In a letter to Scooter Libby’s lawyers, Patrick Fitzgerald says he has learned “that many e-mails from Cheney’s office at the time of the Plame leak in 2003 have been deleted contrary to White House policy.”
“The NSA’s terrorist surveillance program is targeted at al Qaeda communications coming into or going out of the United States…” per Scottie.
Oh yea? How do you really know that Scottie? You’ve been fed lies before. The only thing his illegal surveillance get’s Bush is no oversight. So how can anyone say what he’s doing with the program? It has no oversight. What’s wrong with some oversight?
Well, we are told they are gleaning thousands, even millions of calls and sifting through them. SO… are we to conclude that there are thousands/millions of calls from al Queda coming and going from our country? Do we have someone in this country recieving Thousands/hundreds of calls from Al Queda? If so, why is this person still on the loose? IT just makes no sense at all. It sounds false, it rings false, the logic is false. I think what we have here is a loose cannon of a president reaching for any excuse at all to do whatever he wants to whoever he wants and country that just can’t believe we have such a jackass in the oval office.
The office of VP isn’t stupid, they know that deleted e-mails aren’t enough to get indicted over. All that can be stated is that the archiving policy was not followed, “it was a computer glitch” or “a staffer screwed up”. Fitz likely will not be able to identify who deleted them, or who gave the order to do so.
So Cheney sits with his devilish smirk. It’s disgusting.
Prolly who Cheney was Spying on (emails etc)
YaY Mr Cheney Get those TRUTH Tellers.
Mr Cheney Weakens National Security
And Grover Norquist, Delays Friend and Cohort says;
a ‘political Winner’
Grover Norquist, perhaps the most powerful Republican coalition builder in the country, was a member of the host committee and echoed the theme earlier in the day, saying “The only way DeLay would be damaged is if his friends walked away from him.†So reading this in the New York Times, it seemed that Norquist suddenly fell off message:
“Absent from the dais was one of Mr. DeLay’s most outspoken defenders, Mr. Norquist, who was listed in the program as a sponsor. Earlier in the day he (norquist) described the event as an important show of support for the majority leader.
he office of VP isn’t stupid, they know that deleted e-mails aren’t enough to get indicted over. All that can be stated is that the archiving policy was not followed, “it was a computer glitch†or “a staffer screwed upâ€. Fitz likely will not be able to identify who deleted them, or who gave the order to do so
Not so Fast, even if a hard drive is formatted it still holds ‘layers’ of Data.
Think about this. How Did he Fitz ‘KNOW’ they were deleted?
There are many Logs of Data that comes and goes from the White House. For Cheney to Sit there and think because he deleted the Emails from the Email servers that they ‘got deleted’ hes wrong. Emails are deleted from the Mailbox, but not necessarily from the server, or the Packet logs, or the SIGINT.
Its a Fair Bet that copies still exist somewhere. =)
Where are the trolls to tell us that the Vice President has the right to delete his own e-mails and that it doesn’t prove guilt.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Naw. Not the trolls, Spudge.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Bush’s new and improved Supreme Court will take care of that nasty little chore.
One would think the emails were backed up on tape as stated on #20. Even if someone got to the IS in the White House to destroy the backups, IS would know who said destroy the tapes. I would think it’d have to be a big time heavy weight (pun intended)to force destroying tapes!
Well, I am a techie and I can tell you that just deleting e-mails off of a PC does not get rid of them. They are still kept on the servers. If the e-mail was deleted off of the servers, it was doen by the IT guy, not Cheney. Cheney could order it, but he ain’t smart enough to really get rid of them. Not to mention that you would have to clear all of the logs that show who deleted the e-mails from the servers. This would list login and IP address info.
To completely clear out these e-mails would take a lot of work and reeks of cover-up, not just somebody deleting the e-mails off of their local PC.
Wow this couldbe cool if they are able to get a forensic computer guy to hit the white house servers to look for these deleted emails. They leave fingerprints and could be recoverable along with who knows what…?
Also do you wonder how many times Bush has had fitz in to visit his opffice to offer him various federal judgeship po=sitions around the country? I’d bet that at the very least feelers have been put out to this effect.
They learned their lesson from Ollie North about deleted emails. Truly covering their tracks would require some real computer expertise and many hours of clandestine effort. Your homeland security dollars at work!
Maybe Cheney will have a massive heart attack, and save the tax payers all that money for a trial. (Note to trolls: Yes, I’m kidding, sort of….well, at least as much as Coulter was about the rat poison.)
This doesn’t matter. You do not have the resources needed to make these charges stick. The GOP majority in Congress and the Supreme Court will end this left-wing witch hunt once and for all.
Do you understand what I am saying – there is nothing you can do about it. Libby will get off and you will have to accept that. AND once Harry Reid is forced to resign from the Senate Leadership, your bogus culture of corruption charge will boomerang in your face.
AND then, the GOP majority will launch our own little witch hunt. Why? Because we CAN.
#26 – Absolutely Spudge. Making emails “disappear” is extremely difficult, and if Fitz is willing to put in writing that emails were deleted, there’s a better than even chance Fitz has an idea of what those emails were.
And here’s a thought… didn’t Cheney flack for Arthur Andersen back in the Halliburton days… Oh my.
#30 – actually, that would be wonderful. Cheney’s death would illicit sympathy and pave the way for Condi’s Presidency. Obviously, Bush would tap her for VP and she would run in 2008 and win.
Deleted Email huh? I’m not surprised what so ever. What’s next, you may want to ask?
