Congressional support for warrantless surveillance
By on Feb 11th, 2006 at 11:02 am
Congressional support for warrantless surveillance
is crumbling. “When Representative Heather A. Wilson broke ranks with President Bush on Tuesday to declare her “serious concerns” about domestic eavesdropping, she gave voice to what some fellow Republicans were thinking, if not saying. Now they are speaking up — and growing louder…A growing number of Republicans say the program appears to violate the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act…”
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Their thinking: “Elections are coming up!!!”
Despite what the talking head on Fox Entertainment say, People really don’t like this NSA “Program”.
Maybe the Congress and Senate will finaly grow a Backbone and excercise the checks and balances the Constitution has built into it???
February 11th, 2006 at 11:08 amIt seems to me that even the people who are still backing the program are hanging their hats on the fact that all surviellance was only done on foreign correspondance with terrorists. This provides a convenient cover for Republican hardliners.
I have a feeling that if (or more like “when”) it becomes clear that they were eavesdropping on innocent Americans domestically, the rats will leave the ship.
February 11th, 2006 at 11:14 amDemocrats allowed this to happen.
February 11th, 2006 at 11:15 amonly a monkey would say that the warrantless wiretaps aren’t a violation of FISA.
i wish more attention would be paid to the fact that the warrantless wiretaps are a violation of the Constitution, which is even worse.
Gonzales “testified” at the Judicial Committee hearing that they don’t even have to have probable cause!! Under the 4th Amendment, NO searches are Constitutional WITHOUT probable cause.
our “freedoms” are going down the drain and fast. I don’t care which side of the political fence you’re sitting on, this is an issue that all of us should be condemning.
after all, for the Republicans and other right wingers that respond to anti-war activism by saying “soldiers fight for your freedoms” I respond….. without my fundamental rights to privacy and with the Bush Administration spying on me IN MY HOME, what Freedom?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
February 11th, 2006 at 11:18 am“I think there’s two things going on,” said Mr. Graham, a Judiciary Committee member. “There’s an abandonment of you-broke-the-law rhetoric by the Democrats and a more questioning attitude about what the law should be by the Republicans. And that merges for a very healthy debate.”
-Lindsey Graham (Republiscum Senator from SC)
As long as they (Democrats) don’t try to expose our (inbreds’) president as a lying, megalomaniacal felon then we ca talk about this illegal wiretapping thing…
What a big thick steaming pile of republiscum inbred bullsh*t!
Bushiva broke the law…AGAIN…
…and AGAIN we’re supposed to turn the other a*s cheek…
February 11th, 2006 at 11:19 amWell look who decided to join the f@ck!ng party!
February 11th, 2006 at 11:24 amGottamit, these people are slow to realize anything.
No wonder the country is going down the sh!tter.
Maybe by 2010 they’ll finally come to their senses and realize 9-11 was an inside U.S. governement/military job and the information used to go to war against Iraq was false, even though the information that’s out there presented by officials now is alredy overwhelmingly convincing. WTF is going on here!? Are these people completely dumb, deaf, and blind, or are they just American?
Remember, the rightwingers were ready to blow up federal buildings in the 90’s because the federal government was becoming too intrusive and aloof?
These clowns must have been drinking to much bathtub gin the last 5 years to notice the new terror-related federal government is starting to look alot like Joe Stalins old Politburo, cronies and dissappearing pictures and memory holes and all.
Wake up right-wingers, the Bush machine is taking your rights away faster than lightning.
Wake-up.
-GSD
February 11th, 2006 at 11:36 amSerious question – I’ve been arguing with some conservative friends about the wiretaps and I need some help. Does anyone have links or info to help me locate the specific accusations that the NSA spying was actually being conducted (purposefully or accidently) on domestic US communications? My friends keep going back to the “only foreign and only terrorists calling in or out of the US” and I know I heard otherwise somewhere. Can anybody back this up?
February 11th, 2006 at 11:55 amI don’t have data. No one can. Their argument is falacious in that there is no way of verifying who they are spyng on and when because there is no oversight whatsoever. This is the basis for Consitutional and legal limiting powers and providing oversight when American citizens may be involved.
Even if you would like to trust that the Administration is only doing what is right; oversight by a separate branch (i.e. Judicial) is needed to verify that. It’s no big deal. Just use FISA or change the law to make it more efficient and ensure security of classified info. It IS important, even several days after the fact to have an independent branch verify that a warrant is ….warranted.
