UPDATE: Total Information Awareness Lives
UPDATE: Total Information Awareness Lives
Congress voted to shut down the Pentagon’s controversial Total Information Awareness program in 2003 (though not before it was renamed “Terrorism Information Awareness” — sound familiar?).
During a Senate hearing last week, General Michael Hayden was asked whether TIA had simply been “moved to various intelligence agencies” after Congress tried to terminate it. As ThinkProgress noted, Hayden stonewalled:
SEN. RON WYDEN (D-OR): I and others on this panel led the effort to close it [Total Information Awareness]. We want to know if Mr. [John] Poindexter’s programs are going on somewhere else. Can anyone answer that? …
HAYDEN: Senator, I’d like to answer in closed session.
In fact, the answer is yes.
[T]oday, very quietly, the core of TIA survives with a new codename of Topsail (minus the futures market), two officials privy to the intelligence tell NEWSWEEK. … “It is truly Poindexter’s brainchild. Of all the people in the intelligence business, he has the keenest appreciation of using advanced information technology for intelligence gathering,” [says John Arquilla, an intelligence expert at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, Calif.]. Poindexter, who lives just outside Washington in Rockville, Md., could not be reached for comment on whether he is still involved with Topsail.
The will of Congress thwarted again. Why do they even bother?
The newest plank on Rove’s 06 platform.
February 11th, 2006 at 3:03 pmThe Republican rubber stamp has landed right on us all. Everything you learned in civics class isn’t just wrong — it’s a misleading fairy tale that pushes you dangerously far away from the truth. Congressional approval for anything is optional in America today.
February 11th, 2006 at 3:06 pmWhat Congress? What Senate? What Supreme Court?
Looks Orwellian on this side of the fence!
February 11th, 2006 at 3:07 pmwhen we have an intelligent, articulate, conservative economist with solid republican bona fides start saying things like this, we had goddam well better pay attention…
we have experienced a coup in this country and all the soulful posts we write about the inefficacy of congress, the impotency of the democrats and the outrages of bushco aren’t going to accomplish a goddam thing… what is…? i’ll be damned if i know but i do know this… we have to figure out a way to get those bastards out of there - FAST…! scheming and plotting for this year’s elections and 2008 are tantamount to rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic… we all better get off our asses NOW… all it will take, god forbid, is another serious terrorist attack on the u.s. - something that is no doubt already in the works - for the constitution to be suspended and martial law declared… all of this will happen, of course, while we’re out shopping at walmart…
Visit my blog: And, yes, I DO take it personally
February 11th, 2006 at 3:08 pmYou know, for all the props that Feingold gets on civil liberties stuff, Ron Wyden (the senator who asked the question above) is really undercredited. He is a hawk on government intrusion, really good on these issues. He should raise his profile. Anyone know anything about him? Is he old? Not good on TV?
February 11th, 2006 at 3:09 pmSpeaking of which, this is freakin sick:
February 11th, 2006 at 3:12 pmOh, joy…what next? A re-emergence of John Ashcroft’s controversial Operation TIPS project?
I should bite my @#$%^&* tongue…we don’t want to give these folks any more ideas!
February 11th, 2006 at 3:13 pmIf the gop is willing to attempt to tear up the constitution, then doesn’t anyone out there still think that “we shouldn’t stoop to their levels”! Bullshit- it is now or never folks,- we have to get our folks to start pushing back. Hold press conferences every day. Find out where the gopers are holding theirs and show up ready to attempt to force their way in!
February 11th, 2006 at 3:20 pmWe gotta get press any way possible. Every time we get someone on any of the MSM shows, we gotta show up with all the ammo and we should be shooting from the hip. Why not bring out our own little whiteboards and write out our positions.(and stop this crap that we don’t have any)
Less than 10 months folks!- LESS THAN 10 MONTHS!
BILLJPA@AOL.COM
PS- the above suggestions are just some examples. There are tons more.
Just put “Allah Akbar†as you email signature trailer. That should keep the lot of them busy.
February 11th, 2006 at 3:30 pmWhat about the Illuminati? http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/
February 11th, 2006 at 3:31 pmbe afraid, be very afraid
February 11th, 2006 at 3:43 pm#5
Senator Wyden has matured into a real Senator. We lived in Oregon when he was running. As memory serves he lost the first time around to Gordon Smith (I believe the name is correct) Smith was personable, a successful (there was some question about the legitimacy of that success) businessman, a sexy wife of social standing, etc, and had Republican (I think he is on the lists of Jack Aoff and Delay) backing. Senator Wyden was just a wimpy looking country boy running on a Democratic ticket and I don’t even remember if he is married. The second time proved to be different and Senator Wyden has indeed proven himself to be a gentleman and a good Senator. My only complaint is that he has not registered a formal complaint or charges against Roberts for perjury or Contempt of Congress. In answer to Senator Wyden’s question concerning Oregon’s Assisted Suicide law, Roberts assured Senator Wyden that he would not vote to overturn the law. That was the first vote the lying son-of-a bitch cast and in my mind his ass should belong to Senator Wyden. I may have the history all screwed up but it was over ten years ago so both of them have been reelected.
February 11th, 2006 at 3:45 pmI just want to add that all of the stuff that this administration does that looks inept is really part of their plan to make things so bad that we are overwhelmed with trying to point out and fix the problems.
Using a paraphrase of the defenders of the bushies, if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn’t mind an investigation. When the 9/11 investigation was first suggested, the bushies fought very hard against it. They should have been in favor of it if they had nothing to hide.
Such a list could go on for a very long time, but you get the idea. This data mining is simply another instance of doing something that they know is wrong, but if they stonewall for long enough, they’ll get their people in place and get post-hoc legal cover.
February 11th, 2006 at 3:47 pmis this the same poindexter? is it “mr.” or “vice adm.” ?
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/
Navy Vice Adm. John M. Poindexter was appointed as President Reagan’s national security adviser on December 4, 1985, succeeding Robert C. McFarlane, whom Poindexter had served under as deputy for two years. Poindexter’s White House career ended November 25, 1986, when he was forced to resign in the wake of the public disclosure of the Iran/contra diversion.
Poindexter, Lt. Col. Oliver North and McFarlane were the three individuals Attorney General Edwin Meese III identified on November 25, 1986, as knowledgeable of the diversion. Poindexter’s supervision of North and his own participation in the Iran and contra operations were early focuses of Independent Counsel’s investigation.
As in the case against North, criminal evidence against Poindexter had to be gathered quickly before he was compelled to testify on Capitol Hill in the summer of 1987 under a grant of limited immunity. Otherwise, the prosecution of Poindexter was likely to be challenged on the grounds that it was derived from or in some way influenced by his immunized congressional testimony.
