Bush Lobs Michael Moore a Softball
By on Feb 17th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Bush Lobs Michael Moore a Softball
Bush today:
I knew we were at war when they attacked us. As a matter of fact, I was down here in Florida. It didn’t take long to figure out what was going on.
The Memory Hole reminds us just how long it took.
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7 1/2 minutes of staring into space.
February 17th, 2006 at 3:32 pmLOL Bush was reading the “My Pet Goat” book and enjoying the pics inside! He could care less that planes crashed into the WTC towers and the Secret Service did NOT care to even take him out of the school to safety! 9/11 was a vile conspiracy and Dubya’s actions that day prove it!
February 17th, 2006 at 3:37 pmI think those 7 and a 1/2 minutes just go to show how big of a puppet he is. When no-one tells him what to do or say, he is useless.
February 17th, 2006 at 3:38 pmMost of what comes out of his mouth that is not scripted really doesn’t make much sense. he says in 17 words what could be said in 3 while using as many adjectives as he possibly can. What baffles me the most is that THIS MAN WAS RE-ELECTED!
February 17th, 2006 at 3:41 pmThis is how seriously I take anything he claims:
“I don’t know where [Osama bin Laden] is. I’ll repeat what I said: I am truly not that concerned about him.”
Brady briefing room, Mar 13, 2002
“I just don’t think I ever said I’m not worried about Osama bin Laden. It’s kind of one of those exaggerations.”
February 17th, 2006 at 3:41 pm3rd Presidential Debate, October 13, 2004 (See his Mar 13, 2002 quote)
#3 Yes, but he’s a strong leader once someone tells him what to say.
February 17th, 2006 at 3:41 pmIt was so kind of him to put those kids lives in the classroom ahead of the thousands of lives in danger in Washington, Pennsylvania, and D.C.
Oh wait.. Bush is kind of a major target, so in a sense he was putting the kids in danger too.
WHAT A LEADER!
February 17th, 2006 at 3:41 pmWouldn’t a highly trained fighter pilot (yeah, right) jump up immediately, get as much information as possible, assess the situation immmediately?
Yes, one would.
February 17th, 2006 at 3:45 pmThose 7 1/2 minutes were after the second attack.
February 17th, 2006 at 3:47 pmAnd he didn’t figure it out. An aide had to tell him, “America is under attack.”
February 17th, 2006 at 3:48 pmI knew we were at war when they attacked us…but I was reedin’ kids a story. It’s not that I cared what happened to those people in the buildings, but I knew that I could become the most powerful president ever. I couldn’t get up for 7 and a half minutes ’cause I had such a chubby and it wouldn’t go down.
February 17th, 2006 at 3:48 pm#1 – AND how far did this attack get you? It got you a conservative President re-election victory, a 55 senate conservative majority and a House where Democrats are silenced. (Don’t forget Sam Alito and John Roberts).
I would suggest a more salient attack against the President OR an even better idea – a positive agenda on how liberals could better fight terror. A good starting point would be blocking Bush on outsourcing our port security.
I pity the left. Plainly said, you are DUMB. You’re totally detached from reality and miss the mark almost every time. I am concerned about our future because Bush is far from perfect. But the terror sympos on the left are the real problem – if you weren’t so totally detached from reality, we might have an oppo party that can fight Bush on substance. Not hate and stupidity.
February 17th, 2006 at 3:52 pm# 5:
Here’s some additions to chronological flip flop of good ‘ol GW.
“The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him.”
September 13, 2001
“I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.”
Mar 13, 2002
“I don’t know where [Osama bin Laden] is. I’ll repeat what I said: I am truly not that concerned about him.â€
Brady briefing room, Mar 13, 2002
“I just don’t think I ever said I’m not worried about Osama bin Laden. It’s kind of one of those exaggerations.â€
3rd Presidential Debate, October 13, 2004 (See his Mar 13, 2002 quote)
“We’re on a constant hunt for bin Laden. We’re keeping the pressure on him, keeping him in hiding.” March 3, 2005
Bush is strong on terror? Ummmmm…. riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
February 17th, 2006 at 3:52 pmHey, Rightly so…
I would suggest a more salient attack against the President OR an even better idea – a positive agenda on how liberals could better fight terror. A good starting point would be blocking Bush on outsourcing our port security.
Democrats plan bill to block Dubai-US port deal
How’s that?
We’re dumb? We’re not the ones who chose Bush to be our party’s and country’s leader…. that was you guys.
February 17th, 2006 at 3:56 pmThe tinfoil hat in my says: “Why did the Secret Serivce literally pick Deadeye Dick Cheney(Shotgunner of 78 year men’s faces) and rush hin into his bunker in the Whitehouse.
But, Bush in a public place, a school, much less secure than the Whitehouse and he was allowed to tool around like the dolt he is for minutes and minutes. Then, knowing that the plane was reportedly targeted, they send him up in the plane?
Hmmm…….
-GSD
Oh yeah, and Bush was in office when the US was attacked and 2,900 Americans were killed.
February 17th, 2006 at 3:57 pm#12 – Hate and stupidity is what comes from the right wing neo-cons every single day. This is without mentioning corruption and greed. There is more than enough substance and plain old facts to make a open and shut case against Bush and his admin. Why it hasn’t happened yet is beyond me.
February 17th, 2006 at 3:58 pmDo you have a link for this quote?
February 17th, 2006 at 3:58 pmRightly so..conflates those who disagree with Bush as terrorist sympathizers…..nice little rhetorical lie.
Bush is letting terrorists kill over 2 Americans a day for around 3 years.
Heckuva job.
-GSD
February 17th, 2006 at 3:59 pm#12,
February 17th, 2006 at 3:59 pmAh yes, it’s the Dems fault for having Bush in the White House. Um who did you vote for? And about missing the mark..name one thing the Repubs and this administration have gotten right….please…one. Shifting the blame onto others and not taking responsibiy for your actions and votes…the Conservative way.
Caption Contest: “If I keep looking down, then the teacher won’t see me and ask me a question…”
February 17th, 2006 at 4:00 pmRightly So…,
The biggest problem is not us or the people on the left. It is the Democratic “leaders” in Washington that are not on the same page as there constituents and do not fight back against what the Bush administration is doing.
Do the math.
Democrats not winning in Washington.
Democrats not on same page as us.
Maybe it is time that the Democrats got on the same page as us, so we could win. The problem is that most of the Democratic leaders are just Republican lite.
They do not represent our point of view.
The people here wanted Paul Hackett. Schumer just told Hacketts contributors to stop donating to his campaign. Does this sound like the Democratic leaders are on the same page as the posters here?
February 17th, 2006 at 4:01 pmRightly So…? Another Limbannity parrot in our midst? The challenge is hereby presented: Say anything of consequence regarding this debate that is not repeated ad nauseum on Limbannity or their clones.
In the meantime…here’s a cracker you parrot.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:01 pmIn post #12 Rightly So tells us that liberals should do something of substance, like trying to block the outsourcing of America’s ports, to show they’re stronger on security issues than GW.
In post #14, I show him they are doing just that.
Nothing but the chirping of crickets from him since.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:06 pmWhen I think about GWB I think of two things:
- the economic theory that some companies are “too big to fail”
- The emperor’s new clothes
February 17th, 2006 at 4:08 pmHistory will judge this president as being in office during the worst intelligence failure in the history of the United States of America and the worst terrorist attack on US soil. This is his legacy. 9/11 and Iraq are Bush’s legacy. Both are examples of colossal incompetence and ignorance. All president’s have their legacies that cannot be refuted.
FDR – New Deal and WWII triumphant
February 17th, 2006 at 4:08 pmTruman – ditto
Eisenhower – moderation with strength
Kennedy – preventing nuclear war by going with his gut
LBJ – Vietnam
Nixon – Watergate and secrecy
Ford – honorable
Carter – truly good man, not up to the job
Reagan – assisted in killing Communism, simple man
Bush – Gulf War
Clinton – Impeachment, good economy
Yep, that’s where I was, down here in Florida.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:09 pmAnd now, with the staged ‘pearl harbor event’ under my belt, the american sheeple will follow my dumb ass anywhere.
Just watch and see. We’ve been waiting for this opportunity for a long time, and I don’t plan to waste my ‘political capitol’ the way my daddy did. No-sir-ee, no way. This is the start of my ‘War Time Presidency’! Yee-hawwww!
Look Rightly So does have a point, albeit wrapped in tinfoil. The only issue the GOP is polling consistently well on is security/terrorism. It must be negated in the next few months. The problem seems to leadership implementation, or lack of. If the caucus does not come out with a unified coherent message countering this issue, we will not regain either the house or senate.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:11 pmI suppose if we blow up a bunch of stuff and kill a lot of people, that would convince the heartland people we’re strong on defense. Wouldn’t help our security, but making the NASCAR crowd feel good about themselves is what wins elections these days.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:13 pm#21 – Paul Hackett is a scum bag and we have things on him that would have ruined you. He is a LIAR. He is a left-wing attack dog – something you desperately need to get away from.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:14 pmNow c’mon, 7 1/2 minutes isn’t really that long an amount of time. Maybe if your high-rise office building has just been slammed into by a 747, or your plane is hijacked and you’re headed for a nose dive into a Pennsylvania field, I can see where that may feel like an eternity, but other than that, no biggie.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:15 pmWell Cynical
I hope it will appeal to the NASCAR crowd without fucking the Constitution or “blowing shit up”. However, any message to counter this issue is a step in the good direction.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:16 pmSomeone here said something about not using “hate and stupidity.”
Then that same someone said: “Paul Hackett is a scum bag” and “He is a LIAR”.
Someone needs to heed his/her advice me thinks.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:17 pmAll together now… PLEASE GOD MAKE THEM GO AWAY!!
February 17th, 2006 at 4:18 pmAnother thing that appeals to the NASCAR crowd is making fun of and insulting liberals.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:18 pmRightly So much a pussy
Go dig your “hole of saddam” behind the washer in your basement. You will feel so much safer eunuch when you squat in it.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:19 pm#33 – Democrats are doing you a favor by pulling his candidacy. There is evidence that he is not who presents himself to be. AND I didn’t say anything about Hackett that Hackett has not said about Bush.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:19 pmWell that didn’t work. What’s next?
February 17th, 2006 at 4:20 pmWe could try that. How about this: Them liberals are so stupid that California only the fifth largest economy in the world! They’re so stupid they come up with all the innovation in this country! And they don’t watch NASCAR! What’s wrong with these people?
Better?
February 17th, 2006 at 4:20 pmThat’s a good start cynical.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:21 pm#38 You’re talking about the guy who nearly unseated the Republican Mean Jean? If you got the goods on him, she could have used your help.
Now, you’ll need to attack the helicopter pilot who lost her legs in Iraq. I’m sure you can get the goods on her too.
I mean that’s what counts, right? Not issues or strategy or anything.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:21 pm#28 – Does “Rightly so” have a point? Yes, he does. The Democrats have not been all that good at getting out a unified message. It comes from being the party of inclusiveness and allowing fellow Democrats to have opposing points of view. The Republicans are the party of exclusion: if you don’t agree with us, go away, we just don’t give a flying fart for you unless you drink the kool-aid and sell your soul to us. It makes it VERY easy to get out the message when you tell everyone in your party what to think.
What “Rightly so” is failing to do is to hold the Republican party responsible for their failures. And these are Republican massive failures of immense proportions!
Federal budget: largest deficit EVER.
Size of government: grown over 15% because of so-called ‘small government’ Pres. Bush.
Military readiness: not much left, because of so-called ‘support the troops’ Pres. Bush.
Veterans healthcare: less money than growth in Veteran rolls, because of so-called ‘support the troops’ Pres. Bush.
Now, it seems that “Rightly so†hates our veterans! Did he serve the country by enlisting? Probably not, because that would take ethics and morals, something the Republi-trolls are sadly lacking in, just like Pres. Bush.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:22 pm#40 – Why is California a mess? Why did they have rolling black outs? Why is there so much racial tension? You’re an idiot.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:22 pmAgreed Cynical
But to peel off just 10% of them, we could regain both Houses.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:22 pm“There is evidence that he is not who presents himself to be. AND I didn’t say anything about Hackett that Hackett has not said about Bush.” – - Great, now the Right is here to Swift-byte Hackett.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:22 pmThe heartland knows it. You can’t trust people who invent things like computers instead of watching cars drive in a big circle.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:23 pm#30 – Hey jerk, have you ever served in the military? My geuss is NO, because most Republicans are to much of a coward to stand up for their country. They would rather steal from it than serve it.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:24 pmSoldier
Spot on there. But if this issue is negated, they have nothing but the kult of bush left.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:25 pm#44 – Because the Texas energy companies raped California! DUHHHHHH!!!!!
go ahead and listen to the lies the MSM and the ultra-radical right feeds you, and slurp it all down with the kool-aid. As long as you don’t have to put your brain in gear, you don’t have to wake up and realize the truth.
