McClellan’s Myth: “Freedom of Religion†Is A “Bedrock Principle†Of The Afghan Constitution
McClellan’s Myth: “Freedom of Religion†Is A “Bedrock Principle†Of The Afghan Constitution
At today’s White House press briefing, Scott McClellan – parroting President Bush – claimed that Afghan constitution protected freedom of religion:
McCLELLAN: Well, I think you should look at the Afghan constitution. It was a constitution that was widely praised for how forward-looking it was and the values that are enshrined in that constitution. And it’s important for the government of Afghanistan to reaffirm the bedrock principles in that constitution, one of which is freedom of religion.
McClellan added that the prosecution of Abdul Rahman for converting to Christianity “clearly violates the Afghan constitution.†It’s not true. The United States Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF), an government entity, explained in a letter it sent to President Bush yesterday:
On several previous occasions, the Commission has raised concern that the Afghan constitution’s failure to include adequate guarantees of freedom of religion and expression for members of the country’s majority Muslim community could lead to unjust criminal accusations of apostasy and blasphemy. With no guarantee of the right to religious freedom for all individuals, together with a judicial system instructed to enforce Islamic principles and Islamic law, the door is open for a harsh, unfair, or even abusive interpretation of religious orthodoxy to be officially imposed…
This is an extremely important distinction. If the Afghan constitution protected freedom of religion, the entire issue could be resolved by convincing the Afghan government to drop the case against Rahman. Actually, it’s a systemic problem, rooted in the constitution, that requires the United States to pressure the Afghan government to make fundamental reforms.
The USCIRF has been encouraging the Bush administration to do just that for years, to no avail.
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they’re about to execute a guy for converting to Christianity…
March 23rd, 2006 at 4:50 pmThis hasnt been the first case of religious persercution in Afganistain since the US liberation.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:09 pmpervious two Afganies were sentenced to death by stoning. (they escaped from prison and fled the country)
Acutally I have read the Afgan Const. Artilce 1:1 and 2:1 directly contradicts Article 2:2 – they are mutually exclusive as far as Sharia Law is concerned.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:09 pm“they’re about to execute a guy for converting to Christianity…”
But they are a FREE country! /Sarcasm off/
It’s like being executed for being a Democrat, or Independant. This is what we have sent our military to die for. WAY TO GO KING GEORGE!
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:10 pmyou’d think the right would be up in arms about this, especially bush, he is a born again and this is one of his brethren…oh, wait, they arn’t white, nevermind – no help from the right on this, just brush it under the rug
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:12 pm#4 in a perfect world, bush would gladlly rid the country of any “unpatriotic, terrorits loving liberals” and then tout the freedom of speech
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:16 pmThe extent to which religious freedom is gauranteed in Afghanistan’s constitution breaks down like this: If you’re a non-Muslim practicing Christian, Buddhist, etc., you can practice your faith here, and are not barred from converting to Islam. However, if you’re a Afghan Muslim, you can’t worship any religion other than Islam.
Hardly “free.”
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:20 pmNo it is not very free, it is however freer with the Taliban gone. However it is still illegal to practice Christianity in Saudi Arabia, or in a number of other muslim countries.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:23 pmBET CHRISTIANS ARE HAVING IT PRETTY ROUGH IN IRAQ TOO….AND WILL HAVE IT MUCH ROUGHER IF THE IRAQIS EVER PUT TOGETHER A FUNCTIONAL GOVERNMENT.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:24 pmSo Scotty is basically saying the Afghanis don’t even know their own Constitution? That’s funny, considering the source.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:29 pm“it’s important for the government of Afghanistan to reaffirm the bedrock principles in that constitution, one of which is freedom of religion.”
Please Scotty, don’t encourage the Afgan’s anymore. They are already are affirming the “bedrock principles” with the trial of this poor guy who converted 16 years ago.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:32 pm9# your lucky there is still christians in Iraq and about 6%
If Iraq had invaded America , America insurgents would have killed any Muslims living in their community
I think religion is manmade for manmade needs – I have no need of religion
Christians beleive Jesus was the son of God
Muslims beleive Mohamad was a phophet from god
Muslims beleive Jesus was a prophet from God
Christians have the mentality of what came first the chicken or the egg and therefore dont beleive the Mohamad Phrophet bitty
To me its all bullshit
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:37 pmJust a way of the rich at the top telling the poor to be good and not steal my money
when will the press boycott the little stay-puff marshmellow man and the lies he spews (when he does say anything of substance)
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:37 pm#8 However we didn’t invade Saudi Arabia and push for a new constitution. Bush and co. point to the constitution as a great example of freedom of religion when that is simply not true. This, though, is a great example of this administration knowingly mislead us.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:43 pmNobody in the Bush Regime tells the truth about anything > they all are pathological liars! It is not possible for America to survive with this amount of stupidity and corruption in Washington, DC! The economy might collapse before November along with war with Iran?!
