question leads to the answer. I don’t question that most ill-informed people would answer that way. The real question is is the president above the law? Why in the heck would you support that. This Country was founded on that we were to be “free” people safe in our persons–our home would be our castles. Protected by un-reasonable search an seziure. Protected by due process. What in the heck can be wrong with you? Don’t you get it? More than a million Americans died for that “piece of paper”.
Most likely you are that hard to fathom “angry white guy”. What in gods green (used to be green) earth are you pissed about( I don’t mean drunk)?
Did you not obtain a college degree?, got a problem with women, is your whole life putting down other people just to lift your sorry ass up?
Waiting for a jack ass response!
January 30th, 2006 at 11:01 pmgiacoma & seixon, You can’t get an answer from O’Lielly. Does it hurt your brains(if you two have one), to use them on your own? You will not find “talking points” for this.
It never surprises me that the dumb down stay that way. You do not have a clue unless it is handed to you–do you?
Well, turn on the lights and the cock roaches run! Then turn off the lights and the party is over.
So, get some “talking points” and see you later.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:33 pm49% v. 45% is a MAJORITY not a PLURALITY.
January 31st, 2006 at 3:30 amYou Betcha Chris, I think George has got a real winner on his hands. When will those damn liberal terrorist Michael Mooreian Osama Lovers get it through their heads that Americans want to be spied on by their government. Who in their right fucking mind doesn’t want the government to protect them by listening in on their conversations, reading their e-mail, scrutinizing their online surfing and what they check out at the library. This is the stuff that makes a person feel secure. I’ll bet anytime now that all those people that were calling Al Queda will be arrested. The FBI has said it over and over again that this country is chock full of sleepers with A-BOMBS. They are probably just biding their time making lots of phone calls to Pakistan and Iraq talking to Osama trying to get it planned just right to set those A-BOMBS off at just the right time.
January 31st, 2006 at 4:22 amHell I’m going to be first in line when they start putting those RFIDs up our anuses. Can’t wait to try out the new biometric national internal passports. I was so jealous when the citizens of the Soviet Union showed their papers whenever the nice KGB men asked. It really showed that they had a government that cared. I know they all felt safer and more secure.
No question about it Chris you really got your fingers on the pulse of America.
The thing of it is Chris, who would have thought that the Republicans would have initiated such a wonderful program. I mean didn’t they get elected by telling people that smaller government and less intrusive government was a good thing. Didn’t George tell us that he wasn’t in the business of nation building. He sure fooled me and to think, I voted for the other guy.
Hell when he told people that we didn’t need the government to tell us how to spend our money we know how to spend our own money. I thought what a bunch of hooey.
Then he turns around and does the most wonderful thing he gives our money to Halliburton and some other smart contributors and let them spend our money without telling us a damn thing. Now that’s clever, I like a president who is clever and everyone was calling him a dullard.
What I like about you Chris is your unwavering support for the president. It shows that you are a leader and strong just like the president. You aren’t no cut and run pussy like John Abdul Ali Baba Murtha. You stick behind the president..I should say support the president whether he tortures people, breaks the law, or even if he tells a few fibs to start a war, We both know he did all of this because he only has the interests of the people at heart.
If people only understood why he didn’t “apparently”do anything for the people of New Orleans. This is a story you got to get out Chris. The Democrats would have been falling all over themselves to rescue people and get as much aid and comfort to these people as soon as possible.
Our president deliberated over the problem and was as cool as cucumber, some people mistook this as indifferenc and a shocking lack of humanity. I’m pretty sure what he was trying to do was to set an example an be a role model and not get all panicky and scare the people down their half to death. It was just like during 9/11 when he was reading the goat story to those young impressionable children, Andy Card strolls up out of nowhere and informs him of the second plane hitting tower 2 of the trade center and just rudely walks away without getting any kind of reply. Instead of jumping up and startling those poor dears half to death, he fearlessly kept reading to those kids as though nothing extraordinary happened at all. Now that is what I call thinking on your feet… though he was sitting, nevertheless, I know that you know what I’m talking about. So you just keep on doing what you’re doing Chris, keep on defending our warrior from God as loudly and as stridently as you can. Remember this Chris, its a lesson I had to learn, and learned it I did. When people start calling you a clown, or a moron, that’s when you know you’re getting to them. Keep up the good work. You’re building yourself a nice legacy, one that will be remembered, and one that will define you forever.
“Liberalism is just a clever disguise for humanism and atheism.”
As an Atheist humanist I quite like that.
January 31st, 2006 at 6:49 amSo, get some “talking points†and see you later.
