McClellan On British Memo: Bush’s Public and Private Iraq Statements Were ‘Fully Consistent’
McClellan On British Memo: Bush’s Public and Private Iraq Statements Were ‘Fully Consistent’
Today, the New York Times reports on a previously-disclosed British memo that states Bush had decided by late January 2003 — nearly seven weeks prior to the invasion — that he was going to war. In today’s White House press briefing, Scott McClellan claimed this report was “fully consistent” with what President Bush was saying in the lead-up to war:
This was a meeting that took place back in January of 2003. Even if I know exactly what was said in that meeting, I wouldn’t get into discussing private conversations between world leaders like this. Again, I reiterate to you: The comments that we are making publicly and privately are fully consistent with one another.
Were Bush’s public comments consistent with his private desire in January 2003 to begin the military campaign? We report, you decide.
Public statement:
Bush: “I’ve not made up our mind about military action. Hopefully, this can be done peacefully.†[3/6/03]
Private statement
“The start date for the military campaign was now penciled in for 10 March,” Mr. Manning wrote, paraphrasing the president. “This was when the bombing would begin.” [Bush/Blair meeting, 1/31/03]
Public statement:
Bush: “We are doing everything we can to avoid war in Iraq.†[3/8/03]
Private statement:
“The U.S. was thinking of flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft with fighter cover over Iraq, painted in U.N. colours,” the memo says, attributing the idea to Mr. Bush. “If Saddam fired on them, he would be in breach.” [Bush/Blair meeting, 1/31/03]
Public statement:
Bush: “Should Saddam Hussein choose confrontation, the American people can know that every measure has been taken to avoid war, and every measure will be taken to win it.†[3/17/03]
Private statement:
“But [Bush] had to say that if we ultimately failed [to get a second U.N. resolution], military action would follow anyway.” [Bush/Blair meeting, 1/31/03]
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Sadly the right wingers don’t believe the downing street memo, and the other piles of evidence, so I doubt that this post will sway any ones mind. Once you have decided to ignore facts it is difficult to come back.
March 27th, 2006 at 2:05 pmI have a feeling that right wing neo-conservatives will respond to this bit of news by only jamming their fingers in their ears deeper, shutting their eyes tighter, and humming “Hail to the Chief” much louder.
March 27th, 2006 at 2:07 pmI wouldn’t get into discussing private conversations between world leaders like this.
Doesn’t the privacy of this conversation end when it is reported in the New York Times?
March 27th, 2006 at 2:10 pmI lie, then I lie to cover up my lie, then I lie to cover up my second set of lies. That is what this administration calls consistency!!
March 27th, 2006 at 2:19 pmOkay, it’s common knowledge now that junior wanted war, and was going to have it, no matter the consequence.
March 27th, 2006 at 2:28 pmIf our own Country refuses to treat him like the criminal that he is, maybe some different ones will.
Sadly the right wingers don’t believe the downing street memo…
Comment by Krazny — March 27, 2006 @ 2:05 pm
This is not the Downing Steet Memo. This is a new document, and its authinticity has been confirmed by “two senior British official.” Not that that will change any right wingers minds, but maybe it will sway some moderates?
If notheing else it will get more air time than the Downing Street Memo just because of Bush’s incredibly low poll numbers. The national press is starting to loose their fear of Bush… I guess maybe they are finally starting to realize that liberals watch the news too.
March 27th, 2006 at 2:28 pmThey are consistently lying.
March 27th, 2006 at 2:30 pmAgain, I reiterate to you: The comments that we are making publicly and privately are fully consistent with one another.
And by this I mean, when all those times before that I lied through my teeth to you or told half-truths, I’m consistently doing the same thing right now, too.
March 27th, 2006 at 2:30 pmWhat more do you need? itmfa!
March 27th, 2006 at 2:34 pmScotty is right Bush was consistent…consistenly lieing.
March 27th, 2006 at 2:38 pm“Following the example set by prezident bush, I will lie my ass off to keep the 34% behind us all the way!”
March 27th, 2006 at 2:42 pm#2 - I agree, but the song is actually “Hail to the Thief”.
March 27th, 2006 at 2:54 pmThey actually were thinking of starting the war with the U2… :) I love that.
Also, I love how it would have been a U2 and not a more modern, valuable, or hard to detect aircraft.
Bathrooms
March 27th, 2006 at 2:58 pmRockets
They are absolutely consistent in lying, not only to Americans, but to the whole world.
March 27th, 2006 at 2:58 pmTo access the NY Times coverage of the British memo, the latest Iraq intel news, the Downing Street memos, the Senate Intel report, the Silbermann-Robb Commission report and other key documents, see:
March 27th, 2006 at 3:01 pm“The Iraq/WMD Intelligence Resource Center.”
“Plan” and “Contingency Plan” - a concept foreign to progs.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:03 pm“I wasn’t lying, I wasn’t lying about lying, and I’m not currently lying about lying about lying, so there!”
When a person’s words and their deeds to not agree with each other, then trust their deeds to find the truth of what they’re doing.
They lied about the reasons for the war, they lied about how long we would be in the country, they lied about how much money it would cost, and now they’re lying about all the previous lies.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:04 pmA bit off topic, but did anyone else experience about 15 min of this site being down starting around 2:20ish?
March 27th, 2006 at 3:04 pm#16 - “Plan” Lie our way into a war because we want the oil!
“Contingency Plan” when the public finds out about our lies to get oil, call them un-patriotic and un-American.
Nope, I think we fully understand the concepts between the two.
Something that ultra-radical right wing-nuts done understand the concept of: hubris.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:07 pmIf the NYT has reviewed the whole document, why can’t they make it public for us to read? Is it some sort of criminal act that I’m unaware of that allows the press to read it and then report on it, but not provide it to the public?