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:46 pm1 Trillion dollars in 2 wars so we can build hospitals and girls schools. Is this really what they want reported. As for the convert facing death, shouldnt he be happy that soon he will be in the arms of jesus??? I never understand why the religous are so anti-death, for if there is a heaven and everything is Gods will, then they should look with envy at this man about to begin eternal bliss……Religon is the one true evil!
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:47 pmAbdul Rahman (3/23)…
Senior Muslim clerics in Afghanistan are demanding that Abdul Rahman be executed for converting from Islam to Christianity. They warn that if he is not executed by the state they will incite the people to kill him….
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:49 pmAnybody got any ideas i want to be unchristianed, I told my mum and dad this a few years ago – how do i go about doing that – I was a baby at the time and my parents should have asked me first
Ive been on about it for ages – im an Athiest and hate being called a Christian cause i live in the UK
I really want de-christained
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:55 pmI don’t think religon is evil, I think organized religion is evil. I have practiced christianity all my life, and will continue to do so for the rest of my time here and beyond. What I usually have trouble with is men who take the word of god, or jesus or mohammad, and twist it to their desires.
I pray, I believe, but I don’t go to church. the only thing I really miss is communion.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:56 pmFreedom of religion is a bedrock principal as long as your religeon is Islam you are free to worship.
March 23rd, 2006 at 6:02 pmIt’s more of the same old same old. They just say anything as though saying it will make it so. It’s a very pernicious sort of lying; you just don’t care what the truth is.
March 23rd, 2006 at 6:04 pmIf this is Bush’s exporting freedom and Democracy at the point of a gun, COUNT ME OUT! Let the chickenhawks(Bush/Cheney et al) go fight.
March 23rd, 2006 at 6:16 pm#19 I do agree with you completely….I should have clarified my opinion, thanx for the heads up.
March 23rd, 2006 at 6:25 pmThe Iraq Constitution, the one drawn up under Bush’s watch, declars Islam to be the State Religion as well.
March 23rd, 2006 at 6:27 pmDon’t be so hard on Bush .. after all this proof of his ignorance .. I just feel sorry for him .. and even more sorry for you .. who have him as your president.
March 23rd, 2006 at 6:38 pmThe Iraq Constitution, the one drawn up under Bush’s watch, declars Islam to be the State Religion as well.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
And therein lies problem. All other articles of the constitution must bow to Islamic Law—-which decrees death to any convert away from Islam, even (as in this case) it was 16 years ago, before the constitution was even drawn up.
Did Bush and all his well educated and expert consultants who helped the new Afgan government draw up and draft the articles know that before it was approved? He is too damned dumb to know, but how his team of “constitutionalists” and advisors not have been aware of it?
March 23rd, 2006 at 6:39 pmIslamic principles and Islamic law do not allow for changing religion – according to principle, it is a tenet which, if violated, is punishable by death.
March 23rd, 2006 at 6:43 pmIt is a pipedream to think that an Western-style democracy could be imposed upon an Islamic country with a newly printed western-style “constitution.”
I find it hypocritical that Bush&Co are outraged that a muslim who turned to christianity might be executed, when our own fundamental religious leaders and their followers advocate the same for homosexuals, war protestors, doctors who perform abortions, and even muslims in general. (Recall words of Robertson and Falwell, and even Graham.) They can’t understand a christian who would convert to Islam either, because those fundamentalists are generally intolerant of anyone who doesn’t follow their interpretation of the Bible.
McClellan is just blowing smoke, as usual.
It is important to note that this death sentence is derived from Sharia law, a standard that is being pursued by Muslim leaders throughout the world. Despite all the warm and cuddly feelings that we are supposed to display regarding other cultures and beliefs, this action appears to be part of
March 23rd, 2006 at 7:01 pman Islamic imperialism that is as dangerous to civilization as the march of Christian fundamentalism. Sometimes it seems as if we are on the verge of a new Dark Age.
How is Afganistan any different then before we went in? The Taliban still exists. Osama is running around. Sharia law is now ever more enshrined as consitutional law and has the veener of democracy masking it.
What has changed? What have we accomplished?
March 23rd, 2006 at 7:09 pmWhat has changed? What have we accomplished?
Comment by quicksand — March 23, 2006 @ 7:09 pm
The bank accounts and stock values of certain companies and individuals have increased in value……………( and none of then call Afghanistan home.);
March 23rd, 2006 at 7:22 pmBush & Co. are just flat out full of crap. The price tag for his Iraq folly is now up to $2 trillion with nothing but sand, ashes, rubble, maimed bodies, and putrifying flesh to show for it. We are giving democracy a bad name.