On March 16, 1988, Poindexter was indicted on seven felony charges arising from his involvement in the Iran/contra affair, as part of a 23-count multi-defendant indictment. He was named with North, retired Air Force Maj. Gen. Richard V. Secord and Albert Hakim as a member of the conspiracy to defraud the United States Government by effecting the Iran/contra diversion and other acts.
…
February 11th, 2006 at 3:52 pmAddition to #12.
Wyden was first elected to the Senate on January 30, 1996 and is on his third term. Smith was elected in November 1996 and is on his third term. Wyden won the first special election over Smith in January 1996 and Smith won the normal Senate election in November 1996 but not against Wyden. I was just a little off.
February 11th, 2006 at 3:57 pmI still can’t get it right. Smith is on his second term.
February 11th, 2006 at 3:59 pmfly-man - I thought I was out there on the edge of technology. But, hey, not according to the Illuminati. Now, if I could just get my tinfoil hat to stay on straight.
February 11th, 2006 at 3:59 pmCOngress? Are they still coming in to work? I would have to wonder why. I believe the King made them plainly irrelevant, didn’t he? How dare they display such blatant disregard for the authority of the executive and continue to come to work?
February 11th, 2006 at 4:02 pmi was trying to find a means to contact the intelligence people to protest about TIA. while i was doing this the phone rang and a robot voice said “Don’t bother.”
February 11th, 2006 at 4:07 pmLeftists, it appears that you can live happily
Time releases the “First Photo of Bush and Abramoff”
And by “First Photo of Bush and Abramoff” they mean “Abramoff looks like he’s in the picture”
It looks fake to me.
February 11th, 2006 at 4:13 pmwell, duh…supposed to read the link, right?
it IS the same poindexter…
this whole administration is filled with criminals…
February 11th, 2006 at 4:13 pmprofmarcus - You da man.
February 11th, 2006 at 4:19 pmTMAP
Texas Medical Algorithm Project
makes me wonder whats in store.
February 11th, 2006 at 4:24 pmIt looks fake to me.
Comment by Gary Ruppert — February 11, 2006 @ 4:13 pm
Gary YOU probably look Fake to yourself
February 11th, 2006 at 4:24 pmMr. Ruppert, why do you think Time magazine would fake photos of Abramoff and Bush? I can’t hear you..your voice sounds muffled. I see what the problem is. You have to pull your head out of Karl’s ass.
February 11th, 2006 at 4:40 pm“Using a paraphrase of the defenders of the Bushies, if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn’t mind an investigation. When the 9/11 investigation was first suggested, the Bushies fought very hard against it. They should have been in favor of it if they had nothing to hide.” — Bear Country
*******************
Personally, with regard to the whole “nothing to hide” issue, I think Tom Tomorrow has pretty much said it all with his latest “This Modern World” comic. You can find it here:
http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=20323
February 11th, 2006 at 4:40 pmThe will of Congress thwarted again. Why do they even bother?
Cue “Jaws” soundtrack…..Cue the guy who does the voiceovers for all the major studios……Cue the graphic of the pyramid and all seeing eye…”No matter who you are, no matter where you go, what you do, who you see we are there looking up your skirt. We are the Vast and Growing Right Wing Global Conspiracy and our motto is “All your ass are belong to us”.
February 11th, 2006 at 4:44 pmand so what are we going to do about it when they silence all who dare speak the truth? there are no heroes anymore.
we’re scattered in our efforts, divided in our own ways apart from the way they’ve divided us. really. what do we do?
get the word out any and every way that you can. before we nuke iran.
February 11th, 2006 at 4:53 pm“we’re scattered in our efforts, divided in our own ways apart from the way they’ve divided us. really. what do we do?
February 11th, 2006 at 5:16 pmget the word out any and every way that you can. before we nuke iran.”
Comment by Gyps — February 11, 2006 @ 4:53 pm
*****I hear the Syrians and Iranians pay good money for demonstrators at the “cartoon riots” - imagine how much you could make as a human shield in Iran?????
I find myself thinking that the Pentagon is in complete control of politics in the United States. Look at it this way, they prepare for every possible contingency that could effect the “security” of the United States [read: the Pentagon’s funding and programs]
They are the only department in the US government with the scope to monitor everything everybody else does and fund their own contingent responses. The eavesdropping has been going on since before 911, it’s just getting leaked now because the political applications are too abusive to tolerate.
There won’t be any way for the citizens to take the country back from the War department without the War department’s approval and cooperation. That’s the situation we’re in. The US military is preeminent in the whole world–that means here, especially.
The reason nobody talks about it is the media and the US government are totally under Pentagon control.
How do you think that dick, Bush, was able to get “elected” and then “reelected?”
Why do you think congress keeps voting more and more funding for the Pentagon when our problems could be so much more effectively solved by addressing them more progressively, such as with diplomacy, education, health care and sustainable energy and agriculture.
The Pentagon has become like “Skynet” in the movie Terminator III
February 11th, 2006 at 5:16 pmjust a heads up - you should hear if from a friendly first…the freepers are throwing this one out there:
February 11th, 2006 at 5:21 pmCarter allowed surveillance in 1977
http://www.washtimes.com/ national/ 20060210-110722-2189r.htm
gore vidal coming up soon on ring of fire - one of the best shows on air america radio
February 11th, 2006 at 5:24 pmFinally…let’s put political philosophy aside - for just a moment - I KNOW why I would rather be conservative than a prog. It’s more fun, more optimistic. Progs are soooo dreary and loaded with doom and gloom.
February 11th, 2006 at 5:28 pmRe the comment “You know, for all the props that Feingold gets on civil liberties stuff, Ron Wyden (the senator who asked the question above) is really undercredited. He is a hawk on government intrusion, really good on these issues. He should raise his profile. Anyone know anything about him? Is he old? Not good on TV?”:
I’ve been to each “town hall meeting” Wyden holds annually in each county in Oregon (I live in Josephine County)
Ron’s not old, maybe fifty, max. He’s probably quite fine on TV, though I haven’t owned a tv in 33 years. He’s very smooth, very bright, before live audiences.
|
This last meeting, about a month ago, was a bit disheartening, insofar as Wyden said there is more or less nothing he or other Fed govt types can do to clean up our broken election process, as the “Constitution is very clear that this is a State issue, not to be interfered with by the Fed Govt.”
I suspect most of you can figure out that this is pretty unusual talk, since the Feds have repeatedly interfered in this process many, many times in the past.
I’m still awaiting an explanation from Wyden on this, since he would not allow my follow up questions on the topic.
February 11th, 2006 at 5:28 pm#31 - How do you think that dick, Bush, was able to get “elected†and then “reelected?— - liberal elitist
******Dear Elitist - Please answer a simple question.
Which is it: Bush is an incompetent, bumbling, ignorant illiterate…….Period.
-OR-
Bush is a cunning, ingenious and evil mastermind of a terrifying reichwing plot….Hmmmmm.
