The Truth About Health Savings Accounts
President Bush will use tomorrow’s State of the Union address to promote “health savings accounts” as a solution to America’s health care crisis. Multiple studies have shown that HSAs are likely to increase the number of uninsured and increase health care costs, all while costing taxpayers tens of billions of dollars. In other words, President Bush is proposing to do for health care what he’s already tried with Social Security — placing more of the cost burden on individuals, while making the system more attractive to the wealthy but less effective for ordinary Americans who need health coverage most.
WHAT ARE HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNTS?: Generally speaking, they are tax-free savings accounts combined with high-deductible insurance policies that people obtain through their employers or buy independently from insurance companies. More on HSAs here.
HSAs LIKELY TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF UNINSURED: According to the Commonwealth Fund, health savings accounts are “not likely to be an important contributor to expanding coverage among uninsured people” because most of uninsured Americans “do not face high-enough marginal tax rates to benefit substantially from the tax deductibility of HSA contributions.” Another study by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities finds that the number of people who would lose coverage due to employers drop health insurance or reducing the amounts they contribute toward their employees’ health insurance costs would likely exceed the number of uninsured people who would gain insurance.”
LOW- AND MIDDLE-INCOME AMERICANS GAIN LITTLE OR NO TAX SAVINGS FROM HSAs: “Low-and middle-income uninsured people will gain meager or no tax savings” from health savings accounts, according to a Commonwealth Fund study. Currently, roughly 50 percent of uninsured adults pay no federal income taxes, meaning that “tax incentives for high-deductible health plans would have little impact on uninsured adults.” Moreover, “uninsured people in the middle income tax bracket would see potential savings of just 3 percent to 6 percent on a typical high-deductible health plan premium of $2,000.”
HSA USERS PAY MORE OUT-OF-POCKET COSTS: Individuals with “consumer-driven” health plans (CDHPs) and high-deductible insurance plans (HDHPs) are “more likely to spend a larger share of their income on out-of-pocket health care costs plus premiums than those in comprehensive health plans. According to one study, “more than two-fifths (42 percent) of individuals with HDHPs and 3 in 10 (31 percent) in CDHPs spent 5 percent or more of their income on out-of-pocket costs plus premiums in the past year, compared with about 1 in 10 (12 percent) in comprehensive health plans.”
HSAs COULD COST TAXPAYERS $41 BILLION OVER TEN YEARS: The health savings accounts envisioned by President Bush will cost American taxpayers roughly $41 billion over ten years, according to government studies. The Bush administration estimates that the provision of the Medicare drug bill that established health savings accounts will cost $16 billion over the next decade. President Bush has also proposed an additional tax deduction on the accounts, which both the Bush administration and the Joint Committee on Taxation estimate will cost roughly $25 billion over the same period.
HSA USERS MORE LIKELY TO AVOID, SKIP, OR DELAY HEALTH CARE BECAUSE OF COSTS: Individuals with “consumer-driven” health plans (CDHPs) and high-deductible health plans (HDHPs) — both elements of health savings accounts — “were significantly more likely to avoid, skip, or delay health care because of costs than were those with comprehensive insurance, with problems particularly pronounced among those with health problems or incomes under $50,000.” According to one study, “about one-third of individuals in CDHPs (35 percent) and HDHPs (31 percent) reported delaying or avoiding care, compared with 17 percent of those in comprehensive health plans.”
HSAs WILL UNDERMINE EMPLOYER-BASED HEALTH CARE SYSTEM: The current policy of promoting high deductible plans (including the proposal for a new tax deduction for individual high-deductible policies) will weaken the employer-based health care system by providing employers who are already seeking relief from high health care costs with an excuse to drop coverage altogether, sending employees to the individual market. This market cherry-picks the healthy and creates barriers to coverage for the sick. In other words, this policy undermines the purpose of insurance (whether health, homeowners, car, or any other type), which is to pool risk.
HSA EXPERIMENTS HAVE FAILED IN OTHER COUNTRIES: Just
as Americans learned of the pitfalls of Social Security privatization from experiences in Chile and the UK, so we can learn about the flaws of President Bush’s health care proposals from South Africa and Singapore, which both implemented versions of HSAs. A study by the Harvard School of Public Health analyzed the health savings accounts enacted in Singapore and found they had “caused financial hardship for Singapore’s citizens and…adversely affected the cost-effectiveness of its health care system.” Likewise, in South Africa, which has “a decade’s worth of experience with similar consumer-driven health plans,” the cost of specialty care has increased 43 percent, the cost of hospital care is up 65 percent, and uninsured rates have “continued to grow rapidly.”
HSAs TO ENRICH FINANCIAL SERVICES INDUSTRY: The New York Times reports, “Banks, credit unions and money management firms are now quietly positioning themselves to become central players in the business of health care” by offering HSAs, tapping into the “$75 billion or so in new money to manage [that] will soon be at stake.” According to the Times, “Banking lobbyists have met with White House officials at least three times over the last year to discuss the rules governing health savings vehicles,” and have now established a lobbying group, the H.S.A. Council, and “are spending millions of dollars to roll the plans out.”
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HA
The philly named “Medicare Reform” is barely 30 days out of the gates and is running on a broken leg already.
Go figure.
January 30th, 2006 at 5:54 pmI have a Health Savings Account and a high deductible health insurance policy. All it gave me is the feeling that in the middle of a prostate exam someone broke something off and left it.
January 30th, 2006 at 5:57 pmGeorge, please, stop trying to “help.” Might as well start a Christmas club account…
January 30th, 2006 at 5:57 pmCome on the HMO’s are jealous of all the money the Pharma industry is getting
January 30th, 2006 at 6:00 pmHealth Savings Accounts are another form of gambling. If you’re contributing to one and you don’t use all that you saved, you lose the money. Since my psychic skills are very rusty and I can’t determine what I may spend in the next year on health insurance, I refuse to use it.
What I want to know is, who keeps our money when we don’t use it all?
January 30th, 2006 at 6:00 pmAmerica is really pathetic when it comes to caring for people , The American dream can be lived better in Europe
January 30th, 2006 at 6:03 pmAnd of course, it’s less than no help for someone who’s diabetic with heart problems–like me. I’m a net loss on any insurance policy. I couldn’t save enough to cover my health costs.
This will take healthy people out of the pool with people like me. Thus leaving people like me to choose between spending on our children, or spending on our health.
Bush’s play, for me, is a death sentence.
January 30th, 2006 at 6:04 pmHSAs are just another way to line the pockets of Wall Street. They get our money, get to invest it, and they also stand to make hundereds of thousands of dollars on transaction fees.
January 30th, 2006 at 6:09 pmWhat is really happening is that the health insurance industry is insolvent.
Just like Ford and GM. The Second Great Depression is here.
It’s over, folks. Buh bye Republicans and Democrats. Come November there won’t be anymore political capital to spend.
It’s kaput already. See ya, George, but not on TV.
January 30th, 2006 at 6:11 pmInsurance works by pooling it’s participants to lower the average costs for all.