I am one Veteran who woke up to the Republican lies before I lost my soul.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:25 pm#44 We had rolling blackouts because Enron shut down 75% of the electricity grid, and Bush said it’s not his problem.
Racial tension? You mean like in the South? Sorry, I don’t see any racial tension here. We get along pretty well in fact.
Yep I’m an idiot. Maybe if I watch cars drive around in a circle and fly the Confederate flag it will smarten me up.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:26 pmI hate to repeat myself, but unlike when conservatives are talking with conservatives, I won’t let one get away with not answering a tough question:
In post 23, I said:
In post #12 Rightly So tells us that liberals should do something of substance, like trying to block the outsourcing of America’s ports, to show they’re stronger on security issues than GW.
In post #14, I show him they are doing just that.
Rightly so, are you going to respond?
Or just call a veteran of the Iraq war names? You know what a veteran is, right? They’re the people that go and serve in the army and not get 6 deferments or skip National Guard duty. They’re also the people that keep getting their benefits cut by the administration/Republican Congress while they chant “SUPPORT THE TROOPS!”
February 17th, 2006 at 4:26 pmKind of makes you wonder if that Hackett “wisper” campaign was not the GOP eunuchs.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:26 pm“AND I didn’t say anything about Hackett that Hackett has not said about Bush.”
Oh then that makes it ok for you to say. Duhhhhh…okay
So where’s your mountains of proof “against” Hackett?
February 17th, 2006 at 4:28 pmIf you don’t follow the Geneva conventions and let your military run amok without oversight and proper punishment then you can have “the goods” on anyone. By design? That is the way the intel. community works.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:29 pmHackett has called Bush a liar and a chickenhawk. SO, he is allowed to throw those charges around and I am not.
This is why you fools are doomed to minority. Harry Reid pulling the plug on this loose cannon is about the smartest thing he’s done as Senate Min Leader.
The left-wing is good at throwing out nasty invective, but can’t seem to “hack-ett” when the same is done to them. Paul Hackett is a shithead and he would pay for all the nasty lies he said about President Bush in a statewide race. We would have come after him with sledgehammers and enjoyed it!!! AND we have taken the bait every time.
AND you idiots are too dumb to realize what Harry Reid did for you.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:29 pmQuiet Faith
He is wispering it now.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:29 pmHarry Whittington was just released from the hospital and he spoke to the press for a couple minutes > he said that he was sorry Cheney had to suffer {by the mean press} for accidentally shooting him?
Sounds like he does not care he got shot, or scared if he says otherwise that Cheney will shoot him again?
February 17th, 2006 at 4:31 pm“Why did they have rolling black outs?”
Well it had nothing to do with liberals you idiot.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:31 pmBack on topic — Georgie is a dipshit.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:31 pmThe word is there is a video of Hackett committing war crimes. Don’t know who has it, but someone on the left is nervous for them to pull the plug the way they did. Of course the GOP will be blamed, but that won’t jive with the voting public when it was Democrats that told him to get lost.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:32 pmOh boy, we have a clever eunuch boychild postin again!
can’t seem to “hack-ettâ€
Jesus son, go play at school.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:32 pmHey Rightly So How about we go and do a little hunting? Since my guess is that you have no military experience, I bet that I will be the only one comming back.
Wanna do some hunting, looser?
February 17th, 2006 at 4:32 pm#53 – Amen! While I used to fall for the crap about how Republicans are the party that supports the troops, that was back when I was a private and didn’t know any better than to question our elected leaders.
Righgt before I got out of the service, I started researching the issues and quickly found out how much the Republicans hate Veterans by under funding the VA and closing down more and more Veterans medical facilities.
Don’t get me wrong, there are some Democrats who have been less-than-perfect, but it’s the Republicans who are talking out their a** when they claim to support the troops. Many more Republicans voted to under fund the VA than Democrats.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:32 pmI have pictures of Bush committing war crimes. All of the Abu-Grab photos prove Bush has and continues to comit them.
So what’s your point? My proof is more damaging than yours. Hackett was probably ordered to do those things, by the superiors of guess who??? YEAH BUSH!
February 17th, 2006 at 4:34 pm#40,
yes all the cutting edge technology, medical advances, innovation comes from the east or west coast. How well would Jesusland do if the coastal liberals just disappeared?
February 17th, 2006 at 4:34 pmWow, Rightly So.. is really out there. I wonder if he was hatched from the same clutch as I-Right-I. A lot of hate there. I guess they have to hate the Dems though..it’s in their blood to hate minorities.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:35 pmI’m sure most of us vets know, the GOP is the party of deferments.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:35 pmSo, “Rightly So”, have you spent time in the military?
Come on, it’s not a hard question to answer.
You seem quite willing to attack a person based on his military service, are you man (or woman?) enough to provide service to the US? Or are you another chicken-hawk who supports war but refuses to “put your money where your mouth is”???
February 17th, 2006 at 4:35 pmRighty So
But the terror sympos on the left
Where? Seriously… can you point me to a liberal that sympathizes with terrorists? From what I have seen there is this on the left…
1) Peace activists…all peace all the time… dont believe in violence ..including terrorism
2) Believers in the American Way …not dream of riches … that would fight to the death for Liberty as a just cause. (Iraq wasnt a just cause so no support from us there) These types of people fought in WWII. Terrorists are religious nuts that want to take away people liberty to make political points or force change. So no support for terrorists here.
3) Religious Conservatives that believe in strong societies that work to better themselves. These people are pretty much republicans except they believe in using the governments power to do big things for little people. These types of people fought in WWII. These people dont like terrorists pretty much for the same reason as the republicans…fear…religion …etc.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:35 pmThe Deomocrats allow disagreement, and progressive veiws in their party, this is a mistake because the average mouth-breathing American needs a simple, unified, message. Why do you think the Mormons do so well?
February 17th, 2006 at 4:38 pmRightly so Is that a one pound sledgehammer you are swinging? you right wing fruit. They insulted my daddy Bush WAAAAAAwAAAAAwAAAAA.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:38 pmKeep whining right-wing girl. My Daddy is a good dadd D who who who who pissssssssssssssssss
Dlet
He is a boychild, guess about 16 from his posts> Could even be IRI.
As for the picture of Hackett (not a video eunuch boychild), it is another Marine (not Hackett) throwing a body bag into a truck after a battle. Part of the shity business of being a soldier in war. Boychildren do not know of such things.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:38 pmGerald Gibson – Cindy Sheehan called them freedom fighters. Howard Dean tried to equate Iran with Bush. Dick Durbin slandered the troops over unproven allegations of suspected terrorist treatment at Gitmo. I could go on.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:38 pmI mock the left. Thank you for being tone deaf. Thank you for giving us Alito and Roberts. Thank you for giving us Fox News. You guys have done a wonderful job of destroying liberalism. Thank you.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:40 pmRightly So,
California’s energy problems came from Bush Cronies like Ken Lay who looted the state, and didn’t deliver.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:40 pmRightly so much a boychild
Please go on, to the baby sitter. I’m sure she is worried bout ya.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:41 pmRightly so is NED and man,I’ve seen your picture, and you are butt ugly.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:41 pmSo, you are saying that the Democrats should stick with the current crop of Bush apologists and keep losing elections.
Great political advise from the right.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:41 pm#75 – Hey, “Rightly Wrong!”
Why are you ignoring the question?
Have you put your life in service of the country, or not?
Are you a true “chicken hawk” who cheers for war but has ‘other priorities’ and chickens out of service, or are you active duty or a veteran?
Come on, it’s not a hard question to answer. Unless you’re too scared to be truthful.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:41 pmMan, the dude still hasn’t answered my question…
Rightly so said:
I would suggest a more salient attack against the President OR an even better idea – a positive agenda on how liberals could better fight terror. A good starting point would be blocking Bush on outsourcing our port security.
I replied with a link to a story about how they are doing just that. Since maybe it was too hard to drag the mouse over the link and then click it, here’s the important parts, Rightly so:
“Two U.S. Democratic senators said on Friday they would introduce legislation aimed at blocking Dubai Ports World from buying a company that operates several U.S. shipping ports because of security concerns.
Robert Menendez of New Jersey and Hillary Clinton of New York said they would offer a measure to ban companies owned or controlled by foreign governments from acquiring U.S. port operations.
“We wouldn’t turn the border patrol or the customs service over to a foreign government, and we can’t afford to turn our ports over to one either,” Menendez said in a statement.”
Rightly so…. response?
February 17th, 2006 at 4:42 pmstill waiting for a non-parrot comment RS
bbrrraaawwwwccckkkk!!
February 17th, 2006 at 4:42 pmYou are not George Bush therefore your attack is still yours.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:43 pmArnold Schwaschenegger (sp)
Eron
Because the minorities are kept poor by the rich.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:44 pmSue – love the passion, hate the Caps Lock.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:45 pmBobcat & Soldier
Really, he is a boychild. You are asking something his pubescent mind has no info on.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:46 pmThe way he continued to sit there in the school is obvious proof that he knew that the attacks were coming. The only thing that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeldt and Rice did not know was that the buildings would fall.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:47 pmThe difference is that Hackket was telling the truth. You are only making up stories in the “I know you are but what am I” kind of way.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:47 pm#40 – Why is California a mess? Why did they have rolling black outs? Righty So ..
Look up ENRON and company… they have technician employees on tape laughing and joking as they are shuting off electricty to California. That was done on purpose. And shortly after what did the GOP do? They blamed it on the Democratic governer of California and who steped in to save the day!!! Just like in T2!!! Arnold… what ..what …showmanship.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:47 pmAll together now… PLEASE GOD MAKE RIGHTLY SO GO AWAY!!
February 17th, 2006 at 4:49 pm#88 – Ain’t that the truth!
Ask a simple question (Have you spent time in the military?) and he cuts & runs like a coward.
I do think that people can question others based on their service (or lack thereof) but when you make false and baseless claims, you should have the moral fortitude to admit your own level of service (or lack thereof).
I guess it’s typical Republi-troll behavior: make false accusations and run before you are held responsible for your actions.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:49 pmProve it. Post a link. If the GOP had this video, they would have already used it long ago. You are full of sh!t.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:49 pmThe point we’re missing is that it didn’t matter what he did because HE WASN”T IN CHARGE. Cheney was. He seems to abdicated all presidental authority to the VP
February 17th, 2006 at 4:50 pm“The way he continued to sit there in the school is obvious proof that he knew that the attacks were coming. The only thing that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeldt and Rice did not know was that the buildings would fall.
Comment by Austin Talk”
Actually, they did know that…… How else were they suppose to get rid of the evidence?
February 17th, 2006 at 4:50 pmFolks, Rightly so a child, is a pubescent teen. Precocious children are to be ignored.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:51 pmWe didn’t give you Fox News moron.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:52 pm#91, if they gave awards for that kind of stuff, they would have won in several categories.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:52 pm#97 – I think you’ve got the wrong adjective in your post.
Precocious – intelligent, bright, gifted, talented.
I would recommend that you use: dense, mendacious, fallacious, erroneous, easily led astray.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:54 pmThe word is there is a video of Hackett committing war crimes.
So now you say American troops are committing war crimes?
February 17th, 2006 at 4:55 pmSue,
Where were you when I was asking TP two days ago to have a thread on the port situation, during the endless posting of Deadeye-Dick’s escapades?
February 17th, 2006 at 4:55 pmGerald Gibson,
You are exactly right. This was a right wing plan to get rid of Grey Davis. Everybody blamed him for the rolling black outs and recalled him from office, only to find out after Arnie was in that Enron had faked the whole thing.
California’s attitude toward Arnie was shown in his special election. Every one of his initiatives was shot down. He will not be relected.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:56 pmIs there really tapes of Enron techs laughing and joking as they intentionally shut off power in CA? And if there is, who went down for it?
February 17th, 2006 at 4:58 pm“Hackett has called Bush a liar and a chickenhawk. SO, he is allowed to throw those charges around and I am not.”
And Bush is a liar and a chickenhawk. You’ve called Hackett much more that he’s NOT called Bush. You are so blind and ignorant.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:59 pm“The word is there is a video of Hackett committing war crimes.”
Geee, I can see how you’re sooooo convinced of him being an awful person. You’re such an idiot.