March 27th, 2006 at 3:13 pm“A bit off topic, but did anyone else experience about 15 min of this site being down starting around 2:20ish?’ Comment by squegeeboo —
March 27th, 2006 at 3:14 pm*****Shhhh…that was the NSA planting the monitoring devices necessary to keep tabs on the global patriots here at TP - that is until they’re hauled off to an ice flow. Is that where the paranoid conspiracy theorists think the evil “facist Repubs” are going to store the moonbats????
70% of the Troops serving in Iraq understand that they have been lied to. The other 30% simply enjoy killing babies.
Those who continue to support this war and Resident are among the 30% who in my opinion should be put in a jail cell for the remainder of their lives.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:15 pmYou should have read this:
http://www.time.com/ time/ covers/ 0,16641,1101030331,00.html
March 27th, 2006 at 3:16 pmDemSoldier - I am glad the “contingency” plan for the invasion of Japan did not need to materialize - the projected civilian and military death tolls were exponentially greater than those who were killed at Hiroshima and Nagaski. But you knew that….
March 27th, 2006 at 3:17 pm““Plan†and “Contingency Plan†- a concept foreign to progs.
Comment by mighty aphrodite ”
Truth not lies, a concept foreign to reichwing fascists.
Come to make more easily debunked claim today Mighty Moron? You sure are persistent for someone so inadequate and ineffective.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:17 pmMy favorite exchange was actually this:
Nice. If anyone ever talks about official U.S. policy concerning Iraq, I’m just going to have to say, “I don’t know what you’re referring to there.”
March 27th, 2006 at 3:18 pmI think what he meant was that their intent was consistent, even when their statements were not. They had always intended to overthrow the enemy to freedom.
Are we clear? No? Great! We’d hate to give aid to the enemy. Or the voters, for that matter, who don’t have the knowledge we do that they are actually aiding the enemy, whether they realize it or not. Which they don’t know. So, they don’t know what they don’t know, which is both bad, and good.
Freedom is on the march, and an army marches on it’s stomach - fry up another batch of freedom fries!
March 27th, 2006 at 3:19 pm#2
Here is their theme….
BATTLE HYMN OF THE REPUBLICANS
Mine Eyes have seen the bungling of that stumbling moron Bush;
he has blathered all the drivel that the neo-cons can push;
he has lost sight of all reason ‘cause his head is up his tush;
The Doofus marches on.
I have heard him butcher syntax like a kindergarten fool;
There is warranted suspicion that he never went to school;
Should we fault him for the policies – or is he just their tool?
The lies keep piling on.
Glory! Glory! How he’ll Screw Ya’!
Glory! Glory! How he’ll Screw Ya’!
Glory! Glory! How he’ll Screw Ya’!
His wreckage will live on.
I have seen him cut the taxes of the billionaires’ lone heir;
As he spends another zillion on an aircraft carrier;
Let the smokestacks keep polluting – do we really need clean air?
The surplus is now gone.
Glory! Glory! How he’ll Screw Ya’!
Glory! Glory! How he’ll Screw Ya’!
Glory! Glory! How he’ll Screw Ya’!
Your safety net is gone!
Now he’s got a mighty hankerin’ to bomb a prostrate state;
Though the whole world knows its crazy – and the U.N. says to wait;
When he doesn’t have the evidence, “We must prevaricate.â€
Diplomacy is done!
Oh, a trumped-up war is excellent; we have no moral bounds;
Should the reasons be disputed, we’ll just make up other grounds;
Enraging several billions – to his brainlessness redounds;
The Doofus marches on!
Glory! Glory! How he’ll Screw Ya’!
March 27th, 2006 at 3:19 pmGlory! Glory! How he’ll Screw Ya’!
Glory! Glory! How he’ll Screw Ya’!
THIS …. DOOOO …. FUSS …. MAR…CHES….ON!
Maybe, just maybe the Downing Street Minutes will get some air time.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:20 pm#28, RIGHT ON!
March 27th, 2006 at 3:20 pmMA,
once again you seek to derail debate. your statements, have nothing to do with the thread. Unless you mean our “plan is to lie that Iraq has WMD’s and Saddam orderedd Al Qaeda to attack us on 9/11″. and if people find out that is a bunch of lies then our “contigency plan is to tell the american public that this is about freeing the Iraqi people and establishing democracy”.
Please use logic and facts to point out how Bush’s statements are consistent
March 27th, 2006 at 3:21 pmThese are not the documents you’re looking for…
March 27th, 2006 at 3:23 pm#30…thanks Sue.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:24 pmPlease use logic and facts to point out how Bush’s statements are consistent
Comment by Krazny
That would require there to be any logic and facts regarding Bush’s statements.
It’s kinda like saying, “Hey, Bush told me that I can build myself a house, but all I have here is a carrot, a badger, and a piece of string. But I really believe that could build the house, so here I go.”
March 27th, 2006 at 3:26 pmI have been looking for the text of the memo since The Guardian first reported this, and I still haven’t been able to locate anything on the web.
The closest I’ve ever got to the actual text comes from Channel 4 News who states they have seen the memo, and have extensive coverage on their web site:
Channel 4 News has seen minutes from that meeting, which took place in the White House on 31 January 2003. The two leaders discussed the possibility of securing further UN support, but President Bush made it clear that he had already decided to go to war. The details are contained in a new version of the book ‘Lawless World’ written by a leading British human rights lawyer, Philippe Sands QC.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:27 pmChannel 4: Special Report - The White House memo
To any lawyers in the house…
Is there any law that this lying bastard is breaking by continually lying to the American public in such a blatant manner? I know there is no law against bald face lying but is there a law - any law - that a DA could use to bring charges against McClellan? Fraud? Anything? I am seriously asking.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:27 pmWhy would we think that. We are the ones that know that global warming is real and is causing the polar ice caps to melt.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:27 pm#24 - Sweetie, trust me when I say I’m very glad we never had to go with the contingency plan in WW-II. I studied military history at both the military academy I attended as well as at the Pentagon when I was on active duty. There’s an old military axiom that the battle plan never survives contact with the enemy.
