George Will: “This Is A Civil War”
Conservative columnist George Will this morning on ABC’s This Week:
STEPHANOPOULOS: What does civil war look like?
WILL: This. This is a civil war.
Later, Will even questioned whether Iraq can truly be said to have a government:
Now, does Iraq have a government? Let me just postulate the question. A government exists when it has a reasonable monopoly on the legitimate use of violence. As long as the militias are out there, the existence of an Iraqi government is questionable. Think of Los Angeles. If Los Angeles said the Bloods and the Crips are going to be tolerated, they’re going to be armed and police their areas and enforce the law in certain areas, what sense would Los Angeles have of government?
Full transcript below:
ZAKARIA: It was a very bad week for iraq. The fundamental problem here remains the original one, which is when people don’t have a sense of security because there were not enough American troops, they will revert to their script, their tribal loyalty, the Sunni and Shiite. This happens in every society. That is what is happening, a pervasive sense of insecurity has made them search for security in the things they can find, which is their sectarian identities. But the fact that a few hundred people died — and it is a terrible tragedy — it does not necessarily mean we’re on the brink of civil war. India goes through sectarian violence from time to time. Nigeria does —
STEPHANOPOULOS: What does civil war look like?
WILL: This. This is a civil war.
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Yes Iraq has degenerated into a Civil War and Bush is responsible for causing it too! At least George Will notices!
February 26th, 2006 at 11:48 amFirst Bill O’Reilly, then William Bennett and now George Will. Why do Republicans hate America?
February 26th, 2006 at 11:50 amWhoa. When the Sheehan stuff was in the news a lot, I remember him blasting Democrats for being so negative about progress in Iraq, such pessimists. Oh well, apparently even Georgy Boy can see the light sometimes.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:56 amQuick, draw up the treason charges against George WIll, Bill Buckley and Francis Fuckyomama!
-GSD
February 26th, 2006 at 12:01 pmGeorge Will should stick to baseball. It took him 3 years to get to this point. If only 50 people had died,would he have said the same thing?
February 26th, 2006 at 12:06 pmLOL so now the Bush lovers are attacking George Will for noticing the obvious that Civil War has started in Iraq!
February 26th, 2006 at 12:08 pmANOTHER FACIST!!
February 26th, 2006 at 12:10 pmGeorge Will, as an old fashioned conservative rather than a neocon, has been skeptical of the war for a long time but it sounds as if he is becoming more pointed in his criticism.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:21 pmTHE PUBLIC DISCOURSE on the matter of the U.S. occupation of Iraq requires more specifics, and not more generizations.
So Iraq is in the throes of a ‘Civil War’ (as opposed to being in the throes of ‘Anarchy’ and ‘public violence for the purpose of destabilizing whatever government there is’)?
Fine.
But if this is to become the latest administration talking point to describe the situation in Iraq (which it seems to be, and for the purpose of justifying a continued U.S. Military presence there, on the side of ‘The Good Guys’), if so, then be more specific than just characterizing it as ‘Civil War’…
Who are the factions that are fighting, and what are their political objectives?
(You know, like the American Civil War: Southern States fighting for ’states rights’, in particular the continued legality of ’slave labor’, versus Northern States fighting against secession, for Union, and for the Federal mandate of Emancipation; you know, define a ‘Civil War’ like that.)
Otherwise, this administration just advances yet again another in an endless stream of talking points: ‘Civil War’ in Iraq…
Which does nothing to specifically define the screwed-up situation there (which seems nothing but ‘Anarchy’ to me)…
A talking point so vague as to perhaps serve to justify our Military’s continued presence in Iraq, on the side of ‘The Good Guys’.
(Vietnam, redux.)
February 26th, 2006 at 12:27 pmAt least President Bush tasked someone - his wife Laura - to help stop the fighting between the Bloods and the Cripps.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:36 pmThe Sunnis were in power during Saddam’s reign and are now the minority. They want the power back.
The Shia were mistreated under Saddam and never want the Sunnis back in power.
Seems simple to me. But then I called this civil war loooooooong ago.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:40 pmAt least President Bush tasked someone - his wife Laura - to help stop the fighting between the Bloods and the Cripps.
Comment by AvengingAngel — February 26, 2006 @ 12:36 pm
‘Cause she knows so much about street gangs, right? When a rational person would have kept Stanley Williams alive and used his insight into solving the problem (which essentially is a result of children seeking love and family because they are not getting it at home).
This will be another disaster in the making…
February 26th, 2006 at 12:41 pmPosted before…but the Golden Dome has bursted for Bushco.
As someone else has stated…the rethugs are starting to cannabalize themselves.
I can only hope that this is what the dems have been waiting for. (Doubt it though- Karls got too much poop on most of them…but then again…as John Q wakes up…the little poop on dems won’t even smell compared to the pile of $hit left by the “right”.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:42 pmbut then again…as John Q wakes up…the little poop on dems won’t even smell compared to the pile of $hit left by the “rightâ€.
Comment by WiscoDuk — February 26, 2006 @ 12:42 pm
Sad that it’s come to this - especially in our so-called ‘leadership’ - that perspective of choosing between the lesser of two evils…
February 26th, 2006 at 12:45 pmTime to pull all Us troops out of iraq. Return and mop up after the civil war is over, if ever. Iraqis have been fighting among themselves for centuries,why should anything be different now?
February 26th, 2006 at 12:46 pmThe Presidents brilliant plan of spreading Democracy is on a faster pace than I could have imagined.
It took America 90 years to progress to civil war, where Iraq has taken only 3 years. At this pace Iraq will be invading and occupying other sovereign countries, and spreading democracy faster than America. Pure genius I tell ya…
February 26th, 2006 at 12:48 pm#12, so what does the U.S. Military have to do with that?
Are they there to fight the ‘Sunnis’ on behalf of the ‘Shia’, or to fight the ‘Shia’ on behalf of the ‘Sunnis’?
Or are they there to fight both for control of Iraq?
Or perhaps to fight neither, but to referee?
If someone’s going to characterize this mess as a ‘Civil War’, they should be able to define the U.S. Military’s place in it; that is, for the purpose of justifying a continued U.S. Military presence in Iraq, which is what the ‘Civil War’ talking point is meant to do.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:59 pmPost 18 there is NO justification for our troops to remain in Iraq! George Will is trying to say since it’s a Civil War, we are just caught in the middle, so best to leave! But yes some Bush apologists will say the Civil War means we have to stay to take sides with one group! Kinda odd because the Sunni hate us and the Shia are allied with Iran who hate us, so I guess that leaves the Kurds who need us? Best just to pull out and let the Iraqis sort out their problems!
