Think Progress

They write letters.

By Nico Pitney on Feb 1st, 2006 at 6:04 pm

They write letters.

Pentagon protests Washington Post cartoonist.

Comments
86

86 Responses to “They write letters.”

Spudge_Boy says:

What a joke, you can read the letter signed by General Pace and Admiral Giambastani here:

http://americablog.blogspot.com/tolesletter.pdf

And view the cartoon here:

http://americablog.blogspot.com/toles.gif

What the hell are two such ranking officials doing sending a letter about a cartoon.

We know the Bush administration doesn’t read the paper or they would have known just how bad hurricane Katrina was.

Jerks.

You know they got some letter from some religious PAC, had a PR person write the letter and the Joint Chiefs signed it.

Stooges, hacks and patsies.
February 1st, 2006 at 6:17 pm
unbelievable says:

Bush is getting away with spying, so why not allow the Pentagon to censor? Before long, my local Representatives will be inviting themselves over to my house for dinner. Who the Hell do they think they are?
February 1st, 2006 at 6:18 pm
itzabich says:

It sounds more like the military doesn’t want the great unwashed masses of potential enlistees to associate death and dismemberment with their pie-in-the-sky recruiting efforts.
February 1st, 2006 at 6:22 pm
S.D. says:

IMO, Let’s not make a mountain out of a Mole hill.

They expressed an Opinion, it was not an attempt to “Censor” the Post…

And No, before the Flame appears, I don’t Support GW…
February 1st, 2006 at 6:26 pm
For Truth says:

Didn’t seem like an attempt to censor, however is certainly an attempt to intimidate. Wouldn’t want the reality of it to be expressed, now would we.
February 1st, 2006 at 6:30 pm
For Truth says:

The reality of the war, i was saying.
February 1st, 2006 at 6:31 pm
Clif says:

Having served in Desert Storm I have a different take on the letter, The six generals who signed the letter are representing all service members and I can see their point, which is the indifference of the cartoon to the service members who have lost an arm or leg or worse and then see their sacrifice denigrated in this way. I agree the spirit of the letter, everybody has the right to draw cartoons that others find extremely offensive, the question is should they do it, by Tom Toles “no comment” I think he might rather have this one back because he didn’t think about the impact on real people, until the letter was brought to his attention. The cartoon is visually what we accuse the trolls here doing, taking an argument, that the army is overburdened and almost broke, which is true but to use the image of a severely disabled veteran to prove a political point is insensitive. I hope that we are slightly above that.
February 1st, 2006 at 6:37 pm
Red says:

I have to agree that the letter isn’t an attempt at censorship; they’re just expressing an opinion. Apparently they don’t GET the point of the cartoon – that Rumsfeld is an idiot, something they probably agree with – but they’re still entitled to their opinion.
February 1st, 2006 at 6:41 pm
G. Gordon Giddy says:

“Dictators of the right and the left fear the political cartoonist more than they do the atomic bomb. No totalitarian government can afford to be ridiculed”
-Art Buchwald-
February 1st, 2006 at 6:42 pm
Gregor Samsa says:

It’s the Bush administration favorite tactic: Shoot the messenger.

Sort of like when the allegations of torture came to light and those who revealed it were accused of treason.

For the neo-cons morality means keeping one’s crime well hidden under wraps.
February 1st, 2006 at 6:43 pm
G. Gordon Giddy says:

Arresting Cindy a “mistake”. All charges dropped.
February 1st, 2006 at 6:43 pm
Dumb Fox says:

I have one question for the Chiefs of Staff. They say the WaPo “owe the men and women and their families who so selflessly serve our country the decency to not make light of their tremendous physical sacrifices.”

If this is such a serious matter, WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF MADE A LIGHT OF THE TROOPS’ PHYSICAL SACRIFICES?

“As you can possibly see, I have an injury myself — not here at the hospital, but in combat with a Cedar. I eventually won. The Cedar gave me a little scratch. As a matter of fact, the Colonel asked if I needed first aid when she first saw me. I was able to avoid any major surgical operations here, but thanks for your compassion, Colonel.”

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/01/20060101.html
February 1st, 2006 at 6:45 pm
Terry says:

Have to agree with Cliff. The cartoon makes an excellent point about Rumsfeld, but by using the severly injured veteran to make it, the cartoonist is showing as much disrespect as Rumsfeld. I would have thought the joint chiefs had more pressing matters to deal with than cartoons and while not censorship, you have to wonder whether things would be going better if they spent more time on military as opposed to political issues.
February 1st, 2006 at 6:45 pm
David says:

I’ve seen far worse than that. The fact that there are so many amputees as a result of the occupation of Iraq is far more offensive than any cartoon.

