Comments on: McClellan’s Myth: “Freedom of Religion” Is A “Bedrock Principle” Of The Afghan Constitution http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/ Fri, 27 Nov 2009 01:23:47 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Abdul Latif Adamu http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-2/#comment-491893 Abdul Latif Adamu Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:09:11 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-491893 PLEASE SIR, I WILL BE VERY HAPPY NIF YOU COULD KINDLY SEND ME HOLY QURAN PLEASE IN ALLAHS NAME PLEASE. ABDUL LATIF ADAMU ANYAANO MIA J.S.S. P.O.BOX NT 37 KUMASI, GHANA PLEASE SIR,
I WILL BE VERY HAPPY NIF YOU COULD KINDLY SEND
ME HOLY QURAN PLEASE IN ALLAHS NAME PLEASE.

ABDUL LATIF ADAMU
ANYAANO MIA J.S.S.
P.O.BOX NT 37
KUMASI, GHANA

]]> By: WW http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-2/#comment-491398 WW Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:26:51 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-491398 Islam is evil...Muslims want to kill us all Islam is evil…Muslims want to kill us all

]]> By: David T http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-2/#comment-488460 David T Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:22:41 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-488460 The histories of Jews and Christians abound with stories of people being killed because they worshiped the wrong god(s) or refused to worship the right one. When gods are national gods, when church and state are one, this is unavoidable. We even see traces of it in the behaviour of many members of the Christian Right today....people who should know better. Remember the massacre of 8500 priests and priestesses of Baal in the Bible. Remember the Crusades, the Inquisition, religious wars in Europe, remember Salem, Mass. We've been there, done that. In North America and most of Europe we are lucky. We can read our sacred books and those of other people. We have some idea of history, ours and that of other people. To question is not to deny. In Kandahar most Afghanis cannot read the Qur'an because they can't read Arabic or anything else. They must believe only what they are told. Their history is local and tribal. They have little idea of the larger world. Foreigners have been Europeans out to exploit them, or heavily armed Russian or US troops. Muslim leaders in the West largely disagree with the Kandahar religious leaders over Rahman. They see the law against apostasy as a relic of medieval warfare, with no relevance to today. The histories of Jews and Christians abound with stories of people being killed because they worshiped the wrong god(s) or refused to worship the right one. When gods are national gods, when church and state are one, this is unavoidable. We even see traces of it in the behaviour of many members of the Christian Right today….people who should know better.

Remember the massacre of 8500 priests and priestesses of Baal in the Bible. Remember the Crusades, the Inquisition, religious wars in Europe, remember Salem, Mass. We’ve been there, done that.

In North America and most of Europe we are lucky. We can read our sacred books and those of other people. We have some idea of history, ours and that of other people. To question is not to deny.

In Kandahar most Afghanis cannot read the Qur’an because they can’t read Arabic or anything else. They must believe only what they are told. Their history is local and tribal. They have little idea of the larger world. Foreigners have been Europeans out to exploit them, or heavily armed Russian or US troops.

Muslim leaders in the West largely disagree with the Kandahar religious leaders over Rahman. They see the law against apostasy as a relic of medieval warfare, with no relevance to today.

]]> By: Moderates from South Dakota » Blog Archive » Network News Gives Bush a Pass http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-487589 Moderates from South Dakota » Blog Archive » Network News Gives Bush a Pass Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:43:23 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-487589 [...] The Bush Administration has issued numerous statements expressing outrage over the trial but not once has the media mentioned how back in 2004 when the Afghan Constitution was ratified, Bush hailed it for “laying the foundation for democratic institutions” despite the provision in the constitution, which critics warned about at the time, asserted the supremacy of Islamic law. [...] [...] The Bush Administration has issued numerous statements expressing outrage over the trial but not once has the media mentioned how back in 2004 when the Afghan Constitution was ratified, Bush hailed it for “laying the foundation for democratic institutions” despite the provision in the constitution, which critics warned about at the time, asserted the supremacy of Islamic law. [...]

]]> By: Klevius http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-486923 Klevius Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:34:45 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-486923 Sweden is the most Islamic non-Islamic country in the world. Swedish socialdemocratic women are already led by a Muslim and both in UN and EU human rights are supervised by Swedes known for embracing the so called positive "Stalin-rights" rather than the original negative ones aimed for protection against - yes Stalin and other dangerous people and ideologies, such as e.g. Islam! Sweden is the most Islamic non-Islamic country in the world. Swedish socialdemocratic women are already led by a Muslim and both in UN and EU human rights are supervised by Swedes known for embracing the so called positive “Stalin-rights” rather than the original negative ones aimed for protection against – yes Stalin and other dangerous people and ideologies, such as e.g. Islam!