February 17th, 2006 at 5:00 pm#104 – “Is there really tapes of Enron techs laughing and joking as they intentionally shut off power in CA? And if there is, who went down for it?” – - Geeze, you’ve never heard those? Your blood will boil. Someone know a link? Anyone?
February 17th, 2006 at 5:00 pmGo rent (or download) “Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room”…great documentary on the all of their shenanigans
February 17th, 2006 at 5:04 pm75 Righty So
Gerald Gibson – Cindy Sheehan called them freedom fighters. Howard Dean tried to equate Iran with Bush. Dick Durbin slandered the troops over unproven allegations of suspected terrorist treatment at Gitmo. I could go on.
Sheehan called who freedom fighters? Palastinians? Yep they sure are. Iraqis? Well since they are under occupation then yes they sure are. Did she say that about the actual terrorists? I sure hope not…
Howard Dean was right. Iran majority = freedom hating religious fundamentalists racists. Bush = Iran.
It has been proven that many of the people that got sent to Gitmo were just Afgahnis that never were part of AlQeada. You cant just say they all look alike. So looking out for your fellow many even though he talks funny and doesnt look like you is a GOOD thing ..you know WWJD??? Was Durbin talking about the actual terrrorists that got caught at Tora Bora? I hope not.
One thing you need to look into Righty So is something called honor. Look at how Democrats conduct a war. I am serious. I have watched hundreds of hours of footage about WWII. Look at how Americans treated germans after they were captured. When you are in the heat of the moment sometimes you have to do bad things like shoot a bunch of people you dont have time to “capture”. But doing what we are doing in Gitmo is unAmerican. Either these people are people or they are animals. If they are people then we are being dishonorable to OURSELVES treating people like that. If they are actual terrorists and are dangerous then get then officially locked up. This isnt dark ages England. You dont just send people off to the TOWER…
February 17th, 2006 at 5:04 pm“The word is there is a video of Hackett committing war crimes.” – - You have to remember that to the Republicans, merely speaking out against the war is considered a war crime. So, by that standard, yeah, Hackett’s a war criminal.
February 17th, 2006 at 5:04 pmBoy, look at W’s picture. He looks much younger. All that lying has put about 10-15 years on him.
February 17th, 2006 at 5:06 pmAnd Yes, Enron did purposedly bankrupt the state of California! Another corrupt,crooked crony of Bush’s, Ken Lay who Bush called “Kenny Boy”! Wake the hell up sheep! The greedy CEO’s and politicians from BOTH parties that support them are literally destroying not only America but the WORLD! Stop the corporate fascist police states and now, at home and abroad! Remove Bush and Blair immediately, and anyone else who supports this crap!
February 17th, 2006 at 5:06 pm107,
Did anyone go down for that? Is it in Ken Lay’s trial evidence?
February 17th, 2006 at 5:07 pmExpect Bush to be attacking Iran in March, while finishing “My Pet Goat”, he didn’t get to finish it.
February 17th, 2006 at 5:10 pmSue – I’m with you….. I get upset about this just as passionately. I would love to see Oswald do magic from the grave.
We do need to get this criminal bunch out. I send emails all the time to ALL senators at least once a month. I tried to post a copy of it, but it was counted as spam so it did not make it.
I have a GREAT deal of evidence, but they keep providing form letters in reply. On occassion I get a real answer, and when I do I reply back with rebuttle to their claims, usually stating that the 9/11 commission did a complete investigation.
I feel your pain and anger.
February 17th, 2006 at 5:11 pm#104
These are not exactly what I was thinking …either there are more tapes or I was off a little …anyway here it is… dont call me a conspiracy theorists…its real …like Curt Cobain said ..Just because I am paranoid doesnt mean they are not after me…
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/16/eveningnews/main623569.shtml
February 17th, 2006 at 5:12 pmhttp://www.wanttoknow.info/050209energyscandals
I don’t want anyone who served in the military serving in Congress. Those people have committed crimes against humanity and that makes them fit to serve as Senator.
Personally, I think George Bush and Dick Cheney should be hung from each end of the goal posts and let to die for the things they have done to this country. But, I will not pretend that it’s not patriotic to attack the military.
February 17th, 2006 at 5:18 pmThanks Gerald,
I now can cook pasta in my boiling blood.
February 17th, 2006 at 5:19 pmThe fact is that this administration can not do anything outside the bubble. If it isn’t on the schedule, if they don’t know exactly what is going to happen at every second of every day, they have no idea what to do.
It’s not that Bush should have jumped out of his chair on 9/11, it’s that he and his aides had no idea what to do.
They had no idea what to do when reports of the flooding in NO got to them.
When Bush took a question a few weeks ago from that girl asking him about the 12 billion in student loan cuts, he had no idea how to answer.
Even when they get concrete evidence that something very well could happen in the future, when it happens they have no idea what to do. RE:August 2001 PDB, Katrina warnings.
February 17th, 2006 at 5:20 pmAll REAL 9/11 comments deleted again.
February 17th, 2006 at 5:21 pmI’ve had with this site, off to somewhere else.
What are you affraid of TP?
#115 – Bush had a hand in both those disasters. He has a penchant for watching human suffering. IT is clear to anyone willing to look that Bush and his father and even the Clintons knew about 9/11.
AND Bush knew the levees would break – he didn’t care. The loss of life on that side of town would paint Louisiana red forever. Pigs.
February 17th, 2006 at 5:23 pm“All REAL 9/11 comments deleted again.
I’ve had with this site, off to somewhere else.
What are you affraid of TP?
Comment by John”
OMG! What the HELL!
So much for a COMMUNITY of progressives. This place has become a RedState.org site.
Chow!
February 17th, 2006 at 5:26 pmPerhaps Olbermann will bring this up tonight on Countdown while showing Bush reading The Pet Goat.
February 17th, 2006 at 5:35 pmScience cant prove how the buildings fell and it was considered impossible before 911. New buildings being built today still consider it impossible so do not try to design around the possiblity of fire melting construction quality steel. Until science can prove that what happened in 911 was physically possible it should continue to be questioned with the possiblilty of the offical storying being overturned. Not to “nail” Bush. Just to find the truth. I doubt anyone would let Bush in on a conspiracy so it has nothing to do with that. What is the truth? No matter where it leads. If it leads to a group of powerful rich democrats and republicans then so be it. If it leads to Osama only then so be it. If it leads to a collaboration between Israels mossad, DOD christian fundamentalists, and Osama then so be it.
The biggest silence is the big black hole where truth should be.
February 17th, 2006 at 5:35 pm#98, I didn’t know you put one there! And where did my comments go about immediately arresting Bush, and cohorts? Go to CNN too for info about ports from Lou Dobbs! Where in hell did my info about 9-11 go to? People need to know the truth! What is TP afraid of!? We are supposed to have freedom of speech in our nation! Get a clue,sheep! They are behind 9-11 and are in bed with terrorists! Demand their immediate removal from office and now! Where is my comments? Anyone wanted to research 9-11 go to http://www.reopen911.org and READ! The 9-11 commission was a TOTAL sham,almost ALL of those people had ties to Bush Adminstration! Demand TP put my comments back! What are they afraid of? The truth!? Stand up for America, against this lying,murdering,fascists who are destroying our nation!
February 17th, 2006 at 5:38 pmrightly-so(wrong!), why don’t you grow a pair of balls and join the army. IF you survive a tour of duty in Iraq, you will be much wiser, like the Vietnam experience was a real eye-opener was for me. I’m sick of these chicken(shit)hawks impugning my lack of patriotism and military service when they haven’t got a fucking clue about the real world.
February 17th, 2006 at 5:41 pmWaving the flag in our faces and shouting ’support our troops’ while ducking out of the fight is crass hypocrisy of the lowest sort. Check out the chickenhawk web site, it’s a who’s who the administration, the GOP congress, and their talking(shit)heads supporters.
Never, never has fire collasped a building! Never! Bush’s brother Marvin worked for the security firm of the WTC, Dulles and United! He has said not once but twice that he saw the FIRST plane hit towers when there was NO way he could have! There were at least 5 war games going on that morning that CHeney was in control of! One actually mirrored the attacks going on! THEY lied about war with Iraq, what makes you people think they are NOT lying about 9-11, too? Stop the sell of those ports to U.S.enemeies and arrest Bush,Cheney and others ASAP!
February 17th, 2006 at 5:44 pmGet a clue #105, Bush and cohorts and others in our gov’t were behind 9-11! Go to http://www.reopen911.org and READ! These bogus wars on “terrorism” was meant to suppress us here at home,while NOT going after Bin Laden! How many innocent people at home or abroad MUST this lying,murdering fascist regime kill before you people get a clue? How many more? They lied about catching Bin Laden,lied about stopping a fake attack on L.A., lied about WMD’s in Iraq,outsourced catching Bin Laden to “locals”,lied about ties of Iraq to 9-11 and now they are lying about Iran as well! Get a clue people! What makes you think they didn’t lie about 9-11, too? Now they want to sell our ports to KNOWN terrorists!
February 17th, 2006 at 5:57 pmscientific proof okay: melting point of titanium is 1688 degree celcius. in a pure oxygen enviorment jet fuel burns at 1000 degree celcius. and after researching all the fires in buildings that involved many more floors than the towers and not built to the strength of the towers NOT one, i repeat NOT one collapsed.
February 17th, 2006 at 6:26 pmHow about this as some more proof:
February 17th, 2006 at 6:33 pmNote that this fire is obviously much worse than the WTC, but it did not collapse.
February 17th, 2006 at 6:34 pmFinal result:
February 17th, 2006 at 6:38 pmnow that’s what i’m talking about removebush. i’ll repeat myself the only reason these reichwings can’t see the truth and stupidity is them is because there heads are so far up bushies butt the only time they see daylight is when he yawns. how do you put pics up? if you don’t mind.
February 17th, 2006 at 6:39 pmBS – when your posting, in the comment box, just above it are 6 boxes. bold, italic, link, blockquote, image, close tags.
In the first box place the link path.
In the second box place the picture title.
Hope this helps?
February 17th, 2006 at 6:42 pmHe stayed in the class room for 7 1/2 minutes but he stayed in the school much longer. As I recall, the second plane hit the WTC at 9.02, Bush left the school at about 9.35 and the Pentagon was hit at about 9.50. So, 48 minutes to do something to protect Washington and yet the Commander in Chief did NOTHING.
February 17th, 2006 at 7:07 pmThe Calif. electricity problems were caused by the legislature capping consumer prices without regard for the costs of generation. Then the legislature crafted a rule that if energy was imported,the costs could be higher whereupon some (Enron) players purchased power produced in Calif. routed it through Nevada and then brought it back to Calif. at higher prices.
February 17th, 2006 at 7:10 pmThe legislature and the Gov. conspired to cap consumer prices and ended up ruining the budget.
Shit — (R)s haven’t actually won a Presidential election since 1988.
See: “Fooled Again: How the Right Stole the 2004 Election & Why They’ll Steal The Next One Too” by Mark Crispin Miller.
February 17th, 2006 at 7:31 pmThe neocon agenda shortened:
February 17th, 2006 at 8:10 pmhttp://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&geopolitics_and_9/11=centralAsia
The only thing that truely surprises me about the so-called accidental shooting in Texas is that Cheney shot Harry not Dubya!
February 17th, 2006 at 11:40 pm131. Understand that 93 was delayed 20 minutes on the Tarmac. That screwed up the whole schedule. That’s why Ari held up a sign for Bush to hold tight. Kinda sucked for him…it didn’t got quite to script. He even screwed up his lines by admitting the truth that he saw the 1st plane hit on TV. But, hey, what do you expect from a selected pResident? Thinking on his feet isn’t one of his attributes.
February 18th, 2006 at 12:28 amBush is an appalling, arrogant ass. His speech today is one he has given countless times – he just repeats the same trite lines over and over. It’s amazing that people still listen. His speechwriters can’t be that dumb – they musst be tailoring their words to meet his abilities.
February 18th, 2006 at 12:49 amAs for the events of 9/11 — well that could keep us going all night. There are that many unanswered questions and doubtful explanations.
There is a comment that Bush made about 9/11. They play “Bushisims” on my local Air America station, and this is one that has stayed with me, first , just because I thought it was sooooo stupid, then as more of an “What was that???” What he said was, ( not exact quote) “When I was waiting to go into the classroom, I saw the first plane hit, and I thought, That’s one terrible pilot.” Once I really thought about it, I wondered HOW did he see the first plane? Do they just keep a TV on outside in the hallway? And if so why in the HELL did he just go in the classroom, and act like nothing had happened. It is just weird, you know?
