Pentagon’s Deputy Counterterrorism Director: We’re Losing
Pentagon’s Deputy Counterterrorism Director: We’re Losing
President Bush continues to claim we are winning the war on terrorism. From a February 9 speech:
Despite the violence and the suffering the terrorists are wreaking, we’re winning the war on terror.
Brig. Gen. Robert L. Caslen, the Pentagon’s deputy director for the war on terrorism, disagrees. From yesterday’s Washington Times:
Thirty new terrorist organizations have emerged since the September 11, 2001, attacks, outpacing U.S. efforts to crush the threat, said Brig. Gen. Robert L. Caslen, the Pentagon’s deputy director for the war on terrorism.
“We are not killing them faster than they are being created,” Caslen told a gathering at the Woodrow Wilson Center yesterday, warning that the war could take decades to resolve.
Apparently Bush only listens to the experts when they tell him what he wants to hear.
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And he will be out of a job/career soon for speaking out, even though it’s probably factual, against an Ideo-Centrist neo-con war.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:23 pmWhen you bomb a small town in Pakistan and don’t kill your target, but instead kill innocnet people, you create terrorists.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:23 pmHell it could take decades.
How long does it take to kill 1 billion people?
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:25 pmYes and the Number 1 Terrorist is gwbush and friends.
War profiteering,Torture,Censorshiping Journalists and MSM.
Oppressing the poor and the poorest among us.
OutSourcing Jobs to foreign Countries ,(Its Painful I know)
Invading other countries to Steal Their Natural resources.
Thumbing their Noses at American Laws and International Laws.
Promoting Nationalism that our forefathers worked against.
The list goes on forever!
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:27 pmThe General is probably looking forward to his new “assignment” at Antartica.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:31 pmhe will mysteriously die for saying that and it will deemed suicide. damn there has been alot of mysterious suicides in bushys reign.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:33 pmProps to the General! Speaking the truth is so easy, and yet so hard…
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:35 pmhttp://www.sss.gov/
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:38 pm6)
He wouldnt be the first…
http://www.rense.com/general69/r3nk.htm
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:39 pmhttp://www.counterpunch.org/leupp12072005.html
Here in Connecticut were trying to rid ourselves of our own Neo-con senator , Joe Loserman.
Please help us to take back CT’s senate seat for the democrats by helping ned Lamont.
http://www.nedlamont.com
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:39 pmhttp://www.dumpjoe.com
Jeez. You mean the Liberals were right all along? How could that be?
I mean, nobody could have anticipated that our destruction of a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 would actually increase the number of people who would have reason to hate America.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:40 pmGeneral, report to Mr. Roves office…PRONTO!,and bring some civilian clothes and all your stuff.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:45 pmIf we lose, we all lose. I don’t think the left understands that concept. AND if we are ever in position where we must cede authority to these animals, who do you think they’ll come after first?
They’ll start with those who threaten their agenda most – the loudmouths who want to protest about wearing burkas and the lack of respect for women. (and of course, immoral Hollywood will be ethnically cleansed).
So for your own sake, you better hope America wins this important war because it will be you idiots who suffer most if Bin Laden and his ilk are ever in a position to dictate America’s policy. They don’t like to be challenged and they would have no problem gassing those who don’t obey them. Believe it or not, the terrorists are the ones like Hitler, not Bush.
I pray the left never learns the error of their ways.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:46 pmI suppose we wait for the trolls to come and smear this fella now. If anyone says anything derrogatory about this administration, they must be full of crap.
This is why they can’t even find a CRONY to take Brownie’s job. Nobody wants it because all they will be is yes man who Bush does not care to hear from – just a warm body for a photo op now and again. Hell, looking at Brownie now, I feel a little sorry for him. Did he think he had a voice?
Bush is dangerous for our nation. He is unpatriotic and very dumb. Anyone who has such a low IQ and refuses to be taught or listen to experts, is dangerous for a civil society.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:46 pmThe General can send his soul home to Momma ’cause his ass now belongs to King George (”I don’t think…”) the Dumb. Forget about any retirement check–it just got lost in the mail.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:48 pmIf we lose, we all lose. I don’t think the left understands that concept.
Why do you think we tried to keep the neocons from getting in office? Why do you think the left tried to keep the neocons from violating the American way and invading a country as an aggressor instead of out of defense?
I dont think you understand that your actions are crimes against all of us in America.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:49 pmAnd I pray Judd would delete your rediculous posts. But “You can’t always get what you want.”
Keep praying buddy. It doesn’t seem to be helping Bush right now, so maybe you need to pray harder. Or maybe you are wasting your time praying for us, when you should be spending some of your valueable praying time to pray for Bush instead.
I pray Bush is impeached. My praying is much stronger than your praying.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:49 pm#14 – no one is smearing him. I am just pointing out that failure is not really an option in Iraq. I fear that if we lose in Iraq, the left’s beat Bush bash celebration might eventually be interrupted by a modern day Hiroshima if the terrorists in Iraq have their way.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:50 pmWell, Bush is doing a heck of a job at it. Maybe if you joined the military, you could save us all. You know killing the “animals” during the day and praying at night.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:52 pmSpudge – if you could have one of two things, what would it be 1.) Victory in Iraq and slow movement towards democracy in the Middle East or 2.) Impeach Bush.
I know the answer, but I’m just verbalizing it to show you how truly unpatriotic you are.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:52 pmSo for your own sake, you better hope America wins this important war because it will be you idiots who suffer most if Bin Laden and his ilk are ever in a position to dictate America’s policy. They don’t like to be challenged and they would have no problem gassing those who don’t obey them. Believe it or not, the terrorists are the ones like Hitler, not Bush.
Guess what? America has its own religious fundamentalists taht want to do exactly what Bin Laden wants to do. Dont you remember the stories about people leaving Europe to get away from religious persecution? No go check out the republicans “base” … southern baptists that think teaching Jesus is outlawing science and using Americas laws against its own people to persecute people for having their own religious beliefs…. Republican Taliban meet your middle east double …and its name is fundamentalist Islam… fundamentalist Christianity is no different. They only thing that has protected us from them is the Constitution and the Bill of Rights …
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:53 pmThey gonna use some of those invisible WMDs from Iraq? They could send it by ship to one of our ports that Bush handed over.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:54 pmI really appreciate the carrer military folks who can deliver the facts. Unlike teh political operative Bush has stacked the agencies with, these guys have been there and understand the gravity of the situation.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:55 pmGerald – your hate filled statement shows your ignorance and lack of respect for people in your own country. (BTW, The last time I checked, 63% of Americans want ID taught in schools.) But even more importantly, I didn’t realize the red state Talibans were gassing atheists and jews. I guess I should start watching NBC news more…
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:56 pmFair Question,
I wouldn’t have pre-emptively attacked Iraq in the first place. You see, we shouldn’t be worried about “fighting for victory” in Iraq. We shouldn’t be there in the first place. Your mushroom cloud scare tactics won’t work on anybody here.
I served during Desert Storm. Which war did you serve in. I sh!t more patriotism everyday than you will ever have.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:57 pm#23 – not everyone agrees with this man. Of course, I am sure no one here will be reporting on military personnel who beleive the war can be won.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:57 pm#18 So if the Iraq war, which has been Bush’s baby from jump, results in increased terrorism and an eventual nuclear explosion on American soil, it’s the fault of those who opposed Bush? That’s pretty wild logic. Can you lay that out for me?
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:57 pm20)
There you go with your ignorance. There are more than 2 choices to EVERY question. You people always on the right do something like this … “What do you want? 1) Mass murder and child rape every day every where or 2) Universal Health care?”
WTF??? Are you crazy? Those are not the choices. I can not image how I could do my job as a computer programer if I thought that way. I can have only two choices for any solution. One is completely rediculous and the other sucks… grow a brain … PLEASE
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:57 pm#20 – I don’t know about Spudge, but here goes:
1) We will never have victory in Iraq.
1a) If they want democracy, I love for them to have it.
2) Yes, impeach Bush, he’s a disaster for this country.
If Spudge Boy is unpatriotic, no one is.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:57 pmspeak of the Devil & the trolls appear.
Hey Fair Question, Bin Laden never was in Iraq. King dumbya’s escapades in Iraq have only made made the situation worse for us. You seem to be forgetting that part of the equation.
Worse. I have a hard time with that part too. Right now, it’s everyday Iraqi’s that are feeling the pinch. Have you been threatened by any terrorists here in the US? I haven’t. My rights and freedoms have DEFINEATELY been threatened and restricted by our King Dumbya.
So, in parting. If the Iraqi’s decide to go to full on Civil War, we need to leave. That’s what MOST american’s think.
Maybe you should volenteer for the Army. Maybe I’ll put one of those funky yellow ribbons on my car for you.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:58 pm#13 It looks like it is you who should learn the error of your ways. You have voted for someone who lies to you. Because of your denial and inability to address your own irresponsibilites, you choose to keep propping up a liar who is respected by no one but a few of you. And, honestly, I think you know you screwed up, but can’t admit it.
By your reasoning, if someone starts to murder someone, say by stabbing, and right in the middle of the act, they have a moment of clarity and decide that murder is wrong, since they have already started and if the man lives he will come after him, but if he dies, the murderer may get away with it, that person should go ahead and continue the stabbing because his outcome has a better chance if the victim actually dies.
No matter, the man should not have started the stabbing, but as soon as he understands that it is wrong, he should stop. Maybe, they can be friends again. You just never know.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:58 pmHey Fair Question -
Where in the definition below does it state anything about another country?
patriot, nationalist;
one who loves and defends his or her country.
So how is not supporting an illegal conflict in another country not being a patriot?
This is the problem with the Republicans. It’s about sides and not the country. In my opinion, this is unpatriotic, when someone cares more about a party than the country.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:59 pmLike you are one to talk a$$hole.
STFU
You can either stop your hate filled statements or put up with ours. We are not going to sit here and allow you to attack us, even though Judd will for some reason.
March 3rd, 2006 at 12:59 pmIf Spudge Boy is unpatriotic, no one is.
Oops – If Spudge Boy is unpatriotic, everyone is.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:00 pmUnfortunately, 78 senators and over 300 members of the House didn’t feel the way you felt about going into Iraq. I didn’t either. Sadam was a threat – remember him. We know he WMD because we gave them to him.
