Woodruff’s Courage Reveals Major Deficiency In Development of Iraqi Security Forces
Woodruff’s Courage Reveals Major Deficiency In Development of Iraqi Security Forces
Yesterday, we learned ABC News anchorman Bob Woodruff and cameraman Doug Vogt were seriously injured by an improvised explosive device while traveling in Iraq. Woodruff, at the time of the attack, was riding with an Iraqi army unit:
The Iraqi mechanized vehicle they were riding in is considered more dangerous than U.S. vehicles. ABC said the two were traveling that way to get the perspective of the Iraqi military.
The attack underscores the fact that Iraqi security forces have not been properly-equipped to take on the insurgency, a continuing problem that remains a major stumbling block in the Bush exit strategy. President Bush has stated, “Victory will come when the Iraqi security forces can provide for the safety of their own citizens.†And he has assured the American public that we are “building up the Iraqi security forces so they can increasingly lead the fight to secure their country.†But the facts belie his rhetoric.
The Washington Times reported recently:
The emerging Iraqi army is in dire need of more armored vehicles, an issue largely lost in the two-year debate over U.S. soldiers and Marines who at one time lacked protective gear. … “One of the main things is they don’t have much armor at all,” said retired Coast Guard officer Michael Kearney, a defense contractor who is working to bolster the force. “Their people are running around in pickup trucks, and they are getting nailed.”
CBS correspondent Lara Logan traveled to Iraq in late November and interviewed members of the Iraqi security forces to find that the terrorists were better-equipped than the security forces:
LOGAN: Is it fair to say that the terrorists are better armed than you?
BRIG. GEN. AMIR AL-DULAIMI: Yes, of course. [CBS Evening News, 11/30/05]
Thanks to courageous journalists like Woodruff, the American public is able to learn the reality of the situation on the ground, a perspective they do not hear frequently from the administration. Our thoughts and prayers are with Woodruff, Vogt, and their respective families.
UPDATE:
Here’s what ABC World News Tonight reported last night:
The U.S. military has had to adapt its tactics. So-called “hillbilly armor,” improvised by kevlar vests in some cases, shores up their achilles’ heel. But Iraqi soldiers are among the most vulnerable because in general the vehicles they drive are not armored. This weekend, we spent time with Iraqi troops north of Baghdad, not far from where today’s attack took place. They said they often feel like sitting ducks. [Iraqi soldier:] “The other day a bomb hit our vehicle,” he told me. “If we’d been in a U.S. humvee, you wouldn’t see much damage. But check out that car [Iraqi pick-up truck], it’s totally destroyed.”
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Well, if the Iraqi security forces were properly trained and equipped we could just pull out of there and leave all that oil to the Iraqi people, couldn’t we?
January 30th, 2006 at 10:57 amWoodruff just got a real wake up call. I’m sorry he got hurt,but now I bet he’ll report the truth what is really going on.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:58 amNot so off-topic…
From Today’s NYTimes:
QUOTATION OF THE DAY
“I’ve asked why nobody saw it coming. It does say something about us not having a good enough pulse. ”
January 30th, 2006 at 11:03 amCONDOLEEZZA RICE, on Hamas’s victory in Palestinian elections.
Talk radio (can’t remember if it was Glenn Beck or the local Pittsburgh nutbag jingo Jim Quinn) is wondering out loud if ABC failed to provide its people with “decent body armor,” or if Woodruff and Vogt violated military SOP by “standing too high in the turret” or some such idiocy.
Which is to say: Watch for the wingers to assert that these two “MSM pawns” brought this on themselves.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:06 amSorry Bob Woodruff and his crewman got wounded. It was a stupid idea on his part get into the lead vehicle, let alone an Iraqi vehicle.
But can you imagine Ted Koppel, Dan Rather, Peter Jennings, and all the other reporters during Vietman reporting done from the battlefield doing what Woodruff did? “Hey guys, Let me take point! I want to know what it is like!” These guys were in the front lines, under attacks, but never so stupid as be “on Point”.
The reporters need to report, not grandstand for news ratings.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:07 ami take exception to the bumptious cliche “our thoughts and prayers”? pray if you like faiz, but who is this “our” who is praying, is everyone at TP a superstitious believer in God? people bellyache about Intelligent Design and the White House courting of religious nutcases, and Pat Robertson’s pronouncements, but the moment anything bad happens, out comes a bunch of “it’s a miracle” or “our prayers are with them.” religious sentiments continually pollute political discourse in this country.
some of us exercise our freedom FROM religion. some of us don’t pray.
my thoughts are now turning back to the sad fate that has befallen Bob Woodruff, the people of Iraq, and the people of America – rule by the House of Bush
January 30th, 2006 at 11:09 am#3 Why would anyone be surprised that Condi had no idea? Add that to the long list of things she had no idea about…
January 30th, 2006 at 11:10 amABC news, in my opinion, has gone out of its way to lick the Bush administration’s shoes and report all the wonderful things that are happening in Iraq. That’s fine, as long as its balanced by the truth that the country is a ticking time bomb, in ruins, the insurgency has popular support, there’s a budding civil war and democracy can’t be fostered at the point of a gun. Perhaps this very somber event will bring about some realistic perspective.
Iraq was the most critical foriegn policy blunder in American history and the hubristic warmongers in the Bush admin and civilian DoD are looking at Iran? Good Lord.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:13 am“Thanks to courageous journalists like Woodruff, the American public is able to learn the reality of the situation on the ground, a perspective they do not hear frequently from the administration”
I wonder if Woodruff and CBS will ever mistake a “militant” and a “freedom fighter” for a terrorist again?
January 30th, 2006 at 11:21 am#7 – I suspect the things Condi is not aware of would fill a big, fat book.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:21 amYes Rumsfeld is giving crappy equipment to the Iraqi stooge army! He does not give proper body armour to our own forces, so why be surprised?
January 30th, 2006 at 11:23 amAmen Jim T.
