Brzezinski on Iraq: “American Leadership, In All Of Its Dimensions, Has Been Damaged”
Brzezinski on Iraq: “American Leadership, In All Of Its Dimensions, Has Been Damaged”
Yesterday, former National Security Advisor Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski gave a speech on the Iraq war at the Center for American Progress. Some choice excerpts –
On the politics of fear:
But it is a part of this atmosphere of Manichean polarization which is being bred by a phony definition of reality. Neither President Truman nor Eisenhower – Democrat and Republican – ever spoke of America being a “nation at war†during the Korean War. Neither President Johnson nor Nixon ever spoke of America being a “nation at war†during the Vietnam War. Yes we have a serious challenge from the potential threat of terrorism and we have to wage an unrelenting struggle against it. But to describe America repeatedly as a nation at war – implicitly of course with a commander and chief in charge – is to contribute to a view of the world by America that stimulates fear and isolates us from others. Other nations have suffered more from terrorism than America. None of them has embraced that definition of reality.
On the Bush administration’s Iran policy:
We are not negotiating with the Iranians. … We will not touch the Iranians. Why not? Are we perhaps trying to prevent a compromise? Do we really want Iran to desist, or do we want to drive it into extremism? It surely cannot be our deliberate intention to fuse Iranian nationalism with Iranian fundamentalism. But that is precisely what we are doing.
On the costs of the Iraq war:
The war has proven to be prohibitively costly. American leadership, in all of its dimensions, has been damaged. American morality has been stained – in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. American legitimacy has been undermined – by unilateral decisions. American credibility – particularly the case for the war, has been shattered. Leadership depends on morality, legitimacy, credibility. The economic costs of the war are escalating into hundreds of billions of dollars. More importantly, American casualties are in the thousands, with more than tens of thousands maimed. We are not even counting Iraqi casualties; we prefer not to know what they are.
Read the whole thing.
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Well said. Perhaps a big billboard across the street from the whitehouse could be installed with these words printed on it. Of course, the language would need to be dumbed down first.
March 17th, 2006 at 12:26 pmBush has been exploiting the fear that followed 9/11 for almost 5 years now. People say that Iraq will be his legacy. I think his legacy will be his immoral exploitation of the 9/11 attacks for venal political ends.
March 17th, 2006 at 12:26 pmAmerican leadership, in all of its dimensions, has been damaged. American morality has been stained – in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. American legitimacy has been undermined – by unilateral decisions. American credibility – particularly the case for the war, has been shattered.
This is George W. Bush’s legacy.
March 17th, 2006 at 12:28 pmYes we have a serious challenge from the potential threat of terrorism and we have to wage an unrelenting struggle against it. But to describe America repeatedly as a nation at war – implicitly of course with a commander and chief in charge – is to contribute to a view of the world by America that stimulates fear and isolates us from others.
Throughout America’s adventure in free government, our basic purposes have been to keep the peace; to foster progress in human achievement, and to enhance liberty, dignity and integrity among people and among nations. To strive for less would be unworthy of a free and religious people. Any failure traceable to arrogance, or our lack of comprehension or readiness to sacrifice would inflict upon us grievous hurt both at home and abroad.
Progress toward these noble goals is persistently threatened by the conflict now engulfing the world. It commands our whole attention, absorbs our very beings. We face a hostile ideology — global in scope, atheistic in character, ruthless in purpose, and insidious in method. Unhappily the danger is poses promises to be of indefinite duration. To meet it successfully, there is called for, not so much the emotional and transitory sacrifices of crisis, but rather those which enable us to carry forward steadily, surely, and without complaint the burdens of a prolonged and complex struggle — with liberty the stake. Only thus shall we remain, despite every provocation, on our charted course toward permanent peace and human betterment.
Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961
March 17th, 2006 at 12:30 pmCheck this out.
Not only can lobbyists (and their friends) BUY and promote FEAR, you can also BUY APPEASEMENT….
The magazine said the PAC grilled officials in the presence of foreign secretary Riaz Mohammad Khan and special secretary Sher Afghan on the money paid to lobbyists.
“The disclosure sheds doubt on the integrity and honesty of the members of the 9/11 inquiry commission and, above all, the authenticity of the information in their final report,†it said.
The report quoted an officer as saying that dramatic changes were made in the final draft of the inquiry commission after the lobbyists got to work. The panel was formed to probe the September 11 terror attack and make suggestions to fight terrorism.
After the commission tipped the lobbyists about the damaging revelations on Pakistan’s role in 9/11, they contacted the panel members and asked them to go soft on the country. The Friday Times claimed that a lot of money was used to silence these members.
According to the report, the lobbyists also helped Pakistan win the sympathy of 75 US Congressmen as part of its strategy to guard Islamabad’s interests in Washington. “US softened towards Pakistan only because of the efforts of the foreign office,†an official was quoted as saying in the report.
The Pakistan foreign office defended the decision to hire the lobbyists, saying it was an established practice in the US.
An observer at the Islamabad meeting said money could play an important role in buying powerful people. The remark came in response to comments made by some US officials after 9/11 that “Pakistanis will sell their mothers for a dollarâ€.
Pakistan had emerged as front-runner in the fight against terrorism unleashed by the US after the terror strikes. Washington pumped in billions of dollars to win President Pervez Musharraf’s support in launching a crackdown on al Qaida network thriving on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.
March 17th, 2006 at 12:34 pmBrez just called Bushco Stupid
How dare he INSULT THE KING!
March 17th, 2006 at 12:37 pmleadership, credibility, morality, defensive capabilities and much more… what a great time to be an American…
March 17th, 2006 at 12:44 pmLooks like Zbiggy has seen the light!
Republiscum Bushites: “Creating reality” since 2000…
…patent pending…
Copyright 2006
March 17th, 2006 at 12:45 pmThe Pakistan foreign office defended the decision to hire the lobbyists, saying it was an established practice in the US.
Delay can tell you this is 100% true.
We have been sold out America. Saudi Arabia + Pakistan should be our primary focus. Afgahnistan was just an outpost and Iraq had nothing to do with it…mean while Saudis and Pakistanis are our “allies against terror!!!!” LAUGH..
1) Pakistan has the MUSLIM bomb…and they are are talking about plastic explosives. Do we call our nukes “Jesus bombs”?
2) Osama = Saudi. 911 terrorists = Saudis. Many of the foriegners in Iraq killing US soldiers = Saudis.
Much of the money funneled to the 911 terrorists came from … Pakistan/Saudi Arabia.
And then there is this for incase you think it might be just a couple bad apples in Saudi Arabia …
http://www.nationalreview.com/document/document042602.asp
And that all has to make you cringe when you see this …
March 17th, 2006 at 12:53 pmIt’s sickening. All this in the name of American imperialism, corporate profits, and oil. The Bush administraion is the single greatest threat to our country and the rest of the world. It’s depressing.
March 17th, 2006 at 12:54 pmIf someone gives a speech and no one hears it, does it even matter.
You can’t make the American people listen. You can’t make the American people come to your web site. In both those cases we assume they have some basic knowledge, easy and affordable access, and time. There are a large number of American people that have a figurative megaphone in their ear, that costs them nothing, that the radical right has access to and uses on a daily basis. Have you ever driven across the country, driven in rural areas. It Rush or Rush-like 24×7.
A lot of burnout from all that is going on is coming from the acknowledgement of the problem (i.e., this speech), but seeing everything staying the same; and the message is not getting to a very large number of people.
I believe, as terrible as things are, the 2006 and 2008 elections will be the same as the 2000 and 2004 elections. No one is held accountable, lots of lies and propaganda, and we’ll see the typical swift-boating and personal attacks which is the right is so good at. Whatever the Democrats are or are not doing, it is not working in today’s America.
And here’s a thought, if the folks in the gulf are so mad about the government over the failures to this day over Katrina (and they should be), I ask, did they vote, are they engaged?
March 17th, 2006 at 12:55 pmHave you ever driven across the country, driven in rural areas. It Rush or Rush-like 24×7.
Comment by Jack — March 17, 2006 @ 12:55 pm
That’s all I was able to get last year in Utah, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico and every southern state when I was more than 100 miles from an urban center. You’re dead on – they are fighting a war in the media and we’re not able to provide balance. This Capitalism nonsense isn’t working very well. We need something else that values people rather than money, prestige and consummerism.
March 17th, 2006 at 1:00 pmThis country will only change after some catostrophic event. WWIII, oil collapse, bird flu, massive climate change, etc. It will take something that serious for the American people to awaken. And I am afraid one, if not all, of these events are coming in the not to distant future.
March 17th, 2006 at 1:00 pmAnd here’s a thought, if the folks in the gulf are so mad about the government over the failures to this day over Katrina (and they should be), I ask, did they vote, are they engaged?
Comment by Jack #11
Jack,
you make some very valid observations…
…but there is hope…
…study the electoral maps from Bush I vs. Clinton up til 2004…
…you’ll see a shift in America’s mid section from blue to red, and in southern states like Ark and La from blue to red…
…Ohio was blue, so was New Hampshire…
…after bushiva and L’il dick’s fiascos of the past five years…
…if the former blue states that somehow turned red don’t return to blue status…
…Progressives should flood Washington, D.C. and demand secession from those idiot bushite inbreds, as well as cutting off subsidies to their dumb inbred as*es…
…blue states are carrying these red state morons anyway…
Texas and Florida are the only red states making any money for themselves…
March 17th, 2006 at 1:07 pmPeople should not be affraid of their governments. Governments should be affraid of the people – V
March 17th, 2006 at 1:08 pmThe Bush policy:
“Bogga Bogga Bogga!”
“Ooooh! Scary scary scary!”
“Look over there!”
“God Bless Amerika”
March 17th, 2006 at 1:09 pmThe people in the Gulf may not all have voted (we have pretty abysmal turnout in the whole nation), but that does NOT mean they deserved their fate. A lot of them, being poor people of color in the South, probably didn’t have a lot of fith in the voting process. And a lot of the poor also can not take the time to go vote (working two or more jobs to make ends meet is common) on a Tuesday. Weekend voting would help.
Does it matter if we vote when the machines counting the votes are rigged? Let alone the vote-taking machines. If the tabulation software has been corrupted, even voting absentee doesn’t help.
We need an independent body to watch over our voting process from beginning to end. We should have a petition going now to get the UN to oversee our voting in 2006 and 2008, since otherwise we know what we’ll get.
March 17th, 2006 at 1:11 pmThis country will only change after some catostrophic event. WWIII, oil collapse, bird flu, massive climate change, etc. It will take something that serious for the American people to awaken. And I am afraid one, if not all, of these events are coming in the not to distant future.
Comment by Neal — March 17, 2006 @ 1:00 pm
I should be grading something, but I’m not in the mood for the apathy of the youngest generation right now. So I was reading some articles on Global Warming and that sort of impending doomsday stuff thinking the exact same thing. That until something horrific happens, and we’ve been driving the car straight for a whole lot of horror, that nothing will matter really, or change.
Just look at the events leading up to every major political event in history – it’s never the proverbial calm before the storm…
March 17th, 2006 at 1:12 pm#13, Neal,
My own (alas science-fiction-sounding) hope is that we will be contacted by extraterrestrials who will have no knowledge of “God” or “Jesus,” among other things. They should be as effortlessly powerful, warm, peaceful and absolutely accomplished and brilliant as possible and by mere example shame us into admitting that we aren’t as far from dung-slinging apes as we would have liked to have thought.
March 17th, 2006 at 1:12 pmI am a little troubled by the tone on which this speech ends. Although the Democrats deserve serious criticism for being timid rather than strong, I don’t believe that they are the “most” troubling as Brzezinski says. They were not the ones that executed this disastrous policy and they didn’t have the control of Congress to stop it even if they had wanted to. They are culpable, but no more than the American people, and not as culpable as the Republicans. It is good to distribute criticism, but in so doing, let’s not lose our sense of relativity and priority.
March 17th, 2006 at 1:14 pmDr. Zbigniew Brzezinski knows of which he speaks. And he is indeed well spoken on this topic.
March 17th, 2006 at 1:15 pmI think that the catastrophe bearing down on us faster than any is the economic meltdown.
