VIDEO: How The Bush Administration Muzzles The Government’s Top Global Warming Scientist
VIDEO: How The Bush Administration Muzzles The Government’s Top Global Warming Scientist
Yesterday, 60 Minutes aired a powerful segment documenting how the Bush administration has muzzled the government’s top global warming researcher, James Hansen. Watch an excerpt:
Check out more coverage of the segment on The Left Coaster and Daily Kos.
Transcript:
HANSEN: In my more than three decades in the government, I’ve never witnessed such restrictions on the ability of scientists to communicate with the public.
PELLEY: Restrictions like this email that Hansen’s Institute received from NASA in 2004: “…there’s a new review process… The White House [is] now reviewing all climate related press releases.†Why the scrutiny of Hansen’s work? Well, his Goddard Institute for Space Studies is the source of respected, but sobering research on warming. It recently announced 2005 was the warmest year on record. Hansen started at NASA more than 30 years ago, and spent nearly all of that time studying the earth. How important is his work? We asked someone at the top - Ralph Cicerone, president of the nation’s leading institute of science, the National Academy of Sciences.
CICERONE: I can’t think of anybody who I would say is better than Hansen. He might argue that there’s two or three others as good, but nobody better
PELLEY: And Cicerone, who’s an atmospheric chemist, said the same thing that every leading scientist told us.
CICERONE: Climate change is really happening.
PELLEY: So what is causing the changes?
CICERONE: Well, the greenhouse gases. Carbon dioxide and methane and chloro fluoro carbons and a couple of others - which are all, the increases in their concentrations in the air are due to human activities. It’s that simple.
PELLEY: But if it is that simple, why do climate science reports look like this after they’ve been edited at the White House? With science labeled “not sufficiently reliable.†It’s a tone of scientific uncertainty that the president set in his first months in office after he pulled out of a global treaty to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
BUSH: We do not how much our climate could or will change in the future. We do not know how fast change will occur, or even how some of our actions could impact it.
PELLEY: That ambiguity annoyed Hansen, so he went public a year and half ago saying this about the Bush administration in a talk at the University of Iowa.
HANSEN: I find a willingness to listen only to those portions of scientific results that fit predetermined, inflexible positions. This, I believe, is a recipe for environmental disasters.
PELLEY: Ever since he said that, NASA’s been keeping an eye on Hansen. NASA let us sit down with him, but only with a NASA representative taping the interview. Other interviews have been denied.
HANSEN: And I object to the fact that I’m not able to freely communicate via the media. National Public Radio wanted to interview me, and they were told they would need to instead interview someone at NASA headquarters. And the comment was made that they didn’t want Jim Hansen going on the most liberal media in the nation. So, I don’t think that kind of decision should be made on that kind of basis. I think we should be able to communicate the science.
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Brave brave man. There will be more Americans of honor coming out and speaking truth. These intelligent men and women have been fired, muffled or destroyed (as NeD likes to say) and we are all tired of it.
We will not listen to the lies any longer and neither will the true republicans. This administration has further alienated republicans from reality. They are all apologizing now and it is hollow.
I’m ready for November.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:01 pmLets hope the libs here take the lead and sell their SUVS and monster homes to lower their carbon footprint. Since they are sooo concerned about climate change. Oopps I forgot its all President Bushs fault.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:01 pmI don’t know that many of us “progressives” own Hummers.
Sure wish my truck was a 4 wheeler when I go up to the snow though.
on topic - why are we not surprised bushco prefers lying to the public?
March 20th, 2006 at 12:05 pmActually I expect Kerry to remind us that the SUV in his driveway belongs to Terezzzza and not him.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:05 pmDoesn’t this sound eerily like the complaint that IAEA Weapons inspectors couldn’t find out the truth from Iraqi scientist because they weren’t allowed to speak to them without “handlers” from Saddam’s government ministries. Looks like we have our own “Republican Guard” to deal with.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:05 pmThese are not the ecological nightmares we are looking for, drive on…
March 20th, 2006 at 12:11 pmtrolls - the point of this thread is that YOUR leader spreads lies to the public to cover for his corporate cronies.
Stop trying to make this a democrats are bad thread. At least we don’t lie about the footprint we leave. Try addressing why YOUR leader chooses to lie to YOU.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:12 pm“Actually I expect Kerry to remind us that the SUV in his driveway belongs to Terezzzza and not him. ”
Comment by Ben — March 20, 2006 @ 12:05 pm
Along with his 5 mansions
March 20th, 2006 at 12:13 pmKindness, no you just try to get the gov to force a lifestyle change on the rest of us.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:16 pmwho cares? Rapture is coming soon.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:17 pm#7 - You’re wasting your breath. “Troll” has made up his mind, and the facts will not make a difference to his opinion.
He’s been given his talking points and told what his opinion should be, and he’s not going to be changing it just because someone is telling the truth about the Pres. Bush modus operandi on “attacking the messenger” when they don’t parrot your mendacity.
Because the neo-con Republicans are so pro-big-business and anti-environment, the only way they can change the rhetoric is to point out that failures of the Democratic Party. Rather than address the beam in their eye, they’re too busy pointing out the splinter in ours.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:18 pm6% of the worlds poulation are American and you produce 30% of worlds greenhouse gases
So everybody lets boycott american industrial goods …………..
March 20th, 2006 at 12:18 pmDon’t you love it that, there was a Government “minder” on hand to make sure the interview didn’t get out of hand? Come on you Republican Trolls! Open your eyes and see what’s going on? Saddam used to have government minders to monitor interviews. Now we do!
If we continue to turn a blind eye to scientific evidence, then we will be left behind the rest of the world! Wake up!
March 20th, 2006 at 12:19 pm#9 You mean like the forced lifestyle change that Pres. Bush is forcing on the rest of the nation by saying “Hey, big business, go ahead and pollute like there’s no tomorrow! We won’t mind, because by the time you destory the air we breath, we’ll be dead and won’t care anymore!”
March 20th, 2006 at 12:20 pmOK, got my fatuous comment out of the way, on to something more substantive.
Having read both of Jared Diamond’s most popular works, ‘Guns, germs and steel’ about how Europeans used their gift for killing people in large numbers to dominate the world up until they self-destructed in civil war in the first half of the 20th Century and more importantly ‘Collapse’ about how supposedly enlightened civilizations commit ecological suicide, I find myself little surprised by the approach of ecological night caused by human impact on climate.
The image that stucks with me is that of the man who chopped down the last tree on Easter Island, dooming him and his people to starvation. did he try to make a canoe of it to try and save himself and his family, or did he stoke up the fire, kill the next door neighbor and feast just one more time because the pain of hunger was too much.
What will be the thought of that person at the pump when the gasoline stops flowing out?
March 20th, 2006 at 12:20 pmCome on - which is more important - making money or the enviroment. We don’t need things like air to survive as long as we have money.