The whole idea behind a National Health Plan is the same thing. Look at all the companies that are using bankrupcy to drop coverage for their retirees. look at all the companies that say they can’t compete with Japan & Europe because there it’s the government that cover’s those costs, not the individual companies.
Yes, it’s ALOT of money. But if it’s cheaper in the long run and alows our businesses to stay in business, we should be able to sell the idea even to republicans.
Wait’ll our resident naysayers log on.
January 30th, 2006 at 6:15 pmSorry to post and run, but it’s time to go home. But before I go…
I’m not against capitalism. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with making a small profit off some invention or service or something. I do think there is something wrong with wanting too much money, and this is where I have a problem with health care in this country.
I would much rather get a life-saving drug from someone who made that drug because he wanted to save my life than I would from a someone who made the drug in order to make as much money as possible. I do not believe that Health Care is an area that should be driven completely by market forces. The idea that life-saving medication might be denied you just because you can’t pay what the manufacturer wants to charge you is disgusting.
It would be nice if Health Care was one of those areas driven by people who want to help others, and not people who want your every last penny before you die.
But that’s just me. Love to stay and chat, but it’s time to head home.
January 30th, 2006 at 6:15 pmIt’s a safe bet any time the Neo-Cons use the term “reform” it means “reroute funds into the pockets of big business”.
If you have enough money to really make a HSA work, you are wealthy enough to be insured. More bogus proposals by the neo-con landed gentry.
January 30th, 2006 at 6:18 pmAMERICA WAKE UP
Democratic leaders call medicare drug legislation the product of a “corrupt legislative process,” seek investigation into role of scandal-tainted lobbying group.
In a letter to Speaker Hastert, Democratic Leader Pelosi, Democratic Whip Hoyer, and Ranking Member Waxman ask for a congressional investigation into the role played by the Alexander Strategy Group, a lobbying firm closely linked to Tom DeLay and Jack Abramoff, in the passage of the Medicare Prescription Drug Act and the drafting of the budget reconciliation bill currently before the Congress. The text of the letter follows: READ IT
AMERICA WAKE UP
This was old news, last month.
But does this mean that America is stirring wake?
AMERICA WAKE UP
January 30th, 2006 at 6:23 pmYou know, I like this site and visit often, but I have never gotten a single one of the videos on this site to play in Firefox.
Anyone know why??
January 30th, 2006 at 6:40 pmBEST STRATEGY IS TO:
1. PUBLICIZE THE FLAWS OF THIS VEGAS-STYLE HEALTH CARE SCHEME.
2. CREATE A DIVERSION BY DEMANDING BUSH FIX THE F’ED UP MEDICARE DRUG THING BEFORE HE STARTS SCREWING AROUND WITH THE REST OF THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.
3. PARTNER WITH AARP TO KILL THIS DAMN THING.
4. IF WE COULD EXPLAIN IT’S A RICH GUY’S WAY OF GETTING OUT OF PUTTING MONEY INTO THE NATIONAL SYSTEM THAT BENEFITS ALL, THAT MIGHT HELP TOO.
January 30th, 2006 at 6:40 pmOH YEAH:
IF YOU HAVE ANY PARENTS, GRANDPARENTS, AUNTS, UNCLES……CUT AND PASTE THIS “TRUTH ABOUT HSA” THING AND SEND IT TO THEM AND TELL THEM TO SEND IT TO THEIR FRIENDS, FELLOW CHURCH GOERS, BRIDGE CLUB PARTNERS, WHATEVER.
OLD PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THIS STUFF AND THEY VOTE RELIGIOUSLY. THEY’RE THE ONES WHO KILLED BUSH’S SOCIAL SECURITY SCAM.
January 30th, 2006 at 6:43 pm#16 Comment by BUSH BITES
Very well put.
The collective voice of the people need to gather up their kindling of disdain and light the fire in their Congress so as to burn out their president.
VIVE LA REVOLUTION!!!
January 30th, 2006 at 6:51 pmThat’s right kids. Time for the War on Health Care. I hear Health Care has weapons of mass destruction.
January 30th, 2006 at 6:52 pmMy wife is self employed in the real estate business. She has an HSA/Blue cross stoploss account. The premium of 500.00 per month is cut in half, we put the difference in her HSA account. She uses a debit card to pay Med XP from the HSA up to the Bc/Bs deductable, after that BC/BS pays..IF we control the med expense, we keep the annual contribution for latter expenses assuming we stay under $2500 per year. {the deductable]
January 30th, 2006 at 6:52 pm#18 their WMD is the plan to add enough fees and costs that the savings accounts actually lose money to the individual to the benifit to the corporation. When enough individuals are hurt by this process the HMA becomes a WMD
January 30th, 2006 at 7:00 pmJim
You forgot to mention the deductables.
Prescription
January 30th, 2006 at 7:04 pmEmergency
Doctor Visits
Long Term Care
Jim very few people whom work at the wonderful jobs that replace the industrial jobs lost have $500 a month to spare, after the mortgage et al. A savings account doesn’t work if you barely have enough to get by.
January 30th, 2006 at 7:04 pmEveryone become self employed as private contractors file schedule C’s and then take the deduction. Shift it to the feds not the states.
January 30th, 2006 at 7:14 pmI have to buy my own insurance: $280/month, $5000 annual deductible, for 80/20 coverage, Rx discount. I am pretty healthy, so I opted for the high deductible, thinking if a catastrophic ailment hits, my coverage will kick in 80% and I’ll work out payments for the 20%. Not an ideal plan, but it gets me through for now. I expect an increase in June.
January 30th, 2006 at 7:14 pmHow in the world can a family afford insurance on their own?
I think it is disgraceful that the problems with insurance, with health care, with education are so hard hitting on the most vulnerable — kids.
We need a workable, national health care plan. Maybe a combination of plans — but we are all suffering now; paying for less care, less service, and a generally sicker, more vulnerable public.
#19-20-21-22 We do have minor fees per month, but the interest offsets it. We do ALL of her health costs thru the HSA. # 21 The deductables are from the $ taken out of the HSA. The longterm care is another problem..All the rest come from the HSA. # 22 You are correct. Re-education is the near term answer
January 30th, 2006 at 7:17 pmI neglected to add that Bush’s HSA plan is a bad one. The working poor will get little or nothing, everyone will pay more and the programs for the poor will be undermined. This is no better than his plan for Social Security.
January 30th, 2006 at 7:17 pmThanks for your details Marie, we don’t even have Rx, but 2 main gripes I have are: no good health reward points, and the notion if you become uninsured your risk some how becomes a penalty.
January 30th, 2006 at 7:20 pmIf we watch our Med XEP carefully we should have $$$ to help pay for Med exp after she quits selling..OR its tax free money AFTER retirement…..
January 30th, 2006 at 7:22 pm# 23 All can deduct for Med Ex
January 30th, 2006 at 7:25 pmThe “plan” is completely useless. Just today, there’s a story out about savings are at the lowest rate since the depression. Who the hell is going to save? Heating bills here are up almost 100% from last year. Gasoline is going up again and Exxon made $10 billion more this quarter.
