Depends on What the Meaning of ‘Know’ Is
Depends on What the Meaning of ‘Know’ Is
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, today:
I will say this about Iran. They are currently putting people into Iraq to do things that are harmful to the future of Iraq. And we know it.
Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Peter Pace, moments later:
PACE: The most recent reports have to do with individuals [from Iran] crossing the border into Iraq.
QUESTION: Do you believe it’s backed by the government or are they individual elements not backed by the central government?
PACE: I do not know.
Confused? All is answered below the fold:
The Unknown
by Donald RumsfeldAs we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don’t know
We don’t know.—Feb. 12, 2002, Department of Defense news briefing
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If for nothing else, Rummy is useful for his poetry
March 7th, 2006 at 7:29 pmWell if it’s the same certainty of WMD in Iraq, then we are in for another bloody mess. I guess I need to re-think my evaluation of what is possible with these f**ks.
March 7th, 2006 at 7:30 pmAs predicted yesterday, the Senate Intelligence Committee today confirmed its status as a rubber stamp for the White House. The Committee, led by staunch Bush ally Pat Roberts (R-KS), rejected vice-chairman Jay Rockefeller’s call for an investigation of the President’s illegal NSA domestic spying program.
For the full story, see:
March 7th, 2006 at 7:30 pm“Senate Intel Committee Caves on NSA Inquiry.”
Known: Rumsfeld has got some SKILLZ!
March 7th, 2006 at 7:30 pmSo is Rumpsfeld claiming a no no, or a no know?
March 7th, 2006 at 7:31 pmIs Peter pushing poop at a prodigious Pace?
Irascible Iran iritates irresponsible and erratic idiots, irregardless…..
I have a silly question: Why do all the official statements by the US government (including on the Senate floor) on the Iranian situation forget to mention that the US sponsored the overthrough of their government in 1953?
They’ll mention that it used to be a democracy, but then just skip over that little fact. Strange. Wouldn’t something like that have a bearing on the current situation? I think that if that happened to us, we’d probably think about it differently?
From wikipedia:
March 7th, 2006 at 7:36 pm
Encore, RafterRot, encore!!
March 7th, 2006 at 7:40 pmWell, if we want the full, unsourced, undocumented truth about everything pertaining to Iranian evil, presented as current when it is an old story, we can look to ABC’s Brian Ross:
http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/
The meme of the Rummy group, that Iran is at the bottom of everything that is wrong in Iraq, is just popping up everywhere.
March 7th, 2006 at 7:40 pm“putting people into Iraq to do things that are harmful to the future of Iraq.”
It’s a good thing Rumsfeld and co never did anything like that.
March 7th, 2006 at 7:44 pmThis is the initial Ramping up stage for war in Iran. They are already linking weapons caches bound for Iraq with Iran. Soon they will present something the American public should fear here at home more than the Nukes they want to build. Then the ball wont stop.
March 7th, 2006 at 7:46 pmDoes anyone believe that if we go to war with Iran that the Draft wont be reinstated??? And if so,does anyone really believe even 1/4 of those drafted will show up??? Id be willing to bet most parents and families would rather take up arms against another lost cause war then roll the dice with thier loved ones lives.
…and besides that, if they did know…it would be CLASSIFIED!
March 7th, 2006 at 7:56 pmWhat army are we going to invade Iran with? I am being serious our army is stretched so thin, the pentagon is worried about maintaining current troop commitments let alone another 150,000 for combat in Iran. I doubt after Iraq, that another coalition of the willing is going to form up.
Maybe the draft is next.
March 7th, 2006 at 8:02 pmDont make fun of clinton :)
March 7th, 2006 at 8:02 pmR2K
Bathrooms
I have no doubt that Iran is infiltrating people across the border. Hell, they’ve surely been doing it for the last 3 years, and it’s taken these geniuses in the Bush administration this long to fucking figure it out.
After all, if China was occupying Mexico, don’t you think we’d be infiltrating agents and operatives into that country? This was one of the reasons I opposed invading Iraq in the first place.
March 7th, 2006 at 8:16 pmI hate to say it, but I understand Rummy’s quote. It’s worded in a way that makes it pretty convoluted, but when you break it down – it makes sense.
As for the “moments later” – I wish the press would pressure Rummy on that exact moment.
March 7th, 2006 at 8:33 pmnot the first time Pace had contradicted Rummy, is it? I seem to recall them disagreeing on whether it was one’s responsibility not only not to torture, but whether one had the responsibility to stop it or prevent it…
Rummy also knew Iraq had WMDs north, south, east and west… remember how that worked out?