February 26th, 2006 at 1:10 pmThe shaping of public opinion: remember, not that long ago, Fox News asked: Iraq civil war, could it be a good thing?
Trying to look at it from a Crusades point of view, Muslims killing Muslims is a good thing!
I am sure there are people who are thinking along these lines. Remember Bush after 9/11 talking about a Crusade?
So, first a Civil War in Iraq is described as a good thing, then we observe that Iraq is in a Civil War, which is a good thing.
Do you notice how every wretched turn of events is described as good?
Recommended reading: The Prince by Machiavelli. I believe Mr. Rove has this little tome memorized.
Somewhere today another mother will be told her son or daughter has died in this “good thing.”
February 26th, 2006 at 1:14 pm#19, Did George Will really say the U.S. should leave Iraq?
I didn’t see his appearance, but only read the partial transcript above.
I’d be surprised (but pleased) if he said that.
Surprised, because it’s the exact opposite of what this ‘Civil War’ talking point is meant to advance: an opinion that the U.S. Military should remain in Iraq, on the side of the ‘Good Guys’.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:15 pmJay,
Best would be to get a United Nations peacekeeping force in there ASAP. Too bad our Ambassador to the UN is Bolton, who has dismissed the organization as irrelevant unless it fills America’s needs.
The UN got it right on WMD. America got it wrong. America wants to ‘reform’ the UN.
So, a UN peacekeeping force is not going to happen as long as America ’stays the course.’
And a lame-duck Congress will reinstate the Draft.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:21 pmpretend lets say China invaded America and was assembling an American peoples army and the republicans supporters thought great lets join and the democrate supporters became the insurgency
next would be a civil war ….But the answer would be Remove the Chinese Invaders …Then things would be back to normal and things go great for years to come and everythings rosy …Then up pops another Bush in future…Thats why you have a constitution written …your great leaders of the past and many european philosophers safegaurded your future from rogue Goverments
Also why we have human rights and also abolision of the death penalty so as not to be used by rogue goverments
I rest my case
February 26th, 2006 at 1:23 pmNews Items: Iraq’s defense minister warned on Saturday of a “civil war” that “will never end.”
Krepinevich: “Behind closed doors, he can say that if there is a civil war, because of our military power we can decide who comes out on top.”
Wilkerson: “Emergency powers would be granted to a political leader, much as they would be in any threatened democracy. Allawi could be a potential candidate. . . After a year you might see the political apparatus around him disappearing and he’s there for life.”
Allawi is our man, always has been since Chalabi was discredited. He is the one that we want to head the government. This crisis is an opportunity for us to get what we want.
So: What military unit, highly trained in explosives and able to move freely in Samarrea, blew up the mosque and caused this crisis?
February 26th, 2006 at 1:28 pmthe people there will NEVER stop fighting over religion. all wars are over religion. My god tell says it’s OK to kill you, and your gods say it’s ok to kill me, over and over till the end of time. Where does peace come from?…when religion is kept under control by goverments ‘of and by the people’.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:31 pmInteresting definition of government by Will: “A government exists when it has a reasonable monopoly on the legitimate use of violence.”
February 26th, 2006 at 1:32 pmPosts 21 and 22 > Bush and his OIL cronies do not want to withdraw now that they control the petroleum of Iraq, so any excuse to remain is spoon fed to the TV press! George Will is trying to say Iraq is hopeless so let’s leave, but I am sure that his words are being twisted to imply otherwise! Kristol on another TP thread wants our troops to take sides in the Civil War and use it as an excuse to remain! I do wish the UN or the Arab League would take over peacekeeping in Iraq, but Bush would never give up the OIL!
February 26th, 2006 at 1:32 pmNew FR memes for future reference:
1. Iraq and Palestine aren’t really “democracies” — they merely had popular elections. Thus, the Bush Doctrine has not in fact “failed” — ipso facto, QED.
2. George will a) was never a conservative or b) has revealed himself to be a “lapsed” conservative who — by virtue of being an MSM journalist — has allowed himself to succumb to the temptations of money and celebrity, and quite possibly to the lure of a leftist/Marxist/syndicalist “paradise.”
Remember: This is not a civil war. Iraq is not a democracy. George Will does not speak for conservatives. These aren’t the ‘droids you’re looking for.
Move along.
PS: I will happily stipulate that what we have in Iraq is either “anarchy” or a “12-way clusterf*ck of Biblical proportions,” rather than a Civil War. If that helps.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:36 pmthe people there will NEVER stop fighting over religion. all wars are over religion.
Comment by wisedup — February 26, 2006 @ 1:31 pm
No war has ever been declared in the name of Atheism… yet the non-religious are repeatedly slandered by the religious zealots for the immorality. Oragnized religion is a whole lot of hypocrisy and little else.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:39 pmTo follow-up on Don’s (post 24) comments, here’s the article from Timesonline (UK) http://www.timesonline.co.uk/ article/ 0,,2089-2058790,00.html
Perhaps the US is preparing to put Iyad Allawi in as “strongman.” It was also odd that Allawi would say, “we can only pray that nothing else like this or even the assassination of a prominent religious leader takes place.” Is that a warning to Sistani to go along with the strongman plan?
February 26th, 2006 at 1:42 pmWhen George Will, Bill Kristol and Bill Buckley start rambling on like this, how long can it be before Coke realizes that their new vanilla-flavored variety really does suck?
http://www.hairytruth.blogspot.com
February 26th, 2006 at 1:55 pmHere’s video of that- on CanOFun
February 26th, 2006 at 2:02 pmSpeaking of Coke, what is the controversial secret ingredient of Coca-Cola?
http://www.periodico26.cu/ english/ features/ coca011706.htm
February 26th, 2006 at 2:06 pmPost 33 Coca leaf extract > a diluted form of cocaine, but in American Coca Cola now it is just a trace in the drink!
February 26th, 2006 at 2:09 pmInteresting definition of government by Will: “A government exists when it has a reasonable monopoly on the legitimate use of violence.â€
Comment by beep52 — February 26, 2006 @ 1:32 pm
That’s a pretty standard political-science definition. If the state can’t suppress the use of force by non-state actors, then there is effectively no state at all. If the state can’t enforce its own laws, by force if necessary, then there are no laws.