Maybe it’s time to realize that this criminal behavior is really part of something much larger. I was in a family for 26 years that joined Organized Crime, but they called it the World’s Largest Criminal Organization, for good reason! The biggest part of this criminal system is Political Corruption and it doesn’t take a Brain Scientist to look around and find Fraud! It’s everywhere! It also has the appearance of being totally out of control too.
Just remember that Wiretapping is required to help manage and secure their ongoing Corruption projects. With Wiretapping, they will be able to be one step ahead of anyone who is trying to stop them. Another point to think about is why are the news people questioning the existence of suspicious Corruption Laundromats and no one is investigating? I know of a very large one that is where our tax dollars go BUT we aren’t the owners. If you think some of this is shocking, maybe when the other more serious crimes surface it will make you fall off your chair.
Cheney’s death would illicit sympathy and pave the way for Condi’s Presidency.
Comment by Innocent Lite — February 1, 2006 @ 4:23 pm
I have to agree. This administration is all about illicit stuff: Invasion of countries that pose no threat, torture of prisoners, secret wiretaps -all illicit actions.
And now covering their tracks by getting rid of the evidence. Reminds me of Enron… weren’t they based in Texas and close to Cheney and Co?
IL, the WH ship is sinking FAST. Condi is part of that ship. She had all the knowledge and information to the crimes of the WH. When they go down, so will she. If for nothing else, not being a whistleblower over the crimes.
Don’t get to excited there youngster, they are going Down, Down, Down. It’s only a matter of time….. If not today, then tomorrow. If not tomorrow, then next week. Eventually, we will have enough support for locking up these criminals. Since there is not a statute of limitation on MURDER, these guys will have to watch their backs for the rest of their lives. Very soon, hopefully this year, they will get their day in court.
Didn’t the White House have a policy of co-operating fully with the investigation? Glad to see Big Dick is still 0 for life complying with law and policy.
BTW, do you all know that the judge in the Abramoff case has been replaced?
President George W. Bush appointed the lead investigator in the Abramoff case to become a judge in New Jersey.
#43 – Don’t worry, once the Republicans are relegated back to the minority party (to maatch their minority IQ), the Democrats will clean house and reverse all the damage the Republicans have done to the nation, the country, the Constitution, the Supreme Court, and the White House.
History has proven over, and over, and over again: nobody is in the majority forever. What do you think the Republicans will think of the filibuster then? Of course, it will be mandatory for them as the minority voice, but by then it may be too late for them to use if they try and dismantle it altogether.
#39 – you’re the one getting excited. I have everything I want right now.
Bush isn’t going anywhere. If anyone is going down, it’s the radical left wing ideologues who have ruined the Democratic Party.
Comment by Innocent Lite — February 1, 2006 @ 4:50 pm
Really? Ask the troops how they feel about you sitting in comfort and crowing about a “victory” while they’re still getting shot and blown up. You typify the cretinous, cult-like obscessives of the FRight (freeper Right); pasty,urine-stained wretches who march around on their knees, offering up hard-won rights whenever the wind blows in the trees.
Or to define you in a single word: coward – in thought, word, and deed.
#46 – no.
#45 – Democrats will NEVER be in the majority as long as they continue to pander to the radical left-wing elements in this country. PERIOD. I am glad the filibuster was preserved for extraordinary circumstance. Sam Alito was not one of them – 54% of Americans wanted him approved.
#47 – one word for liberals like you, TRAITOR…
Illicit is about right. America now realizes the hand in puppet is Cheney. Rove is just lipstick.
Here are some of the wonderful phrases forever connected to King George, and the Republicans…
Iraq, Lies, incompetence, leaks, Scandals, Katrina, deficit, disaster, torture, K-Street lobbyists, illegal wiretaps, Diebold, war criminal, arrogance, “bring ‘em on”, STUPID!
There’s a resume for you. I’m sure they are all shoe-ins for the next election… as long as they run for dog-catcher.
IL doesn’t even read the articles,so IT can stay on topic and make intellegent posts. Don’t expect that much from IL, using the computer to post drivel taxes what abilities it has.
Well, get out of the way, dear IL, while the country makes that “hard right turn”. Go stand over there and wait for it. Look out that you don’t get run over in the rush, babe. Let us know how it works out for you.
#48 54% wanted him confirmed? Stunning absoultely stunning as probably 90% have no clue as to where he stands on any issue and definately don’t know that he has admitted lying to the Reagan adminsitration to get a job. Hmm imagine that the Bush adminsitration put an admitted liar on the Supreme Court? Who would have guessed.
#48 – Yeah, keep saying that to yourself and you might actually believe it.
The Republican’s thought they’d be in the majority in 1875, and the lost to the Democrats for six years.
They thought the same thing in 1883, again they lost it for 6 more years.
They thought the same thing in 1891, again they lost it for six years.
They thought the same thing in 1911, again they lost it for six years.
They thought the same thing in 1933, again they lost it for fourteen years.
They thought the same thing in 1949, again they lost it for four years.
They thought the same thing in 1955, again they lost it for FOURTY years.
Now, they think they’ll keep the majority forever. Go ahead, shove your head further and further into the sand. The ‘ostrich’ maneuver is a great Republican tactic. We’ll not stop you from ignoring history, we’ll let history bite you in the butt yet again.
#54 – This is the history of the House, by the bye. I won’t regale you with the history of the Senate or the White House, as you’ve proven history is something you’re not interested in learning.
I’ll let history be your teacher, and you can cry when you find out how wrong you are when your minority Republicans complain that they got rid of the filibuster.
Why the fvck are you commenting on something you haven’t even taken the time to watch and then expect people to debate you? You are a worthless piece of biological matter.