-OR-
Dick Cheney is the evil mastermind pulling the strings of the bumbling Bush….a probable Prog perspective…..
February 11th, 2006 at 5:35 pmThanks Katy for the link.
“But in 1977, Mr. Carter and his attorney general, Griffin B. Bell, authorized warrantless electronic surveillance used in the conviction of two men for spying on behalf of Vietnam”.
No Democrat that I know is against spying on the enemy, which Carter did. Spying on Americans illegally is the problem. No checks and balances is the problem. The President being above the law is the problem.
The people on the right, who say Democrats are against spying on the enemy, are knowingly lying when they say that. They are just trying to play politics with an issue that should be bi-partisan.
February 11th, 2006 at 5:36 pmmalcolm - bobby kennedy jr. and david bender just had a brief conversation about the diebold matter - kennedy asked if the DNC is on to that and bender answered yes, but that it was definitely a local/state matter…
gore vidal up soon… on ring of fire on AirAmericaRadio
February 11th, 2006 at 5:43 pmFebruary 11th, 2006 at 5:52 pm
profmarcus america no longer has ears to hear and eyes to see. America died in 2000 . another terriost attack yes bushco is well into planning another attack and yes it will totaly dismantle the Consitution ,Bill of Rights,Civil Rights and Martial Law will be the order of the day and night.
Only then it will be too late to stop this train that has shocked and awed with a terrible venegance against the people’s of The America’s . bushco knew what they were doing when the Supreme Court became their partner in 2000.
Right Now if More Real Republicans would stand up for America and declare that this man is to be impeached then crimnal charges brought against him then and only then America may be saved but I don’t believe it will happen.
February 11th, 2006 at 5:54 pmm.a.
does not matter which, the result is the same
the u.s.a. is now a dangerous fascist nation controlled
by the most evil and greediest one percenters.
I only wish this was extreme hyperpolie.
February 11th, 2006 at 6:06 pmWith congress becoming a rubber stamp, the only undiluted leverage we have is our spending. Let’s bvoycott the companies that subsidized this. Home Depot, General Mills,
February 11th, 2006 at 6:17 pmCircuit City… Buy Blue.org
Bush wants to spy on everybody > for some reason he wants to become our “Big Brother” on prozac!
It is Bush himself who is afraid of everybody in America, so he has to have us all wiretapped and snooped upon now!
Terrorists to him are anybody who is against him!
February 11th, 2006 at 6:20 pmmighty aphrodite
I pick #3 for sure… The exNixonians used Bush as a famous face to get them into office rather than normal nonNeoCon republicans.
February 11th, 2006 at 6:28 pm#43 - “It is Bush himself who is afraid of everybody in America, so he has to have us all wiretapped and snooped upon now!” - Jay Randal
February 11th, 2006 at 6:36 pm*******Dear Jay, Read your sentence again and let me know - whose afraid of who???? Got news for you - he told me you weren’t that interesting……
The NSA issue needs to be looked at in broad terms: A failure of checks and balances. This link [ http://tinyurl.com/car6w , the one under my name ] discusses a process called “Recalibration.” This is a made-up term to describe a State-level effort to force the Congress and Executive to do their jobs: Comply with the Constitution, and assent to the rule of law.
The process is simple. The states need to take up this issue, and debate: What is to be done when the Congress assents to lawlessness and refuses to take action to subdue an Executive. We discuss the lawful options and hope you enjoy the adventure. Thank you for considering these views in an effort to provide a solution
Best wishes,
- Constant -
February 11th, 2006 at 6:39 pmWell Mighy what can you do to get us out of the doom and gloom besides put us down?
February 11th, 2006 at 6:56 pmI’ve questioned Ron Wyden…but, then all Democrats, as well as Republicans just can’t pass the smell test anymore. Two months ago Wyden, along with 4 other D.’s voted to set aside the Ruke of Habeous Corpus, just like the REpug’s wanted it. UnPhuggin’ Believeable!
February 11th, 2006 at 6:59 pmI KNOW why I would rather be conservative than a prog. It’s more fun, more optimistic. Progs are soooo dreary and loaded with doom and gloom.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — February 11, 2006
And conservatives are urine-stained cultists who wish nothing so much as a return to sovereign rule. Why don’t you move to a country that embraces god-ordained rulers? You’d be more comfortable. Royalist.
February 11th, 2006 at 7:08 pmPost 45 aphro lol so you admit Bush talks to you huh?
My sentence infers the truth that it’s Bush himself who is afraid of terrorism, and NOT average Americans!
Bush himself is afraid of his own shadow, and sees terrorists lurking everywhere, so he is a true coward!
February 11th, 2006 at 7:13 pmOh, this is a good one:
And this from here leader on Friday:
CNN
February 10, 2006
Bush defends surveillance program to fellow Republicans
Not to mention that this completely destroys the old “All the republicans are for the NSA program. If they were, Bush wouldn’t be defending it to them.
February 11th, 2006 at 7:14 pmWell Mighy what can you do to get us out of the doom and gloom besides put us down??
February 11th, 2006 at 7:15 pmFinally…let’s put political philosophy aside - for just a moment - I KNOW why I would rather be conservative than a prog. It’s more fun, more optimistic. Progs are soooo dreary and loaded with doom and gloom.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — February 11, 2006 @ 5:28 pm
Sorry, MA, but that’s already been said:
So it’s a good philosophy, MA: The less you know about what’s going on the happier you’ll be. Until, of course, it’s too late.
February 11th, 2006 at 7:29 pmTIA lives?
Why oh why am I so not surprised?
February 11th, 2006 at 7:34 pmThe NSA spying program is a joint effort of the four major English speaking nations, the US, Canada, Britain and New Zealand.
It was set up years ago and its principal place of business is in England, just a short ways from London. I forgot the name of the town. Its is there for all to see, they are proud of their capabilities.
Please recall that NSA admitted spying on Princess Diane and it was from that spying and recording of ALL of her telephone conversations that the pulp magazines got hold of her talking to her lover. Funny thing tho, NSA denies those several conversation. Believe them? I dont.
The NSA records every fax, every e-mail, every telephone conversation no matter where it is. The statements they make that they are only interested in conversations between Al Qaeda and american citizens is nothing but bunk.
I have a friend who is in NSA now. He wont talk about work. I have a friend who used to be in NSA and privately he will tell you stories that will curl your hair.
We know the preznit lies, and he is lying about this program which is nothing more than a cover for his domestic spying on all democratic politicians in both houses of congress, and any potentials that may run for office. Karl Rove maintains the list of who to record and who to gather information on.
Our brave and honorable presznit admitted this program because he knows that he has the cover of the Iraq war to back him up and if you are against the progam, you are a traitor to your country and sympathetic to Al Qaeda. Thaats the way it is now, and that is the way it will be during election time.