February 26th, 2006 at 2:10 pmZalmay Khalilzad, the US ambassador, who had been criticised by Shia leaders this week for pushing to have Sunnis brought into government, said a unity government would help to avert the recently heightened risk of civil war.
So what military unit, highly trained in explosives and able to move freely in Samarra, blew up the mosque?
February 26th, 2006 at 2:20 pmAbsolutely nothing. That is why we need to get hell out of there.
February 26th, 2006 at 2:25 pmSometimes you need a “Civil” war to get rid of the vermin. But make no mistake, the only ones fulmenting Civil War are the evil “AlQaeda in Iraq” thug-leader, Zarqawi and the barbarian mullahs in Iran. Many Sunni’s know that engaging in a Civil War while comprising only 20% of the population is a form of mass suicide
February 26th, 2006 at 2:58 pmBush has placed our soldiers in an untenable situation. He was warned by many experts (on Iraq, on history, on warfare) that his plan was probably going to fail, but he ignored them. G. Will was among the first in line to decry the naysayers. For three years he has been highly critical of the opposition to the war. Recall only as recently as last summer when Sheehan was vilified for taking a stand. Now that many believe a civil war has begun (is there an official “opening day” for civil war?) Will has changed his tune a bit and admits so. I am glad to see that a Bush lover can see the facts and change his mind, but
February 26th, 2006 at 3:24 pmI think Will should return to writing columns about baseball, about which he has greater credibility.
Are we really sure that even was George Will on This Week? What happened to his bow tie?
February 26th, 2006 at 4:14 pm#39 There seems a consensus opinion around here that the recent comments of Kristol, Will, et al, characterizing the situation in Iraq as a ‘Civil War’, is in some way a withdrawal of support for the administration’s scheme in Iraq.
It is not. It is just a re-characterization of the mission (the scheme): No longer the facing down of a WMD threat, no longer the building of a ‘Democracy’, it’s now a ‘Civil War’ for the U.S. People (and their Military) to take sides in (Vietnam, redux).
That’s what the ‘Civil War’ talking point is all about.
And W.F. Buckley’s editorial is emblematic of this misunderstanding: People interpreted it as a call to leave Iraq. It was not. Instead, he merely pointed out that all the methods so far employed were a failure (he said the ‘postulates’ used to justify invasion all proved false).
It was not a call to leave Iraq; it was instead a call for better reasons (better ‘postulates’) for being there.
Like ‘Civil War’.
And as soon as Kristol, Will, the administration, et al, tell the People who are the ‘Good guys’ in this ‘Civil War’, then you’ll have it:
The justification for a continued U.S. Military presence in Iraq: To fight on the side of the ‘Good Guy’.
That’s W.F. Buckley’s better ‘postulate’.
February 26th, 2006 at 4:16 pmhttp://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/070105rokke.htm
just an interesting piece.
February 26th, 2006 at 4:37 pmLets see Murta stated we had about six nmore months, about ………oh about six months ago? How about a little plate of crow to the neo-cons and the GOP
February 26th, 2006 at 4:38 pm#41 Dem02020
February 26th, 2006 at 4:49 pmInteresting comments — you have given me pause to think further about their comments and I agree you make a good argument. Having memories of the swful Viet Nam years, I think I see the redux you posit.
The Mosque in Samaraa is a sort of new Gulf of Tonkin and we will be in the civil war helping one side fight the other — the domino theory against the oil.
If any part of that theory is indeed the truth, we can only hope that the public will not fall for it. And if the past 5 years are any indication, I am not hopeful.
#38
Kudos for coming up with the dynamite neologism, “fulmenting.”
February 26th, 2006 at 5:43 pmif this happens to turn into a civil war, then we have no business being involved. but since, there is such a big stake politically, financially, bet the tax payers bottom dollar we’ll be right in there fighting for the team that we can manipulate and control——-all in the name of oil.
February 26th, 2006 at 6:09 pmthrough all of this finger talking why should we expect any different? who’s “civil war” really is it? do you really think that this government is going to allow the reigning government of iraq do what they want to do? please, bushcos hands are gonna be purple.
BS the problem about teams is that no side or team as you will comes with out baggage, the Shia comes with their ties with Iran, and their distrust of the Americans motives, the Sunni comes with their Saddam baggage and their anger at the American military violent attacks on their cities(Fallugha or Samara for example) discriminate imprisoning of many Sunni’s and the treatment of them at Abu Ghraib, and the Kurds with their claim of an autonomous homeland which will be resisted by Turkey, and Iran because of each country’s indigenous Kurdish populations, So no matter which side we would take the situation would only get worse, but not to try to defuse the situation would allow the actual possibility of open full scale factional warfare ala Yugoslavia. We keep seeing Iraq as Vietnam, where as the insurgents see it as Afghanistan circa 1980, where we are playing the role of the USSR, and they are implementing the tactics that defeated the soviets, so the real question is whether we are willing to fight an Afghan style insurgency in the middle of an Yugoslavia style civil war?
February 26th, 2006 at 6:34 pm“No longer the facing down of a WMD threat, no longer the building of a ‘Democracy’, it’s now a ‘Civil War’ for the U.S. People (and their Military) to take sides in (Vietnam, redux).”
So what foreign army, highly trained in explosives and able to move freely in Samarra, blew up the mosque?
February 26th, 2006 at 6:53 pmThis just in from Juan Cole:
Iraqi officers announced that 20 guerrillas attacked the shrine of Salman the Persian. They killed the guards and placed explosives at the tomb, then blew it up, destroying it.
Salman al-Farisi was a companion of the Prophet Muhammad who advised the early Muslims on military tactics, and is said to have introduced the technique of digging a trench to trip charging enemy cavalry. Because he was from Iran, and because the Iranians largely became Shiites after 1500, Salman is especially beloved by Shiites.
February 26th, 2006 at 6:58 pmSo what foreign army, highly trained in explosives and able to move freely in Samarra, blew up the mosque?
Comment by Don — February 26, 2006 @ 6:53 pm
The mosque bombing does fit in the Sunni fundementalist Islamofascist foriegn fighter mnindset, the mosque was not a “holy” site to them because they deny the shia history and see shiites as blaspghemers, and the civil disruption that the bombing caused played into their hands politically as well as militarilly, They get to call for all sunnis to rally to the defense of the faith due to the attacks by the shiites in at the behest of the americans according to them, and they get a break as the americans step down military activitities against them in order to “cool” the situation. This allows them more freedom of movement and coordination of future plans. As long as the attacks are never directally traced to them the “American Black Ops did it” will be accepted by the vast majority of the arab street.