We borrow like drunks, spend like millionaires, and lower taxes so the debt cannot be paid. Other countries expect to be able to cash in on the money they lend us, the bucks we issue are backed by our man-made and natural resources. As those bucks end up in foriegn hands, they expect to be able to use them to purchase our resources. That obligation being on the head of every citizen for 30,000 bucks per person, and my only resources are in my house, in effect somebody else owns more of my house than either I or the bank owns.
And they can cash it in, believe me. When the economy begins to bend beneath the unbearable weight of the debt, they will come to you and I for the money to pay it.
March 17th, 2006 at 1:22 pmWho else? We, the citizens, will have to pay it. I know that 30K isn’t much for the average millionaire, but it’s my whole pie. When that happens, I for one will find the nearest rich man and take my 30k out of his republican hide.
Soooo if all these so called Biggie Politicans in Washington DC really gave a rats azz about this country they would haul everyone of these Neo Cons out of Washintton DC and into a Federal prison for War Crimes and War profiteering…
These Goons and That’s what they are .. Have got to be impeached and Jailed.
March 17th, 2006 at 1:23 pmThey should be as effortlessly powerful, warm, peaceful and absolutely accomplished and brilliant as possible and by mere example shame us into admitting that we aren’t as far from dung-slinging apes as we would have liked to have thought.
Comment by Glenn Becker — March 17, 2006 @ 1:12 pm
Thanks for the laugh… after this week, I needed a big one!
Though a few of them enslaving greedy holier-than-thou folks like Jerry Falwell and Dick Cheney would really be a nice bonus…
March 17th, 2006 at 1:24 pm# 18 and 19-
Check out this book by Thom Hartmen. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1400051576/sr=8-1/qid=1142619669/ref=sr_1_1/002-0233663-7303223?%5Fencoding=UTF8
It is called “The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight: Revised and Updated : The Fate of the World and What We Can Do Before It’s Too Late”. It explains the dire situations we are headed full speed into and what needs to be done to stop it.
One quick fact I have learned from the book: Before the discovery of oil and coal, the human population was about 500 million. This is the number that the Earth can support without us delving into the planet’s energy “savings account”. Today’s population is about 6 billion people. Thus, 5.5 billion of us are SOLELY dependent on oil and coal for our survival.
Anyway, it is an awsome book. And I would suggest it to anyone who cares about mankind’s future. CHECK IT OUT!!!
March 17th, 2006 at 1:26 pmHere is the book’s brief summary:
Book Description
March 17th, 2006 at 1:29 pmWhile everything appears to be collapsing around us — ecodamage, genetic engineering, virulent diseases, the end of cheap oil, water shortages, global famine, wars — we can still do something about it and create a world that will work for us and for our children’s children. The inspiration for Leonardo DiCaprio’s web movie Global Warning, The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight details what is happening to our planet, the reasons for our culture’s blind behavior, and how we can fix the problem. Thom Hartmann’s comprehensive book, originally published in 1998, has become one of the fundamental handbooks of the environmental activist movement. Now, with fresh, updated material and a focus on political activism and its effect on corporate behavior, The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight helps us understand–and heal–our relationship to the world, to each other, and to our natural resources.
Another fact from the book:
The current estimate (that is even accepted by oil companies) is that there is about 45 years left of oil on the planet. Some experts say this estimate is inflated because it does not take into acount the growing rate of consumption in the world (China has doubled its intake of oil). These experts reduce the figure to about 30 years left of oil. Scary stuff, huh?
March 17th, 2006 at 1:34 pmWhat will be the Bush legacy? I think it will be setting the bar for being the worst president in our history.
March 17th, 2006 at 1:37 pmThat’s all I was able to get last year in Utah, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico and every southern state when I was more than 100 miles from an urban center. You’re dead on – they are fighting a war in the media and we’re not able to provide balance. This Capitalism nonsense isn’t working very well. We need something else that values people rather than money, prestige and consummerism.
Comment by unbelievable
I was listening to NPR the other day and a woman was going on about how she thought it was not a good idea to go to lesser known colleges NOT because they didnt teach as well but because she didnt think she would have the “prestige” of having a name brand college on her resume… that mentallity shows what is wrong with America today… appearances mean more than substance… as a kid growing up I was “trash” because I didnt have the latest name brand clothes… now the same applies to colleges…presidents… political parties…
March 17th, 2006 at 1:39 pmIt is refreshing to hear intelligent, thoughtful, and experienced foriegn policy analysis instead of the drivel that we get from the incompetent cowboys in chief that strut around flashing their six-guns and acting like 10 year olds.
The tide is turning though which means it is critically important to now re-double the efforts to get the truth out there and to make certain that the monumental incompetence is washed out of washington. And, so that the message remains clear for future republicans and democrats, these criminals MUST be publically held accountable.
March 17th, 2006 at 1:45 pmNow if the Good Dr. “Z” had ANYTHING positive to say about the leadership and resolve of the current administration – THAT would be news. (WOW a speech at the Center for American Progress – who’da thunk??) Alas, he reminds me of his anemic, impotent former boss, Mr. Jimmeh.
March 17th, 2006 at 1:46 pmIt is called “The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight: Revised and Updated : The Fate of the World and What We Can Do Before It’s Too Lateâ€. It explains the dire situations we are headed full speed into and what needs to be done to stop it.
Comment by Neal — March 17, 2006 @ 1:26 pm
Neal, I read it last summer. I was optimistic at first (just as we all are after Ishmael too), but as time has gone by, I am again certain that change only happens when forced upon the masses, and very, very rarely by choice.
March 17th, 2006 at 1:48 pm#20 Comment by Dave
I agree with Brzezinski. The Democrats should have stood up as often as possible and forcefully told the Republicans and the American public where the case for invading Iraq was phony and where the “war on terror” was phony. The public would then have this voice in their head saying, “Hmm, there’s a lot of disagreement over this invasion and this so-called war on terror. Maybe I should evalutate what Bush and the Republicans are saying and not just accept it at face value.” This is key. There has to be an end to this believers syndrome. People have to want to read articles from multiple sources and not just scan the Faux Pnews headlines. As another person posted, I’m worried the 2006 and 2008 elections will just continue this national nightmare because nothing is changing people’s thinking and understanding. The opposition MUST be a real opposition, not just someone sitting back waiting for the other guy to fall. Bush falls all the time. No one cares. He gets up and does something else stupid.
March 17th, 2006 at 1:56 pmI was listening to NPR the other day and a woman was going on about how she thought it was not a good idea to go to lesser known colleges NOT because they didnt teach as well but because she didnt think she would have the “prestige†of having a name brand college on her resume… that mentallity shows what is wrong with America today… appearances mean more than substance… as a kid growing up I was “trash†because I didnt have the latest name brand clothes… now the same applies to colleges…presidents… political parties…
Comment by Gerald Gibson — March 17, 2006 @ 1:39 pm
I’m 39 and I have to admit that I have felt that way myself.
Like you, I too came from humble beginnings. And I went to a lesser name school (though the Dean of Architecture was from Harvard). But I worked hard and managed to get jobs at some of the ‘better’ architecture and design firms. Yet, despite my abilities, my ivy league collegues routinely acted as if they had a superior education and were therefore better, smarter and more competent than I. Even my boyfriend at the time, who came from even more humble beginnings, would routinely say things to make me feel like I was some how not as capable because I didn’t go to Harvard like he did.
I agree, it’s appalling. And one of the minor reasons I left the profession. I had hoped to make an impression on high schoolers than value comes from integrity and not the kind of shoes you wear…
Though, Gerald, I frequently think we are better off with integrity than the commodoties, because most of the happiest people I know aren’t stressed out by keeping pace with the Joneses. :)
March 17th, 2006 at 1:56 pmNewsflash – Preznit Georgie Georgie Pie Bush responded to Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski’s speech today.
March 17th, 2006 at 1:57 pmUnbelievable, I understand completely what you mean. Just look at human history. Most recently Hurrican Katrina. We were warned for years and years that waht exactly happened would happen. We are a society that only attempts to fix things after the matter. I am afraid, however, that there will be no second chance when it comes to oil collapse and global warming.
March 17th, 2006 at 1:59 pmRead Brzezinski’s “The Grand Chessboard”. Brzezinski is on the same side as Bush and formed most of his foreign policy. The only thing wrong to Brzezinski was the execution of the attempt to control power in the middle east.
March 17th, 2006 at 2:01 pmWe are a society that only attempts to fix things after the matter. I am afraid, however, that there will be no second chance when it comes to oil collapse and global warming.
Comment by Neal — March 17, 2006 @ 1:59 pm
Yes. Sad really, to have evolved this big brain, and still be a bunch of monkeys… :)
People are arrogant, I believe, at the hands of organized religion to think that their god will save them, and that humanity will never cease to exist. That’s why they have to pretend that the dinosaurs are a hoax… and that extinction will never happen to them.
March 17th, 2006 at 2:05 pm#12 – “This Capitalism nonsense isn’t working very well. We need something else that values people rather than money, prestige and consummerism.
Comment by unbelievable
*****And what do you suggest, oh wise one?? Eco/Socialism????…and re-education “camps’ for “evil” capitalists pigs?????
March 17th, 2006 at 2:07 pmUnbelievable, on the topic, there is going to be a documentary tomorrow on CNN called WE WERE WARNED. It will discuss our addiction to oil and global warming. However, it will probably try and be “balanced” and spend half the time talking about the bullshit Bush/conservative view on the issue. But I think it’s worth checking out.
March 17th, 2006 at 2:08 pm#11, Very few people actually heard lincolns Gettysburg address, the house divided speech, Washingtons farewell address, Patrick Henry’s give me liberty or give me death, Nathan Hales one life to give. In the long run speeches not hear by many can still resonate long into the future if they get reported on and if they stand for something that spurs people to action. Perhaps one day one of these profound statements will come out of someone’s mouth and it willr esonate with the people loud and clear.
March 17th, 2006 at 2:09 pmNeal,
Thanks for the tip. I’ll try to remember… but, I have been ignoring my television lately (except when I remember the Daily Show). Do you know what time it’s on?
March 17th, 2006 at 2:14 pmBush Co. and Congress are meat-puppets of elite profiteers. These profiteers make more money from fear and conflict than from peace – much more! And these greedy, heartless profiteers currently have SO MUCH MONEY that they can buy the government of the U.S. and other governments as well. It is time to de-claw these obscene money-grubbers and nationalize key citizen supporting industries (oil, power, prisons, military hardware, etc). NASA is a government run “industry” with a decent track record and many other countries have nationalized key citizen supporting industries already. It is time for America to wake up. The real global terrorists live – AND THRIVE – here in America.
March 17th, 2006 at 2:15 pmUnbelievable, religion can be quite dangerous. When you care more about the so-called “after life” and less about the present, your priorities become misplaced, which only contributes more to the degeneration of our planet.
March 17th, 2006 at 2:16 pmI think after we watch the show that #40 mentioned, the only words likely to resonate
March 17th, 2006 at 2:17 pmwith the people loud and clear is “Run for the Hills!”.
Unbelievable, here is the link to the show http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/presents/
March 17th, 2006 at 2:18 pmKen Livingstone, the Mayor of London, launched a stinging attack on President George Bush last night, denouncing him as the “greatest threat to life on this planet that we’ve most probably ever seen”.
March 17th, 2006 at 2:22 pmNeal,
I’ve been reading some of the posts over at iidb, and some one posted a forum on whether or not atheists value life more than after-life oriented religions because we (I’m an atheist) do not believe there’s anything else, while they believe this life is juts a test.
I thought the best answer was from a guy who said that it’s not a question between Atheist or Theist, but a personal view dependent on each person and what they value. Though, as far as generalizing, statistically, and based on personal experience (recovering ex-Christian), I think that those who think this life is all there is are more inclined to make the most of it.
March 17th, 2006 at 2:23 pmUnbelievable, here is the link to the show http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/presents/
Comment by Neal — March 17, 2006 @ 2:18 pm
Gracias!
March 17th, 2006 at 2:24 pm#44 – Unbelievable, religion can be quite dangerous. When you care more about the so-called “after life†and less about the present, your priorities become misplaced, which only contributes more to the degeneration of our planet.
You put this very well.
Religion has a nasty habit of taking someone’s words, reinterpreting them, and telling others what they “really” mean. Once a religion is established, the tendency is to then “protect” against “others”.