Do people no longer understand the meaning of hyperbole? How about irony?
February 1st, 2006 at 6:49 pm
cynical ex-hippie says:

Did they write a letter when RNC members were wearing little purple heart band-aids?
February 1st, 2006 at 6:51 pm
Hardy Haberman says:

It’s not the cartoon that’s offensive, it’s Rummy and his cronies.
February 1st, 2006 at 6:51 pm
hardass says:

The Pentagon wants a military dictatorship a la South America and burn the constitution espacially the 1st. amendement .
Where has the pentagon been for the last 4 years and not delivering our troops with the body armor they needed .
If they feel threaten by this cartoon , they should be . It makes their imcompetancy so obvious.
February 1st, 2006 at 7:00 pm
Citizen80203 says:

It is another “manufactured outrage” designed for the eunuchs of the right. They will be outraged, OUTRAGED!, from the squatting confines of their ducked taped basements.
February 1st, 2006 at 7:20 pm
AkaDad says:

Spying, torture, arresting dissenters, Government propaganda, indefinite detention without legal representation, censoring cartoons and documents, cronyism, corruption, and invading soverign countries.

Let Freedom Ring…
February 1st, 2006 at 7:30 pm
wisedup says:

freedom of expression,press and speech, so stick it,little tin gods.
February 1st, 2006 at 7:31 pm
WORFEUS says:

Why not? Congress censored Cindy Sheehan last night.
February 1st, 2006 at 7:36 pm
WORFEUS says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

From the Bill of Rights
The First Ammendment of the Constitution of the United States
February 1st, 2006 at 7:38 pm
Judd says:

This was a highly unusual letter, but not really an attempt at censorship. I’ve updated the psot to reflect that.
February 1st, 2006 at 7:52 pm
WaltTheMan says:

Everybody, I lost a lot of buddies in Nam. Tom Toles may have thought that he was supporting our guys, but to trivalize disabling war injurys is a bit gross. This is the first of his editorial cartoons that made me wonder how far this nation has sunk. But, then, the State Of The Onion Address was a bit weak.
February 1st, 2006 at 8:02 pm
AkaDad says:

I’ll retract cencoring cartoons from,

Spying, torture, arresting dissenters, Government propaganda, indefinite detention without legal representation, censoring cartoons and documents, cronyism, corruption, and invading soverign countries.

Let Freedom Ringâ€¦
February 1st, 2006 at 8:02 pm
Clif says:

Walt I guess almost veteran that posts here can see the reason the JCS wrote the letter, it was for the soldiers and marines in Walter Reed and Bethesda naval Hospitals, to lose a limb is bad enough but to be caricatured for it just to make a political cartoon strikes of a low, and I thought the progressives here had a little bit more empathy for those kids who have had their lives torn apart as well as their bodies, it wouldn’t surprise me if in the next few days we don’t see some sort of apology from Mr. Toles to the injured veterans, but not to Rumsfeld. Rumsfeld is as guilty as Bush-Cheney for those vets misery, we all don’t have to add to it.
February 1st, 2006 at 8:12 pm
WaltTheMan says:

Thanks, clif.
February 1st, 2006 at 8:14 pm
Lisa says:

Excellent point, cynical ex-hippie. As with many things, I can see both sides. I understand the satire and I can understand how the cartoon could be misconstrued or potentially taken offensively by the thousands of maimed soldiers.

Isn’t it terribly sad that this kind of humor exists in relation to the reality it satirizes? Sometimes humor helps to overcome adversity. The unfortunate circumstances with this administration is that they’ve given our comedians practically infinite material to work with. If anyone has read Al Franken, for example, one laughs because the alternative isn’t better.

I would like MSM to start calling a spade a spade: Pres. Bush did NOT win either of his elections; he paid for them with alot of money and a hypocritical soul.
February 1st, 2006 at 8:16 pm
Clif says:

It’s funny I think Cindy Sheehan would understand the problen the vets have with that image.
February 1st, 2006 at 8:19 pm
Chris says:

Here is a great example of one of the fundamental differences between those on the right and those on the left. It takes less than a couple hours for Judd to listen to reasonable dialogue and then respond by changing the header. Listening and reasonable dialogue are 2 traits anathema to the current regime and their followers. Way to go Judd. Keep up the great work.

