Army Embraces Iraq-Vietnam Analogy
Army Embraces Iraq-Vietnam Analogy
In April 2004, President Bush rejected analogies between Iraq and Vietnam, saying such a comparison “sends the wrong message to our troopsâ€:
QUESTION: What does that say to you and how do you answer the Vietnam comparison?
THE PRESIDENT: I think the analogy is false. I also happen to think that analogy sends the wrong message to our troops, and sends the wrong message to the enemy.
But the Wall Street Journal reports today that America’s military commanders are looking to Vietnam for lessons on how to deal with violence in Iraq:
The last time Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld visited Baghdad, back in December, the top U.S. military commander there gave him an unusual gift.
Gen. George Casey passed him a copy of “Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife: Counterinsurgency Lessons from Malaya and Vietnam,” written by Lt. Col. John Nagl. Initially published in 2002, the book is brutal in its criticism of the Vietnam-era Army as an organization that failed to learn from its mistakes and tried vainly to fight guerrilla insurgents the same way it fought World War II. […]
Col. Nagl’s book is one of a half dozen Vietnam histories — most of them highly critical of the U.S. military in Vietnam — that are changing the military’s views on how to fight guerrilla wars. […]
The embrace of these Vietnam histories reflects an emerging consensus in the Army that in order to move forward in Iraq, it must better understand the mistakes of Vietnam.
Rumsfeld should read Col. Nagl’s book carefully. Maybe then he’d stop making false comparisons between Iraq and post-WWII Germany.
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The Viet Cong are in their last throes.
March 20th, 2006 at 11:08 amWe told all these trolls and they didn’t believe us. I wonder if they will ever listen to logic. I liked the article on Raw Story that notes that whiny, insecure children grow up to be conservative most of the time. I could have told them that too.
March 20th, 2006 at 11:12 amMission Accomplished.
March 20th, 2006 at 11:12 amlet’s see , who do I believe, Murtha or bush..hmmmmm?
March 20th, 2006 at 11:12 amAnybody read this ??????disturbing
War crime?
According to eyewitnesses and local officials interviewed over the past 10 weeks, the civilians who died in Haditha were killed not by the roadside bomb but by the Marines themselves. They went on a rampage in the village after the attack, killing 15 unarmed Iraqis in their homes, including seven women and three children, the magazine said.
http://english.aljazeera.net/ NR/ exeres/ 30D3E5CA-44A5-4610-B1D5-7D77D5AC7A16.htm
March 20th, 2006 at 11:13 am#3 – I recently saw a bumper sticker that I think you would appreciate:
I wish people with closed minds came with closed mouths.
March 20th, 2006 at 11:22 amLook, you had to be well connected to skip out on Nam, you only have to be employed to avoid getting killed in this war. Nam was killing middle class boys and Iraq is mostly killing people on the other side of the tracks.
And where are the POWs?
No…I tell you this is much worse than Nam.
March 20th, 2006 at 11:22 amCan we call it a “quagmire” now?
March 20th, 2006 at 11:26 amIf history serves correctly, in 30 years there will be a son of a former president who didn’t serve in Iraq who will run on his military record and there will be an Iraqi war veteran who will be called a coward, traitor and baby-killer by those who at this time in history are saying that any criticism of the military is treason.
What a fucking great nation.
-GSD
March 20th, 2006 at 11:27 amThey went on a rampage in the village after the attack, killing 15 unarmed Iraqis in their homes, including seven women and three children, the magazine said.
FAMILY VALUES IN ACTION.
This nation is spiraling down a sewer-pipe. Devoid or morals, ethics or any human decency.
Heckuva job.
-GSD
March 20th, 2006 at 11:30 am#6 – “{Marines} went on a rampage in the village after the attack, killing 15 unarmed Iraqis in their homes, including seven women and three children, the magazine said.” — You Lie!! What, My Lai?
March 20th, 2006 at 11:30 amWhat a mess. The fact that Bush has any defenders at all is crazy. What’s it going to take?
You can’t run the most powerful nation on the planet with a Bible verse. You need someone who can think.
God help us all.
March 20th, 2006 at 11:33 am#5 – The difference between Rep. Murtha and Pres. Bush?
Congressman Murtha honored his military commitment and spent 37 years in the Marine Corps, earned the Bronze Star, two purple hearts, the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry, and the Navy Distinguished Service Medal. And for the last thirty years he’s been one of the most respected voices in Congress on military issues — universally respected by Democrats, Republicans and military brass alike.