The politics of fear. Folks, you need to fear your preznit and voernment just a little bit more.
February 11th, 2006 at 7:37 pmPaul in Mexico - They can’t possibly record everything. Calm down. They are doing some bad shit. Yes. And they are doing a lot more that the public can grasp. Now, what has to happen is we need to remove the high school kids from the WH.
February 11th, 2006 at 7:51 pm#47 - “Well Mighy what can you do to get us out of the doom and gloom besides put us down?”
Comment by For Truth — February 11, 2006 @ 6:56 pm
*****I love your tongue-in-cheek question - so quaint!! In my formerly “enlightened” progressive days, I was struck by the drama and despair all too often exhibited by well-meaning friends. They couldn’t enjoy a veggieburger without feeling anxiety for the plight of the starving. A sunny day was reason to feel badly for the flooded. A generous charitable donation was NEVER enough for my benevolent friends. Wealth was something NEVER earned - it was ALWAYS the result of ill-gotten gains. Money was to be castigated - except when mom and dad were conveniently tapped for bail money. And at the root of all of this was never a belief in the essential goodness of people but a sadly envious note.
I hate personal attacks - I have no problem criticizing or making fun of an idea. But this site has been a great place for me to watch how a person with no argument “argues”. Ad hominem???
February 11th, 2006 at 8:00 pmCome on mighty aphrodite, what do you think of George W Bush’s doom and gloom attitude?
He probably needs to cheer up and stop being so scared of the boogie man.
February 11th, 2006 at 8:02 pm“I hate personal attacks - I have no problem criticizing or making fun of an idea. But this site has been a great place for me to watch how a person with no argument “arguesâ€. Ad hominem???
Comment by mighty aphrodite AKA Jeffrey Shawn AKA RiteWinger”
Sweetie, you could have just sent emails to yourself, or gone to the conservative underground where you’re a blogmaster if you wanted those experiences. It’s OK pumpkin, I forgive you. The partisan brain makes people do and say all sorts of things that really reflect their own personal weaknesses as opposed to reality. I’m sure your ‘ad hominem’ attack on progressives seemed legitimate in your partisan brain - but to a conscientious and aware person you just look silly pumpkin.
February 11th, 2006 at 8:12 pmPersonally, I’m glad someone is watching and listening to the traffic out there. The only way to stay ahead of the bad guys is to find out their plans in advance!
February 11th, 2006 at 8:17 pm“And at the root of all of this was never a belief in the essential goodness of people but a sadly envious note. by mighty aphrodite AKA Jeffrey Shawn AKA RiteWinger”
Sweetie, I believe this, but based on your previous postings you’ve never shown any belief in the goodness of those not of your partisan persuasion? Have you changed your mind in your old age, or was this a slip of the tongue pumpkin? Do you believe progressives and liberals are all essentially good? Because your attacks on anyone that disagrees with you seem more ‘envious’ of their disent than it does an acknowledgement of their good intentions. Perhaps your partisan brain prevents you from seeing the contradiction in what you say you stand for, and your actions. But I forgive you and your contradictions sweetie. I’m sure you mean well, maybe the Arizona sun is just too hot for you to think clearly? Whatever the case pumpkin, maybe instead of trying to treat progressives as a lab rat - which is what your message implied you do - you should treat them as people who simply understand the world differently than you. That would be the mature non-judgemental thing to do, but somehow I imagine it’s beyond your ability to do so today. Perhaps someday maturity will set in, but if it hasn’t by your age perhaps that’s a false hope pumpkin.
February 11th, 2006 at 8:17 pm“Personally, I’m glad someone is watching and listening to the traffic out there. The only way to stay ahead of the bad guys is to find out their plans in advance!
Comment by Blue State Red — February 11, 2006 @ 8:17 pm”
I’m sure there are many people that feel the same way, too bad they’re listening to americans who apparently aren’t involved - instead of actually going after Osama. Oh well, priorities of partisans is always to pull a Nixon. I forgive you pumpkin.
February 11th, 2006 at 8:18 pmYet, ah! why should they know their fate,
Since sorrow never comes too late,
And happiness too swiftly flies?
Thought would destroy their Paradise.
No more;—where ignorance is bliss,
’Tis folly to be wise.
Thomas Gray
Ode on a Distant Prospect of Eton College
So it’s a good philosophy, MA: The less you know about what’s going on the happier you’ll be. Until, of course, it’s too late. — Frankly, My Dear
***********
Dear FMD –
I have something which seems to make a good addendum to your response and which I think you might appreciate. It’s an old Hungarian proverb which states, “the believer is happy — the doubter is wise.”
February 11th, 2006 at 8:18 pmBluestocking,
There’s another one. With great wisdom and knowledge comes great sorrow. That’s a ‘christian’ one, how funny that those who CLAIM to be christians seem to know so little of their own religion.
February 11th, 2006 at 8:25 pm57,
You still didnt answer the question.
February 11th, 2006 at 8:25 pmmightyHermaphrodite, for someone who claims to not like personal attacks, your frequency and consistency of them against me when I correct your numerously false and retarded comments just keep coming. You’re such a hypocrite.
February 11th, 2006 at 8:27 pmAbsolutely, the NSA should wiretap anybody and everybody it suspects of being a terrorist and they should do so for three days if they need beofre filing for a warrant. If they don’t have the evidence to obtain a warrant, then they need to stop imediately.
February 11th, 2006 at 8:37 pm“The only way to stay ahead of the bad guys is to find out their plans in advance!” — Blue State Red
***********
There’s some wisdom in that statement, no question — depending to some extent, that is, on precisely how the government chooses to define the phrase “bad guy”. At least for the time being, the definition is “terrorist” — but there’s always the possibility that the day may come when that definition may change or even expand considerably. Let me ask you a question, BSR — if there should ever happen to come a day when the government should decide for some reason or other than you or one of your loved ones qualifies as “the enemy” today, would you submit without protest — or would you kick up a fuss? You may feel confident that there’s no possibility of this actually happening — but let’s face it, you don’t know this with 100% certainty.
If I may refer you to a famous quote by Martin Niemoller, a minister who was imprisoned by the Nazis during WWII…
“When Hitler attacked the Jews, I was not a Jew — therefore I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic — and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions — and I was not concerned. Then Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church — and there was nobody left to be concerned.”
February 11th, 2006 at 8:47 pmRobert Frost (no conservative, he) once said of liberals that they are incapable of taking their own side in a fight. That appears to be the case today in the war on terror. Liberals are criticizing the President for protecting them by doing the very same things - using technology to learn the enemy’s plans, and then defeat them - that other presidents have done.
Liberals cannot cite one single example of harm inflicted on any innocent American by the NSA program, yet they insist that the President forego the use of all that intelligence technology; or, worse, they demand that the tactical use of this technology be endlessly discussed and examined in public, until our enemies know our tactics and our technology so well that both are useless. It is a sad and ominous political spectacle, one that is dangerous in wartime..
