Murtha: The ‘Only People Who Want Us in Iraq’ are Iran, al Qaeda, and China
Murtha: The ‘Only People Who Want Us in Iraq’ are Iran, al Qaeda, and China
Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) today on CBS’s Face the Nation:
Let me tell you, the only people who want us in Iraq is Iran and al-Qaeda. I’ve talked to a top-level commander the other day, it was about two weeks ago, and he said China wants us there also. Why? Because we’re depleting our resources — our troop resources and our fiscal resources.
Murtha’s concerns are grounded in fact. The war in Iraq has allowed a historic expansion of Iranian influence westward, created a new haven and terrorist training ground for al Qaeda, and strained our military into a “‘thin green line‘ that could snap unless relief comes soon.”
UPDATE: Crooks & Liars has the video.
Full transcript below:
MURTHA: The public is way ahead of what’s going on in Washington. They no longer believe it. The troops themselves, 70 percent of the troops said we want to come home within a year. The only solution to this is to redeploy. Let me tell you, the only people who want us in Iraq is Iran and al-Qaeda. I’ve talked to a top-level commander the other day, it was about two weeks ago, and he said China wants us there also. Why? Because we’re depleting our resources, our troop resources and our fiscal resources.
SCHIEFFER: Now, Congressman, when you say al-Qaeda wants us there, why would al-Qaeda want us there?
MURTHA: Because we’re depleting our resources. A very small proportion of what’s going on in Iraq — they’ve diverted their attention away from the war on terrorism. The war on terrorism is worldwide. In Iraq, it’s a civil war. We have diverted ourselves away from that war on terrorism.
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Rep. Murtha is one of the last sane Congressmen in DC, but most do not listen to him or pay attention to his words of wisdom either!
March 5th, 2006 at 12:20 pmWell said John .Keep pushing ,may be more democrats will see the true in your enlighting statements and more democrats will act as the opposition party .
March 5th, 2006 at 12:29 pmLike in Nam we lost the war , but it’s hard for the military and the would be king to admit it. Man it’s their jobs .It’s time for congress to assert its authority and cut the funds for this unspeakable war and rip off those phony medals .
“Stay the Course!” For Whom?
Al Queda rejoices as we continue to bleed. Iran is being made the one great regional power because of our blunders. As for China, every day we grow smaller in power, wealth, influence, and respect the day grows closer that China becomes the new world superpower.
March 5th, 2006 at 12:43 pmKnightErrant,
I would argue that China is the superpower and we as a country are fools for not realizing that. We owe China Billions of dollars borrowed to fight this war. of course they want us to stay there. The longer we are there, the more money we borrow, the faster the country will be driven into depression when they call in their loans.
March 5th, 2006 at 12:59 pmIf only the Dems had some balls and would have backed Murtha full on back last fall. 2006 would be a done deal. Murtha was right back then, just like he is correct right now. China is laughing at us, just like how our Republican policy leaders were laughing at the Soviet Union in the 80s stuck in Afghanistan.
March 5th, 2006 at 1:00 pm“The public is way ahead of what’s going on in Washington.”
March 5th, 2006 at 1:03 pmThat statement says it all — Bush&Co like the “stay the course” approach, but that wore out a long time ago.
Staying the course simply means more of the same, while conditions grow worse.
John Murtha has lost his mind.
March 5th, 2006 at 1:09 pm[...] Let me tell you, the only people who want us in Iraq is Iran and al-Qaeda. I’ve talked to a top-level commander the other day, it was about two weeks ago, and he said China wants us there also. Why? Because we’re depleting our resources — our troop resources and our fiscal resources. [...]
March 5th, 2006 at 1:16 pmIt’s not just China.
Let me introduce you to the Shanghai Cooperation Organization
When you visit the site, take a moment to really look at the splash page before you click on the “english” button. Take a look at the map of the world in the background. Now compare that to their logo. Notice how much landmass is covered in their logo? I make the point because Americans generally learn geography based on who we are bombing. This time it would be wise to learn it up front.
Current members include Russia, China, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazahkstan, Kyrgystan and Tajikistan. Now most folks in the US is probably laughing “who cares about these pissant countries!” This will wipe the smile off your face: Member countries represent 1/4 of the world’s population. Two of the countries are nuclear powers. One is a major oil producer. Think they don’t have clout? Here is a story from last November that didn’t get much play:
Uzbekistan Ends U.S. Use of Airbase Aiding Afghanistan Mission
You probably don’t know much about Uzbekistan. Don’t be surprised. It is a small impoverished country with a GDP approx. equal to Bill Gates’ personal fortune. ($47B USD) If it was a state, West Virginia would be giving it assistance.
You think given Uzbekistan’s strategic location we would leave willingly? You really believe the Bush administration chose to put “human rights” as a higher priority than a forward base in Central Asia as a launch pad for counterterrorism operations?
Now ask yourself…. when was the last time some pissant little country forced the US to close down one of its bases? When was the last time ANY country forced the US to get out?
Obviously Uzbekistan has something West Virginia doesn’t. It belongs to SCO. Belonging to SCO allows them to align themselves with Russia AND China. But wait…. there’s more: Iran, India, Pakistan and Mongolia are all petitioning for membership in the SCO. When that happens, you will have 4 nuclear powers representing 1/2 the world’s population! Consider the President’s recent itineraries and you will notice something interesting. He has recently been to Mongolia (first time for any president), and India (first time for him), Pakistan (first time for him). Hell of a coincidence for a guy who doesn’t travel much.
Right now the SCO is primarily dedicated to making sure that all these countries can settle regional issues without a shooting war in Central Asia (where they all share borders). But that will quickly change with the addition of India, Iran, Pakistan and Mongolia. Then it will be a alliance that can counter any threat in the world.
Basically the countries in the SCO will cover a landmass from Europe to Central and South Asia to Asia. From the Baltic and Black Seas to the Pacific. From the Arctic to the Indian Ocean.
Look at the map and you will realize the only country missing from that grand coalition is Afghanistan.
March 5th, 2006 at 1:25 pmIf you think about it for a minute or two, it should be obvious that power bloc would have significant geographic, military, economic, and natural resource clout. Here’s why The overwhelming assessment by Asian officials, diplomats and analysts is that the U.S. military simply cannot defeat China. And China is not alone.
You can be sure that the senior members of the Republican Party are thinking the same things Murtha is courageously saying. No one has the guts to admit he is right, everyone is so afraid of their voters. But Murtha hit it on the head, the voters are smarter than our “elected” leaders. The worst “President” in US history continues to mislead and congress knows it. Cowards, all of them.
March 5th, 2006 at 1:28 pmThe Hon. Murtha’s comment are honest, and need to be part of an open dialogue in American politics. Not spun. China owns quite a bit of our debt, which translates into China literally bankrolling the war in Iraq, which we repay with interest. Somewhat a double assault on the American public, a depletion of our resources, plus monetary profits for China. Win/win for China, similar to Haliburton, and other no bidders. Sherri
March 5th, 2006 at 1:28 pmChina has us checkmated.. the commies have won the coldwar.
March 5th, 2006 at 1:29 pmChew on that.
Oh Mr. Ruppet,
You’re back again, and now you are a qualified psychologist/psychiatrist? You can make a diagnosis from videos, just like Dr. Frist? Remember him? He made a diagnosis of cognizance based on a video of a woman whose brain had atrophied.
Again, back up your assertions with facts or shut up. You have not responded to my earlier requests for documentation. I can only presume you have none. Hence your assertions are worthless.
You are as a pesky fly who dines off the excrement of dogs then travels about depositing filth wherever you land. Go find some NEO-CON blogs. I am sure you will find the fare there more to your appetite.
March 5th, 2006 at 1:30 pm#9 background
March 5th, 2006 at 1:35 pmI have read some of the links posted here concerning the possible fate of the US and its economy. Your summary points are pretty descriptive.
Why? Why are the idiot-in-charge and his friends spreading the asscheeks of this country for easy entry by China, Iran, and the overtly evil point on the “axis of evil,” North Korea. Why?
March 5th, 2006 at 1:35 pmAfter reading the post by Background Noise, I have decided to enroll in a chinese language class. What else can we do?
March 5th, 2006 at 1:38 pmBackground Noise,
excellent post.
Napoleon’s armies died of disease in Haiti, as they did in Egypt. And they were frozen to death in the Retreat from Moscow. In each case, the French had overextended thier empire.
And that lesson has been taught to each empire. It will be taught to the American Empire as well.
March 5th, 2006 at 1:38 pmIt seems like Jack Murtha is the only one in Washington who is not afraid to tell the truth about Iraq
March 5th, 2006 at 1:40 pmRuppert, don’t be stuppert.
March 5th, 2006 at 1:44 pmThe only thing that can be done to Jack is to smear his name all over the pages where he speaks the truth. Ad hominem him ad infinitum.
George Bush would never lie. The neocons always tell the truth. so there, phooey to the lame-brained truth tellers.
Let the war and the slaughter to continue unabated. The US of A can go broke. Who really cares? Jack Murtha? I doubt it.
Another Pyrrhic Victory for the US of A, Vietnam wasn’t enough.
March 5th, 2006 at 1:57 pmIf you ever look into Murtha’s record, you’d find that he is on the fringe on a lot of issues.
He’s nothing more than a fringe leftist trying to pose as a moderate.
March 5th, 2006 at 1:59 pmare you PAYING ATTENTION, ‘Mean Jean Schmidt’????????…Did Jesus fill you with so much hate?….I think not.
March 5th, 2006 at 1:59 pmOkay Gary,
give me links to Murtha’s record to support your claim?
March 5th, 2006 at 2:03 pmThe continuous lies to American citizens began a long time a go but it was lies about WMD in Iraq and the ability to use them in 45 minutes that sent us into Iraq. Lies about Bin Laden and al-Qaeda’s links to Iraq as excuses to go war where the Bush administration, friends, and political donors and cronies are raking in billions of dollars in oil and wartime contracts, graft and corruption, and outright stealing, off the backs of 2300 dead American soldiers and even more mercenaries. INVESTIGATE IMPEACH CONVICT
March 5th, 2006 at 2:06 pmgarypuppet: No more than an asshole posing as an idiot.
March 5th, 2006 at 2:06 pmMurtha is wrong. The only people who want Americans in Iraq are Iran, Al-Qaeda, China, Russia, North Korea, Venezuela, Neoconservatives and your ever-loving lap-dog in it up to it’s neck (desperately trying to protect it’s own interests), Britain.