He WAS a respected congressman until he began questioning the leadership and management of the war in Iraq. At that point, suddenly, his military service didn’t count for crap in the halls of the so-called Republican party and the ever faithful neo-con spin machine. At that point, he became someone they MUST stop from questioning the President at all costs.
Shameless Republicans immediately went on the attack. Dick Cheney, who has said that he had “other priorities” and collected 5 deferments while people like Murtha served in Vietnam, called Murtha’s comments “irresponsible” and regretted that “the president and I cannot prevent certain politicians from losing their memory, or their backbone.” The White House spokesman, who has also never worn the uniform, pronounced himself “baffled” that Murtha wanted to “surrender to the terrorists”. A Republican Congressman said Murtha and others “basically are giving aid and comfort to the enemy”.
Basically, Pres. Bush (Jr.) got “daddy†to use his connections in order to make sure he got a slot in the Texas Air National Guard, and he couldn’t even honorably complete his term of service. He “cut & ran†when it came time for him to take a physical to maintain his flight status.
So, when it comes down to choosing between Pres. Bush and Rep. Murtha, there’s no question: Rep. Murtha is the honorable choice.
March 20th, 2006 at 11:35 amGsd, I’ve thought the same thing many times. Some goddamned Iraqi war chickenhawk republican will be trashing an Iraqi war vet sooner than that., thogh. Look out for “Unarmored Humvee Veterans for the Truth” to show up in the midterms.
March 20th, 2006 at 11:37 amThe military folks I know knew this was going to be another Vietnam when they first went over there. I heard the Vietnam analogy back before the war started and continue to hear it.
We muist remember that the Bushistas live in their owh reality, and our reality has nothing to do with it.
March 20th, 2006 at 11:41 am[...] Media observers seem to have resigned themselves to mere observers of the U.S. puppet regime, writing of punditry panache, without daring call for action — seemingly allowing Rumsfeld’s remarks fly over their heads, despite his standing as one of the most powerful people in the world. Hey, the Vietnam-Iraq metaphors are apparently comforting the Army. As a fourth year of occupation begins in Iraq, many are oddly singling out President Bush for his actions — though the fact that he never mentioned [...]
March 20th, 2006 at 11:44 am#13 – You can’t run the most powerful nation on the planet with a Bible verse. You need someone who can think.
God help us all.
Amen.
March 20th, 2006 at 11:51 am#14 says all that needs to be said. C’mon, chickenhawk rightwingers, here’s your chance to redeem yourselves. Either sign up or shut up. Cheerleading this God-forsaken war from the comfy sidelines of your home computer is scumbaggery at its lowest.
March 20th, 2006 at 11:53 amThey should have read: Ithiel de Sola Pool’s “Village violence and pacification in Viet Nam”
But it’s a little late now that they’ve alienated the whole of the Middle East.
March 20th, 2006 at 11:54 amAny idiot, or group of idiots as the case before us shows, who thinks, or thought, that they could impose DEMOCRACY on any part of the middle east are as nutty as fruit cakes.
There is no way you can exchange a 1,000 years of tribal and sectarian thought for DEMOCRACY.
The shrub keeps pointing out the VOTING. What the hell did the VOTING signify, except a VOTE? It meant nothing, it was a tool thrust upon the Iraqis by the military of a superior nation. Nothing more.
Cheney said Sunday on a television program that Hussein was responsible for thousands and thousands of his own peoples death. He has not been charged with that in his trial. So – it must be a lie.
We invade a country, emasculate them, ruin most of their infrastructure and then them “come on folks, you got to get this all fixed up so we can leave here victors”.
What a pile of shit!
March 20th, 2006 at 12:01 pmLooks like we may have to destroy the world to save it.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:01 pmIf the comparison to Vietnam sends the wrong message to our troops, then what does the illegal “Stop Loss” program send to the 50,000+ soldiers that are denied their separation while fighting, and summarily discharged (without benefits) when they are injured in the war?
What does it say, when the WORLD hates your leader. But at least it is not a partisan thing, because he is hated by both enemies and allies! But, what message does it send to the country when you have to repeat the same message month after month with no visible plan of competancy to win a war that you falsely created?
Hmmmm….
It says, BUSH IS AN IDIOT!!!
March 20th, 2006 at 12:14 pm#23 Interesting point. I have been starting to wonder though if maybe the earth has been through this “run” before. Maybe the great dinosaurs were the only ones LEFT after humans may have destroyed the earth once. I don’t know, I try to keep positive even when it looks like total chaos.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:20 pm#8 No…I tell you this is much worse than Nam.
Out of morbid curiosity, how?