Chris
February 1st, 2006 at 8:21 pm
True Blue says:

Ok, the cartoon may be crass.
He is trying to make a point, however.
The gvt. trivializes these countless soldiers who come back with missing limbs.
Look at the hospital the PRIVATE sector is trying to build in San Antonio. The GVT. isn’t taking care of these people. Although it will be run by the Veteran’s Admin., it is still being funded privately. They have Imus calling for contributions every morning on his show.
This gvt. treats it’s soldiers as “throw-aways”. It’s disgraceful, and I think the message the cartoonist wanted to get across. But, as I said first, it IS crass.
Think of a different way, dude!
February 1st, 2006 at 8:25 pm
Bobbytoo says:

as i have said before….what a f…..g collapse of America.
February 1st, 2006 at 8:25 pm
Jay says:

Since when is the truth so offensive. Tom Toles cartoons are one of the few places in newspapers where you can actually find criticism of this war and this corrupt administration. Sure it’s ugly and its painful, but how do you think the thousands of kids that have lost limbs in Iraq feel? They make all the sacrifice and if the DoD and the Bushies have their way, none of the harsh realities will appear in U.S. media. No images of casualties, so the truth gets glossed over and this is one of the reasons not enough Americans are outraged. Maybe I’m all wet on this, but anything that brings the unnecessary pain and suffering closer to an end should be encouraged and I think the harsh realities of war (and the DoD’s poor treatment of our military) need more exposure not less. Just my 2cents.
February 1st, 2006 at 8:27 pm
Clif says:

True Blue the people building the hospital are refusing government financing to make a political point.
February 1st, 2006 at 8:28 pm
WaltTheMan says:

Jay,
It’s like torture to see a pal hauled away in a medivac. Especially when he leaves an arm or leg behind.
February 1st, 2006 at 8:36 pm
Gerald Gibson says:

7 How many years into the future are they to wait? Or are they unable to draw a cartoon like this about people in the American civil war? Or is that too fresh? The muslims want to censor cartoonists because they take offense to their mohamed being portrayed at all let alone as cartoons… well guess what thats life. Reality isnt roses and neither soldiers nor the religious devout have anything to say about people making cartoons about anything. I bet most people feel uncomfortable about seeing themselves in the same group as is being joked about by richard pryor or george carlin, but hey you are supposed to see the message not take it personally.

Soldiers are not wussies. In war they see far more than what this cartoon has shown. More likely these generals feel guilty for what has happened to these people and feel overly sensitive about things like this cartoon.
February 1st, 2006 at 8:45 pm
Ellie from Texas says:

I am so sick of everyone of walking eggshells for our military. They are murderers sent by King George and his repugnant Administration. I don’t care who’s feelings are hurt – how many Iraqis have had their feelings hurt because our military killed members of their family?
February 1st, 2006 at 8:51 pm
Jay says:

Walt,

I’d imagine that it is. Something that would probably be etched in your mind for the rest of your life.

I’m far more offended by the DoD than I am by Tom Toles, who’s expressing his true feelings with his art and revealing some painful truths in the process.
February 1st, 2006 at 8:52 pm
Clif says:

Gerald you don’t see the cartoon in combat and I saw a hell of alot worse on the road north of Kuwait City after the Air Force got done, but as a former company commander of a unit in Desert Storm there are certain things that you hope the civilian world won’t do, the cartoon is sort of a literary way to spit on a disabled soldier, and that is not what i think Mr. Toles had in mind. I know this may be a bit hard to understand but to a vet the kick in the gut feeling is there and that’s why I guess that cartoon bothered me so much, there are too many ways to bitch slap Donald Rumsfeld with the pen that dragging the pain and raw feelings of a recently disabled veteran should be avoided if possible.
February 1st, 2006 at 8:56 pm
Gerald Gibson says:

#37 Many of those “murderers” are liberals that were in the military expecting to be used for good purposes, but were sent to do neocon bidding instead. They are not murderers. When someone swears an oath like the ones military people do they would have to be ordered to attack Americans or the Constitution before they allow themselves to disobey. The military people learn that to survive they must not go around second guessing orders. Following orders is engrained because it saves their lives and the lives of their buddies when everyone works together as a single whole.