Neocon Bushco have invested too much in the middle-east and believe the risk is necessary as ‘the ends justify the means’.
They will not pull out, I argue the longer neocons are in the middle-east (metaphorically speaking – neocons would not put themselves in direct harms way, that is what ‘cannon fodder’ is for), the more Bushco have to dominate and control the oil. It’s the only way to prevent the economic meltdown well predicted by ‘Background Noise’. Oil must continue to be traded in dollars. What is the neocons way to ensure this?
This is why I think there will be a draft coming to us all in a sandy place not-so-near-us soon. I hope I’m wrong, oh boy, do I hope I’m wrong.
March 5th, 2006 at 2:12 pm#21
Hey Gary, I’d also like to see those links.
March 5th, 2006 at 2:12 pmGary doesnt have facts to back up his idiotic claims. It is obvious he has never looked at Murtha’s voting record. Definately not a leftist voting record =P
March 5th, 2006 at 2:12 pmWay to go Krazny!
Mr. Ruppert has yet to substantiate any of his posts when I have requested him to do so. He is as a putrid boil, once lanced, the vile fluid spewing forth with a foul smell.
March 5th, 2006 at 2:13 pmBush and his accomplices Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice et al are mostly active members of conservative Think Tanks and have been planning to invade the middle-east for years. Check out the AEI (American Enterprise Institute)
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1431
From the AEI link above: In a January 2003 speech at an AEI dinner celebrating the life of neocon(servative) godfather Irving Kristol, President Bush underscored the institute’s impact. After commending AEI for having “some of the finest minds in our nation,” the president said…… “We meet here during a crucial period in the history of [the United States], and of the civilized world. Part of that history was written by others; the rest will be written by us.”
March 5th, 2006 at 2:20 pmChina holds our loans and these loans are coming dued and there’s nary a red penny to start paying them.
bush is blinded by his suck ups.
I wonder how close bin bush laden is to gw laden bush is?
It seems like they both want thesame thing…
March 5th, 2006 at 2:20 pmThere’s one more country that wants this Iraq quagmire to continue.Israel
March 5th, 2006 at 2:20 pm[...] Murtha: The ‘Only People Who Want Us in Iraq’ are Iran, al Qaeda, and China [...]
March 5th, 2006 at 2:20 pmguys, to prevent confusion, is it too much to ask to refer to ‘Gary Ruppert’ as ‘Gary Ruppert’ and not just ‘Gary’. I ask this because I often get mistaken for him.
March 5th, 2006 at 2:23 pmyeah, well said piltdown
March 5th, 2006 at 2:24 pmGary Ruppert has finished his correspondence course in the Frist School of Video Diagnosis, and has received his talking points from the Land of Wingnuttia. Release the hounds!
Oh yeah, Gary, I’d also like to see any links you have on Murtha.
March 5th, 2006 at 2:25 pmIran wants American troops in Iraq more than anyone else, Iranians are geniuses they worked out that “how can Iran be attacked of seeking Nuclear weapons Falsely if American troops are bogged down in Iraq and are close targets for them” Its a bit like putting yourself in a hostage situation, Also the Iraqi goverment are really Iranians asking the Americans to stay
Dont Take a idiot to work that bit out
Next The American Goverment has been outplayed by the occupation of Iraq by Russia and China Clever eh
I had my suspicians of this a year or so ago
Thank you Murtha for being Honest …seems a nice guy
March 5th, 2006 at 2:29 pm[...] Read More Murtha [...]
March 5th, 2006 at 2:30 pmTwo hands clapping for Innocent Bystander for #19.
March 5th, 2006 at 2:34 pmIs it any wonder that news sources that are used to brainwash the American public-Fox news and the Washington Times are owned by individuals with links to the eastern hemisphere, Rupert Murdoch(Australia)and Sun Myung Moon(Korea)respectively? No wonder their drumbeat for war was so loud.
March 5th, 2006 at 2:35 pmBecause America is in theory bankrupt,( and about to be sold off) Bush has been hiding whats left of your money in military institutions – eg Haliburton etc etc namely cause if you start a war with Iran. China and all the others are gonna sell off your dollars overnight and call in the loans making America unable to fight a war due to lack of cash ,,So thats why Bush is hiding all your monies in military hardware etc etc. Hes really blundered big time and hes not a good poker player if you think about it …All his trump card is “we have lots of Nuclear Bombs” TO BULLY THE REST OF THE WORLD WITH….. the guys a joke think about it
March 5th, 2006 at 2:40 pmIf you ever look into Murtha’s record, you’d find that he is on the fringe on a lot of issues.
He’s nothing more than a fringe leftist trying to pose as a moderate.
Comment by Gary Ruppert — March 5, 2006 @ 1:59 pm
Ruppert, good to see Tony Blair realizes how much a clusterfuck this war in Iraq is. Whne people start saying “God will judge me, lookout, they see the writing on the walls.”
Also, Blair is at 28% in the polls in the UK. Heckuva job.
Hey, Iran just said that they are going to continue with their nuclear program. I thought the strategy in the war in Iraq was going to intimidate the middle east and make the radicals afraid of the mighty US power display? Now Hamas has taken over Palestine and Iran is barreling full speed ahead with the nuclear program…And now Pakistan is sniping at Afghanistan too…..
What happened to all that brilliant neoconartist strategery?
-GSD
March 5th, 2006 at 2:40 pmIf you ever look into Murtha’s record, you’d find that he is on the fringe on a lot of issues.
He’s nothing more than a fringe leftist trying to pose as a moderate.
Comment by Gary Ruppert — March 5, 2006 @ 1:59 pm
Ruppert also true to reactionary, Republican attack spin, doesn’t address the substance of Murtha’s comments…just goes on to say that Murtha is a “fringe left winger”.. a patently false statement, by the way.
So, next time you bring up a point about Bush I will reply: “Well, he is a radical Christian who wants to bring on the apocalypse..so don’t listen to him”…”Well, he is just a dry drunk and should ignored.”…Or..”Bush is dishonest, he claims to be a Texan, but he was born in Connecticut, and went to prep-school where he was a cheerleader and then he went to Harvard and Yale….breeding grounds for “rebels”..
Ha.
Garry, the wheels are coming off the adminstration…Admit it.
-GSD
March 5th, 2006 at 2:44 pmI would say reality happened to the neo-con strategy.
Iran realizes that the US is unable to do anything about its nuclear ambitions, and with the UN now powerless, partially because of Bush, it may be up to the EU to put an end to Iran’s program.
March 5th, 2006 at 2:45 pm42#What happened to all that brilliant neoconartist strategery?
Bush has been outfoxed lets face it
March 5th, 2006 at 2:46 pmWould liberals/progressives/socialists (whatever the word du jour is for yourselves these days) please give a comprehensive overview of their foreign policy agenda. Please include the defense of allies and the policy position when attacked. (Ad hominem attacks should be kept to a minimum – although I know for some of you, that might prove difficult, if not impossible.
March 5th, 2006 at 2:48 pmExcellent post by Background Noice (#9). That’s the kind of insight that is sorely needed on this board, rather than the ignorant trolls and the troll-responders.
March 5th, 2006 at 2:50 pmheres the fact America petrol wars can only be played 6 ways and here they are : 5 and 6 are unaceptable
March 5th, 2006 at 2:52 pmI would argue that the Chinese are not on a level with Iran and Al Queda. The Chinese probably feel a little bit of satisfaction that we are losing both because it shows that we cannot do all that we want and because China’s military solution to Iraq would be effective, if you’d like to call it that.
China gets a ‘plus’ from Iraq in that the troops needed for Iraq cannot be redeployed to the Pacific, where we are actually building up our presence (in line with the China is a threat DoD line).
China has 700m peasants. They are not a superpower, but are a very large economic driver and are on the verge of becoming a true superpower. The Chinese are spending lavishly on their military as they had gotten fairly far behind. They would like to be able to keep us from intervening in a dispute with Taiwan.
China also has business interests in nasty places in the world (Sudan, etc). The heat stays off.
March 5th, 2006 at 2:52 pmJohn Murtha has lost his mind.
Comment by Gary Ruppert
Now THAT is some reasoned thinking… to bad you were not there back in 1770s Gary … You could have schooled Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson…
March 5th, 2006 at 2:54 pmwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa they are all picking on me…Gary Ruppert. Now now Gary ‘Ruppert’, call foxes security and all the bad people will get a ‘little visit’ from them.
March 5th, 2006 at 3:00 pm46)
NeoNut … how many times do these links have to be listed before you READ them … and I dont mean read the link …follow the link and then read the text and the pages that follow …
http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=1376283
March 5th, 2006 at 3:01 pmThis Article is an OUTRIGHT LIE AND IM MAD AS HELL.
WHO’S IN CHARGE HERE!!
LIES LIES LIES
OUTRAGED I SAY DAMN OUTRAGED
WHAT DID THIS LIE ENTAIL??
They forgot to mention that Halliburton wants them there too
March 5th, 2006 at 3:07 pmLove
-Dikk Cheney
thanks for that link Toby Tall
Science fiction writer Kim Stanley Robinson, in his 1984 book, “The Wild Shore,†imagined a United States which had been destroyed by the other countries of the world working in concert, as a defensive measure against U.S. dominance, arrogance and disproportionate consumption of the world’s resources. The country is kept in an unreconstructed state with Canada controlling the northern border, Mexico the south, Japan the west, and Russia the east. With satellite surveillance and advanced weapons systems, these countries destroy any attempts by Americans to rebuild infrastructure which might enable them to regain any power in the world.
March 5th, 2006 at 3:15 pm———————————————
I WILL RULE THE WORLD!!
HELLO LINN
GET PINKIE (Duhbya) on THE LINE!!
http://americanthinker.com/comments.php?comments_id=4524
Originally published at the American Thinker
March 5th, 2006 at 3:21 pmMore Evidence of Saddam’s Links to al-Qaeda
originally published at the American Thinker, thanks Thomas
March 5th, 2006 at 3:23 pm54# dont forget the other chapters
http://www.energybulletin.net/12271.html
March 5th, 2006 at 3:26 pm54 # Who Will We Become?
The answer to the question, “Could we lose the war?,†must inevitably be “Yes.â€
March 5th, 2006 at 3:29 pmI got a great idea lets ban the bomb worldwide and cancel the American debt , dammit thats just to plain simple ok ill think of something else
March 5th, 2006 at 3:38 pmA comprehensive overview would be a treatise. This forum is not appropriate for such a work. Indeed, one of the challenges today is the sound-byte culture. If foreign policy, or any other policy for that matter, cannot be reduced to a sound byte, it does not get any attention from the mainstream media.