Democrat Soldier – we are the majority, you are not. Bush is the GOP version of FDR and you hate that. You should – he’s been pissing on you guys pretty bad.
Mark – Alito is not a LIAR. That charge coming from someone who probably supported an admitted war criminal who later lied to cover it up. You have no cred.
#52 – the country is more conservative in the post Bush v. Gore era in large part because Democrats have gone nuts.
Listen to the hatred you all are spewing. It’s sad. I actually pity you. I feel sorry for you.
My comment at #41 is misleading. The chief investigator in the Abramoff case has beem promoted to judge in New Jersey. The judge has not been replaced.
Didn’t Nixon do something similar during Watergate?
#58, I don’t think you are in the majority any more, that is if you ever were, considering the popular vote went to Gore in 2000 and the squeaker in 2004 was managed by Diebold.
Fitzgerald was long suspicious Rove had hidden evidence; Not swayed by last minute testimony, lawyers say
Jason Leopold
A few weeks after he took over the investigation into the leak of covert CIA agent Valerie Plame Wilson in early 2004, Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald had already become suspicious that Karl Rove and Vice President Cheney’s then-chief of staff I. Lewis “Scooter†Libby were hindering his investigation.
Actually, the data from prior writes leaves traces that can be recovered with certain technology. I have worked on recovery projects where the “guassian splash” was used to recover information from everywhere from the FAT or directory to the actual data.
Innocent Lite you don’t understand the issue. You talk as if you are winning in some way but what exactly is the big prize for being a republican stooge? Assuming you aren’t part of the tiny and shrinking percentage of the population that owns most of the country’s wealth, what good reason could you have to support this administration? Did you ever consider what a tool you are?
This Plame affair isn’t about Dem or Rep, so stop accusing radical left wingers of things in this post. This is about breaking the law. Let me ask you, do you think a public official should be impeached if they break the law? Or would you prefer that Bush be crowned King of the USA?
“Mark – Alito is not a LIAR. That charge coming from someone who probably supported an admitted war criminal who later lied to cover it up. You have no cred.
#52 – the country is more conservative in the post Bush v. Gore era in large part because Democrats have gone nuts.
Listen to the hatred you all are spewing. It’s sad. I actually pity you. I feel sorry for you. Innocent Lite”
So you accuse your fellow americans who served in the military of being war criminals. Then you accuse your fellow americans who dissent against you as being ‘nuts’. Then you accuse everyone else of hatred?
Oh sweetie, I don’t hate you. I love you and every other silly little partisan out there. You shouldn’t assume everyone hates those they disagree with – just because you do – it’s called ‘projection’ – I know big word – sorry.
See a partisan brain like yours attacks out of your emotion and ‘hysteria’ centers. The parts of your brain that ‘learn’, ‘reason’ and ‘think’ aren’t functional in your partisan emotional state. It’s why you say such silly, hateful and unfounded things.
But pumpkin I forgive you and your hatred. See I don’t hate you, I feel compassion for you and all of the other lost partisan souls. You’re my fellow americans and I no more want you to have pain, suffer or be disgraced as bush has been – than I want anyone to be. But reality sometimes is harsh and the adult thing is to rise to the occasion and accept it. If you were raised to think the earth is flat, and donkeys can talk – reality can be hard to distinguish, but I’d be happy to assist you sweetie. It’s the least I can do for such a passionate but misguided fellow american. OK pumpkin?
My fear is that they could prevent investigators from checking their computers on the pretenses of: protecting national security, and preserving the constitutional rights of the president. It is truly disturbing that these guys are so anxius to destroy the common mans civil rights but they are so concerned about conflating the potus’s rights.
Marie, yeah I’ve been reading about that. Another interesting move was Frederick Black’s investigation on Abramoff’s dealings in Guam in 2002. Black subpoenaed records from Guam Superior Court. The NEXT DAY he was fired by Bush after 11 or 12 years in his his position. Bush’s replacement had to recuse himself from the case because one of the investigation’s targets was his cousin.
Post 70. is correct. If the tape backups are corrupted, it would have required expertise and access. I can’t imagine the list of those who had access to the tape backups is a long one. I can only pray that the Bush administration wasn’t smart enough to get to the backups. If they were, at least it’s obvious that there was an intent to hide/obstruct.
There is even more on this Fitzgerald letter on firedoglake.blogspot.com and dailyykos.com
Deleted emails. Yes, and think back to the twelve-hour delay when Gonzales was informed of the order to preserve evidence and the time he actually gave the order to do so.
Gonzales had a bad week and it’s going to get worse.
#Isn’t it true that deleting emails doesn’t necessarily get rid of them? Didn’t Oliver North discover this? (I’m no techie.)
Comment by Danton — February 1, 2006 @ 3:54 pm
Even if you Delete the Email, it WAS sent thru the Networks to other Systems. Deleting the Email, or the Tape takes care of one perhaps if done quite carefully, both Ends Yet the wires In-between have ears =)
Oh yea? How do you really know that Scottie? You’ve been fed lies before. The only thing his illegal surveillance get’s Bush is no oversight. So how can anyone say what he’s doing with the program? It has no oversight. What’s wrong with some oversight?
Comment by Solitaire #9
Solitaire,
In fact, the one thing one can deduce from Bushiva’s/NSA’a circumvention of FISA and “oversight” is that he/they did so precisely because he/they HAVE something to hide…
The latest is that the Bushites are refusing Congressional (Judiciary Committee) requests to see “classified” documents that outline the legal advice Al and the boys gave Bushiva on the legality/or not of the warrantless wiretapping…
…seems there was some dissention in ‘04 from some DOJ officials as to whether or not the program would be legal…
#58 actually the words came right from the mouth of Judge Alito. But I guess when someone on the right is quoted directly and it makes them look bad, it must be some kind of plot against them. Examples: Abort all the black babies and lower crime, or No Human/Animal hybrids on my watch or the all time great “I don’t recall” later changed to “I guess I do recall now” Nope deny reality all you want and run into that wall you don’t believe exists.
