Kristol: “We Have Not Had A Serious Three-Year Effort To Fight A War In Iraqâ€
Kristol: “We Have Not Had A Serious Three-Year Effort To Fight A War In Iraqâ€
This morning on Fox News Sunday, Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol, one the staunches defenders of the administration’s policy in Iraq, said the war in Iraq was not a “serious effort.â€
Transcript:
BILL KRISTOL: There would not be civil war if Zarqawi had not spent the last 2 1/2 years – had ex-Saddamists with him, very skillfully going on the offensive slaughtering Shia in Karbala, now blowing up the mosque.
CHRIS WALLACE: They’re there. There are going to be more mosques to blow up. What do you do about the terrorists?
KRISTOL: Kill them. Defeat them.
CHRIS WALLACE: We’ve been trying.
KRISTOL: We’ve been trying, and our soldiers are doing terrifically, but we have not had a serious three-year effort to fight a war in Iraq as opposed to laying the preconditions for getting out.
CICI CONNELLY: I think that really begs the question then: what have we been doing over there for three-plus years? You say there hasn’t been a serious effort to rid that region of the terrorists. I just wonder what secretary Rumsfeld would say in response to that or all the U.S. soldiers who have been over there all this time.
KRISTOL: Secretary Rumsfeld’s plan was to draw town to 30,000 troops at the end of major activities.
Essentially, Kristol claims the Iraq war — which he was sure would be a smashing success — isn’t working out because Donald Rumsfeld is Michael Moore.
Another question: Mr. Kristol, if the administration’s policy in Iraq the last three years has not been a “serious effort†why have you spent the last three years defending it?
UPDATE: Crooks and Liars has the video.
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Kristol the Super (Chicken-) Hawk, sitting comfortably at home, wags his finger at the Bush administration for not fighting a bloodier war. Surely this kind of talk is destroying the morale of our troops and emboldening our enemies.
February 26th, 2006 at 10:39 amCould Kristol be any less based in reality? PNAC and the neocons little intellectual exercise in exporting democracy has only created a haven for terrorists and brought Iraq (and the wider mideast) to the brink of utter collapse. We need more troops, less troops, if we get all the terrorists there we can kill them, but then we can’t. These clowns are rubbing the administration’s ass with one hand and punching it in the balls with the other.
Kristol should do some front line reporting, perhaps strapped to the dome of a mosque.
February 26th, 2006 at 10:40 amYour last question should go all the conservative/republican commentators who have been defending the war rationale and the administration all this time. I cannot believe that they are seeing it now when it has been so painfully obvious and in the open all this time.
February 26th, 2006 at 10:40 amCould be that the Krist is a room mate of Bin Laden who is well & alive & living in Boca Raton, FL.
February 26th, 2006 at 10:41 amBush didn’t want war.
Bush wanted oil.
Americans wanted to bust heads in Iraq.
Bush did nothing but occupy and wait for oil.
And it gets worse there everyday.
February 26th, 2006 at 10:41 amahh republican cannibalism…a thing of beauty.
February 26th, 2006 at 10:41 am.
2300 soldiers dead and the serious fighting hasn’t even begun!
February 26th, 2006 at 10:42 am“We Have Not Had A Serious Three-Year Effort To Fight A War In Iraqâ€
OK, fine, General Shinseki was right. What does this statement mean?
Is this a green light to fire Rumsfeld?
Is this a signal to NeoConLand that the Iraq occupation is “unwinnable?”
Is this an acknowledgement that ground action in Iran is impossible?
February 26th, 2006 at 10:50 amRemember that Mr. Kristol is chairman of the PNAC, the Project for a New American Century. One of this groups stated goals is remaking the Middle East, and they are not shy about using the US military to accomplished this goal. The reason Kristol is saying we haven’t been serious in our effort to fight the war there is because he would like to see us send in more troops and more bombs. And once we have Iraqi’s thoroughly under boot, we move on to Iran, Syria and the greater Middle East.
February 26th, 2006 at 10:51 amWe all knew the Iraq war was illegal.
The question was “how long were we going to go along with it”?
That question has been answered.
February 26th, 2006 at 10:52 amKristol is a war-loving soul-sucking death-mongering ghoul.
February 26th, 2006 at 10:55 amThe people who blew up the mosque in Iraq obviously did not know too much about Islam and the significance of the mosque.”
February 26th, 2006 at 11:01 amFar from inciting the civil war that the planners had obviously hoped for, this atrocity has all the indications of having united the various fractions against a common enemy, the US.
Yes. Kristol would just assume kill Arabs before Democratizing them.
~Now the Democratization process has failed.
~Now Israel is a sitting duck.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 26th, 2006 at 11:01 amArabs? Democracy? You might as well give a gorilla a Rubik’s Cube.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:04 amForgive me if I’m too reality-based, but does anyone remember the “Powell Doctrine?” From wikipedia:
Now that we’ve seen how the neo-con doctrine has played out, it’s obvious that none of these questions were answered — or permitted to be asked. Brilliant.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:04 am#9 “Remember that Mr. Kristol is chairman of the PNAC, the Project for a New American Century. One of this groups stated goals is remaking the Middle East,”
Oh, that’s why he’s saying it. He’s trying to explain why his pet theory isn’t working.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:05 amBoy, I don’t know what bothers me more:
a) the fact that William Kristol is even consulted about foreign policy after the catastrophe of his pet project
b) how cavalierly he talks about killing (we should just “kill them,” you see – it’s very simple – after having invaded their country on false pretenses)
c) Kristol’s absolute lack of shame, his refusal to accept even the slightest bit of responsibility for promoting this disaster time and again on the airwaves for the past 3+ years.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:05 amBilly, and the thrill of being in the death kult.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:06 amHey # 12, Let’s wait and see how this all plays out before counting our chickens. They will either be united against us or divided amongst themselves.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:10 amWell,he’s slightly more moderate than Michael Ledeen,with whom Kristol spends too much time. Ledeen is the guy who is always saying faster,please.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:11 amReaping the whirlwind.
Chuck:
Yes.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:11 amKristol is a warmongering Neocon and a Chicken Hawk! Since he wants to kill more Iraqis, he needs to get over there with a rifle in his hand and fight them himself! He has ZERO right to demand that young men die for his vile ideas!
February 26th, 2006 at 11:18 amThe real question is how Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld will react to Kristol’s statement. If they are sensible, then they will simply ignore everything Kristol says from this point forward. But if BCR still consider the Neocons as a distillation of intelligent conservative thought and a bellwether of future public opinion then they may respond by incrementally moving the war from the tactical to the strategic level. Watch for calls to evacuate “non-combatants” from problem areas so as to “better deal with the insurgents.” Also listen for suggestions to employ strategic weaponry such as fuel bombs and similar devices. If this happens, then things will get scarier than you can possibly imagine.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:21 amWHAT DID HE SAY ?????????
KRISTOL: Kill them. Defeat them.
CHRIS WALLACE: We’ve been trying.
We R Going the Wrong Way
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February 26th, 2006 at 11:21 am.
Conservatism never fails, it is only failed by traitors within who turn out to be liberals. Like Rummy. A real conservative war chief would have won Iraq, but, you knonw…
February 26th, 2006 at 11:22 amI have to admit, if the neocons want to reshape the middle east so bad, whey don’t they go, with there own money, and there children in tow. That way we can start rebuilding our nation, and they will leave us alone.
More on topic, I think that as Bush’s term comes to a close, we will see more of this type of thing. Republicans of all types are starting to distance themeselves from this administration. Bush’s unpopularity, and his inablity to do anything are starting to hurt them. See the recent dustup regarding UAE operation of US ports. Despite Bush’s bland assurances, even most republicans don’t believe him.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:24 amKristol should either be arrested and given a 20 year prison term at GITMO, or deported to Israel to live with the dying Sharon and NEVER allowed to return to the US?!
February 26th, 2006 at 11:25 amKristol is preparing for the Vietnam Excuse: We could have won if only the politicians would have let us. How long before we see the Rambo series revived with an Iraq vetran as the protaganist?
February 26th, 2006 at 11:26 amI am saddened to admit, I once listened to Bill Kristol and believed what he said.
What the neocon political view has lost is people like me that believed in a conservative approach to politics. I find his ilk not believable or trustworthy.
I’m not ready to hop over to DailyKos yet, but I do enjoy the Progressive perspective on politics….simply because it’s more honest, requires me to think and be involved.
I would relish a reality check for the Republican party and the political spectrum they represent this November and thereafter….and I’ve been a Republican for 22 years.
rich
February 26th, 2006 at 11:28 amSo I think what he’s saying here is that it’s the fault of “liberals”. Watch this spin lead to the whole Iraq debacle being the fault of democrats. Soft on war ya know.