Relying on the performance of the Administration over the last 5 years, it’s ultra-secrecy and cronyism…how can even a conservative trust that the administration will only use it’s power against Al Quaeda terrorists. Are they using this power against Quakers in Fla. IT’s good to conduct surveillance on suspected terrorist, just provide for oversight to ensure that abuse (expansion to define other groups as terrorist, or political) does no happen.
Most rational conservatives (not the believe in Bush as the God ordained croud) will or have come to this sensible position. Trust …but verify!
February 11th, 2006 at 12:19 pmi hate to break it to everyone, but this administration doesn’t care what the Congress thinks. 15 some odd recess appointments when his own party , which he is the leader of, doesn’t get to decide, that sounds like very little room for descent. I suggset everyone go buy the books “The War for Muslim Minds” by Gilles Kepel and “Inside Al-Queda” by Rothan Gunaranta. From Leo Strauss on to the current group, Perele, Wolfowitz, rumsfeld, and of course darth Sideious Mr.Richard Cheney, the Kepple book lays it out beautifully and Gunaratna’s gives you the mechanics of Al-Qualude. This plan to Invade iraq has been around since before the PNAC formation. the current grabs for power, no oath for the Ag before the Senate, The release of classified info by the VP is all part of the plan to solidify power using the attacks of 911 as a catalyst with the AUMF and article II and a couple of the right judges providing Constitutional cover. Notice the current vacancies over at the 3 District court of appeals, Alito and Chertoff. All part of the plan.
February 11th, 2006 at 12:27 pmTo think that her actions were noble is to be kidding yourself. She’s going to provide cover.
February 11th, 2006 at 12:29 pmeural – start with a google search – “quakers, spying”
February 11th, 2006 at 12:29 pmyou will probably find where to go from there…
What a bunch of gutless wimps.
The fact is that terrorist monitoring is the right thing to do, and it will continue, no matter what a bunch of RINOs and a bunch of Leftists say.
February 11th, 2006 at 12:32 pm“Gonzales “testified†at the Judicial Committee hearing that they don’t even have to have probable cause!! Under the 4th Amendment, NO searches are Constitutional WITHOUT probable cause.” — Banana
**********************
Unfortunately, he’s not the only official recently to claim that the Fourth Amendment makes no reference to “probable cause” and that the wiretaps are therefore justifiable. A recent article in Editor And Publisher details verbatim an exchange between a reporter and Michael Hayden, former national director of the NSA, during which Hayden appears to make the claim that the specific phrase “probable cause” does not appear in the Fourth Amendment when in fact it does. Instead, he makes it appear as though “probable cause” has been jettisoned in favor of “reasonable belief”. While it’s possible that he was substituting a different phrase to refer to the same concept, the two are not necessarily the same. Here’s the link:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001883620
If I’m not mistaken, “probable cause” requires more than a simple hunch or suspicion — it also requires that the investigating officials supply one or two pieces of information which appear to confirm their suspicions. This is because people in this country are (or are supposed to be!) guilty until proven innocent. Investigating citizens and residents of the US merely on the basis of a suspicion without any burden of proof effectively reverses this principle and assumes that the person is guilty before any actual evidence has been obtained — and this is a VERY dangerous precedent to set.
P.S. to Eural — you may find the following link usefl since it may be the story that you remember. A recent article in the Washington Post reports that the intelligence officers in charge of monitoring these calls have dismissed nearly all of them as showing no evidence of relationship to terrorism — that fewer than ten people per year have been identified by this program as making calls that show suspicious indicators warranting further attention (including surveillance of domestic calls). This article very clearly indicates that this program is monitoring the overseas calls of citizens and residents of the United States — not simply foreign visitors and/or known terrorists. The White House refuses to disclose the exact number of people who have been put under surveillance — but it’s estimated to be in the thousands. Doesn’t it seem likely that this dragnet would be catching more people if probable cause were truly the benchmark being used? Instead, it appears that we’ve been wasting valuable manpower on wild goose chases…
February 11th, 2006 at 12:33 pmWhy are Democrats trying to pretend they support spying now? Could it be the new AP Ipsos poll out that shows spying support has increased?