I laugh when Iraq war defenders say it wasn’t about oil. What world do these people live in. The 16 permanent bases, the protection of the oil ministry while all else was looted, the PNAC mission statement, and Cheney “closed door” energy policy meetings (the ones that Scalia was the swing vote in keeping secret from FOIA requests…), etc. We know the Big Oil players had blueprints on Iraqi oilfields. Arrgghhh, I can’t get started or I’ll blow a gasket.
War criminals. It’s all I can say.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:23 am#9 is right. . . you don’t build a new house and say you plan to spend the night! Look at the actions, not the words. There has never been any intent to leave. Everyone had a cow with Clinton’s “It depends on what the definition of is. . .is.” Well, we should be asking what is bush’s definition of “provide for the safty of it’s own citizens” means? How does it look, how does it feel, how do we measure it? As long as there is one terrorist suspect in Iraq, we will stay. But, only bush will claim to have the knowledge to decide. This group of profit takers is smiling all the way to the bank.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:26 am“The attack underscores the fact that Iraqi security forces have not been properly-equipped to take on the insurgency,”
The attack, like all the IED attacks underscore the fact that coalition forces have been denied the option of taking out the Sunni strongholds where the attacks are planned and provisioned. We should have leveled Falujia two years ago. When the Iraqi army is capable to do it they will and won’t pay attention to the seething and whining that will come from the Filthy Left for all the “innocents” that die in the attack.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:29 amyes poster 13 the Iraqi invasion was/is for Petroleum, but we are NOT supposed to mention it! Bush propaganda tells us it was done to promote democracy in Iraq > lol.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:29 amI-R-I spews the GOP mantra > US forces must wipe-out the total population of Iraq to win > lol. When everbody is dead in Iraq it will make it easier to steal the oil!
January 30th, 2006 at 11:33 am# 3 – Islamic militancy is spreading via democratic elections. Look at Egypt, where the Moslem Brotherhood took a large share of votes, look at Iraq, and with Hamas, why was it so “unexpected” that they would win so many votes? Hamas for a long time has been asserting itself on the local level with social service programs, and these results show the population was fed up with the rampant corruption of the PA and wanted change. Based on the wave of popularity of Islamic parties why was this such asurprise? Boggles the mind to think how not perceptive and out-of-reality Rice et al are.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:35 amThe wingnut follow-up question to our correct assertion that it’s about the oil (in a larger geopolitical/global power sense..or course) is this: Then why aren’t we benefitting at the pump?
To this I say two things.
1. If you’ve been paying attention you know that on an almost weekly basis, insurgents were blowing up large chunks of the oil pipeline system in Iraq. They can’t get extraction/distribution up to pre-war levels because of it (oh yeah..and there’s some kind of a minor military skirmish going on in the background..)
2. Who’s benefitting from these high gas prices?
So even if they could ramp up extraction/distribution/production, we wouldn’t feel the relief due who’s regulating the price of gas.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:38 amLook, they’re afraid that any armored vehicles we give the Iraqi army will wind up in the hands of the insurgents (since we don’t know how many Iraqi soldiers are actually guerrilla infiltrators). Which means we don’t want to really arm the Iraqis, even though they’ll never be ready to “stand up” until we do. Just one of the Catch 22s in our little quagmire over there.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:38 amHow can this be possible? The insurgency is in its last throes. Are you disagreeing with Mr Cheney, IRI? You must be treasonous.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:39 amHave fun with this thread > bash the Bush lovers!
Iraq is about OIL > always has been, but Bush will mention democracy blooming in Iraq tomorrow night > lol.
Keep up the truth in here Jay!
January 30th, 2006 at 11:42 amRight on Red. That’s the guts of it — we don’t want to arm them because we don’t trust them. So how are we ever going to win? and isn’t our distrust transparent to Iraqis?
January 30th, 2006 at 11:44 am#23, democracy may be blooming in Palestine and Egypt too – think that will get a mention?
January 30th, 2006 at 11:44 amCasualties? What casualties? We don’t need no stinking casualties.
When you use an army to invade a foreign land, expect somebody to fight back.
That’s the way it works in the real world. You don’t make those realities.
All is fair in love and war. I can’t generate any sympathy for a group of incompetent politicians who haven’t a clue as to what will happen when the army they have is used for economic reasons. When you kick a man when he’s down, expect to get kicked back.
US leaders have willfully miscarried and misconducted themselves. They will probably pay the price to great to bear. They have made their beds; they can sleep in them. Paybacks are a bitch.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:48 amJay R. #22,
I’ll try, truth is our best weapon. Lies are their most frequently used weapon.
OT, sounds like this filibuster thing might be on. Keep an eye on the 4:30EST cloture vote….
January 30th, 2006 at 11:49 am‘too great to bear’
When will they ever learn? It’s a lesson too late for the learning.
It will get worse.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:50 amThis story is a nice spin on the facts. The Iraqi security forces are not armed as well as U.S. Forces, but that is not to say that they are not well armed. That quote from the Iraqi general is taken completely out of context. The fact that Woodward got injured while in an Iraqi vehicle is irrelevant. He was riding in an open air hatch! All the armor in the world would not have helped him. Besides, some the I.E.D.s the terrorists are using are large enough to disable and possibly destroy Bradley Fighting Vehicles. The Iraqi security forces are coming along nicely, in the opinion of some of my freinds in the Army who are actually over there TRAINING AND LEADING them. Give the Iraqis a little credit. I don’t see any mass formations of terrorists attempting to take over cities and towns, do you? All they can do is contiue to enlist suicide bombers and explode roadside bombs. That is all the cowards are good for.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:55 amI don’t see any mass formations of terrorists attempting to take over cities and towns, do you?