If I remember right- Most democrats and many prominent rethugs called for more troops to begin with.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:29 amKristol is a neocon Bush apologist. I am sure the troops really appreciate his saying that for the past three years, there has been no “serious effort to fight the war.”
What an ignorant thing to say. Think of all the dead soldiers in their families. What does he think they have been doing over there? Playing poker?
February 26th, 2006 at 11:30 amKristol is a monster. He was one of the architects of this disaster, and yet he goes on TV every day pretending to be an ordinary pundit. Scum. He deserves to be tarred and feathered — live during prime time.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:31 amHere’s a guy who didn’t pick up a gun when he could have served showing his “military expertise.”
February 26th, 2006 at 11:33 amBilly, when your military expertise is in dodging a war, you might want to stay away from creating one. And, now, you might not want to critisize it unless you’re ready to pick up and join in the effort to make it serious. But, like that other sad piece of crap, Jonah, you’ll tell us you’re too old and have a family to support and yada, yada, yada… You’re probably right not to join, though – the people fighting in this unserious effort might frag you before you could open your lying mouth.
Billy, you knew from day one this was doomed to fail and you still pushed it. Many of us knew it was doomed from the start and we tried to stop it. We didn’t have a counterpart to FOX “News” and the other mediums that you and your ilk had.
Where was the “Fairness Doctrine” when we needed it? Oh, that’s right, your other hero Ronnie (I’m not a real soldier but I did play one in a movie once) eliminated it you so that voices like yours heard without any balance.
Billy, I hear a voice talking to you right now. Don’t you hear it? Jesus is talking to you right now? Really, he is! Just listen. He’s telling you to shut up…
Hey rich, thank you for writing that. You’re a mensch.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:33 am#9,
Yes, thats what the deal is.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:33 amI think that WiscoDuk is most likely right.
the next thing we will here, similar to veitnam:
“we could have won this war if the liberals had not wimped out”
I wonder what statements like this do for troop moral.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:35 amThis sounds like Viet Nam all over again: “Our troops had one hand tied behind their backs!”
February 26th, 2006 at 11:38 amKristol is a war-loving soul-sucking death-mongering ghoul.
Comment by Spooked — February 26, 2006 @ 10:55 am
Yes, but at least he’s a consistent war-loving soul-sucking death-mongering ghoul.
Remember when most Republicans were decrying Clinton’s involvement in Kosovo?
Well, Kristol was one of the few Republicans who supported it wholeheartedly.
Kristol, apparently, will support anybody’s war. A real equal-opportunity war-loving soul-sucking death-mongering ghoul.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:41 am#29
Welcome Rich! You’re surely not alone in realizing you’ve been duped.
From what I’ve read in TP over the last year or so- many folks that post are actually pretty conservitive people. You’ll rarely hear true “liberal” policies touted here.
“Liberal” has become a term for anyone that disagrees with Rush and Sean.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:41 ammartin, Dot Connector
Correct. Blame will be shifted from insurgents to Shiites, also.
We are on our way out of Iraq. Finally.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:42 amKristol is the official TV spokesman for the Neocon Cabal in DC, so it looks like the Neocons want more destruction and mayhem in Iraq > they want the war escalated with more use of missiles and Air Force carpet bombings like Nixon did in Vietnam! It was probably Kristol who forwarded the plan that destroyed Fallujah and wants more of the same!
February 26th, 2006 at 11:44 amSHAME ON THE CRIMINAL NEOCONS!!!
The arch neocon, Kristol, who helped draw up the insane plan in Iraq — after three years and thousands of American and Iraqi deaths, tens of thousands of injuries, squandering of billions of dollars, losing All American credibility in the world, now says the war hasn’t been fought seriously!?
February 26th, 2006 at 11:51 amThe pseudo intellectual must leave public life. Can a person be a criminal as well as a moron?
What the neocon political view has lost is people like me that believed in a conservative approach to politics. I find his ilk not believable or trustworthy.
I’m not ready to hop over to DailyKos yet, but I do enjoy the Progressive perspective on politics….simply because it’s more honest, requires me to think and be involved.
Comment by richb — February 26, 2006 @ 11:28 am
rich,
If it helps, you are not alone. Many of us here are defects from the conservative movement under which we were raised. I used to watch O’Reilly, and agreed with about 50% of what he said. Until I started thinking for myself, and then I realized what a self-serving idiot that man is.
The big difference I’ve seen is the Right’s adherence to absolutist theories – even after having been disproven. Never admit failure, and step on as many people as necessary to stay on top. It’s a weak system that eventually falls flat on its face.
It’s sad that the neo-conservatives have made life so unbearable for so many people.
Welcome.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:52 amLook guys, this is not difficult to understand. Kristol is the Godfather of the neocon cabal. He is not going to come out and say our ideology failed. He is going to blame something or someone for the failure. He is going to go to his grave saying invading Iraq was a great idea, it was Rumsfeld, it was the Iraqis, it was the weather, it was this it was that.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:54 am#26 – Actually, your suggestion is absolutely right. If these neocons really believe they’re doing the right thing in Iraq, MOVE THERE. With your household. And your children. If you want the war, fight it. If you believe the country is stable, go live there. If you love liberty and democracy more than life itself (you DO, don’t you?) then go where the action is. After all, your work is done here — we have a fully functioning plutocracy … er, oligarchy … er, fascism … uh, I mean DEMOCRACY … so why not move to Iraq? Do something for democracy, leave the country. I like it.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:54 amWe were talking about Katherine Harris’s creepy looks… but look at this smug facade. I cannot stand to look directly at ANY of these people. It hurts.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:56 amThe utter insensitivity and insensibility displayed by your typical neocon never ceases to amaze me. I wonder what the family and friends of the soldiers who have died so far as a result of the Iraq War would be inclined to think of Kristol’s remarks, since they suggest that these people basically died for nothing…
February 26th, 2006 at 11:56 amKristol + Nutjob + Bad Guy = Doctor No
Any Questions?
February 26th, 2006 at 11:57 amActually, your suggestion is absolutely right. If these neocons really believe they’re doing the right thing in Iraq, MOVE THERE. With your household. And your children.
Comment by Robustus — February 26, 2006 @ 11:54 am
Agreed. And I say we start with George, Laura, Jenna and Barbara…
First family first!
February 26th, 2006 at 11:59 am“What the neocon political view has lost is people like me that believed in a conservative approach to politics.”
I can relate to that. What people don’t understand is that today’s GOP is not conservative. Has not been conservative for ages. They can best be described as radicals. Traditional conservatives believe in small goverment, balanced budgets, govt out of people’s lives, evolution not revolution, respect for tradition, respect for institutions etc. Today’s GOP is 100% opposed to these principles. The govt has gotten bigger, the deficit exploding, we are invading countries for global social engineering. Barry Goldwater would not recognize his own party.
Supposedly we invaded Iraq to transform it into a liberal democracy. This is global social engineering. Traditional conservatives are against social engineering. They believe you can’t change society through direct govt intervention. That society has to evolve organically. And yet we expect to convert Iraq into our way of thinking through military force.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:01 pm“Mission Accomplished” lets have a head on a stick
February 26th, 2006 at 12:01 pmPost 50 Nan > The Bush Regime and their Neocon cronies really just want the OIL in Iraq and strategic military bases to be able to attack Syria and Iran, so a staging area for troops and combat aircraft > actually the real war for the entire Middle East is just begining!
February 26th, 2006 at 12:05 pmKristol is a naive ego-maniacal fool who simply cannot admit that he has been wrong about Iraq for the last 3 years+. He wasn’t wrong..it must be..umm, Rumsfeld?! Go away Bill you hack.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:07 pm#50 Exactly!
February 26th, 2006 at 12:07 pmFACIST
February 26th, 2006 at 12:08 pmWouldn’t it be wonderful if all these “chicken hawks” had to go to Iraq for a full rotation of duty? Maybe then Kristol can tell us how to do it right!
February 26th, 2006 at 12:09 pmWhy did we go into Iraq?
1) WMD’s.
Were not there. (Even if you’re batshit crazy enough to believe that Saddam Hussein, on the eve of the battle of his life, sent away his most powerful weapons, riddle me this: Should we not have used a strategy designed to flush out and intercept those shipments? Like, say a frontal feint with massive airmobile forces on the most likely escape routes? Oh–except they didn’t exist at all–and the military KNEW IT.)
2)Regime change.
We accomplished this in three weeks. But we didn’t leave.
3) Capture Saddam Hussein.