Has murder been commited? Yes. But the military is a gun. Just a tool. The one holding that gun and pulling the trigger is the Administration. The military didnt invade Iraq because it decided to. They were ordered. And they obeyed.
February 1st, 2006 at 8:56 pm
WaltTheMan says:

Jay,
OK, I’ll let it drift, but it still tugs at my soul.
February 1st, 2006 at 8:58 pm
Gerald Gibson says:

#39)
Sorry but you should look throughout history … those types of cartoons are always done and they served a serious purpose.

Soldiers want to be seen as heros either as dead men on the front line or as live men back home in a victory parade. But the truth is not all glory. And when the glory of war is used as an excuse for war then the ugly side MUST be kept fresh in the reality of our daily lives. Or else you end up with stupidty like we humans have done over and over again… where peoples lives are thrown away because some “leader” cant swallow his pride or people let themselves “forget” so they can go about their “normal” lives.

Some church people dont like hearing FUCK either but you know what….so what? The truth is those people should NOT be missing limbs for a war that isnt about protecting America. That is what is shameful. People should feel ashamed.
February 1st, 2006 at 9:02 pm
Jay says:

Clif, Walt,

Fair enough, you make good points and having never been in that situation myslef, I certainly believe in those that have.

I think we can all agree that this God forsaken war in Iraq needs to stop!
February 1st, 2006 at 9:06 pm
True Blue says:

True Blue the people building the hospital are refusing government financing to make a political point.

Comment by Clif

Really?
While Imus keeps degrading the gvt for not getting this done, and it’s actually THEM that has spurned aid???
Damn.

What links/ facts can you give me? (us)? Cause that’d be really stupid…
Thanks
February 1st, 2006 at 9:20 pm
Clif says:

Gerald I don’t disagree with your point about the ugliness of war, however your caricature of the vet as a hero is offthemark, most combat vets i know don’t talk about it much, but I don’t see how increasing the vets pain and suffering actually helps. The right gets to scream that today we are just the same as the stories of the taunts of Vietnam vets as baby killers or getting spit on. They don’t see the injustice of Rumsfeld’s indifference to the patient as a symbol of his disregard for the front line soldier, they see a total disrespect of the soldier. Most of the kids who end up in the military get there for economic reasons and do as they are told. While in the combat zone they just want to survive in one piece. The ones that end up on the nightmare trip to Walter Reed for rehabilitation don’t need this. And we don’t need to use them in a similar way the president did during the SOTU reading the dead Marines letter. Making political points out of others suffering is wrong irregardless of which political viewpoint you have.
February 1st, 2006 at 9:22 pm
Eargy Earp says:

As usual, Mr. Toles speaks directly to the issue. The portrayal does not show indifference to injured American soldiers; it points out Mr. Rumsfeld’s indifference to the disabled and stretched state of the armed forces, his indifference to provision of proper protection to our servicemen, and his indifference to any contradiction of his positions.

He has been an adamant man in the face the obvious his entire tenure.
February 1st, 2006 at 9:27 pm
from editor&publisher's site says:

Joint Chiefs Send Rare Protest Letter to ‘Wash Post’ Over ‘Reprehensible’ Toles Cartoon

By Joe Strupp, Dave Astor and Greg Mitchell

Published: February 01, 2006 4:25 PM ET

NEW YORK A Tom Toles editorial cartoon published in The Washington Post on Monday and on its Web site has drawn a very rare and very strong protest letter to the editors from all six members of The Joint Chiefs of Staff, E&P has learned.

The letter, not yet published by the Post, charges that the six military leaders “believe you and Mr. Toles have done a disservice to your readers and your paper’s reputation by using such a callous depiction of those who have volunteered to defend this nation, and as a result, have suffered traumatic and life-altering wounds. … As the Joint Chiefs, it is rare that we all put our hand to one letter, but we cannot let this reprehensible cartoon go unanswered.”

A Pentagon spokeswoman confirmed the contents of the letter to E&P late this afternoon. That the newspaper had received such a letter was reported on the popular AmericaBlog site, which is run by John Aravosis, this morning.

The spokeswoman said a letter from all six joint chiefs to anyone, let alone a newspaper, is rare, but the cartoon so offended them, they wanted to let their feelings be known. “It was expressing their disappointment with the paper and outrage at using that image to make a political point,” said Lt. Col. Diane Battaglia. “That is a rare occurrence, but the level of inappropriateness prompted a response of unanimous support.”

