$226 billion and counting:
The cost of the Iraq war, according to a new analysis by the Center for Strategic & Budgetary Assessments.
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Should be paying for it’sself with that Iraqi oil any day now…any day now…
March 23rd, 2006 at 2:38 pmI thought the Iraq OIl was suppose to pay for this war?
March 23rd, 2006 at 2:40 pmIt is said that between 500,000 and 1,000,000 children would have died in Iraq as a result of starvation brought on by Sadaam spending the money he recieved in the food for oil program. I think this is money well spent.
March 23rd, 2006 at 2:42 pmThe good news is Bush finally put it in the 2007 budget.
Cause up to now, the Iraq war has been paid for my magic money fairies from the mythical world of La-La Land.
March 23rd, 2006 at 2:42 pmAmericans spend 30B on pet toys annually
March 23rd, 2006 at 2:44 pmtroll, apples and oranges, so to speak. “But what about” isn’t an argument. And when you say “it is said” clearly shows us that you are the one who said it. Next…
March 23rd, 2006 at 2:46 pmI’m sorry future grandchildren…great-grandchildren…great-great grandchildren…
March 23rd, 2006 at 2:47 pmI’m sorry future grandchildren…great-grandchildren…great-great grandchildren…
Comment by Zookeeper
At this rate, they’ll be living in The Pepsi-Co United States of America sponsered by Krispy Kreme (brought to you live from China).
It’s the only way we’ll be able to pay off the debt.
March 23rd, 2006 at 2:54 pmSomebody…quick…divide 226 billion by 40K (a decent salary for a schoolteacher). Thats how many instructors we could have added to our failing education system….
March 23rd, 2006 at 3:00 pm$226 billion and counting
Anyone estimating what the entire cost will be? How about some of those rich Saudi’s helping out… since we are doing this for them, in the Middle East (grow Democracy), right.
What is the deficit now? And they just raised the ceiling AGAIN. How many times since 2000?
And I suspect it is much worse, because of the Enronesque accounting techniques used.
Beside the Iraq war (which Bush said he’d leave the exit strategy to the next President), is this another task Bush is going to leave for the next administration?
March 23rd, 2006 at 3:10 pmwill only please Osama bin Laden if he were alive
March 23rd, 2006 at 3:14 pmThe cost to us here in the UK is only around $6,000,000,000. Thanks America.
March 23rd, 2006 at 3:18 pm#9
5,650,00 teachers
or
113,000/state
March 23rd, 2006 at 3:20 pm$226 billion and counting:
dont forget some estimate were in the trillion for the war as these figures exclude medicare costs for the wounded for the rest of their lifes, hence Insurgents are crippling 11.3 troops per day whci has risen dramatically over the last months although deaths were down to 1.3 per day
March 23rd, 2006 at 3:27 pm3- It is said, if my aunt had a package, she’d be my uncle.
March 23rd, 2006 at 3:40 pmThe real cost of this war will be seen on the backstreets of America for the next 50 years.
March 23rd, 2006 at 3:40 pm#15 that’s freakin funny, I don’t care who you are!
March 23rd, 2006 at 3:46 pmHere’s something ThinkProgress should write about.
JABBS has a post about a U.S. soldier blogging from Iraq and complaining that he’s being “fed nothing but propaganda.”
Sound familiar?
March 23rd, 2006 at 4:01 pmA quarter of a trillion dollars. Wated. We could rebuild New Orleans with Category 5 tolerant levees several times over with that much money.
The GOP would rather spend this money on foreigners.
March 23rd, 2006 at 4:04 pm#15 HAHAHAHA I love that, thanks. Where did troll go?
March 23rd, 2006 at 4:05 pmAnd for republicans, that would have meant how many votes?
March 23rd, 2006 at 4:05 pm#14–and what’s even sadder, is that it’s cheaper to have dead GIs than wounded ones. So, while less are dying but more are injured, the cost goes up even more.
Or course, the VA is underfunded, so I guess those GIs are SOL…
March 23rd, 2006 at 4:28 pmThat’s a lot a money to be thrown at a situation, only to have it lead to civil war.
Heck of a job, Bushy!
ITMFA now!
March 23rd, 2006 at 4:30 pmI have not found the projected figures yet but here is some evidence of past mortality rates from the UN http://www.unicef.org/newsline/99pr29.htm
“Ms. Bellamy noted that if the substantial reduction in child mortality throughout Iraq during the 1980s had continued through the 1990s, there would have been half a million fewer deaths of children under-five in the country as a whole during the eight year period 1991 to 1998″
March 23rd, 2006 at 4:32 pmSadaam was starving his domestic political enemies and their babies to death using the money he recieved in the oil for food program to enrich his buddies and build his military and you libs think we should not havd gone to war bdcause of the cost then you make a joke of it and play political games. You are heartless and self-centered.
March 23rd, 2006 at 4:48 pmHey where did progressive and proud go?
March 23rd, 2006 at 4:57 pmSo #24 are you saying that If America had not economically blokaded Iraq those children would be alive now? Heck that’s 500,000 more of them for IRI to hate.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:01 pmSo #24 are you saying that If America had not economically blokaded Iraq those children would be alive now? Heck that’s 500,000 more of them for IRI to hate.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:01 pmI have not found the projected figures yet but here is some evidence of past mortality rates from the UN
Comment by troll — March 23, 2006 @ 4:32 pm
Those figures are for the period post-economic sanctions imposed by the UN. You also conveniently forgot the following quote (which in the original is right after the excerpt you posted):
“Even if not all suffering in Iraq can be imputed to external factors, especially sanctions, the Iraqi people would not be undergoing such deprivations in the absence of the prolonged measures imposed by the Security Council and the effects of war.”
War has a devastating effect on child mortality. It cannot be a good thing for Iraq’s children to live in an occupied country.
we should not havd gone to war bdcause of the cost then you make a joke of it and play political games. You are heartless and self-centered.