We accomplished this by December. But we didn’t leave.
4) Institute Iraqi elections.
January 2005. But we didn’t leave.
5)’The central front of the War on Terror.’
But nobody competent (Cf. Joffré and the French General Staff in World War I) fights the front at the center. You attack on the flanks where the foe is weakest. Where are the flanks of the Global War on Terror?
6) To create a shining example of democracy for the Islamic world.
We were already in Afghanistan. Why not turn IT in to the SEoDftIW?
Why would a free and democratic Afghanistan not become the beacon that would cause the Middle Eastern Dictators to Quake and the Democratic Spirit to Rise Up Like A Wave?
What was the matter? Too barren? too northern? Too hard to pronounce?
No oil?
7)Revenge for 9/11?
Where’s Osama Bin Laden?
8)To make us safe from terrorist attacks?
Where’s Osama bin Laden?
9)Shut up, you traitor.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:09 pmNow, that one I understand.
#52. Dont forget Venesula. The Fourth Largest Oil Nation
Comment by yea — February 26, 2006 @ 12:12 pm
That’s why many of us are only buying Citgo gas… In protest against the gluttenous Oil pig a.k.a. Exxon… ‘Cause the profits go to Venezuela and not Exxon. Small protest, but protest none-the-less. And to these greedy pigs in Big American Oil, every single penny counts.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:17 pmMartin (#28, above) is absolutely correct. I’m 53. Maybe a few of the posters and readers were not of voting age for Viet Nam, but for a very long time, what we heard was: The vast left-wing conspiracy wouldn’t let the Armed Forces do what needed to be done. We coulda won it, but the damn liberals wouldn’t let us win.
Errant nonsense. We spent 59,000 US lives, and probably north of a million Vietnamese lives, trying to win a war that we could not win. Oh, certainly we could have turned Viet Nam into a sheet of glass (Tacitus: “They have made a desert, and called it peace.”) But this is not the sort of victory that we had in mind in 1964.
When, six months, or a year, or three years from now, when Iraq has launched into full-blown civil war, when Iran has poured its own soldiers across the border, when we have lost six or seven thousand there and pull out in ignominy, guess what?
It’ll be the fault of the liberals.
It always is.
We, the liberals, are responsible for the deficit, the war, the levees failing against Katrina, the leaking of Valerie Plame, the destruction of the Twin Towers (having ignored a Presidential Daily Briefing on 9 August 2001) and the ruined economy. Of course we are. After all, we’ve had a stranglehold on the Congress, the Courts and the White House, not to mention the Mainstream Media. Who else could possibly be responsible? Certainly not Mr. Bush. After all, he’s a Christian, and besides, there was no sexual hanky-panky in the Oval Office. He’s good, pure and the sort of person you want to have a beer with.
The truly depressing thing is how many of our always thoughtful fellow citizens are going to believe this fairy tale.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:20 pmKristol is puking up elements of the “postulates” Bucley wrote of the other day in his well linked to diatribe…. essentially that we should have been more brutal and overwhelming…. look for more of this flowing tactic comming up from the belly of the “true conservatives???”
February 26th, 2006 at 12:30 pmGeeze, I’d hate to think what a serious war effort would be costing us in lives and dollars.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:32 pmThe truly depressing thing is how many of our always thoughtful fellow citizens are going to believe this fairy tale.
Comment by David Derbes — February 26, 2006 @ 12:20 pm
Excellent post. Just listen to any of the trolls in here and they will say the exact same things. 60 years of liberalism has ruined this country and we all need a dose of evangelical healing. They actually believe that. And I imagine that their children will too…
We’re the bad guys. Period. Yes, very sad.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:36 pmDavid,
A good friend of mine is from Mumbai, India. And he says that he was raised to not blame people because as their saying goes “When you point your finger at someone else, there are three pointing straight back at you.”
February 26th, 2006 at 12:38 pmThis strikes me as an attack on Rumsfeld’s planning (and the political calculation behind the war). It recalls part of the Powell doctrine – about going in with enough force – that was dismissed by the Administration early on. It’s a recognition of the “autocratic aggressor fallacy” – autocratic political leadership always overestimates the success of their battle plans, and underestimates the time anything will take.
Kristol may even be laying Neocon foundations for “accepting” the failure of the war. But, unlike Vietnam, this storyline places blame with the Republican Administration. For once, the scapegoat is the guilty party.
Now if only Kristol recognized the fundamental futility of pre-emptive war in the first place.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:40 pmRepubs like Kristol and Bill Buckley are getting tired of painting lipstick on Bush’s pig. They were his biggest cheerleaders three years ago, but now they’re all trying to come up with their own explanations for defeat.
Kristol — “We weren’t serious enough.” I’d like to see him make that argument to the parents of the 2200+ KIA.
Buckley — “It doesn’t matter, our core philosphies are intact.” What kind of cockamamie justification is that for all the blood and treasure that’s been wasted?
Tar and feathers is too good for these scum.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:41 pm> Tar and feathers is too good for these scum.
Firing squads would be appropriate.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:49 pm#58, excellent; #63, yes, the ‘postulates’! We ‘postulated’ wrong is all; let’s ‘re-postulate’!
As for all others who see the Vietnam parallels (’let’s not throttle down at this critical time, but CRANK IT UP!’)…
TALKING POINT ALERT:
To characterize the screwed-up situation in Iraq as a ‘Civl War’ (which Mr. Kristol did), is the latest talking point on that front.
It’s purpose is to divide the mess into ‘Good Guys’ and ‘Bad Guys’ (which Mr. Kristol did) so as to keep our Military there, on the side of the ‘Good Guys’.
Vietnam, Redux.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:49 pma really great shot of kristol on http://www.crooksandliars.com/
February 26th, 2006 at 12:55 pma perfect pose!
#70
But only this time…there is no clear “good guy”.
The Shiites we put into power are a little too close to Iran…can’t have that. The Sunni have gone from moderate under Baathist rule to side with radical fundementalists. The Kurds can’t be backed because neighbors to the north (with real militaries) won’t allow it.
It’s a quagmire plain and simple.
February 26th, 2006 at 12:59 pmWhat he doesn’t say, but probably believes, is that he would rather that Bush had ordered the entire country incinerated or nuked, killing the entire population of Iraq and rendering it fit only for oil workers in radiation suits, to accomplish HIS goals.
Is that the “serious effort” that he had in mind?
February 26th, 2006 at 1:03 pm#12 Agreed; ‘Anarchy’ is what I’d call it, intentionally created it seems.
My point about the ‘Good Guys’ though is that that’s ‘the other shoe’, so to speak, that accompanies this ‘Civil War’ talking point…
When the ‘Good Guys’ are identified (by our administration), then they have their justification for keeping the U.S. Military in Iraq…
then the ‘other shoe has dropped’, so to speak.
Vietnam, Redux.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:05 pm#72, I meant
February 26th, 2006 at 1:06 pm#23. “The real question is how Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld will react to Kristol’s statement. If they are sensible, then they will simply ignore everything Kristol says from this point forward.”
Too bad both Cheney and Rumsfeld are former members of the PNAC…
February 26th, 2006 at 1:10 pmPost 73 > Bush and Kristol want the OIL and probably considered the option of killing all the Sunnis and Shia Iraqis {they like the Kurds}, but decided killing millions of people is too Hitlerian and Americans would notice too!
February 26th, 2006 at 1:18 pmFinally! Somebody is saying what I have been saying: more guns! More blood! More war! Then, we will have hugs and flowers!!!
February 26th, 2006 at 1:22 pmEssentially, Kristol has been pissed-off at Bush for some time because he perceives that the PNAC doctrine has been incompetently executed.
Of course, the PNAC doctrine assumed that Iraq, Syria and Iran (among others) would go down easily, and quickly reconstitute themselves as stable, US-friendly democracies.
That was short-sighted enough. What’s really scary is that the PNAC strategy also assumed that China and Russia would stand silently by while the US “terraformed” Central Asia.
Should Kristol get his wish for more aggressive and brutal implementation of the PNAC plan, we can pretty much count on repaing the consequences of that armchair miscalculation.
I sincerely hope that — at some future date — Kristol will be given the opportunity to explain his plan to us…preferably from the inside of a glass booth.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:25 pmKristol’s attempt to maintain his NeoCon leadership by disparaging the very people who carried out his vision is laughable. I agree with the many observations made in the article and by commenters but believe that they are only the ‘trees’ to the unspoken ‘forest.’