February 18th, 2006 at 3:21 am#138, Cyra Brown and others, He has said not once but TWICE that he saw the FIRST plane hit tower, when there is NO way he could have as there was NO video out yet about it! He said that because there were at least 5 war games going on that morning of 9-11,that Cheney was in control of! One actually mirrored the attacks going on! Get the book quickly and read the “New Pearl Harbor” by David Griffin and then go to http://www.reopen911.org and READ! PEOPLE, THEY WERE INVOLVED AND BEHIND 9-11! And need to be removed ASAP! There is NO way he could have seen the FIRST plane hit the towers! The ahole sat there EVEN after the first 7min.s and did a damn photo-op for at least 1/2 hr. after our nation was under attack! His brother Marvin worked for same security firm of WTC,Dulles and United too! What does that tell you sheep!? They are behind 9-11 and we need to ALL demand they get removed from office ASAP! And now but FIRST stop that sale of our U.S. ports to KNOWN terrorists,that he is proposing! The deadline for the sale is March 2nd! IT MUST BE STOPPEP ASAP AND NOW! Hillary is introducing legislation stopping in as is others! RAISE HOLY HELL OVER THIS SHIT PEOPLE WHILE WE STILL CAN! Then he/they are building “detention centers” for protesters here in U.S. of A too! Go to http://www.propagandamatrix.com and READ! And spread info widely because corporate whore press isn’t doing their jobs as ususal except for Lou Dobbs and most are just promoting this criminal,murdering fascist BS of this damn Adminstration which with help from Congress is becoming a dictatorship and LITERALLY DESTROYING AMERICA FROM WITHIN! Bush has said before he wants to become a dictator and people don’t believe it,well they damn sure should because he is, right under their noses and with their help because they act like sheep and gutless majority are putting their own pocketbooks and their re-elections above America!GET A CLUE PEOPLE, THEY WERE BEHIND AND INVOLVED IN 9-11! IMMEDIATELY HAVE THEM REMOVED FROM OFFICE AND NOW BEFORE THEY BOMB ANOTHER INNOCENT PEOPLE OR KILL MORE PEOPLE AT HOME LIKE ALSO IN KATRINA WITH LACK OF HELP!
February 18th, 2006 at 5:25 amSue, honey, you should calm down, you’re going to give yourself a heart attack, thus depriving us of your impassioned posts. Now… BREATHE!!!
February 18th, 2006 at 6:03 am#138 funny the video of the first plane was not found or shown on national TV until after the both towers collapsed unless my memory is completely gone, can someone else help me out, I didn’t see any video until around late morning or early afternoon and I was watching like everybody else.
February 18th, 2006 at 6:55 am#139 Sue I hadn’t got to your post so thank you for answering my question before I asked it.
February 18th, 2006 at 7:01 amBUSH OUT AND OUT LIED about having seen the FIRST PLANE hit on a television before walking into that classroom. NO ONE had footage of it but two french film makers filming an independent film that day. The attack never aired on any news affiliates or CNN until AFTER the FIRST plane struck. I CANNOT believe NO ONE has questioned bush about this LIE of his. If he KNEW a plane DID hit, he KNEW VIA OTHER INTELLIGENCE and FUDGED IT UP by saying he saw it on TV.
February 18th, 2006 at 8:02 amI was an architect for 14 years before becoming a teacher. The collapse of the World Trade Towers has been studied by many engineers. There are any independent analysis reports that followed as well. From what I studied in college (I took my structural courses in the civil department alongside structural enginnering students), this is why I believe the towers collapsed:
From Stanford:
According to Hamburger’s preliminary analysis, the impact of the jetliners shattered and fractured two-thirds of the support columns on one face of each tower, causing the partial collapse of several floors. Debris penetrated each building’s core and may have damaged the core columns located in the center of the 110-story structures.
“The damaged columns held up the weight of the building, so logic would dictate that the building would fall,” said Hamburger, “but that didn’t happen. Because of its great structural redundancy, the load was distributed to other parts of the building. We have reason to believe that, without the fire, the buildings could have stood indefinitely and been repaired. But we did have a fire.”
“Steel is born of fire,” Hamburger explained. “As it’s reheated, it expands and loses its rigidity. Above 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit, it loses a significant amount of its strength.”
He said the extreme heat from the fires might have caused the steel floors to expand and bow, which may have caused the support columns to bend inward and buckle. Heat also may have caused the steel flooring to separate from the columns, or the columns themselves may have heated up and buckled outward.
“Think of the impact of dropping a 25-story building straight down,” Hamburger told the audience. “It was like a pile driver, which is why it collapsed as it did.”
http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2001/december5/wtc-125.html
February 18th, 2006 at 8:06 amFURTHER MORE
IF HE KNEW A PLANE HIT BEFORE WALKING INTO THAT CLASSROOM there is ALOT more going on that we do not know. And for him to CLAIM he knew a plane hit, but went on ahead with reading “My Pet Goat”, not feeling endangered and sat there smiling as if nothing was wrong in the world, and his SS wasn’t at all concerned about his protection from a terror attack on the school or other places, THEN THERE IS ALOT WE DO NOT KNOW. And it’s a nasty dirty little cover up that someday soon will emerge. I KNOW we can all bank on that. No one can lie forever and get away with it.
February 18th, 2006 at 8:06 amGuys, I’m on your side, but I think you can’t take anything George Bush says with any amount of credibility. He has a very fragile ego and serious self-esteem issues. He always tries to deflect criticism and personal accountability by lying about what he did or what he knew.
I think our government could have prevented 9/11, but I don’t think that they manufactured it. They just stood back and allowed it to happen. And if we want the right to take us seriously, we can’t suggest that this was staged from within. Maybe it was, but at this point, there’s not credible evidence to makeus look like anything more than left-wing conspiracy theorists. And nobody trusts those people on either end of the spectrum.
February 18th, 2006 at 8:16 am#146 Exactly !! I finally just came to the conclusion that it was another pathetic attempt to seem “with it”, so to speak. But in hindsight, it was a horribly insensitive thing for him to say. Oh so typical. I am embarrassed FOR him, at times. Painful to watch the endless struggle, as he tries to keep up. Really sad. Aaaahhhhh, if only stupidity was painful… that would be nice…..shock like a cattle prod… snicker…yeah…
February 18th, 2006 at 9:10 amBut the terror sympos on the left are the real problem – if you weren’t so totally detached from reality, we might have an oppo party that can fight Bush on substance. Not hate and stupidity.
Comment by Rightly So…#12
Rotten and Sore,
We’d be STUPID not to HATE Bushiva and L’il Dick after all of the damage they’ve done in Iraq, on katrina, and to working patriotic Americans…
Why do YOU HATE America so much?
Why are so slavishly devoted to a regime of cowardly, thieving, treasonous, mass murdering, lying, incompetent, racist,sexist, hegemonic, imperialist fu*kups?
Why are you so willing to give up what few rights and freedoms we have left, because these PROVEN liars say, “BOO! Somebody wants to kill you. But we’re here t’ protect th’ ‘merkin people”…
You and every Bush/Cheneyba*lickin a*skissin inbred you are allied with don’t deserve to be in this country…
You’re a pitiful excuse for a…
…I have no idea WHAT you are…
February 18th, 2006 at 9:55 amI am embarrassed FOR him, at times.
Comment by Cyra Brown — February 18, 2006 @ 9:10 am
Me too. I could tell in his first Speech of his second term that he was different from before. It was like he knew he had been a puppet. As if some of his ignorance had been clearly seen for the first time (how could anyone have missed it during that campaign?). He seemed humiliated on some level.
Unfortunely, he didn’t learn from it. I think it goes along with his Christian doctrine – like others of his religion who won’t admit they were wrong because wrong ultimately means Hell…
February 18th, 2006 at 10:40 amHow can anyone THINK PROGRESS with bush in power …wasting your breathe
February 18th, 2006 at 1:01 pmSpew – your wrong….. I can…… It was brought down by explosives. :)
February 18th, 2006 at 1:11 pmsorry for the typos… my typing skills are horrific..
February 18th, 2006 at 1:23 pmThe FAA bars cell phone use in flight as well as other electronic devices during takeoff and landing to avoid disrupting plane electronics. AirCell’s system would reduce cell phones’ power and limit the number in use at once.
The FCC bans use because of ground concerns. Cell phones often don’t work at 30,000 feet, but when they do, signals can reach hundreds of towers at once, clogging networks.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techinnovations/2002-10-22-air-cell_x.htm
February 18th, 2006 at 1:27 pmWanted to check my numbers, but here they are on teh melting point of steel:
“Most steel has other metals added to tune its properties, like strength, corrosion resistance, or ease of fabrication. Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F).”
http://education.jlab.org/qa/meltingpoint_01.html
February 18th, 2006 at 1:29 pmIt would have taken days to cause the steel to become week to cause a collapse, if it would have ever collapsed.
As an architect, in order to get a 2 hour fire code rating (meaning the structure could stand for 2 hours or longer if teh building was on fire), I had to specify fire proofing on steel structures (concrete is in itself fireproof).
http://www.natfire.com/ is a company that manufactures products I have personally specified for a project
February 18th, 2006 at 1:36 pm“Still, the study by the National Institute of Standards and Technology concluded that no amount of fireproofing could have saved the buildings.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28318-2005Apr5.html
February 18th, 2006 at 1:38 pm“Still, the study by the National Institute of Standards and Technology concluded that no amount of fireproofing could have saved the buildings.â€
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ articles/ A28318-2005Apr5.html
Comment by unbelievable
Yes, but it in no way truely addresses how the WTC collaped on its self. In fact, if memory serves they state that they connot state this to be fact because the models are not accurate enough. Also, the models to date do not show the towers falling in this manner. Why do you think that this information has not been widely distributed? The simulations of the buildings show that the events of the day were not the same.
Why would the building need to be shut down completely from the 50th floor up the weekend before the attack? No power at all? No cammeras? No evidence as to why the people were in and out of the building? Why would they need to shut down the electricity to replace network cable as told by the building manager? As far as I know, a network cable does not plug into any electric component, so there should be no need to kill power to the building. Why?
Why did they get rid of the bomb sniffing dogs just about a week before the weekend power shutdown???? Would it be because the dogs might detect the explosives?
If the fire was hot enough to cause the collapse, don’t you think that everyone in the fire area would have been burnt to a crisp? Yet there were tens of people standing in the hole trying to get some cool air from the fire that was there from the furniture. Sorry, man but the fire was not hot enough to cause the steel to weaken enough to cause a pancake effect. If it did get hot enough, then the top part of the building would have toppled. In fact, look at the top of this building. How can you explain the fact that this part did not end up laying in the street? It landed nicely on its own footprint. Only demolisions can cause this.
http://www.truecastdesign.net/911/samples/south20floors.php
February 18th, 2006 at 2:39 pmI have to run for now, but I will check for your replies when I get back home later tonight.
February 18th, 2006 at 2:44 pmHeres some more links to review while I’m gone.
Getting hit with the spam machine so I’ll have to post them individually.
Why was the Fire Safety Chief not questioned?
February 18th, 2006 at 2:47 pmhttp://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/may2004/050504bombsinwtc.htm
Heres some more links to review while I’m gone.
Getting hit with the spam machine so I’ll have to post them individually.
Or the Design Manager of WTC:
February 18th, 2006 at 2:47 pmhttp://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/141104designedtotake.htm
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/121104easilywithstood.htm
Heres some more links to review while I’m gone.
Getting hit with the spam machine so I’ll have to post them individually.
This one is REAL interresting.
February 18th, 2006 at 2:48 pmOr WTC Construction Certifiers:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/121104easilywithstood.htm
Heres some more links to review while I’m gone.
Getting hit with the spam machine so I’ll have to post them individually.
Or News Accounts of explosions:
February 18th, 2006 at 2:48 pmhttp://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/april2004/042704secondaryexplosions.htm
Or the Fire Fighters:
http://www.truecastdesign.net/911/samples/southfiremen.php
Using a cell phone on a plane has NOTHING to do with interfering with the equipment. It has to do with the fact that it is easier to keep the chatter down. The cell phones do not interfere with the equipment, because if it did you would not be able to use the cell phone 5 miles of the air port. Think about it!
Comment by RemoveBush — February 18, 2006 @ 2:29 pm
No argument from me on that, I’ve been saying it for years -except that it was about money – so people would use the airline providers phones at $30 a minute.
But weren’t the phone calls from the plane that crashed – minutes before it did – when it was much lower in altitude?