February 26th, 2006 at 7:19 pmForget the Vietnam analagies. That was a fight with Maoists who were rightful nationalists. Iraq is a communal civil war started by us and now fought by parochial interests. Basic survival is the goal of all participants rather than the creation of a nation. Any Viet model is inaccurate except for the fact that we should not be present.
February 26th, 2006 at 7:26 pm#51 Gary that is what I’m saying …an Afghan style insurgency wrapped inside an Yugoslavian style civil war and we provided the impetuous for both.
February 26th, 2006 at 7:30 pmSo a draft comes! Now, it is time to tell, I’m gay! Will this be the same ticket to “unfitness” as it for those in the military who are now removed for engaging in homosexual activities?
What will the usual conservative rightist say about drafting gays to fight the disasterous war.
February 26th, 2006 at 7:38 pmI just checked yhe CENTCOM Press releases–
*MINIVAN EXPLODES IN AL HILLAH
*MORE THAN 150 IRAQI SOLDIERS GRADUATE FROM ACADEMY
*ONE ANA SOLDIER WOUNDED, ONE ASSAILANT KILLED IN FAILED ATTACK ON CONVOY
*502ND INFANTRY SOLDIERS DISCOVER WEAPONS CACHE
http://www.centcom.mil/ sites/ uscentcom1/ Lists/ Press%20Releases/ Current%20Releases.aspx
In other words, nada on the turmoil now taking place. Apparently we’re a victim of circumstances at the moment. Reminds me of when I was in Saigon in November 1963, coup going on, explosions, and on Armed Forces Radio they were talking about a Kentucky mine disaster. Hold on!
February 26th, 2006 at 7:42 pm#47
February 26th, 2006 at 7:59 pmand my moral compass would say no. but that also has to do with the fact that i am against the war and everything it stands for. of course, picking sides would do no good, doing nothing at all does no good and that is the problem of invading and occupying another country. then steal their natural resource for your personal interests. another thing i think folks do not stress enought about is sunni, shia, kurds all have different beliefs in religion and none of it has to do with bushcos views. i believe this is the wrong admin to do anything and the best thing is for them to do as little as possible until we elect someone FIT for the job.
neo-CON MEN
Sham “conservatives†the like of G. Will either live in a denial bubble or pretend to. Iraq War Inc. never had an exit strategy because the bogus neo-con front that cooked this latest power grab never had any intention of leaving the region. Events have not quite gone according to plan but results are not far from what was intended.
That is:
a destabilized puppet garrison state that corporate cartel mobsters (that own D.C. and its MSM) established as a beachhead to divide and occupy the Mid East. All while they oversee the trashing and rebuilding of Iraq and other nations there at public cost for private greed.
Big Oil denominated in worthless fiat Federal Reserve Notes vs Euros is what was at stake in the ouster of Saddam (who was originally installed by the U.S. to decimate a million of his own) and now with Iran that has plans for an Oil Bourse founded on Euros.
February 26th, 2006 at 8:08 pmBS …I am against the invasion and the war but also believe that we must be as intellectually honest when we evaluate the situation.
Most Americans fear the Muslim fighters of Afghanistan much more than the viet cong, also almost all Americans can see the fiasco Yugoslavia was for Many years,
Since this current military adventure the neo-cons had the military enter it is best to be accurate in the historical analogy we use.
The insurgents are not viet cong like, they are Islamofascist freedom fighters just like they were in Afghanistan when Reagan became one of their best supporters,
the situation in Iraq did not come about as the result of the overthrowing of an colonial power as Vietnam did, but as a result of the loss of a dictatorial repressive Stalinist leader who had kept a multi ethnic and religious society under his ruthless control, like Tito did in Yugoslavia from the end of WW@ until his death.
Thus an Afghan style insurgency wrapped inside of an Yugoslav style civil war, which we sowed the seeds for when we invaded in March 2003….
Mission Accomplished…My Ass.
February 26th, 2006 at 8:17 pmBush and his gang of government specialists will peddle unto the govermentless region–weeks later, hand out money, have pictures taken, sell some Bicycle umm outfits?, woooo!
And they Will SAVE the DAY!
Yet some reason the A-team worries me…
February 26th, 2006 at 8:19 pmI can’t quite put a finger on it.
http://images.scotsman.com/2006/02/26/bush.jpg
#48 Don
February 26th, 2006 at 8:37 pmDid you read this?
http://kurtnimmo.com/?p=244
Iraq is just another project that Jr Bush touched and exploded right in his face. Remember Jr Bush never succeeded in anything during his whole pity life….
February 26th, 2006 at 8:59 pm#60 - XD,
February 26th, 2006 at 9:13 pmHe did succeed with the Dallas Texans. A bit of external cash looted from the citizens of Dallas and his supporters’ hanky panky made him a millionaire.
Now the citizens of the United States are financing his failures with billions to his cronies.
Does anyone sense a trend here?
Just figuring that out are ya MR Will?
All those polysyllabic words you spoute and you’re just getting around to figuring this out?
Guess you should have listened to us, oh, gee, I don’t know,,,say about,,,,5 FREAKIN YEARS AGO!!!
February 26th, 2006 at 9:15 pmWorfeus it takes him sooooo long to look those words up it just keeps him sooooo busy you know, next week he gets to open his christmas presents,,……….,, LOL
February 26th, 2006 at 9:24 pm#57
February 26th, 2006 at 9:31 pmi agree, but the problem is this admin. bush has committed serious crimes of all kinds. religious and personal freedom, security, financial stability, trust is what is needed. the nazi/zionists running this country is NOT the team you want when looking out for other interests.
some advice for you, bs - bookmark and visit this site often:
http://www.snopes.com/
you have posted some bogus things a couple of times recently (not here, now) and i think it’s in your best interest to check things out before you present them as facts - expecially if that info came in a forwarded email…
just wanted to tell you about snopes - it’s great fun too!
February 26th, 2006 at 9:58 pmBut when are we gonna try Bush and his cronies for war crimes ?- its way past due. hw
February 26th, 2006 at 10:26 pm#
So a draft comes! Now, it is time to tell, I’m gay! Will this be the same ticket to “unfitness†as it for those in the military who are now removed for engaging in homosexual activities?