Liberals never give the President any credit for his successes in this war. They only see the negative, only complain about the negative, only blame Bush for the negative - as if our enemies had nothing to do with the current state of things. Meanwhile, the enemy plots and plans how it might attack us again, here at home, to kill as many innocent Americans as possible.
The irony is that, should there be another attack on U.S. soil during Bush’s presidency, the liberals would be the first ones to step before the cameras and microphones to denounce him as incompetent, and to blame him for the renewed death and destruction.
The American people know this. That is why liberals continue to lose elections, while America continues to win the war on terrorism. The American people know that, however much we may respect our liberal friends, we can never let them anywhere near the levers of power. They would get us all killed.
“I would rather win the war and lose the election than vice-versa.” Gov. Thomas Dewey (R-NY), said that, circa 1944, referring to the presidential contest of that year. Joe Lieberman is a Dewey liberal. It is high time we had a few more like him, and a few less of the kind who are incapable of taking their own side in this fight.
February 11th, 2006 at 9:01 pmLet me ask you a question, BSR — if there should ever happen to come a day when the government should decide for some reason or other than you or one of your loved ones qualifies as “the enemy†today, would you submit without protest — or would you kick up a fuss? You may feel confident that there’s no possibility of this actually happening — but let’s face it, you don’t know this with 100% certainty.
Yes, I do. There is absolutely no possibility of this actually happening. Perhaps that’s the difference between conservatives and liberals: conservatives fight the enemy in front of them, while liberals distract themselves with hobgoblins who never come.
February 11th, 2006 at 9:05 pm“conservatives fight the enemy in front of them, while liberals distract themselves with hobgoblins who never come.
Comment by Blue State Red — February 11, 2006 @ 9:05 pm
Sweetie, that’s the strategy Bush used to ignore Osama and focus on the drug war. Seems like partisan brain really is dead weight. Poor pumpkin, so much passion, and so little reason to back it up.
February 11th, 2006 at 9:12 pmBSR,
February 11th, 2006 at 9:12 pmAre you sure that you are from a Blue State? You are whistling ‘Dixie’ all of the time.
Blue State Red this can happen and what would you do if bush did close down the 2008 election…
President Bush Forever!:
Does President Bush plan to use his Executive authority under his wartime powers to cancel the 2008 election because a change in leadership here might embolden the terrorists? The statue says ‘yes.’
February 11th, 2006 at 9:12 pmhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/ bob-cesca/ president-bush-forever_b_15375.html
The American people know this. Blue State Red
Sweetie, the american people consistently poll against you and your values. It’s OK pumpkin, partisan brain can’t process reason for reality - I forgive you for believing fantasies. After all, you were taught that donkeys can talk as a child - what possible chance do you have at possessing the necessary skills to live in the real world. Poor pumpkin, you have my pity.
February 11th, 2006 at 9:14 pm#67 - spudge, this really assumes that the NSA are the good guys. i don’t think that there are any good guys to root for, there are only different teams.
the best you can hope for is that americans are a little safer because those inside the Pentagon who make the decisions feel a shred of sympathy for us (and they are well-resourced), although considering treatment of US military personnel, even that seems hopelessly optimistic.
commentary on rumsfeld’s activities in 2002:
“The officials say it is part of a grander plan in play - to relieve the Pentagon, and other executive branch agencies, of congressional supervision, which Mr Rumsfeld calls burdensome and inefficient, but which critics say is a necessary inconvenience of democracy.” (from esther schrader story, widely syndicated)
http://www.dailykos.com/tag/Daniel%20Ellsberg
if people haven’t read them yet, the Daniel Ellsberg interviews on Kos lay it all out:
“The joint chiefs had been pressing for that since 1961 and every year. But in 1964 it was understood in the Pentagon, which I entered in mid-1964, that they were going to get their way soon after the election. And it was not to be revealed before the election that the Goldwater open campaigning program of enlarged war in Vietnam was basically under planning and underway inside the Pentagon and that whoever the voters actually voted for, they were going to get an enlarged war.”
this is why i have no grand hopes for the 2006 elections. no-one gets to vote on who staffs the Pentagon and they were just awarded another huge budget increase. in some respects, i go along with mighty aphrodite, much as they disgust me. they will get to laugh at liberals, progressives, etc, if we all get rounded up or stuck on no-fly lists. hopefully MA will spout the Communist manifesto in his sleep and be turned in by his best friend/spouse.
February 11th, 2006 at 9:16 pmthe correct quote is: “A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel.” -Robert Frost
February 11th, 2006 at 9:18 pmquite different than “incapable of taking their own side in a fight”…
think about it…though i realize you may be incapable of that…
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=broadminded
broadminded - broad-mind·ed (brôdmndd) adj.
Having or characterized by tolerant or liberal views.
Synonyms: broad-minded, broad, liberal, open-minded, tolerant
These adjectives mean having or showing an inclination to respect views and beliefs that differ from one’s own: a broad-minded judge; showed broad sympathies; a liberal cleric; open-minded impartiality; a tolerant attitude.
Antonyms: narrow-minded (bsr,ruppert,et al)
: inclined to respect views and beliefs that differ from your own; “a judge who is broad-minded but even-handed”
February 11th, 2006 at 9:23 pmthe american people consistently poll against you and your values.
Not on Election Day.
February 11th, 2006 at 9:31 pmhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/ news/ main.jhtml?xml=/ news/ 2006/ 02/ 12/ wiran12.xml&sSheet=/ news/ 2006/ 02/ 12/ ixnewstop.html
as if my comments in #76 needed anymore validation.
February 11th, 2006 at 9:45 pmThat is right, because Diebold takes care of the rest.
February 11th, 2006 at 9:48 pm“Not on Election Day.
Comment by Blue State Red — February 11, 2006 @ 9:31 pm”
Tell that to the 1/2 million more people who voted for Gore than Bush, or the 10 million who voted for Clinton versus Dole. Sweetie, you’re a partisan - reality isn’t something you’re capable of processing. I forgive you.
February 11th, 2006 at 9:49 pmYou mean like the democrats wanting to go after Osama bin Laden in Pakistan while the republicans want to sit in the middle of a civil war in Iraq?
Riiiiiiiiight.
February 11th, 2006 at 9:52 pmthe correct quote is: “A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel.†- Robert Frost
quite different than “incapable of taking their own side in a fight em>
Not at all. Frost was saying, and I agree, that it is the liberal’s reflexive, uncritical broadmindedness that makes him incapable of defending his own best interests.