Sad, really. If you meet someone who somehow discovered that religion lies, and that gods/godesses reside within us at absolutely no cost to us but in potentially infinite joy right now in this vary moment it can be a life changing experience. Very remarkable, actually.
March 17th, 2006 at 2:25 pm#31 If there was anything good to say about this adminsitration and their actions it might be possible for Viggy to say something positive. But alas, there is nothing positive happening ever.
March 17th, 2006 at 2:28 pmBush reiterates first-strike policy
Undaunted by the difficult war in Iraq, the US president has reaffirmed his strike-first policy against terrorists and enemy nations and said Iran may pose the biggest challenge for America.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/F435A943-C57C-4C7E-B38B-7A9ADC772BD9.htm
March 17th, 2006 at 2:29 pmYou put this very well.
Thanks :)
Religion has a nasty habit of taking someone’s words, reinterpreting them, and telling others what they “really†mean. Once a religion is established, the tendency is to then “protect†against “othersâ€.
Yeah, good point – it really is a very defensive stance – that acts very defensively, assuming the worst in others and reflexively reacting as if we are all inclined to evil by will. And, since the reality is that if we assume we are bad, then we behave badly.
Sad, really. If you meet someone who somehow discovered that religion lies, and that gods/godesses reside within us at absolutely no cost to us but in potentially infinite joy right now in this vary moment it can be a life changing experience. Very remarkable, actually.
Comment by Jesus Christ God of WAR — March 17, 2006 @ 2:25 pm
Hey, interesting. I regularly say that we are all our own gods :). Because really, we each control ourselves, therefore we are each the supreme ruler of our own lifes. And really, if you are a god, why wouldn’t you be anything but a loving and peaceful god?
March 17th, 2006 at 2:31 pmUnbelievable, I agree, (I would call myself a nothingist) but if I was religious I would view this life more important then the “after-life” because this planet is “God’s creation”. People who care little about the planet and its environment, are not only contributing to the pitfall of mankind, but are also insulting God to the fullest.
March 17th, 2006 at 2:32 pmPeople who care little about the planet and its environment, are not only contributing to the pitfall of mankind, but are also insulting God to the fullest.
Comment by Neal — March 17, 2006 @ 2:32 pm
A nothingist… funny :). I like ‘naturalist’ myself… but hardly anyone knows what that is. They don’t talk about it on reality or desperation television…
I agree. If there is a god or gods, they are being insulted by the abuse to ‘creation’. Mind if I use that one?
March 17th, 2006 at 2:37 pm#12 – “This Capitalism nonsense isn’t working very well. We need something else that values people rather than money, prestige and consummerism.
Comment by unbelievable
*****And what do you suggest, oh wise one?? Eco/Socialism????…and re-education “camps’ for “evil†capitalists pigs?????
March 17th, 2006 at 2:38 pm*****And what do you suggest, oh wise one?? Eco/Socialism????…and re-education “camps’ for “evil†capitalists pigs?????
Comment by mighty aphrodite — March 17, 2006 @ 2:38 pm
I saw the post the first time you posted it MA.
March 17th, 2006 at 2:40 pm#52
Good point!! Native Americans believed in their religion that their God had KEPT them in their Garden of Eden and it was there duty to respect it and take only what was needed. On the contrary, in Christianity, the Bible says that humans were BANISHED from the Garden of Eden into a world of evil and destruction. Well that right there is the problem. Evil and bad things in this world become excusable and accepted.
March 17th, 2006 at 2:40 pmmighty aphrodite-
Don’t be so quick to judge. Unbelievable has a valid point. Think about it, don’t just revert to macarthyite response.
March 17th, 2006 at 2:50 pmaww, we were doing such a good job of ignoring tinyaphrodite too.
Oh well, there’s always next week (unless bushco finds a way to kill us all).
March 17th, 2006 at 2:50 pm“By some estimates,” according to a recent article in Foreign Affairs, “the number of Iraqis who have died as a result of the [U.S.] invasion has reached six figures — vastly more than have been killed by all international terrorists in all of history. Sanctions on Iraq probably were a necessary cause of death for an even greater number of Iraqis, most of them children.”
March 17th, 2006 at 2:51 pmAnd your answer is for a suggested economic utopia is???……nothing…..figures…..
March 17th, 2006 at 2:52 pmmighty aphrodite-
I do not have all the answers to the world’s problems, but the discussion is needed.
March 17th, 2006 at 2:59 pmWould you not agree?
March 17th, 2006 at 3:03 pmI agree…
March 17th, 2006 at 3:05 pmNative Americans believed in their religion that their God had KEPT them in their Garden of Eden and it was there duty to respect it and take only what was needed. On the contrary, in Christianity, the Bible says that humans were BANISHED from the Garden of Eden into a world of evil and destruction. Well that right there is the problem. Evil and bad things in this world become excusable and accepted.
Comment by Neal — March 17, 2006 @ 2:40 pm
I’m dealing with restless natives right now… my last class is challenging… :)
I like your comparision between the two. And the consideration that we still live in the garden. This is an incredibly beautiful planet. How anyone would want to chop down the Redwoods or pave a road through Yosemite is beyond me.
And any time you can say ‘The Devil made me do it’ to get yourself out of accountability, you’re not being responsible.
March 17th, 2006 at 3:11 pmThe Politics of Iraq…
Yesterday Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski gave a speech at the Center For American Progress on Iraq. In that speech Brzezinski scolded Democrats about not having a plan:
March 17th, 2006 at 3:12 pmWhat troubles me the most is not that which that I have criticized, but that which hasn’…
And your answer is for a suggested economic utopia is???……nothing…..figures…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite — March 17, 2006 @ 2:52 pm
No such thing as a ‘utopia’ in real life. Therefore no answer to your question. Would be like you asking me my answer to what to do about flying invisible unicorns…
Plus, I really don’t see a need to feed you. You’re only interested in trying to derail the conversation and get attention. Not contribute. You wanna contribute without being derisive? I’m open. Just ask IRI. Otherwise, I have daily practice on ignoring disruptions.
March 17th, 2006 at 3:17 pmAnd what do you suggest, oh wise one?? Eco/Socialism????…and re-education “camps’ for “evil†capitalists pigs?????
Comment by mighty aphrodite — March 17, 2006 @ 2:38 pm
That sounds so Horowitz; tell me, were you also a marxist in college? Is that why you’re so warped? Projected self-hate?
March 17th, 2006 at 3:21 pmUnbelievable, there is a lot we can learn from Native Americans and other tribal peoples (without having to revert back to caves and huts). This is also talked about in The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight. These communities knew/know how to live sustainably (not to mention the fact that they enjoyed far more rest and liesure than do workers in the industrialized world. It is a common misconception that they lived hard, laborious lives.)
March 17th, 2006 at 3:24 pm#65 – …[I like] the consideration that we still live in the garden. This is an incredibly beautiful planet….
There is also an incredible garden within us. The world around us is a reflection of the world within. Or so it would seem.
If just a few of the so-called christians would do what a few passages in the Bible tell them to do, things would be better for everyone.
March 17th, 2006 at 3:26 pmNeal,
Great point. I remember that the book also mentioned how tribal people were healthier and lived longer than their Industrialized counterparts. Not surprising. After all, stress is slow suicide…
I spent 5 weeks last spring, when I moved from San Francisco back to Atlanta, on the road through the most scenic routes I could find. It was me, my two cats, 5 houseplants and a dyson strapped to the roof :).
At the end of the 5 weeks, I had the hardest time being inside. It was so confining and depressing… I really don’t know how we ever so willingly surrendered the garden for this man made life style.
March 17th, 2006 at 3:34 pmThis is an incredibly beautiful planet. How anyone would want to chop down the Redwoods or pave a road through Yosemite is beyond me.
Greed and money is the answer. People carry the misconception that money is the root of all happiness. If people believe they can make money from building a road in Yosemite Valley, then they’ll do whatever they can to accomplish that goal. They look past the awe-inspiring beauty of the valley and any value it has to the human psyche or spirit. They are concerned only of its monetary value. Money blinds.
March 17th, 2006 at 3:35 pmThere is also an incredible garden within us. The world around us is a reflection of the world within. Or so it would seem.
Comment by Jesus Christ God of WAR — March 17, 2006 @ 3:26 pm
Nice :). Reminds me of the Gospel of St. Thomas. Have you raed it?
March 17th, 2006 at 3:36 pmi wonder how long it took this guy to figure out that our america and leadership has been damaged? or unless he knew but was scared to get whacked for speaking out against bushco….that seems to be a common theme if one does. the majority of us knew back when, uh, um, well let’s see…..when bushwhack was appointed NOT elected. these poiticians are weak sauce and i will not vote for a single one. i’m going out on the limb for some fresh blood come november. they had their chance with me and hopefully others and it’s to late. time is up and you lucked out.
March 17th, 2006 at 3:39 pmThey are concerned only of its monetary value. Money blinds.
Comment by Neal — March 17, 2006 @ 3:35 pm
Very sadly true… It is all about money.
Well, I gotta run. My car battery died this morning, so I have to catch a ride home with a colleague and he leaves at the bell….
Very nice talking to you guys. Will be back later…
March 17th, 2006 at 3:39 pm“your luck ran out” ooops!
March 17th, 2006 at 3:40 pmThe world around us is a reflection of the world within
Very true. We have a pretty ugly relfection.
March 17th, 2006 at 3:41 pmHunter/gatherer cultures have almost zero mental problems as well. Has any one read why zebras don’t get ulcers by Robert M. Sapolsky?
He basically says that the stresses that cause ulcers in humans, don’t effect animals, because the type of things that cause that sort of stress on a wild animal will usually kill the animal, long before it can develop ulcers. I am sorry if that is bit wordy, but I could not think of a better way to describe it.
on a side note I have read Ishmeal, and do agree with much of its premise.
March 17th, 2006 at 3:42 pmUnbelievable, nice talking to you. Catch ya later
March 17th, 2006 at 3:42 pm#73 – Yes. And few other texts which fundies of all kinds would not like as well. Mertons, de Chardin, and a few others.
Ever read anything from the great Sufi saints? ibn Arabi? Rumi? Hafiz? Hallaj? They speak beautifully about the garden within. It’s almost as if they had direct first hand experience. Fundie Muslims don’t seem to like Sufis in their midst.
Ever read anything from a few well known 20th century saints from India? Yogananda-ji? Neem Karoli Baba? Ramana Maharshi? Nisargadhata Maharaj? Like their Sufi counterpart’s influence on Islam, these people had an impact on traditional Hindu thought. Again, something about the garden within.
March 17th, 2006 at 3:43 pm#77 agree, we become a product of our enviorment. and take a look at us now, nothing to brag about that is for sure. we have lost our kudos.
March 17th, 2006 at 3:44 pmHave you guys read Walden. Henry David Thoreau is one of my all time favorite philosophers. He talked a lot about this subject.
March 17th, 2006 at 3:45 pmDear Neal – How did you get to Yosemite to enjoy the beauty of the valley?
March 17th, 2006 at 3:46 pmMy idea for an economic utopia?
March 17th, 2006 at 3:47 pm1999.
#55 Mighty, “saw it the first time” Aphrodite,
Maybe it doesn’t have a name, or been thought about much yet, but clearly a system based on constant growth and consumption has got to reach a point where there is no more room to grow, and nothing left to consume. Quit being such a fraidy cat, things won’t stay this way forever you old bat.
March 17th, 2006 at 3:49 pmYes Neal drove a car, used gas, and polluted on his way to Yosemite. THe point is, we need to get over the status quo and get on to new ways of “going to Yosemite”.
March 17th, 2006 at 3:54 pmKrazny-
Good point. We have become machines/or worker ants in this industrialized world. We have forgotten how to live like humans. We are consumed with stress. We are always in a “rush, rush”/”hurry, hurry” psycholgical state of mind. The industrialized world is a very “unhuman” place. Unfortunately, the U.S. is the best example.
That is why nature is SO important to our psyche! It is a place where we can excape, revitalize, and find peace-of-mind. We cannot survive physically OR MENTALLY without nature.