I don’t serve in the military. Does not mean I am not allowed to support the war. Sorry.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:01 pmGerald – your hate filled statement shows your ignorance and lack of respect for people in your own country. (BTW, The last time I checked, 63% of Americans want ID taught in schools.) But even more importantly, I didn’t realize the red state Talibans were gassing atheists and jews. I guess I should start watching NBC news more…
They have to shred the Constitution first…and they are currently working on that now arent they? And look back at christians in early America… witch hunts…
Like I said if it wasnt for DIESTS like Ben Franklin, Jefferson, Thomas Paine the gas chambers would be full… As long as we have the Constitution and Bill of Rights we are safe…that is why this neocon invasion of our rights MUST be stoped… or we are all doomed.
I grew up among the relgious right… they are sheep just like the germans in 1930s … first we unPatriotic…next we are evil and sinners against god… next we are gased …
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:01 pmYou mean the 28% that agree with Bush?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:01 pm
ID is teaching the supernatural in science class. I think our children are stupid enough without having them question evolution. Like someone said on post weeks ago, if there is no evolution, don’t worry about the bird flu.
This issue is moot. It has been resolved long ago. You can believe in God and evolution. Where have you been and why do keep trying to push us back into the days of bleeding, leaching and flat earth. Progress is the name of this site, please try.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:01 pmAgain FQ…how old are you?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:02 pmNow I know you are fvcking high. Even the Vatican said ID is a joke.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:02 pmYes, we all know what happens to anyone who speaks the truth within this administration. The best they can hope for is a pink slip.
But it’s the Condis and Rummys and Chertoffs who blunder their way to job security in this White House.
The funny thing is, this administration actually runs like many companies in the corporate world. The suck-ups, no matter how incompetent, rise to the top. The one who are with the program, even if the program is a disaster. Those who spend the bulk of their days justifying their position, politicking, collecting paper trails, rather than actually producing anything.
If you’ve never seen “The Corporation,” I can’t recommend it enough:
http://www.thecorporation.com/index.php?page_id=11
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:03 pm#31 – I think we were stabbed first when those animals slammed into the WTC. You can argue all you want that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but they were part of the reason it ever happened in the first place. Our last cut and run attempt in the region gave birth to the radical Taliban.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:03 pm#21
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:03 pmGuess what? The left, whom runs the democratic party in this country, are controlled by a very similar secular organization that is hell-bent on destroying this great country into a communist/socialist society. They hide behind the constitution and use the courts to further their agenda when fail to win popular support through elections. Their agenda includes removing as much organized religion from society as possible, increasing the already massive tax burden on the average American to cram their social programs on every last one of us and appeasing terrorists again so that the world community “will like us again”. The left in this country still do not get the fact that terrorists want to kill us. They don’t check your voter registration in the process.
“Unfortunately, 78 senators and over 300 members of the House didn’t feel the way you felt about going into Iraq. I didn’t either. Sadam was a threat – remember him. We know he WMD because we gave them to him.”
They only did because of the information they were given. Having seen more of the evidence after the fact, many have said they would have had serious concerns if not voted agains the invasion.
Do some research at least. My god, you people seem to have only a limited fact based veiw of things.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:03 pmKudos to Brig. Gen. Robert L. Caslen for having the stones to offer an opinion contrary to the administration’s.
How soon before the slimy Swift-Boating begins?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:04 pm#32 – Exactly. Party over nation.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:04 pm#38 and 36 – no one fear science or religion. AND please don’t invoke the constitution. The only thing liberals understand about the constitution is how to re-write to suit their humanistic agenda. Oh – and you complain alot about the electoral college as of late, too.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:06 pm#43 Why do terrorist want to kill us?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:06 pmBecause they were lied to right along with the UN. I can’t believe you just used a 2003 talking point. That has been debinked, but so have you.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:07 pmDude…yer losin it.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:07 pmFair Question
Hey little boy.. when are you dickless wonders going after the 911 murderers?
http://www.nationalreview.com/document/document042602.asp
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:08 pmIf you don’t believe in ID, then why is it not possible to create life in a laboratory environment? We know what the conditions were like in a primordial Earth, shouldn’t we be able to just duplicate them? What it comes down to is that if you don’t believe in ID, then you believe there is no God.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:08 pm#48 The problem is that you spend all of your time thinking about us and we are the ones spending our time thinking about our country and our fellow man.
The constitution, by the word of Jefferson, is a living document. Scalia thinks otherwise. Who do you agree with?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:08 pmNot we, Ronald Reagan. But, we were not attacked we VX nerver gas on 9/11. They were highjacked airplanes.
Nope, just means you are a chickenhawk. Chicken. Bawk bawk bawk.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:09 pm#43 – that is what is most scary. Liberals have focused their hatred on our country and our President instead of the terrorists. If they channeled that hatred against our enemies and stood up against terrorism, maybe we’d have a chance at winning.
#47 – oh please. You would kill women in children yourself if you thought it could bring down Bush.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:09 pm#31 – I think we were stabbed first when those animals slammed into the WTC. You can argue all you want that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but they were part of the reason it ever happened in the first place. Our last cut and run attempt in the region gave birth to the radical Taliban.
So you are saying Iraq cause 911 but the republicans creating the Taliban had nothing to do with it? How about ANYTHING that American has done in the past 20 years? Has any of that had ANY effect on causing 911? Come on be a big liar and say no… go ahead.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:12 pmOnce again, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. That was Osama bin Laden and al Qiada.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:12 pmahh, now our new troll is using the Darth Cheney gambit: Iraq was a part of 9/11.
OK, you are a troll. You muct be a rovian plant to, sent here to hijack threads that make the administration look bad (what was this thread about? Oh yea, a GENERAL thinks we’re screwed in Iraq) and generally whip up the libs.
It’s worked so far. But you poor sir, are still nothing but a troll.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:12 pmEverybody—-#13 epitomizes the convoluted thinking of the far-right. It’s all there, the pettiness, the resentment, the stupidity. Fair Question wants us all to understand that “if we lose, we all lose.” And I think we understand that and that’s why we’re upset about losing. (No, we’re really not happy about it.) Then he says this:
So he wants us to continue to be wrong as he tries us to convince us what is right. These people just want to hate and be pissed off ALL THE TIME. I’ll say it again: Why bother arguing with such confused, emotionally warped people?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:12 pm#54 – who defines what is alive and what is not alive in the constitution? Scalia is just saving you from yourself. Let the people decide – it might take them awhile, but they usually get it right.
Unfortunate for liberals, getting it right does not include using the gay agenda to attack the military, boy scouts and now marriage. Jefferson is rolling over in his grave over that, no doubt.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:13 pmYou can argue all you want that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but they were part of the reason it ever happened in the first place.
Huh? How could they have nothing to do with it and be part of the reason it happened? Heck ,you could invade any country with that logic.
Our last cut and run attempt in the region gave birth to the radical Taliban.
Actually, it was our last great crusade to spread democracy that gave birth to the Taliban. Setting up an $8 billion black market arms network with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, training the mujihadeen through Pakistani ISI, and fear of communism gave birth to the Taliban.
Had we left it alone, the secular Northern Alliance would have taken the helm after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:13 pm“We have to address the fact that the president has broken the law.†— Senator Russ Feingold
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:13 pmWhy? Because it makes you a$$holes look bad everytime?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:14 pm#60 – actually, I want to understand why liberal hate and are pissed off all the time. It’s safe to say, it’s Bush’s fault.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:15 pmI saw and heard George W. Bush say on national TV that Al Queda had nothing to do with Iraq and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Are you calling the President a liar?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:15 pmEistein.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:16 pm#64 – no, because you know nothing about the constitution. You write to suit your agenda. PERIOD.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:16 pm#61 – I agree that Jefferson is rolling in his grave, but it’s becasue Pres. Bush and his ideas of theocracy in America.
“I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.” – Thomas Jefferson, as President, in a letter to the Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut, 1802
“History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose.” – Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt in 1813
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:16 pmFair Question …
Read and really try to understand…
America Lost When Your Bunch of Neo Cons Preplaned The Invasion Of a Country That was at Peace and The Sanctions were working…
America has Lost Her Soul ,Her pride, Her ethics, Her Values.
It was the Grand Scam of the World to Steal Others Natural Resources they piggy backed on 9-11.
Wanna talk about the private prosons that are being built in Ameria by Haloilburton .. Damn did sin-com sne you over to try and Bend our minds? I strongly suggest you get you ass off this blog!
I have No Use For Nationalism Lockstepping ….sheep baaa feed me I give you my freedoms my privacy feed me saids the sheep..
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:17 pmWrong, unlike you, we can thnk of two different things at once. We hate Bush and we hate terrorists. It is very easy, but your pee brain probably couldn’t handle it.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:17 pmWithout doing a poll, I think that at least 90% of people want an additional $5M in their bank account.
Let’s poll all the young teenage boys to see if Playboy magazine should be taught in class and then do what they say.
We have a Constitution to protect us from certain ‘reasonable people’, and now they keep trying to destroy our rights to get their way.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:18 pm#65 – actually, I want to understand why conservatives hate and are pissed off all the time. They think they can invade any damned country they want without proof of any kind. It’s been proven it’s Bush’s fault.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:18 pmNope, we aren’t going to break the law to catch a law breaker.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:18 pm#65 – “actually, I want to understand why liberal hate and are pissed off all the time. It’s safe to say, it’s Bush’s fault.”
“Actaully, I want to understand why conservatives hate and are pissed off all the time. It’s safe to say, it’s (Fmr Pres.) Clinton’s fault.”
What’s the difference between these two statements?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:19 pmTheir agenda includes removing as much organized religion from society as possible
Good because organized religion has MURDERED millions apon millions. Ever listen to any of the nazis speaches? Lots of talk about being good christians… ever hear of the crusades? ever hear of the inquistions? ever hear of the murder of the jews during the black plague? and that is just christianity… look at islam … organized religion is a sin against humanity. God does not need a church nor a preacher. You are antiChrists.
increasing the already massive tax burden on the average American to cram their social programs on every last one of us
Those programs cost FAR less than the corporate wellfair and the useless miliatary programs that end up giving us a whole lot of nothing instead of a decent defensive military.