Comment by troll — March 23, 2006 @ 4:48 pm
I see -war is a good thing and Iraqis should be thankful. Let’s take a look at the current humanitarian situation in Iraq, since you claim to be so concerned about it:
Christian Aid’s Mr Birch told Radio 4’s Today programme that conditions in the country did not appear to be improving.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:11 pm“Quality of life indicators in most sectors are no higher than, or even below, the sanctions period just before the coalition invaded in 2003,” he said.
Iraq reconstruction ‘has stalled’
I am saying that Clinton and the “peaceniks” have been had by a brutal dictator and they still are to blind to see how stupid they are even though millions died as a result of their action. Now they play into the hands of the islamofascist with their rhetoric for the sake of political gain and it is sickening and may they fry in hell for it. Cause they are causing more death still.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:17 pmtroll,
Then when are we sending troops to Darfur? Or does your ‘compassion’ on lend itself to oil rich nations that Israel hates?
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:36 pmWe had an open door with Iraq which was the terms of surrender from the 1st war. I think we should as compassionate people intervene but could you imagine the political fallout from that. The only reason I would vote for a Democrat is because its been demonstrated that a demodrat can say or do just about anything they want and get away wirh it. Most moderate Dems are only a step away from the neo-cons in their interventionist philosophy that is when a Dem is in the white house.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:47 pmWith the soviets gone we have a chance and I would argue a moral obligation to spread liberty and prosperity around the globe before China goes hogwild which is probably coming. We have to keep islamofacism in check, we empowered it and it is our responcibility to kill the beast. For too long we backed fascism in the war against communism now we have a chance to fix the mess we made and make thee world a better place. And I am sorry to say they will not role over and play dead and sanctions as we have seen make us out to be the bad guy and cause untold suffering.
I can hear the name calling now. But you all know as well as I if we dont deal with the problems now it will be worse latter.
March 23rd, 2006 at 6:04 pmWhere’s wolfowitz, the guy who said the Iraqi oil will finance this war?
March 23rd, 2006 at 6:16 pmThink of what could have been done domestically with $226 billion. While that is a simplistic comparison, it nonetheless illustrates what we have poured down the drain in Iraq that could have been spent on things worthwhile here.
You libs say crap like this as if the 500000 Iraqi children we saved are just a waste then have the nerve to call conservatives rascist unbelievable!
March 23rd, 2006 at 6:40 pmtroll,
Those children died because of the sanctions BushI put in place. America didn’t ’save’ those children, america killed them - just as we’re doing now.
But you CONs prefer to lie about the past, and your fateful part in screwing it up, on your way to screwing up the future.
You’re a FOOL - and aptly named.
And while you’re spreading ‘liberty’, you might remind arkansas that teaching ‘evolution’ in schools is part of ‘liberty’. HYPOCRITE!
March 23rd, 2006 at 7:12 pmYou libs say crap like this as if the 500000 Iraqi children we saved are just a waste then have the nerve to call conservatives rascist unbelievable!
Comment by troll — March 23, 2006 @ 6:40 pm
In case you missed it:
“Quality of life indicators in most sectors are no higher than, or even below, the sanctions period just before the coalition invaded in 2003″
Iraq reconstruction ‘has stalled’
“The report does not compare conditions now to living conditions in Iraq under Saddam Hussein. But it does show that some basic services — electricity, water, education — have worsened since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003, said Alia al-Dalli, an official in the UNDP Iraq office.”
Quality of life for many Iraqis still poor, U.N. says
“Quality of life has worsened” -the invasion has brought even more misery to those poor Iraqis thank you care to admit. Life under Hussein was tough, and it seems to be getting worse under US occupation.
March 23rd, 2006 at 7:14 pmGregor
The stalling of progress does not suprise me in light of the ongoing insurgency but millions of children ar not dying.
Ryan
Thise sanctions where the work of Clinton read the report its regarding the time period from 1991-1998 Bush was elected in 2000
MORON
March 23rd, 2006 at 7:21 pmOk I see Bush 1 noe but regardless the time period covers Clintons Presidency.
MORON
March 23rd, 2006 at 7:26 pmDid you hear Hitlary preachin today? She is another religious freak.
March 23rd, 2006 at 7:40 pmThe stalling of progress does not suprise me in light of the ongoing insurgency but millions of children ar not dying.
Comment by troll — March 23, 2006 @ 7:21 pm
First, the article notes that there is no improvement in the living conditions in post-invasion Iraq. Second, millions of children will die in th ecoming years if US forces keep bombing Iraqi urban centers indiscriminately.
The US occupation has improved the lifes of ordinary Iraqis.
March 23rd, 2006 at 7:40 pmOops!
The last line in my previous post should read:
“The US occupation has not improved the lifes of ordinary Iraqis.”
March 23rd, 2006 at 7:41 pmThe UN report I posted mentioned that those numbers represented only children under 5 so it did not include children from 5-12.
Gregor
March 23rd, 2006 at 7:46 pmThose links you posted show a mixed bag not a dire situation such as existed under Sadaam. One even mentions improvement.
“International Development Secretary Hilary Benn stressed that there had been progress, but it would take time. ”
“However, Mr Benn - who is in Baghdad to open a Department for International Development (DFID) funded centre to train water engineers, and hold talks with Iraq’s foreign minister - said there had been progress.”
“Iraq now has a stable currency, it’s reduced its debt, schools and hospitals are functioning and more people have clean water and access to sanitation than was the case, certainly in the 1990s when the system collapsed completely.”
“He said vaccination programmes had lead to the decline of measles, mumps, polio and rubella in the country. ”
I give you the UNICEF report and you give me CNN and USA today. Need something more credible.
March 23rd, 2006 at 7:58 pmThose links you posted show a mixed bag not a dire situation such as existed under Sadaam. One even mentions improvement.