March 17th, 2006 at 3:54 pmmighty aphrodite-
Have you ever been to Denali National Park in Alaska??? Check out there transportation system for the public. There is ONE dirt road and scheduled hourly buses are the only things that can take you into the park. And you know what? I had the best experience there than I did at any other national park I have ever visited!
March 17th, 2006 at 3:57 pm……There was NO traffic, NO fumes, NO asphalt, and we saw an amazing amount of wildlife from the road. You actually felt like you were escaping from the modern world.
March 17th, 2006 at 4:02 pmmighty aphrodite-
Do you like the traffic, the fumes, and the sprawling parking lots in Yosemite valley? Do you gain more from the valley when you have those experiences?? Is the park more enjoyable that way?? Don’t those things diminish its beauty at all?
March 17th, 2006 at 4:13 pmHead up to whistler BC in the summer and take the gondala to the top of the mountian. Now that is a pretty place to relax
March 17th, 2006 at 4:14 pmYesterday, former National Security Advisor Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski gave a speech on the Iraq war at the Center for American Progress. Some choice excerpts –
On the politics of fear:
But it is a part of this atmosphere of Manichean polarization which is being bred by a phony definition of reality.
A phony definition of reality? Huh? What the hell does that mean? And what was Ziggy doing talking to a bunch of Red Diaper Radicals anyway?
But here’s the clincher. Why should America care what the Euroweasels or the Marxists think about us and the way we handle our business? There’s plenty of real people out there that love us and funny that they all seem to be folks who know what it’s like to be under a repressive regime. Screw the Left Wingers and Ziggy to. We don’t need you.
March 17th, 2006 at 4:36 pm“American legitimacy has been undermined – by unilateral decisions.”
~Ziggy
Translation: We can not be deemed legitimate as long as we are determined to act in our own best self interest and do not get the blessing from the Transnationalist Progressives.
Hey, Ziggy…fuck you and the pinko pony you rode in on.
March 17th, 2006 at 4:40 pmAphro, God will punish you for destroying this planet and not caring one bit for your fellow man. You are the antichrist; if one believed in all that jazz.
March 17th, 2006 at 4:43 pmI have been to Denali – beautiful place!! But I can’t help but get the impression that progs would love to have us return to the Hunter/Gatherer days. I know they had fire – but did they utilize the wheel??
March 17th, 2006 at 4:45 pmThat is why nature is SO important to our psyche! It is a place where we can excape, revitalize, and find peace-of-mind. We cannot survive physically OR MENTALLY without nature.
Comment by Neal
So true. There’s nothing quite as revitalizing as tearing through the woods in a 1000cc unmuffled 4X4 ATV and putting a .222 zinger right between the eyes of a furry woodland creature!
March 17th, 2006 at 4:45 pmI-RIGHT-I, you are fuckin funny! Get a life. Go try and get attention somewhere else. You people are the problem in this world. You dismiss environmnetalism as some whacky tree-hugger’s ideology. You couldn’t be more wrong. The environmental moveoment is in yours as well as everyone else’s best interest. Try and see the big picture for once! (and by the way, although I do no agree with those actions, I believe there SHOULD be a designated place for your types to do such things in a responsible manner) So don’t be so quick to judge, righty!!!
March 17th, 2006 at 4:53 pmDear PP- From you, I appreciate the supreme compliment. But after damning me to the hell you don’t believe in,please explain why ANYONE would give any credence to the ramblings of a failed former national Sevurity Advisor, Dr. Brzezinski. (I notice that progs love to differentiate themselves from the “riff-raff” with the exalted title “Dr.”)
March 17th, 2006 at 4:56 pmBut I can’t help but get the impression that progs would love to have us return to the Hunter/Gatherer days. I know they had fire – but did they utilize the wheel??
You are missing the point. We can learn from the basic principles those groups who have sustained themselves for over 10,000 years (I’m talking about Native AMericans and other tribal people) without reverting to caves and huts. Do you think the current way of doing things in our society will sustain us for 10,000 years?? You would be crazy to think they are.
March 17th, 2006 at 4:58 pmIRI almost nobody loves us out their in the big bad world except repressive regimes, ie Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Pakistan, Egypt, Libya, etc. the US currently is holding its place in a selection of countrys, that don’t maintain there place by repressing their citizens. If that is the company you would like to keep I htink you should move over there, think if the benefits, mulitiple wives, you can keep homosexuals under control, of course you in some places it is illegal to worship as a christian, but maybe you won’t mind it so much after a while.
We cannot cut ourselves off from the world, or the world will pass us by. china will be the next super power if were not careful, and we will be shipping cheap US goods.
I wonder if you have been anywhere besides Texas IRI, you should join the rest of the world, much of it is very pretty.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:00 pm***basic principles of those groups who have sustained themselves for over 10,000 years
March 17th, 2006 at 5:00 pmNeal – I had neighbours once who reminds me of you progressive thinkers. The NIMBYS bought a beautiful lot, paid the taxes on it and built a gorgeous house on it. A few years later, they were upset that someone else down the street was starting to build on property they had bought and paid taxes on. Neighbour NIMBY did everything to get the plans and permits scaled back – the phonies!! That is why I support the Nature Conservancy – they BUY (!!!) private land to preserve instead of the “takings” preferred by progs.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:03 pmEver read anything from the great Sufi saints? ibn Arabi? Rumi? Hafiz? Hallaj? They speak beautifully about the garden within. It’s almost as if they had direct first hand experience. Fundie Muslims don’t seem to like Sufis in their midst.
Ever read anything from a few well known 20th century saints from India? Yogananda-ji? Neem Karoli Baba? Ramana Maharshi? Nisargadhata Maharaj? Like their Sufi counterpart’s influence on Islam, these people had an impact on traditional Hindu thought. Again, something about the garden within.
Comment by Jesus Christ God of WAR — March 17, 2006 @ 3:43 pm
No, but thanks for the listof authors I will need to check out :). I spent some time studying Zen, and one of my best friends is from Mumbai, so I have learned about Hinduism from him. I love the expression ‘namaste’. His parents wanted me to come visit when he went in December, but it was bad timing. I promised that i would go the next time he went. I can’t imagine a country with numerous religions where everyopne celebrates everyone else’s holidays and festivals without prejudice. I know they have issues, but no one is perfect.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:04 pmAphro, God will punish you for destroying this planet and not caring one bit for your fellow man. You are the antichrist; if one believed in all that jazz.
Comment by progressive and proud
Way to throw that first stone PP!
March 17th, 2006 at 5:06 pmMaybe it doesn’t have a name, or been thought about much yet, but clearly a system based on constant growth and consumption has got to reach a point where there is no more room to grow, and nothing left to consume.
Comment by For Truth — March 17, 2006 @ 3:49 pm
Especially in a world with limited resources…
I told the kids last week that all the water in the world is all the water there is. Took a couple minutes, but you could see it hit them by the surprised looks on their faces. Was priceless :)
March 17th, 2006 at 5:07 pmmighty aphrodite-
First of all you do not know me. Don’t stereotype. Just cause one of your old neighbors you branded as “progressive thinkers” did that, doesn’t mean that I would do the same. And don’t think that they automatically represent “progressive values”.
Second,
That is why I support the Nature Conservancy – they BUY (!!!) private land to preserve instead of the “takings†preferred by progs.
I don’t quite understand this statement. What do you mean here?
March 17th, 2006 at 5:09 pmNeal- Do some research – you might be amazed to know how smoggy Los Angeles was before there was a Los Angeles. In portions of Ohio and Missouri , settlers were amazed about the levels of smoke stuck in valleys – the cause – those purist Indians. I have always believed in the good and bad in each society – but I have never been impressed with groups who set a deformed baby out to die or place a sick child on an ice floe. Your romantic ideals are sweet – there may be some truth to your notions, but quit feeling so damn guilty about breathing. Modern travel, which you bash, is responsible for saving and killing many. Please tell me you are not in college – and if you are – PLEASE tell me your mom and dad are not putting out their hard earned $$$$.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:11 pmI-RIGHT-I:
Do you want to have a constructive debate or do you just want to attack people??
March 17th, 2006 at 5:12 pmHave you ever been to Denali National Park in Alaska??? Check out there transportation system for the public. There is ONE dirt road and scheduled hourly buses are the only things that can take you into the park. And you know what? I had the best experience there than I did at any other national park I have ever visited!
Comment by Neal — March 17, 2006 @ 3:57 pm
Know you were asking Magda, but I would love to move to Alaska. Was there about three years ago this August. Had three sunny days in a row at the foot of McKinley. Was very fortunate. So anazing. Truly the Last Frontier. But who knows for how long? The wolves are at the gate for that tiny bit of oil, and eventually they will get in.
Did you also go downto Kenai Fjords? My brother was supposed to go with me, but bailed last minute (typical of him), but I wound up having a better time on my own because I met the coolest people and hung out with them. Another wonderful thing about traveling… meeting other people with unique and interesting adventures of their own.
Do you travel much?
March 17th, 2006 at 5:12 pmMany progressive groups buy land in and set it up for conservation. this happens in many states across this country. I think what (not so) might aphrodite is accusing progressives of, is taking the land without permission instead of purchasing the land. I am also unsure what her neighbor has to do with this whole issue, but it makes a nice straw man argument.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:14 pmI wonder if you have been anywhere besides Texas IRI, you should join the rest of the world, much of it is very pretty.
Comment by Krazny
I’ve been around a little and probably more countries than you. The world sucks and those countries you mentioned DO NOT love us. What planet do you live on? Those that we helped liberate do like the old eastern block countries and contrary to the MSM and Think Communist so do a vast majority of Iraqi people. I’m not a bit interested in what the dying cultures of Europe have to say and could not care less about the Marxist losers or Muslim headchoppers elsewhere.
Tell me, who hates us that we should be concerned?
March 17th, 2006 at 5:16 pmmighty aphrodite-
I’ll ask the same question to you:
Do you want to have a constructive debate or do you just want to attack people??
Don’t start attacking poeple personally and just being arguementative to be arguementative. It doesn’t help anyone.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:17 pmwithout reverting to caves and huts. Do you think the current way of doing things in our society will sustain us for 10,000 years?? You would be crazy to think they are.
Comment by Neal — March 17, 2006 @ 4:58 pm
Those damn extremes. I don’t get why everything we utter, the right has to take to the absolute fathest extremes that exists, when that was never what we said or intended…
I don’t want to live in the woods either. Unlike Madga who licks herself clean (her phrase), I enjoy a hot shower. But there are other, more sustainable methods than we currently employ, and I’m sure that that is what you mean as well.
Don’t worry about IRI, he’s jealous I’m in here talking to you instead of paying attention to him.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:19 pmI told the kids last week that all the water in the world is all the water there is. Took a couple minutes, but you could see it hit them by the surprised looks on their faces. Was priceless :)
Comment by unbelievable
They were scratching their heads wondering WTF you were talking about this time. That’d be my guess.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:20 pmNeal – Don’t be obtuse – of course I don’t know you – quit personalizing EVERYTHING!!! (I’ll start thinking you have a complex!) I’m sorry if I confused you, I apologize – I just laugh at how many progs “have theirs”(whatever that might be!) and want to make sure no one else gets what THEY may want. (But of course, I don’t know if you are like THAT! My example was for illustrative purposes only.)
the Nature Conservancy BUYS land to preserve – they do not pressure or lobby govenment to confiscate private property. Is that more clear????
March 17th, 2006 at 5:20 pmUnbelievable,
I know Alaska is freakin awesome. Did you hear that today the senate voted 51-49 to include ANWR drilling in the budget resolution? They failed last year and they’re trying again!!! Can you believe these people??
Anyway, ya I have been to Kenai Fjords. I went on small tour boat that left from Seward. It was so beautiful. We saw orcas, humpbacks, dolphins, and these rock islands with gigantic numbers of sea birds roosting on them (including puffins). We also went pretty close to one of the glaciers and saw gigantic pieces of ice break off. It was an amazing experience. One that I will never forget. You gotta go!
I have traveled quite a bit. Besides the U.S, I have been throughout Europe, Mexico, Costa Rica, and I just spent a month in Honduras last November.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:25 pmIf those countries hate us, I shudder what to think our allies think of us. Remember in pushing for the Dubai ports deal Bush told us that UAE was a friend in the fight on terrorism. Libya may not like us much, but we currently have more in common with the “muslim headchoppers” then most other countries. The old east bloc countries have slowly withdrawn their support in Iraq, and polls show a majority of Iraq’s want us to leave their country. Try some news besides fox sometime you might get an eyeful.