March 23rd, 2006 at 8:30 pm[...] ThinkProgress picks apart White House Press Sec Scotty McClellan on the issue of freedom of religion in Afghanistan. Apparently things over there aren’t as free as the White House would like to claim. [...]
March 23rd, 2006 at 9:30 pmah yes! the “blame the constitution” defense.
now available for use abroad.
by the way, scotty seems to be pretty impressed with afghanistan’s constitution. won’t this reverence for foreign law cause right wing heads to start exploding? will someone keep an eye on norm coleman please?
maybe karzai will decide that article 2 of the afghan constitution grants him nearly unlimited power during wartime, and he’ll simply throw out the court’s decision.
March 23rd, 2006 at 9:58 pmWhere are Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, and Billy Grahm, and all of the other “Holier Than Thou” crowd? Why aren’t they calling for the Bush Administration to rescue this man? Why doesn’t GWB ask that Karzai send this man to America, where he would be “free” to practice whatever religion he wants, without fear of prosecution? It would be the “christian” thing to do, wouldn’t it?
March 23rd, 2006 at 10:18 pmkeep on, keepin’ on with the double talk!!
March 23rd, 2006 at 11:11 pmSince there are a lot of Americans who reject Islam, does that mean they still want to kill Americans?
March 23rd, 2006 at 11:55 pmWhy should anyone in the Bush Administration know about the Afghan Constitution? If they don’t read anything, how are they supposed to know what’s going on? This is similar to their constant refrains that Iraq isn’t in a civil war. This is yet more attempts to brainwash Americans into believeing that all is well in Iraq and Afghanistan. The BA must realize the obvious, then deal with it. Constantly denying clear facts is a hallmark of these guys.
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
March 24th, 2006 at 8:03 amMost Ridiculous Story of the Day: Right Now on LCL
#9, read somewhere (can’t remember where) that hundreds of thousands of christians have fled Irag due to violence shown toward them.
March 24th, 2006 at 8:18 amAfghan Religious Leaders are demanding the death of the Islamic man who converted to Christianity today! Karzai is so weak that people spit on him now! This whole event proves that Bush is a phony Christian and most likely the Anti-Christ that the New Testament Bible warned us about > the man of perdition and sin who loves war?!
March 24th, 2006 at 8:25 amAnd it’s important for the government of Afghanistan to reaffirm the bedrock principles in that constitution, one of which is freedom of religion.
Scotty may have somethin’ here.
March 24th, 2006 at 10:22 amAren’t the ‘Bedrock Principles’ those that are used where Fred Flinstone live?
Sounds like junior may have had a 10 watt bulb go off in that empty space twixt his chimp-like ears.
I think i saw Karzai talking about having this guy examined to find out if he is mentally fit. I’m guessing he will get to spend the rest of his days in a mental institution in Afghanistan in stead of being executed. I can imagine the psyche hospitals over there (if they did exist). Makes execution look awful tempting.
March 24th, 2006 at 11:00 amQuestion: If democracy is forced upon people, is it still democratic?
They have al Qaida…
…we have al Cracker…
…let’s call the whole thing off…
March 24th, 2006 at 11:47 amJudd, great point. This is something no one in the White House press corps, save Helen Thomas, ever calls them on. How is that? And why? How many of them know this about Afghanistan’s constitution and have done their homework? And how many of them know, but still refuse to call this administration on such statementa? That willingly allow this administration to lie to the American people and the world with impunity.
March 24th, 2006 at 11:56 amNo punishment for changing religion has been prescribed in Quran, in fact the following verse completely refutes this erroneous claim:
Those who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them nor will He guide them to the right way. (Chapter4 Al-Nisa: Verse138)
This verse proclaims that persons who renounce Islam have the opportunity to re-enter Islam if they so choose. This verse disproves the assertion that according to the Holy Quran an apostate should be put to death. Were death the automatic punishment for an apostate then there arises no question of having the opportunity to join Islam again. This verse mentions apostates who again accept Islam.
There is no mention in the Holy Quran or anywhere else of any punishment for an apostate which may be meted out to him by any other person. The consequences of his apostasy in this world and in the next life lie solely in the hands of God. Man is free to accept or reject whatever beliefs he chooses. God says in the Holy Quran:
There is no compulsion in religion. (Chapter2 Al_baqara: Verse257)
March 24th, 2006 at 12:43 pmIt is the truth from your Lord; wherefore let him who will believe and let him who will disbelieve. (Chapter18 Al-Kahf: Verse30)
Islam recognizes the right of freedom of conscience and freedom of belief and that as far as one’s religious belief is concerned one is answerable to God alone. No man has the right to punish another for his choice of belief. There is absolutely no compulsion whatsoever in Islam and no punishment of any kind permitted in the Holy Quran for apostasy.