Comment by troll — March 23, 2006 @ 7:46 pm
Now you are grasping at straws. Of course there has been some improvement. as the article says, specially since “the 1990s when the system collapsed completely.”
“The system collapsed completely”. It collapsed due to 10+ years of continuous economic sanctions.
Tell me if you think these conditions are acceptable:
85% of households have unreliable electricity.
80% of families in rural areas use unsafe drinking water.
37% of households are connected to sewage networks.
Almost a quarter of children from 6 months to 5 years suffer from chronic malnutrition.
These conditions can only improve -that’s the improvement you are congratulating yourself on.
You know you are grasping at straws when you have to lower your own expectations in order to tout “improvement”.
March 23rd, 2006 at 8:01 pmAnd worse you interprited it like a “journalist ” with the MSM
March 23rd, 2006 at 8:03 pmAlso, almost 25% of the children of Iraq under five suffer from chronic malnutrition.
Plus “(…) the war has claimed the lives of about 24,000 Iraqi civilians and Iraqi military personnel. Children younger than 18 accounted for 12% of the deaths, it said.”
And this is not dire?
March 23rd, 2006 at 8:04 pmShow me the quote where a half a million and more children are starving to death. No I am glad I dont live in Iraq but Id rather be there today than in 1998 lack of running water is temporary dearh is permanant.
March 23rd, 2006 at 8:08 pmBig difference between 500000 and 2800
March 23rd, 2006 at 8:10 pm“It collapsed due to 10+ years of continuous economic sanctions. ”
March 23rd, 2006 at 8:13 pmIt collapsed because the money he was supposed to use to feed the children went to his war machine and his cronies.
And dont ou think the American people would pay for and the American military would build the infrastructure if the insurgancy did not prevent it?
March 23rd, 2006 at 8:15 pmTroll,
First, I did not link to CNN but to the BBC. The BBC article quotes Oliver Birch, who is Christian Aid’s manager for the Iraq programme.
Second, USAToday quotes Staffan de Mistura, who is the UN representative for the Development Program (UNDP) in Iraq. The figures I quoted come from the “Iraq Living Conditions Survey 2004″ -funded by the UN.
So, according to you neither Christian Aid nor the UN have any credibility.
As for the UNICEF, here is what their website says about Iraq:
March 23rd, 2006 at 8:20 pm“UNICEF is currently addressing the risks posed to children by unexploded ordnance (UXO), land mines and other live ammunition littering the country. In Baghdad alone, there are an estimated 800 hazardous sites, the majority related to cluster bombs and caches of dumped ammunition. Children are injured or killed on a daily basis when touching or playing with UXOs. ”
UNICEF - At a glance: Iraq
Big difference between 500000 and 2800
Comment by troll — March 23, 2006 @ 8:10 pm
That figure you keep bringing up was over a multi-year period, not just one.
At the present killing rate, the US will very soon match Hussein.
March 23rd, 2006 at 8:23 pmTwo words for the concernTROLL:
“Depleted Uranium”
What’s past is past, it can’t be changed and it’s fucking irrelevant to the current situation no matter who you want to blame. On the other hand, the Bush administration is poisoning an entire country right now.
Assclown.
March 23rd, 2006 at 8:27 pm“Ryan
Thise sanctions where the work of Clinton read the report its regarding the time period from 1991-1998 Bush was elected in 2000
MORON
Comment by troll ”
Bush was president during 1991 - DUH - and as I already stated was RESPONSIBLE for these sanctions. Clinton in fact reduced the deaths with the food for oil modifications that saved many lives.
Republicans created the problem, you lie to ignore your past, you’re the MORON, and propagandist idiot.
March 23rd, 2006 at 8:27 pmAnd dont ou think the American people would pay for and the American military would build the infrastructure if the insurgancy did not prevent it?
Comment by troll — March 23, 2006 @ 8:15 pm
What I think what the American people would or would not pay for is not relevant. What is relevant is that the Bush administration was planning on funding the entire reconstruction effort with monies coming from the sales of Iraq’s oil.
Speaking of corruption, war machine, and cronies:
On the third anniversary of the occupation, locals say very little has been done to repair essential infrastructure, such as water and power facilities. Some add that the situation is worse than during the regime of ousted president Saddam Hussein, a view echoed in a February report by the US-appointed special inspector-general for Iraq, Stuart Bowen.
IRAQ: Insecurity, corruption hamper reconstruction effort
In a report that paints a grim picture of the “violence, corruption and mismanagement” that has beset the reconstruction effort in Iraq, The Wall Street Journal reports Stuart Bowen, the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction, says that “the ambitious US reconstruction effort in Iraq is likely to fall far short of its goals because soaring security costs and poor management have slashed the amount of American money available for rebuilding projects.”
US inspector general for Iraq paints ‘grim’ picture of reconstruction effort
You can follow the links unless, of course, you think Reuters and the Christian Science Monitor are biased…
March 23rd, 2006 at 8:30 pmAs for the insurgency, they are mostly Iraiq nationals bent on expelling foreign troops out of their country (wouldn’t you do the same?):
Foreign fighters are a small component of the insurgency and comprise a very small percentage of all detainees. Syrian, Saudi, Egyptian, Jordanian and Iranian nationals make up the majority of foreign fighters. Fighters, arms and other supplies continue to enter Iraq from virtually all of its neighbors despite increased border security.
Global Security: Iraqi Insurgency Groups
Mr Cordesman, a veteran analyst, used Saudi and other regional security studies to collate data on insurgents.
The [3000] figure is three times as large as unofficial Pentagon estimates, but may total no more than 10% of insurgents.
The Iraqi insurgency remains largely home-grown, Mr Cordesman added, with 90% or more hailing from Iraq.
New study details Iraq insurgency
(As an aside: Is Global Security not credible either?)