]]> By: Pagan American http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-485409 Pagan American Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:53:46 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-485409 "I never understand why the religous are so anti-death, for if there is a heaven and everything is Gods will, then they should look with envy at this man about to begin eternal bliss……Religon is the one true evil!" This is the case where religion is based on belief instead of experience. When it comes time to face the jury, they have no experience and faith tends to crumble in the face of suffereing and death. The problems in the world are not due to religion in general but due to revealed religions that go on faith. This breeds fanaticism. This is why I am a Pagan. I try to have no belief. I go on experience and hope, things I know and things I hope for. I reject believe best I can. Modern Paganism is based on relationship to the world around us. We get our ethics from relationship. We find inspiration in honest deep relationship whether it is with a tree or a human being or the sunset. At the core of it is something tangible that I can relate to, and that thing is reality as we know it. If anyone is really interested in Paganism or a non-monotheistic spiritual path read "Living Druidry" by Emma Restall Orr. It is a mind opening book. She really has a deep understanding of Western Philosophy and is able to present a view of Paganism that isn't fluff. It has real meat to it. If this all sounds weird, remember that Hinduism is a pagan religion. The theology of it all is something that rings true to me and seems logical and sound. Sorry if this seems like an ad! :>) My point here is that I think religion based on faith and requires belief in an afterlife is a recipe for disaster. #18 "Anybody got any ideas i want to be unchristianed, I told my mum and dad this a few years ago - how do i go about doing that" Just reject it outright. Be strong in stating who you are. Live your truth. “I never understand why the religous are so anti-death, for if there is a heaven and everything is Gods will, then they should look with envy at this man about to begin eternal bliss……Religon is the one true evil!”

This is the case where religion is based on belief instead of experience. When it comes time to face the jury, they have no experience and faith tends to crumble in the face of suffereing and death.

The problems in the world are not due to religion in general but due to revealed religions that go on faith. This breeds fanaticism.

This is why I am a Pagan. I try to have no belief. I go on experience and hope, things I know and things I hope for. I reject believe best I can.

Modern Paganism is based on relationship to the world around us. We get our ethics from relationship. We find inspiration in honest deep relationship whether it is with a tree or a human being or the sunset. At the core of it is something tangible that I can relate to, and that thing is reality as we know it.

If anyone is really interested in Paganism or a non-monotheistic spiritual path read “Living Druidry” by Emma Restall Orr. It is a mind opening book. She really has a deep understanding of Western Philosophy and is able to present a view of Paganism that isn’t fluff. It has real meat to it. If this all sounds weird, remember that Hinduism is a pagan religion. The theology of it all is something that rings true to me and seems logical and sound. Sorry if this seems like an ad! :>)

My point here is that I think religion based on faith and requires belief in an afterlife is a recipe for disaster.

#18 “Anybody got any ideas i want to be unchristianed, I told my mum and dad this a few years ago – how do i go about doing that”

Just reject it outright. Be strong in stating who you are. Live your truth.

]]> By: Marie http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-485259 Marie Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:53:07 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-485259 <em>#47 bb</em> Farooq gives a completely understandable explanation of the Quran in this matter, and from what little I know of Islam, he would seem correct to me; so perhaps their fanatics, the fundamentalists much like the ones we have here in the USofA prefer to put their own "spin" on the holy word and select which tenets they will enforce to the nth degree. #47 bb
Farooq gives a completely understandable explanation of the Quran in this matter, and from what little I know of Islam, he would seem correct to me;
so perhaps their fanatics, the fundamentalists much like the ones we have here in the USofA prefer to put their own “spin” on the holy word and select which tenets they will enforce to the nth degree.

]]> By: Bush Bites http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-485200 Bush Bites Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:09:29 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-485200 Thanks 45: Our puppets in Afghanistan are no doubt using the Quran for their own political ends, much like our president and his followers use the Bible for THEIR political ends. May they all rot in hell. Thanks 45:

Our puppets in Afghanistan are no doubt using the Quran for their own political ends, much like our president and his followers use the Bible for THEIR political ends.

May they all rot in hell.

]]> By: Cyra Brown http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-485173 Cyra Brown Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:54:55 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-485173 #45- Thank you for sharing that. #45- Thank you for sharing that.