They’re already controlled by the world’s most dangerous terrorist, the one in the White House.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:08 pm#4 Body armor will never protect the user from explosions. The limbs are always at risk. Whomever made the comments you refer to either does not understand the body armor concept or does not care. I suspect they do not care and only want to turn the issue on one side for political fodder. What the jackass does not understand or does not care is that ABC News is a private enterprise sending people over there voluntarily and yes they have an obligation to protect their employees, but they owe no explanation to the American people, because the American people are not at risk when ABC suffers losses. Our soldiers on the other hand are being sent to the war zone by the government. This government has an obligation to send them fully equipped with whatever they feel is the best equipment available. If some troops get the equipment and some do not then there is a problem. The radio douchebag needs to reconsider his comments.
#15 level an entire city for the sake of a couple of hundred inhabitants, way to win the hearts and minds. Innocents in quotes, nice. So everybody in Falluja is a guilty party? Everyone in Afghanistan was guilty every one in Iraq was guilty. SO why do we even bother to work with the survivors then?
#19 Who is benefiting? Did you see Exxon’s earnings release?
#26 truth is our best weapon? Lies and half truths seem to be working really well for the Republican Party and the administration.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:09 pmThe insurgents understand why we invaded,
why we used troops to protect the oil ministry instead of using those same troops to guard the enormous amounts of unprotected Iraqi ammunition dumps,(but the insurgents do thank donald rumsfeld.),
they know that we are trying to ramp up the oil production and are fighting that,
However what is not so easily known by the insurgents was one of the REAL reasons that Cheny wanted to take out Sadam.
In 2000 Sadam changed they way he sold oil.
Sadam started to use the euro as the base currency and all his contracts were written as such.
One of L. Paul Bremers acts after he became the overseer of Iraq was to suspend all contracts and realign the price of Iraqi oil with the dollar and to require any contract that is written be in dollars and binding for 40 years, which by the way is about when there won’t be enough oil in Iraq or much any other place on this planet to worry about.
So Bush’s “mission acomplished” banner was more about the control that NYMEX and LPE now exerts over the Iraqi oil in their markets than the completion of any military actions.
The fact that they had to totally destabilise a country and throw the entire region into chaos was OK, because to them the ends always justify the means.
The fact that terrorists now go from Afganistan to Iraq to train for their “war on infedials” is telling.
The idea that the majority party of Iraq the Shia might align itself with Iran never entered their heads because Chalibi was going to rule for Cheny-haliburtin.
Now we want to do to Iran what we did to Iraq? Why?
Well Iran is planning to open a competetor to NYMEX and LPE and to price their oil in euros, thus Bushco et al are attempting to replay history
January 30th, 2006 at 12:24 pm#15 level an entire city for the sake of a couple of hundred inhabitants, way to win the hearts and minds. Innocents in quotes, nice. So everybody in Falluja is a guilty party?
Comment by Mark
There are more than a few hundred whacked out Sunni/Wahabbi killers who just happen to be Ba’thists as well in that town. In addition the wives and the children are with the killers 100%. When you go after the vipers you have to destroy the entire nest. The Iraqi army will take care of it and they’ll laugh as they bayonet the babies. That’s just the way they are.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:25 pmNow we want to do to Iran what we did to Iraq? Why?
Comment by Clif
For oil of course. Wadareya stupid?
January 30th, 2006 at 12:26 pmIRI is a BRILLIANT military strategist!
Move over, Sun T’zu!
January 30th, 2006 at 12:27 pmWell, oil and natural gas…but you get the idea.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:30 pmTHE IRAQI SECURITY FORCES WILL BE IN CONTROL OF AS MUCH AS HALF OF IRAQ BY THE END OF 2006
FORT BRAGG, N.C. — The former commander of coalition ground troops in Iraq said Thursday he believes that by the end of the year, Iraqi forces will be in control of as much as half the country.
“What’s going on in Iraq is a brutal, bloody struggle,” said Lt. Gen. John R. Vines, who until last week was head of the Multi-National Corps Iraq, making him the second highest ranking general in the country. “The tide is turning, and we’re beginning to win.”
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1495444.php
THE IRAQI SECURITY FORCES WILL BE IN CONTROL OF THE MAJORITY OF IRAQ BY THE END OF 2004
Q: Well, I guess the bottom line is will Iraqi security forces — when will you have enough trained and equipped Iraqi security forces to take over the local control that we’ve talked about in Iraq to achieve their goal of getting the insurgents out of this mess? Will it be by December? Will it be by the elections in January?
GEN SHARP: Gen. Casey has taken a look at the plan to what we believe the equipment delivery will be and the training schedule. And he believes that, based upon that, he will be able to be at what his definition of local control is for the majority of the country, not the entire part of the country. There’s going to be areas out there that we’re not going to be able to get the local control by the end of December [2004].
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2004/tr20040920-1322.html
January 30th, 2006 at 12:35 pmWe will never get the oil, sorry to tell you this but Iraqi oil production is way down from prewar levels, so If we do to Oran what we did to Iraq, the worlds supply of oil will definitely fall short of demand ….I-R-I can you say $7-10 gasoline or are you too stupid to understand that, because the insergents in Iran will not let us have their oil anymore than the insurgents are right now.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:37 pmOT
IRI:
From this past Sunday’s New York Times within a really informative piece on Hati and the ‘democracy-pushers’ effet there:
January 30th, 2006 at 12:38 pm
So much for the radio hosts comments… And to the guy who says his friends are over there training and leading the Iraqi’s. My friend who just returned home never trusted his charges, ever and would never go out with them without maximum assurances that he would be protected (usually by going with US forces and the US troops sticking together. He didn’t trust them because they run easily and he never was sure of their loyalties.
Body Armor Likely Saved ABC News Pair By DAVID BAUDER, AP Television Writer
IRI reminds me of Thodoric of York, only without the humor.
1 hour, 44 minutes ago
ABC News anchor Bob Woodruff, seriously hurt by a roadside bomb in Iraq, has shown signs of improvement and may be airlifted to the United States as soon as Tuesday, the network’s news president said Monday.
A hospital official said body armor likely saved the journalist’s life.
Cameraman Doug Vogt, also hurt in the explosion, is in better shape than Woodruff but doctors were pleased with how both handled the transfer to a U.S. military base in Germany, said ABC News President David Westin.