March 20th, 2006 at 12:27 pmWe’re over there to Liberate Iraq? I just heard bush actually say that,Damn my head is aspinning with all the buzzwords fpr this Invasion On a Peaceful Country.
I really was under the impression it was about WMD’S and to secure the word from Saddam unleashing Massive WMD’s in New York City ..Then I heard it was to spread Demoracy by every Iraqi voting and Women and Girls would have equal rights …
I really feel like I have been asleep much like Rip Van was… How many different Buzz Words have we heard..
The MSM is so Compliant and The Head Nazi Yesterday is comparing this unjust war to World War 2.. Can’t somebody shut rummy up for once and all?
March 20th, 2006 at 12:32 pm#26
Because of the lack of a draft.
Because no one is speaking out. We have a complacent mamby pamby people that are OK with this war because it does not affect THEM!
Who will be the last to die for a mistake? Who will have the guts to ask the question?
March 20th, 2006 at 12:38 pm#26 I’ll have a go for you:
1. Precipitous decline in support for US in the world across the board
March 20th, 2006 at 12:51 pm2. Economy in 1968 was in much better shape than 2006 – the US is having its last ‘happy hour’ on the economic Titanic today
3. Vietnam destabilised a relatively unimportant part of the world, Iraq has stirred up the most critical part of the world
I wish people with closed minds came with closed mouths.
Comment by Democrat Soldier — March 20, 2006 @ 11:22 am
And no reproductive organs… :)
March 20th, 2006 at 12:53 pmThe preface to Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife: Counterinsurgency Lessons from Malaya and Vietnam by John A. Nagl is available on the University of Chicago Press website: http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/567702.html
March 20th, 2006 at 12:55 pmIt sickens me to hear all this bullshit about Iraq and complain about why we’re still there and how we can get out, when what we OUGHT to be doing is attacking the Bush Admin for getting us into it, and investigating why they were so eager to do so.
9/11 was an inside job, folks. It was state-sponsored terrorism at its worst, and is eerily similar to Germany’s Reichstag Fire in the 1930s, which led to the passage of their Reichstag Fire Degree, a rights-destroying piece of legislation, and then the Enabling Act, which gave Hitler the right to disregard the law and make his own. See any similarities?
9/11 was used to create fear, fear was used to pass the Patriot Act (and soon will be used to pass the Terrorist Surveillance Act), and the non-existent connections between 9/11 and Iraq were used to send us to war against Iraq specifically so we can set up permanent bases from which we can attack Iran. The UAE ports deal would have allowed us access to the Emirates’ ports in return, giving us even more angles from which to attack.
Bush does not want to liberate or promote democracy. He wants to destroy the forces in the world that dislike us abroad, while he destroys our rights at home in the name of fighting terrorists.
The Patriot Act creates secret police and redefines terrorism to include anyone who breaks a U.S. law, and the Surveillance Act will give Bush permission to ignore the laws and disregard Congress, all in the name of fighting Al-Queda, the CIA’s pet project invention.
War is coming with Iran, about far more than oil or make-believe nuclear threats. Detention camps have been built already, and a “nuclear 9/11,” blamed on Iran, is on its way. Dissidents and Muslims will be locked up indefinitely and tortured.
Get your guns. We have a country to take back.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:05 pmAhhhh,
I took the comment at 8 to mean the war itself.
Thanks for clearing that up.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:21 pmWar is coming with Iran, about far more than oil or make-believe nuclear threats. Detention camps have been built already, and a “nuclear 9/11,†blamed on Iran, is on its way. Dissidents and Muslims will be locked up indefinitely and tortured.
Get your guns. We have a country to take back.
Comment by Craig
By all means loser, get your gun. And yes the detention camps for you have been built in W. Texas. What a wonderful country this will be once all the ratbastardcommiefucktards are locked up or hung.
I see my stock in ACME Hemp & RazorWire, LTD going through the roof pretty soon. Life is good.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:22 pm#32–on point. i’ve been saying the same thing: riechstag fire=patriot act. rove=goerbel, hitler=bush. eeeerie similarities.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:23 pm#36—-why are you so mad? can’t you engage in a civil convo without resorting to kindergarten tactics? and if you support your ratbastardcommiefucktard bushco then why are you not in iraq fighting the terrorist? talk about it, be about it. or else that would make you a coward, right? get off the pc while your finger shooting folks and get to your local recruiting station and sign up like a real patriot for the war. or are you to scared to die for your cause? you have alot of anger toward those who have done NOTHING to you or the americans. so why not take your anger to iraq and kill innocent babies, children, and men in the name of oil (bush). under 3,000 died at the wtc and we have killed hundreds of thousands of innocent victims. bush has over 25,000 u.s. casualties. that would make him worse than the terrorists, right?