Considering that Pres. Bush was damned and determined to attack Iraq no matte how much or how little pretext he had for going to war, I never thought there was a “contingency plan†for Iraq. It was always “We’re going to warâ€, first plan, middle plan, final plan, and only option. The only question was: how long will it take to actually start the conflict?
Once we were in Afghanistan, it was too much of a temptation for Pres. Bush to NOT go to war in Iraq.
Here’s a question for you: what do you think the “contingency plan†for Iraq would have been if we had needed one? Well, other than trying to put lipstick on the “pig†of a war we’ve currently got going over there?
March 27th, 2006 at 3:31 pmSome entity needs to produce a political ad showing Bush supposedly agonizing about whether or not to invade Iraq. There were many pictures and video tapes produced in March showing how thoughtful he was being. We know now that these were all lies. In fact, the political ad should be entitled “The Liar-In-Chief” and expose Bush’s actions months before the invasion which clearly demonstrate that a decision had already been made. Also, the ad could end with a picture of Bush and a question: “Would you trust this person to save Social Security?”
March 27th, 2006 at 3:34 pm#18, yes, I had quite a problem with the TP site around the same time, although I doubt that Aphrodite’s reason is the correct one.
Aphrodite, Spudge_Boy is right, ice floes will be a thing of the past shortly. What are moonbats? Maybe they’ll fit on an ice cube instead.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:35 pmI guess my point was that if this Anti-American idiot were subject to legal ramifications it might give him, and other future representative mouthpieces that would gladly lie, pause. I know it would be next to impossible to prove that he knowingly lies (thinking of the “Karl Rove assured me…” but all the same these people in this administration have absolutely zero conscience and seem to be able to lie to the American people without consequence - it is simply ridiculous.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:36 pm#37 Thats why we would put the moonbats there, once it melts, problem solved for us. And if it dosn’t melt, then you’d have to admit that global warming isn’t as big a deal as you make out.
#40 Moonbats definition from google: an all-purpose insult for modern liberals, peace protestors, and other ideological opponents. It is similar to the epithets Feminazi or Idiotarian.
So its a term us righties use to insult the left, sorta like your guys repugs, or any Fascist type comment.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:39 pm#39 - What good would it do? Pres. Bush has been released form the constraints of re-election, and no longer has to worry about the American public agreeing with any of his actions.
What WOULD be a good advert is to publish all his lies and inconsistent statements since he’s been in office, and say: Pres. Bush lied about the extent of his deficit spending, will you support a Senator/Representative that agreed with him on this? Pres. Bush lied about the cost of Medi-Scare and the War in Iraq, will you support a Senator/Representative that agreed with him on this?
The only hope that Americans have is to throw out the rubber-stamp Republican congress members and replace them with ones that will ask the hard questions. We don’t have to impeach Pres. Bush (no matter how much he deserves it), all we have to do is de-rail his attempt at shredding the Constitution and turn back his over spending and inability to balance the budget even once. The tax cuts for the rich & powerful would only make sense if the national credit card weren’t already maxed out.
At some point you have to pay for your past, and it’s time and past time for Americans to bear some of the burden that Pres. Bush has been drastically increasing in our names.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:41 pmyou forgot Troll, though in defense of real Trolls at least you know there a troll when you see them. republican trolls are more like serial killers, they look like everyone else.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:43 pm#16 that would be nice to believe if Bush and the whole republican establishment had not sold the public on the idea that contingency plans are (take your pick) waffeling, showing a lack of resolve, showing disrespect to the men and women who have served, a cut and run proposition, not an option, not in the national interest etc… you get the picture. This administration never has contingency plans because if they di it would make it appear that they are thinking and trying to make the best decision and we know that you rightwing moon bat, fringe dweller do not like the idea of contemplation.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:44 pm#42 - You mean it’s sorta like the term “chicken-hawk” to describe someone who’s more than happy for our country to go to war, just so long as they don’t personally have to do the fighting or pay the price for the war?
You know, like all the Republican congress members who either never served or have no family member in the service? Like Pres. Bush never successfully completed his term of service? Like how none of the right-wing talking heads ever served?
March 27th, 2006 at 3:48 pm#46 So does that mean I have to be a police officer, or a fire fighter, or an EMT or a teacher to support any of those professions? Or does it only work when you guys feel like applying the standard?
March 27th, 2006 at 3:58 pmI’d rather be a moonbat, than a dictator defender. Lower polls, more trolls.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:00 pmno Squegeeboo it means put your money where your mouth is, and go enlist. If Iraq is as great as you say then it will be fine, and you will get to see your family in a year or so.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:01 pm#43 It is of utmost importance to continue to lessen Bush’s credibility. In doing so you fracture his support in Congress which will put a stop to his radical agenda. The idiot mentioned this month that he was going back to Congress with his Social Security reform because the people didn’t grasp his vision.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:01 pmHe changed his mind and decided to spend his political capitol on the iraq war. Unless he is just going to try to quitly push the SS thing through. aint smoke and mirrors great.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:03 pmKrazny
that was my point, if I should have to step up and enlist to prove my support, then if you support people like police officers, etc, by your logic you should have to join those orginizations.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:06 pm“#40 Moonbats definition from google: an all-purpose insult for modern liberals, peace protestors, and other ideological opponents. It is similar to the epithets Feminazi or Idiotarian. squishypoop”
Bats can see with their eyes closed, as opposed to reichwing fascists that can’t see anything that’s right in front of their eyes. This ‘insult’ sounds like another ‘freudian’ compliment from people who are too stupid to see the truth.
As for a ‘feminazi’, you need to look no further than Ann Coulter, or Mighty Aphrodite to see a great example of this in the real world. They claim to be ‘femi’, but they’re mainly ‘nazi’. And the ‘idiotarian’ couldn’t be a more apt description of the unthinking, unscientific, unrational and undocumented rants of the reichwing spin machine.