“We have a long way to go,” Westin said. “But it appears that we may have also come some distance from yesterday.”
Vogt was filming a stand-up report with Woodruff and both were standing in the open hatch of an Iraqi military vehicle when the bomb went off. They underwent surgery in Iraq before being flown to Germany.
“They’re both very seriously injured, but stable,” said Col. Bryan Gamble, commander of the Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in western Germany. He said both men were heavily sedated and under the care of the hospital’s trauma team.
Their body armor likely saved them, “otherwise these would have been fatal wounds,” Gamble said.
Woodruff, the new co-anchor of “World News Tonight,” had serious head wounds and broken bones, and Vogt also suffered head injuries, ABC News said. The network said the mens’ wives were at the hospital and talking with doctors Monday.
Former “NBC Nightly News” anchor Tom Brokaw said Monday that he had spoken with Woodruff’s wife, Lee.
“The doctors had told them once they arrived that the brain swelling had gone down. In Bob’s case, that had been a big concern. Yesterday they had to operate and remove part of the skull cap to relieve some of the swelling,” Brokaw said on NBC’S “Today” show.
The doctors didn’t know for sure whether shrapnel penetrated Woodruff’s brain, but they were removing additional shrapnel from his neck area, Brokaw said. He said Woodruff’s family had also learned more details about the explosion from witnesses.
“Immediately after the explosion he turned to his producer and said ‘Am I alive?’ and ‘Don’t tell Lee,’ and then he began to cry out in excruciating pain,” Brokaw said.
Woodruff and Vogt, an award-winning cameraman, were embedded with the 4th Infantry Division and traveling in a convoy with U.S. and Iraqi troops near Taji, about 12 miles north of Baghdad when the device exploded. An Iraqi solder also was hurt.
“Doug was conscious, and I was able to reassure him we were getting them care. I spoke to Bob also and walked with them to the helicopter,” said ABC senior producer Kate Felsen, who had been working with Woodruff for the past two weeks.
The injuries were a blow to ABC News, still recovering from the cancer death of Peter Jennings in August. Woodruff and co-anchor Elizabeth Vargas assumed Jennings’ old job at “World News Tonight” earlier this month.
“Bob and Doug were in Iraq doing what reporters do, trying to find out what’s happening there up-close and firsthand. All of us are mindful of the risks and the dangers,” Vargas said Sunday night in a closing note.
Woodruff and Vogt had been riding in the Iraqi military vehicle, considered more dangerous than U.S. military vehicles, so they could report on the war from the Iraqi soldiers’ perspective.
Westin, speaking Monday on “Good Morning America,” said the risks news personnel face are assessed every day in a country where there were 221 attacks by explosive devices last week alone. But it’s important to cover the news, he said.
“We all know there are substantial risks,” Westin said. “At the same time, what we do is report the news. We report the stories such as Iraq, and it’s a dilemma we struggle with all along because frankly, we don’t get to report as much in Iraq as we’d like to because of security.”
Woodruff, 44, a father of four, has been at ABC News since 1996. He grew up in Michigan and became a corporate lawyer in New York, but changed fields soon after a stint teaching law in Beijing, where he helping CBS News during the chaos of the 1989 Tiananmen Square protest.
Vogt, 46, is a three-time Emmy award-winning cameraman from Canada who has spent the last 20 years based in Europe covering global events for CBC, BBC and now exclusively for ABC News. He lives in Aix-en-Provence, France.
“He’s the cameraman we all request when we go to the field because he’s so good, a fantastic eye,” said ABC News’ Jim Sciutto, who is covering the war in Iraq.
On CBS’ “Face the Nation” Sunday, anchor Bob Schieffer abandoned his commentary to wish Woodruff and Vogt well.
“It just hit us all like a lightning bolt because we’ve all been there,” Schieffer later told The Associated Press.
Dozens of journalists have been injured, killed or kidnapped in Iraq since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion that toppled Saddam Hussein.
Jill Carroll, a freelance reporter for The Christian Science Monitor, was kidnapped Jan. 7 by gunmen who threatened to kill her if the U.S. didn’t release Iraqi women in custody. She was among 250 foreigners who had been taken captive in the country since the U.S. invasion; at least 39 of those foreigners were killed. Carroll is still believed to be held in Iraq.
___
January 30th, 2006 at 12:39 pmhttp://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/29/international/americas/29haiti.html?th&emc=th
January 30th, 2006 at 12:39 pmSorry if the message comes across 2x, first was “flagged as spam”
#18 Violetblu…exactly, be careful what you wish for…this admin wanted to spread democracy, and now that its spread- US enemies are being voted in by the people
Back on topic:
January 30th, 2006 at 12:52 pmIf we do not provide the Iraqi forces with what they need, someone else may (i.e. Russia, Iran or CHINA) and turn them against the US….scary stuff
Bushllit given what we are doing everyday to the citizens of Iraq the russian and chinese have their work already done by us. I guess you could say they “uotsourced” the job to us.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:56 pmas long as we “stay the course”
January 30th, 2006 at 12:57 pmIRI,
The Iraqi army will take care of it and they’ll laugh as they bayonet the babies. That’s just the way they are.
Is this what our troops are giving their lives for?
January 30th, 2006 at 12:57 pm#44, I-R-I yet again proves that he is a genocidal maniac.
January 30th, 2006 at 1:09 pm#43 there is no course
January 30th, 2006 at 1:11 pmmay I be heard?
As a Viet Nam veteran (USMC)I can recall a time when as we were walking a mine sweep there, off in the distance, was the unmistakeable rumble of a road mine going off, it killed a lot of civilians on a bus that was overloaded with men women children and all manner of possesions and animals.
We hadnt gotten that far down the road on a routine morning patrol. I dont know if we ourselves would have been victims of the same fate? History records that I am a survivor of that day and several others like it so…it is my place to report that thes eevents are the cost of war. These are the statistics of an under manned underfunded underequiped conflict as others reap huge profits and the nation runs up the highest debt in the history of the world!