Human rights are laid down in the Holy Quran which guarantee man the right of perfect freedom of faith and conscience. In such matters God is the Judge – not man
#45- Thank you for sharing that.
March 24th, 2006 at 12:54 pmThanks 45:
Our puppets in Afghanistan are no doubt using the Quran for their own political ends, much like our president and his followers use the Bible for THEIR political ends.
May they all rot in hell.
March 24th, 2006 at 1:09 pm#47 bb
March 24th, 2006 at 1:53 pmFarooq gives a completely understandable explanation of the Quran in this matter, and from what little I know of Islam, he would seem correct to me;
so perhaps their fanatics, the fundamentalists much like the ones we have here in the USofA prefer to put their own “spin” on the holy word and select which tenets they will enforce to the nth degree.
“I never understand why the religous are so anti-death, for if there is a heaven and everything is Gods will, then they should look with envy at this man about to begin eternal bliss……Religon is the one true evil!”
This is the case where religion is based on belief instead of experience. When it comes time to face the jury, they have no experience and faith tends to crumble in the face of suffereing and death.
The problems in the world are not due to religion in general but due to revealed religions that go on faith. This breeds fanaticism.
This is why I am a Pagan. I try to have no belief. I go on experience and hope, things I know and things I hope for. I reject believe best I can.
Modern Paganism is based on relationship to the world around us. We get our ethics from relationship. We find inspiration in honest deep relationship whether it is with a tree or a human being or the sunset. At the core of it is something tangible that I can relate to, and that thing is reality as we know it.
If anyone is really interested in Paganism or a non-monotheistic spiritual path read “Living Druidry” by Emma Restall Orr. It is a mind opening book. She really has a deep understanding of Western Philosophy and is able to present a view of Paganism that isn’t fluff. It has real meat to it. If this all sounds weird, remember that Hinduism is a pagan religion. The theology of it all is something that rings true to me and seems logical and sound. Sorry if this seems like an ad! :>)
My point here is that I think religion based on faith and requires belief in an afterlife is a recipe for disaster.
#18 “Anybody got any ideas i want to be unchristianed, I told my mum and dad this a few years ago – how do i go about doing that”
Just reject it outright. Be strong in stating who you are. Live your truth.
March 24th, 2006 at 3:53 pmSweden is the most Islamic non-Islamic country in the world. Swedish socialdemocratic women are already led by a Muslim and both in UN and EU human rights are supervised by Swedes known for embracing the so called positive “Stalin-rights” rather than the original negative ones aimed for protection against – yes Stalin and other dangerous people and ideologies, such as e.g. Islam!
March 26th, 2006 at 6:34 pm[...] The Bush Administration has issued numerous statements expressing outrage over the trial but not once has the media mentioned how back in 2004 when the Afghan Constitution was ratified, Bush hailed it for “laying the foundation for democratic institutions” despite the provision in the constitution, which critics warned about at the time, asserted the supremacy of Islamic law. [...]
March 27th, 2006 at 5:43 pmThe histories of Jews and Christians abound with stories of people being killed because they worshiped the wrong god(s) or refused to worship the right one. When gods are national gods, when church and state are one, this is unavoidable. We even see traces of it in the behaviour of many members of the Christian Right today….people who should know better.
Remember the massacre of 8500 priests and priestesses of Baal in the Bible. Remember the Crusades, the Inquisition, religious wars in Europe, remember Salem, Mass. We’ve been there, done that.
In North America and most of Europe we are lucky. We can read our sacred books and those of other people. We have some idea of history, ours and that of other people. To question is not to deny.
In Kandahar most Afghanis cannot read the Qur’an because they can’t read Arabic or anything else. They must believe only what they are told. Their history is local and tribal. They have little idea of the larger world. Foreigners have been Europeans out to exploit them, or heavily armed Russian or US troops.
Muslim leaders in the West largely disagree with the Kandahar religious leaders over Rahman. They see the law against apostasy as a relic of medieval warfare, with no relevance to today.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:22 pmIslam is evil…Muslims want to kill us all
March 31st, 2006 at 4:26 amPLEASE SIR,
I WILL BE VERY HAPPY NIF YOU COULD KINDLY SEND
ME HOLY QURAN PLEASE IN ALLAHS NAME PLEASE.
ABDUL LATIF ADAMU
March 31st, 2006 at 1:09 pmANYAANO MIA J.S.S.
P.O.BOX NT 37
KUMASI, GHANA