This reminds me of the cartoon where Elmer Fudd is out hunting for wabbits, and Daffy and Bugs argue over whether or not it really is duck hunting season, instead of wabbit season. Bugs (the conservative in this case) says it is; Daffy, (the liberal) says it isn’t. The two go back and forth (”Yes it is!” - “No it isn’t!”) while Elmer looks on in confusion. Then Bugs suddenly says, “No it isn’t!” . . . and Daffy cannot help himself. He immediately, reflexively disagrees, “Yes it is!” Whereupon Elmer promptly blows him to smithereens (cartoon version, of course.)
We’ve all seen this cartoon and others like it. And we also see it in the daily political news. Liberals will insist loudly that a given policy is of the utmost importance (win the war, educate the kids, save social security, provide drug benefits for seniors - it doesn’t really matter which policy you choose); but just as soon as President Bush agrees with them, they reflexively oppose him at all costs. This is how liberals have painted themselves into a corner with the American people, who have increasingly responded by electing conservatives.
February 11th, 2006 at 9:58 pmBlue State Red. Next time post your own thoughts instead of somebody elses.
February 11th, 2006 at 10:04 pmAhhhh…#84 the inner workings of the right-wing brain.While you are stuck with your literal minded tunnel- vision view of the world, a Liberal may understand where you are coming from in your little world, be aware of other points of view and of course his/her own pov.
February 11th, 2006 at 10:27 pmfrost was saying exactly what he said - A liberal is a man too broadminded (tolerant, open-minded, respectful of views and beliefs that differ from his own) to take his own side in a quarrel (to be so closed-minded that he cannot hear and/or respect another view or belief).
February 11th, 2006 at 10:39 pmspudge is correct - post your own thoughts…
“…but just as soon as President Bush agrees with them, they reflexively oppose him at all costs...”
you are full of shyte.
“…the American people, who have increasingly responded by electing conservatives.”
more b.s. - they voted “conservative” because they were lied to, they were duped… guns-gays-god booga booga…
February 11th, 2006 at 10:45 pmyes, i’m aware of the irony…let me rephrase that:
it is my opinion that you are full of shyte.
g’nite.
February 11th, 2006 at 10:57 pmkaty,
I mean literally post your own thoughts when I was talking about BSR. That post about Elmer Fudd was already posted here by another troll.
February 11th, 2006 at 11:12 pmok spudge - i didn’t know about the elmer fudd post…i thought he was putting words into frost’s “mouth”, speaking for frost, without specifying “i think frost meant ___”
it’s late…time for SNL
g’nite…
but that line: “as soon as President Bush agrees with them, they reflexively oppose him at all costs” …a bunch of shyte…for sure.
February 11th, 2006 at 11:34 pmDid anyone see a post titled ‘WarDrums’ on another thread?
February 11th, 2006 at 11:54 pmBSR, You believe in fighting real enemies. Who are the real enemies? Of all the thousands of persons killed or incarcerated by the Bush regime, who among them posed a real threat to the nation or its people?
February 12th, 2006 at 12:05 amkaty,
You were right on the Frost stuff. BSR lead with frost and made it the intro to a post that has been posted here before.
SNL, it’s only 9:30
February 12th, 2006 at 12:26 amSenator Wyden, is the rare person that has given his life to the service of the people that he represents. When I was in High School 1980’s in Gresham Oregon he visitied the resteraunt I worked at. He’s humble and personable and I had the impression he really cared. At that time he was working on issues for the elderly.
February 12th, 2006 at 1:05 amI agree this is his time to stand up and represent us. He is deserving of our support.
Bob
AMERICA WAKE UP
The people of America need to find their voice.
Tell ,remind, comment to your Congressional leaders.
That they are not a Parliament, and WE the PEOPLE
Are not a Commonwealth to be protected by our King.
Remind Congress that they are to be our voice.
Their silence WILL not only be our death but
It shall be their’s too.
That if Congress cares about their job and
Attendance in our King’s court, they will
Show deference toward those that which they represent.
But for Congress to even care…
AMERICA WAKE UP
February 12th, 2006 at 2:51 amMax-1 > most of the Senate is in bed with Bush now > about 80 of them to be exact, so kind of a lost cause to contact Senators now! Better to help Democrats to take back the House of Representatives this November, than to waste time and money on Senators who do not give a damn about anything, but themselves!
February 12th, 2006 at 3:04 amshadow government = fascism from democracy.
those who are doomed to repeat history are doomed to repeat history.
February 12th, 2006 at 5:43 amThe power of the current executive in America, the Bush administration, is far greater than that held by King George at the time of the revolution. Your president has in the case of the warranties wiretaps defied the explicit limitations of the fig leaf of constitutional protection of FISA. While FISA was only a fig leaf and in fact had never refused a warrant the fact that the president chose to override it is even more disturbing. The media spin has been that it was necessary to catch people talking to al quaeda plotting to blow up your neighbors but this is clearly not the case. A tap can be applied under FISA instantly and then three days are available to justify the tap before the FISA judge. The only reason an executive can have for more eavesdropping power than that is to do it without leaving any record and so as others have pointed out tap all the republican congressmen and any that might be thinking of voting the wrong way are informed that any embarrassing little secrets they might have will be made public or simply passed on to wives or husbands.
While that is bad enough, the potential misuse of the power itself is NOT the issue. By defying the explicitly expressed limitation on the power of the executive by the legislature the executive has assumed power not held by any monarch since Lois the 16th and not attempted by any monarch in Britain since Charles the first and we had to take rather extreme measures to deal with him! We made very strict rules before accepting William as co monarch to Mary that specifically prevented the sort of usurpation of legislative authority practiced by the current Bush administration and the Hanoverian monarchs were even more restricted and America exists only because you considered even that power too great.
Congress MUST NOT let this stand. History shows that once an executive begins to ignore the legislature only revolution will retrieve it. If the president can ignore the 1st amendment and the body of the primary text of both the constitution and the declaration of independence. Then why not the 4th or the 22nd? With the media spinning like mad in 2008 why not just say that the world is in such turmoil what with the war in Iran that is surely going on by then that like Roosevelt America needs Bush’s firm hand on the tiller for another four years and thanks to Diebold et all whatever way America thinks it voted the vote will count out for another four years of Bush and in 2012 why bother with elections at all?
You may say I exaggerate but the fact is that the line was crossed when the illegal taps were made public and the president simply said “so?” Again when the anti torture bill was signed he added the blatant statement that he might ignore it he chose.
Many years ago there was a crazy wee guy on New York public TV who used to persuade ladies on the street to take their clothes off on camera. The Psychology of his method was to persuade them to do something that seemed fairly innocuous and once that was done persuade them to go a little further. Each step was small and seemingly not so bad especially as they had already gone so far until eventually they were stark naked. The same thing is happening to you all now. Each violation of the rule of law seems bad but not bad enough to make too much of a fuss and each further violation is that much harder to make a fuss about as you have gone so far already.