I cannot give you a “liberals/progressives/socialists” foreign policy agenda. I can give you my views, however.
There will be a time when “foreign policy” will be an archaic term. We are all one species. Until then, all rests on economics. Eliminate the profit motive and you eliminate war.
Change foreign policy from “what’s in it for me” to “how can I help you.” For in helping others we ultimately help better ourselves.
Imagine the foreign policy implications if America invested as much into developing renewable energy sources as it does now in war; if America stopped propping up dictators around the world; if America led the way in safeguarding Human Rights at home and abroad.
Imagine, if you will, foreign policy based on the teachings contained in the Sermon on the Mount. There are a lot of good ideas there. And they would work, if we only gave them a chance.
March 5th, 2006 at 3:40 pmGUESS WHAT? IT’S NOT ABOUT Representative John Murtha of Pennsylvania’s 12th Congressional District.
It’s about the U.S. Armed Forces invading and occupying Iraq, despite there being no National Security concern, or matter of Justice, to justify such an invasion and occupation;
It’s about the falsified intelligence, the misinformation, and the lies used to compel that invasion and occupation;
It’s about more than $300 billion dollars siphoned off from the U.S. Treasury, which becomes not evaporated in the deserts of Iraq, but deposited in the accounts of Defense Contractors;
It’s about 2,300 U.S. Troops killed in Iraq
http://icasualties.org/oif/
…it’s about greed, and hatred, and lies, and death
…it’s about anger, and frustration, and disbelief, and mistrust, and the grief of a People…
The People of the United States of America
That’s what it’s about.
IT’S NOT ABOUT Mr. Murtha
March 5th, 2006 at 3:56 pmI tend to agree with Murtha on Iraq and of his criticisms of this administration, but I think his articulation of China’s goals is somewhat simpistic. The last thing China wants is the US economy to implode. Apart from being a huge market for Chinese goods, the US has also sold China 286 billion dollars in tresury bonds. My sense is that China would prefer that we do not default on these. Moreover, diminishing US troop levels would lead to pulling them out of S. Korea and Japan and transferring them to the Middle East. This would make China very nervous, indeed.
March 5th, 2006 at 3:58 pmComment by Ray Robison — March 5, 2006 @ 3:23 pm
You do know this flawed logic you cut and pasted could also be applied to the US government financing of the Mujahedeen. But you knew that of course. Because you are a fair and balanced minded faux bot.
March 5th, 2006 at 4:00 pmMr. Robison,
those are some wispy, thin straws you are grasping.
March 5th, 2006 at 4:02 pmOh well seems plain obvious now Bush has lost the war in Iraq , and has been outfoxed by Russian and Chinese plans for their need for oil , and bankrupted America at the same time
getting the books and teashirts printed up
March 5th, 2006 at 4:09 pmYear US Deaths US Wounded
2003 486 2409
2004 848 7989
2005 846 5944
2006 120 311
projected American Military deaths 64 days this year so far
dived into 365 x 120 = 685 deaths to come by 31/12/06
yup looks like the Iranian insurgency is diminishing
March 5th, 2006 at 4:18 pmThe US has two million people in its prisons. Unicor ‘employs’ prisoners at indentured wages. The FBI managed to kill more than eighty people in Waco.
What is the US doing in Iraq? Seems as though the US gov. has its own house to clean before it makes a mess in another.
Pot kettle black
March 5th, 2006 at 4:25 pmAbuses in Iraq — and Brooklyn
March 5th, 2006 at 4:27 pm64 Comment by Capt. Broccoli — March 5, 2006 @ 4:02 pm
these are captured al-Qaeda documents from Afghanistan. Sorry Bin Laden forgot to get them notarized for you brainiac.
March 5th, 2006 at 4:30 pmYou do know this flawed logic you cut and pasted could also be applied to the US government financing of the Mujahedeen. But you knew that of course. Because you are a fair and balanced minded faux bot.
Comment by theroachman — March 5, 2006 @ 4:00 pm
These are al-Qaeda documents captured in Afghanistan. Just because you lefties are idiots doesn’t make the documents unfair, brainiac.
March 5th, 2006 at 4:33 pmLook on the bright side–if things get really bad, China might forgive our debt.
March 5th, 2006 at 4:44 pmHow about a link then Mr Robinson?
March 5th, 2006 at 4:45 pmhttp://www.ctc.usma.edu/aq_harmonylist.asp
March 5th, 2006 at 4:48 pmHum a government link promoting the war against every one. How about some independent research to collaborate your propaganda?
March 5th, 2006 at 4:53 pm#
Hum a government link promoting the war against every one. How about some independent research to collaborate your propaganda?
Comment by theroachman — March 5, 2006 @ 4:53 pm
these are captured al-Qaeda documents from Afghanistan. Pull the tin hat from over your eyes and read them.
March 5th, 2006 at 4:56 pmI see the squatting bitch eunuchs are here posting. Hey Ray, better squat lower in your Saddam hole.
March 5th, 2006 at 5:00 pm#
I see the squatting bitch eunuchs are here posting. Hey Ray, better squat lower in your Saddam hole.
Comment by Citizen80203 — March 5, 2006 @ 5:00 pm
thanks for the inciteful analysis. this is why you guys have lost the WH, congress and the supreme court. you got nothing to say so you cry like little babies
March 5th, 2006 at 5:02 pmIf I pull the tin hat over my eyes what will protect me from the satellites?
OR
If I pull the tin hat over my eyes then we can have matching blinders.
I say it again
March 5th, 2006 at 5:03 pmindependent research to collaborate your propaganda?
If the preznit was trustworthy I would still ask for independent research. The military is not supposed to be people in charge of intelligence it leads to abuse of power.
Actually we are the
Right bitch,
The documents you “found” have been discredited, oh about two years ago. Jesus eunuch, go be afraid somewhere else, adults post here boychild.
March 5th, 2006 at 5:05 pmWell, I’m sold. If we have captured correspondence from Afghanistan revealing al-Qaeda’s mounting weakness, I guess we all have to accept the fact that the rest of this shit isn’t really happening.
Now, if someone would just tell the Iraqis and the Afghanis about those letters, we could all go home.
March 5th, 2006 at 5:06 pmI was trying to be nice Citizen80203 and see if Mr Robinson would do some research on his own. but “boychild” explains it best.
March 5th, 2006 at 5:07 pm[...] Think Progress » Murtha: The ‘Only People Who Want Us in Iraq’ are Iran, al Qaeda, and China [...]
March 5th, 2006 at 5:08 pmEveryone please visit Ray Robison’s new blog.
It’s cheaper than subscribing to Rush’s 24/7 service, and it copies all the highlights.
March 5th, 2006 at 5:10 pm#
Actually we are the
Right bitch,
The documents you “found†have been discredited, oh about two years ago. Jesus eunuch, go be afraid somewhere else, adults post here boychild.
Comment by Citizen80203 — March 5, 2006 @ 5:05 pm
That is not only a lie but a complete fabrication. These documents were just released for the first time by the West Point combating terrorism center a few weeks ago and NEVER before. LLLLLIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAARRRRRRR!!!!!!
March 5th, 2006 at 5:19 pmRay Robison:
Saddam Hussein did not have links to Al Qaeda. Bin Laden frequently called for his overthrow. Our own military intelligence was telling Bush “Saddam’s regime is intensely secular and is wary of Islamic revolutionary movements… Moreover, Baghdad is unlikely to provide assistance to a group it cannot control”.
Saying Saddam supported Al Qaeda contradicts the state of the intelligence, public record in the Middle East, and basic rational thought. Some spurious citations does not change that.
Can you provide a link showing that these supposed documents you talk about are public and able to be viewed by us? Then we may reconsider…
March 5th, 2006 at 5:20 pm“LLLLLIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAARRRRRRR!!!!!!”
Tough, “inciteful” commentary from “The Smartest Man Alive.”
You GO, girl!
March 5th, 2006 at 5:22 pmthese are captured al-Qaeda documents from Afghanistan. Pull the tin hat from over your eyes and read them.
Comment by Ray Robison — March 5, 2006 @ 4:56 pm
Ah, I get it now. You mean al-Qaeda actually collapsed 4 years ago and the only thing holding them together as a fighting force is the US invasion of Iraq.
Oh, wait … that’s what Murtha said.
You make a very convincing point. The US had al Qaeda on the ropes in 2002. If the US had not invaded Iraq, al-Qaeda would have been destroyed by now. Instead, they bomb, Bali, Madrid, London, whatever, and have every conservative in America wetting his pants and crying “save us, Mr. President”, when internal dissention was tearing them apart in 2002. Way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Next time can we let the grownups fight the War on Terror?
March 5th, 2006 at 5:22 pm#
Everyone please visit Ray Robison’s new blog.
It’s cheaper than subscribing to Rush’s 24/7 service, and it copies all the highlights.
Comment by RunningDogLackey — March 5, 2006 @ 5:10 pm
Those articles were written by me and published at the American Thinker and Rush then linked to them in his 24/7 stack of stuff, not the other way around. can’t you clowns get anything right? but thanks for visiting my site, hope it brings you back to reality, but I doubt it.
March 5th, 2006 at 5:22 pmCan you provide a link showing that these supposed documents you talk about are public and able to be viewed by us? Then we may reconsider…
Comment by Adam — March 5, 2006 @ 5:20 pm
comment 73 has the link.
What you have said is a misunderstanding of two things. Saddam did not want Mujahedeen running around in Baghdad, but he used them and supported them outside of Iraq. Bin Laden hated Saddam, but al-Qaeda is more than OBL. al-zawahri brought the Egyptian Islamic Jihad together with Bin Ladens supporters in the early ninties. al-zawahri and the EIJ did work with Saddam.
March 5th, 2006 at 5:27 pmComment by Frankly, my dear, … — March 5, 2006 @ 5:22 pm
for crying out loud, the documents show that al-Qaeda sent fighters to Saddam before we invaded. We are still fighting al-Qaeda there now.
March 5th, 2006 at 5:28 pmFrance is to help Libya develop its civilian nuclear energy programme.
A pact between the two countries is due to be signed in the next two to three weeks and was announced by Patrick Ollier, the president of the French National Assembly’s economic affairs committee, on his return from Tripoli on Sunday.
I suppose washington wants to bomb Libya too….I forgot they already did and for nothing ( libya was actually innocent of lockerbie) they just took the blame to remove sanctions….. Hitler has a lot less aggressive foreign policy than you yanks
March 5th, 2006 at 5:32 pmcan’t you clowns get anything right?