March 20th, 2006 at 1:33 pmunder 3,000 died at the wtc and we have killed hundreds of thousands of innocent victims. bush has over 25,000 u.s. casualties. that would make him worse than the terrorists, right?
Comment by bs
You are a steaming pile of human feces and a liar.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:41 pmbush has over 25,000 u.s. casualties.
What am I missing?
March 20th, 2006 at 1:42 pm1. Precipitous decline in support for US in the world across the board
2. Economy in 1968 was in much better shape than 2006 – the US is having its last ‘happy hour’ on the economic Titanic today
3. Vietnam destabilised a relatively unimportant part of the world, Iraq has stirred up the most critical part of the world
Comment by TerrytheTurtle
So are you.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:43 pm#37 – You’re forgetting that the conservative-biased media is only counting the deaths of military if they died on the battlefield. If they’re wounded and evaced to a hospital and die on the operating table, they’re not “counted” in the official death tally of our service members.
Official body count of US Military members: 2317 (As of 18 March, 2006)
Of course, the estimated American wounded number is “officially”: 17004
March 20th, 2006 at 1:44 pm#41
I belive yopur facts are incorrect on that one.
As I have read through the names and how they died, It included people who have died of car accidents, strokes and non combat related wounds.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:47 pmiri, why are you so mad? why don’t take that anger over to iraq and defeat the “terrorist”. you are a big supporter of the war right? and there is a calling for jarheads. so stop acting a coward and go defend. or are you to scared to die for your cause? so why dont you answer questions that are being posed for a debate instead of resorting to juvenile tactics.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:48 pm“You are a steaming pile of human feces and a liar. Comment by I-RIGHT-I”
MizzWrong can only see herself as usual. This kind of projection is common amont sufferers of PPD – and MizzWhacko proves it daily.
Hey MizzWrong, how about staying on topic, and reminding us again why you aren’t in Iraq where our country needs you? Clearly you bring no value here.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:49 pm8 No…I tell you this is much worse than Nam.
Out of morbid curiosity, how?
Comment by Tundra — March 20, 2006 @ 12:27 pm
Nam was about fighting the spread of “godless” communism – now it’s our god against theirs. Do you see this as an improvement?
March 20th, 2006 at 1:49 pmthat is casualties: one who is killed or injured in any way.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:50 pmCan we stop arguing about the number of deaths? One dead American for this worthless cause is too many.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:53 pm#44 ryan, and who is mizz wrong?
March 20th, 2006 at 1:54 pmbs,
I-RIGHT-I is our closeted MizzWrong – it’s why he’s so attached to anti-homosexuality rhetoric. (S)he’s one big basket of self hate.
And Jules,
Yes, but have 30,000 casualties (those injured and killed), which is disgusting for a ‘war of choice’ that americans need not have fought.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:58 pm#38 – - Why would bs be a “…steaming pile of human feces and a liar?” I’m just curious. As a stop-lossed soldier spending his second tour in Iraq I believe I deserve an answer. Unless of course you don’t support the troops. I’m in perfect agreement with those who call for the yellow cowards who support this war to join up and fight for the cause.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:59 pmNam was about fighting the spread of “godless†communism – now it’s our god against theirs. Do you see this as an improvement?
Comment by Dano347
I guess that all depends on how your view of religion is.
that is casualties: one who is killed or injured in any way.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:01 pmSo you were comparing Dead at ground zero to Dead AND Wounded in Iraq? Without comparing wounded and injured in any way at ground zero it’s a poor comparison.
#42 – I did some research, and unlike some who post here , I can admit when I’m wrong:
“DOD Instruction 7730.22, (”Reports of U.S. Casualties in Combat Areas,” January 20, 1967, and March 20, 1973) provided that the Vietnam casualties to be reported were all those occurring within the designated combat areas and those deaths occurring anywhere as the result or aftermath of an initial casualty occurring in a combat area.”
The most recent publication by the DoD on casualty listings is: DoD Instruction 1300.18, December 18, 2000
This publication doesn’t use the wording “all those (deaths) occurring within the designated combat areas and those deaths occurring anywhere as the result or aftermath of an initial casualty occurring in a combat area.”
Because of this particular omission, it cannot be proven either way if all deaths are included in the “official” count.
Tundra, could you please include the link that you reference where the cause of death is listed?