The GOP is setting you brownshirts up. They will act like they are divided, get liberals where they want them and then GUT them. You pathetic morons fall for it every time.
February 11th, 2006 at 12:33 pmyou’re right, terrorist monitoring is the right thing to do…
February 11th, 2006 at 12:35 pmeverybody knows that…now go away…
Katy – you fall for it every time!
February 11th, 2006 at 12:36 pm#8 – It has been provent that they are monitoring the Quakers and tha ACLU. These groups have requested FOIA’s from the government on if they were on the list, and guess what they were.
So obviously, it is not related to just terrorists. Besides, if we have THOUSANDS of terrorists in this country I would say that we have a serious issue wouldnt you?
Tell them that there is nothing wrong with wiretapping terrorists, but its when they just start listening to everyone in order to find the terrorists is where the issue is.
Ask them if they would feel comfortable with the government forming block sweeps of houses and entering their house day or night without a warrant to search for evidence of a person being a terrorist? This is essentially the same thing. When they grab hundred of thousands of electronic data and search through it for signs of someone being a terrorist then we have a problem. Also, without oversight who’s to say that the information will not be used against that person at a later date?
It has already been reported, forgot where, that Colin Powell and Jimmy Carter were monitored with this program. So are they terrorists? Carter was listened to when talking with Cuba, and I forget who Powell was talking with.
Ask them what are they so affraid of? Ask them why they are not mad because the president did not listen to the FBI or CIA before 9/11 when they were jumping up and down that something was going to happen. Ask them why didnt the president do anything when the PDB said “bin laden determined to strike US, imminent”.
Ask them if they are confident that the president will listen to his FBI and CIA people when they say an American on the list is not a spy. Much like he listened to them when they told him that much of his informtation was not correct for the Iraq war.
Ask them if they are mad because the president did not listen to the information he and his administration had before Katrina? Ask them if they really believe that even if they get any information if they really feel that this president will really do anything with it? Ask them if they are CONFIDENT that the Kerry campain was not listened too?
Ask them that with all the problems that has come to light about what this president has done, or rather what he has failed to do, is not a reason to even question his program?
Hope this helps?
February 11th, 2006 at 12:37 pmOooops…forgot the link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/04/AR2006020401373.html
February 11th, 2006 at 12:37 pmMr. Ruppert all I can say is there is going to be a new acronym and it’s going to be RIRO, republicans in retirement only. One day when you pull your uber patriotic ankle grabbing head out of your lower 40 you will realize there is a right and a wrong way to do something and you can explain to your children why they can’t travel any where safely in the world as an American. Yes we were attacked on 911 yes saddam was a muderous thug but the absolute crudness this team has approched a machiavellian damn the torpedoes only proves they do not care for what the rest of America thinks. This country is run by the people not some ideological thugs with their OWN agenda.
February 11th, 2006 at 12:43 pm#8 One other thing to ask them. Ask them if they fly alot?
Because with this program if they say any key words they can be listed on the no-fly-list and they will not be able to fly. They will not be able to dispute it. They will not be able to find out why they were put on the list. They will have to go through the same process that a CONVICTED FELON has to in order to be removed from the list.
Is this the country that they really want? There are 5 year old kids on the no-fly-list. Are they terrorists? So you see this is the problem. When you just collect millions of peoples data and analyze it and based on key words enact upon them without investigation, then you have a FACIST country.
February 11th, 2006 at 12:47 pmAble,
No really, the conservatives are doing a heckuva job. Record bankruptcies, record trade deficits, a US/Mexican border that leaks like a sieve with Mexican Federales crossing in US territory, the North Korean nuclear program has been unfettered for 5 years now, Iran–after meeting with the Iraqi prime minister and radical cleric Moqtada al Sadr is telling the US to fuck-off and is continuing with their nuclear program for 5 years on now, US troops are dying at a clip of two a day in Iraq, billions of dollars for water projects, soccer fields, and school painting in Iraq while the US budgets for these same projects are cut, Russia is meeting with Hamas, Hamas is taking over Palestine, Pakistan is in the midst of a low grade civil war, Afghanistan is returning to the Taliban, New Orleans is still sunk in mud, crystal meth is sweeping the midwest, health care costs are skyrocketing, the former Connecticut Governor just got out of jail, the Whitehouse, Senate Majority Leader and the former House Leader are all under investigation, Phillipino spies in Cheney’s office are under arrest, former Whitehouse procurement officer is under arrest, gay prostitutes roam freely through the Whitehouse, the head of the RNC is in the closet, gas prices are at $2.50 a gallon.