So, dont blame US troops, they are taking their own hits, dont blame the Iraqi’s, they are being savaged by the same acts, blame those who commit these acts instead without them these things wouldnt happen, and when you find them?
KILL THEM! AND THE NEXT
January 30th, 2006 at 1:26 pmIRI,
The Iraqi army will take care of it and they’ll laugh as they bayonet the babies. That’s just the way they are.
Is this what our troops are giving their lives for?
Comment by Don
It wasn’t my idea. I wanted to nuke the lot of them.
January 30th, 2006 at 1:29 pmIRI is really beginning to embarrass the human race.
January 30th, 2006 at 1:39 pmI wonder if Woodruff and CBS will ever mistake a “militant†and a “freedom fighter†for a terrorist again?
Like Reagan did?
January 30th, 2006 at 1:39 pmThese are the statistics of an under manned underfunded underequiped conflict as others reap huge profits and the nation runs up the highest debt in the history of the world!
Comment by stewart
Glad you made it back. But it doesn’t seem to me that we are “under” anything over there or in Vietnam. We lack the will to kill by the tens of thousands as we did to end WWII.
A ground troop in Iraq should not be used when a smart bomb, an attack helo or B-52 strike will do the same thing. Our guys are dying to keep the civilian casualty count down and that is the wrong way to fight a war where the enemy hides among and is hidden by civilians. Bomb the hell out of the Sunni cities and let the UN and Filthy Left squeal.
January 30th, 2006 at 1:40 pmDon arguing with I-R-I is like talking to a tree, you can make some very good points but the tree can not hear them.
January 30th, 2006 at 1:43 pm#47 Stewart: I thank you for your brave service.
I can only blame that government that sent your people into an already-communist South Vietnam to try to convince the people that they REALLY wanted to live under our own dictatorial stooge government.
As for Iraq, I blame a certain mental incompetent with a drinking problem and an Oedipus complex.
January 30th, 2006 at 1:43 pmLike Reagan did?
Comment by David
Jimmy Peanut Carter was the first to fund the Afghan rebels/terrorists and that louse is still on their side today. Reagan was the first to kill them.
But still, it will be interesting to see how ABC soft pedals the Islamofascists from now on. I’ll bet they do a piece to show how “understanding” they can be after losing one of their own. Won’t it be great to watch them be tolerant of the terrorists and seek to understand and dialog with them? Yep, that will be fun. One thing is for sure though, you won’t see any more ABC co-anchors over there for awhile.
January 30th, 2006 at 1:46 pmIRI, your homicidal BS ain’t playing here. Quit being such a vicious coward. You’d probably look quite handsome with some balls.
January 30th, 2006 at 1:46 pm#47 Stewart: I thank you for your brave service.
Comment by RunningDogLackey
Lying sack of shit. You thank Ho for teaching America a lesson and the communists for murdering a million people after we left.
January 30th, 2006 at 1:49 pmIRI,
I wanted to nuke the lot of them.
After 9/11, my neighbor wanted to ‘turn Afghanistan into a parking lot.’ We could save a lot of money on a lot of worthless military junk if we just did what you guys suggest. Plus we could steadily reduce the membership roll of the United Nations by taking out all of the countries that didn’t agree with us, but come to think of it that’s just about everyone, so wouldn’t it get lonely on this planet with nobody left to sell us oil and bananas and stuff?
January 30th, 2006 at 1:52 pmSo, dont blame US troops, they are taking their own hits, dont blame the Iraqi’s, they are being savaged by the same acts, blame those who commit these acts instead without them these things wouldnt happen, and when you find them?
KILL THEM! AND THE NEXT
Comment by stewart
These bastards don’t have the humanity to blame the head choppers, baby rapers, the cowards that hide behind women and children. They only blame America. They hate America and they hate you for fighting for her. Don’t be fooled.
January 30th, 2006 at 1:52 pm#56 The great thing about America is that even a craven winbag with no comprehension of history — such as yourself — can speak his piece.
Our meddling in VN and its neighboring countries helped crystallize and motivate movements like the Khmer Rouge. Regardless, much slaughter would have proceeded with or without us, the dominos didn’t fall, and a whole generation of Vietnamese citizens and American warriors might not have been devastated.
Now, let’s get back to the part about George Bush totally screwing up Iraq.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:00 pm#57 Don: Don’t scare me like that.
Without other people to fear and/or dominate, the US would eat itself. Yeow!
January 30th, 2006 at 2:03 pm#62 RP: Some people forget that the Afghan muhahideen were our creation and our allies against the Soviets.
I’m sure IRI was all for that at the time.
Also: Reagan’s the guy who sold missiles to our deadly enemies, the Iranians. Let’s try to keep that straight!
January 30th, 2006 at 2:11 pm#49 – “IRI is really beginning to embarrass the human race.”
Comment by RunningDogLackey — January 30, 2006 @ 1:39 pm
***** My Dear Lackey – Your “logic” must incriminate Harry Truman also – am I correct?
January 30th, 2006 at 2:12 pm#63 and took Saddam off the terrorism list and sold him chemicals to dust Iranians and Kurds with.
Meanwhile, Iraq has already been ‘nuked’ Oh and notice this story came out BEFORE the 2003 invasion….Iraq has been nuked twice now.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:16 pm#64 Mighty: I don’t quite see the comparison. I don’t think you do, either — but I’m sure you thought it would be damn clever.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:18 pm“Jimmy Peanut Carter was the first to fund the Afghan rebels/terrorists and that louse is still on their side today. Reagan was the first to kill them.”
No Reagan made deals with them and sold them weapons (while Americans were being held hostage) for political gain. You should take a history course
January 30th, 2006 at 2:21 pm#62 RP: Some people forget that the Afghan muhahideen were our creation and our allies against the Soviets.
I’m sure IRI was all for that at the time.