Jamie
March 20th, 2006 at 12:20 pmhttp://www.intoxination.net
Yeah thats right I hate the earth and the white house just emailed me my opinion like the communist society sent you yours.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:22 pmGeorge HW Bush - Earth summit 1992
“The American way of life is not negotiable”
Yes, you are correct, but not quite the way you think….
March 20th, 2006 at 12:26 pm“Lets hope the libs here take the lead and sell their SUVS and monster homes to lower their carbon footprint. Since they are sooo concerned about climate change. Oopps I forgot its all President Bushs fault.”
Well, let’s see….. The government has one of the largest fleet of cars. I think that if they were serious about the climate, that they would mandate that all cars from here on out MUST be a hybrid! Excluding those vehicles that require large amounts of power, such as SUV’s.
“no you just try to get the gov to force a lifestyle change on the rest of us.”
WHAT! You are freeking insane! Since when is it about the governement forcing lifestyle changes on you for something like this???? So it’s OK for the government to impose lifestyle changes on the rest of us as long as it suites you? I don’t particularly care for the fact that the government is trashing my Constitution, but people like you give King George this power. I don’t hear you complaining about the fact that the government can enter your house without your knowing it, called sneek and peak, but this is OK with you.
Get a clue troll!
March 20th, 2006 at 12:26 pm#2 No SUV here, a small Ford Contour - 8 years old and no air conditioner because it uses more gas. This vehicle is used by 3 people and I and my significant other ride the bus to and from work as it is offered free by the city if you work downtown.
You should try the bus, troll, it will be good for you to get a little exercise, save money and gas and help strengthen our nation and stop sucking it dry. Can you say the same?
FYI, I saw another Bush bumper sticker come down. And guess what, it was on an SUV, which is where I see most of them.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:27 pm#17 - Well at least your admitting the truth about being told what to think, there Mr. Troll.
By the way, when do you think I became a communist? Was it before or after I spent four years in the US Army? I shot your talking point down, so you’ve got to turn to your standard attacking points. Too bad for you that they just don’t work anymore.
Let me guess, you didn’t serve a day in your life, did you? Most likely not. Most neo-con trolls are pro-war, but chicken haws when it comes to returning service to the country.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:28 pmWhat’s with the trolls and the communism thing? Dude, that was SO yesterday. Get better insults will ya’ already?
March 20th, 2006 at 12:29 pmI’m not a communist. But I do have several Socialist leanings. health care, Social Security, educating our children. You trolls would be surprised to see how socialist you are as well.
Having said that, why would you think communism scares us? That’s a cry you use on the righy sites to stir up trouble.
Bush lied, & unfortunatly good GI’s (and Iraqi’s) died.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:29 pm#21 Just like the article on Raw Story, whiny insecure kids grow up to be republicans. I see they are still whiny and insecure.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:30 pm#20 - A pro-big-government, anti-environment troll ride the bus? They’d have to care about the air they breath to do that, and it aint gonna happen in my lifetime!
Don’t forget who it was who gave us the highest level of pollution from big-business and the fewest number of fines for big-business failing to adhere to the lowest standards available: Pres. Bush
March 20th, 2006 at 12:31 pmOh, truth, schmooth.
-George W. Orwell-Bush
March 20th, 2006 at 12:31 pmToo bad Carl is still not with us because he could set the record straight.
Though Dr. Sagan is one of the most frequently cited experts on atmospheric issues by the media, his predictions are often wrong. For example, at the outset of the Persian Gulf War, Sagan warned that if Saddam Hussein delivered on his threat to set fire to Kuwait’s oil wells, so much black soot would be sent into the stratosphere that sunlight would be blocked and a variation of the “nuclear winter” scenario would occur. Hussein followed through on his threat and by the close of the war over 600 wells were on fire. But the fires had little environmental or climatic effect beyond the Gulf region and virtually no ill effects globally.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:32 pmThe “government minder” was just amazing. Just like the reports from Iraq before the war. Saddam had “minders” for the press. Like the old Soviet Union. Like Cuba’s Castro. Or Syria.
Bush has become the authoritarian leader he claims to loathe.
We become what we think about.
-GSD
March 20th, 2006 at 12:35 pmTroll order # 1.
Never reason, always attack.
Had a Democrat or a liberal mentioned George W. Bush’s mansion or Bill Frists’ mansion–that would have been immediately attacked as “class warfare”.
As the group in power, the Bush Republicans still never have to be accountable. The moment any issue is brought up, they simply find some liberal to attack and commence firing.
Classic fascism, always attack and never apologise or show weakness.
America is fast becoming a totalitarian nation.
Heckuva job.
-GSD
March 20th, 2006 at 12:38 pmWhy should he be LET on the most progressive radio show in the country?
Maybe because someone their will ask the right questions and allow him time to answer the questions fully. Oooh…that sounds horrible….unamerican even.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:40 pm#22, strange that communism taunt. The Soviet Union (admittedly as a Stalinst, rather than a true communist nation) screwed it’s environment up worse than any other industrial nation on the planet. It tends to be liberal democracies with solid controls on industry that do best on the environment and before anyone celebrates Nixon’s embrace of the Clean Air Act, remember his popularity was next to Chimpy;s when he did it.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:41 pmBeing for a cleaner enviroment, I choose to drive a vehical, that gets good gas mileage. It is a common misconcetption among the right wing, that all Liberals are hypocrites, because they drive the same SUV’s as the wingers. However, I am planning on buying a new car soon, and my choice is the Honda Civic, I like the car, and it gets really good gas mileage. I could afford an SUV if I wanted one, but since gasoline is not likely to drop below $2.50 a gallon, I don’t want a gas guzzler.
I also live a “small” lifestyle. I don’t live in a huge house, I recycle as much as possible. I don’t waste resources etc. It is amazing to me how little conservatives ever seem to want to conserve. The whole point to conservation is to use less, not more.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:44 pmNeocons putting politics, religion, and greed before hard science. Why am I not surprised?
March 20th, 2006 at 12:50 pmHANSEN: In my more than three decades in the government, I’ve never witnessed such restrictions on the ability of scientists to communicate with the public.
How much evidence does the Average American need to understand that the Bush Administration does not care about the Constitution, or our rights?
I’m tired, as a Science teacher, of having to tip-toe around religion when organized religions don’t respect Science.
I knew his State of the Union speech on advancing science and math is the public education system was another big fat lie. But when will the rest of this country catch on?