Not to mention those programs EMBODY the desires of JESUS to help the helpless. AntiChrists once again ..strike 2
appeasing terrorists again so that the world community “will like us againâ€. The left in this country still do not get the fact that terrorists want to kill us.
Being murderers is what you call not appeasing terrorists???? Terrorism is nothing more than fighting against something you dont believe in. So going over there and murderering innocent people is going to change what they believe about us? What kind of fools do you rightnuts take us for? And if you are so concerned about appeasement what about this??? …
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:19 pmIf you don’t believe in ID, then why is it not possible to create life in a laboratory environment? We know what the conditions were like in a primordial Earth, shouldn’t we be able to just duplicate them? What it comes down to is that if you don’t believe in ID, then you believe there is no God.
That is just the kind of thinking we need for our new madrassas to spread Wahabi Christianity.
And “life” has been created in the lab. You’ll want Bush to ban science altogether, or it might happen again.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:19 pm#53 ID is religion. You have made my point, it is not science. Parents can teach any religion they want at home. ID doesn’t even mean anything. It has no basis and basically just says to children that some really smart thing created us. Huh? That isn’t even a postulate.
Science is about finding out more about earth, space, future, dark matter, stars, etc. It isn’t about God. ID is not science in any fashion. We have to try to answer our children’s questions honestly and stop trying to dumb them down with ID. Telling them it some really smart thing that started this is stupid.
How do explain the cosmic microwave background, or string theory? Or, I suppose, who cares right? Just forget it; we have found a great answer that will make us stop questioning our creation. Just fabulous. Science class can be taught in one hour – I think that about sums up ID.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:19 pm#69 – you don’t understand seperation of church and state. You use that to get out of debating the actual issue.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:19 pmJefferson understood that Democracy was problematic. But the alternatives were rule by the rich, or a despot. “I am not among those who fear the people,” he writes. “They, and not the rich, are our dependence for continued freedom. . . . [S]how me where the people have done half the mischief in these forty years, that a single despot would have done in a single year. . . .” Jefferson reminds us that democracy is impossible without a large measure of social and economic equality….”
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:21 pmFair Question – Have you looked at the comments you make? Your the one with all the hatred. You make the claim that “liberals hate Bush”.
Why does wanting to get someone out of a position that they are CLEARLY incapable of performing “HATE”? Would you allow your company to be run in this fashion?
Would you allow your President/CEO of your company to just begin doing things that were destructive to your company? I know that many CEO’s have been fired for much less than what Bush has done.
Why do Republicans start spewing hate? People here post FACTS and debate, while people like you come in and sling hatered nonsense around and say that we are the ones with hate.
GROW UP!
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:21 pmBecause it IS his fault dumbass. He is president.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:21 pmAND please don’t invoke the constitution.
Why? Because it makes you a$$holes look bad everytime?
No, because it no longer applies in Conservative America Where Bush Just Wants To Protect You.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:21 pm#38 and 36 – no one fear science or religion. AND please don’t invoke the constitution. The only thing liberals understand about the constitution is how to re-write to suit their humanistic agenda. Oh – and you complain alot about the electoral college as of late, too.
Comment by Fair Question
Ever read the writings of Ben Franklin or Jefferson? THAT puts the Constitution into context. I dont give a rats ass how YOU interpret the Constitution. I DO care how the founding fathers did… and they do NOT agree with you.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:22 pmWho is honestly not frightened that Bush and the Republicans give away America and create terrorists in the process. We all know this is happening.
This
is
the
pushback.
Bush was elected to bust skulls in Iraq, not sell America to countries with terrorist ties.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:22 pm#77 Life HA been created in a lab, at least 10 years ago.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:22 pmGo get your high school diploma.
#77 Yes, life is created every day in a lab! I have frozen embryos in New York City that I am saving for when these idiot republicans are out of office and we can really start saving lives. They WILL be used for stem cell research, I just have to pay for their storage until this nation wants to be on the cutting edge of life saving technology – for those that are here already.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:23 pmyes yes, and I can learn to type. Life HAS been created in a lab.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:23 pmFair question..
We all know the Consitution ,The Bill of Rights , The By laws of this Country, The International Laws , The War Laws.
We don’t believe in Trashing 230 years of Consitutional Law just for your mass killer bushco.
gwbush&co are the real Terrorists hopefully he’ll decide that that the Paks are really his family…
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:24 pm#72 – yes, it’s just that liberals have NEVER been reasonable when deciding policy. Let’s see – Busing destroyed public education, social security gave an entire generation something for nothing only to screw the current generation who are GIVING something for nothing, the black community is in shambles, we are still fighting about Roe ….. The list is endless. Liberals have DESTROYED this country. Thankfully, we don’t have to worry about them anymore.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:24 pmIf you don’t believe in ID, then why is it not possible to create life in a laboratory environment? We know what the conditions were like in a primordial Earth, shouldn’t we be able to just duplicate them? What it comes down to is that if you don’t believe in ID, then you believe there is no God.
Because of organized religion murderering people over the past 2000 years that have tried to instill REASONING in humanity Science just got start in ernest about 200 years ago… Give science another 500 years and your silly beliefs will be laughed at.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:24 pmThe great thing about “Liberals Hate Bush” is it can be used to counter absolutely any argument. And it requires about as much thought as watching NASCAR, so it can be used by any Bush supporter at any time. Brilliant!
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:24 pmDamn.
I go to lunch, and I miss a chance to debate Fair Question.
Well, it wouldn’t be a debate as much as it would have been him reciting his ridculous, factless talking points and I would have been tearing his ‘arguments’ to pieces.
Ah, well.
Just for the heck of it, I’ll pick one of his gems:
“(BTW, The last time I checked, 63% of Americans want ID taught in schools.) “
What the hell? Where’d you pull that figure from? Tucker Carlson’s butt? Well, if you can do it, so can I.
Ummm… let’s see. Okay. 94% of Americans think that the neo-conservatives have lost touch with reality. Here’s my link to prove it: Scroll down to post 98 for details
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:25 pm#97 – and the fact that it’s true is pretty convenient, too.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:26 pm“The only thing liberals understand about the constitution is how to re-write [it] to suit their humanistic agenda.”
Does anyone else find this as spleen-burstingly hysterical as I do? “HUMANISTIC AGENDA”??
Is this an actual sentence typed by a member of the human race? Parody? Satire? I suppose the question that tops my Himalayan list of questions this raises is: what is the alternative to a “humanistic agenda.”
I mean, I suppose I understand the /opposite/ to a humanistic agenda to be the business agenda which proudly declares “Fuck global warming: the people DEMAND SUVs and by gum, I need to make money off ‘em so I can … uh, I can buy my OWN damned SUV, dammit!”
But honestly … as humans don’t we (SHOULDN’T we?) all have a “humanistic agenda” BY DEFAULT?
Oh wait … sorry, forgot about that torture-is-okay thing.
You are correct, Fair Question. Screw humanism. Which way to the Hummer dealership?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:26 pmGlenn – spare me the lecture. Your religion is trashing religion and wearing thin on me these days.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:27 pmI think I am gonna have to go with Thomas Jefferson on this one.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:27 pmFair Question said :”social security gave an entire generation something for nothing” ??? What ??? Can someone tell me what that’s all about?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:29 pm#64 – no, because you know nothing about the constitution. You write to suit your agenda. PERIOD.
Comment by Fair Question
Jefferson…
I am not for transferring all the powers of the States to the general government, & all those of that government to the Executive branch. I am for a government rigorously frugal & simple, applying all the possible savings of the public revenue to the discharge of the national debt; and not for a multiplication of officers & salaries merely to make partisans, & for increasing, by every device, the public debt, on the principle of it’s being a public blessing. I am for relying, for internal defence, on our militia solely, till actual invasion, and for such a naval force only as may protect our coasts and harbors from such depredations as we have experienced; and not for a standing army in time of peace, which may overawe the public sentiment; nor for a navy, which, by it’s own expenses and the eternal wars in which it will implicate us, grind us with public burthens, & sink us under them. I am for free commerce with all nations; political connection with none; & little or no diplomatic establishment.
You are wrong dead wrong…
“These are the times that try men’s souls.” This simple quotation from Founding Father Thomas Paine’s The Crisis not only describes the beginnings of the American Revolution
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:31 pm…
• AGE OF REASON
(1794, 1796)
Thomas Paine’s biting criticism of the Bible and religion.
http://www.ushistory.org/paine/reason/index.htm
Good, then leave.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:31 pmI’m with ya all the way on that Gerald Gibson,doing away with organized religion is the only way to save mankind from itself.It is the primary reason wars are fought:my god is better than your god so believe in my god or i’m going to kick your ass all the way around the globe is their mentality even though they can’t bring themselves to admit it.It is utter bullshit and i’m getting tired of them shoving their shit down my throat everywhere i turn these days.It is these zealots who are wrecking our country.Keep your stupid,childish,idiotic,superstitous beliefs to yourselves please and get out of my life thankyou very much.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:32 pmGood, then leave.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:32 pmThe day social security started paying out, all recipients had never put INTO the system. Is that clear enough for you? The system was designed for failure as most liberal policies are.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:32 pmFair Question, it is clear that you don’t care who wrote our constitution or what they said. You continually disagree with the authors. What does that say about you? Did you ever take class where the constitution was even mentioned?
I’m guessing you are from the South. I can say that; I am from the South and meet your type daily. I remember them from high school and when you see them today, it is clear they haven’t learned a thing since 7th grade. They drive their $600.00 cars with Bush stickers (which seem to be less and less every week to my pleasure) to WalMart and spend $200.00. I see them in drive thru lanes as I pass by them on my way to the local grocery store to buy food to cook.
C’mon, read some writings of Jefferson, Franklin and Washington. You may be very surprised that a lot of what they saying was extremely progressive. Actually, when I go back and reread some of their writings I am suprised myself that they were so forward thinking; that they had the same problems as progressives today. They are my true heros, well and Jon Stewart, and continue to learn from them. You would be shocked at how they disagree with many of yours and Bush’s ideas.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:32 pm“We are not killing them faster than they are being created,â€
Our society is so centered economically to wage war that we discuss other human beings as though they are insects or some other form of vermin.
The foreign policy of the U.S. over the last 35 years, and particularly the last 5 years, has created several generations, of myriad national origins, entrenched in global anti-Americanism. Meanwhile, on a corporate level, purported enemies trade with enemies; money erases all ethical, moral, and nationalistic considerations.