How is it impossible… and why would there be phone records from people who had died in the crash. I’ve heard a couple of them. How do you think they staged that? Considering people cannot keep their mouths shut… I don’t get that aspect.
February 18th, 2006 at 3:23 pmWhy would the building need to be shut down completely from the 50th floor up the weekend before the attack? No power at all? No cammeras? No evidence as to why the people were in and out of the building? Why would they need to shut down the electricity to replace network cable as told by the building manager? As far as I know, a network cable does not plug into any electric component, so there should be no need to kill power to the building. Why?
Why did they get rid of the bomb sniffing dogs just about a week before the weekend power shutdown???? Would it be because the dogs might detect the explosives?
Now this is interesting. Coincidences have been known to happen. I’ve worked in office buildings that did some sort of weekend shut downs for various system maintenence. Perhaps the extremists took advantage of that opporunity?
I’m not sold on working dogs. I’ve seen several studies that have indicated that they sometimes ‘detect’ stuff because they want the reward…
I do understand what you’re saying, but I just don’t see it. Sorry.
February 18th, 2006 at 3:28 pmIf the fire was hot enough to cause the collapse, don’t you think that everyone in the fire area would have been burnt to a crisp? Yet there were tens of people standing in the hole trying to get some cool air from the fire that was there from the furniture. Sorry, man but the fire was not hot enough to cause the steel to weaken enough to cause a pancake effect. If it did get hot enough, then the top part of the building would have toppled. In fact, look at the top of this building. How can you explain the fact that this part did not end up laying in the street? It landed nicely on its own footprint. Only demolisions can cause this.
It wasn’t fire that caused the collapse. It was the top portion of the building, severed by the plane, independently falling upon a building on fire, where the steel columns were in stress due to the intense heat of the internal explosion. It can’t be simplified to a fire. It’s more complex than that. It’s a series of events that caused the collapse.
And even if one of them is explosives. I do not yet see evidence that the explosives were planted by our government. I’m not convinced that they are that clever.
February 18th, 2006 at 3:36 pmRemove Bush,
You could very well be right. I only can speak to the architectural/structural aspect of the collapse. And on that regard, I have seen considerable independent evaluations that simply confirm my own expert opinion. Sure there are reports to the contrary. I expect that. I just don’t necessarily agree with them. And as a liberal, I feel that I need to be honest, even when it differs with my fellow Progressives.
At any rate, I think Bush does need to be removed from office. I think we need extensive political and ethical reform of our cuurent system, and I think that we will be lucky to get out of this with just the casualities that have occured to date…
I remember, in 8th grade when we read Anne Frank’s Diary, thinking how horribly unfortunate for those who were living in Germany at that time to be victims of circumstance, and how fortunate I was to live in a country that was democratic and free. Ironic, huh?
February 18th, 2006 at 3:46 pmThere needs to be a public enquiry into 911 before its too late …why is this not accepted
February 18th, 2006 at 5:06 pmGerald Gibson-
I watched the Enron-The Smartest Guys In The Room DVD last month. Watching and hearing what those cryptofacists did and say about the California wildfires made my blood boil. I haven’t seen it again since because when I look at the faces of those who praised the fires, I just want to diembowled every one of them.
Gray Davis got a bad rap and should deserve a second recall election or at best a chance at re-election.
February 18th, 2006 at 5:20 pm#161 – RemoveBush,
February 18th, 2006 at 6:13 pmI evaluated your “burned to a crisp” theory. Given that the Twin Towers were not at hand and my spouse was not willing to be a test subject, I used a six pound standing rib roast and the self cleaning cycle of my electric range. I learned three things: 1) There is a very simple means of removing meat and fat from bones., 2) You can generate considerable smoke reducing 4 lb. 14 oz. of meat and fat to fly ash. and 3) The roast cost $36 (My spouse told me that.).
I have not read all of these posts, went directly to comments.
You should know by know folks that the reason Bushie was so calm and everything was because he knew it was coming.
Bush wanted an excuse to get into Iraq so he had his lover boy in Saudi Arabia arrange for this attack on the US, allegedly by members of Al Qaeda.
It met his needs, did it not?
February 18th, 2006 at 6:26 pmIf the WTC towers had demolition charges installed before the planes hit the buildings, then that proves a conspiracy by the Bush Regime! No terrorists could or would have been able to do that > PERIOD. The DEMO charges would have to be remote controlled ones, and NOT wired together, so set off in numeric sequence by radio control or cell phone! Why would Bush agents do this? The planes hitting the buildings were for show only, but not enough to take the towers to the ground for dramatic effect, plus blowing the towers completely gets rid of all evidence! The day after 9/11 the debris was quickly removed to a land fill and the steel girders sent to China to be melted down, so a perfect crime!
February 18th, 2006 at 7:32 pmNo terrorists could or would have been able to do that > PERIOD.
I give up. You guys want a conspiracy, go ahead. I’ll leave you to it. I could be wrong, but I’m just not even remotely swayed. Too many years in physics labs intentionally breaking stuff, I guess.
February 18th, 2006 at 8:06 pmits not the first time nor last time that this, and other governments, have used false flag operations to foment war or regime change. Pearl Harbor was one. Vietnam gulf of Tonkin. The Spanish war (Hearst papers) On and On.
Men plan Wars. As hard as that is to believe, it is true.
February 18th, 2006 at 10:37 pmHey Unbelievable, if you don’t believe that our government would concieve such a plane then you should review this document conceived by our government to insight the American public to allow the military to invade Cuba.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwood
Now if the government would do something like this back then, how difficult do you think it would be for them to do something very similar now?
February 18th, 2006 at 11:34 pmPentagon had a old plan on the shelf from the 1960s of flying planes into buildings and blaming it on Castro, so the American people would become enraged and demand an invasion of cuba, which apparently was found on the shelf and changed to incite Americans for war on Iraq! Everything about 9/11 does NOT wash, especially when 3 buildings fell straight down in unison, which denotes DEMO charges! Tower #7 was NOT even hit by a plane and fell like the taller ones, so was/is it a conspiracy? YES unfortunately, but the Congress does NOT have the balls to investigate it!
February 18th, 2006 at 11:40 pm“It wasn’t fire that caused the collapse. It was the top portion of the building, severed by the plane, independently falling upon a building on fire, where the steel columns were in stress due to the intense heat of the internal explosion. It can’t be simplified to a fire. It’s more complex than that. It’s a series of events that caused the collapse.”
Correct, it was not the fire that caused the collapse. But let’s look at your statement. “It was the top portion of the building, severed by the plane”. Now does it not make sense that looking at the picture provided, that with the top part of the tower toppling at a 30 to 40 degree angle that it would fall to the ground outside of the WTC footprint?????? It did not…… It miraculously straightened and fell down onto the footprint of the building. Now what does Newtons Law say???
http://www.truecastdesign.net/911/samples/south20floors.php
According to Newton’s 1st law of motion, the Law of Inertia, and object in motion tends to stay in motion with the same speed and same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.
“But weren’t the phone calls from the plane that crashed – minutes before it did – when it was much lower in altitude?”
No… They were made going at 400MPH, at about 8,000 FT. This is still too fast and too high for cell phones to work.
How is it impossible… and why would there be phone records from people who had died in the crash. I’ve heard a couple of them. How do you think they staged that? Considering people cannot keep their mouths shut… I don’t get that aspect.”
Do you think that it is really that difficult for the government to fake the phone records? With todays technology do you think that it is difficult to stage the calls? It would take some work, but it is not completely impossible. So you think that those spys and Seal Units, who do Secret missions go around telling people what they have done? The Seals do missions almost everyday that is top secret, but people don’t know about them. So you see, people can keep secrets when it’s their job and if its their life or a chance that they will end up missing only to be found in some dark cell in some deserted prison somewhere.
“The columns were in the center of the building. The floors acted as diaphragms to keep them in position. What you say is true if the columns had been free standing, but they were were not. Therefore, the building could not topple, the floors at something like 15 to 20′ apart prevented that possibility.”
Did you look at the picture of the collapse I provided? The top part of the building is toppling, just as I would have expected it to, but it did not fall down as I or any reasonable thinking person would have expected it too. If you can tell me how Hundreds of tons of metal can stop from falling to the side after it is at a 30+ degree angle, then I will agree that the towers just pancaked. But there is no way that anything, other than explosives, could have stopped the topple. Wouldnt you agree? You say that you have years of experience in this area, please explain how about 10 floors of a building can just stop from the fall that it is in to suddenly land within it’s own footprint?
“Well, as you said earlier, steel conducts. The heat in the basement partly came from the steel conducting it there.”
Really? Then how did the elevator does get blown out at the bottom of the building? How did a 70 Ton hydrolic press get blown up in the basement? You might want to do some more research on the matter, because I don’t think you are looking at all the “coincidences” that there are for the day.
I too believe that there are coincidences in everything, but when there are hundreds of them in a single incident I then no longer think of them as that.
Finally, you think that your military is that inept that they could not do anything to stop these planes? They were prevented from doing anything. No band of 19 hijackers could make the military stand down, right? Also, why are there no Arab names on the Flight Manifests? How could the military perform DNA testing on bodies that had to of been burnt to a crisp, because they were telling us that the plane that hit the Pentagon was incinerated from the fire. So the metal of the plane, Titanium in some cases, was burnt up but the bodys of ALL the passengers were in tact for DNA analysis.
It sounds like you are a very intelligent and knowledgeable person, so I am curious as to why you don’t consider all of the facts of the day and ask youself why 80% of them don’t make any sense?
Did you know that the police was getting 911 calls that people were seeing missles being fired from the Woolworth building? There are released transcripts that you can pull up and read.
File No. 9110388
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
FIREFIGHTER PETER FALLUCCA
Interview Date: December 26, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
“It was a big fireball or something from the plane I guess, came from across the street in front of our rig, and as we get out of the rig, there’s a cop, city police officer, in the street. He’s telling us, “I’m getting out of here. I just saw a rocket.” He said he saw it come off the Woolworth Building and hit the tower. Now I see the two towers are hit. He says, “I just saw a rocket hit that building. I’m getting the F out of here. I’m getting out of here.”"
February 19th, 2006 at 12:07 amCorrect, it was not the fire that caused the collapse. But let’s look at your statement. “It was the top portion of the building, severed by the planeâ€. Now does it not make sense that looking at the picture provided, that with the top part of the tower toppling at a 30 to 40 degree angle that it would fall to the ground outside of the WTC footprint?????? It did not…… It miraculously straightened and fell down onto the footprint of the building. Now what does Newtons Law say???
I already explained why the building fell straight down. The floor systems acted as diaphragms and prevented it from falling over. That was basic Statics and Structural Analysis in college. It’s called a rigid frame.
I don’t think I can say anything else. You guys want a conspiracy, and so you see one. But to me, it just doesn’t add up in the collapse of the towers knowing what I know about structures. And, maybe, in knowing our government – how their egos are far bigger than this. 9/11 was tragic, but I think it’s nothing compared to what’s about to happen, while we’re being diverted from it.
Nice talking to you.
February 19th, 2006 at 8:36 amIT was an inside job! He is not once but twice that he saw the FIRST plane hit the towers, when there is NO way he could have. PLus did you people know that his brother Marvin worked for security firm of WTC,Dulles, and United? Or that there where at least 5 war games going on that morning that Cheney was in charge of? One actually mirrored the attacks going on! IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB,PEOPLE AND WE MUST REMOVE IMMEDIATELY THE WHOLE BUSH REGIME AND OTHERS,ASAP,TO SAVE AMERICA! AND NOW BEFORE HE SELLS THOSE PORTS TO KNOW TERRORISTS! And now he wants to sell 6 of our U.S. ports by March 2nd to KNOWN terrorists. Plus he invited an KNOWN terrorist to hear his State of the Union speech! Read this article: http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0202-32.htm
February 19th, 2006 at 9:08 amBush is involved TOO! How much more info to you sheep need to be convinced they and others where behind 9-11!? They needed an excuse or in their own terms a”New Pearl Harbor” for their INSANE PNAC plans to go faster! 9-11 was their “New Pearl Harbor” Go to Google and type in PNAC and READ! Go to Rebuilding America’s Defenses, and read pages 26 and 63! Demand their IMMEDIATE removal from office and NOW! Please anyone reading this info, PLEASE,PLEASE, if you LOVE America, demand the immediate arrest of Bush,Cheney, Condi, Rummie and others! And I am upset someone erased my two previous comments! Read David Griffin’s book “The New Pearl Harbor”! Go to http://www.reopen911.org and READ and watch the video and see the little puffs of smoke BELOW where the planes hit, further proving explosions in towers!