I agree, the real problem is the Democrats even though the Republicans control the House, Senate, Whitehouse and Media.
Go git ‘em. Have Ann Coulter call for murders, have Pat Robertson call for assassinations, have Karl Rove slander and lie for you. It is all part of God’s plan for God’s chosen people.
Hello ancient Rome, Hail Ceasar Bush.
Heckuva job.
-GSD
February 11th, 2006 at 12:47 pmNo sh!t Gary Ruppert. The problem is not getting warrants to do so dumbass.
February 11th, 2006 at 12:50 pmWe always have, when a warrant is obtained. Idiot.
February 11th, 2006 at 12:51 pmIn my opinion there will be MANY more apparent thug conversions. Do not be deceived. They are simply trying to escape the inferno. Strike them down and leave them where they fall. The country is at stake here.
February 11th, 2006 at 12:56 pmIT’s Way Way PAST TIME 2 JAIL Bu$h Family, NeoCons Friends & ALL Connected 2 Em.
NEW… PROTEST IMAGES U CAN DOWN LOAD at…
http://www.RogerART.com
Go Get Em… And PASS Em ON,
If U Want 2 Help Push the R-Evolution ON
+ Ameri-Can Save Democracy NOW
February 11th, 2006 at 1:10 pm.
evidence of whether they are spying on non-terrorist-average joes–
i can’t remember which Senator it was, but at the Judiciary Committee hearing of Alberto, one Senator had an Average JOe as a guest at the Judiciary Committee hearing, who wrote a letter to the NSA asking if the NSA had eavesdropped on his telephone conversations.
the NSA responded that they could neither admit, deny, nor provide any response to Average Joe about whether indeed there had been any eavesdropping of his telephone conversations.
nor would Gonzales “testify” to the amount of people whose phone conversations were being listened to.
I would like to know whether my conversations have been listened to when my Muslim friends from abroad contact me…. i hope so, because it’s the only way that Bush will listen to how I feel about him :-)
no, really…..they really do need probable cause to search, and wiretapping phone conversations constitutes a search (Katz, U.S. Supreme Court).
February 11th, 2006 at 1:11 pmThe fact is that the War Declaration gave Bush the power to order spying on terrorists.
The resolution says Bush can do anything needed to stop terrorism.
February 11th, 2006 at 1:14 pmdo you all remember the tv commercial – it’s been a bunch of years – about the dad buying his sweet little red-haired girl the object of her desire with his (ad-about) credit card? the sales person asked him why he decided to buy this object, against his better judgement…the dad answered “relentless”, looking at his angelic/ornery looking little girl…
just reminds of someone here…relentless…
February 11th, 2006 at 1:19 pmNO, wrong-winger, the War Declaration, prepared by Congress, did not authorize warrantless wiretapping of Americans in its AUMF resolution, and the Senators at the Judiciary Committee hearing of Gonzales, who prepared that resolution, explicitly stated that Congress DID NOT authorize warrantless eavesdropping.
Furthermore, O’Connor, in her Hamdi opinion stated that the AUMF was not a blank check for the Administration to violate our Constitutional rights.
Courts look to the legislative intent in construing statutes and resolutions….and the Senators explicitly stated that they DID NOT grant this authority to the Executive Branch.
you’re wrong, but what should I expect from a wrong-winger?
February 11th, 2006 at 1:20 pmLet them all put their votes where their mouths are. Count ‘em up and when the number reaches 250 start the impeachment. It doesn’t matter whether they lead or follow just don’t let them get in the way. Impeach the bastards now!
#28 You and I are not reading the same resolution. The one I saw gave the President the authorization to use whatever ARMED FORCES were necessary. Those crooked wimpy wiretappers are far from a platoon of Marines, a boatload of Navy Seals, or the Delta Force.
February 11th, 2006 at 1:25 pmwelcome aboard banana…i like your style…keep it up!
February 11th, 2006 at 1:26 pmand welcome back ryan – tho i have a feeling you’ve not been to far away all this time…just a hunch…good to have you back for real!