Face it 30% of the people at most believe in the conservative agenda and maybe a like number believe in a liberal agenda, the true facts of the matter is that a majority of the people are in the middle or drift towards the middle. The republicans win because they market better and have a strategy of attack that they don’t waver from…right or wrong. They are capable of capturing single issue voters better than dems do. Republicans target right to lifers and NRA types, or the southern strategy of white fear of blacks knowing full well that if those people ever looked at the total picture they would be swinging the other way. Nope, the republicans convince people that their hot button issue, no matter what it is, is the one issue the republicans care most about.
I find it funny that you seem to support the most radically far right extremist administration in the history of our country and mock what you call the far left. But from where you stand you see yourself as the middle of the road when in fact the middle of the road is a scary bunch of radicals to your viewpoint.
Subpoena the techs who work on the email servers and the backups. One of them will spill his/her guts and the whole thing will unravel. Fitz may have already done this and is just letting Scooter hang himself and anyone else that wants to.
If they used one of those DoD erasing programs, the emails would have been erased and overwritten many times and therefore, unrecoverable. I read that Gonzo supposedly didn’t notify the WH staff immedieatly so there was ample time for mischief.
At the very least, Fitz should be able to nail somebody for deleting emails and follow it up the food chain. If I were in that chain, I’d ask for written orders and keep hard copies. Doesn’t sound like Scooter was that smart, OR he was just helping Cheney determine his amount of exposure.
Oh crap!
February 1st, 2006 at 2:55 pmCan you say …obstruction of justice?
February 1st, 2006 at 2:58 pm18 minutes of erased tape.
February 1st, 2006 at 2:59 pmThe 18 1/2 minute gap.
February 1st, 2006 at 3:00 pmGood. Cyberspace knows all! You can run. You can’t hide!
February 1st, 2006 at 3:01 pmHell, I’ll bet NSA has copies of them.
My virtual dog must’ve eaten them.
February 1st, 2006 at 3:03 pmObstruction of justice is impeachable by itself. It is also a felony. Indightment time for Cheney.
This is sounding so much more like Watergate as it goes on, but we know it is much worst than Watergate ever was.
February 1st, 2006 at 3:05 pmSurprise, surprise…!!!
February 1st, 2006 at 3:05 pm“The NSA’s terrorist surveillance program is targeted at al Qaeda communications coming into or going out of the United States…” per Scottie.
February 1st, 2006 at 3:08 pmOh yea? How do you really know that Scottie? You’ve been fed lies before. The only thing his illegal surveillance get’s Bush is no oversight. So how can anyone say what he’s doing with the program? It has no oversight. What’s wrong with some oversight?
Well, we are told they are gleaning thousands, even millions of calls and sifting through them. SO… are we to conclude that there are thousands/millions of calls from al Queda coming and going from our country? Do we have someone in this country recieving Thousands/hundreds of calls from Al Queda? If so, why is this person still on the loose? IT just makes no sense at all. It sounds false, it rings false, the logic is false. I think what we have here is a loose cannon of a president reaching for any excuse at all to do whatever he wants to whoever he wants and country that just can’t believe we have such a jackass in the oval office.
Ooops. Sorry for being off-topic. Posted under the wrong comments section.
February 1st, 2006 at 3:12 pmWow, first it was having photos of Bush and Abramoff deleted, now it is e-mails, form the time period that the Plame leak happened, from Dick Cheney.
Yeah coulture of corruption.
Where are the trolls to tell us that the Vice President has the right to delete his own e-mails and that it doesn’t prove guilt.
February 1st, 2006 at 3:16 pmI was so hoping for an indictment this week. Perhaps Cheney will be indicted instead of Rove for conspiracy and obstruction.
February 1st, 2006 at 3:17 pm#12 The fact that the emails were deleated make me think that Fitzgerald wanted to paint a big bullseye on Cheney.
February 1st, 2006 at 3:25 pmI think Cheney just painted his own bulls-eye!
February 1st, 2006 at 3:28 pmFitzgerald is very brave, I really respect that. Of course evidence is now missing, what would you expect?
February 1st, 2006 at 3:31 pmindictment would be great, but there is no MSM reporting this story, so did it really happen?
not to the vast majority of americans
this is how they thrive… lie, and ignore, and if necessary deny.
February 1st, 2006 at 3:35 pmThe office of VP isn’t stupid, they know that deleted e-mails aren’t enough to get indicted over. All that can be stated is that the archiving policy was not followed, “it was a computer glitch” or “a staffer screwed up”. Fitz likely will not be able to identify who deleted them, or who gave the order to do so.
So Cheney sits with his devilish smirk. It’s disgusting.
February 1st, 2006 at 3:36 pmProlly who Cheney was Spying on (emails etc)
YaY Mr Cheney Get those TRUTH Tellers.
Mr Cheney Weakens National Security
And Grover Norquist, Delays Friend and Cohort says;
a ‘political Winner’
Grover Norquist, perhaps the most powerful Republican coalition builder in the country, was a member of the host committee and echoed the theme earlier in the day, saying “The only way DeLay would be damaged is if his friends walked away from him.†So reading this in the New York Times, it seemed that Norquist suddenly fell off message:
“Absent from the dais was one of Mr. DeLay’s most outspoken defenders, Mr. Norquist, who was listed in the program as a sponsor. Earlier in the day he (norquist) described the event as an important show of support for the majority leader.