Here’s the difference between the parties. The Repubs have made Exxon, Pharmas, and Insurance Cos. filthy rich. The rest of the people are wondering how to pay for heat and their prescriptions. If the Dems can’t show the contrast to all those people who voted for Bush because “there’s no difference between them”, we’re down the shitter as a country
January 30th, 2006 at 7:30 pmJim who is “all” can deduct? So even if all don’t pay any taxes it can be deducted? Thanks for your patience.
January 30th, 2006 at 7:35 pm#30 Dick,
January 30th, 2006 at 7:36 pmI saw that report too. Savings are at the lowest since 1933!! What with all we are spending individually on health care, fuel, and food, shelter and clothing, there is nothing much left to save.
I read that gold is up to $538 oz. Does that mean the value of the dollar is getting more risky?
Frankly, I think we should all be concerned that so many are not insured. It’s just too costly for too many. I really want a national system that provides care for everyone - why should anyone get health care/coverage because he can afford it while someone else walks the tightrope without a net. It seems so 19th century, so Dickens-like, so backwards.
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January 30th, 2006 at 8:14 pmMax1, I agree with much of what you and all the rest are posting except the following. First off the AARP came out loud and strong on the HMO
January 30th, 2006 at 8:15 pmJudd,
Any chance that we can get a forum about the Democrats that sided with the Republicans to vote against the filibuster today? The 25 Democrats who stood up for us need to be acknowledged… We need to know who to vote for in November and who to fire.
Thanks
January 30th, 2006 at 8:35 pmThe cut on health care balances out to about this:
January 30th, 2006 at 8:37 pm35% to lawyers
25% to insurers
25% to drug companies
15% to doctors and hospitals.
This is another bogus program proposed by President Bush Junior to obscure the need for Universal Health care in America! WE should have a Canadian Health system, but HMOs and Insurance companies like it the way it is presently!
January 30th, 2006 at 9:07 pm#36 Unbelievable,
January 30th, 2006 at 9:11 pmI just clicked on here to ask a question along the same line. I learned who the 25 “defectors” are, but what I don’t understand is why they chose to vote for cloture and not go all the way toward a filibuster.
The votes were not there to stop Alito anyway, so why not stand as a unit instead of breaking up as they did?
The Rethugs are gloating. Bush is claiming his agenda will prevail. How did those 25 change anything except make the Dems look bad?
Only 1/4 of my last post came through. It was chopped off and much detail left off, like the elderly that are working in service jobs for the needed med and pres. coverage.Met one 74 year old woman and 68 year old man at Safeway last week and that was their answer. Work till you drop under the Bush regeme or be like me and the 48 million with health isssues and no coverage….Blessings
January 30th, 2006 at 9:15 pmCan’t we get a troll to defend this “proposal”?
January 30th, 2006 at 9:20 pm[…] UPDATE: The Truth About Health Savings Accounts […]
January 30th, 2006 at 9:30 pmi sometimes think no-one in america has an elderly grandparent when it comes to the average response to healthcare issues. just on its own, a fairer policy on healthcare would be a huge vote winner.
today, my wife needed to have allergy tests. we called the health insurance people. they intimated that if she had basically anything equivalent to a sniffle in her medical records, there was no coverage, as it was a pre-existing condition (they offer no information on just how far back through your records they will go). we had to cancel, not enough money.
there needs to be a more progressive policy formulated, there also needs to be an overhaul of how the health insurance companies “honor” (a word i suspect is foreign to them) the policies they sell.
i am not an American, i’m english and live in memphis. it’s clear that there are a lot of great people in America, and that there is a lot of social resistance to admitting how much people are struggling. i work as a playwright, and i know the power of articulating the thoughts and feelings that people suppress to maintain their persona. democrats need to provide the catharsis of speaking out in plain language about how much families are suffering because of lack of insurance cover and the huge costs of paying for monthly meds.
January 30th, 2006 at 9:30 pmI can’t even afford health insurance at all. This just sounds like a way to put it even farther out of reach.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:52 pmA standard of clarity we can all strive for. Bush Explains Medicare Drug Bill — This is a verbatim quote — Dec 13, 2005.
WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: “I don’t really understand. How is it the new plan going to fix the problem?”
Verbatim response from PRESIDENT BUSH: “‘Because the — all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculated, for example, is on the table. Whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases.
There’s a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those — changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be — or closer delivered to that has been promised.
Does that make any sense to you? It’s kind of muddled. Look, there’s a series of things that cause the — like, for example, benefits are calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the increase of prices. Some have suggested that we calculate — the benefits will rise based upon inflation, supposed to wage increases.
There is a reform that would help solve the red if that were put into effect. In other words, how fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those — if that growth is affected, it will help on the red.”
January 30th, 2006 at 11:18 pm#30 Comment by Dick (no, not that one)
Good point.
EXXON AND PHARMACEUTICALS
HEATING OIL/GAS AND MEDICARE
January 30th, 2006 at 11:21 pm#36 Comment by unbelievable
It will happen.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:23 pm#44 Comment by Carol
Thus is the way of the PLANTATION LAND LORD.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:26 pm#45 Comment by Don
O.K.
After I reread his words, I had to reread them again.
And once I thought I understood his words, I’m not so sure I understand.
The buy-in to the program is based on inflation???
Isn’t the BushCo aware that inflation is outgrowing wages???
Isn’t the BushCo aware that saveings, for the average American family is falling???
Isn’t the BushCo aware that anual GDP vs, Earnings FELL a half a percent for the last Quarter. Granted the anual comparisson(all four quarters) grew, but if the last quarter is any reflection, along with the deficit of the budget, and rating poll numbers, Bush might reexamine the whole BEAST.
AMERICA WAKE UP
January 30th, 2006 at 11:37 pmBush and co. as full of shit as a christmas goose. Fill the publics heads full of crap while they pick our pockets and rights clean…..Blessings
January 30th, 2006 at 11:57 pm#36, Comment by unbelievable
January 31st, 2006 at 12:03 amI don’t know the names, but at least 14, were Democrats from red states. The went with the cloture, because their red states voted for Bush in 2004. Their fear was a backlash if they stood with the Democrats’ filibuster. Because they feel their constituents favor Bush, they decided they needed to pacify their voters, to get re-elected. It had nothing to do with, whether Alito, was the right, or wrong person, for the job.
Profiles in cowardice.
January 31st, 2006 at 12:34 amSharon,
January 31st, 2006 at 12:44 amI usually stuff my Christmas goose with bread, oysters and blue crab meat. Do you have a better recipe?
Walt, think I will try pop corn this next year, then when it blows the ass out of the goose, just maybe it will get rid of some of the grease and graft, like this administration. My senator, Cantwell is from our so called blue state and voted with with the Repugs for cloture. She will never get my vote again….Blessings all
January 31st, 2006 at 5:10 amWouldn’t it be nice if many of those attending tonight’s address would simply turn their backs to this guy…..show the people, show the world, we really have had enough.
January 31st, 2006 at 7:33 am[…] - The Truth About Health Savings Accounts - Think Progress […]
January 31st, 2006 at 7:53 amWith their record of “successes” the criminal Bushite junta shouldn’t be allowed to make any more decisions period…
Today Samuel Alito will be sworn in as a Supreme Court “justice” (choke,gag#%@^*&), America is going to hell quicker than we all realize!