]]> By: Farooq http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-485156 Farooq Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:43:30 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-485156 No punishment for changing religion has been prescribed in Quran, in fact the following verse completely refutes this erroneous claim: Those who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them nor will He guide them to the right way. (Chapter4 Al-Nisa: Verse138) This verse proclaims that persons who renounce Islam have the opportunity to re-enter Islam if they so choose. This verse disproves the assertion that according to the Holy Quran an apostate should be put to death. Were death the automatic punishment for an apostate then there arises no question of having the opportunity to join Islam again. This verse mentions apostates who again accept Islam. There is no mention in the Holy Quran or anywhere else of any punishment for an apostate which may be meted out to him by any other person. The consequences of his apostasy in this world and in the next life lie solely in the hands of God. Man is free to accept or reject whatever beliefs he chooses. God says in the Holy Quran: There is no compulsion in religion. (Chapter2 Al_baqara: Verse257) It is the truth from your Lord; wherefore let him who will believe and let him who will disbelieve. (Chapter18 Al-Kahf: Verse30) Islam recognizes the right of freedom of conscience and freedom of belief and that as far as one's religious belief is concerned one is answerable to God alone. No man has the right to punish another for his choice of belief. There is absolutely no compulsion whatsoever in Islam and no punishment of any kind permitted in the Holy Quran for apostasy. Human rights are laid down in the Holy Quran which guarantee man the right of perfect freedom of faith and conscience. In such matters God is the Judge - not man No punishment for changing religion has been prescribed in Quran, in fact the following verse completely refutes this erroneous claim:
Those who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them nor will He guide them to the right way. (Chapter4 Al-Nisa: Verse138)
This verse proclaims that persons who renounce Islam have the opportunity to re-enter Islam if they so choose. This verse disproves the assertion that according to the Holy Quran an apostate should be put to death. Were death the automatic punishment for an apostate then there arises no question of having the opportunity to join Islam again. This verse mentions apostates who again accept Islam.
There is no mention in the Holy Quran or anywhere else of any punishment for an apostate which may be meted out to him by any other person. The consequences of his apostasy in this world and in the next life lie solely in the hands of God. Man is free to accept or reject whatever beliefs he chooses. God says in the Holy Quran:

There is no compulsion in religion. (Chapter2 Al_baqara: Verse257)
It is the truth from your Lord; wherefore let him who will believe and let him who will disbelieve. (Chapter18 Al-Kahf: Verse30)
Islam recognizes the right of freedom of conscience and freedom of belief and that as far as one’s religious belief is concerned one is answerable to God alone. No man has the right to punish another for his choice of belief. There is absolutely no compulsion whatsoever in Islam and no punishment of any kind permitted in the Holy Quran for apostasy.
Human rights are laid down in the Holy Quran which guarantee man the right of perfect freedom of faith and conscience. In such matters God is the Judge – not man

]]> By: MediaBloodhound http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-485074 MediaBloodhound Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:56:11 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-485074 Judd, great point. This is something no one in the White House press corps, save Helen Thomas, ever calls them on. How is that? And why? How many of them know this about Afghanistan's constitution and have done their homework? And how many of them know, but still refuse to call this administration on such statementa? That willingly allow this administration to lie to the American people and the world with impunity. Judd, great point. This is something no one in the White House press corps, save Helen Thomas, ever calls them on. How is that? And why? How many of them know this about Afghanistan’s constitution and have done their homework? And how many of them know, but still refuse to call this administration on such statementa? That willingly allow this administration to lie to the American people and the world with impunity.

]]> By: big papa http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-485063 big papa Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:47:15 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-485063 <strong>They have al Qaida... ...we have al Cracker... ...let's call the whole thing off...</strong> They have al Qaida…

…we have al Cracker…

…let’s call the whole thing off…

]]> By: elcanuckistani http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-485012 elcanuckistani Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:00:54 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-485012 I think i saw Karzai talking about having this guy examined to find out if he is mentally fit. I'm guessing he will get to spend the rest of his days in a mental institution in Afghanistan in stead of being executed. I can imagine the psyche hospitals over there (if they did exist). Makes execution look awful tempting. Question: If democracy is forced upon people, is it still democratic? I think i saw Karzai talking about having this guy examined to find out if he is mentally fit. I’m guessing he will get to spend the rest of his days in a mental institution in Afghanistan in stead of being executed. I can imagine the psyche hospitals over there (if they did exist). Makes execution look awful tempting.
Question: If democracy is forced upon people, is it still democratic?