March 20th, 2006 at 2:02 pm#49 thanks. it’s hard to follow sometimes when your not a regular.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:06 pm#50-i’m curious to. i think he is just mad. my bro is on his first tour to iraq and hopefully the last. he says if there wasn’t a reason for him to retire at 20 yrs he is now. he only has 3 to go!!
Here Democrat Soldier,
http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/
March 20th, 2006 at 2:08 pm#52 i believe when they came out with the casualty report(injured, killed, captured, or mia) it is referring to iraq in whole. not just designated in an area. but, there is always room for err. i imagine it was a ballpark figure. but i can’t imagine they are to far off.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:14 pmbs,
No problem. And you and LJ should know MizzWrong claims to work for the defense industry in texas, and says that’s why (s)he’s a chickenhawk.
(s)he also has this obsession with ‘communists’, despite the fact that communists never were anything but a miniscule party in the united states. It’s part of the schizophrenia that is the reichwing. It’s ironic because they are legitimate Nazis, claiming normal moderate people are communists. If that isn’t a nutjob, none exists.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:16 pmDemocrat soldier,
The problem is that the republicans have tried to redefine the meaning of ‘casualty’.
casualty: a : a military person lost through death, wounds, injury, sickness, internment, or capture or through being missing in action b : a person or thing injured, lost, or destroyed
The problem is that ‘injuries’ are casualties, and the reichwing nazi propaganda machine ignores this. Typical republican spin versus reality. They are delusional idiots.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:18 pm#56, alright. there is a reason for his ineptness. so instead of calling himself a nazi, he’d rather use the political correct term “republican”.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:26 pmBush is our brand of insurgency.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:46 pmRumsfeld apparently doesn’t read history books, particularly anything related to the Viet Nam war – those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
March 20th, 2006 at 3:05 pmMarie,
Rumsfeld and the rest of chickenhawks had their heads burried in the sand in Vietnam while they were dodging the war (much like Mighty Moron and Mizz Wrong). Yet in their ‘frist’ style of diagnosis, they believe they know everything about the war, and that the press and history lied.
If you have no personal experience, and can’t rely on the expertise of those who were there and experience it first hand, then no wonder your view is as retarded as Rumsfeld, Cheney and the rest of the Chickenhawk idiots. You first must acknowledge history, understand what it means, and what the failures were before you can ever avoid them. And this crew isn’t exactly ‘intellectual’, which is what that takes.
In otherwords, stupid people repeat history the most often – it’s kind of the occam’s razor of learning from your mistakes. And republicans tend to repeat the same mistakes over, and over, and over again.
March 20th, 2006 at 3:21 pmTundra compare year three of vietnam which is 1964 with year three of Iraq and tell me which was worse,,,,,,,( That is if you are not counting the fact that tha CIA had been in vietnam since the peace accords of 1954)
March 20th, 2006 at 3:28 pm#63 it’s clear to me as an outsider (or a steaming pile of human feces depending on your politics), that the US is still fighting the Vietnam War. Half the country thought they never should have gone and sacrificed drafted young men and women for a war with no clear aims and one which dragged the US name as a champion of the underrepresented through the mud. The other half thought that the first half betrayed the country and that not enough nuclear weapons were dropped in the war. For the next 35 years, both sides have continued the battle over the Vietnam legacy. John Kerry ran as a Vietnam Vet in the first half and he was smeared with venom from people in the second half for simply being a member of the first half.
March 20th, 2006 at 3:45 pmTundra I left out the fact that the American military were giving logistical aid to the french when they were losing in vietnam in the early 50’s and that there was no civil war in vietnam until we forced the partician of the country in 1954. The elections to reunify the country were blocked by the US and the south vietnamese because both parties knew they were going to lose to Ho Chi Minh at the ballot box in an open and free election. And the person we chose Diem we had assinated in 1963 which lead to the explosion of the insurgency in the south against Deims successors. So the vietnam war has some parallels but not in the way you pose….
After France’s attempted recolonization of Indochina was defeated in 1954 by the Viet Minh at the battle of Äiện Biên Phủ, an agreement to temporarily partition the country in two with a de-militarized zone (DMZ) was reached at the Geneva Conference (1954). The Vietnam War ostensibly began as a civil war between feuding governments. Being Western-oriented and perceived as less popular than Hồ Chà Minh’s northern government, the South Vietnam government fought largely to maintain its governing status within the partitioned entity, rather than to “unify the country” as was the goal of the North. Fighting began in 1957 and with U.S. and Soviet-Chinese involvement would steadily escalate and spill over into the neighboring Indochinese countries of Cambodia and Laos.