February 1st, 2006 at 3:36 pmhe office of VP isn’t stupid, they know that deleted e-mails aren’t enough to get indicted over. All that can be stated is that the archiving policy was not followed, “it was a computer glitch†or “a staffer screwed upâ€. Fitz likely will not be able to identify who deleted them, or who gave the order to do so
Not so Fast, even if a hard drive is formatted it still holds ‘layers’ of Data.
Think about this. How Did he Fitz ‘KNOW’ they were deleted?
There are many Logs of Data that comes and goes from the White House. For Cheney to Sit there and think because he deleted the Emails from the Email servers that they ‘got deleted’ hes wrong. Emails are deleted from the Mailbox, but not necessarily from the server, or the Packet logs, or the SIGINT.
February 1st, 2006 at 3:41 pmIts a Fair Bet that copies still exist somewhere. =)
#15 They never learn, BTW do you think Nixon’s laughing his ass off where ever he is now?
February 1st, 2006 at 3:43 pm20) Nixon is back in the white house. Cheney used to keep his head in a jar at home but now he sits on a book shelf right behind the new dick.
February 1st, 2006 at 3:50 pmDoesn’t matter anyway. Bush will exec privelege and the Supreme Court will uphold it.
February 1st, 2006 at 3:51 pmWhere are the trolls to tell us that the Vice President has the right to delete his own e-mails and that it doesn’t prove guilt.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Naw. Not the trolls, Spudge.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Bush’s new and improved Supreme Court will take care of that nasty little chore.
February 1st, 2006 at 3:52 pmIsn’t it true that deleting emails doesn’t necessarily get rid of them? Didn’t Oliver North discover this? (I’m no techie.)
February 1st, 2006 at 3:54 pmOne would think the emails were backed up on tape as stated on #20. Even if someone got to the IS in the White House to destroy the backups, IS would know who said destroy the tapes. I would think it’d have to be a big time heavy weight (pun intended)to force destroying tapes!
February 1st, 2006 at 3:55 pmWell, I am a techie and I can tell you that just deleting e-mails off of a PC does not get rid of them. They are still kept on the servers. If the e-mail was deleted off of the servers, it was doen by the IT guy, not Cheney. Cheney could order it, but he ain’t smart enough to really get rid of them. Not to mention that you would have to clear all of the logs that show who deleted the e-mails from the servers. This would list login and IP address info.
To completely clear out these e-mails would take a lot of work and reeks of cover-up, not just somebody deleting the e-mails off of their local PC.
February 1st, 2006 at 4:02 pmWow this couldbe cool if they are able to get a forensic computer guy to hit the white house servers to look for these deleted emails. They leave fingerprints and could be recoverable along with who knows what…?
February 1st, 2006 at 4:07 pmAlso do you wonder how many times Bush has had fitz in to visit his opffice to offer him various federal judgeship po=sitions around the country? I’d bet that at the very least feelers have been put out to this effect.
February 1st, 2006 at 4:09 pmThey learned their lesson from Ollie North about deleted emails. Truly covering their tracks would require some real computer expertise and many hours of clandestine effort. Your homeland security dollars at work!
February 1st, 2006 at 4:12 pmMaybe Cheney will have a massive heart attack, and save the tax payers all that money for a trial. (Note to trolls: Yes, I’m kidding, sort of….well, at least as much as Coulter was about the rat poison.)
February 1st, 2006 at 4:16 pmThis doesn’t matter. You do not have the resources needed to make these charges stick. The GOP majority in Congress and the Supreme Court will end this left-wing witch hunt once and for all.
Do you understand what I am saying – there is nothing you can do about it. Libby will get off and you will have to accept that. AND once Harry Reid is forced to resign from the Senate Leadership, your bogus culture of corruption charge will boomerang in your face.
AND then, the GOP majority will launch our own little witch hunt. Why? Because we CAN.
February 1st, 2006 at 4:19 pm“Yeah coulture of corruption.”
Comment by Spudge_Boy — February 1, 2006 @ 3:16 pm
Is that “culture of corruption” – or “coulter of corruption”?
Works either way.
February 1st, 2006 at 4:23 pm#26 – Absolutely Spudge. Making emails “disappear” is extremely difficult, and if Fitz is willing to put in writing that emails were deleted, there’s a better than even chance Fitz has an idea of what those emails were.
And here’s a thought… didn’t Cheney flack for Arthur Andersen back in the Halliburton days… Oh my.
February 1st, 2006 at 4:23 pm#30 – actually, that would be wonderful. Cheney’s death would illicit sympathy and pave the way for Condi’s Presidency. Obviously, Bush would tap her for VP and she would run in 2008 and win.
February 1st, 2006 at 4:23 pmHey IL, You rock!
February 1st, 2006 at 4:24 pmDeleted Email huh? I’m not surprised what so ever. What’s next, you may want to ask?
Maybe it’s time to realize that this criminal behavior is really part of something much larger. I was in a family for 26 years that joined Organized Crime, but they called it the World’s Largest Criminal Organization, for good reason! The biggest part of this criminal system is Political Corruption and it doesn’t take a Brain Scientist to look around and find Fraud! It’s everywhere! It also has the appearance of being totally out of control too.
Just remember that Wiretapping is required to help manage and secure their ongoing Corruption projects. With Wiretapping, they will be able to be one step ahead of anyone who is trying to stop them. Another point to think about is why are the news people questioning the existence of suspicious Corruption Laundromats and no one is investigating? I know of a very large one that is where our tax dollars go BUT we aren’t the owners. If you think some of this is shocking, maybe when the other more serious crimes surface it will make you fall off your chair.