March 7th, 2006 at 8:47 pmhttp://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=HAA20060306&articleId=2067
In 1976, President Gerald R. Ford signed a directive that granted Iran the opportunity to purchase U.S. built reprocessing equipment and facilities designed to extract plutonium from nuclear reactor fuel.
When Gerald Ford assumed the Presidency in August 1974, the current Vice President of the United States, Richard B Cheney served on the transition team and later as Deputy Assistant to the President. In November 1975, he was named Assistant to the President and White House Chief of Staff, a position he held throughout the remainder of the Ford Administration.[1]
In August 1974, the current Secretary of Defense, Donald H. Rumsfeld served as Chairman of the transition to the Presidency of Gerald R. Ford. He then became Chief of Staff of the White House and a member of the President’s Cabinet (1974-1975)[2] and was the Ford Administration’s Secretary of Defense from 1975–1977.
The current President of the World Bank, Paul Wolfowitz served in the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency under President Gerald Ford.[3] Wolfowitz is considered as a prominent architect of the Bush Doctrine, which has come to be identified with a policy that permits pre-emptive war against potential aggressors before they are capable of mounting attacks against the United States.
According to Washington Post Staff Writer Dafna Linzer, “Ford’s team endorsed Iranian plans to build a massive nuclear energy industry, but also worked hard to complete a multibillion-dollar deal that would have given Tehran control of large quantities of plutonium and enriched uranium – the two pathways to a nuclear bomb. Either can be shaped into the core of a nuclear warhead, and obtaining one or the other is generally considered the most significant obstacle to would-be weopons builders.â€[4]
What the current Bush Administration is asserting, particularly through its news agency Fox News, is that it needs to prevent Iran from achieving the exact same nuclear capabilities that President Ford and his key appointees, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz were encouraging Iran to accomplish 30 years ago. Iran, a party to the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, is guaranteed the right to develop peaceful nuclear power programs – regardless of whether the United States approves or disapproves the politics or political leadership of that country; a point that Iran has repeated over and over again. For 30 years, Iran has proclaimed that it needs nuclear power since its oil and gas supplies are limited, just like the United States, and therefore has the legal right to produce and operate nuclear power plants. Thirty years ago, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld agreed. Today, Cheney and Rumsfeld appear to be crawling out of their skins with uncontrollable militarized lust for control of Iranian oil fields via a U.S. occupied, Iran.
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Sheet Man eets da Nuke-lear Trojan thang
ya durn fools stop reedin historie oar Whut?
damm bumps onna log
March 7th, 2006 at 8:54 pmCrumbsfeld would gladly blow-up American troops or innocent civilians to further his and Bush’s agenda.
Troops in Iraq, watch your ass, Dr. StrangeRumsfeld will double cross you and leave you to the wolves.
-GSD
March 7th, 2006 at 9:08 pmUncle Sam Wants You! (Praise the Lord too!)
http://www.sss.gov/
Reminding folks of this possibility is a great pre-election “talking point”. Way more “emotional” than abortion. The “right” don’t wanna talk about it.
It’s kinda fun to bring up the need for a draft to pro-war flag waiver type folks. (Especially if they think ya might be on “their” side- praise the Lord.) Try it and see the reaction. “They get all wierd.”
I’d like to know where Hannidy (?), Rush, and that ilk is at with conscription?
March 7th, 2006 at 9:11 pmPlease add this to the list:
March 7th, 2006 at 9:17 pm“Unknown Knowns”: Things that I know, you know, and everybody else knows, but that this administration seems blissfully and completely unaware of; the things they really don’t want to know.
I wonder why Iran would do that? It’s not like Pres. Bush went to Asia and told a country which is not Muslim that it would be good if they developed their nuclear industry since they’re not a signatory to the NNPT and adjacent to another country,largely Muslim,also not a signatory to the NNPT,but they were warned not to develop their nuclear industry because we worry about what might happen if the strongman running that country were to be replaced.
March 7th, 2006 at 9:24 pmMeanwhile,a Muslim country which is a signatory to the NNPT,adjacent to a country we invaded and sharing the religious sect of the majority of the country we invaded,is threatened that if they further develop a nuclear industry which we helped them to launch with a light-water reactor,albeit years ago,we will have sanctions imposed through the UN or we might launch an attack against them perhaps in conjunction with a strong ally of the US,which the country adjacent to the country we invaded has said should be wiped from the face of the earth,but which has nuclear weapons and is also not a signatory to the NNPT.