We are being sucked into an inescapable vortex of corporate sponsored, perpetual war; one that is fictional in its ideological origins, but all too real in its consequences.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:33 pm#13. If we lose, we all lose…
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:33 pmComment by Fair Question — March 3, 2006 @ 12:46 pm
Hot damn! If it ain’t good ole Abu Pat Akbar Robertson cloaked as a blogger! Ha ha! In mufti no less, just like the baaaybeee geezus. How the hell are ya, you toothless poacher! Sounds like ya gots lostsa assasination and den-of-inequity cleansing weather petitions on yer intercessory prayer list today. Aint’cha just holy! I guess I’ve been wrong about you. All this time I thought you wuz jus another barn burning, bare foot, pig fucker.
Solitaire,
You know how people hate to get something for nothing. Free stuff sucks. Buy 2 get one free is a bad thing and so are double coupons.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:34 pm#109 Can you try to make a succint argument? We want to debate with you but can’t understand what your point is. Is it just to insult? If so, maybe you should go elsewhere.
Do you really believe that FDR wanted to create a system to fail?
Do you actually think that anyone wants failure?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:34 pmPaine was a good Christian.
Harman’s seat in the Senate is being challenged. Good.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:34 pmLet’s all email her our Antisupport.
She allowed Bush to spy on me and you.
And before the first well was dug, there wasn’t any water in it.
Which came first, the chicken or the egg.
SO, what have you been putting into Social Security for 2 years now? Wait until you have been doing it for years.
Wasn’t it Bush who siad that he can’t wait to retire and start collecting his Social Security check? Well, yes it was.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:36 pmFQ,…calm down, wisedup…but when you call SpudgeBoy ‘unpatriotic’, you expose yourself to be the FOOL you are. You SHOULD sit back and WATCH this site BEFORE you comment like that……wised up is cooling down now…
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:36 pmFair Question, what do you think about Jefferson’s quote above?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:38 pmOh, goody. Fodder.
yes, it’s just that liberals have NEVER been reasonable when deciding policy.
And conservatives are doing a bang up job of it now, right? In case you haven’t noticed, the world hates us right now.
Let’s see – Busing destroyed public education
No it didn’t, moron. It destroyed segregation. What destroyed public education was it being neglected by Republicans for so long. I mean, if their kids are in private schools, why should they fund public?
social security gave an entire generation something for nothing only to screw the current generation who are GIVING something for nothing
I guess you would rather the eldery live in poverty and filth? Oh, and Social Security isn’t broken. It isn’t going bankrupt. You’ve been misled again by your fearless leader. Maybe if companies weren’t being forced to drop pension plans due to trying to remain competetive with all the companies that GOP economic policies have forced out of the country, people wouldn’t be so dependent on Social Security.
the black community is in shambles
Yes, it is. But if you are trying to lay this on the doorstep of the Democrats, you’re just plain wrong. There is a serious disenfranchisement with African Americans in this country fueled by the ever growing gap between rich and poor. Guess how that has happened? GOP economics again.
we are still fighting about Roe
Yup, we are. Cause I don’t think you have any right to tell my sister, wife, daughter, or niece what they should do with their body because it offends YOUR relgious values. Back off. I don’t want to force you to live by my values, so stop making others try to live by yours.
The list is endless. Liberals have DESTROYED this country.
Bull. We built this country. Without us, it’d be a fuedal society. Lords ruling the peasents. It’s because of liberals that your ten year olds get to go to school rather than being forced to work in factories for spare change. It’s because of liberals that you can trust your workplace to be safe and free of unexpected dangers. It is because of liberals that, should you be injured at work, you can expect fair medical treatment and compensation for your lost work, and have money coming in if you’re laid off. It’s also because of liberals that you have reasonably clean water to drink and bathe in, and that the local swimming hole isn’t completely polluted. It’s because of liberals that women have the right to vote. It’s because of liberals that people regardless of color, relgion, culture, or race have equal rights.
Thankfully, we don’t have to worry about them anymore.
You keep on not worrying, bud. See you in November.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:39 pmHey Fair Question -
If Bush is sooooo great, why are our right being taken away?
People no longer can even pay bills without Homeland Security being in the middle of it and authorizing the release of funds to pay the bills.
http://www.rense.com/general69/card.htm
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:40 pm“[I]f you don’t believe in ID, then you believe there is no God.”
I don’t think this holds logically or otherwise. Wasn’t the judge who declared ID “inanity” in the Dover PA case a religious man? Maybe I’m wrong about that.
However.
That is exactly what I believe: that, in short, there is no god, whether your YHWH, Baby Jeebus, Allah, Wotan, Zeus, Pan, or Great Cthulhu. No god, nor gods, nor demigods, whatever. Shoot, I don’t believe there is such a thing as the “soul,” either. So what?
Why do I not believe in a god? Because I do not see a god as a necessary pre-requisite for the existence of the universe. If you ask me “who created the universe?” I can just as validly ask you “well, if it was god, who created god?” and I invoke Occam’s Razor by removing god from that picture. Not exactly Q.E.D., but that’s my take.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:40 pmfair question thinks he’s erudite and sharp.
guy – you haven’t “debated” any point here. Your answers are pat one liners straight out of any talking point book, that don’t address the issue at hand.
You use mistruths of your political opponents to claim your richeousness, you mis-state your opponents views and then insult them from the lies that you just uttered.
You aren’t woth the bandwidth you’ve use today. Please go back to your reichtwingnutz friends and have them send a better foil over here to make fun of the liberals.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:41 pmPentagon report: Insurgent attacks hit postwar high:
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:41 pmhttp://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=34434&archive=true
#114 – not from the south. Not important where I am from.
No, FDR did not create social security to fail, but it did. Just like Bush created that awful prescription drug plan that’s going to fail – he had the best intentions. Social security made several assumptions about population growth, worker to retiree ratio, and of course effective govt that don’t hold true today. The second social security was created an entire generation who had never invested in the system received benefits. Now, 60 years later, after the baby boomers retire, the system will be broke. Yes, you can always raise taxes to pay ss, but I prefer to keep the govt out of my wallet. I am already paying into a system that I will never benefit from. Admittedly, I won’t need it.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:43 pm#116 – Hey there Ryan. I’m starting to see that it is just bad parenting. Or, more like, neglectful parenting. For some, it’s like getting puppies. Puppies are cute, like babies, but after a while, for some, they lose their novelty.
I think parents who are undereducated will unfortunately have children that will continue that trend. Especially when kids put more value on MONEY than on EDUCATION. Hell, kids can get out of high school and, if they are savvy and well spoken, can start making money in sales and never need any further education. Children today put more emphasis on the dollar and don’t seem to care about the person.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:45 pm#123 – what do you refer to when you say Reicht? Was that Hitler’s political party or something?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:45 pm#125 A nation has to care about its people before its dollars. Greed is a sin for those who are into religion. Jesus wouldn’t have two cars and my guess, he would give up his fish too. Greed is ugly.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:46 pm“Your religion is trashing religion and wearing thin on me these days”
FQ, I can understand your not enjoying lectures. The fact that you are either unwilling or unable to respond to anything I typed above at least faintly suggests to me that, much like our Leadless Fearer, GWB, you spent most lectures in the back row of the class, giggling and passing notes about that night’s kegger — rather than asking questions or actively learning.
But I digress. Your statement above is false. I do not have a religion. Moreover, I do not trash religions, nor do I /prevent/ others from practicing /their/ religion(s). Nope. You are wrong. Next empty taunt?
Ah, ain’t that America?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:47 pmNo it has not. The Director of the Social Security program has already come out and said Bush is full of crap. Considering you guys own the House and Senate, you should have been able to pass your reform. IF IT WAS NEEDED.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:47 pmYou shouldn’t admit to being that stupid.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:48 pmFair Question, your talking points contain the same ambiguity Bush uses. What constitutes victory in Iraq? What is victory in the War on Terror. You assclowns just keep repeating the mantra, We Must Win. Win What? Just kill ‘em all, right. Simple-minded peon.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:49 pm#125:
Hey Fair Question: Do you have anyone in your family that needs that check to survive?
If so, I want you to tell them to their face that you hope Social Security fails, so they can move in with you and start eating cat food to survive.
Cause that’s the compassionate Christian thing to do, right?
Hypocrite. God wants you take care of his children; help the downtrodden. Instead, you want them to sit in poverty cause you don’t want to pay your fair share.
The hypocrisy amazes me everytime I hear a “Christian” speak this way about liberal programs that are trying to help the poor.
I’m going to borrow a line from your side:
With regards to Social Security, What Would Jesus Do?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:51 pm#132 Ambiguity – YES. He says really – nothing. It is just rambling and his hate list. He offers no facts or arguments, just silly rants. Yawn.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:51 pm#120 – I’ll take issue with one point.
Busing did not destroy segregation. Deseg is a nice word for busing, but it’s not true. As a child of busing, I know what it did. It was a social experiment that attempted to raise the standards for inner city communities by bringing in suburban communities. In fact, it did the exact opposite and brought down the average standard for both communities.
Busing defied logic. If I live in a town, I am entitled to stay in that town to go to school. I have no problem letting inner city children in our schools, but they will follow our rules.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:51 pm125)
The social security system will only break if we keep taking the SS money and putting it into WAR. STOP STEALING MY SS MONEY YOU THEIF!
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:53 pmSo Fair Question, do you mind the gubbmint dipping into your wallet to fund no-bid contracts for the likes of Halliburton? How about other corporate welfare like off-shore headquarters?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:53 pm“Greed is a sin for those who are into religion. Jesus wouldn’t have two cars and my guess, he would give up his fish too.”
If you care about seperation of church and state, I would argue I have every right to be greedy.
Keep the govt out of my wallet!
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:54 pm#123 – what do you refer to when you say Reicht? Was that Hitler’s political party or something?
Comment by Fair Question
OMG
Leave this site right now. Go to google and start reading.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:54 pm“Busing defied logic.”
Wow, I’m confused. I thought /you/ were the one who defied logic.
Oh. Wait. No. You’re the one who invokes logic but has no idea what it is. Sorry about that.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:54 pmFunny, I’ve directly repudiated (here’s the definition for you, FQ: repudiate Fair Question’s ‘arguments’ three or 4 times today alone.