The Geneva partition was not a natural division of Vietnam and was not intended to create two separate countries. But the South government, with the support of the United States, blocked the Geneva scheduled elections for reunification. In the context of the Cold War, and with the recent Korean War as a precedent, the U.S. had feared that a reunified Vietnam would elect a Communist government under the popular Hồ Chà Minh, either freely or fraudulently.
South Vietnam and its Western allies portrayed the conflict as based in a principled opposition to communism —to deter the expansion of Soviet-based control throughout Southeast Asia, and to set the tone for any likely future superpower conflicts. The North Vietnamese government and its Southern dissident allies (NLF) viewed the war as a struggle to reunite the country and to repel a foreign aggressor —a virtual continuation of the earlier war for independence against the French.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War
March 20th, 2006 at 3:49 pmI think a year-by-year comparison is a little skewed. The third year of Vietnam only had 23,300 pairs of boots on the ground. The troop levels in year 4 are where we start to see the troop levels soar.
http://members.aol.com/warlibrary/vwatl.htm (not an official source, but I could hunt one down if needed)
BTW, I’m not debating the merits of the Iraq war or anything else with this, I just don’t think using Vietnam as a compare tool makes sense. They were wars that were started completely different and fought completely different.
March 20th, 2006 at 4:03 pmBTW Tundra I would suggest areading about the vietnam war if you have the time it is called The Pentagon Papers, but be prepared to spend some time sinceit is a 47 volume, 7,000-page, top-secret United States Department of Defense history of the United States’ political and military involvement in the Vietnam War from 1945 to 1971, with a focus on the internal planning and policy decisions within the U.S. Government. The study was commissioned in 1967 by Robert McNamara, the then-Secretary of Defense. The Papers included 4,000 pages of actual documents from the 1945-1967 period, and 3,000 pages of analysis.
And Nixon fought to keep them secret because The Papers revealed, among other things, that the government had deliberately expanded its role in the war by conducting air strikes over Laos, raids along the coast of North Vietnam, and offensive actions taken by U.S. Marines well before the American public was told that such actions were necessary. All of this had happened even though president Lyndon Johnson was promising not to expand the war. The document increased the credibility gap for the U.S. government, and was seen as hurting the efforts by the Nixon administration to fight the war.
Sound familiar?
To bad the media today is not as concerned with the truth.
March 20th, 2006 at 4:05 pmIn the UK we have just watched despatches an hour long program looking into Iraqs 23 Bn dollars missing , we just had to watch babies dying in hospitals cause you guys stole their money and reported it was going into hospitals , water , sewage, and of course haliburton
we just watched , kids dying from malaria from mosquitos breeding in sewage work spills , kids dying from diarrhea from unclean water, we just watched kids dying from no vitamin K at births, theres nothing in any of their hospitals ventilators 10 years old from the good old days of Saddam Hussein
what American has done to Iraq will never ever be forgotten by everybody in Europe and the world from the age of 16 till they die
We will never forgive you ..mass murdering thiefs
I have not bought an American product for three years now or will I ever buy one, I even use UK Wheat in bread as to not buy American super wheat , I can tell you now I WILL NEVER EVER BUY ANYTHING AMERICAN FIOR THE REST OF MY LIFE
March 20th, 2006 at 4:11 pmIf Rumsfeld and his supporters want to compare Nazi Germany with modern day Iraq, then that would make Saddam Hussein Adolph Hitler, right?
Here’s Rumsfeld shaking hands with Adolph Hitler. ;)
March 20th, 2006 at 4:16 pm#67 and this is one of the US allies talking.
March 20th, 2006 at 4:19 pmAnd it makes Rummy, ooh, say Prescott Bush?
March 20th, 2006 at 4:20 pm#67
The site you are helping make money by visiting is in the U.S
Registrant:
American Majority Fund
805 15th St. NW
Suite 400
Washington, DC 20005
US
IP Location: US(UNITED STATES)-OREGON-SIXES
March 20th, 2006 at 4:27 pmTundra they are not being fought different if you take the attack the enemy in a place and move back to your base. This tactic was used in vietnam where the military would move in and”clear” an area. They would move to the next area to clear in the next operation thus leaving the enemy open access to the previously cl;eared location. They also face the same how do we tell the good from the bad guys senerio. Also they face a determined enemy who is committed to the long hard fight and can not win enought battles individually to win the war. Elections mean very little because no election in south vietnam changed the direction of the enemieds tactics which our militaryt never sucessfully addressed. We could beat them face to face almost any where but never could be everywhere so they moved through us and usually pigked their fights. Also the disengenous reports by those in power to the Americans are very similar. Right before TET the american military were reporting the veit gong were in their “last throes” to borrow dead eye dicks phrase. But the TETR offensive cost the Johnson Administration any credibility they had with the majority of the press, and the americans followed soon after.