“Nobody could have imagined a plane being used as a weapon…”
Condaleeza Rice
March 5th, 2006 at 5:33 pmNational Security Advisor
whats the score now something like 215 countries in the world and america i think has bombed 62 now ……. thats impressive to say pol pot
March 5th, 2006 at 5:34 pmMr Robinson
March 5th, 2006 at 5:35 pmYou really need to do more research on how al-Qaeda came to being. Then you may understand why many don’t believe a word you are saying
#
whats the score now something like 215 countries in the world and america i think has bombed 62 now ……. thats impressive to say pol pot
Comment by Tobey Tall — March 5, 2006 @ 5:34 pm
62 in how long?
March 5th, 2006 at 5:36 pmcan’t you clowns get anything right?
“I don’t think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees.”
George W. Bush
March 5th, 2006 at 5:38 pmRay Robison:
Prior to the Afghan invasion, Al Qaeda was a far more formal organization. Bin Laden was its head and its director. Using “Bin Laden” and “Al Qaeda” inner-changeably in the pre-Afghan war sense does not confuse the issue.
It is my understanding Zarqawi was not even affiliated with Al Qaeda until he set-up “Al Qaeda in Iraq” and recieved the formal blessing of bin Laden’s right-hand man, Zawahiri. Even if the letters you are citing are authentic and not being misrepresented, whatever indirect contacts Saddam had with Zarqawi in no way exonerates Bush or right-wingers dishonest rhetoric of insinuating and outright calling Saddam an “ally of Al Qaeda”. For all you know, if these letters are true, Saddam may have been trying to infiltrate Al Qaeda in the hopes of smashing the radical bin Laden. As a poster said earlier on “those are some thin and waspy straws you are grasping at”.
March 5th, 2006 at 5:39 pm“We have to address the fact that the president has broken the law.†— Senator Russ Feingold
March 5th, 2006 at 5:39 pm97
Jamaat al-Islamiyya, Egyptian Islamic Jihad
Egypt, Islamists
Are the major Islamist terrorist groups in Egypt linked to al-Qaeda?
Yes. Egypt’s two largest Islamist terrorist groups are Jamaat al-Islamiyya and Egyptian Islamic Jihad, both of which have important ties to Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaeda terrorist network. Offshoots of the much older and more grassroots-oriented Muslim Brotherhood, these two groups have been active since the 1970s. They draw young lower- and middle-class followers from the country’s south and from Cairo’s slums. Leaders from both groups fought alongside the Afghan mujahedeen against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s. Most Egyptians have expressed revulsion for the groups’ terrorist attacks, which have decimated one of Egypt’s most important sources of income, its tourism industry.
How are these groups connected to al-Qaeda?
Experts say bin Laden’s terror network grew in part out of Egyptian extremist groups, and many of al-Qaeda’s leaders are Egyptians. In recent years, bin Laden brought two leaders of Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Ayman al-Zawahiri and the late Muhammad Atef, into the top echelons of al-Qaeda. In addition, some members of Jamaat al-Islamiyya have reportedly joined al-Qaeda. Overall, dozens of Egyptian militants passed through al-Qaeda training camps in Taliban-run Afghanistan.
Many experts think Zawahiri, who was jailed in Egypt for his part in President Anwar al-Sadat’s 1981 assassination, and Atef were the brains behind al-Qaeda’s deadliest terrorist operations, including the 1998 attacks on U.S. embassies in East Africa and the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. (Atef was reportedly killed in a U.S. bombing raid in Afghanistan shortly after September 11.)
http://cfrterrorism.org/groups/jamaat.html
council on foreign relations
anything else you want to challenge??
March 5th, 2006 at 5:47 pmcan’t you clowns get anything right?
“We found the weapons of mass destruction.”
George W. Bush
March 5th, 2006 at 5:47 pm“for crying out loud, the documents show that al-Qaeda sent fighters to Saddam before we invaded. We are still fighting al-Qaeda there now.” - Ray Robison
Al Qaeda did not send fighters to Iraq to bolster Saddam’s regime, which is what you seem to imply. Al Qaeda could have cared less about Saddam as they detested him. As bin Laden made crystal clear prior to the invasion, his ploy was to defend the Iraqi people from the death and destruction of a “crusade” from an American invasion:
“Needless to say, this crusade war is primarily targeted
against the people of Islam.
“Regardless of the removal or the survival of the
March 5th, 2006 at 5:47 pmsocialist party or Saddam, Muslims in general and the
Iraqis in particular must brace themselves for jihad
against this unjust campaign and acquire ammunition
and weapons.”
P.S. Mohammed Atta, leader of the 9/11 attack was an Egyptian Jihadist
March 5th, 2006 at 5:48 pm101
“We found the weapons”
http://www.factcheck.org/article349.html
March 5th, 2006 at 5:51 pm102
“Al Qaeda did not send fighters to Iraq to bolster Saddam’s regime, which is what you seem to imply.”
I am not implying it, a high level al-Qaeda operative said it in the captured documents.
March 5th, 2006 at 5:54 pmMurtha is an old crank who got almost every “fact” he cited wrong:
http://powerlineblog.com/archives/013327.php
March 5th, 2006 at 5:56 pm99 # your upset as is the rest of the world at the moment i suggest a flight to amsterdam and a cafe shop visit they have really good skunk in there site down chill out
Murtha seems to have his head screwed on……..
unlike Ray Robinson Al Qaeda came to Iraq after Bush invaded . and will leave when Bush leaves as the Iraqis will boot them out
Ray Robinson I quote 62 countries America has bombed as spoken by Tony Benn
since the Second World War America has bombed 21 countries**. It’s difficult to avoid the conclusion these hostile acts have provoked actual and potential attacks against USA and its allies.
But Im sure since your little 260 years history its 62
March 5th, 2006 at 5:56 pm“Al Qaeda could have cared less about Saddam as they detested him. As bin Laden made crystal clear prior to the invasion, his ploy was to defend the Iraqi people from the death and destruction of a “crusade†from an American invasion:”
OBL is not the only member of al-Qaeda. It also incudes the EIJ which DID work with Saddam.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:00 pmcan’t you clowns get anything right?
“It’s pretty well confirmed that he did go to Prague and he did meet with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service.”
Richard “who once shot a 78-year-old man in the face” Cheney
March 5th, 2006 at 6:00 pmRobison:
Cut and paste where this allegedly high-level Al Qaeda operative said that, like I did for bin Laden. Provide his name in the quote as well. Bin Laden, the undisputed leader of Al Qaeda when it was a more central organization, said Al Qaeda troops should go to Iraq to defend the Iraqis from a “crusade”, not to help “socialist” Saddam. So as it stands right now, it is only reasonable to conclude Al Qaeda was there to fight the Americans and not provide support for Saddam’s infidel regime.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:00 pm#Would liberals/progressives/socialists (whatever the word du jour is for yourselves these days) please give a comprehensive overview of their foreign policy agenda. Please include the defense of allies and the policy position when attacked. (Ad hominem attacks should be kept to a minimum – although I know for some of you, that might prove difficult, if not impossible.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — March 5, 2006 @ 2:48 pm
Heres one that will blow your racist mind aphrodite its called individuals
March 5th, 2006 at 6:01 pmMr. Robison,
Brainiac here.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:01 pmI read your ‘captured al-Qaeda documents from Afghanistan’
and I repeat, might wispy straws there, dittohead.
http://www.geocities.com/youngmick/levellers/levellers24.html
Tony Benn
March 5th, 2006 at 6:04 pmHey Ray Robison tell them what was left out of the 911 commission report?
Tell them about that yet?
How about Pinochet and Riggs?
Mr Robison?
How about that 25 million dollar fine?
Tell me mr robison what was hidden in those 28 unpublished pages.
Tell them Mr Robison
I dare you.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:04 pmThis goes hand in hand with an article from the LA Times a couple weeks ago. The article said “Who is winning in Iraq. Iran is”. True the incompetent in chief can not see this.
Jamie
March 5th, 2006 at 6:06 pmhttp://www.intoxination.net
“unlike Ray Robinson Al Qaeda came to Iraq after Bush invaded”
These are captured al-Qaeda documents and a high level al-Qaeda agent says they sent fighters to Saddam before the invasion. I think I will believe the evidence, thanks anyway.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:07 pmheres some hint when a stupid post as in Ray Robinsons come along grab a sentence and place ” ” outside the sentence
then use google it will search exact phrase
Bullshit to these Documents Al queada has nothing to do with saddam
March 5th, 2006 at 6:09 pmRobison:
I understand your usual ditto-head is very dumb and you assume progressives are too, but that’s a faulty assumption. Start peddling this garbage to your typical Bushbot. You’ll find a more receptive audience for this “evidence”. We’re not stupid and you’re just coming across as a mulish, spamming troll.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:11 pm#
can’t you clowns get anything right?
“It’s pretty well confirmed that he did go to Prague and he did meet with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service.â€
Richard “who once shot a 78-year-old man in the face†Cheney
Comment by Frankly, my dear, … — March 5, 2006 @ 6:00 pm
Yes and the Prague agent still stand by his testimony that he saw Atta. It is WELL established the Atta stoped in Prague on his way to the US the day before he got here. There is video evidence. Just a huge coincidence then that Atta stopped in Prague on his way here and a intelligence agent in Prague identified him immediatley after the 9/11 attacks BEFORE it was known Atta stopped in Prague on his way to the US? Pretty big coincidence, isn’t it?
March 5th, 2006 at 6:11 pmI really like this idea of presenting evidence today, trying to show us that all other prior evidence, including all the on-the-ground facts that we’ve seen over the last three years, is false.
Works for me.
“Commanders see no indications — and have gotten no information from detainees — leading them to believe foreign fighters have linked with former regime loyalists.
“But I believe there’ll be a time, when they become more and more desperate, that the regime loyalists will look to go to foreign fighters and try to integrate with them,” he said.
“In fact, we do believe that, because of some of the money that we have captured, that there are some problems with paying potential foreign fighters, and that’s why maybe we have not seen them yet, because they cannot pay them the money they need in order to conduct their operations,” he said.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-10-27-iraq-meeting_x.htm
March 5th, 2006 at 6:13 pm“John Murtha has lost his mind.” and Bush never had one.. so there.. na na na na boo boo.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:13 pm109, its all here, see comment 73 for the link to the original
March 5th, 2006 at 6:14 pmA few notes on commenting:
1. Don’t excerpt long passages from other sources and paste them into the comments. Instead, provide the link to the original source. Excessively long comments will be deleted.