Battaglia said Post editors told her office that the letter would be published in Thursday’s paper. Editorial Page Editor Fred Hiatt declined to comment on the letter. “My policy is I can’t talk about letters until we publish them,” he told E&P. “If and when a letter runs, I’d be happy to talk about it.”

Reached by E&P, Tom Toles said, “no comment.”

The Toles cartoon shows a soldier, a quadriplegic, in a hospital, being visited by a Dr. Rumsfeld who is scribbling on a form. Rumsfeld says, “I am listing your condition as battle hardened.” At the bottom a smaller figure of the doctor adds, “I’m prescribing that you be stretched thin. We don’t define that as torture.”

The letter, signed by Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Admiral Edmund P. Giambastini, Jr., the vice-chairman, and the four other military branch leaders — and addressed to the Post’s managing editor, Philip Bennett — reveals that they were “extremely disappointed” in the Toles cartoon. “Using the likeness of a service member who has lost his arms and legs in war as the central theme of a cartoon is beyond tasteless,” they wrote.

They observed that the paper is “obviously free to address any topic,” even use exaggeration. But they added: “While you or some of your readers may not agree with the war or its conduct, we believe you owe the men and women and their families who so selflessly serve our country the decency to not make light of their tremendous physical sacrifices.”

Aravosis from AmericaBlog told E&P: “Now that the Joint Chiefs have addressed the insidious threat cartoons pose to our troops, perhaps they can move on to less pressing issues like getting them their damn body armor.”
February 1st, 2006 at 9:27 pm
Clif says:

True Blue I heard them on Imus one morning and they were making hay out of the fact that they were going to build the hospital with no help from the federal bureaucrats, and they would give the building to the VA to run. I got the implication that they thought the vets deserved the help but wanted the private NGO to pick up and carry the burden, I know the fault of their thinking, having my first enlistment in 1975 when i got out in 1979 i had a minor shoulder injury and had to go to the VA for treatment, back then the vets problem was not the cause of the month so we only had the VA there, after Desert Storm I was declared 100% disabled and have spent quite a bit of time in the VA getting treatment and having seen how fast the general public forgets. But the vets can’t so even though this groups intentions are good their willingness to stay the course for the rest of the vets life who will depend of what ever care is given I am not so sure of. I would rather the federal government keep their obligation than hope the private sector charity that can disappear with no consequences
February 1st, 2006 at 9:33 pm
True Blue says:

…they were making hay out of the fact that they were going to build the hospital with no help from the federal bureaucrats, …
Hi Clif,
I think you may have heard it wrong, because Imus has been blasting the gvt. for not getting this done on their own, and making us ‘ol regular folk pay for it. That’s what’s got him so peeved.
The gvt still treats the soldiers like crap. These poor people. Most of them aren’t even kids. Nat’l Guard Units with 40+ y.o.’s going there… disgraceful…..
February 1st, 2006 at 9:44 pm
Don says:

Jay,
You’re definitely not “all wet.” Rumsfeld has belittled military casualties before without any reaction from the Joint Chiefs, but now that he’s in the pan the kiss-ass generals (the survivors) have to sign a letter to a newspaper about a cartoon, led by the Chief butt-kisser Peter Pace.
February 1st, 2006 at 9:46 pm
True Blue says:

sorry, Cliff,
My typing skills are so bad you responded to me before I could type my initial response….!
God, I can’t wait to get a new computer…!!!!
(This is so slow!)
February 1st, 2006 at 9:46 pm
Clif says:

No the government has been quietly privatising parts of the VA for years, and the person I heard specifically stated they didn’t want government funding. They have privatised alot of active duty care, it’s part of the mantra of the right the private sector can do it better cheaper, but all they really want to do is get some of the federal funding that congress appropriates for veterans care or what ever government program they are railing about.
February 1st, 2006 at 9:49 pm
mr ho says:

Anne Coulter said POISON Judge Stevens, then it was a ‘Joke.’ And They Say Nothing at all.
Now a Guy Draws a Cartoon, which is a bit over the top, but thats America, I see crude things on South park as Well, The Boy in The Vagina, the Sattelite antenna in the Anus, ,,

Now the HYPOCRITS of the Toles CARTOON need to also ADDRESS Anne Coulters Language and that of Pat Blow you up Robertson and Oriellys remarks about San Franciso. AND those were real words, not Cartoons.