]]> By: Keith H. http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-484984 Keith H. Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:22:17 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-484984 <i>And it’s important for the government of Afghanistan to reaffirm the <b>bedrock principles</b> in that constitution, one of which is freedom of religion.</i> Scotty may have somethin' here. Aren't the 'Bedrock Principles' those that are used where Fred Flinstone live? Sounds like junior may have had a 10 watt bulb go off in that empty space twixt his chimp-like ears. And it’s important for the government of Afghanistan to reaffirm the bedrock principles in that constitution, one of which is freedom of religion.

Scotty may have somethin’ here.
Aren’t the ‘Bedrock Principles’ those that are used where Fred Flinstone live?
Sounds like junior may have had a 10 watt bulb go off in that empty space twixt his chimp-like ears.

]]> By: Jay Randal http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-484916 Jay Randal Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:25:39 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-484916 Afghan Religious Leaders are demanding the death of the Islamic man who converted to Christianity today! Karzai is so weak that people spit on him now! This whole event proves that Bush is a phony Christian and most likely the Anti-Christ that the New Testament Bible warned us about > the man of perdition and sin who loves war?! Afghan Religious Leaders are demanding the death of the Islamic man who converted to Christianity today! Karzai is so weak that people spit on him now! This whole event proves that Bush is a phony Christian and most likely the Anti-Christ that the New Testament Bible warned us about > the man of perdition and sin who loves war?!

]]> By: roundup http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-484913 roundup Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:18:25 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-484913 #9, read somewhere (can't remember where) that hundreds of thousands of christians have fled Irag due to violence shown toward them. #9, read somewhere (can’t remember where) that hundreds of thousands of christians have fled Irag due to violence shown toward them.

]]> By: LC Liberal http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-484907 LC Liberal Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:03:19 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-484907 Why should anyone in the Bush Administration know about the Afghan Constitution? If they don't read anything, how are they supposed to know what's going on? This is similar to their constant refrains that Iraq isn't in a civil war. This is yet more attempts to brainwash Americans into believeing that all is well in Iraq and Afghanistan. The BA must realize the obvious, then deal with it. Constantly denying clear facts is a hallmark of these guys. www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com Most Ridiculous Story of the Day: Right Now on LCL Why should anyone in the Bush Administration know about the Afghan Constitution? If they don’t read anything, how are they supposed to know what’s going on? This is similar to their constant refrains that Iraq isn’t in a civil war. This is yet more attempts to brainwash Americans into believeing that all is well in Iraq and Afghanistan. The BA must realize the obvious, then deal with it. Constantly denying clear facts is a hallmark of these guys.

http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
Most Ridiculous Story of the Day: Right Now on LCL

]]> By: MagnumDB http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-484729 MagnumDB Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:55:47 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-484729 <blockquote>KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) -- Senior Muslim clerics are demanding that an Afghan man on trial for converting from Islam to Christianity be executed... "Rejecting Islam is insulting God. We will not allow God to be humiliated. This man must die," said cleric Abdul Raoulf.</blockquote> Since there are a lot of Americans who reject Islam, does that mean they still want to kill Americans?

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — Senior Muslim clerics are demanding that an Afghan man on trial for converting from Islam to Christianity be executed… “Rejecting Islam is insulting God. We will not allow God to be humiliated. This man must die,” said cleric Abdul Raoulf.

Since there are a lot of Americans who reject Islam, does that mean they still want to kill Americans?

]]> By: bs http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-484697 bs Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:11:11 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-484697 keep on, keepin' on with the double talk!! keep on, keepin’ on with the double talk!!

]]> By: Cyra Brown http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-484678 Cyra Brown Fri, 24 Mar 2006 03:18:36 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/23/afghan-constitution-myth/#comment-484678 Where are Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, and Billy Grahm, and all of the other "Holier Than Thou" crowd? Why aren't they calling for the Bush Administration to rescue this man? Why doesn't GWB ask that Karzai send this man to America, where he would be "free" to practice whatever religion he wants, without fear of prosecution? It would be the "christian" thing to do, wouldn't it? Where are Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, and Billy Grahm, and all of the other “Holier Than Thou” crowd? Why aren’t they calling for the Bush Administration to rescue this man? Why doesn’t GWB ask that Karzai send this man to America, where he would be “free” to practice whatever religion he wants, without fear of prosecution? It would be the “christian” thing to do, wouldn’t it?

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