Funny how the reichwing slurs better fit the reichwing better than they realize.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:06 pm#47 - No, it doesn’t. The difference is that we’re not suffering from a bunch of politicians who want to rush to send our police officers into war. They’re not trying to send our fire fighters to war. They’re not trying to send our EMT or teachers to war over oil.
It’s our service members who are having their lives put on the line by a bunch of politicians who had the opportunity to serve, but came up with super-lame excuses for not having done their patriotic duty.
Now, lets go back and cover the definition of “chicken hawk”:
March 27th, 2006 at 4:07 pmSomeone who is more than happy to send other people to die for a war, but when they personally had the chance to put their life on the line, decided to cut & run like the “chicken hawks” they truly are.
“that was my point, if I should have to step up and enlist to prove my support, then if you support people like police officers, etc, by your logic you should have to join those orginizations.
Comment by squishypoop”
You ‘people’ always claim to support the military, but so few of you will put your money where your mouth is. It’s called ‘hypocrisy’, something always expressed but seemingly never understood by the reichwing. Kind of like how you claim to be ‘moral’, while accepting bribes, and brutally torturing and murdering others.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:08 pm#52 - So, what you’re saying is that you can support or oppose something and never have any experience doing what it is you support or oppose.
Kind of like a bunch of Republican politicians lambasting Pres. Clinton over having sex outside of marriage even when they never did it themselves. (Except for Gingrich who was banging his staffer while married to his wife while attacking Pres. Clinton.)
Kind of like a bunch of Democratic politicians lambasting Pres. Bush over his failed policies when they’ve never served as a President.
Kind of like you saying I shouldn’t be able to critique the war for oil, even though I spent four years in the Army. Oh, wait. That one doesn’t meet your criteria.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:15 pmThats why we would put the moonbats there, once it melts, problem solved for us. And if it dosn’t melt, then you’d have to admit that global warming isn’t as big a deal as you make out.
Excellent approach, Squeege. Instead of fixing the problem before we have a global disaster, let’s do it after!
All to try to prove us horrible moonbats wrong.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:16 pmI should have to step up and enlist to prove my support, then if you support people like police officers, etc, by your logic you should have to join those orginizations.
Comment by squegeeboo — March 27, 2006 @ 4:06 pm
Bad logic and analogy.
A better analogy would be you itching to send a police officer or a firefighter into harm’s way for no good reason, and then -when people question your decision- telling them “why don’t you support the police/firefighters? If you supported them, you’d join and be harmed for no good reason too”.
Why do you want the troops harmed, while you stay cozily at home?
March 27th, 2006 at 4:16 pm#54 So then does “chicken hawk” only apply to the politicans that have made those decisions, or also the general populace that voted them in?
Take this for example:
March 27th, 2006 at 4:17 pmThere is an armed robbery, and the police chief sends in a swat team, some of them get hurt or die. The chief is not a chicken hawk because he has already served his time in the police to get to where he is. But the population that voted him into office has never served as officers, so are they chicken hawks?
Not true SB
Fact: none of the most outspoken proponents of the Iraq war including GW Bush Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Limbaugh, that Mike Savage guy etc have ever seen combat, and most of them have never been in the military, or have children in active duty.
Fact: these same men have sent our soldiers off to fight in Iraq for a number of reasons, none of which are very credible.
Soldiers, police officers, and firefighters server their country and communites for because of duty and honor. They know the risks they run, and do their duty anyway. In this case, our soldiers have been placed into harms way in Iraq, because bush wants to be a war time president, or because he wants to enact the PNAC plan, or he is just plain batshit insane. You continue to defend him as a “man of courage and conviction”
. My logic says that if you feel that he is doing the right thing then go enlist and get your skinny ass shot up, but don’t expect any Rush Limbaugh’s kids, or mike Savage’s kids to be getting to be watching your back.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:19 pmwhat is PNAC?
March 27th, 2006 at 4:22 pm“#54 So then does “chicken hawk†only apply to the politicans that have made those decisions, or also the general populace that voted them in? squishypoop”
It applies to anyone who vigorously argues that ‘war’ is the right choice, but refuses to make the personal sacrifices to back up this opinion. The expression is don’t write checks with your mouth, that your a$$ can’t cash.
And your analogy is retarded - just like you are. ‘Just don’t get it’ is an understatement for you. ‘Incapable of getting it’ is more accurate.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:24 pmProject for the New American Century (PNAC)
link to homepage here:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
they basically stated in like 98 or earlier that the US needed to control Iraq, Iran, and Syria, and that it would take a “new Pearl Harbor” to get the American public to go to war.
I will see if I can find the quote in the document. It was signed by many in the white house today.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:25 pm“what is PNAC?
Comment by squishypoop”
Yeah, you can play dumb all you want, but we just know that stems from your retarded and freakish desire to ‘play with the liberals’. You’re like a page from Coulter’s play book. A very RETARDED page.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:25 pmthe “new pearl harbor” is a direct quote.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:26 pmSqueege -
Thanks for this one, it’s easy.
There is an armed robbery,
Your analogy for the war in Iraq.
and the police chief sends in a swat team,
Bush sends in the army. Of course, your events are backwards. It’s more like “the police chief sends in a swat team, and there is an armed robbery”
some of them get hurt or die.
Yup. Lots. And 10 times more innocent people who were at the bank minding their own business going about their daily lives.
The chief is not a chicken hawk because he has already served his time in the police to get to where he is.
Bush kinda serving in the National Guard is serving his time. If that police chief had the equivelant experience, he wouldn’t be qualified to make decisions like that.
But the population that voted him into office has never served as officers, so are they chicken hawks?
Nope, they’re easily misled and some are unable to admit a mistake.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:26 pmKrazny,
Squishypoop is playing ‘toy with the liberals’. It’s why the more psychotic and unbalanced members of PNAC do for fun. It’s part of the Coulter’s method of believing they’re ‘birds of prey’, when in fact they’re vultures.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:27 pmOoops:
In 66, the line “Bush kinda serving in the National Guard is serving his time” is missing an important negative.