Mission Acomplished….Dead enders…Insurgency in their last throes… no civil war…. are wearing thin now too so there are many comparisons that have merit.
March 20th, 2006 at 4:27 pmIn the UK we have just watched despatches an hour long program looking into Iraqs 23 Bn dollars missing , we just had to watch babies dying in hospitals cause you guys stole their money and reported it was going into hospitals , water , sewage, and of course haliburton
we just watched , kids dying from malaria from mosquitos breeding in sewage work spills , kids dying from diarrhea from unclean water, we just watched kids dying from no vitamin K at births, theres nothing in any of their hospitals ventilators 10 years old from the good old days of Saddam Hussein
what American has done to Iraq will never ever be forgotten by everybody in Europe and the world from the age of 16 till they die
We will never forgive you ..mass murdering thiefs
Comment by We Say Tomato
Everything you saw was a lie put together by the communists that have turned your country into a third world socialist shit hole. I supposed you’re stupid enough to believe it.
It matters not one whit what third rate minds on the other side of the pond think of us as your betters know the real story. As far as buying American goods…you buy them every day and don’t know it. We own your worthless ass. Never forget it.
March 20th, 2006 at 4:41 pmHold on a second Adolf, I need to put my Strauss on. Right off you go again, say that again while I singalong to ‘Vaterland, Vaterland..’
March 20th, 2006 at 4:56 pmIt matters not one whit what third rate minds on the other side of the pond think of us as your betters know the real story. As far as buying American goods…you buy them every day and don’t know it. We own your worthless ass. Never forget it.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 20, 2006 @ 4:41 pm
IRI are you actually a chinese agent? Your statement about buying goods works so much better if it was a chinese agent to an angry american……….
March 20th, 2006 at 4:58 pmBTW, I’m not debating the merits of the Iraq war or anything else with this, I just don’t think using Vietnam as a compare tool makes sense. They were wars that were started completely different and fought completely different.
Comment by Tundra
The only similarity is that the very same ratbastard communists that aided and abetted the communists are aiding the terrorists, those would be Russia, Red China, Left Wing American Joooz, shit for brains students and International Progressives.
People like John Kerry and Jane Fonda should have been hung as traitors for what they did during Vietnam. My hope is that this country gets hit hard in some place like Berkeley and we use it as an excuse to declare Martial law.
I would dearly love to see the likes of Boxer, Pelosi, Kennedy, Kerry, Gore and Murtha hung for traitors by the US military. It would be a great moment in American history. If that doesn’t happen and this country has to put up with these evil bastards in our government for another ten years we are doomed as a country. DOOMED I SAY!!!
March 20th, 2006 at 5:00 pmCome on Adolf, I know you know this one:
“Die Fahne hoch die Reihen fest geschlossen
March 20th, 2006 at 5:01 pmS. A. marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt…”
I-RIGHT-I
the minute you see this guys posts dont even bother reading them
he still suffers from attention seeking disorder
March 20th, 2006 at 5:01 pmIRI, you silly little man.
March 20th, 2006 at 5:02 pm#78 I know, the most ridiculous crap I’ve ever read. He does make us all look quite good though. I’m most appreciative to keep the racism and hatred on his side. He proves our point hourly.
March 20th, 2006 at 5:03 pmRight before TET the american military were reporting the veit gong were in their “last throes†to borrow dead eye dicks phrase. But the TETR offensive cost the Johnson Administration any credibility they had with the majority of the press, and the americans followed soon after.
Comment by Clif
The Tet Offensive was a disasterous defeat for the Viet Cong. The Left Wing media whores turned it into a victory. We were beaten by the traitors in our own country.
March 20th, 2006 at 5:03 pm#78 Me, I hope they catch him before he hurts someone.
March 20th, 2006 at 5:05 pmI-RIGHT-I is nothing but a camp turd burgling chutney ferret – I think you call them gays in the USA
March 20th, 2006 at 5:09 pmWe lost in Viet Nam as well. So I guess you can see how well this is going if they welcome the analogy. I guess we’ll have it right for the pre-emptive strike on Iran though. Does the military ever apply any intellect to their profession or just make it up as they go along?
March 20th, 2006 at 5:11 pm#81 Militarily the viet cong lost the TET offensive but it was their greatest stragitic victory until 1975.