As for the “dying cultures of europe” they are expanding a great deal, and the EU will be rivaled by only China soon. Our national debt thanks to GWB will destroy us financially.
I would suggest the next you travel you try to get along with local cultures, better yet stay home, I can only imagine you are the annoying american tourist that is disliked worldwide.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:26 pmMA,
I lived in Boise for 14 months a few years ago. One weekend, I went out to “The City of Rocks” to take some landscape photos and enjoy some middle-of-nowhere scenery.
It was about 7:30 – an hour before sunset, and I was wandering around with my camera trying to find a good spot fr sunset shots. I happened upon this campground, and asked the guy occupying a site if he minded if I passed thorugh his site to get to the other side, as I saw no other way around. He said “You don’t need my permission – none of us own anything, we’re just borrowing it while we’re here.” And then he showed me a rock formation that I wouldn’t have seen otherwise that turned out to be my best shots of the entire weekend.
I think that’s what Neal and the rest of us are trying to say. No one owns anything. We’re just guests passing through. We should be respectful of this amazing planet we inhabit – whether it was created or evolved. It shoudln’t matter where it came from. Only that we have it and should appreciate it.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:30 pmmighty aphrodite-
I just laugh at how many progs “have theirsâ€(whatever that might be!) and want to make sure no one else gets what THEY may want
I would have to say that that is a very conservative view, definitley not a liberal one. I like the Nature Conservansy to (trying to find common ground here), but the government doesn’t “confiscate” private land when they designate wilderness, national parks, etc. They either BUY it from private owners or allow them to lease the land from the government. Trust me I know this, I used to work at Point Reyes National Seashore.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:33 pmAnyone who takes a troll at their word deserves to be conned.
IRI is a con, pure and simple, any anecdotal “stories” it conjures are for the benefit of the rubes. Fictional neighbors, trips to foreign lands, it’s all crap. But play with it if you will, I know Friday’s a slow news day.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:34 pmunbelievable,
I agree with #113 completely. Maybe it’s to absract a thought for them. After all Repubs are the masters of talking very simpley.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:36 pmWe also went pretty close to one of the glaciers and saw gigantic pieces of ice break off. It was an amazing experience. One that I will never forget. You gotta go!
I have traveled quite a bit. Besides the U.S, I have been throughout Europe, Mexico, Costa Rica, and I just spent a month in Honduras last November.
Comment by Neal — March 17, 2006 @ 5:25 pm
Funny, I did do that! I have some slides of a calving glacier that still remind me how amazing it was. We didn’t see as many whales as I’d hoped, and none of them breached, but it still so incredible. I have been trying to plan a trip back, but my brother bailed again. Want to use my frequent flyer points before Delta goes belly up…
Costa Rica is on my list… Along with a lot of other places. How was Honduras? What did you do there?
I backpacked across Europe for 3 months when I was 31. It changed my life. For the better of course :).
I’m planning a detailed ‘around the world’ trip for some time in the future when it is feasible.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:37 pmTrust me I know this, I used to work at Point Reyes National Seashore.
Comment by Neal — March 17, 2006 @ 5:33 pm
What an awesome job! I used to live in San Francsico… You still live out that way?
March 17th, 2006 at 5:38 pmUnbelievable,
Ya I live in Marin County (but trust me I am far from rich).
In Honduras I spent 3 weeks volunteering in a small city called Danli. I helped at a medical clinic. Then I spent the last week traveling. It was a life changing experience! Looking past the extreme poverty, the country is amazingly beautiful and the people are very very friendly and nice. If you show respect and have a freindly attitude, they will open up to you completely. I made a bunch of friends down there.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:44 pmNeal,
Marin County is gorgeous… It’s the best of both worlds – close enoughto the city but still unspoiled. I love that part of the country. I just couldn’t afford to live there.
Sounds like you had a great trip. But, really when are they ever not great when they are based on human interaction with other people like that? I mean, even bad weather gets forgotten for the experience itself.
Do you have a favorite place? (I don’t think I do… too hard to pick :).
March 17th, 2006 at 5:55 pmI told the kids last week that all the water in the world is all the water there is. Took a couple minutes, but you could see it hit them by the surprised looks on their faces. Was priceless :)
Comment by unbelievable
They were scratching their heads wondering WTF you were talking about this time. That’d be my guess.
Comment by IRI
Ha, this is priceless. So I read this and just went to Yahoo!s hompage and there is this news headline:
Protesters Say Water Wars Turning Deadly
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060317/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_world_water_forum_5;_ylt=AuwQ988jlICHgNJtPZ2MvksEWFID;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
click here.
So IRI you must be feeling pretty stupid right about now, huh??
March 17th, 2006 at 5:56 pmDear Neal – You are either a HYPOCRITE or a VERY selective reader – - I am not vulgar or crude when I address you, I don’t damn any of you to hell, I don’t discuss your sexual preference or partners.
My Question that NONE of you answered before we took a stroll through the pristine Last Frontier (Note: to unbelievable – the H2O that appears so clean is full of animal dung…) why on earth should we care or give a secong thought to the musings of a failed National Security Advisor – to Mr. Jimmeh, no doubt…..
March 17th, 2006 at 5:58 pmI believe MA is doing what is referred to as an ad hominem attack. she is not refuting anything said in the initial post, just attacking Brzezinski, in hopes of making his statements somehow less meaningful. How very republican of you.
March 17th, 2006 at 6:02 pmUnbelievable,
No way, too hard to pick. I just want to be exposed to as much of this world as I can and be able to take it all in. Here’s my moto:
“Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.”
March 17th, 2006 at 6:03 pm-Ghandi
#119 – Dear Neal – See, we have something in common – do we now refer to this as a warm, fuzzy moment??? Re: your comment about “confiscated land” – Can you spell E-M-I-N-E-N-T D-O-M-A-I-N???? and no…the government does NOT pay fair market price.
March 17th, 2006 at 6:04 pm(Note: to unbelievable – the H2O that appears so clean is full of animal dung…)
Comment by mighty aphrodite — March 17, 2006 @ 5:58 pm
My teling the kids about the limited amount of water was in response to one of them thiking he was being funny by asking if you could drink your own pee… I told him he was drinking more than that already…
Animal dung? Wake up granny, it’s filled with things even worse than that… female hormones, and incontency drugs, and Vioxx, and heart medication, and all the manufactured crap that we ingest and dump right back into thesystem that doesn’t have time to get recycled naturally before it’s being pumped right back to your water faucet…
March 17th, 2006 at 6:04 pmSo IRI you must be feeling pretty stupid right about now, huh??
Comment by Neal — March 17, 2006 @ 5:56 pm
Hungry or horny is more likely… : )
March 17th, 2006 at 6:05 pmYou are either a HYPOCRITE or a VERY selective reader – - I am not vulgar or crude when I address you, I don’t damn any of you to hell, I don’t discuss your sexual preference or partners.
What are you talking about?!?!?!
March 17th, 2006 at 6:05 pmKrazny,
MA is like the kids who don’t get enough attention at home, so they are disruptive in the classroom to compensate.
She proved thatwhen she posted her comment to me twice after we ignored her, and kept talking around her. And teh morewe ignore her, the more insane and crazy she becomes…
March 17th, 2006 at 6:07 pm“Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.â€
-Ghandi
Comment by Neal — March 17, 2006 @ 6:03 pm
Bears repeating… I like that.
March 17th, 2006 at 6:09 pmWhat are you talking about?!?!?!
Comment by Neal — March 17, 2006 @ 6:05 pm
No one really knows…
Well, enjoy your evening… I’m off to dinner. Look forward to catching up with you again. Was a nice way to end a very tedious week!
Happy St. Patricks Day everyone!
March 17th, 2006 at 6:12 pmthe government does NOT pay fair market price.
Really is that true?? Did you here about that old man who owned land in the Everglades and (because there is a program in Florida tring to save that place) they payed the man over 3 million dollars for his property??? It was in the news a few months ago.
And on eminant domain:
March 17th, 2006 at 6:15 pm
I-R-I, I’ve told you to watch out for those progressive womyn – they seem very attracted to you – and have you noticed they want to really “get to know you”?? I guess it’s because so many prog men are not very masculine…..Mr. Aphrodite said they were “eeasy” to date but watch out if they want to “fine tune you”… HA!!!
March 17th, 2006 at 6:16 pmDo you know what “just compensation” means?? It means FAIR MARKET VALUE.
March 17th, 2006 at 6:17 pmI-R-I and Aphro-
Do you two have a life? Spending your day on a progressive blog (when your from the right) just to attack people is pretty pathetic. Do you crave attention?
March 17th, 2006 at 6:22 pmI-RIGHT-I
I would like you to shut your eyes and pretend your married to Claudia Schiffer and you have more money than you can spend – Now would you be typing all this nonsense – No you would not – therefore i can conclude you are a immature delusional hypocrite who was so hard done by when your mother confiscated your soother you have a grudge about women, you are dragging yourself into a hole you cannot or will not ever get out from – Your very similiar to George Bush – Please go into the toilets at your work with aggressive and proud and burp each others worms that way you might releave your stress – you seem to mention gays all the time you remind me of the gay soldier in american beauty that could not communicate the fact he was gay like you – Monkey Knut Wrench got you going the other day eh ??a taste of your own delusional medicine
March 17th, 2006 at 6:25 pm#28, your “What will be the Bush legacy? I think it will be setting the bar for being the worst president in our history.”
Many of us are convinced of this. He’d have some pretty stiff competition, though, from Buchanan, Harding and Reagan.
March 17th, 2006 at 6:39 pmunbelievable, neal, jesus god of war
March 17th, 2006 at 6:44 pmJust have to say I have enjoyed reading your posts of this afternoon.
There is so much to learn and appreciate.
Add this to W’s worries:
March 17th, 2006 at 6:49 pmhttp://enews.earthlink.net/article/hea?guid=20060317/441a4250_3ca6_1552620060317-524611224
With Israel after his ass, he should worry!
#141, in re: your “I would like you to shut your eyes”
I think we would all prefer it if I-RIGHT-I was to shut his pie-hole.
Except that his shutting his eyes while careening down an interstate in his yellow-sticker-covered SUV (with the blinding headlights) might bear some interesting, albeit broken, bloody, and glass-stuck fruit as well.
March 17th, 2006 at 6:50 pmI haven’t always been in agreement with Brzezinski, but in this case, I am totally on board — I am printing out the entire speech to read later.
March 17th, 2006 at 6:56 pm#140, Neal, in re: your “Do you crave attention?”
This is exactly it. You have just taken a cross section of the classic Internet troll. Trolls are generally unpopular adolescents or the grown-up, acneless version of same, who will put up with ANYTHING rather than the silence that might indicate they aren’t being /noticed/.
Ignoring them is the absolute best thing you can do for such people. They hate it, for one. They hate it so much, with such a burning passion, that it even stands a small (well, the only) chance of making them think “hey, maybe I /am/ an asshole. I should work on that!”
Plus they will never 1) give any thought to what you might say to them, (partly because thinking is only second in the pain it causes them to being ignored) 2) apply anything they might accidentally learn, 3) change – ever. This last is because they are right. Not only politically right, but … right. Infallible. Ex cathedra. World without end, amen.
March 17th, 2006 at 6:59 pm#137 – Dear Neal – Sadly, eminent domain has taken a more sinister turn than just providing the public with roads and schools. Across the country, private property is being taken to “jack up” the tax base – a favourite public interest of progs. Most eminent domain cases are settled monetarily by using tax rolls which often gives the homeowner a set exemption (ie. senior citizens, etc.)
Your confusion to my retort about ad homnem attacks was to illustrate how you (and Krazny) don’t appear to protest progressives ad hominem attacks on conservatives but …there are exceptions to the rule…right???
March 17th, 2006 at 7:02 pmWill do Glenn!
March 17th, 2006 at 7:10 pmAnd thank you Marie!