No,if I were Iran,I couldn’t think of doing anything to thwart the objectives of the US,even if I could. It’s not like we insulted them or threatened them or anything.
jocutus, you made my evening.
March 7th, 2006 at 9:35 pm‘Excuse me Mr.Rumsfield,who do you mean by ‘we’? ‘Do you and gen.pace ever talk?’
March 7th, 2006 at 10:02 pmTrue answer would have to be: “I’m Sec.of Defence,and Pace is just a General, I don’t have to talk to him. He has to listen to ME. My lies supercedes his lies.”
Nice post & link #17
March 7th, 2006 at 10:20 pmRummy, Cheney and Gonzales all in the same day. What a treat for democracy, the rule of law and human rights!
March 7th, 2006 at 10:41 pmAnd let’s not forget what Rumsfeld “knew” when he talked to Stephanopoulos back in March 2003. Here’s what Rummy said about Iraqi WMD:
Source
March 7th, 2006 at 10:53 pmKman,
I thought the WMDs were shipped to Syria. So, they aren’t in Syria? You mean Rumsfeld said “We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat,” but didn’t mean that?
Why would Rumsfeld lie to us? If he isn’t lying then they didn’t have good intelligence. They wouldn’t take us to war with faulty intelligence would they?
Would they?
March 7th, 2006 at 10:59 pmRummy (The poster child for geriatric dementia) should heed what the ancients said when they said: “Reap what thy sow and inherit the whirlwind.” He has done it once in Iraq. A foray into Iran could make Katrina look like a mild zephyr. Is the Vatican the next target in the axis of evil? Surely a division or two could stand off the Swiss Guard. Then the College or Cardinals could be organized into an opposition group to challenge Pope Benedict XVI.
March 7th, 2006 at 11:07 pmRumsfield is equating any sort of ‘help’ that Iraqi Shiites get from Iranians as help from the Iranian STATE. Rumsfield is trying to make it seem like the Supreme Leader, The Guardian/expediency Council, Revolutionary Guards, etc (the preznit and their lower council don’t count for anything) because those prior three do make the all important decisions. They also disagree, alot. Right now their main concern is keeping enrichment in Iran.
Are Iraqi Shiites getting help from Iranians? YES. I mean, what do you expect? That individuals will not cross the border to kill Sunnis for massacring them, etc? That elements of the military, paramilitary police, etc wouldn’t quietly give them some explosives? (this is the shaped charge argument – which can be constructed by anyone with explosives training, of which many of the Iraqi Shiites do having served in the IRANIAN fighting Iraq).
General Pace isn’t grouping individuals actions and saying “hey, it’s been okayed by the high up folks so the state is in on it”. He’s saying he doesn’t know that is the case.
The ‘right’ question to ask would be to ask if individual iranians were helping Iraqi Shiites and in what ways. You would have gotten an affirmative on the first part and a ‘no comment’ on the second.
March 7th, 2006 at 11:20 pmThis is my favorite part:
You hear this crap on the “news” all the time.
He was a tallish short guy.
He was a skinny heavy set man.
He hard dark lightish hair.
They were somewhere in their 20s to 40s.
The suspect is either white, black or hispanic.
March 7th, 2006 at 11:24 pmAh, but if he invaded the Vatican he’d have quite a few angry Catholics. Hey, Italians doing battle with the Americans. Now there’s a thought. That and South America rising up against us…
The military scenarios that have been looked at (as disclosed by the guy who helped do them – which all failed to take out all nuclear targets) DO NOT envision an invasion. Rather it’s an air war against their nuclear sites.
PROBLEM: nuclear sites, except for the unfinished reactor, are deep underground. The Iranians actually got/bought advice from the North Koreans who are experts in that field (although they’re not experts on making things grow from fields…). You CANNOT destroy some of those facilities with conventional weapons with 100 percent confidence. The other issue is that Iran has really spread out its nuclear sites and we definately don’t know about all of them (also brought up by the guy that ran the scenarios for the pentagon – anyone else remember his interview?).
Anyway an air war with Iran (we’d destroy their air force and eventually their SAMs after losing a number of our own) would lead to Iran reaking havoc in Iraq through their proxy militias.
March 7th, 2006 at 11:26 pmHere’s agood one:
Rumsfeld on the Egyptian Minister of Defense:
How the fvck long can you meet someone. You have either met them or you have not met them. You can’t meet someone for a long time.