March 23rd, 2006 at 8:42 pmGregor “…the Bush administration was planning on funding the entire reconstruction effort with monies coming from the sales of Iraq’s oil. ” You know what they say about the best laid plans. We have forgiven more debt than this. The pipelines where constantly blown up and I believe the oil is back in the hands of Iraq.
“Bush was president during 1991 - DUH” Ryan I already acknowleged this DUH
MORON
VM
What are you a troll trying to change the subject PDFTT
Gregor
“That figure you keep bringing up was over a multi-year period, not just one.”
ok so 500000 divided by 7 = 71428 its still a hell of a lot more than 2400
But you are right on the BBC CNN thing mea culpa.
March 23rd, 2006 at 9:09 pmThe Christian aid story did not lean your way though.
The new UNICEF article you cited is almost three years old and measures problems associated with sadaams regime more than occupation. Again the problems with reconstruction efforts are expected given the situation. In time this will change. Good links non the less.
“At the present killing rate, the US will very soon match Hussein” thats propaganda we are not intentionally targeting inocent men, women and children.
““Bush was president during 1991 - DUH†Ryan I already acknowleged this DUH
MORON”
Yet you said the opposite in your post to me - I was correcting your misinformation claims (lies) to me.
It was Bush that setup the 500k deaths, clinton worked to reduce that, but it was the republicans who setup the oppressive conditions that led to this starvation.
So once again, the very basis of your claims are retarded - much as you are.
March 23rd, 2006 at 9:31 pm““At the present killing rate, the US will very soon match Hussein†thats propaganda we are not intentionally targeting inocent men, women and children. Comment by troll ”
And who’s guilty of ‘propaganda’? Are you saying saddam was intentionally targeting children? Huh? The point is the DEATH RATE, not the INTENTION you retarded ape.
Do you have ZERO reading comprehension - or do you just ignore information that proves you’re a stupid FOOL!
March 23rd, 2006 at 9:33 pmIntentionally using money that is intended to feed children to feed your friends is pretty deliberate. Americas accidently causing casualties being linked to sadaams murderous reign is propaganda.
Ryan your head is so far up your back end you literally have shit for brains go back to the porn sites. I am not even going to Deal with you any more you weasel. Bye
March 23rd, 2006 at 9:45 pmIntentionally pressuring a country so that people starve and there’s a revolution is deliberate - and this was the clear intention of bush.
And that smell isn’t from my back end moron, it’s your own scent.
Saddam was a tyrant, but in the world of tyrants (and there are many) he was mostly a petty one.
A death is a death and the deaths in Iraq now are on OUR hands, not Saddam. And your ‘dishonest’ intent to remove that responsibility is exactly the sort Goebbels Reichwing Fascist Nazi propaganda move I expect from a retard like you. So you don’t believe that america ever makes a mistake? You don’t think america ever kills when it shouldn’t? You don’t think american soldiers ever murder but aren’t held accountable? You live in a fantasy land, just like those that rationalized the murder in the name of Nazism.
I agree that most american troops don’t intend to ‘murder’ innocent people, yet because of american (mis) management of the country it happens - and it is our responsibility - PERIOD.
Grow up freeptard moron and accept some responsibility for once in your life instead of blaming saddam or the terrorist for things WE screw up. They’re bad folks, but we screw up and do bad things to. The ‘road to hell’ is paved with good intentions like yours - so pull your head out of the stink and look at the road your on for a change you simpleton.
March 23rd, 2006 at 11:27 pmYou know what they say about the best laid plans. We have forgiven more debt than this. The pipelines where constantly blown up and I believe the oil is back in the hands of Iraq.
Comment by troll — March 23, 2006 @ 9:09 pm
“Best laid plans”? You must be joking. Have you forgotten “we will be welcomed like liberators”? How about the “it will be a cakewalk”? How do those statements match up to reality? Do they sound like part of a well conceived plan to you?
The oil might be nominally back in the hands of the Iraqis, but the damage is done: The money from the Iraq Reconstruction Fund has been squandered by the occupation forces. I have lost count of how many billions of dollars have gone missing:
Iraq’s oil resources generate billions of dollars — money the United States promised to protect after overthrowing Saddam Hussein.
Now, Frank Willis, a former senior American official in Iraq, tells NBC News the United States failed to safeguard the oil money known as the Development Fund for Iraq.
What happened to Iraq’s oil money?
At the end of the Iraq war, vast sums of money were made available to the US-led provisional authorities, headed by Paul Bremer, to spend on rebuilding the country. By the time Bremer left the post eight months later, $8.8bn of that money had disappeared. Ed Harriman on the extraordinary scandal of Iraq’s missing billions.
So, Mr Bremer, where did all the money go?
As for your charge that Hussein was using oil-for-food money to enrich cronies, while true, you should know that it could not have happened without the overseers’ collusion:
Documents obtained by CNN reveal the United States knew about, and even condoned, embargo-breaking oil sales by Saddam Hussein’s regime, and did so to shore up alliances with Iraq’s neighbors.
March 24th, 2006 at 2:45 amDocuments: U.S. condoned Iraq oil smuggling
You know what they say about the best laid plans. We have forgiven more debt than this. The pipelines where constantly blown up and I believe the oil is back in the hands of Iraq.
Comment by troll - March 23, 2006 @ 9:09 pm
“Best laid plans”? You must be joking. Have you forgotten “we will be welcomed like liberators”? How about the “it will be a cakewalk”? How do those statements match up to reality? Do they sound like part of a well conceived plan to you?
The oil might be nominally back in the hands of the Iraqis, but the damage is done: The money from the Iraq Reconstruction Fund has been squandered by the occupation forces. I have lost count of how many billions of dollars have gone missing:
Iraq’s oil resources generate billions of dollars - money the United States promised to protect after overthrowing Saddam Hussein.