Kill ‘em (politically) before they grow…
January 31st, 2006 at 8:26 amHow did those 25 change anything except make the Dems look bad?
Comment by Marie — January 30, 2006 @ 9:11 pm
Marie,
They let us know who we can count on. I think they looked strong. People seem to respect those who stand on principal and fail more than those who go along with the crowd to go along. Especially when they’ve been elected to stand on principals, you know?
And I sincerely hope that the Dems who voted with the Repugs will lose their seats to Independents and Greens and write-in candidates to discourage this sort of self-serving behaviour in the future.
That and I’m trying to find out how to get a work visa in France :)
January 31st, 2006 at 8:40 amIt’s not just that there are few tax benefits for lower income people - it’s that they do not have the money to put aside in a health savings account. Do the Neocons even understand the word “poor”??? How much extra money do the middle class even have lying around to put into these accounts?
As for me, I am SO glad for my health insurance plan at work. Without it my entire extended family would be bankrupt from my illness - and I would probably be dead instead of in remission. If the Neocons undermine the existing admittedly flawed healthcare system with a morally bankrupt social Darwinist plan, God help us all.
Speaking of Darwin (this is clearly off topic), after reading Richard Dawkins’ The Ancestor’s Tale I have been plowing through the rest of his books - great reads.
January 31st, 2006 at 9:01 amnice try GW. Maybe exxon should match us at the pump. $3/gallon, automatically debits your ATM another $3 for healthcare. Oh, wait then we’re paying four times as much for a gallon of gas thanks to this crackhead. How civilized.
January 31st, 2006 at 9:57 amUnbelievable,
January 31st, 2006 at 9:58 amI erred in my earlier post — it was the 19 who voted FOR cloture that I intended to criticize, not the 25 who voted for filibuster.
I am furious with the 19 who voted for their own perceived political security instead of voting with the Democrats to show the thugs in Congress that the Dems are on the same team here.
I doubted from the start that the Dems’ filibuster would be successful, but if they had all hung together it would have made a statement - now they just look foolish.
I apologize for my error in previous posts.
Its a Fact that Gonzales Weakens National Security.
Its a Fact that Cheney spied His Own Office
Cheney Weakens National Security.
Bush spied Before the 2002, he ‘weakened National Security
Franklin was a SPY during Bush Admin
HE Weakened National Security and got 12 Years.
Safavian a White House procurement Officer was found Gulity with Franklin Another Bush Admin ‘Weakened National Security’
Bush admin cant keep track of Peope visiting White House
Jeff Gannon 200 Visits, By White House Records hes Still IN
the White House. Republican Shill reporter and Bush Admin again by giving press pass WEAKENS NATIONAL SECURITY
in case you have notice the NEW Faux ROVE POINT is
January 31st, 2006 at 10:13 amBush WEAKENED NATIONAL SECURITY
and how the heck did the post end up here? LOL My bad sorry apply this to Gonzales thread –mr ho
January 31st, 2006 at 10:14 am[…] This is why I’m excited about Health Savings Accounts, allegedly the center of Bush’s State of the Union. If all the wonks in D.C. were to get together to consider a health care reform, they’d be hard-pressed to find one that would accomplish less at greater cost while completely ignoring those who need the most help but providing a tax benefit to the wealthiest Americans. […]
January 31st, 2006 at 10:24 amI apologize for my error in previous posts.
Comment by Marie — January 31, 2006 @ 9:58 am
No problem, I knew what you meant.
I still don’t think they looked foolish. At least not to people who understand anything :). I’m glad they did it. Frequently in our culture we look to much to ‘win’ or ‘lose’ and not enough to those who stood up for what they believe in. We got the majority of them at least :) that’s an improvement…
January 31st, 2006 at 11:09 am[…] More…. « True Lies […]
January 31st, 2006 at 11:09 amYou Dems are all the same “I don’t have healthcare, I can’t afford healthcare”.
If it wasn’t for the president, Osama Laden will be coming to your home and cutting your head off.
January 31st, 2006 at 11:29 amIf it wasn’t for the president, Osama Laden will be coming to your home and cutting your head off.
Comment by Bruce — January 31, 2006 @ 11:29 am
Because he captured him and Osama is locked away tightly n prison? No - he’s at large, still making threats of new attacks. Because Bush failed to capture him. So how are we safe exactly???
(Though, Osama personally cutting the heads off of 280 million people is not only unlikely, but impossible. Do that math… or can you?)
January 31st, 2006 at 11:35 amWhat in the hell is wrong with you buddy. Have you not heard of Iraq? I got half my family over there protecting you. Why do you think we have programs in place to listen to these terrorists as they make plans. Havent you heard of a guy trying to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge. We got that guy from using our intelligence.
Bush knows he can’t kill or capture Osama. If he does all of the Moslim world will be after us.
January 31st, 2006 at 11:46 amHSAs are simply another sort of financial instrument to make money for those who can play them. People who actually need health care need not apply.
The Republicans will try to sell this ‘reform’ by pretending it brings the miracle cure of the free market to the ills of high health care costs. Nothing could be further from the truth. How many of us would shop for the cheapest heart surgeon? the cheapest neurosurgeon? etc etc etc. And how likely is it that when you have been the victim of some rather horrific accident, you would take the time to await your return to consciousness so you could decide whether ER X is a better deal than ER Y?
No, HSAs are not about health care or even about eliminating excess in the market, even though you’ll hear lots of claptrap about how Americans are ‘overinsured’. HSAs are financial instruments to make financial players money. Rather like long term health care policies.
January 31st, 2006 at 12:23 pmBruce remember the duct tape and plastic and you will be OK
January 31st, 2006 at 12:26 pmOsama is either dead and buried or hiding in plane sight on a ranch (pig farm), some where in Crawford, Texas…..Blessings
January 31st, 2006 at 12:46 pmBruce– You’re just joking, right? Seriously.
January 31st, 2006 at 12:49 pmSharon bin laden’s on bushes couch with his Egyptian doctor friend watching the home movies of George and osama as children at Carlyle picnics as 41 and osama’s dad hang out together.
January 31st, 2006 at 1:21 pmI hear a lot of talk about a one party buyer, the federal government, as being the solution to healthcare. I work in the aerospace industry that is arguably a one party buyer. Without the federal government most, if not all, the American aerospace companies would fail to make a profit or even for that matter have a sustainable industry. There is enormous waste and influence surrounding these companies that has unbelievable clout in Washington. How do we prevent the same thing from happening in a one party buyer system for health care?
January 31st, 2006 at 1:23 pmWhat in the hell is wrong with you buddy. Have you not heard of Iraq? I got half my family over there protecting you.
Of course, I’m one of the minority who can point to it on an unmarked map, unlike you. However - Iraq has NOTHING to do with Osama. Even your side is finally admitting that now.
I’m not a ‘buddy’, I’m a woman. Know the articulate tone confused your redneck brain, but deal with it.
Why do you think we have programs in place to listen to these terrorists as they make plans. Havent you heard of a guy trying to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge. We got that guy from using our intelligence.