March 17th, 2006 at 7:10 pmtasty tidbit of time
———————
While Mackinder’s warnings of the advantages inherent in central positioning on the Eurasian landmass certainly became incorporated into Cold War American strategic thought and policy, some observers seem to believe that the principle architects of US foreign policy throughout the Cold War era must have been carrying Mackinder in their briefcases. Colin Gray wrote:
By far the most influential geopolitical concept for Anglo-American statecraft has been the idea of a Eurasian `heartland,’ and then the complementary idea-as-policy of containing the heartland power of the day within, not to, Eurasia. From Harry S Truman to George Bush, the overarching vision of US national security was explicitly geopolitical and directly traceable to the heartland theory of Mackinder. . . . Mackinder’s relevance to the containment of a heartland-occupying Soviet Union in the cold war was so apparent as to approach the status of a cliché.[16]
Indeed, many policymakers came from the world of academia, where they were certainly exposed to Mackinder’s geopolitical theories. As was described above, Henry Kissinger used the term geopolitics to denote any policy dependent upon power principles at the expense of ideology and “sentimentality.” Kissinger’s worldview was less dependent upon geographical realities than some of the other Cold Warriors, especially Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was President Carter’s National Security Advisor and a graduate-school mentor of Madeleine Albright. Brzezinski has made Eurasia the focus for US foreign policy in all of his writing, consistently warning of the dangerous advantages that the Heartland power had over the West.[17]
It is of course very difficult to trace the progression of ideas into policy. But theories and assumptions, whether articulated or not, provide the frameworks which guide decisionmaking. Without those frameworks, the proper course for the nation, or the national interest itself, cannot be identified or pursued. So while it is possible that geopolitics and containment simply coincided, it is highly unlikely that Western policymakers could look at a map of the world, see the red zone in the Heartland, and not remember the warning from Mackinder’s cherub.[18]
March 17th, 2006 at 7:16 pm148- Pot, you’re black, too.
Love,
Kettle.
March 17th, 2006 at 7:45 pmJustices Affirm Property Seizures
…
Opponents, including property-rights activists and advocates for elderly and low-income urban residents, argued that forcibly shifting land from one private owner to another, even with fair compensation, violates the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution, which prohibits the taking of property by government except for “public use.”
But Justice John Paul Stevens, writing for the majority, cited cases in which the court has interpreted “public use” to include not only such traditional projects as bridges or highways but also slum clearance and land redistribution. He concluded that a “public purpose” such as creating jobs in a depressed city can also satisfy the Fifth Amendment.
…
Stevens’s opinion provoked a strongly worded dissent from Justice Sandra Day O’Connor, who wrote that the ruling favors the most powerful and influential in society and leaves small property owners little recourse.
…
Stevens was joined in the majority by Justices Anthony M. Kennedy, David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer.
…
O’Connor was joined in her dissent by Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist and Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas. They wrote that the majority had tilted in favor of those with “disproportionate influence and power in the political process, including large corporations and development firms.”
…
i seem to recall the “progs” were fairly riled about this injustice…
March 17th, 2006 at 8:36 pm“correct me if i’m wrong”…
Dear Neal – I-R-I and I see our visits to TP as a (you’ll love this!!) “PUBLIC SERVICE”. This blog and a host of others would be SO boring and redundant. With apologies to MIA Susan and SpudeMAN, I will give you a short example:
RyANNE: “I HATE that awful *&^%*& Geo. Bushco.”
Unbeliever : “You don’t HATE him as much as I DO!!!’
RyANNE: “Being independently wealthy, I find this is a wonderful forum to brag about my $$$ and tell you how I LOVE paying taxes. If trolls would only show up I could also have a really vulgar and crude rant…my therapist and yoga instructor thought a good venting would be beneficial…”
Dr. Pecker: “I despise George Bush. I don’t have two nickels to rub together but being an intelligent and educated sort, I KNOW hating Repugnant, Reptilian, Republicans is the right decision. I also want you to be impressed with my alliteration.
Marie : “It is the responsibility of all thinking humans to hate George Bush…”
JC, God of War: I hate George Bush almost as much as RyANNE.”
Get the picture? We keep this place from being so repetitive. I shudder to think if one of you “original” thinkers typed, “ditto”.
Good night!!
March 17th, 2006 at 8:54 pmOctober 1997: Brzezinski Highlights the Importance of Central Asia to Achieving World Domination:
March 17th, 2006 at 8:56 pm“Former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski publishes a book in which he portrays the Eurasian landmass as the key to world power, and Central Asia with its vast oil reserves as the key to domination of Eurasia. He states that for the US to maintain its global primacy, it must prevent any possible adversary from controlling that region. He notes, “The attitude of the American public toward the external projection of American power has been much more ambivalent. The public supported America’s engagement in World War II largely because of the shock effect of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.†He predicts that because of popular resistance to US military expansionism, his ambitious Central Asian strategy can not be implemented “except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat.â€
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/item.jsp?item=a1097chessboard
Although he’s not quite as mad as the PNAC neocons:
August 18, 2002 Events Leading to Iraq Invasion
March 17th, 2006 at 8:59 pmIn a Washington Post op-ed piece, Zbigniew Brzezinski reprimands the Bush administration for its reckless foreign policy, saying that “war is too serious a business and too unpredictable in its dynamic consequences—especially in a highly flammable region—to be undertaken because of a personal peeve, demagogically articulated fears or vague factual assertions.†He adds that “[i]f it is to be war, it should be conducted in a manner that legitimizes US global hegemony and, at the same time, contributes to a more responsible system of international security.†He then makes several recommendations for improving US foreign policy, including a summary of “a wrong way for America to initiate a war.â€
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq
IRI is a con, pure and simple, any anecdotal “stories†it conjures are for the benefit of the rubes. Fictional neighbors, trips to foreign lands, it’s all crap. But play with it if you will, I know Friday’s a slow news day.
Comment by Dano347
It’s true, you are a rube but the fact is the only thing I lied about was the size of my penis. It’s bad enough for you that I’m smarter, better looking and richer than the rest of you I didn’t want you to feel extra bad about being needle dick bug fuckers as well as stupid, fat, poor and ugly.
So IRI you must be feeling pretty stupid right about now, huh??
Comment by Neal
It comes and goes.
“Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.â€
-Ghandi
Comment by Neal
He was a Marxist pedophile who drank his own urine. Take his advice if you want to.
My teling the kids about the limited amount of water was in response to one of them thiking he was being funny by asking if you could drink your own pee… I told him he was drinking more than that already…
That’s not true…yet…as far as I know there is no public water supply that recycles human waste. You really do need me to help you get your shit together don’t you?
Animal dung? Wake up granny, it’s filled with things even worse than that… female hormones, and incontency drugs, and Vioxx, and heart medication, and all the manufactured crap that we ingest and dump right back into thesystem that doesn’t have time to get recycled naturally before it’s being pumped right back to your water faucet…
Comment by unbelievable —
You sound like a bottled water salesman. Now stop that and get me a beer.
So IRI you must be feeling pretty stupid right about now, huh??
Comment by Neal — March 17, 2006 @ 5:56 pm
Hungry or horny is more likely… : )
Comment by unbelievable
Both but I’m used to it.
I-R-I, I’ve told you to watch out for those progressive womyn – they seem very attracted to you – and have you noticed they want to really “get to know youâ€?? I guess it’s because so many prog men are not very masculine…..Mr. Aphrodite said they were “eeasy†to date but watch out if they want to “fine tune youâ€â€¦ HA!!!
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Nope, they all hate me except “sugarpants”. It would be just my luck she’s a he and gay. That’s the way ‘06 has been going thus far.
I-R-I and Aphro-
Do you two have a life? Spending your day on a progressive blog (when your from the right) just to attack people is pretty pathetic. Do you crave attention?
Comment by Neal
Not at all Neal. The Goddess and I represent the God faction on this site. She’s a believing Jew and I’m a believing something a little different than her Right Wing Fundamentalist Christo-Nazi with the hots for Left Wing women I can save. We’re here because we love you. Try not to forget that.
I-RIGHT-I
I would like you to shut your eyes and pretend your married to Claudia Schiffer and you have more money than you can spend – Now would you be typing all this nonsense – No you would not –
Comment by A Dark Germ
Actually, once you’ve been sleeping with a beauty queen for a few years the glamour comes off faster than the make-up. And when you are not overly materialistic and there’s nothing within reason you really want or need that you can’t afford the amount of money in the bank is not something that commands your emotions or even your fantasies. But the fact is I’m not married right now to Claudia or anyone else so what I’d do if I were isn’t much more than an exercise in mental masturbation; something I think you may know a little about. Bottom line though…if Claudia calls I’ll catch you later.
This last is because they are right. Not only politically right, but … right. Infallible. Ex cathedra. World without end, amen.
Comment by Glenn Becker
Better Right than Left Behind I always say.
Get the picture? We keep this place from being so repetitive. I shudder to think if one of you “original†thinkers typed, “dittoâ€.
Good night!!
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Nite Goddess, and you’re right. If it wasn’t for us these losers would get so bored they’d just go out and do something really stupid like trying to peel off the W sticker from the bumper of my 5000+# gas guzzling 4X4 pickup truck with the optional Easy Rider rifle rack. IOW they’d get hurt. We’re actually doing their mother’s a favor.
March 17th, 2006 at 10:31 pmHey..even trolls gotta make a living.. I amuse myself by picturing the squalid boiler room these losers work in every day. I once thought they must make minimum wage, but after seeing the length of their postings, have decided they must be paid by the word, instead.. and bonuses everytime they use Clinton, Kennedy, and offensive ethnic slurs in their posts. I apologize for feeding the trolls, but even old ladies eventually have to spout off.
March 18th, 2006 at 12:55 amMighty Aphrodite, # 61
Sorry I’m so late with this post, but the firewall where I work won’t let me post here. I wrote this at lunch in response to the question about economic utopia:
Before the advent of agriculture and excess humanity
lived in communal societies, small bands of
hunter/gatherers, each mutually dependent upon each
other. In some views this was the Eden mankind was
cast out of. Note that the advent of agriculture
coincided with the “fall” of mankind.
The economic utopia of mankind will eventually evolve
away from capitalism, moving through socialism towards
that pure state of communal ownership. This will occur
as mankind begrudgingly gives up greed.
Christ talked of giving away all possessions and
following Him. Budda found the root of suffering lie
in desire. We are possessed by our possessions.
There is a word, “Namaste” which means, roughly, “I am
you are me.” It symbolizes the connection we all share
with one another, and with All that is. When you
sense this connection, you realize that the
underpinnings of Capitalism are illusory.
This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius.
Namaste.
March 18th, 2006 at 2:06 amI-R-I, I’ve told you to watch out for those progressive womyn – they seem very attracted to you – and have you noticed they want to really “get to know youâ€?? I guess it’s because so many prog men are not very masculine…..Mr. Aphrodite said they were “eeasy†to date but watch out if they want to “fine tune youâ€â€¦ HA!!!
Comment by mighty aphrodite — March 17, 2006 @ 6:16 pm
Actually, Magda, you were encouraging him to pursue me not so long ago – via “Mr. Aphrodite’s†matchmaking efforts. Just because your memory is faulty, don’t assume mine is.
And, by the way, my toe nail clippings have more morals than you’ll ever possess. So don’t project your promiscious history onto me.
March 18th, 2006 at 8:31 amFor those who don’t know this SMEAR against ghandi, it comes from the fact that he and his wife were BOTH married at 13. To be a pedophile, you have to be an ADULT having sex with a child. Two 13 year olds are NOT pedophiles, but a dirty old man like Mighty Moron or Mizz Wrong are obvious pedophile lurking perverts.
Comment by Ryan Neat — March 17, 2006 @ 11:01 pm
The blindness of people to other cultures astounds me as well. In india, arranged marriages at early ages were common. The current younger generations are changing that system, because they want to marry for love – but many still stick with that ‘arranged marriage’ tradition out of obligation to their heritage. Reminds me of certain people…
Indian culture is not as sexually obsessed as American culture. At 13, it is unlikely that they were having sex. As one of my bestfriends is from India, he explained that the first couple of years of a young marriage, they are getting to know one another and not humping like rabbits.
Sad how much some people hate.
March 18th, 2006 at 8:41 amNope, they all hate me except “sugarpantsâ€. It would be just my luck she’s a he and gay. That’s the way ‘06 has been going thus far.