2. When you link, please hyperlink, rather than past the URL directly into the comments. To do so, select the text you want to link, then click the “link” button above. A form will appear. Paste you link into that form and click OK. It’ll look like this.
3. Don’t let one voice dominate the discussion. Some people go onto this site to divert the discussion to their agenda. The best way to deal with these people is not to spend all your time talking to them.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:14 pmwell then Ray robinson be scared
France is to help Libya develop its civilian nuclear energy programme.
A pact between the two countries is due to be signed in the next two to three weeks and was announced by Patrick Ollier, the president of the French National Assembly’s economic affairs committee, on his return from Tripoli on Sunday.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1E61C506-1941-4957-9905-A4B264A7BCEA.htm
March 5th, 2006 at 6:15 pmHow could he forget the neocons?
Anyway, while you’re waiting for Jon Stewart to entertain you tonight at the Oscars, I have a new Assclowns of the Week.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:16 pm#
Mr. Robison,
Brainiac here.
I read your ‘captured al-Qaeda documents from Afghanistan’
and I repeat, might wispy straws there, dittohead.
Comment by Capt. Broccoli — March 5, 2006 @ 6:01 pm
so captured documents from Afghanistan written by al-Qaeda leaders have no intelligence value to you? Way to go brainiac….clap….clap….clap.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:16 pmI confess this “Atta in Prague” stuff is intriguing.
Now, if we could just identify the 9/11 highjackers, we MIGHT have a significant puzzle piece here.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:16 pmBush is quoted as saying “We found the weapons of mass destruction,†but that’s not all he said.
Comment by Ray Robison — March 5, 2006 @ 5:51 pm
No, he said a lot of other things that were just as wrong, as your post points out.
The point is that “can’t you clowns get anything right?” is not a particularly viable defense of a crew that has yet to get anything right and has cost this country tens of thousands of casualties and billions of squandered dollars doing it.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:17 pm122 opps sorry for 123
March 5th, 2006 at 6:17 pm“Yes and the Prague agent still stand by his testimony that he saw Atta. It is WELL established the Atta stoped in Prague on his way to the US the day before he got here. There is video evidence. Just a huge coincidence then that Atta stopped in Prague on his way here and a intelligence agent in Prague identified him immediatley after the 9/11 attacks BEFORE it was known Atta stopped in Prague on his way to the US? Pretty big coincidence, isn’t it?”
Yeah, and a pretty big coincidence that he is still suppose to be alive.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2004/120904stillinsists.htm
This is not proof, but it does mean that theres a possibility.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:20 pm#
heres some hint when a stupid post as in Ray Robinsons come along grab a sentence and place ††outside the sentence
then use google it will search exact phrase
Bullshit to these Documents Al queada has nothing to do with saddam
Comment by Tobey Tall — March 5, 2006 @ 6:09 pm
Again for the slow kids. Saddam supported the EIJ. The al-qaeda organization is a combination of OBL followers, mujahedeen and the EIJ. Therefor, Saddam supported al-Qaeda. Deny it all you want cry baby libs. The proof is right there in the documents.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:20 pmIt is certainly true that George Bush used the US wilitary to invade Iraq based on an egotistical desire to be a “war president” and help his friends in the oil business, the construction business and the military business. But what about the members of congress other than John Murtha, Barbara Lee and Lynn Woolsey? Why do they continue to vote to borrow money from Chinese and Japenese banks to finance this castrophe in Iraq? Bush could continue without the collusion of congress.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:24 pmThe point is that “can’t you clowns get anything right?†is not a particularly viable defense of a crew that has yet to get anything right and has cost this country tens of thousands of casualties and billions of squandered dollars doing it.
Comment by Frankly, my dear, … — March 5, 2006 @ 6:17 pm
He was right about Saddam support to terrorism as well documented in state department and CIA reports all from the ninties and captured enemy documents. So is that not reason enough to take out an enemy? How about his thousands of attacks on US forces enforcing UN sanctions? How about trying to kill a US president? Any of that bother you or was Saddam still an okay guy?
March 5th, 2006 at 6:25 pmRobison:
No where in your quote does anything support your claim that Saddam was allied with bin Laden. All it says is that “Abd-al-Halim Adl” (whoever the fuck that is) blamed bin Laden for making a strategic error that set-back their movement with the 9-11 attacks. No where does he even say that Al Qaeda should support Saddam. According to USA Today, the documents show a broad consensus on one issue. “The documents show al-Qaeda is committed to waging a holy war against “dictators of the Earth and secular groups” that will end only when “everyone believes in Allah.” That would’ve included Saddam Hussein.
You haven’t offered a shred of evidence to your side. You are even still peddling the debunked Prague meeting Atta supposedly had with an Iraqi agent. With each passing pos, you are making it more than abundantly clear that the right is dangerously detached from reality. You guys are delusional!
March 5th, 2006 at 6:26 pmSorry. I meant to say that Bush could NOT continue without the collusion of congress.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:26 pmRay Robison – numerous rants,
The documents you link in #73 are almost entirely from 2002. This is 2006. At this point in time al-Qaeda has grown from its base of a few sites in Afghanistan to small armies in the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Pakistan, Iran and Iraq.
They also have cells in most north African countries, Europe and Asia.
al-Qaeda has grown from a splinter force to a multinational political enity of thousands that makes Hamas pall in comparison.
The US military had them in full retreat until the fall of 2002 when W started to move US forces from Afghanistan to staging areas for the Iraqi invasion. From then on, it was all downhill as far as the war on terror was concerned.
In addition, the Taliban is currently on a recovery path.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:26 pm#
Robison:
I understand your usual ditto-head is very dumb and you assume progressives are too, but that’s a faulty assumption. Start peddling this garbage to your typical Bushbot. You’ll find a more receptive audience for this “evidenceâ€. We’re not stupid and you’re just coming across as a mulish, spamming troll.
Comment by Adam — March 5, 2006 @ 6:11 pm
So again, a lib says that captured al-Qaeda documents are not “evidence”? And yet you claim libs are not stupid? hhhmmmmmm????
March 5th, 2006 at 6:27 pmMr. Robison,
Now you’re onto the M. Atta bs. Atta, whose wallet was found on an NYC street in the aftermath of the WTC disaster. Yeah, I’m sure he was the mastermind, and not a conveient scapegoat.
Anyway, by wispy straws I meant that, even if you take your ‘evidence’ at face value without considering your source, or their source, I don’t think that it would justify the invasion of a nation which posed no threat to us, nor attacked us, nor threatened to attack us, let alone the incredible destruction done to an innocent people and the consequent loss of american prestige, trust, wealth, and power, and the damage done to our armed forces.
What you dittoheads never seem to realize is that terrorism can only damage our society to the degree we allow it. The proper response to terrorism is to ignore it. It is a crime and should be treated as such, but to alter your society in the way you so-called conservatives desire is to give in. Terrorism desires exactly the response you’ve chosen.
BTW, if you think that we are in Iraq because of terrorism you are really naive. and please note, this does not mean I think it’s because of oil. There is way more money involved here than mere petrodollars.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:32 pmRobison, The evidence you cite in no way shows Saddam was in cahoots with Al Qaeda prior to the war, you dumb-ass! God damn, this would be comical if so many innocent people weren’t dying because these shrill and transparent right-wing lies.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:32 pmHey Ronbison,
How about worrying about our country first? When we can’t even take care of our own? Oh, that’s right because we have a oil president and a vp who halliburton has in their pockets.
Let’s just see how screwed up your president is.
1) Failed to listen to all the reports about Bin Ladent just months and weeks before 9/11.
2) Allowed, or more than likely involved in, 9/11. Evidence by the fact that he just sat there, even though he was told we were under attack. Also to the fact that the Secret Service did nothing. COMPLETELY AGAINST PROTOCOL.
3) Lied about WMD. (Proven)
4) Lied about the US not torchering prisoners. Leaving the Geneva Convention.
5) Lied about secret prison camps.
6) Lied about eavesdropping on American Citizens.
7) Lied about knowing about how bad Katrina would be.
I could go on…..
So, you expect ANYONE to believe this lying a**hole?
Stop following a Treasonist cobal, and start being a real American. Don’t be so stuck on following a party and start standing up for America.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:32 pm“Commanders see no indications — and have gotten no information from detainees — leading them to believe foreign fighters have linked with former regime loyalists.”
He said they have no evidence that they are linked, not that they are not there. They were there before the invasion as videnced by the captured al-qaeda documents.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:33 pm133
“Robison:
No where in your quote does anything support your claim that Saddam was allied with bin Laden.”
One more time. Saddam was linked to al-Qaeda, not OBL. The 9/11 attacks were orchistrated by al-zawahri, the leader of the egyptian islamic jihad, which also attacked us in 93′. Saddam supported the EIJ and thus al-Qaeda.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:37 pm#140 Hey, I get it now.
The danger is that they’re NOT linked.
Thanks!
March 5th, 2006 at 6:37 pm#139 – RemoveBush,
March 5th, 2006 at 6:40 pmCalm down, you will bust a gut (the only one you have). Use your spell checker as well – COBOL is a mnemonic and is spelled as it appears in this post and should be all caps. I do admit that it is treasonous but no one has come up with a simpler programming language for accountants yet.
Robison:
One more time, Bin Laden was the head of Al Qaeda prior to the war. He is still their figure head, but he use to be their director and operational leader. How can the leader of a terrorist organization not support somebody, but the organization itself support that somebody? Take your thorazine and re-think what you’re saying. It is on its face irrational and erratic.
And who is the EIJ? What is that an abreviation for?
March 5th, 2006 at 6:42 pmWhat I really loved about the 9/11 video that ’surfaced’ as evidence that OBL admitted to the WTC attack, was how badly it was done. Left-handed vs. right-handed, ring where OBL never wears one, and of course the face, which wasn’t OBL at all. And the fact that OBL denies he did it:
http://www.robert-fisk.com/usama_interview_ummat.htm
Yep, facing the fact that Murtha is right seems to be a serious problem for some people. Some people can’t even read the entire article I presented before responding!
To say the truth, if I had to choose which was more intelligent in this discussion, I’m afraid the troll would lose handily. Unless the voting was rigged :)
March 5th, 2006 at 6:43 pmOh okay…EIJ is Egyptian Islamic Jihad. That is still a spurious and indirect link, if true…
March 5th, 2006 at 6:43 pmWalt,
I’m calm. Sorry, but I am not going to write in a text editor first just to check my spelling. This is not a English spelling contest here.