You mean the illegal Constitution violation of Bush listening to Quakers and an Vegans? Yeah that’ll help.
Bush knows he can’t kill or capture Osama. If he does all of the Moslim world will be after us.
Comment by Bruce — January 31, 2006 @ 11:46 am
That’s assinine. Makes no sense. The reality is that Al Qaeda was seen by the Islamic world as fundamental sociopaths. Kinda like normal people see Pat Roberson and Jerry Faldwell - crazy people to be ignored. Until we attacked Iraq, and they saw it as an attack on Islam. So if anyone is responsible for Muslims hating us it is your Commander in Thief, not Osama.
And because you could use a reality check, here it it:
In 230 years, there has been one “terroristic†attack on American soil by foreign agents. In this attack 3,052 people were killed. Not all of them were living in America, so this will work to your advantage, actually. By doing the math… we’ll get the odds of being killed by a terrorist in America if you live here.
First, 3052/280,000,000 (number of fatalities in the attack divided by the approximate number of people living in the United States at that time) gives us 0.0000109. Your odds of being an American killed in the attacks of 9/11 were 0.00109% for that year. Or approximately 1 in 100,000.
Now, since the math for calculating the odds over the course of your lifetime becomes more complicated since the population varies and I don’t know your age. So, to be gracious and conservative, I’ll assume you are 40 (easier math too). The population of the United States in 1966 was roughly 195,501,000. So if we do the calculations for this end of the spectrum, and then take an average between the two, divided by 40 years, we get an approximate lifetime risk of you (assumed as a 40 year old) being killed by terrorists. That number is approximately 1 in a million.
Now, let’s look at some other odds for you being killed by non-Osama related events in the course of your pitiful existence.
Odds of fatally slipping in bath or shower: 2,232 to 1
Odds of being considered possessed by Satan: 7,000 to 1
Chance of dying from any kind of injury during the next year: 1 in 1,820
Chance of dying from intentional self-harm: 1 in 9,380
Chance of dying from an assault: 1 in 16,421
Chance of dying from a car accident: 1 in 18,585
Chance of dying from any kind of fall: 1 in 20,666
Chance that Earth will experience a catastrophic collision with an asteroid in the next 100 years: 1 in 5,000
Chance of dying in such a collision: 1 in 20,000
Chance of having a stroke: 1 in 6
Chance of dying from heart disease: 1 in 3
Chance of American man developing cancer in his lifetime: 1 in 2
Chance of an American woman developing cancer in her lifetime: 1 in 3
Chance of getting prostate cancer: 1 in 6
Chance of getting breast cancer: 1 in 9
Chance of getting colon / rectal cancer: 1 in 26
(source: http://funny2.com/odds.htm)
January 31st, 2006 at 1:44 pmI got half my family over there protecting you.
Comment by Bruce #69
Brute,
Look numbnuts, half your family is in Iraq protecting Halliburton and L’il Dick and Bushiva’s goose that’s laying golden eggs on a daily basis…
You may believe that “fightin’ ‘em over there”…
…fly paper defense sh*t…
But thinking people don’t!
Go trade that right wing talking point patriotism sh*t on the red state board!
January 31st, 2006 at 1:59 pmThe guy who “tried to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge” was a mad man with a blow torch. How many cables did he think he would set on fire?
January 31st, 2006 at 2:21 pm[…] full article at Think Progress I rather not comment this time, hower only that much, South Africa is citied as an example for HSA. I lived there 7 years, and boy oh boy, health care is Very expensive on the southern tip of Africa Comments […]
January 31st, 2006 at 2:51 pmMy dr. that I visit once a year to renew a prescription told me to look into the HSA b/c that is what he has (guess what? he is self employed too and knows that the system is broke). I did the research and then I did the math. Here is how it works out: disaster coverage for my family is $800 per month. No pre-existing conditions or prescriptions are included. This would be coverage strictly for colon cancer or a broken arm type thing. Using the tax break from the HSA would bring that cost down to roughly $533 per month. Yeah, that’s totally worth it. Wait, worth what? If someone in my family gets really sick the hospital would take payments of $500 per month gladly.
In fact, I have my own savings account for what I would have paid in insurance and it is now up to $18,000. My sister works in collections for a hospital and they routinely take a small percentage of the cost in cash to close accounts from uninsured. I still take my kids to the dr. for routine stuff and pay for it out of my savings account. If anyone can see how I am worse off with this money in my account than with an insurance company I would like to know how.
I want a tax break on my own savings account w/o having to pay a money mgmt firm and spend hours trying to figure out how much I have to spend or how to spend it.
January 31st, 2006 at 3:23 pmI have had an HSA for 2 yrs now, I think it is great, I get to save almost $5000 pretax and spend very little on the insurance premiums…Way to go Mr Bush, I love you.
January 31st, 2006 at 3:29 pmBarb you are right…these lib’s are just fearmongering(as usual) because none of them understand it. I have over $10,000 in savings for my HSA, and my wife and kids all use the MD for checkups. My monthly insurance premiums are $80 with Aetna, and it includes a drug card.
These libs are going crazy because they have lost all power, Bush is running the show,and these Marxists have lost.
HAHA
January 31st, 2006 at 3:38 pmI’m sure everyone would like more information about your Aetna insurance coverage Matt. Do you work for a large company that pays a portion of that cost? As a small business owner I couldn’t dream of that kind of coverage for my family. Please provide a web link showing a program with those rates.
I don’t want to be disparaging, but your post doesn’t make you sound like a very intelligent or nice person. You didn’t really read my post or comprehend it and it sounds like you gain satisfaction and self esteem from “running the show” and categorizing people. Not everyone has the same healthy family and unbelievable benefits as you. Some people want to help them out and make our entire country stronger. Here is a newsflash for you: the “show” is not going so hot- it might be time to let someone else “run it” for a while.
January 31st, 2006 at 3:53 pmBarb, I am a nice person. Forgive my sardonic humor, but I do not like being preached to by socialists who want to run my life and my destiny.
Regardless of how healthy you are, the HSA makes sense because you fund the deductible portion of the plan with before tax dollars, in the same way you would pay for your insurance premiums. There is a maximum out of pocket cost and deductible, and this is all covered by my HSA, it is very simple. If you deplete your HSA, you continue funding it with your before tax contributions, the same way you pay for premiums. It is a no brainer.
I cannot stand these people who try to scare people but not telling the truth about HSA’s…..Barb, this is a typical tactic with their kind, to keep them in bondage of socialism.
Maybe you agree with Socialism, I don’t. Here is the website for Aetna, comrade http://www.aetna.com
January 31st, 2006 at 4:03 pmHSA’s. Great idea! Just never lose your main source of income, never have a catastrophic financial event happen (death in family, natural disaster, stock market crash) and never let one or more of your family members get really sick! Genius!
January 31st, 2006 at 4:30 pmHSA’s. Great idea! Just never lose your main source of income, never have a catastrophic financial event happen (death in family, natural disaster, stock market crash) and never let one or more of your family members get really sick! Genius!
Don’t worry, you still have welfare…..
January 31st, 2006 at 4:43 pmForgive my sardonic humor, but I do not like being preached to by socialists who want to run my life and my destiny.