March 24th, 2006 at 2:52 amNow, Frank Willis, a former senior American official in Iraq, tells NBC News the United States failed to safeguard the oil money known as the Development Fund for Iraq.
What happened to Iraq’s oil money?
Continues from previous post…
(The spam filter wouldn’t let me post the entire comment so I had to split it)
At the end of the Iraq war, vast sums of money were made available to the US-led provisional authorities, headed by Paul Bremer, to spend on rebuilding the country. By the time Bremer left the post eight months later, $8.8bn of that money had disappeared. Ed Harriman on the extraordinary scandal of Iraq’s missing billions.
So, Mr Bremer, where did all the money go?
As for your charge that Hussein was using oil-for-food money to enrich cronies, while true, you should know that it could not have happened without the overseers’ collusion:
Documents obtained by CNN reveal the United States knew about, and even condoned, embargo-breaking oil sales by Saddam Hussein’s regime, and did so to shore up alliances with Iraq’s neighbors.
March 24th, 2006 at 2:54 amDocuments: U.S. condoned Iraq oil smuggling
Continues from previous post…
ok so 500000 divided by 7 = 71428 its still a hell of a lot more than 2400
Comment by troll - March 23, 2006 @ 9:09 pm
So your defence is that the US is still not as bad as Hussein because American troops have killed less children? I hope you don’t tell me that the US is better than Hussein because American troops have tortured less people…
The Christian aid story did not lean your way though.
Wha!? “my way”? What’s positive about “Quality of life indicators in most sectors are no higher than, or even below, the sanctions period just before the coalition invaded in 2003??
The new UNICEF article you cited is almost three years old and measures problems associated with sadaams regime more than occupation. Again the problems with reconstruction efforts are expected given the situation.
The UNICEF article was written after the invasion… also, I provided you with plenty of other links that detail the problems during the occupation: corruption, “missing” funds, civilian death toll; what else do you need?
“Given the situation”? I understand you mean the lack of security which is the direct responsibility of the occupying forces. Also, the reconstruction issues are related to corruption, and theft of funds that should have been destined to rebuild Iraq. I also provided links to show the theft was done under Paul Bremer’s watch.
March 24th, 2006 at 2:54 amthats propaganda we are not intentionally targeting inocent men, women and children.
Comment by troll - March 23, 2006 @ 9:09 pm
Some more news out of Iraq:
US occupation forces are embroiled in a new Iraq scandal, amid charges of killing twenty six Iraqi civilians in two separate incidents.
“It’s a clear and perfect crime without any doubt,” Farouq Hussein, a police colonel in the town of Ishaqi, north of Baghdad, told Reuters on Tuesday, March 21.
Iraqi police accused US occupation forces of gunning down a family of 11 in their home last week.
US Faces Charges of Two Massacres of Iraqi Civilians
Let’s face it: Iraq is a mess. A bloody mess -and the responsibility for whatever happens falls at the feet of the US. I don’t understand how you or anyone else expects Iraqis to be grateful.
The saddest part is that the irony of having to fight the very same people you claim to be “liberating” is completely lost on you.
March 24th, 2006 at 2:55 amGregor
Your starting to reason like Ryan and trying to change the subject from the despicable statements and selfishness of the libs here to the handling of the war. A very troll like attempt.
Most of this is so obvious I must be dealing with ideologues.
If you cant see the difference between the good we are doing in Iraq compared to the actions of Sadaam then your ideology has blinded you.
Most of the Iraqis are grateful for our action but just as much of the media would not publish the Mohammad cartoons for fear of reprisal most Iraqis were not about to dance in the streets.
Bombs go off in recruting lines for police and military and the men get right back in line. They are grateful, its just a handful of muslim ideologues who are lobbing the bombs. The majority may want us out that does not mean they are not grateful for what we have done.
Its a frigin war they tend not to go as planned and they certainly are not pretty. You dont seem to understand the enemy we are dealing with and the urgency of the mission. These fanatics will not stop until they have subjugated the world to their fundementalist version of Islam or we have destroyed them.
I never said the war was going great and everything is hunky dory I said sadaam was slaughtering millions of innocence and we had an open door to intervene. Loose canon nut jobs in the midst of a war is par for the course as are civilian casualties but in the end what we have done is good and noble.
March 24th, 2006 at 8:15 am#67 The typical excuse of warmongers: “Its a frigin war they tend not to go as planned and they certainly are not pretty.”
So there is no difference beteween just or unjust war, well or badly planned war, or bloodsheed or bloodless solutions. Great way of thinking. So you justify incompetence and cronyism based on the uthopic “good results”.
Well, I have news for you: nowadays, results in Iraq are frigin BAD, using your own bad language.
Tell me: if there was an deadly epidemy on the USA, you would support to shot down every infected person? After all, surely they will die after all.
If you say yes, why aren’t you killing every AIDS infected person righ now? Or you’re doing it?
March 24th, 2006 at 8:56 amWho defines unjust? Where is your plan but cut and run?
“Tell me: if there was an deadly epidemy on the USA, you would support to shot down every infected person? After all, surely they will die after all.”
This the loonacy which is the left. You’re the supporters of “mercy killing.”
I know math is hard for you guys but millions is more than thousands.
I live in the real world. Negotiations with sociopath tyrrants does not work it just buys them time. Force is all they understand and we have a president whos got the balls to use it.
March 24th, 2006 at 10:14 amHell,
for a lot less money and bloodshed we could’ve paid Saddam, Uday, and Qusay to disappear from Iraq…
…and won the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people without a single shot being fired…
…but noooo…
…Bushiva and L’il Dick had an election that needed to be won, and money to be spread around amongst their cowardly corrupt corporate cronies…
…my a*shole is raw…
…anybody else’s?
March 24th, 2006 at 12:07 pm#69 Who defines unjust? Where is your plan but cut and run?