Marty Didier
February 1st, 2006 at 4:28 pmNorthbrook, IL
Cheney’s death would illicit sympathy and pave the way for Condi’s Presidency.
Comment by Innocent Lite — February 1, 2006 @ 4:23 pm
I have to agree. This administration is all about illicit stuff: Invasion of countries that pose no threat, torture of prisoners, secret wiretaps -all illicit actions.
And now covering their tracks by getting rid of the evidence. Reminds me of Enron… weren’t they based in Texas and close to Cheney and Co?
February 1st, 2006 at 4:40 pmI think Rosemary Woods died — her ghost is now erasing Emails.
February 1st, 2006 at 4:42 pmIL, the WH ship is sinking FAST. Condi is part of that ship. She had all the knowledge and information to the crimes of the WH. When they go down, so will she. If for nothing else, not being a whistleblower over the crimes.
Don’t get to excited there youngster, they are going Down, Down, Down. It’s only a matter of time….. If not today, then tomorrow. If not tomorrow, then next week. Eventually, we will have enough support for locking up these criminals. Since there is not a statute of limitation on MURDER, these guys will have to watch their backs for the rest of their lives. Very soon, hopefully this year, they will get their day in court.
February 1st, 2006 at 4:46 pmDidn’t the White House have a policy of co-operating fully with the investigation? Glad to see Big Dick is still 0 for life complying with law and policy.
February 1st, 2006 at 4:47 pmBTW, do you all know that the judge in the Abramoff case has been replaced?
February 1st, 2006 at 4:48 pmPresident George W. Bush appointed the lead investigator in the Abramoff case to become a judge in New Jersey.
#39 – you’re the one getting excited. I have everything I want right now. The opposition’s total detachment from reality is the icing on the cake!
Bush isn’t going anywhere. If anyone is going down, it’s the radical left wing ideologues who have ruined the Democratic Party.
February 1st, 2006 at 4:50 pm#41 – and don’t you forget it. Your little witch hunts will be stopped.
February 1st, 2006 at 4:51 pm#34 – Cheney’s death would illicit sympathy…
Funny, Freudian slip. I think you meant “elicit.”
February 1st, 2006 at 4:52 pm#43 – Don’t worry, once the Republicans are relegated back to the minority party (to maatch their minority IQ), the Democrats will clean house and reverse all the damage the Republicans have done to the nation, the country, the Constitution, the Supreme Court, and the White House.
History has proven over, and over, and over again: nobody is in the majority forever. What do you think the Republicans will think of the filibuster then? Of course, it will be mandatory for them as the minority voice, but by then it may be too late for them to use if they try and dismantle it altogether.
Double standards, thy party is Republican!
February 1st, 2006 at 5:10 pm#42 Did you even watch the flacid SOTU?
February 1st, 2006 at 5:12 pm#39 – you’re the one getting excited. I have everything I want right now.
Bush isn’t going anywhere. If anyone is going down, it’s the radical left wing ideologues who have ruined the Democratic Party.
Comment by Innocent Lite — February 1, 2006 @ 4:50 pm
Really? Ask the troops how they feel about you sitting in comfort and crowing about a “victory” while they’re still getting shot and blown up. You typify the cretinous, cult-like obscessives of the FRight (freeper Right); pasty,urine-stained wretches who march around on their knees, offering up hard-won rights whenever the wind blows in the trees.
Or to define you in a single word: coward – in thought, word, and deed.
February 1st, 2006 at 5:14 pm#46 – no.
February 1st, 2006 at 5:18 pm#45 – Democrats will NEVER be in the majority as long as they continue to pander to the radical left-wing elements in this country. PERIOD. I am glad the filibuster was preserved for extraordinary circumstance. Sam Alito was not one of them – 54% of Americans wanted him approved.
#47 – one word for liberals like you, TRAITOR…
Illicit is about right. America now realizes the hand in puppet is Cheney. Rove is just lipstick.
February 1st, 2006 at 5:21 pmHere are some of the wonderful phrases forever connected to King George, and the Republicans…
Iraq, Lies, incompetence, leaks, Scandals, Katrina, deficit, disaster, torture, K-Street lobbyists, illegal wiretaps, Diebold, war criminal, arrogance, “bring ‘em on”, STUPID!
There’s a resume for you. I’m sure they are all shoe-ins for the next election… as long as they run for dog-catcher.
#42 Did you even watch the flacid SOTU?
Comment by Spudge_Boy
IL doesn’t even read the articles,so IT can stay on topic and make intellegent posts. Don’t expect that much from IL, using the computer to post drivel taxes what abilities it has.
February 1st, 2006 at 5:24 pmSolitaire – one phrase sums it up for Democrats: sore losers.
As the country takes a hard right turn, I laugh at you.
February 1st, 2006 at 5:24 pmWell, get out of the way, dear IL, while the country makes that “hard right turn”. Go stand over there and wait for it. Look out that you don’t get run over in the rush, babe. Let us know how it works out for you.
February 1st, 2006 at 5:29 pm#48 54% wanted him confirmed? Stunning absoultely stunning as probably 90% have no clue as to where he stands on any issue and definately don’t know that he has admitted lying to the Reagan adminsitration to get a job. Hmm imagine that the Bush adminsitration put an admitted liar on the Supreme Court? Who would have guessed.
February 1st, 2006 at 5:30 pm#48 – Yeah, keep saying that to yourself and you might actually believe it.
The Republican’s thought they’d be in the majority in 1875, and the lost to the Democrats for six years.
They thought the same thing in 1883, again they lost it for 6 more years.