Comment by Matt — January 31, 2006 @ 4:03 pm
I wish you conservatives would remember this feeling (though completely fabricated by you to judge us) when you’re trying to dictate how to run my womb, my right to be free from your religion, and my right to equality. But we don’t expect you to be empathetic anymore than we expect you to be fair, honest, charitable or human in general.
January 31st, 2006 at 4:46 pm[…] Take this Nico cat over at Think Progess. He’s written a post that pretty much says Bush’s plan for Health Saving Accounts is destined to be a disaster for the common man. Nico certainly has a strong sense of the obvious. What he doesn’t have is a strong sense of the ridiculous. He quotes sources nobody by him has ever heard of like they are Scientific American or Nature! It’s an old trick. The politicians, journalist and preachers do it all the time. […]
January 31st, 2006 at 4:46 pmSOTU Speech and Health Savings…
This blogger does a good job of outlining why they are NOT a good idea. Don’t know that I totally agree, since I know some people who have them (and like them). See what you think….
January 31st, 2006 at 5:04 pmIt is important to understand that the HSA is NOT insurance. This is a plan to try to offset the outrageous cost of health insurance. While I appreciate the effort, it will fail because health insurance companies will continue to increase rates and thereby negating any benefits of the HSA.
Even worse, the insurance companies are starting their own banks so that they can benefit from both sides of this. I feel like this industry is holding the health of my family hostage. I have turned my back and pay cash for each individual requirement and am way ahead of the game at this point as I keep track of what I have paid out of pocket and what I would have paid in insurance. I know I am at risk for a catastrophe and that this is harming less healthy people whose rates will increase b/c there is one less healthy family in the insurance “pool”.
Is there a compromise between abandoning the capitalistic rights of these insurance companies that should reap reward for their risk and services and providing decent health care to those in our nation that can’t afford the current system?
January 31st, 2006 at 5:23 pmIs there a compromise between abandoning the capitalistic rights of these insurance companies that should reap reward for their risk and services and providing decent health care to those in our nation that can’t afford the current system?
Comment by barb — January 31, 2006 @ 5:23 pm
Yes there is, but the neocons don’t do compromise… It’s divide and conquer - then dominate.
I do what I can to avoid illness by maintaining a very healthy lifestyle, and frequently washing my hands. So far, I’m like you - no need for standard ‘insurance’. But also like you I wonder when it will catch up and bite me because of something beyond my control…
January 31st, 2006 at 5:39 pmresponding to 91
Well, the heck with them or anyone else that doesn’t want to put effort into solving this. There is a VERY serious problem here. I can tell from these posts that there are some really intelligent people that are as worried as I am participating in this e-discussion. Let’s hear some thoughts, ideas, proposals!
Regardless of party affiliation, the group that puts forth a reasonable plan will do very well in an election. Everyone I know that doesn’t work for a large company with great benefits (and even some that do) are really freaked out by this.
What is the natural progression here?
1. Tax breaks through HSA’s sealing the Gov recommendation of the private insurance industry
2. insurance rates continue to increase because a. fewer people can afford coverage or opt out of it b/c they are healthy and b. the insurance providers lose money on the sick people that are sticking with the system b/c it is a better deal for them
3. hospitals will initially treat people regardless of insurance status but once they are about to go out of business they will have to stop that practice
4. lawsuits from the families of the people that die from non-treatment will shut down private hospitals
What then??
I think I will start my own company offering low interest loans to people that know they need a medical procedure and they will still be better off than having insurance b/c at least it is for a real problem rather than a threat of one. Maybe I can even get the Gov to give people tax breaks on the interest.
Although I welcome input, please don’t reply to just tear that idea apart. I really want to hear from anyone that has an idea that won’t stop capitalism but helps people out as well.
January 31st, 2006 at 5:58 pmBut also like you I wonder when it will catch up and bite me because of something beyond my control…
January 31st, 2006 at 5:58 pmFor those of you morally superior enough to have the extra $$$ to stash away for HSA’s-wonderful, good for you. You no doubt could have afforded health care no matter what. “Barb”, “Unbelievable” and the rest of us “imaginary little people” are just supposed to go onto welfare and crawl under a rock to die. Don’t we all get it yet? Silly things…hehehe.
If you are only paying $80 a month in premiums, Matt, I assume there is little or no “premium pass through” and that you are doing most of the contribution to the HSA out of your discretionary dollars. Granted you receive a tax benefit on those dollars, you are still faced with a large deductible before your HDHP kicks in, in addition to both the premium costs and the funding of the HSA. If you are confronted with significant healthcare costs, you can and probably will deplete your HSA rapidly.
I think it is a very serious error in judgement to think of HSAs as some sort of savings account.
January 31st, 2006 at 6:47 pmI think I will start my own company offering low interest loans to people that know they need a medical procedure and they will still be better off than having insurance b/c at least it is for a real problem rather than a threat of one. Maybe I can even get the Gov to give people tax breaks on the interest.
Although I welcome input, please don’t reply to just tear that idea apart. I really want to hear from anyone that has an idea that won’t stop capitalism but helps people out as well.
Comment by barb — January 31, 2006 @ 5:58 pm
Well, as you know, Corporate America owns this country. They own our politicians, our industries, our media and all the things we consume. Unfortunately what they think becomes what we get.
The way to fight that is by using their laws against them. If you become a business owner, you can use their laws to the advantage of your business, and ultimately your customers. There are all kinds of loans and grants to women owners (I took a class a few years ago when I was tired of beating my heard against the glass ceiling) and learned that the way to beat the game is by playing the game, and instead of putting the profits in your own pocket, you put them into the pockets of your customers. Community profit-sharing so to speak. And if you start a non-profit the financial acrobatics are even more spectacular.
I think it’s an excellent idea to start a medical non-profit that finds ways to pay for or loan cheaply, money to those in need. Or start a company that insures many people by pooling resources. Or, finding people who are willing to live in a community where services and products are bartered rather than paid for with money - so everyone is equally valued for their service and goods (my ideal).
The problem I seem to be finding are enough people who are, when faced with money, able to maintain an indifference to it. We have been, after all, culturally indocrinated to be consumers, And consumers need money to fund the addiction… That part, I don’t know how to battle yet. But am like you, looking to find others to brain storm ideas until we can solve the riddle and detach ourselves from the unpleasant matrix that capitalism has built.
And I do welcome criticism, as I would rather see it on paper than in the financial reports :).
January 31st, 2006 at 7:35 pmForget about the insufficiently high marginal tax rates for middle- and low-income taxpayers. They don’t have enough income - actual cash - to make use of HSAs. HSAs, as conceived by the Bush Administration, give people who already have insurance and access to health care still more health care even as millions go without. At the end of the day, none of this debate has anything whatsoever to do with ensuring access to quality health care for Americans. The way to accomplish that goal, efficiently and effectively, is clear and well-tested across the globe: universal single-payer health care paid for by federal tax dollars. HSAs and the perfectly idiotic Bush Medicare drug plan have little to do with health care and much to do with using tax dollars to support record-breaking profits for big pharma and HMOs.