Hypocrites To the End The Rush Limbaugh Emotional Drama mamas
February 1st, 2006 at 9:56 pm
mr ho says:

Rumsfeld when asked about torture, and the Prisoners suffering when feeding tubes were put in, without Anesthesia, Rummy callously remarked in his blow you off style “…Im not a Doctor”
February 1st, 2006 at 10:00 pm
Eargy Earp says:

I notice a key word whenever criticism is particularly warranted: Reprehensible.

When suggested that the President or anyone in the administration misled or lied : Reprehensible.

Suggest that the President follow FISA: Reprehensible

Suggest that callous Rumsfeld doesn’t see the damage he’s done to the military: Reprehensible

Ask for a little tolerance and suggest that Cheney’s daughter is gay, too: Reprehensible.

“History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.” – Twain
Reprehensible!
February 1st, 2006 at 10:18 pm
Eargy Earp says:

Know what? I messed up the Twain quote. Reprehensible!
February 1st, 2006 at 10:21 pm
SpudgeBoy says:

Okay, it is like this.

Saying that Tom Toles can’t depict the image of a soldier who has lost limbs due to this illegal war is the same as saying that our dead should come hom ein the middle of the night where nobody can see them.

I am a veteran also. I have seen horrors. War is hell. Literaly hell on Earth.

But, the first thing I said to myself when I saw that cartoon was “Exactly”

This is the truth. It is what IS happening. To say that people shouldn’t write about or create cartoons about the fact that the same soldiers are being rotated back into battle on a regular basis is a lie. With the “stop loss” that is going on, you have soldiers who have been in Iraq way over the amount of time they should be. Nobody should be subjected to hell over and over. People need to talk about this isssue and if it takes a cartoon to get it in front of the average person, then so be it.

Freedom of speech 100%
February 1st, 2006 at 10:55 pm
shaun says:

this is an editorial cartoon. when you see an elephant in an editorial cartoon, it is not really an elephant. there really aren’t that many cartoonists drawing funny gags about the lives of elephants and donkeys. things in editorial cartoons represent other things. sometimes it’s obvious and somtimes the analogy is pretty weak.

the wounded soldier is not a wounded soldier – he represents the US ARMED FORCES. it even says US ARMY on the chart on the bed for cryin out loud.

rummie wouldn’t call a wounded soldier “battle hardened” but he might use it as a cover for the state of our crippled military. you can’t stretch a soldier thin but rummie sure can stretch the US ARMED FORCES thin. i get it and i don’t even have any nukes. i would hope that the Joint Chiefs wouldn’t need their sunday papers explained to them.
February 1st, 2006 at 11:03 pm
Lisa says:

Were these high level officials voicing their disappointment when they found out the Rummy hadn’t been signing the grievance letters to the families of lost soldiers? Were they indignant when the Rove mongers were bashing Kerry during the 2004 campaign? And to reiterate ex-hippies point, did they express their disapproval when the Republicans wore purple heart bandaids?

“it points out Mr. Rumsfeldâ€™s indifference to the disabled and stretched state of the armed forces, his indifference to provision of proper protection to our servicemen, and his indifference to any contradiction of his positions.”
-Eargy Earp

also says it very well. If the Repub’s are going to complaign about the Dem’s “picking flecks out of fly sh*t (as my grandmother would say)”, maybe they should quit dissecting it as well. Bottom line, reality hurts. And it should be hurting the one’s who are responsible for maiming and killing our military and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians.
February 1st, 2006 at 11:19 pm
Max-1 says:

I have to say, that after my last discussion with someone else(not here mind you) about how we are in the throws of reliving the past mistakes of humanity that we’ve forgotten our grade school and high school education, that reading the article only reinforces my argument.

History only repeats its self
When it has been forgotten.

Censorship is the dedication
The elixir of our death.
February 2nd, 2006 at 6:22 am
Gus, the Loving OBGYN says:

The “Hardened” remark really needed a little satire. Rumsfeld is a joke and a liar like his master.
February 2nd, 2006 at 7:10 am
Gus, the Loving OBGYN says:

50% of Iraqis want to kill American soldiers. 100% of Americans don’t care.
February 2nd, 2006 at 7:11 am
Democrat Soldier says:

When the right wing apologizes for comparing former Senator Max Cleland to Osama bin Laden, and when Ann (transvestite) Coulter apologizes for implying that he dropped a grenade on purpose to get into politics, THEN Tom Toles should apologize for his cartoon.

I’ve spoken to my friends who’ve come back from this war for oil with missing limbs, and only one found this cartoon offensive. He did agree that political cartoons do sometimes go over the top, and this is not the first one to do so, and that there are some anti Pres. Clinton cartoons that should never have been done. He does feel that this one was rather painful for him.