February 26th, 2006 at 1:27 pmIsn’t it time for ‘We The People’ to demand that the media no longer take these people seriously? Instead of picking at the trees lets go for the forest. They have promised that if ‘We’ allowed them to pursue their vision they would deliver a better world. The facts are in now. They failed. And, worse they failed because their vision is based on a delusion about how the world works. They should be treated as what they are: delusional. I, for one, believe the sooner the NeoCon talking heads are laughed off the stage for being the deluded intellectuals they are the better for ‘We The People.’ This is no longer about Republican or Democrat. This is about giving madmen the credibility to act on our behalf.
It must stop now!
Rick Caesar
I actually agree with Kristol. If the administration had looked at evidence and listened to their generals and intelligence agencies we could have avoided a lot of stuff (like this whole war). I’m always reminded of one of the first battles of the Civil War when their were people having picnics to watch it. They have not been serious about this whole thing. Period. It’s all been a massive PR campaign.
On the other hand I hope to God he’s not critisizing the troops. They have been there getting bombed daily and fighting constantly. Remember when if a liberal would have made a remark about how this was a badly planned outing they would be accused of hating the troops. Looks like Bill Kristol is dipping his toes in the “troop hating” pool to test the waters.
So I agree with Kristol if he is talking about the bozos that planned this but not if he is blaming dissenters at home and troops.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:29 pmThat PNAC sounds like some scary Nazi shit.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:31 pmZion be not proud.This whore, kristol,has only to spew his code words on Sunday mornings to invent some new dog to wag. Should we purchase more ammo for our soldiers from Israel cause those poor boys could use more income to deny the existance of Palestine?Or maybe increase the DU our troops and the Iraqi civilians are exposed to?”There is enough in this world for need,but not for greed” so we need to stay focused on depopulation so there is no balance ever achived,the laws of nature compromised and the laws of man twisted and the laws of God completely ignored.We all sit here outraged at injustice and helpless except for the freaking keyboard while the jugglers of power continue to effect some obscene unknown conclusion.Someone throw them a barbell.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:35 pmthis guy is a typical ‘TWO FACE’ republican. Look at his face,(body language)..that smirk…like a snake,side stepping, backpeddling and always has a cop-out answer to a hard question. He MAKES HIS LIVING doing this and will never change.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:38 pmPerhaps Mr. Kristol would like to put on a uniform, fly over to Iraq and demostrate the proper methodology for ‘winning’ this war? I’d pitch in to buy him the plane ticket. But he’d have to bring his own body armor, of course.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:44 pm#82 Check it out for yourself.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
For added fun, search the text for “new Pearl Harbor.”
They tried to sell the same thing earlier to Bill Clinton and the Israelis, but the rise of the Neocons was the big opportunity. Kristol wanted McCain to handle this…but he got Bush the Lesser instead. He’s been bitching ever since.
And, no, he’s not disparaging the troops…he’s just yanked that his “perfect plan” has been so terribly botched.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:45 pm#84 wisedup:
Good call. Seriously, whenever I see Kristol, I imagine him in costume as Mephistopheles in “Faust.”
February 26th, 2006 at 1:46 pmDavid Wurmser, who migrated from the Israeli-connected Washington Institute on Near East Policy to the American Enterprise Institute to the Pentagon’s Office of Special Plans to John Bolton’s arms control shop at the State Department to Dick Cheney’s shadow National Security Council in the Office of the Vice President from 2001 to 2006, wrote during the 1990s that Iraq after Saddam was likely to descend into violent tribal, ethnic and sectarian war.
“In a paper for an Israeli think tank, the same think tank for which Wurmser, Richard Perle and Douglas Feith prepared the famous ‘Clean Break’ paper in 1996, Wurmser wrote in 1997 :
‘The residual unity of the nation is an illusion projected by the extreme repression of the state.’ After Saddam, Iraq would ‘be ripped apart by the politics of warlords, tribes, clans, sects, and key families,’ he wrote. ‘Underneath facades of unity enforced by state repression, [Iraq’s] politics is defined primarily by tribalism, sectarianism, and gang/clan-like competition.’ Yet Wurmser explicitly urged the United States and Israel to ‘expedite’ such a collapse. ‘The issue here is whether the West and Israel can construct a strategy for limiting and expediting the chaotic collapse that will ensue in order to move on to the task of creating a better circumstance.’
http://jameswolcott.com/archives/2006/02/a_better_circum.php
February 26th, 2006 at 1:50 pmWell, Bluestocking (#47), I don’t think the problem is neocon unfeelingness. Because, you know, those soldiers are dead, and nothing is what we’ve got.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:54 pmI’m not ready to hop over to DailyKos yet, but I do enjoy the Progressive perspective on politics….simply because it’s more honest, requires me to think and be involved.
I would relish a reality check for the Republican party and the political spectrum they represent this November and thereafter….and I’ve been a Republican for 22 years.
rich
Comment by richb — February 26, 2006 @ 11:28 am
#29 – Rich: reading DailyKos is, in no way, required reading on our side.
What IS required, however, is what you have just described – being honest, thinking, being involved and regular reality checks.
It is sad that this is a liberal/progressive/leftie/Dem/whatever requirement – it SHOULD be a requirement of ALL Americans, whether Repubs, Dems or Others.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:55 pmBuckley, Kristol and Bremer
William F. Buckley: “One can’t doubt that the American objective in Iraq has failed.”
http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley200602241451.asp
William Kristol: “We Have Not Had A Serious Three-Year Effort To Fight A War In Iraq†(on Fox News).
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/02/26/kristol-war-not-serious/
Paul Bremer: “On May 17 [2004], I had a meeting with General Sanchez to discuss the war.
What would you do if you had two more divisions, Rick? I asked him.
He was a practical soldier who didn’t normally speculate about the hypothetical when there were so many concrete problems to address each day.
But he answered immediately. “I’d control Baghdad.”"
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2006/01/new_bremer_book_challenges_sec_1.html
This is just further confirmation that they botched this from the start, and that they knew it was a botched job and effectively conspired to keep that from people.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:56 pmScum like Kristol architected this war long before the Dumbya junta was illegally appointed. Scum like Kristol argued that we needed a new Pearl Harbor to galvanize the American public around their war plans – thus was 9/11 synthesized.
The neocons are mass murdering psychopaths who need to be prosecuted.
February 26th, 2006 at 1:59 pmAnd another thing. Why are we siding with the Shiites in this conflict. These people have been at odds for over a thousand years and as far as I can tell it is not a good guys/bad guys situation. A clear Shiite victory will result in an Islamic fundamentalist theocracy allied with Iran. Is that the outcome we want? Sunnis seem to be more open to secularism. I am not saying we should side with the Sunnis. All I am saying is that in a situation where there are no clear good guys we should not take sides. We are going to live to regret supporting Shiites. Been there done that. Remember how the US supported the Taliban during the Reagan years? How we supported Saddam? Why are we supporting regimes that we later fight? It is going to be deja vu with the Iraq Shiites.
February 26th, 2006 at 2:09 pmTo the extent this item and the comments thereto suggest that Kristol is just now criticising the administration, I think they’re incorrect.
Very early on in the war, he called for more troops to be deployed in the face of looting and mass disorder (I don’t know if he urged that in the leadup to the war). He’s called for Rumsfeld’s resignation many times over the last few years. He may be a staunch supporter of the war, but it’s misleading to say he’s been one of the staunchest supporters of the administration’s plans.
Granted his goals are repellent, but I think it’s not entirely fanciful that things might have turned out less badly if the administration had given the Iraqis a sense of security. Perhaps it would have merely postponed civil war, but even that’s a small reprieve for a nation about to be plunged into hell.
February 26th, 2006 at 2:16 pmAnd oh yeah, that’s perhaps the biggest slam against the troops that I’ve seen since the run-up to the war.
Fighting the wrong war? OK. Ham-fisted and Jack-booted? All right. Cruel? Brutal? Soldiers have been called that since they were soldiers.
But not putting out a serious effort? That’s the sort of thing that will earn you a broken jaw from a vet.
If not a shotgun blast in the face.
Just sayin’.
February 26th, 2006 at 2:22 pmSend Kristol over there. Maybe he’ll be beheaded. Like a chickenhawk with his head chopped off. Send all the warmongers over there, Kristol, send Bush’s kids. Why not?
February 26th, 2006 at 2:30 pmHow many Bush’s, Kristols family members are over in Iraq fighting? You know, all the guys sending others over to fight and get killed?
February 26th, 2006 at 2:33 pmJudd asks, “Another question: Mr. Kristol, if the administration’s policy in Iraq the last three years has not been a “serious effort†why have you spent the last three years defending it?”