January 31st, 2006 at 9:32 pmHSAs will suck basically healthy people out of the comprehensive health care system, leaving only the chronically ill. Take me, as an example. I have arthritis, and require medications that cost in excess of $2500 a month just so that I can move. An HSA would not change my healthcare comsumption at all, as I would consistently blow through any annual deductible in a month or two. The only people who would realize any accumulation year over year are people whose costs are less than the amount they are allowed to put aside — the young and healthy. This is just an attempt to remove health coverage as a collective responsibility of a civilized society and put the risk on the individual.
January 31st, 2006 at 9:42 pmABOUT THE ONLY FACT IN THIS ARTICLE IS THE FACT THAT THE AUTHOR KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT HEALTH INSURANCE, ESPECIALLY HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNT PLANS. I THINK IF BUSH SAID FREE HEALTH INSURANCE FOR EVERYONE-DEMOCRATS WOULD HAVE SOMETHING TO CRITICIZE. UNLIKE EVERY OTHER CRITIC ON THIS POST, I SELL INSURANCE AND DEAL WITH HEALTHCARE EVERY DAY. JUST ABOUT EVERY SO-CALLED FACT IS THE DIRECT OPPOSITE OF WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN THE MARKET.
February 1st, 2006 at 7:48 amJames, you are correct….these democrats deal in fearmongering. They want a scared class of people, because that keeps them in power. HSA’s are wonderful, I am glad I was able to opt out of the traditional system and control my own destiny.
February 1st, 2006 at 9:48 amYou are so far out of touch with what we hispanics are wanting from our leaders that you are running us away from the democratic party and to the republicans. wake up we don’t want welfare!!!
February 3rd, 2006 at 2:43 pmHSA will change the face of health care just as in the beginning of the 1980s HMOs changed health care. The U.S. already has social medical care - its called Medicare and Medicaid. I believe it is high time that the Major health insurance companies face the demise of their monopoly on health care and are forced to decrease their cost of health care. HSA will not only save you money, it just might save your life.
February 7th, 2006 at 11:55 pmI am wondering if James can answer a question for me since he is an insurance professional.
I make $40,000 per year. I’m married with 2 young children. I have Blue Cross through my employer which costs $50 per week for a family plan. I have high blood pressure and high cholesterol despite diet and regular exercise. It takes two medications to control my blood pressure. My wife is disabled with bi-polar disorder. She has been in a psychiatric hospital 5 times due to suicidal behavior. She is now stable but takes 6 medications to maintain. By that I mean not break down and hurt herself. My total monthly co-pay for meds is $155. Doctor visits cost ~ $80 per month. Also my wife is not from the US and did not get her full 40 quarters in to be eligible for SSDI.
February 8th, 2006 at 8:01 pmMy employer is looking into “high deductible†insurance coupled with an HSA. Will my family be better off, in the same boat, or out in the street?
Good question Dan considering you and your wife appear to be very high utilizers and I can see how this change would concern you greatly. It really depends on the carrier your employer is going with and the contribution they are going to put into the plan. If your employer stays with BCBS and contributes the difference between the traditional PPO and the HSA plan into your HSA account, you will most likely be far better off under the HSA plan. BCBS has some great rate reductions (up to 45-50%) to switch to the HSA plan. The deductible is normally $5,000 but if your employer contributes the difference into an HSA, your employer should be contributing over $4,000 into the account, assuming you contributing the difference in your contribution between the 2 plans into your HSA as well.
I intially thought only the healthy would benefit from an HSA plan but that is incorrect. I am not saying that every high utilizer of medical insurance will benefit, but if you take the time to do some homework, you may very well find it is a better plan for you.
My employer gave an HSA option last year and it is the best plan I have ever had. My family has been able to direct the HSA dollars towards bills that would not traditionally be covered by medical insurance, such as dental bills and vision related bills. We are not with Blue Cross yet and the discounts are not as high as Blue Cross but the plan we have is still a good one.
February 10th, 2006 at 10:18 amAs a small business owner I can tell you that we are the most highly taxed people in the country. The HSA is one of the very few government programs that actually seems to benefit small businesses. (Probably an accident - I’m sure they’ll “fix” that.) I’m all for the HSAs. My hugely inflated health care premiums (and those of other small businesses) have been subsidizing large portions of the population for a long time. Its nice to get a bit of a breather. Will I be as optimistic a year from now? Who knows - ask me then.
March 2nd, 2006 at 12:20 am[…] Think Progress The Truth About Health Savings AccountsThe Truth About Health Savings Accounts President Bush will use tomorrow s State of the Union address to promote health savings accounts as a solution to America s health care […]
March 4th, 2006 at 1:15 pmHI, I am a 49 health man, no health problems. My cholesterol is 170, no high blood pressure……I am very active, manage a ranch in Montana……..try to eat healthy……organic foods, wild game etc.
My question…I am looking at individual Health plan with John Alden Company…High Deductible..$5000.00, premium at $172.00 per month. I am strapped for money so don’t want to pay much more. So I thought the HSA would MAYBE work for me. Question is I can choose the Trustee Company to hold the Account……WHO is GOOD? Who will offer the Greatest Return? Meaning Best Interest Rate?
John Alden is offering 3% on minimun bal. of $5000.00, which I don’t know if I can reach…..5 years maybe, and 2% interest on at least $750.00 Minimum. Or am I better to invest in some other account? Mutual fund? I can not afford alot. Should I just drop my Health Insurance? Just save for a rainy day…..wish I had done that years ago, but now being 49 who knows, hate to lose my house. The ranch does not offer any health care, plus I am an artist……Painter from which I make other income. so I am also self employed and employed..HAAHHAAH!
I don’t want abunch of gibbish please….JUST the Facts. I made my choices in Life, not going after a real profession career where health care was provided. I chose where I am.
Sorry for those of you who do have serious HEALTH PROBLEMS! I am close friends that do! I have been blessed so far!
If anyone does have some suggestions on good companies, low fees and high return?. Seems like so many have POPPED UP. Yeah INSURANCE Companies…..Money to be made.
As for politics HAHAHA! I have always been a conservative Demo….not a socialist, or comi……or right wing NRA ( even though I am a COWBOY, gun carrying) , consider myself middle…….but how come Bin Laden is still out there, he confessed to the crime? Why are we in Iraq? In the past three years we have spent the health of your country’s future on fear! AND we didn’t finish the job we started….meaning Bin Laden….. billions of dollars each day….month….. on WHAT? Not Health CARE Reform?
All my best to All
April 8th, 2006 at 12:50 pmSincerely Bob
The problem with health care costs is itself INSURANCE. Insurance is a pool of socialism floating in a sea of capitalism. It keeps people from knowing the full price of service. If they don’t know the price, they don’t question the COST. Health care providers take advantage of this fact by charging large amounts for silly things like band-aids and aspirin. Haven’t you seen those medicare scooter commercials? They tell the elderly that all they need to do is give them their medicare info and they’ll take care of the rest. Those customers don’t care that they just purchased a $200 scooter for $30K! Us taxpayers have to fork over the cash to pay for it too.