I’ve even directly asked him questions. And instead of responding to me, he just moves on to the next right wing talking point.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:54 pmAhhhhh, the old they can come here and obey our rules, but I;m not going there and obeying their rules. Hypocrytical racist moron.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:55 pm#137 – somebody has to rebuild and it’s not going to happen for free. AND thanks to liberal crying over Halliburton, we’re now stuck with the UAE.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:55 pmGreed is not against the law. It is imoral. It just makes you an a$$hole, but you are already an a$$hole, so feel free.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:56 pmI would argue I have every right to be greedy.
Keep the govt out of my wallet!
Comment by Fair Question
Wow I missed that part in the New Testement… ever hear of that hippy called Jesus?
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:57 pmOnce again, we wouldn’t be paying for it if we hadn’t attacked a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:58 pmI suspect FQ’s “logic” is not logic at all, but is really the same thing as the “common sense” my mother invoked when she voted for GWB.
Ah, Mom. And just the other day she admitted she couldn’t wait for Bush to leave office …
OK, FQ, there’s a real easy bone for you — start making comments about my mom. Go on, I know you want to!
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:58 pm#24 I like to see a post on your ID assertion; I could see that number being true (maybe) if ID were taught in Philosophy, Comparative Rel. Studies, etc, but NOT science classes because, as has been stated ad naseum, it DOES NOT meet the Scientific Method.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:59 pmBusing did not destroy segregation. Deseg is a nice word for busing, but it’s not true. As a child of busing, I know what it did. It was a social experiment that attempted to raise the standards for inner city communities by bringing in suburban communities. In fact, it did the exact opposite and brought down the average standard for both communities.
Busing defied logic. If I live in a town, I am entitled to stay in that town to go to school. I have no problem letting inner city children in our schools, but they will follow our rules.
I’ll give you credit, you ‘kinda’ responded to one of posts, finally.
Although you did cherry pick just one item.
That being said. You think segregation is a viable social policy, still? That’s what this sounds like.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:59 pm#137 – somebody has to rebuild and it’s not going to happen for free. AND thanks to liberal crying over Halliburton, we’re now stuck with the UAE.
Comment by Fair Question
If FDR was in charge Americans would be getting jobs doing the work instead of terrorist backers like UAE
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:59 pm#142 – I am not a racist. (FYI – A sign of a racist is someone who calls someone a racist.)
But, I’ve been to the hood and it ain’t a nice place. Unlike the elitist liberals who have no idea what the inner cities are actually like (but decide policy for them anyway), I know what’s it like and if you want the best for your children, you don’t want them going to school there.
March 3rd, 2006 at 1:59 pm“Greed is a sin for those who are into religion. Jesus wouldn’t have two cars and my guess, he would give up his fish too.â€
If you care about seperation of church and state, I would argue I have every right to be greedy.
Keep the govt out of my wallet!
Keep your religous morals out of my wife’s uterus.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:00 pm“AND thanks to liberal crying over Halliburton, we’re now stuck with the UAE.”
OK, my gall bladder just ruptured from laughter. Gotta get outta here.
“Y’know (smacks forehead) I had PLUMB FERGOT ABOUT that ports thing bein’ somethin’ thought up by them Liberals. That must be why GWB is fighting for it SO HARD …
Oh, wait.
You mean GWB’s not a Liberal?
Gosh, I’m so confused. I musta flunked logic.”
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:01 pm#142 – I am not a racist. (FYI – A sign of a racist is someone who calls someone a racist.)
Totally rediculous… did that come from your book of “signs”?
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:01 pmHah ah aha ha ah ah ah ah ha. Oh my side aches.
Do the elitist liberals hang out with the conservative democrats.
Ahhhh, the old I know you are but what am I tactic.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:02 pm#143 That’s the best non-sequitur I’ve heard all week.
#138 Promoting greed is removing religion.
#125 Social Security didn’t fail (despite conservatives’ best efforts to make it fail) and the assumptions about population growth, worker-to-retiree ratio, etc were remarkably accurate. The real failure is Reagan’s deficits. If we didn’t have the national debt there would be no danger of insolvency. Perhaps the crippling national debt is part of the “starve the beast” strategy.
Besides, Bush says the economy is doing great. That would suggest the Great Society is a success.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:03 pm#149 – it is not segregation to go to the school in your town. I think efforts have to be made to improve the inner city schools and aid the black community because they really need help. By aid, I don’t mean just writing a check. I have siblings who teach in inner cities and it’s horrible and sad. It’s the Katrina of education.
I don’t have the solution, but a good starting point is to have an honest debate without calling each other racists. Bush’s Leave No Child Behind isn’t helping either.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:03 pm“the elitist liberals who have no idea what the inner cities are actually like”
… are they like my elitist liberal friends who can only live in the worst sections of town with multiple roommates because that’s all they can afford, what with them having actual scruples and all?
If we all could just FUCK HUMANISM we’d be living in Fat City, I tell you what.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:04 pm#142 – I am not a racist. (FYI – A sign of a racist is someone who calls someone a racist.)
But, I’ve been to the hood and it ain’t a nice place. Unlike the elitist liberals who have no idea what the inner cities are actually like (but decide policy for them anyway), I know what’s it like and if you want the best for your children, you don’t want them going to school there.
How can one person be wrong so many times and use so few words?
Funny. We’re elitist cause we want to help people less fortunate than ourselves. Versus the compassionate WASP conservative approach of letting them fend for themselves, rot, and die?
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:04 pmBut, I’ve been to the hood and it ain’t a nice place. Unlike the elitist liberals who have no idea what the inner cities are actually like (but decide policy for them anyway), I know what’s it like and if you want the best for your children, you don’t want them going to school there.
Comment by Fair Question
I grew up poor right next to “black town”…
I went to the poor peoples schools…
They are bad places because no ones does anything about it. Where are all the people going into the inner cities and spending the money it would take to make the poor people feel like they have at least a chance?
I got SOOO lucky growing up…most of my peers did not. If I didnt happen to get some access to a PC growing up I would be working a shit job hating my life looking for some drugs or something.
That is the future you republicans have given most of us… and the blacks have it even worse.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:05 pm#152 – if you live in a blue state, you have nothing to fear. AND it’s a stretch that the Court would even overturn Roe. If they did, after the kicking and screaming, you would realize the world’s not over.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:06 pmBush’s Leave No Child Behind isn’t helping either.
-Fair Question
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:07 pm
Sounds like a social program to me. Maybe we are making some headway here.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:07 pm#152 – if you live in a blue state, you have nothing to fear. AND it’s a stretch that the Court would even overturn Roe. If they did, after the kicking and screaming, you would realize the world’s not over.
Comment by Fair Question
And if you are in a red state then your religious beliefs will be violated by the christians…
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:08 pmYou started the name calling here. DO you prefer d!ckweed to racist?
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:08 pm#163 – a social program with honest debate. The problems in the inner cities will not be solved solely with a check.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:08 pmIt took you 157 posts to finally admit that Bush may have done some stupid stuff. But, that combined with the social program is a good start.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:10 pm#163 – a social program with honest debate. The problems in the inner cities will not be solved solely with a check.
Comment by Fair Question
They wont be solved with “faith” either… nor politics… ONLY reason…you know science ..engineering… statistics …
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:10 pmIt was nice debating with you all, but I am going out to enjoy some Florida (oh no – didn’t mean to bring up bad memories !) sun.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:10 pmFQ – “(FYI – A sign of a racist is someone who calls someone a racist.)”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
So a sign of a terrorist is someone who calls someone a terrorist? That is beyond stupid.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:10 pm169)
Nice debating you also… somehow you ended up a little better at the end than the beginning …most trolls only get uglier..
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:11 pmDid I ever say write a check. Nope. Unlike Bush thinks, you can’t just throw money at problems.
Now, you wanna stop with the childish name calling and start debating?
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:11 pm#152 – if you live in a blue state, you have nothing to fear. AND it’s a stretch that the Court would even overturn Roe. If they did, after the kicking and screaming, you would realize the world’s not over.
I don’t live in a blue state. I’m in Ohio. Care to rationalize that, now?
It’s simple. Religous morals should not influence secular laws. Got it?
If you don’t approve of abortion, fine. DON’T DO IT! But don’t tell my wife, sister, daughter, or niece that she can’t. Got it?
Same thing with civil unions for homosexuals. If you don’t want to get hitched to a guy, fine. Don’t. But don’t tell that monogomous couple that has been together for 20 years that their love isn’t as strong or viable as that dysfunctional man and wife you see on Cops.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:11 pmYes, voter fraud and election rigging are bad memories. I agree with you there too.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:12 pmGood one.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:13 pmI wouldn’t kick and scream. I would jump for joy. You would lose all of the moderate fence sitters that only vote republican becaseu they are against abortion.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:15 pmI’m sad. Our play toy left.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:19 pmTo Fair Question,
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:27 pmIf you believe our nation’s future is so dependent on “winning” in Iraq, I assume that you are now serving in the armed forces or are soon to enlist in the armed forces. After all, if the threat of Islamic fundamentalism is so great to our national well-being, who wouldn’t want to enlist?
Man, this train wreck is hard to ignore. You know those times when traffic has slowed, and the CHP is waving you through…You can’t help but peek at the grizly carnage of the poor sob who’se car is wrecked, hoping not to see any blood.
That’s what our new wack-a-mole boy FQ is like. I want to ignore him, but it’s almost too hard to not take that peek.
anyway. Many fine retorts from one and all. I can’t believe I’m wishing that my conversational opponents here would be more the level of timy aphrodite instead of the new wack-a-mole. That’s SAD.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:27 pmA few quick points:
Thomas Paine was not a Christian; he, like Franklin, was an atheist.
Social Security is the most successful government program in our history. Worker to retiree has nothing to do with its success. How much money is coming in is what counts. According to the CBO, the program will be able to pay 80% of promised benefits about 45 years from now. Don’t listen to these baseless arguments. The nutcases hate SS because it’s socialism. Anything public is bad to these people because, well, they hate people.