Several thigs. You choose:
a) The law of christian & jew & muslim God: “Thou shall NOT kill”.
b) The fact that Saddan had not WMD or relation with Al Qaeda.
c) The several international treaties your country already signed and not followed.
d) Common sense.
e) Truth.
f) Coherency: there are several other dictators and genocides your country doesn’t give a crap or protect to have military bases in his countries. For example: that who boils dissidents to death.. Other example: Pakistan, the country with a dictator and the only muslim one with the atomic bomb. Going after Sadam was plain hypocrisy and had nothng ado with 9/11.
“Tell me: if there was an deadly epidemy on the USA, you would support to shot down every infected person? After all, surely they will die after all.â€
This the loonacy which is the left. You’re the supporters of “mercy killing.â€
The right fringers like you simply support all other flavours of killing. You kill without mercy, in the other hand. “Let God try them”, uh? I guess carpet bombing a city is “helping honest Iraqis” in your distorted mind.
I know math is hard for you guys but millions is more than thousands.
Let’s talk about millions? Two words: Viet Nam. Well before Sadam reached power.
I live in the real world. Negotiations with sociopath tyrrants does not work it just buys them time. Force is all they understand and we have a president whos got the balls to use it.
You mean negotiating with Franco, Videla, Pinochet, Stroessner (nephew of a nazi official), Somoza, Batista, Marcos, Noriega, and many, many others?
March 24th, 2006 at 12:10 pm#69 Your country has negotiated with them, even selling them WMD. You live in a world of hypocrisy:
March 24th, 2006 at 12:16 pm
Big Papa
March 24th, 2006 at 12:17 pm“…my a*shole is raw”
I have read this about you before. Isnt that why they call you “BIG papa”?
The link:
On the left: Rumsfeld. Guess the mustachioed one on the right
March 24th, 2006 at 12:18 pmEvil
March 24th, 2006 at 12:22 pmI refer youy too comment #32 and 33
Troll, the point that I’m making is that YOU (as a country and as a person) MUST NOT decide uniltarally what to do, specially by war, because your country doesn’t understand the world as a whole and never has, and has botched a lot of time. Why? Because you all love too much go alone. Is so difficult to understand? The world isn’t your playground. Period.
And don’t try to sell me that going to Iraq was intendend to fight dictators. Was a personal revenge of G.W. Bush and his cabal. Not about AlQaeda. Not about WMD. Not about spreading democracy. Only revenge, and war for resources. Nothing different than the British Empire.
March 24th, 2006 at 12:30 pmYou can assume the motive of President Bush you havd no evidence to support this theory. I can tell you the American people and its military did not support the war for these reasons. We supported it for security concerns and for the great humanitarian mission it was and is.
There is no moral, legal or intellectual imperative to cause us to act or prevent us from acting only when the world says we can. In your opinion we dont understand the world and in our opinion you are wrong.
March 24th, 2006 at 12:41 pmGregor
“The topic of the thread is the billions that have been wasted in this senseless war. You are changing the subject from that. You are the troll.”
I was very much on thread I thought the money has been relitively well spent.
There is no way the Iraqi people could have risen up against Sadaam you are living in a dream world intoxicated by ideology. Have you not seen the pictures of whole villages which had been gased? Who in their right mind would inflict that on their family?
Truth be told the “Prophet” was a terrorist also.
“The enemy we are dealing with are ordinary Iraqis who want the US out of their country, not Islamic fundamentalists.”
Is that why they are attacking each other they want us out? BS
“…sieging entire cities, emptying them, and razing them is a war crime.” Thay were not empty insurgants were held up in them.
March 24th, 2006 at 1:04 pm#77 You can assume the motive of President Bush you havd no evidence to support this theory. I can tell you the American people and its military did not support the war for these reasons. We supported it for security concerns and for the great humanitarian mission it was and is.
I don’t need to read the mind of Bush. There are plenty of documents that he prepared the invasion of Iraq just 2 days after the 9/11, without evidences of implication. He wanted the invasion before hand and the 9/11 attacks were mana from heaven to justify his actions. Oh, and he declared that Sadam wanted to kill his dad. They made up the intelligence to go Iraq. If all this doesn’t show you the motives of Bush, you’re willfully blind…
There is no moral, legal or intellectual imperative to cause us to act or prevent us from acting only when the world says we can. In your opinion we dont understand the world and in our opinion you are wrong.
There were moral, legal and intellectual motives to not attack.
Intellectual: the intelligence needed to attack Iraq was frail, biased and cherry picked at best.
Legal: the UN inspectors doesn’t ended his work, and the UN was against the attack. I must remind you that your country has signed a lot of treaties with the UN, the OTAN, the Geneva Convention, the laws of the USA (an authorization of the Congress is needed to declare war begin a war againsta a country) and a lot more to not do the attacks unilaterally, or with frail intelligence, as your GOP did.
Moral: Your country has killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians. Bush told so to your country.
And if your country understands the world, explain me please why are you fighting a war against a country that don’t attacked yours, terrorism is rising against your projections, Afghanistan has the bigger drug crops of his history, the Katrina mismanagement, or there is a “pink” revolution down under your country, in all South America, against your “orders”.
Maybe you have a toy who you don’t understand.
March 24th, 2006 at 1:30 pmI was very much on thread I thought the money has been relitively well spent.
Comment by troll — March 24, 2006 @ 1:04 pm
There are staggering amounts of money that have been squandered and/or “missing”. I provided the links to those news.
There is no way the Iraqi people could have risen up against Sadaam you are living in a dream world intoxicated by ideology.
Now you are making no sense -Iraqis could not rise up to Hussein but they can put up a stiff resistance to the US occupation of their country?
Have you not seen the pictures of whole villages which had been gased?
As I said, Hussein was a thug. If you have links to the documentary evidence please provide them.