It should read “Bush kinda serving in the National Guard is NOT serving his time”
March 27th, 2006 at 4:29 pmRyan,
I have to disagree with you vultures serve a purpose, he is more like an appendix.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:30 pm28- F’ing brilliant!!!
March 27th, 2006 at 4:31 pmSo: What did the two leaders say when they completed their meeting and went out to meet the press that day?
Excerpts from the transcript of their brief press conference at E & P
The secret Downing Street memo
March 27th, 2006 at 4:33 pm#59 - Not the best comparison. The action by the SWAT team lasted how long? A few hours? A day at most? The war for oil has lasted over three years and Pres. Bush said our soldiers will be over there until after 2008.
What we’re talking about is a prolonged action and occupation where our soldiers have to put their lives on the line for what? WMD’s? The ones we were promised existed but have never found a single one? To bring democracy to Iraq, even though we won’t support the citizens if they elect a Muslim hard-liner? To free them from the reign of Saddam Hussein, a man who hates Osama bin Laden? A man that Saudi Arabia called anti-Muslim for allowing women to work and own property and vote?
I think you need to put on glasses that work, and re-read my definition. You seem to be experiencing a disconnect from the definition I provided and the propaganda that you’ve been told in which to believe.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:35 pmGlobal warming isn’t a big deal? I sure hope God isn’t listening to what the facists are saying about HIS planet. If he created it, why on earth would you not care for it? You are such dipshits that you care about nothing but yourself. You are going to hell for slaughtering God’s planet that he made for YOU. Is that how you repay your creator? You are as scummy as it gets. You are filled with hate for many of God’s creatures, contempt for the poor who God specifically mentioned for you to care about, and now shit on God’s planet.
What kind of Christian lets entire species die while eating a Whopper. You folks are unGodly and uncaring. You will get just what you deserve. I’m sure you live your life as Jesus asked of you, right?
It is amazing just how stupid you all are. You want creationism taught and then want to destroy what you say has been made for you - PIG.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:41 pmBush vs. Bush…
What happens when the most powerful man in the whole world decides to fight himself?
March 27th, 2006 at 4:52 pmAccording to Scott McClellan (a.k.a. ScottyBot), the president’s media rep, everything the president said publicly about the Iraq war matched what was said priva…
#72 I get your definition, just don’t agree with it, but that will happen. Thanks for your view on it.
Ryan I’m not “playing ‘toy with the liberals’.” I am learning about the liberal position much better than I could from a republican blog, this way I have a more balanced view, both the left and the right, in addition to the news sources I read from, to build my opinion from. As opposed to blindly insulting people, I try and learn.
March 27th, 2006 at 5:12 pm“Ryan I’m not “playing ‘toy with the liberals’.†I am learning about the liberal position much better than I could from a republican blog, this way I have a more balanced view, both the left and the right, in addition to the news sources I read from, to build my opinion from. As opposed to blindly insulting people, I try and learn. squishypoop”
If that were you goal, you could accomplish it without spreading propaganda. Read, and STFU, and you might learn something moron.
And I read ‘reichwing’ blogs as well, the difference is that I don’t trash them (not that they would permit it anyway) the way you and the other trolltards do here.
Grow up moron, and learn something. You support a fascist regime, that is the spawn of Leo Strauss - an authentic Nazi. Your administration are ‘core’ supporters of his philosophy, and the ‘NeoCon’ movement is a NeoNazi movement. By your complicitous actions and general ignorance you support fascism and nazism.
Do you even know what fascism and nazism stand for? Or are you one of the retards who thinks they were ‘left wing’? You’re a fascist based on your posts, and you’re too stupid to know it.
March 27th, 2006 at 5:25 pm“#72 I get your definition, just don’t agree with it, but that will happen. Thanks for your view on it. squishypoop”
Sorry, but if reichwingers get to make up words and decide their meanings - you’ve got no choice but to accept the definition. Your ‘compliance’ is not required, since this is a generally accepted term.
And in typical ‘reichwing’ fashion, your ‘view’ isn’t really relevant - just as your opinions aren’t.
March 27th, 2006 at 5:28 pm“All this Democracy, voting, constitutional rights, worrying about what the people want, trying to keep the populus satisfied crap is dragging down my mission here”
Unknown writer.
March 27th, 2006 at 5:28 pmWith all the planning for the war in Iraq (capabilities become intentions) there was little planning for the aftermath. According to Gen Garner,he was tasked with a March event in February. (SIGIR Section 2207 report,10/31/05)
March 27th, 2006 at 5:30 pmI know everybody has already tried GWB for the decision,but planning by the Pentagon for the invasion (starting in the summer of 02) made sense. If they were going to send in the troops,better to have made some plans than no plans.
Bush is a feckless turd. Bush is a feckless turd. Bush is a feckless turd. Bush is a feckless turd. Bush is a feckless turd. Bush is a feckless turd. Bush is a feckless turd. Bush is a feckless turd. Bush is a feckless turd. Bush is a feckless turd. Bush is a feckless turd.
March 27th, 2006 at 5:36 pmjeeze Ryan, seems like your the one using facist tactics, such as attempts to intimidate here, not me, but I know they were right wing movements, just like communism is a left wing movement. Any extension to far in either direction ends up badly.
As to my views not being relevant, seems like the right is currently controlling politics, not the left.
Ever been to rightwingnews? All sorts of liberal view points in his comments section, and saddly their are people like you on the right also, that apparently feel so threatened by an opposing viewpoint your only defense is to insult them.
And congrats, I had planned on ignoring you, but stupidly I feel the need to respond to your personal attacks, which will probably just make you act worse, like usual.
March 27th, 2006 at 5:41 pmDem Soldier - Were you as patronizing at the Pentagon as you are in this thread - no wonder you’re not there any longer(??)…but thank you for your service.