They thought the same thing in 1891, again they lost it for six years.
They thought the same thing in 1911, again they lost it for six years.
They thought the same thing in 1933, again they lost it for fourteen years.
They thought the same thing in 1949, again they lost it for four years.
They thought the same thing in 1955, again they lost it for FOURTY years.
Now, they think they’ll keep the majority forever. Go ahead, shove your head further and further into the sand. The ‘ostrich’ maneuver is a great Republican tactic. We’ll not stop you from ignoring history, we’ll let history bite you in the butt yet again.
February 1st, 2006 at 5:32 pm#54 – This is the history of the House, by the bye. I won’t regale you with the history of the Senate or the White House, as you’ve proven history is something you’re not interested in learning.
I’ll let history be your teacher, and you can cry when you find out how wrong you are when your minority Republicans complain that they got rid of the filibuster.
February 1st, 2006 at 5:35 pmInnocent Lite,
Why the fvck are you commenting on something you haven’t even taken the time to watch and then expect people to debate you? You are a worthless piece of biological matter.
February 1st, 2006 at 5:35 pmTime to sieze all the WHite House Computers and get experts to scan the disks.
February 1st, 2006 at 5:38 pmDemocrat Soldier – we are the majority, you are not. Bush is the GOP version of FDR and you hate that. You should – he’s been pissing on you guys pretty bad.
Mark – Alito is not a LIAR. That charge coming from someone who probably supported an admitted war criminal who later lied to cover it up. You have no cred.
#52 – the country is more conservative in the post Bush v. Gore era in large part because Democrats have gone nuts.
Listen to the hatred you all are spewing. It’s sad. I actually pity you. I feel sorry for you.
February 1st, 2006 at 5:43 pmMy comment at #41 is misleading. The chief investigator in the Abramoff case has beem promoted to judge in New Jersey. The judge has not been replaced.
February 1st, 2006 at 5:54 pmDidn’t Nixon do something similar during Watergate?
Yes, there is the possibility of recovering the data, when you “delete” things, they still exist on the hard drive until the space is needed.
February 1st, 2006 at 5:54 pm#58, I don’t think you are in the majority any more, that is if you ever were, considering the popular vote went to Gore in 2000 and the squeaker in 2004 was managed by Diebold.
February 1st, 2006 at 5:55 pmMaybe you could explain how 38% is the majority? Are you using that “new math”?
February 1st, 2006 at 5:56 pmJason Leopold reported this very story more than a month ago. He has proven to be the most reliable reporter on this case.
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Fitzgerald_seen_to_press_for_Rove_1213.html
Fitzgerald was long suspicious Rove had hidden evidence; Not swayed by last minute testimony, lawyers say
Jason Leopold
A few weeks after he took over the investigation into the leak of covert CIA agent Valerie Plame Wilson in early 2004, Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald had already become suspicious that Karl Rove and Vice President Cheney’s then-chief of staff I. Lewis “Scooter†Libby were hindering his investigation.
February 1st, 2006 at 6:05 pmActually, the data from prior writes leaves traces that can be recovered with certain technology. I have worked on recovery projects where the “guassian splash” was used to recover information from everywhere from the FAT or directory to the actual data.
February 1st, 2006 at 6:32 pmInnocent Lite you don’t understand the issue. You talk as if you are winning in some way but what exactly is the big prize for being a republican stooge? Assuming you aren’t part of the tiny and shrinking percentage of the population that owns most of the country’s wealth, what good reason could you have to support this administration? Did you ever consider what a tool you are?
February 1st, 2006 at 6:37 pmThis Plame affair isn’t about Dem or Rep, so stop accusing radical left wingers of things in this post. This is about breaking the law. Let me ask you, do you think a public official should be impeached if they break the law? Or would you prefer that Bush be crowned King of the USA?
Not just emails from the Vice President. Also emails from the “Executive Office of President.”
Check out the last paragraph of the letter up at rawstory.com
February 1st, 2006 at 6:47 pm“Mark – Alito is not a LIAR. That charge coming from someone who probably supported an admitted war criminal who later lied to cover it up. You have no cred.
#52 – the country is more conservative in the post Bush v. Gore era in large part because Democrats have gone nuts.
Listen to the hatred you all are spewing. It’s sad. I actually pity you. I feel sorry for you. Innocent Lite”
So you accuse your fellow americans who served in the military of being war criminals. Then you accuse your fellow americans who dissent against you as being ‘nuts’. Then you accuse everyone else of hatred?
Oh sweetie, I don’t hate you. I love you and every other silly little partisan out there. You shouldn’t assume everyone hates those they disagree with – just because you do – it’s called ‘projection’ – I know big word – sorry.
See a partisan brain like yours attacks out of your emotion and ‘hysteria’ centers. The parts of your brain that ‘learn’, ‘reason’ and ‘think’ aren’t functional in your partisan emotional state. It’s why you say such silly, hateful and unfounded things.
But pumpkin I forgive you and your hatred. See I don’t hate you, I feel compassion for you and all of the other lost partisan souls. You’re my fellow americans and I no more want you to have pain, suffer or be disgraced as bush has been – than I want anyone to be. But reality sometimes is harsh and the adult thing is to rise to the occasion and accept it. If you were raised to think the earth is flat, and donkeys can talk – reality can be hard to distinguish, but I’d be happy to assist you sweetie. It’s the least I can do for such a passionate but misguided fellow american. OK pumpkin?
February 1st, 2006 at 7:33 pmMy fear is that they could prevent investigators from checking their computers on the pretenses of: protecting national security, and preserving the constitutional rights of the president. It is truly disturbing that these guys are so anxius to destroy the common mans civil rights but they are so concerned about conflating the potus’s rights.