Comment by RunningDogLackey
Of course. I don’t mind arming the devil if he’s going to shoot himself. It’s actually smarter than what we did in WWII. We shouldn’t have spent a dime or a soldier liberating that shithole France. We should have let Hitler have it so he could concentrate on killing the Soviets. But NOOOOOOOO…we had to be heroes and of course the French hate us for it and always have. We won’t make that mistake again.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:22 pmNo Reagan made deals with them and sold them weapons (while Americans were being held hostage) for political gain. You should take a history course
Comment by dano347
Wrong dummy. The hostages were let go the day Reagan took office. Carter signed the first presidential finding to arm the Afghans. Look it up then shut up.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:25 pmIt’s so easy to see how that recent study showing that the partisan brain just shoots out random nonsense because the reasoning centers don’t function around partisan issues is true. These partisan ‘trolls’ are living examples of this.
I feel so much sadness for them – it’s clear that their emotions are so strong, and the rational brain so limited, that they can’t help themlselves. I forgive you trolls – you’re disabled but don’t know it. Poor pumpkins!
Comment by RightPunch — January 30, 2006 @
Did you read the rest of the study? It also offered evidence that republicans are more racist in their thought patterns – who’d a thunk it?
January 30th, 2006 at 2:26 pm“My Dear Lackey – Your “logic†must incriminate Harry Truman also – am I correct?”
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 30, 2006 @ 2:12 pm
History isn’t your strong suit, is it?
The only way Harry Truman could be incriminated is if he started a war of choice – like Bush did.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:28 pmRacist, chickenhawk/chickenshit, greedy, arrogant, misinformed, misguided, angry, hateful, dense, hypocriticial, fascistic…..and I could go on.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:29 pm“Wrong dummy. The hostages were let go the day Reagan took office. Carter signed the first presidential finding to arm the Afghans. Look it up then shut up.”
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 30, 2006 @ 2:25 pm
Because Reagan made as deal with the terrorists before the election,remember?
Who’s talking about the afghans? I mean the Iranian terrorists he sold weapons to, dorkwart.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:30 pmfather, forgive them, for they know not what they do.
i.r.i. would have bayonetted baby Jesus if he could.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:31 pm“i.r.i. would have bayonetted baby Jesus if he could.”
Comment by prozacula — January 30, 2006 @ 2:31
Why not? He’s just another member of “the filthy left” IRI hates so much.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:32 pmIs Bob Woodruff related to Judy Woodruff?
January 30th, 2006 at 2:32 pmWatching RightSlap denigrate others for their partisanship is like watching paint dry – it’s a snooze and nothing you say or do is ever going to change that fact. I did enjoy watching the Head of the Senates Mysoginy Committee stand up for the “issues” of live women – did dear Reggie leave him or something – he just looked like he slept in his outfit.
“I did enjoy watching the Head of the Senates Mysoginy Committee stand up for the “issues†of live women – did dear Reggie leave him or something – he just looked like he slept in his outfit. ”
Comment by mighty aphrodite — January 30, 2006 @ 2:32 pm
?
Take a pill – you’re not making sense again.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:37 pmThe trolls are all trying to distract the conversation by bringing up unrelated crap that they either know or don’t care about the validity of. Don’t talk to them, they can’t hear you, and even if you correct them a million times, there’s no one home to receive the information.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:50 pmI know, Right, but I sometimes can’t resist; is there a twelve-step program for troll-bashers?
Let’s see:
IRI blames Carter for the Afghan Isamists, then applauds him.
IRI brings up Reagan as a hero, and forgets Ronnie’s traitorous dealings with the enemy.
Mighty Aphrodite raises Hiroshima in defense of IRI, gets nuked herself and changes the subject, rather than defend her argument.
Three up. Three down. ThinkProgress retires the side.
January 30th, 2006 at 2:57 pmWatching people destroy the trolls’ feeble arguments sure beats watching the Discovery Channel.
Popcorn, anyone?
January 30th, 2006 at 3:04 pmRightPunch:
January 30th, 2006 at 3:10 pm“[. . .] The analysis found that substantial majorities of Americans, liberals and conservatives, found it more difficult to associate black faces with positive concepts than white faces — evidence of implicit bias. But districts that registered higher levels of bias systematically produced more votes for Bush.
“Obviously, such research does not speak at all to the question of the prejudice level of the president,” said Banaji, “but it does show that George W. Bush is appealing as a leader to those Americans who harbor greater anti-black prejudice.”
“but it does show that George W. Bush is appealing as a leader to those Americans who harbor greater anti-black prejudice.”
Comment by dano347 — January 30, 2006 @ 3:10 pm
If the right-wing visitors to this blog are a representative sample, I would add: Anti-Arab, anti-Muslim, anti-Mexican, anti-immigration, anti equal rights for women, anti-democracy, anti-Asians… I am sure I am forgetting a whole lot of other antis…
January 30th, 2006 at 3:19 pm#89 Gregor:
That’s why we should skip the preludes and get straight to the Global War on “the Other.”
The wingnuts fear anything that doesn’t stare back at them from the mirror.
January 30th, 2006 at 3:31 pmOnly when those in power feel the blowback of the violence perpetrated by the Bushcos, will we hear the truth. Even the Corporations don’t want to lose their best people. Change may be in the air. Wouldn’t it be good to listen to ABC and believe they are actually working to get the real story?
January 30th, 2006 at 4:07 pmBush is suffering from iraqtile dysfunction. Now 43 should do what 41 should’ve done: pull out.
January 30th, 2006 at 4:10 pmI am sure I am forgetting a whole lot of other antis…
Comment by Gregor Samsa
We are against everything Progressives stand for; Treason, Atheism and Sodomy.
January 30th, 2006 at 4:18 pmThe analysis found that substantial majorities of Americans, liberals and conservatives, found it more difficult to associate black faces with positive concepts than white faces — evidence of implicit bias.
Comment by dano347
That same test works on Black folk too by the way.
January 30th, 2006 at 4:21 pmWouldn’t it be good to listen to ABC and believe they are actually working to get the real story?