February 26th, 2006 at 2:35 pm*****Because, contrary to the “black and white” “all or nothing” thinking progs accuse conservatives of, but readily engage in themselves, the progressive “alternative” (HA!!) is WORSE. Progressivism, with it’s “throw in the towel” approach offers no viable solution to engaging terrorism in the Middle East. The solution, when confronted with a deadly snake, is to kill the snake. And when we find the nest of the snake – wipe that out, too.
if you notice, thoes who send us men and woman to war, hardly ever go the the front lines themselves. We were told they are ‘too valuable’ to be put in harms way. Ok, fine to a point. Flyling in at night to shake a few hands,then quick out,is bushes way. Our soldiers are doing the dying for all the right reasons,so they were told. When you see 2,230 dead bodys slaughtered, you can not be uneffected,then when you want to ‘go to war’, you WILL think VERY CAREFULLY. The whitehouse needs to send the complete admin. to see it for real. Oh, and lets not forget the mistery figures for the est. 25,000+ Iraq deaths?
February 26th, 2006 at 2:39 pmthe simple truth is the Horse has long scince left the Barn and the People who Know the Middle East were Dissed By the Neo-nuts and now we have a full blown civil war in Irac, Iran without doing anything other than watching and twittleing their thumbs has won and when the oil fields and refineries in the south [Not just in Irac but all the countries who sell oil to the west] go KABLOOOOOOOIIIEEEE! up in to the Air about two miles High we’ll be payin about $10.00 a Gallon that is if you can even get it All YOU MAD MAX’S and
February 26th, 2006 at 2:56 pmroad Warriors and all the HOOIEE about bringing Democracy and Ballyhoo when you can’t even bring Clean Water and Electricity let alone Security after 3 years in Irac I’d say Were gonna see another 1975 but multiply by a factor of 1,000 because when Saigon fell we didn’t see the collapse of the western economys………..
Post 99 more like about 150,000+ dead Iraqis now, so I guess Bush might pass Saddam in killing soon?! Also do not forget the 15,000+ wounded American soldiers of which several thousand are maimed > missing an arm or leg or both!
February 26th, 2006 at 2:56 pmKristol was a McCain supporter in 2000, and currently a Rumsfeld opponent. The Weekly Standard called for Rumsfeld’s resignation last year. For all those out there who think McCain is the real deal and a vast improvement over President Nitwit, think again. McCain is much closer to the core precepts of the Pax Americana and the PNAC than you might want to believe. And right now, he’s getting a free ride in the media. Lesson? Pull back that curtain just a bit more. We’ll be going from the frying pan to the fire otherwise.
February 26th, 2006 at 3:01 pmIf I were a playwright I’d write the last six years for the theater of the absurd. Ionesco said, “For me, it is as though at every moment the actual world has completely lost its actuality, as though there was nothing there, as though there were no foundations for anything, or as though it escaped us.”
February 26th, 2006 at 3:07 pmyou mean to tell me up to $400 billion dollars spent by the time this is over with, they figure. 25,000 casualties (killed and wouded). and there hasn’t been an effort? i would say bushieboy and cronies put a lot of fricken effort in the war on oil.
February 26th, 2006 at 3:22 pmI requested that Raw Story include a lot more articles about the NEOconvicts, and they did. …keep up the good work.
February 26th, 2006 at 3:39 pm[...] update> Bill Kristol clears everything up. I guess we’ve just been toying with them for three years. Yeesh. How could somebody who has been so immensely wrong still be so smug? -mg [...]
February 26th, 2006 at 3:42 pmSpooky is right: “Kristol is a war-loving soul-sucking death-mongering ghoul.” Otherwise, He’s a decent sort.
That said, remember that he’s also an idiot.
February 26th, 2006 at 3:57 pmPoor little NeoCon (as in con artist) Kristol is complaining that we just aren’t slaughtering people fast enough to fulfill his PNAC dreams!
February 26th, 2006 at 3:59 pmI say give him and all his PNAC/NeoCon/Chickenhawk pals a squirt gun, the same usless body armor they gave our National Guard troops, and drop their whining butts on the front line.
Right after we drop the leaflets to let the Iraqis know they’re coming.
Maybe then they’ll understand what “serious” really means. We know its serious to our true American men and women these people sent to fight for their dreams of conquest.
So Kristol has acknowledged that Iraq is now, in fact, involved in civil war. Maybe we should just nuke ‘em all and let God sort them out? Yes, Iraq is no more. My eulogy is posted here.
February 26th, 2006 at 4:26 pmKristol’s and the rest of the neocons chickens are coming home to roost faster than they can get on the talk shows to spin their way out of this unjust war. Kay Bailey Hutcheson was on another talk show and and her prescription was we shouldn’t take sides. We probably won’t take sides; they’ll all be shooting at us before we leave. And speaking of prescriptions; our T.V. Doctor, Bill Frist, seems like he has changed his mind about thee UAE deal. What did he base his latest decision on? Man if the dems can’t beat the Repugs in November, I hope the Repugs will sell us out to the highest bidder.
February 26th, 2006 at 4:33 pmKristol’s objection to the war isn’t that we haven’t put in enough troops, or even that we haven’t killed enough brown skinned men, women and children.
His objection in that interview is that from the beginning, we have failed to state a clear policy of taking over the country, occcupying it forever, and running it forever. His objection to Rummy’s plan isn’t that it couldn’t win the war. His objection is that Rummy, once the war was won, planned to draw forces down to 30,000 troops.
Kristol believes we should stay there forever, in massive force, and that this should be our stated policy. Anything less – and for that matter, any failure to treat Syria and Iran the same way – falls short of his standard for “serious”.
February 26th, 2006 at 4:42 pmit took 10+ years to get the Yugoslavia mess halfway sorted out. We all knew who the criminals were pretty much from the beginning. Now Milosevich is in The Hague, Mladic will be sent there and Karadcic will too. I don’t doubt this, because it is in the Serbs economic interest.
It is quite possible, that many of the aggrieved parties in the Iraq war and the Torture Issue, both US citizens aswell as foreigners will sue. The wheels of justice grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine. It’s possible that that is of quite some concern to members of this administration or those who instigated these deeds.
February 26th, 2006 at 4:44 pmhttp://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/070105rokke.htm
just an interesting piece.
February 26th, 2006 at 4:49 pmIt’s hard to believe that Kristol didn’t get the game plan. When the strategy is to create an occupation dependancy paradigm conditions have to remain in a perpetual state chaos.
Every move made thus far points to a bigger plan to entrench our troops and not build up an Iraqi military that could one day force us to leave. Take a look at everything Bremer did right up to the most recent reports that there are ZERO ING units that can operate on their own. What’s our basic training gor dummmies, criminals, and old fogies – a few months? They’ve had three years to gear up an army.
Kristol wrote a presient piece on why it was necessary to carpet bomb Afghanistan way back when. There was no rationale for it then or now. We’re way down the road past using more force. Fallujah was their last chance to rip Iraq a new one and it didn’t work. Any more would make the negative sentiment against us to nearly unanimous support.
The bombing of the Golden Mosque was just a coalition attempt to keep the Iraqis busy so they can bomb the hell out of Iran. It’s looking like their not biting though, and Iran has agreed to have Russia enrich their uranium. Of course Perle in Hardball the other day blamed Iran for the mosque thing. It’ll be interesting to see how they pull it off.
February 26th, 2006 at 4:50 pmHistory will not judge Kristol and his neocon pals kindly. 2300 KIA, one half a trillion $(that’s trillion with a “T”); and we have what to show for this, exactly? Final verdict: the greatest tactical blunder of all time.
February 26th, 2006 at 4:57 pmAnother one who is so full of it that its coming out of his ears.
February 26th, 2006 at 5:00 pm#115 – “Final verdict: the greatest tactical blunder of all time.” Comment by Butch, history ignoramus
February 26th, 2006 at 5:23 pm*****Egocentric people view “all time” as the sum of their lifetime. I would consider Saladin in the 12th Century, and Napoleon’s Waterloo as events which might garner your limited attention.
Tsk, tsk, tsk.
Is Bill Kristol the new George Bush?
Ah, I remember the good old days when George Bush was the new Karl Rove…
Such innocent times they were then.
Can it be many of you are focusing on the man too much? Spending mere minutes out of your day to attack men?
Must be because attacking ideas means the proposing of alternative ideas. Nurturing those ideas into movements. Much harder adventure there. Plus it’s been so effective to just attack the man.
Enough with the babbling, random attacks.
Coalesce your anger into a movement already! It’s like watching a bunch of monkeys throw crap at each other.
God knows I can’t stand neocons or communists, but at least they put their views into action. I can respect that even as I fight to restore the paleo-con influence within the conservative movement.