March 20th, 2006 at 12:50 pmDoesn’t freedom of speech apply to scientists to? Who can prevent this guy from going on the air and speaking truth? Can he be fired for being a good scientist? I don’t understand why he doesn’t just go on NPR anyway.Or better yet, Pacifica - the real most liberal media, NPR has lost most of its teeth lately.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:53 pmall the trolls will be eating there words next hurricane season coming
there is a delayed effect on climate change the pollutants now will create the bad weather in 12 years
March 20th, 2006 at 12:54 pmi actually watched this interview. interesting to say the least. and i believe it.
http://www.HAARP.com—–informing.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:57 pmSuperstitious fundie kooks are just at war with reality on a whole host of subjects.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:58 pmFor those Trolls who did not view this last night - Hansen is not a liberal - he is independent. He said that the Clinton administration requested that he make his research look more dire than events actually were at the time, he refused. Unlike the Bush administration however, the Clinton administration never edited his research papers.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:01 pm#35 - according to the piece that aired last night, they can be fired or their careera placed in serious jepardy. Many have left and are now speaking out.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:03 pm#32 Civics run forever and are good reliable vehicles. That is how progressives shop for cars, as opposed to the republican values of “do I look good in this and will everybody assume I am rich?”
I really like the Subaru Forresters if one needs a 4 wheel drive, and the Outback’s are roomy too. Well, roomier than you would think and it has that GREAT 4wd.
Good luck on the car; here’s hoping for you a good deal.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:04 pmYou are so eager to demonize Bush you cant hear a legitimate criticism and do some self examination. Who is infantile? You are allmost all megaconsumers who are just as responsible for the polution of the earth as the next guy. Why dont you change your life if you are so convinced that we are destroying the earth. Practice what you preach. Teach each other a new way. Get over your obsessive hate of Bush and make a positive difference.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:04 pm#42 Who are you posting to? Most of here clearly exhibit much more control of our spending and as progressives, we care about the other guy as well as ourselves.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:06 pmAgain, Bush and the Bush Republicans always had a soft-spot for authoritarian-right leaders. They are becoming just like the Shah of Iran or Augusto Pinochet.
America is slipping into the soft-dictatorship that will gradually get more sever as the need to control the population grows.
Sandra Day O’Connor warned of dictatorship. Tom Delay tells her to fuck-off.
Nice Christian bunch.
-GSD
March 20th, 2006 at 1:07 pm“You are allmost all megaconsumers who are just as responsible for the polution of the earth as the next guy.”
Nice assumptions asshole. The left has been at the forefront of the conservation movement, recycling, renewable energy. Fat, druff addicted Rush Limbaugh is the one who has been saying to the cheers of corporate consumer advocates that there is no energy crisis, that everyone should use SUV’s and that calls for conservation were tantamount to communism.
Why don’t you go and preach some moderation and restraint over at Redstate or Free Republic.
-GSD
March 20th, 2006 at 1:10 pmDrug—not druff addicted..Although if there was a drug called druff =, I am sure that fat and childless junkie would have tried it.
-GSD
March 20th, 2006 at 1:11 pm#42 if you had bothered to read my post #32 you would see that my lifestyle is consistant with consuming less, and being kinder to the enviroment. You are to busy attacking liberals to bother to read anyones posts.
Pointing out that Bush ignores hard science in favor of his “gut reaction” is not demonizing him. I don’t need to demonize him. He does a great job of showing his own incompotence. I really do believe that Bush would be a swing shift manager at a taco bell if it wasn’t for his family connections.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:12 pm“Why don’t you go and preach some moderation and restraint over at Redstate or Free Republic.”
-GSD
Comment by Granite State Destroyer — March 20, 2006 @ 1:10 pm
Its obvious you have a problem with moderation and constraint so I figure Ill stay here and educate the ignorant.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:12 pmBush suppresses the TRUTH in so many ways.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:13 pm#42 Troll says “I know I am, but what are you?”
It’s not about anyone else sonny, it’s about how the government controls the facts reaching the public to further the ends of its main sponsors in industry. What’s your solution, sonny?
March 20th, 2006 at 1:13 pmLike Clinton and the dems dont suppress truth. What a joke.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:16 pmIt never ends. Every day I wonder how the trolls are going to spin the next Bush SNAFU and every day I think they cannot possibly be able to spin_____(you fill in the blank, there are so many), but once again I am amazed with their never ending talent to try to lay the blame elsewhere.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:17 pm#35 i’ll tell ya who will stop it. bush and his whackers. it is a common theme in this admin. to whoever speaks out when on his watch, if not retired or resigned, gets whacked. they, (bushco) call it suicide or make depression a crime to get rid of those whistle blowers. plain and simple.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:18 pm#51 you obviously did not watch 60 minutes last night or read other posts here or you would have the answer to that.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:18 pmahh the clinton retort. This is not about Clinton. This is about a deliberate effort on the part of the Bush admin to change the scientific facts as reported by their own climate specialists.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:20 pmIts obvious you have a problem with moderation and constraint so I figure Ill stay here and educate the ignorant.
Comment by troll — March 20, 2006 @ 1:12 pm
Amazingly, this is the mindset as Bush. The nation is being run by a bunch of people with the logic of petulant 13 year olds.
Go fuck yourself. This is the world the Bush Republicans are creating. It is so full of the compassionate-Christian ethos, so full of God’s love.
-GSD
March 20th, 2006 at 1:20 pmNow I know why Bush every time he gets a chance he goes and attacks nature directly by cutting brush on his ranch, he just can’t stand it unless he is destroying nature in some form or another every day.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:21 pmOh please get real you think the dems are straight up with the public. Grow up.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:21 pmOh yes, I forgot that the order to invade Iraq was issued by Bill Clinton’s cock.
-GSD
March 20th, 2006 at 1:21 pmGSD you are so full of hate you need help.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:22 pmYou need a little JESUS.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:24 pmI sure didn’t like the ‘watch dog lady’ listening to everything he said….shades of communists in Mao’s day. On the same show about the sperm doner. What if a male and female mate with both having the same dad? I wonder if someone has already checked into this. It seems half brother and half sister mating might not mix.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:25 pm#59
March 20th, 2006 at 1:25 pmThere are probably more brains cells in Clinton’s member than the void between Chimpy’s ears. nice one by the way.
That is the first time I have mentioned religion but GSD has brought it up numerous times.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:26 pmI am guessing by trolls childish retorts, that he has nothing left to say at this point.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:28 pmComment by troll — March 20, 2006 @ 1:22 pm
Oops. Now it is the “hate” label. See, back in the 1994 elections, the Republicans were ‘angry white men’ and their anger and hate were justified. Now in order to neueter liberals and the left, the talking point is to simply label critics as full of “hate” and to ignore the arguments as coming from some “Bush haters”.
They do forget that after 9/11 Bush had 90% approval—-so apparently alot of folks gave Bush the benefit of the doubt. Now that MOST Americans cannot stomach Bush anymorem they are simply written off as “haters”. It is a nice fascist rhetorical game.
Ignore the “haters” they are irrational. Nope, don’t look at what Bush and the Bush Republicans have don, just ignore what the “Bush Haters” are pointing out.
Nice game troll. Isn’t it time for a DHS programming meeting? Maybe a quick session in th closet with Ken Mehlman or David Drier?
How about some “healthy” Hillary Hating? It is OK to “hate” Hillary, but don’t be critical of Dear Leader George W.