Comment by jjj
They are working to get the real story. Woodruff got the real story. He got his head blown off by a terrorist, not a freedom fighter. HA!
January 30th, 2006 at 4:25 pmI would point out that this incident,though tragic,hardly “reveals” the lack of armor or armored vehicles in the ISF.
January 30th, 2006 at 4:32 pmThe quarterly reports from the DoD (see the 10/31/05 Section 2207 report).
p32:The Army is equipped w/Warsaw Pact weapons purchased by the MoD or donated by NATO…hundreds of Kraz and Gaz trucks (Ukrainian and Russian built)…AK-47s are the primary field armament
Only the Iraqi Spec.Forces operate primarily US equipment.
From the 7/05 report: Training on T-55 and T-72 tanks.
The State Dept. reported that the Iraqi Armored unit currently being formed has T-72 tanks donated by Hungary.
Besides which, the Iraqi’s ieds have taken out an M1A1,sometimes armor isn’t enough.Casualty reports 9/6/05
The term is insurgent dumbass. The fact that you would laugh about somebody getting seriously injured by our enemy is very disturbing. I knew you were racist, but I had no idea you were rooting for the bad guys. But then again racism is something the US is fighting also, so you are the enemy.
January 30th, 2006 at 4:55 pmoh right punch? heres a scottish kick ladee!
The Viet Nam perspective serves to educate those who know not the paralells of this new conflict and the one of my era?
I dont feel in any way diminshed by the experience, rather I feel so much the wiser. land mines aint exactly new toys to some of us ya see? those of us who’ve looked for em up close and personl like eh?
But, you see, I call for the removal of troops from Iraq based in law.
You see as I see it, The People through their elected representatives gave the Armed Forces a warrant to search for WMD’s and a thug who is responsible for the deaths of thousands, maybe eveen more?
Now, we have the thug in the docket and he is in the hands of the People of Iraq and rightfully so.
The WND’s?
Well in the court of public opinion the warrant is recalled and its time to pay for the damges, reparations if you prefer?
Dont cry for me, a Viet Vet, shed no tears for my widow and my orphan, turn now I say to our returning men and woman who are doing much heavier lifting than I ever did and oh yes please, dont spit on them, I didnt like it then I wont take it kindly now.
Finally?
January 30th, 2006 at 5:10 pmDON’T FORGET? HIRE A VET!
That same test works on Black folk too by the way.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I #94
Can’t wait to set my sights on you too al Cracker…
RIGHT BTWN YOUR EYES…
…there will come a day…
January 30th, 2006 at 5:34 pm#93 you forgot the constitution, the rights of people, truth, honesty, freedom, truth in politics, integrity, veterans, american ideals etc… seems to me that you guys are against all of those things too.
#96 the T-55 is a 1950s era tank. Compared to the armor of today it may as well be a soft wided vehicle.
The T-72 is a little better. It was the Soviet Main Battle Tank in the 1970’s & Early 1980’s until the T-80 replaced it. While tons better than the T-55 on the modern battle field it is damn near obsolete. Most modern anti Tank weapons will penetrate this thing fairly easily and it stands zero chance against the moder day main battle tanks currently being fielded around the world. It was a monster in the 1970’s, but today it is a relic.
January 30th, 2006 at 5:41 pmSorry- I don’t give a good damn that they got nailed…..they were over there to prove the oposite of what thgeir reality was.
January 30th, 2006 at 5:43 pmMy only regret is that it wasn’t some of teh chickenhawk sons of bitches.
I am waiting for his appearance in front of the camaera telling me and teh rest of the American great brainwashed that things are going quite well.
Democracy is messy isn’t it?
We are against everything Progressives stand for; Treason, Atheism and Sodomy.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 30, 2006 @ 4:18 pm
::rolling my eyes::
sure, I-RIGHT-I, sure… keep telling yourself that.
You are so obsessed with sodomy; it’s downright bizarre…
January 30th, 2006 at 5:46 pmThese bastards don’t have the humanity to blame the head choppers, baby rapers, the cowards that hide behind women and children. They only blame America.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I #58
I’ma-Repulsivevenereal-Infection,
What would your inbred, animalfu*kina*s know about “humanity”?…
You do know about raping babies, (they haven’t caught you yet, but your piglets’ repressed memories are sure to surface in the future)…
Sign up sombich, you should be blogging from Baghdad…
Don’t you believe your god Bushiva’s “freedom and democracy” is worth fighting for?
…nooo, you’re an incestuous coward hiding behind your battered pig and piglets…
You hate the diversity, the multi-cultural, multi-racial, melting pot America, founded on the principles of equality,and REAL freedom and democracy…
You belong in 15th century England…on the rack!
January 30th, 2006 at 5:47 pmCan’t wait to set my sights on you too al Cracker…
RIGHT BTWN YOUR EYES…
…there will come a day…
Comment by big papa
What are you going to do? Move next door and decrease my property value? Have a few more bastards and raise my taxes? Burn down the ghetto? Hahahahaaaa
January 30th, 2006 at 5:47 pmYou hate the diversity, the multi-cultural, multi-racial, melting pot America, founded on the principles of equality,and REAL freedom and democracy…
You belong in 15th century England…on the rack!
Comment by big papa
Not at all. I just don’t like losers and race pimps. I don’t like queers teaching children. I don’t like bottom feeding fucktards that willfully participate in programs that hurt my country. I don’t think much of you either.
January 30th, 2006 at 5:51 pmsure, I-RIGHT-I, sure… keep telling yourself that.
You are so obsessed with sodomy; it’s downright bizarre…
Comment by Gregor Samsa
I’m not the one who thinks sodomites should be allowed near little boys and if they are not allowed they should be able to sue and win. That would be your side. That’s bizarre. That’s insane, but that’s Progressives for you.
January 30th, 2006 at 5:56 pm#102 Gregor, the bizarre thing to me is this: somedays I-R-I just comes on here and tells a lie or two as he tries to derail the discussion, other days, we get this raving, psychotic, racist thug whose list of hatreds run so long I to don’t have time to list them. The man is a time bomb.