I think the meaning can be determined if someone makes some typos. :)
March 5th, 2006 at 6:46 pmMr. Robison,
You seem to think that anything the pentagon says must be true, beyond question, and leads right where you want it to lead. You’re only links and quotes have been to the same website, which is a propaganda outlet for the pentagon, and not some independent research facility.
And now I read that you think that al-queda is of Egyptian origin. Do you even know what al-queda means? I suppose you even believe that obl is really the ‘black sheep’ of the bin laden family.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:49 pmThese are captured al-Qaeda documents and a high level al-Qaeda agent says they sent fighters to Saddam before the invasion. I think I will believe the evidence, thanks anyway.
No, what you are doing is not “believing the evidence”. What you are doing is believing unanalyzed raw intelligence and ignoring any conflicting evidence. That’s how the White House sold the invasion of Iraq in the first place. You are just playing the same game four years after the fact. Your analysis is highly subjective and you seem to place an inordiate reliance on the veracity of “high level al-Qaeda agents”. Whatever they say must be true in your eyes, even when you don’t know the full context of the letters they have written. Letters are notoriously difficult to interpret unless you have the complete exchange because the writer and the recipient share a context that is not available to the outsider.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:51 pm#146 – Adam,
March 5th, 2006 at 6:52 pmI thought that EIJ meant error-in-judgment. More apt for Robison. The world would be a better place today if his mother had been more careful with that diaphragm. Ray Robison – the poster child for freedom of choice.
some progress going on despite the chaos, I wish our men and women were home and the same ramp up Katrina was happening.
Here are some selections from the most recent Status Report, dated March 1:
Iraqi Police and Coalition Forces conduced a raid resulting in the death of Abu Asma, the Al Qaeda military leader of northern Baghdad.
The Police Chief of Diwaniyah Province…and Col. Larry McCallister, commander of Gulf Region South District, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers cut the ribbon to officially open the 32nd police station in Diwaniyah Province.
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers completed construction on the $118 million New Power Generation Plant in Basrah Province. The new plant will provide power to approximately 1.5 million residents.
On February 21, the US Army Corps of Engineers completed construction on the $3.4 million Al Abara Substation, an Electric Distribution Project in Diyala Province. The rehabilitated substation is capable of providing power to approximately 60,000 residents.
U.S. and Iraqi troops have stepped up their patrols in Iraq’s Baghdad and Babil provinces, and with assistance of ordinary Iraqis, discovered and defused numerous roadside bombs, mine fields and weapons caches.
Total trained and equipped Iraqi Security Forces: 232,100.
Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim Ja’afari claimed that sectarian violence in his country would not derail efforts to set up a new government and said the security situation was as now under control….The number of attacks has dropped sharply over the last few days.
Construction is complete for the Al Basasel School project that 150 students and eight faculty members will utilize in Mosul. The US Army Corps of Engineeers completed constructed on several other educational facilities:
–Renovations on the Malk Al Ashtar school project in Diwaniyah, that will benefit some 2,000 Iraqi students.
–A girls’ school housing 480 students in Khairat, Karbala Province.
–Refurbishing of the Imam Ali School in Karbala….This school will serve approximately 960 students.
US Army Corps of Engineers completed a water pump station project that will benefit approximately 100,000 Iraqis in the western part of Mosul.
Construction is complete on two US-funded Village Road Projects in the Basrah Governorate that will provide improved transportation for 6,000 local residents in Taha and Al Khas….
The dinar remained stable against the dollar this week, ending at 1,476 dinars per USD on March
March 5th, 2006 at 6:52 pm135. sorry, you have no clue what you are talking about al-Qaeda in it’s various forms such as the EIJ has been around and active for decades, such as in the 93 WTC bombing and the assasination of Saddat. They were also in Bosnia, Kosovo, the caucasis, basicly everywhere from Pakistan and the Filipines to Saudi Arabia and Germany (and in the US) for many years. They fought us in Somalia. We now have them on the run for the first time in since they rose up. read this
http://rayrobison.typepad.com/ray_robison/2006/03/the_damage_to_a.html
It details the state of al-Qaeda since the 9/11 and has links to the al-Qaeda document.
Sorry folks, schools out, dinner and family time, see ya losers….
March 5th, 2006 at 6:54 pmAnd who is the EIJ? What is that an abreviation for?
Comment by Adam — March 5, 2006 @ 6:42 pm
Egyptian Islamic Jihad, lead by Ayman al-zawahri, you know the nice man in the recent videos. It is a mischaraterization to say OBL is in charge of al-Qaeda and zawahri is number 2. They are co leades with different roles and different objectives.
March 5th, 2006 at 6:56 pmMurtha: The ‘Only People Who Want Us in Iraq’ are Iran, al Qaeda, and China
March 5th, 2006 at 6:57 pmAl-Zawahiri ceased to be a member of Egyptian Islamic Jihad in 1995, doofus. And even if he did maintain ties with the group, that does not mount to support for Al Qaeda if Saddam provided some aid to EIJ. The U.S government provided a lot of aid to the mujadeen in Afghanistan. Does that mean the U.S is allied with Al Qeada? And every body in the Arab world and around the world recognizes bin Laden as the leader of Al Qaeda. Even to this day, he is seen as their figure-head.
March 5th, 2006 at 7:00 pmSorry folks, schools out, dinner and family time, see ya losers….
Comment by Ray Robison — March 5, 2006 @ 6:54 pm
I hope mommy and daddy don’t scold him for being late. Now perhaps there can be some serious dicussion of Murtha’s statement.
March 5th, 2006 at 7:05 pmJamaat al-Islamiyya, Egyptian Islamic Jihad
Egypt, Islamists
Are the major Islamist terrorist groups in Egypt linked to al-Qaeda?
Yes. Egypt’s two largest Islamist terrorist groups are Jamaat al-Islamiyya and Egyptian Islamic Jihad, both of which have important ties to Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaeda terrorist network. Offshoots of the much older and more grassroots-oriented Muslim Brotherhood, these two groups have been active since the 1970s. They draw young lower- and middle-class followers from the country’s south and from Cairo’s slums. Leaders from both groups fought alongside the Afghan mujahedeen against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s. Most Egyptians have expressed revulsion for the groups’ terrorist attacks, which have decimated one of Egypt’s most important sources of income, its tourism industry.
How are these groups connected to al-Qaeda?
Experts say bin Laden’s terror network grew in part out of Egyptian extremist groups, and many of al-Qaeda’s leaders are Egyptians. In recent years, bin Laden brought two leaders of Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Ayman al-Zawahiri and the late Muhammad Atef, into the top echelons of al-Qaeda. In addition, some members of Jamaat al-Islamiyya have reportedly joined al-Qaeda. Overall, dozens of Egyptian militants passed through al-Qaeda training camps in Taliban-run Afghanistan.
Many experts think Zawahiri, who was jailed in Egypt for his part in President Anwar al-Sadat’s 1981 assassination, and Atef were the brains behind al-Qaeda’s deadliest terrorist operations, including the 1998 attacks on U.S. embassies in East Africa and the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. (Atef was reportedly killed in a U.S. bombing raid in Afghanistan shortly after September 11.)
http://cfrterrorism.org/groups/jamaat.html
council on foreign relations
seriously, I got to go now, mommy is calling LOL
March 5th, 2006 at 7:08 pmWasn’t the name al Qaeda created by the CIA for the group, and then OBL just took it over? At least that is how it is described in ‘The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear’ from Adam Curtis of the BBC:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares
You can download the documentary in numerous places if you haven’t seen it already. I thought it was pretty good. I asked the local PBS station (KQED) if they would show it, and they said they don’t show any BBC stuff. Oh well, it’s free to watch.
March 5th, 2006 at 7:11 pmp.s. if you anybody still wants to tangle with THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE!!! I have a post just for you on http://www.rayrobison.com. It is called “Hug a whiny lib time”. Give it a shot. Later losers….(for real this time)
March 5th, 2006 at 7:11 pm158 funny you should mention that documentary
see here
http://rayrobison.typepad.com/ray_robison/my_brilliant_essays/index.html
The Making of a Terror Myth
March 5th, 2006 at 7:16 pm#60 – Dear Braid Fairy – How about a comprehensive and concise overview of your foreign policy ideas? (I confess – it would be difficult to remain awake and attentive for a full blown treatise.)
“Eliminate the profit motive and you eliminate war.” – BF
******Please tell me about the species economies WITHOUT a profit. Do we regress to the barter system??? Do we all become self-sufficient – and each grow our own food? Do people who make buggy whips, or hybrid cars barter for bushels of corn?
I’ve read or heard the rest of your ideas before. I am curious – What do you do for a living??
March 5th, 2006 at 7:21 pmTHE US HAS SOLD CHINA 286 BILLION IN TREASURY BONDS?
Noooooooooooooooooooosirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
The US has BORROWED 286 billion from China, and continues to borrw at the rate of 1 billion per day. Avery once in a while Bush, without any approval from congress, gives China a little piece of paper denoting the debt.
Whichever way the amurkan economy goes, China will collect on the money owed. Bet on it.
March 5th, 2006 at 7:22 pmFor the smartest man alive, Ray Robinson sure has problems with grammar and spelling.
March 5th, 2006 at 7:39 pmBush’s Polics State…
John Murtha gives us a glimpse of the real world that is unfolding around us… The Comment by ‘Background Noise’ is even more of an eye opener……
March 5th, 2006 at 7:41 pmal-Qaeda at the time of the Afghan invasion consisted of about 1100 active members in Muslim countries mainly in Afghanistan and Yeman. Cells in other countries accounted for another 400 or so. Since W’s recruitment drive the membership has soared to about 90000 all over the world.
March 5th, 2006 at 7:47 pmgot impeachment,
Robin Cook, The UK Foreign Secretary who resigned on a matter of principle, made a last speech to Parliament before his sudden death last year. He stated that “Al-Quaida” was the name of the file listing the names of the mujahadeen enlisted by the US and Pakistani intelligence agencies to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan.
His comment adds to speculation as to whether there has ever been such an “organisation” called Al-Quaida. Hey, but he was only Foreign Secretary – what would he know?
March 5th, 2006 at 7:51 pm159- Aw come on Ray…Stick around..You’re a great american
Now back to reality…
103-
I did a little checking Ray’s resources…pretty weak. Factcheck is run by the Anneberg foundation. Draw your own conclusions.
http://www.slate.com/?id=2071870
Come on Ray…try a little originality. Rush Redux?