-GSD
March 20th, 2006 at 1:28 pmSorry nothing useful to say at this point.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:29 pmYou need a little JESUS..he said ‘blessed are the warmongers’?
Nope that was blessed are the peacemakers.
Why don’t you get some churching up and stop judging others.
-GSD
March 20th, 2006 at 1:29 pmDo these idiots in the White House think that when the oceans rise and the air is unbreathable their money will protect them?
What damn planet are they from?
March 20th, 2006 at 1:30 pmHi rush, I see your using ‘troll’ to post with. Jesus and Clinton is your ‘weapon’ of the day?…..yawnnnnnnnnnnn.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:31 pmWhat arguement? Oh the “a**hole arguement. That one certainly deserved an intelligent response.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:32 pmI think this is more the sympton of placing corporate rights above citizen rights. The republicans under their failed economic plan want us to believe that by favoring corporations we will have a great economy. Nevermind that this policy failed under Reagan, and is failing under Bush.
Can we start labeling the republicans as “barrow and spend”? At least under the “tax and spend” democrats shit got paid for.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:33 pmThat “fascist” arguement was brilliant too. You got me.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:35 pmWhat the radical-right conveniently forgets in the rhetoric wars about pollution is that individual citizens changing their consumption habits has an incredibly minor effect on the state of big-business and the massive pollution that they cause.
Does it help when some consumers use less gas and take mass transit? Of course it does!
Does it hurt when other consumers refuse to give up driving their 10 MPG gas guzzlers just because they can afford to pay $2.75 for premium gas? Of course it does!
The key point is that the radical-right must frame the argument in such a way that everyone on the pro-environment side MUST live in a cave and only use environment friendly products before they’ll admit that they just don’t give a crap about saving the environment beyond the next election cycle.
While the pro-environmentalists arguments tend towards the worst possible scenario (Global warming will melt the ice-caps and we’ll all die! Once we deplete the ozone layer, we’ll all die!) the anti-environmental arguments tend towards the best possible scenario (Global warming is only a theory! The ozone layer will fix itself!)
The worst that will happen if the pro-environmentalists are wrong is that pollution will be reduced and big-business will clean up their act.
The worst that will happen if the anti-environmentalists are wrong is that we’ll cease to exist as a species.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:38 pmAnf the “Rush arguement”. Where did you guys learn all these incredible debate strategies?
March 20th, 2006 at 1:38 pmTroll
I believe that I have refuted your arguments. you have retreated into name calling, and so has GSD.
This is a failure on both your parts. However you have not posted any logical arguments since your first post. you have simply posted the same tired rants we see continually here.
I will respond to post about the democrats spinning the truth. No one should do it. I personally am of the opinion that we need to toss both parties and try something different.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:39 pmRepublicans are incompetent criminals. Nixon? Bush? Reagan? Hey, Repubs, just accept the fact that your small govt., own your own healthcare party is a failure.
Just let the progressives take care of it all. We’ll take care of you!
March 20th, 2006 at 1:43 pmCommunist, umm ya, sure buddy.
Keep telling yourself that all those people who are against Bush are communists. I am sure it will make the pain of the national debt to communist China so much easier to bare.
The simple fact is that the world has just witnessed some serious fucking weather in 2005 with Katrina, and just now with Cyclone Larry in Australia (Who names these things? Come on, Larry? What is it, the Cyclone thats looking for love?) We need to actually start doing something about what we are doing to the enviroment or there isn’t going to be an enviroment left for us. It isn’t like we can just up and leave.
Currently America is the Number 1 polluter, and it is also the country which has done least about it. You wouldn’t even sign the Kyoto protocols. This is an issue which both Democrats and Republicans have failed on, but that DOES NOT MAKE IT ALRIGHT. Got it? If you robbed a bank and you said “But he did it too!” while pointing at someone else, you know what would happen? The other guy would get arrested - TOO. Maybe, just maybe it is time for a little bit of common sense to sink into American politics.
This issue is a major issue. It is a simple issue which we need to sort out, and all of this “But he did it too” doesn’t exactly mean much when the Republicans are the guys who are currently in power, and particularly when the Republicans have all three houses. It is something which we as a species have to, in the name of our continued survival, do something about.
Now, what can be done? I don’t know. My guess is that oil companies need to recieve less funding, and that research into viable energy sources needs to be stepped up. Bush, during his reign did the reverse of that. We also need to stop dicking around with the North Pole looking for oil and start preparing for the enviromental fallout which we are headed towards.
We need something akin to the space race, but this time with cheap, clean safe and viable alternatives to petrol as the target, we need it phrased as a quest, something for people to get behind. We don’t need the oil tycoons making out as though breathable air is somehow un-American.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:46 pmAl Gore said the Auto is the single greatest threat to mankind. lawnmowers emit allmost as much as cars. I think change of lifestyle goes far beyond that though. How we consume is as important. If people demand change by changing the way they consume corporations will respond in a big way. Its about money for everyone. If you dont buy it they will ask why and respond to you.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:46 pmTroll - now that was a great argument. Our city requires that our grass be a certain height. If you are over this height you will be ticketed. I can understand wanting the neighborhood to look good, but when you need to mow at least once a week, that is just wasteful.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:50 pm(al gore and the auto?)…ok,if you say so.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:53 pm“Al Gore said the Auto is the single greatest threat to mankind. lawnmowers emit allmost as much as cars. troll”
Were you born an idiot, or did you simply learn it.
1) The average american who commutes drives their car 1 hour a day.
2) They mow their lawn seldom
3) A large number of americans don’t have lawns, that do have cars
4) Every adult member of a household typically have a car, but there’s only one lawnmower
5) Many lawnmowers are electric, but few cars are
3) The carbon footprint of ‘cars’ is therefore SIGNIFICANTLY higher than that of lawnmowers.
And troll shows why republicans make bad scientists - they’re too retarded to put anything in scientific or numeric context.
Troll, you’re an idiot - and you can’t do simple math - you must be a republican.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:53 pm#79 The lawnmower is the single greatest threat to mankind? Quick, sell John Deere before it tanks.
Jules, take a stand for the environment won’t you? Troll is demanding that you show the market and government that you won’t take anymore - stop cutting your grass!
March 20th, 2006 at 1:56 pmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/ 2/ hi/ science/ nature/ 4688000.stm
March 20th, 2006 at 1:57 pmCompanies, and corporations have done a terrible job of policing themeselves. Auto makers refused to place seatbelts in cars until legislation was passed that mandated seatbelts, until the rise of the labor union, companies often treated workers like slaves, with low wages long hours, and risky work environments. You are correct that companies will change if consumers force them too, but it is something that needs to be done together.
As I posted earlier, I live small, I recycle, and I drive a vehicle that gets good gas mileage and pollutes less. I have also advocated that we switch motor vehicles to using non-petroluem based products. for example bio-desiels, or alcohol fuels.