What will the usual conservative rightist say about drafting gays to fight the disasterous war.
Comment by kevin denny — February 26, 2006 @ 7:38 pm
Hopefully they have improved their Draft rolls;
http://www.snopes.com/military/icecream.htm
February 26th, 2006 at 10:49 pmGeorge Will said:
“A government exists when it has a reasonable monopoly on the legitimate use of violence.”
Why does a “terrorist” strap a bomb to his chest and detonate it inside a crowded bus? Because he doesn’t have an F16. If he did, and dropped his bombs on a neighborhood then he would be representing a legitimate government. Hmmmm.
At least Mr. Will is stating that this is indeed a civil war. I posted a farewell to Iraq the other day and noted it was the only possible outcome.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:33 pm#67 Umm, did atheism cause these wars? Did they say “We are killing you in the name of atheism!!” No? I didn’t think so. It was the desire for power, something atheists and christians actually have in common. Nobody has ever said “you believe in god, you must die”.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:36 pmComment on the statement: “And a lame-duck congress will reinstate the draft…”:
February 26th, 2006 at 11:45 pmAnd guess who’ll have the last laugh when that happens and all the sons of republican homophobes get drafted? Why the gays of course, who’ll tell all and get to avoid the draft…Guess not being allowed to get married also means they get to live.
Now let’s see how masculine the rest of them really are.
So exactly who is the enemy in Iraq? Who are we fighting? What are we fighting for? What is a terrorist? Why don’t they give us answers to these questions? Is it because they don’t know or because they are confused? Is it because we are the enemy, and we are the terrorists? Is it because we are in an illegal war against an innocent people who did nothing to us? Is it for some other reason like OIL????????
February 26th, 2006 at 11:52 pmI guess if you want to NOT get drafted you just claim you are Gay and show up in drag at the induction center > lol.
February 27th, 2006 at 12:05 am[…] Think Progress - George Will: This Is A Civil War […]
February 27th, 2006 at 12:18 amA wild thought: Perhaps Rummy et al blew up the mosque, hoping to ignite a civil war and therefore enabling a US exit of its 160,000 troops to a friendly neighboring country…”just in case” whatever Iraqi authority that surfaces needs our help. Bingo! we’re out of there but still hanging around awaiting results; inevitably, the Shia will win out and begin calling for our help in reconstruction once the opposition is decimated. Guys in air conditioned cockpits can do “surgical” airstrikes instead of real men on the ground being blown to cinders by IEDs.
February 27th, 2006 at 12:41 amMaybe that’s why all the right wing geeks are lining up to call this a civil war….this is the exit they’ve dreamt of! “Ammurican boys cain’t hang out in the middle of a civil war,” (even if we caused it)! The evil of these people is unfathomable and unprecedented and unplumbed.
February 27th, 2006 at 12:50 amUnplummable.
February 27th, 2006 at 12:51 am(These are some comments that others have been posting here, I took the liberty to redo them a bit by joining them together to express my point of view. This since I thought that what most of my fellow American siblings who had created them said, came from their hearts, so I wanted to merge them into something that might spark a fire into all of us….LDS)
“Unfortunately ladies and gentlemen (and I use the terms loosely with all the shills on the blogs), America under Bush no longer holds any moral high ground.
We have invaded a country with no ties to 9/11, no WMD’s, that was no threat to our nation. We have killed tens of thousands, imprisoned tens of thousands without charge or evidence, we have tortured people who were completely innocent (see the German man held for months that is trying to sue America for his torture by the CIA), our government has sanctioned and pushed for torture, and yet, with all of this, America sleeps.
Democratic political leaders make a speech then run away before they get swiftboated. Republican political leaders make a speech then concede to their party. Our soldiers are being tried as criminals and imprisoned for following the orders of their superiors who get no punishment at all.
John Bolton is trying to keep the UN from acting by swiftboating them with his “sex and corruption” claims, lest, the UN declare America a rogue regime. Condi tells the EU to back off of investigating our secret CIA prisons where these people are tortured lest the EU nations declare America a rogue regime.
Our Vice President is involved in a shooting and the local law enforcement is kept from investigating it in a timely manner because it could be charged as a felony. It takes two secret service agents coming clean that in fact, it WAS a felony, Cheney WAS drunk (as I knew he was by the actions taken) and THAT is why the Kenedy Sheriff’s Department was refused access to the ranch, and, why later they squashed any investigation at all.
Where is the American public? Where are the protests?
We have a President that claims he knows nothing going on within our country (he wasn’t aware of the port deal? He wasn’t aware the levies could fail despite the documented analysis? He wasn’t aware the intelligence was false despite the CIA analysts concerns? He couldn’t have foreseen 9/11 despite the Aug 6th memo?) yet he still governs our nation?
Where is the American public? Where are the protests?
A mock election held in Florida proved that Diebold lied, that their machines are insecure and elections can be rigged, yet, states are pushing these machines and others like them on Americans. The GAO reported the security concerns. Independent analysis confirmed it.
Where is the American public? Where are the protests?
Our founding fathers took to the streets. They destroyed property. They attacked people sympathetic to the government. They started a war for freedom. Our founding fathers were terrorists who defied a tyrannical government. Our founding fathers liberated our country.
Where is the American public today? Where are the protests?
Everyday it is another lie, another PR blitz to cover an act detrimental to our country, another case of cronyism, greed, corruption, lies, and again I ask…
Where are the protests?
We hold no right to condemn any government or entity for corruption as our own Senators plead guilty to corruption. We hold no right to condemn any government or entity for torture as our own soldiers are tried and convicted of torture. We hold no right to condemn anyone for the same abuses our own government commits daily. America has fallen, and again, I ask…
Where are the protests?†Beautifully written by Val!
(And now follows my version of something that originally was posted by “WetBearSf” in Huffpost)
Everyone keeps asking when the American people are going to have had enough. When are they going to take to the streets and regain their Nation, etc.
Someone needs to say when. So I will:
I’m requesting that ALL Americans who, like me, have had enough of all these lies, all this corruption, take to the streets to be counted en masse!
April 1st - yes, April Fools Day, will do. That Saturday afternoon we must all go out with a sign to be counted…all of us…all across the country! We need to have people outside everywhere anyone looks. We don’t need huge crowds in one place, we need people everywhere!