But I guess eating big corporation food, working at big corporation divisions, driving big corporation cars, filled with big corporation fuel, watching big corporation television, cheering at big corporation sporting events…I could go on and on…
The same corporations you attack for being evil, you support eagerly after being suckered in by big corporation produced advertisements.
Or are your fingers the only parts of your body with any energy to demonstrate your full outrage?
February 26th, 2006 at 5:38 pmThe solution, when confronted with a deadly snake, is to kill the snake. And when we find the nest of the snake – wipe that out, too.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — February 26, 2006 @ 2:35 pm
Still fighting snakes for rocks to hide under I see…….. now about the bush’s fisaco in Iraq, they did not listen to Powell who counseuled against it, he did not listen to Scowcroft who counseuled against ti, he did not listen to people who said it would cost way too much, he and rummy failed to listen to the Military leadership who said the battle plan and troop strength were inadequate, he ignored the UN, allies, world opinion and common military logic. Is it any wonder that we have a country on the verge of civil war?
February 26th, 2006 at 5:50 pmThe solution, when confronted with a deadly snake, is to kill the snake. And when we find the nest of the snake – wipe that out, too.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — February 26, 2006 @ 2:35 pm
Actually, the solution is to leave the snakes alone. They aren’t coming in your house trying to kill you – so leave the poor animals alone. What is it with you neocons wanting to kill everything?
February 26th, 2006 at 5:56 pm#117 Thank you for the kind words, Mighty. You are right of course. I did overreach. How about the greatest tactical blunder sinced Augustus sent his legions into Germany in 9 A.D. And what was that we have to show for our blood and treasure, exactly?
February 26th, 2006 at 6:14 pm#114 – “…The bombing of the Golden Mosque was just a coalition attempt to keep the Iraqis busy so they can bomb the hell out of Iran. It’s looking like their not biting though, and Iran has agreed to have Russia enrich their uranium. Of course Perle in Hardball the other day blamed Iran for the mosque thing. It’ll be interesting to see how they pull it off.”
Comment by willowy1 — February 26, 2006 @ 4:50 pm
*****This just in…. the bombing of Pearl Harbor was just an Allied attempt to draw America into WWII…Stay tuned for FDR’s address to Congress and the american people…”
February 26th, 2006 at 6:54 pm- Comment by WilLOW 2
In other words, at this late date, ol’ Bill has decided that General Shinseki was right: we needed a few hundred thousand troops.
Moron. Wants to throw gasoline on the fire, doesn’t he.
Buckley has bailed. Francis Fukuyama is calling Kristol and company, his former colleagues, Leninists.
It’s all buried beneath the Dome of the Golden Mosque, folks. This is the “What were we thinking!” moment.
If only this was just an unbelievable Tom Clancy novel.
February 26th, 2006 at 7:00 pmhis just in…. the bombing of Pearl Harbor was just an Allied attempt to draw America into WWII…Stay tuned for FDR’s address to Congress and the american people…â€
- Comment by WilLOW 2
Comment by mighty aphrodite — February 26, 2006 @ 6:54 pm
Mighty dumb; you do know there are MANY questions about what the Roosevelt administration and the American military knew about the Japanese plans in the fall of 1941, don’t you?
February 26th, 2006 at 7:09 pm[...] Crooks and Liars has the video of a statement by Bill Kristol on Fox News this morning to the effect that the U. S. has not been fighting a war in Iraq seriously. I think that the statement is accurate as far as it goes but I also think that the U. S. has been fighting the war in Iraq as seriously as possible given the political realities at home. That’s one of the main reasons that I opposed the invasion in the first place and, in my view, it was self-evident three years ago. UPDATE: there’s a transcript at Think Progress. [...]
February 26th, 2006 at 7:12 pmRumPUNCH AKA “RyANNE” – I guess the term “metaphor” eludes you. Public schools will do that to young children….
February 26th, 2006 at 8:08 pm#126 – Dear Clifford – You mean the part where the Roosevelt administration may have known about the planned attack on Pearl Harbor BEFORE it happened?? No, I didn’t know that. But let me guess, you have proof that Churchill planned the whole thing and:
February 26th, 2006 at 8:13 pma.)used cleverly disguised Brits to do the dirty deed
b.) egged on the Japanese to commit the attacks and get us in the war.
You’re so clever, Clifford – every one wishes they might be as bright and well-read as you.
[...] What the–? Is neocon supreme Bill Kristol equating Iraq with Vietnam? BILL KRISTOL: There would not be civil war if Zarqawi had not spent the last 2 1/2 years — had ex-Saddamists with him, very skillfully going on the offensive slaughtering Shia in Karbala, now blowing up the mosque. CHRIS WALLACE: They’re there. There are going to be more mosques to blow up. What do you do about the terrorists? KRISTOL: Kill them. Defeat them. CHRIS WALLACE: We’ve been trying. KRISTOL: We’ve been trying, and our soldiers are doing terrifically, but we have not had a serious three-year effort to fight a war in Iraq as opposed to laying the preconditions for getting out. CICI CONNELLY: I think that really begs the question then: what have we been doing over there for three-plus years? You say there hasn’t been a serious effort to rid that region of the terrorists. I just wonder what secretary Rumsfeld would say in response to that or all the U.S. soldiers who have been over there all this time. KRISTOL: Secretary Rumsfeld’s plan was to draw town to 30,000 troops at the end of major activities. [...]
February 26th, 2006 at 8:21 pmDon’t you like the way they always never mention the Aegis Private Contractor shootings? Nor the number of ’security’ contractors hardly at all? such as Blackwater USA?
What about that Mr Kristol?
I wonder how mercs err security contractors their might be?
February 26th, 2006 at 8:27 pmhttp://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5976.htm
March 29, 2004 “The Independent” — An army of thousands of mercenaries has appeared in Iraq’s major cities, many of them former British and American soldiers hired by the occupying Anglo-American authorities and by dozens of companies who fear for the lives of their employees.
Many of the armed Britons are former SAS soldiers and heavily armed South Africans are also working for the occupation. “My people know how to use weapons and they’re all SAS,” said the British leader of one security team in southern Baghdad. “But there are people running around with guns now who are just cowboys. We always conceal our weapons, but these guys think they’re in a Hollywood film.” ——–link above for full article
February 26th, 2006 at 8:30 pmNo Dummy as usual you distort what someone says, but that is to be expected, rather Roosevelt wanted in the war in Europe, and a way to stall and reverse the Japanese in the pacific, and he was resisted by the “isolationist republican congress as well as industrialists like Henry ford, and bankers like Prescott Bush, The cutting off the steel that the Japanese needed was the move that pushed them to decide that they were going to have to fight the Americans over the pacific sooner or later and they thought that by eliminating the pacific fleet they could gain an advantage that would allow them to prevail, history begged to differ, but in the late fall of 1941 the world looked different and the Americans were not spoiling for a fight so the & Dec attack was just what Roosevelt needed, and historians have many questions for his and senior military commanders actions. Like lining up all the pacific battleships in a neat row that would make them much more vulnerable to attack, there are many others but I think you might get the drift, if the snakes aren’t coming after you again……
February 26th, 2006 at 8:38 pmI wonder if yet aphrodite has purchased her Pellet gun. creeping behind the bushs’ waiting to shoot the first old person that passes,,those damn librul wheelchair drivers!
Aphrodite swings into action, cheney style, at least thats the excuse he she will use, leveling the cross-man co2 powered rifle at the poor woor hero merely out enjoying his stroll, his cat in hia lap, dotingly his wife pushed him across the lumps of weeds growing from tween the cracks of Aphrodiites sidewalk.
“git off my sidewalk!” squawked the old hen aphrodite holding a gun much like Anne Coulter, “yew Damm libruls!!” she screeched, cats in heat hath not ever heard such a racket.
Emnity had ate into Aphrodites brain, abrogating all reason she took aim at the poor defenseless cat, hating everything, she hated the people,the wheelchairs, she wanted to kill their Cat, and she did, she pulled the trigger,,phhtt.
Nothing, An empty cartridge, dud, blank, flash in the pan.
the police came later and escorted her away with this strange white vest on her. The Old people still walk by and the Cat looks kinda scared,,I asked what happened to the Pellet gun Woman.
The Old Vet told me that fear had eaten her alive and that phrase suddenly, thought oft repeated, made sense.
February 26th, 2006 at 8:48 pmMr HO read this?
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12083.htm
February 26th, 2006 at 9:00 pmEveryone seen this yet?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/iran_british_embassy;_ylt=ApYnEBWPfyJElmfxlNb5pgus0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ–
February 26th, 2006 at 9:01 pmWhen a pundit has proven time and time again to be wrong on everything, why does he still get a platform on TV? …. then again, Fox isn’t real TV, just a network pushing a narrow political agenda. these people are shameless, and i won’t rest easy until they are all arrested and put in jail.