It is also interesting that the use of chemical weapons by Hussein in the 80s should be a cause of moral outrage by this administration -Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, they were all in the capacity to stop Hussein when he was using those weapons. Why, they could have halted the sale of the chemicals to Iraq, to begin with.
Truth be told the “Prophet†was a terrorist also.
Stop smearing Islam. Yours is a very contradictory attitude: Iraqis want the US miiltary out, but you defend they stay. Iraqis are overwhelmingly Muslim, and you call their prophet a terrorist.
Stop smearing Islam. You have dropped any pretense of respect for Muslims, and Iraqis.
Is that why they are attacking each other they want us out? BS
Yes, they want the US out. Or haven’t you heard of American casualties?
Iraq is also in the midst of a civil war.
Thay were not empty insurgants were held up in them.
Here is a quote for you:
“Basically, we emptied out the city and let the people back in one by one,” said Major Wade Weems, who commands one of two marine reconstruction teams. “We’ve purified the town of every insurgent element.”
Fallujah the safest place in Iraq, says US
Earlier Friday, U.S. planes dropped leaflets urging women and children to leave the Fallujah, residents said.
Sunni clerics have threatened to boycott the election if Fallujah is attacked, and U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan (search) has warned U.S., British and Iraqi authorities that a military campaign and “increased insurgent violence” could put elections at risk.
Iraqi Prime Minister: Fallujah Assault Imminent
After warning residents to leave Fallujah, U.S. Marines and Iraqi forces swept through the city in November, conducting what some Marines have described as “the most intense combat since Vietnam.”
Fallujah Residents Slowly Returning Home
The cities were sieged, and emptied of their residents in clear violation of the Geneva Conventions. Collective punishments are a war crime.
March 24th, 2006 at 1:53 pm“There are staggering amounts of money that have been squandered and/or “missingâ€. I provided the links to those news.”
In that you were on thread but where trying to move it off topic in other comments.
“Now you are making no sense -Iraqis could not rise up to Hussein but they can put up a stiff resistance to the US occupation of their country? ”
A very small number of Iraqis are “resisting” and a large part of the “resistance ” is not Iraqi additionally we are not likely to gas a whole villiage.
“As I said, Hussein was a thug. If you have links to the documentary evidence please provide them.”
Are you suggesting the gassing never happened?
It is also interesting that the use of chemical weapons by Hussein in the 80s should be a cause of moral outrage by this administration -Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, they were all in the capacity to stop Hussein when he was using those weapons. Why, they could have halted the sale of the chemicals to Iraq, to begin with.
If we had youd be bitchen like you are now.
“Stop smearing Islam.”
I am not smearing Islam I am stating a fact about its “prophet”. Non of you stop the Christian “smearing” all over these pgs.
“Yours is a very contradictory attitude: Iraqis want the US miiltary out, but you defend they stay. ”
I want us out asap but not if it means more tyrranny we need to make the move at the appropriate time.
“Iraqis are overwhelmingly Muslim, and you call their prophet a terrorist.”
I can care for muslims and not respect their religion. Or would you prefer I not use my mind or exercize my freedom of speech.
“Stop smearing Islam. You have dropped any pretense of respect for Muslims, and Iraqis.”
That is not true I respect them as human beings as I respect you as a brother human but I dont agree with them or you.
“Yes, they want the US out. Or haven’t you heard of American casualties?”
I think the “they” that are trying to force us out are the same “they” that hope to subjegate the citizens to another form of tyranny either bathists or islamofascist and “they” represent a minority.
Non of the quotes you cited demonstrated that Americans were “sieging entire cities, emptying them, and razing them”
March 24th, 2006 at 2:36 pmYou sound personally offended by my comment regarding the “prophet” are you Muslim?
March 24th, 2006 at 2:55 pmA very small number of Iraqis are “resisting†and a large part of the “resistance †is not Iraqi additionally we are not likely to gas a whole villiage.
Comment by troll — March 24, 2006 @ 2:36 pm
The number of people taking arms might be small compared to the overall population, but they could not survive without the passive or active collaboration of civilians. Furthermore, the ranks of the insurgency are swelling:
IRAQ’S rapidly swelling insurgency numbers 200,000 fighters and active supporters and outnumbers the United States-led coalition forces, the head of the country’s intelligence service said yesterday.
Iraqi insurgents now outnumber coalition forces
As for those foreign fighters, in addition to the links regarding this question that I already provided to you, here are some more:
Report by US think tank says only ‘4 to 10′ percent of insurgents are foreigners.
The ‘myth’ of Iraq’s foreign fighters
“Both Iraqis and coalition people often exaggerate the role of foreign infiltrators and downplay the role of Iraqi resentment in the insurgency,” said Anthony H. Cordesman, a former Pentagon official now at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, who is writing a book about the Iraqi insurgency.
Among Insurgents in Iraq, Few Foreigners Are Found
Are you suggesting the gassing never happened?
I am not. You suggested you had seen the photos. I haven’t. Please provide links to those pictures.
I am not smearing Islam I am stating a fact about its “prophetâ€. (…) I can care for muslims and not respect their religion. Or would you prefer I not use my mind or exercize my freedom of speech.
Stop smearing Islam and its prophet. You cannot respect Muslims and disrespect their religion, that is an illogical statement and a non sequitur.
You can exercise your freedom of speech all you want, don’t be ridiculous. When doing so, remember not to smear Islam or its prophet. Don’t be a bigot.
Non of the quotes you cited demonstrated that Americans were “sieging entire cities, emptying them, and razing them”
In the initial phase of the operations, the US military closed all accesses to the cities and did not allow anyone in or out. The Red Crescent, medical personnel, reporters were not allowed in. This was widely reported, and it is to lay siege to a city.
Then the US military asked the residents to leave, as the links I provided show. That is to empty a city.