How the hell did these people become our leaders?
March 7th, 2006 at 11:27 pmSpudge:
Around here we get ‘alerts’ on crime. It’s always a ‘young black male’ generally ‘carrying a handgun’ did such and such…all persons are advised to take proper safety precautions.
The joke around here is if the victim is ever black they’ll describe him the same way. Actually they never seem to do alerts on the white on white crime…a bit odd. Then again our entire police force hovers in the ‘ghetto’ allowing us white folks to do whatever the hell we please being confident that the black folks are circled in for the night by our police.
Yah, the south. Got to love it.
March 7th, 2006 at 11:29 pm#32
Not directly related to Rumsfield but I like the Bushisms so much better since it makes him look incompetent at the start.
Example: Pakistan is supposedly one of our closes allies in the war on terror. Bush has spent years cozying up to the General, err, no….he doesn’t care about Afghanistan or Bin Laden anymore. Oh well.
Anyway, he managed to address all the Pakistanis as Arabs. I guess Bush thinks that all muslims=arabs or that it’s interchangable. Hmm, distinct impression that Bush enjoys cutting brush more than looking after his wars.
March 7th, 2006 at 11:32 pmRummy, Cheney and Gonzales!
Oh my.
-Dorothy
March 7th, 2006 at 11:41 pmRumsfeld is a war criminal, so send him to GITMO to be tortured with all the innocent Iraqi cab drivers and Afgan farmers he had abducted! Force feed him and water board him!
March 7th, 2006 at 11:52 pmWho would complain if Saint Paul’s was leveled and that lewd statue of David was reduced to dust. Shock and awe – take out the treasures of Christianity, just as have been many treasures of the cradle of civilization and the Islamic world. The Bush administration has neither a heart and nor a soul.
March 8th, 2006 at 12:03 amWho would complain if Saint Paul’s was leveled and that lewd statue of David was reduced to dust. Shock and awe – take out the treasures of Christianity, just as have been many treasures of the cradle of civilization and the Islamic world. The Bush administration has neither a heart nor a soul.
March 8th, 2006 at 12:04 amJudd,
March 8th, 2006 at 12:07 amThere’s a bug in your filter. I canceled a post and it still was posted.
Rummy need to punished, but come on torture is extreme measure. Rummy and the hole Bush crime family will be served and America will once again be looked up to. We just need to win in November, and Impeachment and war trials will be enacted.
March 8th, 2006 at 12:07 amRummy must have written this kids skit:
March 8th, 2006 at 12:13 am‘Early in the morning in the middle of the night, two dead boys got up to fight, they faced each other,back to back,drew their swords and shot each other. A deaf policeman heard all the noise, and came and shot the two dead boys.’ My daughter loved it, and can still say it.
Comment by wisedup — March 8, 2006 @ 12:13 am
If you don’t believe this story is true, ask the blind man, he saw it too.
-GSD
March 8th, 2006 at 12:18 amWisedup, like the name you should tell that to Rummy “wise up”. For that matter the hole bastardized adminstration.
March 8th, 2006 at 12:20 amIt’s somewhat obvious what these guys are doing. Even the village idiot could see this. Rumsfeld says he “knows” there is infiltration from Iran to Iraq. He also “knew” there were weapons of mass destruction in Eye Rack! If anyone thinks these guys are not queing for a bombs and bullets scenario in Iran I have stories I want to tell you about the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny. I “know” they’re real too…unh huh.
March 8th, 2006 at 1:01 amRumsfeld and Cheney can blather on and rattle sabers all they want in their pathetic attempt to distract us from their crushing defeat in Iraq. As a consumer of an obscenely disproportionate percentage of the world’s oil production, a U.S. attack on Iran would be tantamount to national suicide. Production and shipment from the Persian Gulf would be disrupted for the foreseeable future precipitating the collapse of the already shaky U.S. economy.
March 8th, 2006 at 1:25 amDefense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
March 8th, 2006 at 2:53 amWhat a genius this guy is.
He’s now so old that he should get someone else to speak for him.