Will you join me? Will you e-mail everyone you have an e-mail address of, for them to join us? Will you put a sign in your window asking others to join? Will you add this date and this action to all of your HuffPost comments? Will you spread this out to all blogs, all local news papers that might care, all schools (cause it is also about our kids, the future of THEIR country)
I will be there to save my country. And if that ain´t enough, If I need to do more to secure the future of our children against those whom seem so focused in selling her out. Well, then I will do as our founding fathers bravely did and raise arms against those who wants to destroy my Nation from within. Then I will die while trying to protect our way of life which never was meant to end this way that these here Bush-people have been turning her towards, Her = My beloved America.
I will endure this fight for my country…..Will you?
APRIL 1st!
Just DO IT!
February 27th, 2006 at 1:43 am1. Part of a secret $3 billion in new funds tucked away in the $87 billion Iraq appropriation that Congress approved in early November went toward the creation of a paramilitary unit manned by militiamen associated with former Iraqi exile groups. “They’re clearly cooking up joint teams to do Phoenix-like things, like they did in Vietnam,” says Vincent Cannistraro, former CIA chief of counterterrorism.
2. The New York Times Magazine, in May, 2005, reported on the Salvadorization of Iraq. The template for Iraq today is not Vietnam, with which it has often been compared, but El Salvador, where a right-wing government backed by the United States fought a leftist insurgency in a 12-year war beginning in 1980. In Iraq, U.S. soldiers are increasingly moving to a Salvador-style advisory role. In the process, they are backing up local forces that, like the military in El Salvador, do not shy away from violence.
3. Ahmad Chalabi has promised to use his own intelligence teams to act forcefully against opponents of the United States. Chalabi, the darling of U.S. neoconservatives and the Pentagon’s choice to be Iraq’s first prime minister, is leading the charge for the “de-Baathification” of Iraq.
4. Samarra is an ancient city, now surrounded by a five foot berm and acessible only through several manned checkpoints. The US Army 1st Infantry Division protects the city. It has only half of its former 200,000 inhabitants. In the city is the usually heavily protected Askariya shrine (mosque), one of the country’s most famous Shiite religious shrines.
5. In Samarra on the evening of February 21st at least two witnesses saw “unusual activities by the ING [Iraqi National Guard] in the area around the mosque.” “Just when it’s getting dark there was unusual activities by the ING [other witnesses reported men in police unifoems] in the area around the mosque, I heard their cars the whole night until next day in the morning.” Two mosque guards reported four men in ING uniforms had blindfolded them and planted explosives.
6. The curfew in Samarra started at 8pm. On February 21st, at 8:30pm, according to a witness, joint forces of the Iraq National Guard and the American Army appeared, then left at 9, then reappeared at 11pm. At 6am on the morning of the 22nd the ING left the area, and at 6:30 the Americans left. The first explosion occurred at 6:40, the second at 6:45.am.
7. One top Shiite political leader accused US Amnassador Khalilzad of sharing blame for the attack on the shrine in Samarra. “These statements … gave green lights to terrorist groups. And, therefore, he shares in part of the responsibility,” said Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim, head of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq and the former commander of its militia.
8. Khalilzad has urged the Iraqis to form a unity government in which nonsectarian figures control the ministries of Defense, which runs the army, and Interior, which is responsible for the police.
9. The stage is set for the US puppet Chalabi (or possibly the puppet Allawi) to head a unity government. US forces will be augmented with additional units, and there will be no further talk of withdrawal because we must do whatever we can to prevent a full civil war in Iraq. We have too much invested to think of leaving a chaotic situation.
10. The US will consider military action against Syria and Iran for their support of Iraqi terrorism.
February 27th, 2006 at 1:48 am“This throws a monkey wrench in the administration’s strategy of standing down (U.S. troops) as the Iraqis stand up, because it suggests that many Iraqis are standing up to fight other Iraqis,” says James Phillips, a defense scholar at the conservative Heritage Foundation.
Now comes the right wing think tank whitewash. The neocon “defense scholars”: “Gee, we really intended to leave all that oil, ten per cent of the world’s proven reserves, but now we just can’t. And all because of that darn mosque explosion. I wonder who did it?”
February 27th, 2006 at 2:15 amDon, there might be a much more sinister reason. Bush co wants to invade Iran, blow up the shrine and see if you can get the Iranian military to move against iraq, to protect shiite holy sites which would cause them to come in conflict with the US military on the ground, which would lead to combat with the neo-cons crying iran attacked first….
February 27th, 2006 at 2:51 am#79 well spoken
in london we will have 2 Million people demonstrating against the war on the 3rd aniversarry of the invasion ….COME ON AMERICA PROTEST
February 27th, 2006 at 4:45 am#79 & 82morelast year there were over a million. but that was played down by the nedia to 3/4 of a million and shows images of people beating drums with plaquards saying Bush the worlds biggest terrorist ….READ THE SIGNS..this year will be much bigger …..also there will be mass demontrations in IRAQ for America to withdraw
February 27th, 2006 at 4:49 amwho is actually gaining from present oil sales from Iraq
February 27th, 2006 at 5:30 amHere is the dilemma: is the coalition presence adding to the problem in Iraq? And if we are part of the problem, would a simple date of withdrawal either ease the violence or plunge the country into a worse nightmare as sectarian violence increased in the absence of any recognisable security? There is no easy answer, but one reality has to be faced: we cannot stay in Iraq forever.
February 27th, 2006 at 5:37 amNO, Bush is not responsible for the civil war in Iraq. Whoever first conceived the idea of a sovereign Iraq is responsible for the civil war, because the civil war everybody’s now talking about has been going on ever since they founded the doomed country, made up of diverse ethnic groups. Bush IS responsible for showing them the way they should fight this war. That is, to use carbombs and all sorts of violence in stead of diplomacy, democracy, REASON maybe?! So now, Bush can use this CIVIL WAR to make his point that there is still TERRORISM in the Middle East, and that he needs just a few billion a month more to ‘SOLVE’ THE PROBLEM. CIVIL WAR is not terrorism. There is no insurgency. The post-Saddam POWER VACUUM caused by the senseless Bush-administration has only unleashed the current CIVIL WAR which is a STRUGGLE for POWER in Iraq, one of the most strategic if countries in the Middle East. Therefor, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia, China and every other powerhungry nation is trying to make it their business as well.