March 27th, 2006 at 5:53 pmCan you imaginge the open honest debate in a classroom with “that other one” playing teacher - STFU, you moron kids!!!”
March 27th, 2006 at 5:56 pm“Can you imaginge the open honest debate in a classroom with “that other one†playing teacher - STFU, you moron kids!!!â€
Comment by mighty aphrodite ”
Considering the ‘parenting’ tips you’ve given others, this is quite ironic coming from you mighty moron. Then again, another point of hypocrisy spewed from you is nothing new. Wasn’t it you that claimed ’spare the rod spoils the child’? Well when you and squishypoop stop acting like an ignorant SFB brat, I’ll stop treating you like one.
March 27th, 2006 at 5:58 pm“jeeze Ryan, seems like your the one using facist tactics, such as attempts to intimidate here, not me, but I know they were right wing movements, just like communism is a left wing movement. Any extension to far in either direction ends up badly. squishypoop”
That’s true, but you aren’t being censored are you freeptard? Your inability to distinguish the difference from criticism of your stupidity and prevention of your posting is exactly the sort of RETARD response I expect out of you. And you’re correct that veering too far to the right is dangerous, and that’s EXACTLY what’s happened.
“As to my views not being relevant, seems like the right is currently controlling politics, not the left. squishypoop”
Then go over post your propaganda crap on your rightwing site where it belongs.
“Ever been to rightwingnews? All sorts of liberal view points in his comments section, and saddly their are people like you on the right also, that apparently feel so threatened by an opposing viewpoint your only defense is to insult them. squishypoop”
Go to Malkin, Powerline or freerepublic and see how much ‘dissent’ is allowed. You’re a fool.
I insult you because you’re a FOOL who posts retarded posts - and not because I’m ‘threatened’ by you. You have a nice set of forums where you can dance in a line of lemmings all you want, go help yourself. You however seem so threatened by liberals that you must venture here to post your crap.
“And congrats, I had planned on ignoring you, but stupidly I feel the need to respond to your personal attacks, which will probably just make you act worse, like usual. squishypoop”
Stop acting stupid, and ‘playing dumb’ while doing so, and I’ll stop attacking you.
If you truly wish to ‘learn’, then shut up and listen, or ask honest and relevant questions. Otherwise you’re just another freeptard troll derailing threads because of your psychotic need to squash dissent.
March 27th, 2006 at 6:04 pmI am glad the “contingency†plan for the invasion of Japan did not need to materialize - the projected civilian and military death tolls were exponentially greater than those who were killed at Hiroshima and Nagaski. But you knew that….
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Mighty Hypocrite,
March 27th, 2006 at 6:14 pmSince your comment above is already off-thread, let me add that in actuality more Japanese were killed in the massive fire-bombings of large cities like Tokyo in March 1945 than in the A-bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The big difference is that the survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, including babies in their mothers’ womb at the time, still suffer from the after-effects of radiation disease.
“Ever been to rightwingnews? squishypoop”
Is this why the following is posted in rightwingnews?
Note, by the rightwingnews standards you would have already been banned for your ‘off topic’ postings and general trolling.
In the MONTHS I’ve posted her Judd has only banned 3 people, 2 of whom continue to post after the ban was lifted. That leaves a total of ONE person who’s been completely banned from posting - PERIOD.
And rightwingnews is probably the most ‘generous’ site of the reichwing. Whereas liberal sites constantly deal with a barrage of you whacko propaganda spewing, lie posting, moronic hate mongers.
March 27th, 2006 at 6:15 pmLora,
Mighty Moron sounds like something Osama would say. I bet he’s thinking the same justifications for using WMDs that (s)he is. Funny how the ‘reichwing’ thinks alike, no matter what their ‘religious’ differences are.
March 27th, 2006 at 6:17 pmBack on topic.
It depends on what the meaning of the word “are” is.
Note that McClellan does not say the public and private statements always WERE consistent.
March 27th, 2006 at 6:23 pmIt’s probably already been noted, but the only way in which this administration’s comments are “consistent” is that you can’t believe any of them.
March 27th, 2006 at 6:34 pmTime for a new meme. Pick your dialect.
George got him a War Boner.
March 27th, 2006 at 6:36 pmGeorge has a War Boner.
W be gettin’ a War Boner.
Ryan
“If you truly wish to ‘learn’, then shut up and listen, or ask honest and relevant questions.”
Yet you have left these two unanswered: My posts #20 and #61, as for forcing things off topic, all I did was define Moonbat for a liberal who asked, you guys then made the chickenhawk reference, and even that stayed political until you felt the need to try and derail all you could by slinging insults.
If you read RWN and its comments at all, you would see that as long as it stays political derailments are generally allowed, and due to trying to keep it clean, people as offensive as you would be banned so the rest of us could continue a civil discourse on politics.
Seeing how as conservative view points are in the minority on this site, it would be you attempting to squash my dissent, not the other way around.
Also please notice that when I copy your sections I have the common decency not to make a petty, childish joke of your name. And yet I am the one who is childish according to you.
March 27th, 2006 at 7:45 pmPeople keep missing the point. Getting Saddam was never about just the oil. Schrub was bound and determined to avenge the assasination attempt on Daddy Bush. Hell, had he admitted that, I think his poll numbers would not be as abysmal as they are. People understand revenge. It’s why America is the only Democratic industrial nation that still has a death penalty, even for minors. Of course, Schrub’s history is filled with incompetence, so it is no wonder he has gotten everything wrong. He’s never made an honest living prior to politics, (every business venture went bust) so why are people so surprised he’s still incompetent?
March 27th, 2006 at 7:59 pmLora- I’m starting to believe you are the type of idiot savant that reads every third or fourth word of a post. (Comprehension is NOT your strong suit.) I WAS NOT DISCUSSING THE BOMBINGS OF JAPANESE CITIES. THE CONTIGENCY PLAN was an alternative to using the atomic weapons which were ul;timately used. Your comments add…..surprisingly (!) nothing to the conversation. My discussing the “plan” and “contingency plan” is a explanation for the point/counter-point of the learned Faiz.