Thats the way the cookie crumbles with illegal wars good on Iran
March 8th, 2006 at 4:47 amand I spose thats a bit of the 75 million paid out towards Discrediting Iran, He we go again , its about to kick off
America the Bullies of the World
Yesterday there were proven documents seen by John Snow BBC reporter America asking help from Iran with Iraq
http://www.channel4.com/news/special-reports/iran.html
All Bullshit get out of Iraq now your not welcome dont come crying to me
March 8th, 2006 at 4:51 ambushes commanders have not softened Iran up yet like they did Saddam,six months of bombing raids to take out the air force and communications.If he sends in ground troops it might be a real war(I can just see him gleefully rubbing his hands together).Sometimes I wonder if the whackos are really trying to induce “armagaedon”.We know who is playing the part of the antichrist.
March 8th, 2006 at 6:50 am#40 hey wisedup, I know a poem that’s remarkably similar – they must have had a common origin
One fine day in the middle of the night
two dead men got up to fight
one blind man to see fair play
one mute man to shout hooray
a legless donkey came running by
kicked the blind man in the eye
knocked him through a nine inch wall
into a dry ditch and drowned them all
It’s very, very old. This was told to my father 75 years ago by his uncle who knew it when he was young.
March 8th, 2006 at 8:22 amRummy ” Are you going to believe me, or your lying eyes”
March 8th, 2006 at 9:42 amRumsfeld, meet Dr. Strangelove.
March 8th, 2006 at 10:38 amPace is the “good soldier” but at what point does the “good soldier” have to resign rather than follow the orders of the insane men at the top? Pace contradicts himself as much as he contradicts Rummy.
Rummy has lost his mind — he contradicts himself, Pace, the troops, not to mention facts staring him in the face. I have come to believe that he remains in place because he has the ability to contradict himself, lie, and play role required without flinching.
#40, never heard that before — it’s priceless and pretty well describes Rumsfeld’s verson of fact.
March 8th, 2006 at 10:40 amIn Rumsfeld’s case, it’s a “known known” that he has to deal with the media with the intellectual equipment that he already has, even if it is a bit flimsy, like the Pentagon supplied body armour for US grunts in Iraq. If General Pace has “doublethink malfunction” then that is of no concern to Pentagon Pops. When will Bible loving Americans realise that rendition, torture, murder and the slaughter of innocents are the Bush administration’s way of bestowing god’s gift of democracy upon Iraq, while crippling the US economy,boosting arms sales to whoever has the cash, and making shareholders in Carlisle Gp, Halliburton, Kellog Brown Root etc. exceedingly rich?
The light bulb that occassionally flickers in Rumsfeld’s skull is Donnie’s idea of global warming. It’s time Americans flipped his switch, permanently. Relentless high-powered bullshit from Pentagon Pops can only be countered when enough citizens are unafraid to speak truth to power. Polls are one thing, but actions speak louder than words. The last chance we have to salvage what is left of American democracy is by takin’ it to the streets in our millions. Even this mob will hesitate to slaughter and maim American citizens in front of hundreds of thousands of video cameras duct-taped to demonstrater’s crash helmets. These swine are incapable of playing by a constitution that they have effectively trashed. If we want our country back we are going to have to stand up and be counted in our millions. Since the stolen election of 2000, US Democracy has been doing a Terri Schiavo. Good night,and good luck, Columbia.
March 8th, 2006 at 4:45 pmIn Rumsfeld’s case, it’s a “known known” that he has to deal with the media with the intellectual equipment that he already has, even if it is a bit flimsy, like the Pentagon supplied body armour for US grunts in Iraq. If General Pace has “doublethink malfunction” then that is of no concern to Pentagon Pops. When will Bible loving Americans realise that rendition, torture, murder and the slaughter of innocents are the Bush administration’s way of bestowing god’s gift of democracy upon Iraq, while crippling the US economy,boosting arms sales to whoever has the cash, and making shareholders in Carlisle Gp, Halliburton, Kellog Brown Root etc. exceedingly rich?
The light bulb that occassionally flickers in Rumsfeld’s skull is Donnie’s idea of global warming. It’s time Americans flipped his switch, permanently. Relentless high-powered bullshit from Pentagon Pops can only be countered when enough citizens are unafraid to speak truth to power. Polls are one thing, but actions speak louder than words. The last chance we have to salvage what is left of American democracy is by takin’ it to the streets in our millions. Even this mob will hesitate to slaughter and maim American citizens in front of hundreds of thousands of video cameras duct-taped to demonstrater’s crash helmets. These swine are incapable of playing by a constitution that they have effectively trashed. If we want our country back we are going to have to stand up and be counted. Since the stolen election of 2000, US Democracy has been doing a Terri Schiavo. Good night,and good luck, Columbia.
March 8th, 2006 at 4:52 pm