Comment by Joefriday — January 30, 2006 @ 11:33 pm
Just a personal experience to consider… Giacomo is sensitive and doesn’t like conflict. He usually tries the troll talking points, and when they don’t work, he disappears. I’m not convinced he actually reads my posts to him anyway, but I like the debate practice, so it doesn’t bother me so much. But I’ve learned, don’t expect much from him after you’ve exposed his argument. He has nothing left to say.
January 31st, 2006 at 7:48 amYou’re building yourself a nice legacy, one that will be remembered, and one that will define you forever.
Comment by yeranalyst — January 31, 2006 @ 4:22 am
Excellent!
January 31st, 2006 at 8:00 amthe Faux news types think only SOME calls are being tapped;
Washington Post/ABC (Jan. 23-26) “As you may know, the National Security Agency has been investigating people suspected of involvement with terrorism by secretly listening in on telephone calls and reading e-mails between some people in the United States and other countries, without first getting court approval to do so. Would you consider this wiretapping of telephone calls and e-mails without court approval as an acceptable or unacceptable way for the federal government to investigate terrorism?â€
Acceptable 56%. Unacceptable 43%.
Whats wrong with this POLL is it infers that ONLY SOME are being tapped, and then they ARE only supposed to be suspected terrorists.
A: Cheney/Bush/Rove were spying on ‘Political’ foes before bushs 2002 Secret program.
B; These people were NOT Terrorists
C: The NSA sigint LISTENS to ALL calls for KEYWORDS.
D: Not only are ALL communications filtered thru…Data mining such as TIA (renamed and Hidden) will acess business databases and relay the information for that ‘Shopping Card’ avery store uses now. (some discount they pay you to steal your data in effect)
E. The Fourth Amendment describes Illegal Wires Taps as Illegal Search and Seizure. (breakiing and entering)
that is effect is what happens, Breaking and Entering.
As a Crook Breaks into your home, YOU are INNOCENT, and takes something, without your consent. Now Replace crooks with Rove or Cheney. Not very trustworthy people to be putting information into the hands of.
You could be innocent and while speaking on the Phones to a Friend about a Rock Band that sucked the night before :”The Bushies Bombed”
Congrats you have been considered a ‘Terrorist in America’
and thats the danger of these programs, using gathered intelligence, as Bushco has, to further a political agenda, and not a Public one.
January 31st, 2006 at 9:00 am#390
“BUT if a state wide recount was done Gore won.”
Not if the three independent reviewers were required to have a concensus before counting a vote. Fact.
“Under a standard in which all three were required to agree, Bush won by 219 votes.”
In all of the other senerios no concensus was required.
Citing that World Socialist web site and the NY Times as holding their OPINION that the Florida vote was surpressed when election LAWS were being violated and/or made up as the recount continued is totally bogus…and yes they do kiss ass…i.e. their left wing constituents.
January 31st, 2006 at 9:12 amFunny that People buy and put so many programs on their computers to keep out spyware, and other Malware, to stop Tracking their web habits, and for the same reason as the NSA tapping above, yet when someone says terrorist (mental Image of Islamic) comes first into peoples minds. You have been ‘Framed’.
People throw away their Rights to Privacy.
Rover is eating ‘CHEESE’ on the unaware Media Watchers.
And hes not the First to do so, nor the last, same game, over and over. Look back thru History, the Crisis and the Laws written afterwords. The Pattern is fairly clear. Parties aside, people have continued, thru induced Fear by the STATE, to give up more rights than the people obtained.
Tracy, intent upon one or two ‘talking points’, ‘blinders on’, ignores the big picture, and fails to see that he is also have his cheese eaten.
January 31st, 2006 at 9:22 amTracy speaks much of Clinton, and past Failings,Yet we and we can all point to failures on both sides, Bombs, women, drugs, wars.
For some Reason, Tracy, has come into this Ideology that Democrats and Republicans are like two Seperate Races, or Colors. In this Assumption one misses the fact that we operate, currently, under a Republic Duoply.
When as many of the Democratic and Republicans Collude on the same issues, behind closed doors, and the Congress allows Signings by the president, and given him the ever increasing Powers he has today, which Both Parties agreed upon to Pass, even though Tracy speaks of Democracy, that in effect, have helped to Subvert democracy.
Now Tracy are you a Socialist?
January 31st, 2006 at 9:32 amAnd what Kind?
Tracy have you analyzed Democracy?
Or Marxist Kapitalism?
Whats the Difference?
Isnt it all ‘Socialism’ in the End?
What you Fail, and many others fail to see, is that the true ruling Structure has, thru corruption, bought out the Republican College, the Falwells, the Robertsons, the Delays and the Abramoffs.
An Example;
From the days of Sparticus, Wieskhopf, Karl Marx, Trotsky, Rosa Luxemberg, and Emma Goldman, this world conspiracy has been steadily growing. This conspiracy played a definite recognizable role in the tragedy of the French revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century. And now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their head and have become the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.”