Not all of my friends, however, feel the same way. One friend said “It’s how many soldiers feel about their treatment since they’ve been back in the US.”
February 2nd, 2006 at 8:24 am
Evil Spaniard says:

IMHO, political debate in the USA tends to be too polite, and abstracted from reality too far. Died soldiers coffins aren’t showed at the media, no photos of torture or dead Irakis, no iraki body counts, softened language as in “battling terrorists” while razing Fallujah when there were civilians living, “rules of engagement” after spreading with bullets the car of the italian secret service who rescued an italian journalist and effectively killing the rescuer, or the recent firing at the car with four canadian diplomats…

The dissociation of feelings with actions of the american society, due to his self-censorship and politeness is the same mental reality disengagement that psychopats have from their killings, sorry to say it. And the professionalization of the military worsened it. Now, only “those who want” go there. Think of this too: growingly, the USA GOP trusts more and more in “security enterprises”, enterprises of mercenaries, as BlackWater, worsening the social disengagement of people with the wars and atrocities wagged by his country. John Q. Public push back of his mind the whole picture a bit more every day, and don’t cares about soldiers or civilians “there”. Reality bytes, but reality needs to be said, or it will be lost to demagogues (think Rove & Bush).

I know that a great share in the military of the USA has seen ugly things, but an even bigger share in the USA have been never in combat, and media don’t show the real ugly things over there. A cartoon, while shocking for some people, would help some people to realize some realities. Remember, some posters said in this same thread that veterans aren’t happy talking of those atrocities, media hides a great % to not disgust people, and GOP isn’t eager to show unfavorable pictures. Then, what? Too much civilians will think of a rosy picture of Irak, or “feel” that the status of the Irak War isn’t so wrong or the goals aren’t so misleading and elusive.

It’s because this dissociation Bush is yet in power and why the USA is seen with suspicion all over the world.
February 2nd, 2006 at 8:39 am
big papa says:

When are we going to be “allowed” to see pictures of dead, decapitated, and eviscerated Afghan and Iraqi women and children in the MSM?

Maybe THEN the red state chickkkenhawk inbreds and their Stepford wives and children would want an end to this madness!
February 2nd, 2006 at 8:45 am
big papa says:

100% of Americans donâ€™t care.

Comment by Gus, the Loving OBGYN #62

Not true Gus…
February 2nd, 2006 at 8:47 am
Common Sense Radical says:

It’s no surprise that most Americans’ cerebral cortices are a bit mucky, what with all the bovine fecal matter the state-controlled media have been pumping into them for the past five years, but try to clear out the clogs long enough to perceive that Tom Toles is honoring the severely disabled vet, not disrespecting him/her. In his cartoon, it is RUMSFELD who is doing the disrespecting when he dismisses the vet’s horrendous injuries as mere “battle hardening.” For those of you who are unable to read graphically I’ll translate the cartoon’s message into plain English: “Look how shabbily this administration treats the heroes who have literally given everything in aid of their dirty little war!” Now, if you still don’t get it, maybe you’d best go join the Repugs, where you’ll meet all kinds of wonderfully thick-headed folks just like you.
February 2nd, 2006 at 9:17 am
Giacomo says:

While I can see both sides of this debate, I do think it was a rather callous representation of the “realities” of war for several reasons but chiefly … If I were a soldier who supported the war (and my injuries were similar to the cartoon), I would feel extremely used … while it may be that the cartoonist was “supporting” me, that’s not the message I’d, personally, receive if I were the one injured. Remember, we have a cartoonist depicting a war (that he clearly has issues with) by showing injuries that actually exist … his cartoon isn’t a hypothetical stretch to make a point … there’s a man or woman in a hospital right now that resembles his art. The injured person is being used by the cartoonist to make a point … if that person doesn’t agree with the point being made, how much more would he/she feel used … perhaps even unnappreciated.