February 26th, 2006 at 9:09 pmTEHRAN, Iran – Several hundred hard-line students threw stones and firebombs at the British Embassy in Tehran on Sunday, blaming Britain and the United States for the bombing of a Shiite shrine in Iraq.
Sad that this doesn’t even surprise me anymore…
February 26th, 2006 at 9:22 pm#136 WDThe Bush “democracy” is spreading.
February 26th, 2006 at 9:25 pmMore Mr. Krystal does not think about…
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article347806.ece
February 26th, 2006 at 9:27 pmBritain’s former ambassador to Iraq, Sir Jeremy Greenstock, warned that the country was slipping into a state of low-level civil war, with the conflict pitting rival ethnic and religious groups against each other. The sectarian fighting, he said, bore a resemblance to ethnic cleansing in some parts of the country.
“One could almost call it a low-level civil war already,” Sir Jeremy told the Jonathan Dimbleby programme on ITV1.
Although he did not believe that a “classic civil war” would follow, he said he feared local communities would look to militias for protection, ignoring the central authorities.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article347998.ece
Ethnic cleansing, .. where have we heard thta before?
February 26th, 2006 at 9:49 pm#50 ““What the neocon political view has lost is people like me that believed in a conservative approach to politics.â€
I can relate to that. What people don’t understand is that today’s GOP is not conservative. Has not been conservative for ages. They can best be described as radicals”
They’re Bush-worshippers.
They worship everything he does. It’s not conservatism.
February 26th, 2006 at 10:17 pmFor your viewing pleasure…reprise of Mr. Kristol catching a pie in his chickenhawk face:
http://www.guzzistudios.com/lipsmanliss.htm
February 26th, 2006 at 10:20 pmA new week ahead and a new Bush Scandal of the week > lol.
February 27th, 2006 at 12:07 amBut what if it was some Shiites that blew up the Golden Dome mosque? Maybe on orders from the Iraqi Interior Ministry…on orders from their Hezbollah handlers…on orders from the hardcore ayatollahs in Teheran?
I know. Sounds farfetched, doesn’t it?
However, when the 10 commandoes arrived at the mosque to plant their explosives, they TIED UP the mosque guards. And reportedly there were no casualties, although bodies “might” be found in the mosque’s rubble.
It sure sounds to me like the 10 commandoes were Shiites who couldn’t kill their fellow Shiites at the Golden Dome. In fact, the timing of the raid indicates that these commandoes didn’t want to hurt any Shiites, since not many Shiites would have been at the mosque at that time.
This doesn’t sound like anything a Sunni insurgent or al Qaeda-type terrorist would have taken into consideration. And if a Sunni insurgent or al Qaeda-type terrorist had walked into the mosque carrying explosives, they would have killed anyone resisting. Or just any Shiites there.
Nope, someone wanted to destroy the Golden Dome, while not killing any Shiittes, if possible, for some other reason. This is why I believe there must be an Iranian connection to what happened. Yes, the Iranian leaders are Shiites, but they are still foreigners relative to Iraqi Shiites. They sent their Hezbollah agents immediately into southern Iraq after Bush started the war in March 2003. They have set up a base in Baghdad at the Interior Ministry.
And I believe they will do anything, including blow up a sacred Iraqi shrine, to consolidate their hold on Iraq. To expand their sharia style of Islam throughout as much of Iraq as possible.
And why the U.S. military command isn’t taking advantage of this obvious attack by some foreign Shiites on one of Iraq’s holy shrines is anyone’s guess. Where are the leaflets dropped from the skies in Shiite areas? In other words, Rumsfeld is asleep at the switch again.
February 27th, 2006 at 1:13 am[...] And William Kristol and the rest of the PNAC elitists should be given a rifle and dropped off in the middle of the disaster he helped create. [...]
February 27th, 2006 at 1:15 amActually Kristol along with Hilary Clinton was calling for more troops since the summer of 2003. The Weekly Standard has frequently been critical of Rumsfield.
February 27th, 2006 at 3:42 am[...] In the classic film-noir The Maltese Falcon based on the hard boiled crime novel of the same name by Dashiell Hammett, Humphrey Bogart as Sam Spade refers to the character Wilmer ( Elisha Cook Jr.) as a gunzel. An early definition of the word was defined as a convicted criminal that had a fondness beyond regular friendship for another inmate, but later, like slang has a habit of doing, expanded to include gangsters who were not all that tough when you took their gun away and still retained at least a hint of implying that the gangster in question was less then manly. Bush gives new meaning to the word gunzel. Until 9-11 Bush disregarded the warnings of the Clinton Administration about making Osama Bin Laden a priority and instead moved fighting gun control,stopping the threat of medical marijuana usage, and punishing hookers and their clients to the top of the gunzel to do list. A punk’s list of priorities if their ever was one. For those that were paying attention, 9-11 striped away the facade of toughness, after reading a children’s’s book and flying around in circles he shows up in New York to wrap himself in the new gunzel’s protective gear, the American flag. The new gunzel is clever, ya see if you criticize the gunzel wrapped in the flag, it at least looks like you are critical of the flag too.9-11 was a horrible day and even the most cynical critics of the administration put aside their honest differences. What was important is that we as a nation gets some justice for this grossly criminal act. It turns out even as plans were being made to go after Bin Laden,gangsterish schemes were under way to wage war against a secularized Islamic state rather then the very tedious job of ferreting out the blood thirsty jihadists that concealed themselves within dozens of nation-states. Gunzels are notoriously lazy minded, they reject thinking about things that are complex, that require thinking outside the box. Gunzels hiding behind bluster, think they can point a gun at something and the threat real or not will shrink up and disappear. You can judge a gunzel by lack of results, ‘Significant attacks’ at 21-year high, revised data show The administrations’s approach to Iraq was the same as a punk’s approach to robbing a bank, they thought they had all the angles covered, but of course punks never do. They sent too few troops to do a job they themselves would never be brave enough to do, they sent them without the proper body armor and with no real plan for the occupation. Since the flag draping worked to deflect any criticism of Bush they draped Iraq in the flag too. They tried and somewhat succeed in convincing people that Bin Laden and Saddam wre the same thing. Yet no WMD, no collaboration with al-Queda ; thses imagined threats were used rather then haing a clear picture of real threats and a real strategy of defeating the terrorists and stemming the spread of terrorism. [...]
February 27th, 2006 at 4:43 amIs he glowing?
February 27th, 2006 at 6:51 amOne of the turning points in the Viet-nam War was when it became apparent we would never invade the North, take Hanoi and end the conflict. The notion of unending war was as problematic then as it is now. An unending war is the optimum situation for the military-industrial complex working through the National Security State.
February 27th, 2006 at 10:01 amKrist thinks he is just that: Krist, the second. And he thanks OBL every morning.
February 27th, 2006 at 11:03 amAs these neocon yahoos start putting distance between themselves and responsibility for this dreadful Iraq misadventure I pray everyday that one day they will be made to account to the American people for it. If there is any justice in the country these foolish people, from the president on down will have to answer. They are such crooked weasels though they’ll find a way to dodge responsibility.
February 27th, 2006 at 11:33 amthis site is written by silly people. Kristol has been criticizing the war effort for years. The readers of this site are also silly, in sort of an ignorant/undergraduate campus kind of way. The neocons are anything but Bush worshippers. They have been complaining about the spending, the war and the bible-thumping for years.
February 27th, 2006 at 1:01 pmAn independent, oil-rich Kurdistan friendly to Israel. A battered, bloody & enfeebled Iraq ? That’ll do nicely, thank you.
February 27th, 2006 at 1:16 pmWhat a cesspool of ignorance this message board is, with the exception of the last couple of posts! Fortunately, you appear to incestuously speak only to each other.
Perhaps when suicide bombers begin killing your mothers and daughters in our malls, a little light bulb will go on in your darkened consciousness.
February 27th, 2006 at 1:46 pmWhat a great site. I am glad I found you from Megite.
February 27th, 2006 at 2:28 pm156 Mike
And if that happens, it will be first and foremost suicide bombers created by Boy George and the Neocons. Iraquis are a lot like us, I imagine, they love their families as strongly as we do. When they see their daughter dying from a bomb from the US,don’t you think they would hate us with every breath?
Bush is a far greater enemy of my America than Osama or Sadam. He has done more to endanger my loved ones, and weaken America than anything those two could ever do, even if they worked together. Which they weren’t, despite the lies from the right.