If terrorists had been able to put explosive charges into the WTC towers before the planes crashed into them, then they would have placed them in a way to topple the towers over so they would have fallen on other buildings and done more damage! The DEMO charges were placed to bring the towers straight down for dramatic effect, so that proves a conspiracy by Bush agents to give him excuse to attack Iraq!
February 19th, 2006 at 9:39 amThe power was turned off in those towers the weekend before 9-11! There by inabling those cameras for security! IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB FOLKS AND WE MUST CONVIENCE OTHERS ASAP TO GET THOSE S.O.B’S OUT OF OFFICE ASAP, AND CONVICTED ASAP! AND NOW, OR GET THEM ARRESTED IMMEDIATELY TOO! AND TO STOP THE SALE OF OUR U.S. PORTS, TOO!
February 19th, 2006 at 10:13 am#25, AND REST OF SHEEP, THIS IS NOT INCOMPETENCE OR INGORANCE BUT BY DESIGN! THEY ARE IN BED WITH THE TERRORISTS! GO TO http://WWW.COMMONDREAMS.ORG AND READ ARTICLE WHERE HE INVITED A KNOWN TERRORIST TO HIS STATE OF UNION SPEECH! TYPE IN 9-11 CONSPIRATOR AT BUSH’S COURT AND READ,SHEEP! HE ONLY ACTS DUMB TO GET BY WITH THIS SHIT! HE/THEY ARE DESTROYING AMERICA FROM WITHIN! AND IT IS BY DESIGN, DUMB ASSES! HE WANTS TO BE A DICTATOR, MORONS AND IT IS WORKING, THANKS TO GUTLESS, CORORATE WHORE R’S AS WELL AS D’S HELPING HIM! IT IS BY DESIGN PEOPLE, PLEASE, I am begging ALL true good American’s to get their heads out of their asses and see that ALL OF THIS SHIT IS BY DESIGN! His act of being stupid is JUST THAT, AN ACT! So dumb ass sheep like you people don’t take him seriously! An act to get by with TREASON, war crimes, war profiteering,etc. Wake the HELL UP! Demand his/their immediate removal and NOW! Before they pull off another 9-11 or sell those 6 ports to KNOWN terrorists! Demand they be arrested ASAP by U.S. troops if necessary! AND NOW!
February 19th, 2006 at 10:19 amunbelievable – you stil have not EXPLAINED how the building top at a 30 or 40 degree angle all of a sudden straightened out and fell straight down on its own footprint?
Did you not look at the picture I provided? It’s not a conspericy theory. It’s BASIC PHYSICS. The only wya that top part wouid have straightened up is if explosives “pulled” the top back in.
If you can explain this then I MIGHT believe your explaination, but so far you are only giving me the “trust me” explaination. Here, I’ll help you with why it was explosives…
The WTC’s fell at about 16 seconds. That is only 5 seconds longer than if you were to drop a brick from the top of the WTC’s. This is Impossible. The resistance of each floor would have added at least 1 second per floor for a collapse. So given that there were 100 floors this would mean that the towers should have fallen somewhere around 1 minute total.
The equation is H=(1/2)at2, where H is the height, a is the acceleration of gravity (10 meters per second squared) and t is time in seconds. Plug in the height of the building at 1350 feet (411 meters) and we get 9 seconds. That is just about the length of time it took for the very top of the World Trade Center to fall to the street below. According to all reports, the whole thing was over in just about ten to sixteen seconds. IMPOSSIBLE without assistance by explosives.
FILE NO 9110488
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
FIREFIGHTER TIMOTHY BURKE
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 22 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON
“THEN THE BUILDING POPPED LOWER THAN THE
FIRE WHICH LEARNED WAS GUESS THE AVIATION FUEL
FELL INTO THE PIT AND WHATEVER FLOOR IT FELL ON HEATED
UP REALLY BAD AND THATS WHY IT POPPED AT THAT FLOOR
THATS THE RUMOR HEARD BUT IT SEEMED LIKE WAS
GOING OH MY GOD THERE IS SECONDARY DEVICE BECAUSE
THE WAY THE BUILDING POPPED THOUGHT IT WAS AN
EXPLOSION.”
FILE NO 9110308
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
FIREFIGHTER GEORGE KOZLOWSKI
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 10 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON
“AS WE WERE WALKING WE
February 19th, 2006 at 11:41 amHEARD WE THOUGHT IT WAS ANOTHER PLANE COMING IT
WAS LIKE BIG SHHHHH THOUSAND TIMES LOUDER THAN
THAT IT SOUNDED LIKE MISSILE COMING AND WE JUST
STARTED BOOKING WE TOOK OFF LIKE BATS OUT OF HELL
WE MADE IT AROUND THE CORNER AND THATS WHEN
TH SHIT HIT TH FAN RIGHT TH AND TH
THAT LOUD AND THEN BA BOOM JUST IT WAS LIKE AN
EARTHQUAKE OR WHATEVER GIANT GIANT EXPLOSION”
Remove Bush, I BELIEVE YOU! These other sheep need to Wake the hell up and NOW! Before these lying,murdering aholes pull another 9-11 on U.S. and/or get us into more needless wars of agression that are NOT making us safer but are meant to suppress us here at home! How many more INNOCENT PEOPLE MUST THESE AHOLES KILL AT HOME(Katrina victims and 9-11 victims) or abroad before you MORONIC SHEEP WAKE THE HELL UP? THEY WERE BEHIND 9-11!
February 19th, 2006 at 11:49 amRemove Bush, Those of us who are GOOD Americans have to TRY to save America from these lying,murdering, fascist S.O.B’s who are literally destroying America from within! Along with help from ALL 3 branches of gov’t according to Sibel Edmonds! Do you know about her? We MUST try to get them arrested and NOW! Or at least try! There is enough evidence now to convict them, I believe PLUS we need to tell the sheep about him selling these ports to KNOWN terrorists! THAT SHOULD PROVE TO THESE SHEEP THAT HE/THEY ARE IN BED WITH THEM AND BEHIND 9-11! Also the fact that he INVITED a KNOWN terrorist to his state of union speech! Read this:
February 19th, 2006 at 12:11 pmFor some damn reason the link didn’t work so here it is hopefully again: http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0202-32.htm PLEASE SPREAD THIS INFO ASAP AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE TO ALL!
February 19th, 2006 at 12:12 pmSheep! I would bet EVERYTHING I OWN AND MY LIFE THAT THEY WERE BEHIND 9-11! They MUST be arrested and NOW! By U.S. troops and/or U.S. Marshall’s or a citizen’s arrest and NOW!
February 19th, 2006 at 12:14 pmA couple other things that I have read about the collapses include repors that seismographs monitored “events” seconds prior to the collapses that point to explosions going off. This jives with eyewitness accounts. Also, once they had determined what had happened, it was standard procedure for the air traffic controllers to make a record of everything that transpired up to the point of the attacks. Not long ago it was reported that the records were discovered missing. I do believe the reason was that they were “accidentally” destroyed.
Personally, I can respect boths sides of this issue — the so-called conspiracy theorists, and the non-theorists. However, as with the Cheney shooting incident, there are things that just do not add up.
February 19th, 2006 at 2:02 pmUnbelievable seems like a bright individual, but for what ever reason seems to be missing this important fact. Hell, even if people come forward, and they have, to say that the Bush admin caused 9/11 these people still would find a way to doubt it. Even many of the very first administration employees say that Bush and company were responsible for the events. So they are liers and are out for some personal gain.
Comment by RemoveBush — February 19, 2006 @ 12:04 pm
I’m not missing the point. I just don’t agree with it. But it sounds like that gets me labels a fascist (not by you RB). What is happening to the left when we can’t have a disagreement about a subject without name-calling and paranoia? Sorry, I don’t have blind faith in anything. Liberal theories included. If that makes me a fascist, then things in this country really are in trouble.
February 19th, 2006 at 2:57 pmunbelievable – you stil have not EXPLAINED how the building top at a 30 or 40 degree angle all of a sudden straightened out and fell straight down on its own footprint?
The rest of the building fell straight down, as its feet were anchored to the ground and its floors kept it up right – and its structure was falling internally. At that point, the top had made its impact and was merely along for the ride. Have you ever seen a building implode? When the thing collapses in upon itself? That was what was happening, because an interior structure was failing – not an exterior structure. It was caving in upon itself.
Also, the internal center of gravity of the top portion possibly kept the top from falling over. It’s structure was centrally located as well. Oddly, like a weeble…
February 19th, 2006 at 3:11 pmSheep! I would bet EVERYTHING I OWN AND MY LIFE THAT THEY WERE BEHIND 9-11!
Comment by Sue
It would seem obvious you don’t have much to lose.
February 19th, 2006 at 4:35 pmUnbelievable – that still does not explain the fact that the top part was at a 30 to 40 degree angle when the collapse started. Your logic is not making sense.
RB, no offense, but you don’t want it to… It does make sense to someone with 14 years of experience in the ‘building’ profession. And even my liberal architecture and engineering colleagues in San Francisco agreed. I used to work with people from some of the most prestigious universities in this country. They also believe that the buildings could collapse as they did from a result of their design and the circumstances. Explosives were not necessary to bring those buildings down.
Maybe our government was involved – but I don’t see it in the building collapse. That can all be explained logically, and has been, by independent structural engineers to my professional satisfaction.
I just think that it’s always good to debate a controversial idea among those on your side, before putting it out there for others. That was my point. Not to call you names. I’m tired of how much that goes on in here as it is.
February 19th, 2006 at 4:40 pm“RB, no offense, but you don’t want it to… ”
Actually I do, but the information that is being passed as logical is not logical. Even with this conversation, simple questions are not answered and are avoided and the issue is explained as “I don’t want it to make sense”.
Why is it that the Fire Department is on record as saying they heard Secondary Explossions? If they don’t know what secondary explossions are then I don’t know who does. There are sizmic reports that show there were explossions before the collapse of the towers.
There was a 70 ton hydrolic press that was litteraly thrown around in the basement by an explossion. There is several witnesses of an explossion just before the plane crash, which coinsides with the sizmic evidence. Have you really done any investigation into this???? You may have been in the “building” business for years, but when there are litterally HUNDRES of things that exist for evidence to the contrary, then you need to look at the facts.
So with this 30 to 40 degree angle, what you seem to be telling me is that it is much like a truck going 100 miles per hour and running through a building, but instead of coming out the other side, it comes out where it entered. This does not make very much sense now does it?????
Your pancaking theme does not add up either…. If the tower pancaked, then there would have been 50 or more stories of the CENTER core still standing. Since the floors were pancaking around the core, this only makes sense. What took down the center colums if the floors were pancaking around them as you seem to say happened. To me it’s like when I take off my pants at night. My legs remain standing, but the pants fold down around them.
Thanks for the discussion on this. I appreciate a different veiw on it. However, so far I’m not convinced by your explaination either. :)
February 19th, 2006 at 5:04 pmFirst, the towers did not fall on their own footprint. There were parts of the building that fell (not spilled) outside that footprint. My son worked at securing contaminates at the site after the collapse and has filled me in.
February 19th, 2006 at 5:18 pmSecond, the towers were built using extremely light construction techniques. Having fallen approximately 1/5 of a mile in seconds, the structure of the upper floors would have tended to right itself due to air resistance on the exposed surfaces.
I do not dispute the possibility of a conspiracy.
Building 7 is an enigma. The only logical reason that came down is that the city’s emergency response center was there – monitoring equipment up the kazoo.
unbelievable – here is a article you should look at. When you read it, please let me know what you disagree with and why.
http://www.st911.org/
Thanks RB.
February 19th, 2006 at 5:22 pm“Having fallen approximately 1/5 of a mile in seconds, the structure of the upper floors would have tended to right itself due to air resistance on the exposed surfaces.”
Hey WaltTheMan, thanks for the input… However, this defies Newtons 1st Law. How do you explain that???? Physics has been proven, and I tend to believe the math mor than someone simply telling me that “it would have tended to right itself”. It’s not a boat. I’m sure someone can claim the same thing applies here, but I would dissagree. If I stand on my roof with a pipe leaning at a 30 to 40 degree angle, that pipe is going to remain at that angle unless something opposes it and forces it to straighten out.
Sorry, but if you can explain to me how physics is defied on this day then I will agree that the buildings were not demolished. But given that ONLY the WTC buildings fell, I’m not likely to give.
February 19th, 2006 at 5:29 pm202 – RemoveBush,
February 19th, 2006 at 5:53 pmThe Bernoulli Principle says that a round object will not offer resistance to wind flow. Our ancestors discovered that even before Bernoulli. Try dropping an empty box tied to a counter weight.