I could imagine feeling like, “I go to war … to protect my country … get horribly injured … so this guy can casually depict my injury for a political statement … wow … you’re welcome … glad I afforded you the chance to score a political “blow” … “. This is just my OPINION on this issue … I agree that it’s biased by my conservatism … but there are plenty of conservative soldiers that feel the same way … shouldn’t the cartoonist considered this ???? Apologies for rambling …
February 2nd, 2006 at 9:54 am
Cyra Brown says:

I don’t recall hearing about a letter to the President about a little video he made. The one where he is “searching” a room, looking for those elusive “WMD’s”, you know, the entire reason he used for invading Iraq in the first place? He played it for laughs, remember? Now that is what I call offensive.
February 2nd, 2006 at 10:16 am
Solitaire says:

# If I were an elephant, I’d feel used by the GOP. If I were a general, a politician, a lobbyist, a lawyer, I would be so offended by most cartoons! Cartoonists should stop making pictures of people. It sends a message and gets people riled up. Look what happened to Sweden and Norway over that picture of their prophet Mohammed in a cartoon.
Clearly, we can’t afford that kind of freedom. There are so many people willing to stifle it, why put up with the stormy waters? Just forbid cartoons. That’ll take care of it.
February 2nd, 2006 at 11:00 am
bushllit says:

ahh, I just sent this out to some buddys with the subject “Cartoonist Draws Millitary Fire”
February 2nd, 2006 at 11:11 am
Evil Spaniard says:

Just a bit of info: depicting Mahommed in ANY way is a sin according to islamic teachings. So, making a satirical cartoon or Mahommed is a grave offence to any religious muslim.

Don’t understand? Think of a pr0n movie starred by Jesuchrist. Now you get the feeling.

Such a basic misunderstanding (or willful ignorance, wich is worse) is a common place for everyone in the Bush Cabal. And is generic with Iraq and the whole world.
February 2nd, 2006 at 11:35 am
big papa says:

I could imagine feeling like, â€œI go to war â€¦ to protect my country â€¦ get horribly injured â€¦ so this guy can casually depict my injury for a political statement

Comment by Giacomo #68

Hey jaggoffmore,

I’ll go you one better…

How about being the mother (or father) of a DEAD soldier, killed in the service of his/her country…

…who is slandered and libeled daily by those “conservatives” (that’d be you inbreds) who profess to SUPPORT the troops so much…

How about being that parent and being unceremoniously assaulted, handcuffed and physically pushed out of a government building that is supported by YOUR tax dollars, for exercising your God-given and constitutional right to free speech?

jaggoffmore, run and do what you do best…

…give yourself a hand…
February 2nd, 2006 at 12:33 pm
David says:

â€œIt was expressing their disappointment with the paper and outrage at using that image to make a political point,â€

I’m sorry to all that I am about to offend. This is bullshit. Using war to make a political point is far more outrageous. Using real soldiers as political props is far more ooutrageous than a cartoon depiciton of one. JCS are offended at a cartoon? A cartoon?!!! That cartoon didn’t get some poor kids arms or legs blown off, or worse. Claiming the occupation of Iraq is being done to defend the US is offensive to anyone who can think rationally.

In the words of the P-Funk masters: If you don’t like the effect, don’t produce the cause.
February 2nd, 2006 at 1:37 pm
RightPunch says:

“If I were a soldier who supported the war (and my injuries were similar to the cartoon), I would feel extremely used â€¦ Giacomo”

I think that’s the point pumpkin, many soldiers do feel used by the country that put them in this unnecessary meat grinder. You’re just putting your own partisan brain on how soldiers feel. For instance the ‘Marlboro’ man who’s so famous for his service, valor and image has now come out as an opponent of the war.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article342643.ece

So while people might feel used, and you claim to be able to see both sides of the situation, you should know that both sides are not typically represented by the media. Why isn’t this a topic on the MSM everywhere if both sides are to be heard as you say?

“if that person doesnâ€™t agree with the point being made, how much more would he/she feel used â€¦ perhaps even unnappreciated. Giacomo”

That’s the challenge of being an adult. Cartoons don’t have to be ‘politically correct’ just because you don’t agree with them do they? I keep hearing all of the republicans complain about how everyone is so politically correct – and yet here you are defending political correctness when you don’t agree with the outcome. Even though this picture DOES represent at least a significant number of people. Are you saying that unless a cartoon represents 100% of the people 100% of the time that it shouldn’t be printed?

Giacomo, your partisan brain makes you write the silliest and just most nonsense things sometime. But I forgive you. Clearly you’re not trying to be malicious or hateful, it’s just that in your effort to be sensitive to some, you’re ironically doing the thing you accuse those cartoonists of – not representing a set of people who want to be heard.

Does that make any sense pumpkin, or is partisan brain too strong in you today? Is the force with you pumpkin? ;)
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They write letters.

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