February 11th, 2006 at 1:27 pmCould you please provide a linnk to that War Declaration Gary. I have a copy of the Autherization to Use Military Force (AUMF), which speaks a lot about “force”. But, doesn’t say anything about wiretapping.
Maybe the War Declaration you speak of does cover wiretapping. Oh wait, CONGRESS didn’t declare war. Moron.
February 11th, 2006 at 1:33 pmthanks katy!! ;-)
February 11th, 2006 at 1:35 pmI am glad to see you back Ryan. You always have good information to share.
I saw you mention that I-RIGHT-I was banned inthe other thread. Where did you hear that?
February 11th, 2006 at 1:41 pmHere is a beauty from Juan Cole from Feb. 10 a real keeper. http://juancole.com/
February 11th, 2006 at 1:46 pmscroll down just a smidge. Enjoy
I dunno why folks are so happy to see Republicans “speak out” about the program. Their comments seem to me to indicate they’re just going to change FISA to allow warrantless domestic wiretaps by the president, couched in language about “terrorism” and sold to America once again on the prospect of another 9/11. What, you think Republicans were actually starting to care about freedom? Ha!
February 11th, 2006 at 1:47 pmMonitorng for terrorists is the right thing to do, and tehre are laws in place to allow it without resorting to illegal tactics. This isn’t about terrorist monitoring, the Bushistas are fishing for politcal enemies, just like Nixon. Many of the same criminals are back in place as in the Nixon years and they are up to the same tricks.
Congress has a clear response to this, and that is impeachment hearings now!
February 11th, 2006 at 1:56 pmi just found this quote (via atrios & americablog)…so typical…
“Do Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean really think that when NSA is listening in on terrorists planning attacks on America, they should hang up when those terrorists call their sleeper cells in the United States?” -ken mehlman
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/politics/13843940.htm
“HANG UP’??? do these people, ruppert et al included, think citizens are that stupid to fall for such a line? well…yea…the group mehlman was speaking to, ruppert et al included, probably do…sheeple, i mean…
February 11th, 2006 at 1:57 pmRYAN!!!!
February 11th, 2006 at 2:10 pmYAY! Welcome back.
The fact is that the War Declaration gave Bush the power to order spying on terrorists. — Comment by Gary Ruppert
**********************
So how do you explain the facts detailed in the Washington Post article I cited in one of my above posts? The facts that out of thousands of citizens and residents who are estimated to have come under surveillance, the intelligence officers in charge of the investigation have so far found less than fifty people in all whose calls show any sign whatsoever as containing potential references to terrorism — even if there is no truth to the rumors suggesting that this surveillance actually began shortly after Bush took office and was well under way prior to September 11? Your simplistic argument that the government is justified in spying on terrorist doesn’t address the fact that the vast majority of people who have so far come under surveillance are not terrorists and have no apparent ties to terrorism! You tell me, Gary…does the government have the effective right to consider citizens guilty before proven innocent and spy on them without first being required to provide information demonstrating the reason for suspecting them?
Here’s the link again:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2006/ 02/ 04/ AR2006020401373.html
If I may tender a little advice, Gary, I’d suggest that you buy a copy of Orwell’s “Animal Farm” and read it because the Bush administration appears to be doing much the same thing that the character of Napoleon the Pig is depicted as doing — using war and terrorism as a smokescreen while he circumvents and corrupts the law in pursuit of his own agenda at the expense of those who have placed their trust in him.
February 11th, 2006 at 2:26 pmDo any of you feel that Bush and Cheney have been watching the TV show ‘24′ a little too much? That one day Bush is just going to say, “Hell yes, I tortured them. I got the information from your grandmother and then I shot her. Jack Bauer would do it, and as President I have the right to do it too… You just cannot handle the truth!”
February 11th, 2006 at 2:26 pmGary there has been no declaration of War…sorry you guy just wish it happened but congress didnt give bush that power.
Saudi Cleric Demands Trial Over Drawingshttp://www.forbes.com/technology/ebusiness/feeds/ap/2006/02/11/ap2518421.html
Here is how serious the neocons are about their loyalties to America…
February 11th, 2006 at 2:28 pmI dunno why folks are so happy to see Republicans “speak out†about the program. Their comments seem to me to indicate they’re just going to change FISA to allow warrantless domestic wiretaps by the president, couched in language about “terrorismâ€
*********************************
that’s true, but at least there will be accountability.
it’s true that the FISA court generally grants their requests for warrants, but FISA records come public after a while…..NSA records don’t.
so there is ACCOUNTABILITY under FISA warrant requests by Bush, but not under warrantless searches through the NSA.