The Democratic Party deserves a large share of the blame for racial inequality. It established a base in the South in the 19th century by appealing to racist sentiments. It has been called “the Party of Slavery”.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:29 pm180)
Diest
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:37 pmI am just pointing out that failure is not really an option in Iraq. I fear that if we lose in Iraq, the left’s beat Bush bash celebration might eventually be interrupted by a modern day Hiroshima if the terrorists in Iraq have their way. — Fair Question
*************************
Do you not see the paradox of your own argument? Even our own intelligence community has found that our attack on Iraq has fueled feelings of animosity towards the United States throughout the Arab world — and this is more likely to increase terrorism rather than lessen it.
Can you not see that this argument results in a vicious circle? We attacked Iraq on the grounds that Hussein was suspected of possessing WMD — suspicions based largely on the claims of somewhat-less-than-credible individuals such as Ahmed Chalabi and an anonymous individual who goes by the pseudonym “Curveball” despite reports which cast doubt on or contradicted these claims. Perhaps if any such stockpiles had ever been found, we might have exonerated ourselves — but to date, no WMDs have been uncovered in Iraq. This has damaged our credibility throughout the Middle East, and the sort of antipathy which our actions have helped to fuel unfortunately lends itself all too well to terrorism. Your argument suggests that this war must be won at virtually any cost — but if we’re facing an even greater threat from terrorism now, it’s at least in part because we launched this war in the first place. Your argument suggests that we must fight all the harder in order to make certain that we aren’t attacked again — but what we’ve been seeing so far actually suggests that we’ll only have to keep fighting harder and harder to fight off terrorism because our own actions are inciting the very emotions which contribute to terrorism.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:47 pmDon’t know if you would call it enlisting.
http://www.sss.gov/
Writings on the wall FQ. Need more troops for the terra war.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:49 pmDoubt “they” tell you this before elections.
Just a note: Benjamin Franklin was not an atheist. By his own words:
He was not a Christian apparently, and many claim his beliefs more closely resemble those of Unitarians, but they weren’t around in his day.
March 3rd, 2006 at 2:56 pmNot everyone agrees with this man. Of course, I am sure no one here will be reporting on military personnel who beleive the war can be won. — Fair Question
**********************
Well, according to a recent news report, 72% of the military personnel currently based in Iraq believe that the United States should leave within the next 12 months. I don’t know about you, but I don’t think that they’d have been likely to give that response if they were all that fired-up about our chances of winning. Not to mention the fact that they’re the ones who are actually there and seeing it first hand. If the US military learned anything of value from Vietnam, one thing they should have learned is that the men on the front lines are at least marginally more accurate judges of how the war is truly going than those who are watching it from comfortable offices well out of harm’s way.
March 3rd, 2006 at 3:09 pmWar on Terrorism…
Once again, somebody’s not communicating to the guy at the top! Or else he just ain’t listenin’!…
March 3rd, 2006 at 3:43 pm#173
If you don’t approve of abortion, fine. DON’T DO IT! But don’t tell my wife, sister, daughter, or niece that she can’t. Got it?
That’s like saying, if you don’t approve of murder, fine. DON’T DO IT! Abortion is killing. Its that simple. And, I don’t believe in the death penalty either for criminals so don’t even think of throwing that in my face. Liberals should force the rest of America on their beliefs either.
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:03 pmWhat’s the rank below a one-star general? I think we will learn of Caslen’s demotion soon — or at least a “relocation.”
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:05 pm“That’s like saying, if you don’t approve of murder, fine. DON’T DO IT! Abortion is killing. Its that simple. And, I don’t believe in the death penalty either for criminals so don’t even think of throwing that in my face. Liberals should force the rest of America on their beliefs either. Comment by . “
Sweetie, that’s your opinion based on your religious fantasies and preconceptions. Calling abortion ‘murder’ is like calling Cheney a murderer because he shoots birds. The term murder is used to define the killing of a functional human being. It’s why pulling the plug on Schiavo was not murder. This is a ’scientific’ issue pumpkin, not a religious one. Just because you think the earth is flat, and donkeys can talk – please don’t subject the rest of us to your ignorance. Although I forgive you for doing so. Clearly that’s what you must do in order to feel morally superior. I forgive you for your arrogance and ignorance sweetie.
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:11 pmAnother recent result of fueling Moslem animosity. Students in UNC Chapel Hill common area have just been run down by one guy named Mohammed in an SUV. Pure hate.
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:12 pmhttp://www.wral.com/news/7651436/detail.html
Who was that ‘Fair Question’ partisan anyway? I didn’t see anything fair or questioning in his/her little tirades. Although I do think it’s fair to ask him if he/she believes being so hateful and angry has brought him happiness in their lives. I forgive you ‘Fair Question’ for all of your hate speech. It’s often the last resort of the desperate, the ignorant and the fearful. Poor thing, you have my pity.
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:14 pm#187, there are scientific and moral and religious disagreements on the point of your argument. One must not impose his will upon others.
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:20 pmConsider this — a doctor who performs an abortion can be sentenced to 5 years in prison – or a woman who has one can be sentenced to five years in prison — yet, a person who kills a 5 year old child deservedly gets life in prison, if not the death sentence.
In an ideal world, there would be no abortions, but life is messy. If all abortions become illegal, that will only force them underground and the most vulnerable will die – a result hard to justify.
More importantly, if all abortions are outlawed, what will become of those unwanted children? We don’t even fund Head start and health care for the ones already born.
One final argument: most anti-choice people make exceptions in extreme cases — my question to them is why should the “innocent” offspring of an incestuous union or a rape be aborted? Who is to be punished?
The choice of abortion is a complicated, emotionally wrenching, decision often with lifetime ramifications — for anyone to impose his view on another regarding this most difficult choice is uncharitable and unconscionable.
188, the rank beneath a one star general is a bird colonel.
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:20 pmI’m sure that Colonel Caslen will enjoy the relative quite in the Arctic after this.
How did a topic on the Pentagon deputy turn into a social argument?
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:24 pm“How did a topic on the Pentagon deputy turn into a social argument? Comment by Marie”
It’s because the partisan brain always changes to the topic to a point that is either vague or not as uncomfortable to them. The pro-security republican partisans are uncomfortable with the fact that despite having 100% control of the military, the situation in Iraq, and for the most part the ‘press’, they’re still losing. They always believed that Vietnam failed because of the liberals – so the ‘messy’ reality of Iraq is more than their partisan brain can handle. It’s spinning the rhetoric of desperation so they don’t have to face the truth that the world is complicated, messy and rarely black and white.
This is where the extreme of the rightwing always falls down. They can’t deal with they grey nature of the world, and human nature as it actually exists. They’re so indoctrinated into religion and the fantasies of the religious doctrine – that the real world scares them. Poor things, I feel great pity for them.
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:29 pmUnfair questions, this I posted on another blog about My military expierences and views of chicken-hawks, which you are one of.
I stood in the desert after the end of combat in 1991 and looked around at the death and destruction that we had done to so many of saddam’s troops, one scene still haunts me, It was where a low ranking enlisted soldier had been captured by an Iraqi republican guards officer and senior enlisted, they shot the soldier in the back of the head, and almost immediately were killed by some sort of US cluster bomb. I thought it was ironic that they killed a man for trying to escape the Hell that is war but ended up being killed almost in the same moment, I thought it was poetic justice until I remembered Pvt Eddie Slovic from WW2, something changed that day, I started seeing the ghost images of the “enemy” in their fighting positions, the caves they dug in the ground to escape the bombing by the US Air Force, the bomb craters next to tanks where they died, I could imagine in my mind the horror they must have felt being bombed from the air but if they tried to get away they would end up shot.
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:30 pmAs bad as the pics of Abu Ghraib look the horror is much greater because the camera never was focused in the interrogation chambers where the real horrors are done.
I have no patience for the chicken-hawks who shill for others to go into these corners of Hell so they can be safe in their minds, because that is where their fear lives.
GLENN #98 I do. It occurred to me how comical it is to hear somebody raving about how evil & vicious progressives are, that 50-60% of the population can be hell-bent on destroying the country and its morality yet somehow they survive. I guess it must be due to the good works of the corporations, the churches and the NFL. It’s making me ill, though, to read all of the comments by good people trying in vain to argue with this dope. Use your voices & your energy wisely people!
Sometimes I think it’s all just tactics to get us riled up so we can’t do anything effective, like throw Bush/Cheney out of office.
The comment right after yours is priceless. Might be the funniest one yet. Keep ‘em coming FQ!
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:39 pm“What’s the rank below a one-star general?”
I am not sure but it sure stinks.
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:42 pm#189
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:44 pmI am sorry that you believe the things you do and I will pray for your soul. This is not a scientific issue as you believe it to be. Use some logic for a change and you might suprise yourself. If doctors can save premature babies born much earlier than late-term abortions occur, how can abortion not be murder. Whether you are killing a fetus, embryo or baby, it is still murder. When the point of the instrument is piercing the partially born baby in an abortion, you tell me if there is no pain? I believe that all life is sacred, especially the unborn. In those cases of incest and rape, wouldn’t it be easier to try to prevent those crimes from happening? One wonders how much the porn industry and Hollywood have affected how men treat women these days. Roe v. Wade will be overturned in the near future and there is nothing your side can do to stop it.
#184 Hardy, Thanks, I stand corrected. And Glenn, yes, a Deist is not an atheist. But they weren’t Christians. (I was right about that at least.)
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:50 pm“Roe v. Wade will be overturned in the near future and there is nothing your side can do to stop it.”
Well, maybe yes, maybe no. Even if the current Supreme Court does overturn Roe V. Wade, the GOP and Bush have lost the American people for the next 20 years. There will be other Supreme Court justices appointed and just as you are hoping that the current court will vote your way, eventually freedom will win and the religios will be tossed out and abortion legalized once again.
Funny how that works, isn’t it? You cannot possibly control everybody forever.
March 3rd, 2006 at 4:57 pm“In those cases of incest and rape, wouldn’t it be easier to try to prevent those crimes from happening?”
… by traveling backwards in time?
March 3rd, 2006 at 5:07 pm“This is not a scientific issue as you believe it to be. Use some logic for a change and you might su[r]prise yourself.”
Okay, let me try to parse this one: it’s not a scientific issue, but we need to use logic. Do I understand those sentences correctly?
Okay.
Okay. I’ll be back. I have to go pound a nine-inch nail into my skull.