I would lay great odds that Mike is a fundamentalist Christian. That is the last bastion of support for the pukes in Washington.
February 27th, 2006 at 2:30 pmFRANCIS FUKUYAMA is going to be on Countdowm/Olberman tonite. I wonder what his take on Kristol/PNAC will be, he was one of the original PNAC’s but now discounts their warmongering policies.
February 27th, 2006 at 2:32 pm#156- Mike – Even if their mother’s and daughters did get killed at a mall, these bozo’s would find a way to manufacture a HUGE neocon conspiracy to blame. Ever wonder about people who believe as GOSPEL (no pun intended) every rumour floated out of the back of a NY taxi or London alley?? Watching their mental gymnastics and contortions is entertaining, though.
February 27th, 2006 at 2:37 pm#158 – “Iraquis (sic) are a lot like us, I imagine, they love their families as strongly as we do…Bush is a far greater enemy of my America than Osama or Sadam.” – Comment by nanlice
February 27th, 2006 at 2:48 pm******See, Mike – I told you the self-hating, “can’t we all just get along” apologists would weigh in – and nanlick came through!! I’ll bet those Iraqi and Arab moms who are sooo proud of their contemptible suicide spawn love their kids just as much as we do. But since morons like nanlice are entitled to their opinions, why don’t they move to a place they might feel safer, like Ramadi or deep in the recesses of Tora Bora?
Pobrecito MA, looks like I struck a nerve. Could you be a thumper too? Bet on it. A pack of scabby, rabid dogs sneaks into the house and wants me to leave? I think you neocons are the ones to pack up and move.
February 27th, 2006 at 3:02 pm“just as soon” not “just assume” and “factions” not “fractions” you morons.
February 27th, 2006 at 3:11 pmDearest RightPunch, what a beautiful mind you have. I would love to have you as my neighbor! I hope many out there enjoy your wisdom as I do. Keep it up and knock em’ down. I’ll be looking forward to your comments in the future.
To: mighty aphrodite….Aphrodite was the goddess of beauty…I can’t see the connection of your diatribes and your handle, but keep up the good work! As you serve as a very fine example of what fear and misunderstanding can do to a person.
Comment by–Doctor Duck
February 27th, 2006 at 3:56 pm#162 – Dear Nanlice – No, you don’t have the capacity to “strike a nerve”. I merely wanted you to feel as safe and secure as you deserve. And if you didn’t have so many holes in your fence, the “scabby rabid dogs” wouldn’t bother you.
February 27th, 2006 at 3:56 pm#164 – “Dearest RightPunch, what a beautiful mind you have.”
Love, Mom
“To: mighty aphrodite….Aphrodite was the goddess of beauty…I can’t see the connection of your diatribes and your handle, but keep up the good work! As you serve as a very fine example of what fear and misunderstanding can do to a person”.
Comment by–Doctor Duck
***** Dear Dr. Duckwaddle – You make me blush, sir, but Mr. Aphrodite agrees with your first sentence. Please keep posting, too! YOU serve as an EXCELLENT example of the intolerance of the tolerant left.
February 27th, 2006 at 4:02 pmKristol needs to get his butt in uniform right now and take the place of one of the real men of this country. Let him drive patrol back and forth to Bagdad airport. Go “kill” terrorist. Go set Iraq free. Now if Kristol was killed we could say “oh he didn’t fight hard enough”. Then we bury his sorry butt without ceremony or honor. Its so disgusting.
February 27th, 2006 at 4:31 pm[...] Hvorom alting er, Bill Kristoll er nået til den erkendelse, at der de sidste 3 år ikke har været noget seriøst forsøg på at vinde krigen i Irak. [...]
February 27th, 2006 at 7:17 pmwe have been living this neocon nightmare, but i beleive we are finally waking up. 2006 the resurrection of sanity in the halls of congress – please
February 27th, 2006 at 8:11 pm[...] On Sunday, February 26 FOX News interviewed Bill Kristol of the Weekly Standard. Here is what the repugnant Kristol had to say about the full-on civil war that “recently” broke out in Iraq: There would not be civil war if Zarqawi had not spent the last 2 1/2 years – had ex-Saddamists with him, very skillfully going on the offensive slaughtering Shia in Karbala, now blowing up the mosque. [...]
February 28th, 2006 at 5:38 amIt’s only natural that we’ll see this sort of rightwing sour grapes now that it’s blindingly obvious the Iraqis have won the war. Most rightwing morons are still convinced the U.S. lost in Vietnam because it wasn’t really trying, and that it “could have won.”
February 28th, 2006 at 11:35 amHey # 12, Let’s wait and see how this all plays out before counting our chickens. They will either be united against us or divided amongst themselves.
Comment by west virginia hillbilly #19
Hey illbilly,
“Ain’t you got a mine t’ go down into?
February 28th, 2006 at 3:24 pmDear Dr. Duckwaddle – You make me blush, sir, but Mr. Aphrodite agrees with your first sentence.
Comment by mighty aphrodite #166
Puny,
That’s just ’til he gets out hon…
February 28th, 2006 at 3:27 pmWow, 173 comments about the C-in-C of the neocons, and not one mention of the three letter word that rhymes with ‘gnu’.
What good little progressive eunuchs you all are.
March 1st, 2006 at 7:51 amThe war in Iraq is not a failure. The main objective was to eliminate Saddam and that was achieved. A secondary objective (for the public) was to establish democracy, hopefully sooner rather than later and that has failed. A third objective (undeclared) was to destabilize the whole area (let’s shake things up)and that’s a success. And then there’s Haliburton…no more fat contracts for the French, Germans and Russians. And that’s a success. So, on balance, WE WON. Too bad about all those dead guys but there’s more where they came from. Hey, let’s conscript those Mexican illegals.
March 3rd, 2006 at 9:44 amMore of The Salvador Option, eh? What a sick, sick, man he is.
What leveling Faluja or however it is spelled, wasn’t enough death and destruction for you? And as you can see, it works SO WELL.
Years from now these people will be known as no better then Hitler. What is sad is that they have ruined the opportunity we had after 9/11 to really bring the world community together.
There was unprecidented support for the US after 9.11. And now? Because of these madmen’s ideology we are a pariah. We will be watching our backs over this for decades to come.
Bastards!
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:41 pm#175.
You made me laugh.
It is incredibly hilarious to me that you think the “stated goals” are the same as the “actual goals.”
The only goal in war is the subjugation of the target country.
Nothing more, mothing less. To think otherwise is charmingly naive. Unless I missed something, we still own the country. And, comparing raw numbers it is still much safer for Americans in Iraq than in this country (pssst add up all the murders, muggings, rapes, accidental deaths, blah blah blah).
Stop trying to fight the propaganda. At least until you get as good at it as Madison Avenue types.
#151.
Are you still believing the mass media (now derided as corporate media)? I bet the hundreds of thousands of dead Vietnamese and their families kinda feel it sucks they are dead, despite having “won” the war after the Tet Offensive. Don’t they teach the term phyrric (screw you I am not looking up the proper spelling) victory anymore?
#137.
yes, ve agree vith you immenseley. ve must arrest everyone who disagrees vith us. Then the reich of a thousand years vill be victorious?
Ahem, everyone understands sarcasm right? After all, I was awarded the B’nai B’rith Citation for Outstanding Community Activism many years ago. I mean. I even know Hebrew. Was taught by the honorable Rhabbi Tanenbaum even.
Psst. Not jewish though. Well, I am circumcized, but I lost nothing from that. Could have been enormous instead of huge, but no complaints here.
I could comment more on the rest of the silliest of the comments, but whenever I refer to my penis I know it’s time to stop writing.
Jeffie Jr. says hi too.
March 6th, 2006 at 11:59 pmLOL.. I typed “mothing less” in my last post.. HA! I bet some anarchist is going to jump on that! Even though, anarchy is about no rules. English was sure brainwashed into people something fierce.
March 7th, 2006 at 12:08 amI have wanted to be a Marine for about a year now once i realized that Iraqi’s are fuc*ing idiots……… I think being a Marine would let my iner self come out and show who i really am. I would love to kill all of them stupid fuc*ing Iraqi’s!!!!!!!!
March 17th, 2006 at 1:03 pm“…the horror,,,,the horror…” Kurtz was right…
July 13th, 2006 at 4:46 pmI hope everyone will realize that the PNAC is essentially a Jewish cabal. I’m of Italian ancestry, yet I don’t hang on Berlusconi’s every word, let alone even follow Italian politics. It’s time for Jewish Americans to start acting like the rest of us and put the Israeli state in proper perspective.
November 6th, 2006 at 11:44 pm