By the bye, one of my degrees is in physics.
February 19th, 2006 at 5:56 pm#203- me,
February 19th, 2006 at 8:05 pmWent too fast on that one – I should have said “a circular object is not influenced by the flow of fluids around it”. Mental lapse from the fury of the moment. Full tummy restored reason.
This is certainly a subject for discussion. For those of us who are not engineers, but have learned to be skeptical, I find the discussion and explanations informative and fascinating. No certain answers, just differing theories based upon natural laws.
February 19th, 2006 at 8:06 pmIt would have been better had the admin been up front about so much from the start, but that is not their m.o.
They like to see us argue among ourselves.
Anyway, I have learned a lot here, and I want to thank all of you for your expertise — I am trying to keep an open mind, but I think I will die before knowing the truth.
#206 – Marie,
February 19th, 2006 at 8:51 pmScientists create ideas.
Engineers merge ideas.
Technicians build merges.
That’s the reason that I decided to get degrees in science(Physics), engineering (EE plus a minor in ME) and CompSci at the young age of 19. I would have bumped the ME up to a major, except the dean ruled that no student could take more than 24 hours in a single semester.
I pity the left. Plainly said, you are DUMB. You’re totally detached from reality and miss the mark almost every time. I am concerned about our future because Bush is far from perfect. But the terror sympos on the left are the real problem – if you weren’t so totally detached from reality, we might have an oppo party that can fight Bush on substance. Not hate and stupidity.
Comment by Rightly So…
This defies common sense…..unless the name would’ve been Wrongly So… Now please come back to your senses and start making sense,.. like this: “I pity the right. Plainly said, you are DUMB. You’re totally detached from reality and miss the mark almost every time. I am concerned about our future because Bush is far from adequate. These terror sympos on the right are the real problem – if they weren’t so totally detached from reality, we might have an oppo party that can fight Anti-American sentiments on substance. Not hate and stupidity.”
Open your f* eyes before Osama closes them for you. Your sorry ass would propably end up next to Bush anyway and it’s not what you want.
February 20th, 2006 at 7:11 am#197, Your wrong! They were behind and involved in 9-11! Get a clue, sheep! Those towers were dontonated! And NOW they are building 600 prisons to keep us dissentors in and possibly forced labor too! Wake up people! They were behind 9-11 and are in bed with the REAL terrorists! He even invited one of them to his State of Union speech! And where is all my other posts disappearing to? Come on people, I know your not that dare stupid! Bush has said our Constitution is a “Goddamn piece of paper!” He said he saw the first plane hit the towers when there is NO way he could have! THEY ARE IN BED WITH THE REAL TERRORISTS PEOPLE! GET A CLUE!
February 20th, 2006 at 9:18 amsimple questions are not answered and are avoided
I’ve answered all of your architecture related questions. All of them. I don’t understand what you don’t understand.
The collapse of the buildings do not indicate conspiracy to me. I’m sorry. I see a perfectly rational explanation for why they both fell in similar fashions after being hit by planes, and Occums’Razor – the most simple of explanations is most likely true – I tend to accept it. The collapse evaluations add up. No explosives were necessary. No signs of foul play aside from the play itself. Therefore, I do not think the actual collapse of the towers is conspired. Or is evidence in a conspiracy.
Maybe there’s conspiracy elsewhere. That, I do not know enough about to debate. You might be correct. I just don’t think Bill Clinton or George Bush would have supported such a plan. They might have had (have) their issues, but intentionally killing innocent American is not one of them that I can accept. I don’t see it. In fact, I see the opposite. But there are many others who would, and I don’t deny that. But, as I’ve said, I don’t know enough to debate it, and honestly, I am more concerned with learning about what I consider to be bigger issues. I understand your perspective. I’m sorry that I don’t share it. I don’t know what else there is to debate….
And Sue, I’ve stopped reading your posts. You might be right, but your bad manners assures that people will not listen to you. Is that what you want?
February 20th, 2006 at 1:12 pmUnbelievable – Actually you have not, but that’s OK. I doubt you will be able to fully.
Here are the areas that I am largely talking about that were not answered.
Hey Unbelievable, if you don’t believe that our government would concieve such a plane then you should review this document conceived by our government to insight the American public to allow the military to invade Cuba.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwood
Now if the government would do something like this back then, how difficult do you think it would be for them to do something very similar now?
Comment by RemoveBush
unbelievable – here is a article you should look at. When you read it, please let me know what you disagree with and why.
http://www.st911.org/
Thanks RB.
February 20th, 2006 at 1:38 pmUnbelievable – Too clarify:
“Actually you have not”, you have made statements, but no proof. I have provided links to data and provided formulas with the results calculated. You have only stated that this could happen.
This is why I say no you have not. If you are in the technical field, then you know that this is clearly unacceptable for evidence. If you can provide data and proof to your claim, I’m more apt to believe it. However, there has been no proof.
I have provided link after link with people, directly involved with the towers, who state the contrary. Where is the evidence of other buildings having suffered similar fates?
I look forward to your answer.
February 20th, 2006 at 1:45 pmI see the link is not actually correct.
Try these 2.
http://911review.com/articles/griffin/nyc1.html
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
February 20th, 2006 at 2:17 pmunbelievable – heres more scientific evidence for you to review.
Enjoy!
http:[//]janedoe0911.tripod.com[/]BilliardBalls.html
remove [] from line. Caught by spam
February 20th, 2006 at 3:01 pmRemove Bush,
I did give proof. Look at the link in my first post. I’m not going to type a dissertation here on the fundamentals of structural analysis. There’s a reason it took me five years of college to understand the basics, and then practical experience beyond that. And I would think I wouldn’t have to for someone with an engineering background.
February 20th, 2006 at 4:02 pm““Think of the impact of dropping a 25-story building straight down,†Hamburger told the audience. “It was like a pile driver, which is why it collapsed as it did.â€
http://news-service.stanford.edu/ news/ 2001/ december5/ wtc-125.html ”
You mean this link, which provides absolutely no EVIDENCE to your claim.
“And I would think I wouldn’t have to for someone with an engineering background.”
I’m sorry that I’m beneith you. Forgive me your hiness.
Since your obviously just talking crap, I can see that I won’t get any FACTS from you. It’s a little bizzare though that “someone with an engineering background” can provide evidence to support their claims, but someone who is suppose to be of a higher education can only belittle the other person.
Now I can see why I have never gotten any FACTS from you, I’m just a peeon.
See Ya!
February 20th, 2006 at 4:25 pmYou mean this link, which provides absolutely no EVIDENCE to your claim.
You’re the one who made the claim. You’re the one who has to prove it.
The link I gave was an analysis of the tower collapse. It is valid. Even if you don’t understand it. Go swing a sledge hammer at something fixed and on fire, and then maybe it will make sense… since that’s really the crux of the theory. Fire and force collapsed the tower. I don’t know how much simplier to make it. Or why you don’t understand that those ARE facts.
“And I would think I wouldn’t have to for someone with an engineering background.â€
I’m sorry that I’m beneith you. Forgive me your hiness.
I could tell it was eating at you that I couldn’t be convinced. And it probably didn’t help that Walt added explanation to support what I’ve been saying. You really shouldn’t take this personally. It’s not personal.
Since your obviously just talking crap, I can see that I won’t get any FACTS from you. It’s a little bizzare though that “someone with an engineering background†can provide evidence to support their claims, but someone who is suppose to be of a higher education can only belittle the other person.
I don’t understand what you want. I have given facts. Basic gravity, load force, and statics. Is that not factual enough? Then I have no idea what is.
I didn’t belittle you. If anything, you refuse to accept my professional opinion and have been attempting to convince me that you are right, by belittling my intelligence. Not the other way around
Now I can see why I have never gotten any FACTS from you, I’m just a peeon.
See Ya!
Comment by RemoveBush — February 20, 2006 @ 4:25 pm
Well, so much for anyone ever thinking you’re a conspiracy nut… Yep, you just avoided that stigma.
Good luck.
February 20th, 2006 at 6:40 pmListen here you egotistical ass.
First, “You’re the one who made the claim. You’re the one who has to prove it.” I have provided at least 15 links with data and information. You have provided 4 (FOUR) links that provides little if any information as far as data or FACTS.
Second, “Fire and force collapsed the tower. I don’t know how much simplier to make it. Or why you don’t understand that those ARE facts.” Obviously, they ARE NOT FACTS! They are a theory. I guess your extrodinary education does not explain to you the difference. A fact is something that is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, a theory is an idea which is to be proven.
Third, “I could tell it was eating at you that I couldn’t be convinced. And it probably didn’t help that Walt added explanation to support what I’ve been saying. You really shouldn’t take this personally. It’s not personal.” I was not taking anything personnal until you tried to act like you were something big and great. The only thing that was eating me is the FACT that you FAIL to provide ANY supporting DATA. If you are from a Technical feild, which I seriously doubt after these conversations, then you would have supported your educated claims.
Fourth, I don’t understand what you want. I have given facts. Basic gravity, load force, and statics. Is that not factual enough? Then I have no idea what is.” How about some supporting EVIDENCE? How about a debate and looking at the complete information and not just what you consider relavant. Here are the posts which I provided supporting data, did you even bother to look at the links, or is your over sized head to educated to hold a debate regarding this data?
126, 127, 128, 150, 160, 161, 163, 164, 165, 166, 179, 181, 187, 212, 214, 215.
Here is your links:
144, 156, 157, 159
If you would have even bothered to have read any of my links, I am sure this would have lead to more indepth conversations, but your just one of those “I know everything so no need to listen” jerks.
Fifth, “I didn’t belittle you. If anything, you refuse to accept my professional opinion and have been attempting to convince me that you are right, by belittling my intelligence. Not the other way around” Sure you did “And I would think I wouldn’t have to for someone with an engineering background“. This is a discussion, at least I thought it was, where supporting information is presented and discussed. If you were as smart as you say that you are, you would have known that though. So I guess that by providing evidence and data from a different point of view is belittling???? Along with this “Well, so much for anyone ever thinking you’re a conspiracy nut… Yep, you just avoided that stigma.” This little comment you cleary show that you are someone who thinks that your much better than anyone else. I have simply asked for you to provide supporting data to your claims. Just giving me some links that talks about steel and single guy who makes a statement about the towers is GODS Word. Sorry, but Science is based on EVIDENCE. YOU HAVE FAILED TO SHOW ANY, that supports your claim. I provided refuting data to your claims YET YOU CANNOT COMMENT BECAUSE YOU DON’T HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE TO DO SO. Your just saying something does not make it so. I could have said that I have a BS, Masters, and a PHD in Electronic Engineering. How are you to know????? Because I am an HONEST person and enjoy debate, I provide information that you feel is irrelavant without having even looked at a single piece.
If you are a teacher, and I seriously doubt it, I feel sorry for any person that you teach with your closed mind. I bet that if one of your students solves a problem that is not the way you showed them then you mark the answer as being wrong.
February 20th, 2006 at 7:47 pmIf you are a teacher, and I seriously doubt it, I feel sorry for any person that you teach with your closed mind. I bet that if one of your students solves a problem that is not the way you showed them then you mark the answer as being wrong.
Comment by RemoveBush — February 20, 2006 @ 7:47 pm
My students get principals more complicated than you. And they are teenagers.
The reality is that anyone making a proposition has to prove it. Not the other way around. You are the one with the burden of proof. Not me – since I can’t prove a negative.
If anyone’s career is in question it is yours. No way you are an engineer if you don’t understand gravity and Statics. As they ARE facts that explain the tower collapse.
Just keep on proving that you’re not a conspiracy nut with these kinds of angry rants.
Take care.
February 20th, 2006 at 8:02 pmHey bozo, I have provided you with Newtons Law. Yet you don’t seem to even understand that simple little well know physic principle.
“The reality is that anyone making a proposition has to prove it. Not the other way around. You are the one with the burden of proof. Not me – since I can’t prove a negative.”
This just shows how MORONIC you really are……. I provided countless peices of proof, yet your ignoramous one thought peanut brain just can’t seem to grasp that.
Since you are placing this in a rule of law principal, let me just explain this too you since you don’t seem to understand the very principal you are trying to enact.
First, when someone presents EVIDENCE to the issue it is the other persons place to COUNTER that evidence. I have stated and demonstrated in my many posts this very thing. You on the other hand simple want to pretend that your something that you are not. Rather than debating you resort to condecending statements, and this is why we are in this tone of discussion.