February 27th, 2006 at 6:44 am#87 I think no matter which way you look at things Bush is ultimately responcible for the deaths of over 100,000 innocent People the war was based on lies and there was NO JUSTIFICATION AT ALL for this war, Bushes Legacy will be he is a mass murderer and that America will have 50 years of being reminded of this BIG mistake, Not only that nearly 1 million Iraqies will also die of Depleted uranuim cancers and such ..TOTAL DISCRACE TO AMERICA AND THATS IDIOTS WHO PUT THAT DICTATOR IN POWER
February 27th, 2006 at 8:04 amIts a BIG Pity those opposed to the war will be tarred with the same brush in the minds of many people as those idiots that voted for BushI would also like to remind people who did vote for Bush you have blood on your hands
February 27th, 2006 at 8:23 amNO, Bush is not responsible for the civil war in Iraq. Whoever first conceived the idea of a sovereign Iraq is responsible for the civil war, because the civil war everybody’s now talking about has been going on ever since they founded the doomed country, made up of diverse ethnic groups.
Comment by Jericho — February 27, 2006 @ 6:44 am
Maybe now people will understand why Saddam was such a tyrant. Not that I think tyranny is good. It’s just that the Middle East lives in a very different part of the world with very different cultural ideology. Clearly, going there, judging them without understanding them or why they do things the way they do, and then forcing them to be more like us isn’t working for very obvious reasons. And we’d have known that if it weren’t for the ignorant man in charge who thinks that there is one right way - his.
Impeachment. Now.
February 27th, 2006 at 8:58 amWho the hell is Will?
February 27th, 2006 at 9:05 amBy his assessment, the Watts riots must have been a civil war as well.
Antagonist, you seem to take very few people with any credibility. Who do you find a good member of our political machine? Who do you respect? Be as broad as you like, but I am curious who you trust and who you look up to.
February 27th, 2006 at 10:01 am#92
February 27th, 2006 at 10:52 amIt doesn’t matter who I respect. I question anyone you guys embrace. Anybody can come forward and say the things you want to hear–and they’re immediately given rock-star status. Why do you ignore the comments made by people like Tom Friedman–the guru on foreign policy matters to people on the left? He said, “If we defeat them (terrorists)in the heart of their world, in collaboration with other Arabs and Muslims, by putting together some kind of decent democracy in Iraq, that will have an enormous impact, an enormous resonance in the region and be a terrible defeat. So what you’re seeing now is in many ways acts of unspeakable violence. I mean, going into a mosque, blowing it up, one of the most prominent Shi’ites shrines, the reason they’re doing that is actually because in some ways they’ve been losing. The process of Iraq coming together has been happening. And I believe that the most dangerous point for America, as with Iraq, is the closer we actually get to producing a decent outcome there, the crazier our opponents are going to get, because they know if they lose, it’s strategic.”
#25″the people there will NEVER stop fighting over religion. all wars are over religion. My god tell says it’s OK to kill you, and your gods say it’s ok to kill me, over and over till the end of time. Where does peace come from?…when religion is kept under control by goverments ‘of and by the people’.
Comment by wisedup — February 26, 2006 @ 1:31 pm”
Yep. On a societal scale, religion causes FAR more damage than anything else.
#67″“No war has ever been declared in the name of Atheism…â€
Communism is an atheist system of belief. Therefore all communist revolutions are in the name of Atheism”
I don’t blame Marxism for embracing atheism; after all, the Church was a power structure linked to the brutal capitalist enterprises of Europe. You couldn’t get any help for exploited workers from the Church except a pat on the head. Priests who took the side of the helpless and actually tried to DO something were considered radicals.
And BTW, Hitler was raised a Catholic, and often cited his faith in “Providence” for his success.
February 27th, 2006 at 10:52 amhi progressive and proud just to answer your last question
I think the best person in American politics ever was Mahatma Gandhi
February 27th, 2006 at 10:56 amThere is something very fishy about the recent 180 degree turn around by all these Bushit pundits regarding their views on the Iraq war. Could it be Karl Rove senses impending defeat and is setting the stage for a face-saving rationale: blame the Iraqi people? After all, how can we expect a country of “crazy people” and “pinheads” to have a civilized, democratic government? Seems to me like those media whores might be taking their orders from the White House…again.
February 27th, 2006 at 10:59 amClif,
Oh yeah, Iran is definitely on the neocon platter, along with Syria, and maybe Saudi. Why accept half a loaf? In the Middle East, Israel is our 51st state, but it’s surrounded by enemies (most of whom who have oil, lots of it). It’s our (neocon) manifest destiny to control the whole area. It must be in the bible somewhere, if one really looks.
First it was WMDs and overthrow Saddam, then it was 9/11, and now it’s the civil war that everyone predicted to justify our aggression and occupation. We gotta be there for a civil war, don’t want to miss out. Support the troops.
American black ops is being blamed by the Iraqis in the street for the mosque explosion, so it can’t be true, some will say. This administration has never had a problem denying reality. Bushco excels at it, and Khalilzad is expert not only with harsh governmental suppression, with lots of torture and killing (El Salvador), but also in denying that it ever happened. In his debate with John Edwards, Dick Cheney said: “Twenty years ago we had a similar situation in El Salvador.” Iraq is El Salvador writ large.
February 27th, 2006 at 11:12 am#90 Lets say cause and effect
If Dictator Bush had not invaded Iraq then there would not be a civil war .right, therefore he is directly responcible for the outcome of an Illegal invasion
February 27th, 2006 at 11:13 am#90 according to your theory its like saying Hitler was not responsible for the holocaust
February 27th, 2006 at 11:19 am#96
February 27th, 2006 at 11:20 amBy God you are brilliant!
Something fishy is going on but it’s not what you think. Because Iraq is going so badly, the Bush administration has begun secretly exploring alien technology. As soon as they can transfer the aliens from area 51 to gitmo, they’ll be able to extract that information through torture. Thanks for the tinfoil hat dude, I love this conspiracy theory stuff!
[…] More here. […]
February 27th, 2006 at 11:30 amIdea:
Why not consider splitting Iraq into three countries?
It was an artifical creation to begin with. Does anyone know the history - was it intentionally to keep the factions opposed to each other so they were easier to keep control of instead of being united against the UK? Was it simply negligence? Was there a better reason?
Issues to resolve would include the fact that only the Kurd and Shiite regions have much oil apparently, so how to distribute that among the three nations; and the issue of Turkish opposition to a Kurdish nation.