March 20th, 2006 at 5:12 pmThe actual war to look at for a historical perspective is the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and the Muslim Arab response to it. That is what they are using for a guide to defeat us and it seems that they are not doing bad if you compare year three in Afghanistan with year three in Iraq from a Muslim Arab stand point
March 20th, 2006 at 5:16 pmIraq-Vietnam Similarities…
Yeah, it’s about time the gang in D.C. stopped trying to say there is NO comparison. Especially when the military men running the show are looking at the history books….
March 20th, 2006 at 5:36 pmMizzWrong reminds us that according to the latest research Conservatives were whiney and insecure as children – and (s)he apparently hasn’t grown out of any of those traits.
You know MizzWrong, just because you repeat a lie, without any evidence, fact or substantiating information – it doesn’t make what you say true, but it does confirm to everyone that you’re a complete and utter moron. Not that anyone needs that to be confirmed.
Vietnam was a mess, because we never should have been there. It was a war of independence from colonial oppression, and we interfered with it.
“People like John Kerry and Jane Fonda should have been hung as traitors for what they did during Vietnam. My hope is that this country gets hit hard in some place like Berkeley and we use it as an excuse to declare Martial law. MizzWrong”
It’s ironic you call others traitors, while advocating a terrorist attack on our own soil. Not only is that schizophrenic – but Judd, shouldn’t you be reporting MizzWrong for making a terrorist threat? After all, MizzWrong said he WANTED A TERRORIST STRIKE ON BERKELEY – that sounds like the act of a terrorist to me. Most of us ’sane’ people don’t want terrorist strikes against anywhere, not even redneckalia where you live. See only the terrorists and traitors like you hope for such an evil and vile thing. No wonder you and your fellow republican traitors sold WMDs to Iraq, sold plutonium reactors to Iran, and trained and funded Al Queda. You are the terrorists, just as you’ve proven.
March 20th, 2006 at 5:39 pmRyan, you missed the death threats against US elected representatives.
March 20th, 2006 at 5:50 pmYoull know it’s similar when they start pulling out their newest weapon, IPS. That stands for improvised punjii sticks.
March 20th, 2006 at 6:54 pmIRI What the fuck would YOU know about Tet? Were YOU there? Join the army shithead. Put up or shut up.
March 20th, 2006 at 7:09 pmTo “stay the course” in Iraq is to pursue the SAME willful blindness that “seeing the light at the end of the tunnel” in Vietnam. I should know, I’ve seen before 40 years ago. The ONLY sane course is to get out of Iraq, it’s a REAL LOSER
March 20th, 2006 at 7:15 pm#61 RN
March 20th, 2006 at 7:30 pmNot having had experience in being in the military, that these guys thought they had all the answers is astonishingly arrogant. To ignore the career men who have been through the training, taught the training, lived the experience, and know what it is like first hand is insulting at best. But that’s what Bush&Co do best isn’t it – insult, demean, slander, and after all that, lie.
when I got on KABC radio in l.a. with John Gibson…yes, that john gibson…over a year ago i argued that as a viet vet there were more similarities than contradictions to iraq he ridiculed the notion and actually got his father a viet vet usmc officer to refute me. Me? an enlisted man? i was honored to be shut down so hard even as gibson ranted the now familiar “cut and run” mantra!
March 20th, 2006 at 9:36 pmwell when guys like general mccaffery on hard ball tonite said it, then kiss my ass! mr gibson.
yer a bunch of hacks i say runnin cover for a failed policy that any one who ever set foot in viet nam could recite chapter and verse. but hey we were stupid then, guys like gibson and company are still stupid.
none so blind as those who will not see, none so deaf as those who will not hear.
didnt see it comin, didnt hear the clarions call…
March 21st, 2006 at 5:31 am
March 21st, 2006 at 5:56 amDown with Rummy…
I’ll say it again, Rumsfeld must go!
March 21st, 2006 at 6:08 pmSecretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld is a serious hindrance to American homeland security and the proliferation of freedom worldwide. In light of his anti-Semitic, anti-American remarks in the Sunday Washin…
The preface to Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife:
April 5th, 2006 at 12:24 pmCounterinsurgency Lessons from Malaya and Vietnam by John A. Nagl is available on the University of Chicago Press website: http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/567702.html
What a bunch of whiney liberal misfits, you all live in the greatest country in the world and all you care to do is bash your government. If you’re not part of the solution you’re part of the problem.
April 19th, 2006 at 12:19 pm[...] US army (and, later, Bush, himself): there is a Vietnam-Iraq parallel. [...]
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