I think one of the biggest differences between progressives, and republicans is a social concious. I believe that my actions affect others, and I would prefer that we all live well. Republicans seem to have to concern for any but them selves. The “I have mine, and you can go die” mindset. I think that we need to recognize that our actions do affect others, and that we need to work together, not just in the US but world wide for the common good.
Before I get attacked as a loony peacenick, I would like to add that defeating men like Bin Laden, is important, but so is establishing social and economic justice world wide. I realize this would require changes to many middle eastern cultures, however those are culture changes, they cannot be applied by force.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:00 pmGet out a push mower. I do. Have a garden. I do. I am not a Bush lover or hater. I am frustrated with people who only bitch about the gov rather than take responsibility. Its allways Bush this and Bush that. It should be “Let there be clean air and let it begin with me.” But instead I hear the only people who allegedly care playing the blame game but doing nothing but putting hope in a pollitical victory that may or may not happen and if it does may or may not achieve the desired end.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:00 pmYou can pry my John Deere from my cold dead hands…
March 20th, 2006 at 2:07 pmscience schmience… stifling the truth shall set you free… God told me so…
March 20th, 2006 at 2:10 pm#86 - Just a quick question: were you as mad about the people who bitched, moaned and wailed about Pres. Clinton as much as you seem to be mad about those who are doing it to Pres. Bush?
Are you an equal opportunity “mad at” person, or does it only work one-way with you?
March 20th, 2006 at 2:14 pmWe become what we think about.
-GSD
If that is true then the repubs are very very gay.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:18 pm#84 Very good Tracy, now the multi nationals will go after the resources and destroy that area also………
March 20th, 2006 at 2:19 pm“Get out a push mower. I do. Have a garden. I do. I am not a Bush lover or hater. I am frustrated with people who only bitch about the gov rather than take responsibility. troll idiot”
And just like bush you ‘assume’ a lot, without any factual basis - just like the morons who tried to silence the scientists. You’re as much of a problem as bush is. How do you even know what our personal habits are. If you want to ‘affect’ someone, talk to I-RIGHT-I (your fellow reichwing troll) who drives a 5000 pound SUV. As for the habits of ‘progressives’, you assume a lot, with no proof, no facts, but a lot of assumptions. And you know what an ‘assumption’ always begins with don’t you? Give you a hint, it begins with the first 3 letters.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:21 pmtroll, Puhleeze…you aren’t so magnanimous that you are trying to educate us or cajole us to live a less polluting life.
Look at the balance of your posts. You have yet to address the central issue of the thread. You’ve accused many of the rest here of man things. You are trying to threadjack, you’ve been insulting and quite dumb about it. You’ve shown that you have contempt for those who don’t feel like you and you’ve shown pride in your own ignorance.
Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn. You are a troll and not worth any of our time or the bandwidth you take up.
God has to love you cause no one else does.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:21 pmBetter hold the government of that country responsible if that happens. Don’t let them in.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:29 pmRyan, troll is saving the earth with his pushmower. I think that really speaks for itself. If he is dealing with the same IQ as Bush, he better not wave while operating that machinery; I see an ugly accident waiting to happen.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:31 pmDem Soldier ,
It depended what they were mad about. I get angry at Bush too. But to pretend that the dems will do anything much different in regards to the climate is dreaming. If they did it would most likely wreck the economy which would bring back the republicans. Bottom line is people, conservative and demacrat alike, are primarily concerned with their own economic well being if environmental laws affect that then goodbye environmental laws. Gov is good for nothing but getting in the way and as I have said before I don’t want massive federal bureaucracy stripping me of freedom any more than I want massive conglomorates. The solution to one abusive master is not to run into the arms of another.
Krazny. Why constantly label people. I was wrong on the communist thing ok I was having fun. But consevatives are not as self centered as you would like to believe. We are not anti-environment but are often anti-environmentalists because of our perception of them as crazy freaks. Its not any more accurate than your perception of republicans. We see thing differently but we love our children too.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:34 pmRyan I live in CT a very liberal state and have eyes to see it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to notice the hypocracy.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:39 pmTroll,
I am going by what I have read posted on this board. You are not the only right of center to post here. I have not so far seen the usual crowd here today. I am have never said that you do not love your children. My statements are based on my observations. I have found that many right wingers do not seem to care for anything beyond their families and their half acre of heaven. I have seen many posts decrying paying taxes that help support social programs, like medicare, social security, and education benefits like pell grants. I would prefer that my taxes go to helping my fellow citizens, then to paying for a war in Iraq. I try not too make generalizations about people. I am not always succesful.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:46 pm#58- Alright, troll, I’ll say it. Democrats lie also. Happy now? So now that that is settled, perhaps you will enlighten us as to why it is that BushCo. alters scientific studies, with the intention of concealing the real information from the American people, and hiding vital information, that might interfere with their business goals, such as doing EVERYTHING they possibly can, to ensure the unfettered operations of their corporate cohorts. Free from annoying things, like environmental standards, for example. Safety standards, which BushCo. barely gives lip service. They just HATE to burden those huge corporations with rules and regulations that might cost them some money to comply with. No good. Of course, most of these fragile companies have to base themselves outside of the US, since they tend to get “The Vapors”, when faced with the prospect of having to pay taxes here!! Heaven Forbid!! All I am saying is, GWB should be addressing our issues as well. He helps coporations hold tight to as much of their money as they can, and then he shares the actual scientific data with us, then produces a realistic national healthcare system as well. We just want some “equal” opportunity goodies too. And hey, it’s cheaper than a “war”, you know?
March 20th, 2006 at 2:48 pm“Ryan I live in CT a very liberal state and have eyes to see it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to notice the hypocracy. Comment by troll”
Nor apparently does it take it spell ‘hypocrisy’. You’re not winning points on intellect, argument or observation skills.
A huge chunk of americans don’t realize that we’re facing global warming, because bush and his cronies silence science - the point of this thread, and something you seem witlessly incapable of realizing.
Your excuse is to hide your head and use a pushmower - how’s that working for you moron, have you changed the world with it yet?
The fact is we have to have public policy on this issue, and I would be screaming whether this was a republican or a democrat silencing science. You apparently prefer to attack the messengers in true dysfunctional alcoholic childhood syndrome.
Get over yourself, and do something useful, instead of being dead weight - idiot.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:50 pm“It depended what they were mad about. I get angry at Bush too. But to pretend that the dems will do anything much different in regards to the climate is dreaming. troll”
Hmmm… I seem to recall Clinton signing kyoto and working very hard for to convince the republican morons in congress to do more about global warming. And Gore has written books on the necessity of dealing with the environment and global warming.
Yet again in the absence of any evidence to support a claim, with clear evidence that refutes it, a republican troll makes retarded and obviously false statements. That’s what we call a LIAR troll.
“If they did it would most likely wreck the economy which would bring back the republicans. troll”
Hehe, ironic. The moron says take personal responsibility, then says action to help the environment would wreck the economy.