March 3rd, 2006 at 5:10 pmFairy Questions,
“Greed is a sin for those who are into religion. Jesus wouldn’t have two cars and my guess, he would give up his fish too.â€
If you care about seperation of church and state, I would argue I have every right to be greedy.
Keep the govt out of my wallet!
You have just summed up the remaining 34 % of those Bush sycophants who claim some ideological affinity with conservatism. It’s all about greed. The rest is just cover and flim-flam. Except for the racism. That’s sincere too.
March 3rd, 2006 at 5:18 pmWhen the point of the instrument is piercing the partially born baby in an abortion, you tell me if there is no pain?
Comment by . — March 3, 2006 @ 4:44 pm
“Partially born”? Talk about a spin. Calling the fetus in the womb “partially born”, is like calling you “partially dead”.
And about the fetus feeling pain: Studies have shown pain-processing centers in the brain do not develop until the last months of pregnancy.
And all this has nothing to do with the topic of the thread, which is the Pentagon’s Deputy Counterterrorism Director admitting the US’ war on terror is all but hopelessly lost.
March 3rd, 2006 at 5:19 pmThey lose the idea that they are “winning” the war on terrorism, because a Military high ranking Officer lets slip that the terrorists are being created faster than we can capture or kill them.
So they try to derail the thread to abortion an old trick of the wingnuts…..
March 3rd, 2006 at 5:34 pm“I am sorry that you believe the things you do and I will pray for your soul. Comment by .”
That’s really sweet, and I’ll ‘pray’ for your sanity pumpkin. And I forgive you for your arrogance as to think that somehow you’d have a better idea of what ‘my soul’ is or what it needs than I do. It’s funny how the fool always tries to lead the wise. By the way, have any of those talking donkeys from the bible been telling you this is not a scientific issue? Or how about the biblical sages who told you it was OK to have slaves, beat your children, sell them into slavery and sell of daughters like livestock? Would that be the ‘god’ you pray to pumpkin?
“This is not a scientific issue as you believe it to be. Comment by .”
Funny, that’s what the pope said when he was confronted with the earth being round. It’s apparently not even a religious issue. I did a little research, and it turns out that abortion is not ‘criminal’ offense in that Fantasy Fairy tale you call your bible. In fact, attacking a woman and destroying a fetus is considered to be a ‘property’ offense, like taking a cow. It only has monetary expenses if it was done by someone without the permission of the mother.
It’s OK pumpkin, I’m not surprised you don’t really know anything about religion – I’m not much of a fan of all of that nonsense either. I can’t really blame you for not reading it.
“Use some logic for a change and you might suprise yourself. If doctors can save premature babies born much earlier than late-term abortions occur, how can abortion not be murder. Comment by .”
I was using logic sweetie, you just don’t have enough understanding for what logic is to recognize it. That’s what happens when you’re taught as a child to simply ‘believe’ and to not think for yourself. You lose the ability to do so pumpkin. But what I’d like is for you to attempt to understand what logic is, before you recommend others to use it. Otherwise it sounds silly and hypocritical coming from you. So can you give it a try pumpkin?
You’ve mistaken what a ‘doctor’ can do with what ’science’ can do. Science can also mix cat DNA with human DNA, but does this make the product a human? The reality is that if a doctor ‘delivers’ a premature baby, it will die without technology. It cannot live on its own, it is not a developed human being. It might or might not live with the aid of technology, but that doesn’t make it a human being in the scientific sense now does it? Any more than Terri Schiavo was considered a human being under the law or science.
But then again, I’m talking science to someone who probably thinks Blalaam’s donkey actually spoke hebrew. I know it’s a stretch for you to discuss things rationally or logically pumpkin, but I’m here if you’re willing to give it a try.
“Whether you are killing a fetus, embryo or baby, it is still murder. Comment by .”
Now murder is described in the dictionary as:
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
So do you really believe that doctors are unlawfully (now remember the constitution sweetie) killing a person with malice? If so, then pumpkin you’re still living in that flat earth fantasy world you were raised on.
See, just because you call something murder doesn’t make it so pumpkin. That’s why language has specific agreed upon definitions. Just because you and the other fantasy believers – who accept stories of talking donkeys – wish to incorrectly use a term, doesn’t make your incorrect usage valid. But it does make you look a bit ignorant, unworldly, unsophisticated and a bit naive pumpkin. May I recommend a desktop, or pocket dictionary? Or perhap a basic book on ‘reason and logic’ and how to apply it? It might help you out in the future pumpkin.
“When the point of the instrument is piercing the partially born baby in an abortion, you tell me if there is no pain? Comment by .”
Well first of all, the handling of late term abortion is already highly regulated pumpkin. You’re like bush arguing with himself about fuel efficiency. You both demostrate a complete lack of understanding on the topic you rant about pumpkin. See a ‘partially born’ baby as you call it, scientifically and rationally known as a ‘late term abortion’ is already highly regulated, and illegal in much of the country.
As for feeling ‘pain’, well that depends on the definition of pain and how developed the fetus is. As I understand it, the primitive parts of the brain are active
“I believe that all life is sacred, especially the unborn. Comment by .”
So that means you think that Bush is wrong for shooting birds? That’s what ‘all life’ means, right? Or are you saying all human life? Does that mean human life consisting of a single or multiple cells? Why don’t you fight for the right of the lowly skin cell while you’re at it to not have to be sloughed off and killed?
Pumpkin, the world is more complicated and more sophisticated than your argument can possible cope with. Poor thing, you religious types are so in over your head when you talk about ‘morality’. You just don’t have a good framework or a good consistent grasp of what it means to even begin the subject matter.
In those cases of incest and rape, wouldn’t it be easier to try to prevent those crimes from happening?
“One wonders how much the porn industry and Hollywood have affected how men treat women these days. Roe v. Wade will be overturned in the near future and there is nothing your side can do to stop it. Comment by .”
You mean versus 100 years ago when women couldn’t own property, couldn’t vote, were allowed to be beaten and raped by their husbands, forced into marriage by their families? Or do you mean how women who were ‘impure’ were forced into prostitution, and given no legal or personal means to protect themselves at that time?
Sweetie, before you to talking about ‘morality’, you might research that yourself a bit. Society is much more moral to and with women now than it ever has been. It’s the partisan extremists like you that still abuse and mistreat women pumpkin. But I forgive you. Clearly you believe you’re doing the right thing, even if you’re too naive, ignorant and arrogant to understand what that is, or what you’re saying. Partisan brain makes brillian men and women into fools, so what do you have pumpkin ;)
March 3rd, 2006 at 6:23 pmToo true. But its not just the trolls here…its the republican playbook for the coming elections. South Dakota wasn’t by accident. In Wisconsin, rethugs just put in a bill to ban gay marrige- it is expected to reach debate around July-August. This wasn’t by accident. Expect gun issues as soon as the cantidates are chosen.
March 3rd, 2006 at 6:25 pmAnd please note everyone, that “.” has now admitted that all life is sacred, so therefore bush has ‘murdered’ all of those innocent iraqis making him immoral. See “.”, it wasn’t hard for you to finally recognize that partisan republicans are immoral, it just took you trying to divert the thread on abortion for you to finally admit this about your own values, and the values of your beloved president.
So I forgive you “.” for trying to derail the thread, saying ignorant, lying and hateful immoral things. And I forgive you for supporting an immoral group of politicians and ‘religious’ leaders. You’ve clearly been lead astray, and don’t have the sophistication to know it. Poor pumpkin, you have my pity, and my forgiveness.
March 3rd, 2006 at 6:25 pm“I Will lose 10 men for every 1 of yours, yet in the end, you will lose the war and I will win.”- Ho Chi Minh.
March 3rd, 2006 at 6:34 pmI think christianity is bunk, but since these extremists seem to only live within the framework of its fantasies, here’s a couple of gems on abortion and the bible.
The only mention of the ‘act’ of abortion can be found in Exodus 21:22-25:
The interesting thing is that the bible consistenly orders the death penalty for murder of a human being, but not for the abortion of a fetus. And in fact the person who aborts the fetus is only forced to pay a monitary fee if this occured by force.
So then if aborting a fetus isn’t killing a life according to exodus, when does life begin?
Because they’re so desperate for a biblical basis for their beliefs on abortions, these whackos cite obscure and unrelated passages, while ignoring the specific religious definition of what ‘life’ is, and how an abortion is viewed in terms of that.
And then there’s the issue of the fact that who gives a rats a$$ what these religious whackos think. The reality is that I should no more have to live under their religious bigotry, nonsensical attitudes, than I should have to live under ‘Shariah’ law. These extremists are so captivated by the fantasy world, they $hit on everyone around them in the real world on their way towards an idealized utopia. It’s just like the Stalinists and Nazis who had no room for differences in opinion.
So “.” and the rest of you religious extremists. As much as you don’t deserve it, I forgive you for your hatred of me and anyone else that thinks for themselves. Although it’s clear you do not possess this capacity, I hope someday you’ll find a way to develop a rational and reasonable mind. And until then, I forgive you for the harm you inflict on others out of your selfish and ignorant world view.
March 3rd, 2006 at 6:35 pmThe greatest purveyor of violence in the world today is America- Martin Luther King Jr.
March 3rd, 2006 at 6:36 pmThe Rove plan for this election might be derailed by the insurgency in Iraq and many of the other mismanaged administration fiascos. Blaming it on clinton and the dems won’t work and this election will occur after another Hurricane season has passed. Mother Nature may have more to say about the november ballots than Karl Rove
March 3rd, 2006 at 7:07 pmI am just pointing out that failure is not really an option in Iraq.
Yeah, but reality appears to pointing out that victory, however you wish to define it, is not an option either. Your merging of defeat in Iraq with an existetial threat to the US in the form of OBL is as lame as Bush and Cheneys were. Get a new talking point, that one has expired.
March 3rd, 2006 at 7:09 pmI am just pointing out that failure is not really an option in Iraq.
If failure was not an option then why did Rumsfeld or Bush not plan for the follow on to combat as the military leaders warned them instead or silencing those leaders who have made a career out of knowing how to win both the war and peace after?
Funny they believed a convicted felon(In Jordan a Ally) and ignored their own anaylsists in the CIA. Anyone who claims that an invading army will be welcomed with open arms either has an agenda or needs some serious mental health treatment. A cursury look at the past of Iraq especially the british expierence after WW1 would show that Iraqi’s have little tolerance for foriegners and work hard to push them out. So if this administration was as hell bent on invasion as the facts now show, and they did not plan for the post combat phase, either they must have wanted failure, or their incompetant.