We should also find out, gee, what the people there want.
February 27th, 2006 at 11:55 amCraig,
Some say that the Balkanization of Iraq is a neocon goal, but it’s never been stated as such. Israel would probably go for it, that’s important. The main problems with it (1) giving the Kurds autonomy in the North would invite lots of trouble with Turkey and (2) giving the Shi’ites autonomy in the south would in effect make them another province of Iran–not good.
February 27th, 2006 at 12:06 pmAPRIL 1st!
Just DO IT!
Comment by LouieD #79
LouieD,
April 1st,
YES I WILL…
February 27th, 2006 at 12:49 pm#29 - “No war has ever been declared in the name of Atheism… yet the non-religious are repeatedly slandered by the religious zealots” - comment by unbeliever
February 27th, 2006 at 12:50 pm*****Technically, you’re right - but the Communist econ system depends of the utilization of atheism. And we know how many religious and non-religious people were killed in the name of the “comrades”. But as an anarchist-atheist friend commented, “they were off to a good start.” (My friend is a former political science prof in the UC system - God help us!)
#79
February 27th, 2006 at 1:36 pmSo you’ve managed to put all of the nuts into one bag. What amazes me is that you’ve gone through all this trouble to compile these comments, and you still can’t see how utterly unhinged your side is. April Fools Day is perfect! No one takes you guys seriously anyway.
#79 - “I will be there to save my country. And if that ain´t enough, If I need to do more to secure the future of our children against those whom seem so focused in selling her out. Well, then I will do as our founding fathers bravely did and raise arms against those who wants to destroy my Nation from within. Then I will die while trying to protect our way of life which never was meant to end this way that these here Bush-people have been turning her towards, Her = My beloved America.
I will endure this fight for my country…..Will you?
February 27th, 2006 at 2:28 pm- Comment by LouieD
******April 1st - an appropriate day for fools to protest!! A few tips for you “groovy” 60’s wannabes from your conservative friends: don’t forget your Evian, poke yourself with your “protest sign”, or shoot your eye out with your Red Rider BB gun.
I always liked George Will he tell the truth even if the right-wing nuts don’t
February 27th, 2006 at 3:11 pmWe know George Bush has lied to us, spied on us, broken the law and sent Americans to fight an illegal war. The time for just debate and protest is over. We need real action to save our country and our Constitution – Congress must consider the impeachment of George W. Bush. Click here to take action: http://www.ccr-ny.org/impeachment
February 27th, 2006 at 3:38 pmWith the Bush administration claiming imperial powers to detain, spy on and even torture people, and the Republican Congress stuck largely in enabling mode, the role of judges in checking executive branch excesses becomes all the more crucial. If the courts collapse when confronted with spurious government claims about the needs of national security, so will basic American liberties.
http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/ archives/ 2006/ 02/ a_green_light_f.html#more
February 27th, 2006 at 4:10 pmUsing terror to fight terror
Two years ago, David Rose was the first journalist to interview the Tipton Three after their release from Guantanamo Bay. Now he applauds Michael Winterbottom’s award-winning film of their ordeal - and finds out what has happened to the men since
http://film.guardian.co.uk/ features/ featurepages/ 0,,1717953,00.html
February 27th, 2006 at 4:15 pmDear monkey wretch - I am ALWAYS suspicious of anything to do with the Center for Constitutional Rights. When Bill Kuntsler and gang included the Universal Human Rights Declaration along with the US Constitution, I knew it would be a fringe group that main stream America would NEVER take seriously.
February 27th, 2006 at 5:05 pmMaybe since I have no URI, this most likely will not send. So why write any message?
February 27th, 2006 at 11:27 pmApril 1st - an appropriate day for fools to protest!! A few tips for you “groovy†60’s wannabes from your conservative friends: don’t forget your Evian, poke yourself with your “protest signâ€, or shoot your eye out with your Red Rider BB gun.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — February 27, 2006 @ 2:28 pm
You leftout shoot your lawyer friends either…..
February 28th, 2006 at 4:46 amApril 1st - an appropriate day for fools to protest!! A few tips for you “groovy†60’s wannabes from your conservative friends: don’t forget your Evian, poke yourself with your “protest signâ€, or shoot your eye out with your Red Rider BB gun.
Comment by mighty aphrodite #107
…Where’s Jack the Ripper when you need him?
…that’s right though, a woman had to have functioning ovaries for Jack to take an interest in her…
Puny wouldn’t make “the cut”…
hahahahahahaha!!!!
February 28th, 2006 at 3:21 pm[…] “All three components of the ‘axis of evil’’ — Iraq, Iran, North Korea — [are] more dangerous than they were when that phrase was coined in 2002.” We’re seeing a pattern forming here. 1:24 pm | Comment (0) […]
March 2nd, 2006 at 1:24 pmGood for Will. Again.
March 4th, 2006 at 8:58 pmPointing out the failures of this president has been his bread and butter the last couple of years because Bush is not a true conservative AND he’s been a huge failure.
He’s the worst president in the history of this great nation.
I am someone from the right w/ a conservative/libertarian persepective.
This is a real disaster.
Going into IRAQ was simply unnecessary. They were not a threat to the US though the leadership was that of a brutal and venal dictator.
What is done is done and cannot be undone.
Where do we go now.
There are 3 options.
1) A general pullout is a DISASTER.
-Loss of Credibility
- Those that cooperated with the US will be viewed as traitors by all sides (Sunni, Shia).
- It would be another betrayal of the Kurds.
2) An incremental approach would bleed us dry economically and the American people simply do not have the stomach/patience for this.
3) Make a commitment to fortify this country for years to come with troops, infrastructue, humanitarian aid. This is politically untennable and the Republicans up for re - election in 06 or 08 will not support this as it would put thieir political careers in jeopardy. It would also make us nable to deal w/ N Korea and Iran simultaneously.
Also, we would have to float 200 B in more debt (to foreigners) who could then dictate US Foreign Policy by threatening to sell US assets (Bonds, Currency) etc.
Every option (including a Pullout) is horrendous.
SC
April 2nd, 2006 at 2:19 pmyou are all idiots. None of this is of any importance whatsoever. What is the point of living, if this is its consistency?
January 13th, 2007 at 9:41 pmNatalia Vodianova
Man i just love your blog, keep the cool posts comin..
April 7th, 2008 at 4:38 pm