If, at this point, you really think there’s even a remote possibility that I’m a gay man, then you need something much stronger than a Prozac and bourbon cocktail. There’s nothing about me that would suggest that is even likely. And you know it. You just wish I were to make your life a whole lot easier. Then you wouldn’t be frustrated that the ‘wrong’ girl would be the ‘right’ girl if she were just a Jesus Freak. Because , really, veggie burgers in the freezer and recycling bins in the garage are far more tolerable than the dense, pathetic Bible Study sheep who can’t keep you in line.
I’m a believing something a little different than her Right Wing Fundamentalist Christo-Nazi with the hots for Left Wing women I can save.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 17, 2006 @ 10:31 pm
Yet you run from every opportunity I give you to enlighten me. You’re right – you’re just full of shit. It’s more comfortable if there is no ‘right’ girl. Then you don’t have to risk fucking it up. Whatever. Just stop acting like a jealous boyfriend when I decide to talk to someone else who doesn’t care so much about my current religious beliefs or bra size.
March 18th, 2006 at 8:56 amMy teling the kids about the limited amount of water was in response to one of them thiking he was being funny by asking if you could drink your own pee… I told him he was drinking more than that already…
That’s not true…yet…as far as I know there is no public water supply that recycles human waste. You really do need me to help you get your shit together don’t you?
Of course it is true. I learned it in the 1980’s in high school science. Besides, I’ve already told you, I don’t make this shit up. I’m not that creative.
There are these things called books. Try reading some. Especially non-fiction. You’ll learn that Florida has drained their aquafers and are just pumping processed waste water back into the ground with the hope that the natural system will take care of all the pharmaceuticals and other toxins by the time it gets back to the sink. You really should look into it, as Texas is quickly draining their aquafers and will be likely to follow suit. But, then again, some supplemental prozac might just be what you need.
Actually, it’s you who needs me more : )
March 18th, 2006 at 9:22 amNeal,
I hope IRI’s bad manners and temper tantrum won’t chase you away. I enjoyed talking with you yesterday, and hope to do so again. I’d like to hear more about your travels, ’spirituality’ and thoughts in general.
March 18th, 2006 at 9:30 am(I notice that progs love to differentiate themselves from the “riff-raff†with the exalted title “Dr.â€)
MA*, I wouldn’t mention the lack of people with doctorates speaking for the right wing as being in the right wing’s favour.
March 18th, 2006 at 9:52 am* As in the real life sheep who supports pigs, not the fictional one.
March 18th, 2006 at 9:53 am#154 MA
March 18th, 2006 at 10:57 amYou have applied a quote to me that I have never said. It’s out of character for me — it’s not my style. I resent your blatant lie – as much as I despise your opinions and what you believe in, I do not spread lies about you. That would reduce myself to one at your level.
I cannot speak for the others you smeared, as they are perfectly able to defend themselves, but I strongly believe that they have also been misquoted as you attempt to make your lame argument.
#165 unbelievable
You were quick than I to comment on the crass ignorance of the trolls.
March 18th, 2006 at 11:04 am#171- Dear Marie – Please accept my sincere and heartfelt apology for offending you. You are a fine and consistent example of compassionate, progressive thinking. I should have included the following disclaimer – of course, written in the official font of the legal profession – “boilerplate”:
*****HUMOUR ALERT – - HUMOUR ALERT – - ALL (!!!) HUMOURLESS PROGRESSIVES ARE ADVISED TO PROCEED NO FURTHER IN THIS POST. PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK!*******
Your apparent and distressful mental anguish due to my summary “illustration” (as to how TRULY BORING this blog would be without the few kind and generous conservatives who visit and opine) was NOT an intended consequence. (Again, I understand progressive women striving to be taken “COMPLETELY SERIOUSLY” – this has been an ongoing problem since winning the “wolf whistle war”.
You are advised NOT to read posts by conservatives unless you complete the following:
“How I Joined the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy and Found Inner Peace”, by Harry Stein
“Eat the Rich”, by P.J. O’Rourke
Again, my most SINCERE apologies!!!!!
March 18th, 2006 at 1:57 pmYou really should look into it, as Texas is quickly draining their aquafers and will be likely to follow suit. But, then again, some supplemental prozac might just be what you need.
Actually, it’s you who needs me more : )
Comment by unbelievable
I am a totally independent self-sufficient operating system. The only thing I need is a Mexican housekeeper that can cook. It would be nice if she could fix dinner once in awhile too.
I hadn’t heard about Florida injecting treated sewage into the groundwater but what the hell, all those orano-phosphates they’ve been mining down there have already poisoned the water so a little pee certainly isn’t going to hurt anyone. As far a Texas goes…we will be screwed one of these days. They pull so much water out of the ground for rice farming down here that the entire southern part of the state is sinking. But what do I care? I don’t drink water anyway.
March 18th, 2006 at 2:11 pmFor those who don’t know this SMEAR against ghandi, it comes from the fact that he and his wife were BOTH married at 13. To be a pedophile, you have to be an ADULT having sex with a child. Two 13 year olds are NOT pedophiles, but a dirty old man like Mighty Moron or Mizz Wrong are obvious pedophile lurking perverts.
You both are sickening and disgusting individuals. You lie with such ease that pathological is too kind of an insult for you. You both deserve padded rooms – whackos!
Comment by Ryan Neat
Wrong stupid. The story comes from well publicized accounts by Ghandi himself of how he’d sleep naked with girls to prove that he had conquered his lust. Look it up. Ghandi was a freak of nature. My guess is he failed his little test on more than one occasion and that makes him a baby raper.
March 18th, 2006 at 2:14 pmUnbeliever magnanimously states: “The blindness of people to other cultures astounds me.”
****There are a vast array of cultures to be studied – there are not many to be emulated. (Note: It is interesting to note the level of loathing and criticism levelled at American culture by homegrown malcontents.)
March 18th, 2006 at 2:19 pmYou were quick than I to comment on the crass ignorance of the trolls.
Comment by Marie — March 18, 2006 @ 11:04 am
Thanks, but they make it so obvious I can’t take credit :)
Shock factor is all most of them have anyway.
March 18th, 2006 at 2:34 pm“Neal, I hope IRI’s bad manners and temper tantrum won’t chase you away.”
– comment by unbeliever
**** Very sweet of you to be so concerned with a prog males’ feelings.
March 18th, 2006 at 2:41 pmI am a totally independent self-sufficient operating system. The only thing I need is a Mexican housekeeper that can cook. It would be nice if she could fix dinner once in awhile too.
Well, with all your money you’ve boasted about having, I’m sure you can buy both of those things. I’m talking about the things you cannot buy. Stop playing ignorant. You’re not very good at it :)
I hadn’t heard about Florida injecting treated sewage into the groundwater but what the hell, all those orano-phosphates they’ve been mining down there have already poisoned the water so a little pee certainly isn’t going to hurt anyone. As far a Texas goes…we will be screwed one of these days. They pull so much water out of the ground for rice farming down here that the entire southern part of the state is sinking. But what do I care? I don’t drink water anyway.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 18, 2006 @ 2:11 pm
I think you don’t understand that the water in your beer was once peed out by some other living thing who drank it first. Only 5% of the water on this planet is potable (and most of that is in form of water vapor). Do the math, there’s not much left for drinking, and therefore it has to be recycled. I have no idea how you passed high school science, probably just memorized stuff long enough to take the test and then discarded it. Like most people…
But we are a self-contained system in which the water that exists here has to be recycled – cleaned though natural processes which filter out the contanimants in the water so it can be drank again, and again, and again. This is the point in things like rain, rivers, aquafers, and shit eating bacteria. You didn’t think those things are here for the hell of it did you?
I know it’s not palatable, but, really, it’s at least better than being a dung beetle…
March 18th, 2006 at 2:43 pm****There are a vast array of cultures to be studied – there are not many to be emulated. (Note: It is interesting to note the level of loathing and criticism levelled at American culture by homegrown malcontents.)
Comment by mighty aphrodite — March 18, 2006 @ 2:19 pm
I really don’t know why you don’t just read what I type and leave it at that. I say what I mean and mean what I say. You don’t have to translate it into anything else. I speak English fluently…
I said ‘people’, not ‘all Americans’. And I never used the word emulate. It wasn’t what I said, nor what I meant. Moron.
March 18th, 2006 at 2:47 pm**** Very sweet of you to be so concerned with a prog males’ feelings.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — March 18, 2006 @ 2:41 pm
Strange to you, I know, to be concerned about anyone’s feelings.
But, I’m not a passive little Barbie doll. If IRI wasn’t interested in responding to the posts I’d left for him, then he has no right to act out if I go talk to someone else who is. As I too am a “totally independent self-sufficient operating system”. And don’t try to spin that into something I didn’t say. Unlike you, not everything I say has any reference or connection to sex.
March 18th, 2006 at 2:52 pmRyan,
You know, I’ve never known a woman to talk about sex as much as Magda. I’m sure you’re right – as usual :). Just a frustrated man who cannot come to terms with his gender-disassociative reality.
And, for the record, in the 6 months I’ve been around here, I’ve never seen you talk about your money. The only reason i know about it is because MA brings it up in every single rants she-he posts within 500 yards of you…
Clearly she-he wants you. That obsession is incredibly obvious. ; )
March 18th, 2006 at 3:10 pm“You know, I’ve never known a woman to talk about sex as much as Magda.”
****….except RyANNe.
March 18th, 2006 at 3:41 pmRyaNNe, “And, for the record, in the 6 months I’ve been around here, I’ve never seen you talk about your money….” – unbeliever
March 18th, 2006 at 4:35 pm****Then you were busy propagandizing the youth in your classroom – it’s very enlightening to read that other ones’ views on “his money” and “other prople’ money” – his opportunities and generosity vs. other people’s opportunities and experiences.
Hey, I can’t stay around, but don’t forget to watch “We Were Warned” on CNN tonight at 8pm eastern/5 pacific. Maybe we can discuss the show after (was it biass, is the mainstream media finally picking up on “the big picture”, what were some good points/some bs points, was it accurate, etc.) So tune in!
March 18th, 2006 at 4:50 pm**bias
March 18th, 2006 at 4:51 pmMighty Moron,
The longer you’re on here, the more you sound like MizzWrong – your alter ego. You’re such a BAD LIAR little boy.
Once again you prove how retarded you are – because only YOU are discussing ‘my money’ as usual. This obsession of yours is typical of those who are driven by greed, envy and obsession.
As for ‘other people’s money’, you seem to have no trouble spending the money of the poor and working class, and supporting the most irresponsible republican spender to ever hold office. That kind of checked out disconnect from reality is exactly what I’d expect to see from someone who’s so gender and ‘class’ confused.
As for me being a woman, hehe, that’s funny. You say that like you think it’s an insult – ironic coming from someone ‘pretending’ to be a woman. You’ve once again proven that you’re gender confused – poor sick little moron.
March 18th, 2006 at 4:54 pmShe says she went to catholic school, my guess is that she has ‘class envy’, being that she doesn’t have any. :)
Comment by Ryan Neat — March 18, 2006 @ 3:24 pm
I thought she was Jewish????
I’m sure she has penis envy as well.. :O
March 18th, 2006 at 5:02 pm“You know, I’ve never known a woman to talk about sex as much as Magda.â€
****….except RyANNe.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — March 18, 2006 @ 3:41 pm
Now I know why you aren’t funny. Humor has to have some basis in reality for it to be witty. Since Ryan is neither effeminate nor prolific about sex, your quip was totally devoid of reality, and therefore humor.
You should take a lesson from IRI. For a small fee he’ll give you a “weekend quickie” – and even pick you up at the airport.
March 18th, 2006 at 5:06 pmunbelievable,
No, Mighty Moron is not jewish according to his own character development. He pulls out that card to deflect the ‘rightwing christian’ charge, and to deflect the ‘Nazi’ party charges. His mother is Jewish, but he says he’s a christian because dad was Christian and he was raised Christian. The jewish part is ‘ancestry’, and from what I could discern, his mother is only have jewish, making him 1/4?
No, he’s another Reichwing Christian, just like MizzWrong and most of the rest of the Cabal of the moronic american fascist party.
Pretty sad huh?
March 18th, 2006 at 5:10 pmSo tune in!