The United States is one of the few mostly capitalist countries in the world. Most other countries are either socialist or dictatorship. If you think socialism is so good, move to one of those many countries! Nobody is stopping you! What innovation comes from countries like France? How many good drugs come from France as compared to the US? What is the unemployment rate in France right now compared to the US? Hating conservatives or Bush doesn’t solve problems. Socialism just causes people to become dependent on the government. They become slaves to the State. Socialism lowers the standard of living for most people and doesn’t allow for economic mobility. Capitalism and competition allow for economic mobility. It is competition that brings prices down, not socialism.
April 11th, 2006 at 5:54 pmI’m tired of the liberal whiners on this board — most of their informtion is innacurate. Want to live in Erurops and have a single-payer health care system? Go! You’ll have to wait over 400 days for a hip replacement and you may die of your prostate cancer before seeing a specialist. Get a clue — England, Sweden, France and Canada are allowing their people to supplement their “free” health care (which causes them to be taxed in the 60 percentile, on average) with private insurance.
Capitalis is great - - it spurs innovation in health care. Who do you think discovers most of the new drugs, developments new diagnostic equipment and procedures? Not the government-funded health care countries. - -Nope, it’s the good old USA!
Do some studying before going off on knee-jerk liberal whining.
Most of the uninsured in this country are illegals - - are we supposed to put Americans at the end of the line to take care of people who’ve broken into our country? Not to my line of thinking.
Health care will be more transparent and people will be able to negotiate health care costs. Physicians will offer lower costs in order to avoid the beaucratic nightmare of dealing with hundreds of insurance companies.
Health care is expensive but it doesn’t mean it should be automatically free - - in that case, houses and cars should be free. But what is “free”? Who pays for “free” the taxpayer, that’s who.
If you’re a believe in “from each according to his ability to each according to his needs”, then all you have are a bunch of people sitting on their butts waiting for their handouts. Look how well it worked for the FORMER Soviet Union and Eastern Europe.
Socialism in any form doesn’t work because people don’t value what they get for free.
Wake up peopel!
May 6th, 2006 at 9:30 pm[…] Think Progress The Truth About Health Savings Accounts Generally speaking, they are tax-free savings accounts combined with I have a Health Savings Account and a high deductible health insurance policy. […]
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:55 pmGive me a break.
1) The comment about HSAs being like gambling. Hello? ALL INSURANCE is like gambling. You determine whether or not to have it, which company to go with, which coverages to get, what sort of premium to have, etc. all UNKNOWN factors that you PICK from based on your ASSUMPTIONS and/or HISTORY. An HSA OPTION is just that, another OPTION to PICK from.
2) I have an HSA account with a solid insurance policy. Bottom line, the MOST I am out-of-pocket per annum is 4200. If you have a nice TYPICAL PPO plan, you will pay $15-$30 to see the Docotor, $5-$75 (avg.) for prescriptions… this is the nice part… then assume a year with hospital stay or surgery… take a look at your max out of pocket on your nice little $1,500. per person 80/20 coverage plan that costs you a solid percentage MORE than a comparable HSA plan and suddenly, you’re on the wrong end. Are there scenarios where you come out better without an HSA? OF COURSE. Are there scenarios where you come out better with one? OF COURSE! And either scenario is just as likely for the majority of people. If you have a history or a reason to project a certain future of expected care/expenses, then you adjust according and make a decision.
It is absolutely asinine to put down HSAs, in general, as poor options. My HSA fits me and my family perfectly and has saved us hundreds of dollars THIS year. I love the idea that I can pay for my glasses, contact lens solution, massages, etc. out of my HSA and that I know I am never going to be more than 4200 out-of-pocket besides my LOW (comparatively) premium.
Joe Am
June 30th, 2006 at 2:31 pmGo to kagen4congress.com to become informed about a plan that may work.
July 21st, 2006 at 6:13 pmSteve Kagen is running for congress here in Wis. His plan sounds like the best one out there.
[…] Mark Green has spent the last number of years in Congress and they have failed to provide any solutions to our current health care crisis. His only stated idea has been the old recycled “Health Savings Accounts†which have been proven over and over as being bad policy generally benefiting the rich. […]
August 16th, 2006 at 1:04 pmThese are the most uninformed comments about HSA’s I’ve seen anywhere. First, you never lose the balance in the HSA, I carry full coverage insurance for myself and 2 college children that is $342 per month. My deductible is $5,000 each/$10,000 family max! 100% coverage after meeting deductible. A “medical crisis non-insurance rider” costing $25/month pays $5000 lump sum for any “catastrophic” diagnosis/injury/emergency. So the regular stuff we pay out of pocket. We’re pretty healthy, non-smokers, non-drinkers, fit, and we spend our ‘health dollars’ for regular Chiropractic adjustments, supplements and healthy food. My insurance premiums are 60% less than non HSA $500/$1000 plans cost. In three years I have just over $14,000 in an HSA earning 5% interest. I was uninsured for the previous 12 years and spent about $9,000 out of pocket total, never got a dime from anyone and earned $12,000- $18,000/year. My income has grown to over $150,000/year and for someone who is as frugal as I had to be, HSA’s are a great deal for me, self-employed, healthy people, saving for a future. We never ran to the doctor for every sniffle, and did not engage in risky behaviors I didn’t see the point of $700+ premium, greatly subsidizing other less responsible individuals. If you’re healthy and responsible, an HSA is a great opportunity to save some money, also, many items not covered by insurance can be paid for with pre-tax money per IRS rules. In any tax bracket that can be a big savings. And the more you earn, the more you save! Works for me!
August 18th, 2006 at 12:39 pmIf I had a job that offered health insurance, I wouldn’t get the health savings account. But I teach at an after school program in Richmond, CA, that can’t afford to give me health insurance. My only choice is to enroll in a high-deductible program because that’s all I can afford. The question is should I enroll in a high deductible program with a low premium that is attached to an HSA. Or should I enroll in a high deductible program with a high premium that this not attached to an HSA? I know HSAs are bad for the country in the long run. But in the short run, I need to go to the doctor and have no choice.
November 17th, 2006 at 12:23 pmWe really need a prosecutor to take a stand and crimnially indicte the Bush and Cheney gang. These illiegal wiretaps took place all over the country and involved tens of thousands of innocent victims. Surely there is at least one prosecutor in this country willing to do the right thing and stand up to the Bush/Cheney healots.
November 20th, 2006 at 6:24 amcan someone tell me if i have this hsa thing right. i am self employed witha n s corp. 4 employees. according to my ins provider my premium will go down about $200 per month if i enroll in the hdhp and open an hsa.
first i buy a high deductible insurance plan.
second i choose a vendor to administer my hsa .
third i contribute the amount of the deuctible at least or can i contribute more?
if i do not spen the money in any given year where does the money go? does it stay in the hsa. at what point can i use the money for things other than health cost if at all?
is the money i contribute beofre tax or just a deduction for me? how about my employees?
i have tried to resolve all these questions my self but too many conflicting answers?
can someone give me the truth?
December 4th, 2006 at 6:26 pmfeel free to respond to my email on my questions posted above. rosebgolf@aol.com
December 4th, 2006 at 6:31 pmHELLO
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