You sure showed us “liberals” something- What is your mantra? try this one- defeating the left with my pea brain in my pocket.
“if you anybody” wants to take this genius on- please do. I’m not smart enough.
March 5th, 2006 at 8:25 pm[...] (via thinkprogress.org) Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) today on CBS’s Face the Nation: [...]
March 5th, 2006 at 8:36 pmAppalled Ally, that’s how I remember it as well. Some people would have called it “My Brilliant Jihad”, or something pretty stupid like that…
March 5th, 2006 at 8:46 pmJudd, you have to admit it was kinda fun to watch, even if a little distracting.
March 5th, 2006 at 8:49 pmMr. Robison,
Another cut-n-paste from the same website. Sounds to me like someone found a new link and now thinks he’s an expert on terror groups.
Al-Quedas’ roots are in the Reagan administration (thats St. Ronald, to you). And what a scoop you brought us. ‘Experts’ say that muslim terror groups networked with each other. Who could have imagined…
March 5th, 2006 at 9:09 pmRobison is derived from Celtic for finch. In German, the term becomes Finken which is the root for fink as in ratfink – full circle. Currently, we name the robin after this root. Ratfink is more appropriate.
March 5th, 2006 at 9:17 pmgot impeachment,
If only someone had called the file “My Brilliant Jihad” – imagine how funny George’s speeches would sound.
(OK, they already do sound funny – so funnier.)
March 5th, 2006 at 9:37 pmAppalled Ally, you’re right. Think how silly our war would sound.
From my perspective, the entire military-industrial complex is not needed. They claim that people are terrible, through out history, and so we need a strong defense to protect us from these terrible people that want to destroy us.
I thought that ‘the people’ in any country never want war, but it is brought upon them by small groups of people that come to power and then stir up the people into a war, even if it is against their own interest.
But that is just my theory.
March 5th, 2006 at 9:52 pmDictionaries are tools the radical right seldom uses apparently.
civil war
n : a war between factions in the same country
Murtha is correct. The “right” is wrong.
March 5th, 2006 at 11:06 pmBackground Noise,
Your chosen name really reflects who you really are. Noise. All you know is to make noise. You thought you were pretty smart is making connections between SCO and China’s ambition. What a dreamer! You really are a hawk, aren’t you? Boy, you are definitely as hawkish as Mr. Paul Wolfowitz. Unfortunately for you, you are not nearly as smart as he is. So all you can do is to make noise. You pathetic fool! Have you been to China? I suggest you visit China couple of times before making any noise.
March 5th, 2006 at 11:47 pmMurtha is a patriot unlike Lieberman who is a traitor! Murtha tells the truth about Iraq and Lieberman tells lies!
March 6th, 2006 at 1:27 amMurtha must be supported, but Lieberman must be villified!
Darn it ! I am bummed that it was RR’s bed time. I was DYING to ask him about those “Captured Documents” that he kept alluding to. I wonder, was it a fearsome battle ? I assume those documents must have put up one HELL of a fight ! And since these were “known” Al-Queda documents, I want to know if they were sent to Guantanamo Bay, for immediate “interrogation”, by the CIA. I hope they didn’t try “waterboarding” the captured documents, they might not have survived it. Oh well, maybe next time. ;)
March 6th, 2006 at 2:23 am#178 Cyra, I would rather know if there was an independant translation or are we to take the military’s trasnslation for fact.
March 6th, 2006 at 2:59 am#179-Clif I was just being a smarty pants, personally, I think that if any such documents do exist, they are suspect, just like every other piece of so-called “intelligence” proffered by this administration, in an attempt to bolster their claims. I don’t believe ANYTHING they say, how could I ?
March 6th, 2006 at 3:09 amI looked at the web site and since I saw documents that looked similar during the first gulf war , I don’t discount the docs as much as I question the translation.
March 6th, 2006 at 4:33 amAd hominem attacks should be kept to a minimum – although I know for some of you, that might prove difficult, if not impossible.
Comment by mighty hypocrite —
Since when have you ever kept “ad hominem attacks” to “a minimum,” Mighty Hypocrite? I thought that was your specialty. And since you appear to be alive (though perhaps brain-dead) and still trolling, will you please answer questions you avoided replying to on previous threads, such as “What’s the excuse for the Bush administration to have ignored warnings in August 2001, from FBI agents about a suspicious number of Arabs enrolling in US flight schools and asking to learn only how to fly–not how to take off and land?” Or “Why hasn’t the Bush administration, nearly 4 and 1/2 years after 9/11, done anything to increase the number of staff in the government intelligence agencies who can translate/interpret Arabic and other languages spoken in Muslim countries?” Shouldn’t that be part of foreign policy? And what’s the point of wiretapping American citizens who may (or may not) be talking to Al Qaeda members if the government is only going to end up with hundreds of thousands of hours in untranslated backlog?
March 6th, 2006 at 9:21 am167, check out the about page of the factcheck website.
Our Mission
We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit, “consumer advocate” for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics. We monitor the factual accuracy of what is said by major U.S. political players in the form of TV ads, debates, speeches, interviews, and news releases. Our goal is to apply the best practices of both journalism and scholarship, and to increase public knowledge and understanding.
The Annenberg Political Fact Check is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg in 1994 to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state, and federal levels.
The APPC accepts NO funding from business corporations, labor unions, political parties, lobbying organizations or individuals. It is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation.
Brooks Jackson
Director, Annenberg Political Fact Check
Brooks Jackson is a journalist who covered Washington and national politics for 34 years, reporting in turn for The Associated Press, the Wall Street Journal and CNN. At CNN he pioneered the “adwatch” and “factcheck” form of stories debunking false and misleading political statements starting with the Presidential election of 1992. His investigative reporting for The AP and the Journal won several national awards. He is the author of two books: Honest Graft: Big Money and the American Political Process (Knopf, 1988) and Broken Promise: Why the Federal Election Commission Failed (Twentieth Century Fund: 1990).
Kathleen Hall Jamieson, PhD
Director, Annenberg Public Policy Center
Dr. Kathleen Jamieson, Elizabeth Ware Packard Professor at the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania, has written extensively on the press, politics, and presidential campaigns. Her research into deceptive political TV ads produced techniques that are now in common use in TV “adwatch” stories. Among the many books she has authored are: Dirty Politics: Deception, Distraction, and Democracy (Oxford University Press, 1992) and Everything You Think You Know About Politics…and Why You’re Wrong (Basic Books, 2000).
Current Staff
Emi Kolawole
Staff Writer, Annenberg Political Fact Check
Emi Kolawole earned her B.A. in international relations and theater studies from Wellesley College and studied abroad at both the Panthéon-Sorbonne and the National Theater Institute. She joined the Annenberg Public Policy Center in November, 2005 after working as a news researcher at Congressional Quarterly on issues of defense, foreign policy, intelligence and homeland security. Previously, she was a production assistant at PBS’s “NOW With Bill Moyers,” and worked in the Washington area office of a defense contractor.
Justin Bank
Researcher, Annenberg Political Fact Check
Justin Bank earned both his B.A in Political Science and Public Communication and his M.A in Applied Politics at American University. He joined the Annenberg Public Policy Center in October, 2005 with various experiences across the public affairs spectrum. He has worked in the newsroom at the New York Post, assisted the Director of Communications for the AFL-CIO affiliated seniors advocacy group the Alliance for Retired Americans, and has worked for a boutique public relations firm specializing in health care policy.
James Ficaro
Researcher, Annenberg Political Fact Check
James Ficaro earned his B.B.A. in Finance at the University of Texas in 2003. After finishing his undergraduate work, James moved to D.C. and received his Masters in Public Policy from the George Mason University School of Public Policy in 2005. He joined the Annenberg Public Policy Center in September 2005 with previous experience on Capitol Hill and as a Professor in the Communication Department of George Mason University.
Brigitte Y. Tapp
D.C. Office Manager, Annenberg Public Policy Center
Brigitte Y. Tapp worked previously as office administrator for a subcontractor on the $3-billion Woodrow Wilson Bridge project. She also has been an executive administrative assistant in the D.C. government’s Office of Prevention and Youth Services, and at the National Association of Broadcasters and the Minority Media and Telecommunications Council. She is a member of the National Association of Executive Secretaries and Administrative Assistants (NAESAA), the National Association of Female Executives (NAFE), the National Association of Office Managers, and the International Association of Administrative Professionals (IAAP), Capital Chapter.
http://www.rayrobison.com
March 6th, 2006 at 10:08 amDarn it ! I am bummed that it was RR’s bed time. I was DYING to ask him about those “Captured Documents†that he kept alluding to. I wonder, was it a fearsome battle ? I assume those documents must have put up one HELL of a fight ! And since these were “known†Al-Queda documents, I want to know if they were sent to Guantanamo Bay, for immediate “interrogationâ€, by the CIA. I hope they didn’t try “waterboarding†the captured documents, they might not have survived it. Oh well, maybe next time. ;)
Comment by Cyra Brown — March 6, 2006 @ 2:23 am
your lack of wit does not change the fact that these documents were captured in combat operations in Afghanistan and are one of the few releases of de-classified intelligence about al-Qaeda
March 6th, 2006 at 10:12 amThe US spends more on defence than the rest of the world combined. China has NO military bases outside its borders, the US has tons. To get an idea of what it has overseas, consider that the US military has its own ski resort in Bavaria, and a fleet of gulf jets to fly high level brass around the world.
China has increased its military spending, but for a long time into the future its main challenges will be economic. Furthermore, the hybrid socialist-capitalist regime they have means that providing basic social services (education, transport, medical care and so on) continues to be a priority that CANNOT Be SHIRKED. Government is not a dirty word there. Anyone saying that he/she wants to shrink the government down to the size of a bathtub and drown it will be seen as a psychopath there, unlike in the US.
The Chinese have about 150 outdated nuclear warheads; US has enough to detroy the world six, seven times over.
So, everything considered: Pls tell me, how is China a threat to the US?
March 6th, 2006 at 10:15 amWhat a liberal loon. No wonder why the democrats have a jackass for a symbol.
March 6th, 2006 at 1:15 pmAmerica has no war on drugs its actually the world biggest heroin supplier which it sells to destabalise foreign societies, It seems quite routine for american diplomats to carry 25 KG in their suitcases
March 6th, 2006 at 2:17 pmNice one IRAN
“Iran’s transparent cooperation with the IAEA inspectors and IAEA Deputy Director General Olli Heinonen’s trip to Iran, which led to the two positive paragraphs in ElBaradei’s report on Iran’s good cooperation with the agency’s inspectors, were effective in convincing members of the IAEA Board that Iran has behaved appropriately toward the IAEA. However, the U.S. and other Western media disseminated false reports over the past few weeks, saying that Iran has refused to accept inspections.â€
LINK
March 6th, 2006 at 2:33 pm#184- And just because YOU have no sense of humor, it doesn’t mean that it wasn’t funny. It’s called “perspective”. Perhaps you could develop some ?