January 30th, 2006 at 6:16 pmI’m not the one who thinks sodomites should be allowed near little boys and if they are not allowed they should be able to sue and win.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — January 30, 2006 @ 5:56 pm
I am not even sure I understand what you are talking about anymore… you do realise this is a thread about the poor equipment the Iraqi security forces have been given, don’t you? You do realise that it’s also about Pres Bush not living up to his own promises, don’t you?
But your rants seem to focus on genocide and sodomy.
January 30th, 2006 at 6:19 pmTerryTheTurtle,
Time bomb indeed. Most of his rants are bizarre -from the “let’s nuke ‘em all” to the “the left wing losers did it”.
Not a single attempt at posting anything rational. Just mad ravings.
Like I said before, it takes a sadomasochist kind of personality to come here to abuse/be abused.
I-RIGHT-I comes here to get his virtual “fix”.
January 30th, 2006 at 6:24 pmHe thinks he’s fighting for America sorta like sanitourm does when he equates putting his bumper sticker on your car is the same as the soldiers who don the uniform and go to Iraq
January 30th, 2006 at 6:33 pm#110, whose America is that he’s defending? I read the DOI, I don’t recognize that America at all…
January 30th, 2006 at 6:50 pm#111 the same one as santarium and delay and bushco, the one that sees the guy in the mirror as always right and anyone who disagrees a terrorist
January 30th, 2006 at 6:54 pm#112 I oppose on principle anyone who says “your either with us or agin’ us” such people are either moral imbeciles or fascists – take your pick.
January 30th, 2006 at 7:03 pmWell then terry your on my side however from the current tenant of the white house that is not their side
January 30th, 2006 at 7:08 pmOne thing that is readily apparent to me is that the 30% who make up the hard right…people like IRI Mighty A, Bush, ROve etc… they only care about what they think (right or wrong) and could give a fuck about the rest of the country and what the remaining 70% believe.
January 30th, 2006 at 7:26 pmAh yes, apparently now tanks are supposed to be invincible. Woodruff being injured shows that the Iraqis are not well enough equipped? How? Oh right, because tanks are supposed to be invincible. Gotcha.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:17 pmThis is really bs. Please get a life.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:24 pmNews agences buy their own armor.. look at their web site. How bout the soldiers who died?
January 30th, 2006 at 10:26 pmmark
January 30th, 2006 at 10:28 pm30% aint no majority…
so what survey u lolkin at
January 30th, 2006 at 10:30 pmSame ole bs.. would like to discuss some of the stupid remarks here but …. everyone must be out playing with their prostrate…
January 30th, 2006 at 10:33 pmWell Good Night, sorry cant answer the idits that want to call me names after i leave. Must be tough when someone can answer them. ( I intentionally left a misspelled word .. lets see how many wanna pick on that)
January 30th, 2006 at 10:37 pmRumsfeld has no idea what it is like to be wounded in war and lose a leg or an arm or both or an eye!
He is a disgusting putrid sick warmongering creep!
January 30th, 2006 at 10:58 pmIt’s not just the Iraqis, but the foreign nationals that are undersupplied, using unarmored vehicles retrofitted with thin gauge sheet metal as their only protection against attacks. It is virtually useless against enemy fire and IEDs.
Thankfully, the insurgents have terrible aim.
January 30th, 2006 at 11:46 pmmy country. I don’t think much of you either.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I #105
I’ma-pusd’Ripping-I’ngrate
You have NO country, you inbred traitor…
America is going to ingest you (and your racist kind) then sh*t you out…
Your future is going to be as either fertilizer or fish food, and sooner than you think!
January 31st, 2006 at 9:25 amYour future is going to be as either fertilizer or fish food, and sooner than you think!
Comment by big papa
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, you’re taking over the world. Don’t hold your breath loser.
January 31st, 2006 at 9:40 amThankfully, the insurgents have terrible aim.
Comment by Drew Mackenzie
The word is terrorist.
January 31st, 2006 at 9:58 amI am not even sure I understand what you are talking about anymore… you do realise this is a thread about the poor equipment the Iraqi security forces have been given, don’t you?
Comment by Gregor Samsa
Typical Leftist fucktard, always blaming people for what you yourself do. If you EVER stuck to the topic it would be the first time.
“but it does show that George W. Bush is appealing as a leader to those Americans who harbor greater anti-black prejudice.â€
Comment by dano347 — January 30, 2006 @ 3:10 pm
If the right-wing visitors to this blog are a representative sample, I would add: Anti-Arab, anti-Muslim, anti-Mexican, anti-immigration, anti equal rights for women, anti-democracy, anti-Asians… I am sure I am forgetting a whole lot of other antis…
Comment by Gregor Samsa
January 31st, 2006 at 10:55 amWhat an asinine comment!!! Woodruff’s courage reveals deficiencies in the Iraqi force? Are you kidding?
All they did was run over an ied. Wow, how do you stop that? I guess all the ieds that have killed American soldiers means that the U.S. army is deficient.
People are killed and wounded in war. That’s all that happened.
Prayers and good fortune for Mr. Woodruff and the cameraman.
January 31st, 2006 at 11:23 amBig papa has the deepest and thought provoking statements here, doesn’t he?…keep it up….entertain those that look at the lib-socialist left as a joke with your rants and raves…especially the “sh*t you out…” statements……and keep up the bold…it really helps us to see your intelligence….like your goto inbred traitor statements….great….just great…..
January 31st, 2006 at 5:06 pm[...] the personal lens of his own recovery from a traumatic brain injury suffered in Iraq, ABC’s Bob Woodruff last night examined the plight of military families dealing with injuries [...]
February 28th, 2007 at 10:54 am[...] From ThinkProgress: Through the lens of his own personal recovery from a traumatic brain injury suffered in Iraq, ABC’s Bob Woodruff last night examined the plight of military families dealing with injuries to [...]
February 28th, 2007 at 1:57 pm