March 3rd, 2006 at 7:24 pmFQ- you might want to speak to a professional about that Projection Syndrome.
March 3rd, 2006 at 7:25 pma lot of people project. Whats the deal there? some serious self observation/ evaluation is required to alter that mindlessness. Check it.
necocon vs. mic! these is our sources? wtf!
March 3rd, 2006 at 8:01 pmInteresting thread everyone > wish I could have been involved today but had work to do! As for Iraq debacle: the fiasco is NOT winnable, but the OIL CARTELS drool for Iraq’s petroleum, so Bush will never pull the troops out unless the Congress forces him to or impeaches him!
March 3rd, 2006 at 8:18 pm#193- Is that like “Colonel Sanders”? Joking here, folks. ;) Oh, and the Brig. Gen. should avoid flying on any small planes for awhile…
March 3rd, 2006 at 9:56 pm[...] Losing more American troops needlessly and perpetuating the losses because your dumbass Preznit can’t pull his head out of his ass. [...]
March 4th, 2006 at 12:23 am[...] Losing more American troops needlessly and perpetuating the losses because your dumbass Preznit can’t pull his head out of his ass. [...]
March 4th, 2006 at 12:23 amI sure hope the Bushites aren’t counting on our fine military…
…to kill all one-billion Muslims…
…Yeah I know that all Muslims aren’t terrorists…
…but I tend to think most of them sympathize more with Osama, than Bushiva…
…unless we have REGIME CHANGE and fast…
…we’re gonna be in deep financial and security caca for a long time…
March 4th, 2006 at 11:36 amI can’t believe I’m wishing that my conversational opponents here would be more the level of timy aphrodite instead of the new wack-a-mole. That’s SAD.
Comment by kindness — March 3, 2006 @ 2:27 pm
I-RIGHT-I went over to NoPC if you really get a serious troll craving… :)
As for the rumor – IRI was banned just as the Tom Daschle forum was posted. Doesn’t know if it’s for good or just to calm the angry mob at Judd’s gate.
Worfeus told me he was banned for posting too much. He’s gone over to http://www.LydiaCornell.com if anyone misses him. I don’t think he’ll be back here.
And I’m going to take a break for a while…
See you guys around!
March 4th, 2006 at 8:52 pm[...] via Think Progress, Terrorist growth overtakes U.S. efforts Thirty new terrorist organizations have emerged since the September 11, 2001, attacks, outpacing U.S. efforts to crush the threat, said Brig. Gen. Robert L. Caslen, the Pentagon’s deputy director for the war on terrorism. “We are not killing them faster than they are being created,” Gen. Caslen told a gathering at the Woodrow Wilson Center yesterday, warning that the war could take decades to resolve. Gen. Caslen said that two years ago the Department of Defense had not settled on a clear definition of the nature of the war. Moreover, because each government department had its own perspective, “we all had different strategies,” he said. The Defense Department now has defined the nature of the war, he said. The enemy, he said, is “a transnational movement of extremist organizations, networks and individuals that use violence and terrorism as a means to promote their end.” It is not a global insurgency, the general said. “We do not go as far as to say it is a global insurgency, because it lacks a centralized command and control,” he said. Groups such as al Qaeda, though, are constantly trying to increase their capabilities, and in some cases are outstripping the United States, Gen. Caslen said. “We in the Pentagon are behind our adversaries in the use of communications — either to recruit or train,” he said. Compared with historical jihads, or enduring Muslim wars, this one “is accelerated because of its capability in communications.” The Pentagon official said Muslim thought ranges from secular and mainstream to extremist and intolerant. The takfir (infidel) view of the world that falls under the Salafist teachings of the Sunni sect — such as al Qaeda in Iraq — is an example of the extremist view that condones violence to accomplish ideological ends, he said. The general said the extremists’ goal is to remove U.S. troops from Iraq and establish a radical state under Shariah, or Islamic law, remove what they consider the apostate governments of Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Egypt, and destroy Israel. But the enemy has vulnerabilities. “The ideology is not popular among most, even Muslims,” he said. “We need to undermine support by amplifying the moderate forces and undermining the enemy’s repressive and corrupt behavior.” Posted by tangledwing Filed in News [...]
March 5th, 2006 at 5:52 amOriginally published at the American Thinker
Recently I wrote about a newly released study from the West Point Combating Terrorism Center. The CTC just released documents associated with a study on al-Qaeda. One of them was a letter described here.
March 5th, 2006 at 3:24 pmAs I read the letter, I couldn’t help but remember the comments bemoaning President Bush and his war on terror from the likes of Richard Clarke,
“I think he’s done a terrible job on the war against terrorism.â€
Michael Scheuer wrote an entire book called Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror. Hillary Clinton derided the President at Berkeley last month, making a joke about missing the tallest guy in Afghanistan, and attacking his management of the war on terror.
To his credit, Paul Pillar gets it right:
“Al Qaeda, although still a danger, has been badly damaged by the measures taken over the past two and a half years.â€
Although as Stephen Hayes of the Weekly Standard points out in his article “Paul Pillar Speaks, Again,†Mr. Pillar seems to be completely against the possibility of state sponsored terrorism.
So what was it about the letter that made me think of this esteemed crowd? Here is the description of the letter dated June 13th, 2002:
Synopsis: ‘Abd-al-Halim Adl vigoroulsy challenges the leadership of Osama Bin Laden and accuses him of being close-minded and oblivious to the great harm suffered by Al-Qa’ida in recent months. He writes to Mukhtar both to confront him for his complicity in these ill-conceived plans and to change Mukhtar’s thinking.
Key Themes: ‘Abd-al-Halim Adl writes a letter to his dear friend Mukhtar to challenge him for his role in the defeats that have befallen al-Qa’ida in the last six months, and to encourage him in his challenge to the management of Osama Bin Laden. The recent time period is one in which the movement has gone from “misfortune to disaster†with serious setbacks encountered in East Asia, Europe, America, the Horn of Africa, Yemen, the Gulf, and Morocco.
Excerpts from the letter:
…consider all the fatal and successive disasters that have afflicted us during a period of no more than six months.
…but today we are experiencing one setback after another and have gone from misfortune to disaster…
My beloved brother, stop all foreign actions, stop sending people to captivity, stop devising new operations, regardless of whether orders come or do not come from Abu-Abdallah (translator notes this is Bin Laden). Our adherents have lost confidence in us…
And my personal favorite:
…we only lost what we built in years…
No, this is not Michael Moore talking about the United States. It is apparently a senior member of al-Qaeda telling another that Bin Laden has ruined them.
Read it and thank the great Americans who are making this happen. Now to be clear, I don’t think this means the threat has gone away, but to say that President Bush’s war on terror has failed overlooks the facts at a fundamental level. The United States has had major successes in the disruption, destruction, and denial of al-Qaeda operations and this letter proves it. Clarke, Scheuer, and Senator Clinton are wrong.
Read it and thank the great Americans who are making this happen. Now to be clear, I don’t think this means the threat has gone away, but to say that President Bush’s war on terror has failed overlooks the facts at a fundamental level. The United States has had major successes in the disruption, destruction, and denial of al-Qaeda operations and this letter proves it. Clarke, Scheuer, and Senator Clinton are wrong.
Comment by Ray Robison #225
Raped,
I don’t know which side of Bush’s a*s you came from…
…but your powers of observation wreak of caca…
March 8th, 2006 at 12:35 pm[...] Pentagon s Deputy Counterterrorism Director: We re Losing Think Progress, DC – Mar 3, 2006 President Bush continues to claim we are winning the war on terrorism. From a February 9 speech: Despite the violence and the suffering [...]
March 8th, 2006 at 6:29 pm[...] Pentagon s Deputy Counterterrorism Director: We re Losing Think Progress, DC – Mar 3, 2006 President Bush continues to claim we are winning the war on terrorism. From a February 9 speech: Despite the violence and the suffering [...]
March 11th, 2006 at 11:00 amI would like to offer three important leasons I have learned from my observations of the current political process.
1.) The best way control public opinion is to distract the majority with non-issues (such as WMD in Iraq) and carefully inserted noble ideals, such as ‘fighting for freedom’ that nobody can argue with. This is easily done with a politically dichotomous population that does not think critically. i.e., you already have about half on your side no matter what you say.
2.)If your the leader and you want to push your agenda, it only undermines your cause to say anything pessemistic, regardless of reality. Which is why the current president, or any president, rarely owns up to mistakes or decisions that have turned out poorly.
3.) Political legitimacy is often used as a mirage for real legitimacy i.e., Congressional and UN resolutions approval for war in Iraq. Of course congress and the UN will vote for you if you only give them information that supports your side of the story. Remember, intelligence gathering and presentation is controlled by the President. Further, see point 1.
These tactics can turn out favorably when political leaders make good decisions, but are distarous when decision making is poor. In the latter case, they must continually weave a web of lies to cover the snowballing negative consequences.
Case in point:the’war on terrorsim’. We are in a country that has been proven to have nothing to do with terrorists or WMD, creating wide spread anti-americanism, and killing thousands of innocent people. While the terrorists of 911 are still at large, and benefit from increased recruitment and resentment. Meanwhile our soft white underbelly is exposed (lack of shipping security, dependency on oil, proliferation of nuclear material). We are now overextended and can do precious little to remedy this. The day will come when the resentfull will take advantage of these opportunities, because we cannot kill them all.
Thus, in this day and age the negative consequences are enormous, and unrealistic optimism coupled with idiotic decisions are a ticking nuclear time bomb. We desparately need leaders that make descisions based on justice, morality and reality, not economics, egocentricism and fantasy.
T
March 11th, 2006 at 12:42 pm[...] Pentagon s Deputy Counterterrorism Director: We re Losing Think Progress, DC – Mar 3, 2006 President Bush continues to claim we are winning the war on terrorism. From a February 9 speech: Despite the violence and the suffering [...]
March 13th, 2006 at 2:45 pm[...] Pentagon s Deputy Counterterrorism Director: We re Losing Think Progress, DC – Mar 3, 2006 President Bush continues to claim we are winning the war on terrorism. From a February 9 speech: Despite the violence and the suffering [...]
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