March 6th, 2006 at 3:08 pmRay Robison,
Its about the bigger picture, not a slice in time you can be technically correct about.
March 6th, 2006 at 6:17 pmGo Murtha! But it’s more than that. Wake up! This administration has been about ONE THING and one thing only. The religious right agenda, the wars-for-oil, the subversion of the media, etc …all smokescreens. This administration only took power to do one thing: TO TRANSFER THE PUBLIC WEALTH OF THE RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD INTO PRIVATE HANDS.
March 6th, 2006 at 7:22 pmThis admin has been straight-arrow loot-and-pillage on an epic scale. If Guiness had a world record book of crime, this is it, folks, the crime of the millenia. The wealth of the wealthiest country has already been looted and diverted from the public coffers of the federal state treasury and banked in the accounts of private contractors, armament industries, communication and energy companies, favorite drug companies (what do you think the Medicare change was about?), lobbiests and private buddy corporations during the last 5 years.
What’s truly horrifying is is wasn’t just the surplus the admin inherited or revenue from the last 5 years. This deficit will have our kids and grandkids enslaved and endebted throughout their lifetimes. The services designed for their benefit have been and will be cut to fix this ‘money problem.’ That’s a killer coup, eh? Not just to steal the money, but to steal it in such a way that an entire nation will work 2-1/2 lifetimes, with far fewer safety nets, to try and replace it. Complete with tax cuts that insure that they and theirs won’t be the ones responsible for paying back any of it!
Period. That’s what all about, the erupting scandals, Bush never vetoeing a bill, that’s why we went to war. It’s all about the money.
We’ve all been hosed, by leaders who haven’t hesistated to leave 3 generation of American tax payers naked and bleeding on the ground, and 1000s of people dead and bleeding in the sands of the Middle East.
It’s too late. We’re all screwed and they’re rich beyond a glutton’s wettest dream. They stole America’s money. We let them. It’s gone.
Better wake up before the administration finally figures out how to transfer Social Security — the last, vast, untapped oil field of federal and public monies — into the pockets of the brokerage house.
Senator Murpha hates America!!!
THe iraqians and the iranians are fighting furiously because they all no they are soon to be free!!!!
Murpha is a communist sympathiser who should go back to Russia!!!
March 6th, 2006 at 9:26 pmThe Real American does not speak English.
March 6th, 2006 at 10:28 pmIf this is indeed The Real American, it isn’t surprising considering the state of the country today.
March 7th, 2006 at 8:00 amSo most you here agree that staying longer in Iraq is a problem. This blog’s opinions can be safely said to represent the majority views of the general american public and anyone with enough common sense.
Rep Murtha of Penn. hits the nail on the head, most people here who know what’s going on agree with that. If pretty much the rest of America save the few white house people and supporters, know what needs to be done, what are you going to do about it now? Its one thing to talk about it and finally come to conclusions on a blog. Its quite another to make it happen.
Looking at the stubborness of the White House, and the freq break up of non violent protesting against the war, it is tempting to think that non violent methods are not being effective, and a people’s revolt, violent it may be, will be the only feasible option to save this country.
If the country is fast going down the path of ruin, will it be too little, too late if you all decide to just use non-violent civil disobedience and the vote to change the leadership of the country?
March 7th, 2006 at 9:26 amI don’t like violence myself, but as an outsider reading all this there doesn’t seem to be much time left for your country to pull out of the mess that it has already dug for itself.
#196 – AR,
March 7th, 2006 at 12:27 pmThe crux of the matter is that the framers could not conceive of a condition where people of self-interest and greed could take over all three branches of government and allow the Executive to ignore the Constitution and the laws of the Legislative while the Legislature does nothing to question what is happening. In actuality, there are about twenty individuals who have colluded in order to destroy this country and nothing can be done until there is another election cycle. Further this is based on the premise that the election is far and square. The last three cycles (2000, 2002 and 2004) have been fraught with fraud.
China is a threat in this way.
Having the biggest, best and most dangerous weapons one earth, along with the biggest military does not in fact make you powerful.
I’m sure the Chinese have a colorful saying for this. Something about tigers.
All of the biggest, best and powerful military COSTS MONEY, TIME AND ENERGY!!!!!
Ever play the game RISK?
Sometimes sitting on the side and not getting into expensive wars is the best way to win the game.
China now owns substantial sections of the US economy. We are, in fact, deeply in financial debt to China.
They wait, while we bleed to death. They wait while our military expansion bleeds our bankroll dry. They wait while our military expansion empties our diplomatic relations.
They wait. Then, as the US begins to feel the weight of our hubris, they call in our debt.
End of the game. China wins.
March 7th, 2006 at 2:23 pmOh and does anyone know of a good online Mandarin language course.
I’d be brushing up on that if I were you.
That is, if the Chinese want us for anything besides cleaning their toilets and taking care of their kids while they are off at the country club.
March 7th, 2006 at 2:26 pmThat is why as a Southeast Asian I feel we have good reason to worry about China. They could become the next Japanese of WW2 in modern times once they realise they got a lot of power but lack of military adventures.
Your country rescued us by forcing the Japs to take it up in the asses hard with two nukes. Given the Japanese refusal to apologise even today for their savage war crimes unlike Germany, reminds us we have a lot to owe to your country for. Even your ‘wasted’ involvement in Vietnam actually kept the commies busy so by the time they could try spreading their bullshit to Thailand and the rest of the region, USSR couldn’t support them by then.
It is indeed sad that our ‘hero’ is now rendering itself incapable to do the same thing, should China do the same as what the Japs did in WW2 by, as Murtha says, draining all its resources.
And just because China suffered terribly in terms of the Rape of Nanking and other horrors under the Japs, doesn’t mean they will not resort to their own brand of savagery when they conquer this region.
That was why when I heard there were no WMDs, I thought, ‘Shit, GTFO of there fast once you get Saddam, GTFO before Iraq becomes your quagmire man.’
As you can imagine I have been left disappointed as the casualties rise, the IEDs now have armour piercing power, and those who did fight are not getting their veteran benefits.
Its too bad I am non-American otherwise I would have signed up to the military to REBUILD it fast once you guys can clear out the shit in the White House. I wish you guys best of luck in those (GOP/congressional or whatever)elections this 2006.
The idea of Americans doing domestic chores for the Chinese is something that should not be allowed to come to reality.
March 7th, 2006 at 5:38 pmReplying to WaltTheMan,
Unfortunately, just like the unforseen style of attack i.e. crashing buildings with planes; you guys didn’t see it coming.
Someone needs to carry around some real hard bitter medicine to throw at the problem now. I admit not having a decent clue of how this ‘hard bitter medicine’ should be like. Damn.
Maybe I do. I have fantasized before of the entire population and army doing what the Romanians did against Nikolai Ceaucesceu and his megalomania. This happens because the elections were rigged until the leader gets a third term. Patience steps over breaking point.
Imagine Abrams tanks with their guns aimed at the White House. Then when the deposed leaders try to escape from the White house by helicopter, an Apache blows them out of the sky, ending the bullshit. Pwnage. Not only that, Americans filled with righteous anger drag out the likes of Rush and beat them up while Abrams use their weight and guns and demolish news stations that have, as you guys have said before, drunk “Republican Kool Aid”.
That was my imagination running wild. Hope you guys don’t let it come to that point, lol. A lot of innocent people would die in the violence. For this one time let the ‘democratic’ process be really democratic.
March 7th, 2006 at 6:05 pmLet’s say that the minor, indirect link between Saddam and Al Q. is fact. It is clear that there was no love lost between them, and Saddam was not a major contributor/influence. Otherwise, there would be more than one or two oblique bits of evidence.
The important thing (and it surprises me that the “smartest man alive” isn’t the first to say this), is that we are spending substantially more on swatting this gnat than we are on ALL other anti-terror efforts combined. As far as effectiveness goes, we did much more damage to Al Q. in a month in Afghanistan than we have in years of fighting in Iraq. Everyone agrees that most of our effort in Iraq is spent dealing with Iraqi-centric sectarian issues, and some small percentage of global terrorists. The question isn’t whether we are making ANY impact on terrorism in Iraq, it is how terribly small that impact is vs. the expense. The so called conservatives love to talk about spending efficiency. I would like to hear them reconcile this $300 BILLION and counting price tag to vanquish a tiny Iraqi threat, when most other fronts are in serious state of neglect.
OK, I can’t help but address the slandering of Murtha on this issue. All this guy is saying is that on the face of it we are squandering resources desperately needed elsewhere to do the real work. This is a man who, unlike ANYONE in the administration, has actually risked his life for his country. Not only has he gone when asked, he VOLUNTEERS when the fighting starts! Not to get a scholarship, and then, “bummer i have to fight”. But volunteers BECAUSE there is fighting. It makes clear how callow the conservative support for bravery and honor is, when they attack a man like this as a traitor, communist etc. To the degree that others inthe Republican party allow this, they are a disgrace to everythiing America stands for.
March 8th, 2006 at 11:06 am$300 billion is a hell of a lot of money, its ridiculous. And its growing every minute. That is why I say that peaceful protesting and non-violence might be too little too late.
March 8th, 2006 at 5:59 pmMurtha is the guy who walks the talk. If he has lost his mind, well at least he would still be better off guarding the asylum than staying in it.
Keep up the good work, Murtha!
March 12th, 2006 at 10:29 pmI respect John Murtha for his military service and his many years of public service to the nation.
HOWEVER,
He has gone overboard and is way off course with very little understanding of whats going on in Iraq from a troops standpoint.
The war on terror in Iraq is going fine and we are winning, make no mistake about it. Unless of course you call some nutjob planting a bomb in a public place while innocents wander by into its path a victory.
Its not only cowardly but its wearing thin with the Iraqi people as they start to realize the ‘insurgents’ arent fighting the US, they are fighting peace and democracy.
And Murthas recent comments accusing American marines of cold blooded Murder of innocent women and children will be his final rant.
May 18th, 2006 at 2:24 pmhe has brought his own tenure to its timely end, and not a moment too soon.
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February 12th, 2007 at 9:54 am