You’ve spoken like a true idiot, and exactly the sort of anti-science and anti-reason moron who works for bush. You aren’t left of anything, except left behind intellectually.
Your ‘assumption’ that doing things to improve the environment would be wrecking the economy, is as retarded as people that argued in the early 20th century that cars would wreck the economy because all of the horse stables and buggy makers would go out of business.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:57 pmNo Ryan I have not changed the world but at least I can have an adult conversation it is you who are attacking the messanger. It is you who are exhibiting the rage associated with adult child syndrom. But I forgive you.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:59 pmNew scientific study proves whiney, insecure children grow up to be conservative. The study has been conducted since the 1960s and was just released. Geez, I wonder what troll was like - I already know MizzWrong and Mighty Moron were this way, because they STILL ARE!!
March 20th, 2006 at 3:01 pm#83 are you going to pay the fines for my not cutting my grass? I would love to take a stand for the environment but down here in Texas they will actually have someone from the city cut it and bill you for it.
I am not agreeing with what Mr. Troll says, but I am glad that he has stopped the name calling that so many trolls like to resort to. Now that he has refrained from that and is trying to have a debate, even if you are not finding merit in his arguement. Can you all refrain from attacking and perhaps return to informing?
March 20th, 2006 at 3:02 pm“No Ryan I have not changed the world but at least I can have an adult conversation it is you who are attacking the messanger. It is you who are exhibiting the rage associated with adult child syndrom. But I forgive you. Comment by troll ”
You’re projecting your own rage, I’m typing quite calmly - but that doesn’t change the fact you’re an idiot, who thinks having in adult conversation consists of ignoring the topic of discussion, accusing those you know nothing about of doing things you don’t know they do, and all the while pretending to be something you aren’t.
See moron, I speak to my audience. You came on this site acting like a child, and I treat you like one. It is you who is being the ‘whiney child’, just like the survey talks about - but in typical republican fashion you prefer to project your own weaknesses and failures on others.
For instance, I posted corrections on the economic and political outcomes of democrats based on past actions, and instead of responding to those FACTS, you say I have rage.
Now THAT’s funny coming from you, someone who’s clearly so wrapped up in rage that you feel compelled to come to a liberal site and attack people for working to do the right thing. That’s a ‘hypocrite’ my friend, and it’s even spelled correctly.
March 20th, 2006 at 3:04 pmTroll - my clan is from the NY/CT area. Family has had land in Fairfield County for 6 or more generations. I won’t go into where, it isn’t important.
CT is a very moderate state. I wouldn’t call them liberals. With the likes of the republican Senators you give the Union, Lowell Weiker, Lieberman… they are moderates because they are republicans. Oh, you say that Lieberman is a Democrat? No WAY! You’ve got to be kidding me? Maybe he filled out his election form wrong.
Anyhow, I like CT. I still visit my family up there when i go home for visits. But a state dominated by the insurance industry (Hartford), arms manufactureres (although a lot less of those than there used to be, be thankful for Sturm, Ruger) and god I hope Electric Boat stays around in Groton, you are going to have moderate to conservative, not liberal types.
Now, go take a day Skiing at Mohawk Mountain & wish I was there.
chao.
March 20th, 2006 at 3:10 pmBetter hold the government of that country responsible if that happens. Don’t let them in.
Comment by Tracy — March 20, 2006 @ 2:29 pm
That usually results in military action on the part of our government when the multinationals don’t get their way; see Iran 1954, Chile 1973, Vietnam 1954-1975, Panama 1989, Iraq 2002-present, Iran TBA, for some examples…..
March 20th, 2006 at 3:20 pmAnd the trolls use this article to fling insults and charges against the Democrats — they are so unable to face the fact that we are ALL inhabitants here and we are all responsible.
March 20th, 2006 at 3:22 pmThe Bush administration’s penchant for filtering and editing news reports and scientific reports that are adverse to their policies of enriching themselves is keeping necessary information from the public, disallowing them to make informed (and difficult) choices and pressuring our representatives to enact the proper legislation and provide safeguards for the future.
Added to this outrage, Bush&Co had a mindersit in on the interview — something we recently read about Saddam Hussein having done.
Troll, good for you on your pushmower, but we have a much bigger problem than one that pushmowers will solve. And the sooner we have government awareness, acceptance and efforts to resolve the problems - the better for the world. See, what I think you’re too stupid to realize, is that even if stopped using cars tomorrow, we may be too late with global warming. Your ‘personal responsibility’ speech is useless in that case, and it will require massive government and international efforts to deal with the severe climate change.
You’re worried about the economy today, but unless we plan, in a few years or decades the climate change could be so severe we have no economies to speak of - it’s called ‘collapse’ kiddo.
So while you twiddle your thumbs like a nitwit (just as those in the administration do), the world is getting a swirlie. Grow up, and realize you have an obligation to this society and our children. Don’t be such a fool.
Here’s from the DOE.
March 20th, 2006 at 3:27 pm#107
In what way did multi-nationals not getting their way have to do with those examples you cited?
March 20th, 2006 at 4:02 pmthe full 60minute segment and lots more info at crooksandliars…
March 20th, 2006 at 4:04 pmbe sure to read the update - Rep. Brad Miller is looking for more “instances of censoring, intimidating, blacklisting or whatever”…
#110 - Tracy, the 1953 coup in Iran was initiated as a response to the Iranians nationalizing British and US oil interests in Iran. Try reading ‘All the Shah’s Men’ for the history of the 1953 Iranian coup. It helps understand why the average Iranian is monumentally pissed off at the US today.
March 20th, 2006 at 4:12 pmHow are the ratings for “60 Minutes”??? I haven’t watched that tripe for years - since Jack Kervorkian committed on-air homicide. In fact, since Dan Blather got involved in the ‘04 election…I’ve stayed away from CBS. Now Mr. Aphrodite may watch it for some sport shows….is NASCAR and/or the NFL on CBS???
March 20th, 2006 at 4:31 pm#112
In what way did multi-nationals not getting their way have to do with those examples cited?
March 20th, 2006 at 4:35 pmSaw this last night!! Pissed me off!! Sounded like some fascist dictatorship controlling scientists, but its right here in the U.S.!! We have only 10 years to do something before we reach the critical “tipping point” of climate change! That scared the hell out of me! Americans should be just as enraged with this as they were with the ports deal! Do we want to see another Katrina people?? Hurricanes are getting fiercer damnit because of OUR emmisions of greenhouse gases! A category 5 cyclone just hit Australia! Connect the dots people!! In the big scheme of things global warming is a far greater threat to the world than terrorism is!! Wake up people!
March 20th, 2006 at 4:38 pmmighty aphrodite,
How are the ratings for “60 Minutes�?? I haven’t watched that tripe for years
Well that helps explain how you are so ignorant!