March 27th, 2006 at 8:05 pmsb,
March 27th, 2006 at 8:07 pmYou are as balanced as a house of cards in an earthquake, out in the open, during a tornado.
ma,
You should rent a brain (or a four-year-old advisor) should you want to offer any rational points on this or any thread.
#92 Japan also has the death penalty, and we are a Republic, not a democracy. Our individual states are democractic, but the USA is not.
March 27th, 2006 at 8:08 pmand we are a Republic, not a democracy. Our individual states are democractic, but the USA is not.
Comment by squegeeboo — March 27, 2006 @ 8:08 pm
Main Entry: de·moc·ra·cy
1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
The USA is a democracy -that’s the very reason people in the US vote for a president.
March 27th, 2006 at 8:39 pmHow will the families of the dead and wounded react when the day comes that they must accept the lies that led to war. I believe that many families haven’t been able to accept that their loved one died for a pre-planned lie, so they cling to the notion that there is something higher, more noble for which this war was waged. A grieving family would be desperate for a logical reason and would be willing to accept Bush’s words at face value — but as the truth of it all slowly leaks out, they will have to accept the reality, the horrible and unthinkable reality of why and how they lost their loved one and their lives were changed forever.
March 27th, 2006 at 8:46 pmAs for Bush, I don’t think he feels guilt or remorse — I believe he thinks he is on a divine mission; his God has spoken to him, put him in the White House, and led him to invade Iraq and cause the deaths of thousands. He believes he will be vindicated at the pearly gates.
#28 seen buddy
March 27th, 2006 at 8:51 pmI love it!
#96 we don’t vote on the president, the electoral college does, and as far as I know, there are no states that force the college to vote the will of the population, although that might have changed after Gore lost, and technically, the senate is supposed to represent our states, not the population. So that leaves the House as democratically elected representing the people, while the rest, Supreme Court, Pres, Senate are either not elected by popular vote, or are not representing us.
March 27th, 2006 at 8:59 pmSqueegeepoop,
I see your skills at tracking down information are as weak as those related to looking up words in the dictionary.
There are several excerpts linked here from the document.
Go learn something for a change - NITWIT.
March 27th, 2006 at 8:59 pm“#96 we don’t vote on the president, the electoral college does, and as far as I know, there are no states that force the college to vote the will of the population, although that might have changed after Gore lost, and technically, the senate is supposed to represent our states, not the population. squeegepoop”
Were you always this stupid, or did you have to work at it.
When I vote, I don’t cast a vote for an ‘electoral college’, I vote on the CANDIDATE. The electoral college is just a ‘check’ in the system that permits the government to re-shuffle the votes based on ’state boundaries’ regarding HOW those votes get counted. But a claim that you don’t vote on the president is utterly retarded!
And gore didn’t lose, the supreme court gave bush the victory. Gore wone the popular vote nationally and in florida - but the republicans interfered with that vote and the natural processes around it.
MORON.
March 27th, 2006 at 9:02 pm“So that leaves the House as democratically elected representing the people, while the rest, Supreme Court, Pres, Senate are either not elected by popular vote, or are not representing us. Comment by squishypoop”
The senate isn’t elected by popular vote? Are you utterly retarded? When you get old enough to get on the internet without parental supervision - then consider coming back moron. Right now, you’re just wasting everyone’s time with your stupidity.
March 27th, 2006 at 9:03 pmAh- I see squegee playin’ the antagonist again. Ryan- small taters for you.
Quick question squegee. What is your opinion of Bush’s under-publicized “signing statement” after the official signing of the Patriot Act? No time for a waste of time debate. Just curious what your thoughts are.
P.S. – Did you really not know what the PNAC was?
March 27th, 2006 at 9:23 pmOh- In case you missed it.
http://www.boston.com/ news/ nation/ washington/ articles/ 2006/ 03/ 24/ bush_shuns_patriot_act_requirement/
March 27th, 2006 at 9:44 pmBut, but, but, they tried to kill Daddy!!!!!!”
March 27th, 2006 at 9:51 pm[…] Think Progress goes on to clarify Scott McClellan's claim that both Bush's public and private statements are consistant with one another. But transcripts and documents prove otherwise: […]
March 27th, 2006 at 10:19 pmLora- I’m starting to believe you are the type of idiot savant that reads every third or fourth word of a post. (Comprehension is NOT your strong suit.) I WAS NOT DISCUSSING THE BOMBINGS OF JAPANESE CITIES. THE CONTIGENCY PLAN was an alternative to using the atomic weapons which were ul;timately used. Your comments add…..surprisingly (!) nothing to the conversation. My discussing the “plan†and “contingency plan†is a explanation for the point/counter-point of the learned Faiz.
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Mighty Hypocrite,
March 27th, 2006 at 11:11 pmSince you brought up Japan–a country whose history and culture I know much better than you–, I was merely adding another fact that may have also been taken into consideration when deciding whether to use the A-bomb or the contingency plan. I really don’t need someone with such a poor grasp of English and who tends to use the same little chestnuts in a futile attempt to make his/her points even after they’ve already been disproven to question my intelligence. And, by the way, you never did answer my question of whether you were involved in any petitions concerning Rwanda.
#92 Japan also has the death penalty.
Comment by squegeeboo
To squeegeeboo,
March 27th, 2006 at 11:18 pmIt is true that Japan has the death penalty, however it is never used on juveniles, which used to mean under 20. Nowadays some judges find a gray area between ages 18 and 20 and occasionally mete it out to particularly vicious killers in that age range. The death penalty is also very seldom ordered for someone who has murdered just one person. And don’t take this as my passing judgment on Japan’s practices; I am only stating the facts here.