The line crossed by the wiretap issue is not the beginning of a process it is the end. The legislature has been demonstrated NOT to have the authority to check the executive. Democracy is over It is probably already far too late to fix but with sufficient will even the pathetic excuse for congress you have might still rescue the situation.
February 12th, 2006 at 5:52 am99 - Good post.
Most who support Bush’s claim to his authority to spy on “US persons” simply ignore the fact that he has willfully broken the law. When Nixon and J. Edgar did it, it was called “abuse” because it violated the fourth amendment, but there was no statute that prohibited it and the constitution is not a law, it is the basis for law. But now there is a law (FISA), so it’s no longer “abuse”, it is a felony.
The authority of the president to gather “foreign” intelligence has been upheld, but his lack of authority to conduct warrantless domestic surveillance, even for secutiry purposes, has already been decided by the Supreme Court (407 U.S. 297 [1972]).
To quote from that decision:
It needs to be pointed out that the decision deals exclusively with domestic surveillance where “There is no evidence of any involvement, directly or indirectly, of a foreign power.” But FISA is written to take into account the decision made (that the president does not have the authority to authorize warrantless domestic surveillance) here. Under FISA the president does not have the authority to authorize warrantless surveillance of US persons unless such person has been designated an “agent of a foreign power.”
February 12th, 2006 at 6:46 am#57 In my formerly “enlightened†progressive days, I was struck by the drama and despair all too often exhibited by well-meaning friends. They couldn’t enjoy a veggieburger without feeling anxiety for the plight of the starving. A sunny day was reason to feel badly for the flooded. A generous charitable donation was NEVER enough for my benevolent friends. Wealth was something NEVER earned - it was ALWAYS the result of ill-gotten gains. Money was to be castigated - except when mom and dad were conveniently tapped for bail money. And at the root of all of this was never a belief in the essential goodness of people but a sadly envious note.
Mighty Hypocrite
Your description above doesn’t sound like any of my progressive friends (and I have plenty of them) but just a stereotyped reichwing O’Lielly/Insannity image of liberals. Just when did you give up being a progressive? There are several inconsistencies in your personal history referrances on various threads, so I imagine much of it is fake. And none of your comments on this thread has had anything to do with the topic.
February 12th, 2006 at 8:36 amSince you stopped writing on a previous thread after I offered to return my Fulbright Fellowship money to the US government as long as Halliburton returns all that it has overcharged and mismanaged over the years, I will now lower the stakes for Halliburton. The offer stands as long as it returns half of the money it has overcharged or mismanaged. After all, I am really too nice a person to want to deprive Dickhead Cheney of one of his vacation homes–particularly the $3 million one he was checking out while people in New Orleans were drowning.
I used to wonder why the German people allowed Nazism to build and take over. I now know how it happened. Little by little by little in the name of national security. There is a wonderful quote by William O. Douglas, Supreme Court Justice (1939-1975) from my BLUE state of Minnesota. Justice Douglas said this: “As night fall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains unchanged. And it is in such a twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unworthy victims of the darkness.”
February 12th, 2006 at 9:37 am[…] Think Progress reports that the Total Information Awareness Program is now called Topsail. But Hirsh reports: “After four and a half years, our intelligence and national-security apparatus still hasn’t learned how to track terrorists, and the Bush administration has put forward little more than cosmetic reforms.” […]
February 12th, 2006 at 9:38 amWant to know hwat will work to get these bastards out of office and restore this countries honor? It’s something that has worked before to stop tyranny dead in it’s tracks.
It’s called “peaceful massive civil disobedience”.
Writting rants on blogs won’t work. Writting letters to editors that are part of the problem won’t do it. Neither will writting or calling corrupt politicains. However if the anti-bush sites would organize protests of the likes that we haven’t seen since the 60’s & 70’s in the vain of Ghandi and Martin Luther King, if thousands chained themselves to the White House gates, blocked entrances to government buildings, if we did this continually so that even the corrupt media would have to pay attention, Hell block thye entrances to NBC, ABC and such, then, maybe we’d start to see some change.
Will it be dangerous? You bet. Thousands will get arrested, many physically harmed and some may even die. (Remembering Kent State) But I see no other solution. For thinking that e3nlightenment will magically sweep the government and media without we the people to force them into it is dreaming.
So, to all the MoveOn’s, BluzzFlash’s and all the other anti-bush sights, DO IT! Organize a march on Washington and let’s tell them where the can stuff their “free speech zones”!
February 12th, 2006 at 10:13 amOh my gosh!
Did I NOT just see on “This Week” with Stephanopolous a clip from The Colbert Show in which Colbert lambasts Alberto Gonzales’ “testimony”…
Colbert Show a clip of Gonzo saying (in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee)…
GET THIS:
“I have stated previously that Presidents Washington, Lincoln,….(and two others whose names I missed)…
…authorized ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE…”
I did NOT just see that!
George Washington and Abraham Lincoln authorized “electronic surveillance”?
…and the MSM as a whole ignored this statement?
We Americans are in deep sh*t!
The media, and the right wing Bushite inbreds are freakin’ WHACK!
February 12th, 2006 at 11:47 ambig papa, I saw and heard Gonzales on C-span answer that and wondered why I didn’t know those guys had phones back then, just before I fell out and then wondered WTF are they all thinking. Why didn’t one of them say WTF did you say. Colbert was great also. Saw that to. I see and hear this kind of shit all the time with Representatives and the new’s media and think no wonder our country has gone down the crapper. To bad being stupid isn’t painful, we would be much better off if it were..Blessings
February 12th, 2006 at 12:49 pmIthink the other shoe has aready dropped and we can`t win as still have same voting machines to many Dems . that vote reps. killing their own party . Ijust keep wishing it will change .THE seniors lost already and the poor and the middle class . Where do people call that the christian party When God said do for the least among you.. I think they will all be pardon so why waist the money and time on commmeties?.
February 12th, 2006 at 1:11 pmI would like to apologize to my many 8th grade students for misleading them when I taught them as the truth, the fairy tale of the Constitution of the United States.
February 12th, 2006 at 1:31 pmI would like to apologize to my many 8th grade students for misleading them when I taught them as the truth, the fairy tale of the Constitution of the United States.
Comment by Mme flutterbye
Better if you apologized for not teaching it well.
February 12th, 2006 at 2:36 pmI am really too nice a person to want to deprive Dickhead Cheney of one of his vacation homes–particularly the $3 million one he was checking out while people in New Orleans were drowning.
Comment by Lora aka Liberal Loa
What were you doing when people were drowning? I was rooting for the swat teams that we sent in there to kill the looters and the snipers that were preventing rescue teams from saving drowing people.