March 20th, 2006 at 4:39 pmIn what way did multi-nationals not getting their way have to do with those examples cited?
Comment by Tracy — March 20, 2006 @ 4:35 pm
Chile…ITT…Kisinger….Pinchotet, sort of ring a bell?
March 20th, 2006 at 4:42 pmAphro really, why all the excessive puncuation? I’m dying to know.
March 20th, 2006 at 4:44 pmThe bottom line…..
Bush has no qualifications to be a president, but we americans put him in power for two terms in a row!!! This is trully unvelievable.
The Bush administration is the worst EVER!!!!!
The rest of the word thinks so.
Now American is begining to realize so. Bush should be impeached.
March 20th, 2006 at 4:46 pmNow American is begining to realize so. Bush should be impeached.
Comment by Redo — March 20, 2006 @ 4:46 pm
No Bush should be made to stand in a corner for about 2 1/2 years for his infantile behavior,…but impeach the rest of them!
March 20th, 2006 at 5:03 pmWhere were you folks when Clinton was setting fires in waco or shooting babies in Ruby Ridge or surpressing free speech using RICO laws? Big government has a tendancy towards fascism no matter who is in charge. This is not suprising. What is suprising is that the same people who are complaining about it presently still want bigger government.
March 20th, 2006 at 5:05 pm“Where were you folks when Clinton was setting fires in waco or shooting babies in Ruby Ridge or surpressing free speech using RICO laws? Big government has a tendancy towards fascism no matter who is in charge. This is not suprising. What is suprising is that the same people who are complaining about it presently still want bigger government. Comment by troll”
Ah, now the Nazi comes out in full force. Instead of dealing with the failures at hand, the poor pathetic troll brings up unrelated, irrelevant and nonsense arguments to avoid admitting the failures at hand. And to excuse himself for not doing anything, he uses the excuse that democrats didn’t do anything for his ‘pet interests’, like the anti-abortionists who murder doctors under the guise of ‘free speech’.
Yeah, this is the typical troll. Off topic, off his rocker, and inept.
Once again Troll Moron, you demonstrate why republicans are whiners as children (see recent study), and even bigger whiners as adults. You justify your failures by claiming others failed before - how ‘adult’ of you - NOT.
Grow up child.
March 20th, 2006 at 5:15 pm“How are the ratings for “60 Minutesâ€??? I haven’t watched that tripe for years - since Jack Kervorkian committed on-air homicide. In fact, since Dan Blather got involved in the ‘04 election…I’ve stayed away from CBS. Now Mr. Aphrodite may watch it for some sport shows….is NASCAR and/or the NFL on CBS??? Comment by mighty aphrodite ”
Hehe, why would you care what ratings are, otherwise you’d worry about O’Leilly’s and Hannity both tanking. Or you’d worry about all of those ‘polls’ where your party is as unpopular as you were in high school.
And I see you have no problem with ‘Faux’ news and O’Leilly getting involved in the election with false claims, and the Smear Boaters.
And Mighty Moron, did you miss the study that just came out today that shows Conservatives tend to be ‘whiners’ and ‘insecure’ as children - you prove this never changes no matter how old you get.
March 20th, 2006 at 5:18 pm#118
My question was more to the point of whether the U.S. engaged in the Chiliean coup strictly interests of ITT or was it just part of the global Cold War being fought against the Soviets with their unrelenting attempts to spread communism around the world, which we all know is a failed system.
http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-12696.html
March 20th, 2006 at 5:27 pmThis response is a bit late because I was away from this thread for a long bit:
March 20th, 2006 at 5:28 pm#82 - RN,
troll assumes that every power mower is being used by a lawn service company. He probably releases more green house gasses cutting his lawn by hand than he would with a gas or electric device. You know the sequence - inhale, exhale, fart, belch.
#86 - troll,
How’s your garden growing? I am getting enough veggies and greens out of mine to make the green grocer unnecessary - like for the last two weeks or so. Tomatoes and eggplant are still a few weeks out. Bananas are starting to come in. I live in FL though, slightly longer growing season than CT.
It was for Alende’s nationalising ITT assests in that country, along with others.
March 20th, 2006 at 5:38 pm#125, well, I can’t comment on the Chile business connection, I know little of it, but I would have though that overthrowing an elected government and installing a murderous fascist dictatorship is a morally wrong and ultimately self-defeating (as in Iran and Chile) policy whether its for IBM, ITT, BP, Exxon or using the Cold War as an excuse.
March 20th, 2006 at 5:39 pm#127 ah, thanks Clif, what about Panama and Vietnam? Before my arrival in the Western Hemisphere - although I’d never heard of 400 innocent people being killed in a drug arrest until Panama.
March 20th, 2006 at 5:41 pmPanama was because George Bush’s 41 man Noriega got out of hand and wouldn’ty take orders. He fronted for the Reagan administration in the 80’s aiding the contras after the congress cut off funds. Noreiga also was complicient in the CIA’s drug trade of the 80’s. By 89 he grew a pair, slammed Bush41 in speeches and actions and Bush slapped him down for it. Given we had some serious military bases there(I did jungle warfare school in 79 at Ft Sherman) taking control of the country and getting Noriega was a fore gonr conclusion as soon as they went after him.
March 20th, 2006 at 5:49 pmI like the suggestion of Boycotting American Products, except that America doesn’t produce anything anymore. Except Big Pick-ups (a big world market for those) and Microsoftware. You have to look long and hard to find a product not “Made in China”.
The greatest social experiment in history has “lost it’s Moral Focus” The Land of the Free is now a Police State. God Bless America. Is that ironic, or what?
March 20th, 2006 at 5:54 pmAh, not the first CIA asset to be head of state and toppled by his handler, and probably won’t be the last. So is it credible to argue that the herion trade from SEA was a cause or an effect of the Vietnam involement?
March 20th, 2006 at 5:56 pmWalt
I assume no such thing. however methane emissions do indeed contribute to the greenhouse effect. I envy your growing season. The point is we are not cutting as much grass, maybe cutting down on transportations emissions and we have the added benifit of it drawing us back to the earth.
RHC
I was on topic for once this thread. What it’s not on topic if I’m not agreeing with you?
Your unenlightened speech reeks of the fascism you acuse me and President Bush of exercising. Most of those charged under RICO were not guilty of anyhing other than peaceful protest and the supreme court recently struck down his use of it to supress their rights as unconstitutional.
Ryan
Thanks for more insults, they just bring so much to the conversation. I would rather die a free man than live under the brutal tyranny which will surely come if we are not vigilant and do not control this monster we call government. I hope we can have grassroots movement to address the climate issue for two reasons. First it would yield more immediate results. Second it would not empower rhe monster.
Buy the way you made a grammatical error in your last post should I be all over you for that?