Winston Churchill,
stated to the London Press, in l922.
Now, what many wouldnt Know, above, is that Trotsky wasnt His name. Marxism is of course Fascism, Today Under Bush its Privatization, or Capitalism. In effect Socialism
Now Tracy will continue Her/His diatribe into past Times. Yet the Picture is much bigger Tracy. Churchill says Conspiracy, but that really only means a ‘Plan’, or a powerful Ideological Group.Such as the Neo-Cons (25-30 core hardliners)
Now take this Quote from George Bush Sr,
It is the sacred principles enshrined in the United Nations charter to which the American people will henceforth pledge their allegiance.”
President George Bush
addressing the General Assembly of the U.N.,
February 1,1992
You are a “Neo-CON” tracy, you have agreed with all their crimes so far, what do you make of what Bush Sr Said here?
January 31st, 2006 at 9:52 amWhy would Sr. Want us to pledge Allegiance to the UN?
A excerpt from a reasonably old Brittish Sitcom called Yes Minister to do with opinion polls:
Sir Humphrey: “You know what happens: nice young lady comes up to you. Obviously you want to create a good impression, you don’t want to look a fool, do you? So she starts asking you some questions: Mr. Woolley, are you worried about the number of young people without jobs?”
January 31st, 2006 at 10:38 amBernard Woolley: “Yes”
Sir Humphrey: “Are you worried about the rise in crime among teenagers?”
Bernard Woolley: “Yes”
Sir Humphrey: “Do you think there is a lack of discipline in our Comprehensive schools?”
Bernard Woolley: “Yes”
Sir Humphrey: “Do you think young people welcome some authority and leadership in their lives?”
Bernard Woolley: “Yes”
Sir Humphrey: “Do you think they respond to a challenge?”
Bernard Woolley: “Yes”
Sir Humphrey: “Would you be in favour of reintroducing National Service?”
Bernard Woolley: “Oh…well, I suppose I might be.”
Sir Humphrey: “Yes or no?”
Bernard Woolley: “Yes”
Sir Humphrey: “Of course you would, Bernard. After all you told you can’t say no to that. So they don’t mention the first five questions and they publish the last one.”
Bernard Woolley: “Is that really what they do?”
Sir Humphrey: “Well, not the reputable ones no, but there aren’t many of those. So alternatively the young lady can get the opposite result.”
Bernard Woolley: “How?”
Sir Humphrey: “Mr. Woolley, are you worried about the danger of war?”
Bernard Woolley: “Yes”
Sir Humphrey: “Are you worried about the growth of armaments?”
Bernard Woolley: “Yes”
Sir Humphrey: “Do you think there is a danger in giving young people guns and teaching them how to kill?”
Bernard Woolley: “Yes”
Sir Humphrey: “Do you think it is wrong to force people to take up arms against their will?”
Bernard Woolley: “Yes”
Sir Humphrey: “Would you oppose the reintroduction of National Service?”
Bernard Woolley: “Yes”
Sir Humphrey: “There you are, you see Bernard. The perfect balanced sample.”
#393 – Jane – I appreciate your thoughtful position on the warrantless wiretapping. But I disagree with the hair splitting paranoia that is cascading from many on the left. Progressives should make the grand leap out of 1965. This ain’t your grandfather’s spying and subterfuge. Gone are the days of the “Pumpkin Papers” and disappearing ink. (Mr. Aphrodite and I went to see “Munich” the other night. Driving home, we were talking about the fact that covert and deadly missions could actually take place without the instant communication of cell phones and laptops. Watching the character signal his co-conspirator with the tip his hat – only to have the signal blocked by a passing truck – was reminiscent of Brutus or Paul Revere – and quite startling.)
Regarding those quaint Quakers. I’m sure you are familiar with the American Friends Service Committee. This group has caused havoc down here in SD with their push for open borders and their opposition to any border enforcement. Again, this is 9/10/2001 thinking.
I suppose progressives may want to maintain that title with their influence on the arts and culture but when it comes to national security they should start digging out those “smart” pill box hats or hand made leather sandals. Many of the progressive viewpoints are as current as macrame, BETA, and analog phones.
Kindest regards.
January 31st, 2006 at 10:59 amWho gives a shit about opinion polls? They have nothing to do with it. It’s all in how they frame the question, anyway. For every poll that’s framed so as to obtain one specific result about an issue, we could reframe the question and take another poll to obtain the opposite result.
That’s why laws are what matter, not polls.
January 31st, 2006 at 11:15 am[...] According to Chris Matthew, warrantless wiretapping of U.S. citizens is “a winning issue politically” for President Bush. [...]
January 31st, 2006 at 11:41 am#390
“BUT if a state wide recount was done Gore won.”
Not if the three independent reviewers were required to have a concensus before counting a vote.