Then the cities were bombed. Close to half of Fallujah was destroyed. That is to raze a city:
The Americans took control of the city last November, when the military engaged in the fiercest urban combat it had seen since the Vietnam War. Dozens of troops died and hundreds were wounded in the eight-day siege, and half of Falluja, once hailed as the “City of Mosques,” was destroyed, while another quarter suffered structural damage.
8 Months After U.S.-Led Siege, Insurgents Rise Again in Falluja
“Tal Afar is a tribal city and its people were not patient with the presence of American forces,” said Farouq Abdullah Abdul Rahman, the president of the Iraqi Turkmen Front, in Baghdad yesterday. He agreed that there was friction with US forces but denied that anything justified the siege, with many Turkmen close to the front line fleeing into the countryside. “More than 60 people have been killed, including women and children, and 100 wounded.”
March 24th, 2006 at 3:27 pmTurkey Reacts with Fury to Massive U.S. Assault on Northern Iraqi City
You sound personally offended by my comment regarding the “prophet†are you Muslim?
Comment by troll — March 24, 2006 @ 2:55 pm
My religion is not important. Stop smearing Islam and its prophet.
March 24th, 2006 at 3:28 pmI only hope to bring attention to the fact that islam was spread by the “prophet” by means of force, threats and terror. If a comic depicts him with a bomb in his turban that is his right just as it is your right ro smear President Bush.
March 24th, 2006 at 3:56 pmI only hope to bring attention to the fact that islam was spread by the “prophet†by means of force, threats and terror.
Comment by troll — March 24, 2006 @ 3:56 pm
That is the same way Christianity was spread in the Americas (by forced mass conversions), and the way the “purity of the faith” was ensured in the Old Continent (thanks to the Holy Inquisition).
If a comic depicts him with a bomb in his turban that is his right just as it is your right ro smear President Bush.
Depicting the prophet in any way is a blasphemy and a sacrilege, akin to protraying Christ as a pedophile or the Virgin Mary as an escort.
Pres Bush is not a prophet, the messiah, let alone god. Pears and apples.
March 24th, 2006 at 4:11 pm“Depicting the prophet in any way is a blasphemy and a sacrilege, akin to protraying Christ as a pedophile or the Virgin Mary as an escort.”
Its been done. In civilized society we dont kill for these things.
March 24th, 2006 at 4:27 pmIt is a fact that George Bush is President of the US it is Mohammad prophet is viewed by most of the world to be a myth. So you are correct pears and apples.
March 24th, 2006 at 4:30 pmHow can you be so critical in your thought when it comes to US policy and yet so gullible when it comes to Mohammad?
March 24th, 2006 at 4:33 pmIt is islam that is bigoted. A man has been sentenced to death in Afganistan for converting to Christianity. According to muslim tradition Christians and Jews have to pay a special tax for the right to not be muslim. According to Islam people not of the book have no right to life. According to the “Prophet” Jesus another alleged prophet was never crucified it was a hoax. That my friend is a smear by the “prophet” himself. Towards another prophet.
March 24th, 2006 at 4:40 pmI had a gut feeling way back that I was dealing with an ideologue who was not capable of being objective and it seems I was correct.
March 24th, 2006 at 4:46 pmI had a gut feeling way back that I was dealing with an ideologue who was not capable of being objective and it seems I was correct.
Comment by troll — March 24, 2006 @ 4:46 pm
You have no idea what you are talking about. I have provided plenty of links to show the carnage and despair the US is causing in Iraq. It is you who has chosen to ignore te evidence, and hence are not objective.
Like your question: “How can you be so critical in your thought when it comes to US policy and yet so gullible when it comes to Mohammad?”
Who says I am a Muslim? I could turn the tables on you and ask: How can you be so gullible about Jesus Christ?
And your little tirade on supposed Muslim traditions: You have no idea what you are talking about. Plus, the Afghan Christian convert has not been sentenced to death, and is actually expected to be released.
And for the Nth time: Stop smearing Islam, don’t be such a bigot. You have no respect for Muslims, Islam, or Iraqis.
March 24th, 2006 at 5:02 pmSec of state Rice had to intervene.
“And your little tirade on supposed Muslim traditions: You have no idea what you are talking about. ” Please elighten me I was getting board of the other stuff anyway.
March 24th, 2006 at 5:16 pmWrong bored sorry
March 24th, 2006 at 5:29 pmHopefully we will one day have a charitable conversation on these things and my understanding will be found wantingBismillah
March 24th, 2006 at 8:13 pmRyan you retard I cant resist constantly demonstrating what a retard you are all the time. I wonder if you are a troll sent to make me look good. Jesus did not tell Christians to do these things Mohammad did teach muslims to do these things.
MORON
March 25th, 2006 at 7:02 amIn addition retard many Christians believe that a child in utero is an innocent human child and those that harm abortion doctors believe they are protecting innocent life from violence.
What rational justification do muslims have when they kill a man for no longer believing in their particular faith besides “Allah told me to”?
MORON
March 25th, 2006 at 7:36 amRyan
“Christianity has a 600 hear head start on sado-maschism, but if you believe christianity is innocent of these actions historically or currently - than you’re a fool. ”
Christians as a whole were pacifist for the first 3-4 hundred years easy.
MORON
March 25th, 2006 at 8:21 amWhy dont you just call yourself moron.
MORON
March 25th, 2006 at 8:21 amStudy for yourself and see. http://answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/apostasy.htm
March 25th, 2006 at 10:37 am[…] Bush nektet å bytte ut forsvarsminister Donald Rumsfeld, verken med Rumsfeld eller noen annen person, til tross for krav om hans avgang etter avsløringene av hans dårlige håndtering av Irak-krigen og Abu Ghraib skandalen: "Jeg tror ikke noen kunne forutse at krigen i Irak ville koste så mye penger, eller at noen ville miste livet." […]
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