Furthermore, I’m sure that the Bush Administration won’t request warrants to spy on leading Democratic politicians and journalists, like they are warrantlessly and surreptitiously doing vis a vis the NSA.
February 11th, 2006 at 2:29 pm#50 – My fear is that the end result of the uproar will be to change FISA in such a way that warrants can be bypassed if the POTUS decides it’s vital to “national security” to do so. In that case, FISC wouldn’t get involved at all. The NSA would continue on as it has been, accountability and oversight will still be absent, but Bush will no longer be breaking the law and no one (in the general public, I mean) will care until widespread abuses are brought to light.
February 11th, 2006 at 2:40 pm#8 – ask your friends how they know that it’s only been spying on “terrorists.” “Because Bush says so” is not a valid argument.
February 11th, 2006 at 2:51 pm#51 – I’m not sure that FISA could be changed in that way and remain constitutional. FISA as it currently exists is written to guarantee fourth amendment rights to “US persons”. Removing the requirement for warrants would doubtless come into conflict the constitution. It is possible that FISA could be rewritten to permit more liberal electro-mechanical filtering of communications
February 11th, 2006 at 2:59 pm(i.e., searches for keywords or abnormal patterns of usage) before a warrant is required, but as I understand the statute the minimalization requirements already address this.
#8
Here’s a good one for your friends. Ask them since they apparently trust complete strangers (our government) when they tell the public that no innocent Americans are being targeted, then would they have a problem giving you their e-mail address logon information for, say, a few days, and let you read their e-mail messages. Tell them that if they value your friendship and they trust you, that they have nothing to worry about. Tell them if the aren’t communicating anything that would be in violation of the law, they have nothing to worry about. Tell them you promise you will not divulge anything you learn from their e-mail correspondence, and that you will not hold anything you read against them.
If they refuse, then ask why, and see where the conversation goes.
February 11th, 2006 at 3:11 pmsome guy and Frankly, my dear – Your focus is backwards. The thugs have designed a system that doesn’t need FISA, Congress or the Constitution. They have no intention of following our silly laws. We are in big trouble my friends.
February 11th, 2006 at 4:30 pmThis warrantless search program conducted by the NSA is nothing more than a method to stockpile information on republican opponents and enemies.
Think Nixon was bad?. Bush is worse. You see the only reason he came out and admitted the program was because, for cover, he has the war on terror.
The RNC is tapping every deomocratic senator, congressman and possible candidate. It is gathering information to use in political battles. They will not, and cannot be stopped short of armed intervention.
Appeals to the senate and house wont stop it. Lawsuits wont stop it, too many rightwing judges, the lawsuits will be tghrown out before page 1 is read.
This is not all the Shrubs doing, he is not that smart. Look to Karl Rove and you will find the pig that is trying to line his pigpen with silver and gold.
If there is any move to stop Bushlandia, Rove will talk him into declaring Martial Law. The pukes will win all of the up-coming elections by a 51-49 margin. If, by any slim chance, it appears that the pukes are not going to keep control of the house or the senate, believe me, there will be martial law.
February 11th, 2006 at 4:40 pmUk has 151 MPs signatures to impeach Blair. we need 200 since january weve had another 42 MP signatures ….MP’s will suddenly jump , as MPs will do this to get him nailed at the post http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=29437&SESSION=875
http://www.impeachblair.org/ and click Early Day Motions
we will have this in the BAG by the time bush starts war By March Blair is the loose link in the chain
February 11th, 2006 at 4:43 pm55 – Agreed. With the Supreme Court the ultimate arbiter of constitutionality, the likelihood of the present court ruling against the executive branch on a constitutional question seems slim. And even if they did, they have no way to compel compliance from the executive. 2006 has to be a single issue campaign: Impeachment.
February 11th, 2006 at 4:49 pmyou know, I was reading the blog of an American solider in Iraq, and he referred to the Bush Regime as the Redcoats.
It’s interesting how many soldiers go to Iraq Republicans but then come back Democrats.
that says it all right there.