I doubt you have an incling of college schooling to be a teacher and I don’t see you having the experience beyond being a dishwasher. You have no concept of what a debate is and what EVIDENCE is.
I have provided you with plenty of evidence. Much like you stated “I’m not going to type a dissertation here on the fundamentals of” physics here. I provided you with the information that disputs your claim agianst my claim. Your irrational idea that I need to spoon feed you, when your suppose to be some great expert on the subject, is rather mundain.
If this is the kind of thing you teach your kids, don’t read the rebutle information provided and just ignore other evidence, then I feel sorry for anyone who you teach (if you teach)! Your so ignorant that you can’t even be presented with information and digest it to discuss the reasons why the information presented may or maynot be accurate.
GEEZE, I’m beginning to believe that GW is brighter than you.
February 20th, 2006 at 9:25 pm#220 -RemoveBush,
February 20th, 2006 at 10:07 pmNewton had only one law? Are you referring to figs or is there a dumber Newton than Sir Isaac? My conic equations are waiting. Ignorance is no defense in the eye of the law. I would not like to see the progressive mass sink to such moral depravity.
Hey Walt – did you say that you had a Physics Degree????
Newton has 3 laws.
I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.
II. The relationship between an object’s mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors (as indicated by their symbols being displayed in slant bold font); in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector.
III. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
February 20th, 2006 at 10:12 pm#222 – RemoveBush,
February 20th, 2006 at 10:23 pmThat was exactly my point. I saw no ’s’ in post 220. And yes I have degrees in Physics, Engineering and CompSci.
b y the bye, I am a liberal. Just try to be fair in all exchanges.
February 20th, 2006 at 10:29 pmThe reference was from previous posts when I asked about Netons Law and received no objection to any of the laws or dispute of any of them. This was my point in the statement in #220.
Unbelievable states that he has 12 years in Architecture and is a teacher but cannot provide any resonable debate with the evidence I gave, when I countered his evidence.
“Ignorance is no defense in the eye of the law” this is exactly my point with unbelievable. He has suggested that I need to spoon feed him information when I have provided more than 15 links to data and information that he has yet to look at or comment on. Yet he can say things like “No way you are an engineer if you don’t understand gravity and Statics. As they ARE facts that explain the tower collapse.” yet when I provide data, which he has not, I’m the incomprehensible person.
February 20th, 2006 at 10:32 pmUnbelievable states that he has 12 years in Architecture and is a teacher but cannot provide any resonable debate with the evidence I gave, when I countered his evidence.
I’m a she, it’s 14 years, and I gave a very credible explanation, that architects and engineers from Harvard and Yale agree with. And the initial link I gave was from Stanford. A very liberal think tank.
You bombarded me with a lot of stuff that wasn’t even your own thoughts. So, if anyone wasn’t providing debate, it was you. I’m not really inclined to keep repeating myself. What I said was sufficient. I can’t help it if you don’t understand.
February 21st, 2006 at 1:00 pmBLAHH BLAHH BLAHHH! So by your mindset, a lawyer trying a case of murder is suppose to define the ME’s notes and define and express them as they are their own.
Boy your not a very bright girl are you?
“and I gave a very credible explanation, that architects and engineers from Harvard and Yale agree with. And the initial link I gave was from Stanford. A very liberal think tank.”
And I read every one of yours! How many of the links did you read of mine?
Yeah and I countered that with evidence to contradict yours, yet your so high and mighty that you reject my evidence without even reading one of them and offering debate over why the information is not correct. This is a sure sine of a person with 14 years in the field and is suppose to be a teacher. Not very convincing is it?
“You bombarded me with a lot of stuff that wasn’t even your own thoughts”
So if someone presents evidence to contradict your claims, then it’s not worth your time to even read it? Yeah, your a real open minded and really intelligent person.
I now take back what I said “I’m beginning to believe that GW is brighter than you.” I’m now 100% convinced. At least the Bush administration presents counter evidence to their claims when someone provides evidence against them, no matter how rediculous it may be.
You should apply for a position in the WH, you are just the right type of person to work for old Bush. One that never reads the other persons information and tries to make claims that it’s all their fault.
February 21st, 2006 at 1:41 pmSince you don’t have any thoughts of your own as well, as everything you presented were from other people here is some of the data which was in those links (if you would have taken the time to read, but that is so difficult for a person of your calibur).
February 21st, 2006 at 1:49 pm
February 21st, 2006 at 1:49 pmAnother image
February 21st, 2006 at 1:50 pmImage 2 again
February 21st, 2006 at 1:51 pmImage 3
February 21st, 2006 at 1:52 pmImage 4
February 21st, 2006 at 1:54 pmNo Prior Collapse Induced by Fire
The official theory is rendered implausible by two major problems. The first is the simple fact that fire has never—prior to or after 9/11—caused steel-frame high-rise buildings to collapse. Defenders of the official story seldom if ever mention this simple fact. Indeed, the supposedly definitive report put out by NIST—the National Institute for Standards and Technology (2005)—even implies that fire-induced collapses of large steel-frame buildings are normal events (Hoffman, 2005).[4] Far from being normal, however, such collapses have never occurred, except for the alleged cases of 9/11.
Defenders of the official theory, of course, say that the collapses were caused not simply by the fire but the fire combined with the damage caused by the airliners. The towers, however, were designed to withstand the impact of airliners about the same size as Boeing 767s.[5] Hyman Brown, the construction manager of the Twin Towers, said: “They were over-designed to withstand almost anything, including hurricanes, . . . bombings and an airplane hitting [them]†(Bollyn, 2001). And even Thomas Eagar, an MIT professor of materials engineering who supports the official theory, says that the impact of the airplanes would not have been significant, because “the number of columns lost on the initial impact was not large and the loads were shifted to remaining columns in this highly redundant structure†(Eagar and Musso, 2001, pp. 8-11). Likewise, the NIST Report, in discussing how the impact of the planes contributed to the collapse, focuses primarily on the claim that the planes dislodged a lot of the fire-proofing from the steel.[6]
The official theory of the collapse, therefore, is essentially a fire theory, so it cannot be emphasized too much that fire has never caused large steel-frame buildings to collapse—never, whether before 9/11, or after 9/11, or anywhere in the world on 9/11 except allegedly New York City—never.
One might say, of course, that there is a first time for everything, and that a truly extraordinary fire might induce a collapse. Let us examine this idea. What would count as an extraordinary fire? Given the properties of steel, a fire would need to be very hot, very big, and very long-lasting. But the fires in the towers did not have even one of these characteristics, let alone all three.
There have been claims, to be sure, that the fires were very hot. Some television specials claimed that the towers collapsed because the fire was hot enough to melt the steel. For example, an early BBC News special quoted Hyman Brown as saying: “steel melts, and 24,000 gallons of aviation fluid melted the steel.†Another man, presented as a structural engineer, said: “It was the fire that killed the buildings. There’s nothing on earth that could survive those temperatures with that amount of fuel burning. . . . The columns would have melted†(Barter, 2001).[7]
These claims, however, are absurd. Steel does not even begin to melt until it reaches almost 2800° Fahrenheit.[8] And yet open fires fueled by hydrocarbons, such as kerosene—which is what jet fuel is—can at most rise to 1700°F, which is almost 1100 degrees below the melting point of steel.[9] We can, accordingly, dismiss the claim that the towers collapsed because their steel columns melted.[10]
Most defenders of the official theory, in fact, do not make this absurd claim. They say merely that the fire heated the steel up to the point where it lost so much of its strength that it buckled.[11] For example, Thomas Eagar, saying that steel loses 80 percent of its strength when it is heated to 1,300ËšF, argues that this is what happened. But for even this claim to plausible, the fires would have still had to be pretty hot.
But they were not. Claims have been made, as we have seen, about the jet fuel. But much of it burned up very quickly in the enormous fireballs produced when the planes hit the buildings, and rest was gone within 10 minutes,[12] after which the flames died down. Photographs of the towers 15 minutes after they were struck show few flames and lots of black smoke, a sign that the fires were oxygen-starved. Thomas Eagar, recognizing this fact, says that the fires were “probably only about 1,200 or 1,300˚F†(Eagar, 2002).
There are reasons to believe, moreover, that the fires were not even that hot. As photographs show, the fires did not break windows or even spread much beyond their points of origin (Hufschmid, 2002, p. 40). This photographic evidence is supported by scientific studies carried out by NIST, which found that of the 16 perimeter columns examined, “only three columns had evidence that the steel reached temperatures above 250˚C [482˚F],†and no evidence that any of the core columns had reached even those temperatures (2005, p. 88).
NIST (2005) says that it “did not generalize these results, since the examined columns represented only 3 percent of the perimeter columns and 1 percent of the core columns from the fire floorsâ€. That only such a tiny percent of the columns was available was due, of course, to the fact that government officials had most of the steel immediately sold and shipped off. In any case, NIST’s findings on the basis of this tiny percent of the columns are not irrelevant: They mean that any speculations that some of the core columns reached much higher temperatures would be just that—pure speculation not backed up by any empirical evidence.
Moreover, even if the fire had reached 1,300ËšF, as Eagar supposes, that does not mean that any of the steel would have reached that temperature. Steel is an excellent conductor of heat. Put a fire to one part of a long bar of steel and the heat will quickly diffuse to the other parts and to any other pieces of steel to which that bar is connected.[13]
For fires to have heated up some of the steel columns to anywhere close to their own temperature, they would have needed to be very big, relative to the size of the buildings and the amount of steel in them. The towers, of course, were huge and had an enormous amount of steel. A small, localized fire of 1,300ËšF would never have heated any of the steel columns even close to that temperature, because the heat would have been quickly dispersed throughout the building.
Some defenders of the official story have claimed that the fires were indeed very big, turning the buildings into “towering infernos.†But all the evidence counts against this claim, especially with regard to the south tower, which collapsed first. This tower was struck between floors 78 and 84, so that region is where the fire would have been the biggest. And yet Brian Clark, a survivor, said that when he got down to the 80th floor: “You could see through the wall and the cracks and see flames . . . just licking up, not a roaring inferno, just quiet flames licking up and smoke sort of eking through the wall.”[14] Likewise, one of the fire chiefs who had reached the 78th floor found only “two isolated pockets of fire.â€[15]
The north tower, to be sure, did have fires that were big enough and hot enough to cause many people to jump to their deaths. But as anyone with a fireplace grate or a pot-belly stove knows, fire that will not harm steel or even iron will burn human flesh. Also in many cases it may have been more the smoke than the heat that led people to jump.
In any case, the fires, to weaken the steel columns, would have needed to be not only very big and very hot but also very long-lasting.[16] The public was told that the towers had such fires, with CNN saying that “very intense†fires “burned for a long time.â€[17] But they did not. The north tower collapsed an hour and 42 minutes after it was struck; the south tower collapsed after only 56 minutes.
To see how ludicrous is the claim that the short-lived fires in the towers could have induced structural collapse, we can compare them with some other fires. In 1988, a fire in the First Interstate Bank Building in Los Angeles raged for 3.5 hours and gutted 5 of this building’s 62 floors, but there was no significant structural damage (FEMA, 1988). In 1991, a huge fire in Philadelphia’s One Meridian Plaza lasted for 18 hours and gutted 8 of the building’s 38 floors, but, said the FEMA report, although “[b]eams and girders sagged and twisted . . . under severe fire exposures. . . , the columns continued to support their loads without obvious damage†(FEMA, 1991). In Caracas in 2004, a fire in a 50-story building raged for 17 hours, completely gutting the building’s top 20 floors, and yet it did not collapse (Nieto, 2004). And yet we are supposed to believe that a 56-minute fire caused the south tower to collapse.
Much more information that is much more in detail than ANY OF THE ARTICLES YOU PROVIDED, should you even consider reading.
http://911review.com/articles/griffin/nyc1.html
February 21st, 2006 at 2:08 pmSince you don’t have any thoughts of your own as well, as everything you presented were from other people here is some of the data which was in those links (if you would have taken the time to read, but that is so difficult for a person of your calibur).
Grow up. I have a full-time job that is more important than writing a dissertation on a subject I have little interest in any longer. Especially when I’ve seen very little information that validates your claim.
Most people think guys like you are conspiracy nuts, and dismiss you as such because all of your lengthy theories hide your lack of understanding of basic applied science. You should start with reality. It seems to be the one most lacking. Then try gravity, statics and applied (not theoretical as you are suggesting) physics. Because your theories are lacking any dose of reality whatsoever.
And after the way you’ve behaved here, it’s no surprise that no one is listening to you. Seek psychiatric assistance. Meds may be in order, Chicken Little.
February 24th, 2006 at 12:43 pm