Comment by Neal — March 18, 2006 @ 4:50 pm
I assume it comes on 3 hours earlier here…. (I’m east coast). Your link said that it’s also on on Sunday.
Should be interesting to see how they present it. I just saw Good Night and Good Luck (great movie,and I rarely say that). Certainly one of those pictures that adjusts the lenses through which we see the world… Now, if I can just getthrough Manufacturing Consent… weather has been too nice here.
March 18th, 2006 at 5:10 pmhumor: that quality which appeals to a sense of the ludicrous or absurdly incongruous
For instance, it’s humorous to have a ‘woman’ who thinks its an insult to claim that a man is a woman. Hence while Mighty Moron’s attacks aren’t humorous, the ‘incongruous and ludicrous’ basis of those attacks are funny. Or when the troll defends bush cronyism and no-bid contracts while pretending to be pro-capitalist. Or when the troll defends an AlQueda tied company controlling port commerce, and the refusal of Bush to track down Bin Laden, while claiming to be pro-security. Or when the troll claims to be opposed to techniques for taking ‘other peoples’ money’ all the while touting flat tax (a form of taking their money) and out of control spending.
In otherwords Mighty Moron, you’re the butt of your own jokes, but too stupid to know it.
Now THAT’s humor :)
March 18th, 2006 at 5:15 pmNo, he’s another Reichwing Christian, just like MizzWrong and most of the rest of the Cabal of the moronic american fascist party.
Pretty sad huh?
Comment by Ryan Neat — March 18, 2006 @ 5:10 pm
Oh, I see…
Well, she claims to have also been a liberal and there’s no way I’m buying that. I went over to a secular forum to find out if anyone there had any statistics on people who ‘convert’ from religions or political affliations, but was told by several that no one with corporate money wants to have statistics on either, so there weren’t any available. Guess it’s like the lack of statistics on ex-pats… the government doesn’t want anyone to know about that large shift either.
Yes, definitely sad. And she doesn’t even know how much.
March 18th, 2006 at 5:17 pmIn otherwords Mighty Moron, you’re the butt of your own jokes, but too stupid to know it.
Now THAT’s humor :)
Comment by Ryan Neat — March 18, 2006 @ 5:15 pm
.
March 18th, 2006 at 5:21 pmExplains why we laugh at her rather than with her…
“Well, she claims to have also been a liberal and there’s no way I’m buying that. unbelievable”
All part of the scam. The latest version of his ‘bio’ says he was raised conservative, and flirted with liberalism in college, until he met his conservative husband and converted whole heartedly to conservatism and christianity. This is typical of the mythology of the reichwing on the power of marriage, the role of the husband, and submissiveness and reactionary responses of the devoted wife.
It’s like a profile of propaganda wrapped up in an ugly, stupid and juvenile package. And what’s really pathetic is this moron thinks he’s funny and smart – and NOTHING could be further from the truth – except maybe the WMD claims :)
March 18th, 2006 at 5:39 pm“Explains why we laugh at her rather than with her… Comment by unbelievable”
Right on sister. I imagine it must be like high school for him all over again – where I bet he pretended he wasn’t the lost, unhappy and unsociable outsider there as well. Poor little whacko, to grow up and reproduce his high school experience and not even realize he’s the same social outcast and the same idiot and moron.
I always felt sorry for the social outcasts – because it was obvious they had ‘home problems’ and poor parenting. The one thing I hope is a lie is the ‘4 children’ of mighty moron. If he has kids, that would be a tragedy. More little unsocialized reichwing morons is not what the world needs. Can’t you see it now, 4 little ‘Gaede’ kids singing the praises of white nazi power.
March 18th, 2006 at 5:42 pmunbeliever – (such an apt name!!!) While you and your friend are busy discussing penis envy, let me clarify AGAIN:
My mom was a Jewess, my dad was Irish Caholic. I went to Catholic schools but my siblings and I were released from religion class (a long with a few other kids) to do homework or go the library. We were taught to be respectful of everyone’s religion – and to pity those who had none.
Just a tidbit of recent RyANNisms:
“ironic coming from someone ‘pretending’ to be a woman. You’ve once again proven that you’re gender confused – poor sick little moron.”
“Mighty Moron isn’t ‘getting any’, …Poor little sexually ambiguous thing must be as lonely as heck surrounded by fellow whackos he’s afraid to come out of the closet to. ”
“…but a dirty old man like Mighty Moron or Mizz Wrong are obvious pedophile lurking perverts.”
Get some help you sicko pervert! And take Mighty Moron and her sexual confusion “and gender identity issues to ”
All this from just one thread!!!!(Reminds me of my brothers when they were 10-12.)
March 18th, 2006 at 6:59 pmUnbeliever – My first party affiliation was the Peace and Freedom Party. That only lasted two years. I then joined another obscure and irrelevant left wing third party for a couple of more years. (Those were the ignorant and immature, “I’m more right and sincere than you” years.) Finally, I became a card carrying Democrat – Which I thought was almost as big of a sell out as being a member of the “evil” “country club” party. After marrying Mr. Aphrodite – my “shining armour” Republican – I started to understand the stance better. Most Repubs are good people who love God, their families, their country, and their neighbors. They aren’t perfect and know it. They contribute to charity and pitch in.
My intention is not to bore you – rather there is one out there who, like “the devil himself”, mixes truth, half-truth and outright lies. Believe what you want.
March 18th, 2006 at 7:12 pm“All this from just one thread!!!!(Reminds me of my brothers when they were 10-12.)
Comment by mighty aphrodite ”
So to the mind of a Moron, pointing out that someone clearly suffers from ‘gender confusion’ is talking about ’sex’?
Wow, are you sure it isn’t YOU who’s 10-12?
What an idiot – and I didn’t think you could possibly sound ANY MORE STUPID – and here you outdid yourself!!!
March 18th, 2006 at 9:07 pm“After marrying Mr. Aphrodite – my “shining armour†Republican – I started to understand the stance better. Most Repubs are good people who love God, their families, their country, and their neighbors. They aren’t perfect and know it. They contribute to charity and pitch in. Mighty Moron”
Oh, so despite growing up Republican, you needed the love of a Republican man to fulfill yourself enough to understand republican values?
That’s the most retarded and nonsensical thing you’ve ever said! No wonder you joined the ‘freedom party’, you’re an IDIOT!!!!
As for the ‘religious’ thing, the percentage of Democrats and Republicans who self identify as religious is almost the same. So once again you’re preconceptions are as retarded as everything you say.
As for the ‘contribute to charity’, could that be why the red states are at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to charity contributions, whereas the blue states dominate the top?
Once again, black is white, and Mighty Moron is the most retarded idiot in trolldom!
Bahaha, you’re so funny, but not when you try to be!
“My intention is not to bore you – rather there is one out there who, like “the devil himselfâ€, mixes truth, half-truth and outright lies. Believe what you want. Comment by mighty aphrodite ”
Then that makes you the devil, because that’s what you do daily! Heck this post alone just proves it!
You’re a hateful ahole, and you rationalize your hate through stupid preconceptions that never pan out. You are the most inaccurate, idiotic fool who thinks they’re smart that I’ve ever read – perhaps outside of MizzWrong (your alter ego?) and Ruppert/NED/WWallace who’s just incoherent.
March 18th, 2006 at 9:12 pmAnd Mighty Moron,
For someone who pretends to have a litter (4 children?) a husband and a full time job, you sure have a lot of energy, and time to waste on ‘liberals’ who you say are just ‘the devil’.
Wow, you’d think you’d have more important priorities in your life, but I’m guessing if your children are anything like you (assuming you even have any) – you’d really want to escape your responsibilities and talk to intelligent people.
March 18th, 2006 at 9:13 pmAnd one more thing Mighty Moron,
I hate to point out the obvious, but with someone as retarded as you I know it’s necessary. Using your superior ‘legal logic’, every time you call me ‘RyAnne’, you are in fact making a ‘gender related comment’, which in your terminology means you’re talking about ’sex’.
So while hypocrisy and stupidity are the norm among republicans – to us, you just like like the biggest idiot 14 year old boy in the world.
Bahah, once again, Mighty Moron is the butt of his own criticism and ‘jokes’, and is too stupid to know it!!
Oh, thanks for the laughs loser boy.
March 18th, 2006 at 9:20 pmSo I just finished watching “We Were Warned” and, as I had expected, half of it was hard-hitting truths and half of it was BS. I cannot believe the majority of their interviews were with the oil and auto industry!!! Ya these people who are profitting off oil like crazy are really going to supply our answers to this problem and give an unbias assesment of our future with oil. America is addicted to oil and these guys are our dealers!! That’s what pissed me off about the show. I also was very upset that they did not factor global warming in one bit!! I mean come on, climate change should be reason in itself for us to kick our oil addiction!
However, the show did make some very good and valid points as well. I thought the “hypothetical” situation in 2009 was an excellent example of what WILL happen if we don’t change our oil ways. It showed how much our oil dependency is linked to national security. I thought their coverage of Brazil’s ethonal industry was great (Brazil’s energy comes 40% from sugar cane!! And why can’t we do that??). I also liked at the beginning of the show when they interviewed the former CIA guy and the oil analyst who wrote that book.
All in all, I think it was worth my time.
“We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is to survive.”
-Albert Einstein
March 18th, 2006 at 9:35 pmAfter marrying Mr. Aphrodite – my “shining armour†Republican – I started to understand the stance better. Most Repubs are good people who love God, their families, their country, and their neighbors. They aren’t perfect and know it. They contribute to charity and pitch in.
Comment by the Goddess.
You’re a good kid. Your old man must not be too bad either.
March 18th, 2006 at 10:00 pmNeal,
March 18th, 2006 at 10:17 pmI watched it and I was a little let down as you were, and for the same reasons. Perhaps for some people it will be an eye opener and that is a good thing. I was impressed by Brazil. The interviews with the CEOs here, however, simply allowed them to portray themselves as better than they are in truth.
It did offer a grim view into the future as we become more dependent on oil. It’s so obvious that we should have been working on this since the mid 70’s and we saw the first crisis, but as my father always said — “money talks” and profits rule the world.
Marie,
I know what you mean. Can you believe that Brazil (argueably still a third-world country) is in a better situation than us when it comes to energy sustainability and independence??
March 18th, 2006 at 10:49 pmOur politicians are in bed with big oil. That is the ONLY hurdle that is preventing our nation from moving past our oil addiction. Period!!
Marie,
I know what you mean. Can you believe that Brazil (argueably still a third-world country) is in a better situation than us when it comes to energy sustainability and independence??
Nonsense. All the world’s oil goes on the open market. Only the commies try and protect the consumer by selling locally at a loss. A loss is a loss and Brazil or any other supplier country can’t keep it up. Oil costs what it costs and that’s the truth. But if you like Brazil and think they’ve got it better than us go ahead and move there. You’ll be back.
March 18th, 2006 at 11:48 pmI-RIGHT-I
another negative comment – whats your problem
March 19th, 2006 at 4:24 amI just saw Brzezinski on Blitzer’s Sunday show – this is more evidence of how the “opposing” voices are treated on television.
March 19th, 2006 at 12:27 pmBrzezinski mentioned the “Mission Accomplished” of three years ago, and Blitzer firmly, and quickly, corrected him, saying those words were on the banner, and not what Bush said.
I am not always in agreement with Brzezinski, although in this case I am, but I was stunned by how quickly a misstatement was trounced because it was not entirely accurate, but words by Bush&Co are seldom, if ever challenged, but instead, enhanced, repeated, and treated as fact.
All in all, I think it was worth my time.
“We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is to survive.â€
-Albert Einstein
Comment by Neal — March 18, 2006 @ 9:35 pm
I’m afraid I couldn’t get to the end. It wasn’t what I’d call a quality program – not by CNN standards, or even 2006 standards. I thought it was boring, after the opening, and a very shallow perspective of the real problems -and previous 60 Minutes shows. Nothing new or eye-opening for people like us who stay in touch with reality. I imagine this show was aimed at the average American who knows very little about the problems facing us. I am happy that at least they acknowledged the problem enough to make and air a program about it… perhaps too late, but better late than never… maybe.
March 20th, 2006 at 10:53 am[...] Zbigniew Brzezinski, Keynote Address at the Center for American Progress, 16 mars 2006 [...]
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:57 am