February 1st, 2006 at 7:45 pmOops inflate. Conflate means to blend sorry.
February 1st, 2006 at 7:50 pmMail Servers are backed up to Tape, Optical media or onto a SANS (Storage Area Network).
They are asking for the wrong thing. Their subpeona should not be for the Mail servers, but for the Tape Backups.
It would be there, unless someone went to painstaking efforts to remove it.
This is a FACT.
February 1st, 2006 at 8:44 pmMarie, yeah I’ve been reading about that. Another interesting move was Frederick Black’s investigation on Abramoff’s dealings in Guam in 2002. Black subpoenaed records from Guam Superior Court. The NEXT DAY he was fired by Bush after 11 or 12 years in his his position. Bush’s replacement had to recuse himself from the case because one of the investigation’s targets was his cousin.
February 1st, 2006 at 9:21 pmPost 70. is correct. If the tape backups are corrupted, it would have required expertise and access. I can’t imagine the list of those who had access to the tape backups is a long one. I can only pray that the Bush administration wasn’t smart enough to get to the backups. If they were, at least it’s obvious that there was an intent to hide/obstruct.
February 1st, 2006 at 10:07 pmThere is even more on this Fitzgerald letter on firedoglake.blogspot.com and dailyykos.com
February 2nd, 2006 at 12:45 amDeleted emails. Yes, and think back to the twelve-hour delay when Gonzales was informed of the order to preserve evidence and the time he actually gave the order to do so.
Gonzales had a bad week and it’s going to get worse.
#Isn’t it true that deleting emails doesn’t necessarily get rid of them? Didn’t Oliver North discover this? (I’m no techie.)
Comment by Danton — February 1, 2006 @ 3:54 pm
I find it odd that they mentions TAPES and Emails together.
February 2nd, 2006 at 2:57 amdoesnt quite jibe
#Isn’t it true that deleting emails doesn’t necessarily get rid of them? Didn’t Oliver North discover this? (I’m no techie.)
Comment by Danton — February 1, 2006 @ 3:54 pm
Even if you Delete the Email, it WAS sent thru the Networks to other Systems. Deleting the Email, or the Tape takes care of one perhaps if done quite carefully, both Ends Yet the wires In-between have ears =)
February 2nd, 2006 at 3:02 amCan you say …obstruction of justice?
Comment by cdad #2
cdad,
Only if we can say who did it!
February 2nd, 2006 at 8:56 amOh yea? How do you really know that Scottie? You’ve been fed lies before. The only thing his illegal surveillance get’s Bush is no oversight. So how can anyone say what he’s doing with the program? It has no oversight. What’s wrong with some oversight?
Comment by Solitaire #9
Solitaire,
In fact, the one thing one can deduce from Bushiva’s/NSA’a circumvention of FISA and “oversight” is that he/they did so precisely because he/they HAVE something to hide…
The latest is that the Bushites are refusing Congressional (Judiciary Committee) requests to see “classified” documents that outline the legal advice Al and the boys gave Bushiva on the legality/or not of the warrantless wiretapping…
…seems there was some dissention in ‘04 from some DOJ officials as to whether or not the program would be legal…
The criminal Bushite junta:
(to parrot a famous inbred maxim)
“The Gift that Keeps on Giving”
February 2nd, 2006 at 9:04 am#58 actually the words came right from the mouth of Judge Alito. But I guess when someone on the right is quoted directly and it makes them look bad, it must be some kind of plot against them. Examples: Abort all the black babies and lower crime, or No Human/Animal hybrids on my watch or the all time great “I don’t recall” later changed to “I guess I do recall now” Nope deny reality all you want and run into that wall you don’t believe exists.
Face it 30% of the people at most believe in the conservative agenda and maybe a like number believe in a liberal agenda, the true facts of the matter is that a majority of the people are in the middle or drift towards the middle. The republicans win because they market better and have a strategy of attack that they don’t waver from…right or wrong. They are capable of capturing single issue voters better than dems do. Republicans target right to lifers and NRA types, or the southern strategy of white fear of blacks knowing full well that if those people ever looked at the total picture they would be swinging the other way. Nope, the republicans convince people that their hot button issue, no matter what it is, is the one issue the republicans care most about.
I find it funny that you seem to support the most radically far right extremist administration in the history of our country and mock what you call the far left. But from where you stand you see yourself as the middle of the road when in fact the middle of the road is a scary bunch of radicals to your viewpoint.
February 2nd, 2006 at 9:25 amSubpoena the techs who work on the email servers and the backups. One of them will spill his/her guts and the whole thing will unravel. Fitz may have already done this and is just letting Scooter hang himself and anyone else that wants to.
If they used one of those DoD erasing programs, the emails would have been erased and overwritten many times and therefore, unrecoverable. I read that Gonzo supposedly didn’t notify the WH staff immedieatly so there was ample time for mischief.
At the very least, Fitz should be able to nail somebody for deleting emails and follow it up the food chain. If I were in that chain, I’d ask for written orders and keep hard copies. Doesn’t sound like Scooter was that smart, OR he was just helping Cheney determine his amount of exposure.
February 2nd, 2006 at 9:26 am“that many e-mails from Cheney’s office at the time of the Plame leak in 2003 have been deleted contrary to White House policy.â€
White House policy? Hahahaha! Their policy is to do whatever they want and then say “Go fuck yourself” if it’s illegal.
February 2nd, 2006 at 11:30 amJack
Ok, I’m not in complete agreement with this, but I see your point. Thanks for sharing.
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April 11th, 2008 at 10:57 pm