February 12th, 2006 at 2:39 pmWhat were you doing when people were drowning? I was rooting for the swat teams that we sent in there to kill the looters and the snipers that were preventing rescue teams from saving drowing people.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I —
I doubt that you are really interested in where I was while people were drowning in New Orleans; but to give you an honest answer, I was visiting China, a major creditor nation to the US. Afterwards, I was in Japan, another one of our creditors. From the experience of seeing the news related in other countries, I can say that a lot of people over there wonder why the richest nation on earth did so little to help its citizens.
February 12th, 2006 at 9:47 pmTOTAL INFORMATION PROGRAM = GESTAPO. SEIG HEIL!!!! WE MUST STOP these fascist bastard here and now dead in their tracks by whatever means necessary or we will see a NAZI AMERIKA.
February 12th, 2006 at 10:24 pm[…] But that’s why we have ThinkProgress - they keeps tabs on this stuff. […]
February 13th, 2006 at 9:45 amI can say that a lot of people over there wonder why the richest nation on earth did so little to help its citizens.
Comment by Lora
Since the news over there is only slightly less corrupted by Leftist Bush hating propaganda than our own it’s no wonder they think that.
China huh? Doing business with the Red’s slave labor combines or were you sneaking in non-party authorized Bibles?
February 13th, 2006 at 5:13 pm[…] From ThinkProgress: SEN. RON WYDEN (D-OR): I and others on this panel led the effort to close it [Total Information Awareness]. We want to know if Mr. [John] Poindexter’s programs are going on somewhere else. Can anyone answer that? … HAYDEN: Senator, I’d like to answer in closed session. […]
February 13th, 2006 at 8:54 pm#114 Since the news over there is only slightly less corrupted by Leftist Bush hating propaganda than our own it’s no wonder they think that.
China huh? Doing business with the Red’s slave labor combines or were you sneaking in non-party authorized Bibles?
Comment by I-RIGHT-I —
To I-WRONG=I,
Like President Bush during Katrina, I was on vacation (I’m sure you’ve heard of summer vacation, rightee). Hate to disappoint you, but I’ve never done work in China. As a matter of fact, it actually happens to be some of the most conservative big companies like Wal-Mart that are doing the most business there.
February 14th, 2006 at 2:55 amI also said I was in Japan, which is a very strong ally of the United States and currently has a conservative government with a prime minister well-liked by Bush. Still, I was asked by ordinary Japanese citizens why the US government, with all its resources, wasn’t reacting to sooner to the disaster.
To I-WRONG=I,
Like President Bush during Katrina, I was on vacation (I’m sure you’ve heard of summer vacation, rightee).
Comment by Lora
Nonsense, nobody vacations in Red China. You probably went there to get one of those internal organs they routinely harvest from pesky political non-conformists. Hope it works out for you.
Hate to disappoint you, but I’ve never done work in China. As a matter of fact, it actually happens to be some of the most conservative big companies like Wal-Mart that are doing the most business there.
More nonsense. The only thing conservative about global capitalists are their suits. It’s too bad you failed to tell them that the Feds showed up when they were asked by the State of Louisiana and that unlike their own country it is the State’s responsibility to be the first responders in any crisis.
February 14th, 2006 at 9:12 am#117
Nonsense, nobody vacations in Red China. You probably went there to get one of those internal organs they routinely harvest from pesky political non-conformists. Hope it works out for you.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
I-WRONG-I
February 14th, 2006 at 9:46 amYour above statement is so stupid that it actually isn’t even worth answering. You obviously have never been to China and know nothing about the tourist industry. I have stayed in the same hotels as tourists, for example, from red states like Ohio and Kansas, as well as plump old ladies from Australia. Believe it or not, but there are lots of non-communist tourists who want to see the Great Wall and other famous sites, and the Chinese are quite happy to accept capitalist money. You ought to check with some travel agencies before making such ignorant assertions.
This is a bit off topic, but I must ask my fellow liberals, progressives, etc to STOP BUYING INTO THE RED STATE / BLUE STATE THING. It drives me crazy - I live in Ohio and I am tired of being painted with a Red brush. It’s hard to hold on to much hope politically when your compatriots want to dismiss you out of hand.
If you think living in New York or LA is going to really make much of a difference when things really hit the fan, you are living in a dream world, which might very well be part of the problem with progressive politics. The “liberal elite” label sometimes applies…
February 14th, 2006 at 12:49 pmIf you think living in New York or LA is going to really make much of a difference when things really hit the fan, you are living in a dream world, which might very well be part of the problem with progressive politics. The “liberal elite†label sometimes applies…
Comment by Diane
I think it does make a difference the way people vote in where you live. Red states are friendlier, more homey, prices lower, kids better behaved, the grass is greener, the sky is bluer and there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Compare that to Blue states where the people live under socialist tyranny and atheism, treason and sodomy are the norm. You are lucky to be in a red state. I sure wouldn’t want to be surrounded by limp wristed liberals when the Muslims nuke us and the SHTF (shit hits the fan).
February 14th, 2006 at 2:59 pm#119
February 14th, 2006 at 6:22 pmI apologize for making such distinctions–particularly about Ohio, where I, in fact, have some very nice relatives. I used the “red state” term in my #118 comment mainly to make the content easier for ignorant bigots like IRI to understand.
Anyway, these comments have gotten completely off the topic of Total Information Awareness. Any comments on that, IRI, instead of ignoring the facts that the “bluer skies” in Houston became under Gov. Bush the most polluted in the US or that one of Cheney’s own daughters is gay?
Any comments on that, IRI, instead of ignoring the facts that the “bluer skies†in Houston became under Gov. Bush the most polluted in the US or that one of Cheney’s own daughters is gay?
Comment by Lora
Lady, I wasn’t speaking specifically of Houston where the polution figures you are alluding to were rigged to make George look bad. Give me a break. LA or the Rust Belt around Chicago would kill someone used to Houston air. I was speaking in generalities about the favorable conditions where the majority of people fear God, love our country and vote for people who don’t encourage killing babies, putting our troops in danger and male rump humping.
What has Dick’s daughter have to do with anything? Are you trying to tell me that muff diving is icky? It doesn’t bother me any. Been there Sugar. You gotta do what you gotta do.
February 14th, 2006 at 9:23 pm#122 I-Wrong-I,
I have no problem with Mary Cheney being a lesbian. I brought this up only because I do have trouble with Rethugs who hypocritically ignore the fact that there are gays in both parties and in the so-called red states, too. Let me remind you that it was a Texas Repugnancan who hired gay prostitute Jeff Gannon/James Guckert to pose as a White House reporter.
As per your comment: “people who don’t encourage killing putting our troops in danger,” do you mean the Bush administration, which ignored the opinions of experienced generals on the actual number of troops needed to succeed in Iraq, a country incidentally not involved in 9/11, and then sent a totally inadequate number without adequate body armor and without a sufficient number of people capable of translating between Arabic and English? Please give me a break, Rightee.
As for your comment in #120: “Blue states where the people live under socialist tyranny and atheism, treason and sodomy,R