Another Smoking Gun?…
The New York Times is reporting on yet another confidential British government memo that details a discussion at the White House between President Bush, Prime Minister Tony Blair and senior-level aides on January 31, 2003. In sum, the memo outlines……
March 28th, 2006 at 12:01 amRyan
#101 Way to link to nothing relevant to what I was talking about
#102 Like I said, the electoral college votes for the president. The electoral college does not have to follow the popular vote, and in several cases thru out our nations history they have not. This means that your vote might not matter, depending on who is in the electoral college. The Electoral College, the way the president is elected, is why Gore lost, and it has happened a few other times in history also. The supreme court sided with electoral law, as opposed to the popular vote beacuse we are a country of laws.
#103 I said either not elected popularly, or not representing us, the senate represents the states, not us. There for the second half of the or applies, not the first half, funny thing about or’s it means either A, B or both A and B, in this case it just meant B, way to not understand simple logic.
Wiscoduk
#104 It disgusts me that a president has the power to add little notes to a bill like that, no president should be able to, laws are made by congress, accepted/vetoed by the president, and that is how it should be, and no, until I googled it earlier this evening I had no idea what the PNAC was, however, from reading/posting on this site I now know. Just because I’m conservative (actually a Neo-Libertarian) dosn’t mean I follow Bush blindly.
Lora
March 28th, 2006 at 12:03 am#109 Thanks for the extra info on Japanese capital punishment, was unaware that their minors are under 20, not under 18
we don’t vote on the president, the electoral college does, and as far as I know, there are no states that force the college to vote the will of the population,
Comment by squegeeboo — March 27, 2006 @ 8:59 pm
Yes, that’s why the USA is an indirect democracy…
technically, the senate is supposed to represent our states, not the population.
This sentence makes no sense. Your senator represents your state, but not its people? Further, the people of each state elects their senators -again, the very definition of a democracy.
So that leaves the House as democratically elected representing the people, while the rest, Supreme Court, Pres, Senate are either not elected by popular vote, or are not representing us.
Senators are elected by the people of their state to serve six year terms.
Again, “periodically free-held elections” -the very definition of a democracy.
You didn’t know that you can cast a vote for your senator every six years? What state do you live in, anyway?
March 28th, 2006 at 12:03 am#112 Until the 17 amendment Senators were appointed by the states to serve. After 1913 Senators became directly elected, but were still supposed to represent State interests, as opposed to general population interests. Senators represent states, Congressmen represent the general population, that was how the founders set it up. It was part of the original federalism inherent in the founding of the United States.
Anyways, goodnight, I look forward to anouther full day of Ryan insulting me tomorow.
March 28th, 2006 at 12:15 amSquegeeboo,
Just because it makes my skin crawl when I hear people talk about democracy vs republic:
A republic is a form of democracy -other types of democracy include: Constitutional monarchy (Spain, UK, etc.), and parliamentary democracy (Italy, Canada, India).
The US is a representative democracy aka republic:
Representative democracy is a political system where the people vote on government members, who are then expected to make decisions in accordance with the interests of their voters. It is called representative because the people do not vote on government decisions directly, but elect representatives to decide for them. This form of government has been increasingly common in recent times, and the number of representative democracies experienced such explosive growth during the 20th century that the majority of the world’s population now lives under representative democratic regimes (which are sometimes also referred to as “republics”).
Wikipedia: Democracy
The United States is a constitutional republic, with a government composed of and operating through a set of limited powers imposed by its design and enumerated in the United States Constitution. Specifically, the nation operates as a presidential democracy.
March 28th, 2006 at 12:46 amWikipedia: United States of America
Lora
#109 Thanks for the extra info on Japanese capital punishment, was unaware that their minors are under 20, not under 18
Comment by squegeeboo
To squegeeboo,
March 28th, 2006 at 2:45 amYou’re welcome. Because of the great number of orphans produced by WWII, the Japanese penal system has been very lenient towards juvenile deliquents. Until a few years ago, there weren’t even any set punishments for murderers under 16. The age for being sent to reformatories has since been lowered to 14, but that still doesn’t cover 12-year old killers.
Has anyone heard from SpudgeBoy today?
March 28th, 2006 at 2:51 amBush’s statements have all been consistent LIES! So in a way Scotty Boy is telling the truth about Dubya > he never stops lying about Iraq, so that is consistent > lol.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:31 amRyan
Those are the same memo extracts that every website/news source is using, where is the actual memo they came from? My point was why won’t the Gray Lady, or any other media outlet publish the memo if they have it.
March 28th, 2006 at 8:22 amAnother memo regarding Colin Powell’s admissions to Jack Straw is making the news as well.
March 28th, 2006 at 10:13 amSquegeeboo is absolutely right- the media is lying about these British memos. I cannot imagine Bush ever trying to concoct a reason to go to war with Iraq. After all, he told Helen Thomas just the other day that “no president wants to go to war.”
Bush is probably the most honest and decent president we have had in the last 30 years. If he says Saddam had WMDs, then I believe him, even though we have searched and searched and turned Iraq upside down looking for them and haven’t YET found them. I won’t be surprised if we finally find some WMDs over there in 10 or 20 years of continous occupation.
As for the allegation that Bush suggested we paint a U.S. warplane to look like a U.N. plane and then use the plane to draw fire from Iraqi batteries is just insane. We all know that Bush, given his many prodigous talents, doesn’t have the creativity to come up with an idea like that. That kind of creativity can only be a product of the liberal media in their attempt to make Bush look like a warmonger and liar.
So I say, let’s ignore these press reports. The media is just jealous of Bush’s popularity with the American people.
March 28th, 2006 at 10:35 amFreudian Slip?
Is it just a coincidence that the title of Bush’s radio speech on March 8, 2003 when he makes the assertion “We are doing everything we can to avoid war in Iraq.” is:
March 28th, 2006 at 1:20 pm“IRAQ: DENIAL AND DECEPTION“