“Under a standard in which all three were required to agree, Bush won by 219 votes.”
In all of the other senerios no concensus was required.
Citing that World Socialist web site and the NY Times as holding their OPINION that the Florida vote was surpressed when election LAWS were being violated and/or made up as the recount continued is totally bogus…and yes they do kiss ass…i.e. their left wing constituents
January 31st, 2006 at 11:41 amThe polling organizations should ask this question and see what kind of results they get.
FISA is a law enacted by Congress that gives the President broad surveillance powers during war time and for matters of national security. Do you approve or disapprove of President Bush’s actions which circumvent the FISA Law
January 31st, 2006 at 12:33 pmHow can anyone think that wire tapping is ok with out a warrent we have a fisa court what the hell is wrong with people!!!! Has Bush scared Americans so much with his propaganda that people can’t see how insane this is?….All of you who think it’s ok what are you on?Really people have to be on some mind altering substance to believe this administrations bulls@@t!!!!!!
January 31st, 2006 at 12:38 pmDoes anyone have any ideas on how Chris Matthews, Tim Russert, Katie Couric et al can be removed as high profile Republican echo chambers?
January 31st, 2006 at 12:49 pmDoes anyone have any ideas on how Chris Matthews, Tim Russert, Katie Couric et al can be removed as high profile Republican echo chambers?
Comment by NCMIH #427
e-mail/call their sponsors, their producers, and NBC…
use your voice…
and don’t watch them…
January 31st, 2006 at 12:59 pmWell, one thing is for sure; if Fox needs another analyst, Matthews is their boy. Between him and Russert, ugh.
January 31st, 2006 at 1:05 pmHe should change the name of his show from Hardball to NoBalls.
Many of the progressive viewpoints are as current as macrame, BETA, and analog phones.
Kindest regards.
Comment by mighty aphrodite #421
Puny Hermaphrodite,
Freedom and democracy do not equate with strong arm, secretive, intrusive, lawless, inequitable, mean spirited, racist, biased, sexist governance…
If you believe so then you’ve never really experienced freedom and democracy…
January 31st, 2006 at 1:11 pmMighty spaghetti, would you have us believe that we live in a world more dangerous today than when the Soviet Union had ten thousand nuclear warheads trained on us. Every town with more than 10000 people had at least one warhead with an explosive yield of one megatons of tnt 50 times as powerful as the bomb dropped on Hiroshima.
January 31st, 2006 at 2:37 pmYou are an example of a spoiled fat little Republican whois willing to do anything, anthing at all to protect your stinking little ass, because it is sooo important. You make me sick. You are willing to risk someone elses life, or someone elses child in a pointless war to make your pointless existance more secure. Why aren’t you in Iraq fighting for your security and the freedom you hold so dear that you are willing to sacrifice it to secure it.
Just what the hell is your notion of freedom an liberty. Mine is spelled out in the Bill of Rights as written in the Constitution of this country. Do you remember that document? The document that Your fucked up president dismissed as” its just a goddamn piece of paper?” You know the document..the covenant and contract this government has with the people of this country. If you don’t and if the president doesn’t and the congress doesn’t then the people of this country are no longer bound by it either. You either believe in the rule of law or you don’t. You don’t get to pick and choose. Because if you do so do I.
Kid George and the Coulter Club…
National hatred fills your eyes all the day
And you listen to the lies you heard them say
Left’s a man without conviction
A woman who doesn’t know
The place granted by her condition
They come and go
They come and go
Repub Repub Repub Repub Republican
The lies they told
The lies they told
Honesty shouldn’t be a death sentence
White blue and red
White blue and red
Didn’t hear their wicked words every day
The power of Congress is so quaint you heard them say
Rule of law is on their condition
The right to privacy is should be gone
The constitution has been around too long
You’ll sing along
You’ll sing along
Repub Repub Repub Repub Republican
The lies they told
The lies they told
Honesty shouldn’t be a death sentence
White blue and red
White blue and red
As every day becomes survival
January 31st, 2006 at 4:13 pmAgainst an enemy and a rival
Left’s a man without conviction
A woman who doesn’t know
The place granted by her condition
They come and go
They come and go
What is shocking is that so many Americans are so terrified of “Al Qaeda” that they are ready to throw their freedoms in the trash.
So what if Chris Matthews overestimated support for unwarranted snooping by a few points? In the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, the indignation should be overwhelming, and Bush should be facing Articles of Impeachment and unruly demonstrations against his tyrannical acts.
He can take comfort from these polls. And anyway, why should he care about polls? He’s not running for anything.
The election is eight months away. What is the progressive movement in the US doing about finding candidates and building support for them? Or is the strategy (again) to hope the Republicans defeat themselves?
January 31st, 2006 at 4:25 pm