#54 I like your hypothetical. I have some questions for people who support invading the privacy of innocent Americans by spying on them in their homes.
(a) when you were raised to believe that AMerica was better than Russia, why?
(b) when you condemn Fidel Castro, why?
(c) when you were taught in school about Hitler’s SS, whose side did you take?
nuff said
February 11th, 2006 at 5:24 pmTHanks for all the help folks – much appreciated!
February 11th, 2006 at 5:39 pmRyan,
Haven’t read all the posts in this thread yet, but saw your name and wanted to also say…
Welcome Back!
February 11th, 2006 at 9:35 pmWC,
Thanks for the kind words. I have to say I’m thrilled to see the political support for this latest crime crumbling. Only the reichwing fools still support these morons.
February 11th, 2006 at 9:54 pmDusty….first of all….quoting the New York Times, one of the leading leftist rags in the nation (Paper of Record my Ass), doesn’t really buy you any traction. The NYT doesn’t realize that, if they win and the US fails in this world, then they loose. Enough of that though. Second of all…you picked one, admittedly lighting rod issue, in an election cycle, when politicians would sell their own children. I never, ever said that Republicans were always right, just that you appear to be always wrong. You see, unlike the senate and the House, GWB is not a politician….he is a statesman, and the ‘republicans’ don’t see that because they don’t know what that is…and apparently niether do you.
February 12th, 2006 at 5:19 amLee…Whatever…The facts remain the same…He is a crook complcit in all these crimes against America…He has to go…Where is your proof? You can can all that crap about a “Liberal Media”…The facts still remain! See ya at the polls!
February 12th, 2006 at 7:47 amGWB is not a politician….he is a statesman
Sure he is — by definition:
But if you think he is a “statesman” by definition 2:
then that is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. In fact, in this case I would go so far as to say that you are welcome to it.
The trouble is that there have been a lot of men who have been labelled “statesmen” who, in the long run, haven’t done much good for their country or the world:
History will judge where GWB goes in the lineup. As Maxwell Smart would have said: “If only his intelligence could be used for good instead of evil,” but that would only raise the question of “what intelligence?”
February 12th, 2006 at 8:51 amOh my gosh!
Did I NOT just see on “This Week†with Stephanopolous a clip from The Colbert Show in which Colbert lambasts Alberto Gonzales’ “testimonyâ€â€¦
Colbert Show a clip of Gonzo saying (in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee)…
GET THIS:
“I have stated previously that Presidents Washington, Lincoln,….(and two others whose names I missed)…
…authorized ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE…â€
I did NOT just see that!
George Washington and Abraham Lincoln authorized “electronic surveillance�
…and the MSM as a whole ignored this statement?
We Americans are in deep sh*t!
The media, and the right wing Bushite inbreds are freakin’ WHACK!
February 12th, 2006 at 11:48 amRemember, the rightwingers were ready to blow up federal buildings in the 90’s because the federal government was becoming too intrusive and aloof?
Comment by Granite State Destroyer #7
GSD,
And now they’re burning down churces…
…and L’il Dick says, “it’s no dumb luck that we haven’t been hit again…”?
February 12th, 2006 at 11:51 amMy friends keep going back to the “only foreign and only terrorists calling in or out of the US†and I know I heard otherwise somewhere. Can anybody back this up?
Comment by Eural #8
Eural,
Tell your inbred friends that the very fact that Bushiva attempted to keep this secret from the “judiciary” is a telling development…
Ask them WHY with the ability to wiretap w/o a warrant for up to seventy two hours (fifteen days during war time) did the Bushites choose NOT to follow the law?
They’ve got sh*t to hide that’s why…
Ask them, given all the incompetence, the lies, and the profiteering :
9/11
Katrina
Iraq
Plamegate
Medicare costs
Abramoff
Halliburton
and on and on…
Is “trust us” coming from this criminal cabal a wise thing to do?
Ask them to provide PROOF other than Gonzo,Bushiva, or L’il Dick’s worthless “word(s)” that they AREN”T eavesdropping on Americans…
Last but not least ask them why- according to NSA officials-”thousands” of communications have been intercepted with ZERO terrorists captured or prosecuted as a result thereof, and most importantly why the “leaks” keep coming (from career patriotic American civil servants)if this program is SO vital to nat’l security?
February 12th, 2006 at 12:54 pm