March 20th, 2006 at 6:12 pmPeace
Terry Vietnam is a study of idelogical stupidity trumping both good stragitic and foriegn policy, it started with the US trying to prop France up after WW2 with aiding them to reestablish their colony of French Indochina. When that failed they genisuses in the CIA and DOD decided to fight the indiginous leaders who had helped defeat the japanese and had just defeated the French. They proped up a dictator that might have even made Saddam blush andnever actuallyasked what are their real stragitic goals that makes vietnam so important, they just slowly sunk into the quicksand until the were directally confronted at the gulf of Tonkin after a raid on North Vietnam by Cia and Marine assests covered by the US Navy. Given the incident the preowar hawks got Johnson to ask congress for a resolution which they turned into the premission to eventually base 550,00 US troops in the fight and when TET showed the plan as untenable westmorland asked LBJ to double the American committment which Johnsobn wouldn’t do and the shift to vietnamisation had begun.
In some ways we are near that stage in Iraq where the military brains that be are pushing for Iraq to stand up so we can stand down, rings like the old vietnamisation policy.
But since neither Vietnam had nor does Iraq have the logistical capability to support their army, neither do the have the Air assests or the industrial base to support the army we are standing up either we prop it up with all the support it needs or the Iraq Army will suffer the same fate as the South Vietnam Army did after congress cut off funding in 1974.
March 20th, 2006 at 6:13 pmRemember, it’s religion, religion, religion. God has been proven, and science is just a bunch of made up crap. Back to fundementalism and feudalism.
March 20th, 2006 at 6:51 pmWhere do you guys come up with this crap? You create a strawman out of the religious belief of some and us it to discredit the whole. Its only working on making the extreme element of the left crazier and the left less palatable to middle America.
March 20th, 2006 at 6:58 pmYesterday, 60 Minutes aired a powerful segment documenting how the Bush administration has muzzled the government’s top global warming researcher, James Hansen.
I don’t see any anti religious bias there so you are making your comment up:
You create a strawman out of the religious belief of some and us it to discredit the whole. Its only working on making the extreme element of the left crazier and the left less palatable to middle America.
Or better said you are a hypocrit doing what you accuse us of…………………hypocrit, sort of like those chickenhawks wgho call for war when they did and don’t fight themselves…………..hypocrit, like the repugs who call for fiscal diciplin and spend faster than those they demonise………….hypocrit, like the congress decrying the Clinton Administration of being corupt while running the K street shakedown………….hypocrit ..hypocrit…hypocrit, why are all you on the right so good at it?
March 20th, 2006 at 7:12 pm“Where do you guys come up with this crap? troll”
Good question, you should ask yourself that one, and why you can’t stay on topic - perhaps ADD, or just KKK.
Either way, grow up strawman, because this entire post IS a strawman on your part.
See ‘fascism’ is rightwing you retard, and ‘communism’ is left wing. You calling a leftie a ‘fascist’ is utterly retarded, just like everything else you post.
And your idea of ‘grassroots’ is retarded, because this blog is exactly that you fool. It’s a grassroots effort to change our government, and unlike your FASCIST view of the world, the goverment IS US, and therefore MUST listen to us, whether they like it or not.
You really need to wake up, and stop being such an idiot.
“Buy the way you made a grammatical error in your last post should I be all over you for that? troll”
Help yourself, it’s a problem with typing too fast, my brain gets ahead of keys - but at least I can spell basic english. Buy a dictionary, or use a free one.
March 20th, 2006 at 7:15 pm“Its only working on making the extreme element of the left crazier and the left less palatable to middle America. Comment by troll”
The funniest thing is you simultaneously play BOTH roles, the extreme left, and the extreme right, without having a half a brain between either roles.
Fool.
March 20th, 2006 at 7:16 pmKeep telling yourself this stuff Ryan they will be hauling you to the loony bin soon.
Clif did you bother to read the comment bedore mine. Take a look you may learn something.
March 20th, 2006 at 7:23 pm#126
and the others?….
The Soviets having military advisers and in Peru along with being the major military hardware supplier to leftist Genreal Alvarado who ousted democratically elected Fernando Belaúnde Terry was not a cause for U.S. concern?
March 20th, 2006 at 7:23 pmThat comment was sarcasm if you can’t tell that you are not a hypocrit but a dumb hypocrit…..
March 20th, 2006 at 7:29 pm#133
Would North Vietnam been able to suceed in getting the U.S. to pull out of South Vietnam if it weren’t for the financial and military backing of the Soviets? SUPPOSEDLY without other state sponsored backing of the insurgents in Iraq, will that be enough of a significant dfifference so that Iraq will not become another Vietnam?
March 20th, 2006 at 7:32 pmHey Ryan try loking up Fascism and you will dicover that I used the term appropriately.
From dictionary.com
fas·cist
March 20th, 2006 at 7:32 pmn.
1)often Fascist An advocate or adherent of fascism.
2)A reactionary or dictatorial person.
#140 I posted about Chile, not Peru if you look at a map they actually are seperate South American countries not corporate states…. but given your reich wingnut bias I am not suprised you couldn’t tell the difference…
March 20th, 2006 at 7:33 pm“Keep telling yourself this stuff Ryan they will be hauling you to the loony bin soon. Troll”
Something tells me you’re an expert - your cognitive dissonance is probably a lifelong affliction based on your reactionary and hysterical inability to process basic facts and arguments.
As for your retarded argument.
The American Heritage Dictionary instead describes Fascism as “A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism.”
Troll, you need a better dictionary, maybe that’s why you keep screwing up so bad, and looking so stupid.
And you’re the moron who came here and ‘dictated’ that we should give up and allow king george to ‘dictate’ his NeoNazi policies. You aren’t anti-fascist, you are in fact part of the fascist and autocratic government apparatus, whether you intend to be or not.
You can ‘disent’ all you want, but I can call you a fool for being one - that’s also free speech, idiot.
March 20th, 2006 at 7:41 pmNo different factions in Iraq have the backing of different elements out of the middle east, the sunni’s have the Saudis and Al Quaeda element, the religious fundementalists shiites like Al Sadar have Iran but given the fact that we are basing the Iraqi military on the British-US model then they need the logistics and air power or they are sitting ducks just as the soviets were in Afghanistan were through out the 80’s. Given that fact and the fact that the Iraqi military have no air assests or logistical capability either in their military or industrial base they will have to continue tyo rely on the support of the americans for a while. They latest ‘Air Assult” campaign shows this fact in spades even though the soldiers on the ground were 700 Americans to 800 Iraqi all the Air support , logistical and heavy artillery and armor assests were US, thus it was an Iraqi face on an US controlled mission…..
March 20th, 2006 at 7:42 pmSorry Clif I get it now. Thank you.
March 20th, 2006 at 7:44 pmNo problem if I can help a troll to learn I am more than willing to help….
March 20th, 2006 at 7:47 pmSure you can ignore the facts all you want but who is the fool? We were discussing the word fascist not fascism but not to wrorry we understand your simply a mental midget. You wil discover it reads the same in the American Heritage Diction